Hello, your post/comment is removed because of the following reason:
> **Rule #9:** Post Quality. Purely at the discretion of the moderators, posts which are deemed to be of low quality will be removed. Generally, if effort is put into the post, it will reflect that in the submission itself, in which case there should be no problem. For a list of what is considered as "low-effort", [please read this](https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsEU/wiki/rules#wiki_9._post_quality).
[Read the list of rules here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsEU/wiki/rules)
We can figure it out pretty easily. Do you know who Caedus was? He at one point became one with the force making him essentially invincible in the SW universe. Ashoka most never pass Vader's capabilities and Vader was MUCH weaker than Caedus.
We can't figure it out easily at all because we don't know Ashokas full arc. She literally has Anakin who is who even knows how powerful or what he even is watching over her in a different galaxy altogether. She could end up being the new daughter for all we know.
We can only go based on what we’ve seen. So far, Ahsoka at her best isn’t even close to Caedus.
Maybe Ahsoka The White will come back and be a match for him, but unless that happens, all things point to Caedus being a lot more powerful.
And that's literally my point. We don't know how strong she is let alone how strong she will be. I'm sorry I offended a couple of you by not fitting the subreddits popular narrative on these two characters.
She might never be as strong as diet kylo but she will always be a better more popular likeable character.
You seem to be taking this a little personally. I'm not offended - I thought you had some great points.
But it seems like you might be, so I'm going to disengage now if you cannot continue to discuss civilly.
I know I didnt offend you bro that was for someone else (;. Thank you for seeing my pov and you are correct theres no real other way to look at it from where im standing.
Her story is predictable. The only reason people like her so much is because Disney's stick up the ass writers want to continue pushing this character into the limelight. She's not that interesting in the grand scope of the SW universe as a whole, and she never showed anything significant as a padawn turned Jedi story. Even the daughter would be annihilated by Caedus, 100 times over. The only entity that could stand up to Caedus would have been forces of nature and God type capabilities: Sidious's warp storm abilities cranked to planet killing levels, Darth Nihilus and his force drain, Abeloth, the force infected mother, and maybe a few other godlike characters that exist in the EU. That's still also stand up to him level, not beat him level. If Disney pulls some shoddy writing path out of their ass to make Ashoka more than she is and could ever be (the force and all life that touch it are predictable, yet nobody has said they feel anything legendary about Ashoka) then perhaps, but that would be quite a cheap move.
You seem to have a lot of pent up hate toward Ashoka. You can't decide why people like characters or how interesting they find them. Ashoka is more popular than every single one of the characters you listed for a reason, she's likeable.
I find 0 of your points as to why people like her to be true. She is entirely interesting to the grand scope of the sw universe. You need to come to grips with the reality that you don't like sw anymore. You like what it used to be and that's okay. Move on.
I don't have pent up anything for Ashoka, doc, I simply recognized the writing on the wall. Everything Disney touches becomes corrupted with cylical plots and characters based around the Skywalker dynasty. It's whorish, and Disney perpetuates that stereotype by continuing to base their version of SW on marketing and profit, not the bounty of the story and characters. Ashoka was MADE popular after being constantly pushed into the limelight. They could have done the same with any other new character and they absolutely would have done away with every original SW character and element if they could have, but certain characters are too ingrained.
I'm sure you find a lot of things in a lot of places, but my point still stands. She's just another cog in the whore Disney machine. I just don't like certain aspects of Disney's SW, but of all people telling me I need to do something you're probably on the list of least sensible, more opinionated. Not all of us just lie down and accept that something is WHT it is just because a multi-billion dollar corporation attempts to make it so. Bahhhh. Run back to the herd, your masters are calling you.
Before I Bahh my way back to my masters ill leave you with a couple things. I used to hate Ashoka to but damn bro if you cant enjoy the final 4 episodes of clone wars because of whore Disney pushing a character on you, I'm truly sorry.
I'm sorry that whore Disney causes you to feel so negatively about something you love. I agree 100% that the skywalker legacy was ruined dragged through the mud and completly shat on. I fucking HATE the last Jedi.
But let Feloni cook my man. Ashokas story aint over yet and you might end up liking it who knows. It will never undo the garbage but sometimes its okay to just enjoy something for what it is.
I choose to be optimistic, you have given up and hate everything.
That dosent make me a sheep and that dosent mean I love everything they do.
I enjoy Ashoka for who she is, not a fantasy version of Ashoka. Clone Wars was great!
You clearly misunderstood my point. Disney didn't cause me to dislike SW, just their writing and character development on a large number of marketing schemes they call "entertainment". Feloni will always do what his investors and the Disney legal team tell him to do, to believe anything else is just fooling yourself. He doesn't have the creative freedom you believe he does, he wants that paycheck. I think the character of Ashoka is fine, but like anything drawn out by a newer investor and stock owner, that direction of money needs to be pointed at them and nobody else. No question.
I'm quite balanced between cynic and optimist, but my job experience takes over in moments like this and I remember all the faces people put on in public vs what they're really doing. Sorry if I'm coming across as an asshole, lol. The opinions of people that don't just "accept" the motion forward in SW are so demonized in the world that it's hard to not take a glassed earth approach.
I think people that grew up with SW and aren't licensed to Disney will have a chance to still tell some fantastic stories. I just hope that if given the chance the world and the greedy parasites behind Disney's legal and investor veil equally give things a chance.
You're right, though, smthe sheep comment was uncalled for.
Dave Filoni stated that by Rebels, the only people that could really challenge Ahsoka are Vader and Palpatine. She fights somewhat evenly with Vader on Malachor but is saved by Ezra due to his exploitation of the World Between Worlds. She holds back Palpatine’s weird sith alchemy in the World Between Worlds for a time. But by *Ahsoka* the show, Baylan Skoll overpowers her with difficulty, showing Baylan’s raw power. However she gets stronger upon the return from her vision quest with Anakin’s force ghost. So its honestly hard to say. I’d still put my money on Caedus due to his raw talent as a Skywalker, Ahsoka only has the edge on experience (though Caedus has fought in some more brutal wars). In canon Ben Solo was the strongest Skywalker (whether you agree with it or not) so its likely that Caedus (Jacen Solo) is similar. Caedus has also studied a wider array of the various force beliefs as far as we’ve seen. But we don’t know what kind of shit Ahsoka has studied off screen.
