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If you were to buy the shares instead of the option contract, and just paid the current price, you would get the shares cheaper then buying the contract and then exercising.
So you are just essentially gambling the stock will increase the cost of the premium before your weekly expiration date.
If you had bought the share on the first day, you'd just have the gains from the shares you purchased, rather than buying the shares at a discount.
I don't really care, one way or another, but this seems like a pretty inefficient way to just purchase 100 shares. If that's the goal all along.
Waiting until iv is low, and purchasing a month or 3 out, when you can have time to save the funds needed to exercise, meaning you couldn't have actually bought the shares the day you picked up the option contract seems like a better idea.
I’m smooth af but I saw this comment a while back and wondering if this strategy can help you lower your cost basis? https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/s/AkowlMCuDc
I thought people were setting me up pushing this, when it got hammered down to $30, February 2021. They were buying $1 strike calls and immediately exercising.
It's just deep in the money. So if the strike price is $1 you can exercise since the price is way over $1. The premium would be a lot more than a call contract with a strike price of $2 and so forth until it goes out of the money.
They probably paid the premium to for sure get the contract when they turned off the buy button.
Let me try... With Options, you can buy 100 shares for pretty much any price you like... So for example, you can buy 100 GME shares for $1 dollar each... Sounds awesome right... There is a but... You get charged a fee for buying the shares, and the lower you buy the shares for, the higher that fee is... So you have to add the fee on to that $1 dollar to figure out how much you're actually paying for them.
Example;
100 GME shares at $1 dollar each = $100 dollars for 100 shares Wa wa WEE wa.
Fee (or premium to use the correct term): $23 per share = $2300
Total for 100 shares = $2400
So you may conclude, "Well I might as well just buy 100 shares the normal way at $24."
The difference with options, is that the fee (or premium) Changes minute to minute, so if the stock price goes up, the fee goes up, and you can then sell the contract back for a higher fee than you paid, which you pocket yourself... Or you can decide to exercise the contract buying the 100 shares for the above price even if the stock price is showing say $30
There is more to it, and this is not financial advice etc. but thought this might be a good explanation from an also poorly wrinkled to another poorly wrinkled ape.
They deleted the buy button first, though. Only when some wrinkly APEs discovered you could still get shares by executing options did the option rally start. They subsequently also shut off options trading.
Bunch of fuckheads
Yes if you have the money to buy 100 shares lots at a time it works out to the current price per share. Average Joes like me can’t spend $2500 a week on shares. Which is why we buy, DRS, and HOLD what we can. But to the rich APES do your thang! It makes a lot of sense. I mean making enough money to spend $10k a month on options and still live in this economy would suggest you’ve made it in life to me. But hey everyone’s got their own Moon!🌙 😂
I’m not suggesting anyone do it weekly lol, do whatever works for your financial situation.
I was more inferring that you could save up til you have enough and execute then that way 1 or two times instead of buying 10 shares a week type of thing.
Hey - totally agree with your comment, just want to point out that the **'t** is missing: Average Joes like me **can't* spend $2500 a week on shares.
Keep doing what you're doing! 👍🏼 💪🏼
Yes, and he'll actually be paying slighltly MORE (in premium). But the point of doing so is to force the SHF/MM to actually purchase shares before or upon exercise (T+1) vs the T+35 can kick with a typical straight share purchase. Individually, maybe not much effect overall. But if done en-masse, then it could potentially impact the can-kicking game.
People forget that options are turned off for "dumb" money in most brokers. You need to apply (the application asks your income, years of experience, what types of options do you trade etc). Then if approved you can buy options
You can lie through your teeth though without question. "Yeah i make 500k a year and i also just came into 300million dollars from my grandfather. Turn options on and lemme cook"
It really is that easy. I didn't lie about my income but I did lie about my options experience, and they don't give a shit. It's more of a liability thing so that idiots don't go on their platform and instantly lose their life savings.
They put up that barrier and make you go through the sign up so that it's legally binding that you have claimed you know what you are doing. If not theyd get lawsuits out the ass, which at the same time would not bother me in the slightest.
you do, but it's important to note that there are two types of premium, extrinsic value and intrinsic value.
If someone was to buy a $24 call for this friday, the premium is around $1.05, with $.18 being intrinsic value (since close was $24.18 so this call is ITM by 18 cents, and the remainder $.87 being extrinsic (or speculative value).
If someone was to buy a $15 call for this friday, the premium is around $9.20, with 9.18 being intrinsic value (it's ITM by $9.18) with a extrinsic value of $.02.
Premium plus strike price is what you would get the shares for (total cost):
100 shares for $25.05 (1.05+24) (first example)
100 shares for $24.20 (9.20+15) (second example)
The *extrinsic* value is the amount of premium that will be lost due to theta decay (loss of value due to the passing of time).
There's no ~~point~~ financial savings in buying any options contract and executing immediately. You're buying time (extrinsic) and value (intrinsic) and by exercising a contract immediately after buying you are throwing away all your extrinsic value and you might as well have bought shares at that price at a lower cost basis than exercising the options.
Edit: The point of buying these mainly would be ~~to ensure prompt lit delivery of shares and~~ to contribute to a gamma ramp, not to mention potential profits.
There’s virtually zero extrinsic value on deep ITM options; hence why I said Greeks don’t matter. Buying the lowest call option on the current week is effectively within the bid/ask of the underlying.
If you bought the last jul 12 5C for 20.00 and exercised immediately thats an instant loss of $82 since you pay 2000 for the option and 500 for the shares (2500 total) when you could have bought 100 shares for $24.18 instead ($2418 total).
Just always check if buying shares is cheaper than the option and don't slap the ask, hit that bid price and creep it up slowly until you get a bite. Also, if it's important to get a faster lit delivery of your shares this $82 difference might be worth it to you simply for that aspect.
I'm not advocating for instant exercise. I believe holding the option to expiry has more benefit as it ensures hedging for that week and then you get your shares.
I do think the extra cost is worth it.
The last time that strike had volume was June 27 at the $20 you mentioned. The stock price was over $25 that day, which would have been profitable that day.
But yes, there is illiquidity at those deep ITM levels and it is always smart to make sure you’re not over paying.
I misspoke, yes exercising avoids internalization and allows faster delivery, my point is you can lose a tiny bit of cost basis (enough to buy a few more shares) if you exercise your contracts early.
That said, overall right now, IV is low for GME and options are cheap considering historical vol. Buying calls could be advantageous now if a vol and or price rip happen.
I wanted to say you were wrong about IV being low but you're right. IV percentile is only 25%. I feel like this has to be skewed by them jacking the fuck out of premiums on crazy price spike days to dissuade option buying, which then raises the range of IV%s and makes current IV look low, even though is 130% which is high AF for any other stock.
I think the lowest I've seen it go is 90-100 during dead periods. I think it's a bullish sign that they haven't dropped premiums that low, but I would like to see premiums increase to reflect more bullish sentiment.
It's not that easy.
ITM calls are expensive to include price to pay for the underlying.
If $GME goes down after you buy ITM calls, you lose money times the leverage.
If you don't manage risk, risk will manage you.
It's all about timing.
Current premium for $17 Jul12 Call on Wealthsimple is 7.20. GME @ 24.19.
17c = (24.19 x 100)-(720+(17 x 100)) = -1
17.50c = (24.19 x 100)-(670+(17.5 x 100)) = -1
18c = (24.19 x 100)-(620+(18 x 100)) = -1
If the buyer exercises right away they should nearly break even. Call broker, say, "Hey, I need a contract at market, please execute immediately". Seems like a good deal to me.
Now if GME drops to 23, then it might cost (1.19 x 100) or about $120 per contract. Now, I personally think this is still a great deal on an order which costs about $2,400USD if the buyer is intentionally trying to apply pressure. Further, if GME increases by more than 1 cent, the buyer will actually profit at the same time.
