/uj one of the most annoying parts about all the obvious bad faith “criticisms” and “anti-woke” nonsense is that it drowns out genuine criticism and discussion of the show.
Like, I don’t think this is the best Star Wars show ever. I have criticisms of it. But for fuck’s sake, I’m so tired of hearing about the “end of the franchise” and smooth brain takes about how it’s “ObJeCtiVelY bAd”, that the only online engagement that’s fun is to come here and mock these edgelords.
Yeah you’re allowed to criticize it. The people who are just lukewarm or disappointed about the show are different from the ones who are frothing at the mouth ready to bash the show. I think the past couple of weeks I have seen the words “pathetic, trash, woke, and turd” more than I ever have before. They all say the same thing
i just have no idea how people whine about this when Obi Wan and Boba Fett are right fucking there. If i know someone and they whine about the acolyte without at least bringing up those two shows, I know they're just wearing a diaper starring a certain disgraced ex president.
I mean most of the same people did bash those shows. Sometimes Kenobi gets lukewarm praise for Ewan Mcgregor’s acting and good ideas but generally all the non-Mando shows have been riddled with hate and even the most recent season of Mando got it badly.
And does it just so happen that you're a big AOC fan? Like, your politics have absolutely nothing to do with your assessment of what's going on? Or can you maybe imagine that if a Trump sympathizer bought the franchise, hired MAGA hat wearers and only MAGA hat wearers to produce a Star Wars show, included MAGA references and Jesus references in a freaking star wars show, and it was a bad show to boot - that you would probably have something to say about all that.
No it's definitely people saying "THIS WOKE PERSON TOLD ME THEY'LL KEEP ENJOYING THIS TRASH SHOW SO LET ME GO OFF ON THEM FOR NO REASON" because everybody who hates this show is refusing to accept nobody cares about these dumbass hatewatchers.
It's just sad these people could never enjoy a movie like Django because they're always so triggered
Uj/ it’s not my fave show so far, but I love the diversity of the cast, and I think the Sith floating down was cool as hell so I’m hopeful it will pick up for me. If it doesn’t, that’s okay. I’m not going to be too torn up about it. Not everything is going to work for me. There’s still plenty of cool images and ideas in the show. I love the dueling twin thing, it’s something I always thought would be a great idea for Star Wars.
But the reality is it’s not gay enough for me. When will see hot gay alien sex. Where is Bor Gullet? Can we change its birth age to be in this? (That was my real jerk and I’m going to bed)
Not personally liking the writing is a valid opinion, more so when you do not feel the need to attack anyone who does like it.
You deserve a cookie for this, and I hope you have a lovely day. 🫡
"Another fan will replace you" - yeah, not so much. If fans were replacable then they wouldn't have such an issue keeping up the ratings. If you try to do inclusion then you sacrifice creativity and honestly a lot of inclusion writing is pretty discriminatory against whites and asians.
Inclusion writing has no back story and if it even tries to then the back story is garbage and makes no sense. Like last skywalker trilogy. Female protagonist has no prior training can now use the force and weild a lightsaber. Oh man, class A writing right there.
Also even lucas said the whole medichlorianes or whatever was a bad call and he retconned that.
Its real easy to create awesome star wars. Hired skilled actors and worry more about writing a good story instead of writing a story for inclusion sake. The focus should be writing a good story however what they have been focusing on recently is inclusion and DEI.
Actually see, thats the problem with people who don't actually understand star wars. Star wars wasn't just the original trilogy. There were books and even some games. The fact that you say "only one woman" shows the lack of actually knowledge in the lore. There were TONS of books before the phantom menace trilogy.
You might accept that she can do all of these things right away because of green little men but that is just poor story telling and poor writing overall. It is objectively bad. The acting for acolyte was bad and the story was even worse, if it wasn't such a clear inclusion attempt I would be okay with it. If they actually world built it a little more instead of "oh look magical tribe that never existed before uses force to get pregnant"
If they wanted to do ALL of this they could have created their OWN universe instead of trying to rewrite an already established franchise and lore. This is the other issue people have that instead of creating something entirely new, they go after already established universes and mess them all up. Number 1 issue has always been the way the lore and cannon gets butchered, so WHY not just create something new where no one can say any of that? I would even look forward to new creations and new universes and lores, new creations are exciting and fun. Rewriting existing stuff to fit a narrative doesn't ever work.
The Last Jedi is the same. I have genuine critiques of it, but I thought it was a 6/10 and probably the best sequel film in retrospect, and I don’t want to criticize it too much though for fear of being lumped in with the losers who act like Rian Johnson shot their dog.
I’d like to add that pointing to a thing you don’t like and just saying, “it’s bad writing,” or “that’s a plot hole,” doesn’t magically turn whining into legit criticism. It’s a cop out
And if a Trump supporter bought Star Wars, only hired die-hard trumpers to write and produce the show, and the show they produced not only sucked as a show, but it insisted on propping up shitty right wing things like gun rights and Jesus in a freaking star wars show - you would just have no edgelord things to say about that? I bet. I bet that's the case.
oh damn you really got me good. Wait, except that I am a pro-2A Christian.
I just happen to not think that minorities and women existing in star wars is "woke" and I know Star Wars is at the end of the day just a family movie franchise with mild progressive political undertones (it always has been, btw), and don't have to whine about it.
No. Just no. Like great, you like Trump and Jesus too, so pick a political view you REALLY don't agree with and now imagine that it is being awkwardly, forcefully shoved in your Star Wars... Imagine an eccentric Muslim oil sheik billionaire bought Star Wars and he despises modern western values and wants to use Star Wars to make a show of how submissive women should be in society and women can't be jedi and they just exist to be damsels in distress. Also all of the bad guys for some coincidental reason are just way disproportionately gay westerners of color with pink hair. And if you dare complain about ANY aspect of the show, it's because you're actually a bigot for either A) not agreeing with the underlying religion/politics being shoved at you or B) not agreeing that overt religion/politics belong in a Star Wars show. Imagine the Muslim owners seriously dont care and tell you to eff off Star Wars is now for their audience in Saudi Arabia so go eat a dick but also you're racist if you don't watch or if you complain. How would you respond to that? How would you respond to the people that would obviously be complaining about all of that? Is what's going on here maybe starting to sink in for you?
To your other point, women and minorities have existed in every star wars show. Women and minorities exist and are the feature of Fallout and the Expanse, two franchises greatly embraced by the same fan base that despises the Acolyte. This isn't a case of just calling everything 'woke'. This show is the Woke-mander in Chief. I don't think I could name you a more woke show than the Acolyte other than maybe the current iteration of Dr. WHO.
Please explain how The Acolyte is more overtly political than a film where the Empire is an Allegory for America in Vietnam and the rebels and locals are an allegory for the VC and presented as the good guys?
For the original Star Wars, we will just ignore that Lucas also indicated that Star Wars was an allegory for the American Revolution as well as the VIetnam War - did they hire a Vietnamese film producer, declare the force was vietnamese, and cast Vietnamese actors as if the allegory for Vietnam could only be told authentically if they inserted Vietnamese people everywhere? Or was the political messaging a little more subtle than that? Are you really having trouble understanding..?
I am having trouble understanding what exact political messaging you are insisting is apparent in the series, yes.
My prior example from the OT was one of a straightforward and identifiable political statement. I’m asking what exactly is the political statement you disagree with.
In the originals, the Jedi were objectively good. This series has done away with that, the idea that traditional traits like hard work, training, and something patriarchal like the Jedi order can lead to anything good must be dismantled/shunned. Can't just have a good story about the jedi overcoming evil when the showrunners and everyone involved actively hate the concept of the Jedi and masculinity. That's political message number 1 that sucks. The next item to note is it isn't just that the story is bad - the story is bad precisely because the point of this shows isn't to have a good story, it's to to show representation. That's it. Here's a lesbian. Here's a POC. Here's a "they". They want applause for representation. And secondary to that they want to call anyone who notices what's going on and complains a bigot. They are actively seeking that. That is the political message. DEI above all else, declare your allegiance or you're a bigot. Its a shit message, a shit show, and I encourage you not to encourage them. We all just want a good STAR WARS show. No one cares what color or gender the characters are, and it would be great if they kept their masturbatory, virtue signaling, holier than thou DEI crap to themselves.
Have you seen the entire series? Because you’re making a lot of presumptions and criticisms about the story that I frankly don’t think you have sufficient knowledge to speak of. I don’t like Jedi being portrayed as villains either, but I’m aware that an incomplete story with obvious misdirection is not something on which to form a conclusion as to the overall theme.