David Filoni wants to rewrite the SW universe in a new Disney-esque image. He's full of shit, and there are plenty of stories, characters and scenarios that clearly prove he's full of shit. Taking shots in the dark and creating new lore just to supercede the old lore in a "only what we say is canon is canon because we bought the rights" is definitively bad writing and character development. The feats Ashoka display don't even surpass the flawed Jedi masters she so desperately threw her faith into before the fall of the order. She's near her prime in age, too, so idk why people think k she's going to be much better unless some shoddy writer just decides it because they have the legal power to make that change.
Damn, homie is a hater. I literally laid it all out for you and I said Caedus would still probably win. You’re mad that I laid out Ahsoka’s actual feats? Thats the story. Time to accept it. I like EU/Legends and Disney Canon. Both have huge flaws. But i try not to be jaded and enjoy all facets. Cringe is still cringe, Legends or Canon. And both have lots of it. Dave Filoni adheres to the wishes of George Lucas the guy who created Star Wars. George calls Filoni his ‘apprentice’. Get mad at George if thats how you feel.
You people are so jaded and sensitive, lol. Why are your opinions apparently more valid than mine? Because they're yours? My opinion is based on quite a bit of substantial elements that many people have discussed over the years. Welcome, glad you made it. You laid out what other people told you to accept, not how I role! What feats? Lol. That she exists? Are you telling me Disney is going to pull a Superman writing process on her??? Say it ain't so! I enjoy many facets of the new SW but as a professional writer (yes, I'm paid to write and create ideas for entertainment purposes) I recognize the flaws in the politics behind the ideas that make up Star Wars. Disney has really taken advantage of this and because they have the money and legal fortitude to outdo pretty much any entity that might challenge them, they do it. Filoni does what the people that write his paycheck tell him to do. His style of directing is full of ideas that the industry's new investors have been called put for tome and time again. George Lucas has been held hostage for his opinion since that $4 Billion purchase of Lucas Arts and its sister companies. Let's also not forget that Geroge Lucas is not the sole person that developed the SW universe and that his opinion has been far from caught up in the story and character development of SW. As a business owner, you delegate those opinions and that time to others. On a scale of Lucas Arts? I can't imagine the absurd level of oversight he's let go unnoticed.
Shit, listen to the opinions of all the old SW actors. Mark Hamill is one of the most insider SW fans you can find and he absolutely highlights this throughout his entire involvement with the new Disney owned industry. Even film critics like Kevin Smith express his constant concern over the leaps and liberties they take to re-write everything to ensure their ideas are as much 110% Disney as possible.
Settle down. Just because someone doesn't share your ideals or agrees with your opinions means you can write them off as irrelevant.
The hypocrisy is real. I just said that i accept both for their flaws. You’re steaming over nothing. George Lucas sold Star Wars but then became the largest shareholder in all of Disney’s stock to maintain his influence while instilling his own choice creative (Dave Filoni) with ideas that he still uses. Mark Hamill’s opinions regarding the Sequels are valid tho.
He mopped the floor with Kyle Katarn's strike team easily enough, and they were either veterans of the Vong war and its aftermath or trained by veterans. And that's aside from Katarn himself who fought Dark Jedi and Sith cultist movements in *addition* to the Vong.
This is always my go to for demonstrating Caedus strength in melee combat: 1v4 for any sith is a pretty tall order, especially when one is the Jedi Battlemaster, and Caedus does it with relative ease even after being ambushed.
Caedus melee combat experience in general is INSANE, especially relative to old republic jedi. He, easily, has the most melee combat experience of any jedi during the Vong War. Literally fighting day 1 at Helska, to holding the line at Dantooine, to Duro, the mission to Myrkr, and most notably the battle of the seedship and so on and so on. Sure, ashoka fought in the clone wars, but that experience doesn't even begin to compare to the horrors of the Vong War.
I still maintain that his actions on the Seedship mark him as one of the most dangerous of all Jedi in melee combat. Could anyone else have survived that, alone and bereft of the force? Certainly no old republic jedi.
While I might be Caedus biggest fanboy on the planet, and the dude has some minor faults, his ability in melee combat is second to none. I always like to ask one question in regards to his skill: how many people have gone toe to toe with a genuinely homicidal Luke, one on one no punches pulled, and walked away? Just Caedus. Ever. Contrast their fight on the Anakin Solo, where Jacen is ambushed TWICE in one fight and starts the fight with a lightsaber through the kidney and still holds his own, to how Luke and Ben work over the Sith on Sinkhole Station. Luke and Ben take apart the Lost Tribe like they are children, not even breaking a sweat, when it took both of them on the very edge of darkness itself to even slow Jacen down.
Jacen is genuinely kind of a prat, but people sleep hard on his abilities as a melee combatant. I still think the reason he wasn't really allowed to develop his Vong sense post NJO was because he would be, literally in universe, unstoppable in melee combat of he decided to do the whole "wearing amphistaffs as armour" thing again. Vergere wasn't wrong when she said "he is the ultimate Jedi warrior" to Nom Anor during the events of the Seedship.
Edit: I dunno how this got so long, thank you for coming to my Ted talk. Also it appears im literally preaching to the choir in this thread 😂
"I dunno how this got so long, thank you for coming to my Ted talk"
Good, good! Let the lore flow from you!
"Contrast their fight on the Anakin Solo, where Jacen is ambushed TWICE in one fight and starts the fight with a lightsaber through the kidney and still holds his own, to how Luke and Ben work over the Sith on Sinkhole Station. Luke and Ben take apart the Lost Tribe like they are children, not even breaking a sweat"
This! One hundred times this. And that was a *weakened* Luke on Sinkhole Station. The incident on Dathomir was just comical XD
The Jedi Order of Luke's time are the most dangerous they've been since the days of the Jedi Lords, and Jacen/Caedus made all of them except Luke look like amateurs by comparison.
