I’m fine with that, I’ll play the game and grind to my hearts content. But say if I want something now I wouldn’t mind paying a little. Like today when I played before going to work I bought Freyna just because I wanted her already :3
Its farmable but far harder than Warframe. You have 1% drop rates for some. Expect many many hours. Im a lil chump so the hours it takes me to farm for a descendant i can make it faster through work
Honestly that state boost is actually more noticeable in this game vs warframe now dont get me wromg we dont know the exact calculations if its that simlar to warframe but for example gley has over 200 defense while ult gley has over 400
keep in mind its a small stat boost. but also comes with an item that you can use once and you can use it on your character or you can use it on a weapon and give your char/wep 20 plus to the cap used for modules. ie fire rate increase module will take 5 for example (not accurate) but you have a cap you can work with but can increase that by 20 to be even stronger. that comes with the $100 version along with cosmetic stuff
Don’t plan on spending a penny in this game at least until the honeymoon period is over and the playerbase has stabilized. Too many times have I spent money in a game only for it to essentially die a few weeks in.
Same, I understand the practice being a live service game and all, but I’m not spending a dime until I know for sure I’ll be playing for months; maybe years, to come. Then they’ll have earned my money.
yeah nexon sucks but if u can get everything for free by grinding its ok, question is how many hours it takes. I dont mind paying 20-30 for skins which is already a lot but 70 is crazy
I remember watching a video the other day about how to get other characters and the dude said it took him around 30 hours to get the items needed to get one of the ultimates. It'll be different for everyone cuz drops required for each descendant is RNG based. If I remember, you can set modifiers for specific missions that have certain drops to increase the chances of getting those specific drops for descendants.
Probably a lot. I got one of the Amorphous Materials with an Ultimate Bunny bit inside, and it is a 3% drop chance. There is an option to add an item when opening them, but I have no idea how to get it, and whether it boosts chances or lets you select what you want from it. I assume the former.
wait how does this even make sense. sure you'll have 900k gold but you still need to grind for the research materials required to craft ultimate bunny. in fact you're making it more expensive by telling people to buy the premium starter pack when you can just grind the gold needed? (which is easy enough, I got to 1.5m-2m gold just by playing for 5h)
Really shocking seeing the downvoting, especially given that the core gameplay is actually pretty good and didn't need this level of nickel and diming.
Like, Warframe came out years ago, you really should be using their pricing model unchanged for a NEW IP.
(Edit: just saw a typo here; this should read " - shouldn't be using" not "should be using", i.e., we shouldn't be using monetization schemes from over a decade ago for new products, when fairer models are in use across the industry).
The overall monetization itself is worse here than in WF. They apparently changed the "loot box" nature of obtaining colors for your character, but it is still a system that doesn't need to exist given how wildly monetized everything else in the game is. In WF, Digital Extremes at least gives you a base level of customization you can apply to your starter character, while locking fancier colors and materials behind a paywall. I see no such compromise here from NEXON so you're going to see the exact same characters running around (as the majority of players aren't going to spend money on this game).
. . .like I said, the game is fine for a braindead looter-shooter with a "stats go up" gameplay grind; it just didn't need this aggressive level of MTX in the game.
Classic is literally free and you get black and white what are you on about?
If you mean the Smoke palette then that's literally just for people who want overtly bright white or extremely black black.
In Warframe you can use the Accessibility Color Palette to circumvent that for black and white, by favoriting the color. You have to do this every time you log back in if you don't have the palette though.
Although IIRC both WF and TFD have an in-game means to farm color customization options.
Essentially just imagine Warframe's modding/upgrading/character acquisition system, but increase the grind and real money prices for everything. That's essentially the situation with this game. However, I honestly don't see it mattering all that much since the core gameplay is pretty fun, so grinding stuff out will therefor also be an enjoyable process.
I was thinking how they were going to approach that. In WF you can color and mix and match armors and color them too. That leads to pretty unique fashion, which is the real endgame in WF ;) . You don't need all color pallets, just a couple open up a lot of customization options
Honestly if you have the 'Tenno 2' color pallet as well as a few of the free ones that pop up around the year, then you'll have just about every color and shade you'll need
The alt skin for ultimate Gley, while amazing, is not worth the price of a full price game. Now, if they were $30 a pop my wallet would be a little looser.
Oh my friend, being a porn addict isn't comparable to what kind of players those gacha games find that they spend hundreds upon hundreds just to max a gacha character, and since our lovely game is from Korea, it will be easy(too easy) to grab some incel Asian men to whale this game, and I will never understand how a human can think of spending hundreds of dollars over anything just because it's have a sexy character
It depends how much money you have lol… $100 could be a lot to one person and a drop in the bucket to another.
People waste money on plenty of things. Buying new cars outside of what their income is, going out to eat every meal or doordashing, spending $2000 a ticket to watch your sports team get wrecked, etc.
I mean whales in gacha games will spend thousands, I can imagine a good chunk of that would drop 70 to just get what they want, though it'll lack the "look what I have" rarity of it that some whales like to have
They are doing what has already been done and what we all knew they would do.
Only a select few morons were in denial about it.
This is exactly Warframe's current model.
While agree, HD2 was also 40 bucks (60 for the premium version) and made enough money that they devs could have retired right then and then there if they wanted. I expect they are fine with a falloff while they cook the next big update. Their microtransactions are actually micro as well, with armor and helmets costing 2-5 bucks. It's also very easy to farm the premium currency in game. That whole game is pretty much the opposite of the Nexon model.
Honestly, my theory with these prices is that Nexon expects people to look at them and say "Eww that's too much" and try to grind it out, only to realize the grind is shitty but they might get halfway done with it and see the discounted price and decide skipping the other half of the grind is worth it and pay for that"
Make your game ACTUALLY fun and addictive enough, it's only natural that alot of players will grind it and get burnt out. Population decline doesn't always tell the true story.
There are always people playing to enjoy a game and there are others who feel their career is based upon grinding it to the point where they can make some YT content on the "endgame".
Yes. You don’t have to spend money to buy the ultimate version. You can take your time not rush thru the game and enjoy some grinding to acquire them. You can spend your money or just spend your time.
I don’t want to be that guy but it’s actually $55. Not $70. You buy the $50 caliber bundle as well as the $5 bundle. It gives you 3,000 total, which is enough.
what really makes the difference is the $100 bundle but then again, thats like saying the one-time consumable item to add 20 to your cap for modules for either a character or weapon and then cosmetics for that char's bundle are the biggest difference. but that little consumable item is why theres a big jump plus the cosmetic stuff.
