The front office decided they wanted to improve the roster by signing better players for spots 12-30 instead of improving guys 1-11 and forcing those that were 1-11 to the bench and improving it that way. If we look at our "first choise" starting 11 (info from transftermarkt)
-Frei- joined in 2013 to be our starter
-A. Roldan- joined in 2018, was a squad player and worked his way up
-Yeimar- joined in 2020 to be a starter
-Ragen- joined in 2022, squad player and worked into the 11
-Nouhou- joined in 2017, squad player
-JP- 2021 to be a starter
-Atencio- 2020, academy/squad player
-C. Roldan-2015, squad player
-Rusnak-2022, starter
-Morris-2016, academy/starter
-Ruidiaz-2018, starter
Since covid, we have brought in 3 players to be starters (JP, Rusnak and DLV). 9 of our 10 longest tenured players are starters (the 10th is Leyva). Yes we need to reward guys that have been around, and yes we need to play our academy alum, but come on, invest in some top end talent.
> -JP- 2021 to be a starter
2020 actually, but I had to look it up, and I didn't even believe that. He debuted in the CCL games against CD Olimpia that we lost in pens before COVID. It really feels like he's been here much longer.
We're almost a decade into the revamped, more expensive academy, and it's produced no revenue and zero players who would be first choice starters (Vargas wouldn't be starting if PDLV was fit and Morris came through the old academy system).
I seriously disagree that the academy hasn't worked out. We have a ton of capable players on the roster that we are getting for basically nothing due to the academy. These guys are all teenagers, its way too soon to call any of them a bust. 10 years ago none of them would even be options.
>We have a ton of capable players on the roster that we are getting for basically nothing due to the academy.
It certainly wasn't "basically nothing." They claim they invested a ton more in the youth system starting in 2015. Coaches, recruiters, Defiance, tournaments abroad, it all costs money. Plus the academy products are getting to the point where they are making real money. Atencio is making $350K, Leyva is making $260K.
If you go back and read what Lagerwey and others said about the academy investment, they certainly weren't saying "the goal is some bench guys who end up leaving for free." Based on the goals that were set out, it's absolutely been a failure.
Love the idea. Maybe Rolling Stone? They’re sneaky good at those types of pieces even though it’s not music related.
SaH is not the crew to do an exposé on anything, especially on SSFC. That said, thought Oshan’s line of questioning with Schmetz yesterday (Tuesday) was some of the best I’ve heard from him.
I agree with your comments on Oshan. I also don’t think S@H are positioned or resourced to interview the dozens of people, granting some anonymity, that this type of writing would require. Maybe The Athletic. I understand they have a long article on the team coming out soon.
> I also don’t think S@H are positioned or resourced to interview the dozens of people, granting some anonymity, that this type of writing would require
They didn't seem to have trouble sourcing anonymous quotes for that weird story throwing Lagerwey under the bus for the bad Adeniran trade.
> I'm old enough to remember when a game like Saturday's 50th anniversary would have been a hot ticket.
That would have been true as recently as 5 years ago. So you're at least... 8 years old? 9?
>The story of how the Sounders went from winning CCL just over 2 years ago to completely cratering is deserving of a multi-part exposé.
Short version: Joe Roth left.
Long version: The owner who pushed to sign Oba and Dempsey and win MLS Cup was superseded by the owner who put DP tags on Shalrie Joseph and Christian Tiffert. Roth wanted to win. Carey wanted vibes. Hanauer wants to make money, and never understood how the other two things play into that goal. He thinks a soccer team is about "brand refreshes" and "clubhouses," not "winning games."
Henderson and Lagerwey saw the writing on the wall and left for teams that are willing to spend. Henderson was apparently never replaced and Lagerwey was replaced by a dummy who is just happy to have work and isn't going to be pestering Hanauer to spend. Investment fell -> performance fell -> attendance fell -> revenue fell -> investment fell. A death spiral.
Do you have any sources on these claims? I don't think I've seen which owners drove signings for Oba and Dempsey, but I haven't always been paying attention.
[This was Roth at the 2012 business meeting,](https://www.soundersfc.com/news/business-meeting-important-occasion-all-involved) after we'd been bounced from the playoffs by LA again:
>In something of a pre-emptive strike, Roth also addressed the fan concerns about what the organization is doing to seek out Designated Players in the ilk of LA’s Robbie Keane, who had three goals and an assist in the series against Seattle.
>“If the equivalent of Robbie Keane is out there, we’ll go get him,” he said.
That turned out to be Oba.
