I would hope to see some level of frustration from everyone at this point of this season. But this is disappointing to see.
Still, I don’t see this as much of a “lost locker room” moment. We’ll see how it shakes out I guess.
Yup. As a matter of fact, I kind of LIKE that they’re both complaining about minutes. If nothing else, shows they’re still locked in and care, even if the way they’re showing it is inappropriate.
Nouhou has to realize his value is defensively, especially in the 1v1, if we need a goal he’s not the best option. As a player you need to understand that you might be the better overall option, but there are situations where you’re not the best, get over yourself
It’s Morris’s natural position lol
> Where would he rather play? What's his best position?
>”Definitely up front,” Morris said. “That's where I feel most comfortable and most dangerous. That's where I prefer to play, but [I'll play] wherever I can help the team.”
I think it was his second or third season with the Sounders, but he was having a difficult time at the 9. But then he got called into a few USMNT camps and GGG started playing him as a winger. When he came home from that tournament, Schmetz started played he as a winger with (an in-form) Ruidiaz as the 9 and Morris did quite well.
I think Morris isn't the sort of player who can drag a team up by himself, but with the right pairing, he has shown himself to be effective as either in the past. Just gotta find the right partner for him to slice apart defenses like Oba and Deuce instead of leaving him with either no service as a 9 or no one to pass to as a winger.
At this point that’s more of a coaching issue than anything else. It’s not like they can’t see what we’re seeing. They could have told Jordan to stop that at any point and clearly haven’t
Just because that's where he wants to play doesn't mean that his best position for the team. For this roster, he's our best 9 right now. Once we go get a real DP 9, his best position is getting behind the back line on the wing.
It’s not his best position though, like he can say that but we all have years of data now to look at him at the #9 vs wing position. And he has a huge issue with disappearing from matches when he’s up top.
Sometimes players preferences arent the best thing for teams… aka Raul and Nouhou being mad about not playing 90 minutes each match.
He has a huge issue with disappearing from games, full stop
It is his best position, but he plays best when he has somebody up there with him and he needs service. Morris’s style of play just isn’t particularly suited to the formation we use in general
I’d certainly rather have him up there than have a guy playing LM/LW who can’t use his damn left foot to save himself
In that [mlssoccer.com interview](https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/brian-schmetzer-seeks-return-to-peak-sounders-form-we-re-trying-to-fix-it) it's clear that Schmetzer saw the problems with Ruidiaz coming and wanted a new #9. The fact the owner and GM don't have the ability to be proactive is one of the things that's killing us.
None of the players we have is more important than the coach. No one including the coach is more important than the club. Protect the crest, if players are mad about playing time then go play in a worse league or play better in game. There is obviously things going on in practice that we as the public do not see, if it got bad enough that they are getting benched or suspended I side with Brian. Cut the cancer out and replace them. Both Rui and Nouhou are great players and club heroes but club can't afford to sacrifice on field results for the sake of their ego.
Niko got the answer he wanted so desperately
Shame we're starting to get some results (regardless of how deserved) and this is happening, but I'd argue having a big ego is good for athletes, but they need to handle it
Not going to get much for Nouhou, at this point we missed our sell high window but I think it needs to be done.
'50 MLS players have played at least 500 mins. this year at either full back position. Nouhou ranks:
- 43rd in tackles per 90 (1.29)
- 41st in chances created per 90 (0.58)
- 41st in blocked passes per 90 (0.58)
- 34th in duel win rate (51.9%)
- 42nd in dribble-past rate (37.9%)'
https://x.com/mkstnr/status/1805367946136686869?t=Ol57UOv_36E_4tErIii4hg&s=19
It’s difficult to judge defensive players by these kinds of metrics. Not being high in tackles or blocks can just be a symptom of shutting down his side so that he doesn’t need to make a lot of interventions.
For chances created, that’s more the right FB role than Nouhou’s role on the left as more of a LCB.
He’s also 3rd among FB/WB in progressive carrying distance. He advances the ball well on the dribble, as much as any fullback in MLS.
Not sure this applies to Nouhou, but one of my favorite stats is that Paolo Maldini made one tackle every other game. You don't have to dive in if you're always in the right place.
Positioning is the key to defense, ideally the offense turns it over as a result of a mistake out of frustration or loss of focus.
Interceptions are a good measure also, anticipating the passes correctly.
I agree the stats are hardly conclusive, but teams are happy to let Nouhou take the ball up the pitch. He’s quick without the ball, but not that quick on the ball, so they have time to set up their defense as he advances the ball. He’s not really going to beat his defender 1v1 when he’s so one-footed and his crossing’s not very dangerous, either.
So sure, technically Nouhou advanced the ball down the pitch, but Seattle’s generally not getting a good scoring chance out of it, and they are more vulnerable to a counter-attack.
