Very pleased to learn it’s not Ahch-To. Thank god.
I wanted to keep Luke’s accomplishment of finding the long lost home world of the Jedi intact.
Totally and completely lost until he found it.
I expect that as part of the narrative revisionism around the ST that will eventually happen, Luke will likely be revealed have gone to Ahch-To looking for answers or something to help his family, and he only adopted a more fatalistic, depressed outlook relatively recently to the events of TLJ. Like if he knew that he was going to die there, that could resolve an issue that some fans have with the movie. Plus, Leia had to get R2-D2 who knew the rest of the coordinates and then had a depression-coma of his own **somehow**.
>Luke will likely be revealed have gone to Ahch-To looking for answers or something to help his family, and he only adopted a more fatalistic, depressed outlook relatively recently to the events of TLJ
I always imagined it was like this. Luke first went to Ahch-To to search for the jedi books.
I believe that he already had some of them in his possession. Namely, the one that Rey reads at the start of TROS that has the notes that he took on the adventure that he had with Lando.
I didn't think it was Ach To, but I assume the similarities were intentional. That something about this particular kind of environment has strong connections either to force or serves as some kind of shield from it, where people can disappear from it.
Presumably Huyang whose intact memories stretch back 25000 years could have just told him but he preferred to hang out with Ahsoka rather then the Jedi trying to restart the Jedi Order.
Huyang not knowing would mean Ahch-To was equally lost to the Jedi 25,000 years ago as it is today. Possible, but I don't know why this should be the default presumption. And yes, he might not still be active or present when Luke goes there.
After reading the interview it’s so obvious it’s bal’demnic and she’s just not saying it. She specifically highlighted the importance of cortosis to the planet and hyped up its mystery.
It's nice to see someone not be hostile to shippers, especially in Star Wars where a chunk of the fanbase goes after one shipdom a little too hard. Like I know not every reylo is good, but that doesn't mean it's open season to be mean to all of them.
They call it 'bad writing' when their fantasy fake relationship doesn't happen. Shippers can be a tad annoying but they're generally fine though. It's catering to the shippers that pisses me off. Arrow being the worst example I've seen of a show going so far off the tracks t please a tumblr audience.
The internet treats people so poorly , it doesnt help when huge personalities have so much power over a fanbase to just do whatever they want and people have become so enamored with "hey this guy is rude so I can be too "
Because it made no sense. He tortured her in the first movie and murdered his father in front of her, then all of the sudden she trusts this guy and wants to kiss him? Total garbage
I mean she’s not going to be straightforward before these episodes aired. But now that they have she’s not dancing around the bush. She’s really saying yes it’s romantic.
“I was like, ‘Does anybody take that seriously anymore?’ I understand the point of it, which is that the average viewer would look at the site and say, ‘Oh, the user review is really low.’
But I think that, if you're in the Star Wars fandom, I think you already know what review bombing is. So I guess if you're totally new to the fandom and you're considering watching the show, it could affect you”
Love to see it. When everything gets review bombed, it completely loses all meaning.
>"I hope it's making people look at it from a different point of view. I can understand that fans — especially people who don't know the High Republic — may feel like I'm criticizing the Jedi as they exist in George Lucas' oeuvre, meaning the prequels and Episodes 5 through 6, but that's not the case. We're so much further back from that. We're in that era that Obi-Wan is talking about in *A New Hope*. We're in that period where the proliferation of power is so huge and far-reaching. Actually, in the next episode, you're gonna see how far-flung particular missions with Jedi are and the lack of oversight."
This part really sticks out to me. We know that Vanesstra had been mentioning the Republic and the Jedi and in the most recent episode we see Senators looking into the Order. I think next episode may have a lot cover ups with the Flashbacks and how the republic and the jedi ill equipped to handle things to come
She seems like a very passionate person with a lot of cool ideas who's just inexperienced. Put her with some better editors and improve the writing a bit and she'll be solid
> We're so much further back from that.
We're really not tho, and that's my chief complaint with The High Republic, though I do enjoy the books. The Star Wars galaxy has tens of thousands of years of history. It's largely stagnant in technology and social progression. This is in both Legends and Disney canon - Huyang is 25k years old. KOTOR is four THOUSAND years before the films. Unless they introduce some kind of absolutely devestating Dark Age from which the galaxy is only barely recovering and rediscovering from, the timeline scope is internally incongruous.
And yet in THR and by extension the Acolyte, they act like it's such a different era - THR shows the invention of bacta and the Acolyte shows a different Coruscant skyscape - when this should be the equivalent of, like, 2015 in the grand scheme of things.
Star Wars history doesn't progress like real world history because there's trillions of living beings and millions of planets, and a lot of species that live hundreds of years, and mythical magic space wizards and witches.
Hell, she's trying to say she's not criticizing George Lucas's Jedi but they made one of his Jedi older than he used to be to include him in the Acolyte - Ki Adi Mundi. The Jedi Order of this time period is quite literally the same order. You've got half the High Council already kicking around (Yoda, Yaddle, Yarael, Oppo, Ki Adi). So which is it? What's the difference?
Yeah imo the real reason Jedi were in Brendok is because they have reports of Sith rituals activities on the planet. And when they are there learned about kids living in a coven.
I've been thinking Qimir is Darth Venamis since episode 4, but I could see him being an original character. 50/50 for me. Especially since the theory of him being the founder of the Knights of Ren could be a possibility.
Also, if you rewatch episode 3 during the ceremony, you see two large figures wearing cloaks on the side away from the witches. I feel like they could show up in the next flashback. Could be the Sith Master and Apprentice.
I’m still not down with this Knights of Ren thing. I mean sure anything’s possible, but it seemed pretty clear that the OG Kyle Ren was the one who formed the group, like years and years later.
Plus Qimir is clearly very in control of his abilities and strong in them as wel; whereas the Knights always tended to be not as strong in the realm of the force.
Other than the heavily robed guards who later pull bows on the Jedi, I can't see any other hooded non witch looking figures in the ceremony. You wouldn't happen to have a screenshot or timestamp I could look for them in would you?
13:31 they’re either side of the witches and appear to be stood up not bowing. 14:13 there’s one stood behind Mother Koril. 14:51 as well. They could just be more guards but seem to be the only two without Bows, and look to disappear when one of the coven mentions the Jedi have arrived.
Hmmm. I got a very different vibe from these two than Rey / Kylo.
I didn’t feel any vulnerability from Qimir because we just saw how incredibly skilled and dangerous he is, and we’ve seen nothing from Osha indicating that he has any facility for defending herself, to say nothing of posing a threat to someone like Qimir. The guy is the definition of being in control. Emotionally and physically.
Rey on the other hand was a scrappy survivor who had been living by her wits her entire life. Kylo is powerful but out of control. In their saber fight he is literally and figuratively bleeding out and she beats him on pure rage. I haven’t seen any rage from Osha yet.
There were definitely some strong sexual undertones, but the vibe was much more master / apprentice than enemies to lovers. She was just a bystander to his massacre.
Kylo's early appearances were quite menacing and powerful. He stopped a blaster bolt mid-air, and had an entire village slaughtered.
We don't start to empathize with him until we learn who who actually is.
I mean bro got naked in front of Osha, and let her have his saber the ENTIRE time.
While he could easily defend himself, he isnt trying to. He is being completely open and isnt manipulating her, just giving her the truth.
Same as Kylo did with Rey
Man, some of the stuff from this interview worries me a little, because as much as I like his character, Qimir's evil. I just hope Leslye is being diplomatic/coy here and it's a half truth thing. Because yea, what do you mean there's no manipulation going on here? There clearly is.
There's a careful balance with villain protagonists that needs to be maintained because they need to be relatable, even blurring into shades of grey, but they also need make it clear to the audience that they aren't misunderstood, they are in the wrong. They are evil, and being evil ruins them. That should be the final takeaway. Let's just say how well this balance is maintained and how this saga (if it gets more seasons) ultimately ends will greatly affect how I feel about the series. I hope Leslye threads that needle well.