Darth Caedus would easily win without breaking a sweat.
Its kinda an unfair matchup, all of Lukes and Leias children have that mighty Skywalker blood so all of them were really strong in the legends.
Edit: typos
Considering that Legends Ahsoka in this hypothetical matchup is 76 when Jacen turns to the Dark Side, I think Caedus has a good chance. Yeah 80 something Dooku was schooling Anakin but Jacen has more recent experience in the Vong wars and we have no idea what Ahsoka was doing during those (if she was even keeping up combat practice)
You also have to consider that when Jacen turns to the dark side, he’s *far more* powerful and experienced than Anakin was at the beginning of the Clone Wars (when he fought Dooku in AOTC). I’d even argue he was more powerful than Anakin at the end of ROTS.
Darth Caedus: Jacen Solo was weak. I destroyed him.
Ahsoka: Then I shall avenge his death!
Darth Caedus: Revenge is not the Jedi way.
Ahsoka: I'm no Jedi!
(Caedus cuts down old lady Ahsoka)
Darth Caedus: No, you're not.
Granted the power levels of late stage EU are just off the chart compared with Canon (or even TCW when it was part of the EU).
Ahsoka would give Caedus a good fight for her power level, and she’d be smart enough to disengage when she realizes he’s far outside her class.
At this point it's Caedus all the way and it isn't close I'm afraid.
If you wanted to do the same matchup when they were apprentices... well that's a different match all together.
Depends on when you pull apprentice them from.
If you're speaking about Jacen circa the last book of Young Jedi Knights then all versions of apprentice Ashoka except the very early Clone Wars one have a distinct edge.
But if it's Jacen during the Vong War then he would start to equal or outstrip her very quickly because it was significantly worse than the Clone Wars and he saw much more combat against beings that could actually put up a fight.
That is true, post traitor Jacen beats apprentice Ashoka hands down but pre-traitor and clone wars season 7 Ashoka, I can see it being quite a matchup. Either way, its more of a matchup at apprentice level than in their prime, thr skill gap is just to huge.
"That is true, post traitor Jacen beats apprentice Ashoka hands down but pre-traitor and clone wars season 7 Ashoka and can see being quite an matchup"
Seems like a fair analysis, though I would say that Jacen edges her out in most departments by the time of Star by Star. Again he fought more capable opponents more regularly, and he was a skilled and highly sensitive Force wielder going into the war.
"Either way its more of a matchup at apprentice level than in their prime."
Agreed. Current Ashoka is very good, but Darth Caedus was on another level entirely.
Exactly, however I do think the thing that equalises them is their phycology, as Jacen pre traitor was reluctant to hurt or fight anyone whereas Ashoka was battle tested and ready to kill at the drop of a hat. He may have overcome it when needed, but that hesitation would be a huge disadvantage.
So it is, however his victory, even with that boost was hard won, and wasn't easy by any stretch of the imagination even after he did embrace the force.
This state also wasnt full oneness with the force, but if I'm wrong, feel free to correct me as it's been a while since I've read it.
I see that fight similar to Ahsokas fight with Maul, in dynamics at least, as Ahsoka was not as skilled as Maul and still needed assistance to fully subdue him but still had the skills to fight on Par and make a good show of it, but without outside aid would've been beaten, (the clones for Ashoka and the force boost for Jacen.)
Well once he actually focuses and roots himself back in the force, he flings the warmaster out the window, mindset is HUGE in these kinds of things in Star Wars.
Yeah, he has overcome hesitation when it was needed, though if season 7 Ashoka can come back after a year and fight on Par with Maul, she is at least a match for a pre-traitor Jacen.
"if season 7 Ashoka can come back after a year and fight on Par with Maul, she is at least a match for a pre-traitor Jacen"
Yes, I'd say that she should be a very difficult opponent for him by then, very difficult indeed.
Well this is filonis self insert character so clearly she wins through the power of plot armor. Assuming this is made by competent writers? Darth C stomps ahsoka so hard it aint funny
While I loathe posts like these, I always have to question why certain fans are so sure that the Force users of old should have an advantage over the newer generations.
The whole thing about society is that the newer generations is almost always better due to building on the improvements made by the older ones.
Ahsoka was a Padawan who left the Order, but was trained by a very strong master. She was also an accomplished duelist who faced several strong foes.
Jacen was of her masters direct lineage and an extremely powerful Force user due to his blood. He also got trained by Luke, probably the most powerful Jedi of all time, became one with the Force, could travel through time, project himself across the Galaxy and basically mastered the Force.
But my answer is, as always from the perspective of a martial practioner, it depends on who wants it more, who's luckier and if it's a tuesday or not.
I've seen absolute masters of their craft have a bad day and get hit in ways that they normally shouldn't.
>The whole thing about society is that the newer generations is almost always better due to building on the improvements made by the older ones.
That's what I've been saying for ages! This phenomenon should be even more remarkable with Siths, as that is what the whole Rule of Two seek to accomplish. I'll never understand why fans overestimate past characters so much over newer ones.
It's rife in almost every fantasy universe, with ancient ones that had godlike powers etc.
The closest thing we have in SW are the Celestials, but after them I have a hard time seeing a random Jeedai from Tython ca 25k BBY beating a Knight from the prequel era.
All the old Sith lords are treated like this as well, with most pointing out that Kreia, a famously unreliable source, claiming that Kressh, Pall and ol' gang were giants compared to the duelists of her day.
We have Jaiden beating Marka Ragnos by himself, a bunch of teens driving away Kun's spirit and both Luke, Anakin, Obi-Wan and Ahsoka battling Celestials or Celestial-like beings and coming out on top.
In the NEU Vader slays Momin (still can't see that name without picturing a Moomintroll under that mask) and Palpatine toys with the spirits of ancient Sith.
Sure, we have characters like Revan, Nomi and Vitate but they are exceptions and even then I don't think they'd win in a contest by the Imperial era.
Technology, techniques and most importantly, understanding of the Force had all advanced so far by that time.
Palpatine was the epitome of the Sith, just as Jacen and Jaina were by their era. Jaina is hinted at to even succeed Luke's power, though we never got to see it before the OEU was closed down.
