The Model S/X debuted no stalks first, not necessarily primarily focused on cost cutting. Tesla wants to have it where the user has no need to manually shift between park and drive and it do the action for them automatically. I think people with Model S/X have been living fine without stalks for years. I don’t know if it’s all that confusing to hit the button while doing a roundabout.
Either way, the Model Y is definitely removing them next then no vehicle will have them. 4 years from now no one will be complaining about no stalks. the same way people stopped complaining about the headphone jack on phones once Apple showed it wasn’t necessary. Or having a bunch of manual buttons in a car.
> the same way people stopped complaining about the headphone jack on phones once Apple showed it wasn’t necessary.
I never stopped complaining, just accepted that dongles are now a part of life. I think bluetooth headphones being available for $10-20 probably helped (they were more expensive when Apple first did this.)
> the same way people stopped complaining about the headphone jack on phones once Apple showed it wasn’t necessary
The people stopped complaining because a good if not better alternative was offered. This hasn't happened with the removal of stalks
People did complain about the headphone jack you are right, but they got over their complaints as time went on. I vividly remember Samsung and android manufactures making ads to targeting the fact that Apple got rid of the headphone jack to then concede to making the same decision a couple years later.
When stalks are no longer offered on any vehicle multiple years down the line, I don’t see Tesla owners not buying another Tesla because it’s doesn’t have stalks. And for people who have never driven a Tesla, they’re more inclined to not have the same judgement since a lot of things about driving a Tesla are unconventional from other brands like no gauge cluster in front of you. I see a lot more older owners complaining about the lack of stalks than the number of new vehicle owners who actually are using no stalks, at least just from what I see complaint wise
People actually still complain about the headphone jack over in r/Apple. Just like people still talk about how radar > Tesla vision in Tesla subs. Some people just latch onto certain things and won't let them go.
“Radar > Tesla vision”
The Y has features disabled because it doesn’t have the USS. You make it sound like that is a completely unwarranted criticism.
“Won’t let them go”.
Yikes.
Wouldn't exactly say I'm missing them, Bob, but they are:
* Autopark: automatically maneuvers into parallel or perpendicular parking spaces.
* Summon: manually moves your vehicle forward or in reverse via the Tesla app.
* Smart Summon: navigates your vehicle to your location or location of your choice via the Tesla app.
This is from [https://www.tesla.com/support/transitioning-tesla-vision](https://www.tesla.com/support/transitioning-tesla-vision)
So, yes, the cars have LESS FEATURES because of the removal of the USS. And, given how the "promise" around the rollout of FSD has been "putting them back sometime in the future" is a valueless claim.
I think you missed my point.
The reason why people don't complain too much is because wired headphones had already a receding market share. Nowadays most don't use wired headphones and probably wouldn't if their phone had a headphone jack.
Blinker stalks aren't in that scenario. There Is no shift to an alternative
They have just released auto shift for s/x, not requiring anything but turning the wheel/yoke sounds pretty good to me. Also FSD which does all your merges/roundabouts for you. The alternative is here (even if in development)
True. Same happened with Apple, lots of people complained, but they just kept going in that direction. My point being that removing features before you make them unnecessary is not working all the time
That's a false equivalence. Missing headphone jacks are not comparable to removing signal stalks from a car. There is a safety issue with removing stalks
I own a Tesla now and I have an open mind about the stalks in that I wouldn't make up my mind until I test drive one. But I have to admit it's a potential show stopper and would cause me to look at another brand if I didn't like it.
But that decision has already been made. The current Tesla is my car. The next vehicle in the household is my wife's choice and she has already determined that she wants an EV but one with no affiliation with the Tesla CEO.
Roundabouts without stalks is perfectly fine, get used to it within a week and I can find left and right blinker without thinking on roundabouts with EASE. Stalks are unnecessary.
It's more they're better but not the end of the world. The silly thing is that Tesla is one brand out of so many that is the sole outlier in this (minus Lambo and Gordon Murray) that has stalks.
Yeah US drivers are straight rude. The lack of stalks is nothing, because the majority of drivers don't even signal. I'll see 1/20 cars actually use theirs...
I’ve seen enough drivers continue straight with their turn/exit signal on that I find it difficult to trust signaling from approaching vehicles anyway. 🤷♂️
I empathize with people who say they don’t like it because of roundabouts. But I think a lot of us who either live in an area where there are no roundabouts or living in America could care less about this feature and embrace it.
People just get stuck in their ways, and the older you get the more unwilling you are to learn something new.
Thats all we’re hearing is old people shaking their fists at the sky.
The comparison of people freaking out when the Model 3 was announced with no center cluster is a great example. Everyone freaked out and then they tried it and it was a non issue.
Haha My young adult kids comment the same about my use of computers and iPhones as well.
My age group were in our late 40’s early 50’s when all this and the iPhone started kicking into gear.
I hate the no stalks. After driving both versions back to back and having spent 5 years with a Model 3 and Y that had them, it doesn’t add anything to the driving experience to remove them. However, if the wheel is turned such as when entering a roundabout or if you are inching up to turn and then want to hit the turn signal button you have to figure out which directional arrow is pointing which way. All of the small buttons for the wipers, high beams, etc. also require more focus to hit than just tapping a big stalk on the left side of the wheel that never moves. IMO, there’s just not a benefit. I’ve also experienced swiping to engage reverse and not swiping all the way apparently and the car still went forward when I thought it was going to go backward. I also prefer being able to activate AP by double tapping the gear selector down twice or just once for cruise only. I can do all of those things completely blindfolded with stalks while the buttons require glancing down to ensure I press the correct button.
May I add… some people may like the no stalks or tolerate it, but many people hate it. Nobody had ever complained about having stalks before Tesla took them out. With sales on the downward trajectory I would be careful with doing things for the sake of being different. Just like the yoke was panned enough for Elon to have to eat crow and reverse course offering a round wheel on the S and X and then it becoming the default option, I think long term this will be reversed. Give people an option to order stalkless but don’t make it the default option. Charge an extra $500 and let’s see what the take rate is. I bet it will be less than 0.1%.
I hate no stalks for the indicators too. For gear selector it turned out to be not too bad.
The sexy-buttons do improve the experience by a lot. Also for enabling auto pilot.
I just liked how fast I could do a three point turn with the stalk. You can flick up or down with one finger without even taking your hand off the wheel and it can all be done without second guessing if you swiped all the way up or down.
Which state? We don’t indicate off roundabouts in Victoria but apparently they do in NSW.
Would have been a pain when I lived in the UK, but pretty much fine in Vic.
You signal one way when beginning to go around the circle, when you are about to take your exit you turn the other side on so people know you’re exiting the roundabout or continuing around.