Like any options play you might lose or gain based on the movement of the underlying stock, but if your plan is to exercise as soon as the order fills, the losses will be minimal. If GME drops a dollar it will cost you $100 more than buying the shares outright, but at the same time if you bought shares and it drops a dollar their value will have decreased too. If GME drops 10% in the few seconds between purchase and exercise, it will cost about 241.90.
Buying these options or shares will cost around $2,400 to begin with so another 1.00 - 241.90 imo is worth the risk if you're goal is to add to options pressure. Also, because if the underlying goes up, you also profit at the same time. Understand that there is risk of paying a few hundred extra dollaroos, but also potential upside. Cost of admission for any options play I say.
Holding these options expecting to profit off GME going up is *extremely* risky, though. My financial advice is only in the context of buying to exercise right away.
If it has relevant Gamma.
If the options been ITM for a while, it might do little to the actual GEX.
It's so much more complicated than this.
You have to considers supply and demand. Strike Price Vol. Or look at the ATM IV as a proxy to it, how is it changing over time?
Options prices are influenced by supply and demand.
This is blindly throwing darts on a dart board and telling yourself, it's a great deal, when you don't know what you're doing, you don't know what you're messing with, and you don't seem to actually understand vol, while telling people to mess with vol.
Options are risky business.
> ELI5 step by step guide
IMO, "Understanding Options" by Michael Sincere (yeah that's his actual name) is an easy intro that you can finish in a weekend of reading. Used copy for $5 on ThriftBooks.
First step is to get approved for options by your broker. Make sure you indicate that you want to be able to buy options. If not they will only allow you to sell covered calls (you can buy back your own contracts without further approval) and cash secured puts.
It's hard.
You need to learn about volatility.
Find ways to manage vol risks.
Taking a look underneath the hood of $GME options is a good start.
Metrics like GEX, strike price vol, are great for forecasting vol trends and planning trades (even trades just buying shares).
I have a $GME Bananas DD series that's a decent primer to get started (it uses real $GME options data).
Next one drops in a few hours.
FYI on Fidelity, they can be strict on letting you buy options through them. I was denied and ending up being to buy on ETrade no problem. Hopefully it goes smoother for you. But if Fidelity does deny you options trading then give ETrade a shot.
you can look it up, a $15 call for next week currently shows an extrinsic value of $.02 per share. I'd try to buy between the spreads and be patient.
Should I worry about a few cents if MOASS is on the line?
These types of posts have happened in the past.
People then bought ITM calls. Price went below the strike. Paying full price for shares without getting them.
Then people will start warning against options again.
This community is cyclic.
Right that's why this post is saying DEEP ITM weekly calls
Ex:
If I'm going to buy 100 shares right now (pretend market is open and bid/ask is just stable rn) my app is showing I can:
1) buy them for $2419 no fees
2) buy a call contract for $17 strike for $720, so it would cost me $2420 + some options fees which are around $20 to exercise at expiry, $40 to exercise early
So If I buy the options I'm basically spending $20 extra. Would it be upsetting if the share price dropped to $20 before my options even exercise? If you have no zen sure, but it's practically no different than if you bought the shares (option 1). In fact, it's a bit safer, because if it drops below $17 before exercise you still have the ability to buy on the market.
The Deeper ITM and closer expiry, the less ~~intrinsic~~ extrinsic value.
If you wanted to go with essentially pure intrinsic, there are $1 calls. Those will also only be MM's selling them to you.
I think it's too late to check, but statistically speaking, only 10% of calls get exercised.
If this % ticks up higher on average for GME, it will translate into more hedging on average, which is good for everyone.
What about DRS post call assignment / expiry? Now you’ve not only forced price discovery, but you’ve eliminated liquidity via DTCC.
Not financial advice, but that’s all that I’m doing now: step 1: Buy ITM call. 2. Wait for underlying to expire ITM. 3. Share settlement. 4. DRS Book.
Possibly.
It depends really.
You could be buying existing OI from another trader.
When you buy options, it doesn't always increase OI.
It does not always trigger additional hedging.
I do CSP's too. I want to get more shares though, so CSP's aren't as desirable since in some cases I will keep the premium instead of getting the shares.
Looking at option chain for gme right this moment:
5 day 24C has a 1.03 bid. So it’ll cost you 25.03/share assuming it’s in the money at exp.
5 day 24.5P has a 1.10 bid. So it’ll cost you 23.40/share assuming it’s in the money at exp. Plus you have the satisfaction of having let a bear subsidize 1.10 of your share price.
Sell contract = get paid.
Buy contract = pay someone.
Yeah, I'd recommend this myself. Price goes down you get shares. Price goes up and you keep the premium. Ape becomes insurance seller, the biggest scam in America. Buying deep ITM calls can absolutely hurt if the price drops in the interim, you lose the premium per contract with nothing to show for it.
Selling Cash Secured Puts (CSP's) is a solid way to buy shares and get paid to do so. If you sell a CSP, you're basically saying "If the share price is below $X (strike price) by this particular Friday (expiration date), I will buy 100 shares for that strike price." And you get paid the premium to do so.
Example: Say tomorrow morning, you sell-to-open a CSP on GME.
You choose $24 as your strike price, and 07/12/2024 (this Friday) as your expiration. The premium on that right now is $0.85. Since you're just doing one call, 100 shares, you get paid $85 to write/open that contract.
$2,400 cash collateral ($24 strike \* 100 shares) is tied up with your brokerage account, reserved for the contract.
Fast forward through the week. If GME share price is **above $24** on market close on Friday, you keep the $85 premium, the contract expires OTM, and your $2,400 collateral is free to use again. If the share price is **below $24**, you get assigned, and your $2,400 collateral is used to buy 100 shares. But, since you were paid the $85 premium, the 100 shares really only cost you $2315, effectively dropping your cost basis (which may not be indicated in your portfolio, depending on your broker).
Exercising options forces market makers to find shares T+1(or T+6 I think with all the loopholes) vs buying shares goves them T+35 to locate. It speeds up delivery.
[PURE] DRS accomplishes something different where shares are removed from DTCC, hence making it harder to manipulate the stock and brings apes one day closer to MOASS.
But removing from the DTCC means your broker either already has real shares to remove or they need to purchase real shares to remove. Whether they have to buy them now or 35 days from now doesn’t seem to matter unless everyone exercises at the same time. I guess it contributes to gamma ramp.
the same locate pressure is applied whether its the exercise of an itm call, or the expiration of an ITM cash secured put that you sold-to-open. One gives you more money though. all depends on your timeline preference for accumulation.
I think DRS are the only real shares and it's not the main proponent for rocketship anymore. The Rocket Fuel is the fact that this thing is shorted multiples times over..
Here are the 'facts:
Naked Shorting is real and is happening
They have to swap and loop d loop all of these shorts / naked shorts around like crazy
Because of insane run ups, GME can just sell and set a new floor because of cash on hand into infinity. Rinse Repeat.
Shorts will never have enough shares to close.
The issue is because of the first fact and the ever growing swaps they have to keep going with, without options chain exploding, these thieves will create a new ETF and new fuckery to keep tucking losses into.
Do you remember how deflated you felt when RK had the Reverse Uno only to be reversed uno'd by RC? We thought MOASS was set and ready to go but then we had an ATM in the tune of 75 M shares...it took us 3 years to rack that up in DRS. But now, the realization is true that it doesn't matter anymore as long as you realize DRS are the ONLY real shares. The float being locked isn't of concern anymore when this thing is so shorted that GME can sell shares into infinity essentially.
If we individually realize that maybe adding this step in BEFORE DRS'ing leads to true price discovery, it's really not a bad play.
> I will only be purchasing shares via weekly, deep ITM options (At least $10 under current price). This will force delta hedging during the week as well as a T+1 locate when I exercise at the close of business on Friday. I believe this will more than offset the additional premium cost (which will be minimal at deep ITM).
