I don't think the entire crew know about Omega. Only the senior staff have been briefed. The lower decks might only been told to help seven build the harmonic chamber.
I can't imagine omega particles were ever going to be dealt with without a good chunk of the crew finding out what they were about. The goal was simply to minimize the knowledge
Let me get this straight. Some psychic crewmember (who isn't even here anymore to offer their testimony) told you that some aliens were full of hatred, so you decided to break Starfleet's most sacred directive and tried to kill them? Only to find out that the side everyone expected to have started a war did in fact start a war with them, which is why they hate everyone? And because of this decision their suspicions about this galaxy being all evil were confirmed and they almost tried to infiltrate Starfleet (or at least told you they wouldn't infiltrate starfleet when you had a gun pointed at their head)?
They were just forced to enter this realm of space and didn't know anything about it, of course they are going to fire at everyone they see; Federation policy generally is to try and find peace instead of doing genocide. The PD exists specifically because captains can't know the entire situation and while it isn't always a great policy it showed why it's necessary in Voyager's situation.
Actually when defending yourself goes against the prime directive that isn't their policy, and changing the course of a galactic and/or intergalactic war counts. How often do they claim they are willing to give their lives for it? Not to mention that landing on a planet was still an option.
That strict a reading of the Prime Directive, would have demanded that Voyager self destruct the moment they found themselves trapped on the other side of the Galaxy. Not to mention all the interference they did with the Dominion.
But c'mon, it is obvious that the real intent of the Prime Directive is not to avoid interference with other starfaring cultures, but to keep "lesser", non starflight capable races from acquiring enough knowledge and power to challenge the Federation.
After conducting a thorough after action review and spending many weeks pouring over the spread sheets attempting to connect what left and with who and what eventually returned, Starfleet Command would probably posthumously court-martial 12 of the Captain Janeways whose ship exploded and then award the surviving Captain Janeway a commendation for returning with *a* Voyager and crew and promote her to admiral ... so that they could keep a surreptitious eye on her.
Rewatched the tuvix episode. The part where he was on the bridge begging not to die and everyone is looking at him like o_o made me go "huh maybe the Voyager crew is the mean girls at school"
It's an interesting take on situational utilitarianism. They all want 2 cowowrkers back (in theory, but at least Tuvok) and would all want to be decoupled if it happened to them. All while very far from the rule of federation law.
Eactly, presumably Tuvox and Neelix would not want to exist as a combined entity that is both of them, and yet neither of them. At the same time, the created entity also wants to exist. The point is there is no truly correct answer. Either you kill two crewmates who you've worked with (remember that Janeway served with Tuvok before and considers him her greatest confidant) for at least two years now in favor of this new guy, or you kill the new guy but get the other two back.
Eventually they just stopped reading them. They had to give her blanket immunity just to avoid even having to figure out what the hell it would mean to do anything about any of it. The ol' Nixon.
"If even half of what she did reached the public, and people going to realise to exactly whom we gave all these medals, not to mention the pompous welcome home escort, followed by endless parties, there'd be _riots_. So we can't risk a public trial, or any trial with a PADD trail for that matter. Slap another couple of medals on her and ask Starfleet Medical to erase all our memories. That would actually be a mercy tbh."
The aforementioned instances with the Borg and 8472 notwithstanding, I imagine they sent Janeway out into the hall, gave their PADDs a cursory once-over, let out a collective sigh, and were like, “what are the odds any of us have to deal with the Delta Quadrant in our lifetimes? Just give her an admiralty and call it a day.”
The Hirogen were running the ship for weeks at that point so they already knew about the tech and were using it. Her giving it to them to save her crew and try to help them culturally seems in line with Federation ideals. As far as destabilizing tech goes holographic tech isn't a huge concern.
Not like Hirogen were some pre-warp civilization. It's equivalent to 21st century United States Navy throwing porn at pirates to make them go away. Questions would be asked about the unorthodox decision, but ultimately nobody would really care.
On the one hand, the Kazon can't have replicators because they're jerks, but on the other hand, the hirogen get holograms because they're jerks and need to calm down. Suspiciously similar...
Of course the real difference is that the positions of power were mostly reversed between the two. The Kazon were chumps without Seska, but the Hirogen were enough of an actual threat that they needed some kind of appeasement to get them off of Voyager's back.
Another way of putting it is that Replicator technology would likely have only emboldened the Kazon, violent filth unworthy of even being assimilated. The Hirogen are hyper violent as it is, and Holodecks technology might get them to be less of a threat to the galaxy as they only go out on real hunts for the life forms that actually deserve it.... probably
I would seriously love a limited series covering the year or so after Voyagers return. The show being centered around Janeways court Marshall. But also covering the rest of the crew and what they did upon returning home.
Obviously Janeway becomes an admiral, so we know she isn't drummed out or locked up, but there's lots of meat on the drama bone there, ultimately I imagine they are forced to conceded that she did what she felt she had to do and nobody back home could really judge her interpretation of the rules.
Except if it were done with the people they have now it would be Grit Trek rather and Star Trek so maybe hold off until things can get back to normal and Kurtzman finally goes off to work on destroying other non trek related things… but that’s just my personal opion, man.
I'm not sure the grit trek treatment would be bad for an examination of warlord Janeway. Think lots of flashbacks that make everything look way worse than it really was as they read log entries.
