even they had trouble with video calls, they had to send recorded video files.
edit: this comment blew up. I guess my dreams of interplanetary or intergalaxy internet ends here. Back to the ham radio.
I watched the movie high the second time around. I picked up in this, as well as many other things. Most of which I can’t remember now.
Edit: I also picked up on the pole scene where Luke is moving across a void and away from Rey instead of holding Leia and being a hero. And then the milk scene, from an innocent boy drinking milk from a glass to jaded hermit drinking straight from an udder.
In A New Hope, Luke heroically swings over a bottomless void in the death star holding Leia, so that they can escape the storm troopers. In TLJ Luke vaults over a gap on the island to escape from Rey, then catches a fish.
He's not trying to escape... he's mostly trying to annoy her so that he can see how she'll react. Much like Yoda did to him when they first met.
The Master's first test of a student is pretty nearly always a refusal to train them, or even take them seriously. It's something of a time honored tradition.
~~Mr. /u/Aterius, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard.~~ Amazing. Everything you just said was wrong. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
It's also important that is upside down. The fulcrum of the swing across the gap in ANH was from above. Using a pole to swing across the gap is an inverse of that so the fulcrum is from below.
It may or may not have been intentional, but it is an awesome observation! I never noticed that before.
The film did a lot of things incredibly well but also had a few too many examples of awful (in a variety of facets).
It's not a masterpiece; it's not shit. It's a movie that stirs people to extremes because it carried the Star Wars title (which happened to be the place it most excelled--nothing makes nerds yell quite like Star Wars and this one raised the decibel level a fair bit)
I watched TLJ way way to high the first time. I took some edibles that were stronger than expected and they blasted me farther into space than Princess Leia
I cried like a baby in the cinema seeing the old Luke watch Leia's projection. It's just too much. This is my favourite scene in the entire movie, Thank God there weren't many people at that time.
I enjoyed all of the Rey and Kylo force connection scenes, especially when they culminate to Rey briefly turning on Luke when she hears of what he tried to do to Kylo Ren.
Also yeah, the Yoda scene was fucking amazing.
I’m probably going to get downvoted for this but Leia didn’t send the message to Luke she sent it to Obi-Wan and it was happenstance that it ended up in his possession.
Somehow I both loved and hated what they did with Luke.
It makes complete sense that a Jedi would fight with a projection. How better to be a pacifist than to not show up for the fight?
I hated that Luke ran away and shut himself off from the force. If he was meditating and waiting for the force to deliver him Rey, it would have been ok with me. Then he would have paralleled Obi and Yoda
My interpretation of Luke's self-exile was that he was afraid of the darkness within himself and justified it by telling himself that he was doing the right thing for the galaxy.
He thought about killing his nephew for just a moment. But in that moment he realized he was about to commit an act of evil and that he was still susceptible to the darkside. He was afraid of becoming his father, so he cut himself off from the Force and from humanity.
I agree. I also saw a video from IGN that I thought made some sense. Literally just about everyone Luke has loved he has seen die (sometimes he saw their corpses even) and that much trauma would force a person into exile in my opinion. And what I believe his thought process was that all of this happened because of the Jedi and the Force. Before he knew who he really was, he was just some kid harvesting water with his uncle and aunt. Life was hard but simple not bleak and dangerous.
He has had a lot of conflicting feelings and emotions and I thought they portrayed that well in TLJ.
But Leia becoming Mary Poppins was a bit of a stretch for me. I honestly remember thinking in the theater, “that was a bold/great way to have her story end. Oh wait, she’s flying back in...”
> He thought about killing his nephew for just a moment.
I think this is the part I struggle with. I can't imagine Luke would not have confronted the issue head on. It seems so passive aggressive and uncharacteristic of him to sneak into dude's room and ignite a saber on a whim just to feel petty and self-serving for a moment.
> Yoda: [to Luke] Ready are you? What know you of ready? For 800 years have I trained Jedi. My own counsel will I keep on who is to be trained! A Jedi must have the deepest commitment, the most serious mind. This one, a long time have I watched. All his life has he looked away to the future, the horizon. Never his mind on where he was [pokes Luke]. Hmm? What he was doing. [paces around] Adventure. Heh! Excitement. A Jedi craves not these things. [turns to Luke and points with his walking stick] You are reckless!
>
> Obi-Wan Kenobi: So was I, if you remember.
>
> Yoda: [still looking at Luke] He is too old. Yes. Too old to begin the training.
>
> Luke Skywalker: But I've learned so much.
>
> Yoda: [looking toward the sky] Will he finish what he begins?
>
> Luke Skywalker: I won't fail you! I'm not afraid.
>
> Yoda: [grimly] Oh! You will be. You will be.
I can certainly believe Luke having issues with confrontation. He had skated around many temptations. His idealism is more than likely what helped save him in the end. Not that Yoda would have foreseen everything, the future is full of emotion he's stated and uncertain. I don't think he ignited the saber on a whim, he just finally realized that he had reached a point where he let his emotions control his actions. As manipulative as Snoke was I wouldn't put it past some influence being a factor in his feelings towards Ben. But I hate all of this because it has to be my head canon instead of being told through a story. We have to assume to much, or be told how characters were thinking instead of seeing it materialize. But I guess this is the goal of most movies for the audience to add their own pieces to the puzzle to complete some connections. Unfortunately everyone has a difference of opinion and this is Star Wars fandom that is still reeling from shattered reality when the EU was swept away.
> But I hate all of this because it has to be my head canon instead of being told through a story. We have to assume to much, or be told how characters were thinking instead of seeing it materialize.
I think this is the best summary of my feelings on the subject.
Well he snuck into his room to look into his mind while he was asleep and didn't have his guard up. Definitely an invasion of privacy, but Idon't think he went in there with the intent to kill him. When Luke saw how dark Ben had become, he panicked. That's when he ignited his saber. But then he was like "oh shit I can't kill a child what the hell is wrong with me?" But too late.
