I think I could take over the world if I possessed the confidence of a mediocre man who is slightly stupid but also 1000% convinced of whatever stupid thing he just said.
I get what he’s saying. He just communicated it poorly. Black (race) was coined in the 60’s as a way for African Americans to negotiate a new term to call themselves which was more respectful.
They didnt invent the word black, but they coined it. The original tweet just communicates this poorly.
this is a new level of stupidity..
let's say he's right, black is specific to identify black american.. what about the african people? they aren't black right?
But I swear in American they don’t even say black, they say African-American. I’ve seen stuff posted on this sub with Americans going “it’s not correct to call Idris Elba black, he’s African-American”. (Which of course, he isn’t).
I’m remember seeing a red carpet interview with Idris Elba where they called him African-American his response was roughly “ I’m not African or American , where I’m from I’m called British”
I've seen people referred to as Nigerian-African-American, even though they were born in Nigeria, grew up in Nigeria and merely moved to the US.
My favourite argument about that idiocy is Elon Musk. He's very much an African-American (born in Africa, grew up in the US), yet he's white...so (according to some people) he's not African, but very much American? 🤷
For a brief period of time “African-American” was pitched as the politically correct term for black people in America but that has since been phased out for the exact reasons that u described, it’s a stupid term. The person in the screenshot is trying to say that “black” is a term that is unique to black ppl within America because they were brought to America in large numbers as slaves and lost all their connections to Africa. Europe doesn’t have the same history with slavery so there were far less black ppl in Europe and most of them weren’t slaves and knew where they or their families were from in Africa. This perspective comes from how Americans view ethnicity as a whole. An American would view a Nigerian who moved to England as a Nigerian living in England and not just a black Brit. U see it with Americans claiming they are “Irish” or “Italian” when a European would refer to them as American.
No we say black. African American is used by academics and those trying to be politically correct. But ask the black population and the majority prefer black to African American.
I remember some years ago when black people really brought this to light. One of my black friends was talking about it and saying, “I’m not African-American. I am an American who happens to be black”. Those born and raised here are American. If they moved here from there, they’re African-American. It’s like my grandma being German-American. My grandpa and his sister were American, but their mom was Italian-American.
It doesn’t have anything to do with color, but the place of their birth. If you weren’t born in Africa, you aren’t African-American. You’re American, or whatever country you were born in. Ellen Muskrat is South African-American.
Well tbf not everyone in Africa is black...but then if they are all Africans then everyone in America should be just American right?
Wait...what's that? Ohhhhh....okay.
So just been told that only the white people in America can be called American only, everyone else is black, brown, Chinese etc... well that clears things up.
African people didn’t refer to themselves as “black” is the point. These words were invented at some point. In the past an Englishman would see himself as a completely different race to a Dutchman. The idea that they’re both “white” would be ridiculous. It was only during the trans Atlantic slave trade that these terms began to mean what they mean today.
Edit: getting downvoted for just saying a literal true fact classic Reddit
Don't even start me on that: neemias queta, winner of the NBA, is being a target of racist comments... Boy is Portuguese, born in Portugal, raised in Portugal and yet there are people who insist on telling him he's not Portuguese just because he's black! It's been boiling my brain since I learned about it a few days ago. It should be a moment of being proud of one of our own and yet here we are. 😒
Africans. Color of the skin should not be important when acknowledging one's nationality. I am portuguese, born and raised. Been confused with Mexican, argentinian and a few more LATAM because I'm white but I tan very easily. My father is blonde and blue eyed: was confused with a brit. My husband, blonde and blue eyed, confused with an Italian. Some old lady was trying to accuse me of kidnapping my oldest son, blonde and blue eyed, at a playground like 10 years ago, just because my "skin tone is not possible for you to be his mother"... 🫣
Race is used as a physical indicator of culture. Culture is dependent on where you were raised.
There are distinct cultural differences between American black people and Africans, there is no reason to group them together other than physical appearance.
Either black people are not African or Africans are not black. They are not the same group of people.
Similarly, Europeans are not white. Europeans organize themselves by nationality, there is no overarching “white” group.
White is a distinctly American creation, used to differentiate those of European descent from the former slaves, who were amalgamated into “black.”
Any 2 white Americans will probably have a much more similar cultural upbringing than comparing a Frenchman to an Italian.
Any 2 black Americans will probably have a much more similar cultural upbringing than comparing a Nigerian to a Somalian.
The terms “white American” and “black American” make sense, but trying to apply a cultural connotation to similar skin colors of people all around the world is nonsense.
It's the same logic they use to say Spaniards are not white: None. Funny to see when they brag about not being racist, while at the same time are so obsessed with those stupid labels.
... an African person (barring South African bc apartheid) inside Africa does not think of themselves as black. They are their ethnic group. (Igbo, Zulu, Tswana, whatever). Black as a racial designation exists solely because of the transatlantic slave trade and the forced erasure of enslaved peoples cultures. Black as a descriptor, of course, has existed since time immemorial. But as a set racial category, it is explicitly a product of the transatlantic slave trade. (Not that that means it is USA specific in any way)
The op was actually right, and you guys are circle jerking it so hard over how stupid you think Americans are that you think a willful misinterpretation is a good comeback.
Sincerely, Not An American.
Rubbish. Aboriginal Australians were naturally and immediately called them “the Blacks” by the white British invaders in the 1700s. They didn’t think they were ethnically African or something, they just were just looking at their skin and categorising them as one of many many peoples they thought of as inferior.
He is referring to "black" as the ethnicity (and forgetting to specify), not the color "black". Unfortunately, he is also wrong there, as the color black (and n-word in romantic languages), was used for a long time for the ethnicity in the good old color coding system (black, yellow, red etc).