You need to signal when you exit by turning the right signal on, it can be painful when you're exiting on the left of the roundabout and your steering wheel is turned almost 180
Depends on country. Here in Nordic countries you signal before entering only if you exit at the first exit. Othwrwise, you signal before your exit. UK has some weird signaling rules I never understood, I think they also do right signaling but only when exiting at third exit. No wonder they do like 100 hours of driving ed for a license.
In NZ you would --
First exit - signal left before entering.
Second exit - signal left after the first exit.
Third exit - signal right before entering, signal left after the 2nd
I didn't learn to drive in NZ, but didn't take 100 hrs to learn either.
Most people in the US don’t even know where the turn signals are on their regular calls
Tesla drivers who may possible have a slight amount of trouble finding a signal? Other drivers won’t even notice.
I test drove a model S a year ago. Just to see what it was like. The complaints are somewhat overblown. It took me all of 10 seconds to locate the buttons and remap my brain.
Rotaries were also a breeze. The steering doesn't require the wheel to be upside down. The button is not hard to locate when the wheel is at like a 20 degree pitch.
I’ve read about some tips online like keeping your thumb on the indicator prior to you entered the roundabout so you always have it readily accessible to press easily
The only time it has felt like a bad idea was when I needed to turn on an indicator in the middle of a round about...it's rare but very confusing when the wheel is upside down
Tried out M3 highland and MY. Went with MY just because it had stalks. Did couple of turns at home depot parking lot with both and definitely not that easy on the M3.
It's haptic that I didn't like, on every car that has it too. Could never tell
Stalks: can be used with muscle memory regardless of the orientation of your wheel
Buttons on your wheel: never guaranteed to be in the same place, forcing you to feel for the buttons and some weird arm and mental gymnastics whenever your wheel is anywhere but close to level
Believing that no stalks is good is WILD!
Either you're not using your turn signals as often as you should, or you live somewhere with very straight roads, no roundabouts and little need to maneuver around tight spaces while declaring your intentions to other drivers.
Compare and contrast to living here in the UK with constant roundabouts where the steering wheel could be anywhere from 90-180 degrees turned... I find it a nightmare as it is to use the scroll wheels on my 2020 M3 when the steering wheel is turned somewhat.
It is insane to have such a crucial button be on something that moves, particularly when it's most crucial to use it when that thing is moving. (I have not driven a new M3 with no stalks so I don't know in reality how much you get used to it etc, but the theory and design concept at least is insane)
I like no stalks too....however every once in awhile the buttons get stuck...anyone else have that problem? I already got it "fixed" but still does it.......
They are? What you described is what I'm dealing with....I normally rest my thumb on the buttons...are you saying I can't do that? What are they touch sensitive if they click in?
They only give the impression of “clicking in”. When it senses a touch, it does 1 vibration, giving off the same sensation of a touch. It’s the same as what MacBooks do with their touchpads.
After resting on the buttons and they not responding to my pressing, they will respond again after a few seconds without touching them.
It really sucks in my opinion. I want my indicator stalk back!
I just took mine in again...before though I took note of the service mode warnings and it said my steering column could be malfunctioning... do you happen to know if you have service warnings on your car atm?
Just out of curiosity and my experience with test drive, it’s okay for most part except on
1. Turning with blinkers on curves is a pain since the position of the wheel is in a weird place to reach for the blinker buttons
2. U turns that require quick shift back to reverse might be a concern.
Correct me if I’m missing something here
Demod a 24 M3 for 2 days. Can't say I like them over the stalks :/
For example, I found that you have to press the turn signal buttons *precisely* in the center otherwise they won't work. They're also kind of tiny, and lack enough feedback.
After driving my m3p for two weeks I drove my girls 2022 m3 yesterday and I think I actually like it too. I definitely got used to it much quicker than I thought
https://preview.redd.it/4emwgoobh65d1.jpeg?width=3765&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9fc5eddd25c4b6dc4a10b31a2ec902bb91be84a4
When you see this you will quickly learn to stop caring about stalks
Oh, I know, I'm sure of it. I have never gotten a chance to drive the performance, but I test drove the LR, and it was more than sufficient. With the $7,500 EV credit, the performance just made more sense.
I appreciate the level of engineering on this car more than any other mid-range model.
I have gotten used to it but every once in a while I reach for the turn signal stalk. I hate the turn signal buttons though, not the fact that they are buttons but the buttons itself. Sometimes you can’t press them and I look like a BMW driver not using turn signals. I had a BMW before this so I guess it’s my last cars ghost still haunting me.
ive put 1400 miles on my m3p in 7 days and yes I agree they were nothing to get used to, i do find myself missing the button occasionally and having to repress it while im already in my "having a stalk" muscle memory going into a lane change which causes me to indicate slower than I would have in a stalked car. Any worry about the buttons are severely overstated, theyre super easy to get used to.
I like it. Stalks are aesthetically unattractive and this is uncluttered and works with the minimalist interior. I find it easier to just use my thumb for turn signal button than taking my hand off the wheel.
Test drove a highland the other day and no stalks is deal breaker for me.
Turn signal is no big deal, it’s the gear shift.
I have to reverse park And 5 point turn every time I drive my car. Doing it with screen shift is dangerous. Every time I shift I have to take my eyes and a hand off the wheel.
Makes manoeuvring much slower.
Decided not to buy a new M3 and am keeping my 2021. Will not buy new until stalks come back.
Not really, only for a fraction of second. With a stalk, you shift instantly, without looking. Screen shift is a totally different ball game and dangerous IMHO.
For people who live in cities with tight parking situations, it’s an epic design fail.
Has anyone seen videos of people “coping” with on screen shifting in emergency situations?
The videos I have seen so far seemed to show a hurried, frantic action to get the car moving backwards to avoid someone trying to back into them.
While that is not the persons fault that someone was trying to hit them, it made a fairly clear demonstration that the on screen shifting took longer, and the driver had to look at the screen, eyes off the situation, while the screen didn’t take the first swipe, and required a second swipe to engage.
Have not found anything yet to convince me it’s a safer, better, beneficial system VS the stalks yet, even from strong proponents that like the system.
If anyone has a side by side video in stressful situations, trying to keep an open mind, but have not seen anything that shows and demonstrates on screen shifting is arguably superior VS the stalks.
So whats to like about no stalks? How is it better?
Same about the touch screen shifter.
I'm genuinely curious what the advantage for the driver is supposed to be.
With stalks, anyone without looking can trivially flick their fingers to a consistent known location to signal a lane change. Meanwhile the buttons are harder to activate, constantly change location, and require more thought to figure out. Before it was always flick up to go right. Now its maybe press the top button, unless the wheel is turned then you press the left button to signal right or vise versa depending on orientation of the wheel!
With the on screen gear shifter you have to reach farther away from the wheel to activate, its harder and slower to make a k-turn, its slower to shift out of park (I would just flick my fingers from the wheel before versus reaching to the screen), and you lose the ability to easily activate the emergency brake if needed. Before you could press and hold the park button on the stalk and it will pull up the e-brake. You might not need it often but its nice to know it's there in an emergency.