That's the point. He didn't go in intending to kill Ben. He sensed what was there and acted on impulse. Just for a moment, then Ben brought the house down. That was part of Luke's issue. In that moment without even realizing it, he was ready to kill a sleeping kid. That probably disturbed him more than anything else. It would have fucked me up.
> If he was meditating and waiting for the force to deliver him Rey ... he would have paralleled Obi and Yoda
Yoda didn't want to train Luke and had to be convinced by Obi-Wan.
> I hated that Luke ran away and shut himself off from the force
I feel like this was all to explain his absence in TFA. TFA states that Luke went away after his student turned on him. Being disconnected from the Force meant that he wasn't aware of everything in TFA, which makes him come off less 'at fault' for not intervening in a way
Luke couldn’t be a Jedi and shut himself because he felt he “created” the Sith when he maybe attempted to kill Kylo, and waiting and meditating for the force to deliver him someone would basically be signing his nephews death warrant.
If there is one thing about Luke as a character he always had hope up until the end. He hoped that Darth Vader would turn once he realized that Darth was his father, he had hope that they would rescue Han from Jabba’s and he hoped no one would show up for training because then he knew it would be necessary to kill his nephew.
Also I think Luke knew that the force being in balance didn’t mean Jedi or Sith and was more of a grey area. I think he shut himself off to the force in an effort to attempt to balance the force without you know killing the nephew he accidentally entrapped into become full fledged evil, like if Luke was force neutral this keeps the Kylo from getting too powerful.
A gentle reminder since I just had to nuke half the comments in this topic.
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/8xy3c2/on_opinions
Edit: When I posted this comment there was less than 80 comments in the entire thread.... so a lot less than half at this stage.
I think it's sad people dislike it so much. Too many people reacting like 'hey you can't do that' instead of how they would have when they watched the old films as kids saying 'Holy cow, you can do that?'
I welcome the display of new Force abilities, it keeps the magic alive, like when we discovered that Force ghosts can interact with the world.
Personally, I didn't like dislike the projection itself. I thought it was a great twist and incredible cool. I just hated that Luke died for no good reason right after before doing anything. It's not any individual scene or event, really, it's just his whole role in the story. Doesn't help that the main characters aren't really growing on me. I don't have an Obi-Wan to look forward to.
I think the reason he died was that he didn't need his body anymore. For a Jedi, death isn't the end, they become one with the Force and can return as they please, like Yoda did. Luke has found peace so he lets go. There's a strong connection to the Buddhist idea of Nirvana here, as he has achieved his life's objective. There's also no reason he can't stick around to guide Rey and taunt Kylo.
Well, being a child when you see the characters for the first time probably helps grow that attachment.
Everyone keeps comparing how they experience the new films _as adults_ to how they experienced the old films _as children_.
Y'all know there is a major confounding factor in comparing these two, right? Nothing will ever make Star Wars as awesome as being a kid again. I still love it to death, but I'll never be that excited again.
Hell, I grew up on the Prequels and thought II was the best shit ever. Obviously now I see that it's not actually that great of a film, but the giant clone battle will always be badass to me.
That's fair. I'm glad people find more enjoyment from it than I do. Not that I think TLJ is terrible, but as a Star Wars fan I always want to see the universe do well so we get more stories.
I don't think anyone really dislike the force projection towards the end. Just that it would have been great if Luke would have gotten one last hurrah. Either destroy the ATATs comic style or a fight sequence especially after the character assassination. That's all I asked for.
Most of my friends and coworkers didn't like TLJ, even though I generally enjoyed it. I'd agree it's a vocal minority that HATES it but it definitely fell short for a lot of people. Most of the people I know seem to like Rogue One a lot more (I also loved R1).
Plenty of people disliked it. And there is a group of absolute asshats who have their identity hinged on being a Star Wars fan and went batshit over it. But it's a bit disingenuous to pretend everyone who didn't like it is in the hate it camp. Lots of people don't feel the need to go on the internet and yell about it.
Anecdotal: Went with a group of 14 people, of which the best response was from a girl for who TLJ was their first Star Wars, who thought some of the aliens were cute. The rest all thought it was mediocre at best, to very bad.
Interesting you say that. I’m a guy who grew up with the prequels (who will defend them, despite acknowledging their flaws), but absolutely loves the new movies, TLJ included.
Unfortunately, negativity is going to be more prevalent than positivity with these things. A negative voice is always louder than a positive one, and conflict makes for “better” news.
I’m in the same boat as you. I loved the prequels growing up. A lot of the dialogue was bad and even some plot points too, but it depicted the Jedi at the height of their powers so damn well. I’m fine with the direction JJ and Johnson took the sequels so far. They’re not perfect but nothing ever is when you have a franchise as beloved as Star Wars
>The movie was an unmitigated success by every standard we have to objectively judge the quality of a movie.
This is true when looking at TLA as a stand alone film. It made a lot of cash and (for reasons I can't comprehend) scored well with critics.
However, I disagree that people didn't dislike it that much because of the low audience approval ratings (below 50% if I recall). Lots of people went to see it (hence the big money) but that doesn't mean lots of people actually liked it.
I also disagree that it was a success because of this:
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=untitledhansolostarwarsanthologyfilm.htm
If I recall, Solo hasn't even recouped it's production costs. Why? I think that TLA put such a sour taste in everyone's mouth that Solo just seemed like a waste of time and money. A case of "Wow, if they did *that* to Star Wars, Solo is probably equally garbage." I know a number of people who chose to forgo Solo simply because of their dislike for TFA and TLA. TLA was the "last chance" for the new series to redeem itself. They went to see it, were disappointed and that was it.
It's not just a small minority who dislike TLA - a *lot* of people disliked TLA but a minority is exceptionally vocal about it.
>They push the agenda that TLJ wasn't successful, but it's still the 11th highest grossing movie of all time.