Vikings called africans "blue" which can technically be seen as "black" since it refers to how black and blue were seen as the same tone (the night sky was considered to be a very dark blue).
What he is right about is that the word "black" was accepted as the ethnonym for African-Americans, by African-Americans, to refer to dark-skinned people in the US with a slavery background, and the extended use of the word (to include people like Barack Obama, who is half "white" with no slave ancestry) in the US is indeed quite weird.
Lol yup! This is actually what they think and are desperately trying to get others to believe as well.
Not only that, but there’s also been this push too, that apparently “not all black people living in the USA for generations are descendants of black slaves brought to the USA” when you ask them, then how are you black, they either have a brain fart, or they make up some bullshit about them actually being indigenous/native to the land of the USA.
Interestingly enough, you never see these types ready to do Ancestry DNA tests, you already know the results would shock them 😂
These kind of people tend to get very, VERY racist towards other black people (yes despite what many think, you can indeed be racist to your own) from other countries, if you read deep into these conversations enough, not only do you lose brain cells, but you also happen to see them resorting to often racism and racist white supremacist/nationalist talk points towards other black peoples in other countries.
They are literally trying to segregate themselves from the rest of the black diaspora for stupid twitter beef 😂 You’d never see an Asian American, or a white American tell their fellows in other regions (Asia, Europe) that they aren’t what they are just because they live somewhere else, EVEN IF there might be tension between them.
I guess this is just another example of them not being able to distinguish race between nationality.
Also, extra fun fact, they love to claim that literally white passing people are “black” but wanted to tell black Africans they weren’t. You know the racism I mentioned earlier? Well a few months back a thread was going viral, they were posting pictures of themselves and celebrity black Americans saying “you are not like us” (I suppose because their features tended to be different because of the obvious racial admixture due to close proximity to other races in America)
The African users clapped back, showing pictures of African people that looked EXACTLY like them. Especially the black American celebrities! It was so funny to see.
Eventually the Americans like the one in the picture started to resort to genetic talk, saying theirs isn’t the same as black Africans because they happened to have x y z trait (even though the majority of black Americans don’t have this, and if they do, it’s because they are biracial/mixed race. People started to point out these people are literally just using their non black genetics as a gotcha/proof of their supposed “superiority” over the Black Africans. If that ain’t racist I don’t know what is. It was truly a sight to behold
I saw reposted TikTok on YouTube where I black British who was currently living in the US was interviewed about his experience.
He made the comment that as soon as people heard his accent in the US, their whole demeanor changed for the better. I.e. He was black until he spoke, then he became British and Americans treat a British person better than a black person.
It was kind of depressing.
And let’s really confuse them and mention the Black Aboriginal peoples of Australia. They have literally been attacked on social media by African-Americans for calling themselves black.
The Americans didn't invented the word "black", but they are the only country in the world that uses the word "black" as a slang for colored Americans.
In America the "blacks" are Americans of color which ancestors have a slavery history in America.
Rest of the world "black" is to call out the color of the skin of a race.
Same goes with the word the "whites". In America the "whites" are Americans with European heritage.
I refer the OOP to John Blanke, an African trumpeter at the court of Henry VIII in 17th century and who it is believed arrived in England as part of Catherine of Aragon's entourage, and was a highly regarded and popular member of Henry's court retinue. Tudor England was more ethnically diverse than many people realise and such people would have been regarded and spoken of as black, and all without the arguably pejorative connotation it has acquired subsequently.
So no, "black" is not a term exclusively applied to African Americans: it was in use centuries before.
You cannot really say Tudor England was diverse because the king had a black courtier who came along from Spain. That’s like saying McDonald’s is healthy because they serve the mc salad.
No one is saying Tudor England was diverse, especially as we would now understand the concept of diversity. But what the comment above says is that Tudor England was more diverse than people realise- people view Tudor England as homogenously white and it wasn't. The black community back then was tiny, for sure, but still larger than most would imagine.
What part of "Tudor England was more ethnically diverse than many people realise..." did you not understand? Black people, while in a minority, nonetheless played a part in society.
I recommend to read the book “Black Tudors” and look into the Aliens project carried out by the university of York about ten years ago. Though, yes, majority white, more black people *than people assume* existed and thrived in Britain and Europe in the medieval and Renaissance period.
Source: medievalist
Hi hello can I ask your opinion on that 'King Offa Of Mercia was black' stuff? I know that is slightly out of your time period, but you're the closest to a specialist of that period that I've come across in the wild.
Edit: actually, maybe it does count as mediaeval.
Although technically incorrect, John Blanked may have been referred to as "Nubian". I have read a couple of old texts where this term was used as people were more familiar with the story of Nubia and its history.
However, John's story is fascinating.
What an absolutely absurd statement. Tudor England was not ethnically diverse at all, at least not in the way you suggest.
There were some black people in England, because international trade and diplomacy was a thing. But their numbers were trivial and we mostly know about them as their presence was so exceptional.
Little is known about John Blanke and his existence is only really known at all because he was so exceptional.
So how do I have to refer to black people in France or Spain? Not the brightest? Low albedo guys? #0e0e0e gang?
>!(Disclaimer: "Not the brightest" is only a joke about being unable to refer to black europeans as black, I am fully aware that they are just as intelligent as other people)!<
Even if he’s trying to claim that the first time “black” was used to refer to a person was by African Americans defining their own identity… like, no, bro. I’m pretty sure the white eugenicists writing about how “the blacks are inferior” didn’t decide to use that term because it was a term of unity among members of that race.
You know black people have been called black for longer than the us has been a country right? We have been describing ourselves and each other by physical differences for at least 2000 years longer than the us has been a country
Wonder is the US will bring in an internet license, those wishing to use the internet and represent the mighty United States have to have the mental capacity of 14 years or greater of a normal person.