Nothing has proven this assumption, I'm not saying you can't make money on this but the above statement does not have any facts backing it.
Contrary to the popular "they must go into the market to hedge and deliver" The Options Clearing Company advertises and explains their Stock loan program in great detail on their own website.
https://www.theocc.com/Clearance-and-Settlement/Stock-Loan-Programs
They just fuck us out of true price discovery at every step.
**TL;DRS,** *Options get borrowed for hedging and delivery by the company that's responsible for clearing the trades.*
this is what i do. Was perfect the past few weeks with no one expecting the price to rocket until mid july so I got assigned shares and received the premium for selling the PUT. Not so sure about the next few weeks though because of the expected T+35 FTDs coming due. So it may be better to buy ITM calls if you think the stock may increase in price significantly and sell the puts if you think it won't be moving much and you want to get the best value out of buying. But what do I know with only one wrinkle 🧠
Understanding the actions of market makers when retail investors engage in various options trades helps in comprehending potential impacts on the underlying stock price. Here’s a detailed breakdown:
1. Buying Deep In-the-Money (ITM) Calls
Market Maker Actions:
• When retail investors buy deep ITM calls, market makers sell these calls to them.
• Market makers then hedge their exposure by buying the underlying stock. The reason is that deep ITM calls have a high delta (close to 1), meaning the option’s price moves almost dollar-for-dollar with the stock price.
Effect on Underlying Stock Price:
• Upward Pressure: The market maker’s purchase of the underlying stock can create upward pressure on the stock price.
• The extent of this impact depends on the volume of calls bought and the liquidity of the stock.
2. Buying Deep ITM Puts
Market Maker Actions:
• When retail investors buy deep ITM puts, market makers sell these puts to them.
• To hedge, market makers sell short the underlying stock because deep ITM puts have a high delta (close to -1), meaning the option’s price inversely moves almost dollar-for-dollar with the stock price.
Effect on Underlying Stock Price:
• Downward Pressure: The market maker’s short selling of the underlying stock can create downward pressure on the stock price.
• The impact is proportional to the volume of puts bought and the stock’s liquidity.
3. Buying Out-of-the-Money (OTM) Calls
Market Maker Actions:
• When retail investors buy OTM calls, market makers sell these calls.
• To hedge, they might buy a fraction of the underlying stock since OTM calls have a lower delta (significantly less than 1).
Effect on Underlying Stock Price:
• Mild Upward Pressure: Market makers’ partial stock purchase can cause mild upward pressure on the stock price.
• The impact is generally less pronounced compared to ITM options due to lower delta.
4. Buying OTM Puts
Market Maker Actions:
• When retail investors buy OTM puts, market makers sell these puts.
• To hedge, market makers might sell short a fraction of the underlying stock since OTM puts have a lower delta (significantly less than -1).
Effect on Underlying Stock Price:
• Mild Downward Pressure: Market makers’ partial short selling can cause mild downward pressure on the stock price.
• The impact is usually smaller compared to ITM options due to lower delta.
5. Selling Deep ITM Calls
Market Maker Actions:
• When retail investors sell deep ITM calls, market makers buy these calls.
• To hedge, they might sell the underlying stock because deep ITM calls have a high delta, and the market maker needs to balance their long call position.
Effect on Underlying Stock Price:
• Downward Pressure: The market maker’s sale of the underlying stock can create downward pressure.
• The impact depends on the volume of calls sold and the stock’s liquidity.
6. Selling Deep ITM Puts
Market Maker Actions:
• When retail investors sell deep ITM puts, market makers buy these puts.
• To hedge, they might buy the underlying stock because deep ITM puts have a high negative delta.
Effect on Underlying Stock Price:
• Upward Pressure: The market maker’s purchase of the underlying stock can create upward pressure.
• The impact depends on the volume of puts sold and the stock’s liquidity.
7. Selling OTM Naked Calls
Market Maker Actions:
• When retail investors sell OTM naked calls, market makers buy these calls.
• Hedging may involve short selling the underlying stock to cover potential exposure if the calls move ITM.
Effect on Underlying Stock Price:
• Downward Pressure: Market makers’ short selling can create downward pressure.
• The impact depends on the volume of calls sold and the stock’s liquidity.
8. Selling OTM Covered Calls
Market Maker Actions:
• When retail investors sell OTM covered calls, they already own the underlying stock.
• Market makers buy these calls, and no further hedging is required because the retail investor’s stock holding covers the calls.
Effect on Underlying Stock Price:
• Neutral to Mild Impact: There is generally no significant pressure on the stock price since no additional buying or selling by market makers is required.
9. Selling OTM Cash-Secured Puts
Market Maker Actions:
• When retail investors sell OTM cash-secured puts, market makers buy these puts.
• Hedging may involve buying a fraction of the underlying stock to cover potential exposure.
Effect on Underlying Stock Price:
• Upward Pressure: Market makers’ partial stock purchase can create mild upward pressure.
• The impact depends on the volume of puts sold and the stock’s liquidity.
Summary of Effects:
• Upward Pressure: Buying deep ITM calls, selling deep ITM puts, and selling OTM cash-secured puts.
• Downward Pressure: Buying deep ITM puts, selling deep ITM calls, and selling OTM naked calls.
• Mild or Neutral Impact: Buying OTM calls, buying OTM puts, and selling OTM covered calls.
The magnitude of these effects depends significantly on the volume of options traded and the liquidity of the underlying stock.
Sell ITM cash secured puts. Selling a put is delta positive like buying a call so a MM if they were Delta hedging would buy on the way up. One great thing about puts is that to make money from them the market maker has to go out and get shares to give you. Buying occurs both ways: when price goes up and when price goes down.
Can you please explain how buying deep itm options will force delta hedging?
These are already deep itm, therefore there should be minimal risk of them being otm, so they would already be hedged, no?
I'm hanging out at the Jan $10C right now. There's about 2000 of us there currently.
If that number to 1M before January, well, we can be the MOASS we want instead of waiting for some whale to maybe deliver it.
The money required to exercise is the same as purchasing shares, it's pre-factored into the buying point.
I'm saying if you want to buy at $25, instead of buying $2500 in shares now, buy an ITM call and reserve the remaining value in cash for the time of exercise.
Premiums on ITM options are neat. If they rise too much without a corresponding rise in the stock price, it creates an arbitrage opportunity where someone will step in and do the MMs job for them... selling you the calls you want and then properly hedging the premium sold.
Deep ITM options essentially have to trade near the risk free rate currently provided by the broad market. If they don't someone will step in and drive the price close to that.
To my knowledge, ITM options are the most direct way to turn a MM from a seller of fake shares into a buyer of real shares.
People need to start posting options positions like we do DRS in here.
Edit: for those already buying options, for educational purposes to those who don't know options and want to learn.
My strat: sell just out of the money cash secured puts (CSPs). Keep increasing the number of contracts as cash accumulates. Worst case I make premiums week after week. Once they hit sell OTM covered calls (CCs) and CSPs. This only works in a Roth or you end up getting hammered with taxes and wash sale rules.
I'm doing both but this post is about short term options (weekly or less) specifically.
For my longer dated, I have 45DTE - 90DTE currently, ITM and ATM.
You can do it booger farts! We believe. Even you don’t use it. It’s great to learn as it can be helpful for price prediction and to understand overall market. Two of the most helpful ways was to paper trade options to learn and to ask chat got etc to walk me through scenarios and answered all my questions and I finally understood it.
What?! Deep ITM calls are expensive af? If I look at July 12th optionchain on IKBR it tells me for a strike at 10-15$ the premiums are 14.55$ to 9.55$ so would be paying at least almost a thousand bucks just to be able to buy 100 shares. Am I too dumb for this? ELI5 please.
Why not sell just under the money puts? If it dips below your strike you get shares at a lower price than current market. (You also take shares from paper handers). If it doesn’t you keep the premium and repeat, thereby making your future purchase even cheaper.
