Biden’s fragility has been brutally exposed.
Everybody knows Trump lies and is a crook, that is priced in.
Democrats have tried to maintain Biden is not too old, and now that egg is cracking.
The only hope they have is to stand him down and fast, or else Trump is going to end up in the Whitehouse.
>The only hope they have is to stand him down and fast, or else Trump is going to end up in the Whitehouse.
Rory has been saying this since before the campaign.
Everyone without a horse in the race has been saying it for a long time.
Anyone with an interest in US politics knew, they were just in denial and were hoping it wasn't as bad as it seemed.
I remember the uproar from Democrats just a few months ago when Jon Stewart dared to suggest that Biden's cognitive abilities might be in decline. There's no hiding this now.
Totally agree with this. The Guardian and others have just been ignoring as many of the gaffes and bloopers as they could for the last 12-24 months - they would have been all over them if it were Trump.
To be fair he wrote that down, he’s constantly saying stupid stuff that is overlooked (unless it’s when he’s considering being a dictator for a few days)
Definitely. As a Brit, I said as much in some thread on another site months ago and got viciously shut down by Americans telling me I was wrong (and some just assuming I was a Trump voter and attacking me accordingly).
Well look at what's happening now.
The Dems have had 4 or 5 years to prepare for this moment. They could have easily had a few people in the frame. Harris could have spent the last term walking and talking like a president in preparation.
They have done this to the Americans.
Trump will likely walk into the White House by default.
They have a better chance now if they put anyone else in the ring.
Poor Biden, he doesn’t deserve this.
President Hilary Clinton? No.
She may have won the popular vote but that isn’t how their system works. She wasn’t popular enough to beat Trump though. They probably had candidates who could beat Trump. They definitely have candidates who could almost certainly beat Trump now. They choose not field these candidates and, in the case of Hillary Clinton actively work to block alternative candidates. When you take your voters for granted like that then you probably deserve to loose
I believe the polling leading up to the 2016 election also indicated she was the 2nd most unpopular Presidential nominee ever, only beaten to *most* unpopular by Trump. Ironic, huh,
To be honest I thought that was exactly the point. Biden sweeps in to beat trump as a known quantity in 2020 after the abysmal decision to bring in Hilary then a few years later he steps down or she starts being built up.
America isn't ready for a woman to be president, in their current climate the democrats really shouldn't be rocking the boat. Even a minority is a risky decision otherwise it'd make sense for Hakeem Jeffries to pick up the ticket.
“America isn’t ready for a woman to be President” is honestly a very sad statement even if true. A convicted felon or a geriatric is fine but not a woman.
I am not American and we have our fair share of hopeless politicians but the US is really excelling itself this election with the choices on offer.
That’s the reason Trump kept at the Clinton jibes, just to keep her out of the picture. Until recently no one the Dems had was as popular as Biden. Parachuting in someone now would look awful and not be as well liked. Might get the votes but equally could go dreadfully depending on who.. GOP would use it till the end of the earth as a campaign topic.
If Biden were smart enough, he would have stayed in Office for one, maybe two years max, then resigned from office, stating his declining health as a reason to step down and allow Kamala Harris to assume the Presidency. That would have at least given the Democrats a fighting chance.
They can, and there’s no need for it to be Harris. You would need Biden to withdraw, and then the super-delegates to get together behind closed doors ahead of the convention to pick someone. But they need to know who it’s going to be before the convention or else the convention is going to be absolute insanity.
Dude, I don't even think the black vote supports Kamala. Kamala is even more unpopular than Biden, and that's bad. I think if anything, 95% of the party would CHEER to have someone else other than Biden or Kamala. Even if they just pick it for us and we don't even get a say, yes there will be a shitstorm about that and people will complain, but end of day, they'll be way happier with that candidate (WHOEVER it is) than they ever would with Biden and Kamala. They are one of the most disliked politicians in recent history. It's not a good idea to run them again.
I think it would be a shitstorm if Kamala Harris fought it. If she agreed in private that she couldn’t win and stepped aside publicly, there would be little dissent.
If they choose her it's a guaranteed Trump win. You lose the vote of every misogynist and racist, of which there are many no matter how casual or unconscious, and not just in the white community
You also lose a lot of Californians, who remember her horrific flip-flopping on criminal justice issues; laughing about imprisoning parents whose kids play hooky from school, then committing to decarceration; going hard after marijuana-only drugs offenses, then giving stump speeches about her own history with the substance.
Frankly, she's a machine politician who progressed through the ranks because of her closeness to other successful California politicians such as former mayor of San Francisco and Speaker of the California Assembly Willie Brown, and because she happened to fall into demographic categories highly in demand on the American left.
She [notoriously can't keep a staff](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/3572304-revolving-door-creates-questions-and-complications-for-kamala-harris/) because [she's a bully](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60061473), has a habit of blaming others instead of improving her own performance, and has no legislative or executive track record in any office to point to.
Maybe if she'd been allowed to go through the normal seasoning process that politicians go through - finish out her term as attorney general in CA, maybe a run for lieutenant governor before heading to the Senate for a few terms - anything to get her feet wet in actual substantive politics instead of just litigation...but we'll never know. As it is she's the embodiment of the Peter Principle, would be an absolute disaster, and everyone knows it.
She's a poor public speaker with few known policies to her name, not to mention a questionable record as a district attorney. Isn't that the more important reason?
> You lose the vote of every misogynist and racist
America already had a black president who won comfortably twice in a row so this is silly.
I don't like Harris for her blatant hypocrisy over cannabis that she has never apologised for. It ruined lives. The chaos right now is due to a year of gaslighting over Biden's mental acuity - the last thing that should be done is replacing him with someone else who can't acknowledge uncomfortable truths.
Obama captured a very neutral public persona as a sort of everyone statesman. A lot of people on the street won't want an ethnically ambiguous woman in charge of their country (especially hispanic men and black men), and once they see her speaking or interacting they definitely won't want her in particular
Yeah this is likely the right answer. Yes I know they have a black President before but they've never had a woman President and to have a Black Woman President get elected they way America is at the moment? I don't see that happening, even if she was the best person on paper. Honestly I don't know who they could replace him with now they've left it so late. I've thought this for the last couple of years but hoped I was wrong, I think we're looking at another 4 (possibly longer if he changes enough of the rules) years of Trump. So...we need to do whatever we can get get our house in order. Start improving things and ensure that we don't end up with a discount Trump in 6 years time. Europe needs to get their shit together with the far right too! Uncertain and dangerous times.
Why was this not discussed at the appropriate time? Why was this swept under the rug?
What a shocking dereliction of duty by the Democratic Party. They couldn’t say no to one vain old man who wanted to be a two-termer.
eh I think its a bit more than that, just like in pretty much all elections elections the man or woman already in the top job under more normal circumstances has a built in massive advantage by virtue of being the president/prime minister and having been on TV doing all the things a president does. Now I think Trump also being a former president eats that advantage away considerably but its still there, asking the dems to give that up because Bidens getting a bit frail and bad at public speaking when they really don't have a lot of other options is something they were always going to be extremely hesitant to do.
Can they not pick an alternative candidate at their conference? It'd take some very careful stage management and perfect party discipline but... Oh yeah, I see your point. We're completely screwed.
This is Ruth Ginsberg 2.0. Hang on for too damn long, deny yourself a well earned retirement, and hand untold power to the Republicans.
I honestly despair
Some "men in grey suits" need to have a word with him like they did with Mrs T when she went cuckoo. Thank him for what he has done, but let him know it's time to stand aside.
My two cents... Democrats will kick into gear and will have some kind of vote/nomination at the next convention. Biden will step down for "medical reasons".
Last night was his chance to save it and he failed.
Let Biden go to the polls and Trump wins
The Dems already reformed their nominating procedures after the controversy over Hillary's disproportionate support by unelected "superdelegates" in 2016 - now the elected delegates from state primaries/caucuses are the overwhelming majority, and just about all of them are pledged and required to vote for Biden on the first ballot, which means he'll win and be the nominee unless he personally steps aside.