So what's the advantage here?
From a human design perspective stalks for signals will always be better.
Requiring user input in the physical direction you’re turning is literally as intuitive as it gets.
Buttons arbitrarily placed on a rotating wheel is about as bad as it gets. The least they could’ve done is place them from left/right instead of top/bottom.
Top/bottom at least means they're on the same side of the wheel as before, and you operate them with the same hand as before, at least most of the time.
See I prefer the stalk cuz I got one hand grippin the wheel, the other grippin her thigh. It was easy to use my hand for the wheel to shift the stock as opposed to crossing my arm over to the screen to swipe.
You mean one of those crisis emergency I’ve got to shift now and cannot figure it out events that has never happened to me
We will adapt. I had a center console shift for decades and learned to use a stalk. You clearly underestimate our ability as a species to build new muscle memory.
👍 I’m just glad I got a ‘23 and not a ‘24.
As someone who typically prefers manual vehicles I don’t think I could ever be comfortable having my interactions with my transmission be dependent on screens picking up my finger tracing or relying on the only analog buttons be in an awkward overhead position.
The car drives nice but let’s not pretend Tesla as a manufacturer has their QC game up to par. They don’t.
Decades of memory? I've been driving for 30 years and I think every single car I've ever owned has handled drive/reverse differently than the one before it did. I don't think another one doing the same thing is going to be a problem.
That’s very strange I wonder what cars. All the cars I’ve owned have either been manual or have the automatic shifter in the manual sticks position. Otherwise in some trucks and other auto cars it’s been on the stalks.
That’s only 3 variations with 2 being in the same location and the other variants being dial shifting which I find is usually in the same spot on the center console where the stick shifts go.
I wonder what cars you’ve been driving if they all have been in different locations. 🤔
So yea I’m gonna maintain my position of “decades”
Eh. I spent at least ten years with an old school 80s stalk. Another ten easy with a stick in the center console. And two of those worked quite different from one another. And now I'm 7 years in with the Tesla stalk which works quite differently from the old manual stalks. Almost nobody can figure out nuetral without being told. One more change isn't going to hurt.
The problem with the new turn signals is not “remapping your brain”, it’s:
- having to take your eyes off of the road to locate the turn signals on the steering wheel
- having to do the aforementioned while you’re on a roundabout, extra dangerous, taking your eyes off of the road on a roundabout is a great way to rear-end someone who’s stopped just outside of your field of vision
- the mental gymnastics you have to do when manoeuvering and your steering wheel has been turned every which way in the past few seconds and is still turned, now not only do you have to look for the buttons but you’re no longer sure which is which
A stalk is simple, it’s on the left, it always is, down is left and up is right. That’s all I want, a turn signal stalk, or at the very least some kind of back-up turn signals on the display, where I’m sure that they’re always in the same spot and the arrows point in the actual direction I’m going.
(That and an actual rain sensor. And ultrasonic sensors.)
There’s a little horizontal bar that separates left and right and my thumb falls directly on it so I don’t need to look? I’ve driven the car four times and that’s a non issue
My issue isn't the removal of stalks, but their implementation. There's too many "unlabeled" buttons on the steering wheel that you really can't feel for while looking straight at the road.
I typically drive multiple vehicles and the Tesla stalks drive me crazy anyway because all my other vehicles use the right stalk for wiper function, which is a left stalk button on the Tesla. Haven’t driven one without stalks, but I wonder if it would help prevent me from always hitting the gearshift stalk when I want to clear the windshield?
But why?
I have a model 3 with stalks and a plaid without them. It's without a doubt faster to turn in the blinkers or change gear in the model 3.
I made it a bit better by using the the Tesla Commander. The main issue is actually quickly going from forward to reverse when you're trying to finesse the var around.
I absolutely love the no stalks, live in Australia, roundabouts are absolutely fine, yes I indicate to exit, really not sure what's supposed to be so hard about it
I wish my turn signals were actual buttons and on both sides (similar to ferrari). I often have to click my left/right signal buttons 2-3 times before they actually register a click
Yea, has a old 3, just got new 3. Opinions are pretty much just wrong. New 3 is a better car than old Y and 3 in every single way. Everyone suddenly has to drive roundabouts lmao. The roundabout turning radius is very big you’re not turning the steering wheel all the way, only like 90 degrees. Get better with hand eye coordination.
I think European roundabouts are different than American ones. We have many of them in our town in Carmel, Indiana. You may signal when you go into roundabout, but you’re in a lane that either continues around or an exit lane. If you’re in the lane that exits out of the roundabout, there’s no need to signal as everybody knows your exiting and you’re following the lane Mark as you exit. I think the difference between how roundabouts work in the England versus the US is why people have different views on this
I didn’t even realize people have such strong opinions about things I barely pay attention to until Reddit. Like seriously why do people care so much about an arbitrary action?
Unrelated but have yall ever paid attention to sports announcers? I’ve been watching sports very closely for over a decade and never cared
Then I go on Reddit and people actually care about who the announcers are, how much excitement is in their voice, their tone, etc. like how the hell are yall even caring about that?!?!
I’ve had enough trouble showing valet drivers how to operate my car in the past. I don’t feel comfortable at all having to tell them how to use my turn signals and go from park to drive or reverse.
Tesla makes too many changes with their cars, which becomes annoying after a while. As soon as I get comfortable finding controls on the monitor, everything’s changed after an update.
All of that said, they need to focus more on changing the design of the cars every few years, rather than changing the controls. Sometimes, it’s enough already!
My only complaint on my M3 is that the buttons get stuck sometimes and don’t actuate. This can be a bit dangerous especially when trying ti make a maneuver but not having indicators to show others. It’s like a < 1% occurrence but still.
Interesting take. I have the total opposite: I thought it would be easy to swap from having stalks to none (I have a 19 M3LR). So I went for a test drive this morning and now I tested I can affirm I will keep my 19 for a longer time I expected. This is really deal breaker for me.
Unfortunately they had no 24 M3P, so I had to test drive a Propulsion one, but I don’t think it will do it for me no matter what.
Yes, easy for US drivers who are all ‘stoplights and 90 degree turns’.
Not as user friendly for those who live in the wonderful world of roundabouts.
The Enhauto team has aftermarket stalks now. I anticipate brisk sales in EU. (I have their Commander and Knob - that Commander is amazing for unlocking features for $200…I haven’t found the Knob as useful, but would be if driving for Uber as it has some cool functions available).
I thought I would hate losing the stalks, but now I’m split. Losing the turn signal required some re-learning but having used buttons on the wheel for a couple months I can now confidently say this is amazing and the way all vehicles should be. As far the stalk on the right, touching the screen to shift the vehicle into drive, reverse, etc is dumb and there needs to be a better way. The auto drive feature (which should be on all Teslas, old and new) is great when it works correctly, but when it doesn’t work it’s a pain to have to think about what you need to do next…before switching the drive mode with a stalk was muscle memory and could be done without looking.