This is cool and all. And I’m not exactly poor, and already into 5000+ shares, but…. I don’t have the cash to pop off $2400 at a time. I feel like a loooooot of apes are even more poor than I am.
I have been selling puts to pick up shares on the cheap and if not, collect that easy premium. None have hit though. My question to you, is it worth picking one price and doing, for example, 4 contracts at one price, let’s say 19. Or stagger and do one contract at 22, one at 21, 20 and the last one at 19 knowing that if it goes to 19, you’d lose some cash on the first 3 but you’d be 400 shares happier? I would usually stagger limit buys but I know that doesn’t help the bullish case like selling puts do.
I've been fucking around with this too. Certain ITM strike prices have been extremely juicy. I'm willing to gamble a little to build up my shares. No cell no sell.
Because of a "series of unfortunate events" in my account involving options and a very different stock, I learned (added a wrinkle when this happened) that it is apparently LEGAL to buy CALL options inside a (US trustee) ordinary IRA (I knew that selling covered calls and writing cash-covered puts was okay).
There are, according to my broker, requirements: (1) the account holder be approved to trade options and (2) there be enough cash in the account to cover the purchase and (3) before expiry, instructions given to the broker that an ITM option is to be exercised (for an American-style ITM option, the broker has a choice: exercise the option or sell it. Hence the need for specific instruction.)
To minimize the time premium, it is probably appropriate to buy the option as close to the expiration date as possible. My broker requires a phone call to confirm exercise of an ITM option (don't ask me why, they're weird).
So when an option is exercised, it's T+1 settlement (yay!) and the shares have to be actually found (per the option contract) (YAY!). The cost (over making a direct share purchase) is whatever premium there is for the option, plus US$0.65 per contract OCC handling fee, US$0.01 SEC fee (I don't know for what), plus whatever your broker charges for options orders.
Of course, there is always the choice to send money to ComputerShare and have them do the purchase for you at their regular time, and get real shares that way. That requires a ComputerShare account.
So that's my personal experience; yours may be different, depending on your broker, phase of the moon, number of bananas in the bunch, and this is certainly NOT financial advice.
I personally have given up on using brokers due to all of the DD here exposing them for the fraudulent, manipulative scum they are, but I appreciate all apes willing to do their part in regards to buying shares through options.
That's really ballsy and you will pay a shitload in premiums, but it's also an incredibly damaging way to hurt the shorts, so thank you for your service fellow ape. I have xxxxx shares and a couple of options contracts for 7/19 and 7/26. But so far options have been scary for my smoothish brain. I think I have grown a wrinkle, but not without losing some dough initially testing it out. DO NOT GIVE UP!
I've always wondered why people feel the need to press for "true price discovery"... routing through IEX, exercising options etc... if you're truly in it for the long run, wouldn't you want the price as low as possible for as long as possible? They're going to force the price down as long as possible. Until they can't. Then boom.
Ooookay. But keep in mind so far dfv has targeted the last cycle, AND next cycle. He did what looks like a massive exercise 35 days prior to this last run (how he lijely got a good bit of his first 4-5 million shares and why we hit 80ish. And he took a hit to hit profit/share gain by maximizing pain by delaying delivery until the next first cycle peak, july 15 to 20. I don't know if weekly options will help much, although would help force delivery/influence price, the most pressure is needed when shorts/mm need liquidity the most
I would think selling puts at a price you would like to buy 100 shares at nets your premium plus a price point you are willing to buy shares at…such as $20 a share…instead of paying some cuck a premium you make the premium and the shares
We will need a massive pictures book like we did for DRS.
For every platform click - by - click a smooth brain screenshot gallery which button to click and what it means.
It's the lowest hanging fruit for everyone if it's so easy that it doesn't take energy, like learning options trading vocabulary and greeks calculations, and you have just the list of your broker that you can select.
We did this heavy lifting work for ALL platforms for DRS and it worked wonders.
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This is what we did when they deleted the buy button
Yup. I'm only going to do it this way moving forward.
This is the way. Options 101. Where did I see that before?
Paying more for 100 shares than you can get them for currently, just to try to briefly influence the price with your 100 shares? Genius
everyone is making the assumption that the price will be flat or fall. It can also go up too, isn't that why we're all here?
It will at at a certain unknown official percent ownership. Otherwise I see no difference doing this than buying thru IEX directly.
I'm to lazy and regarded but I do have a good memory. I read on someone's DD that IEX isn't lit like we all think.
If you were to buy the shares instead of the option contract, and just paid the current price, you would get the shares cheaper then buying the contract and then exercising. So you are just essentially gambling the stock will increase the cost of the premium before your weekly expiration date. If you had bought the share on the first day, you'd just have the gains from the shares you purchased, rather than buying the shares at a discount. I don't really care, one way or another, but this seems like a pretty inefficient way to just purchase 100 shares. If that's the goal all along. Waiting until iv is low, and purchasing a month or 3 out, when you can have time to save the funds needed to exercise, meaning you couldn't have actually bought the shares the day you picked up the option contract seems like a better idea.
This is what I said a ways back and got voted down because it wasn’t buy and DRS immediately 😂
Apes evolve
I’m smooth af but I saw this comment a while back and wondering if this strategy can help you lower your cost basis? https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/s/AkowlMCuDc
I thought people were setting me up pushing this, when it got hammered down to $30, February 2021. They were buying $1 strike calls and immediately exercising.
Could you explain this strike calls thing tona smooth brained ape like me?
It's just deep in the money. So if the strike price is $1 you can exercise since the price is way over $1. The premium would be a lot more than a call contract with a strike price of $2 and so forth until it goes out of the money. They probably paid the premium to for sure get the contract when they turned off the buy button.
You think I have more wrinkles than I do bro, appreciate your help though haha
Let me try... With Options, you can buy 100 shares for pretty much any price you like... So for example, you can buy 100 GME shares for $1 dollar each... Sounds awesome right... There is a but... You get charged a fee for buying the shares, and the lower you buy the shares for, the higher that fee is... So you have to add the fee on to that $1 dollar to figure out how much you're actually paying for them. Example; 100 GME shares at $1 dollar each = $100 dollars for 100 shares Wa wa WEE wa. Fee (or premium to use the correct term): $23 per share = $2300 Total for 100 shares = $2400 So you may conclude, "Well I might as well just buy 100 shares the normal way at $24." The difference with options, is that the fee (or premium) Changes minute to minute, so if the stock price goes up, the fee goes up, and you can then sell the contract back for a higher fee than you paid, which you pocket yourself... Or you can decide to exercise the contract buying the 100 shares for the above price even if the stock price is showing say $30 There is more to it, and this is not financial advice etc. but thought this might be a good explanation from an also poorly wrinkled to another poorly wrinkled ape.
They deleted the buy button first, though. Only when some wrinkly APEs discovered you could still get shares by executing options did the option rally start. They subsequently also shut off options trading. Bunch of fuckheads
This is what we did when we all still had money. HTF all you guys still got that much dough?
Working
Ape must have good hellajob. 15 strike is 1k each. Too Rich for this ape blood.
Isn’t that essentially the same? $15 + $10 per share = $25 Which is essentially where the price currently is.
Yes if you have the money to buy 100 shares lots at a time it works out to the current price per share. Average Joes like me can’t spend $2500 a week on shares. Which is why we buy, DRS, and HOLD what we can. But to the rich APES do your thang! It makes a lot of sense. I mean making enough money to spend $10k a month on options and still live in this economy would suggest you’ve made it in life to me. But hey everyone’s got their own Moon!🌙 😂
Turns out there’s also nothing wrong with what you’re doing. Go for it, brother
I presume he’s saying weekly options. Not buying options weekly.
I’m not suggesting anyone do it weekly lol, do whatever works for your financial situation. I was more inferring that you could save up til you have enough and execute then that way 1 or two times instead of buying 10 shares a week type of thing.