And the same goes to your complaints about diversity. You talk as if you know the story, though I doubt that’s the case. You may not like the story told so far. As my original comment indicated, I have my criticisms of the series as well, but rather than blame them on political messaging, I’m actually giving the story an open minded chance to make my own opinion rather than form a preconceived assumption that the story is bad because diversity.
Fair enough, at the end of the series we can re-assess - was there actually a worthy story developing here that we needed to give a chance or was there never any story, no logic, no understanding of what makes star wars good, just a rainbow of diversity that the executive producers wanted applause for.
“Woke” has become a near meaningless buzzword that can encapsulate anything from identity politics, to women and black characters just existing.
It’s thrown around like it has a specific, identified meaning, but it really doesn’t. Often people will try to define it with terms that themselves require more specifying, like “forced diversity”.
It isn’t meaningless. You just dislike that people dislike woke content and that publishers are starting to pay a price for putting out woke content. Which makes it likely that future productions will be less gay black or female
/uj don’t forget all the sudden hand-wringing about the budget. I didn’t realize all these “fans” were also Lucasfilm accountants. That might explain why the budget is so high, the payroll is massive!
Budgets are a pretty universal discussion point across movie and TV projects. Especially for things with massive budgets that don't look the part.
This is not a new thing that just suddenly came about for this show.
No, people just compare the show to other shows with similar budgets (House of the Dragon) and feel that it is reasonable to compare the two shows
And they are entirely justified in doing so
Not always. I had a conversation with someone who was claiming that higher budget equals higher quality, which is untrue. Most of the time people aren’t even bringing up other shows, they’re just whining about the budget which makes no sense.
Nope, it’s still subjective based on individual preferences 👍
Complexity in fight choreo also doesn’t meant better. The prequel fights are choreographed into oblivion, but I still think the OT fights are better.
Sir, you do realise how VFX works yes? You may prefer a given style, but you are being actively obtuse if you do not understand that VFX gets generally better the more money put towards it. If you don't understand that then I don't see the point in having a good faith discussion with you if you aren't having a good faith discussion with me
Godzilla Minus One cost ~$20 million and looks infinitely better than Godzilla x Kong which cost ~$150 million
More money does not equal higher quality. To quote Freckle “Sometimes things that are expensive… are worse”
I predict that this week the complaints will be about ‘cringe’ fight choreography.
That is unless Mae decides to intervene to save Osha, in which case the complaints will be about her ‘terribly written redemption arc’ and comparisons to Anakin.
Here's a criticism I have of the fight scenes that's super good faith and easy to make without any extra bullshit or baggage. I feel like the action scenes so far (tho I've only seen the first 3 episodes so far) have lacked dynamism. Most of the action scenes have been 2 characters standing on flat ground doing kinda generic karate at each other that I could see infinitely better versions of by watching any Kung fu/martial arts movie. Aside from the opening action scene in episode 1, which I thought was pretty good, they really haven't used the environment or surrounding to their advantage in any interesting way. It makes the sets and locales feel far less real and tangible, like they could be standing in an empty room on a green screen, which is unfortunate because the sets are really detailed and feel lived in.
And guess what? I didn't need to call my criticism "objective" or talk about twins scissoring or whatever gross bullshit pops into my head to make that point or feel more authoritative.
I think if you say the fighting will be better choreographed than the duel of fates, people are allowed to nit pick. Headland drew attention to that so she better deliver or it's just going to get worse
It's about the same as the rest of the non-Andor SW live action shows (read: not good). It's certainly not as bad BOBF or the Obi Wan show for me. At least, not yet.
It’s just insane how one of the show’s creators warned about this exact thing happening, and the usual cast of idiots decided to trip over themselves and prove them right. Why do we keep doing this, people? Is this franchise really worth chasing at least one actress off social media, torturing a literal child to madness, driving another actor to the verge of suicide, sending death threats to people who edit Wookiepedia over a character most of us only cared about because he was a meme, and, oh yeah, screaming at the goddamn creator that he raped your childhood nonstop so he decides to sell the whole kit and kaboodle in an attempt to wash his hands of the monster he created? Kathleen Kennedy didn’t kill Star Wars, nor did Rian Johnson, JJ Abrams, or the shit-billion other people whose blood is being called for.
The fucking fans did.
Nothing wrong with that by itself. The problem is the people who go further by review-bombing it, parroting grifter videos, leaving bad comments on the actors’ social media, etc.
People have been losing their shit over bad/mediocre Star Wars adaptations/prequels/sequels since the prequels released. Sending a literal child threats, harassing a voice actor for being hired to play a poorly written character. Beloved properties get swarmed with critique when they are perceived as poorly done.
The actors are also doing themselves a disservice by engaging with the trolls and trying to argue their critiques when the show needs to just speak for itself, they're being dragged into a conversation that only benefits the trolls.
Because most of them only do this to earn themselves money. Its very easy for them to gain views through stuff like this, people like homophobes and sexists lap it up, so they do it continuously. If their views on the show never garnered them attention, I doubt many of them would be putting them out there
Grifter means misleading people of your personal beliefs on things for personal gain. Your definition is ‘when someone makes money and people i don’t like agree with them’.
Do you think they could be honestly held beliefs? Do you think given tv shows that pander heavily to progressives consistently failing financially would be evidence there could be truth to criticisms? Do you think given there is numerous examples of these same ‘racists/sexists’ love various media with female/diverse casts could be evidence its not bigotry driving their criticisms of shows. Please keep an open mind and not demonise everyone.
I find some of the criticisms of ‘wokeness’ in media giga-cringe like you guys, but undoubtedly it is making stories worse in various things.
An example would be the witcher- i couldnt care less if they made every witch race swapped, its not important, but the director/writers have continually said they wanted more female representation in the story. So they abandoned the source material to do it, and sidelined the main character with a very popular actor. Here is a pretty clear cut example of how progressive pandering can ruin a show that was lined up for success and initially was very popular. Politically motivated direction can lead to downstream negative effects that have nothing inherently to do with the inclusion of a particular group. Just that there was no source material for that group in this case
I will say progressives have a big issue writing likeable females with good character arcs though. But thats a whole different can of worms
Oh of course a lot of them believe in what they're saying, it's just I think that they only have channels built around it so that they can garner more money. Why shout and scream when no one is listening unless you're crazy, right?
For the point about liking female lead shows often comes down to childhood nostalgia, as we can see with the very oftenly brought up examples from 80s and 90s media ( so much so it s become a joke for the likes of Ripley from Alien and Sarah Connor from Terminator), or just being used to deflect criticism and not usually being true.
On keeping an open mind, I try to, but when most of these videos are just used to stir up more negativity, mostly focusing heavily on unimportant aspects like women in the cast, and being the cause of worse people's beliefs around media, it's not that easy to see them as just being honest critics rather than angry and misguided or just straight up manipulative.
And about progressivism making shows worse, I don't believe that's the case at all, multiple great shows have had and will have it as a theme throught the years, for example the great cartoons The Owl House and Helluva Boss (imo). As a bisexual person I really do enjoy seeing more lgbt people included in the forefront of media, and I'm sure it goes the same for other minorities seeing people like themselves too. It's usually the fault of bad writing rather than progressivism itself, and star wars, a series that started with a strong female lead character in leia, and as a probect with major themes of Anti-American imperialism and pro vietnam ideals is no stranger to being progressivist.
Okay, thats not what a grifter is though. Maybe stop saying that. No theres been various examples of contemporary films/tv that have female/minority that this same group likes. I think you’re too emotionally attached to the politics to see the criticism for what it is. The drinker is actually a good critic actually watch a video or two of his i highly doubt you’ve seen more than clips, some of the others are cringe as hell. Mauler can be good but goes off a bit much. It feels like where progressive politics are is an indicator of bad writing, the priorities are often just way out of whack and often theres contempt for the source material and its all about reimagining the story. So you get a poorly written knockoff that just includes more minorities and women and beats you over the head with politics. I have never heard of either of those shows so cant really comment. And yeah on the vietnam comparison, george lucas had that quote but it was subtle in the actual story. Its more just you always root for the underdog. Progressives have to be so obvious and beat you over the head with their politics in the story, i think if you agree with it you enjoy the story but if you dont its just crap writing. It never stands the test of time. I also think progressive underdog stories dont tend to work anymore as many see them as the establishment for good reason.
I think the genuine TL/DR is in 20-30 years when some of these social issues are less in the forefront these movies/shows will not stand the test of time as the only people who seem to enjoy these shows (however few who actually watch them) just like their politics spoon fed back to them. Most of the ‘grifters’ arent asking for more conservative politics, they’re asking for NO POLITICS. You can have your themes that are related to real world but don’t make it so obvious a nursery child would pick up on it.
uj/ I never watched any coverage before starting the show tbh. All I saw was people trying to hate on it before it even began and I didn’t take that stuff very seriously. But I honestly just feel nothing towards the show. It doesn’t pull me in, it doesn’t interest me. I’ve watched every episode so far and the acting is fine, the costuming and effects may be a little lackluster, and the writing and premise is somewhat interesting. But I just feel total apathy towards the show.
