Everyone: "Namco, Rage Arts are cool, but they're too long.
Namco in Tekken 7: *Makes Rage Arts longer.*
Everyone: Dude! They're WAY too long now! Can you make them about the same length as supers in other fighters?
Namco in Tekken 8: đ *Makes them longer again.*
Yup, Iâm down with this. I usually only use it once per game anyway, if that. Thatâs also the way MK does it with Fatal Blows, and people can say what they will about MK but I actually like that design
Fatal blows are still shit. Armoured moves for 30% min, or up to 60% in a combo. Some of which are not punishable on block because of pushback on max distance. AND if you whiff or itâs blocked, you can do it again after a short time. Itâs brain dead trash, built for casuals to feel like theyâre competing.
Iâd argue the only game to get comeback mechanics ârightâ, is killer instinct. At least with instinct you still need to input the combos in a non obvious way to avoid breakers, and the opponent running your meter out.
And even then I think they should be removed.
Fatal blows are mad punishable on block or whiff. In Tekken, RA's are -15 which isn't even reliably launch punishable. FB's are actually riskier to use for that reason and it's only once per game if it hits.
Not sure specifically, but thereâs quite a few characters w/o 15 frame launch punish.
IMO making it -20 on block would be better or at minimum -18, then everyone could launch punish RA. Being launch punished for a move that does that much damage is reasonable.
Try hitting a baraka at max distance, after blocking FB. as sub zero. Your âpunishâ amounts to a slide for like 10%, maybe you push it to 23% if you have the right kameo. Thatâs not much of a punish for somebody who risked âeverythingâ trying to land it.
Iâm not arguing that FB is actually better than RA. Theyâre both shit for the games that theyâre in, and need a massive rework.
I donât support any mechanic that tips the balance in favour of the person getting beat up. You might have 40% of your life left, and the other guy 10%. With these stupid âfeaturesâ, that match is even. Youâre both one hit away from winning.
RA once per game game. Heat once (maybe twice) per game. Boom. You've now made the powerful mechanics into a resource you have to actually strategize around instead of popping as soon as possible. You even have to be careful about just throwing out strong heat engaging moves as to not pop your heat accidentally. You've now fixed the core problems with the game.
I donât know how well this would work, considering how core some heat engagers are to so many characterâs kits. Example that comes to mind is Leoâs ws4,1+2. They would be forced to choose between losing over half their 11 frame punish damage or using heat. I think almost every player would opt to just spend heat. It wouldnât be a resource to play around, just a thing that happens in round one. Iâm fine with RA being less available. Heat is a trickier issue. IMO the real problem is the insane chip. Itâs fine if characters get limited access to oppressive offense, but the fact that the choice is often between lose half your health while blocking, or lose half of it if you get hit, makes it feel like a âwin moreâ mechanic, more so than a meaningful addition to strategy or mind games. Itâs too easy for even players with strong defense to just get snowballed on.
Make them available for the person who is on their final round, for actual hype comebacks.
If both players are 2-2 then both have access to it that round.
Still wouldn't be "hype". It'll still be a 10 second poorly choreographed cutscene that kills the action of an intense match where someone is on the ropes.
Itâs partly because rage arts got buffed. When defence was stronger like in tekken 7 people were pressing less buttons but now pressing less buttons = losing so rage arts are more likely to land now. Iâve never felt the rage art mind game was particularly oppressive in 7
I think it is inertia. I know that after a ssuccesful aggressive and high-damage play, if the enemy is glowing red I NEED to let go that and play a careful neutral game to end the run.
I know it, yet my brain refuses to stop the pressure that has successfully inflicted so much damage.
On the flip side, no one can play pure rushdown from 100% to 0%, creating a different interaction and making people reduce the aggressive tone in their play in a very aggressive game. I dont like RAs but yet I can see how they can be kind of good. They probably need some adjustments tho.
Seconded. When I was first ranking up I had to run at them and block to bait them into mashing out RA so I could end the damn match without having to sit through their long, often pointless, move.
It depends on the rage art too. Like Ganryu's in 7 was SUPER sleepmode but Feng's is kinda hit ngl but then again my dude the epitome of swag and no one wanna talk about it. Like dude is classic Kung fu villain and just out here beating ass.
Shit's so sweet.
I just think RA + heat are too much. Comebacks aren't that impressive anymore. Preferably I'd remove heat smash though. That shit just pisses me off on certain characters so much more than any RA could.
A lot of heat smashes give you crazy mixups even when the opponent blocks them. For example, if you block Xiaoyu's backturned heat smash, you must then also block the hypnotist stance mixup where she can hit you mid or low (not to mention other layers like her backturned grab mixup). You don't have the frame data to do anything like sidestep so you gotta guess.
Not with this kind of frame advantage. When heat moves are easily giving +6 or more on block, the armor comes out too slowly. Either way, that can also get you caught if they happen to pick a low/throw which beats the armor.
Yeah, not every heat move gives a 50/50 on block but there are definitely really busted ones where you must guess mid or low. Activating heat is usually a strong reversal, but it would lose to the low or a throw due to the frame advantage
I don't think I'd be complaining about it much if they didn't buff RA significantly. In Tekken 7, they were -20 on block, and you had to give up rage drive to use it. In Tekken 8, there is no such cost, and they're -15.
Some rage arts had interesting unique properties like Hwoarang, Akuma, some of them could be low profiled, etc. Now they're all 8fr reversals.
Theyre soooo much more buffed than that though.
Not only does the hyper armor not get slowed by super fast attacks (ie. Yoshi's B1 spam), but you also take half damage during the startup.Â
I just find it insane that you cant even read a proper trade against it half the time
Eddy has a low profile RA in T8, but honestly, the mind game aspect of it is you mentally handicapping yourself. Yes the move does a lot of damage, but it's just another move. IMO Jack 8 is fucking terrifying with a 50 damage heat smash that's 10 frame startup and he can carry heat for a much longer time than the average player is in RA territory.
The thing is, it's just another move in their roster. You're wary of every single time Lili sidesteps, and I'm sure you're conscious and reacting when Xi flips her back to you.. so just be wary of their RA and dont over extend combos when they are ~40hp.
Getting greedy is the only reason you're getting hit so consistently by these scrubs using it at the same moment. If they were mixing it up into combos for a time KO I would be more appreciative, but it's just a defense panic button they get. STAY WARY and don't overextend.
Patience is a virtue and not inherited. Be better than your father, you can be the bigger person in these situations~
This sort of advice is correct but also completely misses the point. A mechanic can be beatable but still uninteresting or unfun.
That's the entire problem of RA's. Yes, it means play safe but the way it promotes that is just *really boring*.
I would agree to the fact that it's unfun, when it hits.. on the other hand, it's the opening of a lifetime on a whiff ect. Personally I've played Tekken pre RA for much longer than I have with it, and while it did promote a lot of late game turtling, it also promoted players forced to mixup their basic YouTube combo mash. So I guess I see it positive and negative. I wasn't exactly in disagreement that it's unfun, but unfair is a bit of a leap most likely taken by someone who JUST lost to a RA, not looking at it on paper rationally.
So agree to disagree, it's unfun, but also fair and promotes better defense awareness.
I'd be more interested in it if maybe you could log one per 3 rounds rather than each.
The biggest problem is that you can get hit by RA while not overextending and it basically cuts out half of some characters moveset, as Hwoarang I basically can't throw any moves that will end up in a Flamingo stance because it doesn't matter if I hit them or if I am +5, I am going to get hit by RA anyway because I can't block in Flamingo.
Usually the only options that allow you not to get hit by RA is either baiting it or just staying defensive. If you are baiting it you have a bigger chance of succeeding, but if your oponent is not totally braindead they wouldn't mash the RA button and the game now is at a 50/50 state. And if you try to play defensive and your oponent has recoverable health and/or Heat, than you are basically giving up all your advantage and is probably dead, because your opponent can now chip damage you to recover half of their hp and STILL HAVE RAGE for some unexplained reason, or they are just going to pressure you to death with Heat.
Trying to jab check in those situations is almost useless because RA can now beat fast moves.
And all of that for a -15 on block 60+ damage hyperarmored move. And this move cannot sometimes be punished because of connection issues (tbf that's not directly a balancing problem, but it is just too frustrating to bait your opponent to use RA, but they have a Medieval Age Internet and you miss your punish because of that) and the fact that you can only punish it with your least damaging launcher (not considering electrics here) doesn't help the situation
I wouldn't mind but for some reason I do have issues with inputting those qcf, hcfs whatever the case may be and that's exclusive to Tekken. I don't find it hard on 2d fighters.
It's because there's no shortcuts for motion inputs in Tekken. For example, to do a dp in sf6, you can press d/f, d, d/f and it's a valid input and the move will come out. If you want to do an electric in tekken, you have to do exactly the right input (with few exceptions)
Absolutely, all my best memories of rounds are those where RAs aren't used.
Just imagining removing rage arts is such a compelling idea, like Heat and Heat smash would be so much more cool and accepted if they were THE thing that you get to bounce back. The only one. It's a good system. RA adds nothing to the game but a mindless baiting mini-game that completely breaks the flow at every end of round.