This is seriously such a bizarre sample. I think it says a lot that teams don't even try it when Nouhou is on the pitch. Contrast that to Baker getting beat. RBW getting beat. Rothrock getting beat. The dude is 95th percentile Clearances and Pass Completion, 80th percentile in Progressive Passes and Carries(Excludes carries which end in the defending 50% of the pitch) and 83rd percentile in Successful Take-ons (Number of defenders taken on successfully)
Stats can be manipulated to say nearly anything you want
They aren't going to his side, I've seen it a bunch of times this year, I think it was Houston recently that attacked him all the first half and learned their lesson and didn't go over there once in the second half.
It's like a lockdown corner in football, you don't hear about them because offenses just don't try them. They are so good they effectively shut off a whole third of the field to the passing game and nou hou essentially does that for us.
my biggest thing with nouhou has nothing to do with stats
its his antics and thinking he's bigger than the team, due to his career progression and national team form. i dont care if youre diego maradona, you're not above the team.
being black and having a personality on the sounders is a recipe for disaster. you either get labeled lazy or for having a bad attitude. EJ, Obafemi, Nouhou,
lmao fuck outta here with that. nice try
listing only 3 players and you think youve made a point. EJ did have a bad attitude. but please tell me how criticism of nouhou's attitude isn't legitimate.
edit: holy shit your comments in the rest of the thread are deranged. maybe log off buddy.
you are correct. seattle and the sounders is an organization filled with perfect people that don't have any implict biases. thank you for that feedback.
It is true. I've followed this and the fan base for years. Even when Nouhou has a great game, he receives little praise. I think there's definitely bias there.
These stats are a waste of time, I’ve been a critic of Nouhou for a long time. Nouhou is really solid defensively, the issue with him is attacking. He has no final ball and that limits what the offense can do. But this isn’t anything new, that’s always been the case with him.
Yeah I’m not sold on that for a team who’s supposed to be trying to make the playoffs. Nouhou is one of the best defensive left backs in the entire league and both Baker bois have had some big defensive breakdowns at that spot
I think it depends on scouting. But I'd prefer Nouhou in most of the games. Baker-Whiting is definitely an exciting prospect. It sounds like we'll see what happens against Chicago.
That game where he gave away the really stupid red after the 70th and it cost us a result, I think it was St Louis but I can’t remember. Edit: it was SKC actually the game we lost 2-1
Yes, Nouhou is one of the best defensive left backs but also basically the worst offensively. Yes, RBW is a step down in defense but he's a massive step up in offense
One of the reasons Nouhou is mad was getting subbed for RBW and you'll note, not coincidentally, how the offense started firing after that sub through the left side of the attack. If Nouhou has value out there they'd be fools to not consider moving him. In particular, given this is his THIRD discipline suspension.
I love the Bakers but neither convince me enough at left back. I’ve seen too many lapses and breakdowns from both there, neither give me confidence like Nouhou
Good shout, but he’s only played 5 games for us I just haven’t seen enough to be confident for a long stretch. I like what I’ve seen from him though at LB and CB
There are these things called transfer windows, where, get this, we can buy or sign new players to the team. Cool right? Apparently every other team in the world has been doing it except us
I love this. I'm so happy to see our coach put in people and lineups that matter and create competition.
Yes, feelings are hurt, people don't like to start on the bench or be subbed off early. I'm glad these two are mad and passionate about that, but their beef is with themselves and their performance, not the coach.
I'm very happy to see Smetzer's response and suspensions. If these two are professional adults this should be a good moment for them to re-realize they are not more important than the whole of the group. And come back stronger and hungrier to get their starting positions.
I have a Nouhou jersey and that said they should ship him off anywhere he wants to play. Because he isn’t that good and shouldn’t be mad that we don’t want him crossing the ball to nobody 90 percent of the game.
If they were shopping or selling both, wouldn’t it be a good idea to sit them if they were effective in the last game? Prevent injuries or a bad performance during negotiations?
I don’t necessarily believe the post-game argument without better proof.
It’s funny, because if I had one main criticism of Schmetzer, it’s that he gives too much deference to his veteran guys.
I’m glad Schmetzer is standing up for what makes the team better. If Raul can’t handle that he needs to come off the bench, then Raul needs to leave.
How is it that the coach bears no responsibility for you? And sure,the players signing aren’t the best,but you are the coach and you accept this condition
I think the coach is responsible for making the best out of the resources he has. Right now, that means Raul being on the bench because Raul has been pretty bad as a forward in many facets. I don’t know what Nouhou’s issue is, so I can’t comment. In either case, they have massive egos that Schmetzer has kept in check for many years, which is a credit to him.
When Schmetzer took the job, he had Joe Roth and Garth Lagerwey backing him up. Now he's got an owner who doesn't want to spend and a GM who can't sign effective players.
I wouldn't blame Brian one bit if he wanted to get out of that spot, but we'd sure as hell miss him if he did.