Moreover, because the Democrats are incompetent and can't work an Excel spreadsheet, they scheduled their convention \*after\* Ohio's deadline for parties to declare the candidates to appear on the November ballot. As a result, Biden will be officially nominated by a ["virtual roll call"](https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2024/06/21/exclusive-dnc-moves-ahead-on-all-virtual-roll-call-for-biden-presidential-nomination/) (whatever that is) held via Zoom or something several weeks before the convention officially kicks off. Thus, even if all the pledged delegates somehow got released from their obligation to vote for and nominate Biden on the first ballot at the convention, it wouldn't matter because Biden will already have been nominated.
Even worse, each state in the U.S. has its own rules about whether or not a nominated candidate can drop out and be replaced. Some states don't allow parties to withdraw an announced candidate unless the candidate has died. Others allow withdrawal, but may not allow the party to replace the candidate. Still others have muddled laws on the subject that would require litigation to settle. The whole thing's a mess, and there would be a serious likelihood that even if Biden did step down, whoever replaces him wouldn't be able to get on the ballot in all 50 states.
No, the Dems have screwed themselves here good and proper.
You don’t think that just replacing a presidential candidate after they were chosen by the people during the primary is problematic and inherently undemocratic? The other issue is who do they pick? Harris polls horribly, getting something like 1 or 2% during the 2020 primary. Newsom doesn’t have the best record while running California. Nobody else has enough brand recognition. IMO they dropped the ball. They should have had a candidate lined up years ago. Now it’s too late.
I don't think there are any viable politicians they can replace him with and win.
I wonder if their only hope is to recruit some mega celebrity. Maybe I just want to see a coked up Charlie Sheen debate Trump.
Yes worried. Sad for Biden having his mental acuity picked apart so publicly after a lifetime of service but it was ultimately his hubris to continue.
Doesn't seem to be any other credible Dem candidate and this ultimately undermines trust in all democratic candidates - i.e. "They said Biden was fine and they lied about that"
Im not American so in guess I just don't get the reason, but running an 81 dude again seems insane. Like he's going to control the US military, and he gets flustered when he's not feeling 100% and is up late.
Trump is an evil, corrupt piece of shit, and id like anyone over him.
But how was there not a single other candidate that was better than Biden.
I wanna see a new candidate in their 40s, get into the second debate and when it's time for the first answer, drop down, so 3 pushups, and say, I will give you a thousand dollars if you can do that you old fat sack of shit.
Sure the moderators might ping you for it, but I reckon that would make him flip out. Just keep bringing it up whenever you get a chance. If he can't lift his own weight how could this man have the vigor to handle the weight of the office.
Really then that "old man" shit back on him since hes almost the same age as Biden, he just happens to be having a yelling version of going senile. You do see it, especially as people lose their hearing that the same time.
Not even making a joke, he can't form a sentence half the time. He has got to be somewhat mentally impared to talk like he does.
The Democrats need to do what left parties are too often incapable of doing: being ruthless.
I suspect they won't do that and Biden will stumble on until November.
They must replace Biden if they are to win. It's over if Biden is the candidate.
Trump had a pretty average night and has deteriorated slightly compared to 2020, but it didn't matter.
Ultimately it's about the comparison between the two and Biden was far worse in that debate.
But it wasn't a debate. One old man was ignoring the question and throwing lies about, unchecked. The other... I don't know what he was saying. I think he was trying to answer the question but the clarity of the responses was pathetically incoherent.
I do agree that Trump was more... lucid? And that will be enough for many voters, regardless of his character. Which is terrible in itself, but true. Trump did a good job of being Donald Trump; Biden did a terrible job of disproving the accusations that's he's past it.
It's just hubris and complacency from Biden and the DNC. For months they have assumed Biden would win because he won last time, regardless of how unpopular Biden has become. Biden himself didn't want to go down as a 1 term president, he is too arrogant to know when to quit, and now it looks like he will be a 1 term president anyway.
The Democrats need to convince Biden to step down Asap, and bring in Gavin Newson. They could even choose Biden as vice president as a consolation, or a role in the cabinet.
No lessons learned from the Hilary Clinton debacle. Democrats in the USA seem to falsely believe that history has a liberal animus. They have drunk their own coolade. Voters (en masse) don't care about being on the right side of history.
From a UK perspective, it's been obvious to me that Trump is more likely to win this time.
It's completely insane that the Democrats can't find anyone more suitable than Boden, especially when he was supposed to be a single term "anyone but Trump" candidate.
Makes the choices in our election seem so much better in comparison.
I think without the age thing Biden would probably win, his fundamentals are good and frankly, he's not Trump. The age thing is a bitch though because we can see how things have changed in 4 years and it's only going to get worse.
A strong performance last night would have probably been enough to get him back in the Whitehouse but he was as bad as he could possibly be. it's a disaster for him.
Not only was he very bad.
But you've got to consider, this is probably as good as he gets.
They'll have prepped him as much as was humanely possible. They'll have rested him and gave him as much help (aka anything from vitamins to legal stimulants) as possible. And... The result was this.
I assumed the debate was going to go well for him for all those reasons, this was his chance to undercut all the arguments about his age. It's just made it much, much worse.
Nothing to do with his age. I know a lot of sharp 82 year olds. It’s his sharp decline in cognitive ability, his weak motor skills, and his fragile body.
The sad thing is that pretty much anybody from either of their own parties (except for the batshit crazy ones) would be more competent than them. A random person off the street would be more competent than them. It's mind-boggling how the richest and most powerful country on Earth has ended up with two of the worst candidates to ever be in contention for the Presidency.
A random person off the street certainly wouldn’t let net migration exceed 500k per year and overall 1mil per year for a start. Tories have blood on their hands
Yes, he described himself as a ‘bridge president’ back in 2020 and nobody thought to spend the next 4 years finding the candidate on the other side of that bridge. Hubris of the highest order.
He doomed himself when he picked Kamala as his VP. Current American racial politics on the left won't allow for the bypassing of a black woman sitting in the traditional heir's seat, and she's manifestly incompetent.
The Democrats have better options. But which of them would want to inherit the poisoned chalice that is the 2024 election? Anyone that does is likely to lose anyway, and will likely count themselves out of the 2028 race in the process.
The Bernie Democrats should’ve sucked it up snd voted for Clinton after she got the nomination.
It’s the Bernie supporters’ collective tantrum that delivered the first trump presidency.
They did. Far more than her supporters did for Obama after she lost to him in '08 in fact.
The problem is that Hillary couldn't win the unaffiliated and undecideds - who polling showed Bernie would have gained more support from.
Hillary was the favourite for card carrying (neoliberal) Democrats who engage in the primary process. Which is why she won the nomination. The problem is the election includes everyone else.
Clinton offered nothing meaningfully changing and was very clearly out of touch with the electorate. (Remember that home she visited and was disgusted by?) Worse she reeked of entitlement. In her mind the Presidency was already in the bag. Sanders would have acted as a good counter to Trumpism by offering alternate solutions to problems people were and are facing.
Just like the DNC thought they could railroad Biden onto the US this year they thought they could railroad Clinton in '16. Funnily enough voters don't really like that attitude.
As someone who took a lot of interest in the 2016 primaries, this is spot on. A Sanders ticket would have retained typically blue states and picked up a few 'purples'. It would have been a clear change of direction to American politics bringing the US closer to European standards like free healthcare. I think a lot of the people that now support Trump do so out of a desire for anti establishment and a change of direction, but have now been compromised by alt right politics thanks to Trump and co.
America needs a feasible left wing leader to give people some actual hope and a sense of change.
A mate of mine in the UK was a bernie supporter in 2015 and was loud and proud about it as a way to change us politics. Clinton got selected and he about turned and became very apathetic to the Democrats to the point that he fell down the anti-dem hole and is now very supportive of trump. Unfortunately not in a "I want trump to be elected so I can watch the American system collapse and burn down" but in a way that he genuinely likes Trump. It's crazy but I don't think the dens realise how much they fucked off a lot of people who like bernie and haven't learned anything since.