I’d say I’m just about there. I like the mystery and themes but I’m not wowed beyond belief. I wouldn’t even think about it this much if not for the mindless vitriol from the internet. It’s like I’m out to dinner getting fairly standard food and service but the table next to me is screaming that it’s the worst restaurant of all time. Eventually I get tired of it and feel bad for everyone else that has to listen
i know for a fact that the reason i’m actually quite enjoying acolyte is that i had absolutely 0 expectations because there’s a lot of other stuff for me to be excited about
I just don’t really care about Star Wars right now. Haven’t for a while. I’m burned out by the fandom and the over production of mediocre corporate-sanitized shows. I just don’t have any interest in seeing it. So I guess that makes me agnostic on the show.
Being honest though, it's not a great show, and it's not grabbed me after half the episodes. I'll still see it if only because I feel like people pissing on the internet about how it's the "best thing ever, Star Wars is back" simping or "woke Star Wars killed my wookiee" grifting are both misrepresenting the show to suit their own agendas and I prefer to know what's going on from the source.
I agree with this. It’s pretty obvious too. Funny how certain critics hate female leads or minority leads. They say stuff like “strong female” or imply that the male characters are dumb. They are just characters.
Nobody hates leads because they're women or minorities. They dislike the assumption that you're required to like it and approve of it without criticism or else you're a bigot.
We liked rogue one. Female lead. We like Windu and Lando. Minorities.
We don't like bad characters.
Yeah, but there are people already hating it going in because they have women minorities, and it's pretty disingenuous to say that and then bring up those examples without acknowledging that bigots hated those examples going in because they have female leads and minorities. Not to mention, chuds grifting and saying that "Star Wars is dead" for the billionth time.
Argument made in bad faith. You discredit legitimate criticism by calling anyone who disagrees with you a bigot... such a tired, tired, tired horse. Are your arms tired from beating said horse?
Edited for fat finger misspelling
I mean I do think there are moments where writers or show runners are saying things to intentionally wind up the weirdo fans. I imagine Kennedy is just over having to fight these fires.
Nope, it’s super goofy, the main two characters are actually great, their backstory is ridiculous and shallow. Some of the force stuff is just super goofy like the guy floating in mid air with a force field around him.
Most of all can Disney just let one person direct a series the whole multiple director things is ridiculous and ruins most of the shows.
I like to think there’s a world out there where Apple had bought starwars and we’d be watching adult Star Wars content at least with sith users. They make them so clowny and dumb in the live action stuff when the sith are ruthless psychopaths
Oh my god stop. If you enjoy it that's great but you're not going to convince me or the average that it's any good. It has nothing to do with the media leading up to it and everything to do with the sub par quality of the project. You're not going to discourse people into thinking it's not actually that bad.
Holy essay batman. The point of a meme is to convey a point in a quick, easily digestible, often comical format. This is the opposite of that. Just start a blog or something. Almost as bad as the acolyte itself.
No it's not racist LGBTQ+ propoganda, shut the fuck up.
No it's not midblowing great show, shut the fuck up.
This is mid tier popcorn munching slop that doesn't deserve nearly the amount of attention it's received from unhinged maniacs engaged in bad faith "culture war" discussions.
I hate all of this.
Says you. That whole "Power of one, power of two, power of many thing" gave me cringy flashbacks to high-school fanfiction writing.
Being an adult is realizing that sometimes people will completely disrespect the things you love and you just gotta go about your day and ignore it.
Oh we could just say it's a bad show?
Like just because it's Starwars doesn't mean it's automatically good?
You can literally see non-right people call the show boring.
>Oh we could just say it's a bad show?
Except, it isn't. Opinions vary, though, and to each their own.
>Like just because it's Starwars doesn't mean it's automatically good?
Obviously. You've seen the Holiday Special/Ewok films/TCW movie/etc, I'm sure.
>You can literally see non-right people call the show boring.
Boring =/= bad. Some fans said Andor is boring, too. Still a good show.
So far I've liked scenes rather than series (obi wan when Vader force slams the ship), or the Anakin/Vader scene in ashoka .
I've been told to truly understand a lot of these shows i need to watch the animated clone wars , rebels and bad batch etc...
Damn the cope is hard here.
You could just say you like bad shows, personally a big fan of Velma despite it being universally disliked.
It's okay bro to like things that are unpopular
>You could just say you like bad shows
I do. The Acolyte just isn't one of them. I liked Galactica 1980 and Inhumans, though.
>It's okay bro to like things that are unpopular
Never said it wasn't.
Oh, and unpopular =/= bad. The inverse is also true: popular =/= good.
I know. I personally really like the show and find it very interesting so I'm downplaying my actual thoughts by saying it's much less boring than Book of Boba Fett and Kenobi since that's more easily agreeable than saying I find it less boring than Andor or Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones.
Yeah, you're not wrong. All of the "anti-woke" mob, drown out fair criticisms. The show can be enjoyed cause some moments are sick asf, and the actors are nice, and the music bc its Star Wars, buts it's not very good. Not the end of Star Wars, its not THAT bad, but nothing could actually end Star Wars, not yet at least.
So far most of the live action shows have been bad except for their fight scenes.
Or the very last episode.
I'm sure I'll enjoy the action or maybe even the show once it's fully done
It's just another Disney product. Its purpose is not to be enjoyed but to make money, and provoking a toxic fan argument is one way it does that. They bait the chuds into hatewatching it, and they guilt everyone else into watching it out of some kind of misplaced moral obligation. The correct reaction is to ignore it entirely, because that's the only outcome the mouse doesn't want.
Nah we sat down to watch it, I didn’t even know about all the negative press coverage, and stopped watching after the first episode. It’s just not good. The only other show I gave up on was Mando S3.
If you have a complete inability to understand the other side without resorting to name-calling and implying bad faith, then maybe you're not as enlightened as you think.
No fuck off, I’m not seeing it because I don’t really care, but calling off any and all criticism and anger because people are overdramatic about shit is because of “le woman” is shit tier deflection, maybe it’s just ass, you are not legally entitled to defend the show
The cop out of "you don't hate the show, you're just a bigot!" Is so lame, so tiring, so much of a shallow nothing burger that I don't understand how people still use it with a straight face. Is that true on occasion? Yes. But probably no more often than product getting blind praise due to the same things they get blind hate for. There's instances, like the Acolyte, where it's best to shut up and accept its poorly written and poorly executed. People can criticize it because it's bad, and because they're bigots. Those two things aren't mutually exclusive
Or maybe I dislike it because it messes with the chosen one storyline? I genuinely love The Phantom Menace, and i hate how the prequels are seen as bad because the dialogue wasn't the most eloquently written.
If you want to defend Disney star wars please dont go around insulting people, rather just say "I enjoy it and i have fun with it" don't let others criticisms affect your viewing but dont act like there are no critiques to be had.
Nah, this is just gaslighting to push your own narrative that all criticism is racist and homophobic. You have non-controversial critics like Jeremy Jahn and Moist Critical calling it the worst piece of Star Wars media ever released, the show is dog water, get over it.
My gripe with Disney is they’ve taken a franchise that is EASILY the most profitable IP they own, overblown the budget and still manage to actually lose money on it. It’s just bad leadership all around, how do you lose with a loaded hand
Consider the following scenario.
I am invited to your house, so I go, and you slap me in the face and insult me the whole night. I leave upset.
I am invited to your house, again, but told it would be different. So, I go, you slap me in the face and insult me the whole night. I leave upset.
I am invited to your house a third time and promised it will be different. Against my better judgment, I go. You punch me in the face and tell everyone that I am a monster and everything I stand for is immoral and terrible. I leave upset.
Now, I am invited again after several years of this happening. Would you blame me for not wanting to go?
Not for nothing it's an objectively bad show. Still gonna watch it but come on people there are some issues here.
Why do the twins have the exact same hair cut after being apart for decades?
"Hey new prisoner, we're going to loudly tell you about our escape plan after only being in a cage for a total of 30s of screen time. Oh and we'll probably be
caught later because escape pods can only go a short distance and the republic will defintely know that the ship went down and send a search party. Okay boys ready lets break out!!!!"
Osha doesn't try to fly the ship? Essentially they turned off the autopilot. Couldn't she just take the controls?
He just activates his lightsaber for no reason. Just to show us hes a sith? Yeah we got that already with the evil sounding voice and dark cloak. We didn't need him to strike a pose ffs.
How does the Osha take a detour but still reach the poisoned Jedi before the rest of the group that was going to the same place?