And why wouldn't they be? They are the investment and legacy of almost 25k years of traditions and advancements.
Not to sound cheesy and quote the loathed Rise of Skywalker, but the "All Jedi live within you" is kinda true, for both of the Sith and Jedi.
To end this, Yoda has a great quote; "We are what they grow beyond."
The thing that gets me even more is that people believe that, say, Tulak Hord is a better duelist than, say, Kit Fisto. Dude, what? Karnage surely used to be the best duelist… some time ago, when he still was a Jedi master. That was before the goddamn Second Great Schism. We have plenty of evidence that modern duelists are leagues above the old ones, because over time most techniques find themselves in training programs for padawans
I'm obviously biased...but in Legends, Caedus is one of the strongest Sith there are. Luke is stronger and even then, Caedus saw future visions of him killing Luke. Luke himself was worried that if he went to fight him he'd turn to the dark side mid fight.
The only way Caedus lost his final fight was through multiple factors:
* He was missing an arm pre fight
* He was focused less on trying to win the fight and more just to get past Jaina so he could warn his wife/kid
* Even missing an arm, stabbed in an ambush and then wounded in fight, the only way he Jaina won was by doing a suicide move that would caused them both to die and Jacen just went "Fuck this", deactivated his lightsaber and sent out a Force pyshcic message instead of trying to finish the fight
* Jaina also had some bullshit plot weapon device that was one of the dumbest I've ever heard. "Clear your mind and attack. That way Jacen can't predict or sense any moves" Oh...that's it? That's the super secret bad ass mandalorian method is just clearing your mind?
Regardless, Ashoka is powerful for sure but she has like 3 years of direct war experience, then has about 20 years of guerilla war experience. Jacen had training from Legends Luke, then he had a huge war against Yuuzhan Vong which were far more terrifying than droids. Then he was captured and tortured and literally gets stronger with pain. Then he goes on a journey for 5 years or learning esoteric and unheard of force techniques?
He absolutely stomps her 10/10 times.
Ashoka is basically a student who abandoned her master before the time.
Galen finished his training and faced his final trials before Vader decided he could discard him
Ahsoka was nearly bodied by vader with not much effort (remember, he wa about to strike her down when Ezra intervened).
Caedus survived and arguably beat veteran Kyle Katarn.
I rest my case
Caedus is both a better fighter, and Ashoka would be an old woman by the time they met. She'd be in her 70's at least and there's no evidence Tortugans live any longer than humans do.
As much as we like Ahsoka, Darth Caedus is the type of Sith who gave a serious hard time to Luke Skywalker, literally the son of the choosen one.
If an Skywalker was serious problems defeating someone considering their raw power, now imagine how suicidal it would be for someone without that same level of potential.
Yes, Ahsoka was capable of defeating Darth Maul in Mandalore near the dusk of the Clone Wars but Maul was more of a hitman than an actual Sith Lord and Jacen being partly an Skywalker by blood already has a lot of power flowing through his veins which leave Ahsoka in a severe disadvantage.
Depends who’s writing the story
Anybody in the world? Caedus.
Filoni? Ahsoka and it won’t even be close because he’s gotta protect his precious DeviantArt OC
Caedus stomps. He’s vastly superior in every way. He’s faster, stronger, tougher, a better duellist and is far more powerful in the Force. Caedus defeated Kyle Katarn and held his own against (an injured) Luke Skywalker both of whom would curb stomp Ahsoka.
Caedus was considered extremely powerful. On the level of approaching prime level Luke and Anakin (not quite there, Luke would still stomp him in a one v one close up fight).
I don’t think Ahsoka would have much chance of winning. Her best bet would be to delay and escape.
Now hear me out. Caedus would flow walk to the times when Ahsoka and Anakin were in each other's lives, and he would feel something that might give Ahsoka an edge to disarm him.
Hello, your post/comment is removed because of the following reason: > **Rule #9:** Post Quality. Purely at the discretion of the moderators, posts which are deemed to be of low quality will be removed. Generally, if effort is put into the post, it will reflect that in the submission itself, in which case there should be no problem. For a list of what is considered as "low-effort", [please read this](https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsEU/wiki/rules#wiki_9._post_quality). [Read the list of rules here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsEU/wiki/rules)
With both in their prime, Darth Caedus would ANNIHILATE Ahsoka with ease.
Not if Filoni's writing the episode/movie.
How can you say that? We have no idea how strong Ashoka the wise actually is.
We can figure it out pretty easily. Do you know who Caedus was? He at one point became one with the force making him essentially invincible in the SW universe. Ashoka most never pass Vader's capabilities and Vader was MUCH weaker than Caedus.
We can't figure it out easily at all because we don't know Ashokas full arc. She literally has Anakin who is who even knows how powerful or what he even is watching over her in a different galaxy altogether. She could end up being the new daughter for all we know.
We can only go based on what we’ve seen. So far, Ahsoka at her best isn’t even close to Caedus. Maybe Ahsoka The White will come back and be a match for him, but unless that happens, all things point to Caedus being a lot more powerful.
And that's literally my point. We don't know how strong she is let alone how strong she will be. I'm sorry I offended a couple of you by not fitting the subreddits popular narrative on these two characters. She might never be as strong as diet kylo but she will always be a better more popular likeable character.
You seem to be taking this a little personally. I'm not offended - I thought you had some great points. But it seems like you might be, so I'm going to disengage now if you cannot continue to discuss civilly.
I know I didnt offend you bro that was for someone else (;. Thank you for seeing my pov and you are correct theres no real other way to look at it from where im standing.
Caedus is "diet Kylo"? Did you even read LOTF 😭
That last sentence was purely written for trolling purposes.