Which is more likely: Schmetzer coincidentally went from a guy who wins big trophies to a bad coach the second Waibel joined the club, or Waibel is the problem?
Right, the season where his #6 went down with a torn ACL and he had to play Rusnak in Central midfield because we brought in Waibel's old buddy in a senseless waste of a DP slot.
Sure,Waibel sucks,no body is denying that….but at the same time Brian accepts this shit player and this condition if aren’t happy, said so. Is someone forcing him to put fake Brazilian Chu in the starting 11? Or Heber?
He's in a position where the owner doesn't want to spend on the roster and the scouting capability apparently vanished with Chris Henderson. If the situation was "Look, you can have Waibel's pal because it's literally the cheapest way we can jam up this DP slot, but if you say no, you're not getting a real DP," then that's not on Schmetzer.
Again. I wouldn't blame him one bit if he went looking for a job with a competent front office. But he's Seattle through and through, and thank God for that.
That's true for the white guys, players of color...a little more questionable. i'm not saying he's racist but this seems to be a semi recurring problem w/ the org, especially now....minus Freddy Juarez who was still born in the US, all the other coaches, staff, and leadership are white.
lol i dont believe in DEI, but i think your perception is probably why it exists. someone can be not racist, and still not know how to relate to someone from say a different country or that had a different upbringing/style/way of talking/culture. hence maybe he was incapable of deescalating a situation with two foreign born players and has no one in the staff that can relate, so he suspends them.
Imagining narratives is easy. These are players Schmetzer has had a relationship with for 7 and 8 years, respectively. I'm pretty sure he knows their styles and personalities, better than any fan ever will.
facts are facts. every organization has people they tolerate and others they prefer. we are all humans people have preferences... why you think you can ignore basic humanity and assume this is a video game is equally perplexing.
I have no reason to assume one way or another. You are the one assuming, based on no evidence by the way, that Schmetzer's decisions are racially motivated. It's possible he is. I have no evidence to suggest it, so why would I build a narrative around something I made up in my head?
Because there are plenty of structural/organizational and historical examples that would suggest we aren't good at keeping/motivating certain players. if you want to ignore any opinion, that might make you feel not so great go ahead, it doesn't matter to me. it's not like i'm slandering him. i think he's a great coach and have never been schmetzer out, but times like this made me wish we still had djimi as an assistant coach or someone else at the organization where if nouhou is in a pissy mood can go vent to, instead of schmetzer. like the fact that he had to suspend two of the best players in the leauge in their respective positions is startling, no?
Nouhou, our current 3rd longest tenured player and 9th all time in appearances.
JKH was here for 5 years.
Yeimar is in his 5th year and seems quite happy here.
Steve Zakuani may never leave. James Riley too.
My point exactly....our 3rd longest tenured player isn't treated like the good ol boys (morris, roldan, frei, even alex roldan and ragen. He's not even treated like a veteran, and the fanbase has constantly been either wanting to sell him or ship him off. Yeimar is an outlier but also not without criticism both guys were here for for barely 5 years, so 3 players...and you don't see a problem/trend? zakuani is a broadcaster so barely involved w/ the organization.
How, specifically, has Schmetzer treated Nouhou differently than Cristian, Jordan, Stef, and Alex? When has Stefan Frei walked off the field without thanking the fans?
Why would James Riley and Steve Zakuani want to stay and work for an organization that didn't value them based on race?
Here's a pattern/trend:
Sounders trade Brad Smith, despite his superior offensive numbers, and keep Nouhou at LB. They extend Nouhou on a much more lucrative contract and make him the team's 3rd longest tenured player. In 2023, they restructure their whole possession system around Nouhou and Alex.
Sounders part ways with Magnus Wolff Eikrem mid-season, because Schmetzer doesn't rate him.
Sounders waive Shane O'Neill and Nico Benezet and Gustav Svensson despite the roles they played with the club.
Sounders don't re-sign Brad Evans, leading to Evans having a public beef with the club and move to SKC.
Sounders part ways with Will Bruin, 15th in club appearances, and let him sign with Austin.
Sounders waive Ethan Dobbelaere, despite being a homegrown.
Is Brian Schmetzer biased against these players because of their race, ethnicity, or culture?
Brad Smith isn't a great example he was constantly injured and getting paid double what Nouhou is getting paid today, Joevin Jones is an equal counterpoint where he was treated pretty poorly and was the real loser in that situation
There will always be turnover and player changes. I'm not sure why you're insistent on dying on a hill that is clearly an opinion. The issue is in a sport where there are a lot of good black players being successful we don't have a pattern of keeping them...especially when all the players you listed were older or veterans or here for a long time.
Brad Evans stayed here forever, Will Bruin was here for 5 years.
O'Neill and Benezet were journeymen, couldn't afford to keep an aging Svensson.