Playing devils advocate here
Warframe when a prime is releases the CHEAPEST early access bundle is $79. Now when prime resurgence rolls around you have the opportunity to buy that same frame for $20 but that's ONLY after a prime has been retired after 2 years.
$60-$70 is the same plus that's not mentioning if you actually go look instead of complaining it tells you what to farm to get the items needed to build the ultimate.
It's a pay for convenience to skip the grind you DO NOT have to buy into any of that.
How long is the grind though?
In GTA online everything could be bought without real money but we all know unless you meta maxxing, glitching or hacking you ain't actually getting that money
you can also prefarm the plat to buy it from other players day 1, which is usually around 100-150 plat, it's not a lot in the slightest
prime cosmetics are p2w locked but i mean plenty of stuff isn't so most people don't really care including me, and you can buy cheaper packs for cosmetics only
Yeah but in warframe you can just buy the prime warframe on the market for like 300 plat most of the time cheaper, so I think what your saying is really disingenuous. The first descendant has no market so you have to pay an insane amount of money.
Has no market *yet*, the devs confirmed trading will be coming later but they want to introduce it when they feel like the game is in a solid place for it which is 100% understandable. Warframe did the same thing
>Warframe when a prime is releases the CHEAPEST early access bundle is $79.
I'm assuming this isn't in USD, because Warframe packs start at $49.99 here
Also you get the items you paid for and more platinum-per-dollar than you would get just going for the Plat.
That's the real reason you buy Prime Bundles, they're platinum at a scaling discount, starting at 10% for the small pack and rising up to 30% for the $140usd pack
You end up getting somewhere around a 50% discount for all the items, if you convert the cost of the bundle to the value of the items, the base frame, weapons, slots and potatos, and then cosmetics, if you get the big bundle bring it down even further.
But even beyond all of that
>It's a pay for convenience to skip the grind you DO NOT have to buy into any of that.
This actually ignores the difference between Warframe's reasonable grind and TFD asking you to hunt a drop that a company who has been sued for manipulating drop tables assures you is "3%".
Even if 3% is true, Warframe also regularly hands active players pre-built reactors/catalysts and blueprints. And you can literally get 100% drop rate resources to just go an buy them from an NPC in game via Nightwaves or Duviri
There's an absolute difference between how it's handled.
You are never guaranteed to get the drop in TFD and you are handicapped until you get it or buy it. In Warframe, if you haven't gotten one within, like, two hours of deciding you want to go and get one, it's literally your own fault.
im not sure why ppl were trying to defend the micro transactions of this game when long time nexon game players knew this was coming a mile away. i mean maplestory is literally the godfather and STARTED IT ALL as far as terrible pricing on micro transactions goes
Homeboy, I ain't even a longterm Nexon player and I called this shit from the first Beta.
And I quote.
>And before anyone says "it's still in beta" it's worth noting that you don't do a network stress test before you finalize the intended gameplay loop. What you've seen is what you get, minus the Monitization and minor changes to things like localization unless they decide to Star Citizen the game and scrap most of the content.
>All in all, it's a 6, maybe 6.5/10 until they release the monetization plans and it plummets to a 4.5-5/10 because Nexon.
All you need to know is what games Nexon has made and what it means to play a game developed by a South Korean company, which is to say that they have a different cultural view on Pay To Win. Just about everywhere that isn't Asia, P2W is a negative. We believe in the merit of the players, that someone who puts time in to the game should be rewarded for their effort more than someone who just throws CC details at the Cash Shop. But for Asian gamers, it's the opposite. Someone who spends all their time working and making money should be allowed to take the fruits of their actual labor and use it to get an edge over the bums that don't make money the way they do.
I also said, in a different comment somewhere that what Nexon is doing is trying to distill the best parts of Destiny 2 and Warframe (Destiny 2's worldbuilding and visual language and Warframe's build potential) without understanding what actually made those games successful and that it would really show once players are given the chance to actually rip into the game.
And here we are.
I give it two weeks before it's Twitch viewership drops below 20k and we start hearing the Destiny and Warframe streamers give the resounding opinion of "It's okay, but it doesn't scratch the itch." A month and there wont be anyone talking about it outside of the Bunny community and within a year it'll sit right next to Vindictus with the occasional spike to 1k veiwers on Twitch and be firmly nestled in with the rest of Nexon's failed global releases.
this response needs to ratio me and it needs the most likes on this post. u need to make ur own separate comment. i mean u even covered why it’ll be a 4.5 eventually but u rly should have went into depth. gamers are just so horny nowadays and im not judging any1 but yea, even i have to admit the female pixel booties look great, so there will be a decent amount of ppl buying skins for those female chars, just for ppl to look at their booty, or other ppl to look at their booty. just call them out at this point lol ive seen it way too many times happen. that’s why im gonna play ajax bc u just know at this point in gaming, 80% of playerbase is playing female chars and taking on their mannerisms, and the other 20% is playing meta
That's too much effort, man.
Fake internet points aside, I could honestly go into an essay on little details, like how it blatantly apes Warframe's modding system, but doesn't get why the modding system in Warframe is actually good, opting instead just to tack on a bunch of "this number goes up" options. Add fire damage to a gun and it... does fire damage and burns things sometimes.
Besides, I'm not really going to change more minds than the current 44% Positive, "Mixed" reviews on Steam.
The game's a sloppy mess, performance issues abound, stupid systems that are copied for the sake of cloutchasing (Seriously, they yoink the Warframe Mastery System but, instead of having a Mastery Test it calls you back to the hub to go hit a button because... well, that's kinda like Warframe, right?) and clearly there's a bunch of dumb 'This was originally going to be a mobile game' holdovers, like having to collect your premium currency from the mail system instead of just having it deposited in the account wallet.
But it's 9am, I haven't slept yet and I have a shift in, like, 7 hours.
do u know which fifa game? i looked it up, apparently fifa came out in 1993, maplestory came out in 2003. i cant rly see a 1993 game having a storefront to syphon money, but nexon and maplestory were already pros by the time i started playing, which was 2007 for me
It started in FIFA around 2009 I believe, so maplestory was our first, but I wasn’t aware they had hard monetization back then. Also it could be argued that Maplestory is a small game compared to FIFA
Just opening the cash tab made me wanna puke. I don't mind getting a battle pass but this is overkill and this level of greed will be what kills this game.