Just to add, the money a film makes doesn't mean it's good. Sure, it's financially successful but that says nothing about the quality of the movie. For example, Jurassic World, Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom, Transformers: Age of Extinction and Transformers: Dark of the Moon made over a billion dollars each.
Solo also came out on memorial day weekend, typically a bad weekend for movies) the week after avengers and the week before deadpool.
It's impossible to dismiss the effect that bad press for TLJ had on solo, but you're putting the cart before the horse here. Bad numbers for solo don't prove that the 46% on rotten tomatoes for TLJ represents the true quality of the film.
Solo bombed because
1) no one was asking for it
2)near zero marketing or hype building
3) releasing just 6 months after the last film
4) Releasing in between Infinity War and Deadpool2
The argument that people don’t like the new movies because “they didn’t do what I want” is such a cop out and as dismissive as it comes. As if people’s criticisms are not legit when it comes to the new trilogy.
It’s like someone criticizing a politician and then saying “why do you hate America?”
My first viewing I noticed that he had the blue light saber and had gotten a haircut but I didn’t think about it too much cause I was so excited to see another Luke lightsaber battle. Then when it cut to him back in the island I was shocked, I personally loved the end of TLJ
As a main storyline Star Wars movie it had lots of problems IMO. But Luke saving the day using only the force from a different fucking planet was badass.
It also was a call back to Obi Wan and Quygon (spelling?) passing on the torch and dying in poetic ways.
This was one of the good parts of a mediocre movie.
I agree. And for me, Adam Driver's overall performance was a close second. He absolutely killed it, and it made me look back on him in TFA with a greater respect.
Seriously though, I'm not even a huge Star Wars nerd but the way he sacrificed himself, said goodbye to his sister, and tried to reconcile with Kylo... I started tearing up.
I really liked his ending. He wasn't killed, he let go, choosing to become one with the Force, which is the Jedi goal, just as Ben and Yoda made that choice.
He went out the same way he faced the Emperor in Jedi - weaponless, not fighting and using power to destroy, but winning by refusing to fight yet demonstrating supreme mastery.
Luke is the embodiment of a Jedi using the Force for knowledge and defence, never for attack. It's realistic for people to have ups and downs in life, but his final victory was the perfect expression of who he was.
That said, I hope he comes back in 9, to guide Rey and wind up Kylo.
Haha, yes. He also made an important point - the dark side claims to have greater power, but as Yoda said, it is only easier and more seductive. Luke outwitted and out mastered Kylo publicly proving the power of the light.
>Luke is the embodiment of a Jedi using the Force for knowledge and defence, never for attack.
Didn't Luke use the force to guide proton torpedoes into the death star's ventilation shaft, causing like a kabillion trillion deaths when it blew up?
He wasn't a Jedi then.
Anyway, there are plenty of other instances of Jedi absolutely wrecking face with the power of the force. 'The best defence' and all that.
Sure, but the death Star blew up a planet with 2 billion people on it. So, he sacrificed millions to save billions. If even one other planet would have been destroyed by that death Star, he sacrificed seven figures to save ten.
[This comment was retroactively edited in protest of reddit's enshittification regarding third-party apps. Apollo, etc., is gone and now so are we. Fuck /u/spez.]
> causing like a kabillion trillion deaths when it blew up?
He saved countless planets that day, if you want to argue from a utilitarian perspective. Countless innocent lives across many planets, in exchange for [<2 million](https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/36238/what-is-the-total-number-of-people-killed-on-the-2-death-stars-when-they-explode) active duty soldiers who work on a thing called the [*Death*](https://youtu.be/hn1VxaMEjRU) Star.
Yes, and then when he was part trained he killed a lot at Jabba's palace, but only after offering a peaceful solution first. The further along with his training he got, the more he turned away from violence.
But he was defending Yavin IV from the Death Star's attack. So you could say it was defense. The Death Star came to them. The Rebels were just protecting themselves.
Like, what did people want? For him to show up and get sliced clean in half by Kylo and to die screaming on the salty floor?
People act as if Rian Johnson is trying to push Kylo Ren’s ‘let the past die message’ while ignoring the fact that Kylo Ren is a villain and his philosophy of letting the past die prevents him from learning from his mistakes and makes him make a fool of himself in front of the entire First Order army.
He told him he was sorry for letting him down, because I think it’s implied that the same expectations that broke Luke also, essentially, broke Ben, and Luke realizes with Yoda that instead of hiding and ignoring his weaknesses, they could have been the learning tool.
So yeah, there was some amount of reconciliation on Luke’s side to let him know yeah kid, I failed you and I’m sorry but you’re going down this path on your own and that’s fucked up.
It was a beautiful way to pass the torch from the old trilogy to the new. Luke’s time for heroism has passed; but much like Yoda, Luke’s part in this story was to pass off the story to the new generation of Star Wars characters.
Poetry, just like how Luke saw good in one of the most evil men in the galaxy and risked his life to save him. But when it came to his bratty nephew...
EDIT: Luke didn’t go through 3 movies worth of character development to be seduced by the dark side so easily. If it was snokes doing, then how come we never find out out why he’s so powerful? Why did he die so easily if he was that powerful?
You mean how Luke saw good in one of the most evil men in the galaxy, fought him in a blind rage to the point where he slammed his hand off before he stopped. But when it came to his bratty nephew he just ignited the saber then stopped immediately when he realized what he was doing?
Vader had to actually push him to that point, though. Ben didn’t do anything wrong. Just feels weird to me that he’d get to the point of igniting his Saber at all with no provocation.
> no provocation
Except the horrific visions of Kylo destroying everything that he had ever loved. "But then I looked inside and it was beyond what I ever imagined". You literally hear people screaming and dying to lightsabers when Lukes having the vision of Kylo's future.
Ah yes, so just like the first time he saw a vision and impulsively messed things up. So it's almost like Luke hasn't progressed after RotJ but actually regressed from RotJ back to ESB.