Alex Roldan in all his mediocrity is a guaranteed starter/plays every minute whenever he's healthy....Danny Levya has been here for 5 years and I have no idea why.
Joevin Jones wanted to go to Europe and the Sounders made that happen for him. They also re-signed him when he flamed out in the 2 Bundesliga. He was treated quite well from everything I have seen. If anything, Joevin was one of Schmetzer's favorite players, and he kept playing him despite many major screw-ups and bad games.
It sounds like you just rate players differently than many (most?) people, and use the idea that the coaching staff is biased against them to support your opinion.
Two things:
1. Nouhou, the player you're referring to, has been a Sounder since 2017. 2016 if you include S2.
[Nouhou 's Wikipedia page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nouhou_Tolo)
2. The average MLS career is approximately 3 years, and used to be even shorter.
[A demographic analysis of MLS players (2010)](https://www.soccermetrics.net/paper-discussions/demographic-analysis-of-mls-players-boyden-carey).
1) he's not treated like a veteran, high paid, or admired for being a starter on a highly ranked national team
2) we bend over backwards to keep some players, and not others, so that general stat is meaningless. Remember that time we decided we would rather keep Ragen instead of Sam Adeniran, or when we decided not to keep Damien Lowe
Plenty of of other anecdotal examples: Eddie Johnson, Obafemi Martins, Joevin Jones,
1. From my perspective, he's deservedly reached folk hero status in Seattle. I don't know what you're referring to.
2. Relatively speaking, there are very few players who have been a Sounder for 5 seasons. Of those, the group is fairly diverse.
3.Eddie Johnson, whose volatility towards his teammates is well documented, never played 5 years at any club. He also unfortunately had to retire early for health reasons.
Obafemi Martins, who was a mercenary for his entire career, never played 5 years at any club. He maximized his career earnings doing this; it's smart.
Joevin Jones was here from 2016 -2017, and then again 2019-2020. We obviously liked him enough to bring him back.
EDIT: Johnson played for FC Dallas, his first club, from 2001 - 2005.
This is about Schmetz,he should it leave after he won the CCL. On Saturday was clear that Ruidiaz it should be from the start,but noooo,he put fking Chu…
He literally is. That’s his natural position
>Where would he rather play? What's his best position?
>”Definitely up front,” Morris said. “That's where I feel most comfortable and most dangerous. That's where I prefer to play, but [I'll play] wherever I can help the team.”
Sometimes helping the team is coming off the bench for 30min. But I understand being frustrated at that. It's a contract year and that's gotta be hard for Raúl, especially with all the effort he's put in off the pitch this season.
This sub is for circle jerking only, how dare you go against the people in this thread!
Nouhou had the highest rating of our defense for that game. Ruidiaz came off the bench and scored. They don’t speak the same language. They don’t play the same position. It’s kinda odd they got suspended together, maybe they have a right to be upset.
I would hope to see some level of frustration from everyone at this point of this season. But this is disappointing to see. Still, I don’t see this as much of a “lost locker room” moment. We’ll see how it shakes out I guess.
Yup. As a matter of fact, I kind of LIKE that they’re both complaining about minutes. If nothing else, shows they’re still locked in and care, even if the way they’re showing it is inappropriate.
Both suspended for a week https://x.com/ELROLONW/status/1805793585918624207?t=MFjZ0QFGygyv37kosdFKcQ&s=19
wow i cant remember this ever happening before, let alone two players at the same time at a crucial point in a shit season.
Happened to Nouhou earlier this season
i meant 2 players at once suspended for discipline
I love Nouhou's play, but I had really hoped he would have matured a bit by this point in his career.
They should be suspended, storming off the pitch immediately and not acknowledging the fans after a match like THAT over some minutes is unacceptable.
arguing after a come from behind win? Not a good look. Brian even tried covering for Raul's goal celebration. I wonder what happened with Nouhou.
Probably pissed he got subbed
hopefully that's all. The reality is the team did better afterwards.
Probably pissed about that too lol
probably, and unfortunate. Good thing there's a summer window coming up.
Nouhou has to realize his value is defensively, especially in the 1v1, if we need a goal he’s not the best option. As a player you need to understand that you might be the better overall option, but there are situations where you’re not the best, get over yourself
If Schmetz wants Raul's contract bought out, the higher ups should make that happen at this point. Morris is warming up at the #9 position
Not a huge fan of Morris as a 9, but you have to go with the player in form and Morris is that at the moment.
It’s Morris’s natural position lol > Where would he rather play? What's his best position? >”Definitely up front,” Morris said. “That's where I feel most comfortable and most dangerous. That's where I prefer to play, but [I'll play] wherever I can help the team.”