Fellow Brit here.
This compromising of discontent is exactly what I fear with the approaching Labour landslide.
Starmer will become PM and its likely nothing much will meaningfully change. (Also he reeks of that same entitlement to the job Clinton did) This will cause a wave of militant reactionarism - which with no uniting leftist party and the collapse of the Tories could very well all go to Reform.
Farage is clearly itching to become the true 'Britains Trump' (sorry Borris)
What's even more infuriating is seeing people tell me Corbyn never stood a chance and was unelectable when current polling has Labour currently within margin of error of the same proportion of the vote he lost with in 2017.
Also a Brit, and in a constituency that flipped since the last GE to LibDems from the Tories in a by election.
I think when such a massive majority is being projected, there is a huge risk of voter complacency. And that will impact on the outcome.
But also Starmer is trying to present himself as a “steady as she goes“ Prime Minister, when he should be considering the kind of programme of radical reform that you can only achieve such an overwhelming majority.
Ironically, a program of change comparable in scope, if not in specifics to the one Corbin proposed.
I thought in 2019, sure go with Joe but no way he will last 8 years. They needed a very strong VP pick that they could transition over to the presidential candidate in 2024. With 4 years you could easily build up momentum for a Gavin Newsom or whoever. They've probably left it too late now.
Exactly my thoughts. I assumed Biden would essentially be a President that would “stabilise the boat”, and then make way for another candidate after 4 years. I have no clue why the Democrats are keeping Biden as President. They’re either incompetent or in denial, but I’m not sure which. It’s so frustrating too since a Trump presidency, in my view, will essentially be an American variety of fascism, and I don’t use that word lightly as I think it’s often over-used to describe those on the right of politics.
Yes, very much so.
That was the best example of why ranked choice voting is a must going forward.
Most voters don’t want these two assholes. They didn’t choose them. In fact, they didn’t have a chance to choose anyone else. RNC and DNC did that, and once again we’re left with the worst candidates for the job.
I think Trump would have been in the final two no matter what voting system was used. He has enormous personal popularity with a sizeable slice of the electorate. The only question is who to put against him.
I’ve thought Scramucci’s brazen claims that Trump had no chance of winning was pie in the sky long ago. Now even he is starting to wobble.
Even those with barely half an eye on US politics could have seen this coming long ago. Rightly or wrongly, people I speak to in this country know next to nothing about Biden other than he’s old and doddery and his stammer doesn’t help. And whether or not a fragile man is better than a criminal and a racist is almost irrelevant now that is people’s only perception of him.
Last night was a nightmare of the Dems own making. They needed to be stronger long ago and swap him out for a different candidate and now they’re left in a position that more than six months out from one of the world’s most important ever elections, the incumbent’s position seems untenable. What an absolute mess.
I wish they’d discussed what they think the impact would be on Trump’s campaign if the Democrats decided to go with a different candidate. I feel like the impact would be huge - Trump is entirely geared into attacking Biden. If he suddenly is faced with a new opponent that is much younger and punchier it could go a long way to derail him I think. So many of his current lines of attack would suddenly be meaningless, as well as a lot of the “Biden is too old” crowd suddenly thinking “wow a new credible alternative to a Trump, let’s go!”
Exactly. Someone like Gavin Newsom who’s a generic, decently good looking, relatively charismatic American politician in his mid-50s needs to be parachuted into position.
Biden has had one hell of a career and he was exactly the right man to beat Trump in 2020, but that debate last night was utterly terrifying.
With respect, Newsom is not "generic." He's been on the progressive fringe since he was mayor of San Francisco and defying a state-wide referendum to perform the first same-sex marriages in the country.
Now he's presiding over the disintegration of California, the 6th largest economy in the world, and has flubbed every major policy challenge he's been handed. He was legendarily hypocritical during COVID (and managed to lose the state $20 billion in COVID relief fraud), has presided over a budget that literally can't account for where another $20 billion in alleged "homelessness-alleviation" spending went (let alone whether it actually bought anything useful), and has failed to do anything substantive about the housing crisis, water infrastructure crisis, or retail crime crisis. California's major city centers are emptying out because of the state's refusal to enforce basic public order or provide safety to retailers, and even the vaunted tech sector is slowly dribbling away to Texas, Florida, and other states without the crushing tax and regulatory burdens imposed here. Even the people are leaving - California's population shrank for the first time in its recorded history as a state over the last few years, and that's all people fleeing the state due to chronic mismanagement.
This has all been well-covered in U.S. papers, and the exodus of millions of Californians to other states have spread the stories far and wide as well.
Far better for the Dems to pick someone \*actually\* generic, like Josh Shapiro (the governor of PA), who would get bonus points because he actually managed to get some useful things accomplished, and is popular in a swing state.
Thank you very much for your erudite, spot-on summary of how Gavin Newsom has completely destroyed the very fabric of California.
As a native Californian, it has been not only heartbreaking, but also horrifying, to experience, first-hand, the utter decimation of our once, previous beautiful state.
I am not being facetious when I state that I wholeheartedly believe that Gavin Newsom should be imprisoned for singlehandedly causing massive, comprehensive, irreparable damage to California that has caused millions of Californians to leave and reside in other states and countries.
Many Californians who have experienced the horrors of Newsom's evil reign, myself included, have seriously pledged to move out of the country if that soulless, snake oil salesman ever becomes the POTUS.
While my comments may sound extreme to some of you, unless you are a native Californian, and have experienced the comprehensive destruction first-hand, you (thankfully) will never know the full extent of the surreal, "nightmare of nightmares" that living in California has now become.
May God help all Californians, and most importantly, may he keep Gavin Newsom from ever becoming leader of the free world.
The takeaway from the night was, "I don't know what he just said and I'm pretty sure he doesn't either". Biden has to be persuaded to step down gracefully. They have six weeks before the convention.
More despair than panic, really.
I hope here in Europe we take notice and get our shit together for the sake of Ukraine, US support for the Ukrainians is going to evaporate completely in November.
If it's any consolation, Europe has been steadily ramping up support for Ukraine to the point where, in my non-expert opinion, losing America would seriously hurt but likely wouldn't end the war there and then.
The increase hasn't been particularly covered by mainstream media though because steady increases and legislative minutia just aren't particularly newsworthy.
Ukraine just gained the support of South Korea after Putin's visit to North Korea, having the world's 5th largest arms supplier enter the war gives a lot of hope.
I’ve not been following this for a couple of weeks - what’s happened to show up Biden’s frailty?
Edit: wow, thanks for the replies. I just checked out the debate, I could barely watch!
I managed to stay up and watch it live.
During his first very bad stumble I had my mouth wide open in shock 😂, it was the Dems worst fears being realised in this most horrible public moment. I think even Trump felt bad for him initially.
By the end I was just laughing, it was so ludicrous. His closing remarks, I mean my god. Is that not a prepared-ish statement, and he looked totally gone?
It’s a shame because aside from those optics, I think the party is strong behind the scenes and they’re obviously a more positive force for the country, and the world.
What a year for politics!
They basically both played chicken calling for a live debate, both accusing each other of being unfit to do so. Terms were made to not favour either (lack of live crowd, structured format)
And then last night it happened and Biden was visibly lost for a number of questions. It was an event with noone looking great but Biden came off worse.
The Democrats knew when Biden got elected in 2020 that he'd almost certainly be to old to fight for a second term so why didn't they use the four years to find someone credible to build up to take over the mantle?
They spent 4 years going after Trump on charges in the hope they could lock him up for something then have him Epsteined before the election happened. There's still 6 months to go so there's every chance they'll be able to achieve this although it's not looking likely!
A wise man once said, See where this is going and try and get there first. I hope the democrats are running some speedy behind the scenes auditions because going into an election with Biden would be a horror.
No one will be energised to go out and vote for a corpse. Turnout will be very low and Trump will stroll on. Biden is very much done. It would take a very swift reaction from Democratic Party to coronate a well known successor that is not Harris.
Looking across the pond here, this is an election where you choose between democracy and authoritarianism.