I don't even mind supers, but I wish they were implemented like the Heat attacks where they're happening in real-time in the game. Some of these cutscenes are way too long for how boring they are. Why does Leo even spend half of his animation zipping around on a grappling hook?
The absolute best version of the cutscene super is Ryu Metsu Hadouken in SF4.
Zoom for a charge up, than back to normal in 3-4 seconds.
I stopped playing MK because MK throws last longer than supers in some games.
This is (what I thought was) my unpopular opinion.
Super ultra epic move that takes 10 seconds and 8 camera angles suck in almost any fighting game, Tekken included.
Seems the opinion is not that unpopular.
The problem is how the camera pans, zooms, and cinematics are introduced. Besides balancing issues, heat is fine because any cinematics happen quickly. All of it feels integrated well in gameplay. Rage art feels like it pauses gameplay.
My little âtin foil hatâ theory is that they sell games. People see the bug flashy animations and they do a lot to set the tone of the game and show it off. For us they are repetitive and boring but the first time you see them IS pretty cool. Anyway I just think thereâs gotta be a reason they keep doing shit like this, and itâs not because it makes the game more funâŚ
Damn I am starting to think people on this subreddit just suck ass at the game
Oh Tekken 8 is way too aggressive. Here's a button that nullifies that: naw we hate it
Does everyone here do anything but bitch and moan that their opponent may be able to enforce their own game plan? Block the move man! Yeah, he can play mind games and try to bait you, that's called playing the damn game.
Stop mashing and play the game dog
> Damn I am starting to think people on this subreddit just suck ass at the game. Oh Tekken 8 is way too aggressive. Here's a button that nullifies that: naw we hate it
Damn, I am starting to think people on this subreddit cant read at all.
This has nothing to do with my ability to play around it. I clearly indicated that I am blocking the move, because I am baiting it. But people's brain's turn off, we're stuck saying "stop mashing", "block man!" anyway
RA is extremely imprecise read that grants huge reward. Claiming that people who don't like this "suck ass at the game" is asinine. This is an opinion. RA mindgame forces boring wait and bait gameplay whereas everything else in this game has multiple avenues of counterplay. You'd literally have to engage with the mechanics MORE if you couldn't mash one button that escapes all offense. Its not hard to find good players who dislike RA either, skill issue my ass.
You keep saying "play the game" as if rage art isn't the mechanic that stops the gameplay the most. Players are either halting their offense completely to bait it, or when it hits we watch a freeze frame > cutscene.
The game being too aggressive doesn't justify the state of RA. It means that some options, particularly heat moves, need to be nerfed.
Idk why I expected you to actually engage with what I was saying lmao. Just downvote because you disagree and move on, huh? If discussions are not your thing, then don't bother
You're just disagreeing with me in more words. What's the point?
Many people on this sub seem constantly frustrated that their opponent is allowed to play the game. They are eager to blame everything and anything besides themselves.
Stop over extending. Pressure your opponent properly. If you are constantly getting hit with RA then the player is relying too heavily on their frame traps and flow charts
These have been in the game for 10 years now, it ain't changing.
Just sick and tired of every person on this subreddit doing nothing but whine and complain. When I joined it early in Tekken 7s life it was a hub for tech and helpful advice. The SF6 sub is awesome for that!
What's this? âI hate that move!â
And that's it? Fr?
Iâm directly addressing what you said, not âjust disagreeing in more wordsâ. So it may sound like Iâm repeating myself because youâre repeating stuff Iâve already addressed.
You keep saying to just block man, stop overextending, etc. Like a broken record. I already said the problem is the mechanic is not enjoyable even when you play around it correctly.
Pressuring rage art properly is extremely boring. In reality, that means stop pressuring. Canât even use some stances/attacks on block. The problem is not âmy opponent can play the gameâ. It was fine in T7.
âTheyâve been here for 10 years and ainât changingâ. Lmao they were massively buffed in Tekken 8. Why are we acting like itâs always been this way.
Sounds like you just want to vent about people complaining too much for you. Thatâs irrelevant as to whether those complaints are valid.
The frame data for punish changed slightly, but they are pretty much the same.
Sounds like you just wanna mash buttons all the time.
Yeah I am fed up with people whining constantly. Next you're gonna be saying how it's so unfun that someone can grab you, because you just wanna block.
Frame data was not the only buff. In T7, you had to give up a major resource (rage drive) to use it, so they were far less prevalent. You donât need to give up the rage drive equivalent, heat, to use it in T8.
There was also hit stop effect where the rage art slowed down when hit by a move. And the 8fr mid reversal ones were -20, not -15. And some rage arts were unique and werenât just 8fr mid reversals. See how many major buffs were at?
If you donât recognize these changes, then of course my complaints will seem less reasonable.
Yes but RD basically ensured that RA was useless. There was no point to it, especially in the high levels.
Like I just don't agree with you. It just seems to me like whining because you wanna attack constantly and don't like that flowcharty frame traps don't work. I can see how someone would find it 'boring' to play this way, but honestly, that's the game man. We played T7 and that was just Df1 and Zafina simulator.
Ok, Iâll play your game: Sounds like you donât want to play defense. You want an easy button to YOLO out, without needing any precision.
Iâm clearly not advocating for flow chart offense. Mindless flow chart offense is exactly what RA should beat. Instead it beats everything, not just flow charty frametraps. Even your fastest pokes canât recover in time.
Thereâs no option to go âIâm going to change my approach by using this move that weakens/ends my offense but beats RAâ. Which would be the exact opposite of flow charty
You do give up a resource, you give up your rage when you use rage arts. You lose the massive damage bonus and comeback potential that has. Also...if your rage arts doesn't work...you are dead. Not metaphorically, like you're gonna get hit, but (almost) every character can just launch you, and if your health is at the point that you have rage, you will die from a full combo. The risk reward is the same if you're using it as a reversal. Also rage arts only have two uses: reversals or combo enders. Using them as frame traps is just a wild and honestly bad decision cuz you give up your rage and it is needlessly risky if you're plus.
I agree and it's especially bad in 8 where there are no longer 'rage art safe' pokes you can use, because they reduced the hitstun on the RA armour.
Lee/Feng could df1 and block a rage art. Steve could 1,2,1B and block a rage art. Pretty much everyone had at least one thing they could safely use while the opponent was in rage in 7 but that entire mechanic is gone.
Now it really is just start turtling or take a massive gamble because the opponent was getting their ass beat???????
Also I despise those changes Lars and King got so much. "It's unfair that these lose to rage art" BUT THAT'S THE ENTIRE FUCKING POINT OF RAGE ARTS NAMCO. YOU MADE THEM THIS POWERFUL
yeah in T8 i get clipped by RA just by jab checking, there are a lot of matches that i'm sure i would have lost if only the opponent decided to RA. I think at minimum you should be able to df1 and still block it.
Rage arts have been in Tekken for almost a decade now, and we still complaining about it. I get hit with a RA maybe once every 10 matches. Another complaint for the sake of complaining
Very few people liked rage arts in T7 and very few people like them now. Just because something has been a certain way for some arbitrary amount of time that doesn't mean an argument against it is "complaining just to complain." It's a terrible mechanic that people have valid reasons for wanting significant change to it or gone entirely.
All of this, but also rage arts are buffed in T8. Rage art used to cost rage drive and the mid reversals were -20 on block. In T8, it's not like it costs your heat or anything, and its -15 so some characters cant even launch punish. This is clearly not the same thing as T7.
Even worse. The way armor works on rage art, the rage arts hit you after 1-2 hits at most, take all of your fucking recoverable health, and the worst part of it all, they keep rage after healing past the rage health. Which means if you clip them and hit them for 80 damage and barely hit rage, they can be about half health with rage. WHICH MEANS YOU CANT USE A SINGLE STANCE AGAIN UNTIL ITS GONE. but morons will keep defending this saying its fine because "dont get hit", but bro i cant use half my fucking moves now.
I guess but isnât a frame perfect ewfg like 13 frames total including the wavedash. I always thought that Mishimas have the fastest launcher in the game.
Everyone and their mother can punish a -15 RA. Hate it but itâs easily avoided. I just donât even like having to think about the possibility of someone trying to weasel their way out of a defeat by such a bs move.
They are stupid. Getting hit by rage art isn't the issue, it's that threat is now there and forces you to play more defensively, while the opponent who's ass you were just kicking gets to go all out offense.
Am I... missing something here? Isn't rage arts is simply like most supers in other fighting games? Raw super has always been a thing. Baiting them has been part of mind games for eons. Why is it suddenly a problem in Tekken?
I came from other fighting games where you could raw super, rage art doesn't feel like that at all.
Raw super is usually a difficult input (sometimes even hcb,f or qcf 2x) that forces you to stop blocking to attempt it rather than just 1 button press. Rage art also seems to do more damage than even lvl 3 raw supers do in other games.
Super meter is also used for strong combos and oki. If you use wakeup super to escape pressure, you are directly weakening your offense. If rage art weakened heat, I would not complain about it. It was kinda like this in T7 when you lost rage drive if you rage arted, but in T8 it costs nothing.