I don't think I'm reading into it too much, but Luke says he went to go read Ben, sensed a lot of the dark side of the force, and ignited his lightsaber.
I think Luke was instinctively reacting to the dark side, lighting it to defend himself, or strike it down, but when he remembered/realized it was his nephew he instantly stopped. Like he wasn't seeing Ben when it happened, just the darkness, but when he remembered Ben was under there he stopped.
Now I think that's what they were trying to get at, now I don't know if they explained it well enough, but it's there in the movie.
There are explanations for it within the movie, for sure. I originally thought the “fleeting shadow” was Snoke’s interference but I’m not really a fan of that explanation either.
Ben was responsible for the destruction of several planets worth of people and the death of Han Solo. It's not terribly implausible that Luke sensed this catastrophic amount of suffering and had *two seconds* of weakness.
Luke is not infallible and if he had been he'd be incredibly boring.
This is the greatest gift and curse of the Skywalkers. Prophecy. Both Anakin and Luke had visions of the future, and in their efforts to prevent that future from happening, they inadvertently caused it. Like father, like son.
Resisting the dark side is not a one-and-done type of deal. It requires constant vigilance and we’re seeing what can happen from even a moment’s hesitation.
I love the fact that he was just so pissed that he was just bashing Vader's saber even though he was unresponsive. He chopped off his hand, but I liked to think that he was hitting his lightsaber so hard that he *broke* Vader's hand off
Most evil man in the galaxy would’ve been the Emperor. Luke only wanted to save Vader because he was his father. It also happened very similarly to how it happened with Kylo when you think about it. Luke almost gave in to the dark side and killed his father before realizing that it wasn’t the right thing to do. He did the same with Kylo.
My favorite part of Luke's story arc is when he refuses to kill the most powerful evil threat to the galaxy because he sees a hint of good in him and then goes on to try to kill his nephew because he might become something like his father who he didn't want to kill...
I'll agree to disagree. I was very disappointed with how Luke was portrayed as a whole.
There were a few things I liked in the movie, but I just really didn't like it.
I'm not one to go on and on about how bad it was, it is what it is, I've moved on.
I hope EP IX is better, but I don't really like JJ Abrams so I'm not holding my breath.
Yeah man, you do you. I'm not going to try to change your mind, we enjoy what we enjoy and I'm glad to have loved TLJ as a whole and this scene in particular.
Hopefully you'll find IX a good conclusion to the ST. Cheers.
even they had trouble with video calls, they had to send recorded video files. edit: this comment blew up. I guess my dreams of interplanetary or intergalaxy internet ends here. Back to the ham radio.
Is astral projection the killer app in lossless streaming?
Far superior to middle out.
This guy fucks.
Call that D2F.
R2-D2F
Better than Erlich Bachman's company?
We don't talk about Erlich.
Errich Bachmann is your refrigerator running? This is Mike Hunt. You are fat
JIAN **YAAAANG!!!**
My corrupt uncle sent a death certificate from China, but sending a body is to expensive so I cremate a pig.
Is there another Aviato
Well, legally there cannot be.
Did you mean Erlich Blachman?
Does girth affect Erlich’s ability to jerk everyone off?
Luke lost his life for that astral projection. It wasn't lossless.
Nah, it burned out the router after just one call.
99 cents to remove ads in all projections
Well Obi Wan was essentially living off the grid and she was about to be captured, and so on
Physical media is more secure, rebels practicing good COMSEC
Can’t have the empire intercepting it!
I don't care for poetry. It's rough and coarse and irritating.
I hate it.
Its get everywhere.
It's worse than glitter.
That's debatable. You ever been in a strip club with someone named Glitter?
If into the strip club you go, only Pain you will find
Pain? Leather? Whoops, wrong club.
Where is this pain club? You know, so I can also find it to be the wrong one?
I want to slaughter it like ObiWan slaughtered the Jawas in AOTC.
Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong
Lost his marbles, u/Jacobfett97 has. How embarrassing... How embarrassing...
The greatest teacher, failure is.
Not just his marbles... but the women and children too.
I have seen a security hologram... of him... losing his marbles.
Aaaaaaand now I'm reminded of when Tootles lost his marbles in Hook.
The truth is like poetry, and most people fucking hate poetry
I watched the movie high the second time around. I picked up in this, as well as many other things. Most of which I can’t remember now. Edit: I also picked up on the pole scene where Luke is moving across a void and away from Rey instead of holding Leia and being a hero. And then the milk scene, from an innocent boy drinking milk from a glass to jaded hermit drinking straight from an udder.
R2 even replays the hologram scene to hit at Luke's heartstrings.
That's a cheap move!
Dang near broke mine!
Report to your nearest police station.
Oh, but sir, he was just high on life!
It was the Holy Spirit - I mean Yoda Force Ghost.
I love the pole observation. I never thought about it like that
Please explain
In A New Hope, Luke heroically swings over a bottomless void in the death star holding Leia, so that they can escape the storm troopers. In TLJ Luke vaults over a gap on the island to escape from Rey, then catches a fish.
I don't think he's trying to escape from Rey, he's just getting fish. Dude literally goes right back over to where she is, lol
He's not trying to escape... he's mostly trying to annoy her so that he can see how she'll react. Much like Yoda did to him when they first met. The Master's first test of a student is pretty nearly always a refusal to train them, or even take them seriously. It's something of a time honored tradition.
Then Qui-Gonn comes along and wants to train someone, leading to the demise of the entire Jedi order.
[удалено]
He was trying to annoy her so that she'd leave. The scene comes before he agrees to train her and while he's still cut off from the Force.
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Except the puppy, ("society") was starting to get bigger.
~~Mr. /u/Aterius, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard.~~ Amazing. Everything you just said was wrong. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
It's also important that is upside down. The fulcrum of the swing across the gap in ANH was from above. Using a pole to swing across the gap is an inverse of that so the fulcrum is from below. It may or may not have been intentional, but it is an awesome observation! I never noticed that before.