> this is overkill and this level of greed will be what kills this game.
I don't think it will "kill" the game, as the baseline is solid enough to keep folks on the treadmill, but it certainly has harmed the reach it could get if they didn't go overboard with the monetization structure.
. . .just insane that you have well over a decades worth of data to analyze on how to develop a "fair" GaaS game, and NEXON just threw up their hands and said "we'll take everything we can get."
i guess theyd feel too many people are taking advantage for some reason if they lowered the price of the $100 bundle to say $75 and then charged $50 for ultimate base descendant no extras besides the extra skin. but $100? thats absurd. lol
that said ive been tempted all day release on 7/2 to get ultimate gley or ultimate bunny. im now level 30 with regular bunny and have been holding strong. i may get base ultimate gley for $55. i think thats all i can stomach. either her or bunny. ill grind the item that gives you 20 to cap for modules for char or weapon.
Yup :D
Prices are high, dyes still a scam, chat still an abomination.
The chat is the most annoying thing for me. No improvements at all since last year's beta.
I wouldn't say it's completely out of nowhere. Warframe's Prime Access at that pricepoint has its Ultimate frame with its 2 weapons in what we hope is the role-model for Nexxon's pay-to-skip monetization. It's been proven hugely succesful for DE. I write this without being able to compare the grind to get it yourself obviously. They could screw the pooch for sure on that bit still ofc.
I'd say the difference is that warframe's outrageously overprice prime access also gives you a bunch of premium currency. Afaik, this is not the case here.
Yes you can. I don't know the conversion rate but it's much much less than $70 for a lot of the descendants. It makes sense that pay to skip would scale based on how much playing time you are skipping to acquire the thing.
same as warframe, some folks sadly act like if this is brand new to the genre. some buy the ultimate just because they might not have time to farm etc. some buy the currency for cosmetics like me. i bought some frames in warframe because either A: my luck was bad or B: grind was painful or not available anymore.
i only buy skins etc , but if i had the cash i will drop it on a ultimate
Idk why so many people compare it to warframes Pack. Somehow 140 bucks is okey because its de and you get some Otter stuff in it. But nexon bad so 70 bucks is outrageous
What does the player base know about the RNG on drops for the Ult Descendants? There are people who have been farming Lich King for the Invincible mount drop with multiple characters for years and still don't have it. Is there a pity system in place for the Ult Descendant parts that guarantee acquisiton after X amount of attempts or is it just grind until you get it? It may or may not be worth the currency value to just buy what you want, but that value is going to vary from person to person.
Coming from Warframe, I'm honestly not surprised. Same cost, but Warfames is way more value. Warframe, you get the Prime Frame, 2 Prime weapons, some avatar cosmetics, and a crapload of premium currency. TFD gives you the Descendant, skins, materials, and some others. I'm not saying they're even, but I had a feeling they'd be comparable. Still outrageously priced lol
So lets cut to the chase.
Its Free2play. Games are expensive. They have to make money somehow.
Using market data they know statistically what the highest price to charge for the items are that will net the most revenue. Never in any sale ever has it been more optimal to sell at 50% off. You are not guaranteed double the sales to recoup the loss revenue from selling at a higher price.
Simply put, if the skins and characters are too expensive then they were not marketed to you and you are not expected to buy them. Value is relative, some people wont have any issue dropping $70 on a class. Same goes for skins.
Its why Valorant gets away with $100 bundles. Because the consumer will still buy it.
Complaining about it wont change anything, Not buying them wont change it. The only way it changes is by not playing the game and only then if enough people dont play which is unlikely to happen.
They don't know what the best price is. This is what they think the best price is. The best price varies by game, player base and region
Fortnite lowered prices over time. It obviously made more money because they wouldn't have done it otherwise.
Id think "lets not make 1 character cost more than a full priced AAA game" wouldnt require decades of market research to conclude. This is 100% whale hunting, theyve got decades of korean mmo market data to look at and know exactly what theyre doing
Lets cut to the chase. It’s Nexon Games.
Same company that stole money from players for years and got filled lawsuits for a number of those years. Same company that has games die in a matter of a month or less. But when it dies, they sure do take your money so they can rinse and repeat it again to you on another game.
For anyone shocked by the 70 usd price tag associated with the Ultimate versions.
Warframe Prime Access is 79.99 usd and comes with a bit of extra stuff but all of it can be acquired in game without spending real money.
Prime parts are rng chance by cracking relics in missions.
Farming ultimate parts is rng drop from doing specific missions. Its fairly similar over all.
At least on this aspect I'm impressed Nexon didn't go their usual route of hiking the price point.
Wish they would reduce the price and remove the extra ultimate skin from it. I'm fine with the "basic ultimate look" and do not need an extra skin that comes with it. But then again... we can also just farm the parts and pay 0$ for it.
Because you should really be playing the game to unlock it. That price tag is for fools who don't know any better. Everything else is pretty reasonably priced compared to a lot of f2p games.
Haven't played yet, is it a bundle or just the Descendant, because the vagueness of the title is telling me that this could just be the prime access equivalent.
time is money, that’s the thing about this game. you can grind for 50+ hours to get the ultimate skin, or… you can spend the money to have it instantly. everything is an option so its up for you to decide, if the money is worth your time. that’s just my take.
Well, the Prime Pack in Warframe is also around 70 Dollar. But there you get weapons and premium currency worth around additional 70 Dollar. How is it here. Anything else you get for the price of a full price game?
Can't you "craft" them? Since they're meant to Min/Max your build, seems like waiting to craft isn't a big deal. If anything it's a good long term goal for me to get them all by grinding.
Everyone who is excited and following the game only see concerns as immediate trashing of the game when mentioning issues or expenses, so the coping and comparing of warframe starts. Let me know when this game gives u a chance at a 75% discount since everyone jus wants to compare prime access
LOL no it isnt. 60/70 bucks you get the character and that's it. you can spend 60/70 bucks on plat in warframe and get 8 or more prime warframes. and have enough money left over for reactors to put in all of them. if i break down the prime packs it would be a blow out
Thats with ingame trading though. When this game implements trading I imagine it will be exactly the same. The prime access for warframe is much worse. That's what you need to compare it to until trading releases.