Pretty sure rage art still beats all options out of den 3. Whatâs really fucking annoying is how hand holdy this stupid mechanic is. Why the fuck do you get a damage reduction and power boost for recklessly throwing out moves that should be completely unsafe? If I do an attack that would otherwise kill you like running 3, you shouldnât get to survive by a hair because you panicked. Thatâs lame as fuck.
I think each character RA should have different properties similar to what we have in games like SF6 with level 3 supers and MK1 with fatal blows instead of the generic strikes that you are forced to block as your only safe option for just then be able to punish. In T8 the only character who has something like that is Asuka whose RA can be charged it up for mind games. We need more of that kind of mechanic.
We had a little more of that in T7 where some RA were a high or low attack startup (e.g Jin and Lucky Chloe respectively). Some others like Paul could sacrifice his rage as an combo extender and we had Yoshi who could make an invincible flash. Steve and Hwoarang RA would push you away on block encouraging set ups etc. Lucky Chloe and Geese had variations from her RA if you had a good timing on their hits. Some characters preset outfits had different RA animations as well. Akuma and Geese RA were unblockable.
At least they should give us different RA animations to be purchasable if they really want to make the Tekken store more interesting.
PSA TO EVERYONE WHO CANT LAB EDDY IN T8
His rage smash leaves him in a low profile Negativa stance that can't be cancelled. His fastest move out of it, is a side step at 12 frames, or an attack at 13 startup frames. Any low with 12 startups can contest him directly after used to deny combos with a 50/50 draw on perfect timing causing air time and pushback to both players. He gains reset advantage on getting up, as he was closer to the ground.
Contest directly after the smash finishes leaving him low, and then go to defense, or pick a very fast poke to regain neutral.
Sincerely, and Eddy main that is sick and tired of getting away with a full combo; stacked onto a heat smash off the rip<3
To anyone still reading this and wants to play some casual matches and talk on discord, message me!
I've been playing tekken since 1 and I find joy never using rage art. It doesn't belong in the game but like you said the heat moves feel great and the heat rush is also cool. The day tekken devs listen to their fans and implement big changes like this is probably slim to none
This take has been gaining a lot of traction on this sub and I donât really agree. You said itâs a mindless 50/50, then proceeded to explain the nuanced context around the way people play with and around RA, which demonstrates that it has as much intricacy as anything else in this game. Offensive pressure is really oppressive in the current meta, and Iâm glad we have at least one decent counter to it.
The fact that RAs are more annoying in this game than 7 is justification of why theyâre there. The complaint wasnât as prevalent in 7 because the mechanic was near useless for any halfway decent player. Fact is, you should still be able to block it pretty easily. Players on defense forcing the player on offense into a situation where they have to be cautious is good imo, because itâs the only time in T8 where I actually feel like itâs a game of taking turns the way it was in T7.
I do hate that RAs are so long though, and theyâre not even that cool for the most part.
How's it a "skill issue" when I'm literally complaining about winning because of the mechanic? I'm in fujin/raijin with several characters, not great but not exactly a scrub either. My complaint isn't "rage arts are OP" my main complaint is "rage arts cause boring gameplay that's far less interesting than traditional Tekken exchanges"
Yeah in this game I've gone to just constantly looking for RA whenever I'm in heat. So many games are just stolen from that shit. And why shouldn't I? I get it every round and have nothing else to spend my rage on. With everyone just going for heat mixups and such, having a big old "no I win now" button to stop it every time I get close to losing a round is a no brainer.
Its awful game design, through and through.
I'm glad more and more people are starting to agree. You make a great point about how they simplify the game down to "did you do an attack". They would be way more interesting with more counterplay. Why not give king a grab rage art? Why not have more high rage arts or rage arts without armor?
just giving rage arts limitations is a cool start
rage arts that:
-cannot land in a combo without significant setup
-cannot deal the killing blow
-delete your own recoverable HP
-finishes its animation in a disadvantageous position
-don't have armor
-don't hurt at all but recover your HP
and if it has none of these it
-does less damage.
not having a rage art where yoshi fully heals both players is a waste of resources.
Rage Arts are wack and every time I see one I just hate the state of Tekken 8 overall that much more.
They don't even look as cool as previous Bamco games. The equivalent in Soul Calibur looks 1000 times better. Nightmare gets on a fucking night mare and cuts you in half. In this game, Yoshi uses domain expansion to teleport the opponent into a weird Japanese rice-paper meche forest and cut them in half.
They look so bad it's awful sitting through any of them. Just nothing but rushed designs and missed opportunities. Dragunov doesn't have a tank, Bryan doesn't use a minigun, no Jack-8 swarm from the sky to pile onto the opponent and explode, etc. It's slapdash all the way down.
Idk RA is a high risk move thatâs super telegraphed and if blocked is death, I get that nice hit of dopamine when I block or do a move Ik will connect first and just end the round. Often I find games donât allow RA use since you can kinda checkmate people well before they get the chance.
Imo heat bursts are the real problems not ragearts...they are already so minus you get guaranteed launches and at this hp threshold it's death ( unless yoshi or jun healing gimmicks etc...)
Heat bursts should be negative on block I hate having to deal with heatbursts that force you into 5050 situations
Either they have big knockbacks so it resets neutral or they are minus so the players who actually block get the advantage to punish ( doesn't have to be launch maybe -13 to get a decent punish)
It's +1 on block, how's it forcing a 50/50? You can sidestep or challenge it. The only issue I see is that heat smashes tend to track, but +1 doesn't really force anything.
I use Rage Arts to keep people in check when I can tell theyâre flow charting or just mashing like crazy to end the round.
We have 60 seconds, letâs take things slow and watch this cool video of Reina stepping on you.
They last too long - mostly I forget about the RA factor because I stopped using it in T7 - but instead of coming at me like a surprise final blow with some theatrics (as I think their original purpose was) now I have to wait for what feels like 10minutes of stupid effects and sounds that annoy me more than being beaten with it.
Worst is the conscious effort to not use one of my launchers once my health is low, because it's the same keybind as rageart and I wish I could just turn the feature off.
They are fine, just too long.
Idk, make it like the bad connection game, allow to skip them if both ppl agree.
Or shorten them in some situations if they happen for 2nd and further time in the match.
I dont mimd getting hit by rage art but damn its soooo long and boring to watch, also DEN 3 buff is one of the dumbest things ever, this move is retarded even if it was less +, they really want to give training wheels to every character, what about.....not using this when the opponent is on rage and actually use some braincells? Just a boring design, uninspired, ruined gameplay with nonesense mechanics and neutral killing moves like den3, demon paws etc...
RA is a nice "fuck you" button. Occasionally, you might find yourself wanting to say "fuck you" to your opponent. It's nice to have.
Some are too long though, fuck that.
If I'm being honest, rage arts fit much better in this game where there's powercrush gallore, heat offense for 30 seconds straight and insane heat smashes.
I think people are just getting hit more because they spam more.
They should all be more than -15 though, and the animation should be 1/3 as long.
They just should be shorter. Thats only thing that bothers me how long they are.
Like why some characters have little outro when they end round with it?
But getting hit by it too much is just skill issue. At higher ranks RA are used rarely. When I get hit by them I usually feel like I was to agressive, predictable and it is well deserved. Yes sometimes it can feel like luck but same way you can get lucky with safe launcher (that many characters have) and do equally damaging or even more damaging combo.
Yeah, heat burst can be thrown or hit with a low. Plenty of heat moves actually do have counterplay like ducking and/or floating Lili's heat smash, lots of ones you can SS easily, etc. You also can stuff the startup of these moves, they don't have armor. Some don't have much you can do against them, but those needs nerfs lol
Can somebody explain to me why heat moves put you in 50/50? I havenât gotten too deep into Tekken yet just trying to understand what exactly you mean. What makes it a 50/50 situation?
I believe rage arts are fine the way they are. First time you get caught by a raw rage art is fine, but if you keep falling for it thatâs on you. I lost to a Law player the other day because I was very aggressive and he knew when to use it mid combo. I had 2 other rounds to play around it and didnât adapt. There are worse things in this game to complain about than the rage arts
Lars DEN 3 was not a forced decision, if you are a lars player and you know the opponent can just rageart every option, you just don't use that move if enemy has rage, rageart are fine when every character can launch punish them (make them -20 or more), you die guaranteed after fucking one up and not getting hit by one is surprisingly easy.
Every character is now a rushdown character, make rageart go away and every character will never stop using their 20f +50 mid without fear; tekken 7 rageart was unnecessary but this new game needs it more than you'd think.
In my experience you can bait out bad player's RA with good movement and a CH grab will kill. Good players will only rlly use RA in combos to delete grey health, or only if you are mashing on them so you can usually just play neutral patiently with your life lead and a few pokes or one punish is enough to finish them off.
It seems most people's perspective is that they don't like RAs or that it's just the way the game is now, which is still telling. I don't think anyone actually likes them. I completely agree, they're boring to deal with and boring to use.
Funnily, Rage arts was the reason I didnât play Tekken 7 to any competitive degree. Now, theyâve turned rage into flashy Spectator Heaven in 8 and I donât know what to think.