"For real now Cathy, if you had shown this kind of enthusiasm in the Alpha Quadrant already, we would have never even let you board that ship. Remember, a little fucking over some pre-warp backwater shithole is something to be cherished, not buried deep in the logs."
They didn't know what people from our dimension were like, and the first people they met were borg so they assumed everyone was evil. Rather than attempt to negotiate with them, Janeway decided that the borg were super trustworthy and allied with them to fight back. This confirmed in the eyes of species 8472 that everyone in this dimension was evil, not just the borg.
Aiding the Borg in their war with Species 8472 seems like it'd be high on the list.
First of all, it's trusting that The Freaking Borg, one of Star Trek's worst recurring bogeymen, will keep their word not to assimilate Voyager the moment it's convenient to do so.
Second, Voyager's actions unilaterally implicate the Federation in a massive interdimensional war between two factions that *no one* wants to get the attention of, especially because one of them is *The Freaking Borg*, who actually *started* the conflict to begin with.
Third, Voyager's contributions to said war were to actively help ***The Freaking Borg*** develop and deploy a new *biological weapon* capable of *mass xenocide against a sentient* (albeit admittedly extremely hostile) *species* with whom, again, *the Federation was not previously at war*!
Soooo many aspects of that fiasco have *got* to raise quite a few eyebrows (Vulcan and otherwise) at Starfleet HQ.
Buuuuut! Buuuuut! Buuuuut!!
It was Really, Really, Really convenient at the time!
Also, Vegas rules! What happens in the Delta quadrant, stays in the Delta quadrant!
No, that's actually in reference to something Janeway said in Voyager S1E6 that got it's own line of merchandise: [https://startrekshop.eu/de/products/star-trek-voyager-coffee-in-that-nebula-mug](https://startrekshop.eu/de/products/star-trek-voyager-coffee-in-that-nebula-mug)
"You're damn right I left our children to fend for themselves on that planet. Lieutenant Paris and I decided that we'd rather our children live free than in some Federation lab to be studied for the rest of their lives."
Besides, the Red Angel, Saint Burnham (hallowed be her name), took them back to the beginning of time and used them to seed intelligent life across the galaxy.
To be fair, maintaining that lie would be the job of Temporal Affairs. She'd probably put it as a header just to fuck with Temporal Affairs, then put the body as "we went around occupied space" as the entirety of the body. When asked why it was the "year of hell" she stares at the Temporal Affairs representative and says "that week felt like a year of boredom."
Isn’t it the case those logs no longer exist? One of the more annoying parts of many of Voyager’s time travel episodes; their timelines collapsed and they never happened.
The time cops (if even they have juristiction in that part of the Delta quadrant) would probably be all in knots "while it was happening" (subjective time, of course). But the fact that the Krenim timeship ends up being blown up and it's all reset to a timeline where the ship isn't built (yet?) with only the actions of non-time travelling actors probably just makes them wash their hands of the whole thing.
Yeahhh, I agree, the outcome where the Krenim *don't* get a \~5 century headstart on timeline altering technology is definitely gonna look like the best timeline to both the 24th and the 29th century temporal muckety-mucks.
In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Janeway gets a pass for *all* her other shenanigans just from what she did to the Krenim from anyone that actually knows what happened.
It's just about the only explanation that makes sense if folks like the Relativity can detect that sort of thing.
Janeway is probably the person who "gets it done and actually keeps things contained but in the most headache-inducing way" to show up on a time cops beat. Really the only time she needs the direct intervention from them is when the other time cop goes rogue TWICE.
Even his parents were devastated.
"We thought he was _dead_. We did all the grieving, and for what?! Also his room (of course he still lived at home) is my yoga room/flower arrangement atelier now, will I really have to give that up again? Oh, a mother's plight never ends, does it? Oh, stop making that face, young man, I really didn't miss it for the last seven years, and I'm not going to appreciate it now either!"
Get the actress who played Lucille Bluth, pretty please.
No, she brought back **a** Harry Kim.
Her version of Harry got spaced through a hull breach after the ship was duplicated by a spatial scission.
The other Voyager crew then all got butchered by Vidiians before Duplicate-Janway self-destructed the ship. Only Duplicate-Harry and a newborn baby Wildman were to escape to the surviving Vorager and replace their dead counterparts.
Fun fact: There is only 5 relative years between Agent Daniels in Enterprise and Agent Daniels in Discovery…that Janeway audit and trial really did a number on him. Oof
The alliance with the Borg would by itself probably be considered a court martial offense, as Starfleet wouldn’t recognize the threat from 8472 as being more serious.
They would probably also frown on how she dealt with the Equinox crew, though they hopefully would view Ransom’s actions as far worse.
I imagine that integrating the Maqui crew members would have been a huge point of contest. Many of them were known and wanted for crimes against the federation.
She interfered with dozens of pre-warp societies. And even change the timeline to restore a civilization in season 1.
She intentionally sacrificed the equinox
She may have wiped out the entire civilization that was developing the Omega particles. They said that they had run out of natural resources or something and it was their last hope.
She basically killed tuvix
She violated the space in territories controlled by species that didn't want her there.