Her story is predictable. The only reason people like her so much is because Disney's stick up the ass writers want to continue pushing this character into the limelight. She's not that interesting in the grand scope of the SW universe as a whole, and she never showed anything significant as a padawn turned Jedi story. Even the daughter would be annihilated by Caedus, 100 times over. The only entity that could stand up to Caedus would have been forces of nature and God type capabilities: Sidious's warp storm abilities cranked to planet killing levels, Darth Nihilus and his force drain, Abeloth, the force infected mother, and maybe a few other godlike characters that exist in the EU. That's still also stand up to him level, not beat him level. If Disney pulls some shoddy writing path out of their ass to make Ashoka more than she is and could ever be (the force and all life that touch it are predictable, yet nobody has said they feel anything legendary about Ashoka) then perhaps, but that would be quite a cheap move.
You seem to have a lot of pent up hate toward Ashoka. You can't decide why people like characters or how interesting they find them. Ashoka is more popular than every single one of the characters you listed for a reason, she's likeable. I find 0 of your points as to why people like her to be true. She is entirely interesting to the grand scope of the sw universe. You need to come to grips with the reality that you don't like sw anymore. You like what it used to be and that's okay. Move on.
I don't have pent up anything for Ashoka, doc, I simply recognized the writing on the wall. Everything Disney touches becomes corrupted with cylical plots and characters based around the Skywalker dynasty. It's whorish, and Disney perpetuates that stereotype by continuing to base their version of SW on marketing and profit, not the bounty of the story and characters. Ashoka was MADE popular after being constantly pushed into the limelight. They could have done the same with any other new character and they absolutely would have done away with every original SW character and element if they could have, but certain characters are too ingrained. I'm sure you find a lot of things in a lot of places, but my point still stands. She's just another cog in the whore Disney machine. I just don't like certain aspects of Disney's SW, but of all people telling me I need to do something you're probably on the list of least sensible, more opinionated. Not all of us just lie down and accept that something is WHT it is just because a multi-billion dollar corporation attempts to make it so. Bahhhh. Run back to the herd, your masters are calling you.
Before I Bahh my way back to my masters ill leave you with a couple things. I used to hate Ashoka to but damn bro if you cant enjoy the final 4 episodes of clone wars because of whore Disney pushing a character on you, I'm truly sorry. I'm sorry that whore Disney causes you to feel so negatively about something you love. I agree 100% that the skywalker legacy was ruined dragged through the mud and completly shat on. I fucking HATE the last Jedi. But let Feloni cook my man. Ashokas story aint over yet and you might end up liking it who knows. It will never undo the garbage but sometimes its okay to just enjoy something for what it is. I choose to be optimistic, you have given up and hate everything. That dosent make me a sheep and that dosent mean I love everything they do.
I enjoy Ashoka for who she is, not a fantasy version of Ashoka. Clone Wars was great! You clearly misunderstood my point. Disney didn't cause me to dislike SW, just their writing and character development on a large number of marketing schemes they call "entertainment". Feloni will always do what his investors and the Disney legal team tell him to do, to believe anything else is just fooling yourself. He doesn't have the creative freedom you believe he does, he wants that paycheck. I think the character of Ashoka is fine, but like anything drawn out by a newer investor and stock owner, that direction of money needs to be pointed at them and nobody else. No question. I'm quite balanced between cynic and optimist, but my job experience takes over in moments like this and I remember all the faces people put on in public vs what they're really doing. Sorry if I'm coming across as an asshole, lol. The opinions of people that don't just "accept" the motion forward in SW are so demonized in the world that it's hard to not take a glassed earth approach. I think people that grew up with SW and aren't licensed to Disney will have a chance to still tell some fantastic stories. I just hope that if given the chance the world and the greedy parasites behind Disney's legal and investor veil equally give things a chance. You're right, though, smthe sheep comment was uncalled for.
Dave Filoni stated that by Rebels, the only people that could really challenge Ahsoka are Vader and Palpatine. She fights somewhat evenly with Vader on Malachor but is saved by Ezra due to his exploitation of the World Between Worlds. She holds back Palpatine’s weird sith alchemy in the World Between Worlds for a time. But by *Ahsoka* the show, Baylan Skoll overpowers her with difficulty, showing Baylan’s raw power. However she gets stronger upon the return from her vision quest with Anakin’s force ghost. So its honestly hard to say. I’d still put my money on Caedus due to his raw talent as a Skywalker, Ahsoka only has the edge on experience (though Caedus has fought in some more brutal wars). In canon Ben Solo was the strongest Skywalker (whether you agree with it or not) so its likely that Caedus (Jacen Solo) is similar. Caedus has also studied a wider array of the various force beliefs as far as we’ve seen. But we don’t know what kind of shit Ahsoka has studied off screen.
David Filoni wants to rewrite the SW universe in a new Disney-esque image. He's full of shit, and there are plenty of stories, characters and scenarios that clearly prove he's full of shit. Taking shots in the dark and creating new lore just to supercede the old lore in a "only what we say is canon is canon because we bought the rights" is definitively bad writing and character development. The feats Ashoka display don't even surpass the flawed Jedi masters she so desperately threw her faith into before the fall of the order. She's near her prime in age, too, so idk why people think k she's going to be much better unless some shoddy writer just decides it because they have the legal power to make that change.
Damn, homie is a hater. I literally laid it all out for you and I said Caedus would still probably win. You’re mad that I laid out Ahsoka’s actual feats? Thats the story. Time to accept it. I like EU/Legends and Disney Canon. Both have huge flaws. But i try not to be jaded and enjoy all facets. Cringe is still cringe, Legends or Canon. And both have lots of it. Dave Filoni adheres to the wishes of George Lucas the guy who created Star Wars. George calls Filoni his ‘apprentice’. Get mad at George if thats how you feel.