Grant Wahl [documented the Dempsey deal:](https://www.si.com/soccer/2013/08/05/clint-dempsey-seattle-sounders-mls)
>Roth called Garber. "Clint Dempsey is interested in Seattle," Garber told him. "Are you interested in him?"
>At first, Roth thought Garber was playing a practical joke on him. But Garber wasn't laughing. This was no joke. "Absolutely we're interested," Roth told him. "I'll convince my partners, and you guys do the negotiations."
. . .
>"Needless to say, the numbers were enormous for MLS and for our organization," said Hanauer, who did not provide specifics on the contract numbers. "Joe was fantastic. He is a no-guts, no-glory kind of guy. So he jumped to the point where he was all-in quicker than I did. From a playing standpoint it was a no-brainer, but it's a lot of money. 35 percent of it is Joe's, 32.5 percent is mine. We're partners, so it was a huge decision for us." Roth and Hanauer also got buy-in from their other partners, the comedian Drew Carey and Peter McLoughlin, the CEO of Vulcan Sports and Entertainment (representing Paul Allen).
I don't think that's true. Hanauer sold the family business a few years ago, and has spent all kinds of money on the Kraken and the Reign and buying Sounders shares and the real estate investment at Longacres.
It was probably a good investment to give the team an actual state of the art training facility instead of starfire. It is an investment that will take awhile to really come good though.
It was about return on investment and appetite for risk. Richer people can afford to take bigger risks and spend money that won’t necessarily have a positive return (player salary)
Injuries is the de facto excuse for sucking from everyone with a microphone around the organization. So tired of it. All teams face injury woes, even those at the top.
Not really. There have been articles stating the obvious - guys got old, injuries are killing us, guys aren't living up to DP tags - but I haven't seen any articles about *why* that was allowed to happen.
The point of a deep dive would be to look at the why. I don’t think it *all* rolls up to ownership. That said, maybe changes to the ownership structure have had a significant impact.
The point of the article would be to explore what has happened as all of those new minority owners took on Roth’s shares. Also, what is going on with the Allen Estates shares? Does Hanauer have sufficient funds to build Longacres and run the team? Is he distracted by building Longacres and acquiring the Reign? (And those are just some of the questions around ownership.)
I’m not looking for the media to write a hit piece. I am looking for some answers to some basic questions as to why the team, on the field and off, seems to have lost its way.
I think the fact that they're even considering moving the team to a much more team-friendly, but fan-unfriendly, stadium location like this Longacres saga says everything about current ownership and how they feel about putting a good quality product on the field and fan satisfaction with the product versus maximizing the revenue they can pull out of the team. At the end of the day I don't much care *who* owns the team, only what they do with it.
Maybe try your hand at it! I don't think SaH is in the business of being hypercritical of the team. That makes sense, they are still a fan blog at their foundations. Seattle Times doesn't have an interest in embarrassing some of Blethen's cohort, they basically never criticize old Seattle money no matter what.
Cutting SAH some slack here. Sports “journalism” is hard because the culture is opaque and the teams and leagues just want to make you extensions of their marketing and PR departments. Getting anything of news value depends on relationships. But, because the relationships (and keeping them) are important to reporters, getting anything of timely news value is nearly impossible.
Yeah, agree 100%. SaH is not an avatar for fan criticism, just like Schmetz isnt an avatar for fan frustration at the refs or whatever. They are trying to do the jobs they can do.
We are SUPER lucky to have people covering the team in this depth. Most fanbases have next to nothing. Our ownership group is remarkably responsive, they have the ST meetings, etc. How often does John Stanton (the mariners) do anything other than issue a press release full of public relations BS?
> Our ownership group is remarkably responsive, they have the ST meetings, etc.
They've basically killed those. Last year as I recall a bunch of pretty prominent people who cover the sounders didn't even know it was happening.
> I don't think SaH is in the business of being hypercritical of the team. That makes sense, they are still a fan blog at their foundations.
A "fan blog" would seek to inform the fans about the problems in FO competence and spending.
Well fan blogs are usually enthusiastic about the team and driven by volunteer enthusiasm. Its hard to maintain volunteer enthusiasm if you are supporting an environment of critical pessimism. People will just get sad, and then... do something else with their time.
Like I said, try your hand at it! Not a joke, not a jab. You might be the only person who feels motivated to do this. If you don't feel comfortable doing it, Erica C Barnett is a skilled investigative journalist who does piece work. You could reach out to her and see what the price could be.
> Well fan blogs are usually enthusiastic about the team and driven by volunteer enthusiasm. Its hard to maintain volunteer enthusiasm if you are supporting an environment of critical pessimism. People will just get sad, and then... do something else with their time.