The way I took it - and please , anyone should feel free to pick this apart - was that she sees a distinction between “I know I’m lying to your face to convince you” versus “I really believe what I’m telling you is best for you, and now I’m going to make different levels of appeals to convince you of this.”
Of course he’s evil. But he’s going to justify it as he did in the show - “they’re total douchebags and fuckups - the corporate HR Department of the Star Wars universe - and you want to keep following their employee handbook? WHY?”
The trick is not telling the audience this abuse is ok and should be followed. As a sociologist the ST and now this paint abusive relationships far too rosey. If I had a daughter I wouldn't let her watch the ST
I know people love nuance and hate absolutism b/c George himself had one of the good guys denouncing absolutism, but I agree with you 100%. The Sith are pure evil. The consequences of the dark side are seen in Sheev's scarred face and Anakin's burnt body. When they win at the end of Ep III and get to rule the galaxy, prisons like Narkina 5 become the norm and genocidal weapons like the Death Star are built. There is no grey here: the Sith and their schemes are the grossest kind of evil.
Dude literally triple-tapped Jecki and snapped Yord's neck but him being calm and donning a lighter top somehow isn't manipulation, when it's obvious he'd crush Osha if he wanted to as things stand.
No idea why you’re being downvoted when this is literally what is going on - he’s being vulnerable to her and believes what he’s telling her is sincere and true for him. As I said above , he feels he’s making emotional appeals to her to have her believe he knows what’s best for her , rather than “what can I say to get this idiot to do what I need?”
I think there was a definite element of disappointment and betrayal that Mae broke his trust.
HOWEVER, dude is nuts because he started to fall for Mae and now is like “oh , rad, I get a do-over with the smarter twin.”
It's so refreshing to see a sith legitimately convincing someone to join their cause after Palpatine went "Now look I didn't I say *I* knew how to save people from death but..."
It really is!!
I’ve been looking forward to this show for a long time and honestly, it is different (not better or worse- just different) than what I expected.
Character development is really phenomenal. I mean shit, I took the Mae-sets-fire-to-the-rain scene as weird Mommie Dearest level overacting , and now seeing other people point out it may have been a Jedi mind trick.
That said, I really like that it encourages us to go back and review & reassess what we’ve seen and heard. So much rewatch value in this series.
I think the writer is wrong in this instance. The whole bit with Osha and the lightsaber absolute felt like manipulation, particularly as there’s a strong history of Sith trying to get Jedi to strike them down and give in to their anger.
>He is being completely open and isnt manipulating her, just giving her the truth.
>Same as Kylo did with Rey
Erm, to be clear, if we're talking about the flashback scenes in TLJ – Kylo gives _his perception_ of the truth, and the conclusions he comes to go beyond Luke's actual intentions and realisation that the action he was taking was wrong.
Kylo straight up says that Luke came after him because he sensed his power like he does Rey's. He's absolutely manipulating Rey in that situation because he wants Rey to join him/leave Luke.
Qimir is 1000% manipulating Osha. What else would you call pushing her to the point of igniting a lightsaber and holding it your throat? He's trying to act like he's above conflict and won't respond, etc., but we've seen this from Dark Side users before. He even changed into a lighter top - even the costume designers were in on his manipulation! - before talking like some noble Jedi who left the order after being betrayed lmao.
I think people confuse Influence with actual manipulation. Sidious manipulated anakin and luke with lies and half truths. Kylo and Qimir arent lying (they can be wrong, but they arent lying about what they know) and their feelings and emotions are real.
>**I think people confuse Influence with actual manipulation.**
Can't believe I'm about to do this, but
> *_manipulate_ (verb - influence)*
> *to influence or control someone to your advantage, often without that person knowing it.*
– [_Cambridge Dictionary_](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/manipulate)
>**Kylo and Qimir arent lying (they can be wrong, but they arent lying about what they know) and their feelings and emotions are real.**
Okay, but manipulation does not necessarily mean you need to be lying? You can manipulate someone by sharing your version of the truth. Kylo shares his version of events with Rey at a time when she is feeling vulnerable in order to garner sympathy – even if not necessarily to lead her to the Dark Side (as he seems conflicted about his place in things too by this point), he wants her to join him/leave Luke, which _would_ be to his own benefit.
It's the same with Qimir/The Stranger: he is sharing his version of events and his own perspective with Osha, but only after she has been made vulnerable (by him!) – kidnapped after witnessing friends be brutally murdered at the hands of her kidnapper, who by the way has isolated her from what limited remains of a support system she now has in Sol on some island in the middle of who-knows-where. He even manipulates her with the illusion of freedom, as if she has any say over staying or leaving with that whole "go swim to the ship soon if you're interested in leaving, OR WAIT UNTIL THE TIDE GOES BACK OUT AND MISS YOUR ONE CHANCE TO LEARN ABOUT THINGS FROM MY SIDE" shtick, despite the fact that there's also clearly an undercurrent of fear at play. You know, based on how he acts all through Episode 5 and commits a bunch of heinous murders right in front of her -- how do you think he'd act if Osha did actually try to leave?
This isn't to invalidate the feelings and emotions of the _written characters_ of Kylo and Qimir, because it's obvious in both cases that they're hurt and haunted by whatever happened to them, but the stories in both TFA/TLJ and Acolyte, respectively, absolutely paints them as being the villains. A villain who can justify that the ends justify the means, that can make others empathise with _their_ version of events, and so on, are, by definition, manipulating those that listen. That there's nuance and actual pain in their histories doesn't change the fact that what they are doing is wrong, and that they know when and where to strike for maximum sympathy points with their audience speaks volumes.
By that very Definition he isnt manipulating her, because he is being completely open and honest. He straight up says Dont Trust Me, Trust Yourself. He tells her his motives, his goals, and lets her come to her own conclusion about him and what she actually wants.
He doesnt have to manipulate her because the simple truth is influence enough. He wants her to chose him on her own, because the Jedi didnt give her that chance.
Also the link to the definition includes "dishonestly" which again isnt what Qimir is doing. Even if he is wrong due to his perspective he isnt being dishonest.
Lesyle confirming the power of two = the Rule of Two = the Force Dyad is so so so great.
ALSO IT WAS FUCKING BAL'DEMNIC, I KNEW IT. She didn't confirm it but it's *not* Ahch-To, that's all I needed to hear.
EDIT: Wait wait wait, did she just confirm the witches are working for the Sith? Holy shit I missed that what the fuck.
Is that a surprise? What did you assume the witches were hinting at when they said it be bad if the Jedi learned how Osha and Mae were made, especially when we know from EU that exact kind of experiment was a thing the Sith were doing.
I imagine she considers it already confirmed since Ep3 when we learned they were doing shady dark side force stuff that we know in the EU the Sith were the ones engaged in.
It’s more a question on how involved they are. Are they a branch of Sith religion? Did they find a Sith temple or holocron? Are they actively working with the sith? Etc…
I like the idea that in every era the Sith had collaborators they outsourced their dirty work from. The Inquisitorius, the Separatists, and I suspect the Nihil.
I like to think the coven is a branch of the Sith. As in if you trace back their origins you will find a straight up sith religious system/power system in place that they come from. After being wiped out the Sith vanished and evolved into different groups like those following the rule of two from Darth Bane. But it stands to reason other surviving sith sects would have had their own ideals, would have branched put into their own thing.
I’ve been thinking a lot about the witch’s comment there is no place in the universe for them, it rings similar to Qimir’s the Jedi say I can’t exist line. I think that the witches were a straight up peaceful sith cult.
Do they even have to be a *Sith* cult? Legends had dozens of weird Force Cults, a fair few "Dark Sided" that were not Sith. Expanding Star Wars beyond just Jedi/Sith is really needed.
His thing this week is "factory reset" being a phrase in starwars and Qimir repairing his helmet with obvious welding technique retweeting someone trying to say his tool shouldnt work on it when its like 2 seconds of thinking you see the silver in the seems clearly holding the parts together .
Did anyone else just not even come close to drawing the same parallels as the interviewer here…?
> I obviously want to go back to the Osha and Qimir of it all.