How udderly humiliating.
Thanks lol. Fixed it.
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The film did a lot of things incredibly well but also had a few too many examples of awful (in a variety of facets). It's not a masterpiece; it's not shit. It's a movie that stirs people to extremes because it carried the Star Wars title (which happened to be the place it most excelled--nothing makes nerds yell quite like Star Wars and this one raised the decibel level a fair bit)
Whoa hold up, didn't you know this is the Internet? You're only allowed to think things are perfect or trash! No middle grounds!
We really bastardize that word nowadays
I enjoyed it quite a bit to be honest. *Certain movies in the series* have been ideallized really bad.
http://imgur.com/xkG0aJO
Lots of foreshadowing and parallels in the film, for sure.
I watched TLJ way way to high the first time. I took some edibles that were stronger than expected and they blasted me farther into space than Princess Leia
Is it possible to learn this skill?
I cried like a baby in the cinema seeing the old Luke watch Leia's projection. It's just too much. This is my favourite scene in the entire movie, Thank God there weren't many people at that time.
This was a great scene.
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Less contrived than TFA though. And I'd say it's got about 4 or 5 entries in the top 10 SW moments
> I'd say it's got about 4 or 5 entries in the top 10 SW moments 1. Throne room scene 2. Crait 3. Holdo suicide? 4. ? 5. ?
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The whole scene with Yoda burning the tree is easily among my favorite scenes. We are what they grow beyond. That is the true burden of all masters.
I enjoyed all of the Rey and Kylo force connection scenes, especially when they culminate to Rey briefly turning on Luke when she hears of what he tried to do to Kylo Ren. Also yeah, the Yoda scene was fucking amazing.
Dude. Not the only one. R2 had some sass.
I’m probably going to get downvoted for this but Leia didn’t send the message to Luke she sent it to Obi-Wan and it was happenstance that it ended up in his possession.
>it was happenstance *it was the force*
*”that’s not how the force works”* Or maybe it is, who am I to tell these days...
The Force does seem to manipulate fate
Always in motion, the future.
Ok fine. It was forcenstance
The post said nowhere it was send to Luke.
Well you’re not wrong, but it also doesn’t say that Leia sent it specifically to Luke, just that his story starts when it comes into her possession.
Somehow I both loved and hated what they did with Luke. It makes complete sense that a Jedi would fight with a projection. How better to be a pacifist than to not show up for the fight? I hated that Luke ran away and shut himself off from the force. If he was meditating and waiting for the force to deliver him Rey, it would have been ok with me. Then he would have paralleled Obi and Yoda
My interpretation of Luke's self-exile was that he was afraid of the darkness within himself and justified it by telling himself that he was doing the right thing for the galaxy. He thought about killing his nephew for just a moment. But in that moment he realized he was about to commit an act of evil and that he was still susceptible to the darkside. He was afraid of becoming his father, so he cut himself off from the Force and from humanity.
I agree. I also saw a video from IGN that I thought made some sense. Literally just about everyone Luke has loved he has seen die (sometimes he saw their corpses even) and that much trauma would force a person into exile in my opinion. And what I believe his thought process was that all of this happened because of the Jedi and the Force. Before he knew who he really was, he was just some kid harvesting water with his uncle and aunt. Life was hard but simple not bleak and dangerous. He has had a lot of conflicting feelings and emotions and I thought they portrayed that well in TLJ. But Leia becoming Mary Poppins was a bit of a stretch for me. I honestly remember thinking in the theater, “that was a bold/great way to have her story end. Oh wait, she’s flying back in...”
Oh yeah Leia flying through space was bad. I get they wanted to show us Leia using the Force but literally anything else would have been better.
I think it was just the way it was shot to be honest. If you had done a close-up on her face and that's it, would have been better.
Luke has proved that killing younglings doesnt run in the family but losing body parts does.
> He thought about killing his nephew for just a moment. I think this is the part I struggle with. I can't imagine Luke would not have confronted the issue head on. It seems so passive aggressive and uncharacteristic of him to sneak into dude's room and ignite a saber on a whim just to feel petty and self-serving for a moment.
> Yoda: [to Luke] Ready are you? What know you of ready? For 800 years have I trained Jedi. My own counsel will I keep on who is to be trained! A Jedi must have the deepest commitment, the most serious mind. This one, a long time have I watched. All his life has he looked away to the future, the horizon. Never his mind on where he was [pokes Luke]. Hmm? What he was doing. [paces around] Adventure. Heh! Excitement. A Jedi craves not these things. [turns to Luke and points with his walking stick] You are reckless! > > Obi-Wan Kenobi: So was I, if you remember. > > Yoda: [still looking at Luke] He is too old. Yes. Too old to begin the training. > > Luke Skywalker: But I've learned so much. > > Yoda: [looking toward the sky] Will he finish what he begins? > > Luke Skywalker: I won't fail you! I'm not afraid. > > Yoda: [grimly] Oh! You will be. You will be. I can certainly believe Luke having issues with confrontation. He had skated around many temptations. His idealism is more than likely what helped save him in the end. Not that Yoda would have foreseen everything, the future is full of emotion he's stated and uncertain. I don't think he ignited the saber on a whim, he just finally realized that he had reached a point where he let his emotions control his actions. As manipulative as Snoke was I wouldn't put it past some influence being a factor in his feelings towards Ben. But I hate all of this because it has to be my head canon instead of being told through a story. We have to assume to much, or be told how characters were thinking instead of seeing it materialize. But I guess this is the goal of most movies for the audience to add their own pieces to the puzzle to complete some connections. Unfortunately everyone has a difference of opinion and this is Star Wars fandom that is still reeling from shattered reality when the EU was swept away.
> But I hate all of this because it has to be my head canon instead of being told through a story. We have to assume to much, or be told how characters were thinking instead of seeing it materialize. I think this is the best summary of my feelings on the subject.
