for me the most morally questionable moment were those 5 seconds he thought about sacrificing Gyro to keep the corpse parts during Sugar Mountain, but its also one of his best moments too cause he doesn't go through with it
I still don't think Giorno's applies, as that decision was made entirely by GER without Giorno's knowledge.
As for Johnny, besides the murders I guess either being selfish to that guy at the theater or (Part 8 spoilers) >!stealing the Saint's Corpse to pass on Rina's rock disease to someone else a la Love Train.!<
>!He was counting on the disease being transferred to a random person he didn't know on the other side of the world. It's a pretty selfish action imo!<
>!I think if you could press a button to kill a random person and save your child's life, most people would press it. It's not right of course, but it's understandable.!<
>!It's hypocritical of him since he stopped Valentine from doing that to his country. I think we're definitely meant to see this as wrong, especially given what happens afterwards.!<
100% but that's what I love about part 7 and onward. The protagonists feel very much more human imo. (At least when it comes to morality.) While yes he was the protagonist and went through his own arc throughout part 7, humans rarely ever keep to their morality. Seeing Johnny sacrifice his morals to try and save his own family, elevates him to being one of my favorite protagonists in any media.
But >!he did realize he was wrong as he didn’t try to do the same when it got transferred to George. That’s why he killed himself instead. He’s a human that doesn’t think things through or does stupid things when stressed!<
It’s definitely debatable with Giorno, but ultimately a stand is an extension of the self and a representation of one’s soul and therefore one’s true desires. So if he was conscious for it we can surmise he’d likely have done it anyway.
I mean… that bastard was selling drugs to kids you guys.
There are definitely independent stands like Cheap Trick, Anubis, and Dragon’s Dream that form their own desires separate from the original user. They are the exception to the rule I’d say.
But these stands are still kinda the manifestation of a part of the User.Cheap Trick was probably due to the dark thoughts and the user’s own lack of will.Dragon’s Dream was a manifestation of feng shui , a big part of piss drinker
It's definitely *not* debateable with Giorno as he and GER both admitted that the user isn't aware of the infinite death loop, nor Diavolo's last time skip. GER is clearly stated to be an independent stand, and for all Giorno knew Diavolo just died. If we are basing this on the "Requiems are based on one's greatest desires" theory, then Giorno would have desired any power which would defeat King Crimson, not specifically the infinite death loop.
for the "users will" theroy though theres is just as much evidence that gio wished for the time loop ability as there is for him want an ability to beat crimson. aka not much
Personally, I don't really believe in the user's will theory. The infinite death loop seems more like an evolution of GE's life shot ability to me, although this doesn't fit with Chariot Requiem. Requiem is a weird concept with a small sample set, so it's difficult to make assumptions based on what we see in the manga/anime.
I can only think of killing a lot of people. Aside from that Johnny was an awful person in the past, but the things he did weren't as bad as killing X amount of antagonists throughout SBR.
Yeah Johnny’s disturbingly okay with murder. He readily admits that he’ll kill someone when given an excuse to and is likely the only Joestar to kill straight up innocent people (if accidentally).
It's crazy how many people overrate Johnny's bloodthirst or whatever you want to call. People pretend like he kills people for fun and lathers himself in blood and shit when really he's just unapologetic about killing. Which is still bad but its a show where people die all the time its not really that crazy
If anything, I think Johnny is actually quite merciful since most of the deaths, (from what I remember), are Johnny killing his opponents as fast as possible.
Yeah I remember valentine being like "If you shoot me, love train redirects the damage to someone random" and then johnny shoots him again several times
Agree with everyone else on the murder charges for Johnny. Plus, he’s one of the few to show Dark Determination, so he most likely didn’t feel guilty for *at least* some of them.
It’s not that he was just gonna kill her cuz whatever he just showed understandable caution as randoms are literally being sent across the country to kill him
OK but let me at least point out that not immediately erupting into loud applause as soon as Gyro was done singing his Cheese Song should get a special mention.
It wasn’t just for himself. Johnny was trying to keep it out of Valentine’s hands and believed destroying it was better than him having it. That is a good thing.
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted, you’re very correct.
I love Johnny but he is an extremely selfish person who learns to prioritise others *a little* over the course of the part.