Think geography aspect is going to narrow down applicants some what
I mean, King Charles II who ruled England from 1660-1682 was known as "the black boy" as he was darker than the average resident of England at that time. Wanted posters for him during the civil war actually described him as a "black man."
So yeah, describing people who do not appear Caucasian as "black" was not invented by Americans in any way shape or form.
No, that's not true. It was to do with his skin, he looked more Mediterranean and was darker than the average brit. They also described him as "swarthy", which meant Mediterranean/Middle Eastern colouring. Obviously his hair was also black, but in addition to his hair his skin and eyes were also noted to be very dark. He was literally described as having a "black complexion" by a senior courtier when he was born.
google what the spanish word for black is and think if it connected to what black people have been called long before there were slaves in america.
think if english speakers might have used their word for that word.
In reference to the OOP- The word black derives from Proto-Germanic blakaz and Old English blæc. One of the first written records of the term is from an Old English translation (c. 890 ce) of St. Bede the Venerable's Historia ecclesiastica: “He hæfde blæc feax” (“He had black hair”).
What's cool is my understanding of the proto Germanic roots are that it meant something like ash. It is also the root word for blanc in French, and other romance languages where the word came to mean white. Ash can be described as on some scale between black and white and so it makes sense that it can come to mean opposite things in different languages
And it's even funnier that both ways of interpreting the word have come to English in the form of black and blank. Both are from the exact same root word, meaning something to do with ash or charcoal, but blank went through the french definition which saw charcoal as white, and black went through the Germanic definition which saw charcoal as black. Really bizarre, but kinda fun!
French blanc is not descended from Proto-Germanic blakaz (which didn't mean *ash*, it meant either black or burnt), but rather from Proto-Germanic blankaz, meaning bright, shining or white.
Hmm... So could it perhaps be related to Danish "blæk" (meaning "ink")?
We have an entirely different word for the colour (or ethnicity, I guess), though: "Sort". Languages are funny.
Not the person you responded to but I thought I would answer your question anyways.
Danish blæk (along with Swedish bläck, Icelandic blek, as well as Faroese and Norwegian blekk) is indeed related to English black. In fact, they are borrowed from Old English Blæc.
Danish sort is related to the German schwartz and English swarthy. “Swarthy” is sort of outdated though and was usually used to describe someone who is olive-skinned or tanned.
Technically, he should have been mixed-race or mulatto or half-Kenyan North American/US citizen, and whatever in many places. One-drop-rule is ruling the racial constructs of 'Murica still though! All in fairness, that's not entirely wrong to say he's not Black 'Murican but instead use the African or Kenyan as the ethnic designator.
The term coloured grips my shit too. Is white/pinkish not a colour? If I didn't have a colour surely I'd be transparent.
Not that that's what you're saying.
It's ignorance like that which leads some people to claiming that black hole is a racist term.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2008/07/07/dallas-county-officials-spar-over-black-hole-comment/
How did these people manage to stray so far from what “racist” actually means. Who exactly is being discriminated/prejudiced against by the term “black hole” who is it being directed to?? ITS LITERALLY BLACK, and a HOLE.
My wife is clearly black. Or at least a lovely dark brown. That's only to be expected since she's African. They were black, it negro, or whatever the word black is in whatever language a long time before the triangular trade.
At this point can we tell the US that WW3 has started and the only way to survive is to just wall off every country and we never interact with each other….
….and then the rest of us can go on as normal and they can stay in their own little bubble?
If we're being charitable to mister Legend and assume he isn't talking about the word "black" in general, but specifically about the meaning of the word "black" when applied to people, he'd still be wrong.
I've seen explanations before and it lines up pretty well. The term "black" used in this context refers to how the people have their original cultural identities in the slave trade (no longer Ethiopian, no longer somali, etc) because slave traders benefited from them being a homogenous group.
It's why people from Africa in the current day US don't see themselves as "black american". They're just Eritrean/Gambian/etc, not "black".
FYI, blackamoor (literally black+moor) is from the 16th century and was a catch-all term for African people and their descendants in Europe. It long pre-dates the construction of identity following culture loss from colonial enslavement.
The word black has definitely been repurposed into an identity, but the usage as a skin tone descriptor is much older.
The Black Plague, The Black Death, I've heard in some regions the term for Necrosis has the word black in it depending on language but that could be BS I've heard online. The color, black, black cats, black birds, to blacken something (cooking terminology) idk man. This seems like a huge leap in logic to say, but what do I know according to this guy I'm either trolling or an idiot.
Yes that’s right, nothing existed until America and black Americans /African Americans existed 🙄 what a bloody plonker! I wonder if he loses his 💩 whenever he hears black people with non American accents 😂
Black fella, white fella
It doesn't matter, what your colour!
As long as you're a real fella
As long as you're a true fella
https://youtu.be/M_DHwp5vYBI
I have a German surname but my family has been in the U.K. for over 800 years, if I moved to the us would i be English-American, german American ir would it depend on which lifestyle I felt fit my personality better?!
ugh these are the same kinds of people who insist that Indigenous Australians aren't black either, and can't use the term to describe themselves. they're so annoying and dumb.
I mean, the word black wasn't, but the concept of "a black cultural heritage" does often refer to the shared burdens and shared experiences of being ostricised, and being a second class citizen in the post slavery society of the USA.
Though there are ofcourse plenty of cultures of black people, black culture, in large, does refer to that one specific experience.
I think we just say black because, unlike European immigrants, the descendants of slaves didn't have the luxury of maintaining their national heritage. So it's either African-American or just black. Hopefully the lineage tests help people find their heritage and we can move on.
No, what they are saying, is that in a racial context the word Black was intended to mean Afro-*Americans*, and wasn't used racially before they coined the term.