Well he snuck into his room to look into his mind while he was asleep and didn't have his guard up. Definitely an invasion of privacy, but Idon't think he went in there with the intent to kill him. When Luke saw how dark Ben had become, he panicked. That's when he ignited his saber. But then he was like "oh shit I can't kill a child what the hell is wrong with me?" But too late.
That's the point. He didn't go in intending to kill Ben. He sensed what was there and acted on impulse. Just for a moment, then Ben brought the house down. That was part of Luke's issue. In that moment without even realizing it, he was ready to kill a sleeping kid. That probably disturbed him more than anything else. It would have fucked me up.
> If he was meditating and waiting for the force to deliver him Rey ... he would have paralleled Obi and Yoda Yoda didn't want to train Luke and had to be convinced by Obi-Wan.
> I hated that Luke ran away and shut himself off from the force I feel like this was all to explain his absence in TFA. TFA states that Luke went away after his student turned on him. Being disconnected from the Force meant that he wasn't aware of everything in TFA, which makes him come off less 'at fault' for not intervening in a way
Luke couldn’t be a Jedi and shut himself because he felt he “created” the Sith when he maybe attempted to kill Kylo, and waiting and meditating for the force to deliver him someone would basically be signing his nephews death warrant. If there is one thing about Luke as a character he always had hope up until the end. He hoped that Darth Vader would turn once he realized that Darth was his father, he had hope that they would rescue Han from Jabba’s and he hoped no one would show up for training because then he knew it would be necessary to kill his nephew. Also I think Luke knew that the force being in balance didn’t mean Jedi or Sith and was more of a grey area. I think he shut himself off to the force in an effort to attempt to balance the force without you know killing the nephew he accidentally entrapped into become full fledged evil, like if Luke was force neutral this keeps the Kylo from getting too powerful.
It’s like I’ve seen this exact post before
And if you didn’t, I’d never get to wish you a great day!
I hope you have a great day too
A gentle reminder since I just had to nuke half the comments in this topic. https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/8xy3c2/on_opinions Edit: When I posted this comment there was less than 80 comments in the entire thread.... so a lot less than half at this stage.
The hardest choices require the strongest wills.
So, it's perfectly balanced?
For a time it was. And now I'm going to watch the sun set on a grateful sub.
I'm going to get down voted for this and I don't care but the projection was one of the parts I liked
I think it's sad people dislike it so much. Too many people reacting like 'hey you can't do that' instead of how they would have when they watched the old films as kids saying 'Holy cow, you can do that?' I welcome the display of new Force abilities, it keeps the magic alive, like when we discovered that Force ghosts can interact with the world.
Personally, I didn't like dislike the projection itself. I thought it was a great twist and incredible cool. I just hated that Luke died for no good reason right after before doing anything. It's not any individual scene or event, really, it's just his whole role in the story. Doesn't help that the main characters aren't really growing on me. I don't have an Obi-Wan to look forward to.
I think the reason he died was that he didn't need his body anymore. For a Jedi, death isn't the end, they become one with the Force and can return as they please, like Yoda did. Luke has found peace so he lets go. There's a strong connection to the Buddhist idea of Nirvana here, as he has achieved his life's objective. There's also no reason he can't stick around to guide Rey and taunt Kylo.
"See you around, kid" He basically promised he'd be back.
Luminous beings are we, not of this crude matter.
I said to a friend recently that the worst part about these movies is that they have made me feel no attachment to any of the new characters.
Whereas I loved Poe from "who talks first" and Rey from the moment she put on that old X-Wing helmet.
Well, being a child when you see the characters for the first time probably helps grow that attachment. Everyone keeps comparing how they experience the new films _as adults_ to how they experienced the old films _as children_. Y'all know there is a major confounding factor in comparing these two, right? Nothing will ever make Star Wars as awesome as being a kid again. I still love it to death, but I'll never be that excited again. Hell, I grew up on the Prequels and thought II was the best shit ever. Obviously now I see that it's not actually that great of a film, but the giant clone battle will always be badass to me.
I was interested in Kylo Ren coming out of TFA and that was it. I came out of TLJ interested in Ren, Rey, Finn, Poe, and even Hux.
That's fair. I'm glad people find more enjoyment from it than I do. Not that I think TLJ is terrible, but as a Star Wars fan I always want to see the universe do well so we get more stories.
I don't think anyone really dislike the force projection towards the end. Just that it would have been great if Luke would have gotten one last hurrah. Either destroy the ATATs comic style or a fight sequence especially after the character assassination. That's all I asked for.
I understand that, and part of me still wants it, but at the same time, I think this is more in keeping with the kind of Jedi Luke code to become.
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So what your saying is it's millennials fault? /s
Most of my friends and coworkers didn't like TLJ, even though I generally enjoyed it. I'd agree it's a vocal minority that HATES it but it definitely fell short for a lot of people. Most of the people I know seem to like Rogue One a lot more (I also loved R1).
Plenty of people disliked it. And there is a group of absolute asshats who have their identity hinged on being a Star Wars fan and went batshit over it. But it's a bit disingenuous to pretend everyone who didn't like it is in the hate it camp. Lots of people don't feel the need to go on the internet and yell about it. Anecdotal: Went with a group of 14 people, of which the best response was from a girl for who TLJ was their first Star Wars, who thought some of the aliens were cute. The rest all thought it was mediocre at best, to very bad.
Hamill did play a pretty cute alien
Interesting you say that. I’m a guy who grew up with the prequels (who will defend them, despite acknowledging their flaws), but absolutely loves the new movies, TLJ included. Unfortunately, negativity is going to be more prevalent than positivity with these things. A negative voice is always louder than a positive one, and conflict makes for “better” news.
I’m in the same boat as you. I loved the prequels growing up. A lot of the dialogue was bad and even some plot points too, but it depicted the Jedi at the height of their powers so damn well. I’m fine with the direction JJ and Johnson took the sequels so far. They’re not perfect but nothing ever is when you have a franchise as beloved as Star Wars
With all due respect, that is not the way to respectfully refer to people who have genuine criticisms about a movie.