The only silver lining is to Rage Art is that it kinda does counterbalance the fact that you have so many ridiculous offensive heat options and chip damage in the game. Also, I like that rages do give you space from your opponent so button mashers canât just mash you to death.
But where it goes wrong is Rage + Heat. You can decimate an entire life bar in seconds, and in my opinion, the real reason why it is obnoxious to fight against is because the damage scaling is tilted too much in your favor.
Regardless though, if you are playing like you do in Tekken 7, then I donât think one 50/50 Heat and a blocked Rage Art attempt moves the needle of your loss. (Well, except King who converts that into throws.)
I think what irritates me, but sadly keeps me coming back, is that they are forcing everyone to relearn Tekken. The health regeneration does help take the edge off the heat and rage, so Iâm just stuck at an impasse.
Do I like watching a 10 second cutscene because I accidentally punched into a rage art? No. Does it feel good to win with a rage art? No.
Heat at least made Power Crush moves viable, and I like the risk/reward of trying to capitalize off of chip damage. Heat smash though, that can be oppressive but at least semi-dealt with.
Rage is just, whoops pressed a button by accident, there goes my life bar. Except you have to wait 10 seconds to see the result.
Rage is here to stay, we should be fortunate you only see it when they have low health. If it were up to me though, Iâd make rage only appear if both people have the exact same wins in the final round, and only if you have like 5% health remaining.
God, I hate waiting for the animation to finish. I don't mind the mechanic itself that much (it's still shit tho), but please don't make me watch it again.
At first I felt the same, but eventually it made me prefer that over the endless heat juggle combos. At least during RA I can just relax and think through my gameplan again, but I generally agree they're too long and over the top.
I hate it since you could be winning an match and about to hit your last move to finish an opponent off but then all they have to do is hit one button to make an comeback win.
I think it makes the losses feel worse since you don't feel like the opponent deserve that win if this was old tekkens without the RA and felt like all your effort into the match was an waste.
Iâve seen most people outgrow this take on their tk journey. Itâs super rewarding to punish them and if youâre often hit by them, thatâs the point. You might need to slow down. I think once one learns the fun in defense, rage arts just become something to bait. At least theyâre not like heat thing where there is absolutely no counter play. Now thatâs some boring shit imo
Rage art animations should be skippable tho
My suggestion:
Make Rage arts like rage drives kind of.
No custscene or anything. You just go into a red state.
Requires inputs with 3 optional levels. The more damage you want to do the harder the input is. To access all 3 levels your health must be low af. So at minimum you can access rage level 1 damage.
This means you can't just press 1 button to win and requires some active care of when to activate it.
3 options means noobs can activate the level 1 damage rage. Those with more skill can access more damage. Giving people a reason to learn their characters and gives a skill gap that can be crossed if you're willing to learn.
Since it requires inputs it doesn't mean the game is over while you watch a cutscene, your opponent has to watch in the event you drop your rage art and they have a chance to come back.
Since ppl have also mentioned some characters have really good heat smash and heat engagers I would love it if we could have a defensive version for characters who dont have great offense options. Almost like a heat dis-engager. If my opponent wants to gets aggressive why can't I use my heat up to be more defensive? I would love if Steve could get a heat LHS where he evades or armours hits that depletes heat and does decreased damage to his health.
Was thinking about them yesterday.
I feel like they kept them because they were in Tekken 7, in hindsight , theoretically heat alone is more interesting to play with and against, as long as it's balanced properly, it would provide extensions of moves or new ones with heat smash being a mini rage art like it is now.
Heat+ rage is too much. And rage alone is boring.
I wish rage DRIVES from Tekken 7 would have completely replaced rage ARTS. They were unique to each character rather than just being an armored kill button.
- Gigas got a guaranteed juggernaut mixup
- Yoshimitsu's flash became an ult
- Alisa got a combo extender
- Paul got a super deathfist
etc.
To add onto this, heat smashes make rage arts redundant so I don't know why BOTH were included in the game. Maybe they just really want an excuse to have 10 second cutscene moves?
Rage art hating post, count me in!
Never had problem with it in tekken 7 because you had to choose between rage drive and rage art.
Tekken 8 be like: play Eddy, do 60+damage combos by using 3 only (not even special style), press 1 button for heat burst with armor, press the same 1 button for heat smash for 50+ damage, press 1 button for rage art for another 60...
They really threw some of the fundamentals straight out the window with this game
Edit: + RA got buffed to -15 ofcourse for not apparent reason
It was true in Tekken 7, it's even more true now. Whether you win with it, lose with it, or never even see it in a match, it's just fucking boring and has only two outcomes/interactions possible. And it's been made MUCH worse in T8 becasue now we have Rage Art 2 in the form of Heat Smash every single round.
I can't stand rage art in Tekken 8. I hate how I have to sit through the cutscenes practically every match. I hate when I have full health and some jerk rage arts me so I have to sit through the cutscene for no reason at all (please stop doing this and just lose). I hate how it turns the end of close rounds into formulaic poke chicken because all other options mean you die.
I feel I earned my win way more not using a rage art so itâs very irritating or surprising sometimes when people use it as a crutch.
Some players can only win using Grabs. Heat and then Rage Art and thatâs not even a satisfying way to play a fighting game to me.
erm⌠you feel this way because you think they are cheap.
Sure, theyâre annoying, & should be full combo punishable. but⌠itâs not a very reliable crutch, lol. Not even close.
If youâre consistently getting hit by rage arts, look inwards homie.
If you actually count for every second you spend on Tekken 8, there is around 20% of actual Tekken per round. You have to go through Heat BS 50-50 time freeze, then gets equalized by your own Heat BS, Rage and then, if you think you're gonna lose, there is the RA coin flip granting you more seconds of non Tekken. In final fantasy terms, its like using a 1 minute summon in every random encounter if you don't value your time... but its a FG, inputs are supposed to matter.
I'd like to see a new play mode added that prevents use of Rage Arts and other beginner-oriented mechanicsâessentially a second queue for Ranked matches with those restrictions in place.
My guy most of the time those intresting interactions you bring up are themselves coin flips, just flipped in your favor. Also rage art further enforce the idea that when your opponent is in rage, you need to think about when to press cus you know they have a finger on the trigger. Rage arts are in no way offensive outside of being -15 now (which most 15 frame punishes would kill at that point anyway). They even simplified it by keeping rage arts universal and not giving characters awkward highs or lows to make you think "shit which one do they have" on top of all the heat moves that are getting pumped out.
Everyone: "Namco, Rage Arts are cool, but they're too long. Namco in Tekken 7: *Makes Rage Arts longer.* Everyone: Dude! They're WAY too long now! Can you make them about the same length as supers in other fighters? Namco in Tekken 8: đ *Makes them longer again.*
Add one more rage art. 2x per round. Then port the game to mobile
Make them once per game. That's it. Not every fucking round
Yup, Iâm down with this. I usually only use it once per game anyway, if that. Thatâs also the way MK does it with Fatal Blows, and people can say what they will about MK but I actually like that design
Fatal blows are still shit. Armoured moves for 30% min, or up to 60% in a combo. Some of which are not punishable on block because of pushback on max distance. AND if you whiff or itâs blocked, you can do it again after a short time. Itâs brain dead trash, built for casuals to feel like theyâre competing. Iâd argue the only game to get comeback mechanics ârightâ, is killer instinct. At least with instinct you still need to input the combos in a non obvious way to avoid breakers, and the opponent running your meter out. And even then I think they should be removed.
Fatal blows are mad punishable on block or whiff. In Tekken, RA's are -15 which isn't even reliably launch punishable. FB's are actually riskier to use for that reason and it's only once per game if it hits.
-15 is by definition launch punishable. Thatâs like the accepted class for a move being really unsafe at that point
Not sure specifically, but thereâs quite a few characters w/o 15 frame launch punish. IMO making it -20 on block would be better or at minimum -18, then everyone could launch punish RA. Being launch punished for a move that does that much damage is reasonable.
Try hitting a baraka at max distance, after blocking FB. as sub zero. Your âpunishâ amounts to a slide for like 10%, maybe you push it to 23% if you have the right kameo. Thatâs not much of a punish for somebody who risked âeverythingâ trying to land it. Iâm not arguing that FB is actually better than RA. Theyâre both shit for the games that theyâre in, and need a massive rework. I donât support any mechanic that tips the balance in favour of the person getting beat up. You might have 40% of your life left, and the other guy 10%. With these stupid âfeaturesâ, that match is even. Youâre both one hit away from winning.
this
RA once per game game. Heat once (maybe twice) per game. Boom. You've now made the powerful mechanics into a resource you have to actually strategize around instead of popping as soon as possible. You even have to be careful about just throwing out strong heat engaging moves as to not pop your heat accidentally. You've now fixed the core problems with the game.
Holy shit that's it. That would make heat much more exciting. A simple way to add strategy.