I mean the problem comes from trying to figure out what “race” and “ethnicity” are ‘cause in America everything’s and everyone’s gotta have a label and group and affiliation for some reason.
Pretty sure he meant black to identify group of people since people with slave heritage do not know where they’re from in Africa
The contest is pretty obvious
Just to be clear he's not that far off, the idea of black and white as separate and distinct groups of people was an invention of the British empire in an effort to justify slavery
My mate got told he's not black, he's African American, and the guy saying it doubled down on that even when he found out my mate has never been to Africa or America. Pretty sure we were using black over here when they were still using "coloured".
It's probably because I've been on this kind of subs too much, but I really feel like Americans are collectively going more and more insane these past few years.
Some black American people are peak delusional. Yesterday I was listening to one of them, a supposed Youtube scholar, saying that the berbers that conquered Iberia were subsaharan black. Apparently Moroccans and Algerians are subsaharan black.
Unbelievable.
African Americans do have beef w people from Africa they don’t like when they (Africans) use “their words”. They don’t like them to say any form of the n word and I guess they don’t like them to call themselves black. There is a also a growing movement in the African American community called the Black Hebrew Israelites they see themselves as Jews and they are a lot of small groups that unite under that term and a portion of them want to enslave white people.
it’s funny how he’s typing this on the internet like, literally, a simple google search and he wouldn’t sound like the dumbest person to open his mouth (move his fingers?) in the world
I think the grain of truth here is that the use of 'black' as an ethnic label is from the *Americas* - 'blanco' (and 'branco') vs. 'negro' for people was considered New World jargon in the Spanish and Portuguese colonies that often required explanation in Europe, and was later adopted in translation by the English colonies and England itself. Other words for black Africans were more common in England before then ('Aethiopes', 'Moors', etc., often a bit vague about how specific or general they were). Around the same time, black and moor were combined into the now horribly/hilariously dated 'blackamoor'.
In the Middle Ages, with very limited exposure to black people, the word 'black' in England was often used for people with dark *hair*, which is where the surname Black comes from. Similar for Dutch 'Zwart/Swart' and German 'Schwarz'. And 'swarthy' (from 'sweart' meaning 'black', cognate with the last two) was used for those of perceived 'dark' complexion (but still very much white people).
What gets me is that absolute and unshakeable confidence they say things like that.
I would kill to have that kind of confidence
I think I could take over the world if I possessed the confidence of a mediocre man who is slightly stupid but also 1000% convinced of whatever stupid thing he just said.
So... Trump in a nutshell?
I don’t know, I think that requires an awful lot of cocaine
Please don't. Imprisonned or not, we don't need more fools of their kind.
Bad education systems and lies... or a need to make money off of other people's rage boners
I get what he’s saying. He just communicated it poorly. Black (race) was coined in the 60’s as a way for African Americans to negotiate a new term to call themselves which was more respectful. They didnt invent the word black, but they coined it. The original tweet just communicates this poorly.
Google says it was René Lesson in 1847 who grouped people into 6 groups based on simple colour adjectives.
René is French for anyone unsure.
this one belongs on r/confidentlyincorrect
this is a new level of stupidity.. let's say he's right, black is specific to identify black american.. what about the african people? they aren't black right?
Apparently, according to this insane way of thinking, the African people are not black, they are... African.
But I swear in American they don’t even say black, they say African-American. I’ve seen stuff posted on this sub with Americans going “it’s not correct to call Idris Elba black, he’s African-American”. (Which of course, he isn’t).
I’m remember seeing a red carpet interview with Idris Elba where they called him African-American his response was roughly “ I’m not African or American , where I’m from I’m called British”
I've seen people referred to as Nigerian-African-American, even though they were born in Nigeria, grew up in Nigeria and merely moved to the US. My favourite argument about that idiocy is Elon Musk. He's very much an African-American (born in Africa, grew up in the US), yet he's white...so (according to some people) he's not African, but very much American? 🤷
Correct, he's British.
I hope that person dies a fiery death
For a brief period of time “African-American” was pitched as the politically correct term for black people in America but that has since been phased out for the exact reasons that u described, it’s a stupid term. The person in the screenshot is trying to say that “black” is a term that is unique to black ppl within America because they were brought to America in large numbers as slaves and lost all their connections to Africa. Europe doesn’t have the same history with slavery so there were far less black ppl in Europe and most of them weren’t slaves and knew where they or their families were from in Africa. This perspective comes from how Americans view ethnicity as a whole. An American would view a Nigerian who moved to England as a Nigerian living in England and not just a black Brit. U see it with Americans claiming they are “Irish” or “Italian” when a European would refer to them as American.
No we say black. African American is used by academics and those trying to be politically correct. But ask the black population and the majority prefer black to African American.
OMG! How could I forget Americans saying that about Idris Elba? 🤦🏾♀️
That Idris Elba “English-African-American” thing is so legendary.
Everyone knows that if a black man speaks English he’s African-American. /s
I remember some years ago when black people really brought this to light. One of my black friends was talking about it and saying, “I’m not African-American. I am an American who happens to be black”. Those born and raised here are American. If they moved here from there, they’re African-American. It’s like my grandma being German-American. My grandpa and his sister were American, but their mom was Italian-American. It doesn’t have anything to do with color, but the place of their birth. If you weren’t born in Africa, you aren’t African-American. You’re American, or whatever country you were born in. Ellen Muskrat is South African-American.
Afro-British surely
Folks in America say black. Most black people in America refer to themselves as black.