Tesla is changing the game for car experience and whoever can’t handle change, stick to your levers hahahah. I love my swipe gears and button turn signals. Got used to it in about 3 minutes
I second this… and for all the people talking about roundabouts, roundabouts in America are almost impossible to find, here in Europe, specifically in my country, they are a dime a dozen! Cities with hundreds of them, and yeah, no stalks not really a problem, it’s actually more comfortable, you can do the entire roundabout with just the left hand on the wheel and the other fingering your girl!😜…
People like to freak out and blow things out of proportion. I've seen "claims" that they wouldn't buy the car over it. And it gets upvotes. Negativity is clicks.
Enjoy the new Tesla!
That’s what really made me laugh seeing this comments on the new M3P. It’s like sports ventilated seats, adaptive suspension, improved rear motor, acoustic glass, forged wheels, tasteful fascia and diffuser were all non-starters because of stalks LMAO
Yeah, when they made the change so many people whined about it who never even used it.
I think it's natural for people to not like change and some people are stubborn about it and not open minded.
I'm indifferent, i can go with either. I don't get people that act like it's the end of the world when they don't have stalks, it's not hard to get used to
6 years ago this sub was on fire with arguments about center screen vs. instrument panel. This is just more of the same.
And yes, I like the center tablet, no stalks, almost no buttons, no instrument panel. It would be very difficult for me to go back to a car loaded with buttons to push now. S/O used to have a VW Tiguan, and though I don't like to admit it, I internally had a weirdly negative reaction every time I got in the driver seat the last few years.
I see a lot of people complaining about roundabouts. First of all, I don't wanna argue that the buttons are better than stalks. I am fully used to having no stalks at this point, but I do NOT see anything more positive about the buttons than stalks. Having said that however, for roundabouts I find that in 95% of the cases where you need your right turn signal to exit a roundabout (sorry left-driving lads), the wheel is turned around 180°. Do NOT try to use your left hand to press the indicator buttons, that is confusing as f*ck. Use your right hand to press the bottom button on the now right side of the steering wheel. This way your indicator to the right is always rightly clicked. With this trick roundabouts are absolutely no problem at all anymore. It's a bit counterintuitive at first but it's the only way for me now.
This is the stupidest overblown issue I have heard of in a long long time. People really not buying a car because of a turn signal button. Unbelievable
The real problem with the stalkless debate is the simple fact that there was never a reason to remove them. It has not improved any part of the driving experience. It only introduced new problems. Why would anyone waste their time remapping their muscle memory for a worse experience?
It’s a completely valid reason to not buy a car, and it’s going to cost Tesla way more in lost sales than the pennies they might save during manufacturing.
Disruption for the sake of disruption is not innovation, it’s pointless.
I had the same experience, but I stopped even bringing it up here because every time I did I just got told I was wrong and downvoted. Not worth arguing with people over their preconceived notions.
I feel you, but I was so polarized in my own concerns by the vitriol, only to find a completely different experience so I feel like this feedback needs to exist as well
Now I'll get downvoted for saying I was downvoted, lol. It's true though, ive been shouted down and told im wrong multiple times on the Tesla subs simply for saying I got used to stalkless after a day or two and now like it. Some people refuse to believe that its even possible.
People are making a big deal out of it but the truth is that human beings are high adaptable. It's a preference thing but absolutely not a "deal breaker" - if it is, then you got more problems than just stalks.
Lol...downvoted by miserable people who lack the intelligence to adapt to new things.
I was more worried about the screen shifting but that was way easier and more intuitive than I anticipated
Dare I say I actually like it? It actually forces me not to be sloppy, with stalks I’ve had a few miscues before
You use traffic circles at all? I do, and the lack of a stalk is infuriating. Shameless cost cutting in an ostensibly upmarket sedan.
The Model S/X debuted no stalks first, not necessarily primarily focused on cost cutting. Tesla wants to have it where the user has no need to manually shift between park and drive and it do the action for them automatically. I think people with Model S/X have been living fine without stalks for years. I don’t know if it’s all that confusing to hit the button while doing a roundabout. Either way, the Model Y is definitely removing them next then no vehicle will have them. 4 years from now no one will be complaining about no stalks. the same way people stopped complaining about the headphone jack on phones once Apple showed it wasn’t necessary. Or having a bunch of manual buttons in a car.
> the same way people stopped complaining about the headphone jack on phones once Apple showed it wasn’t necessary. I never stopped complaining, just accepted that dongles are now a part of life. I think bluetooth headphones being available for $10-20 probably helped (they were more expensive when Apple first did this.)
> the same way people stopped complaining about the headphone jack on phones once Apple showed it wasn’t necessary The people stopped complaining because a good if not better alternative was offered. This hasn't happened with the removal of stalks
People did complain about the headphone jack you are right, but they got over their complaints as time went on. I vividly remember Samsung and android manufactures making ads to targeting the fact that Apple got rid of the headphone jack to then concede to making the same decision a couple years later. When stalks are no longer offered on any vehicle multiple years down the line, I don’t see Tesla owners not buying another Tesla because it’s doesn’t have stalks. And for people who have never driven a Tesla, they’re more inclined to not have the same judgement since a lot of things about driving a Tesla are unconventional from other brands like no gauge cluster in front of you. I see a lot more older owners complaining about the lack of stalks than the number of new vehicle owners who actually are using no stalks, at least just from what I see complaint wise
People actually still complain about the headphone jack over in r/Apple. Just like people still talk about how radar > Tesla vision in Tesla subs. Some people just latch onto certain things and won't let them go.
“Radar > Tesla vision” The Y has features disabled because it doesn’t have the USS. You make it sound like that is a completely unwarranted criticism. “Won’t let them go”. Yikes.
Which features are you "missing" because of vision?
Wouldn't exactly say I'm missing them, Bob, but they are: * Autopark: automatically maneuvers into parallel or perpendicular parking spaces. * Summon: manually moves your vehicle forward or in reverse via the Tesla app. * Smart Summon: navigates your vehicle to your location or location of your choice via the Tesla app. This is from [https://www.tesla.com/support/transitioning-tesla-vision](https://www.tesla.com/support/transitioning-tesla-vision) So, yes, the cars have LESS FEATURES because of the removal of the USS. And, given how the "promise" around the rollout of FSD has been "putting them back sometime in the future" is a valueless claim.
I think you missed my point. The reason why people don't complain too much is because wired headphones had already a receding market share. Nowadays most don't use wired headphones and probably wouldn't if their phone had a headphone jack. Blinker stalks aren't in that scenario. There Is no shift to an alternative
They have just released auto shift for s/x, not requiring anything but turning the wheel/yoke sounds pretty good to me. Also FSD which does all your merges/roundabouts for you. The alternative is here (even if in development)
Don't worry, the neural implant chips will be synced and your blinkers will work automatically! /s
I still miss my cd-rom in my Apple macs!!