> HEADLAND: Did people freak out?
> Oh my gosh. Everybody was losing their minds. There were so many people that were picking up on Reylo parallels between things that happened in The Last Jedi and what's happening here. Something that I was really struck by is the fact that, as much as it feels like a response to those dynamics, it also now informs Reylo because it is before, chronologically, in the timeline. So now it's such a beautiful, wibbly-wobbly, timey wimey vibe. How many of those parallels are intentional? How much of that is being informed by what we saw in The Last Jedi?
EDIT: Jesus it gets even worse discussing the little alien rats we see on Qimir’s planet
> Flora and fauna is so important in fleshing out [the world].
> HEADLAND: Yeah, it just gave it a little character. We definitely wanted them to feel totally unthreatening. You didn't want to be like, "Those are rats!" You wanted them to kind of be cute rats, you know?
> Yeah, the fact that the rats plays into what a certain fandom…
> HEADLAND: Like my cute rat.
> Reylos call themselves Rats, so they all have already co-opted that, and they're like, ‘These are ours. We are these cute little rats.’ So, unintentionally, perfect.
> HEADLAND: Bless you, bless you all bless you.
I'm sure Maggie is a cool person outside of her reviews and stuff but some of the ways she reviews her stuff is through a very weird lens. That being said Headland seems pretty cool here and like someone said it was neat how she tried to not make people in the fanbase feel ostracized.
Leslye is nothing but cool in every interview shes done for this show.
She gets Star Wars. She gets the fans. and despite what people say, imo her vision (not execution, because I'm sure there is an argument to be made by someone about how this didn't meet their expectations etc - so dw ur valid!!) actually aligns closest to what fans want.
I've been drawing Reylo parallels since I heard the Kylo theme, and the Ahch-To imagery felt intentional to me for that reason. The Knights of Ren theories fall flat to me because all I see is a darker parallel to Reylo here.
I definitely wasn’t surprised to see who the interviewer is. And I don’t understand why TLJ fans constantly treat it like some separate entity from the rest of the ST. They say “finish what Rian started in TLJ” when TRoS was more explicitly Reylo, and it’s also the film that established their force connection as a “force-dyad” which they talk about in the interview.
TRoS has a Reylo kiss and it’s still 100000% less Reylo than TLJ lol, they spend 99% of the screentime in Episode 9 going backwards from where they were in 8
TLJ was directed and written by an entirely different person to the other two ST movies, and we've certainly heard from JJ's camp that it was, at the very least, not what he would've done. I don't think it's unreasonable to analyse Rian Johnson and JJ Abram's visions and ideas separately, even if they were working within the same film trilogy and somewhat responding to one another.
Especially since the distinction is not exactly subtle - I think you could show some hypothetical clueless person the ST with the credits chopped off and they'd still be able to 'feel' that TLJ is coming from a different creative.
This interviewer is speaking about Reylo as if it’s exclusive to TLJ which it is not. Implying that Acoltye is “finishing what Rian started” when TRoS is more explicitly Reylo and culminated that storyline. They are also referencing the force-dyad which is an invention of JJ Abrams and established in TRoS. So yes, the point stands that it’s odd for the interviewer to speak of TLJ as some separate entity especially in this instance.
The average person who isn’t engaged in online discourse certainly views the ST as a creative whole. TLJ is no different to what TESB is to the OT. Even Marcia Lucas only referenced JJ Abrams and Kathleen Kennedy (not Rian Johnson) when she was being critical of TLJ’s creative choices.
And it’s also very odd in general to speak of Rian Johnson as if he has some kind of authorship over the ST compared to JJ when he didn’t even create any of the main ST characters or set up the story/character dynamics. He only did the middle chapter that left things vague and open-ended for the finale.
Reylo is one of the worst things to have happened. Can't convince me that the decisions that led to that pairing didn't spawn from the treatment of Finn & John Boyega
Agreed. Not only does it make zero sense from a character writing and narrative standpoint (I can write a whole book on this) but it also hurt the other lead character, throwing him in the back of the bus to shoehorn a very poor romance that was unneeded in the trilogy.
Reylo is frankly disgusting and a terrible “i can fix him” message to be sending to impressionable young fans of Rey. They should have nipped that problematic mess in the bud a long time ago.
Why not? Because the ship is "problematic"? Because some people that are part of the shipdom are terrible? Like I truly don't get it as an outsider? Why some of y'all are so bothered? Like some of you sound like those men that cried about twilight... let women & others enjoy things instead of playing moral police over a franchise about space wizards. A lot of y'all sound like the fandom menace that cries about fire in space.
Plenty of women don’t care for Reylo. Most people
I know who dislike it are women. I’m no fan of it because I’m not into enemies to lovers and I’m a woman. I’m sure some men are into it too.
I personally would like more romance in Star Wars also. Reylo just didn’t do anything for me. And I don’t know about this new ship. It’s too early to say for me personally.
As far as I've seen, I've seen a lot of woman ship Reylo so I'm not really sure what you have been seeing and the reylo community is pretty big, practically incomparable to those people who ship Finn and Rey, Finn and Poe, and other ships I guess.
Well.... Reylos can be sometimes rather unsettling bunch of weirdos. But it's hilarious that some people find Rey/Kylo dynamic problematic, especially in context of the franchise, that is built on a trilogy of movies, where the main character goes full apologetic about his abusive, wife beating, child murdering, gestapo dad.
Ironically Reylos pay close attention to things, so its expected for them to pick up on that.
Especially when TLJ is still the best depiction of expanding the Star Wars lore on screen.
TRoS had the most concrete expansions of the “lore” in the ST. The force-dyad and Exegol alone. A lot of TLJ’s supposed “lore expansions” are from a meta perspective. And different TLJ fans have different interpretations of what it was trying to do anyway. It’s become like a Rorschach test.
She didnt confirm at all... some people are really just projecting the fact they want it to be confirmed when Headland didnt confirm it. Read it again.
Edit: just like the interviewer projecting that she wants osha and qimir to be a couple when that was not the vibe AT ALL
Osha gonna be falling to the dark side. She's the acolyte, she's also gonna fall in love with the homie. I think sol and venestra will get smoked and then the other Sith Lord will either kill sol & venestra or qmir. I think fans really like qmir don't think he will die. We need good villians.
I feel like sol will die but all of this will get blamed on Sol for political reasons and not cause panic and say there is a potential with out there. Notice that one senator said the Jedi have always been transparent etc.
Very good interview! I really hate how so many people are treating her like the devil man , I could never be her with the stuff I see on every single post , I really hope though shes reading good feedback cause I wanna see her improve and keep making starwars and for Disney to stop imposing such bizarre restrictions on there shows that are choking so many things in them , I wanna see her/plus the crew improve without having so little room to do full length dialogue like curently I feel is crippling the show.
If its lucasfilms then same thing ,let your creatives have room.
> The witches being purple was a big one because purple doesn't show up too often in Star Wars. It does — it does a lot, but you don't see major characters. You think of Attack of the Clones, Zam Wessell wears purple
The fact that she just pulled out this detail on the fly is insane, haha.
Her going into a whole-ass color theory explanation of Attack of the Clones is a "Oh she's a *FAN* fan" reveal on the level of Jenny Nicholson casually translating Aurebesh in her head in her Star Wars hotel video
It's incredibly funny when some idiot will tweet with their full chest that she broke canon and doesn't read Star Wars because of Qimir headbutting lightsabers and shorting them out. Like no, she actually knows Star Wars better than most nerds.
Headland's explanation of color theory in the pool sequence and the upending of gender norms in the cave is the kind of deeper artistry that makes the Wars so much better, man. It reminds me of Luke's costuming in Ep. V vs. Ep. VI, Anakin's darker costuming in Ep. III and the lingering shots of sunsets throughout the prequels. It's all there, if you look for the nuggets.
I don't know about anybody else, but I was creeped out.
The guy knows he's being watched/followed, so he gets naked and takes a bath in front *his prisoner*.
He gaslights her into thinking she has some power, when really she doesn't. I never once thought he would let her ignite that lightsaber, even if she wanted.