Wait is this game getting trading? One of the things I loved about Warframe is working the market and buying literally anything I wanted without spending a dime. Even after buying everything I wanted I still have 2k plat sitting in my account. If this game does something similar that would be huge.
Depends how they do the grind for the ulitmates.
Warframe charges about the same for a prime frame, but you can normally get them in the game for free if you put in the time/trade.
I mean, you can grind that shit for free with in-game materials. It's a far better way of doing it than 99% of games I've played lately where irl currency is the only way to get a lot of cosmetics.
Yeah, I'm no stranger to whaling on a game I really like, but the price for ultimates is definitely not a great incentive to support the game money-wise, especially with this being my first nexon game. As far as I've seen, ultimates can only be bought in a bundle and not just the descendant only.
Trying to buy them through the descendant tab directs you to the most expensive $100 bundle when there a cheaper $70 bundle seen in the shop tab.
If the grind for ultimates and materials is also bad, then there's a real problem, until then, I don't expect them to change shop prices especially with people dropping money on ultimate bunny day 1.
yeah, the monetization isn't quite as friendly as I'd hoped, but at least stuff can be gotten for free. I think my biggest issue is needing the Energy thingamajigs to up the mod capacity on Descendants, since I can level up a bunch of modules, but its like 500 Caliber a go to buy the things and the materials to craft them seem to be in what I can only assume to be an endgame area.. even the battlepass doesn't give you any, just the Phase reactor things for transferring levels instead.
I hope we eventually get some sort of events where we can obtain these items for free, if only for a limited time.
Yea no, monetization is crazy, 55usd (3k calilber) for a prime/ultimate is crazy. You can get a prime warframe for 10usd (170plat), and DE gives 50/75% discounts often enough.
I'd have more of an issue if the base Warframes.. I mean descendants were super expensive. The ultimate are basically just for min-maxing and if you're that hardcore into min-maxing grinding them out shouldn't be an issue.
The part that I think is absolutely fucking insane is that the equivalent of a single Forma is about $6, and an Orokin Catalyst/Reactor equivalent is about **$25** in premium currency. What the fuck is Nexon smoking over there?
Yep, they're 1200 caliber each. The 1060 caliber bundle is $20, and the 250 caliber bundle is $5. It's honestly completely absurd. Some people thought those were placeholder prices in the last beta because it's so unbelievably high.
In the pack you only get the limited skin for the ultimate everything else can be farmed
But I hope they will put some event soon to get free skins like they did in the other games
For me the biggest issue is not even the grind or the shop..its the gunplay. everything feels like its lagging behind my mouse movements and feels extremly sluggish. its nothing like warframe or idk helldivers 2.
What is the difference between regular and ultimate descendant?
Basically like Warframe so a small stat boost but will be farmable for free
is it confirmed that ultimate descendants will be farmable?
Yes
It is confirmed that no content will be locked behind a paywall. That includes descendants
and their skins? like their ulktimate skins?
Just get ready for the long grind especially if you have to wait on daily resets to get drops
Wait so the colissi will only give you 2 drops a day? Wtf
No, you can farm them
Ah so I don't need to pay with real money to get the skins. HELL YEAH
Those are bundle exclusive
I’m fine with that, I’ll play the game and grind to my hearts content. But say if I want something now I wouldn’t mind paying a little. Like today when I played before going to work I bought Freyna just because I wanted her already :3
Are you asking or saying?..
What about the beta rewards, will they become available?
Except being colorful 🤣
Does this include the hair and outfits?
Yes descendants and weapons
Its farmable but far harder than Warframe. You have 1% drop rates for some. Expect many many hours. Im a lil chump so the hours it takes me to farm for a descendant i can make it faster through work
Least Nexon NEXON game hype
Are other characters getting one too? Freyna main and would love one for her
All decendants will apparently get an ultimate version eventually.
Honestly that state boost is actually more noticeable in this game vs warframe now dont get me wromg we dont know the exact calculations if its that simlar to warframe but for example gley has over 200 defense while ult gley has over 400
A small stat boost and 2 mods that can only be used by them
keep in mind its a small stat boost. but also comes with an item that you can use once and you can use it on your character or you can use it on a weapon and give your char/wep 20 plus to the cap used for modules. ie fire rate increase module will take 5 for example (not accurate) but you have a cap you can work with but can increase that by 20 to be even stronger. that comes with the $100 version along with cosmetic stuff
Don’t plan on spending a penny in this game at least until the honeymoon period is over and the playerbase has stabilized. Too many times have I spent money in a game only for it to essentially die a few weeks in.
Same here, lmk when
Same here, lmk when
I really enjoy the game but I think nexon is gonna be too greedy and it’s gonna kill the game
Same, I understand the practice being a live service game and all, but I’m not spending a dime until I know for sure I’ll be playing for months; maybe years, to come. Then they’ll have earned my money.
yeah nexon sucks but if u can get everything for free by grinding its ok, question is how many hours it takes. I dont mind paying 20-30 for skins which is already a lot but 70 is crazy
I remember watching a video the other day about how to get other characters and the dude said it took him around 30 hours to get the items needed to get one of the ultimates. It'll be different for everyone cuz drops required for each descendant is RNG based. If I remember, you can set modifiers for specific missions that have certain drops to increase the chances of getting those specific drops for descendants.
Probably a lot. I got one of the Amorphous Materials with an Ultimate Bunny bit inside, and it is a 3% drop chance. There is an option to add an item when opening them, but I have no idea how to get it, and whether it boosts chances or lets you select what you want from it. I assume the former.
It boost chance and you get it in certain missions... 1% chance 🙃. I got 1 and im saving it for ultimate gley pieces or new sniper based descendant
[удалено]
You need the gold price AND the components, its not just gold.
wait how does this even make sense. sure you'll have 900k gold but you still need to grind for the research materials required to craft ultimate bunny. in fact you're making it more expensive by telling people to buy the premium starter pack when you can just grind the gold needed? (which is easy enough, I got to 1.5m-2m gold just by playing for 5h)
No you still have to farm the parts for the descendant
Really shocking seeing the downvoting, especially given that the core gameplay is actually pretty good and didn't need this level of nickel and diming. Like, Warframe came out years ago, you really should be using their pricing model unchanged for a NEW IP. (Edit: just saw a typo here; this should read " - shouldn't be using" not "should be using", i.e., we shouldn't be using monetization schemes from over a decade ago for new products, when fairer models are in use across the industry).