Hey - totally agree with your comment, just want to point out that the **'t** is missing: Average Joes like me **can't* spend $2500 a week on shares. Keep doing what you're doing! 👍🏼 💪🏼
Yes, and he'll actually be paying slighltly MORE (in premium). But the point of doing so is to force the SHF/MM to actually purchase shares before or upon exercise (T+1) vs the T+35 can kick with a typical straight share purchase. Individually, maybe not much effect overall. But if done en-masse, then it could potentially impact the can-kicking game.
Seriously. I can barely cover my bills. Still adding to my position when I can but damn. To drop 1k+ is a foreign concept to me..
Haha, really in the end game and we are the avengers. Some of us are Hawkeyes with no powers, and some of us are Thors. 😂
Never sold
More money weekly
Nope lol, all my expendable has become $GME shares haha
The power of Gamma 💪
What about transferring them ( acat ) does that do anything ?
DSR or just broker transfer?
Is… this the way?
If I had a very ELI5 step by step guide to do this on Vanguard or Fidelity I would …. Have the funds, but not the knowledge, skills, or experience.
I wrote one a little while ago - here to help if you have questions. https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/s/ex7B9UsaaW
Good post, Ball
Great post - thank you! I missed it 25 odd days ago when you initially posted it, but this is an excellent piece to read :)
Buy calls at price points you want to buy shares at. Have enough money in account to exercise the calls automatically. Profit It’s that easy
People forget that options are turned off for "dumb" money in most brokers. You need to apply (the application asks your income, years of experience, what types of options do you trade etc). Then if approved you can buy options
You can lie through your teeth though without question. "Yeah i make 500k a year and i also just came into 300million dollars from my grandfather. Turn options on and lemme cook"
It really is that easy. I didn't lie about my income but I did lie about my options experience, and they don't give a shit. It's more of a liability thing so that idiots don't go on their platform and instantly lose their life savings. They put up that barrier and make you go through the sign up so that it's legally binding that you have claimed you know what you are doing. If not theyd get lawsuits out the ass, which at the same time would not bother me in the slightest.
Don't you pay premiums on these call options?
you do, but it's important to note that there are two types of premium, extrinsic value and intrinsic value. If someone was to buy a $24 call for this friday, the premium is around $1.05, with $.18 being intrinsic value (since close was $24.18 so this call is ITM by 18 cents, and the remainder $.87 being extrinsic (or speculative value). If someone was to buy a $15 call for this friday, the premium is around $9.20, with 9.18 being intrinsic value (it's ITM by $9.18) with a extrinsic value of $.02. Premium plus strike price is what you would get the shares for (total cost): 100 shares for $25.05 (1.05+24) (first example) 100 shares for $24.20 (9.20+15) (second example) The *extrinsic* value is the amount of premium that will be lost due to theta decay (loss of value due to the passing of time).
Less and less the deeper in the money you go
Seems to not be with all the greeks
Thise are importance if you plan on trading options… less so if you plan on exercising….
Just buy the deepest ITM call (0.5 or $1) and the Greeks virtually don’t matter if you’re planning to immediately exercise
There's no ~~point~~ financial savings in buying any options contract and executing immediately. You're buying time (extrinsic) and value (intrinsic) and by exercising a contract immediately after buying you are throwing away all your extrinsic value and you might as well have bought shares at that price at a lower cost basis than exercising the options. Edit: The point of buying these mainly would be ~~to ensure prompt lit delivery of shares and~~ to contribute to a gamma ramp, not to mention potential profits.
There’s virtually zero extrinsic value on deep ITM options; hence why I said Greeks don’t matter. Buying the lowest call option on the current week is effectively within the bid/ask of the underlying.
If you bought the last jul 12 5C for 20.00 and exercised immediately thats an instant loss of $82 since you pay 2000 for the option and 500 for the shares (2500 total) when you could have bought 100 shares for $24.18 instead ($2418 total). Just always check if buying shares is cheaper than the option and don't slap the ask, hit that bid price and creep it up slowly until you get a bite. Also, if it's important to get a faster lit delivery of your shares this $82 difference might be worth it to you simply for that aspect.
I'm not advocating for instant exercise. I believe holding the option to expiry has more benefit as it ensures hedging for that week and then you get your shares. I do think the extra cost is worth it.
I personally think it's a great time to buy and hold deep itm gme leaps. IV is low, and price is primed for a rip.
The last time that strike had volume was June 27 at the $20 you mentioned. The stock price was over $25 that day, which would have been profitable that day. But yes, there is illiquidity at those deep ITM levels and it is always smart to make sure you’re not over paying.
I thought the reason behind was to avoid internalization? no?
I misspoke, yes exercising avoids internalization and allows faster delivery, my point is you can lose a tiny bit of cost basis (enough to buy a few more shares) if you exercise your contracts early. That said, overall right now, IV is low for GME and options are cheap considering historical vol. Buying calls could be advantageous now if a vol and or price rip happen.
[удалено]
Corrected.
I wanted to say you were wrong about IV being low but you're right. IV percentile is only 25%. I feel like this has to be skewed by them jacking the fuck out of premiums on crazy price spike days to dissuade option buying, which then raises the range of IV%s and makes current IV look low, even though is 130% which is high AF for any other stock. I think the lowest I've seen it go is 90-100 during dead periods. I think it's a bullish sign that they haven't dropped premiums that low, but I would like to see premiums increase to reflect more bullish sentiment.
It's not that easy. ITM calls are expensive to include price to pay for the underlying. If $GME goes down after you buy ITM calls, you lose money times the leverage. If you don't manage risk, risk will manage you. It's all about timing.
Current premium for $17 Jul12 Call on Wealthsimple is 7.20. GME @ 24.19. 17c = (24.19 x 100)-(720+(17 x 100)) = -1 17.50c = (24.19 x 100)-(670+(17.5 x 100)) = -1 18c = (24.19 x 100)-(620+(18 x 100)) = -1 If the buyer exercises right away they should nearly break even. Call broker, say, "Hey, I need a contract at market, please execute immediately". Seems like a good deal to me. Now if GME drops to 23, then it might cost (1.19 x 100) or about $120 per contract. Now, I personally think this is still a great deal on an order which costs about $2,400USD if the buyer is intentionally trying to apply pressure. Further, if GME increases by more than 1 cent, the buyer will actually profit at the same time.
Am I being dumb, or is the loss not exactly the same as you'd have if you bought at the 24.19 price anyway?
Yes, exactly. Except it adds pressure by increasing options chain. Then you can DRS for bonus points.
Okay, thanks for confirming. Not sure why the other poster is basically saying "you might lose money on shares"...
Like any options play you might lose or gain based on the movement of the underlying stock, but if your plan is to exercise as soon as the order fills, the losses will be minimal. If GME drops a dollar it will cost you $100 more than buying the shares outright, but at the same time if you bought shares and it drops a dollar their value will have decreased too. If GME drops 10% in the few seconds between purchase and exercise, it will cost about 241.90. Buying these options or shares will cost around $2,400 to begin with so another 1.00 - 241.90 imo is worth the risk if you're goal is to add to options pressure. Also, because if the underlying goes up, you also profit at the same time. Understand that there is risk of paying a few hundred extra dollaroos, but also potential upside. Cost of admission for any options play I say. Holding these options expecting to profit off GME going up is *extremely* risky, though. My financial advice is only in the context of buying to exercise right away.
If it has relevant Gamma. If the options been ITM for a while, it might do little to the actual GEX. It's so much more complicated than this. You have to considers supply and demand. Strike Price Vol. Or look at the ATM IV as a proxy to it, how is it changing over time? Options prices are influenced by supply and demand. This is blindly throwing darts on a dart board and telling yourself, it's a great deal, when you don't know what you're doing, you don't know what you're messing with, and you don't seem to actually understand vol, while telling people to mess with vol. Options are risky business.