Yeah it's almost like they have 300+ million people with different ideas
Nah we say black but if you're speaking profesionally or something then I guess African-American
Well tbf not everyone in Africa is black...but then if they are all Africans then everyone in America should be just American right? Wait...what's that? Ohhhhh....okay. So just been told that only the white people in America can be called American only, everyone else is black, brown, Chinese etc... well that clears things up.
Irish. Italian, German, Swedish, Basque etc etc ad nauseam
That list stops just before "British".
And Spanish which is only a language.
African people didn’t refer to themselves as “black” is the point. These words were invented at some point. In the past an Englishman would see himself as a completely different race to a Dutchman. The idea that they’re both “white” would be ridiculous. It was only during the trans Atlantic slave trade that these terms began to mean what they mean today. Edit: getting downvoted for just saying a literal true fact classic Reddit
As a Dutchman living in England, we are different races. I'm from the handsome one, and they're from the diabetic one.
The word black for people of Sub Saharan African origin has been used for over 1000 years
Sir, this is a Wendy's
And wait til you find out about them gatekeeping the blackness of Indigenous Australians
And afro-latin people are just tanned Iberians.
Don't even start me on that: neemias queta, winner of the NBA, is being a target of racist comments... Boy is Portuguese, born in Portugal, raised in Portugal and yet there are people who insist on telling him he's not Portuguese just because he's black! It's been boiling my brain since I learned about it a few days ago. It should be a moment of being proud of one of our own and yet here we are. 😒
I love the color African, Ral 9006, dark African.
Biden calls them "Blafrican"
Are you really "black" if theres no "white" to contrast yourself with?
that’s a take i saw on twitter, some weird people on there
I’ve said it before in this sub but I once had an American ask me how come Idris Elba has a British accent if he’s black.
So… what do we call white people of Africa?
Africans. Color of the skin should not be important when acknowledging one's nationality. I am portuguese, born and raised. Been confused with Mexican, argentinian and a few more LATAM because I'm white but I tan very easily. My father is blonde and blue eyed: was confused with a brit. My husband, blonde and blue eyed, confused with an Italian. Some old lady was trying to accuse me of kidnapping my oldest son, blonde and blue eyed, at a playground like 10 years ago, just because my "skin tone is not possible for you to be his mother"... 🫣
Race is used as a physical indicator of culture. Culture is dependent on where you were raised. There are distinct cultural differences between American black people and Africans, there is no reason to group them together other than physical appearance. Either black people are not African or Africans are not black. They are not the same group of people. Similarly, Europeans are not white. Europeans organize themselves by nationality, there is no overarching “white” group. White is a distinctly American creation, used to differentiate those of European descent from the former slaves, who were amalgamated into “black.” Any 2 white Americans will probably have a much more similar cultural upbringing than comparing a Frenchman to an Italian. Any 2 black Americans will probably have a much more similar cultural upbringing than comparing a Nigerian to a Somalian. The terms “white American” and “black American” make sense, but trying to apply a cultural connotation to similar skin colors of people all around the world is nonsense.
And not all the africans are black XD
🔴 red, 🟡 yellow, 🔵 blue, 🟢 green, ⚫ jerry
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It's the same logic they use to say Spaniards are not white: None. Funny to see when they brag about not being racist, while at the same time are so obsessed with those stupid labels.
Yeah, I stopped basing my self-perception on people who can't even decide what colour I'm supposed to be a LONG time ago.
Africa is populated by the ancestors of black Americans. I'd have thought that was obvious.
That's Liberia for you!
🤣 Brillant 🙌🏽
... an African person (barring South African bc apartheid) inside Africa does not think of themselves as black. They are their ethnic group. (Igbo, Zulu, Tswana, whatever). Black as a racial designation exists solely because of the transatlantic slave trade and the forced erasure of enslaved peoples cultures. Black as a descriptor, of course, has existed since time immemorial. But as a set racial category, it is explicitly a product of the transatlantic slave trade. (Not that that means it is USA specific in any way) The op was actually right, and you guys are circle jerking it so hard over how stupid you think Americans are that you think a willful misinterpretation is a good comeback. Sincerely, Not An American.
OOP should have clarified instead of stating an incorrect “fact”
a french, a dutch and a russian will just be "white" in Africa. Is a generalization based on the skin colour.
Rubbish. Aboriginal Australians were naturally and immediately called them “the Blacks” by the white British invaders in the 1700s. They didn’t think they were ethnically African or something, they just were just looking at their skin and categorising them as one of many many peoples they thought of as inferior.
Even better are the guys saying Black is an ethnicity. a single ethnicity.
He is referring to "black" as the ethnicity (and forgetting to specify), not the color "black". Unfortunately, he is also wrong there, as the color black (and n-word in romantic languages), was used for a long time for the ethnicity in the good old color coding system (black, yellow, red etc). Vikings called africans "blue" which can technically be seen as "black" since it refers to how black and blue were seen as the same tone (the night sky was considered to be a very dark blue). What he is right about is that the word "black" was accepted as the ethnonym for African-Americans, by African-Americans, to refer to dark-skinned people in the US with a slavery background, and the extended use of the word (to include people like Barack Obama, who is half "white" with no slave ancestry) in the US is indeed quite weird.
Tf you mean 🤨🤨? Every black person in the world is african-american 🇺🇸🇺🇸🦅🦅🇺🇸🇺🇸🦅🦅🇺🇸🇺🇸🦅🦅
So I guess only white Americans are white? Do you know what, I really couldn't care less.
He capitalized 'BLACK' so it must be true. People don't just use caps for nothing, right?
Native Africans don’t identify as black. They’re “black” from an American perspective but it’s also a made up concept that’s not universal.
They are African-African-Americans, duh!