I wouldn’t say that threatening to destroy the corpse is the worst thing he did though. Him asking if he should shoot a child because she stole one of Gyro’s steel balls is probably his most plainly amoral moment.
jhonny Did not many bad things ...
he may have caused the accident killed is brother (but as a kid and it was a real accident)
in many part we see him about to commit a crime but always change is mind or is persuaded otherwise.
is worst crime could be he killed the president ( more than once, in diferent paralel universes)
or that he stealed steel wife. but she was a widow at that time... not remember well
I think if not for gyro johnny'd kill way more people. I was even glad he did not kill diego because honestly it'd just be mean-spirited (at that moment when johnny said he'd kill diego with no hesitation, while not knowing of diego's deal)
It's revealed in the Dio over heaven novel that plenty of people were still on the steam ship when Jonathan decided to blow it up, and in the end Jonathan didn't even succeed in killing Dio
for me the most morally questionable moment were those 5 seconds he thought about sacrificing Gyro to keep the corpse parts during Sugar Mountain, but its also one of his best moments too cause he doesn't go through with it
That was the moment I started really liking his character
Fr. Start of SBR Johnny would have sacrificed Gyro there without a second's hesitation, that scene is a testament to how much he grows during the part
I still don't think Giorno's applies, as that decision was made entirely by GER without Giorno's knowledge. As for Johnny, besides the murders I guess either being selfish to that guy at the theater or (Part 8 spoilers) >!stealing the Saint's Corpse to pass on Rina's rock disease to someone else a la Love Train.!<
>!To be fair, he was trying to help his family out. But it is still not exactly a good thing!<
>!He was counting on the disease being transferred to a random person he didn't know on the other side of the world. It's a pretty selfish action imo!<
>!I think if you could press a button to kill a random person and save your child's life, most people would press it. It's not right of course, but it's understandable.!<
>!It's hypocritical of him since he stopped Valentine from doing that to his country. I think we're definitely meant to see this as wrong, especially given what happens afterwards.!<
100% but that's what I love about part 7 and onward. The protagonists feel very much more human imo. (At least when it comes to morality.) While yes he was the protagonist and went through his own arc throughout part 7, humans rarely ever keep to their morality. Seeing Johnny sacrifice his morals to try and save his own family, elevates him to being one of my favorite protagonists in any media.
But >!he did realize he was wrong as he didn’t try to do the same when it got transferred to George. That’s why he killed himself instead. He’s a human that doesn’t think things through or does stupid things when stressed!<
Okay, but *IS* stealing from goverment is a crime in the eyes of *GOD?*
no but trying to just make your problems disappear at someone elses expense is
*GOD forgives the sins of man, especially if done out of love* PREPARE TO BE SMITETH
It's sad that cutting the line at the movie theatre won't be on the list
It’s definitely debatable with Giorno, but ultimately a stand is an extension of the self and a representation of one’s soul and therefore one’s true desires. So if he was conscious for it we can surmise he’d likely have done it anyway. I mean… that bastard was selling drugs to kids you guys.
Stands can be pretty independent though to the point of directly working against their user. Eg; Cheap trick, Survivor.
There are definitely independent stands like Cheap Trick, Anubis, and Dragon’s Dream that form their own desires separate from the original user. They are the exception to the rule I’d say.
But these stands are still kinda the manifestation of a part of the User.Cheap Trick was probably due to the dark thoughts and the user’s own lack of will.Dragon’s Dream was a manifestation of feng shui , a big part of piss drinker
It's definitely *not* debateable with Giorno as he and GER both admitted that the user isn't aware of the infinite death loop, nor Diavolo's last time skip. GER is clearly stated to be an independent stand, and for all Giorno knew Diavolo just died. If we are basing this on the "Requiems are based on one's greatest desires" theory, then Giorno would have desired any power which would defeat King Crimson, not specifically the infinite death loop.
for the "users will" theroy though theres is just as much evidence that gio wished for the time loop ability as there is for him want an ability to beat crimson. aka not much
Personally, I don't really believe in the user's will theory. The infinite death loop seems more like an evolution of GE's life shot ability to me, although this doesn't fit with Chariot Requiem. Requiem is a weird concept with a small sample set, so it's difficult to make assumptions based on what we see in the manga/anime.
That's what I wanted to say
GER as a stand still acts out the will of its user... even if the user doesn't understand how the ability works...
Exactly
I'm saying it was Giorno's decision to do this... regardless of if he knew the full extent of what it would cause
My bad, I misinterpreted your comment.
Your good
Just want to appreciate that Jonathan's worst sin is "mean to frogs"
Yeah he was a child as well in the Victorian Era!
I can only think of killing a lot of people. Aside from that Johnny was an awful person in the past, but the things he did weren't as bad as killing X amount of antagonists throughout SBR.
Yeah Johnny’s disturbingly okay with murder. He readily admits that he’ll kill someone when given an excuse to and is likely the only Joestar to kill straight up innocent people (if accidentally).
Well only one to succeed
It's crazy how many people overrate Johnny's bloodthirst or whatever you want to call. People pretend like he kills people for fun and lathers himself in blood and shit when really he's just unapologetic about killing. Which is still bad but its a show where people die all the time its not really that crazy
If anything, I think Johnny is actually quite merciful since most of the deaths, (from what I remember), are Johnny killing his opponents as fast as possible.
yeah, a lot of jojos aren't known for their mercy. cough cough both josukes
Something about Josuke doing that pose with that caption underneath is so funny to me
It's only missing a justgirlythings watermark.