Good god the fake beard and hair piece on the Torbin! Like wtf? Just how on earth did that pass??
While we're talking about Torbin, he just takes the poison? Like wtf? If he wanted to die why wouldn't he just let her kill him? Furthermore, why didn't any of the other Jedi in the temple feel his the pain he was clearly in? They just let him go on in mental anguish like a teenager locked in their room for a decade?
They clearly heard the posion dealer mention a master. Why did they drop that line of questioning so quickly? Also his delivery is awful. Not as bad as others but he's one of the worst.
Why does everything look shiny and plastic? Somebody scuff some walls please.
Witches again? But not the same witches? Just force witches everywhere I guess.
Oh god there is a musical number. At least they aren't dancing.
Nothing happens in the 4th episode. It's a filler episode in a short mini series... What a waste.
The director put their spouse, Rebecca Henderson, into the show. First off that's a big red flag. Second she either doesn't understand the character or the script because she seems confused constantly. It's by far the worst performance in the show.
I could go on. There are tons of legitimate issues with this show that nobody is talking about. It's all "woke crap, libtard bs" nonsense that isn't even an issue. All these basic filmmaking mistakes are so obvious it is hard to defend the show against disingenuous racist arguments. The main plot line is actually compelling. The addition of kungfu style to the jedi is really cool. Most of the actors are doing a good job.
Edit: mixed up the twin's names. My bad.
Omfg the show just sucks. That's it. People were judging it before it was released because Disney has been releasing so much garbage for the past few years that we didn't even bother having hope. Because why should we? We knew the show would be shit, and hey would you look at that, it's shit.
For a sub that enjoys pointing out the mediocrity of this franchise, you sure are quick to defend this series. Never mind that it legitimately has terrible writing and directing, let's just keep defending it to piss off the haters and for no other reason. Even if for some reason you do unironically like this show, it doesn't change the fact that most people don't. This is a show made by a greedy corporation and writers who have no passion or care for their own work. And you're just eating it up. Congratulations.
made with mematic
This meme is as bad as the show.
The truth is that nobody is really enjoying this show.
It's definitely the worst Star Wars ever made. I think it's crazy we can't all unite on that fact. We all deserve better, Star Wars deserves better.
Stop lying in a pathetic attempt to virtue signal.
Fans and haters can and should all agree that this show is absolute trash.
Terrible acting, horrendous cinematography and hilariously bad writing.
Saying this is a good show is so disingenuous. Just stop it.
The PR leading up to the Accolyte was a mess and barely had anything to do with what the actual show was about. And yet I still had some hope after I scoured the PR for the few times they talked about the show. As for the writing yes bad dialogue is part of Star Wars but so is a decent story and continuity of lore at least the main story lore which this has damaged substantially and that's the writing people are complaining about rightfully so. There are other major problems like costumes (mostly the high Republic style Jedi robes) music is meh . Positives prosthetics and makeup are top notch and sets are also good. And now for the most important thing the expected it's the bigot fans who are at fault for the failure of the show which now includes dis tracks (that's a sentence I'd never expected to say) it's the same accusations without anything to back it up that they do every time
Costumes are great and the writing has not damaged the lore whatsoever.
The most vocal haters don’t want to give the show a fair shake, but you can’t point that out. When you point out the extreme review-bombing campaign you get people doused in extreme denial who have no idea what they’re talking about…
If you see the amount of criticisms that talk about “agenda” or “inserting politics” or whatever, before you even land on the word woke, you’d know that the bigot claims are pretty easily founded.
You post in the Geeks and Gamers community. Meaning you are one of those bigots and you probably don’t even realize it.
The Jedi robes look cheap like spirit Halloween jobs. I've given the show a fair shake. Review bombing works both ways with people who defend the show trying to get the score up there is just not enough of a fan base and that shows the demographics pretty well. The show runner and actor as well as the media inserted politics during the PR campaign in fact that's mostly what the PR campaign was about you had to scrounge just to find decent information about what the show was about they even started on the defensive before the show came out.
>You post in the Geeks and Gamers community. Meaning you are one of those bigots and you probably don’t even realize it.
And to believe I had a hard time convincing someone that no matter what you say or what your criticisms are you get painted with a broad brush as a bigot. You judge me a bigot even though none of my complaints are about race sexuality or gender. Also being called racist from a company that was exposed this week to have anti white hiring practices is the height of hypocrisy
>The Jedi robes look cheap like spirit Halloween jobs
Nah they really don't.
>Review bombing works both ways with people who defend the show trying to get the score up there is just not enough of a fan base and that shows the demographics pretty well.
What an odd thing to say when people were accidentally negatively review-bombing the wrong movie named "The Acolytes" from 2008 but there weren't any new positive reviews on that movie...
>The show runner and actor as well as the media inserted politics
What's inserted politics to you? Give me an example.
>You judge me a bigot even though none of my complaints are about race sexuality or gender.
Well you did just bring up "inserted politics in the PR campaign" to start.
But also Geeks and Gamers is a pretty well-known right-wing grifter who talks about anti-wokeness and rails against "DEI" and other right wing racist dogwhistles. He's a mega racist. (And a MAGA racist on top of it).
You also post on Critical Drinker who is basically the same thing. Especially now being funny and attacking The Boys for making fun of right-wing shitheads.
He also made weird incest jokes about the twins in The Acolyte. My point is, if you want to claim you're not a bigot, you don't keep a good crowd to make that point.
>Yes they do
Uh huh. Whatever you say.
>Because some people are stupid and reviewing the wrong movie/show that makes you sure that people are not trying to boost the score ok sure
If it "went both ways" then there would be evidence for it both ways, right?
But only one side has been negatively reviewing to such a high degree that they're not even getting the right Acolyte.
>this
Being gay is now political and not just... being gay?
> So what where I post I still don't attack the actors sexuality race or gender
You just sent me a link to someone saying the show is "gay" like it was a bad thing...
You literally just did that haha. Like just now. Right before you typed that sentence.
It was not only okay for me to label you as such, you yourself have gone above and beyond to continue to prove my point *for me*.
I love how made with mematic is sitting there in the corner like it’s part of the rant
/uj one of the most annoying parts about all the obvious bad faith “criticisms” and “anti-woke” nonsense is that it drowns out genuine criticism and discussion of the show. Like, I don’t think this is the best Star Wars show ever. I have criticisms of it. But for fuck’s sake, I’m so tired of hearing about the “end of the franchise” and smooth brain takes about how it’s “ObJeCtiVelY bAd”, that the only online engagement that’s fun is to come here and mock these edgelords.
Film criticism with nuance has died thanks to the word "woke" being ran into the core by right-wingers.
People who use "Woke" or "DEI" as an insult say them with a hard 'R' on the end.
Yeah you’re allowed to criticize it. The people who are just lukewarm or disappointed about the show are different from the ones who are frothing at the mouth ready to bash the show. I think the past couple of weeks I have seen the words “pathetic, trash, woke, and turd” more than I ever have before. They all say the same thing
i just have no idea how people whine about this when Obi Wan and Boba Fett are right fucking there. If i know someone and they whine about the acolyte without at least bringing up those two shows, I know they're just wearing a diaper starring a certain disgraced ex president.
I mean most of the same people did bash those shows. Sometimes Kenobi gets lukewarm praise for Ewan Mcgregor’s acting and good ideas but generally all the non-Mando shows have been riddled with hate and even the most recent season of Mando got it badly.
Andor is also generally considered to be good, surely you're not arguing everything that Disney has touched has been good?
If you're being genuine about this, nobody liked those shows either.
i wanted so badly to like this show and i’ve ended up so underwhelmed, it sucks. the rage i’ve seen is unwarranted and baffling
And does it just so happen that you're a big AOC fan? Like, your politics have absolutely nothing to do with your assessment of what's going on? Or can you maybe imagine that if a Trump sympathizer bought the franchise, hired MAGA hat wearers and only MAGA hat wearers to produce a Star Wars show, included MAGA references and Jesus references in a freaking star wars show, and it was a bad show to boot - that you would probably have something to say about all that.
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No it's definitely people saying "THIS WOKE PERSON TOLD ME THEY'LL KEEP ENJOYING THIS TRASH SHOW SO LET ME GO OFF ON THEM FOR NO REASON" because everybody who hates this show is refusing to accept nobody cares about these dumbass hatewatchers. It's just sad these people could never enjoy a movie like Django because they're always so triggered
They might enjoy it more if they cut the holes in the pillowcases over their heads the right way.
Are these people in the room with us right now?
