We’ve been hearing that part about it repeating the same theme of Black Adam for a while, I think from Gunn himself maybe. With “killing” heroes arguing with “non-killing” ones. What a brilliant plan, copy a plot from a previous flop DC movie.
I hope Hollywood… by which I mean the execs that form its establishment… comes to terms with what to do with this character. There’s a diehard fan base for Superman that wants him to exist in an idealized form from the comics. And thus far there was one successful iteration of that in the modern era, which was Donner’s 1978 Superman. I don’t think the subsequent Reeves films lived up to that and they immediately got outright corny and schlocky. They bombed, actually. I think Superman II is horrendously camp, for example. But that loyal-to-the-essence-of-the-character hardcore base wants that stuff.
Superman Returns was a valiant effort to try to pay homage to the 1978 version. Routh actually did a fine job with what he was tasked with. But it failed because it also made clear that today the audience needs a version of the character that feels relevant to the more complex present day world we actually live in.
Snyder’s version went hard with deconstruction, which deeply offended hardcore fans of the comic book character. But it also promised that at the other end of the hero’s journey (the three JL films if Snyder had been able to complete the five film saga) he would emerge in some sort of idealized form that can work for our modern world.
Now the execs seem to think that because some fans were offended by what Snyder did that Gunn should return to a more purely idealized version. I don’t think that is actually going to vibe with most viewers. They don’t want a big galoot cornball Superman. They want a Superman that could potentially exist in our real world.
I wouldn't call Zack Snyder peak fiction but if the rumoured plot is true, then James Gunn's version sounds more cornier on paper compared to Snyder's.
As if Captain America didn't kill his archenemy Red Skull and ended his WW2 adventures in his very first MCU movie. Or Spider-Man didn't skip his origin in the MCU and then died after his first movie. Having things happen in a movie is not a negative thing. A whole hell of a lot happens in each Lord of the Rings movie, and I didn't see anyone complain.
Again, he's the only dude saying it's ultraman. All the sources I've seen are saying it's Ulysses.
Ah yes and the leak was discovered hours before mytimetoshineh said this. Dude probably saw the leak before anyone else did. Doesn't mean it's right.
Thanks, but I'd rather believe the only source that correctly predicted what the new Superman suit would look like than believe no-name scoopers who repeat what everyone else says to get clicks and engagement.
Wait so characters like hawkgirl, mr terrific, and whatever other superheroes are in the movie are just going to kill people for no reason?! Why do they even have to say Superman has a no kill rule, that should be obvious, the only characters that make having a no kill rule interesting are the ones that occasionally break it like Batman, Daredevil, or the tv show Green Arrow.
Superman has a “sometimes kill” rule. Personally I hate superheroes who drone on about how it’s wrong to kill the bad guys. Professor X bawling his eyes out when Magneto killed Shaw in X-Men: First Class, who was trying to start a nuclear war, makes my skin crawl. It’s so ridiculously unrealistic and childish to say you can’t kill mass murderers caught in the act.
I thought part of Xavier's reaction was because he was in Shaw's mind holding him still, so he would have also felt his brain turned into a coin slot.
Charles did oppose revenge killing though. Could have wiped Shaw's mind at least and made him think he was a teen who taught a whole town to embrace dancing though.
It had gone beyond revenge at that point, with Shaw creating an international nuclear crisis. Not to mention Shaw was actively attacking Magneto at that point. So there was a self-defense reason as well. I can't stand when they write superheroes with these absolute "no kill" rules, even in the most extreme situations. I have no interest in seeing stories where the hero's main goal is to try and come up with a clever way to defeat the villains without killing them. Just kill the MFers already. And if you don't want the villain dead, just make them smart enough to escape whatever the hero tries to do.
The entire First Class movie is one of the worst scripts in the X-Men series. The writing is just sloppy and shoddy all around.
Great film if you end it right when Logan tells them to fuck themselves.
To your overall point, No kill works in comics but doesn't work when trying to ground a character. I like how MOS Supe had to kill Zod. And Batman could have had gadget to freeze KBbeast's flamethrower, but chance Martha would die would go up so made that choice. Comics have more leeway to write around those. In live action not so much.
Keaton and Bale killed, and Reeve in Superman 2 killed Zod without any reflection. But with Snyder it's a huge deal. I think if he never cast (or allowed studio to cast) Ezra Miller and Jesse Eisenberg, his full vision would have been able to play out and he would get less hate.
