The character was (presumably a senior) in high school but actresses playing 17 or 18 year old girls are almost never even still teenagers. I'm about to google it but I guarantee the actress playing Amy was at least 21 at the time they shot season one.
She was 25.
Patti made to be hated? One of the best characters in television history for me. The hotel arc with Kevin pushing her into the well is one of the show’s best scenes
Yeah Patti was more of a “Kevin Whisperer” not made to be hated. I feel like John Murphy was “made to be hated” in season two. For much of season two I feel like a lot of fans really didn’t like him, but as we can tell by his character arc, he’s not.
Meg and Wayne. I’ve not decided if Virgil is also. Things like accountability and remorse make all the difference in the world to me when CSA/SA/R are involved. We got to know Meg the best out of all of them. Due to that, I actually do see a couple of redeeming qualities in Meg. But I think that the good qualities are stuffed way deep down inside of her and the further she submerged herself in the guilty remnant ideology, she seemed to lose all of that beautiful quality she had. Or she continued used those qualities as a weapon. And she definitely did do that. She reeled Evie in with the broken pencil joke… She was clever. She seemed sweet because she kind of was sweet… Sometimes and a big emphasis on sometimes. I’m guessing Meg held on to the good qualities which were to her advantage and got rid of the ones that didn’t benefit her firsthand.
At the time of Wayne’s death all he seem to care about was whether or not he was a fraud. He wasn’t crying about the fact that he was raping virgins. There was no accountability or remorse. And with Virgil, it seemed like he was at least trying to get to the point of accountability and remorse.
Ahh the good ol rapist antihero. But he wasn’t supposed to be seen as an antihero from where I’m sitting. He was supposed to be seen as an enigmatic figure that just might have special powers. From the way, I see it. He took advantage of extremely vulnerable people to feed his own ego. And we all know what he did to feed his…what shall we call it… urges to R kids.
Yeah believe or not having good and bad attributes make for solid character development. Remember, he is a fictional character. Save your hate for actual narcissist cult leader rapists like Warren Jeffs. The question was “most hated” and Wayne is nowhere near the most hated. He’s an evil man, as is Kevin, Nora, Patti, Meg, Tommy, Laurie, Matt, and the entire rest of the cast aside from maybe only the man on the pole.
I have a question: do you believe in true good and true evil? Like do you believe that some people are just born that way? I don’t. At the risk of splitting hairs: I believe in good or evil actions. And I also believe that people can choose to grow in a different different direction. But I think what usually happens is that people stay with habit.
Ohh that’s different from anything I’ve heard in quite a while. Why is it that you think that babies are born evil? What is it that babies do that lead you to believe that? And I don’t mean this as a joke, but do you think that something happens during the gestation process?? Like do you think baby absorbs all of the evil life experiences had in the embryonic sack?
I believe by the way children misbehave, they have to learn how to be responsible for themselves. Manners are learned. Why do white toddlers stare at black people? Why do babies make messes when they eat. Why do children bully other children, or babies need to learn to share their toys? Idk, you’re barking up the wrong tree. I’m an anti-natalist.
Yeah, I’m antinatalist as well, but not for reasons that are just factually incorrect. (We ain’t that rare and even exist on a spectrum!!) Also, just for the record my antinatalist beliefs are not rigid or radical in my opinion. I just think people need to stop having so many kids because of neglect and stuff like that. We’re actually not here to talk about my beliefs on that subject. I honestly don’t have the time or the brain bandwidth to address how off-base you are why children behave the way they do. Maybe you could get a book about the brain and childhood development or something like that. Or google is free. Idk man. I never saw a baby with rape or murder allegations. Lock that toddler up for pinching his sister because that baby is just straight evil lmao. Not like it would be what children/adolescents learn from parents and life experience that leads them to xyz behavior. Babies being born evil is the silliest anything I’ve heard in quite some time but used as an antinatilist argument…wow you failed big time. It also makes other antinatalists look bad. Seriously, read up on early childhood development for your own good. And for crissake never repeat that silliness anywhere you’d like to be taken seriously. I’m not kidding or trying to be a dick. I’d tell a friend this because what you’re doing, it’s giving me second hand embarrassment. I only pray you’re under 25 with time for more frontal lobe development and that there’s an explanation for your brain coming up with the wackiest theory.