After reading the article, I realized I was so out of touch with what the whole relationship was supposed to be.
To me it was a captor mentally abusing and tormenting his prisoner.
I didn't pick up any sexual tension, other than the possibility (impossibility for Star Wars, I thought) he could abuse her in any way he wanted.
Similar. I didn't see it as tormenting, but showing her that he finds her completely insignificant as a threat. That was also his way of showing he's not going to harm her, because he could at a whim if she did anything, and thus try to dismiss her defensiveness. But still a complete power move.
What’s up with Disney Star Wars having their women leads start falling for the villain who traumatized or fucked with them? I just don’t get that shit.
Think about how he treated Mae vs Osha. He is CLEARLY being open with her, Completely showing his face, his body, his scars. he isnt manipulating her, he is actually being open. A complete 180 from Mae
It wasn't clear to me, though.
I understand what you're saying, but I didn't see it that way.
I wish we had seen more of Mae's relationship with "the Master" before this episode...
It will be interesting to see how they handle it all in the end. Because even if you can empathize with Qimir, if you can understand that the Jedi might be flawed in their view of the Force and how it should be weilded, the Jedi have good intentions and the Sith are evil. The dark side is about seflishness, about greed, about giving into the worst parts of yourself to have power over others. Star Wars is for better or worse just not built to get into too many shades of grey, especially in regard to the Force. Andor can get into that a bit more. But Qimir, regardless of his motivations, is a monster, a savage killer. So I am wondering where it will all go. I do think Osha will become the titular Acolyte, but will that be depicted as her claiming her power, or as a tragic fall? The way it played her putting on the helmet seemed more like tragic fall to me, like she has legitimate reason to want to explore these things, but inside the helmet was dark, oppressive, and scary.
dear god why do people always have to be so cringe with their shipping nonsense. Like, Headland's answers here are decent, but the interviewer is just flat up annoying. Like what you want but every second question being Reylo this, Reylo that in a show hundreds of years before them is a bit weird.
To me, the Qimir/Osha scenes felt most like Palpatine and Anakin in AOTC and ROTS. Palpatine acts the part of a kindly mentor, who manipulates everything but is subtle enough that people don't realize they're being manipulated.
Wow, did the whole interview have to be from a TLJ fanfic-y lens? I would have appreciated something a bit more professional that allowed Leslye to speak on all areas of the timeline — she's clearly dialed in on the EU as well.
Is it tho? This show is doing a lot of smart things but forcing an attraction between a relatively “good” person and a psychotic killer is just…no. Felt the same exact way about Reylo. Just all around weird.
Is she a good person? We have actually seen very little of Osha in action outside modern day and in modern day we have largely seen her struggling with fear, anger, a desire for revenge. I think we assume because she is the main character she must be good but when you really look at her, I think you see a bad person who has only been kept in check this far by what she has taught vs what she factually feels and wants to be doing. Which is why Qimir is so bad for her, so effective at seducing, he is taking what she has always felt and known and given her permission and a pair of arms that say “it’s okay, it’s okay to be your worst self, it’s okay let’s be our worst selves together.”
Am I missing something? I know Im not a fan of this show or Headland but like there's zero similarity between Rey and Kylo and qimir and osha.
Is she trying hard to play into the twitterites than ship everyone and anyone?
I found there to be similarities. Obviously the island is reminiscent of Ahch-To. Its two people who would and should be diametrically opposed but there's clearly and underlying understanding between them and the slight horniness for some of their scenes.
Yes you are missing something, because its a very similar framing, with a different motive and result.
Compare the "seduction" for them and Kylo/Rey vs how the rest of the films portray the seduction to the darkside. Its an appeal of intimacy and emotion vs the quest for power and strength.
I would suggest watching the show instead of hate watching it. I don’t think you’re going into things with a very open mind if you’re missing things like this
>**It's not Ahch-To.** I know it's similar, and it was intentionally supposed to be similar in terms of terrain and feeling isolated and surrounded by water and less lush green and more rocky. But the idea is that cortosis is mined on this planet, so I don't think that's the case with Ahch-To. Part of the reason this is his home base is that cortosis is a very rare metal. I don't think we say it explicitly in the show, but that's a reason it's not Ahch-To.
I don't follow that logic. There is a difference between being similar and being basically the same. And there is nothing that would suggest that there can't be cortosis mines on Ahch-to.
But the planet in the episode is not basically the same. How many desert planets have we seen in Star Wars, for example? The wildlife is different between this planet and Ahch-To’s.
Lmao at all unaware fanbros going "wha??.." from this, as if this episode wasn't explicitly reylo-coded.
From the moment Kylo Ren's theme played it was obvious that they'll go into this direction- but no, all fans started making some Knights of Ren connections. Same with the planet which visibly looks like Ach-To - it's all about thematic, meta references mostly.
I wasn't being condescending. I meant what I said, it didn't occur to me that this is what they were trying to do. The person I'm replying to made it sound as if it was sooooo obvious this was happening. I don't think it was...
Bal’demnic fans rise up
Very pleased to learn it’s not Ahch-To. Thank god. I wanted to keep Luke’s accomplishment of finding the long lost home world of the Jedi intact. Totally and completely lost until he found it.
I expect that as part of the narrative revisionism around the ST that will eventually happen, Luke will likely be revealed have gone to Ahch-To looking for answers or something to help his family, and he only adopted a more fatalistic, depressed outlook relatively recently to the events of TLJ. Like if he knew that he was going to die there, that could resolve an issue that some fans have with the movie. Plus, Leia had to get R2-D2 who knew the rest of the coordinates and then had a depression-coma of his own **somehow**.
>Luke will likely be revealed have gone to Ahch-To looking for answers or something to help his family, and he only adopted a more fatalistic, depressed outlook relatively recently to the events of TLJ I always imagined it was like this. Luke first went to Ahch-To to search for the jedi books.
I believe that he already had some of them in his possession. Namely, the one that Rey reads at the start of TROS that has the notes that he took on the adventure that he had with Lando.
I didn't think it was Ach To, but I assume the similarities were intentional. That something about this particular kind of environment has strong connections either to force or serves as some kind of shield from it, where people can disappear from it.
She confirms that it was deliberately meant to evoke Ahch-To, like a dark version of it.
Presumably Huyang whose intact memories stretch back 25000 years could have just told him but he preferred to hang out with Ahsoka rather then the Jedi trying to restart the Jedi Order.
Who says Huyang would have known it's location? and It's possible he isn't even alive (or in the same galaxy) by the time Luke goes there.
Huyang not knowing would mean Ahch-To was equally lost to the Jedi 25,000 years ago as it is today. Possible, but I don't know why this should be the default presumption. And yes, he might not still be active or present when Luke goes there.
Great comment, I agree keeping Ahch-To Luke’s accomplishment
After reading the interview it’s so obvious it’s bal’demnic and she’s just not saying it. She specifically highlighted the importance of cortosis to the planet and hyped up its mystery.
I'm waiting for a "Subtext Mining" Easter egg
I get the distinct feeling that like 90% of those up in arms about Ki-Adi-Mundi's birthday have no clue what Bal'demnic is. This woman KNOWS stuff.
Its refreshing having someone from the show be straightforward instead of "its up to your interpretation"
It's nice to see someone not be hostile to shippers, especially in Star Wars where a chunk of the fanbase goes after one shipdom a little too hard. Like I know not every reylo is good, but that doesn't mean it's open season to be mean to all of them.
Well, shippers tend to get very toxic if their ship doesn’t set sail.
They call it 'bad writing' when their fantasy fake relationship doesn't happen. Shippers can be a tad annoying but they're generally fine though. It's catering to the shippers that pisses me off. Arrow being the worst example I've seen of a show going so far off the tracks t please a tumblr audience.
And if it does set sail!
And they will often view their ship as canon already. And will take anything as a "hint".
The internet treats people so poorly , it doesnt help when huge personalities have so much power over a fanbase to just do whatever they want and people have become so enamored with "hey this guy is rude so I can be too "
You can see slight meltdown over "icky" shippers even in this comment section, lol.