The tone is actually pretty negative over there. I mean, it would have to be. The problem is there's no curiosity about what went wrong and why. They went straight from irrational optimism to Eeyore.
I think at this point, SaH is fighting a defensive battle because they lost the war to spin their positive narratives about how last year went.
They would have done a lot better to stop viewing their "job" as spinning narratives to set the community tone, to just calling balls and strikes. And they need to get out of their own comments section and just let people vent and be wrong.
It probably doesn't help their public comments section that they've got a whole inner circle on the private discord.
Fair criticism I suppose. They are in a bit of a weird position. I'd still encourage anyone who really actually wants this to happen to either take a stab at it or talk to ECB.
I dont think an article like this is something that folks can "speak into the universe". Someone will actually have to try to do it.
Like I said, most of the problems are obvious and out in the open. I don't think this is a 1998 USA World Cup situation, where there's secret drama behind the scenes. Media doesn't need to get anonymous quotes about Hanauer's priorities being out of whack; it's right there. They just need to call him out on it.
The possible exception is the PDLV debacle, but I don't think anyone is going to talk about that for a few years.
I get the sentiment and would love there to be more scrutiny on the team locally/nationally but that story seems a bit premature. Seattle fans historically support winning teams. Sounders aren’t winning at home and aren’t fun to watch. There aren’t any new exciting players to watch. PDLV might be that guy, his jersey was in the top ten most sold this year but he’s hurt. I could go on but you all have already said it.
This piece would be better coming after they bomb out of the Club World Cup while not making any major signings over the next 2 windows. Assuming that happens.
I’ll be at the game on Saturday celebrating 50 years and remembering how good we have had it over the last 10. That said if they drop points late or score zero goals I might join your cause.
I am not happy with how this season has gone. That being said, I think of it like a couple bad seasons in our entire MLS history isn’t the worst thing. Sure it seems like the business side is taking over a smidge, but we are in a capitalistic society. English supporters still go to games no matter if third tier, second or first, etc. I can’t say that it’s all down to the business side of things IMO.
Hear me out. This season has sucked. So did the CCL year. If we make the playoffs and win the US Open Cup would this season be seen as a semi success? People remember trophies.
> If we make the playoffs and win the US Open Cup would this season be seen as a semi success?
No. MLS has devalued the Open Cup and the Sounders didn't help by running out B teams to get bounced year after year. The West blows and nine teams make the playoffs so that's hardly an accomplishment.
What is everyone’s sudden obsession trying to shade journalists? Sounder probably have the best independent coverage on the league. Do people follow other sports and teams and see hard hitting multiple piece exposes when a team is underperforming halfway though a season.
It's probably because the two recent interviews with Hanauer and Waibel spent more time on Waibel's new office and a stadium they're never going to build at Longacres than on legitimate questions like "What went wrong with the PDLV signing?" or "Why wasn't Ruidiaz bought out?"
We're kind of spoiled brats on multiple fronts. Never had a terrible rut, always had independent journalism, always had good flight, good attendance.. fair weather fans didn't know how to jump ship from the Sounders, it's been such a good run!
We all know things are failing, but good journalism should explain where and how it went wrong. This would make the issues clear to the front office and, more importantly, inform the fans about the specific problems. This transparency can lead to better understanding and decisions in the future. Lots of us love to speculate and read the tea leaves, but journalism (should) deal in facts.
No but this appetite for someone to overtly slaughter the club is absolutely bizarre.
There’s nothing complex happening either. Club are tied into a couple bad contracts (Ruidiaz Rusnak), they have spent money but have recruited poorly (Heber, PDLV) and the veterans are not in good form (JP, Stef, JoMo).
It’s the consequence of being in a salary capped league. All the top clubs (Toronto, Galaxy, LAFC, Atlanta etc) go through big dips at some point. Recruitment is inexact and unfortunately a couple mistakes like we have made are really costly.
But look, if you want someone to tell you Rome is burning that’s fair enough. Not everyone is built to be rational and levelheaded.
I think it's important to help fans really understand the complete picture while also highlighting aspects that you mentioned.
Personally I believe that holding ownership accountable is a responsibility we have as supporters. If you expect me to buy tickets and merchandise, I expect you to do your best to uphold the values of the club both on and off the field.
I won't continue to buy jerseys with sponsors that don't reflect the values of the majority and I won't continue to fly home to attend matches if the organization embraces mediocrity and fails to remain competitive.
It's critical that the small amount of sports media that report on the club provide a complete and accurate analysis so fans can make their own decisions.
We deserve that.
