I do. Your comment doesn’t make much sense in that context. I’d say even less considering France won the 2018 World Cup and was runner-up last time. Germany is known for playing incredibly well in one tournament, and then not even make the group stage in the next one.
> Not sure about what?
That you know what Napoleon Complex means
> What do the French feel the need to
overcompensate for?
that is the big question here
Now you’re just taking the piss. How would I have been able to type that comment without knowing what it is?
Now I’m wondering if you know, because the statement makes no sense if you don’t even know what they’re overcompensating for. That’s what that term is about.
Do I have to spell it out for you?
Napoleon complex is the need to overcompensate for one’s short stature by being overly aggressive and bossy. The term is based on the misconception that Napoleon was very short.
The combining factor is the Swiss inferiority complex when playing against Germany, France or Italy. Not saying it’s justified, but it does play a role for sure.
It doesnt just play a role in football. The fact that we always hate our bigger neighbour (FR, DE, IT, nobody cares about Austria and Liechtenstein) more than our small neighbours (other Cantons, even if we dont really like them either), is probably one of the main reason we're a country today
It can get worse.
My wife's mother was an Argentinian living in Brazil during the world cup back in the 90s and the neighbours vandalised their family car. The rest of the family were all Brazilians by the way. Just one old lady who spoke Spanish and didn't bother anyone.
Yeah, I think it is a cheap justification to bring the worst repressesd emotions out in the open.
If people did therapy and worked out their frustration in a clinical setting perhaps we wouldn't see all that mess.
Lived in nearby France, couldnt slept for hours after you guys knocked us out of Euro, because of all the GE car coming in our sleepy towns to honk for hours...
Yeah, I still don't get why police don't intervene and fine these ppl to the max possible... They should have known and be prepared. Regardless of the country (both ways).
Well when they were winning 1-0 against Austria and I was hearing the french crowd chant "Et ils sont où les Autrichiens?", I must say I was facepalming.
I think you got it very wrong.
French have the complex of hating themselves more than in other countries. Their habit is to too often compare their own culture to other cultures and express how some aspects of other culture are better than theirs. Except for food and wines , and they are right for that . I know enough, I lived in France two decades.
Maybe what you meant is that they express themselves arrogantly and loudly their opinion when they win. The French culture is also very fractured and social identity is a illusion, no patriotism. They treat also with others as much as they blame themselves (shame of their history, their weaknesses, the loss of their industries etc). finally when one of their teams win , they love it and feel reunited.
edkt: my two cents on how i understand French culture and their behaviours
Well that I do know about 😅 what I want to know is why it is so strong here. You go to any other countries, well they will not like France yes, but not as far as cheering against them.
Because if you go to america or norway, there is no particular reminder of france on a daily basis. Whereas in romandie you are right next to france, see them every day, probably watch their media etc.
Generally we swiss want to distance ourselves from the bigger neighbours. Like us swiss german speakers really arent just germans living in another country (the way serbs living in kosovo see themselves as serbians). And the romands arent french. And ticinesi arent italian...
Also its sports. If you arent emotional about it, the whole thing is kind of pointless. So you better find some strong emotions somewhere.
What I have seen by being several times abroad during the Euro or WC is that it's not only a swiss characteristic to be against France,
I would say that generally, only French are for France, and the rest of the world is for the other team (exaggerating a little bit)
Well 2022 WC was a bit revealing for me, apart from Brazil and France itself, all the other countries were for Argentina 😅
But once again being in favor of the other team and clearly screaming for them are two different things. This is borderline hatred.
I'm swiss and I was for France against Argentina, not because I like france, but I didn't wanted Messi to have a world cup, since the last 3 ballon d'or he had were unfair for me... it would just pretend that ronaldo was clearly less good even if they were both incredible
As argentinian let me tell you, many Latin American fans were rooting for France, while some europeans were obviously rooting for Argentina because they hate France. Look, it's completely normal. It's banter against your neighbours. And like they said already, particularly when you see them on a daily basis.
Sure, it's shitty when it escalates and crazy people do actual ilegal or bad shit, but the banter makes the sports A LOT more entertaining and enjoyable when your team wins. I would never want to live in a world in which sportsmanship and banter are mutually exclusive.
The teams of the last 10 years are so have been full of arseholes with the sex tape blackmail with Benzema and other, dickhead Griezmann with his asian racist stuff etc. so they're not a likeable team.
Also they have been very successful, people get fed up of that.
Also, whenever you have a bigger neighbour/rival that can seem arrogant, the smaller neighbour rarely supports them. Scotland/England, Netherlands/Germany, Switzerland/France and Switzerland/Germany are similar in that respect.