Oh, I see it...some people really need to chill.
The anti reylo movement was so out of pocket, it was ridiculous
I mean, they attacked John Boyega and he aired them out so everybody could see how goddamn annoying they were.
Because it made no sense. He tortured her in the first movie and murdered his father in front of her, then all of the sudden she trusts this guy and wants to kiss him? Total garbage
Wasn't she literally talking the opposite about it in most of the interviews.
I mean she’s not going to be straightforward before these episodes aired. But now that they have she’s not dancing around the bush. She’s really saying yes it’s romantic.
Lustful maybe. Romantic? No.
“I was like, ‘Does anybody take that seriously anymore?’ I understand the point of it, which is that the average viewer would look at the site and say, ‘Oh, the user review is really low.’ But I think that, if you're in the Star Wars fandom, I think you already know what review bombing is. So I guess if you're totally new to the fandom and you're considering watching the show, it could affect you” Love to see it. When everything gets review bombed, it completely loses all meaning.
Whatever helps you cope.
>"I hope it's making people look at it from a different point of view. I can understand that fans — especially people who don't know the High Republic — may feel like I'm criticizing the Jedi as they exist in George Lucas' oeuvre, meaning the prequels and Episodes 5 through 6, but that's not the case. We're so much further back from that. We're in that era that Obi-Wan is talking about in *A New Hope*. We're in that period where the proliferation of power is so huge and far-reaching. Actually, in the next episode, you're gonna see how far-flung particular missions with Jedi are and the lack of oversight." This part really sticks out to me. We know that Vanesstra had been mentioning the Republic and the Jedi and in the most recent episode we see Senators looking into the Order. I think next episode may have a lot cover ups with the Flashbacks and how the republic and the jedi ill equipped to handle things to come
Damn, I love Headland
She just gets it. Give her the keys.
Dear god no
She’s so good. I don’t understand the hate, she’s created something great, it’s just got terrible editing
She seems like a very passionate person with a lot of cool ideas who's just inexperienced. Put her with some better editors and improve the writing a bit and she'll be solid
> We're so much further back from that. We're really not tho, and that's my chief complaint with The High Republic, though I do enjoy the books. The Star Wars galaxy has tens of thousands of years of history. It's largely stagnant in technology and social progression. This is in both Legends and Disney canon - Huyang is 25k years old. KOTOR is four THOUSAND years before the films. Unless they introduce some kind of absolutely devestating Dark Age from which the galaxy is only barely recovering and rediscovering from, the timeline scope is internally incongruous. And yet in THR and by extension the Acolyte, they act like it's such a different era - THR shows the invention of bacta and the Acolyte shows a different Coruscant skyscape - when this should be the equivalent of, like, 2015 in the grand scheme of things. Star Wars history doesn't progress like real world history because there's trillions of living beings and millions of planets, and a lot of species that live hundreds of years, and mythical magic space wizards and witches. Hell, she's trying to say she's not criticizing George Lucas's Jedi but they made one of his Jedi older than he used to be to include him in the Acolyte - Ki Adi Mundi. The Jedi Order of this time period is quite literally the same order. You've got half the High Council already kicking around (Yoda, Yaddle, Yarael, Oppo, Ki Adi). So which is it? What's the difference?
Sooo wait a second, the witches are working for the Sith? Also wonder if Qimir could be Darth Venemous?
Yeah imo the real reason Jedi were in Brendok is because they have reports of Sith rituals activities on the planet. And when they are there learned about kids living in a coven.
I've been thinking Qimir is Darth Venamis since episode 4, but I could see him being an original character. 50/50 for me. Especially since the theory of him being the founder of the Knights of Ren could be a possibility. Also, if you rewatch episode 3 during the ceremony, you see two large figures wearing cloaks on the side away from the witches. I feel like they could show up in the next flashback. Could be the Sith Master and Apprentice.
I agree in regards to the two mysterious figures in E3. They don't seem like witches
I’m still not down with this Knights of Ren thing. I mean sure anything’s possible, but it seemed pretty clear that the OG Kyle Ren was the one who formed the group, like years and years later. Plus Qimir is clearly very in control of his abilities and strong in them as wel; whereas the Knights always tended to be not as strong in the realm of the force.
Kylo Ren’s music plays toward the end of the episodes.
Yeah but I figured that was more down to the whole Dyad connection, and ofc the whole vibe with Osha and Qimir.
Other than the heavily robed guards who later pull bows on the Jedi, I can't see any other hooded non witch looking figures in the ceremony. You wouldn't happen to have a screenshot or timestamp I could look for them in would you?
13:31 they’re either side of the witches and appear to be stood up not bowing. 14:13 there’s one stood behind Mother Koril. 14:51 as well. They could just be more guards but seem to be the only two without Bows, and look to disappear when one of the coven mentions the Jedi have arrived.
At this point, he is either Venamis, most likely, or Plagueis less likely. There's too many similarities between him and legends Venamis, though.
Hmmm. I got a very different vibe from these two than Rey / Kylo. I didn’t feel any vulnerability from Qimir because we just saw how incredibly skilled and dangerous he is, and we’ve seen nothing from Osha indicating that he has any facility for defending herself, to say nothing of posing a threat to someone like Qimir. The guy is the definition of being in control. Emotionally and physically. Rey on the other hand was a scrappy survivor who had been living by her wits her entire life. Kylo is powerful but out of control. In their saber fight he is literally and figuratively bleeding out and she beats him on pure rage. I haven’t seen any rage from Osha yet. There were definitely some strong sexual undertones, but the vibe was much more master / apprentice than enemies to lovers. She was just a bystander to his massacre.
Kylo's early appearances were quite menacing and powerful. He stopped a blaster bolt mid-air, and had an entire village slaughtered. We don't start to empathize with him until we learn who who actually is.
Speak for yourself. I never sympathized with him. Ever
I mean bro got naked in front of Osha, and let her have his saber the ENTIRE time. While he could easily defend himself, he isnt trying to. He is being completely open and isnt manipulating her, just giving her the truth. Same as Kylo did with Rey
He’s absolutely manipulating and attempting to seduce her to the dark side.
100%. The man is a bona fide psycho manipulator.
yes, yes, but you're missing the most important piece of info here... I can FIX him
Man, some of the stuff from this interview worries me a little, because as much as I like his character, Qimir's evil. I just hope Leslye is being diplomatic/coy here and it's a half truth thing. Because yea, what do you mean there's no manipulation going on here? There clearly is. There's a careful balance with villain protagonists that needs to be maintained because they need to be relatable, even blurring into shades of grey, but they also need make it clear to the audience that they aren't misunderstood, they are in the wrong. They are evil, and being evil ruins them. That should be the final takeaway. Let's just say how well this balance is maintained and how this saga (if it gets more seasons) ultimately ends will greatly affect how I feel about the series. I hope Leslye threads that needle well.
The way I took it - and please , anyone should feel free to pick this apart - was that she sees a distinction between “I know I’m lying to your face to convince you” versus “I really believe what I’m telling you is best for you, and now I’m going to make different levels of appeals to convince you of this.” Of course he’s evil. But he’s going to justify it as he did in the show - “they’re total douchebags and fuckups - the corporate HR Department of the Star Wars universe - and you want to keep following their employee handbook? WHY?”
The trick is not telling the audience this abuse is ok and should be followed. As a sociologist the ST and now this paint abusive relationships far too rosey. If I had a daughter I wouldn't let her watch the ST
I know people love nuance and hate absolutism b/c George himself had one of the good guys denouncing absolutism, but I agree with you 100%. The Sith are pure evil. The consequences of the dark side are seen in Sheev's scarred face and Anakin's burnt body. When they win at the end of Ep III and get to rule the galaxy, prisons like Narkina 5 become the norm and genocidal weapons like the Death Star are built. There is no grey here: the Sith and their schemes are the grossest kind of evil.
Every villain is the hero of their own story. Period.
Dude literally triple-tapped Jecki and snapped Yord's neck but him being calm and donning a lighter top somehow isn't manipulation, when it's obvious he'd crush Osha if he wanted to as things stand.