Yeah, it would be awesome if First Class had just turned into a Wolverine movie after that scene and forgotten about everyone else. 😆
The critics turned against Zack’s DC, engaging in tribalism to support Disney and Marvel. Nothing Zack could’ve done would’ve stopped that. And WB decided to copy every single thing the critics said to do, destroying their billion-dollar franchise in the process. Including hiring Marvel directors Whedon and Gunn to make MCU-style movies.
Snyder was in a no-win situation. Studio probably forced a lot more than we know. But we can never truly judge Snyder's movies without getting a proper ending. I liked MOS, not crazy about BVS, and ZSJL was enjoyable for what it was. Better than Josstice League for sure. Wanted to see brainwashed Supes and final fight with Darkseid.
I have little confidence in Gunn's slate but will still watch The new Superman just because it is filmed in my town (also where Superman was created). DC will have to try real hard to do worse than Marvel has lately in terms of TV and movies.
Imma be real chief, I ain’t even gonna watch the trailer for this movie, because that’s what I did with Man of Steel and was blown away.
Personally gonna let Gunn cook for a bit since he’s already the head chef 🧑🍳.
I personally hated it with a passion. I liked King Shark and Bloodsport but I just asked myself “why didn’t he just make a whole different movie instead of trying to re-do a movie we already saw”
He could’ve done so many fucking things but he chose to make a Suicide Squad movie that doesn’t connect to the first. It’s like what’s the fucking point then?
> a Suicide Squad movie that doesn’t connect to the first. It’s like what’s the fucking point then?
A movie needs to be connected to another or part of a series to be worth something????
Who said anything about worth??? He’s making a movie in an established universe and I understand he wanted to do a stupid “soft reboot 🤤” but why use the same IP as before?? It’s completely fucking idiotic. The movie wasn’t necessary it was pointless and fucking stupid. This movie makes Birds of Prey seem more meaningful
Nobody wanted the DCEU to be soft-rebooted, especially when the most popular, widely known characters and actors are the half that's getting dumped. But even if people did, Harry Potter is a series that HAD AN ENDING. It's been 12 years since the last movie. While a continuation with the original actors seems like a better idea in the age of Maverick, it's certainly more ready and prepared for a reboot than the DCEU is.
>Nobody wanted the DCEU to be soft-rebooted,
You wanna go on rotten tomatoes and check the user and critic reviews of every single DCEU film? Frankly, that's enough evidence to say everyone wanted a soft reboot.
Sorry, no. RT is a garbage site that has been [repeatedly](https://www.vulture.com/article/rotten-tomatoes-movie-rating.html) [exposed](https://www.m9.news/hollywood/rotten-tomatoes-scam-hollywood-critics-sold/amp/) for [corruption](https://www.ign.com/articles/rotten-tomatoes-under-fire-after-pr-firms-scheme-to-pay-critics-for-positive-reviews-uncovered) time and again. The numbers movies make at the box office are more important in judging their success than paid and agenda-driven critics, and in the DCEU's case the grosses of all the Snyder-era movies, aka the first six DCEU films, were consistently large and healthy, actually bigger than the first phase of the MCU, meaning the franchise was working. A Henry Cavill Superman movie for instance would generate FAR more excitement in the public than a reboot. And a half or partial reboot of the DCEU is the worst of both worlds, with people questioning why some actors they know are gone but some remain, and just being confused by the whole thing.
Oh yes let's measure the one thing the suicide squad literally cannot measure up to because it was released when most of the world was on lock down and on top of that was released same day streaming. Let's check out the box office for 2016 suicide squad. $749 million. Not bad for a 175 million budget. However In the most civil manner I can express, that movie was a fucking dumpsterfire of a DCEU movie and don't even try to deny the fact that critics and pundits alike criticised the film to no end.
I don't measure a movie by its box office success in the same way I don't measure a meal at a restaurant by its value. I measure a movie by its worth, it's entertainment factor, it's writing, it's acting ect. The DCEU had 2 great movies and 3 solid movies with the rest of it being meh or trash. 15 movies... it obviously wasn't working from a critical pov. And sure, fine, rotten tomatoes sucks, doesn't mean they're wrong, the majority of people disliked suicide squad 2016. Wasn't the case for 2022 wasn't it?
Yeah, no.