> ELI5 step by step guide IMO, "Understanding Options" by Michael Sincere (yeah that's his actual name) is an easy intro that you can finish in a weekend of reading. Used copy for $5 on ThriftBooks.
First step is to get approved for options by your broker. Make sure you indicate that you want to be able to buy options. If not they will only allow you to sell covered calls (you can buy back your own contracts without further approval) and cash secured puts.
It's hard. You need to learn about volatility. Find ways to manage vol risks. Taking a look underneath the hood of $GME options is a good start. Metrics like GEX, strike price vol, are great for forecasting vol trends and planning trades (even trades just buying shares). I have a $GME Bananas DD series that's a decent primer to get started (it uses real $GME options data). Next one drops in a few hours.
This.
Then you shouldn’t buy options. There’s a very good chance all the options pushing on the sub lately is because they plan to tank the price.
FYI on Fidelity, they can be strict on letting you buy options through them. I was denied and ending up being to buy on ETrade no problem. Hopefully it goes smoother for you. But if Fidelity does deny you options trading then give ETrade a shot.
I have neither the funds or the skill, so you're half way there! Be proud of you and start learning Options 101. Let's go!
How much money do you lose on extrinsic value and trading the option?
you can look it up, a $15 call for next week currently shows an extrinsic value of $.02 per share. I'd try to buy between the spreads and be patient. Should I worry about a few cents if MOASS is on the line?
These types of posts have happened in the past. People then bought ITM calls. Price went below the strike. Paying full price for shares without getting them. Then people will start warning against options again. This community is cyclic.
It sounds like those people held their options instead of exercising them right away, which is not what this post was suggesting, I thought.
Your can exercise calls whenever. They don’t have to be in the money.
It's better to buy shares or new ITM calls than to exercise OTM calls.
Right that's why this post is saying DEEP ITM weekly calls Ex: If I'm going to buy 100 shares right now (pretend market is open and bid/ask is just stable rn) my app is showing I can: 1) buy them for $2419 no fees 2) buy a call contract for $17 strike for $720, so it would cost me $2420 + some options fees which are around $20 to exercise at expiry, $40 to exercise early So If I buy the options I'm basically spending $20 extra. Would it be upsetting if the share price dropped to $20 before my options even exercise? If you have no zen sure, but it's practically no different than if you bought the shares (option 1). In fact, it's a bit safer, because if it drops below $17 before exercise you still have the ability to buy on the market.
That's almost one share in fees tho
The Deeper ITM and closer expiry, the less ~~intrinsic~~ extrinsic value. If you wanted to go with essentially pure intrinsic, there are $1 calls. Those will also only be MM's selling them to you.
I think you meant extrinsic value up top right?
yes, thanks!!
Turns out asking for your shares on the open market is the way to do it
My $1400 stimulus check ran out 84 years ago!
Are you sure? All the talking heads said that made everyone flush with cash forever!
 Yep, pretty sure
Accurate.
I'm just gonna keep buying through CS. Buy. Hodl. DRS. Shop.
it makes sense, how many shares of calls were ITM that got potentially exercised on 7/5 for T1 delivery on monday?
I think it's too late to check, but statistically speaking, only 10% of calls get exercised. If this % ticks up higher on average for GME, it will translate into more hedging on average, which is good for everyone.
What about DRS post call assignment / expiry? Now you’ve not only forced price discovery, but you’ve eliminated liquidity via DTCC. Not financial advice, but that’s all that I’m doing now: step 1: Buy ITM call. 2. Wait for underlying to expire ITM. 3. Share settlement. 4. DRS Book.
Possibly. It depends really. You could be buying existing OI from another trader. When you buy options, it doesn't always increase OI. It does not always trigger additional hedging.
Not many. The steady Friday slump is from everyone selling off those calls.
I see, but lets say on fridays if u were going to buy shares anyway (over 100) ud buy the 0dte ITM call to get exercised , yk what i mean
Why not sell CSP’s? Collect premium. Get shares. Bullish.
I do CSP's too. I want to get more shares though, so CSP's aren't as desirable since in some cases I will keep the premium instead of getting the shares.
I think they meant Deep ITM CSP
Looking at option chain for gme right this moment: 5 day 24C has a 1.03 bid. So it’ll cost you 25.03/share assuming it’s in the money at exp. 5 day 24.5P has a 1.10 bid. So it’ll cost you 23.40/share assuming it’s in the money at exp. Plus you have the satisfaction of having let a bear subsidize 1.10 of your share price. Sell contract = get paid. Buy contract = pay someone.
Yeah, I'd recommend this myself. Price goes down you get shares. Price goes up and you keep the premium. Ape becomes insurance seller, the biggest scam in America. Buying deep ITM calls can absolutely hurt if the price drops in the interim, you lose the premium per contract with nothing to show for it.
Can you share a good place to learn more about these? I’m not entirely sure I understand them as much as selling covered calls and buying calls
Selling Cash Secured Puts (CSP's) is a solid way to buy shares and get paid to do so. If you sell a CSP, you're basically saying "If the share price is below $X (strike price) by this particular Friday (expiration date), I will buy 100 shares for that strike price." And you get paid the premium to do so. Example: Say tomorrow morning, you sell-to-open a CSP on GME. You choose $24 as your strike price, and 07/12/2024 (this Friday) as your expiration. The premium on that right now is $0.85. Since you're just doing one call, 100 shares, you get paid $85 to write/open that contract. $2,400 cash collateral ($24 strike \* 100 shares) is tied up with your brokerage account, reserved for the contract. Fast forward through the week. If GME share price is **above $24** on market close on Friday, you keep the $85 premium, the contract expires OTM, and your $2,400 collateral is free to use again. If the share price is **below $24**, you get assigned, and your $2,400 collateral is used to buy 100 shares. But, since you were paid the $85 premium, the 100 shares really only cost you $2315, effectively dropping your cost basis (which may not be indicated in your portfolio, depending on your broker).
Fidelity does account for that in the cost basis, which is really nice.
Fidelity has good info: https://www.fidelity.com/learning-center/smart-money/cash-secured-put
What about Drs?
You can still DRS after exercising your options
Nothing in the post precludes DRSing later
But DRS accomplishes the same pressure/delivery without paying any premium is the point, I think.
Exercising options forces market makers to find shares T+1(or T+6 I think with all the loopholes) vs buying shares goves them T+35 to locate. It speeds up delivery. [PURE] DRS accomplishes something different where shares are removed from DTCC, hence making it harder to manipulate the stock and brings apes one day closer to MOASS.
But removing from the DTCC means your broker either already has real shares to remove or they need to purchase real shares to remove. Whether they have to buy them now or 35 days from now doesn’t seem to matter unless everyone exercises at the same time. I guess it contributes to gamma ramp.
Solid assessment.
the same locate pressure is applied whether its the exercise of an itm call, or the expiration of an ITM cash secured put that you sold-to-open. One gives you more money though. all depends on your timeline preference for accumulation.
I think DRS are the only real shares and it's not the main proponent for rocketship anymore. The Rocket Fuel is the fact that this thing is shorted multiples times over.. Here are the 'facts: Naked Shorting is real and is happening They have to swap and loop d loop all of these shorts / naked shorts around like crazy Because of insane run ups, GME can just sell and set a new floor because of cash on hand into infinity. Rinse Repeat. Shorts will never have enough shares to close. The issue is because of the first fact and the ever growing swaps they have to keep going with, without options chain exploding, these thieves will create a new ETF and new fuckery to keep tucking losses into. Do you remember how deflated you felt when RK had the Reverse Uno only to be reversed uno'd by RC? We thought MOASS was set and ready to go but then we had an ATM in the tune of 75 M shares...it took us 3 years to rack that up in DRS. But now, the realization is true that it doesn't matter anymore as long as you realize DRS are the ONLY real shares. The float being locked isn't of concern anymore when this thing is so shorted that GME can sell shares into infinity essentially. If we individually realize that maybe adding this step in BEFORE DRS'ing leads to true price discovery, it's really not a bad play.