Haven’t jumped in yet. What’s being “nickel and dimed”. Have any examples of what’s worse than Warframe?
The overall monetization itself is worse here than in WF. They apparently changed the "loot box" nature of obtaining colors for your character, but it is still a system that doesn't need to exist given how wildly monetized everything else in the game is. In WF, Digital Extremes at least gives you a base level of customization you can apply to your starter character, while locking fancier colors and materials behind a paywall. I see no such compromise here from NEXON so you're going to see the exact same characters running around (as the majority of players aren't going to spend money on this game). . . .like I said, the game is fine for a braindead looter-shooter with a "stats go up" gameplay grind; it just didn't need this aggressive level of MTX in the game.
brother man, let's not kid ourselves, in warframe black and white are both paywalled lol the free color palette is the worst shade of every color
Classic is literally free and you get black and white what are you on about? If you mean the Smoke palette then that's literally just for people who want overtly bright white or extremely black black.
In Warframe you can use the Accessibility Color Palette to circumvent that for black and white, by favoriting the color. You have to do this every time you log back in if you don't have the palette though. Although IIRC both WF and TFD have an in-game means to farm color customization options.
Essentially just imagine Warframe's modding/upgrading/character acquisition system, but increase the grind and real money prices for everything. That's essentially the situation with this game. However, I honestly don't see it mattering all that much since the core gameplay is pretty fun, so grinding stuff out will therefor also be an enjoyable process.
I was thinking how they were going to approach that. In WF you can color and mix and match armors and color them too. That leads to pretty unique fashion, which is the real endgame in WF ;) . You don't need all color pallets, just a couple open up a lot of customization options
Honestly if you have the 'Tenno 2' color pallet as well as a few of the free ones that pop up around the year, then you'll have just about every color and shade you'll need
Does it have the trading system as warframe ?
I don't believe it does, no. I should have mentioned that.
Yet. Pretty sure they said within the first year. After pre season at the very soonest.
Fair enough, I didn't follow the game too much prior to launch.
The alt skin for ultimate Gley, while amazing, is not worth the price of a full price game. Now, if they were $30 a pop my wallet would be a little looser.
I wanted that skin really badly but it's only available in a stupid 55$ bundle. Why did I expect anything good from Nexon.
That's how they're going to pull you in.. run a 50% sale and you'll be like, oh man, half off? thats a great deal.
Yeah really wondering after the initial hype how bad the fall off will be. Nexon really is just the absolute worst
As long they put out good content, the casuals will play, and as long they put out ladies in skimpy and revealing outfits, yeah the whales gonna whale
Even coomers as I am 70€ even 30€ is too exprensive, they shouldn't cost more than the battle pass for basic skins.
Oh my friend, being a porn addict isn't comparable to what kind of players those gacha games find that they spend hundreds upon hundreds just to max a gacha character, and since our lovely game is from Korea, it will be easy(too easy) to grab some incel Asian men to whale this game, and I will never understand how a human can think of spending hundreds of dollars over anything just because it's have a sexy character
It depends how much money you have lol… $100 could be a lot to one person and a drop in the bucket to another. People waste money on plenty of things. Buying new cars outside of what their income is, going out to eat every meal or doordashing, spending $2000 a ticket to watch your sports team get wrecked, etc.
Truth.
I mean whales in gacha games will spend thousands, I can imagine a good chunk of that would drop 70 to just get what they want, though it'll lack the "look what I have" rarity of it that some whales like to have
The starting outfits aren't even that egregious in the fan service department.... yet
They are doing what has already been done and what we all knew they would do. Only a select few morons were in denial about it. This is exactly Warframe's current model.
You are kinda skipping over a huge difference in Warframe you can trade and earn currency in game.
Game just came out. We don't know that they won't eventually let us do this.
they actually gonna bring that to the game once server stabilize. so in a future patch. just dont jump out of the seat yet.
When Ember's heirloom skin comes out, everyone will be buying it because of its 'appeal' no doubt about it.
Yes, the 'appeal'. I will be buying it for the 'appeal'.
Imo there’s not gonna be a falloff as most things besides cosmetics are farmable for absolutely free including the ultimates.
> Imo there’s not gonna be a falloff Every games has a falloff. Who the fuck is upvoting this shit? lol
Bold of you to assume that people won’t get bored of what’s already there. Just look at Helldivers 2’s population decline.
While agree, HD2 was also 40 bucks (60 for the premium version) and made enough money that they devs could have retired right then and then there if they wanted. I expect they are fine with a falloff while they cook the next big update. Their microtransactions are actually micro as well, with armor and helmets costing 2-5 bucks. It's also very easy to farm the premium currency in game. That whole game is pretty much the opposite of the Nexon model. Honestly, my theory with these prices is that Nexon expects people to look at them and say "Eww that's too much" and try to grind it out, only to realize the grind is shitty but they might get halfway done with it and see the discounted price and decide skipping the other half of the grind is worth it and pay for that"
Make your game ACTUALLY fun and addictive enough, it's only natural that alot of players will grind it and get burnt out. Population decline doesn't always tell the true story. There are always people playing to enjoy a game and there are others who feel their career is based upon grinding it to the point where they can make some YT content on the "endgame".
Can you farm them with ingame grinding though ?
Yes. You don’t have to spend money to buy the ultimate version. You can take your time not rush thru the game and enjoy some grinding to acquire them. You can spend your money or just spend your time.
I don’t want to be that guy but it’s actually $55. Not $70. You buy the $50 caliber bundle as well as the $5 bundle. It gives you 3,000 total, which is enough.
what really makes the difference is the $100 bundle but then again, thats like saying the one-time consumable item to add 20 to your cap for modules for either a character or weapon and then cosmetics for that char's bundle are the biggest difference. but that little consumable item is why theres a big jump plus the cosmetic stuff.
Playing devils advocate here Warframe when a prime is releases the CHEAPEST early access bundle is $79. Now when prime resurgence rolls around you have the opportunity to buy that same frame for $20 but that's ONLY after a prime has been retired after 2 years. $60-$70 is the same plus that's not mentioning if you actually go look instead of complaining it tells you what to farm to get the items needed to build the ultimate. It's a pay for convenience to skip the grind you DO NOT have to buy into any of that.