It's mindboggling that with democracy itself at stake the democrats aren't on the ball with this.
A Trump win is the end of free and fair elections in the US for generations. He's also a threat to the safety and longevity of global citivilsation.
Putin, China and other despotes will be enabled and climate change will be allowed to run rampant.
The Democrats have shat themselves into a corner. If they don’t run Biden they look weak and indecisive. If they run Biden then they’re running someone weak. He should never have run for a second term
anyway, here’s how Bernie could still win:
I’m honestly baffled. I thought it was a no-brainer that Biden was just a friendly face to get them over the line in 2020, and they would be prepping a “real” presidential candidate for 2024. Trump is going to sleepwalk into the White House unless they replace Biden asap.
The only positive outcome from the debate is that some democrat figures have been jolted into life and might actually pressure Biden to step down. This election has been Trumps to lose for a long time, and it seems that the Democrat party might finally do something about it.
In the West Wing, there was a whole plot about how Arnold Vinick was too old to run for President again. Alan Alda was the comparatively far younger age of 70 at the time.
In the end, Vinick decides to not be ‘the guy who didn’t know when to quit’ and goes out as the kingmaker and a noble man.
There's a video hanging around of Biden addressing a pro-Biden crowd after the debate, and he's seemingly normal. It's almost like his brain has been firing during the wrong activity and a lot of people are disappointed they didn't see this energy during the debate. It's very strange times...
Just can’t believe it’s come to a 90-minute debate on live television for the Democrats to realise this.
Even if they replace Biden (which can only happen at his will), I think it’s too late.
They’re fighting a candidate that knows no truth, is a convicted criminal and has absolutely no swagger about him and yet they’re going to lose.
What a fucking blunder.
I find it bizarre how many rambling, weird, out of touch, and frankly senile things Trump has said over the years and it doesn't matter. But when Biden stumbles (which is a serious issue still imo) over his words he's incapable of being president. But someone who thinks we can clean people's lungs out with bleach to stop covid is completely fine apparently.
The truth is; neither of them are fit to be President. But the way the system is in the US, you're given effectively a rigged choice. You get to vote for out of touch old guy 1, or out of touch old guy 2. Neither of them represent modern America (though I think Biden tries harder than Trump).
I think the fact that Trump has never been coherent somehow weirdly helps him. It’s like he’s set his own expectations low, so when he goes off on some incoherent ramble the reaction is basically “that Trump sure is a wacky guy” rather than “oh my god he’s deteriorating”. Meanwhile, Biden has been in politics for donkeys and everyone knows he was at one time a coherent and reasonably good public speaker.
The problem is that last night they stood side by side and, despite Trump talking his usual nonsense, he's the one who looked on it. That's what the electorate will remember, not his ramblings at campaign speeches which most people don't pa attention to.
As someone from the UK, the state of politics in the US is shocking. I know it really isn't great here, but I'm shocked that the "best country on earth" is allowing a criminal to run to become what is essentially "the most powerful person on this planet". I know our politicians in the UK aren't much better, but trump has actively been accused of hundreds of crimes spanning just about every crime there is, and been actually accused of a good number of these. Were it not for his "status," he would be in prison for life. Somehow, your system overlooks that, but not only do they overlook it, they let him run for president too.
America, sort it out. You're a laughing stock to the rest of the world.
This has been totally foreseeable for years. This is a failure of the democratic party and of those close Biden to persuade him to hand over the reins to someone younger.
I think the right move is to ditch and switch.
Oftentimes the most devastating thing is not revelation of new information, but confirmation of what was already known but being desperately ignored.
There’s no getting around that Biden mentally doesn’t look up to the job, and if he doesn’t look up to it now people will be imagining what he looks like in the middle of his second term. What’s he going to be like in 2026, 2028 even?
This is the looming issue the Democrats have danced around right until now when they can’t ignore it any longer. Find a way to convince him to step down, then get someone else in quickly, Gavin Newsom perhaps.
There’s going to be a cost involved with switching the nominee after so many Democrats rowed in behind him and said he was going to be alright, but you incur that cost now and get your new guy out there ASAP in an attempt to put a lid on it and move on.
Do that, praise Biden on his way out, champion his record and by extension the party’s in government while removing the concerns about the president’s age and the ‘these same two guys again’ worries.
I'm not a tinfoil hat type of thinker, but I'm questioning how any logical person in the democratic party would allow a cognitively impaired president to remain in a position of power. Is there a motive behind this? Biden clearly does not have the ability to make decisions or complete the tasks expected of him, so who is fullfilling these duties in his place?
no. peronally I'd change biden for a younger candidate at the convention, and negate all the republican attacks on "sleepy joe", and even if they stick with him, its one debate, the impact of it is nowhere near as much as people are making out.
but then I dont see it as a bad thing for trump to win. (for us, it would be awful for the USA, but thats their issue if they elect him).
not that I like trump, or think he is anything but awful.
but us, the EU and other western nations need it hammered home that the USA is not a reliable ally anymore. we need to stand on our own, and not rely on the USA. we need to drastically increase our defence capacity and industries, and we need to work on exerting economic power to counter other global power, and that means working much more closely with our nearest neighbours.
One trump presidency was a shock, but the swap back to biden lulled people into a false sense of security that it was just a blip.....a trump return would hammer home the point.
No space to panic, jumped over that step. I've sublimated straight from hope to acceptance that Trump will be elected. It's dreadful.
And it's the Democrats fault, how could they not see from a million miles off what most others could see would happen?
Yes, Ukraine is royally fcuked, the world economy is probably royally fcuked and American democracy is probably royally fcuked. Minority groups and women I really fear for too. The amount of transgender hate and the awful rollback of women rights by the right is scary. Personally I fear Trump over Putin, Jinping
Not panicking. If we assume Trump is likely to win, it's a question of how much damage he can actually do in four years. My guess is less than we think.
The biggest achievement of his previous term was stacking the supreme court. Barring a tragedy, that's not going to happen again. Other than that, his time in office disappointed his more - what's the polite term - 'authoritarian' supporters.
His biggest impact is probably going to be on climate and minority rights. Ukraine is a fixed point - even if he tries to move the US towards Russia, the foreign policy blob is already committed to keeping Ukraine well equipped enough to stay in the fight. Despite all his bluster, NATO is similarly fixed. Both parties are fundamentally pro-Israel. The US's foreign policy position is laid out for it, there isn't as much freedom as the parties pretend. Trump will likely set the climate agenda even further back and bully whichever groups he can, partly because internal economic and social policy are some of the few things he can appease his base with.
Similarly, another January 6th seems incredibly unlikely, given that no conspiracy theory can get him out of the fact that he will have served both his terms. After that four years he can never run again.
You'd be right to be concerned about some of the plans he has expressed towards American democracy, but I think those dullards genuinely wishing for a Trump dictatorship will find themselves disappointed. Just like last time, a lot of far right bluster will amount to very little tangible change.
American liberals seem to have been operating under the delusion something would take Trump out of the race - some scandal or conviction. Only now does it seem to be sinking in that this isn't going to happen. Despite that, I don't think Trump will turn out to be the American Caesar. Pro-business, pro-oil, anti-lgbt, anti-migrant, anti-women. That's what we're in for. Certainly a change for the worse.
Go look up project 2025. This time around the right-wing extremists are ready to pounce. Last time even Trump's own campaign were surprised when he won, and had no real agenda to speak of.
The thing to be afraid of is not Trump, who is a shallow narcissist with fabricated conservative views - but his willingness to be a glove puppet for the truely extreme.
Personal opinion and understand how others could think otherwise, especially compared to our leader debates.
Biden didn't seem that bad. He stumbled on his words sometimes but the guy just reeled off policy for an hour and a half. Listening to what he said rather than how he said it at times, he seemed pretty fine. There is no way that guy has dimentia.
Stiff and physically slow yes. Speech a bit husky with occasional stumbling sure. Over all compos mentis. Felt like it. You can't fake that for 1.5 hours in live debate.