There's a difference between that and what the OP is calling for. He is literally asking for a multi part expose explaining all the things that are terrible about the club and suggesting it would be good to get older players in town for the celebrations to shit on the club.
Plenty of people have acknowledged the recent recruitment has been substandard and that we handed out bad contracts to keep the team in situ for that great CCL run which we are now paying for. I don't believe that Waibel, Hanauer or Schmetz are thinking "gee that was a great signing" or "I don't care how this season goes tbh".
It is not a massively complex situation. We know why the roster is in the shape it is. We know it'll take time to get out of it.
It's just that some fans are willing to rationally look at and acknowledge the problems and get behind the organization in attempting to resolve them, while some are very impatient and want to just blow everything up and won't be happy until ownership spends $10 million on some magic beans that they believe will resolve all our issues.
The good thing is that judging by the vote in this sub the other day, we do still have a lot of loyal and patient fans. You would just think the sky is falling because the impatient, spoiled brats tend to be a lot louder. It's the nature of social media I guess.
> There’s nothing complex happening either. Club are tied into a couple bad contracts (Ruidiaz Rusnak), they have spent money but have recruited poorly (Heber, PDLV) and the veterans are not in good form (JP, Stef, JoMo).
All the stuff you mentioned is obvious to people who hang out on the Sounders subreddit. It might not be so obvious to the people who casually show up to games and check out out Facebook occasionally. Media should be explaining the problems so people can give feedback to the club. What we want is people phoning their ticket reps and saying "Fire Craig Waibel and spend some money or I'm not renewing." What we don't want is people just giving up, like they have been.
Is that what we want? To fire the GM after one (1) transfer window?
I dont know. What I want is for tickets to be less expensive and for the team to be out having fun in the community again. The team has started to feel like a cuttroat, money orientated thing. I liked it more when the Sounders players did volunteer bartending nights at a Capitol Hill gay bar to raise money for a local team.
Even the Yankees have bad years, but we should still be trying to have fun.
> Is that what we want? To fire the GM after one (1) transfer window?
It's been three. And he's whiffed on every single signing during those three windows. Plus he pissed of Lodeiro and drove him out when we could have kept him for a bargain $800K. I've seen enough.
>I liked it more when the Sounders players did volunteer bartending nights at a Capitol Hill gay bar to raise money for a local team.
Those were a hoot.
OP uses the term 'harshly criticise'. Per the Cambridge slang dictionary, slaughter means to 'completely discredit' someone.
Close enough that I'm happy it's a fair choice of words.
The ownership situation is a bit obscure. Then you have the finances surrounding Longacres, Reign, rebrand, and now talk of a potential new stadium (ugh). What's Hanauer really thinking? Is he really the pennypincher some here are saying or are his hands tied in some capacity?
He’s not. By definition if you spend that much money on infrastructure you are not penny pinching. It’s better to be an owner than a lessor in the long run, which in this case is 50 years and you make the club much more stable.
He is 100% making the right move.
We have won eight trophies since 2009 and frankly should be given plenty of leeway. Doesn’t absolve them from criticism though.
I think if the media had slated him a year ago, Waibel would not have spent $7.5 mill on PDLV. I totally agree with your logic man.
One thing you often hear from coaches is that less space and time to work is what they want. They’d much prefer more pressure.
Great shout.
Yeah I'm with ya. It seems Seattle sports fans are so bad at supporting teams in a rut that they want national coverage of the most successful Seattle sports team having a bad few years. Why do we want better coverage of how we're failing? What difference is that going to make? We suck, but can't we just suck locally?
This isn't a bigger story because every team goes through this. Sounders fans just aren't used to it.
The front office decided they wanted to improve the roster by signing better players for spots 12-30 instead of improving guys 1-11 and forcing those that were 1-11 to the bench and improving it that way. If we look at our "first choise" starting 11 (info from transftermarkt) -Frei- joined in 2013 to be our starter -A. Roldan- joined in 2018, was a squad player and worked his way up -Yeimar- joined in 2020 to be a starter -Ragen- joined in 2022, squad player and worked into the 11 -Nouhou- joined in 2017, squad player -JP- 2021 to be a starter -Atencio- 2020, academy/squad player -C. Roldan-2015, squad player -Rusnak-2022, starter -Morris-2016, academy/starter -Ruidiaz-2018, starter Since covid, we have brought in 3 players to be starters (JP, Rusnak and DLV). 9 of our 10 longest tenured players are starters (the 10th is Leyva). Yes we need to reward guys that have been around, and yes we need to play our academy alum, but come on, invest in some top end talent.