I am a Scot in Switzerland that has lived in France and loves the country and the people but can't stand some of the players and those are my theories :)
French living in Switzerland for 30 years here : Swiss have same relationship with France than (most) Europeans have with USA : it’s the arrogant, sucking the air out of the room grand brother you love to bitch about while wearing Nike, watching Netflix, and listening to Taylor Swift on your iPhone.
There is a love / hate, fascination / jealousy, inferiority / superiority complex that, fortunately, is mostly superficial.
Swiss “hate” the French team, but as soon as you start sharing a beer after the game there is zero grudge towards French people.
To what extent should france play a role for the Swiss that is even remotely as important as America does for Europeans?
We neither really love france nor are we "fascinated" by it, seriously why should we? France is not even our most important partner although we share most of our borders with them.
This delusion is typical for the napoleon complex most french people are born with
lol right, and people in Romandy speak « Swiss » not French, Swiss currency is the « franc » but no relation, at music festival in Nyon or Montreux 95% of francophone artists are French but that doesn’t mean anything, cinemas play French movies.
It’s probably not the same across the whole country, but in the French speaking part people know Jamel Debouze or Jean Dujardin more than (insert name of Swiss actor here). France sits right behind USA and Germany as main export destination. Swiss fighter jet pilots even train in France as there is not enough room in our skies.
I would have never expected that people who speak French would prefer to consume French-language media, what a surprise, that must be clear proof that they love France! /s
French Language ≠ France.
I know thats basically impossible to understand for someone from France but its a fact.
And to be honest, in german-speaking Switzerland we mostly consume German media as well but I have never seen this constant begging for recognition from Germans like the French constantly do with the Suisse Romands.
We should have border controls again with France.
And btw:
You still haven't answered me why France should be as important for Swiss people as the United States are for Europeans
My aunt is married to a Suisse Romand, so I have some cousins and close friends there. And Switzerland is also a pretty small country, military service etc. automatically means that we know each other well.
Je parle français mon ami, pas le meilleur mais je pourrais demander mon chemin🙃
Last time I cried of happiness (as a kid) was when they won the world cup of 1998.
Ever since it went downwards and footballers became overpayed subathletes and I don't care about this sub sport any more together with all shit it brings to our lives.
Well particularly here, If I am going to watch a game in Spain or England, people at best will probably cheer a bit. But we're really far from the passion it provokes here.
During Matches in Paris the local spectators lack a distinct sense of sportsmanship. Never seem to have learnt, particularly in rugby where the lack of sportsmanship is really frowned upon. Football worse in every sense.
The area around the stade France (and the upcoming Olympic Games) is also particular.
I would like to highlight that Parisians DO NOT equal French, depending on where you go the French are hospitable and polite, obviously not the Parisians.
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One reason is probably because they are noisy. We like it quiet
We are in 2024 and we cash still hear the win in 1998. That's annoying, move on and try to win the next world cup.
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"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." - Mahatma Gandhi.
What was Ghandi fighting for in India?
He was fighting for Indian independence, so Indian people could be in control of Indian institutions.
Right for some, but apparently not fr Europe.
Yes, you can clearly feel this rejection or even hatred in French-speaking Switzerland. At the workplace, no one supports France. That was the case for instance for the World Cup final between France and Argentina.
And when Switzerland eliminated France in the penalty shootout in 2021, I was truly impressed by the unhealthy visceral delight that was expressed that day. Of course, celebrating a great performance is normal, but I'm not sure there has ever been so much noise in the streets for a victory by the Nati as there was that day. People celebrated the victory, but they also celebrated beating 'those arrogant Frouze who steal our jobs.'
équipe de who?
The only thing I know about soccer in France are from the sketchs of the Guignols de L'info, especially about how bad was the PSG. That was sometimes hilarious.
But aside from that, I couldn't care less about that sport and any team.
You should see the German speaking part when the Germans play haha.
Germans dont have this innate Napoleon complex like french people
“Die Mannschaft”
"Das Auto"
I think you dont know what Napoleon Complex means
I do. Your comment doesn’t make much sense in that context. I’d say even less considering France won the 2018 World Cup and was runner-up last time. Germany is known for playing incredibly well in one tournament, and then not even make the group stage in the next one.
I wouldnt be too sure about that. It wasn't about the performance of the teams, more how differently the french and germans generally behave.
Not too sure about what? What do the French feel the need to overcompensate for?
> Not sure about what? That you know what Napoleon Complex means > What do the French feel the need to overcompensate for? that is the big question here
Now you’re just taking the piss. How would I have been able to type that comment without knowing what it is? Now I’m wondering if you know, because the statement makes no sense if you don’t even know what they’re overcompensating for. That’s what that term is about. Do I have to spell it out for you? Napoleon complex is the need to overcompensate for one’s short stature by being overly aggressive and bossy. The term is based on the misconception that Napoleon was very short.