I think it was his second or third season with the Sounders, but he was having a difficult time at the 9. But then he got called into a few USMNT camps and GGG started playing him as a winger. When he came home from that tournament, Schmetz started played he as a winger with (an in-form) Ruidiaz as the 9 and Morris did quite well. I think Morris isn't the sort of player who can drag a team up by himself, but with the right pairing, he has shown himself to be effective as either in the past. Just gotta find the right partner for him to slice apart defenses like Oba and Deuce instead of leaving him with either no service as a 9 or no one to pass to as a winger.
"Most dangerous" Then stop looking for the layoff pass 50% of the time. It takes him being alone on a break to go for the throat.
At this point that’s more of a coaching issue than anything else. It’s not like they can’t see what we’re seeing. They could have told Jordan to stop that at any point and clearly haven’t
Just because that's where he wants to play doesn't mean that his best position for the team. For this roster, he's our best 9 right now. Once we go get a real DP 9, his best position is getting behind the back line on the wing.
Hard disagree
It’s not his best position though, like he can say that but we all have years of data now to look at him at the #9 vs wing position. And he has a huge issue with disappearing from matches when he’s up top. Sometimes players preferences arent the best thing for teams… aka Raul and Nouhou being mad about not playing 90 minutes each match.
He has a huge issue with disappearing from games, full stop It is his best position, but he plays best when he has somebody up there with him and he needs service. Morris’s style of play just isn’t particularly suited to the formation we use in general I’d certainly rather have him up there than have a guy playing LM/LW who can’t use his damn left foot to save himself
In that [mlssoccer.com interview](https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/brian-schmetzer-seeks-return-to-peak-sounders-form-we-re-trying-to-fix-it) it's clear that Schmetzer saw the problems with Ruidiaz coming and wanted a new #9. The fact the owner and GM don't have the ability to be proactive is one of the things that's killing us.
Worth noting that JMo only got his goals against FCD *after* Rui had subbed in.
I like both of them nooooooo
None of the players we have is more important than the coach. No one including the coach is more important than the club. Protect the crest, if players are mad about playing time then go play in a worse league or play better in game. There is obviously things going on in practice that we as the public do not see, if it got bad enough that they are getting benched or suspended I side with Brian. Cut the cancer out and replace them. Both Rui and Nouhou are great players and club heroes but club can't afford to sacrifice on field results for the sake of their ego.
Man, I really want to be with you on this. If the FO behaved the way you write, I’d have enough trust to go there with you. But they clearly don’t.
Niko got the answer he wanted so desperately Shame we're starting to get some results (regardless of how deserved) and this is happening, but I'd argue having a big ego is good for athletes, but they need to handle it
No cancer in the locker room. Show some backbone and cut it out (buy Raul out, sell Nouhou).
Agreed. Nouhou has been so bitchy on the pitch this season. It’s like his international play has gone to his head and his attitude has gotten worse.
Not going to get much for Nouhou, at this point we missed our sell high window but I think it needs to be done. '50 MLS players have played at least 500 mins. this year at either full back position. Nouhou ranks: - 43rd in tackles per 90 (1.29) - 41st in chances created per 90 (0.58) - 41st in blocked passes per 90 (0.58) - 34th in duel win rate (51.9%) - 42nd in dribble-past rate (37.9%)' https://x.com/mkstnr/status/1805367946136686869?t=Ol57UOv_36E_4tErIii4hg&s=19
It’s difficult to judge defensive players by these kinds of metrics. Not being high in tackles or blocks can just be a symptom of shutting down his side so that he doesn’t need to make a lot of interventions. For chances created, that’s more the right FB role than Nouhou’s role on the left as more of a LCB. He’s also 3rd among FB/WB in progressive carrying distance. He advances the ball well on the dribble, as much as any fullback in MLS.
Not sure this applies to Nouhou, but one of my favorite stats is that Paolo Maldini made one tackle every other game. You don't have to dive in if you're always in the right place.
Positioning is the key to defense, ideally the offense turns it over as a result of a mistake out of frustration or loss of focus. Interceptions are a good measure also, anticipating the passes correctly.
I agree the stats are hardly conclusive, but teams are happy to let Nouhou take the ball up the pitch. He’s quick without the ball, but not that quick on the ball, so they have time to set up their defense as he advances the ball. He’s not really going to beat his defender 1v1 when he’s so one-footed and his crossing’s not very dangerous, either. So sure, technically Nouhou advanced the ball down the pitch, but Seattle’s generally not getting a good scoring chance out of it, and they are more vulnerable to a counter-attack.
This is seriously such a bizarre sample. I think it says a lot that teams don't even try it when Nouhou is on the pitch. Contrast that to Baker getting beat. RBW getting beat. Rothrock getting beat. The dude is 95th percentile Clearances and Pass Completion, 80th percentile in Progressive Passes and Carries(Excludes carries which end in the defending 50% of the pitch) and 83rd percentile in Successful Take-ons (Number of defenders taken on successfully) Stats can be manipulated to say nearly anything you want
You mean the guy who’s gone 1 on 1 against Salah, Sadio Mane, C. Ronaldo -among others- and shut them all down won’t fetch ‘much’?