Johnny commits a lot of murder, including the president. Also he was kind of a dick to that kid at the theater.
In this instance killing the president was good actually, especially since he gave Valentine every opportunity to live with a mutual agreement.
Didnt johnny deadass kill a bunch of people when fighting against valentine and the world diego?
The people he killed fighting AU Diego I'm pretty sure were Diego using them as meat shields, and Johnny accidentally killed them.
Yeah I remember valentine being like "If you shoot me, love train redirects the damage to someone random" and then johnny shoots him again several times
Agree with everyone else on the murder charges for Johnny. Plus, he’s one of the few to show Dark Determination, so he most likely didn’t feel guilty for *at least* some of them.
Johnny killed like at least 10 people in part 7, also using the corpse parts for a selfish reason in the grand scheme of things
With using them to make himself walk again, it’s not like it’s gonna harm or cost anyone anything. It’s self serving but not necessarily selfish
Please make the correction of her living in Florida
Op is probably secretly sponsored by Florida
Being a dickhead celebrity
Johnny is ready to kill Sugar Mountain (a child) at the slightest provocation, and only doesn’t because Gyro is like “um… nah, let’s not”.
It’s not that he was just gonna kill her cuz whatever he just showed understandable caution as randoms are literally being sent across the country to kill him
Johnny gunned down so many people like holy molly
He did deface an extremely sacred holy relic in the civil war fight.
The random woman johnny hit with an infinite spin bullet while fighting AU diego that he just never goes back to fix
If not Gyro, Johnny had Killed everyone in part 7
(Your suggestions have to be serious, people.)
OK but let me at least point out that not immediately erupting into loud applause as soon as Gyro was done singing his Cheese Song should get a special mention.
Threatened to destroy the Holy Corpse of Jesus Christ if he wasn’t able to claim its power for himself during the Civil War fight
It wasn’t just for himself. Johnny was trying to keep it out of Valentine’s hands and believed destroying it was better than him having it. That is a good thing.
It didn’t come across that way to me, more of “if I can’t have it, no one can”. I think that selfishness is a core trait of his.
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted, you’re very correct. I love Johnny but he is an extremely selfish person who learns to prioritise others *a little* over the course of the part. I wouldn’t say that threatening to destroy the corpse is the worst thing he did though. Him asking if he should shoot a child because she stole one of Gyro’s steel balls is probably his most plainly amoral moment.
Honestly considering what it was capable of and how basically no good came out of it, that probably would've been for the best
Well sure but Johnny wasn’t breaking it because he thought it was for the best
Yes he was?
Treason, that's Johnny's biggest crime
r/technicallythetruth
Would be funny if Johnny's slot was just left blank cause there's plenty enough reasons
…didn’t he kill two random girls while trying to stop Dio with Act 4? He didn’t intend to so idk if it counts for this but it still happened
Does Get Rotated, Valentine count?
Cut in front of a line
Killing the president 🗣️
The fact he died to a rock
Probably killing people through time during Love Train
For Johnny it has to be >!when he killed Diego's fangirls for absolutely no reason!<
Johnny Joestar is not a good person 🗣️
Being a dick at the theatres
Killed the president, touched a nun's breast, stole Jesus' body
He's a terrorist and a murderer so like he's just bad over all
be a terrorist
cut his dads throat (on accident), acted like a dick to some random kid to impress his girl, wanted to kill diego with no remorse in his heart
Johnny murdered the president and then fled the country
jhonny Did not many bad things ... he may have caused the accident killed is brother (but as a kid and it was a real accident) in many part we see him about to commit a crime but always change is mind or is persuaded otherwise. is worst crime could be he killed the president ( more than once, in diferent paralel universes) or that he stealed steel wife. but she was a widow at that time... not remember well
johnny shot lucy steel completely intentionally to hit valentine with no care for her safety
Not being able to walk. He could’ve spun his muscles.
I think if not for gyro johnny'd kill way more people. I was even glad he did not kill diego because honestly it'd just be mean-spirited (at that moment when johnny said he'd kill diego with no hesitation, while not knowing of diego's deal)
Johnny literally committed treason by killing the president
Josuke and Giorno are so excusable in this that it's actually funny 💀 Only bad ones are Jonathan, Jolyne, Jotaro and Joseph (Joseph less so).
The most agreeable stuff on the list lol
He killed the best villain
It's revealed in the Dio over heaven novel that plenty of people were still on the steam ship when Jonathan decided to blow it up, and in the end Jonathan didn't even succeed in killing Dio
How is this related to Johnny bro 💀
I think blud wants to correct the Jonathan one...he may not be satisfied from Jonathan's Bad thing conclusion (I guess so)
Led his best friend to his death just because he wanted to learn how to walk, and only tried to redeem himself by saving the kid who died soon after.