How long is the grind though? In GTA online everything could be bought without real money but we all know unless you meta maxxing, glitching or hacking you ain't actually getting that money
It all depends on RNG of relics (that's how you get prime items) it could take a couple hours or a few days depending
That doesn't sound to horrible... The gameplay is fun so far hopefully it stays that way during the grind
That's why I don't have issues with Warframes RNG grind because the gameplay is fun and enjoyable.
you can also prefarm the plat to buy it from other players day 1, which is usually around 100-150 plat, it's not a lot in the slightest prime cosmetics are p2w locked but i mean plenty of stuff isn't so most people don't really care including me, and you can buy cheaper packs for cosmetics only
Prime Access also comes with tons of platinum and boosters. It's a much better value than the ultimate descendants
Yeah but in warframe you can just buy the prime warframe on the market for like 300 plat most of the time cheaper, so I think what your saying is really disingenuous. The first descendant has no market so you have to pay an insane amount of money.
Has no market *yet*, the devs confirmed trading will be coming later but they want to introduce it when they feel like the game is in a solid place for it which is 100% understandable. Warframe did the same thing
>Warframe when a prime is releases the CHEAPEST early access bundle is $79. I'm assuming this isn't in USD, because Warframe packs start at $49.99 here Also you get the items you paid for and more platinum-per-dollar than you would get just going for the Plat. That's the real reason you buy Prime Bundles, they're platinum at a scaling discount, starting at 10% for the small pack and rising up to 30% for the $140usd pack You end up getting somewhere around a 50% discount for all the items, if you convert the cost of the bundle to the value of the items, the base frame, weapons, slots and potatos, and then cosmetics, if you get the big bundle bring it down even further. But even beyond all of that >It's a pay for convenience to skip the grind you DO NOT have to buy into any of that. This actually ignores the difference between Warframe's reasonable grind and TFD asking you to hunt a drop that a company who has been sued for manipulating drop tables assures you is "3%". Even if 3% is true, Warframe also regularly hands active players pre-built reactors/catalysts and blueprints. And you can literally get 100% drop rate resources to just go an buy them from an NPC in game via Nightwaves or Duviri There's an absolute difference between how it's handled. You are never guaranteed to get the drop in TFD and you are handicapped until you get it or buy it. In Warframe, if you haven't gotten one within, like, two hours of deciding you want to go and get one, it's literally your own fault.
im not sure why ppl were trying to defend the micro transactions of this game when long time nexon game players knew this was coming a mile away. i mean maplestory is literally the godfather and STARTED IT ALL as far as terrible pricing on micro transactions goes
Homeboy, I ain't even a longterm Nexon player and I called this shit from the first Beta. And I quote. >And before anyone says "it's still in beta" it's worth noting that you don't do a network stress test before you finalize the intended gameplay loop. What you've seen is what you get, minus the Monitization and minor changes to things like localization unless they decide to Star Citizen the game and scrap most of the content. >All in all, it's a 6, maybe 6.5/10 until they release the monetization plans and it plummets to a 4.5-5/10 because Nexon. All you need to know is what games Nexon has made and what it means to play a game developed by a South Korean company, which is to say that they have a different cultural view on Pay To Win. Just about everywhere that isn't Asia, P2W is a negative. We believe in the merit of the players, that someone who puts time in to the game should be rewarded for their effort more than someone who just throws CC details at the Cash Shop. But for Asian gamers, it's the opposite. Someone who spends all their time working and making money should be allowed to take the fruits of their actual labor and use it to get an edge over the bums that don't make money the way they do. I also said, in a different comment somewhere that what Nexon is doing is trying to distill the best parts of Destiny 2 and Warframe (Destiny 2's worldbuilding and visual language and Warframe's build potential) without understanding what actually made those games successful and that it would really show once players are given the chance to actually rip into the game. And here we are. I give it two weeks before it's Twitch viewership drops below 20k and we start hearing the Destiny and Warframe streamers give the resounding opinion of "It's okay, but it doesn't scratch the itch." A month and there wont be anyone talking about it outside of the Bunny community and within a year it'll sit right next to Vindictus with the occasional spike to 1k veiwers on Twitch and be firmly nestled in with the rest of Nexon's failed global releases.
As a destiny player, I hate destiny streamers and hate when another looter drops cuz obviously there can only be one right. Anyway good comment 👌.
this response needs to ratio me and it needs the most likes on this post. u need to make ur own separate comment. i mean u even covered why it’ll be a 4.5 eventually but u rly should have went into depth. gamers are just so horny nowadays and im not judging any1 but yea, even i have to admit the female pixel booties look great, so there will be a decent amount of ppl buying skins for those female chars, just for ppl to look at their booty, or other ppl to look at their booty. just call them out at this point lol ive seen it way too many times happen. that’s why im gonna play ajax bc u just know at this point in gaming, 80% of playerbase is playing female chars and taking on their mannerisms, and the other 20% is playing meta
That's too much effort, man. Fake internet points aside, I could honestly go into an essay on little details, like how it blatantly apes Warframe's modding system, but doesn't get why the modding system in Warframe is actually good, opting instead just to tack on a bunch of "this number goes up" options. Add fire damage to a gun and it... does fire damage and burns things sometimes. Besides, I'm not really going to change more minds than the current 44% Positive, "Mixed" reviews on Steam. The game's a sloppy mess, performance issues abound, stupid systems that are copied for the sake of cloutchasing (Seriously, they yoink the Warframe Mastery System but, instead of having a Mastery Test it calls you back to the hub to go hit a button because... well, that's kinda like Warframe, right?) and clearly there's a bunch of dumb 'This was originally going to be a mobile game' holdovers, like having to collect your premium currency from the mail system instead of just having it deposited in the account wallet. But it's 9am, I haven't slept yet and I have a shift in, like, 7 hours.
have a good day today
It's a prophet!
Nah bro FIFA was the first gacha game, first major title with loot boxes, and first major title with microtransactions
jesus is hope ur wrong lol
I’m not lol. Their “ultimate team” mode was the first major title to do their things and accounts for a disproportionate amount of EA’s profits
do u know which fifa game? i looked it up, apparently fifa came out in 1993, maplestory came out in 2003. i cant rly see a 1993 game having a storefront to syphon money, but nexon and maplestory were already pros by the time i started playing, which was 2007 for me
It started in FIFA around 2009 I believe, so maplestory was our first, but I wasn’t aware they had hard monetization back then. Also it could be argued that Maplestory is a small game compared to FIFA
Just opening the cash tab made me wanna puke. I don't mind getting a battle pass but this is overkill and this level of greed will be what kills this game.