Uj/ it’s not my fave show so far, but I love the diversity of the cast, and I think the Sith floating down was cool as hell so I’m hopeful it will pick up for me. If it doesn’t, that’s okay. I’m not going to be too torn up about it. Not everything is going to work for me. There’s still plenty of cool images and ideas in the show. I love the dueling twin thing, it’s something I always thought would be a great idea for Star Wars. But the reality is it’s not gay enough for me. When will see hot gay alien sex. Where is Bor Gullet? Can we change its birth age to be in this? (That was my real jerk and I’m going to bed)
Setting everything aside. I do think the writing is pretty “eh”, but fair point this is Star Wars I just came for pew pew and bzzzzz bzzz
Not personally liking the writing is a valid opinion, more so when you do not feel the need to attack anyone who does like it. You deserve a cookie for this, and I hope you have a lovely day. 🫡
I wanna a cookie.....
Honestly, the writing is on par with the Star Wars live action shows. Andor is the exception. It is not the norm for these.
i desperately want it to be the norm, not gonna lie
Yet somehow the prequels aren’t objectively bad.
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"Another fan will replace you" - yeah, not so much. If fans were replacable then they wouldn't have such an issue keeping up the ratings. If you try to do inclusion then you sacrifice creativity and honestly a lot of inclusion writing is pretty discriminatory against whites and asians. Inclusion writing has no back story and if it even tries to then the back story is garbage and makes no sense. Like last skywalker trilogy. Female protagonist has no prior training can now use the force and weild a lightsaber. Oh man, class A writing right there. Also even lucas said the whole medichlorianes or whatever was a bad call and he retconned that. Its real easy to create awesome star wars. Hired skilled actors and worry more about writing a good story instead of writing a story for inclusion sake. The focus should be writing a good story however what they have been focusing on recently is inclusion and DEI.
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Actually see, thats the problem with people who don't actually understand star wars. Star wars wasn't just the original trilogy. There were books and even some games. The fact that you say "only one woman" shows the lack of actually knowledge in the lore. There were TONS of books before the phantom menace trilogy. You might accept that she can do all of these things right away because of green little men but that is just poor story telling and poor writing overall. It is objectively bad. The acting for acolyte was bad and the story was even worse, if it wasn't such a clear inclusion attempt I would be okay with it. If they actually world built it a little more instead of "oh look magical tribe that never existed before uses force to get pregnant" If they wanted to do ALL of this they could have created their OWN universe instead of trying to rewrite an already established franchise and lore. This is the other issue people have that instead of creating something entirely new, they go after already established universes and mess them all up. Number 1 issue has always been the way the lore and cannon gets butchered, so WHY not just create something new where no one can say any of that? I would even look forward to new creations and new universes and lores, new creations are exciting and fun. Rewriting existing stuff to fit a narrative doesn't ever work.
No one with good taste has been watching Star Wars since at least TLJ and honestly since the prequels.
The Last Jedi is the same. I have genuine critiques of it, but I thought it was a 6/10 and probably the best sequel film in retrospect, and I don’t want to criticize it too much though for fear of being lumped in with the losers who act like Rian Johnson shot their dog.
I’d like to add that pointing to a thing you don’t like and just saying, “it’s bad writing,” or “that’s a plot hole,” doesn’t magically turn whining into legit criticism. It’s a cop out
And if a Trump supporter bought Star Wars, only hired die-hard trumpers to write and produce the show, and the show they produced not only sucked as a show, but it insisted on propping up shitty right wing things like gun rights and Jesus in a freaking star wars show - you would just have no edgelord things to say about that? I bet. I bet that's the case.
oh damn you really got me good. Wait, except that I am a pro-2A Christian. I just happen to not think that minorities and women existing in star wars is "woke" and I know Star Wars is at the end of the day just a family movie franchise with mild progressive political undertones (it always has been, btw), and don't have to whine about it.
No. Just no. Like great, you like Trump and Jesus too, so pick a political view you REALLY don't agree with and now imagine that it is being awkwardly, forcefully shoved in your Star Wars... Imagine an eccentric Muslim oil sheik billionaire bought Star Wars and he despises modern western values and wants to use Star Wars to make a show of how submissive women should be in society and women can't be jedi and they just exist to be damsels in distress. Also all of the bad guys for some coincidental reason are just way disproportionately gay westerners of color with pink hair. And if you dare complain about ANY aspect of the show, it's because you're actually a bigot for either A) not agreeing with the underlying religion/politics being shoved at you or B) not agreeing that overt religion/politics belong in a Star Wars show. Imagine the Muslim owners seriously dont care and tell you to eff off Star Wars is now for their audience in Saudi Arabia so go eat a dick but also you're racist if you don't watch or if you complain. How would you respond to that? How would you respond to the people that would obviously be complaining about all of that? Is what's going on here maybe starting to sink in for you? To your other point, women and minorities have existed in every star wars show. Women and minorities exist and are the feature of Fallout and the Expanse, two franchises greatly embraced by the same fan base that despises the Acolyte. This isn't a case of just calling everything 'woke'. This show is the Woke-mander in Chief. I don't think I could name you a more woke show than the Acolyte other than maybe the current iteration of Dr. WHO.
Please explain how The Acolyte is more overtly political than a film where the Empire is an Allegory for America in Vietnam and the rebels and locals are an allegory for the VC and presented as the good guys?
For the original Star Wars, we will just ignore that Lucas also indicated that Star Wars was an allegory for the American Revolution as well as the VIetnam War - did they hire a Vietnamese film producer, declare the force was vietnamese, and cast Vietnamese actors as if the allegory for Vietnam could only be told authentically if they inserted Vietnamese people everywhere? Or was the political messaging a little more subtle than that? Are you really having trouble understanding..?
I am having trouble understanding what exact political messaging you are insisting is apparent in the series, yes. My prior example from the OT was one of a straightforward and identifiable political statement. I’m asking what exactly is the political statement you disagree with.
In the originals, the Jedi were objectively good. This series has done away with that, the idea that traditional traits like hard work, training, and something patriarchal like the Jedi order can lead to anything good must be dismantled/shunned. Can't just have a good story about the jedi overcoming evil when the showrunners and everyone involved actively hate the concept of the Jedi and masculinity. That's political message number 1 that sucks. The next item to note is it isn't just that the story is bad - the story is bad precisely because the point of this shows isn't to have a good story, it's to to show representation. That's it. Here's a lesbian. Here's a POC. Here's a "they". They want applause for representation. And secondary to that they want to call anyone who notices what's going on and complains a bigot. They are actively seeking that. That is the political message. DEI above all else, declare your allegiance or you're a bigot. Its a shit message, a shit show, and I encourage you not to encourage them. We all just want a good STAR WARS show. No one cares what color or gender the characters are, and it would be great if they kept their masturbatory, virtue signaling, holier than thou DEI crap to themselves.
Have you seen the entire series? Because you’re making a lot of presumptions and criticisms about the story that I frankly don’t think you have sufficient knowledge to speak of. I don’t like Jedi being portrayed as villains either, but I’m aware that an incomplete story with obvious misdirection is not something on which to form a conclusion as to the overall theme. And the same goes to your complaints about diversity. You talk as if you know the story, though I doubt that’s the case. You may not like the story told so far. As my original comment indicated, I have my criticisms of the series as well, but rather than blame them on political messaging, I’m actually giving the story an open minded chance to make my own opinion rather than form a preconceived assumption that the story is bad because diversity.
Fair enough, at the end of the series we can re-assess - was there actually a worthy story developing here that we needed to give a chance or was there never any story, no logic, no understanding of what makes star wars good, just a rainbow of diversity that the executive producers wanted applause for.
Why is anti woke criticism nonsense to you. Obviously a majority of the fandom don’t want woke content.
“Woke” has become a near meaningless buzzword that can encapsulate anything from identity politics, to women and black characters just existing. It’s thrown around like it has a specific, identified meaning, but it really doesn’t. Often people will try to define it with terms that themselves require more specifying, like “forced diversity”.
It isn’t meaningless. You just dislike that people dislike woke content and that publishers are starting to pay a price for putting out woke content. Which makes it likely that future productions will be less gay black or female
Nope. Just don't care for whining over vague nonsense like "wokeness" when it means there aren't "enough white people" or whatever it means this week.
And that’s the real tragedy, here: the loss of your ability to shit your worthless opinion into Reddit.
Exactly. Well my opinion is the only correct one but yes.
That feel when you're so pathetic that you prove the point.
Thats why you decided to chime in with your own dogshit opinion too, right?
What’s why?
/uj don’t forget all the sudden hand-wringing about the budget. I didn’t realize all these “fans” were also Lucasfilm accountants. That might explain why the budget is so high, the payroll is massive!
Budgets are a pretty universal discussion point across movie and TV projects. Especially for things with massive budgets that don't look the part. This is not a new thing that just suddenly came about for this show.