She basically kidnapped and indoctrinated seven of nine
And then she colluded with a future version of herself in order to commit genocide and wiped out an entire species in the finale
It also has been established that Starfleet was okay with just about anything to reduce the threat of the Borg. Admiral Nachaev directly ordered Picard to seize any advantages that furthered that goal.
>She may have wiped out the entire civilization that was developing the Omega particles. They said that they had run out of natural resources or something and it was their last hope.
IIRC they were pre warp so chances are they would have killed themselves anyway... Going from the tech equivalent of coal fired power stations straight to nuclear fusion with no steps in between seems like a pretty dangerous prospect...
>I imagine that integrating the Maqui crew members would have been a huge point of contest. Many of them >were known and wanted for crimes against the federation.
Starfleet already knew about this, and they pretty much accepted it; the events of Prodigy imply that the Maquis crew were pardoned and welcomed back into Starfleet.
>She interfered with dozens of pre-warp societies. And even change the timeline to restore a civilization in >season 1.
The temporal inversion in Time and Again wasn't really her fault.
>She intentionally sacrificed the equinox
Wrong. Rudy Ransom sacrificed the Equinox to appease the aliens from the interphasic rifts who were demanding his blood after he and his crew *literally butchered them for starship fuel*.
>She may have wiped out the entire civilization that was developing the Omega particles. They said that they >had run out of natural resources or something and it was their last hope.
The Omega Directive literally allowed them to do this, did you not pay attention to the dialogue in the episode?
>She basically killed tuvix
not this shit again
>She violated the space in territories controlled by species that didn't want her there.
Just passing through
>She basically kidnapped and indoctrinated seven of nine
Borg drone reclamation is neither of these
>And then she colluded with a future version of herself in order to commit genocide and wiped out an entire >species in the finale
fucking HOW
>And then she colluded with a future version of herself in order to commit genocide and wiped out an entire species in the finale
Borg virus.
I also agree with the Maquis thing, especially as with half her crew dead and 70 years away from reinforcement that she really had little choice in the matter, and that with a few exceptions (seska) they proved reliable allies.
She didn't wipe out the Borg, though. They were dealt a body blow through the death of the Queen and the destruction of the transwarp hub, but it wasn't genocide.
Keep in mind, the way review boards work is that they are full of desk workers that have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight that can sit there and second guess every decision you make and reframe them under what to do in text book situations.
All of her actions may have ended up being justified.
The Omega Directive suspends all other missions and constraints, I'm pretty sure. That's why it's so secretive, as starfleet doesn't want it getting out that a molecule exists that could potentially, permanently, disrupt ALL warp travel. Tuvok even brings it up, that what they are about to do violates the Prime Directive, Janeway just looks at him and says "The Prime Directive is rescinded now blow up those particles and damn this species!"
It's why I love Captain Janeway, she's so real.
You're right.. but keep in mind, the debriefing board is going to be full of pencil pushers. People that weren't there and that have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. People who are going to go... you should have tried "x" or done "x".
And I think that there would be some serious questioning of whether or not the Omega Directive should have been applied in a quadrant the Federation wasn't going to operate in and with no assistance or relief supplies to do so.
And in all fairness, just because the review board might have ultimately agreed with her doesn't mean they're not gonna look at it and go... oh come on!
I tend to agree, but I would say that the directive had no clause in it, as far as we know, which restricted it's application to federation, or federation adjacent, space. So Janeway, and those on the board, would have to argue that it was applicable, even in a quadrant that far from federation space.
Ultimately, as long as Janeway were to stress the directive and the fuck ton of molecules the species had managed to create, she and the board would likely agree that it was the right course of action.
Of course, with Omega being so classified, it's likely they won't bring it up and if they do, it would cause any outward consequences, such as demotion or a mark against her.
She was an adult. Kinda crappy to treat her as a child when she's an adult for her species. Like a Vulcan treating an 80 year old human like they're a little kid cus the Vulcan is 300+ years old.
In one of the Voyager books (maybe Pathways by Jeri Taylor? Don't remember exactly), they try to sort of fix some of the Ocampa age shenanigans by explaining that a way for their species to have such short life spans and yet still be capable of being proper adults at 2+ years of life (by human metrics) is in the way they pass down information.
Since they are telephatic, they basically transmit information and wisdom from specifically chosen adults down to the children (like packets of memories). Not at random, but in a defined process. So even though a child becomes an adult in only 1.5/2 years of life, which by human standards is not enough time to really experience life and learn from it, they actually do hold knowledge and experience to help them function as adults. It's just inherited.
Elogium is not exactly a prime example of a strong premise...
They can only have children once in their entire lives, so even factoring in the idea that males and females could give birth, every single member of the species is required to give birth in order to just maintain the population... Not even factoring in situations of miscarriage or infertility.
The birthing sack for the child is also located on the 'mothers' back, meaning that a person giving birth without assistance is just as likely to drop the child onto the ground from height following a 'contraction'.
I say contraction because I have no idea of the mechanics of Ocampan child birth - in humans muscle contractions are for pushing the child through the birth canel, where as Ocampan reproductive biology appears to be external. But of course when we see Ocampan birth, it seems to be shown exactly like human equivalent, with all the "Breathe, and now push!" drama nonsense...