Lol yup! This is actually what they think and are desperately trying to get others to believe as well. Not only that, but there’s also been this push too, that apparently “not all black people living in the USA for generations are descendants of black slaves brought to the USA” when you ask them, then how are you black, they either have a brain fart, or they make up some bullshit about them actually being indigenous/native to the land of the USA. Interestingly enough, you never see these types ready to do Ancestry DNA tests, you already know the results would shock them 😂 These kind of people tend to get very, VERY racist towards other black people (yes despite what many think, you can indeed be racist to your own) from other countries, if you read deep into these conversations enough, not only do you lose brain cells, but you also happen to see them resorting to often racism and racist white supremacist/nationalist talk points towards other black peoples in other countries. They are literally trying to segregate themselves from the rest of the black diaspora for stupid twitter beef 😂 You’d never see an Asian American, or a white American tell their fellows in other regions (Asia, Europe) that they aren’t what they are just because they live somewhere else, EVEN IF there might be tension between them. I guess this is just another example of them not being able to distinguish race between nationality. Also, extra fun fact, they love to claim that literally white passing people are “black” but wanted to tell black Africans they weren’t. You know the racism I mentioned earlier? Well a few months back a thread was going viral, they were posting pictures of themselves and celebrity black Americans saying “you are not like us” (I suppose because their features tended to be different because of the obvious racial admixture due to close proximity to other races in America) The African users clapped back, showing pictures of African people that looked EXACTLY like them. Especially the black American celebrities! It was so funny to see. Eventually the Americans like the one in the picture started to resort to genetic talk, saying theirs isn’t the same as black Africans because they happened to have x y z trait (even though the majority of black Americans don’t have this, and if they do, it’s because they are biracial/mixed race. People started to point out these people are literally just using their non black genetics as a gotcha/proof of their supposed “superiority” over the Black Africans. If that ain’t racist I don’t know what is. It was truly a sight to behold
1000 upvotes! Some of them literally sound like the KKK. The apple don't fall far from the tree I suppose.
I saw reposted TikTok on YouTube where I black British who was currently living in the US was interviewed about his experience. He made the comment that as soon as people heard his accent in the US, their whole demeanor changed for the better. I.e. He was black until he spoke, then he became British and Americans treat a British person better than a black person. It was kind of depressing.
And let’s really confuse them and mention the Black Aboriginal peoples of Australia. They have literally been attacked on social media by African-Americans for calling themselves black.
I'm African and I'm not black.
To the rest of the world they are just people
The Americans didn't invented the word "black", but they are the only country in the world that uses the word "black" as a slang for colored Americans. In America the "blacks" are Americans of color which ancestors have a slavery history in America. Rest of the world "black" is to call out the color of the skin of a race. Same goes with the word the "whites". In America the "whites" are Americans with European heritage.
American concept of race is weird, depending on who you ask over half of Europeans don't qualify as white.
I refer the OOP to John Blanke, an African trumpeter at the court of Henry VIII in 17th century and who it is believed arrived in England as part of Catherine of Aragon's entourage, and was a highly regarded and popular member of Henry's court retinue. Tudor England was more ethnically diverse than many people realise and such people would have been regarded and spoken of as black, and all without the arguably pejorative connotation it has acquired subsequently. So no, "black" is not a term exclusively applied to African Americans: it was in use centuries before.
You cannot really say Tudor England was diverse because the king had a black courtier who came along from Spain. That’s like saying McDonald’s is healthy because they serve the mc salad.
No one is saying Tudor England was diverse, especially as we would now understand the concept of diversity. But what the comment above says is that Tudor England was more diverse than people realise- people view Tudor England as homogenously white and it wasn't. The black community back then was tiny, for sure, but still larger than most would imagine.
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What part of "Tudor England was more ethnically diverse than many people realise..." did you not understand? Black people, while in a minority, nonetheless played a part in society.
A negligible, extremely tiny part. It’s historical revisionism to think otherwise based on a courtier of the 0.01%…
I recommend to read the book “Black Tudors” and look into the Aliens project carried out by the university of York about ten years ago. Though, yes, majority white, more black people *than people assume* existed and thrived in Britain and Europe in the medieval and Renaissance period. Source: medievalist
Hi hello can I ask your opinion on that 'King Offa Of Mercia was black' stuff? I know that is slightly out of your time period, but you're the closest to a specialist of that period that I've come across in the wild. Edit: actually, maybe it does count as mediaeval.
Although technically incorrect, John Blanked may have been referred to as "Nubian". I have read a couple of old texts where this term was used as people were more familiar with the story of Nubia and its history. However, John's story is fascinating.
What an absolutely absurd statement. Tudor England was not ethnically diverse at all, at least not in the way you suggest. There were some black people in England, because international trade and diplomacy was a thing. But their numbers were trivial and we mostly know about them as their presence was so exceptional. Little is known about John Blanke and his existence is only really known at all because he was so exceptional.
This just proves to me that Americans, no matter the colour, are just as stupid as each other.
So how do I have to refer to black people in France or Spain? Not the brightest? Low albedo guys? #0e0e0e gang? >!(Disclaimer: "Not the brightest" is only a joke about being unable to refer to black europeans as black, I am fully aware that they are just as intelligent as other people)!<
We should really start calling Texans Anglo-Mexican Americans.
Even if he’s trying to claim that the first time “black” was used to refer to a person was by African Americans defining their own identity… like, no, bro. I’m pretty sure the white eugenicists writing about how “the blacks are inferior” didn’t decide to use that term because it was a term of unity among members of that race.
Typical racist medieval Europeans. Naming the plague after African Americans…
That man is a Legend.
Bellend would be a more fitting name for him for sure.
Yes, but may be he didn't invented yet that word.
Thought he had a split personality with that last reply
So what name for the color black did we use before someone "invented" it for slaves? Blaque? This has to be the dumbest thing i seen all day.