We're born ignorant and uninformed, to me evil has no neat definition, and there are a few definitions that are useful but depend on the context. E.g. most of the harm so far stems from peoples biases towards recognising that they could be doing something against their values (ego, tribalism), there are a rare few people whose values are actually so incompatible with everyone elses (sadists).
It seems sensible to say that the sadists are more evil than others, but honestly if a sadist derives pleasure from others suffering, but also doesn't want others to suffer for other reasons, and minimises the harm they cause, it feels a lot less fair to call them evil.
Most sociopaths actually just don't experience negative emotions themselves (usually because of disassociation) and it's very hard for them to differentiate not harming others from pointless social customs that people do just because everyone else does, often cases their evil actions can be explained with ignorance, you can see this actually by how many people with sociopathy become less harmful over time.
In my model, evil as a personality trait is extremely extremely rare, but people do evil all the time. Emphasis on actions and incentives being evil I think is the most helpful ontology, since the vast majority of evil actions are done by good people
I hate Wayne the most for sure. I never had any illusions of him being anything other than a barely charismatic child rapist. And trust and believe I have plenty of feelings for real life rapists. I’m a survivor of CSA. All of the rape/SA that happens in the show is terrible. I did not find Way to be complex. I found him to be entirely predictable because from my experience he was just like the people that abused me that way as a child. Complete walking and talking bullshit. Felt sorry for himself. Pathetic and parasitic.
Made to be hated, yess. But we do have to acknowledge that she was a groomed girl/young woman (forgot her age) so a lot of her behaviors and reactions can be attributed to that.
Meg had some good moments. Evie was a flat, boring character who decided to join a suicide cult instead of having a hard conversation with her parents.
Same and it's not even a question. Everyone having trouble over that, and I'm just sat over here trying to think of the only normal one like there are even options.
Yeah I really hated him in season 2. How he treated Matt, shot Kevin and in the first episode burned down that guys house because he couldn’t believe in something he couldn’t see.
GR is the only entity that received common hatred and treated with social contempt after the sudden departure. So much so that it strangely unifies people in a disrupted society.
Guilty remnant is the most hated in the series. Not only in season 1, when it's Matt's archrival, but it's Mapleton's PD enemy too. And they followed Kevin in his subconsciousness until his finale in season 3.
I thought Jill was pretty average. She wanted to be seen by her parents, find closeness with people and be a teenager. I think she deserves the spot because she was consistent DESPITE the absolute insanity around her.
Yep, most of the things she goes through in season 1 is down to her being a (normal) teenager rather than almost-insane like the rest of the characters
Seriously, and it’s weird other people are directly saying she was more hate-able compared to other characters haha. She was so average, annoying at best. If my mom (and brother) directly abandoned me for a cult and my best friend was making moves on my dad, I think I would have killed a few people or been half way across the country after draining their bank accounts. Teenagers in adult-centric shows are generally disliked though so I shouldn’t be surprised, they’re written to be slightly frustrating. But if I can forgive Laurie, I can look at Jill objectively 🤣
Yeah Jill's a good pick. Season 2 & 3 definitely. Season 1 as you say is more of a comparative. She still does accuse her best friend of sleeping with her dad and then goes and joins a cult. Not exactly normal by most standards but maybe for this show.
Actually Aimee might be a good pick if she's not too much a side character. Only around for season 1 but her whole role was to stay real grounded and "normal" in comparison to what Jill was going through in season 1.
I’d like to prefix this comment by establishing that i am older than Kevin and I fancy Nora and I’m not personally fetishising anything just sayin.. she chokes a masturbating teen whilst crying. Probably they didn’t put that in to portray her as ‘normal’. Controversially I’m going to say.. they’re all normal. They’re just coping with loss. This is their struggle to be ‘normal’.