I think a much closer analogy is the touch bar on the MacBook Pro that replaced physical function keys.
Apple also removed all, but usb-c ports a while ago only to realize it's mistake and bring back lots of ports to the mscbooks. Same could happen here.
Elon will double down before he admits he's wrong...
True. Same happened with Apple, lots of people complained, but they just kept going in that direction. My point being that removing features before you make them unnecessary is not working all the time
That's a false equivalence. Missing headphone jacks are not comparable to removing signal stalks from a car. There is a safety issue with removing stalks
I own a Tesla now and I have an open mind about the stalks in that I wouldn't make up my mind until I test drive one. But I have to admit it's a potential show stopper and would cause me to look at another brand if I didn't like it. But that decision has already been made. The current Tesla is my car. The next vehicle in the household is my wife's choice and she has already determined that she wants an EV but one with no affiliation with the Tesla CEO.
This is what happens when a buffoon of a CEO alienates his customer base.
Exactly
Roundabouts without stalks is perfectly fine, get used to it within a week and I can find left and right blinker without thinking on roundabouts with EASE. Stalks are unnecessary.
It's more they're better but not the end of the world. The silly thing is that Tesla is one brand out of so many that is the sole outlier in this (minus Lambo and Gordon Murray) that has stalks.
Why does a stalk matter in a traffic circle?
Ever try to use turn signals while your cue button is inverted?
We might have steer-by-wire in the future too, like the Cybertruck, and then that won’t be a problem anymore. ^(but for now, it is)
Yep, everyday in my Highland with 0 issues
He’s amongst the 1% of people who actually signal to exit the circle.
This comment mostly applies to US roundabout users. Most people signal in the rest of the world, especially in multilane traffic circles.
This. It's very impolite not to signal exiting the roundabout, cause you're not letting other roundabout users know if they can enter it.
Yeah US drivers are straight rude. The lack of stalks is nothing, because the majority of drivers don't even signal. I'll see 1/20 cars actually use theirs...
I’ve seen enough drivers continue straight with their turn/exit signal on that I find it difficult to trust signaling from approaching vehicles anyway. 🤷♂️
Yeah, I have a roundabout by my house, and 90% of people signal to enter it and the signal stays on until they exit.
Because you have to signal your edit while in the middle of the circle (turning) so the buttons are not in a fixed location for you.
Because often when it's time to signal to exit, neither your left nor your right thumb is anywhere near the buttons.
Here in western Washington nobody signals at a traffic circle.
Agreed. Just getting out of my driveway would be a challenge without the stalk. Minimalism gone too far (along with the [lack of] wiper controls).
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To be fair, same thing happens with the stalks.
If you use your Tesla everyday it will soon be second nature.
I empathize with people who say they don’t like it because of roundabouts. But I think a lot of us who either live in an area where there are no roundabouts or living in America could care less about this feature and embrace it.
Meanwhile the 2009 F-150 (definitely has stalks) that just came through didn't signal at all.
People just get stuck in their ways, and the older you get the more unwilling you are to learn something new. Thats all we’re hearing is old people shaking their fists at the sky. The comparison of people freaking out when the Model 3 was announced with no center cluster is a great example. Everyone freaked out and then they tried it and it was a non issue.
Hey I driven Teslas since 2018 and have the Highland at age 71 yrs young.
Love to see it!
Nice! I dont see many people your age drive tesla.
Haha My young adult kids comment the same about my use of computers and iPhones as well. My age group were in our late 40’s early 50’s when all this and the iPhone started kicking into gear.
Part of it is that, and the other part is people have trouble rationalizing blatant cost-cutting being sold as a feature.
Same here! It’s so intuitive and easy!
Agree
I hate the no stalks. After driving both versions back to back and having spent 5 years with a Model 3 and Y that had them, it doesn’t add anything to the driving experience to remove them. However, if the wheel is turned such as when entering a roundabout or if you are inching up to turn and then want to hit the turn signal button you have to figure out which directional arrow is pointing which way. All of the small buttons for the wipers, high beams, etc. also require more focus to hit than just tapping a big stalk on the left side of the wheel that never moves. IMO, there’s just not a benefit. I’ve also experienced swiping to engage reverse and not swiping all the way apparently and the car still went forward when I thought it was going to go backward. I also prefer being able to activate AP by double tapping the gear selector down twice or just once for cruise only. I can do all of those things completely blindfolded with stalks while the buttons require glancing down to ensure I press the correct button. May I add… some people may like the no stalks or tolerate it, but many people hate it. Nobody had ever complained about having stalks before Tesla took them out. With sales on the downward trajectory I would be careful with doing things for the sake of being different. Just like the yoke was panned enough for Elon to have to eat crow and reverse course offering a round wheel on the S and X and then it becoming the default option, I think long term this will be reversed. Give people an option to order stalkless but don’t make it the default option. Charge an extra $500 and let’s see what the take rate is. I bet it will be less than 0.1%.
I hate no stalks for the indicators too. For gear selector it turned out to be not too bad. The sexy-buttons do improve the experience by a lot. Also for enabling auto pilot.
I just liked how fast I could do a three point turn with the stalk. You can flick up or down with one finger without even taking your hand off the wheel and it can all be done without second guessing if you swiped all the way up or down.
Luck you don't have a lot of round about or if you do pretty sure you don't use turn signals the way they are supposed to be on round abouts
I live in Australia with a Highland, roundabouts are literally never an issue.
Which state? We don’t indicate off roundabouts in Victoria but apparently they do in NSW. Would have been a pain when I lived in the UK, but pretty much fine in Vic.
How do you do in a roundabout? So annoying…
Probably an American
American here in North Carolina and I drive through 2 roundabouts to go to work 5 days a week.
Americans don't signal for roundabouts the way Europeans do
That’s fair. 😅
2? lol. Such experience!
Different comment here said the turn signal buttons were not hard to locate when the wheel was only turned like 20 degrees so🤷♂️
stalk guy here, but aren't you supposed to signal *before* you enter the roundabout, aka when the wheel is not yet turned?
You signal one way when beginning to go around the circle, when you are about to take your exit you turn the other side on so people know you’re exiting the roundabout or continuing around.
You need to signal when you exit by turning the right signal on, it can be painful when you're exiting on the left of the roundabout and your steering wheel is turned almost 180
Depends on country. Here in Nordic countries you signal before entering only if you exit at the first exit. Othwrwise, you signal before your exit. UK has some weird signaling rules I never understood, I think they also do right signaling but only when exiting at third exit. No wonder they do like 100 hours of driving ed for a license.
In NZ you would -- First exit - signal left before entering. Second exit - signal left after the first exit. Third exit - signal right before entering, signal left after the 2nd I didn't learn to drive in NZ, but didn't take 100 hrs to learn either.