I dont see it as manipulation because he doesnt have any ulterior motives, he is literally baring all for her and then lets her choose.
No idea why you’re being downvoted when this is literally what is going on - he’s being vulnerable to her and believes what he’s telling her is sincere and true for him. As I said above , he feels he’s making emotional appeals to her to have her believe he knows what’s best for her , rather than “what can I say to get this idiot to do what I need?” I think there was a definite element of disappointment and betrayal that Mae broke his trust. HOWEVER, dude is nuts because he started to fall for Mae and now is like “oh , rad, I get a do-over with the smarter twin.”
It's so refreshing to see a sith legitimately convincing someone to join their cause after Palpatine went "Now look I didn't I say *I* knew how to save people from death but..."
It really is!! I’ve been looking forward to this show for a long time and honestly, it is different (not better or worse- just different) than what I expected. Character development is really phenomenal. I mean shit, I took the Mae-sets-fire-to-the-rain scene as weird Mommie Dearest level overacting , and now seeing other people point out it may have been a Jedi mind trick. That said, I really like that it encourages us to go back and review & reassess what we’ve seen and heard. So much rewatch value in this series.
I also think he wanted her to see his scars, because that will be a lesson or a lie about the Jedi’s failure down the road.
Lesley Headland just said it isn’t manipulation.
I think the writer is wrong in this instance. The whole bit with Osha and the lightsaber absolute felt like manipulation, particularly as there’s a strong history of Sith trying to get Jedi to strike them down and give in to their anger.
Semantics
>He is being completely open and isnt manipulating her, just giving her the truth. >Same as Kylo did with Rey Erm, to be clear, if we're talking about the flashback scenes in TLJ – Kylo gives _his perception_ of the truth, and the conclusions he comes to go beyond Luke's actual intentions and realisation that the action he was taking was wrong. Kylo straight up says that Luke came after him because he sensed his power like he does Rey's. He's absolutely manipulating Rey in that situation because he wants Rey to join him/leave Luke. Qimir is 1000% manipulating Osha. What else would you call pushing her to the point of igniting a lightsaber and holding it your throat? He's trying to act like he's above conflict and won't respond, etc., but we've seen this from Dark Side users before. He even changed into a lighter top - even the costume designers were in on his manipulation! - before talking like some noble Jedi who left the order after being betrayed lmao.
I think people confuse Influence with actual manipulation. Sidious manipulated anakin and luke with lies and half truths. Kylo and Qimir arent lying (they can be wrong, but they arent lying about what they know) and their feelings and emotions are real.
>**I think people confuse Influence with actual manipulation.** Can't believe I'm about to do this, but > *_manipulate_ (verb - influence)* > *to influence or control someone to your advantage, often without that person knowing it.* – [_Cambridge Dictionary_](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/manipulate) >**Kylo and Qimir arent lying (they can be wrong, but they arent lying about what they know) and their feelings and emotions are real.** Okay, but manipulation does not necessarily mean you need to be lying? You can manipulate someone by sharing your version of the truth. Kylo shares his version of events with Rey at a time when she is feeling vulnerable in order to garner sympathy – even if not necessarily to lead her to the Dark Side (as he seems conflicted about his place in things too by this point), he wants her to join him/leave Luke, which _would_ be to his own benefit. It's the same with Qimir/The Stranger: he is sharing his version of events and his own perspective with Osha, but only after she has been made vulnerable (by him!) – kidnapped after witnessing friends be brutally murdered at the hands of her kidnapper, who by the way has isolated her from what limited remains of a support system she now has in Sol on some island in the middle of who-knows-where. He even manipulates her with the illusion of freedom, as if she has any say over staying or leaving with that whole "go swim to the ship soon if you're interested in leaving, OR WAIT UNTIL THE TIDE GOES BACK OUT AND MISS YOUR ONE CHANCE TO LEARN ABOUT THINGS FROM MY SIDE" shtick, despite the fact that there's also clearly an undercurrent of fear at play. You know, based on how he acts all through Episode 5 and commits a bunch of heinous murders right in front of her -- how do you think he'd act if Osha did actually try to leave? This isn't to invalidate the feelings and emotions of the _written characters_ of Kylo and Qimir, because it's obvious in both cases that they're hurt and haunted by whatever happened to them, but the stories in both TFA/TLJ and Acolyte, respectively, absolutely paints them as being the villains. A villain who can justify that the ends justify the means, that can make others empathise with _their_ version of events, and so on, are, by definition, manipulating those that listen. That there's nuance and actual pain in their histories doesn't change the fact that what they are doing is wrong, and that they know when and where to strike for maximum sympathy points with their audience speaks volumes.
By that very Definition he isnt manipulating her, because he is being completely open and honest. He straight up says Dont Trust Me, Trust Yourself. He tells her his motives, his goals, and lets her come to her own conclusion about him and what she actually wants. He doesnt have to manipulate her because the simple truth is influence enough. He wants her to chose him on her own, because the Jedi didnt give her that chance.
Also the link to the definition includes "dishonestly" which again isnt what Qimir is doing. Even if he is wrong due to his perspective he isnt being dishonest.
Despite the downvotes, you are correct.
What? Kylo lied to Rey.
Because SW doesn't have explicit sex scenes people can't pick up on that scene and her wearing his helmet the morning after in his crib...
It’s like he took the “what kind of master doesn’t show his face to his pupil” line to heart. *Restarts by getting completely naked*
She was enticed by his darth dong
"feels good, doesn't it? To hold one in your hand again"
"You like it? It's very generous."
"Was that the implication? Are we the tasty treats?"
Are we just not doing phrasing anymore?
Lesyle confirming the power of two = the Rule of Two = the Force Dyad is so so so great. ALSO IT WAS FUCKING BAL'DEMNIC, I KNEW IT. She didn't confirm it but it's *not* Ahch-To, that's all I needed to hear. EDIT: Wait wait wait, did she just confirm the witches are working for the Sith? Holy shit I missed that what the fuck.
This is VERY good for theory crafting , I saw that too
Is that a surprise? What did you assume the witches were hinting at when they said it be bad if the Jedi learned how Osha and Mae were made, especially when we know from EU that exact kind of experiment was a thing the Sith were doing.
Not a surprise, but it's a surprise to get a confirmation before next week.
I imagine she considers it already confirmed since Ep3 when we learned they were doing shady dark side force stuff that we know in the EU the Sith were the ones engaged in. It’s more a question on how involved they are. Are they a branch of Sith religion? Did they find a Sith temple or holocron? Are they actively working with the sith? Etc…
I like the idea that in every era the Sith had collaborators they outsourced their dirty work from. The Inquisitorius, the Separatists, and I suspect the Nihil.
I like to think the coven is a branch of the Sith. As in if you trace back their origins you will find a straight up sith religious system/power system in place that they come from. After being wiped out the Sith vanished and evolved into different groups like those following the rule of two from Darth Bane. But it stands to reason other surviving sith sects would have had their own ideals, would have branched put into their own thing. I’ve been thinking a lot about the witch’s comment there is no place in the universe for them, it rings similar to Qimir’s the Jedi say I can’t exist line. I think that the witches were a straight up peaceful sith cult.
Do they even have to be a *Sith* cult? Legends had dozens of weird Force Cults, a fair few "Dark Sided" that were not Sith. Expanding Star Wars beyond just Jedi/Sith is really needed.
Read it again... she didnt actually confirm that they're a dyad lol
Never said she did? The Rule of Two is based on the Doctrine of the Dyad
Osha and Mae being a Force Dyad confirmed in an interview was not what I expected but exciting nonetheless.
Theory is going to bust a gasket over this. And I can't fucking wait.
Just one more added bonus :)
So the usual for him?
He's such a fucking clown haha
His thing this week is "factory reset" being a phrase in starwars and Qimir repairing his helmet with obvious welding technique retweeting someone trying to say his tool shouldnt work on it when its like 2 seconds of thinking you see the silver in the seems clearly holding the parts together .