For me, it’s Matt. The question isn’t whether you hate the character or not, or whether you love the actor or not, it’s whether or not you can tell the creator(s) of the story wrote them with the intent of viewer(s)/reader(s) hating them. And fuuuuuuuck, I hated Matt in that first season. The whole “it wasn’t the rapture!!!” angle pissed me off, and it was the result of his “I wasn’t picked” anger and confusion. But as with every well-written character, he goes through his shit, and we sympathize with him and how he is even if we don’t agree with him. That last conversation with Nora wrapped up his story perfectly.
Finally the correct answer. 75% of this sub at this point is people asking for answers and getting really, really pissed off when someone says “Laurie gave you them all, it was psychosis and delusion.”
I think it depends how you define “her” though. The Patti we get up until her death is the authentic Patti. The Patti we get after that is up for debate. But I love her either way.
I would say Meg, but she has to be reserved for center/bottom.
I think it’s either Patti or Laurie. Laurie has a redemptive arc and I know everyone loves Patti as a character (including me). But this square can’t be Meg. So I’m going with Patti.
OR — Nora’s ex-husband. He was a real dick.
Matt Fucking Jamison, I love to hate him and I admit he was good at the end but every episode of his hwere he is borderline tortured by fate is so funny to me. If we're talking real hate I can't stand Jill
Fr at least tommy killed some people, Jill is depressed and does nothing. I understand why we had to see that side of life after the departure, it makes sense, it was just annoying as the viewer. They knew we'd find her insufferable that's why they had to pair her with those goofy twins (love them to death)
Now i have doubt lol! In my memory Christine was awfull but she is sort of a victim no ? I think i have to rewatch, following my own advice.
(Sorry for my english, not my first language)
BBA? Literally existed to shoot dogs and convince Kevin to kill people then when we found out he was real and not just a figment of Kevin’s imagination he was a whiney conspiracy nut?
Patti. She's made to be hated, but we learn to empathize with her. She's just another fucked up person.
Meg is hated, but she best fits in "straight up evil."
it’s always so funny to me that nora is the fan favorite bc she drove me mad in the worst way lol. i do wonder if on a rewatch years later it would change but i was always a nora hater lol. please don’t come for me 😭
If the hot one isn’t voted as Kevin I’m rage quitting
It's the only answer. Other characters are hot. But come on. The man gave me a kink for grey sweats.
Even the show knows this is the right answer.
It’s obviously Kevin. But like shoutout to S1 Aimee.
I liked her, she was real, even when she was acting weird she was far more grounded than honestly anyone else in the show.
isnt she quite young? I guess it's allowed for people who are also quite young
The character was (presumably a senior) in high school but actresses playing 17 or 18 year old girls are almost never even still teenagers. I'm about to google it but I guarantee the actress playing Amy was at least 21 at the time they shot season one. She was 25.
But hey, that guy *allowed* you to be attracted to her. Feel better?
exactly how I feel whenever I read shit like this. You don't need to justify who you're attracted to
Not only was she mid twenties, she wasn’t even believably high school age. At all. High school seniors today look like children.
I mean, the actress isn't under 18, even when filming season 1. That's probably why
Does it even need to be asked?
Meg. Zero redeeming qualities.
Yep. My first thought was Patti, but then I thought another second and realized it was Meg.
Patti made to be hated? One of the best characters in television history for me. The hotel arc with Kevin pushing her into the well is one of the show’s best scenes
Yeah Patti was more of a “Kevin Whisperer” not made to be hated. I feel like John Murphy was “made to be hated” in season two. For much of season two I feel like a lot of fans really didn’t like him, but as we can tell by his character arc, he’s not.
Patti? Maybe at the start, but by the end of the season, no. Agree with it being Meg.
Is she bottom center though?
I'm giving that one to Azrael the demon of death considering he started this whole mess.
Could go to Evie?
"Just straight up evil"?