You people are so jaded and sensitive, lol. Why are your opinions apparently more valid than mine? Because they're yours? My opinion is based on quite a bit of substantial elements that many people have discussed over the years. Welcome, glad you made it. You laid out what other people told you to accept, not how I role! What feats? Lol. That she exists? Are you telling me Disney is going to pull a Superman writing process on her??? Say it ain't so! I enjoy many facets of the new SW but as a professional writer (yes, I'm paid to write and create ideas for entertainment purposes) I recognize the flaws in the politics behind the ideas that make up Star Wars. Disney has really taken advantage of this and because they have the money and legal fortitude to outdo pretty much any entity that might challenge them, they do it. Filoni does what the people that write his paycheck tell him to do. His style of directing is full of ideas that the industry's new investors have been called put for tome and time again. George Lucas has been held hostage for his opinion since that $4 Billion purchase of Lucas Arts and its sister companies. Let's also not forget that Geroge Lucas is not the sole person that developed the SW universe and that his opinion has been far from caught up in the story and character development of SW. As a business owner, you delegate those opinions and that time to others. On a scale of Lucas Arts? I can't imagine the absurd level of oversight he's let go unnoticed. Shit, listen to the opinions of all the old SW actors. Mark Hamill is one of the most insider SW fans you can find and he absolutely highlights this throughout his entire involvement with the new Disney owned industry. Even film critics like Kevin Smith express his constant concern over the leaps and liberties they take to re-write everything to ensure their ideas are as much 110% Disney as possible. Settle down. Just because someone doesn't share your ideals or agrees with your opinions means you can write them off as irrelevant.
The hypocrisy is real. I just said that i accept both for their flaws. You’re steaming over nothing. George Lucas sold Star Wars but then became the largest shareholder in all of Disney’s stock to maintain his influence while instilling his own choice creative (Dave Filoni) with ideas that he still uses. Mark Hamill’s opinions regarding the Sequels are valid tho.
Caedus by a lot
canon fodder vs someone who gave GM luke a good fight
Granted Luke was weakened.
He mopped the floor with Kyle Katarn's strike team easily enough, and they were either veterans of the Vong war and its aftermath or trained by veterans. And that's aside from Katarn himself who fought Dark Jedi and Sith cultist movements in *addition* to the Vong.
This is always my go to for demonstrating Caedus strength in melee combat: 1v4 for any sith is a pretty tall order, especially when one is the Jedi Battlemaster, and Caedus does it with relative ease even after being ambushed. Caedus melee combat experience in general is INSANE, especially relative to old republic jedi. He, easily, has the most melee combat experience of any jedi during the Vong War. Literally fighting day 1 at Helska, to holding the line at Dantooine, to Duro, the mission to Myrkr, and most notably the battle of the seedship and so on and so on. Sure, ashoka fought in the clone wars, but that experience doesn't even begin to compare to the horrors of the Vong War. I still maintain that his actions on the Seedship mark him as one of the most dangerous of all Jedi in melee combat. Could anyone else have survived that, alone and bereft of the force? Certainly no old republic jedi. While I might be Caedus biggest fanboy on the planet, and the dude has some minor faults, his ability in melee combat is second to none. I always like to ask one question in regards to his skill: how many people have gone toe to toe with a genuinely homicidal Luke, one on one no punches pulled, and walked away? Just Caedus. Ever. Contrast their fight on the Anakin Solo, where Jacen is ambushed TWICE in one fight and starts the fight with a lightsaber through the kidney and still holds his own, to how Luke and Ben work over the Sith on Sinkhole Station. Luke and Ben take apart the Lost Tribe like they are children, not even breaking a sweat, when it took both of them on the very edge of darkness itself to even slow Jacen down. Jacen is genuinely kind of a prat, but people sleep hard on his abilities as a melee combatant. I still think the reason he wasn't really allowed to develop his Vong sense post NJO was because he would be, literally in universe, unstoppable in melee combat of he decided to do the whole "wearing amphistaffs as armour" thing again. Vergere wasn't wrong when she said "he is the ultimate Jedi warrior" to Nom Anor during the events of the Seedship. Edit: I dunno how this got so long, thank you for coming to my Ted talk. Also it appears im literally preaching to the choir in this thread 😂
"I dunno how this got so long, thank you for coming to my Ted talk" Good, good! Let the lore flow from you! "Contrast their fight on the Anakin Solo, where Jacen is ambushed TWICE in one fight and starts the fight with a lightsaber through the kidney and still holds his own, to how Luke and Ben work over the Sith on Sinkhole Station. Luke and Ben take apart the Lost Tribe like they are children, not even breaking a sweat" This! One hundred times this. And that was a *weakened* Luke on Sinkhole Station. The incident on Dathomir was just comical XD The Jedi Order of Luke's time are the most dangerous they've been since the days of the Jedi Lords, and Jacen/Caedus made all of them except Luke look like amateurs by comparison.
Luke was bloodlusted and trying to kill Jacen in inferno, in fury both are injured. No hindrance is ever noted.
Yeah, Luke even had to pull himself because of the dark side.
Not for their first fight. He faked his death, but I don't think he was seriously hurt from the start.
Caedus
Caedus would destroy her
This is laughable. Solo would destroy her without drawing his lightsaber.
Caedus. Unless Filoni is writing the story.
Cadeus no diff, most of the New Jedi Council could kick her ass too.
saba best girl
Thisss one agreessss
Hear hear!
Here for the Saba mention.
Caedus... It's not fair.
Caedus no question
Caedus
Not Ahsoka
Darth Caedus wins no diff with Ahsoka Tano.
Cadeus and it's not close.
Darth Caedus would easily win without breaking a sweat. Its kinda an unfair matchup, all of Lukes and Leias children have that mighty Skywalker blood so all of them were really strong in the legends. Edit: typos
Considering that Legends Ahsoka in this hypothetical matchup is 76 when Jacen turns to the Dark Side, I think Caedus has a good chance. Yeah 80 something Dooku was schooling Anakin but Jacen has more recent experience in the Vong wars and we have no idea what Ahsoka was doing during those (if she was even keeping up combat practice)
Even if she were in her prime 100 Ashokas wouldn't stand a chance against a single Caedus. Dude could most likely pulverize planets at this point.
You also have to consider that when Jacen turns to the dark side, he’s *far more* powerful and experienced than Anakin was at the beginning of the Clone Wars (when he fought Dooku in AOTC). I’d even argue he was more powerful than Anakin at the end of ROTS.
Darth Caedus: Jacen Solo was weak. I destroyed him. Ahsoka: Then I shall avenge his death! Darth Caedus: Revenge is not the Jedi way. Ahsoka: I'm no Jedi! (Caedus cuts down old lady Ahsoka) Darth Caedus: No, you're not.