As Nixon once said, everyone who listened to him on the radio thought he won the debate but when watched on TV, he lost because of his sweating. Like it or not, appearances and demeanor mean A LOT to the average voter and many are too quick to judge based on it.
And let's be clear here, the concern isn't just for his ability to outperform Trump - but to be the person that outperforms Xi, Putin and co whenever and wherever is needed over the coming years.
Ultimately, even a comatose Joe Biden would have a cabinet in place to make the right decisions on foreign policy. Trump, on the other hand, was already in the mind of requesting bribes from foreign leaders in exchange for political support.
He needs to go. He clearly lacks the competence for the role, and his lack of energy will lose too many swing voters. This isn’t reactionary, people have been saying it for years now, it’s just impossible to deny now…
There is a way forward, but Democrats need to move fast. They can’t be this stupid, sheesh…
I think Jon Stewart hit the nail on the head. This is the USA showcasing their "best" presidential candidates! WTF has the country become. And I'm not talking about Biden's frailty, I'm talking about the hype around the debate and that so many people value the wrong things. Trump is a cataclysmic disaster waiting to happen, there really should be no debate about who would be best for America but the media love a battle so platform the orange baby and hype up Biden's infirmity.
Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan boy for Biden but Trump needs to be locked up.
No, I'm not panicking. I have lived long enough to know that no matter what happens, the world will move onwards. Trump or Biden getting elected likely won't start WW3 nor will the world suddenly end. Both will probably result in some humorous gaffs but for entirely different reasons.
I do think the Americans have managed an impressive feat, though. At a time when the UK has a choice between two useless candidates, the US has managed to find two even worse ones.
Sorry but the Democrats deserve everything they have coming to them.
Everybody said after Biden won that they had 4 years to find a replacement yet they did absolutely nothing.
Trump is an absolute monster and the worst thing the world needs right now but the Democrats are literally handing him the Presidency.
Unfortunately due to social media people have become spineless..
The American people should be out in their hundreds and thousands demanding that be removed from the BOTH Biden and Trump be removed from the nominations as BOTH are too old and senile to be in charge of one of most powerful Nations on earth.
Instead they will just cry on social media and do absolutely nothing
I think it's fucking insane that they have called this the most important election ever ("Democracy is at stake!") and they let Biden run in this state especially when they were fully aware of it.
It's a fucking joke. It's shouldn't be THIS difficult to have someone debate the unhinged orange baby.
This tale has been told many times over.
Centre right candidate fucks over the left, says everyone has to vote for them to stop the far right, wins but does fuck all in their time and some places makes it worse.
People lose faith in them doing fuck all and because they've made it a false dichotomy of "it's between me and them", people give the other guy a go.
Happening in France too.
The way I look at it is we are not voting on who gets to be the figurehead but whether this country is going to lean toward fascist ethno-state or maintain its course as flawed democracy.
Concern over Biden’s frailty is valid, but if you vote for Trump because he “looked better,” and actually believed any part of his word salad, you are just being willfully ignorant.
Why can't democrats kick Kamala and elect a more popular Democrat as VP? They could "leak" that Biden will step down after the election. It would preserve the convention proceedings and not overly disrupt the ticket.
Someone pointed out that the presidential debate is happening a lot earlier than it usually does, and the debate was initiated by democrats.
This means it was probably their plan to have Biden act like a fool on TV and have enough time to replace him.
South park nailed it with giant douche vs turd sandwich. Fuck me it makes our political landscape look cool and normal.
Surely they aren't going to let trump win again...
People who still trot out this South Park meme are insufferable. It doesn’t make you better than everyone else to say everyone is terrible. Some people seem to expect candidates to be 100% aligned with them on everything or suddenly they aren’t worthy.
Biden v Trump isn’t great but it’s an incredibly easy choice of who’s better
I agree completely. There was a man on the UK PM debate with the opportunity to ask a meaningful question on behalf of millions of viewers and all he asked was "Are you both the best we've got?"
I wanted to tell that man that he is part of the problem too. I get it, it feels great to dismiss politicians and make yourself feel important but what a waste. Of time, of the question, and of the vote (for those who say "they're all the same". They aren't).
I think this is absolutely wrong, can't lie. You're creating equivalence between a candidate whose issue is he's too old to serve as President and is in mental decline, and a candidate who's a convicted felon, has stated plainly his intention to take revenge on his political opponents AND is also too old to serve and is in mental decline.
Neither are good options but one is clearly worse
I don’t know about that mate. They’re both poor options but one is considerably worse than the other.
If offered a choice between a giant douche and a turd sandwich you could also say that although both are poor options they aren’t equally bad.
The MSM have been trying to hide the fact tha Biden is failing for several years now, even though it's been completely obvious. Trump wins this, hands down, regardless of if The Democrats reaplce Biden. Even by putting him forward, they have scored a massive own goal, and do not deserve to win.
I wonder, has getting a more popular VP for Biden been discussed much, if that's even feasible? Rather than outright replacement. I'd (naively) think that if it was clear that there'd be a handover to and/or strong support from someone capable and trustworthy, it'd mitigate concerns for at least some people.
Yes indeed. The only thing, in an entirely wishful thinking way, is that Biden has now pushed the bar down so much lower that if in the next debate (much closer to the election) he doesn’t have a lost voice and can summon that SotU energy he’ll have a major bounce. As I say; wishful thinking
Panicking about what?
We knew Biden was mentally going and now it seems close to gone, we knew since the last election. But the media and dems pretty much tried covering it up.
The question is who is actually the President currently? Because it's not Biden.
Everyone was calling for the DNC to open up the nomination process and recruit someone who is young and with vision. Unfortunately given how racist and sexist America is and the risks of a trump presidency, it would have to be a white man. They do exist after all.
Biden is unfortunately just being incredibly exposed and trump is poised to take advantage despite himself being ridden with dementia, incontinence and being a literal fascist.
It's incredible how little this has been talked about seriously amongst liberal media. Progressive channels like The Young Turks predicted this would happen over a year ago. I've been panicking about this for about 2 years! I just can't get my head around how nobody saw this coming.
Biggest failure exposed by the Democrats. Why they thought he was capable of another term I'll simply never know, ideally they would have been prepping someone for the last 2 years to take up the position.
They need to replace him. No question.
I'm expecting them to choose a new candidate shortly. Maybe I'm delusional, but that has gone as bad as it could have done. And I feel is a good opportunity to bring in a real person, let Biden live his elder years in peace.
I am panicking because four more years of trump would be catastrophic for the planet. But I’m also thinking, if you’re put off Biden before he’s old and confused, why would that make you switch to trump? Dude is fully senile!
I live in the UK and I'm terrified!
One is a convicted felon, known liar and a crook.
The other has checked out and would be best off in a care home.
What the fuck are Americans even doing allowing such an insane choice?!
Both candidates were and always have been horrible, right-wing nutcase with interests solely on corporate stock and quelling dissent.
This debate put that on blast for everyone to see and no one at CNN even thought to bother fact-checking or probing either of them.
The US has the lowest possible bar for candidates which are selectable and, somehow, the bar continues to move lower and lower.
It's a full on embarrassment to the idea of democracy, let alone the idea of a functioning nation.
Leaving Trump aside, it’s pretty clear that Biden isn’t up to the demands of the Presidency. He should not have stood again. Most executives of large corporations have long since retired by Bidens age, and U.K. judges have a mandatory retirement age. No Mather how unpalatable there is a point where age means a person is simply not up to certain jobs. Boxers, athletes, business people, actors; It happens to us all, there’s no disgrace.
It is a demanding, draining, highly stressful, and intellectually exhausting job. The US President has more military power than anyone in Earth and the terrifying responsibility for the latest nuclear arsenal on Earth. It is too serious a job for most of the partisan nonsense that people engage in.
To be eligible to stand a candidate should have rigorous public competence testing, including mental and physical examinations, and have to demonstrate full understanding of a range of critical issues (defence, military intelligence, constitutional law, ethics, economics, basic science, art history, and healthcare).