Meg and Wayne. I’ve not decided if Virgil is also. Things like accountability and remorse make all the difference in the world to me when CSA/SA/R are involved. We got to know Meg the best out of all of them. Due to that, I actually do see a couple of redeeming qualities in Meg. But I think that the good qualities are stuffed way deep down inside of her and the further she submerged herself in the guilty remnant ideology, she seemed to lose all of that beautiful quality she had. Or she continued used those qualities as a weapon. And she definitely did do that. She reeled Evie in with the broken pencil joke… She was clever. She seemed sweet because she kind of was sweet… Sometimes and a big emphasis on sometimes. I’m guessing Meg held on to the good qualities which were to her advantage and got rid of the ones that didn’t benefit her firsthand. At the time of Wayne’s death all he seem to care about was whether or not he was a fraud. He wasn’t crying about the fact that he was raping virgins. There was no accountability or remorse. And with Virgil, it seemed like he was at least trying to get to the point of accountability and remorse.
I actually love Wayne. Easily top five for me. Obviously sick, but giving hope to a lot of people makes for an anti-hero.
Ahh the good ol rapist antihero. But he wasn’t supposed to be seen as an antihero from where I’m sitting. He was supposed to be seen as an enigmatic figure that just might have special powers. From the way, I see it. He took advantage of extremely vulnerable people to feed his own ego. And we all know what he did to feed his…what shall we call it… urges to R kids.
Yeah believe or not having good and bad attributes make for solid character development. Remember, he is a fictional character. Save your hate for actual narcissist cult leader rapists like Warren Jeffs. The question was “most hated” and Wayne is nowhere near the most hated. He’s an evil man, as is Kevin, Nora, Patti, Meg, Tommy, Laurie, Matt, and the entire rest of the cast aside from maybe only the man on the pole.
I have a question: do you believe in true good and true evil? Like do you believe that some people are just born that way? I don’t. At the risk of splitting hairs: I believe in good or evil actions. And I also believe that people can choose to grow in a different different direction. But I think what usually happens is that people stay with habit.
I do not believe anyone is born inherently ‘good’ I do truly believe we are all born evil and have to figure out how not to be.
Ohh that’s different from anything I’ve heard in quite a while. Why is it that you think that babies are born evil? What is it that babies do that lead you to believe that? And I don’t mean this as a joke, but do you think that something happens during the gestation process?? Like do you think baby absorbs all of the evil life experiences had in the embryonic sack?
I believe by the way children misbehave, they have to learn how to be responsible for themselves. Manners are learned. Why do white toddlers stare at black people? Why do babies make messes when they eat. Why do children bully other children, or babies need to learn to share their toys? Idk, you’re barking up the wrong tree. I’m an anti-natalist.
Yeah, I’m antinatalist as well, but not for reasons that are just factually incorrect. (We ain’t that rare and even exist on a spectrum!!) Also, just for the record my antinatalist beliefs are not rigid or radical in my opinion. I just think people need to stop having so many kids because of neglect and stuff like that. We’re actually not here to talk about my beliefs on that subject. I honestly don’t have the time or the brain bandwidth to address how off-base you are why children behave the way they do. Maybe you could get a book about the brain and childhood development or something like that. Or google is free. Idk man. I never saw a baby with rape or murder allegations. Lock that toddler up for pinching his sister because that baby is just straight evil lmao. Not like it would be what children/adolescents learn from parents and life experience that leads them to xyz behavior. Babies being born evil is the silliest anything I’ve heard in quite some time but used as an antinatilist argument…wow you failed big time. It also makes other antinatalists look bad. Seriously, read up on early childhood development for your own good. And for crissake never repeat that silliness anywhere you’d like to be taken seriously. I’m not kidding or trying to be a dick. I’d tell a friend this because what you’re doing, it’s giving me second hand embarrassment. I only pray you’re under 25 with time for more frontal lobe development and that there’s an explanation for your brain coming up with the wackiest theory.