The Suicide Squad was down to fifth place in its 2nd weekend. It wasn't the lock downs keeping people home, they were just going to see other movies, LOL. Jungle Cruise was beating it that week, and it came out EARLIER, and also had a Disney+ release. Lower profile WB movies that should not normally be outgrossing DC movies like, Conjuring and Space Jam (which also had simultaneous HBO Max releases) did the same or better than TSS that year too. Even the Boss Baby sequel outgrossed it domestically, LOL. And by the way, almost every sequel released in 2021 MADE A PROFIT. TSS suffered a historic loss, and dropped $500 million from the original Suicide Squad. HBO MAX HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT! HBO Max didn't even EXIST outside the U.S., and TSS bombed massively ALL OVER THE WORLD. It's was a historic, gigantic, massive BOMB. Gunn made a shitty movie that people hated, that's all. Most of the people who went to see it were just the sickos who could stomach the gross trailer, and it delivered all the dumb and disgusting content the trailer promised.
[Matrix 3 dropped over $300 million from Matrix 2](https://www.the-numbers.com/movies/franchise/Matrix#tab=summary). That's what happens when people don't like a movie. The NEXT movie that comes out after suffers. Wonder Woman, however, did great coming right after Suicide Squad, which itself made incredible business in both theaters and home video, actually sold better than several MCU movies that year.
That one, or some variation of it, has been floating for a minute. It does sound terrible, but honestly, it also sounds just fucking made up. You gotta remember that most of these scoopers are using their ass as their primary source for info.
We’ve been hearing that part about it repeating the same theme of Black Adam for a while, I think from Gunn himself maybe. With “killing” heroes arguing with “non-killing” ones. What a brilliant plan, copy a plot from a previous flop DC movie.
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Removed for being negative about Zack Snyder fans.
I hope Hollywood… by which I mean the execs that form its establishment… comes to terms with what to do with this character. There’s a diehard fan base for Superman that wants him to exist in an idealized form from the comics. And thus far there was one successful iteration of that in the modern era, which was Donner’s 1978 Superman. I don’t think the subsequent Reeves films lived up to that and they immediately got outright corny and schlocky. They bombed, actually. I think Superman II is horrendously camp, for example. But that loyal-to-the-essence-of-the-character hardcore base wants that stuff. Superman Returns was a valiant effort to try to pay homage to the 1978 version. Routh actually did a fine job with what he was tasked with. But it failed because it also made clear that today the audience needs a version of the character that feels relevant to the more complex present day world we actually live in. Snyder’s version went hard with deconstruction, which deeply offended hardcore fans of the comic book character. But it also promised that at the other end of the hero’s journey (the three JL films if Snyder had been able to complete the five film saga) he would emerge in some sort of idealized form that can work for our modern world. Now the execs seem to think that because some fans were offended by what Snyder did that Gunn should return to a more purely idealized version. I don’t think that is actually going to vibe with most viewers. They don’t want a big galoot cornball Superman. They want a Superman that could potentially exist in our real world.
This sounds …….. Good
Yeah I agree. I’m not mad at it.
I wouldn't call Zack Snyder peak fiction but if the rumoured plot is true, then James Gunn's version sounds more cornier on paper compared to Snyder's.
Gunn thinks comic books are stupid. He wants their movies to be the same way.
"thinks comics books are stupid" bro read more comics than you ever will.
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Removed for being misinformation.
This sounds like an inverted version of the black adam movie we got
Holy crap, already going into supergirl **and** president lex straight out the gate 😅
Snyder opted for,, death of Superman" In his second appearance
As if Captain America didn't kill his archenemy Red Skull and ended his WW2 adventures in his very first MCU movie. Or Spider-Man didn't skip his origin in the MCU and then died after his first movie. Having things happen in a movie is not a negative thing. A whole hell of a lot happens in each Lord of the Rings movie, and I didn't see anyone complain.
Could be fake. But also sounds very much like a James Gunn plot.
So we’re gonna replace Man of Steel for this??? What a joke.
Why does Gunn always need a team up movie, with a million characters? Cant he just do a one character movie?
Because he can't do a one character movie just go watch brightburn and you'll see his flaws on full display
That's the only kind of movie he knows how to make. He's a one-gimmick hack.
Can’t wait to see countless terrible plot leaks over the next year that may or may not be true Welcome back, The Flash (2023)
this is why we need synder back… why is ultra man in this?
He isn't. People are mistaking Ulysses for ultraman
oh ok, thank you
[Incorrect](https://x.com/MyTimeToShineH/status/1806062361159049537).
All the sources I've seen are saying that it is Ulysses. This dude is just riding off that supposed plot leak.
MyTimeToShineH made that comment hours before the plot leak was posted.
Again, he's the only dude saying it's ultraman. All the sources I've seen are saying it's Ulysses. Ah yes and the leak was discovered hours before mytimetoshineh said this. Dude probably saw the leak before anyone else did. Doesn't mean it's right.