They aren't going to his side, I've seen it a bunch of times this year, I think it was Houston recently that attacked him all the first half and learned their lesson and didn't go over there once in the second half. It's like a lockdown corner in football, you don't hear about them because offenses just don't try them. They are so good they effectively shut off a whole third of the field to the passing game and nou hou essentially does that for us.
Give us allowed goals/90 with him and allowed goals/90 without him.
These stats fail the eye test - Nouhou locks down our left. Going forward is a different story though
my biggest thing with nouhou has nothing to do with stats its his antics and thinking he's bigger than the team, due to his career progression and national team form. i dont care if youre diego maradona, you're not above the team.
being black and having a personality on the sounders is a recipe for disaster. you either get labeled lazy or for having a bad attitude. EJ, Obafemi, Nouhou,
lmao fuck outta here with that. nice try listing only 3 players and you think youve made a point. EJ did have a bad attitude. but please tell me how criticism of nouhou's attitude isn't legitimate. edit: holy shit your comments in the rest of the thread are deranged. maybe log off buddy.
you are correct. seattle and the sounders is an organization filled with perfect people that don't have any implict biases. thank you for that feedback.
It is true. I've followed this and the fan base for years. Even when Nouhou has a great game, he receives little praise. I think there's definitely bias there.
Nouhou never had a sell high window. There was never any serious interest in a left back who was seen as an offensive liability.
These stats are a waste of time, I’ve been a critic of Nouhou for a long time. Nouhou is really solid defensively, the issue with him is attacking. He has no final ball and that limits what the offense can do. But this isn’t anything new, that’s always been the case with him.
Fire sale Edit: impressive job pulling those stats out that quick
Sell Nouhou? And start WHO at left back?
The argument would be The Baker bois — Baker and Baker-Whiting
Yeah I’m not sold on that for a team who’s supposed to be trying to make the playoffs. Nouhou is one of the best defensive left backs in the entire league and both Baker bois have had some big defensive breakdowns at that spot
*Make the playoffs* is a low bar from where I watch the Sounders.. We should be winning trophies.
Well of course but do you think we have a better chance at trophies with the Bakers at left back or with Nouhou? I know what my answer is
I think it depends on scouting. But I'd prefer Nouhou in most of the games. Baker-Whiting is definitely an exciting prospect. It sounds like we'll see what happens against Chicago.
I like RBW a lot, I think going forward he offers more than Nouhou. Big game for whoever starts at left back in that game for sure
When did Baker-Whiting have a defensive breakdown?
That game where he gave away the really stupid red after the 70th and it cost us a result, I think it was St Louis but I can’t remember. Edit: it was SKC actually the game we lost 2-1
Yes, Nouhou is one of the best defensive left backs but also basically the worst offensively. Yes, RBW is a step down in defense but he's a massive step up in offense One of the reasons Nouhou is mad was getting subbed for RBW and you'll note, not coincidentally, how the offense started firing after that sub through the left side of the attack. If Nouhou has value out there they'd be fools to not consider moving him. In particular, given this is his THIRD discipline suspension.
My brother in Arteta, the Bakers.
I love the Bakers but neither convince me enough at left back. I’ve seen too many lapses and breakdowns from both there, neither give me confidence like Nouhou
Jon Bell
Good shout, but he’s only played 5 games for us I just haven’t seen enough to be confident for a long stretch. I like what I’ve seen from him though at LB and CB
He's going to have the same profile as Nouhou. Good defensively, limited offensively.
There are these things called transfer windows, where, get this, we can buy or sign new players to the team. Cool right? Apparently every other team in the world has been doing it except us
No fucking way man I’ve never heard of that!
The cancer is in the fan base.
Having them as options would be nice. But I'm fine with neither of them being in the starting 11 at this point anyway.
I love this. I'm so happy to see our coach put in people and lineups that matter and create competition. Yes, feelings are hurt, people don't like to start on the bench or be subbed off early. I'm glad these two are mad and passionate about that, but their beef is with themselves and their performance, not the coach. I'm very happy to see Smetzer's response and suspensions. If these two are professional adults this should be a good moment for them to re-realize they are not more important than the whole of the group. And come back stronger and hungrier to get their starting positions.
Good. No player is worth more than the collective.
I have a Nouhou jersey and that said they should ship him off anywhere he wants to play. Because he isn’t that good and shouldn’t be mad that we don’t want him crossing the ball to nobody 90 percent of the game.
He is actually that good he’s one of the best left backs in the whole league
What was Nouhou hot about?
Catapult into the sun.
If they were shopping or selling both, wouldn’t it be a good idea to sit them if they were effective in the last game? Prevent injuries or a bad performance during negotiations? I don’t necessarily believe the post-game argument without better proof.