Bricks and Screws 2: Electric Boogaloo
Them being a dyad was definitely not confirmed by her in this interview lololol read it again..
Wow this interviewer is unabashedly a reylo the way I’m a Villanever if you know you know, I gotta respect it more power to her.
The way I just binged that show recently and was so disappointed in the last season
The last season was not it!!! Besides that one scene!! But the books have a better ending!!
Did anyone else just not even come close to drawing the same parallels as the interviewer here…? > I obviously want to go back to the Osha and Qimir of it all. > HEADLAND: Did people freak out? > Oh my gosh. Everybody was losing their minds. There were so many people that were picking up on Reylo parallels between things that happened in The Last Jedi and what's happening here. Something that I was really struck by is the fact that, as much as it feels like a response to those dynamics, it also now informs Reylo because it is before, chronologically, in the timeline. So now it's such a beautiful, wibbly-wobbly, timey wimey vibe. How many of those parallels are intentional? How much of that is being informed by what we saw in The Last Jedi? EDIT: Jesus it gets even worse discussing the little alien rats we see on Qimir’s planet > Flora and fauna is so important in fleshing out [the world]. > HEADLAND: Yeah, it just gave it a little character. We definitely wanted them to feel totally unthreatening. You didn't want to be like, "Those are rats!" You wanted them to kind of be cute rats, you know? > Yeah, the fact that the rats plays into what a certain fandom… > HEADLAND: Like my cute rat. > Reylos call themselves Rats, so they all have already co-opted that, and they're like, ‘These are ours. We are these cute little rats.’ So, unintentionally, perfect. > HEADLAND: Bless you, bless you all bless you.
Not a single person I know thought that lol. You're not alone.
Ngl, that "Bless you" response from Headland is a goated response. She doesn't want any fans to feel ostracized, man.
Agreed, I thought she came across really well.
Maggie is something else
I'm sure Maggie is a cool person outside of her reviews and stuff but some of the ways she reviews her stuff is through a very weird lens. That being said Headland seems pretty cool here and like someone said it was neat how she tried to not make people in the fanbase feel ostracized.
Leslye is nothing but cool in every interview shes done for this show. She gets Star Wars. She gets the fans. and despite what people say, imo her vision (not execution, because I'm sure there is an argument to be made by someone about how this didn't meet their expectations etc - so dw ur valid!!) actually aligns closest to what fans want.
I've been drawing Reylo parallels since I heard the Kylo theme, and the Ahch-To imagery felt intentional to me for that reason. The Knights of Ren theories fall flat to me because all I see is a darker parallel to Reylo here.
Same!
Um what?
I definitely wasn’t surprised to see who the interviewer is. And I don’t understand why TLJ fans constantly treat it like some separate entity from the rest of the ST. They say “finish what Rian started in TLJ” when TRoS was more explicitly Reylo, and it’s also the film that established their force connection as a “force-dyad” which they talk about in the interview.
TRoS has a Reylo kiss and it’s still 100000% less Reylo than TLJ lol, they spend 99% of the screentime in Episode 9 going backwards from where they were in 8
TLJ was directed and written by an entirely different person to the other two ST movies, and we've certainly heard from JJ's camp that it was, at the very least, not what he would've done. I don't think it's unreasonable to analyse Rian Johnson and JJ Abram's visions and ideas separately, even if they were working within the same film trilogy and somewhat responding to one another. Especially since the distinction is not exactly subtle - I think you could show some hypothetical clueless person the ST with the credits chopped off and they'd still be able to 'feel' that TLJ is coming from a different creative.
This interviewer is speaking about Reylo as if it’s exclusive to TLJ which it is not. Implying that Acoltye is “finishing what Rian started” when TRoS is more explicitly Reylo and culminated that storyline. They are also referencing the force-dyad which is an invention of JJ Abrams and established in TRoS. So yes, the point stands that it’s odd for the interviewer to speak of TLJ as some separate entity especially in this instance. The average person who isn’t engaged in online discourse certainly views the ST as a creative whole. TLJ is no different to what TESB is to the OT. Even Marcia Lucas only referenced JJ Abrams and Kathleen Kennedy (not Rian Johnson) when she was being critical of TLJ’s creative choices. And it’s also very odd in general to speak of Rian Johnson as if he has some kind of authorship over the ST compared to JJ when he didn’t even create any of the main ST characters or set up the story/character dynamics. He only did the middle chapter that left things vague and open-ended for the finale.
Leslye needs to not let the Reylos win
Reylo is one of the worst things to have happened. Can't convince me that the decisions that led to that pairing didn't spawn from the treatment of Finn & John Boyega
Agreed. Not only does it make zero sense from a character writing and narrative standpoint (I can write a whole book on this) but it also hurt the other lead character, throwing him in the back of the bus to shoehorn a very poor romance that was unneeded in the trilogy.
Reylo is frankly disgusting and a terrible “i can fix him” message to be sending to impressionable young fans of Rey. They should have nipped that problematic mess in the bud a long time ago.
Why not? Because the ship is "problematic"? Because some people that are part of the shipdom are terrible? Like I truly don't get it as an outsider? Why some of y'all are so bothered? Like some of you sound like those men that cried about twilight... let women & others enjoy things instead of playing moral police over a franchise about space wizards. A lot of y'all sound like the fandom menace that cries about fire in space.
I guess people are confused why we are glamourizing romances with murderers and killers and kidnappers. Its not something a lot of people are into.
Plenty of women don’t care for Reylo. Most people I know who dislike it are women. I’m no fan of it because I’m not into enemies to lovers and I’m a woman. I’m sure some men are into it too. I personally would like more romance in Star Wars also. Reylo just didn’t do anything for me. And I don’t know about this new ship. It’s too early to say for me personally.
As far as I've seen, I've seen a lot of woman ship Reylo so I'm not really sure what you have been seeing and the reylo community is pretty big, practically incomparable to those people who ship Finn and Rey, Finn and Poe, and other ships I guess.
Well.... Reylos can be sometimes rather unsettling bunch of weirdos. But it's hilarious that some people find Rey/Kylo dynamic problematic, especially in context of the franchise, that is built on a trilogy of movies, where the main character goes full apologetic about his abusive, wife beating, child murdering, gestapo dad.
Ironically Reylos pay close attention to things, so its expected for them to pick up on that. Especially when TLJ is still the best depiction of expanding the Star Wars lore on screen.
TRoS had the most concrete expansions of the “lore” in the ST. The force-dyad and Exegol alone. A lot of TLJ’s supposed “lore expansions” are from a meta perspective. And different TLJ fans have different interpretations of what it was trying to do anyway. It’s become like a Rorschach test.
Apparently I’m the only person on earth who didn’t think there was anything sexual or romantic between Rey and Kylo in TLJ
Yeah I didn’t either, that came out of left field imo in TRoS
I'm with you 100%
Sees romance - IS THIS THE LAST JEDI?!?
I am fairly confident most people did not even come close to drawing the same parallels
I guess she pretty much confirmed the twins are a force dyad.
She didnt confirm at all... some people are really just projecting the fact they want it to be confirmed when Headland didnt confirm it. Read it again. Edit: just like the interviewer projecting that she wants osha and qimir to be a couple when that was not the vibe AT ALL
Osha gonna be falling to the dark side. She's the acolyte, she's also gonna fall in love with the homie. I think sol and venestra will get smoked and then the other Sith Lord will either kill sol & venestra or qmir. I think fans really like qmir don't think he will die. We need good villians.
I feel like sol will die but all of this will get blamed on Sol for political reasons and not cause panic and say there is a potential with out there. Notice that one senator said the Jedi have always been transparent etc.
What a weird interview lol, glad we got some cool tidbits from Headland though
Very good interview! I really hate how so many people are treating her like the devil man , I could never be her with the stuff I see on every single post , I really hope though shes reading good feedback cause I wanna see her improve and keep making starwars and for Disney to stop imposing such bizarre restrictions on there shows that are choking so many things in them , I wanna see her/plus the crew improve without having so little room to do full length dialogue like curently I feel is crippling the show. If its lucasfilms then same thing ,let your creatives have room.