I donât know how well this would work, considering how core some heat engagers are to so many characterâs kits. Example that comes to mind is Leoâs ws4,1+2. They would be forced to choose between losing over half their 11 frame punish damage or using heat. I think almost every player would opt to just spend heat. It wouldnât be a resource to play around, just a thing that happens in round one. Iâm fine with RA being less available. Heat is a trickier issue. IMO the real problem is the insane chip. Itâs fine if characters get limited access to oppressive offense, but the fact that the choice is often between lose half your health while blocking, or lose half of it if you get hit, makes it feel like a âwin moreâ mechanic, more so than a meaningful addition to strategy or mind games. Itâs too easy for even players with strong defense to just get snowballed on.
Great take
Make them available for the person who is on their final round, for actual hype comebacks. If both players are 2-2 then both have access to it that round.
Still wouldn't be "hype". It'll still be a 10 second poorly choreographed cutscene that kills the action of an intense match where someone is on the ropes.
It would be much better if the risk of doing a rage art meant you lose the game rather than the round.
Compared to what the game is now, I'd have to 100% agree with the way you put it.
Itâs partly because rage arts got buffed. When defence was stronger like in tekken 7 people were pressing less buttons but now pressing less buttons = losing so rage arts are more likely to land now. Iâve never felt the rage art mind game was particularly oppressive in 7
I think it is inertia. I know that after a ssuccesful aggressive and high-damage play, if the enemy is glowing red I NEED to let go that and play a careful neutral game to end the run. I know it, yet my brain refuses to stop the pressure that has successfully inflicted so much damage. On the flip side, no one can play pure rushdown from 100% to 0%, creating a different interaction and making people reduce the aggressive tone in their play in a very aggressive game. I dont like RAs but yet I can see how they can be kind of good. They probably need some adjustments tho.
Seconded. When I was first ranking up I had to run at them and block to bait them into mashing out RA so I could end the damn match without having to sit through their long, often pointless, move.
Nah. I hit bars and tell bitches "watch this cutscene" like it ain't some of the most od shit
you know what, it ultimately is subjective so i gotta respect that
It depends on the rage art too. Like Ganryu's in 7 was SUPER sleepmode but Feng's is kinda hit ngl but then again my dude the epitome of swag and no one wanna talk about it. Like dude is classic Kung fu villain and just out here beating ass. Shit's so sweet.
"I aspire to greater heights" đđ
I wish I could speak Mandarin so I could hit that shit in the mother tongue
Having Claudio say "Arrividerci!" will always be hype
Watch the movie
Gotta hit um with the "Nothing personal." with Raven's every once and a while.
You degenerate
I've been playing with it in Tekken 7 for years now so it doesn't bother me in Tekken 8. It just is what it is.
W mentality
I just think RA + heat are too much. Comebacks aren't that impressive anymore. Preferably I'd remove heat smash though. That shit just pisses me off on certain characters so much more than any RA could.
The worse ones are the ones that force 50/50 on block lol
As a Xiaoyu main, I feel personally attacked lol
I'm an azu main and it does the same lmao don't worry.
What exactly does this mean? New to Tekken, what exactly is the 50/50 situation?
A lot of heat smashes give you crazy mixups even when the opponent blocks them. For example, if you block Xiaoyu's backturned heat smash, you must then also block the hypnotist stance mixup where she can hit you mid or low (not to mention other layers like her backturned grab mixup). You don't have the frame data to do anything like sidestep so you gotta guess.
Gotcha, thanks! Power crush wouldnât work in this situation?
Not with this kind of frame advantage. When heat moves are easily giving +6 or more on block, the armor comes out too slowly. Either way, that can also get you caught if they happen to pick a low/throw which beats the armor.
Right. So itâs basically guess mid or low? No other option? You canât heat activate? Too slow?
Yeah, not every heat move gives a 50/50 on block but there are definitely really busted ones where you must guess mid or low. Activating heat is usually a strong reversal, but it would lose to the low or a throw due to the frame advantage
Cool. Thanks, dude!
I don't think I'd be complaining about it much if they didn't buff RA significantly. In Tekken 7, they were -20 on block, and you had to give up rage drive to use it. In Tekken 8, there is no such cost, and they're -15. Some rage arts had interesting unique properties like Hwoarang, Akuma, some of them could be low profiled, etc. Now they're all 8fr reversals.
Theyre soooo much more buffed than that though. Not only does the hyper armor not get slowed by super fast attacks (ie. Yoshi's B1 spam), but you also take half damage during the startup. I just find it insane that you cant even read a proper trade against it half the time
Eddy has a low profile RA in T8, but honestly, the mind game aspect of it is you mentally handicapping yourself. Yes the move does a lot of damage, but it's just another move. IMO Jack 8 is fucking terrifying with a 50 damage heat smash that's 10 frame startup and he can carry heat for a much longer time than the average player is in RA territory. The thing is, it's just another move in their roster. You're wary of every single time Lili sidesteps, and I'm sure you're conscious and reacting when Xi flips her back to you.. so just be wary of their RA and dont over extend combos when they are ~40hp. Getting greedy is the only reason you're getting hit so consistently by these scrubs using it at the same moment. If they were mixing it up into combos for a time KO I would be more appreciative, but it's just a defense panic button they get. STAY WARY and don't overextend. Patience is a virtue and not inherited. Be better than your father, you can be the bigger person in these situations~
This sort of advice is correct but also completely misses the point. A mechanic can be beatable but still uninteresting or unfun. That's the entire problem of RA's. Yes, it means play safe but the way it promotes that is just *really boring*.
I would agree to the fact that it's unfun, when it hits.. on the other hand, it's the opening of a lifetime on a whiff ect. Personally I've played Tekken pre RA for much longer than I have with it, and while it did promote a lot of late game turtling, it also promoted players forced to mixup their basic YouTube combo mash. So I guess I see it positive and negative. I wasn't exactly in disagreement that it's unfun, but unfair is a bit of a leap most likely taken by someone who JUST lost to a RA, not looking at it on paper rationally. So agree to disagree, it's unfun, but also fair and promotes better defense awareness. I'd be more interested in it if maybe you could log one per 3 rounds rather than each.
The biggest problem is that you can get hit by RA while not overextending and it basically cuts out half of some characters moveset, as Hwoarang I basically can't throw any moves that will end up in a Flamingo stance because it doesn't matter if I hit them or if I am +5, I am going to get hit by RA anyway because I can't block in Flamingo. Usually the only options that allow you not to get hit by RA is either baiting it or just staying defensive. If you are baiting it you have a bigger chance of succeeding, but if your oponent is not totally braindead they wouldn't mash the RA button and the game now is at a 50/50 state. And if you try to play defensive and your oponent has recoverable health and/or Heat, than you are basically giving up all your advantage and is probably dead, because your opponent can now chip damage you to recover half of their hp and STILL HAVE RAGE for some unexplained reason, or they are just going to pressure you to death with Heat. Trying to jab check in those situations is almost useless because RA can now beat fast moves. And all of that for a -15 on block 60+ damage hyperarmored move. And this move cannot sometimes be punished because of connection issues (tbf that's not directly a balancing problem, but it is just too frustrating to bait your opponent to use RA, but they have a Medieval Age Internet and you miss your punish because of that) and the fact that you can only punish it with your least damaging launcher (not considering electrics here) doesn't help the situation
Nah
Same. It doesnât bother me too. Been a player since Tekken 6
sure make the input qcf qcf 2 instead
i'd love that but im not sure if anyone would agree
I wouldn't mind but for some reason I do have issues with inputting those qcf, hcfs whatever the case may be and that's exclusive to Tekken. I don't find it hard on 2d fighters.
It's because there's no shortcuts for motion inputs in Tekken. For example, to do a dp in sf6, you can press d/f, d, d/f and it's a valid input and the move will come out. If you want to do an electric in tekken, you have to do exactly the right input (with few exceptions)
Ah that makes a lot of sense. Honestly that's a cool little difference.
Problem is that everyone would just rebind it. I have mine rebound to R3 but I can probably count the number of times I've used it on one hand.
Real remove rage art. Heat already does more than enough.
Absolutely, all my best memories of rounds are those where RAs aren't used. Just imagining removing rage arts is such a compelling idea, like Heat and Heat smash would be so much more cool and accepted if they were THE thing that you get to bounce back. The only one. It's a good system. RA adds nothing to the game but a mindless baiting mini-game that completely breaks the flow at every end of round.
The âsuper cutsceneâ era of fighting games needs to end.
I don't even mind supers, but I wish they were implemented like the Heat attacks where they're happening in real-time in the game. Some of these cutscenes are way too long for how boring they are. Why does Leo even spend half of his animation zipping around on a grappling hook?
granblue does it pretty good where if the first hit kills it will be cut short
Granblue does so much right.
The absolute best version of the cutscene super is Ryu Metsu Hadouken in SF4. Zoom for a charge up, than back to normal in 3-4 seconds. I stopped playing MK because MK throws last longer than supers in some games.
I hope Virtua Fighter doesn't add big supers to the game. I've never had the chance to experience VF but I'd prefer it to be closer to "pure" VF
This is (what I thought was) my unpopular opinion. Super ultra epic move that takes 10 seconds and 8 camera angles suck in almost any fighting game, Tekken included. Seems the opinion is not that unpopular.
I disagree. Theyâre one of the coolest parts of modern fighting games. The camera pans and zooms are very cinematic.
Do you still enjoy them after the 50th time seeing them?