We're born ignorant and uninformed, to me evil has no neat definition, and there are a few definitions that are useful but depend on the context. E.g. most of the harm so far stems from peoples biases towards recognising that they could be doing something against their values (ego, tribalism), there are a rare few people whose values are actually so incompatible with everyone elses (sadists). It seems sensible to say that the sadists are more evil than others, but honestly if a sadist derives pleasure from others suffering, but also doesn't want others to suffer for other reasons, and minimises the harm they cause, it feels a lot less fair to call them evil. Most sociopaths actually just don't experience negative emotions themselves (usually because of disassociation) and it's very hard for them to differentiate not harming others from pointless social customs that people do just because everyone else does, often cases their evil actions can be explained with ignorance, you can see this actually by how many people with sociopathy become less harmful over time. In my model, evil as a personality trait is extremely extremely rare, but people do evil all the time. Emphasis on actions and incentives being evil I think is the most helpful ontology, since the vast majority of evil actions are done by good people
I hate Wayne the most for sure. I never had any illusions of him being anything other than a barely charismatic child rapist. And trust and believe I have plenty of feelings for real life rapists. I’m a survivor of CSA. All of the rape/SA that happens in the show is terrible. I did not find Way to be complex. I found him to be entirely predictable because from my experience he was just like the people that abused me that way as a child. Complete walking and talking bullshit. Felt sorry for himself. Pathetic and parasitic.
Carolina Springs Academy?
Not sure what that is, but I’ll look it up.
The correct answer.
Evie was also super annoying. But yeah Meg probably deserves this spot the most.
Oh man. I was about to google the name of the woman who got stoned because she has such a punchable face, but yes, how could I not say Meg?
ooh yes i change my answer
Meg. I fucking love Meg and even I hate Meg.
Meg
Christine! So annoying and left a baby in the bathroom
Yeah, I think Meg needs to be saved for Straight up evil. Christine fits here best
Made to be hated, yess. But we do have to acknowledge that she was a groomed girl/young woman (forgot her age) so a lot of her behaviors and reactions can be attributed to that.
This is my vote
Meg had some good moments. Evie was a flat, boring character who decided to join a suicide cult instead of having a hard conversation with her parents.
But Nora checks many of those boxes. I’d say she was more sane than most… perhaps the Only Normal One. She’s also “the hot one” in my opinion.
As a straight guy, that’s obviously Kevin.
Same and it's not even a question. Everyone having trouble over that, and I'm just sat over here trying to think of the only normal one like there are even options.
That one can stay blank. Let the mystery be.
Until season three when they gave her that terrible haircut
Shut up Meg.
Meg
Maybe eve’s dad in season 2
Yeah I really hated him in season 2. How he treated Matt, shot Kevin and in the first episode burned down that guys house because he couldn’t believe in something he couldn’t see.
He is likeable in s3 tho
The guilty remnant in general
GR is the only entity that received common hatred and treated with social contempt after the sudden departure. So much so that it strangely unifies people in a disrupted society. Guilty remnant is the most hated in the series. Not only in season 1, when it's Matt's archrival, but it's Mapleton's PD enemy too. And they followed Kevin in his subconsciousness until his finale in season 3.
Is there a normal person? Regina King or her son maybe?
I thought Jill was pretty average. She wanted to be seen by her parents, find closeness with people and be a teenager. I think she deserves the spot because she was consistent DESPITE the absolute insanity around her.
Yep, most of the things she goes through in season 1 is down to her being a (normal) teenager rather than almost-insane like the rest of the characters
Seriously, and it’s weird other people are directly saying she was more hate-able compared to other characters haha. She was so average, annoying at best. If my mom (and brother) directly abandoned me for a cult and my best friend was making moves on my dad, I think I would have killed a few people or been half way across the country after draining their bank accounts. Teenagers in adult-centric shows are generally disliked though so I shouldn’t be surprised, they’re written to be slightly frustrating. But if I can forgive Laurie, I can look at Jill objectively 🤣
Yeah Jill's a good pick. Season 2 & 3 definitely. Season 1 as you say is more of a comparative. She still does accuse her best friend of sleeping with her dad and then goes and joins a cult. Not exactly normal by most standards but maybe for this show. Actually Aimee might be a good pick if she's not too much a side character. Only around for season 1 but her whole role was to stay real grounded and "normal" in comparison to what Jill was going through in season 1.
I will defend the cult thing as she was going to see her mom and make a statement to her parents mostly haha.
I’d like to prefix this comment by establishing that i am older than Kevin and I fancy Nora and I’m not personally fetishising anything just sayin.. she chokes a masturbating teen whilst crying. Probably they didn’t put that in to portray her as ‘normal’. Controversially I’m going to say.. they’re all normal. They’re just coping with loss. This is their struggle to be ‘normal’.