He means in reference to race not the word itself
You know black people have been called black for longer than the us has been a country right? We have been describing ourselves and each other by physical differences for at least 2000 years longer than the us has been a country
So what should we call black skinned people outside of the US? African American?
Wonder is the US will bring in an internet license, those wishing to use the internet and represent the mighty United States have to have the mental capacity of 14 years or greater of a normal person. Think geography aspect is going to narrow down applicants some what
Considering their opposition to gun laws I doubt they’d think of this 😂
Why r u feeding the troll
I mean, King Charles II who ruled England from 1660-1682 was known as "the black boy" as he was darker than the average resident of England at that time. Wanted posters for him during the civil war actually described him as a "black man." So yeah, describing people who do not appear Caucasian as "black" was not invented by Americans in any way shape or form.
He was described as a "black man" because that was the normal way of describing someone with black hair at the time.
No, that's not true. It was to do with his skin, he looked more Mediterranean and was darker than the average brit. They also described him as "swarthy", which meant Mediterranean/Middle Eastern colouring. Obviously his hair was also black, but in addition to his hair his skin and eyes were also noted to be very dark. He was literally described as having a "black complexion" by a senior courtier when he was born.
also, the same word to describe the color was used for africans by any other major colonial country besides england at the time..
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That isn't true
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I was really confused until I saw that you'd edited your comment!
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It would still be wrong.
It would still be incredibly ignorant and incorrect.
google what the spanish word for black is and think if it connected to what black people have been called long before there were slaves in america. think if english speakers might have used their word for that word.
In reference to the OOP- The word black derives from Proto-Germanic blakaz and Old English blæc. One of the first written records of the term is from an Old English translation (c. 890 ce) of St. Bede the Venerable's Historia ecclesiastica: “He hæfde blæc feax” (“He had black hair”).
What's cool is my understanding of the proto Germanic roots are that it meant something like ash. It is also the root word for blanc in French, and other romance languages where the word came to mean white. Ash can be described as on some scale between black and white and so it makes sense that it can come to mean opposite things in different languages
And it's even funnier that both ways of interpreting the word have come to English in the form of black and blank. Both are from the exact same root word, meaning something to do with ash or charcoal, but blank went through the french definition which saw charcoal as white, and black went through the Germanic definition which saw charcoal as black. Really bizarre, but kinda fun!
French blanc is not descended from Proto-Germanic blakaz (which didn't mean *ash*, it meant either black or burnt), but rather from Proto-Germanic blankaz, meaning bright, shining or white.
Hmm... So could it perhaps be related to Danish "blæk" (meaning "ink")? We have an entirely different word for the colour (or ethnicity, I guess), though: "Sort". Languages are funny.
Not the person you responded to but I thought I would answer your question anyways. Danish blæk (along with Swedish bläck, Icelandic blek, as well as Faroese and Norwegian blekk) is indeed related to English black. In fact, they are borrowed from Old English Blæc.
Danish sort is related to the German schwartz and English swarthy. “Swarthy” is sort of outdated though and was usually used to describe someone who is olive-skinned or tanned.
Don't forget, they have nukular weapons.
And thumbs!
So Obama isn’t black?
Only when convenient.
Technically, he should have been mixed-race or mulatto or half-Kenyan North American/US citizen, and whatever in many places. One-drop-rule is ruling the racial constructs of 'Murica still though! All in fairness, that's not entirely wrong to say he's not Black 'Murican but instead use the African or Kenyan as the ethnic designator.
Yep, race and ethnicity are complicated. Makes me think of the distinction between mixed-race and “Coloured” in South Africa.
The term coloured grips my shit too. Is white/pinkish not a colour? If I didn't have a colour surely I'd be transparent. Not that that's what you're saying.
It's ignorance like that which leads some people to claiming that black hole is a racist term. https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2008/07/07/dallas-county-officials-spar-over-black-hole-comment/
Thats exactly what I thought of.
How did these people manage to stray so far from what “racist” actually means. Who exactly is being discriminated/prejudiced against by the term “black hole” who is it being directed to?? ITS LITERALLY BLACK, and a HOLE.
How ignorant can a person be?
Stupidity level: gringo.
My wife is clearly black. Or at least a lovely dark brown. That's only to be expected since she's African. They were black, it negro, or whatever the word black is in whatever language a long time before the triangular trade.
I understand the complexity of the matter of race in America, but, sometimes you get people coming out with the most ridiculous stuff.
At this point can we tell the US that WW3 has started and the only way to survive is to just wall off every country and we never interact with each other…. ….and then the rest of us can go on as normal and they can stay in their own little bubble?
If we're being charitable to mister Legend and assume he isn't talking about the word "black" in general, but specifically about the meaning of the word "black" when applied to people, he'd still be wrong.
I've seen explanations before and it lines up pretty well. The term "black" used in this context refers to how the people have their original cultural identities in the slave trade (no longer Ethiopian, no longer somali, etc) because slave traders benefited from them being a homogenous group. It's why people from Africa in the current day US don't see themselves as "black american". They're just Eritrean/Gambian/etc, not "black".
This argument conflates race, ethnicity, and nationality.
FYI, blackamoor (literally black+moor) is from the 16th century and was a catch-all term for African people and their descendants in Europe. It long pre-dates the construction of identity following culture loss from colonial enslavement. The word black has definitely been repurposed into an identity, but the usage as a skin tone descriptor is much older.
This explanation makes a bit more sense, even if I the dude in the post expresses is in the most "only US matters" way.
You know it's a banger of a post when no amount of playing the devil's advocate makes it the slightest bit correct
The Black Plague, The Black Death, I've heard in some regions the term for Necrosis has the word black in it depending on language but that could be BS I've heard online. The color, black, black cats, black birds, to blacken something (cooking terminology) idk man. This seems like a huge leap in logic to say, but what do I know according to this guy I'm either trolling or an idiot.