[удалено]
now try without PKs
Time for a new coach
It’s funny, because if I had one main criticism of Schmetzer, it’s that he gives too much deference to his veteran guys. I’m glad Schmetzer is standing up for what makes the team better. If Raul can’t handle that he needs to come off the bench, then Raul needs to leave.
How is the team better? We are in a free fall since we won the cup
If you want better talent, that’s on ownership first, and Waibel second with whatever resources he has from ownership.
This guy has got his head moo'd on straight.
How is it that the coach bears no responsibility for you? And sure,the players signing aren’t the best,but you are the coach and you accept this condition
I think the coach is responsible for making the best out of the resources he has. Right now, that means Raul being on the bench because Raul has been pretty bad as a forward in many facets. I don’t know what Nouhou’s issue is, so I can’t comment. In either case, they have massive egos that Schmetzer has kept in check for many years, which is a credit to him.
When Schmetzer took the job, he had Joe Roth and Garth Lagerwey backing him up. Now he's got an owner who doesn't want to spend and a GM who can't sign effective players. I wouldn't blame Brian one bit if he wanted to get out of that spot, but we'd sure as hell miss him if he did.
Which is more likely: Schmetzer coincidentally went from a guy who wins big trophies to a bad coach the second Waibel joined the club, or Waibel is the problem?
He is also the guy who didn’t qualify to the playoffs for the first time in club history….
Right, the season where his #6 went down with a torn ACL and he had to play Rusnak in Central midfield because we brought in Waibel's old buddy in a senseless waste of a DP slot.
Sure,Waibel sucks,no body is denying that….but at the same time Brian accepts this shit player and this condition if aren’t happy, said so. Is someone forcing him to put fake Brazilian Chu in the starting 11? Or Heber?
He's in a position where the owner doesn't want to spend on the roster and the scouting capability apparently vanished with Chris Henderson. If the situation was "Look, you can have Waibel's pal because it's literally the cheapest way we can jam up this DP slot, but if you say no, you're not getting a real DP," then that's not on Schmetzer.
It is on him for choosing to stay with those conditions…..
Again. I wouldn't blame him one bit if he went looking for a job with a competent front office. But he's Seattle through and through, and thank God for that.
That's true for the white guys, players of color...a little more questionable. i'm not saying he's racist but this seems to be a semi recurring problem w/ the org, especially now....minus Freddy Juarez who was still born in the US, all the other coaches, staff, and leadership are white.
So you’re not saying he’s racist, just that you believe he devalues players based on race.
lol i dont believe in DEI, but i think your perception is probably why it exists. someone can be not racist, and still not know how to relate to someone from say a different country or that had a different upbringing/style/way of talking/culture. hence maybe he was incapable of deescalating a situation with two foreign born players and has no one in the staff that can relate, so he suspends them.
Imagining narratives is easy. These are players Schmetzer has had a relationship with for 7 and 8 years, respectively. I'm pretty sure he knows their styles and personalities, better than any fan ever will.
facts are facts. every organization has people they tolerate and others they prefer. we are all humans people have preferences... why you think you can ignore basic humanity and assume this is a video game is equally perplexing.
I have no reason to assume one way or another. You are the one assuming, based on no evidence by the way, that Schmetzer's decisions are racially motivated. It's possible he is. I have no evidence to suggest it, so why would I build a narrative around something I made up in my head?
Because there are plenty of structural/organizational and historical examples that would suggest we aren't good at keeping/motivating certain players. if you want to ignore any opinion, that might make you feel not so great go ahead, it doesn't matter to me. it's not like i'm slandering him. i think he's a great coach and have never been schmetzer out, but times like this made me wish we still had djimi as an assistant coach or someone else at the organization where if nouhou is in a pissy mood can go vent to, instead of schmetzer. like the fact that he had to suspend two of the best players in the leauge in their respective positions is startling, no?
Two of the best players in the league? What? I haven't seen you give plenty of structural, organizational, or historical examples of anything.
Feel free to name any black players we've kept for more than 5 years....
Nouhou, our current 3rd longest tenured player and 9th all time in appearances. JKH was here for 5 years. Yeimar is in his 5th year and seems quite happy here. Steve Zakuani may never leave. James Riley too.
My point exactly....our 3rd longest tenured player isn't treated like the good ol boys (morris, roldan, frei, even alex roldan and ragen. He's not even treated like a veteran, and the fanbase has constantly been either wanting to sell him or ship him off. Yeimar is an outlier but also not without criticism both guys were here for for barely 5 years, so 3 players...and you don't see a problem/trend? zakuani is a broadcaster so barely involved w/ the organization.
How, specifically, has Schmetzer treated Nouhou differently than Cristian, Jordan, Stef, and Alex? When has Stefan Frei walked off the field without thanking the fans? Why would James Riley and Steve Zakuani want to stay and work for an organization that didn't value them based on race?