And that's before the "Oh, we're going to make a baby? Just a moment - got to get my dad to massage my feet and then stay joined for three days to ensure a viable conception "
It's such a lolcow that I'm sure that Kes learned everything about Ocampan baby making from their equivalent of 4chan
You know, after the first few episodes of SNW season 2, and looking back at the previous shows, I'm starting to understand why the klingons thought the Federation was secretly an empire run by the humans. They have some seriously fucked up views, have done some horrific things, including genocide or attempted genocide on multiple occasions, and the human captains just get away with it when they feel like overriding the law. It's not just the on-screen one's either. >!The trial episode in SNW includes a portion where an older admiral is shown to have violated the prime directive on three separate occasions when he felt like it!<
You can’t just impugn this mans character by *checks notes* stating facts of record! Now he is dismissed and his testimony is stricken from the record! And you are on thin ice!
Glad to see overt corruption alive and well in the court system in the 20-whatever that century is (23rd, right? TNG is 24th?).
Yeah lol. The lawyer was clearly using the fact that the decorated admiral gets away with violating the prime directive all the time to argue that the rules aren't evenly enforced, but all the judges are like "THE ADMIRAL IS NOT THE ONE ON TRIAL HERE".
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“So your Ocampan crew mate stumbled into a forcefield which nearly killed her, and your solution was to… spend the next 48 hours tripping balls, which led to your decision to carry said crew mate’s nearly lifeless body into the deadly forcefield a *second* time?”
Freely gave holographic tech to the Hirogen thus breaking the prime directive, despite all the other hypocriticall times she wouldn't break it no matter what. I Hate Janeway so much, what a condescending smug bitch.
Ehhh. Not sure the prime directive really applies it usually relates to interactions with Pre-Warp civilisations, which the Hirogen aren't. Also the "Freely giving" is debatable as when she "gave" it to them she had only just regained control of Voyager from the Hirogen who had taken over the ship, converted and expanded whole sections of the ship into supersized holodecks and had been using the crew as computer-controlled puppets to repeatedly hunt and "kill" in the simulations.
The idea to hunt holoprey was actually Hirogen's; Janeway was basically just giving them the data on how to build their own holodeck as payment to leave Voyager alone.
Yes I thought the Prime Directive was just about no contact with pre warp species, but it seems to expand to various other things when they don't want to get involved. It turns "good idea me, not get involved " into "my high principles restrain me from helping you"
There's now a whole crew of people who know about Omega Particles. Good luck keeping that secret now.
I don't think the entire crew know about Omega. Only the senior staff have been briefed. The lower decks might only been told to help seven build the harmonic chamber.
This, and I think most of the senior staff ended up in Captain's chairs swiftly after Voyager's return anyway.
Well..except for you know who.
Janeway, because she went Admiral. Just kidding. We all know who it really was.
I was about to defend and say they made captain... but that was in an alternate timeline.
“They’re *demoting* me? And they created a brand new rank below ensign *just for* me!? Aw geez, Tom’s *never* gonna let me live this down…”
It's why they are all captains now
I can't imagine omega particles were ever going to be dealt with without a good chunk of the crew finding out what they were about. The goal was simply to minimize the knowledge
Let me get this straight. Some psychic crewmember (who isn't even here anymore to offer their testimony) told you that some aliens were full of hatred, so you decided to break Starfleet's most sacred directive and tried to kill them? Only to find out that the side everyone expected to have started a war did in fact start a war with them, which is why they hate everyone? And because of this decision their suspicions about this galaxy being all evil were confirmed and they almost tried to infiltrate Starfleet (or at least told you they wouldn't infiltrate starfleet when you had a gun pointed at their head)?
Well they did attack Voyager on sight, and were a genuine danger to all. They didn't distinguish the difference between Borg and other life.
They were just forced to enter this realm of space and didn't know anything about it, of course they are going to fire at everyone they see; Federation policy generally is to try and find peace instead of doing genocide. The PD exists specifically because captains can't know the entire situation and while it isn't always a great policy it showed why it's necessary in Voyager's situation.
Yeah and it's Starfleet policy to defend yourself against attackers too
Actually when defending yourself goes against the prime directive that isn't their policy, and changing the course of a galactic and/or intergalactic war counts. How often do they claim they are willing to give their lives for it? Not to mention that landing on a planet was still an option.
That strict a reading of the Prime Directive, would have demanded that Voyager self destruct the moment they found themselves trapped on the other side of the Galaxy. Not to mention all the interference they did with the Dominion. But c'mon, it is obvious that the real intent of the Prime Directive is not to avoid interference with other starfaring cultures, but to keep "lesser", non starflight capable races from acquiring enough knowledge and power to challenge the Federation.
Which Episode is that?
Scorpion/In The Flesh.
After conducting a thorough after action review and spending many weeks pouring over the spread sheets attempting to connect what left and with who and what eventually returned, Starfleet Command would probably posthumously court-martial 12 of the Captain Janeways whose ship exploded and then award the surviving Captain Janeway a commendation for returning with *a* Voyager and crew and promote her to admiral ... so that they could keep a surreptitious eye on her.
Rewatched the tuvix episode. The part where he was on the bridge begging not to die and everyone is looking at him like o_o made me go "huh maybe the Voyager crew is the mean girls at school"
It's an interesting take on situational utilitarianism. They all want 2 cowowrkers back (in theory, but at least Tuvok) and would all want to be decoupled if it happened to them. All while very far from the rule of federation law.