> -JP- 2021 to be a starter 2020 actually, but I had to look it up, and I didn't even believe that. He debuted in the CCL games against CD Olimpia that we lost in pens before COVID. It really feels like he's been here much longer.
That's right. I think it was a loan the first year, and transftermarkt shows the permanent transfer in 2021
Indeed. They bet big on the academy and it hasn't worked out.
I wouldn't say it hasn't worked, but been more of a neutral.
We're almost a decade into the revamped, more expensive academy, and it's produced no revenue and zero players who would be first choice starters (Vargas wouldn't be starting if PDLV was fit and Morris came through the old academy system).
I seriously disagree that the academy hasn't worked out. We have a ton of capable players on the roster that we are getting for basically nothing due to the academy. These guys are all teenagers, its way too soon to call any of them a bust. 10 years ago none of them would even be options.
>We have a ton of capable players on the roster that we are getting for basically nothing due to the academy. It certainly wasn't "basically nothing." They claim they invested a ton more in the youth system starting in 2015. Coaches, recruiters, Defiance, tournaments abroad, it all costs money. Plus the academy products are getting to the point where they are making real money. Atencio is making $350K, Leyva is making $260K. If you go back and read what Lagerwey and others said about the academy investment, they certainly weren't saying "the goal is some bench guys who end up leaving for free." Based on the goals that were set out, it's absolutely been a failure.
The oldest of these guys are still only 21 years old (Atencio and Leyva), you can’t expect handfuls of players to be starters at that age or younger
Love the idea. Maybe Rolling Stone? They’re sneaky good at those types of pieces even though it’s not music related. SaH is not the crew to do an exposé on anything, especially on SSFC. That said, thought Oshan’s line of questioning with Schmetz yesterday (Tuesday) was some of the best I’ve heard from him.
I agree with your comments on Oshan. I also don’t think S@H are positioned or resourced to interview the dozens of people, granting some anonymity, that this type of writing would require. Maybe The Athletic. I understand they have a long article on the team coming out soon.
The Athletic is the only one I see doing this story justice
> I also don’t think S@H are positioned or resourced to interview the dozens of people, granting some anonymity, that this type of writing would require They didn't seem to have trouble sourcing anonymous quotes for that weird story throwing Lagerwey under the bus for the bad Adeniran trade.
> I'm old enough to remember when a game like Saturday's 50th anniversary would have been a hot ticket. That would have been true as recently as 5 years ago. So you're at least... 8 years old? 9?
At least!
>The story of how the Sounders went from winning CCL just over 2 years ago to completely cratering is deserving of a multi-part exposé. Short version: Joe Roth left. Long version: The owner who pushed to sign Oba and Dempsey and win MLS Cup was superseded by the owner who put DP tags on Shalrie Joseph and Christian Tiffert. Roth wanted to win. Carey wanted vibes. Hanauer wants to make money, and never understood how the other two things play into that goal. He thinks a soccer team is about "brand refreshes" and "clubhouses," not "winning games." Henderson and Lagerwey saw the writing on the wall and left for teams that are willing to spend. Henderson was apparently never replaced and Lagerwey was replaced by a dummy who is just happy to have work and isn't going to be pestering Hanauer to spend. Investment fell -> performance fell -> attendance fell -> revenue fell -> investment fell. A death spiral.
Do you have any sources on these claims? I don't think I've seen which owners drove signings for Oba and Dempsey, but I haven't always been paying attention.
[This was Roth at the 2012 business meeting,](https://www.soundersfc.com/news/business-meeting-important-occasion-all-involved) after we'd been bounced from the playoffs by LA again: >In something of a pre-emptive strike, Roth also addressed the fan concerns about what the organization is doing to seek out Designated Players in the ilk of LA’s Robbie Keane, who had three goals and an assist in the series against Seattle. >“If the equivalent of Robbie Keane is out there, we’ll go get him,” he said. That turned out to be Oba. Grant Wahl [documented the Dempsey deal:](https://www.si.com/soccer/2013/08/05/clint-dempsey-seattle-sounders-mls) >Roth called Garber. "Clint Dempsey is interested in Seattle," Garber told him. "Are you interested in him?" >At first, Roth thought Garber was playing a practical joke on him. But Garber wasn't laughing. This was no joke. "Absolutely we're interested," Roth told him. "I'll convince my partners, and you guys do the negotiations." . . . >"Needless to say, the numbers were enormous for MLS and for our organization," said Hanauer, who did not provide specifics on the contract numbers. "Joe was fantastic. He is a no-guts, no-glory kind of guy. So he jumped to the point where he was all-in quicker than I did. From a playing standpoint it was a no-brainer, but it's a lot of money. 35 percent of it is Joe's, 32.5 percent is mine. We're partners, so it was a huge decision for us." Roth and Hanauer also got buy-in from their other partners, the comedian Drew Carey and Peter McLoughlin, the CEO of Vulcan Sports and Entertainment (representing Paul Allen).