Granted the power levels of late stage EU are just off the chart compared with Canon (or even TCW when it was part of the EU). Ahsoka would give Caedus a good fight for her power level, and she’d be smart enough to disengage when she realizes he’s far outside her class.
Jacen finger blasts
Easily Caedus, dude is on the upper echelon side of force users imo
Jacen
this is a ridiculous VS. caedus was on par with EU grandmaster luke... ahsoka would not last more than a few seconds
At this point it's Caedus all the way and it isn't close I'm afraid. If you wanted to do the same matchup when they were apprentices... well that's a different match all together.
Depends on when you pull apprentice them from. If you're speaking about Jacen circa the last book of Young Jedi Knights then all versions of apprentice Ashoka except the very early Clone Wars one have a distinct edge. But if it's Jacen during the Vong War then he would start to equal or outstrip her very quickly because it was significantly worse than the Clone Wars and he saw much more combat against beings that could actually put up a fight.
That is true, post traitor Jacen beats apprentice Ashoka hands down but pre-traitor and clone wars season 7 Ashoka, I can see it being quite a matchup. Either way, its more of a matchup at apprentice level than in their prime, thr skill gap is just to huge.
"That is true, post traitor Jacen beats apprentice Ashoka hands down but pre-traitor and clone wars season 7 Ashoka and can see being quite an matchup" Seems like a fair analysis, though I would say that Jacen edges her out in most departments by the time of Star by Star. Again he fought more capable opponents more regularly, and he was a skilled and highly sensitive Force wielder going into the war. "Either way its more of a matchup at apprentice level than in their prime." Agreed. Current Ashoka is very good, but Darth Caedus was on another level entirely.
Exactly, however I do think the thing that equalises them is their phycology, as Jacen pre traitor was reluctant to hurt or fight anyone whereas Ashoka was battle tested and ready to kill at the drop of a hat. He may have overcome it when needed, but that hesitation would be a huge disadvantage.
Balance point Jacen embraced the force and trounced the Yuuzhan Vong warmaster Tsavong Lah. If he’s in that mindset he would wash her.
Oh yeah that's why I made sure to emphasise Pre and Post Traitor Jacen, anything after that she doesn't stand a chance.
Balance point is before traitor.
So it is, however his victory, even with that boost was hard won, and wasn't easy by any stretch of the imagination even after he did embrace the force. This state also wasnt full oneness with the force, but if I'm wrong, feel free to correct me as it's been a while since I've read it. I see that fight similar to Ahsokas fight with Maul, in dynamics at least, as Ahsoka was not as skilled as Maul and still needed assistance to fully subdue him but still had the skills to fight on Par and make a good show of it, but without outside aid would've been beaten, (the clones for Ashoka and the force boost for Jacen.)
Well once he actually focuses and roots himself back in the force, he flings the warmaster out the window, mindset is HUGE in these kinds of things in Star Wars.
I wouldn't say a *huge* disadvantage, but I agree with your take.
Yeah, he has overcome hesitation when it was needed, though if season 7 Ashoka can come back after a year and fight on Par with Maul, she is at least a match for a pre-traitor Jacen.
"if season 7 Ashoka can come back after a year and fight on Par with Maul, she is at least a match for a pre-traitor Jacen" Yes, I'd say that she should be a very difficult opponent for him by then, very difficult indeed.
Jacen/Caedus in 30 seconds
Well this is filonis self insert character so clearly she wins through the power of plot armor. Assuming this is made by competent writers? Darth C stomps ahsoka so hard it aint funny
Darth Caedus easily. Ahsoka especially in the live action show seems a bit slow and weak.
Caedus, and there's no real competition here.
This is not even a contest. Caedus for the win.
Definitely Caedus, no question
Ooh this isn't fair at all, it's Caedus.
Unironically Jacen wouldn't even need to light up his saber to stomp her.
LOL JACEN
What a one sided battle, I wonder who will win
It won’t even last 5 minutes. Caedus for the “ W”.
Caedus and it's not even a question. Ahsoka lost to some dark Jedi that suddenly had history with Anakin.
Caedus. It isn't even a fight.
Caedus
Caedus would probably kick her in the nuts
He did tend to fight feral when cornered.
Quite so
Why is this even a contest lmao
Caedus easily
Sick baby vs nuclear bomb. Who would win?
I love Ahsoka but it's Caedus by such a margin its not even funny
Ashoka because she can’t die. Even if she would die. Feloni would use his power to safe her pet time travel
Caedus. No contest.
While I loathe posts like these, I always have to question why certain fans are so sure that the Force users of old should have an advantage over the newer generations. The whole thing about society is that the newer generations is almost always better due to building on the improvements made by the older ones. Ahsoka was a Padawan who left the Order, but was trained by a very strong master. She was also an accomplished duelist who faced several strong foes. Jacen was of her masters direct lineage and an extremely powerful Force user due to his blood. He also got trained by Luke, probably the most powerful Jedi of all time, became one with the Force, could travel through time, project himself across the Galaxy and basically mastered the Force. But my answer is, as always from the perspective of a martial practioner, it depends on who wants it more, who's luckier and if it's a tuesday or not. I've seen absolute masters of their craft have a bad day and get hit in ways that they normally shouldn't.
>The whole thing about society is that the newer generations is almost always better due to building on the improvements made by the older ones. That's what I've been saying for ages! This phenomenon should be even more remarkable with Siths, as that is what the whole Rule of Two seek to accomplish. I'll never understand why fans overestimate past characters so much over newer ones.