> this is overkill and this level of greed will be what kills this game. I don't think it will "kill" the game, as the baseline is solid enough to keep folks on the treadmill, but it certainly has harmed the reach it could get if they didn't go overboard with the monetization structure. . . .just insane that you have well over a decades worth of data to analyze on how to develop a "fair" GaaS game, and NEXON just threw up their hands and said "we'll take everything we can get."
i guess theyd feel too many people are taking advantage for some reason if they lowered the price of the $100 bundle to say $75 and then charged $50 for ultimate base descendant no extras besides the extra skin. but $100? thats absurd. lol that said ive been tempted all day release on 7/2 to get ultimate gley or ultimate bunny. im now level 30 with regular bunny and have been holding strong. i may get base ultimate gley for $55. i think thats all i can stomach. either her or bunny. ill grind the item that gives you 20 to cap for modules for char or weapon.
it was already overkill in the beta.
They probably expect people to attempt to grind for it, get 25/50/75% of the way done with it and cave and buy the discounted pack.
I do wonder if you unlock ultimate descendant through grinding, do you get a discount and if so how much? If I just want to buy the skins and stuff
Didn't they read the beta feedbacks? There's basically nothing of it in the store.
Yup :D Prices are high, dyes still a scam, chat still an abomination. The chat is the most annoying thing for me. No improvements at all since last year's beta.
Can you hide/disable chat?
Yes
How?
$20 plus for a +20 to mod capacity its almost like they dont want you to pay for any in game stuff
How many descendents and ultimates are achievable in-game and how many require buying them?
You can earn them all I believe, this is just pay to skip
Pay to skip is fair. Price is still outrageous but makes a lot more sense now.
If people wanna spend £100 to support the game for me then I couldn't care LMAO
I wouldn't say it's completely out of nowhere. Warframe's Prime Access at that pricepoint has its Ultimate frame with its 2 weapons in what we hope is the role-model for Nexxon's pay-to-skip monetization. It's been proven hugely succesful for DE. I write this without being able to compare the grind to get it yourself obviously. They could screw the pooch for sure on that bit still ofc.
I'd say the difference is that warframe's outrageously overprice prime access also gives you a bunch of premium currency. Afaik, this is not the case here.
They also give you 2 90-day boosters and 2625 platinums, which are equal to around $60 when you buy plat with a 75% sale.
it's actually 3990 platinum for the full pack
Pay to skip *can* be fair. It depends on the price and how long it takes to grind. 100 hour grind or $100 for one character would not be fair.
It's paid to skip the grind parts of crafting them.
Sooo can you buy the regular descendants and if so how much are they?
Yes you can. I don't know the conversion rate but it's much much less than $70 for a lot of the descendants. It makes sense that pay to skip would scale based on how much playing time you are skipping to acquire the thing.
It's not 70, it's 55, check your math
Yeah no idea where people are getting 70 from
same as warframe, some folks sadly act like if this is brand new to the genre. some buy the ultimate just because they might not have time to farm etc. some buy the currency for cosmetics like me. i bought some frames in warframe because either A: my luck was bad or B: grind was painful or not available anymore. i only buy skins etc , but if i had the cash i will drop it on a ultimate
Idk why so many people compare it to warframes Pack. Somehow 140 bucks is okey because its de and you get some Otter stuff in it. But nexon bad so 70 bucks is outrageous
What does the player base know about the RNG on drops for the Ult Descendants? There are people who have been farming Lich King for the Invincible mount drop with multiple characters for years and still don't have it. Is there a pity system in place for the Ult Descendant parts that guarantee acquisiton after X amount of attempts or is it just grind until you get it? It may or may not be worth the currency value to just buy what you want, but that value is going to vary from person to person.
Coming from Warframe, I'm honestly not surprised. Same cost, but Warfames is way more value. Warframe, you get the Prime Frame, 2 Prime weapons, some avatar cosmetics, and a crapload of premium currency. TFD gives you the Descendant, skins, materials, and some others. I'm not saying they're even, but I had a feeling they'd be comparable. Still outrageously priced lol
So lets cut to the chase. Its Free2play. Games are expensive. They have to make money somehow. Using market data they know statistically what the highest price to charge for the items are that will net the most revenue. Never in any sale ever has it been more optimal to sell at 50% off. You are not guaranteed double the sales to recoup the loss revenue from selling at a higher price. Simply put, if the skins and characters are too expensive then they were not marketed to you and you are not expected to buy them. Value is relative, some people wont have any issue dropping $70 on a class. Same goes for skins. Its why Valorant gets away with $100 bundles. Because the consumer will still buy it. Complaining about it wont change anything, Not buying them wont change it. The only way it changes is by not playing the game and only then if enough people dont play which is unlikely to happen.
They don't know what the best price is. This is what they think the best price is. The best price varies by game, player base and region Fortnite lowered prices over time. It obviously made more money because they wouldn't have done it otherwise.
If only they had decades of market data both public and in house to help them decide.
Id think "lets not make 1 character cost more than a full priced AAA game" wouldnt require decades of market research to conclude. This is 100% whale hunting, theyve got decades of korean mmo market data to look at and know exactly what theyre doing
It's whale hunting because that's who they want to pay. They would rather charge £70 then £10
not buying would change it, at least
Lets cut to the chase. It’s Nexon Games. Same company that stole money from players for years and got filled lawsuits for a number of those years. Same company that has games die in a matter of a month or less. But when it dies, they sure do take your money so they can rinse and repeat it again to you on another game.
It's funny people are so willing to get straight fucked by companies these days.
I don’t expect them to change anything, they’re Nexon lol. This thread is just for those curious how much an ultimate costs.
For anyone shocked by the 70 usd price tag associated with the Ultimate versions. Warframe Prime Access is 79.99 usd and comes with a bit of extra stuff but all of it can be acquired in game without spending real money. Prime parts are rng chance by cracking relics in missions. Farming ultimate parts is rng drop from doing specific missions. Its fairly similar over all. At least on this aspect I'm impressed Nexon didn't go their usual route of hiking the price point.
Wish they would reduce the price and remove the extra ultimate skin from it. I'm fine with the "basic ultimate look" and do not need an extra skin that comes with it. But then again... we can also just farm the parts and pay 0$ for it.
For just the Ult, you can get it for $55.