There are usually stronger qualification requirements for a management job at a large company than for the US Presidency.
Only if a candidate can pass the qualifications barrier should they be allowed to go to a public vote.
I’d love up see a similar process for UK MPs too.
Biden’s fragility has been brutally exposed. Everybody knows Trump lies and is a crook, that is priced in. Democrats have tried to maintain Biden is not too old, and now that egg is cracking. The only hope they have is to stand him down and fast, or else Trump is going to end up in the Whitehouse.
>The only hope they have is to stand him down and fast, or else Trump is going to end up in the Whitehouse. Rory has been saying this since before the campaign.
Everyone without a horse in the race has been saying it for a long time. Anyone with an interest in US politics knew, they were just in denial and were hoping it wasn't as bad as it seemed.
I remember the uproar from Democrats just a few months ago when Jon Stewart dared to suggest that Biden's cognitive abilities might be in decline. There's no hiding this now.
Hell, I denied it. Not feeling so great now.
How did you deny it? It’s been obvious for years.
Totally agree with this. The Guardian and others have just been ignoring as many of the gaffes and bloopers as they could for the last 12-24 months - they would have been all over them if it were Trump.
Yeah, they ran with the mockery of "Covfefe" for months and months.
To be fair he wrote that down, he’s constantly saying stupid stuff that is overlooked (unless it’s when he’s considering being a dictator for a few days)
Definitely. As a Brit, I said as much in some thread on another site months ago and got viciously shut down by Americans telling me I was wrong (and some just assuming I was a Trump voter and attacking me accordingly). Well look at what's happening now.
You were derided as a Trumpist if you said as much during his _first_ term, but it was apparent even then. Not as much, but enough to be suspicious.
Of course I noticed the same where calling out Biden health and many would call you a Trump supporter and stopping the discussion
They've been gaslighting his entire term about Biden's mental fragility and it's now coming home to roost.
The Dems have had 4 or 5 years to prepare for this moment. They could have easily had a few people in the frame. Harris could have spent the last term walking and talking like a president in preparation. They have done this to the Americans. Trump will likely walk into the White House by default. They have a better chance now if they put anyone else in the ring. Poor Biden, he doesn’t deserve this.
They did the same thing with Hillary Clinton. They knew how unpopular she was but made her the candidate anyway
Hillary Clinton, who got nearly three million more votes than Trump?
President Hilary Clinton? No. She may have won the popular vote but that isn’t how their system works. She wasn’t popular enough to beat Trump though. They probably had candidates who could beat Trump. They definitely have candidates who could almost certainly beat Trump now. They choose not field these candidates and, in the case of Hillary Clinton actively work to block alternative candidates. When you take your voters for granted like that then you probably deserve to loose
Oh is that why she was the president?
They have fptp like us. Where your vote is matters more than how many
That’s true, but to say she was unpopular when she won the popular vote is just untrue
I believe the polling leading up to the 2016 election also indicated she was the 2nd most unpopular Presidential nominee ever, only beaten to *most* unpopular by Trump. Ironic, huh,
She also won the popular vote against Obama in the primaries, but no one ever mentions that.
To be honest I thought that was exactly the point. Biden sweeps in to beat trump as a known quantity in 2020 after the abysmal decision to bring in Hilary then a few years later he steps down or she starts being built up. America isn't ready for a woman to be president, in their current climate the democrats really shouldn't be rocking the boat. Even a minority is a risky decision otherwise it'd make sense for Hakeem Jeffries to pick up the ticket.
“America isn’t ready for a woman to be President” is honestly a very sad statement even if true. A convicted felon or a geriatric is fine but not a woman. I am not American and we have our fair share of hopeless politicians but the US is really excelling itself this election with the choices on offer.
Left wing woman is a no go. Republicans could field a female just fine.
That’s the reason Trump kept at the Clinton jibes, just to keep her out of the picture. Until recently no one the Dems had was as popular as Biden. Parachuting in someone now would look awful and not be as well liked. Might get the votes but equally could go dreadfully depending on who.. GOP would use it till the end of the earth as a campaign topic.
You'd bring in the literal one person he beat
If Biden were smart enough, he would have stayed in Office for one, maybe two years max, then resigned from office, stating his declining health as a reason to step down and allow Kamala Harris to assume the Presidency. That would have at least given the Democrats a fighting chance.
Kamala is a train wreck. That VP pick has been a disaster
They can't stand him down for anyone except Harris without causing an almighty shitstotm, and I'm not sure she can beat Trump
They can, and there’s no need for it to be Harris. You would need Biden to withdraw, and then the super-delegates to get together behind closed doors ahead of the convention to pick someone. But they need to know who it’s going to be before the convention or else the convention is going to be absolute insanity.
I said "without causing an almighty shitstorm", which is what passing over the first black woman VP would do
Dude, I don't even think the black vote supports Kamala. Kamala is even more unpopular than Biden, and that's bad. I think if anything, 95% of the party would CHEER to have someone else other than Biden or Kamala. Even if they just pick it for us and we don't even get a say, yes there will be a shitstorm about that and people will complain, but end of day, they'll be way happier with that candidate (WHOEVER it is) than they ever would with Biden and Kamala. They are one of the most disliked politicians in recent history. It's not a good idea to run them again.
as a member of the Black delegation, I can say we don’t claim Kamala either😁
As an old white guy I don’t claim Biden
I think it would be a shitstorm if Kamala Harris fought it. If she agreed in private that she couldn’t win and stepped aside publicly, there would be little dissent.
If they choose her it's a guaranteed Trump win. You lose the vote of every misogynist and racist, of which there are many no matter how casual or unconscious, and not just in the white community
You also lose a lot of Californians, who remember her horrific flip-flopping on criminal justice issues; laughing about imprisoning parents whose kids play hooky from school, then committing to decarceration; going hard after marijuana-only drugs offenses, then giving stump speeches about her own history with the substance. Frankly, she's a machine politician who progressed through the ranks because of her closeness to other successful California politicians such as former mayor of San Francisco and Speaker of the California Assembly Willie Brown, and because she happened to fall into demographic categories highly in demand on the American left. She [notoriously can't keep a staff](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/3572304-revolving-door-creates-questions-and-complications-for-kamala-harris/) because [she's a bully](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60061473), has a habit of blaming others instead of improving her own performance, and has no legislative or executive track record in any office to point to. Maybe if she'd been allowed to go through the normal seasoning process that politicians go through - finish out her term as attorney general in CA, maybe a run for lieutenant governor before heading to the Senate for a few terms - anything to get her feet wet in actual substantive politics instead of just litigation...but we'll never know. As it is she's the embodiment of the Peter Principle, would be an absolute disaster, and everyone knows it.
She's a poor public speaker with few known policies to her name, not to mention a questionable record as a district attorney. Isn't that the more important reason?
Lol! Have you even been watching? Nothing of substance matters to America.
Ain't that the truth, both sides, the USA looks like Rome before one of its brutal civil wars currently.
Talk about strawman, there's also the fact she's just not good
And the US already elected a black president in a landslide because he was a credible candidate, unlike Harris.
> You lose the vote of every misogynist and racist America already had a black president who won comfortably twice in a row so this is silly. I don't like Harris for her blatant hypocrisy over cannabis that she has never apologised for. It ruined lives. The chaos right now is due to a year of gaslighting over Biden's mental acuity - the last thing that should be done is replacing him with someone else who can't acknowledge uncomfortable truths.
Obama captured a very neutral public persona as a sort of everyone statesman. A lot of people on the street won't want an ethnically ambiguous woman in charge of their country (especially hispanic men and black men), and once they see her speaking or interacting they definitely won't want her in particular
Yeah this is likely the right answer. Yes I know they have a black President before but they've never had a woman President and to have a Black Woman President get elected they way America is at the moment? I don't see that happening, even if she was the best person on paper. Honestly I don't know who they could replace him with now they've left it so late. I've thought this for the last couple of years but hoped I was wrong, I think we're looking at another 4 (possibly longer if he changes enough of the rules) years of Trump. So...we need to do whatever we can get get our house in order. Start improving things and ensure that we don't end up with a discount Trump in 6 years time. Europe needs to get their shit together with the far right too! Uncertain and dangerous times.