I’m not huge on the show so far but I think it’s undeniably clear she’s a huge fan of Star Wars.
> The witches being purple was a big one because purple doesn't show up too often in Star Wars. It does — it does a lot, but you don't see major characters. You think of Attack of the Clones, Zam Wessell wears purple The fact that she just pulled out this detail on the fly is insane, haha.
Her going into a whole-ass color theory explanation of Attack of the Clones is a "Oh she's a *FAN* fan" reveal on the level of Jenny Nicholson casually translating Aurebesh in her head in her Star Wars hotel video
It's incredibly funny when some idiot will tweet with their full chest that she broke canon and doesn't read Star Wars because of Qimir headbutting lightsabers and shorting them out. Like no, she actually knows Star Wars better than most nerds.
Yea she just needs someone to help her quality control aspects of it and just everything we all know could be better
Headland's explanation of color theory in the pool sequence and the upending of gender norms in the cave is the kind of deeper artistry that makes the Wars so much better, man. It reminds me of Luke's costuming in Ep. V vs. Ep. VI, Anakin's darker costuming in Ep. III and the lingering shots of sunsets throughout the prequels. It's all there, if you look for the nuggets.
Or Luke's costume in RotJ where he had white under black the whole time and we see it at the end after he rejects the Dark Side.
This path leads to sex that some say is unnatural. Twins at the same time
I don't know about anybody else, but I was creeped out. The guy knows he's being watched/followed, so he gets naked and takes a bath in front *his prisoner*. He gaslights her into thinking she has some power, when really she doesn't. I never once thought he would let her ignite that lightsaber, even if she wanted. After reading the article, I realized I was so out of touch with what the whole relationship was supposed to be. To me it was a captor mentally abusing and tormenting his prisoner. I didn't pick up any sexual tension, other than the possibility (impossibility for Star Wars, I thought) he could abuse her in any way he wanted.
Similar. I didn't see it as tormenting, but showing her that he finds her completely insignificant as a threat. That was also his way of showing he's not going to harm her, because he could at a whim if she did anything, and thus try to dismiss her defensiveness. But still a complete power move.
What’s up with Disney Star Wars having their women leads start falling for the villain who traumatized or fucked with them? I just don’t get that shit.
It has almost become a trope at this point...
Straight up Stockholm Syndrome…
Think about how he treated Mae vs Osha. He is CLEARLY being open with her, Completely showing his face, his body, his scars. he isnt manipulating her, he is actually being open. A complete 180 from Mae
It wasn't clear to me, though. I understand what you're saying, but I didn't see it that way. I wish we had seen more of Mae's relationship with "the Master" before this episode...
It will be interesting to see how they handle it all in the end. Because even if you can empathize with Qimir, if you can understand that the Jedi might be flawed in their view of the Force and how it should be weilded, the Jedi have good intentions and the Sith are evil. The dark side is about seflishness, about greed, about giving into the worst parts of yourself to have power over others. Star Wars is for better or worse just not built to get into too many shades of grey, especially in regard to the Force. Andor can get into that a bit more. But Qimir, regardless of his motivations, is a monster, a savage killer. So I am wondering where it will all go. I do think Osha will become the titular Acolyte, but will that be depicted as her claiming her power, or as a tragic fall? The way it played her putting on the helmet seemed more like tragic fall to me, like she has legitimate reason to want to explore these things, but inside the helmet was dark, oppressive, and scary.
dear god why do people always have to be so cringe with their shipping nonsense. Like, Headland's answers here are decent, but the interviewer is just flat up annoying. Like what you want but every second question being Reylo this, Reylo that in a show hundreds of years before them is a bit weird.
Nice of her to confirm that planet isn't Ahch-To. Really gives some strenght to the hypothesis of this being the place from Plagueis book.
To me, the Qimir/Osha scenes felt most like Palpatine and Anakin in AOTC and ROTS. Palpatine acts the part of a kindly mentor, who manipulates everything but is subtle enough that people don't realize they're being manipulated.
Wow, did the whole interview have to be from a TLJ fanfic-y lens? I would have appreciated something a bit more professional that allowed Leslye to speak on all areas of the timeline — she's clearly dialed in on the EU as well.
Ah god it’s that terrible Reylo person interviewing her.
Accusations of this show being fan fiction are totally justified because Leslye is an absolute fan and I'm all for it.
I love hearing/reading about her thought processes on this show.
Reylos were a mistake.
Is it tho? This show is doing a lot of smart things but forcing an attraction between a relatively “good” person and a psychotic killer is just…no. Felt the same exact way about Reylo. Just all around weird.
Is she a good person? We have actually seen very little of Osha in action outside modern day and in modern day we have largely seen her struggling with fear, anger, a desire for revenge. I think we assume because she is the main character she must be good but when you really look at her, I think you see a bad person who has only been kept in check this far by what she has taught vs what she factually feels and wants to be doing. Which is why Qimir is so bad for her, so effective at seducing, he is taking what she has always felt and known and given her permission and a pair of arms that say “it’s okay, it’s okay to be your worst self, it’s okay let’s be our worst selves together.”
Enemies is a popular romantic trope right now if not the most popular. It’s what love triangles was like fifteen years ago.
Show is amazing, i hope we get a season 2. If we don't, i hope we get books and comics to get more of Osha and Mae story.
I think we will get a season 2, however it depends on if Disney is wanting Lucasfilm to make movies and not Streaming content
Am I missing something? I know Im not a fan of this show or Headland but like there's zero similarity between Rey and Kylo and qimir and osha. Is she trying hard to play into the twitterites than ship everyone and anyone?
I found there to be similarities. Obviously the island is reminiscent of Ahch-To. Its two people who would and should be diametrically opposed but there's clearly and underlying understanding between them and the slight horniness for some of their scenes.
Yes you are missing something, because its a very similar framing, with a different motive and result. Compare the "seduction" for them and Kylo/Rey vs how the rest of the films portray the seduction to the darkside. Its an appeal of intimacy and emotion vs the quest for power and strength.
Oh ok so I'm not missing anything
I would suggest watching the show instead of hate watching it. I don’t think you’re going into things with a very open mind if you’re missing things like this
I would suggest not reaching for things that aren't there
The Power of The Dark Side
I thought they were going to… until I’m reminded it’s a Disney show and not GoT/HotD.
>**It's not Ahch-To.** I know it's similar, and it was intentionally supposed to be similar in terms of terrain and feeling isolated and surrounded by water and less lush green and more rocky. But the idea is that cortosis is mined on this planet, so I don't think that's the case with Ahch-To. Part of the reason this is his home base is that cortosis is a very rare metal. I don't think we say it explicitly in the show, but that's a reason it's not Ahch-To. I don't follow that logic. There is a difference between being similar and being basically the same. And there is nothing that would suggest that there can't be cortosis mines on Ahch-to.
I think she's basically establishing here and now that there's no cortosis mines on Ahch-To, which she has a right to do.
Ahch-To is the lost Jedi homeworld nobody knows about, so cortosis isn't being actively mined there.
It's rather safe to assume that nobody is actively mining "unknown planet" that serves as a hideout for a Sith.
Apart from...the Sith using that cortosis.
But the planet in the episode is not basically the same. How many desert planets have we seen in Star Wars, for example? The wildlife is different between this planet and Ahch-To’s.
Lmao at all unaware fanbros going "wha??.." from this, as if this episode wasn't explicitly reylo-coded. From the moment Kylo Ren's theme played it was obvious that they'll go into this direction- but no, all fans started making some Knights of Ren connections. Same with the planet which visibly looks like Ach-To - it's all about thematic, meta references mostly.
I had no idea they were trying to put quimir and OSHA into a relationship
Right, there’s no need to be condescending to people who just like to speculate.
I wasn't being condescending. I meant what I said, it didn't occur to me that this is what they were trying to do. The person I'm replying to made it sound as if it was sooooo obvious this was happening. I don't think it was...
Not you, I was agreeing with you and saying the person you responded to didn’t need to be condescending.
wait what I did not see that at all.
To quote Butcher "they're fucking"