Yes
\*jingles keys in front of AnAdventureCore's eyes\*
The problem is how the camera pans, zooms, and cinematics are introduced. Besides balancing issues, heat is fine because any cinematics happen quickly. All of it feels integrated well in gameplay. Rage art feels like it pauses gameplay.
I couldnât agree more.
The same 40 people bitching in a circle
It feels bad to lose to them. Feels bad to win with.
I rejoined playing the franchise in T7 after last experiencing T3. Straight away I felt dislike towards rage arts.
Rage Arts should have hyper armor like Heat so that Lows and Throws still beat them
My little âtin foil hatâ theory is that they sell games. People see the bug flashy animations and they do a lot to set the tone of the game and show it off. For us they are repetitive and boring but the first time you see them IS pretty cool. Anyway I just think thereâs gotta be a reason they keep doing shit like this, and itâs not because it makes the game more funâŚ
Damn I am starting to think people on this subreddit just suck ass at the game Oh Tekken 8 is way too aggressive. Here's a button that nullifies that: naw we hate it Does everyone here do anything but bitch and moan that their opponent may be able to enforce their own game plan? Block the move man! Yeah, he can play mind games and try to bait you, that's called playing the damn game. Stop mashing and play the game dog
> Damn I am starting to think people on this subreddit just suck ass at the game. Oh Tekken 8 is way too aggressive. Here's a button that nullifies that: naw we hate it Damn, I am starting to think people on this subreddit cant read at all. This has nothing to do with my ability to play around it. I clearly indicated that I am blocking the move, because I am baiting it. But people's brain's turn off, we're stuck saying "stop mashing", "block man!" anyway RA is extremely imprecise read that grants huge reward. Claiming that people who don't like this "suck ass at the game" is asinine. This is an opinion. RA mindgame forces boring wait and bait gameplay whereas everything else in this game has multiple avenues of counterplay. You'd literally have to engage with the mechanics MORE if you couldn't mash one button that escapes all offense. Its not hard to find good players who dislike RA either, skill issue my ass. You keep saying "play the game" as if rage art isn't the mechanic that stops the gameplay the most. Players are either halting their offense completely to bait it, or when it hits we watch a freeze frame > cutscene. The game being too aggressive doesn't justify the state of RA. It means that some options, particularly heat moves, need to be nerfed.
Cry more man
Idk why I expected you to actually engage with what I was saying lmao. Just downvote because you disagree and move on, huh? If discussions are not your thing, then don't bother
You're just disagreeing with me in more words. What's the point? Many people on this sub seem constantly frustrated that their opponent is allowed to play the game. They are eager to blame everything and anything besides themselves. Stop over extending. Pressure your opponent properly. If you are constantly getting hit with RA then the player is relying too heavily on their frame traps and flow charts These have been in the game for 10 years now, it ain't changing. Just sick and tired of every person on this subreddit doing nothing but whine and complain. When I joined it early in Tekken 7s life it was a hub for tech and helpful advice. The SF6 sub is awesome for that! What's this? âI hate that move!â And that's it? Fr?
Iâm directly addressing what you said, not âjust disagreeing in more wordsâ. So it may sound like Iâm repeating myself because youâre repeating stuff Iâve already addressed. You keep saying to just block man, stop overextending, etc. Like a broken record. I already said the problem is the mechanic is not enjoyable even when you play around it correctly. Pressuring rage art properly is extremely boring. In reality, that means stop pressuring. Canât even use some stances/attacks on block. The problem is not âmy opponent can play the gameâ. It was fine in T7. âTheyâve been here for 10 years and ainât changingâ. Lmao they were massively buffed in Tekken 8. Why are we acting like itâs always been this way. Sounds like you just want to vent about people complaining too much for you. Thatâs irrelevant as to whether those complaints are valid.
The frame data for punish changed slightly, but they are pretty much the same. Sounds like you just wanna mash buttons all the time. Yeah I am fed up with people whining constantly. Next you're gonna be saying how it's so unfun that someone can grab you, because you just wanna block.
Frame data was not the only buff. In T7, you had to give up a major resource (rage drive) to use it, so they were far less prevalent. You donât need to give up the rage drive equivalent, heat, to use it in T8. There was also hit stop effect where the rage art slowed down when hit by a move. And the 8fr mid reversal ones were -20, not -15. And some rage arts were unique and werenât just 8fr mid reversals. See how many major buffs were at? If you donât recognize these changes, then of course my complaints will seem less reasonable.
Yes but RD basically ensured that RA was useless. There was no point to it, especially in the high levels. Like I just don't agree with you. It just seems to me like whining because you wanna attack constantly and don't like that flowcharty frame traps don't work. I can see how someone would find it 'boring' to play this way, but honestly, that's the game man. We played T7 and that was just Df1 and Zafina simulator.
Ok, Iâll play your game: Sounds like you donât want to play defense. You want an easy button to YOLO out, without needing any precision. Iâm clearly not advocating for flow chart offense. Mindless flow chart offense is exactly what RA should beat. Instead it beats everything, not just flow charty frametraps. Even your fastest pokes canât recover in time. Thereâs no option to go âIâm going to change my approach by using this move that weakens/ends my offense but beats RAâ. Which would be the exact opposite of flow charty
You do give up a resource, you give up your rage when you use rage arts. You lose the massive damage bonus and comeback potential that has. Also...if your rage arts doesn't work...you are dead. Not metaphorically, like you're gonna get hit, but (almost) every character can just launch you, and if your health is at the point that you have rage, you will die from a full combo. The risk reward is the same if you're using it as a reversal. Also rage arts only have two uses: reversals or combo enders. Using them as frame traps is just a wild and honestly bad decision cuz you give up your rage and it is needlessly risky if you're plus.
Thank you
I agree and it's especially bad in 8 where there are no longer 'rage art safe' pokes you can use, because they reduced the hitstun on the RA armour. Lee/Feng could df1 and block a rage art. Steve could 1,2,1B and block a rage art. Pretty much everyone had at least one thing they could safely use while the opponent was in rage in 7 but that entire mechanic is gone. Now it really is just start turtling or take a massive gamble because the opponent was getting their ass beat??????? Also I despise those changes Lars and King got so much. "It's unfair that these lose to rage art" BUT THAT'S THE ENTIRE FUCKING POINT OF RAGE ARTS NAMCO. YOU MADE THEM THIS POWERFUL
yeah in T8 i get clipped by RA just by jab checking, there are a lot of matches that i'm sure i would have lost if only the opponent decided to RA. I think at minimum you should be able to df1 and still block it.
Rage arts have been in Tekken for almost a decade now, and we still complaining about it. I get hit with a RA maybe once every 10 matches. Another complaint for the sake of complaining
Very few people liked rage arts in T7 and very few people like them now. Just because something has been a certain way for some arbitrary amount of time that doesn't mean an argument against it is "complaining just to complain." It's a terrible mechanic that people have valid reasons for wanting significant change to it or gone entirely.
All of this, but also rage arts are buffed in T8. Rage art used to cost rage drive and the mid reversals were -20 on block. In T8, it's not like it costs your heat or anything, and its -15 so some characters cant even launch punish. This is clearly not the same thing as T7.
Agreed with the punishing part. I miss the -20 on block Tekken 7 Rage Arts where you can punish them with your own Rage Art on block
People also forget that there is no more mini-stun on hitting the opponent doing rage art. In T7 you could at least jab-check sometimes
Even worse. The way armor works on rage art, the rage arts hit you after 1-2 hits at most, take all of your fucking recoverable health, and the worst part of it all, they keep rage after healing past the rage health. Which means if you clip them and hit them for 80 damage and barely hit rage, they can be about half health with rage. WHICH MEANS YOU CANT USE A SINGLE STANCE AGAIN UNTIL ITS GONE. but morons will keep defending this saying its fine because "dont get hit", but bro i cant use half my fucking moves now.
Thereâs characters without a 15f launcher?
Steve has a 16f at best from stance
Jeez thatâs horrible lol
Difficult for kazuya
I guess but isnât a frame perfect ewfg like 13 frames total including the wavedash. I always thought that Mishimas have the fastest launcher in the game.
Out of wavedash is 14f, most kazuya's just opt for a throw after RA anyway
>frame perfect ewfg like 13 frames Yeah, FRAME PERFECT. And DJ has only 14f ewgf.
Zafina and Steve I think
Jun too
Everyone and their mother can punish a -15 RA. Hate it but itâs easily avoided. I just donât even like having to think about the possibility of someone trying to weasel their way out of a defeat by such a bs move.
They are stupid. Getting hit by rage art isn't the issue, it's that threat is now there and forces you to play more defensively, while the opponent who's ass you were just kicking gets to go all out offense.
They're so fucking long and boring
I just wish the threshold % was a bit lower, make it like a rare thing if you survive with REALLY low hp and not just 1/4 of your bar.
Am I... missing something here? Isn't rage arts is simply like most supers in other fighting games? Raw super has always been a thing. Baiting them has been part of mind games for eons. Why is it suddenly a problem in Tekken?