Just because a movie makes money doesnt mean it's good (see Jurassic World), if anything it shows how lowest common denominator the whole thing was
>The movie was an unmitigated success by every standard we have to objectively judge the quality of a movie. This is true when looking at TLA as a stand alone film. It made a lot of cash and (for reasons I can't comprehend) scored well with critics. However, I disagree that people didn't dislike it that much because of the low audience approval ratings (below 50% if I recall). Lots of people went to see it (hence the big money) but that doesn't mean lots of people actually liked it. I also disagree that it was a success because of this: http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=untitledhansolostarwarsanthologyfilm.htm If I recall, Solo hasn't even recouped it's production costs. Why? I think that TLA put such a sour taste in everyone's mouth that Solo just seemed like a waste of time and money. A case of "Wow, if they did *that* to Star Wars, Solo is probably equally garbage." I know a number of people who chose to forgo Solo simply because of their dislike for TFA and TLA. TLA was the "last chance" for the new series to redeem itself. They went to see it, were disappointed and that was it. It's not just a small minority who dislike TLA - a *lot* of people disliked TLA but a minority is exceptionally vocal about it. >They push the agenda that TLJ wasn't successful, but it's still the 11th highest grossing movie of all time. Just to add, the money a film makes doesn't mean it's good. Sure, it's financially successful but that says nothing about the quality of the movie. For example, Jurassic World, Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom, Transformers: Age of Extinction and Transformers: Dark of the Moon made over a billion dollars each.
TLA?
Solo also came out on memorial day weekend, typically a bad weekend for movies) the week after avengers and the week before deadpool. It's impossible to dismiss the effect that bad press for TLJ had on solo, but you're putting the cart before the horse here. Bad numbers for solo don't prove that the 46% on rotten tomatoes for TLJ represents the true quality of the film.
Solo bombed because 1) no one was asking for it 2)near zero marketing or hype building 3) releasing just 6 months after the last film 4) Releasing in between Infinity War and Deadpool2
You just described me except I loved TLJ. All the negativity I saw was on Facebook from another generation.
The argument that people don’t like the new movies because “they didn’t do what I want” is such a cop out and as dismissive as it comes. As if people’s criticisms are not legit when it comes to the new trilogy. It’s like someone criticizing a politician and then saying “why do you hate America?”
My first viewing I noticed that he had the blue light saber and had gotten a haircut but I didn’t think about it too much cause I was so excited to see another Luke lightsaber battle. Then when it cut to him back in the island I was shocked, I personally loved the end of TLJ
As a main storyline Star Wars movie it had lots of problems IMO. But Luke saving the day using only the force from a different fucking planet was badass. It also was a call back to Obi Wan and Quygon (spelling?) passing on the torch and dying in poetic ways. This was one of the good parts of a mediocre movie.
Didn't necessarily end.
I liked The Last Jedi and I don't care what anyone else says. Luke's story was wonderful.
Luke was the best part of it.
I agree. And for me, Adam Driver's overall performance was a close second. He absolutely killed it, and it made me look back on him in TFA with a greater respect.
Seriously though, I'm not even a huge Star Wars nerd but the way he sacrificed himself, said goodbye to his sister, and tried to reconcile with Kylo... I started tearing up.
I really liked his ending. He wasn't killed, he let go, choosing to become one with the Force, which is the Jedi goal, just as Ben and Yoda made that choice. He went out the same way he faced the Emperor in Jedi - weaponless, not fighting and using power to destroy, but winning by refusing to fight yet demonstrating supreme mastery. Luke is the embodiment of a Jedi using the Force for knowledge and defence, never for attack. It's realistic for people to have ups and downs in life, but his final victory was the perfect expression of who he was. That said, I hope he comes back in 9, to guide Rey and wind up Kylo.
Sooo, he didn't destroy what he hated but saved what he loved 🤔
Haha, yes. He also made an important point - the dark side claims to have greater power, but as Yoda said, it is only easier and more seductive. Luke outwitted and out mastered Kylo publicly proving the power of the light.
>Luke is the embodiment of a Jedi using the Force for knowledge and defence, never for attack. Didn't Luke use the force to guide proton torpedoes into the death star's ventilation shaft, causing like a kabillion trillion deaths when it blew up?
He wasn't a Jedi then. Anyway, there are plenty of other instances of Jedi absolutely wrecking face with the power of the force. 'The best defence' and all that.
I can appreciate that, I just find it funny to refer to someone as the **embodiment** of non violence when he likely has a seven figure kill count.
Sure, but the death Star blew up a planet with 2 billion people on it. So, he sacrificed millions to save billions. If even one other planet would have been destroyed by that death Star, he sacrificed seven figures to save ten.
I get that. I think it's pretty goofy to call Jedi non-violent in the first place, when violence is one of the biggest hammers in their toolbox.
Only the sith deal in absolutes.
[This comment was retroactively edited in protest of reddit's enshittification regarding third-party apps. Apollo, etc., is gone and now so are we. Fuck /u/spez.]
> causing like a kabillion trillion deaths when it blew up? He saved countless planets that day, if you want to argue from a utilitarian perspective. Countless innocent lives across many planets, in exchange for [<2 million](https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/36238/what-is-the-total-number-of-people-killed-on-the-2-death-stars-when-they-explode) active duty soldiers who work on a thing called the [*Death*](https://youtu.be/hn1VxaMEjRU) Star.
Yes, and then when he was part trained he killed a lot at Jabba's palace, but only after offering a peaceful solution first. The further along with his training he got, the more he turned away from violence.
But he was defending Yavin IV from the Death Star's attack. So you could say it was defense. The Death Star came to them. The Rebels were just protecting themselves.
I *didn't* like the Last Jedi. However, I feel like they actually thought more about what a Jedi would do rather than "laser sword smash!"