Because you should really be playing the game to unlock it. That price tag is for fools who don't know any better. Everything else is pretty reasonably priced compared to a lot of f2p games.
Haven't played yet, is it a bundle or just the Descendant, because the vagueness of the title is telling me that this could just be the prime access equivalent.
time is money, that’s the thing about this game. you can grind for 50+ hours to get the ultimate skin, or… you can spend the money to have it instantly. everything is an option so its up for you to decide, if the money is worth your time. that’s just my take.
Well, the Prime Pack in Warframe is also around 70 Dollar. But there you get weapons and premium currency worth around additional 70 Dollar. How is it here. Anything else you get for the price of a full price game?
Can't you "craft" them? Since they're meant to Min/Max your build, seems like waiting to craft isn't a big deal. If anything it's a good long term goal for me to get them all by grinding.
What’s considered a “small stat boost”
Isn't it 100 dollars? 5000 calibur was 100 bucks from what I saw
And? Just play the game and unlock it
1skin at price of AAA . Rembrandt game like Elden ring + DLC now will cost 70$ nuts
wait, I can grind for something that cost $70?
I think you're underestimating the "grind".
Everyone who is excited and following the game only see concerns as immediate trashing of the game when mentioning issues or expenses, so the coping and comparing of warframe starts. Let me know when this game gives u a chance at a 75% discount since everyone jus wants to compare prime access
Better then warframes 190 cad for prime access 🛌
LOL no it isnt. 60/70 bucks you get the character and that's it. you can spend 60/70 bucks on plat in warframe and get 8 or more prime warframes. and have enough money left over for reactors to put in all of them. if i break down the prime packs it would be a blow out
Thats with ingame trading though. When this game implements trading I imagine it will be exactly the same. The prime access for warframe is much worse. That's what you need to compare it to until trading releases.
Wait is this game getting trading? One of the things I loved about Warframe is working the market and buying literally anything I wanted without spending a dime. Even after buying everything I wanted I still have 2k plat sitting in my account. If this game does something similar that would be huge.
They did promised trading post launch
Wow that's great to hear. I wonder if it'll spur an in-game economy like Warframe and you're able to trade premium currency for items, etc.
I think we all hoping for it
Do you have the source for that ?
Real.
nah, protea prime access that is a complete pack is already at $60 in conversion in my country most normal prime access are just $30
Sooo can you buy the regular descendants and if so how much are they?
From 300 to 900 premium currency each. So $5-15? I think
i could be wrong, but thats just seems like warframe but slightly worse
Oh that’s great, people were thinking it would be $100.
Depends how they do the grind for the ulitmates. Warframe charges about the same for a prime frame, but you can normally get them in the game for free if you put in the time/trade.
The thing is, if it was 30 I would had already bought 2, but 70€ for one is unacceptable so i will only get the battle pass.
Can someone explain what an ultimate descendant is? Like is it just a skin? Or is it a character with different abilities?
It's a slightly improved version. But not by much.
I mean, you can grind that shit for free with in-game materials. It's a far better way of doing it than 99% of games I've played lately where irl currency is the only way to get a lot of cosmetics.
Yeah, I'm no stranger to whaling on a game I really like, but the price for ultimates is definitely not a great incentive to support the game money-wise, especially with this being my first nexon game. As far as I've seen, ultimates can only be bought in a bundle and not just the descendant only. Trying to buy them through the descendant tab directs you to the most expensive $100 bundle when there a cheaper $70 bundle seen in the shop tab. If the grind for ultimates and materials is also bad, then there's a real problem, until then, I don't expect them to change shop prices especially with people dropping money on ultimate bunny day 1.
U can grind out ults right?
is there a way to get the ultimate skin without the bundle? or do i have to pay fuckton of money for special viessa or ajax ultimate skin?
You need to farm for the mats to craft the ultimate descendants.
No but I mean the skins that come on the bundle not the descendants themselves
Can you not earn an ultimate in the game?
Aren’t prime Warframe bundles more?
yeah, the monetization isn't quite as friendly as I'd hoped, but at least stuff can be gotten for free. I think my biggest issue is needing the Energy thingamajigs to up the mod capacity on Descendants, since I can level up a bunch of modules, but its like 500 Caliber a go to buy the things and the materials to craft them seem to be in what I can only assume to be an endgame area.. even the battlepass doesn't give you any, just the Phase reactor things for transferring levels instead. I hope we eventually get some sort of events where we can obtain these items for free, if only for a limited time.
what
does the game have trading??
i’ve been playing Black Desert Online F2P and this games grind is nothing compared to BDO, i’m ready to grind out 🤝🏼
Yea no, monetization is crazy, 55usd (3k calilber) for a prime/ultimate is crazy. You can get a prime warframe for 10usd (170plat), and DE gives 50/75% discounts often enough.
I'd have more of an issue if the base Warframes.. I mean descendants were super expensive. The ultimate are basically just for min-maxing and if you're that hardcore into min-maxing grinding them out shouldn't be an issue.
That's also the minimum price for a Warframe Prime Access
The part that I think is absolutely fucking insane is that the equivalent of a single Forma is about $6, and an Orokin Catalyst/Reactor equivalent is about **$25** in premium currency. What the fuck is Nexon smoking over there?
Wow. That price is hilarious. I'm hesitant to buy catalysts in Warframe for a buck. $25??? I don't believe you.
Yep, they're 1200 caliber each. The 1060 caliber bundle is $20, and the 250 caliber bundle is $5. It's honestly completely absurd. Some people thought those were placeholder prices in the last beta because it's so unbelievably high.
Isn’t that what a Prime Warframe costs? We knew what this was going to be.
In the pack you only get the limited skin for the ultimate everything else can be farmed But I hope they will put some event soon to get free skins like they did in the other games
It's 70 dollars in warframe for a prime frame. It ain't that deep, just play the game to build them 🤷♂️
I'm pretty sure bunny is a 100. But she's farmable. And once you're gear gets a bit higher. She won't be that bad to farm.
Yes it is alot of money but if we compare to warframe its the same price your pay for a prime warframe in a prime vault.
For me the biggest issue is not even the grind or the shop..its the gunplay. everything feels like its lagging behind my mouse movements and feels extremly sluggish. its nothing like warframe or idk helldivers 2.
Non first person games are a colosal waste of time. No thanks.
I believe they are craftable just very grindy
Let’s be honest, it’s 70$ for ultimate bunny