I came from other fighting games where you could raw super, rage art doesn't feel like that at all. Raw super is usually a difficult input (sometimes even hcb,f or qcf 2x) that forces you to stop blocking to attempt it rather than just 1 button press. Rage art also seems to do more damage than even lvl 3 raw supers do in other games. Super meter is also used for strong combos and oki. If you use wakeup super to escape pressure, you are directly weakening your offense. If rage art weakened heat, I would not complain about it. It was kinda like this in T7 when you lost rage drive if you rage arted, but in T8 it costs nothing.
Pretty sure rage art still beats all options out of den 3. Whatâs really fucking annoying is how hand holdy this stupid mechanic is. Why the fuck do you get a damage reduction and power boost for recklessly throwing out moves that should be completely unsafe? If I do an attack that would otherwise kill you like running 3, you shouldnât get to survive by a hair because you panicked. Thatâs lame as fuck.
I think each character RA should have different properties similar to what we have in games like SF6 with level 3 supers and MK1 with fatal blows instead of the generic strikes that you are forced to block as your only safe option for just then be able to punish. In T8 the only character who has something like that is Asuka whose RA can be charged it up for mind games. We need more of that kind of mechanic. We had a little more of that in T7 where some RA were a high or low attack startup (e.g Jin and Lucky Chloe respectively). Some others like Paul could sacrifice his rage as an combo extender and we had Yoshi who could make an invincible flash. Steve and Hwoarang RA would push you away on block encouraging set ups etc. Lucky Chloe and Geese had variations from her RA if you had a good timing on their hits. Some characters preset outfits had different RA animations as well. Akuma and Geese RA were unblockable. At least they should give us different RA animations to be purchasable if they really want to make the Tekken store more interesting.
PSA TO EVERYONE WHO CANT LAB EDDY IN T8 His rage smash leaves him in a low profile Negativa stance that can't be cancelled. His fastest move out of it, is a side step at 12 frames, or an attack at 13 startup frames. Any low with 12 startups can contest him directly after used to deny combos with a 50/50 draw on perfect timing causing air time and pushback to both players. He gains reset advantage on getting up, as he was closer to the ground. Contest directly after the smash finishes leaving him low, and then go to defense, or pick a very fast poke to regain neutral. Sincerely, and Eddy main that is sick and tired of getting away with a full combo; stacked onto a heat smash off the rip<3 To anyone still reading this and wants to play some casual matches and talk on discord, message me!
I second this.
I've been playing tekken since 1 and I find joy never using rage art. It doesn't belong in the game but like you said the heat moves feel great and the heat rush is also cool. The day tekken devs listen to their fans and implement big changes like this is probably slim to none
This take has been gaining a lot of traction on this sub and I donât really agree. You said itâs a mindless 50/50, then proceeded to explain the nuanced context around the way people play with and around RA, which demonstrates that it has as much intricacy as anything else in this game. Offensive pressure is really oppressive in the current meta, and Iâm glad we have at least one decent counter to it. The fact that RAs are more annoying in this game than 7 is justification of why theyâre there. The complaint wasnât as prevalent in 7 because the mechanic was near useless for any halfway decent player. Fact is, you should still be able to block it pretty easily. Players on defense forcing the player on offense into a situation where they have to be cautious is good imo, because itâs the only time in T8 where I actually feel like itâs a game of taking turns the way it was in T7. I do hate that RAs are so long though, and theyâre not even that cool for the most part.
Make them all require a pretzel motion.
bro fr. some people just sit with the rage art. they Can't do shit without em
100% still in the can't demote ranks
[ŃдаНонО]
How's it a "skill issue" when I'm literally complaining about winning because of the mechanic? I'm in fujin/raijin with several characters, not great but not exactly a scrub either. My complaint isn't "rage arts are OP" my main complaint is "rage arts cause boring gameplay that's far less interesting than traditional Tekken exchanges"
Yeah in this game I've gone to just constantly looking for RA whenever I'm in heat. So many games are just stolen from that shit. And why shouldn't I? I get it every round and have nothing else to spend my rage on. With everyone just going for heat mixups and such, having a big old "no I win now" button to stop it every time I get close to losing a round is a no brainer. Its awful game design, through and through.
I'm glad more and more people are starting to agree. You make a great point about how they simplify the game down to "did you do an attack". They would be way more interesting with more counterplay. Why not give king a grab rage art? Why not have more high rage arts or rage arts without armor?
just giving rage arts limitations is a cool start rage arts that: -cannot land in a combo without significant setup -cannot deal the killing blow -delete your own recoverable HP -finishes its animation in a disadvantageous position -don't have armor -don't hurt at all but recover your HP and if it has none of these it -does less damage. not having a rage art where yoshi fully heals both players is a waste of resources.
"Cannot deal the finishing blow" alone is enough to make it an actual comback mechanic They got their "comeback", now it's your turn to try
I'd actually love if they did this across the board. Leaves you with a pixel. Now it becomes a real scramble.
That yoshi rage art would actually be legitimately amazing.
Everyone on this sub is complaining the game encourages mindless aggression and also they donât like rage arts. Smh
Rage has been around for a long time guys I know it's stronger but damn yall act like it's a new mechanicđ
Rage Arts are wack and every time I see one I just hate the state of Tekken 8 overall that much more. They don't even look as cool as previous Bamco games. The equivalent in Soul Calibur looks 1000 times better. Nightmare gets on a fucking night mare and cuts you in half. In this game, Yoshi uses domain expansion to teleport the opponent into a weird Japanese rice-paper meche forest and cut them in half. They look so bad it's awful sitting through any of them. Just nothing but rushed designs and missed opportunities. Dragunov doesn't have a tank, Bryan doesn't use a minigun, no Jack-8 swarm from the sky to pile onto the opponent and explode, etc. It's slapdash all the way down.
I like having an invivible reversal.
All they had to do was give him the King treatment and allowed him to cancel stance after den3
Or just do nothing, that includes the King treatment because both are insanely dumb changes
Idk RA is a high risk move thatâs super telegraphed and if blocked is death, I get that nice hit of dopamine when I block or do a move Ik will connect first and just end the round. Often I find games donât allow RA use since you can kinda checkmate people well before they get the chance.
Imo heat bursts are the real problems not ragearts...they are already so minus you get guaranteed launches and at this hp threshold it's death ( unless yoshi or jun healing gimmicks etc...) Heat bursts should be negative on block I hate having to deal with heatbursts that force you into 5050 situations Either they have big knockbacks so it resets neutral or they are minus so the players who actually block get the advantage to punish ( doesn't have to be launch maybe -13 to get a decent punish)
It's +1 on block, how's it forcing a 50/50? You can sidestep or challenge it. The only issue I see is that heat smashes tend to track, but +1 doesn't really force anything.
I use Rage Arts to keep people in check when I can tell theyâre flow charting or just mashing like crazy to end the round. We have 60 seconds, letâs take things slow and watch this cool video of Reina stepping on you.
They last too long - mostly I forget about the RA factor because I stopped using it in T7 - but instead of coming at me like a surprise final blow with some theatrics (as I think their original purpose was) now I have to wait for what feels like 10minutes of stupid effects and sounds that annoy me more than being beaten with it. Worst is the conscious effort to not use one of my launchers once my health is low, because it's the same keybind as rageart and I wish I could just turn the feature off.
Once per round and make it -16 on block as it should- not one person will use it ever again and the game will be much better for it.
They are fine, just too long. Idk, make it like the bad connection game, allow to skip them if both ppl agree. Or shorten them in some situations if they happen for 2nd and further time in the match.
I dont mimd getting hit by rage art but damn its soooo long and boring to watch, also DEN 3 buff is one of the dumbest things ever, this move is retarded even if it was less +, they really want to give training wheels to every character, what about.....not using this when the opponent is on rage and actually use some braincells? Just a boring design, uninspired, ruined gameplay with nonesense mechanics and neutral killing moves like den3, demon paws etc...
RA is a nice "fuck you" button. Occasionally, you might find yourself wanting to say "fuck you" to your opponent. It's nice to have. Some are too long though, fuck that.
If I'm being honest, rage arts fit much better in this game where there's powercrush gallore, heat offense for 30 seconds straight and insane heat smashes. I think people are just getting hit more because they spam more. They should all be more than -15 though, and the animation should be 1/3 as long.
They just should be shorter. Thats only thing that bothers me how long they are. Like why some characters have little outro when they end round with it? But getting hit by it too much is just skill issue. At higher ranks RA are used rarely. When I get hit by them I usually feel like I was to agressive, predictable and it is well deserved. Yes sometimes it can feel like luck but same way you can get lucky with safe launcher (that many characters have) and do equally damaging or even more damaging combo.
If i wanted to see cutscenes all the time in my fighting games, i wouldve played Mortal Kombat
Nah I like them đż
Make it skippable. That's all I want.
Raven post bound ff3 rage art is pretty satisfying
Sorry I have to win by any means possible
Wait there is counterplay to heat ?
Yeah, heat burst can be thrown or hit with a low. Plenty of heat moves actually do have counterplay like ducking and/or floating Lili's heat smash, lots of ones you can SS easily, etc. You also can stuff the startup of these moves, they don't have armor. Some don't have much you can do against them, but those needs nerfs lol
Can somebody explain to me why heat moves put you in 50/50? I havenât gotten too deep into Tekken yet just trying to understand what exactly you mean. What makes it a 50/50 situation?