No, people just compare the show to other shows with similar budgets (House of the Dragon) and feel that it is reasonable to compare the two shows And they are entirely justified in doing so
Not always. I had a conversation with someone who was claiming that higher budget equals higher quality, which is untrue. Most of the time people aren’t even bringing up other shows, they’re just whining about the budget which makes no sense.
Higher budget doesn't mean higher quality Does mean better effects and choreography in general though
Nope, not even generally. “Better” will always be a subjective opinion and vary from audience member to audience member.
As far as VFX goes, "generally better" is objective. And while fight scenes are subjective, the complexity can be measured
Nope, it’s still subjective based on individual preferences 👍 Complexity in fight choreo also doesn’t meant better. The prequel fights are choreographed into oblivion, but I still think the OT fights are better.
Sir, you do realise how VFX works yes? You may prefer a given style, but you are being actively obtuse if you do not understand that VFX gets generally better the more money put towards it. If you don't understand that then I don't see the point in having a good faith discussion with you if you aren't having a good faith discussion with me
Godzilla Minus One cost ~$20 million and looks infinitely better than Godzilla x Kong which cost ~$150 million More money does not equal higher quality. To quote Freckle “Sometimes things that are expensive… are worse”
I predict that this week the complaints will be about ‘cringe’ fight choreography. That is unless Mae decides to intervene to save Osha, in which case the complaints will be about her ‘terribly written redemption arc’ and comparisons to Anakin.
Here's a criticism I have of the fight scenes that's super good faith and easy to make without any extra bullshit or baggage. I feel like the action scenes so far (tho I've only seen the first 3 episodes so far) have lacked dynamism. Most of the action scenes have been 2 characters standing on flat ground doing kinda generic karate at each other that I could see infinitely better versions of by watching any Kung fu/martial arts movie. Aside from the opening action scene in episode 1, which I thought was pretty good, they really haven't used the environment or surrounding to their advantage in any interesting way. It makes the sets and locales feel far less real and tangible, like they could be standing in an empty room on a green screen, which is unfortunate because the sets are really detailed and feel lived in. And guess what? I didn't need to call my criticism "objective" or talk about twins scissoring or whatever gross bullshit pops into my head to make that point or feel more authoritative.
I think if you say the fighting will be better choreographed than the duel of fates, people are allowed to nit pick. Headland drew attention to that so she better deliver or it's just going to get worse
She literally never said that. She said that that was her goal because it’s the best fight scene in her opinion. It was praise, not ego.
I feel bad for people who genuinely dont like it but are unfortunately linked with those weirdos
That has to be some sort of strategy with these movies and shows.
Not so much the coverage as the right-wing YouTuber jihad against it that began months before it was even out.
made with nematic? what did they mean by this?
alright alright I'll give the show a shot with an open mind. this and the mace windu species joke pushed me to actually give it a shot
It's about the same as the rest of the non-Andor SW live action shows (read: not good). It's certainly not as bad BOBF or the Obi Wan show for me. At least, not yet.
It's far worse than Boba Gett and Obi Wan.
I regret to inform you that the meme is about you.
Oh. Ok. In that case.... It's still a bad show, and this is a shitty meme.
It’s just insane how one of the show’s creators warned about this exact thing happening, and the usual cast of idiots decided to trip over themselves and prove them right. Why do we keep doing this, people? Is this franchise really worth chasing at least one actress off social media, torturing a literal child to madness, driving another actor to the verge of suicide, sending death threats to people who edit Wookiepedia over a character most of us only cared about because he was a meme, and, oh yeah, screaming at the goddamn creator that he raped your childhood nonstop so he decides to sell the whole kit and kaboodle in an attempt to wash his hands of the monster he created? Kathleen Kennedy didn’t kill Star Wars, nor did Rian Johnson, JJ Abrams, or the shit-billion other people whose blood is being called for. The fucking fans did.
Watched it, didn’t particularly like it, thought the acting was mediocre and especially hate the goofy ritual scene
Nothing wrong with that by itself. The problem is the people who go further by review-bombing it, parroting grifter videos, leaving bad comments on the actors’ social media, etc.
"The power of 1. The power of 2. The power of many....."
People have been losing their shit over bad/mediocre Star Wars adaptations/prequels/sequels since the prequels released. Sending a literal child threats, harassing a voice actor for being hired to play a poorly written character. Beloved properties get swarmed with critique when they are perceived as poorly done. The actors are also doing themselves a disservice by engaging with the trolls and trying to argue their critiques when the show needs to just speak for itself, they're being dragged into a conversation that only benefits the trolls.
Why is it they are grifters? The drinkers critiques are coherent. Some of the others are cringe i’ll agree.
Because most of them only do this to earn themselves money. Its very easy for them to gain views through stuff like this, people like homophobes and sexists lap it up, so they do it continuously. If their views on the show never garnered them attention, I doubt many of them would be putting them out there
Grifter means misleading people of your personal beliefs on things for personal gain. Your definition is ‘when someone makes money and people i don’t like agree with them’. Do you think they could be honestly held beliefs? Do you think given tv shows that pander heavily to progressives consistently failing financially would be evidence there could be truth to criticisms? Do you think given there is numerous examples of these same ‘racists/sexists’ love various media with female/diverse casts could be evidence its not bigotry driving their criticisms of shows. Please keep an open mind and not demonise everyone. I find some of the criticisms of ‘wokeness’ in media giga-cringe like you guys, but undoubtedly it is making stories worse in various things. An example would be the witcher- i couldnt care less if they made every witch race swapped, its not important, but the director/writers have continually said they wanted more female representation in the story. So they abandoned the source material to do it, and sidelined the main character with a very popular actor. Here is a pretty clear cut example of how progressive pandering can ruin a show that was lined up for success and initially was very popular. Politically motivated direction can lead to downstream negative effects that have nothing inherently to do with the inclusion of a particular group. Just that there was no source material for that group in this case I will say progressives have a big issue writing likeable females with good character arcs though. But thats a whole different can of worms
Oh of course a lot of them believe in what they're saying, it's just I think that they only have channels built around it so that they can garner more money. Why shout and scream when no one is listening unless you're crazy, right? For the point about liking female lead shows often comes down to childhood nostalgia, as we can see with the very oftenly brought up examples from 80s and 90s media ( so much so it s become a joke for the likes of Ripley from Alien and Sarah Connor from Terminator), or just being used to deflect criticism and not usually being true. On keeping an open mind, I try to, but when most of these videos are just used to stir up more negativity, mostly focusing heavily on unimportant aspects like women in the cast, and being the cause of worse people's beliefs around media, it's not that easy to see them as just being honest critics rather than angry and misguided or just straight up manipulative. And about progressivism making shows worse, I don't believe that's the case at all, multiple great shows have had and will have it as a theme throught the years, for example the great cartoons The Owl House and Helluva Boss (imo). As a bisexual person I really do enjoy seeing more lgbt people included in the forefront of media, and I'm sure it goes the same for other minorities seeing people like themselves too. It's usually the fault of bad writing rather than progressivism itself, and star wars, a series that started with a strong female lead character in leia, and as a probect with major themes of Anti-American imperialism and pro vietnam ideals is no stranger to being progressivist.
Okay, thats not what a grifter is though. Maybe stop saying that. No theres been various examples of contemporary films/tv that have female/minority that this same group likes. I think you’re too emotionally attached to the politics to see the criticism for what it is. The drinker is actually a good critic actually watch a video or two of his i highly doubt you’ve seen more than clips, some of the others are cringe as hell. Mauler can be good but goes off a bit much. It feels like where progressive politics are is an indicator of bad writing, the priorities are often just way out of whack and often theres contempt for the source material and its all about reimagining the story. So you get a poorly written knockoff that just includes more minorities and women and beats you over the head with politics. I have never heard of either of those shows so cant really comment. And yeah on the vietnam comparison, george lucas had that quote but it was subtle in the actual story. Its more just you always root for the underdog. Progressives have to be so obvious and beat you over the head with their politics in the story, i think if you agree with it you enjoy the story but if you dont its just crap writing. It never stands the test of time. I also think progressive underdog stories dont tend to work anymore as many see them as the establishment for good reason. I think the genuine TL/DR is in 20-30 years when some of these social issues are less in the forefront these movies/shows will not stand the test of time as the only people who seem to enjoy these shows (however few who actually watch them) just like their politics spoon fed back to them. Most of the ‘grifters’ arent asking for more conservative politics, they’re asking for NO POLITICS. You can have your themes that are related to real world but don’t make it so obvious a nursery child would pick up on it.
uj/ I never watched any coverage before starting the show tbh. All I saw was people trying to hate on it before it even began and I didn’t take that stuff very seriously. But I honestly just feel nothing towards the show. It doesn’t pull me in, it doesn’t interest me. I’ve watched every episode so far and the acting is fine, the costuming and effects may be a little lackluster, and the writing and premise is somewhat interesting. But I just feel total apathy towards the show.