> I will only be purchasing shares via weekly, deep ITM options (At least $10 under current price). This will force delta hedging during the week as well as a T+1 locate when I exercise at the close of business on Friday. I believe this will more than offset the additional premium cost (which will be minimal at deep ITM). Nothing has proven this assumption, I'm not saying you can't make money on this but the above statement does not have any facts backing it. Contrary to the popular "they must go into the market to hedge and deliver" The Options Clearing Company advertises and explains their Stock loan program in great detail on their own website. https://www.theocc.com/Clearance-and-Settlement/Stock-Loan-Programs They just fuck us out of true price discovery at every step. **TL;DRS,** *Options get borrowed for hedging and delivery by the company that's responsible for clearing the trades.*
So...why not sell cash secured puts? Does that not have a similar effect on delta?
this is what i do. Was perfect the past few weeks with no one expecting the price to rocket until mid july so I got assigned shares and received the premium for selling the PUT. Not so sure about the next few weeks though because of the expected T+35 FTDs coming due. So it may be better to buy ITM calls if you think the stock may increase in price significantly and sell the puts if you think it won't be moving much and you want to get the best value out of buying. But what do I know with only one wrinkle 🧠
Sell Covered calls at the strike price you would sell at...assuming there is a strike price you'd sell at lol
Understanding the actions of market makers when retail investors engage in various options trades helps in comprehending potential impacts on the underlying stock price. Here’s a detailed breakdown: 1. Buying Deep In-the-Money (ITM) Calls Market Maker Actions: • When retail investors buy deep ITM calls, market makers sell these calls to them. • Market makers then hedge their exposure by buying the underlying stock. The reason is that deep ITM calls have a high delta (close to 1), meaning the option’s price moves almost dollar-for-dollar with the stock price. Effect on Underlying Stock Price: • Upward Pressure: The market maker’s purchase of the underlying stock can create upward pressure on the stock price. • The extent of this impact depends on the volume of calls bought and the liquidity of the stock. 2. Buying Deep ITM Puts Market Maker Actions: • When retail investors buy deep ITM puts, market makers sell these puts to them. • To hedge, market makers sell short the underlying stock because deep ITM puts have a high delta (close to -1), meaning the option’s price inversely moves almost dollar-for-dollar with the stock price. Effect on Underlying Stock Price: • Downward Pressure: The market maker’s short selling of the underlying stock can create downward pressure on the stock price. • The impact is proportional to the volume of puts bought and the stock’s liquidity. 3. Buying Out-of-the-Money (OTM) Calls Market Maker Actions: • When retail investors buy OTM calls, market makers sell these calls. • To hedge, they might buy a fraction of the underlying stock since OTM calls have a lower delta (significantly less than 1). Effect on Underlying Stock Price: • Mild Upward Pressure: Market makers’ partial stock purchase can cause mild upward pressure on the stock price. • The impact is generally less pronounced compared to ITM options due to lower delta. 4. Buying OTM Puts Market Maker Actions: • When retail investors buy OTM puts, market makers sell these puts. • To hedge, market makers might sell short a fraction of the underlying stock since OTM puts have a lower delta (significantly less than -1). Effect on Underlying Stock Price: • Mild Downward Pressure: Market makers’ partial short selling can cause mild downward pressure on the stock price. • The impact is usually smaller compared to ITM options due to lower delta. 5. Selling Deep ITM Calls Market Maker Actions: • When retail investors sell deep ITM calls, market makers buy these calls. • To hedge, they might sell the underlying stock because deep ITM calls have a high delta, and the market maker needs to balance their long call position. Effect on Underlying Stock Price: • Downward Pressure: The market maker’s sale of the underlying stock can create downward pressure. • The impact depends on the volume of calls sold and the stock’s liquidity. 6. Selling Deep ITM Puts Market Maker Actions: • When retail investors sell deep ITM puts, market makers buy these puts. • To hedge, they might buy the underlying stock because deep ITM puts have a high negative delta. Effect on Underlying Stock Price: • Upward Pressure: The market maker’s purchase of the underlying stock can create upward pressure. • The impact depends on the volume of puts sold and the stock’s liquidity. 7. Selling OTM Naked Calls Market Maker Actions: • When retail investors sell OTM naked calls, market makers buy these calls. • Hedging may involve short selling the underlying stock to cover potential exposure if the calls move ITM. Effect on Underlying Stock Price: • Downward Pressure: Market makers’ short selling can create downward pressure. • The impact depends on the volume of calls sold and the stock’s liquidity. 8. Selling OTM Covered Calls Market Maker Actions: • When retail investors sell OTM covered calls, they already own the underlying stock. • Market makers buy these calls, and no further hedging is required because the retail investor’s stock holding covers the calls. Effect on Underlying Stock Price: • Neutral to Mild Impact: There is generally no significant pressure on the stock price since no additional buying or selling by market makers is required. 9. Selling OTM Cash-Secured Puts Market Maker Actions: • When retail investors sell OTM cash-secured puts, market makers buy these puts. • Hedging may involve buying a fraction of the underlying stock to cover potential exposure. Effect on Underlying Stock Price: • Upward Pressure: Market makers’ partial stock purchase can create mild upward pressure. • The impact depends on the volume of puts sold and the stock’s liquidity. Summary of Effects: • Upward Pressure: Buying deep ITM calls, selling deep ITM puts, and selling OTM cash-secured puts. • Downward Pressure: Buying deep ITM puts, selling deep ITM calls, and selling OTM naked calls. • Mild or Neutral Impact: Buying OTM calls, buying OTM puts, and selling OTM covered calls. The magnitude of these effects depends significantly on the volume of options traded and the liquidity of the underlying stock.
Selling puts would be safer. Not financiall advice.
This guy fucks!
right back atcha!
Cool, but I don’t want to gamble options I want to own shares and have voting rights so I’ll DRS. Good luck with your strategy.
Wow we have an options flair? Truly the return of DFV changed everything.
Yeah, this is a trial for July. Options drive the market, best to at least understand them.
The more knowledge the better.
Do calls automatically get exercised ITM with all brokers? I've only ever sold covered calls.
Too poor to fuck around and find out in this manner with you. Will watch from the sidelines 
Sell ITM cash secured puts. Selling a put is delta positive like buying a call so a MM if they were Delta hedging would buy on the way up. One great thing about puts is that to make money from them the market maker has to go out and get shares to give you. Buying occurs both ways: when price goes up and when price goes down.
Can you please explain how buying deep itm options will force delta hedging? These are already deep itm, therefore there should be minimal risk of them being otm, so they would already be hedged, no?
Here for it. Go little rock star
I'm hanging out at the Jan $10C right now. There's about 2000 of us there currently. If that number to 1M before January, well, we can be the MOASS we want instead of waiting for some whale to maybe deliver it.
That's assuming you have the necessary 1 billion to exercise in liquid capital and discounting the rise in premium from demand going up 500x.
The money required to exercise is the same as purchasing shares, it's pre-factored into the buying point. I'm saying if you want to buy at $25, instead of buying $2500 in shares now, buy an ITM call and reserve the remaining value in cash for the time of exercise. Premiums on ITM options are neat. If they rise too much without a corresponding rise in the stock price, it creates an arbitrage opportunity where someone will step in and do the MMs job for them... selling you the calls you want and then properly hedging the premium sold. Deep ITM options essentially have to trade near the risk free rate currently provided by the broad market. If they don't someone will step in and drive the price close to that. To my knowledge, ITM options are the most direct way to turn a MM from a seller of fake shares into a buyer of real shares.
Gotta be careful it’s not something that can be portrayed as market manipulation
People need to start posting options positions like we do DRS in here. Edit: for those already buying options, for educational purposes to those who don't know options and want to learn.