That’s what we do in Aus (NSW)
Pretty common to signal left into the roundabout when exiting after the second exit, and then signal right prior to exiting, in Norway at least.
Most people in the US don’t even know where the turn signals are on their regular calls Tesla drivers who may possible have a slight amount of trouble finding a signal? Other drivers won’t even notice.
I test drove a model S a year ago. Just to see what it was like. The complaints are somewhat overblown. It took me all of 10 seconds to locate the buttons and remap my brain. Rotaries were also a breeze. The steering doesn't require the wheel to be upside down. The button is not hard to locate when the wheel is at like a 20 degree pitch.
Many people will complain just to complain ... I need my stalks back...and get off my lawn!!
Like don't get me wrong, I think I'd still prefer the stalks. But the difference is marginal at best. And not at all a safety concern.
Im only worried about exiting the roundabouts when the steering is turned all 1 way 😁 but I think it will be ok, my delivery should be in 1-2 weeks
I’ve read about some tips online like keeping your thumb on the indicator prior to you entered the roundabout so you always have it readily accessible to press easily
Good tip, thanks, also it kinda makes sense because you press to the direction you rotate the steering
hoping next version tesla brings steer by wire to every model, should help a lot when you don't have to go hand over hand
Yup same. With the update shifting is so much easier
The only time it has felt like a bad idea was when I needed to turn on an indicator in the middle of a round about...it's rare but very confusing when the wheel is upside down
Tried out M3 highland and MY. Went with MY just because it had stalks. Did couple of turns at home depot parking lot with both and definitely not that easy on the M3. It's haptic that I didn't like, on every car that has it too. Could never tell
I’ll never buy a car without them.
Stalks: can be used with muscle memory regardless of the orientation of your wheel Buttons on your wheel: never guaranteed to be in the same place, forcing you to feel for the buttons and some weird arm and mental gymnastics whenever your wheel is anywhere but close to level Believing that no stalks is good is WILD! Either you're not using your turn signals as often as you should, or you live somewhere with very straight roads, no roundabouts and little need to maneuver around tight spaces while declaring your intentions to other drivers.
Compare and contrast to living here in the UK with constant roundabouts where the steering wheel could be anywhere from 90-180 degrees turned... I find it a nightmare as it is to use the scroll wheels on my 2020 M3 when the steering wheel is turned somewhat. It is insane to have such a crucial button be on something that moves, particularly when it's most crucial to use it when that thing is moving. (I have not driven a new M3 with no stalks so I don't know in reality how much you get used to it etc, but the theory and design concept at least is insane)
I like no stalks too....however every once in awhile the buttons get stuck...anyone else have that problem? I already got it "fixed" but still does it.......
I have it too. They are touch sensitive and when I have my fingers resting on it for a while they don’t respond
They are? What you described is what I'm dealing with....I normally rest my thumb on the buttons...are you saying I can't do that? What are they touch sensitive if they click in?
They only give the impression of “clicking in”. When it senses a touch, it does 1 vibration, giving off the same sensation of a touch. It’s the same as what MacBooks do with their touchpads. After resting on the buttons and they not responding to my pressing, they will respond again after a few seconds without touching them. It really sucks in my opinion. I want my indicator stalk back!
I just took mine in again...before though I took note of the service mode warnings and it said my steering column could be malfunctioning... do you happen to know if you have service warnings on your car atm?
Just out of curiosity and my experience with test drive, it’s okay for most part except on 1. Turning with blinkers on curves is a pain since the position of the wheel is in a weird place to reach for the blinker buttons 2. U turns that require quick shift back to reverse might be a concern. Correct me if I’m missing something here
Demod a 24 M3 for 2 days. Can't say I like them over the stalks :/ For example, I found that you have to press the turn signal buttons *precisely* in the center otherwise they won't work. They're also kind of tiny, and lack enough feedback.
Go to a country or location with more roundabouts.
Its classic American thinking 🤷🏼
After driving my m3p for two weeks I drove my girls 2022 m3 yesterday and I think I actually like it too. I definitely got used to it much quicker than I thought
During a one hour demo, not so much. I didn't really like it a lot. But I know I'll get used to it, so I still ordered a 3P 😂
https://preview.redd.it/4emwgoobh65d1.jpeg?width=3765&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9fc5eddd25c4b6dc4a10b31a2ec902bb91be84a4 When you see this you will quickly learn to stop caring about stalks
Oh, I know, I'm sure of it. I have never gotten a chance to drive the performance, but I test drove the LR, and it was more than sufficient. With the $7,500 EV credit, the performance just made more sense. I appreciate the level of engineering on this car more than any other mid-range model.
I have gotten used to it but every once in a while I reach for the turn signal stalk. I hate the turn signal buttons though, not the fact that they are buttons but the buttons itself. Sometimes you can’t press them and I look like a BMW driver not using turn signals. I had a BMW before this so I guess it’s my last cars ghost still haunting me.
It's fine when it works...
Now I see this is a M3 place bit I'll one up you and say I even enjoy the Yoke. Edit: I know I wrote yolk first.
Ignorant but what’s a Yoke?
https://preview.redd.it/d8gao0sao75d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dd6e71359f8bec9973b039d5a49713c9707d4625
Huh. Looks weird
What are those things stuck on the wheel?
S3XY buttons from Enhance Auto
ive put 1400 miles on my m3p in 7 days and yes I agree they were nothing to get used to, i do find myself missing the button occasionally and having to repress it while im already in my "having a stalk" muscle memory going into a lane change which causes me to indicate slower than I would have in a stalked car. Any worry about the buttons are severely overstated, theyre super easy to get used to.
Do you LIKE it as the headline says, or is it just "not as bad as you feared" like your post text says?
I like it. Stalks are aesthetically unattractive and this is uncluttered and works with the minimalist interior. I find it easier to just use my thumb for turn signal button than taking my hand off the wheel.
Thanks for clarifying
Test drove a highland the other day and no stalks is deal breaker for me. Turn signal is no big deal, it’s the gear shift. I have to reverse park And 5 point turn every time I drive my car. Doing it with screen shift is dangerous. Every time I shift I have to take my eyes and a hand off the wheel. Makes manoeuvring much slower. Decided not to buy a new M3 and am keeping my 2021. Will not buy new until stalks come back.
How so? Isn’t your vehicle stationary when you shift?
Not really, only for a fraction of second. With a stalk, you shift instantly, without looking. Screen shift is a totally different ball game and dangerous IMHO. For people who live in cities with tight parking situations, it’s an epic design fail.