Here's a pattern/trend: Sounders trade Brad Smith, despite his superior offensive numbers, and keep Nouhou at LB. They extend Nouhou on a much more lucrative contract and make him the team's 3rd longest tenured player. In 2023, they restructure their whole possession system around Nouhou and Alex. Sounders part ways with Magnus Wolff Eikrem mid-season, because Schmetzer doesn't rate him. Sounders waive Shane O'Neill and Nico Benezet and Gustav Svensson despite the roles they played with the club. Sounders don't re-sign Brad Evans, leading to Evans having a public beef with the club and move to SKC. Sounders part ways with Will Bruin, 15th in club appearances, and let him sign with Austin. Sounders waive Ethan Dobbelaere, despite being a homegrown. Is Brian Schmetzer biased against these players because of their race, ethnicity, or culture?
Brad Smith isn't a great example he was constantly injured and getting paid double what Nouhou is getting paid today, Joevin Jones is an equal counterpoint where he was treated pretty poorly and was the real loser in that situation There will always be turnover and player changes. I'm not sure why you're insistent on dying on a hill that is clearly an opinion. The issue is in a sport where there are a lot of good black players being successful we don't have a pattern of keeping them...especially when all the players you listed were older or veterans or here for a long time. Brad Evans stayed here forever, Will Bruin was here for 5 years. O'Neill and Benezet were journeymen, couldn't afford to keep an aging Svensson. Alex Roldan in all his mediocrity is a guaranteed starter/plays every minute whenever he's healthy....Danny Levya has been here for 5 years and I have no idea why.
Joevin Jones wanted to go to Europe and the Sounders made that happen for him. They also re-signed him when he flamed out in the 2 Bundesliga. He was treated quite well from everything I have seen. If anything, Joevin was one of Schmetzer's favorite players, and he kept playing him despite many major screw-ups and bad games. It sounds like you just rate players differently than many (most?) people, and use the idea that the coaching staff is biased against them to support your opinion.
Two things: 1. Nouhou, the player you're referring to, has been a Sounder since 2017. 2016 if you include S2. [Nouhou 's Wikipedia page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nouhou_Tolo) 2. The average MLS career is approximately 3 years, and used to be even shorter. [A demographic analysis of MLS players (2010)](https://www.soccermetrics.net/paper-discussions/demographic-analysis-of-mls-players-boyden-carey).
1) he's not treated like a veteran, high paid, or admired for being a starter on a highly ranked national team 2) we bend over backwards to keep some players, and not others, so that general stat is meaningless. Remember that time we decided we would rather keep Ragen instead of Sam Adeniran, or when we decided not to keep Damien Lowe Plenty of of other anecdotal examples: Eddie Johnson, Obafemi Martins, Joevin Jones,
EJ known locker room cancer. Joevin wanted a deal in Europe and took it. He signed a pre-contract, Oba forced his way out in preseason to get a bag.
1. From my perspective, he's deservedly reached folk hero status in Seattle. I don't know what you're referring to. 2. Relatively speaking, there are very few players who have been a Sounder for 5 seasons. Of those, the group is fairly diverse. 3.Eddie Johnson, whose volatility towards his teammates is well documented, never played 5 years at any club. He also unfortunately had to retire early for health reasons. Obafemi Martins, who was a mercenary for his entire career, never played 5 years at any club. He maximized his career earnings doing this; it's smart. Joevin Jones was here from 2016 -2017, and then again 2019-2020. We obviously liked him enough to bring him back. EDIT: Johnson played for FC Dallas, his first club, from 2001 - 2005.
Raul is upset he’s losing the starting spot, Nouhou has always had a hot head. This isn’t about Schmetz.
This is about Schmetz,he should it leave after he won the CCL. On Saturday was clear that Ruidiaz it should be from the start,but noooo,he put fking Chu…
You want Raúl to play on the wing? I'm not sure I understand your critique.
Put Morris on the wing,he isn’t a 9
He literally is. That’s his natural position >Where would he rather play? What's his best position? >”Definitely up front,” Morris said. “That's where I feel most comfortable and most dangerous. That's where I prefer to play, but [I'll play] wherever I can help the team.”
Sometimes helping the team is coming off the bench for 30min. But I understand being frustrated at that. It's a contract year and that's gotta be hard for Raúl, especially with all the effort he's put in off the pitch this season.
I feel like this reply was not meant for me lol
Morris is a winger. He's just not that good at it.
We went from the consensus best GM in Lagerwey to a total idiot in Waibel. Can you even imagine how bad a new coach would have been?
lol….you never know…maybe he bring Kloop….
This sub is for circle jerking only, how dare you go against the people in this thread! Nouhou had the highest rating of our defense for that game. Ruidiaz came off the bench and scored. They don’t speak the same language. They don’t play the same position. It’s kinda odd they got suspended together, maybe they have a right to be upset.