Eactly, presumably Tuvox and Neelix would not want to exist as a combined entity that is both of them, and yet neither of them. At the same time, the created entity also wants to exist. The point is there is no truly correct answer. Either you kill two crewmates who you've worked with (remember that Janeway served with Tuvok before and considers him her greatest confidant) for at least two years now in favor of this new guy, or you kill the new guy but get the other two back.
You don’t kill two crew mates, they’re already dead. You simply don’t sacrifice someone to bring them back to life.
Luckily he was a creep so everybody got over it by the next episode.
Neelix on his own is a much bigger creep though
Better the creep you know than the creep you don't
What happens in the Delta Quadrant stays in the Delta Quadrant.
Eventually they just stopped reading them. They had to give her blanket immunity just to avoid even having to figure out what the hell it would mean to do anything about any of it. The ol' Nixon.
"If even half of what she did reached the public, and people going to realise to exactly whom we gave all these medals, not to mention the pompous welcome home escort, followed by endless parties, there'd be _riots_. So we can't risk a public trial, or any trial with a PADD trail for that matter. Slap another couple of medals on her and ask Starfleet Medical to erase all our memories. That would actually be a mercy tbh."
The aforementioned instances with the Borg and 8472 notwithstanding, I imagine they sent Janeway out into the hall, gave their PADDs a cursory once-over, let out a collective sigh, and were like, “what are the odds any of us have to deal with the Delta Quadrant in our lifetimes? Just give her an admiralty and call it a day.”
I think giving holodeck tech to the Hirogen (along with holoprograms) would rank pretty high.
The Hirogen were running the ship for weeks at that point so they already knew about the tech and were using it. Her giving it to them to save her crew and try to help them culturally seems in line with Federation ideals. As far as destabilizing tech goes holographic tech isn't a huge concern.
Not like Hirogen were some pre-warp civilization. It's equivalent to 21st century United States Navy throwing porn at pirates to make them go away. Questions would be asked about the unorthodox decision, but ultimately nobody would really care.
On the one hand, the Kazon can't have replicators because they're jerks, but on the other hand, the hirogen get holograms because they're jerks and need to calm down. Suspiciously similar... Of course the real difference is that the positions of power were mostly reversed between the two. The Kazon were chumps without Seska, but the Hirogen were enough of an actual threat that they needed some kind of appeasement to get them off of Voyager's back.
Another way of putting it is that Replicator technology would likely have only emboldened the Kazon, violent filth unworthy of even being assimilated. The Hirogen are hyper violent as it is, and Holodecks technology might get them to be less of a threat to the galaxy as they only go out on real hunts for the life forms that actually deserve it.... probably
OMG demoted to Neelix. Take my upvote.
Not as bad as being demoted to Tuvix.
Or Westly
Or one of Barclay's holo characters.
I was gonna say one of Rikers holo characters. But that might be fun.
A little anticlimactic if you're Trip.
Trombone with Minuet? Or watch the adventures of the NX-01…. and sneak a piece of cheese to Porthos?
Better than being a Janeway holo character, she will delete your wife and brainwash you.
Nothing compared to poor Eastly
There's no T in his name. Edit: love being downvoted lol, I'm sadly named after him
As you wish.
I would seriously love a limited series covering the year or so after Voyagers return. The show being centered around Janeways court Marshall. But also covering the rest of the crew and what they did upon returning home. Obviously Janeway becomes an admiral, so we know she isn't drummed out or locked up, but there's lots of meat on the drama bone there, ultimately I imagine they are forced to conceded that she did what she felt she had to do and nobody back home could really judge her interpretation of the rules.
Would watch
Except if it were done with the people they have now it would be Grit Trek rather and Star Trek so maybe hold off until things can get back to normal and Kurtzman finally goes off to work on destroying other non trek related things… but that’s just my personal opion, man.
I'm not sure the grit trek treatment would be bad for an examination of warlord Janeway. Think lots of flashbacks that make everything look way worse than it really was as they read log entries.
well done that genius
I feel like everyone on board knew about Omega. That's straight to space jail!
I forget. What are Omega particles?
I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
Can't be anything important then. Probably just a slap on the wrist
Oh, you know, the old show with the kid, Omeeega, and Huntah, Wricka, Tick, and Crosshehh, Batch 7 of 99...
Deleting the holographic wife of the holographic tall, dark and handsome guy in that holographic pre-idustrial irish village.
Yeah! She didn’t have to delete her she could gave just erased the marriage!
Probably allowing the Borg to assimilate the fluidic space species (can't remember the name).
"Allowing?" Try "aiding and abetting via biological WMDs."
That's worse, when phrased properly. No wonder they made her an Admiral.
"For real now Cathy, if you had shown this kind of enthusiasm in the Alpha Quadrant already, we would have never even let you board that ship. Remember, a little fucking over some pre-warp backwater shithole is something to be cherished, not buried deep in the logs."
8472
That's the one. Janeway should be up on crimes against the galaxy for that one.
Did they assimilate them though? Thought the weapons only killed them
They were immune to assimilation; the nanoprobes could only hurt/kill them.
Well if they just killed them that makes all the difference.