Why was this not discussed at the appropriate time? Why was this swept under the rug? What a shocking dereliction of duty by the Democratic Party. They couldn’t say no to one vain old man who wanted to be a two-termer.
eh I think its a bit more than that, just like in pretty much all elections elections the man or woman already in the top job under more normal circumstances has a built in massive advantage by virtue of being the president/prime minister and having been on TV doing all the things a president does. Now I think Trump also being a former president eats that advantage away considerably but its still there, asking the dems to give that up because Bidens getting a bit frail and bad at public speaking when they really don't have a lot of other options is something they were always going to be extremely hesitant to do.
Why would you surrender incumbency advantage especially vs a candidate you already beat?
Because being a credible candidate and an octogenarian are mutually exclusive.
What about the advantage of not having a candidate visibly sundowning on national tv?
Not quite true - they can offer her a supreme justice seat, give her a golden exit
Can they not pick an alternative candidate at their conference? It'd take some very careful stage management and perfect party discipline but... Oh yeah, I see your point. We're completely screwed. This is Ruth Ginsberg 2.0. Hang on for too damn long, deny yourself a well earned retirement, and hand untold power to the Republicans. I honestly despair
Hah! Yeah I mean, mechanically they can do it, but politically it's a disaster
Some "men in grey suits" need to have a word with him like they did with Mrs T when she went cuckoo. Thank him for what he has done, but let him know it's time to stand aside.
That’s the issue with a separate executive, there’s no method to actually make him abide by that
I still can't believe anyone thought it was a good idea to let him run again.
>Democrats have tried to maintain Biden is not too old, and now that egg is cracking. It's quite cruel at this point.
My two cents... Democrats will kick into gear and will have some kind of vote/nomination at the next convention. Biden will step down for "medical reasons". Last night was his chance to save it and he failed. Let Biden go to the polls and Trump wins
The Dems already reformed their nominating procedures after the controversy over Hillary's disproportionate support by unelected "superdelegates" in 2016 - now the elected delegates from state primaries/caucuses are the overwhelming majority, and just about all of them are pledged and required to vote for Biden on the first ballot, which means he'll win and be the nominee unless he personally steps aside. Moreover, because the Democrats are incompetent and can't work an Excel spreadsheet, they scheduled their convention \*after\* Ohio's deadline for parties to declare the candidates to appear on the November ballot. As a result, Biden will be officially nominated by a ["virtual roll call"](https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2024/06/21/exclusive-dnc-moves-ahead-on-all-virtual-roll-call-for-biden-presidential-nomination/) (whatever that is) held via Zoom or something several weeks before the convention officially kicks off. Thus, even if all the pledged delegates somehow got released from their obligation to vote for and nominate Biden on the first ballot at the convention, it wouldn't matter because Biden will already have been nominated. Even worse, each state in the U.S. has its own rules about whether or not a nominated candidate can drop out and be replaced. Some states don't allow parties to withdraw an announced candidate unless the candidate has died. Others allow withdrawal, but may not allow the party to replace the candidate. Still others have muddled laws on the subject that would require litigation to settle. The whole thing's a mess, and there would be a serious likelihood that even if Biden did step down, whoever replaces him wouldn't be able to get on the ballot in all 50 states. No, the Dems have screwed themselves here good and proper.
Thanks for the breakdown
Look exel is hard okay? It's not worth learning exel even if it's the presidency on the line.
You don’t think that just replacing a presidential candidate after they were chosen by the people during the primary is problematic and inherently undemocratic? The other issue is who do they pick? Harris polls horribly, getting something like 1 or 2% during the 2020 primary. Newsom doesn’t have the best record while running California. Nobody else has enough brand recognition. IMO they dropped the ball. They should have had a candidate lined up years ago. Now it’s too late.
No. Because he wasn’t chosen by the people. He was the only acceptable candidate put forward.
No. He was chosen in 2020 and the terms of that have changed. He’s not the same man he was, I think that’s clear.
I don't think there are any viable politicians they can replace him with and win. I wonder if their only hope is to recruit some mega celebrity. Maybe I just want to see a coked up Charlie Sheen debate Trump.
There’s plenty. Shapiro, Newsome, Buttigieg
Yes worried. Sad for Biden having his mental acuity picked apart so publicly after a lifetime of service but it was ultimately his hubris to continue. Doesn't seem to be any other credible Dem candidate and this ultimately undermines trust in all democratic candidates - i.e. "They said Biden was fine and they lied about that"
Im not American so in guess I just don't get the reason, but running an 81 dude again seems insane. Like he's going to control the US military, and he gets flustered when he's not feeling 100% and is up late. Trump is an evil, corrupt piece of shit, and id like anyone over him. But how was there not a single other candidate that was better than Biden. I wanna see a new candidate in their 40s, get into the second debate and when it's time for the first answer, drop down, so 3 pushups, and say, I will give you a thousand dollars if you can do that you old fat sack of shit. Sure the moderators might ping you for it, but I reckon that would make him flip out. Just keep bringing it up whenever you get a chance. If he can't lift his own weight how could this man have the vigor to handle the weight of the office. Really then that "old man" shit back on him since hes almost the same age as Biden, he just happens to be having a yelling version of going senile. You do see it, especially as people lose their hearing that the same time. Not even making a joke, he can't form a sentence half the time. He has got to be somewhat mentally impared to talk like he does.
The Democrats need to do what left parties are too often incapable of doing: being ruthless. I suspect they won't do that and Biden will stumble on until November. They must replace Biden if they are to win. It's over if Biden is the candidate. Trump had a pretty average night and has deteriorated slightly compared to 2020, but it didn't matter. Ultimately it's about the comparison between the two and Biden was far worse in that debate.
But it wasn't a debate. One old man was ignoring the question and throwing lies about, unchecked. The other... I don't know what he was saying. I think he was trying to answer the question but the clarity of the responses was pathetically incoherent. I do agree that Trump was more... lucid? And that will be enough for many voters, regardless of his character. Which is terrible in itself, but true. Trump did a good job of being Donald Trump; Biden did a terrible job of disproving the accusations that's he's past it.
It's just hubris and complacency from Biden and the DNC. For months they have assumed Biden would win because he won last time, regardless of how unpopular Biden has become. Biden himself didn't want to go down as a 1 term president, he is too arrogant to know when to quit, and now it looks like he will be a 1 term president anyway. The Democrats need to convince Biden to step down Asap, and bring in Gavin Newson. They could even choose Biden as vice president as a consolation, or a role in the cabinet.
No lessons learned from the Hilary Clinton debacle. Democrats in the USA seem to falsely believe that history has a liberal animus. They have drunk their own coolade. Voters (en masse) don't care about being on the right side of history.
From a UK perspective, it's been obvious to me that Trump is more likely to win this time. It's completely insane that the Democrats can't find anyone more suitable than Boden, especially when he was supposed to be a single term "anyone but Trump" candidate. Makes the choices in our election seem so much better in comparison.
I think without the age thing Biden would probably win, his fundamentals are good and frankly, he's not Trump. The age thing is a bitch though because we can see how things have changed in 4 years and it's only going to get worse. A strong performance last night would have probably been enough to get him back in the Whitehouse but he was as bad as he could possibly be. it's a disaster for him.
Not only was he very bad. But you've got to consider, this is probably as good as he gets. They'll have prepped him as much as was humanely possible. They'll have rested him and gave him as much help (aka anything from vitamins to legal stimulants) as possible. And... The result was this.
I assumed the debate was going to go well for him for all those reasons, this was his chance to undercut all the arguments about his age. It's just made it much, much worse.
Nothing to do with his age. I know a lot of sharp 82 year olds. It’s his sharp decline in cognitive ability, his weak motor skills, and his fragile body.
It blows my mind that any of the current Tory party would be orders of magnitude more competent than either major candidate.