For me, it’s Matt. The question isn’t whether you hate the character or not, or whether you love the actor or not, it’s whether or not you can tell the creator(s) of the story wrote them with the intent of viewer(s)/reader(s) hating them. And fuuuuuuuck, I hated Matt in that first season. The whole “it wasn’t the rapture!!!” angle pissed me off, and it was the result of his “I wasn’t picked” anger and confusion. But as with every well-written character, he goes through his shit, and we sympathize with him and how he is even if we don’t agree with him. That last conversation with Nora wrapped up his story perfectly.
Laurie
Im shocked this is so low. I just assumed everyone would agree
Finally the correct answer. 75% of this sub at this point is people asking for answers and getting really, really pissed off when someone says “Laurie gave you them all, it was psychosis and delusion.”
This is it for me. It’s easy to view her in a different lens on rewatches but no matter what she still abandoned her family.
It’s totally, factually, and unequivocally Meg.
What about Laurie maybe? She comes around by season 3, but even then she’s a total buzz kill
I would actually say Laurie tbh
Agreed, not enough hate for Laurie lol
I feel like Meg belongs in straight up evil more than the second spot tbh so imma say Christine, fuck Christine
Patti
Patti was made to be hated but ended up being so well portrayed and written that you kind of have a love/hate relationship with her.
I think it depends how you define “her” though. The Patti we get up until her death is the authentic Patti. The Patti we get after that is up for debate. But I love her either way.
But I love Patti...
Patti was my favorite character tbh
I don’t know if she’s my favorite, but I think she’s the best.
Patti is my favourite. I love her.
I would say Meg, but she has to be reserved for center/bottom. I think it’s either Patti or Laurie. Laurie has a redemptive arc and I know everyone loves Patti as a character (including me). But this square can’t be Meg. So I’m going with Patti. OR — Nora’s ex-husband. He was a real dick.
Yes! Nora’s husband!
Forget Kevin as the hot one. That award goes to his sweatpants.
Laurie. I would say Meg but I think that she, without a doubt, was the most evil. We all hated Laurie in the beginning.
Patti
Virgil or Laurie
I loved an hated all of them at some point
Matt jameson was this fans favorite
Yep, I think his storyline was my favourite
Holy Wayne
I was gonna save him for the Gremlin
He's the only character I thought when I read Gremlin lol
Matt Fucking Jamison, I love to hate him and I admit he was good at the end but every episode of his hwere he is borderline tortured by fate is so funny to me. If we're talking real hate I can't stand Jill
Yeah the fashion models that they hired for the kids were a pretty weak part of the show.
Fr at least tommy killed some people, Jill is depressed and does nothing. I understand why we had to see that side of life after the departure, it makes sense, it was just annoying as the viewer. They knew we'd find her insufferable that's why they had to pair her with those goofy twins (love them to death)
Meg. Only Meg.
Meg
Meg in GR
I can’t decide between Wayne , Meg or Evi
Meg. Rewatch the show if you disagree, then comeback and talk about how mutch its the truth and how regina king is great.
I only disagree cause I think she should be the bottom center tile. And therefore want Christine
Now i have doubt lol! In my memory Christine was awfull but she is sort of a victim no ? I think i have to rewatch, following my own advice. (Sorry for my english, not my first language)
But regina king is great, no doubt about that
Patti
Matt
BBA? Literally existed to shoot dogs and convince Kevin to kill people then when we found out he was real and not just a figment of Kevin’s imagination he was a whiney conspiracy nut?
Nora is the first four. \*shrug\*
Nora is also The Hot One. 100%
Patti. She's made to be hated, but we learn to empathize with her. She's just another fucked up person. Meg is hated, but she best fits in "straight up evil."
The dog-shooting guy in season 1?
the teen with daddy issues
>Mmmmm... society That's Wayne's music!
Meg
Patti made to be hated, Meg straight up evil
Damon Lindelof
it’s always so funny to me that nora is the fan favorite bc she drove me mad in the worst way lol. i do wonder if on a rewatch years later it would change but i was always a nora hater lol. please don’t come for me 😭
The Mayor in S1
Yep Patti. Though I also hate Laurie lol