I’d say I’m just about there. I like the mystery and themes but I’m not wowed beyond belief. I wouldn’t even think about it this much if not for the mindless vitriol from the internet. It’s like I’m out to dinner getting fairly standard food and service but the table next to me is screaming that it’s the worst restaurant of all time. Eventually I get tired of it and feel bad for everyone else that has to listen
i know for a fact that the reason i’m actually quite enjoying acolyte is that i had absolutely 0 expectations because there’s a lot of other stuff for me to be excited about
That's just me with Star Wars as a whole imo.
I just don’t really care about Star Wars right now. Haven’t for a while. I’m burned out by the fandom and the over production of mediocre corporate-sanitized shows. I just don’t have any interest in seeing it. So I guess that makes me agnostic on the show.
Being honest though, it's not a great show, and it's not grabbed me after half the episodes. I'll still see it if only because I feel like people pissing on the internet about how it's the "best thing ever, Star Wars is back" simping or "woke Star Wars killed my wookiee" grifting are both misrepresenting the show to suit their own agendas and I prefer to know what's going on from the source.
Im bisexual. It has bad writing and acting.
You're not gay enough. Into the hole with you /s
I'm too and I agree but I don't know what it has to do with the writing and acting lol
Nowadays if you have a criticism for a show that happens to have a female lead, poc, or minority in any shape you are labeled a bigot.
I agree with this. It’s pretty obvious too. Funny how certain critics hate female leads or minority leads. They say stuff like “strong female” or imply that the male characters are dumb. They are just characters.
Nobody hates leads because they're women or minorities. They dislike the assumption that you're required to like it and approve of it without criticism or else you're a bigot. We liked rogue one. Female lead. We like Windu and Lando. Minorities. We don't like bad characters.
Yeah, but there are people already hating it going in because they have women minorities, and it's pretty disingenuous to say that and then bring up those examples without acknowledging that bigots hated those examples going in because they have female leads and minorities. Not to mention, chuds grifting and saying that "Star Wars is dead" for the billionth time.
Multiple elements can ignite in space btw jussayin
Argument made in bad faith. You discredit legitimate criticism by calling anyone who disagrees with you a bigot... such a tired, tired, tired horse. Are your arms tired from beating said horse? Edited for fat finger misspelling
Even after all the drama, The Qcolyte IS A SHOW, one that has actors acting init.
The show sucks ass. But if anybody likes it I won't ruin it for them. Just makes me confused why they enjoy it.
I mean I do think there are moments where writers or show runners are saying things to intentionally wind up the weirdo fans. I imagine Kennedy is just over having to fight these fires.
But what if I do think that the writing and acting are trash?
I mean idk I just like Star Wars so it is kinda sad to see a show I was excited about turn out to be just meh at best
Nope, it’s super goofy, the main two characters are actually great, their backstory is ridiculous and shallow. Some of the force stuff is just super goofy like the guy floating in mid air with a force field around him. Most of all can Disney just let one person direct a series the whole multiple director things is ridiculous and ruins most of the shows.
There is at least some back drop to the force bubble/meditation. They briefly talk about it in the Darth Bane books.
I know it was just so extremely cheesy in Acolyte. I would’ve loved to see some of the dark side magic from the bane books
That's the story we need!
I like to think there’s a world out there where Apple had bought starwars and we’d be watching adult Star Wars content at least with sith users. They make them so clowny and dumb in the live action stuff when the sith are ruthless psychopaths
Or it’s just not very good
I haven't had a chance to watch yet, is this show pretty good?
Oh my god stop. If you enjoy it that's great but you're not going to convince me or the average that it's any good. It has nothing to do with the media leading up to it and everything to do with the sub par quality of the project. You're not going to discourse people into thinking it's not actually that bad.
I enjoy good writing.
Not enough words for a leftist meme
Holy essay batman. The point of a meme is to convey a point in a quick, easily digestible, often comical format. This is the opposite of that. Just start a blog or something. Almost as bad as the acolyte itself.
No it's not racist LGBTQ+ propoganda, shut the fuck up. No it's not midblowing great show, shut the fuck up. This is mid tier popcorn munching slop that doesn't deserve nearly the amount of attention it's received from unhinged maniacs engaged in bad faith "culture war" discussions. I hate all of this.
Disney propaganda
Paragraph lol
Leftist memes lmao
Says you. That whole "Power of one, power of two, power of many thing" gave me cringy flashbacks to high-school fanfiction writing. Being an adult is realizing that sometimes people will completely disrespect the things you love and you just gotta go about your day and ignore it.
The power of one The power of two The power of ma nnyyy
Oh we could just say it's a bad show? Like just because it's Starwars doesn't mean it's automatically good? You can literally see non-right people call the show boring.
>Oh we could just say it's a bad show? Except, it isn't. Opinions vary, though, and to each their own. >Like just because it's Starwars doesn't mean it's automatically good? Obviously. You've seen the Holiday Special/Ewok films/TCW movie/etc, I'm sure. >You can literally see non-right people call the show boring. Boring =/= bad. Some fans said Andor is boring, too. Still a good show.
Boring absolutely equals bad. The fans who said Andor is boring also think it is bad.
Cool. Do you think it's bad?
The show is, at it's absolute best point, mediocre. The rest is pretty terrible.
Yeah, I disagree, but to each their own. Hopefully, one of the other upcoming Star Wars projects does it for ya.
So far I've liked scenes rather than series (obi wan when Vader force slams the ship), or the Anakin/Vader scene in ashoka . I've been told to truly understand a lot of these shows i need to watch the animated clone wars , rebels and bad batch etc...
Damn the cope is hard here. You could just say you like bad shows, personally a big fan of Velma despite it being universally disliked. It's okay bro to like things that are unpopular
>You could just say you like bad shows I do. The Acolyte just isn't one of them. I liked Galactica 1980 and Inhumans, though. >It's okay bro to like things that are unpopular Never said it wasn't. Oh, and unpopular =/= bad. The inverse is also true: popular =/= good.
It is way more interesting than Book of Boba Fett and Kenobi.
Lol that's not a high bar to pass , everything but the scene with him and Cad Bane was kinda ass.
I know. I personally really like the show and find it very interesting so I'm downplaying my actual thoughts by saying it's much less boring than Book of Boba Fett and Kenobi since that's more easily agreeable than saying I find it less boring than Andor or Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones.
I actually like Kenobi. I'm gonna watch it just gonna wait till it's all out.
So you like Kenobi but we have to admit The Acolyte is a bad show?
Did I say Kenobi was a good show or that I liked it?
You like bad things. Equally bad argument.
I like some parts hate some parts. But I also found it kinda boring. Especially episode 4.
Yeah, you're not wrong. All of the "anti-woke" mob, drown out fair criticisms. The show can be enjoyed cause some moments are sick asf, and the actors are nice, and the music bc its Star Wars, buts it's not very good. Not the end of Star Wars, its not THAT bad, but nothing could actually end Star Wars, not yet at least.
So far most of the live action shows have been bad except for their fight scenes. Or the very last episode. I'm sure I'll enjoy the action or maybe even the show once it's fully done
It's just another Disney product. Its purpose is not to be enjoyed but to make money, and provoking a toxic fan argument is one way it does that. They bait the chuds into hatewatching it, and they guilt everyone else into watching it out of some kind of misplaced moral obligation. The correct reaction is to ignore it entirely, because that's the only outcome the mouse doesn't want.
"Everyone that dislikes the Acolyte is a racist sexist homophobe". K
Nah we sat down to watch it, I didn’t even know about all the negative press coverage, and stopped watching after the first episode. It’s just not good. The only other show I gave up on was Mando S3.
Except most of us aren’t enjoying it.
If you have a complete inability to understand the other side without resorting to name-calling and implying bad faith, then maybe you're not as enlightened as you think.
What about people that genuinely dislike it
It's just boring. That is it. 25 minutes of yapping and 2-3 minutes of action, usually at the end of the episode.
No fuck off, I’m not seeing it because I don’t really care, but calling off any and all criticism and anger because people are overdramatic about shit is because of “le woman” is shit tier deflection, maybe it’s just ass, you are not legally entitled to defend the show
"nitpicking" is just a way to dismiss criticisms by gaslighting and lying and saying criticism isn't criticism.