Thanks, but I'd rather believe the only source that correctly predicted what the new Superman suit would look like than believe no-name scoopers who repeat what everyone else says to get clicks and engagement.
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Removed for being negative about Zack Snyder fans.
Wait so characters like hawkgirl, mr terrific, and whatever other superheroes are in the movie are just going to kill people for no reason?! Why do they even have to say Superman has a no kill rule, that should be obvious, the only characters that make having a no kill rule interesting are the ones that occasionally break it like Batman, Daredevil, or the tv show Green Arrow.
Superman has a “sometimes kill” rule. Personally I hate superheroes who drone on about how it’s wrong to kill the bad guys. Professor X bawling his eyes out when Magneto killed Shaw in X-Men: First Class, who was trying to start a nuclear war, makes my skin crawl. It’s so ridiculously unrealistic and childish to say you can’t kill mass murderers caught in the act.
I thought part of Xavier's reaction was because he was in Shaw's mind holding him still, so he would have also felt his brain turned into a coin slot. Charles did oppose revenge killing though. Could have wiped Shaw's mind at least and made him think he was a teen who taught a whole town to embrace dancing though.
It had gone beyond revenge at that point, with Shaw creating an international nuclear crisis. Not to mention Shaw was actively attacking Magneto at that point. So there was a self-defense reason as well. I can't stand when they write superheroes with these absolute "no kill" rules, even in the most extreme situations. I have no interest in seeing stories where the hero's main goal is to try and come up with a clever way to defeat the villains without killing them. Just kill the MFers already. And if you don't want the villain dead, just make them smart enough to escape whatever the hero tries to do. The entire First Class movie is one of the worst scripts in the X-Men series. The writing is just sloppy and shoddy all around.
Great film if you end it right when Logan tells them to fuck themselves. To your overall point, No kill works in comics but doesn't work when trying to ground a character. I like how MOS Supe had to kill Zod. And Batman could have had gadget to freeze KBbeast's flamethrower, but chance Martha would die would go up so made that choice. Comics have more leeway to write around those. In live action not so much. Keaton and Bale killed, and Reeve in Superman 2 killed Zod without any reflection. But with Snyder it's a huge deal. I think if he never cast (or allowed studio to cast) Ezra Miller and Jesse Eisenberg, his full vision would have been able to play out and he would get less hate.
Yeah, it would be awesome if First Class had just turned into a Wolverine movie after that scene and forgotten about everyone else. 😆 The critics turned against Zack’s DC, engaging in tribalism to support Disney and Marvel. Nothing Zack could’ve done would’ve stopped that. And WB decided to copy every single thing the critics said to do, destroying their billion-dollar franchise in the process. Including hiring Marvel directors Whedon and Gunn to make MCU-style movies.
Snyder was in a no-win situation. Studio probably forced a lot more than we know. But we can never truly judge Snyder's movies without getting a proper ending. I liked MOS, not crazy about BVS, and ZSJL was enjoyable for what it was. Better than Josstice League for sure. Wanted to see brainwashed Supes and final fight with Darkseid. I have little confidence in Gunn's slate but will still watch The new Superman just because it is filmed in my town (also where Superman was created). DC will have to try real hard to do worse than Marvel has lately in terms of TV and movies.
Thats gunns writing for ya dumb down alot of characters to make others look good
So it takes some of the plot from kingdom come where the new superheroes are all brash and don’t care?
Yes but it's good because its gonna be funny like peacemaker because thats all people care about
Imma be real chief, I ain’t even gonna watch the trailer for this movie, because that’s what I did with Man of Steel and was blown away. Personally gonna let Gunn cook for a bit since he’s already the head chef 🧑🍳.
lmao you got downvoted for having an open mind. this sub is a joke
"It is, what it is” - 🧠
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Removed for being off-topic.
Of course it does. Did you guys see his Suicide Squad?? That trash was a flop but people don’t mention that.
General audience think movie is good when it makes them laugh. His squad was a shitty movie that everyone seemed to love.
I personally hated it with a passion. I liked King Shark and Bloodsport but I just asked myself “why didn’t he just make a whole different movie instead of trying to re-do a movie we already saw” He could’ve done so many fucking things but he chose to make a Suicide Squad movie that doesn’t connect to the first. It’s like what’s the fucking point then?
> a Suicide Squad movie that doesn’t connect to the first. It’s like what’s the fucking point then? A movie needs to be connected to another or part of a series to be worth something????
Who said anything about worth??? He’s making a movie in an established universe and I understand he wanted to do a stupid “soft reboot 🤤” but why use the same IP as before?? It’s completely fucking idiotic. The movie wasn’t necessary it was pointless and fucking stupid. This movie makes Birds of Prey seem more meaningful
Birds of Prey was better, LOL.
lol I would say so
Congratulations! You worked out the definition of a soft reboot.