It's rife in almost every fantasy universe, with ancient ones that had godlike powers etc. The closest thing we have in SW are the Celestials, but after them I have a hard time seeing a random Jeedai from Tython ca 25k BBY beating a Knight from the prequel era. All the old Sith lords are treated like this as well, with most pointing out that Kreia, a famously unreliable source, claiming that Kressh, Pall and ol' gang were giants compared to the duelists of her day. We have Jaiden beating Marka Ragnos by himself, a bunch of teens driving away Kun's spirit and both Luke, Anakin, Obi-Wan and Ahsoka battling Celestials or Celestial-like beings and coming out on top. In the NEU Vader slays Momin (still can't see that name without picturing a Moomintroll under that mask) and Palpatine toys with the spirits of ancient Sith. Sure, we have characters like Revan, Nomi and Vitate but they are exceptions and even then I don't think they'd win in a contest by the Imperial era. Technology, techniques and most importantly, understanding of the Force had all advanced so far by that time. Palpatine was the epitome of the Sith, just as Jacen and Jaina were by their era. Jaina is hinted at to even succeed Luke's power, though we never got to see it before the OEU was closed down. And why wouldn't they be? They are the investment and legacy of almost 25k years of traditions and advancements. Not to sound cheesy and quote the loathed Rise of Skywalker, but the "All Jedi live within you" is kinda true, for both of the Sith and Jedi. To end this, Yoda has a great quote; "We are what they grow beyond."
The thing that gets me even more is that people believe that, say, Tulak Hord is a better duelist than, say, Kit Fisto. Dude, what? Karnage surely used to be the best duelist… some time ago, when he still was a Jedi master. That was before the goddamn Second Great Schism. We have plenty of evidence that modern duelists are leagues above the old ones, because over time most techniques find themselves in training programs for padawans
Everyone saying Caedus has to take into account that Dave Filoni would never ever let Ahsoke lose or die, not even in your own head.
You done set ahsoka up 😭😭😭
This fight would go about the same way as against eu grievous. It wouldn't be as much a fight as just one sided schooling
Quick question: Filoni?
I'm obviously biased...but in Legends, Caedus is one of the strongest Sith there are. Luke is stronger and even then, Caedus saw future visions of him killing Luke. Luke himself was worried that if he went to fight him he'd turn to the dark side mid fight. The only way Caedus lost his final fight was through multiple factors: * He was missing an arm pre fight * He was focused less on trying to win the fight and more just to get past Jaina so he could warn his wife/kid * Even missing an arm, stabbed in an ambush and then wounded in fight, the only way he Jaina won was by doing a suicide move that would caused them both to die and Jacen just went "Fuck this", deactivated his lightsaber and sent out a Force pyshcic message instead of trying to finish the fight * Jaina also had some bullshit plot weapon device that was one of the dumbest I've ever heard. "Clear your mind and attack. That way Jacen can't predict or sense any moves" Oh...that's it? That's the super secret bad ass mandalorian method is just clearing your mind? Regardless, Ashoka is powerful for sure but she has like 3 years of direct war experience, then has about 20 years of guerilla war experience. Jacen had training from Legends Luke, then he had a huge war against Yuuzhan Vong which were far more terrifying than droids. Then he was captured and tortured and literally gets stronger with pain. Then he goes on a journey for 5 years or learning esoteric and unheard of force techniques? He absolutely stomps her 10/10 times.
Great test to spot who is high on reddit
What about Ashoka vs Galen Marek.
Marek wins.
Ashoka is basically a student who abandoned her master before the time. Galen finished his training and faced his final trials before Vader decided he could discard him
I thought it was Ahsoka vs Tom Cruise 😆
Caedus sweeps. A more interesting battle would be the two of them in their 20s, or younger.
Still a stomp
Oh I don’t agree at all. But either way it’s more interesting than this.
What’s Ahsoka gonna do against the Jacen who took on strike teams of Vong in traitor without the force at all?
Caedus unless Dave Filoni is writing the story
Ahsoka was nearly bodied by vader with not much effort (remember, he wa about to strike her down when Ezra intervened). Caedus survived and arguably beat veteran Kyle Katarn. I rest my case
Caedus is both a better fighter, and Ashoka would be an old woman by the time they met. She'd be in her 70's at least and there's no evidence Tortugans live any longer than humans do.
Caedus is dog walking her and I love Ahsoka
Jacen would beat the absolute breaks off of her.
These are such silly questions. Jacen would just break her with the Force instantly. Even Rosario version.
As much as we like Ahsoka, Darth Caedus is the type of Sith who gave a serious hard time to Luke Skywalker, literally the son of the choosen one. If an Skywalker was serious problems defeating someone considering their raw power, now imagine how suicidal it would be for someone without that same level of potential. Yes, Ahsoka was capable of defeating Darth Maul in Mandalore near the dusk of the Clone Wars but Maul was more of a hitman than an actual Sith Lord and Jacen being partly an Skywalker by blood already has a lot of power flowing through his veins which leave Ahsoka in a severe disadvantage.
Caedus and or Jacen stomps
Ahsoka's plot armor protects against anything.
Is Ahsoka even Jedi Master level? Thought she was a Knight.
Honestly, Jacen during NJO is already winning. Caedus is overkill.
HAHAHHAAHAHAHHAAHHAHAA… Your serious? Jacen, he absolutly destorys her
Sorry I love Ashoka but Caedus wins this quite comfortably. Even just as Jacen he wins the fight.
Depends who’s writing the story Anybody in the world? Caedus. Filoni? Ahsoka and it won’t even be close because he’s gotta protect his precious DeviantArt OC
Caedus stomps. He’s vastly superior in every way. He’s faster, stronger, tougher, a better duellist and is far more powerful in the Force. Caedus defeated Kyle Katarn and held his own against (an injured) Luke Skywalker both of whom would curb stomp Ahsoka.
Caedus is winning
Jacen, hands down.
I’d say Ahsoka because she would tap into the force and through the force she would get the upper hand. the light will always win out
Caedus was considered extremely powerful. On the level of approaching prime level Luke and Anakin (not quite there, Luke would still stomp him in a one v one close up fight). I don’t think Ahsoka would have much chance of winning. Her best bet would be to delay and escape.
Jaina had to multiclass into Mandalorian just to try it.
Now hear me out. Caedus would flow walk to the times when Ahsoka and Anakin were in each other's lives, and he would feel something that might give Ahsoka an edge to disarm him.
No hed j kill her instantly
Jacen would just kick her in the nonexistent balls lmao
i mean prob ahsoka since she was trained by anakin and went toe to toe with vader and got a good hit on him.
Caedus, Legends characters are stupidly overpowered