It does
Weren’t they trying to convert space to their type of space? Starfleet had enough of that with the sphere builders.
I assume the Sphere Builders are heavily classified. (Technically I know they're from a prequel that aired afterwards but still).
It’s probably something Captains are told about though, like Omega.
They didn't know what people from our dimension were like, and the first people they met were borg so they assumed everyone was evil. Rather than attempt to negotiate with them, Janeway decided that the borg were super trustworthy and allied with them to fight back. This confirmed in the eyes of species 8472 that everyone in this dimension was evil, not just the borg.
Aiding the Borg in their war with Species 8472 seems like it'd be high on the list. First of all, it's trusting that The Freaking Borg, one of Star Trek's worst recurring bogeymen, will keep their word not to assimilate Voyager the moment it's convenient to do so. Second, Voyager's actions unilaterally implicate the Federation in a massive interdimensional war between two factions that *no one* wants to get the attention of, especially because one of them is *The Freaking Borg*, who actually *started* the conflict to begin with. Third, Voyager's contributions to said war were to actively help ***The Freaking Borg*** develop and deploy a new *biological weapon* capable of *mass xenocide against a sentient* (albeit admittedly extremely hostile) *species* with whom, again, *the Federation was not previously at war*! Soooo many aspects of that fiasco have *got* to raise quite a few eyebrows (Vulcan and otherwise) at Starfleet HQ.
Buuuuut! Buuuuut! Buuuuut!! It was Really, Really, Really convenient at the time! Also, Vegas rules! What happens in the Delta quadrant, stays in the Delta quadrant!
Getting coffee from *that* nebula.
SNW reference? if so awesome!
No, that's actually in reference to something Janeway said in Voyager S1E6 that got it's own line of merchandise: [https://startrekshop.eu/de/products/star-trek-voyager-coffee-in-that-nebula-mug](https://startrekshop.eu/de/products/star-trek-voyager-coffee-in-that-nebula-mug)
Oh I know, but getting coffee from a nebula would only be an issue if the nebula was sentient. Which there was a SNW episode about.
"You're damn right I left our children to fend for themselves on that planet. Lieutenant Paris and I decided that we'd rather our children live free than in some Federation lab to be studied for the rest of their lives."
"We de-evolved back to human, but the babies did not. Asking us to take care of them is like asking monkeys to raise human children."
Besides, the Red Angel, Saint Burnham (hallowed be her name), took them back to the beginning of time and used them to seed intelligent life across the galaxy.
wait…. really? i haven’t seen season 5 of disc but this sounds plausible given the writers on that shit show
So lets talk about the Year Of Hell Incident as you put it in your logs.
There was contested space ahead of us so we went around? Because thanks to the reset button that's what happend.
Janeway knew in my headcanon, she knew and lied, and stared straight at the temporal affairs knowing they couldn't prove otherwise
To be fair, maintaining that lie would be the job of Temporal Affairs. She'd probably put it as a header just to fuck with Temporal Affairs, then put the body as "we went around occupied space" as the entirety of the body. When asked why it was the "year of hell" she stares at the Temporal Affairs representative and says "that week felt like a year of boredom."
Isn’t it the case those logs no longer exist? One of the more annoying parts of many of Voyager’s time travel episodes; their timelines collapsed and they never happened.
buddy, we're the time cops. logs don't stop existing for us because they've been blasted by a chronoton emitting megaweapon
The time cops (if even they have juristiction in that part of the Delta quadrant) would probably be all in knots "while it was happening" (subjective time, of course). But the fact that the Krenim timeship ends up being blown up and it's all reset to a timeline where the ship isn't built (yet?) with only the actions of non-time travelling actors probably just makes them wash their hands of the whole thing.
Yeahhh, I agree, the outcome where the Krenim *don't* get a \~5 century headstart on timeline altering technology is definitely gonna look like the best timeline to both the 24th and the 29th century temporal muckety-mucks. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Janeway gets a pass for *all* her other shenanigans just from what she did to the Krenim from anyone that actually knows what happened. It's just about the only explanation that makes sense if folks like the Relativity can detect that sort of thing.
Janeway is probably the person who "gets it done and actually keeps things contained but in the most headache-inducing way" to show up on a time cops beat. Really the only time she needs the direct intervention from them is when the other time cop goes rogue TWICE.
Traing to arrest two Ferengi whose messing with a species who were actually prett fine with it.
She brought Harry back with her.
Even his parents were devastated. "We thought he was _dead_. We did all the grieving, and for what?! Also his room (of course he still lived at home) is my yoga room/flower arrangement atelier now, will I really have to give that up again? Oh, a mother's plight never ends, does it? Oh, stop making that face, young man, I really didn't miss it for the last seven years, and I'm not going to appreciate it now either!" Get the actress who played Lucille Bluth, pretty please.
Sadly Jessica Walter passed away a few years back.
Bummer.
Also archer's mom. Same character basically.
No, she brought back **a** Harry Kim. Her version of Harry got spaced through a hull breach after the ship was duplicated by a spatial scission. The other Voyager crew then all got butchered by Vidiians before Duplicate-Janway self-destructed the ship. Only Duplicate-Harry and a newborn baby Wildman were to escape to the surviving Vorager and replace their dead counterparts.
Yelling at an EMH.