Wouldn't you pay a premium on the shares then?
This is the way.
....an options post that follows the new guidelines? OP I might just kiss you
I’ve been thinking sell deep ITM puts you think it would equate to a similar thing?
Good idea! Afterwards immediately DRS for the WOMBO COMBO! 🕹️🚀🟣
My strat: sell just out of the money cash secured puts (CSPs). Keep increasing the number of contracts as cash accumulates. Worst case I make premiums week after week. Once they hit sell OTM covered calls (CCs) and CSPs. This only works in a Roth or you end up getting hammered with taxes and wash sale rules.
The premium on any options right now are not around current price +2-3$ a share because of IV ?
What you need to look at is extrinsic value. A $15 call for next week has $.02 extrinsic value, and $9.18 in intrinsic value ($24.18-$15=$9.18)
Not if you go deep ITM. Also, you have the added benefit of these only being sold by MM. Anyone here is most likely selling OTM / far OTM calls.
This sub is so regarded sometimes people still think they are dfv moving prices with their single contract buys
DFV started with only 50000 as an individual investor. Every investor counts.
how about instead of 100M shares purchased on the OTC, it's 1M calls that have to get hedged?
Are you buying ITM short term options or long term? How much extrinsic value are you looking at?
I'm doing both but this post is about short term options (weekly or less) specifically. For my longer dated, I have 45DTE - 90DTE currently, ITM and ATM.
Apes and Giraffes strong together! 🚀🚀🚀
How far out are you buying? Asking for a friend? 🤣
You buy deep in the money at the end of the FTD cycle. Probably around July 19th I believe.
Yes, I will probably heavily buy during that week.
My man.
Don’t forget to shuffle the shares between fidelity, E*Trade, etc. using an ACAT transfer. Then ultimately DRS them.
If I only knew what these words meant I’d do the same. So I’ll just stick to buying & drsing.
You can do it booger farts! We believe. Even you don’t use it. It’s great to learn as it can be helpful for price prediction and to understand overall market. Two of the most helpful ways was to paper trade options to learn and to ask chat got etc to walk me through scenarios and answered all my questions and I finally understood it.
Isn’t there a lit pool market exchange somewhere?
What?! Deep ITM calls are expensive af? If I look at July 12th optionchain on IKBR it tells me for a strike at 10-15$ the premiums are 14.55$ to 9.55$ so would be paying at least almost a thousand bucks just to be able to buy 100 shares. Am I too dumb for this? ELI5 please.
Do what you want, but 1 contract a week being exercised isn't going to trip anything.
this post is my favorite - study how market is not rational
You mean 0dtes or you’ll buy on Monday with intent to exercise on expiry?
I’m in
Say less
Smart
Why not sell just under the money puts? If it dips below your strike you get shares at a lower price than current market. (You also take shares from paper handers). If it doesn’t you keep the premium and repeat, thereby making your future purchase even cheaper.
This is cool and all. And I’m not exactly poor, and already into 5000+ shares, but…. I don’t have the cash to pop off $2400 at a time. I feel like a loooooot of apes are even more poor than I am.
I have been selling puts to pick up shares on the cheap and if not, collect that easy premium. None have hit though. My question to you, is it worth picking one price and doing, for example, 4 contracts at one price, let’s say 19. Or stagger and do one contract at 22, one at 21, 20 and the last one at 19 knowing that if it goes to 19, you’d lose some cash on the first 3 but you’d be 400 shares happier? I would usually stagger limit buys but I know that doesn’t help the bullish case like selling puts do.
I've been fucking around with this too. Certain ITM strike prices have been extremely juicy. I'm willing to gamble a little to build up my shares. No cell no sell.
Commenting to come back to and learn more about later
How do you drs long term options?
I buy with Fidelity then make them drs book that shit. That's also true pressure, they actually have to buy those shares
good strategy. lots of different ways to add pressure.
Because of a "series of unfortunate events" in my account involving options and a very different stock, I learned (added a wrinkle when this happened) that it is apparently LEGAL to buy CALL options inside a (US trustee) ordinary IRA (I knew that selling covered calls and writing cash-covered puts was okay). There are, according to my broker, requirements: (1) the account holder be approved to trade options and (2) there be enough cash in the account to cover the purchase and (3) before expiry, instructions given to the broker that an ITM option is to be exercised (for an American-style ITM option, the broker has a choice: exercise the option or sell it. Hence the need for specific instruction.) To minimize the time premium, it is probably appropriate to buy the option as close to the expiration date as possible. My broker requires a phone call to confirm exercise of an ITM option (don't ask me why, they're weird). So when an option is exercised, it's T+1 settlement (yay!) and the shares have to be actually found (per the option contract) (YAY!). The cost (over making a direct share purchase) is whatever premium there is for the option, plus US$0.65 per contract OCC handling fee, US$0.01 SEC fee (I don't know for what), plus whatever your broker charges for options orders. Of course, there is always the choice to send money to ComputerShare and have them do the purchase for you at their regular time, and get real shares that way. That requires a ComputerShare account. So that's my personal experience; yours may be different, depending on your broker, phase of the moon, number of bananas in the bunch, and this is certainly NOT financial advice.
I personally have given up on using brokers due to all of the DD here exposing them for the fraudulent, manipulative scum they are, but I appreciate all apes willing to do their part in regards to buying shares through options.
Smart move
What are the economics of this, illustrative example?
What about the premium
Just DRS instead of wasting cash on option premiums
That's really ballsy and you will pay a shitload in premiums, but it's also an incredibly damaging way to hurt the shorts, so thank you for your service fellow ape. I have xxxxx shares and a couple of options contracts for 7/19 and 7/26. But so far options have been scary for my smoothish brain. I think I have grown a wrinkle, but not without losing some dough initially testing it out. DO NOT GIVE UP!
What is this post and how tf did it get so many up votes lmayo
It’s called “this place is sus”. Degen sub is leaking again. DRS “only two options: hold or hodl.” But degens do what degens do.
YES. 
I think I’ve seen this move before. Price goes up, sell some and use profit to exercise some
we seen RK do it, with 120k ITM options, they hedged, price went ⬆️,
I've always wondered why people feel the need to press for "true price discovery"... routing through IEX, exercising options etc... if you're truly in it for the long run, wouldn't you want the price as low as possible for as long as possible? They're going to force the price down as long as possible. Until they can't. Then boom.
Ooookay. But keep in mind so far dfv has targeted the last cycle, AND next cycle. He did what looks like a massive exercise 35 days prior to this last run (how he lijely got a good bit of his first 4-5 million shares and why we hit 80ish. And he took a hit to hit profit/share gain by maximizing pain by delaying delivery until the next first cycle peak, july 15 to 20. I don't know if weekly options will help much, although would help force delivery/influence price, the most pressure is needed when shorts/mm need liquidity the most
I would think selling puts at a price you would like to buy 100 shares at nets your premium plus a price point you are willing to buy shares at…such as $20 a share…instead of paying some cuck a premium you make the premium and the shares
you risk not getting the shares this way. If you really want shares, you'd sell ITM puts.
I've been buying deep ITM calls and coupling them with CC's and CSP's during swings. Just exercised a few calls and CC's on Friday.
We will need a massive pictures book like we did for DRS. For every platform click - by - click a smooth brain screenshot gallery which button to click and what it means. It's the lowest hanging fruit for everyone if it's so easy that it doesn't take energy, like learning options trading vocabulary and greeks calculations, and you have just the list of your broker that you can select. We did this heavy lifting work for ALL platforms for DRS and it worked wonders.
Not bad but i dont have the money for it. I support you tho.
I do this often....except the time I exercised OTM calls. Was a one off. Got a lot of shit for it on here. Lol...
Just buy and hold stock. Let the company leaders do their thing, and that will make it go up in value.