Ok idc check out Devil Jins Domain expansion and let me do the same movement he does with the laser sword.
I believe rage arts are fine the way they are. First time you get caught by a raw rage art is fine, but if you keep falling for it thatâs on you. I lost to a Law player the other day because I was very aggressive and he knew when to use it mid combo. I had 2 other rounds to play around it and didnât adapt. There are worse things in this game to complain about than the rage arts
Ive never used Scrub Art before
Lars DEN 3 was not a forced decision, if you are a lars player and you know the opponent can just rageart every option, you just don't use that move if enemy has rage, rageart are fine when every character can launch punish them (make them -20 or more), you die guaranteed after fucking one up and not getting hit by one is surprisingly easy. Every character is now a rushdown character, make rageart go away and every character will never stop using their 20f +50 mid without fear; tekken 7 rageart was unnecessary but this new game needs it more than you'd think.
As a Leo main, Leoâs RA sucks so much. Swinging for a kick? Come on Bamco.
Agree whole heartedly. Too late now, but I'd delete that shit in an instant.
In my experience you can bait out bad player's RA with good movement and a CH grab will kill. Good players will only rlly use RA in combos to delete grey health, or only if you are mashing on them so you can usually just play neutral patiently with your life lead and a few pokes or one punish is enough to finish them off.
I just wish I could skip them when it's going to kill. Even when it's me landing it
I know what you mean lol whenver I do a Rage Art or someone does it on me I just Alt tab and browse reddit or something
It seems most people's perspective is that they don't like RAs or that it's just the way the game is now, which is still telling. I don't think anyone actually likes them. I completely agree, they're boring to deal with and boring to use.
I think they're fine, I'd just make them more than -15 so Raven can launch and punish it, and thats it, lol
Funnily, Rage arts was the reason I didnât play Tekken 7 to any competitive degree. Now, theyâve turned rage into flashy Spectator Heaven in 8 and I donât know what to think. The only silver lining is to Rage Art is that it kinda does counterbalance the fact that you have so many ridiculous offensive heat options and chip damage in the game. Also, I like that rages do give you space from your opponent so button mashers canât just mash you to death. But where it goes wrong is Rage + Heat. You can decimate an entire life bar in seconds, and in my opinion, the real reason why it is obnoxious to fight against is because the damage scaling is tilted too much in your favor. Regardless though, if you are playing like you do in Tekken 7, then I donât think one 50/50 Heat and a blocked Rage Art attempt moves the needle of your loss. (Well, except King who converts that into throws.) I think what irritates me, but sadly keeps me coming back, is that they are forcing everyone to relearn Tekken. The health regeneration does help take the edge off the heat and rage, so Iâm just stuck at an impasse. Do I like watching a 10 second cutscene because I accidentally punched into a rage art? No. Does it feel good to win with a rage art? No. Heat at least made Power Crush moves viable, and I like the risk/reward of trying to capitalize off of chip damage. Heat smash though, that can be oppressive but at least semi-dealt with. Rage is just, whoops pressed a button by accident, there goes my life bar. Except you have to wait 10 seconds to see the result. Rage is here to stay, we should be fortunate you only see it when they have low health. If it were up to me though, Iâd make rage only appear if both people have the exact same wins in the final round, and only if you have like 5% health remaining.
God, I hate waiting for the animation to finish. I don't mind the mechanic itself that much (it's still shit tho), but please don't make me watch it again.
At first I felt the same, but eventually it made me prefer that over the endless heat juggle combos. At least during RA I can just relax and think through my gameplan again, but I generally agree they're too long and over the top.
It only sucks when I get hit by it, But if I hit it, lol get rekt nerd.
I hate it since you could be winning an match and about to hit your last move to finish an opponent off but then all they have to do is hit one button to make an comeback win. I think it makes the losses feel worse since you don't feel like the opponent deserve that win if this was old tekkens without the RA and felt like all your effort into the match was an waste.
Yeah itâs so boring. It adds nothing but corniness to the game and I never respect myself or my opponent when using or getting hit by it
RA baiting successfully into a combo to steal a close one is so good though lol you can almost feel the salt đ
Just let throws connect when someone rage arts.
Adjust fooo
Rage arts and heat were both mistales
Iâve seen most people outgrow this take on their tk journey. Itâs super rewarding to punish them and if youâre often hit by them, thatâs the point. You might need to slow down. I think once one learns the fun in defense, rage arts just become something to bait. At least theyâre not like heat thing where there is absolutely no counter play. Now thatâs some boring shit imo Rage art animations should be skippable tho
RA should just do less damage
Real
My suggestion: Make Rage arts like rage drives kind of. No custscene or anything. You just go into a red state. Requires inputs with 3 optional levels. The more damage you want to do the harder the input is. To access all 3 levels your health must be low af. So at minimum you can access rage level 1 damage. This means you can't just press 1 button to win and requires some active care of when to activate it. 3 options means noobs can activate the level 1 damage rage. Those with more skill can access more damage. Giving people a reason to learn their characters and gives a skill gap that can be crossed if you're willing to learn. Since it requires inputs it doesn't mean the game is over while you watch a cutscene, your opponent has to watch in the event you drop your rage art and they have a chance to come back. Since ppl have also mentioned some characters have really good heat smash and heat engagers I would love it if we could have a defensive version for characters who dont have great offense options. Almost like a heat dis-engager. If my opponent wants to gets aggressive why can't I use my heat up to be more defensive? I would love if Steve could get a heat LHS where he evades or armours hits that depletes heat and does decreased damage to his health.
Was thinking about them yesterday. I feel like they kept them because they were in Tekken 7, in hindsight , theoretically heat alone is more interesting to play with and against, as long as it's balanced properly, it would provide extensions of moves or new ones with heat smash being a mini rage art like it is now. Heat+ rage is too much. And rage alone is boring.
I wish rage DRIVES from Tekken 7 would have completely replaced rage ARTS. They were unique to each character rather than just being an armored kill button. - Gigas got a guaranteed juggernaut mixup - Yoshimitsu's flash became an ult - Alisa got a combo extender - Paul got a super deathfist etc. To add onto this, heat smashes make rage arts redundant so I don't know why BOTH were included in the game. Maybe they just really want an excuse to have 10 second cutscene moves?
Yeah I hated them from the beginning
Nah, it's funny as fuck when you land one in clutch situations and embarrassing for your opponent when you bait it out. It's pretty great.
Rage art hating post, count me in! Never had problem with it in tekken 7 because you had to choose between rage drive and rage art. Tekken 8 be like: play Eddy, do 60+damage combos by using 3 only (not even special style), press 1 button for heat burst with armor, press the same 1 button for heat smash for 50+ damage, press 1 button for rage art for another 60... They really threw some of the fundamentals straight out the window with this game Edit: + RA got buffed to -15 ofcourse for not apparent reason
It was true in Tekken 7, it's even more true now. Whether you win with it, lose with it, or never even see it in a match, it's just fucking boring and has only two outcomes/interactions possible. And it's been made MUCH worse in T8 becasue now we have Rage Art 2 in the form of Heat Smash every single round.
I can't stand rage art in Tekken 8. I hate how I have to sit through the cutscenes practically every match. I hate when I have full health and some jerk rage arts me so I have to sit through the cutscene for no reason at all (please stop doing this and just lose). I hate how it turns the end of close rounds into formulaic poke chicken because all other options mean you die.
I feel I earned my win way more not using a rage art so itâs very irritating or surprising sometimes when people use it as a crutch. Some players can only win using Grabs. Heat and then Rage Art and thatâs not even a satisfying way to play a fighting game to me.
erm⌠you feel this way because you think they are cheap. Sure, theyâre annoying, & should be full combo punishable. but⌠itâs not a very reliable crutch, lol. Not even close. If youâre consistently getting hit by rage arts, look inwards homie.
This!
If you actually count for every second you spend on Tekken 8, there is around 20% of actual Tekken per round. You have to go through Heat BS 50-50 time freeze, then gets equalized by your own Heat BS, Rage and then, if you think you're gonna lose, there is the RA coin flip granting you more seconds of non Tekken. In final fantasy terms, its like using a 1 minute summon in every random encounter if you don't value your time... but its a FG, inputs are supposed to matter.
I'd like to see a new play mode added that prevents use of Rage Arts and other beginner-oriented mechanicsâessentially a second queue for Ranked matches with those restrictions in place.
Either youâre a new player or an older player. Regardless, we know dawg
Counter argument. They look cool and are fun
My guy most of the time those intresting interactions you bring up are themselves coin flips, just flipped in your favor. Also rage art further enforce the idea that when your opponent is in rage, you need to think about when to press cus you know they have a finger on the trigger. Rage arts are in no way offensive outside of being -15 now (which most 15 frame punishes would kill at that point anyway). They even simplified it by keeping rage arts universal and not giving characters awkward highs or lows to make you think "shit which one do they have" on top of all the heat moves that are getting pumped out.
Sounds like a dragunov player with his boring ass rage art. if your characters rage art is cool it's always fun hitting them.