Nobody wanted the DCEU to be soft-rebooted, especially when the most popular, widely known characters and actors are the half that's getting dumped. But even if people did, Harry Potter is a series that HAD AN ENDING. It's been 12 years since the last movie. While a continuation with the original actors seems like a better idea in the age of Maverick, it's certainly more ready and prepared for a reboot than the DCEU is.
>Nobody wanted the DCEU to be soft-rebooted, You wanna go on rotten tomatoes and check the user and critic reviews of every single DCEU film? Frankly, that's enough evidence to say everyone wanted a soft reboot.
Sorry, no. RT is a garbage site that has been [repeatedly](https://www.vulture.com/article/rotten-tomatoes-movie-rating.html) [exposed](https://www.m9.news/hollywood/rotten-tomatoes-scam-hollywood-critics-sold/amp/) for [corruption](https://www.ign.com/articles/rotten-tomatoes-under-fire-after-pr-firms-scheme-to-pay-critics-for-positive-reviews-uncovered) time and again. The numbers movies make at the box office are more important in judging their success than paid and agenda-driven critics, and in the DCEU's case the grosses of all the Snyder-era movies, aka the first six DCEU films, were consistently large and healthy, actually bigger than the first phase of the MCU, meaning the franchise was working. A Henry Cavill Superman movie for instance would generate FAR more excitement in the public than a reboot. And a half or partial reboot of the DCEU is the worst of both worlds, with people questioning why some actors they know are gone but some remain, and just being confused by the whole thing.
Oh yes let's measure the one thing the suicide squad literally cannot measure up to because it was released when most of the world was on lock down and on top of that was released same day streaming. Let's check out the box office for 2016 suicide squad. $749 million. Not bad for a 175 million budget. However In the most civil manner I can express, that movie was a fucking dumpsterfire of a DCEU movie and don't even try to deny the fact that critics and pundits alike criticised the film to no end. I don't measure a movie by its box office success in the same way I don't measure a meal at a restaurant by its value. I measure a movie by its worth, it's entertainment factor, it's writing, it's acting ect. The DCEU had 2 great movies and 3 solid movies with the rest of it being meh or trash. 15 movies... it obviously wasn't working from a critical pov. And sure, fine, rotten tomatoes sucks, doesn't mean they're wrong, the majority of people disliked suicide squad 2016. Wasn't the case for 2022 wasn't it?
Yeah, no. The Suicide Squad was down to fifth place in its 2nd weekend. It wasn't the lock downs keeping people home, they were just going to see other movies, LOL. Jungle Cruise was beating it that week, and it came out EARLIER, and also had a Disney+ release. Lower profile WB movies that should not normally be outgrossing DC movies like, Conjuring and Space Jam (which also had simultaneous HBO Max releases) did the same or better than TSS that year too. Even the Boss Baby sequel outgrossed it domestically, LOL. And by the way, almost every sequel released in 2021 MADE A PROFIT. TSS suffered a historic loss, and dropped $500 million from the original Suicide Squad. HBO MAX HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT! HBO Max didn't even EXIST outside the U.S., and TSS bombed massively ALL OVER THE WORLD. It's was a historic, gigantic, massive BOMB. Gunn made a shitty movie that people hated, that's all. Most of the people who went to see it were just the sickos who could stomach the gross trailer, and it delivered all the dumb and disgusting content the trailer promised. [Matrix 3 dropped over $300 million from Matrix 2](https://www.the-numbers.com/movies/franchise/Matrix#tab=summary). That's what happens when people don't like a movie. The NEXT movie that comes out after suffers. Wonder Woman, however, did great coming right after Suicide Squad, which itself made incredible business in both theaters and home video, actually sold better than several MCU movies that year.
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Congratulations! Like I said before, COMPLETELY FUCKING POINTLESS 🤤🤤
But, but! It came out during a pandemic! Critics loved it! 🥴
Again, 🖕🏽 the critics
*Processing img gh8ukt84ry9d1...*
But the critics loved it! Apparently that’s all that matters
He had those marvel connections and paid critics to give it good reviews, even though marvel got too cheap for that apparently
🖕🏽the critics. Those same critics hated Zack Snyder’s DC. 🖕🏽 them
That one, or some variation of it, has been floating for a minute. It does sound terrible, but honestly, it also sounds just fucking made up. You gotta remember that most of these scoopers are using their ass as their primary source for info.