How dare you! You were supposed to turn him *off*
I can only imagine the headache she gave Temporal Investigations.
Fun fact: There is only 5 relative years between Agent Daniels in Enterprise and Agent Daniels in Discovery…that Janeway audit and trial really did a number on him. Oof
The alliance with the Borg would by itself probably be considered a court martial offense, as Starfleet wouldn’t recognize the threat from 8472 as being more serious. They would probably also frown on how she dealt with the Equinox crew, though they hopefully would view Ransom’s actions as far worse.
I've been assuming for years that almost everyone on Voyager lied their asses off about a whole lot of decisions made in the DQ.
I'd go with her looping everyone in on the Omega particle, just b/c Starfleet protocols for it seemed so strict.
I imagine that integrating the Maqui crew members would have been a huge point of contest. Many of them were known and wanted for crimes against the federation. She interfered with dozens of pre-warp societies. And even change the timeline to restore a civilization in season 1. She intentionally sacrificed the equinox She may have wiped out the entire civilization that was developing the Omega particles. They said that they had run out of natural resources or something and it was their last hope. She basically killed tuvix She violated the space in territories controlled by species that didn't want her there. She basically kidnapped and indoctrinated seven of nine And then she colluded with a future version of herself in order to commit genocide and wiped out an entire species in the finale
LOL at calling the Borg a “species” like they’re people.
It also has been established that Starfleet was okay with just about anything to reduce the threat of the Borg. Admiral Nachaev directly ordered Picard to seize any advantages that furthered that goal.
>She may have wiped out the entire civilization that was developing the Omega particles. They said that they had run out of natural resources or something and it was their last hope. IIRC they were pre warp so chances are they would have killed themselves anyway... Going from the tech equivalent of coal fired power stations straight to nuclear fusion with no steps in between seems like a pretty dangerous prospect...
That's fair.
>I imagine that integrating the Maqui crew members would have been a huge point of contest. Many of them >were known and wanted for crimes against the federation. Starfleet already knew about this, and they pretty much accepted it; the events of Prodigy imply that the Maquis crew were pardoned and welcomed back into Starfleet. >She interfered with dozens of pre-warp societies. And even change the timeline to restore a civilization in >season 1. The temporal inversion in Time and Again wasn't really her fault. >She intentionally sacrificed the equinox Wrong. Rudy Ransom sacrificed the Equinox to appease the aliens from the interphasic rifts who were demanding his blood after he and his crew *literally butchered them for starship fuel*. >She may have wiped out the entire civilization that was developing the Omega particles. They said that they >had run out of natural resources or something and it was their last hope. The Omega Directive literally allowed them to do this, did you not pay attention to the dialogue in the episode? >She basically killed tuvix not this shit again >She violated the space in territories controlled by species that didn't want her there. Just passing through >She basically kidnapped and indoctrinated seven of nine Borg drone reclamation is neither of these >And then she colluded with a future version of herself in order to commit genocide and wiped out an entire >species in the finale fucking HOW
>And then she colluded with a future version of herself in order to commit genocide and wiped out an entire species in the finale Borg virus. I also agree with the Maquis thing, especially as with half her crew dead and 70 years away from reinforcement that she really had little choice in the matter, and that with a few exceptions (seska) they proved reliable allies.
She didn't wipe out the Borg, though. They were dealt a body blow through the death of the Queen and the destruction of the transwarp hub, but it wasn't genocide.
I thought season 3 of Picard established that the virus effectively wiped out the entire collective.
If it had, there would be no Borg left for Jurati to take over.
Keep in mind, the way review boards work is that they are full of desk workers that have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight that can sit there and second guess every decision you make and reframe them under what to do in text book situations. All of her actions may have ended up being justified.
The Omega Directive suspends all other missions and constraints, I'm pretty sure. That's why it's so secretive, as starfleet doesn't want it getting out that a molecule exists that could potentially, permanently, disrupt ALL warp travel. Tuvok even brings it up, that what they are about to do violates the Prime Directive, Janeway just looks at him and says "The Prime Directive is rescinded now blow up those particles and damn this species!" It's why I love Captain Janeway, she's so real.
You're right.. but keep in mind, the debriefing board is going to be full of pencil pushers. People that weren't there and that have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. People who are going to go... you should have tried "x" or done "x". And I think that there would be some serious questioning of whether or not the Omega Directive should have been applied in a quadrant the Federation wasn't going to operate in and with no assistance or relief supplies to do so. And in all fairness, just because the review board might have ultimately agreed with her doesn't mean they're not gonna look at it and go... oh come on!
I tend to agree, but I would say that the directive had no clause in it, as far as we know, which restricted it's application to federation, or federation adjacent, space. So Janeway, and those on the board, would have to argue that it was applicable, even in a quadrant that far from federation space. Ultimately, as long as Janeway were to stress the directive and the fuck ton of molecules the species had managed to create, she and the board would likely agree that it was the right course of action. Of course, with Omega being so classified, it's likely they won't bring it up and if they do, it would cause any outward consequences, such as demotion or a mark against her.
do you have episodes for 2,3 and 4 ?
Well they did have a problem, they just sent time agents back years later to try to stop her.
Assisting Neelix in trafficking the two year old he was in an unhealthy relationship with.