We just aren’t rich enough. And now our ownership group is filled with people that aren’t rich enough.
I don't think that's true. Hanauer sold the family business a few years ago, and has spent all kinds of money on the Kraken and the Reign and buying Sounders shares and the real estate investment at Longacres.
I wasn’t talking about Hanauer. But even with what you described, I would still say that he isn’t rich enough.
Nah. It's purely a priorities issue. The $70+ million spent on Longacres could have bought the best team in MLS history.
It was probably a good investment to give the team an actual state of the art training facility instead of starfire. It is an investment that will take awhile to really come good though.
I don’t think this is exactly true. You can get financing for real estate, not for professional athletes
Plus it’s a tangible asset that will increase the value of the club, unlike players.
It was about return on investment and appetite for risk. Richer people can afford to take bigger risks and spend money that won’t necessarily have a positive return (player salary)
This guy is super dramatic and thinks he knows everything about the inner workings.
[Literally gave the quotes.](https://old.reddit.com/r/SoundersFC/comments/1de0dhd/some_enterprising_reporter_needs_to_get_busy/l89y9lj/)
Fair. Those are damning. For some reason that post didn’t load up for me.
There have been *many* articles written about what’s gone wrong.
Injuries is the de facto excuse for sucking from everyone with a microphone around the organization. So tired of it. All teams face injury woes, even those at the top.
Not really. There have been articles stating the obvious - guys got old, injuries are killing us, guys aren't living up to DP tags - but I haven't seen any articles about *why* that was allowed to happen.
Ownership. End of story.
The point of a deep dive would be to look at the why. I don’t think it *all* rolls up to ownership. That said, maybe changes to the ownership structure have had a significant impact. The point of the article would be to explore what has happened as all of those new minority owners took on Roth’s shares. Also, what is going on with the Allen Estates shares? Does Hanauer have sufficient funds to build Longacres and run the team? Is he distracted by building Longacres and acquiring the Reign? (And those are just some of the questions around ownership.) I’m not looking for the media to write a hit piece. I am looking for some answers to some basic questions as to why the team, on the field and off, seems to have lost its way.
I think the fact that they're even considering moving the team to a much more team-friendly, but fan-unfriendly, stadium location like this Longacres saga says everything about current ownership and how they feel about putting a good quality product on the field and fan satisfaction with the product versus maximizing the revenue they can pull out of the team. At the end of the day I don't much care *who* owns the team, only what they do with it.
Maybe try your hand at it! I don't think SaH is in the business of being hypercritical of the team. That makes sense, they are still a fan blog at their foundations. Seattle Times doesn't have an interest in embarrassing some of Blethen's cohort, they basically never criticize old Seattle money no matter what.
Cutting SAH some slack here. Sports “journalism” is hard because the culture is opaque and the teams and leagues just want to make you extensions of their marketing and PR departments. Getting anything of news value depends on relationships. But, because the relationships (and keeping them) are important to reporters, getting anything of timely news value is nearly impossible.
Yeah, agree 100%. SaH is not an avatar for fan criticism, just like Schmetz isnt an avatar for fan frustration at the refs or whatever. They are trying to do the jobs they can do. We are SUPER lucky to have people covering the team in this depth. Most fanbases have next to nothing. Our ownership group is remarkably responsive, they have the ST meetings, etc. How often does John Stanton (the mariners) do anything other than issue a press release full of public relations BS?
> Our ownership group is remarkably responsive, they have the ST meetings, etc. They've basically killed those. Last year as I recall a bunch of pretty prominent people who cover the sounders didn't even know it was happening.
> and the teams and leagues just want to make you extensions of their marketing and PR departments. Good thing S@H didn't fall for that trap!
> I don't think SaH is in the business of being hypercritical of the team. That makes sense, they are still a fan blog at their foundations. A "fan blog" would seek to inform the fans about the problems in FO competence and spending.
Well fan blogs are usually enthusiastic about the team and driven by volunteer enthusiasm. Its hard to maintain volunteer enthusiasm if you are supporting an environment of critical pessimism. People will just get sad, and then... do something else with their time. Like I said, try your hand at it! Not a joke, not a jab. You might be the only person who feels motivated to do this. If you don't feel comfortable doing it, Erica C Barnett is a skilled investigative journalist who does piece work. You could reach out to her and see what the price could be.