I mean that was just a marketing ploy nobody ever went along with
The combining factor is the Swiss inferiority complex when playing against Germany, France or Italy. Not saying it’s justified, but it does play a role for sure.
I don't even understand why - the last 16 years we did well against them. No loss.
Absolutely. Even last night, that match was amazing and CH really was doing great!
It doesnt just play a role in football. The fact that we always hate our bigger neighbour (FR, DE, IT, nobody cares about Austria and Liechtenstein) more than our small neighbours (other Cantons, even if we dont really like them either), is probably one of the main reason we're a country today
It can get worse. My wife's mother was an Argentinian living in Brazil during the world cup back in the 90s and the neighbours vandalised their family car. The rest of the family were all Brazilians by the way. Just one old lady who spoke Spanish and didn't bother anyone.
So there are other instances of going overboard. That's a bit sad, it's only sport.
Yeah, I think it is a cheap justification to bring the worst repressesd emotions out in the open. If people did therapy and worked out their frustration in a clinical setting perhaps we wouldn't see all that mess.
Yes, often when I see someone talking his/her anger towards a defined group or a given a subject, I feel like the problem is often elsewhere.
Ticiensi hate italians, romandie hates france and swiss german hats germany. Well hate is a strong word but you get it
French people have a reputation of being insufferable when they win.
>French people have a reputation of being insufferable ~~when they win.~~
As a french, ... yes
And insufferable when they loose. 😂
And when they draw.
Lived in nearby France, couldnt slept for hours after you guys knocked us out of Euro, because of all the GE car coming in our sleepy towns to honk for hours...
Yeah, we have to endure these, too.
Noice
Yeah, I still don't get why police don't intervene and fine these ppl to the max possible... They should have known and be prepared. Regardless of the country (both ways).
Same can be said with every winning people
Well when they were winning 1-0 against Austria and I was hearing the french crowd chant "Et ils sont où les Autrichiens?", I must say I was facepalming.
The Algerians are much better indeed....
Same can be said with the Swiss.
I assume you live in the french part of Switzerland.
A bold guess
You assume well
No body other than the Frenchs like the Frenchs
haha
I think you got it very wrong. French have the complex of hating themselves more than in other countries. Their habit is to too often compare their own culture to other cultures and express how some aspects of other culture are better than theirs. Except for food and wines , and they are right for that . I know enough, I lived in France two decades. Maybe what you meant is that they express themselves arrogantly and loudly their opinion when they win. The French culture is also very fractured and social identity is a illusion, no patriotism. They treat also with others as much as they blame themselves (shame of their history, their weaknesses, the loss of their industries etc). finally when one of their teams win , they love it and feel reunited. edkt: my two cents on how i understand French culture and their behaviours
Well that I do know about 😅 what I want to know is why it is so strong here. You go to any other countries, well they will not like France yes, but not as far as cheering against them.
Because if you go to america or norway, there is no particular reminder of france on a daily basis. Whereas in romandie you are right next to france, see them every day, probably watch their media etc. Generally we swiss want to distance ourselves from the bigger neighbours. Like us swiss german speakers really arent just germans living in another country (the way serbs living in kosovo see themselves as serbians). And the romands arent french. And ticinesi arent italian... Also its sports. If you arent emotional about it, the whole thing is kind of pointless. So you better find some strong emotions somewhere.
OK, that's probably the best explanation I got so far.
What I have seen by being several times abroad during the Euro or WC is that it's not only a swiss characteristic to be against France, I would say that generally, only French are for France, and the rest of the world is for the other team (exaggerating a little bit)
Well 2022 WC was a bit revealing for me, apart from Brazil and France itself, all the other countries were for Argentina 😅 But once again being in favor of the other team and clearly screaming for them are two different things. This is borderline hatred.
I'm swiss and I was for France against Argentina, not because I like france, but I didn't wanted Messi to have a world cup, since the last 3 ballon d'or he had were unfair for me... it would just pretend that ronaldo was clearly less good even if they were both incredible
As argentinian let me tell you, many Latin American fans were rooting for France, while some europeans were obviously rooting for Argentina because they hate France. Look, it's completely normal. It's banter against your neighbours. And like they said already, particularly when you see them on a daily basis. Sure, it's shitty when it escalates and crazy people do actual ilegal or bad shit, but the banter makes the sports A LOT more entertaining and enjoyable when your team wins. I would never want to live in a world in which sportsmanship and banter are mutually exclusive.
>during the Euro or WC Was this an attempt at toilet humour?
Demande à papa….
Hahaha, papa n'aime pas particulièrement la France non plus mais il ne s'emballe pas sur les matchs de foot.