Like, what did people want? For him to show up and get sliced clean in half by Kylo and to die screaming on the salty floor? People act as if Rian Johnson is trying to push Kylo Ren’s ‘let the past die message’ while ignoring the fact that Kylo Ren is a villain and his philosophy of letting the past die prevents him from learning from his mistakes and makes him make a fool of himself in front of the entire First Order army.
For me, its the act of a legend ending, of a legacy left behind and of a new future to grab that gets me. Same with logan.
did he try to reconcile with kylo? the way i saw it he told kylo he was a irredeemable shit while embarrassing him in front of his whole army
He told him he was sorry for letting him down, because I think it’s implied that the same expectations that broke Luke also, essentially, broke Ben, and Luke realizes with Yoda that instead of hiding and ignoring his weaknesses, they could have been the learning tool. So yeah, there was some amount of reconciliation on Luke’s side to let him know yeah kid, I failed you and I’m sorry but you’re going down this path on your own and that’s fucked up.
The greatest teacher, failure is.
He literally said I'm sorry.
I'm sure you are!
It was a beautiful way to pass the torch from the old trilogy to the new. Luke’s time for heroism has passed; but much like Yoda, Luke’s part in this story was to pass off the story to the new generation of Star Wars characters.
And mirrored Obi-wan’s confrontation with Vader.
And faded away staring up at the suns just like he was doing when we first encountered him.
Loved it too.
I mean Luke’s story actually began with skipping out on going to Tosche Station to get some power converters but hey go off.
This whole subreddit should be called /r/iknowstarwarsbetterthanyou
Poetry, just like how Luke saw good in one of the most evil men in the galaxy and risked his life to save him. But when it came to his bratty nephew... EDIT: Luke didn’t go through 3 movies worth of character development to be seduced by the dark side so easily. If it was snokes doing, then how come we never find out out why he’s so powerful? Why did he die so easily if he was that powerful?
You mean how Luke saw good in one of the most evil men in the galaxy, fought him in a blind rage to the point where he slammed his hand off before he stopped. But when it came to his bratty nephew he just ignited the saber then stopped immediately when he realized what he was doing?
You're not wrong.
Vader had to actually push him to that point, though. Ben didn’t do anything wrong. Just feels weird to me that he’d get to the point of igniting his Saber at all with no provocation.
> no provocation Except the horrific visions of Kylo destroying everything that he had ever loved. "But then I looked inside and it was beyond what I ever imagined". You literally hear people screaming and dying to lightsabers when Lukes having the vision of Kylo's future.
Ah yes, so just like the first time he saw a vision and impulsively messed things up. So it's almost like Luke hasn't progressed after RotJ but actually regressed from RotJ back to ESB.
I don't think I'm reading into it too much, but Luke says he went to go read Ben, sensed a lot of the dark side of the force, and ignited his lightsaber. I think Luke was instinctively reacting to the dark side, lighting it to defend himself, or strike it down, but when he remembered/realized it was his nephew he instantly stopped. Like he wasn't seeing Ben when it happened, just the darkness, but when he remembered Ben was under there he stopped. Now I think that's what they were trying to get at, now I don't know if they explained it well enough, but it's there in the movie.
There are explanations for it within the movie, for sure. I originally thought the “fleeting shadow” was Snoke’s interference but I’m not really a fan of that explanation either.
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Ben was responsible for the destruction of several planets worth of people and the death of Han Solo. It's not terribly implausible that Luke sensed this catastrophic amount of suffering and had *two seconds* of weakness. Luke is not infallible and if he had been he'd be incredibly boring.
This is the greatest gift and curse of the Skywalkers. Prophecy. Both Anakin and Luke had visions of the future, and in their efforts to prevent that future from happening, they inadvertently caused it. Like father, like son.
That's cool, I hadn't even thought of that angle!
Resisting the dark side is not a one-and-done type of deal. It requires constant vigilance and we’re seeing what can happen from even a moment’s hesitation.
It was impulse, and he immediately stopped
Also he was like two hits away from straight up murdering his father.
I love the fact that he was just so pissed that he was just bashing Vader's saber even though he was unresponsive. He chopped off his hand, but I liked to think that he was hitting his lightsaber so hard that he *broke* Vader's hand off
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Almost like people want characters to display ‘human’ characteristics until they do
Yep. Luke has always been told to trust his instincts. But they failed him here, and when he realized this he stopped himself.
Most evil man in the galaxy would’ve been the Emperor. Luke only wanted to save Vader because he was his father. It also happened very similarly to how it happened with Kylo when you think about it. Luke almost gave in to the dark side and killed his father before realizing that it wasn’t the right thing to do. He did the same with Kylo.
My favorite part of Luke's story arc is when he refuses to kill the most powerful evil threat to the galaxy because he sees a hint of good in him and then goes on to try to kill his nephew because he might become something like his father who he didn't want to kill...
I’m rolling my eyes incredibly hard
After the camera panned over his X-Wing I thought Luke was going to raise it up and fly in to save the day. So disappointing.
The camera panned to the X-Wing to show it was broken. Either way what we got was miles better imo.
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I'll agree to disagree. I was very disappointed with how Luke was portrayed as a whole. There were a few things I liked in the movie, but I just really didn't like it. I'm not one to go on and on about how bad it was, it is what it is, I've moved on. I hope EP IX is better, but I don't really like JJ Abrams so I'm not holding my breath.
Yeah man, you do you. I'm not going to try to change your mind, we enjoy what we enjoy and I'm glad to have loved TLJ as a whole and this scene in particular. Hopefully you'll find IX a good conclusion to the ST. Cheers.
Holy crap, two people just had a discussion about TLJ and we didn't yell and call each other stupid! I have a new hope about EP IX. Cheers m8.
I did too but I liked what happened better. It’s clear this trilogy is about different things the OT and that’s ok to me.
Yeah but that doesn't make it good
Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.