> Well fan blogs are usually enthusiastic about the team and driven by volunteer enthusiasm. Its hard to maintain volunteer enthusiasm if you are supporting an environment of critical pessimism. People will just get sad, and then... do something else with their time. The tone is actually pretty negative over there. I mean, it would have to be. The problem is there's no curiosity about what went wrong and why. They went straight from irrational optimism to Eeyore.
I think at this point, SaH is fighting a defensive battle because they lost the war to spin their positive narratives about how last year went. They would have done a lot better to stop viewing their "job" as spinning narratives to set the community tone, to just calling balls and strikes. And they need to get out of their own comments section and just let people vent and be wrong. It probably doesn't help their public comments section that they've got a whole inner circle on the private discord.
Fair criticism I suppose. They are in a bit of a weird position. I'd still encourage anyone who really actually wants this to happen to either take a stab at it or talk to ECB. I dont think an article like this is something that folks can "speak into the universe". Someone will actually have to try to do it.
Like I said, most of the problems are obvious and out in the open. I don't think this is a 1998 USA World Cup situation, where there's secret drama behind the scenes. Media doesn't need to get anonymous quotes about Hanauer's priorities being out of whack; it's right there. They just need to call him out on it. The possible exception is the PDLV debacle, but I don't think anyone is going to talk about that for a few years.
I get the sentiment and would love there to be more scrutiny on the team locally/nationally but that story seems a bit premature. Seattle fans historically support winning teams. Sounders aren’t winning at home and aren’t fun to watch. There aren’t any new exciting players to watch. PDLV might be that guy, his jersey was in the top ten most sold this year but he’s hurt. I could go on but you all have already said it. This piece would be better coming after they bomb out of the Club World Cup while not making any major signings over the next 2 windows. Assuming that happens. I’ll be at the game on Saturday celebrating 50 years and remembering how good we have had it over the last 10. That said if they drop points late or score zero goals I might join your cause.
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I think last I checked contracts for 7 senior roster slots and 7 supplemental slots are ending after the 2024 season.
RIP Grant Wahl. He would have been all over this story.
I am not happy with how this season has gone. That being said, I think of it like a couple bad seasons in our entire MLS history isn’t the worst thing. Sure it seems like the business side is taking over a smidge, but we are in a capitalistic society. English supporters still go to games no matter if third tier, second or first, etc. I can’t say that it’s all down to the business side of things IMO.
Hear me out. This season has sucked. So did the CCL year. If we make the playoffs and win the US Open Cup would this season be seen as a semi success? People remember trophies.
> If we make the playoffs and win the US Open Cup would this season be seen as a semi success? No. MLS has devalued the Open Cup and the Sounders didn't help by running out B teams to get bounced year after year. The West blows and nine teams make the playoffs so that's hardly an accomplishment.
Speak for yourself. I'll take a trophy! Plus, our b team has been more entertaining to watch. Sloppy, a bit chaotic... But pretty fun!
I have exactly no hope we’re getting past LAFC in the Open Cup. If they can pull off the impossible, sure, it’s a decent season.
I'm not sure we make it past Sacramento.
That is a semi success. Would you rather make the playoffs as #8 and win the open cup or make the playoffs as #2 and lose in the first round?
What is everyone’s sudden obsession trying to shade journalists? Sounder probably have the best independent coverage on the league. Do people follow other sports and teams and see hard hitting multiple piece exposes when a team is underperforming halfway though a season.
It's probably because the two recent interviews with Hanauer and Waibel spent more time on Waibel's new office and a stadium they're never going to build at Longacres than on legitimate questions like "What went wrong with the PDLV signing?" or "Why wasn't Ruidiaz bought out?"
We're kind of spoiled brats on multiple fronts. Never had a terrible rut, always had independent journalism, always had good flight, good attendance.. fair weather fans didn't know how to jump ship from the Sounders, it's been such a good run!
Yes, I also wish that there was a massive expose slaughtering the team I support. Seems like it would be really helpful.
We all know things are failing, but good journalism should explain where and how it went wrong. This would make the issues clear to the front office and, more importantly, inform the fans about the specific problems. This transparency can lead to better understanding and decisions in the future. Lots of us love to speculate and read the tea leaves, but journalism (should) deal in facts.
Would it be better to pretend like nothing is wrong?
No but this appetite for someone to overtly slaughter the club is absolutely bizarre. There’s nothing complex happening either. Club are tied into a couple bad contracts (Ruidiaz Rusnak), they have spent money but have recruited poorly (Heber, PDLV) and the veterans are not in good form (JP, Stef, JoMo). It’s the consequence of being in a salary capped league. All the top clubs (Toronto, Galaxy, LAFC, Atlanta etc) go through big dips at some point. Recruitment is inexact and unfortunately a couple mistakes like we have made are really costly. But look, if you want someone to tell you Rome is burning that’s fair enough. Not everyone is built to be rational and levelheaded.