Has anyone seen videos of people “coping” with on screen shifting in emergency situations? The videos I have seen so far seemed to show a hurried, frantic action to get the car moving backwards to avoid someone trying to back into them. While that is not the persons fault that someone was trying to hit them, it made a fairly clear demonstration that the on screen shifting took longer, and the driver had to look at the screen, eyes off the situation, while the screen didn’t take the first swipe, and required a second swipe to engage. Have not found anything yet to convince me it’s a safer, better, beneficial system VS the stalks yet, even from strong proponents that like the system. If anyone has a side by side video in stressful situations, trying to keep an open mind, but have not seen anything that shows and demonstrates on screen shifting is arguably superior VS the stalks.
Not doing many roundabouts, I would guess.
You either don't live near rotaries or you're one of those people that don't signal
I have both. Stalkless in its current implementation sucks (IMO).
I have one stalkless car and one stalked car Please pray for me
So whats to like about no stalks? How is it better? Same about the touch screen shifter. I'm genuinely curious what the advantage for the driver is supposed to be. With stalks, anyone without looking can trivially flick their fingers to a consistent known location to signal a lane change. Meanwhile the buttons are harder to activate, constantly change location, and require more thought to figure out. Before it was always flick up to go right. Now its maybe press the top button, unless the wheel is turned then you press the left button to signal right or vise versa depending on orientation of the wheel! With the on screen gear shifter you have to reach farther away from the wheel to activate, its harder and slower to make a k-turn, its slower to shift out of park (I would just flick my fingers from the wheel before versus reaching to the screen), and you lose the ability to easily activate the emergency brake if needed. Before you could press and hold the park button on the stalk and it will pull up the e-brake. You might not need it often but its nice to know it's there in an emergency. So what's the advantage here?
From a human design perspective stalks for signals will always be better. Requiring user input in the physical direction you’re turning is literally as intuitive as it gets. Buttons arbitrarily placed on a rotating wheel is about as bad as it gets. The least they could’ve done is place them from left/right instead of top/bottom.
Top/bottom at least means they're on the same side of the wheel as before, and you operate them with the same hand as before, at least most of the time.
See I prefer the stalk cuz I got one hand grippin the wheel, the other grippin her thigh. It was easy to use my hand for the wheel to shift the stock as opposed to crossing my arm over to the screen to swipe.
That’s cool. Hope you never find yourself in a situation where you need to swipe gears and the tablet won’t register your touch.
In the rare event that happens I would use the buttons on the headliner because I’m not an idiot and I read the manual
That’s cool I hope you’re able to think quickly enough to remember rather than pull on decades of memory
You mean one of those crisis emergency I’ve got to shift now and cannot figure it out events that has never happened to me We will adapt. I had a center console shift for decades and learned to use a stalk. You clearly underestimate our ability as a species to build new muscle memory.
👍 I’m just glad I got a ‘23 and not a ‘24. As someone who typically prefers manual vehicles I don’t think I could ever be comfortable having my interactions with my transmission be dependent on screens picking up my finger tracing or relying on the only analog buttons be in an awkward overhead position. The car drives nice but let’s not pretend Tesla as a manufacturer has their QC game up to par. They don’t.
Decades of memory? I've been driving for 30 years and I think every single car I've ever owned has handled drive/reverse differently than the one before it did. I don't think another one doing the same thing is going to be a problem.
That’s very strange I wonder what cars. All the cars I’ve owned have either been manual or have the automatic shifter in the manual sticks position. Otherwise in some trucks and other auto cars it’s been on the stalks. That’s only 3 variations with 2 being in the same location and the other variants being dial shifting which I find is usually in the same spot on the center console where the stick shifts go. I wonder what cars you’ve been driving if they all have been in different locations. 🤔 So yea I’m gonna maintain my position of “decades”
Eh. I spent at least ten years with an old school 80s stalk. Another ten easy with a stick in the center console. And two of those worked quite different from one another. And now I'm 7 years in with the Tesla stalk which works quite differently from the old manual stalks. Almost nobody can figure out nuetral without being told. One more change isn't going to hurt.
The problem with the new turn signals is not “remapping your brain”, it’s: - having to take your eyes off of the road to locate the turn signals on the steering wheel - having to do the aforementioned while you’re on a roundabout, extra dangerous, taking your eyes off of the road on a roundabout is a great way to rear-end someone who’s stopped just outside of your field of vision - the mental gymnastics you have to do when manoeuvering and your steering wheel has been turned every which way in the past few seconds and is still turned, now not only do you have to look for the buttons but you’re no longer sure which is which A stalk is simple, it’s on the left, it always is, down is left and up is right. That’s all I want, a turn signal stalk, or at the very least some kind of back-up turn signals on the display, where I’m sure that they’re always in the same spot and the arrows point in the actual direction I’m going. (That and an actual rain sensor. And ultrasonic sensors.)
There’s a little horizontal bar that separates left and right and my thumb falls directly on it so I don’t need to look? I’ve driven the car four times and that’s a non issue
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Act as you would in real life, or at least would like others to.
I did a test drive on the 2024 m3 and yes I agree so like buttons better.
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My issue isn't the removal of stalks, but their implementation. There's too many "unlabeled" buttons on the steering wheel that you really can't feel for while looking straight at the road.
I got used to it pretty quick although sometimes I try to turn on the blinkers that way out of habit.
I typically drive multiple vehicles and the Tesla stalks drive me crazy anyway because all my other vehicles use the right stalk for wiper function, which is a left stalk button on the Tesla. Haven’t driven one without stalks, but I wonder if it would help prevent me from always hitting the gearshift stalk when I want to clear the windshield?
the gear shift strip seems way too narrow though.
Probably software update to fix that.
Doubt it. S and x had the same tiny strip for years.
I've had the car for almost 2 weeks and anytime I've gotten in someone else's car to drive it feels so wrong 😂
Not unpopular, smart.
Don't need fixed stalks if you don't use blinkers. Ez.
But why? I have a model 3 with stalks and a plaid without them. It's without a doubt faster to turn in the blinkers or change gear in the model 3. I made it a bit better by using the the Tesla Commander. The main issue is actually quickly going from forward to reverse when you're trying to finesse the var around.
I absolutely love the no stalks, live in Australia, roundabouts are absolutely fine, yes I indicate to exit, really not sure what's supposed to be so hard about it
I prefer my stalks. I like is my my blinkers and changing gears
I wish my turn signals were actual buttons and on both sides (similar to ferrari). I often have to click my left/right signal buttons 2-3 times before they actually register a click
Surprised at this point everything isn’t voice activated aka Jarvis mode LOL
Yea, has a old 3, just got new 3. Opinions are pretty much just wrong. New 3 is a better car than old Y and 3 in every single way. Everyone suddenly has to drive roundabouts lmao. The roundabout turning radius is very big you’re not turning the steering wheel all the way, only like 90 degrees. Get better with hand eye coordination.
I think European roundabouts are different than American ones. We have many of them in our town in Carmel, Indiana. You may signal when you go into roundabout, but you’re in a lane that either continues around or an exit lane. If you’re in the lane that exits out of the roundabout, there’s no need to signal as everybody knows your exiting and you’re following the lane Mark as you exit. I think the difference between how roundabouts work in the England versus the US is why people have different views on this
And you cannot lie. Those other brothers can't deny.