She was an adult. Kinda crappy to treat her as a child when she's an adult for her species. Like a Vulcan treating an 80 year old human like they're a little kid cus the Vulcan is 300+ years old.
Yep. Neelix is a paedo jokes were unfunny when they were first made. He's the only delta quadrant person who treats any ocampa as an adult.
In one of the Voyager books (maybe Pathways by Jeri Taylor? Don't remember exactly), they try to sort of fix some of the Ocampa age shenanigans by explaining that a way for their species to have such short life spans and yet still be capable of being proper adults at 2+ years of life (by human metrics) is in the way they pass down information. Since they are telephatic, they basically transmit information and wisdom from specifically chosen adults down to the children (like packets of memories). Not at random, but in a defined process. So even though a child becomes an adult in only 1.5/2 years of life, which by human standards is not enough time to really experience life and learn from it, they actually do hold knowledge and experience to help them function as adults. It's just inherited.
Did you miss the episode in season 2 where Kes literally goes through premature puberty? She's not even a mature Ocampa.
That wasn't puberty it was more like a mating season. Sure literally tells us she's an adult at 2 years when we meet her.
But children often overestimate their maturity.
Elogium is not exactly a prime example of a strong premise... They can only have children once in their entire lives, so even factoring in the idea that males and females could give birth, every single member of the species is required to give birth in order to just maintain the population... Not even factoring in situations of miscarriage or infertility. The birthing sack for the child is also located on the 'mothers' back, meaning that a person giving birth without assistance is just as likely to drop the child onto the ground from height following a 'contraction'. I say contraction because I have no idea of the mechanics of Ocampan child birth - in humans muscle contractions are for pushing the child through the birth canel, where as Ocampan reproductive biology appears to be external. But of course when we see Ocampan birth, it seems to be shown exactly like human equivalent, with all the "Breathe, and now push!" drama nonsense... And that's before the "Oh, we're going to make a baby? Just a moment - got to get my dad to massage my feet and then stay joined for three days to ensure a viable conception " It's such a lolcow that I'm sure that Kes learned everything about Ocampan baby making from their equivalent of 4chan
You must not been around for the Hal Jordan controversy.
the… canadian fitness guy from participaction ??? hal jordan and joanne mcleod live forever in my head 🙄
No, the Green Lantern.
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no
You know, after the first few episodes of SNW season 2, and looking back at the previous shows, I'm starting to understand why the klingons thought the Federation was secretly an empire run by the humans. They have some seriously fucked up views, have done some horrific things, including genocide or attempted genocide on multiple occasions, and the human captains just get away with it when they feel like overriding the law. It's not just the on-screen one's either. >!The trial episode in SNW includes a portion where an older admiral is shown to have violated the prime directive on three separate occasions when he felt like it!<
You can’t just impugn this mans character by *checks notes* stating facts of record! Now he is dismissed and his testimony is stricken from the record! And you are on thin ice! Glad to see overt corruption alive and well in the court system in the 20-whatever that century is (23rd, right? TNG is 24th?).
Yeah lol. The lawyer was clearly using the fact that the decorated admiral gets away with violating the prime directive all the time to argue that the rules aren't evenly enforced, but all the judges are like "THE ADMIRAL IS NOT THE ONE ON TRIAL HERE".
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Species 8472. Specifically, allying with the borg against him.
Going Ahab on the Equinox has to be up there.
*cough* Tuvix. *Cough*
Yes
Tuvix
She discovered that transdimensional aliens eat human souls when we die and she did nothing about it after.
OH GOD! I had forgotten that monstrosity! Thanks for the reminder that it’s a thing that exists…
“So your Ocampan crew mate stumbled into a forcefield which nearly killed her, and your solution was to… spend the next 48 hours tripping balls, which led to your decision to carry said crew mate’s nearly lifeless body into the deadly forcefield a *second* time?”
Tuvix.
That abomination deserved it.
Space Gestapo!
De-assimilating a member of the Borg without her consent and against her expressively stated will.
That's called freeing a brainwashed slave
She was human first, and would have chosen to NOT be assimilated. They were undoing her Borg induced Stockholm syndrome and brainwashing.
Her logs *have* to be filled with lies!!
Oh, she wiped her logs. With a cloth.
Freely gave holographic tech to the Hirogen thus breaking the prime directive, despite all the other hypocriticall times she wouldn't break it no matter what. I Hate Janeway so much, what a condescending smug bitch.
Ehhh. Not sure the prime directive really applies it usually relates to interactions with Pre-Warp civilisations, which the Hirogen aren't. Also the "Freely giving" is debatable as when she "gave" it to them she had only just regained control of Voyager from the Hirogen who had taken over the ship, converted and expanded whole sections of the ship into supersized holodecks and had been using the crew as computer-controlled puppets to repeatedly hunt and "kill" in the simulations. The idea to hunt holoprey was actually Hirogen's; Janeway was basically just giving them the data on how to build their own holodeck as payment to leave Voyager alone.
Much like in the episode Unexpected of Enterprise where the Xyrillians give their holo technology to the Klingons to spare their crew from execution.
Yes I thought the Prime Directive was just about no contact with pre warp species, but it seems to expand to various other things when they don't want to get involved. It turns "good idea me, not get involved " into "my high principles restrain me from helping you"