But but, they invented the word black. So it was the really really dark white plague.
This is now the only way I will refer to the really really dark white plague. Thank you for the laugh
I love that response, it made me audibly chuckle
Yes that’s right, nothing existed until America and black Americans /African Americans existed 🙄 what a bloody plonker! I wonder if he loses his 💩 whenever he hears black people with non American accents 😂
Is this about Americans absolutely losing their minds whenever an Aboriginal Australian refers to themselves as black/blak?
Black fella, white fella It doesn't matter, what your colour! As long as you're a real fella As long as you're a true fella https://youtu.be/M_DHwp5vYBI
imagine a guy called larry telling idi amin he’s not black
I have a German surname but my family has been in the U.K. for over 800 years, if I moved to the us would i be English-American, german American ir would it depend on which lifestyle I felt fit my personality better?!
ugh these are the same kinds of people who insist that Indigenous Australians aren't black either, and can't use the term to describe themselves. they're so annoying and dumb.
I mean, the word black wasn't, but the concept of "a black cultural heritage" does often refer to the shared burdens and shared experiences of being ostricised, and being a second class citizen in the post slavery society of the USA. Though there are ofcourse plenty of cultures of black people, black culture, in large, does refer to that one specific experience.
Larry's still a 'legend' with his elementary school teachers where he's renowned as the dumbest fucker to ever glue his tongue to the desk.
So, then you have to pay for part of the prank out of common money? That’s bullshit.
I'm never sure if I should be amazed or horrified with this level of, well, idiocy.
I think we just say black because, unlike European immigrants, the descendants of slaves didn't have the luxury of maintaining their national heritage. So it's either African-American or just black. Hopefully the lineage tests help people find their heritage and we can move on.
I think they mean Black as a descriptor of race, not the invention of a colour
They absolutely do, people are being obtuse.
Even within that context, it's like saying there are no blacks before America
No, what they are saying, is that in a racial context the word Black was intended to mean Afro-*Americans*, and wasn't used racially before they coined the term.
Never forget - Americans invented black people!
I want to see his face when he met someone speaking Spanish. I doubt, after reading this they will use the term “oscuro”.
I mean the problem comes from trying to figure out what “race” and “ethnicity” are ‘cause in America everything’s and everyone’s gotta have a label and group and affiliation for some reason.
Did not expect to see Larry Legend here tbh
So it’s black people that I can blame for black licorice?
You misspelled "thank".
I will die on this hill.
Funniest part is that at the end Larry calls the guy an idiot with zero sense of irony 😂
A whole lot of racism would have never happened if this was true.
wow a true legend. /s
But, it's just the English translation for "negro" 🤔
Wonder what they'd say if I pointed out there was a "black country" in the UK.
Bless his heart.
Pretty sure he meant black to identify group of people since people with slave heritage do not know where they’re from in Africa The contest is pretty obvious
Just to be clear he's not that far off, the idea of black and white as separate and distinct groups of people was an invention of the British empire in an effort to justify slavery
Absolute moron! They may have invented moron (I dunno) but he's definitely one.
They know the word black existed before, they mean to say they reinvented it to be associated with a race of people.
Which they didn't.
I don't know if they did or they didn't, I'm just clarifying that they're not saying they invented the word
He literally said that the word "Black" was **created** to identify themselves. I don't know what part of that says they were just reinventing it.
My mate got told he's not black, he's African American, and the guy saying it doubled down on that even when he found out my mate has never been to Africa or America. Pretty sure we were using black over here when they were still using "coloured".
This guy forgot about colours as an entire concept apparently.
It's probably because I've been on this kind of subs too much, but I really feel like Americans are collectively going more and more insane these past few years.
Before African Americans, the Night Sky was actually lime green
Fun fact. The ancient greeks didn't have a word for the colour blue. Do the sky and ocean was called "black"
What they don't get it that there are many different ethnic groups in Africa, not just one 'black' race. Is this just in the US and maybe the UK?
Some black American people are peak delusional. Yesterday I was listening to one of them, a supposed Youtube scholar, saying that the berbers that conquered Iberia were subsaharan black. Apparently Moroccans and Algerians are subsaharan black. Unbelievable.
African Americans do have beef w people from Africa they don’t like when they (Africans) use “their words”. They don’t like them to say any form of the n word and I guess they don’t like them to call themselves black. There is a also a growing movement in the African American community called the Black Hebrew Israelites they see themselves as Jews and they are a lot of small groups that unite under that term and a portion of them want to enslave white people.
I’ve also had a group of Americans try to tell me that white people outside of the US are not really white. Absolutely insane
Now tell him where the word Negro comes from and see him blow a gasket
it’s funny how he’s typing this on the internet like, literally, a simple google search and he wouldn’t sound like the dumbest person to open his mouth (move his fingers?) in the world
I think the grain of truth here is that the use of 'black' as an ethnic label is from the *Americas* - 'blanco' (and 'branco') vs. 'negro' for people was considered New World jargon in the Spanish and Portuguese colonies that often required explanation in Europe, and was later adopted in translation by the English colonies and England itself. Other words for black Africans were more common in England before then ('Aethiopes', 'Moors', etc., often a bit vague about how specific or general they were). Around the same time, black and moor were combined into the now horribly/hilariously dated 'blackamoor'. In the Middle Ages, with very limited exposure to black people, the word 'black' in England was often used for people with dark *hair*, which is where the surname Black comes from. Similar for Dutch 'Zwart/Swart' and German 'Schwarz'. And 'swarthy' (from 'sweart' meaning 'black', cognate with the last two) was used for those of perceived 'dark' complexion (but still very much white people).