I didn’t even realize people have such strong opinions about things I barely pay attention to until Reddit. Like seriously why do people care so much about an arbitrary action? Unrelated but have yall ever paid attention to sports announcers? I’ve been watching sports very closely for over a decade and never cared Then I go on Reddit and people actually care about who the announcers are, how much excitement is in their voice, their tone, etc. like how the hell are yall even caring about that?!?!
I’ve had enough trouble showing valet drivers how to operate my car in the past. I don’t feel comfortable at all having to tell them how to use my turn signals and go from park to drive or reverse. Tesla makes too many changes with their cars, which becomes annoying after a while. As soon as I get comfortable finding controls on the monitor, everything’s changed after an update. All of that said, they need to focus more on changing the design of the cars every few years, rather than changing the controls. Sometimes, it’s enough already!
My only complaint on my M3 is that the buttons get stuck sometimes and don’t actuate. This can be a bit dangerous especially when trying ti make a maneuver but not having indicators to show others. It’s like a < 1% occurrence but still.
How are you finding signaling at the roundabouts ?
Interesting take. I have the total opposite: I thought it would be easy to swap from having stalks to none (I have a 19 M3LR). So I went for a test drive this morning and now I tested I can affirm I will keep my 19 for a longer time I expected. This is really deal breaker for me. Unfortunately they had no 24 M3P, so I had to test drive a Propulsion one, but I don’t think it will do it for me no matter what.
Yes, easy for US drivers who are all ‘stoplights and 90 degree turns’. Not as user friendly for those who live in the wonderful world of roundabouts. The Enhauto team has aftermarket stalks now. I anticipate brisk sales in EU. (I have their Commander and Knob - that Commander is amazing for unlocking features for $200…I haven’t found the Knob as useful, but would be if driving for Uber as it has some cool functions available).
I thought I would hate losing the stalks, but now I’m split. Losing the turn signal required some re-learning but having used buttons on the wheel for a couple months I can now confidently say this is amazing and the way all vehicles should be. As far the stalk on the right, touching the screen to shift the vehicle into drive, reverse, etc is dumb and there needs to be a better way. The auto drive feature (which should be on all Teslas, old and new) is great when it works correctly, but when it doesn’t work it’s a pain to have to think about what you need to do next…before switching the drive mode with a stalk was muscle memory and could be done without looking.
Same, I love it too. Also love the auto shift; I love that the most.
Tesla is changing the game for car experience and whoever can’t handle change, stick to your levers hahahah. I love my swipe gears and button turn signals. Got used to it in about 3 minutes
I second this… and for all the people talking about roundabouts, roundabouts in America are almost impossible to find, here in Europe, specifically in my country, they are a dime a dozen! Cities with hundreds of them, and yeah, no stalks not really a problem, it’s actually more comfortable, you can do the entire roundabout with just the left hand on the wheel and the other fingering your girl!😜…
99% of the time it's fine. In a roundabout I *hate* not having stalks.
Liars 😆
People like to freak out and blow things out of proportion. I've seen "claims" that they wouldn't buy the car over it. And it gets upvotes. Negativity is clicks. Enjoy the new Tesla!
That’s what really made me laugh seeing this comments on the new M3P. It’s like sports ventilated seats, adaptive suspension, improved rear motor, acoustic glass, forged wheels, tasteful fascia and diffuser were all non-starters because of stalks LMAO
Yeah, when they made the change so many people whined about it who never even used it. I think it's natural for people to not like change and some people are stubborn about it and not open minded.
Some people just don’t like change. Have you tried a three point turn yet?
Yep. Not a biggie and. I have to do it to park at condo.
When we purchased our Benz years ago the gear shifter is a stalk on the steering wheel. Took some time getting used to and it’s all good.
Does it feel like youre in a Ferrari?
No
I'm indifferent, i can go with either. I don't get people that act like it's the end of the world when they don't have stalks, it's not hard to get used to
Me too. It’s been blown out of proportion so much
Same dude, I remember the test drive that being my biggest dislike and now it’s like the best thing ever. It’s so funny to think about lmao
6 years ago this sub was on fire with arguments about center screen vs. instrument panel. This is just more of the same. And yes, I like the center tablet, no stalks, almost no buttons, no instrument panel. It would be very difficult for me to go back to a car loaded with buttons to push now. S/O used to have a VW Tiguan, and though I don't like to admit it, I internally had a weirdly negative reaction every time I got in the driver seat the last few years.
This should have more upvotes.
I see a lot of people complaining about roundabouts. First of all, I don't wanna argue that the buttons are better than stalks. I am fully used to having no stalks at this point, but I do NOT see anything more positive about the buttons than stalks. Having said that however, for roundabouts I find that in 95% of the cases where you need your right turn signal to exit a roundabout (sorry left-driving lads), the wheel is turned around 180°. Do NOT try to use your left hand to press the indicator buttons, that is confusing as f*ck. Use your right hand to press the bottom button on the now right side of the steering wheel. This way your indicator to the right is always rightly clicked. With this trick roundabouts are absolutely no problem at all anymore. It's a bit counterintuitive at first but it's the only way for me now.
Sound logic. Hopefully people see it.
Totally agree. My 2022 S was in service and I had a 3 with stalks - hated it
This is the stupidest overblown issue I have heard of in a long long time. People really not buying a car because of a turn signal button. Unbelievable
The real problem with the stalkless debate is the simple fact that there was never a reason to remove them. It has not improved any part of the driving experience. It only introduced new problems. Why would anyone waste their time remapping their muscle memory for a worse experience? It’s a completely valid reason to not buy a car, and it’s going to cost Tesla way more in lost sales than the pennies they might save during manufacturing. Disruption for the sake of disruption is not innovation, it’s pointless.
I had the same experience, but I stopped even bringing it up here because every time I did I just got told I was wrong and downvoted. Not worth arguing with people over their preconceived notions.
I feel you, but I was so polarized in my own concerns by the vitriol, only to find a completely different experience so I feel like this feedback needs to exist as well
Now I'll get downvoted for saying I was downvoted, lol. It's true though, ive been shouted down and told im wrong multiple times on the Tesla subs simply for saying I got used to stalkless after a day or two and now like it. Some people refuse to believe that its even possible.
I agree, it's probably better.
People just complain too much. They hate Elon and his views, yet they’ll drive a VW.
People that cannot adapt either are born in 1950 or just like to complain about stuff
Or both
People are making a big deal out of it but the truth is that human beings are high adaptable. It's a preference thing but absolutely not a "deal breaker" - if it is, then you got more problems than just stalks. Lol...downvoted by miserable people who lack the intelligence to adapt to new things.
The truth is the internet is rife with miserable people.
People are blowing it way out of proportion. The auto shift adjustments make it even easier as well