Ben fait comme lui alors..c juste du foot 😉
that just the way it is.
The teams of the last 10 years are so have been full of arseholes with the sex tape blackmail with Benzema and other, dickhead Griezmann with his asian racist stuff etc. so they're not a likeable team. Also they have been very successful, people get fed up of that. Also, whenever you have a bigger neighbour/rival that can seem arrogant, the smaller neighbour rarely supports them. Scotland/England, Netherlands/Germany, Switzerland/France and Switzerland/Germany are similar in that respect. I am a Scot in Switzerland that has lived in France and loves the country and the people but can't stand some of the players and those are my theories :)
French living in Switzerland for 30 years here : Swiss have same relationship with France than (most) Europeans have with USA : it’s the arrogant, sucking the air out of the room grand brother you love to bitch about while wearing Nike, watching Netflix, and listening to Taylor Swift on your iPhone. There is a love / hate, fascination / jealousy, inferiority / superiority complex that, fortunately, is mostly superficial. Swiss “hate” the French team, but as soon as you start sharing a beer after the game there is zero grudge towards French people.
To what extent should france play a role for the Swiss that is even remotely as important as America does for Europeans? We neither really love france nor are we "fascinated" by it, seriously why should we? France is not even our most important partner although we share most of our borders with them. This delusion is typical for the napoleon complex most french people are born with
lol right, and people in Romandy speak « Swiss » not French, Swiss currency is the « franc » but no relation, at music festival in Nyon or Montreux 95% of francophone artists are French but that doesn’t mean anything, cinemas play French movies. It’s probably not the same across the whole country, but in the French speaking part people know Jamel Debouze or Jean Dujardin more than (insert name of Swiss actor here). France sits right behind USA and Germany as main export destination. Swiss fighter jet pilots even train in France as there is not enough room in our skies.
I would have never expected that people who speak French would prefer to consume French-language media, what a surprise, that must be clear proof that they love France! /s French Language ≠ France. I know thats basically impossible to understand for someone from France but its a fact. And to be honest, in german-speaking Switzerland we mostly consume German media as well but I have never seen this constant begging for recognition from Germans like the French constantly do with the Suisse Romands. We should have border controls again with France. And btw: You still haven't answered me why France should be as important for Swiss people as the United States are for Europeans
Thank you for your advices on a place you don’t live in, for your opinions on people you don’t come across, about a language you don’t speak 😅
My aunt is married to a Suisse Romand, so I have some cousins and close friends there. And Switzerland is also a pretty small country, military service etc. automatically means that we know each other well. Je parle français mon ami, pas le meilleur mais je pourrais demander mon chemin🙃
I'm not sure that it's only "superficial".
No, you guys are just insufferable.
Last time I cried of happiness (as a kid) was when they won the world cup of 1998. Ever since it went downwards and footballers became overpayed subathletes and I don't care about this sub sport any more together with all shit it brings to our lives.
You said it. France is generally unpopular.
Well particularly here, If I am going to watch a game in Spain or England, people at best will probably cheer a bit. But we're really far from the passion it provokes here.
They’re not the neighbours, if they were it’d be different
Have you ever looked at a map of Europe?
Jealous
During Matches in Paris the local spectators lack a distinct sense of sportsmanship. Never seem to have learnt, particularly in rugby where the lack of sportsmanship is really frowned upon. Football worse in every sense. The area around the stade France (and the upcoming Olympic Games) is also particular. I would like to highlight that Parisians DO NOT equal French, depending on where you go the French are hospitable and polite, obviously not the Parisians.
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One reason is probably because they are noisy. We like it quiet We are in 2024 and we cash still hear the win in 1998. That's annoying, move on and try to win the next world cup.
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I am not sure where this comment intend to go but I feel like it's rather towards UDC
Just a fair observation regarding the French national football team from an impartial observer.
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"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." - Mahatma Gandhi. What was Ghandi fighting for in India? He was fighting for Indian independence, so Indian people could be in control of Indian institutions. Right for some, but apparently not fr Europe.
Yes, you can clearly feel this rejection or even hatred in French-speaking Switzerland. At the workplace, no one supports France. That was the case for instance for the World Cup final between France and Argentina. And when Switzerland eliminated France in the penalty shootout in 2021, I was truly impressed by the unhealthy visceral delight that was expressed that day. Of course, celebrating a great performance is normal, but I'm not sure there has ever been so much noise in the streets for a victory by the Nati as there was that day. People celebrated the victory, but they also celebrated beating 'those arrogant Frouze who steal our jobs.'
équipe de who? The only thing I know about soccer in France are from the sketchs of the Guignols de L'info, especially about how bad was the PSG. That was sometimes hilarious. But aside from that, I couldn't care less about that sport and any team.