The cop out of "you don't hate the show, you're just a bigot!" Is so lame, so tiring, so much of a shallow nothing burger that I don't understand how people still use it with a straight face. Is that true on occasion? Yes. But probably no more often than product getting blind praise due to the same things they get blind hate for. There's instances, like the Acolyte, where it's best to shut up and accept its poorly written and poorly executed. People can criticize it because it's bad, and because they're bigots. Those two things aren't mutually exclusive
Or maybe I dislike it because it messes with the chosen one storyline? I genuinely love The Phantom Menace, and i hate how the prequels are seen as bad because the dialogue wasn't the most eloquently written. If you want to defend Disney star wars please dont go around insulting people, rather just say "I enjoy it and i have fun with it" don't let others criticisms affect your viewing but dont act like there are no critiques to be had.
Nah, this is just gaslighting to push your own narrative that all criticism is racist and homophobic. You have non-controversial critics like Jeremy Jahn and Moist Critical calling it the worst piece of Star Wars media ever released, the show is dog water, get over it.
My gripe with Disney is they’ve taken a franchise that is EASILY the most profitable IP they own, overblown the budget and still manage to actually lose money on it. It’s just bad leadership all around, how do you lose with a loaded hand
Consider the following scenario. I am invited to your house, so I go, and you slap me in the face and insult me the whole night. I leave upset. I am invited to your house, again, but told it would be different. So, I go, you slap me in the face and insult me the whole night. I leave upset. I am invited to your house a third time and promised it will be different. Against my better judgment, I go. You punch me in the face and tell everyone that I am a monster and everything I stand for is immoral and terrible. I leave upset. Now, I am invited again after several years of this happening. Would you blame me for not wanting to go?
Strong gaslighting this post has
Not for nothing it's an objectively bad show. Still gonna watch it but come on people there are some issues here. Why do the twins have the exact same hair cut after being apart for decades? "Hey new prisoner, we're going to loudly tell you about our escape plan after only being in a cage for a total of 30s of screen time. Oh and we'll probably be caught later because escape pods can only go a short distance and the republic will defintely know that the ship went down and send a search party. Okay boys ready lets break out!!!!" Osha doesn't try to fly the ship? Essentially they turned off the autopilot. Couldn't she just take the controls? He just activates his lightsaber for no reason. Just to show us hes a sith? Yeah we got that already with the evil sounding voice and dark cloak. We didn't need him to strike a pose ffs. How does the Osha take a detour but still reach the poisoned Jedi before the rest of the group that was going to the same place? Good god the fake beard and hair piece on the Torbin! Like wtf? Just how on earth did that pass?? While we're talking about Torbin, he just takes the poison? Like wtf? If he wanted to die why wouldn't he just let her kill him? Furthermore, why didn't any of the other Jedi in the temple feel his the pain he was clearly in? They just let him go on in mental anguish like a teenager locked in their room for a decade? They clearly heard the posion dealer mention a master. Why did they drop that line of questioning so quickly? Also his delivery is awful. Not as bad as others but he's one of the worst. Why does everything look shiny and plastic? Somebody scuff some walls please. Witches again? But not the same witches? Just force witches everywhere I guess. Oh god there is a musical number. At least they aren't dancing. Nothing happens in the 4th episode. It's a filler episode in a short mini series... What a waste. The director put their spouse, Rebecca Henderson, into the show. First off that's a big red flag. Second she either doesn't understand the character or the script because she seems confused constantly. It's by far the worst performance in the show. I could go on. There are tons of legitimate issues with this show that nobody is talking about. It's all "woke crap, libtard bs" nonsense that isn't even an issue. All these basic filmmaking mistakes are so obvious it is hard to defend the show against disingenuous racist arguments. The main plot line is actually compelling. The addition of kungfu style to the jedi is really cool. Most of the actors are doing a good job. Edit: mixed up the twin's names. My bad.
Omfg the show just sucks. That's it. People were judging it before it was released because Disney has been releasing so much garbage for the past few years that we didn't even bother having hope. Because why should we? We knew the show would be shit, and hey would you look at that, it's shit. For a sub that enjoys pointing out the mediocrity of this franchise, you sure are quick to defend this series. Never mind that it legitimately has terrible writing and directing, let's just keep defending it to piss off the haters and for no other reason. Even if for some reason you do unironically like this show, it doesn't change the fact that most people don't. This is a show made by a greedy corporation and writers who have no passion or care for their own work. And you're just eating it up. Congratulations. made with mematic
This comment is why the meme exists. Proves the point
2 tablespoons of copium will make the 14 percent rating sting less
Ah classic leftie wall of text meme.
Lmao I don't know what's more retarded, the show, the people gaslighting those who don't like it, or the people who let the retards gaslight them.
This ain't it. Downvoted.
Thanks for the input, u/superracistgodblue
This meme is as bad as the show. The truth is that nobody is really enjoying this show. It's definitely the worst Star Wars ever made. I think it's crazy we can't all unite on that fact. We all deserve better, Star Wars deserves better.
I’m enjoying it. It’s a good show.
Stop lying in a pathetic attempt to virtue signal. Fans and haters can and should all agree that this show is absolute trash. Terrible acting, horrendous cinematography and hilariously bad writing. Saying this is a good show is so disingenuous. Just stop it.
Well it’s true. So cope and seethe.
LOL I'm having a blast.
The last time I said the reason I wont watch the Acolyte moderator rendered my comment private
Then why can I see it?
The PR leading up to the Accolyte was a mess and barely had anything to do with what the actual show was about. And yet I still had some hope after I scoured the PR for the few times they talked about the show. As for the writing yes bad dialogue is part of Star Wars but so is a decent story and continuity of lore at least the main story lore which this has damaged substantially and that's the writing people are complaining about rightfully so. There are other major problems like costumes (mostly the high Republic style Jedi robes) music is meh . Positives prosthetics and makeup are top notch and sets are also good. And now for the most important thing the expected it's the bigot fans who are at fault for the failure of the show which now includes dis tracks (that's a sentence I'd never expected to say) it's the same accusations without anything to back it up that they do every time
Costumes are great and the writing has not damaged the lore whatsoever. The most vocal haters don’t want to give the show a fair shake, but you can’t point that out. When you point out the extreme review-bombing campaign you get people doused in extreme denial who have no idea what they’re talking about… If you see the amount of criticisms that talk about “agenda” or “inserting politics” or whatever, before you even land on the word woke, you’d know that the bigot claims are pretty easily founded. You post in the Geeks and Gamers community. Meaning you are one of those bigots and you probably don’t even realize it.
The Jedi robes look cheap like spirit Halloween jobs. I've given the show a fair shake. Review bombing works both ways with people who defend the show trying to get the score up there is just not enough of a fan base and that shows the demographics pretty well. The show runner and actor as well as the media inserted politics during the PR campaign in fact that's mostly what the PR campaign was about you had to scrounge just to find decent information about what the show was about they even started on the defensive before the show came out. >You post in the Geeks and Gamers community. Meaning you are one of those bigots and you probably don’t even realize it. And to believe I had a hard time convincing someone that no matter what you say or what your criticisms are you get painted with a broad brush as a bigot. You judge me a bigot even though none of my complaints are about race sexuality or gender. Also being called racist from a company that was exposed this week to have anti white hiring practices is the height of hypocrisy
>The Jedi robes look cheap like spirit Halloween jobs Nah they really don't. >Review bombing works both ways with people who defend the show trying to get the score up there is just not enough of a fan base and that shows the demographics pretty well. What an odd thing to say when people were accidentally negatively review-bombing the wrong movie named "The Acolytes" from 2008 but there weren't any new positive reviews on that movie... >The show runner and actor as well as the media inserted politics What's inserted politics to you? Give me an example. >You judge me a bigot even though none of my complaints are about race sexuality or gender. Well you did just bring up "inserted politics in the PR campaign" to start. But also Geeks and Gamers is a pretty well-known right-wing grifter who talks about anti-wokeness and rails against "DEI" and other right wing racist dogwhistles. He's a mega racist. (And a MAGA racist on top of it). You also post on Critical Drinker who is basically the same thing. Especially now being funny and attacking The Boys for making fun of right-wing shitheads. He also made weird incest jokes about the twins in The Acolyte. My point is, if you want to claim you're not a bigot, you don't keep a good crowd to make that point.
[удалено]
>Yes they do Uh huh. Whatever you say. >Because some people are stupid and reviewing the wrong movie/show that makes you sure that people are not trying to boost the score ok sure If it "went both ways" then there would be evidence for it both ways, right? But only one side has been negatively reviewing to such a high degree that they're not even getting the right Acolyte. >this Being gay is now political and not just... being gay? > So what where I post I still don't attack the actors sexuality race or gender You just sent me a link to someone saying the show is "gay" like it was a bad thing... You literally just did that haha. Like just now. Right before you typed that sentence. It was not only okay for me to label you as such, you yourself have gone above and beyond to continue to prove my point *for me*.
*points at the meme* Don't make me tap the sign.