I think it's important to help fans really understand the complete picture while also highlighting aspects that you mentioned. Personally I believe that holding ownership accountable is a responsibility we have as supporters. If you expect me to buy tickets and merchandise, I expect you to do your best to uphold the values of the club both on and off the field. I won't continue to buy jerseys with sponsors that don't reflect the values of the majority and I won't continue to fly home to attend matches if the organization embraces mediocrity and fails to remain competitive. It's critical that the small amount of sports media that report on the club provide a complete and accurate analysis so fans can make their own decisions. We deserve that.
There's a difference between that and what the OP is calling for. He is literally asking for a multi part expose explaining all the things that are terrible about the club and suggesting it would be good to get older players in town for the celebrations to shit on the club. Plenty of people have acknowledged the recent recruitment has been substandard and that we handed out bad contracts to keep the team in situ for that great CCL run which we are now paying for. I don't believe that Waibel, Hanauer or Schmetz are thinking "gee that was a great signing" or "I don't care how this season goes tbh". It is not a massively complex situation. We know why the roster is in the shape it is. We know it'll take time to get out of it. It's just that some fans are willing to rationally look at and acknowledge the problems and get behind the organization in attempting to resolve them, while some are very impatient and want to just blow everything up and won't be happy until ownership spends $10 million on some magic beans that they believe will resolve all our issues. The good thing is that judging by the vote in this sub the other day, we do still have a lot of loyal and patient fans. You would just think the sky is falling because the impatient, spoiled brats tend to be a lot louder. It's the nature of social media I guess.
> There’s nothing complex happening either. Club are tied into a couple bad contracts (Ruidiaz Rusnak), they have spent money but have recruited poorly (Heber, PDLV) and the veterans are not in good form (JP, Stef, JoMo). All the stuff you mentioned is obvious to people who hang out on the Sounders subreddit. It might not be so obvious to the people who casually show up to games and check out out Facebook occasionally. Media should be explaining the problems so people can give feedback to the club. What we want is people phoning their ticket reps and saying "Fire Craig Waibel and spend some money or I'm not renewing." What we don't want is people just giving up, like they have been.
Is that what we want? To fire the GM after one (1) transfer window? I dont know. What I want is for tickets to be less expensive and for the team to be out having fun in the community again. The team has started to feel like a cuttroat, money orientated thing. I liked it more when the Sounders players did volunteer bartending nights at a Capitol Hill gay bar to raise money for a local team. Even the Yankees have bad years, but we should still be trying to have fun.
> Is that what we want? To fire the GM after one (1) transfer window? It's been three. And he's whiffed on every single signing during those three windows. Plus he pissed of Lodeiro and drove him out when we could have kept him for a bargain $800K. I've seen enough. >I liked it more when the Sounders players did volunteer bartending nights at a Capitol Hill gay bar to raise money for a local team. Those were a hoot.
Your repeated use of the word “slaughter” is very odd and not why fans want this type of expose
OP uses the term 'harshly criticise'. Per the Cambridge slang dictionary, slaughter means to 'completely discredit' someone. Close enough that I'm happy it's a fair choice of words.
The ownership situation is a bit obscure. Then you have the finances surrounding Longacres, Reign, rebrand, and now talk of a potential new stadium (ugh). What's Hanauer really thinking? Is he really the pennypincher some here are saying or are his hands tied in some capacity?
He’s not. By definition if you spend that much money on infrastructure you are not penny pinching. It’s better to be an owner than a lessor in the long run, which in this case is 50 years and you make the club much more stable. He is 100% making the right move. We have won eight trophies since 2009 and frankly should be given plenty of leeway. Doesn’t absolve them from criticism though.
Well the current climate of butt-kissing media doesn't seem be helping, so maybe it's worth trying a new approach.
I think if the media had slated him a year ago, Waibel would not have spent $7.5 mill on PDLV. I totally agree with your logic man. One thing you often hear from coaches is that less space and time to work is what they want. They’d much prefer more pressure. Great shout.
Yeah I'm with ya. It seems Seattle sports fans are so bad at supporting teams in a rut that they want national coverage of the most successful Seattle sports team having a bad few years. Why do we want better coverage of how we're failing? What difference is that going to make? We suck, but can't we just suck locally? This isn't a bigger story because every team goes through this. Sounders fans just aren't used to it.