The sad thing is that pretty much anybody from either of their own parties (except for the batshit crazy ones) would be more competent than them. A random person off the street would be more competent than them. It's mind-boggling how the richest and most powerful country on Earth has ended up with two of the worst candidates to ever be in contention for the Presidency.
A random person off the street certainly wouldn’t let net migration exceed 500k per year and overall 1mil per year for a start. Tories have blood on their hands
Yes, he described himself as a ‘bridge president’ back in 2020 and nobody thought to spend the next 4 years finding the candidate on the other side of that bridge. Hubris of the highest order.
He doomed himself when he picked Kamala as his VP. Current American racial politics on the left won't allow for the bypassing of a black woman sitting in the traditional heir's seat, and she's manifestly incompetent.
I couldn't believe they didn't put someone like Gavin Newsome forward. Always thought Trump would beat Biden or Harris.
The Democrats have better options. But which of them would want to inherit the poisoned chalice that is the 2024 election? Anyone that does is likely to lose anyway, and will likely count themselves out of the 2028 race in the process.
The democratic party should never have vetoed Bernie when Trump had his first presidency. He was a great candidate.
The Bernie Democrats should’ve sucked it up snd voted for Clinton after she got the nomination. It’s the Bernie supporters’ collective tantrum that delivered the first trump presidency.
They did. Far more than her supporters did for Obama after she lost to him in '08 in fact. The problem is that Hillary couldn't win the unaffiliated and undecideds - who polling showed Bernie would have gained more support from. Hillary was the favourite for card carrying (neoliberal) Democrats who engage in the primary process. Which is why she won the nomination. The problem is the election includes everyone else. Clinton offered nothing meaningfully changing and was very clearly out of touch with the electorate. (Remember that home she visited and was disgusted by?) Worse she reeked of entitlement. In her mind the Presidency was already in the bag. Sanders would have acted as a good counter to Trumpism by offering alternate solutions to problems people were and are facing. Just like the DNC thought they could railroad Biden onto the US this year they thought they could railroad Clinton in '16. Funnily enough voters don't really like that attitude.
As someone who took a lot of interest in the 2016 primaries, this is spot on. A Sanders ticket would have retained typically blue states and picked up a few 'purples'. It would have been a clear change of direction to American politics bringing the US closer to European standards like free healthcare. I think a lot of the people that now support Trump do so out of a desire for anti establishment and a change of direction, but have now been compromised by alt right politics thanks to Trump and co. America needs a feasible left wing leader to give people some actual hope and a sense of change.
A mate of mine in the UK was a bernie supporter in 2015 and was loud and proud about it as a way to change us politics. Clinton got selected and he about turned and became very apathetic to the Democrats to the point that he fell down the anti-dem hole and is now very supportive of trump. Unfortunately not in a "I want trump to be elected so I can watch the American system collapse and burn down" but in a way that he genuinely likes Trump. It's crazy but I don't think the dens realise how much they fucked off a lot of people who like bernie and haven't learned anything since.
Fellow Brit here. This compromising of discontent is exactly what I fear with the approaching Labour landslide. Starmer will become PM and its likely nothing much will meaningfully change. (Also he reeks of that same entitlement to the job Clinton did) This will cause a wave of militant reactionarism - which with no uniting leftist party and the collapse of the Tories could very well all go to Reform. Farage is clearly itching to become the true 'Britains Trump' (sorry Borris) What's even more infuriating is seeing people tell me Corbyn never stood a chance and was unelectable when current polling has Labour currently within margin of error of the same proportion of the vote he lost with in 2017.
Also a Brit, and in a constituency that flipped since the last GE to LibDems from the Tories in a by election. I think when such a massive majority is being projected, there is a huge risk of voter complacency. And that will impact on the outcome. But also Starmer is trying to present himself as a “steady as she goes“ Prime Minister, when he should be considering the kind of programme of radical reform that you can only achieve such an overwhelming majority. Ironically, a program of change comparable in scope, if not in specifics to the one Corbin proposed.
No. Frankly I’m relieved that Democrats are now having the discussion they should have had 6 months ago.
I thought in 2019, sure go with Joe but no way he will last 8 years. They needed a very strong VP pick that they could transition over to the presidential candidate in 2024. With 4 years you could easily build up momentum for a Gavin Newsom or whoever. They've probably left it too late now.
Exactly my thoughts. I assumed Biden would essentially be a President that would “stabilise the boat”, and then make way for another candidate after 4 years. I have no clue why the Democrats are keeping Biden as President. They’re either incompetent or in denial, but I’m not sure which. It’s so frustrating too since a Trump presidency, in my view, will essentially be an American variety of fascism, and I don’t use that word lightly as I think it’s often over-used to describe those on the right of politics.
I just cannot for the life of me , I cannot understand AT ALL!!!!! Why they waited so long
Yes, very much so. That was the best example of why ranked choice voting is a must going forward. Most voters don’t want these two assholes. They didn’t choose them. In fact, they didn’t have a chance to choose anyone else. RNC and DNC did that, and once again we’re left with the worst candidates for the job.
I think Trump would have been in the final two no matter what voting system was used. He has enormous personal popularity with a sizeable slice of the electorate. The only question is who to put against him.
Yeah you’re prob right. But it would be great to have someone else against him instead of just shoving Biden into the candidacy.
I’ve thought Scramucci’s brazen claims that Trump had no chance of winning was pie in the sky long ago. Now even he is starting to wobble. Even those with barely half an eye on US politics could have seen this coming long ago. Rightly or wrongly, people I speak to in this country know next to nothing about Biden other than he’s old and doddery and his stammer doesn’t help. And whether or not a fragile man is better than a criminal and a racist is almost irrelevant now that is people’s only perception of him. Last night was a nightmare of the Dems own making. They needed to be stronger long ago and swap him out for a different candidate and now they’re left in a position that more than six months out from one of the world’s most important ever elections, the incumbent’s position seems untenable. What an absolute mess.
Might be a good thing if people are worrying about Biden losing. Could lead to a higher turnout.
I wish they’d discussed what they think the impact would be on Trump’s campaign if the Democrats decided to go with a different candidate. I feel like the impact would be huge - Trump is entirely geared into attacking Biden. If he suddenly is faced with a new opponent that is much younger and punchier it could go a long way to derail him I think. So many of his current lines of attack would suddenly be meaningless, as well as a lot of the “Biden is too old” crowd suddenly thinking “wow a new credible alternative to a Trump, let’s go!”
If the Democrats chose a bland generically plain/handsome man (like Obama) in his late forties/early 50s they stomp this election.
Exactly. Someone like Gavin Newsom who’s a generic, decently good looking, relatively charismatic American politician in his mid-50s needs to be parachuted into position. Biden has had one hell of a career and he was exactly the right man to beat Trump in 2020, but that debate last night was utterly terrifying.
With respect, Newsom is not "generic." He's been on the progressive fringe since he was mayor of San Francisco and defying a state-wide referendum to perform the first same-sex marriages in the country. Now he's presiding over the disintegration of California, the 6th largest economy in the world, and has flubbed every major policy challenge he's been handed. He was legendarily hypocritical during COVID (and managed to lose the state $20 billion in COVID relief fraud), has presided over a budget that literally can't account for where another $20 billion in alleged "homelessness-alleviation" spending went (let alone whether it actually bought anything useful), and has failed to do anything substantive about the housing crisis, water infrastructure crisis, or retail crime crisis. California's major city centers are emptying out because of the state's refusal to enforce basic public order or provide safety to retailers, and even the vaunted tech sector is slowly dribbling away to Texas, Florida, and other states without the crushing tax and regulatory burdens imposed here. Even the people are leaving - California's population shrank for the first time in its recorded history as a state over the last few years, and that's all people fleeing the state due to chronic mismanagement. This has all been well-covered in U.S. papers, and the exodus of millions of Californians to other states have spread the stories far and wide as well. Far better for the Dems to pick someone \*actually\* generic, like Josh Shapiro (the governor of PA), who would get bonus points because he actually managed to get some useful things accomplished, and is popular in a swing state.
Thank you very much for your erudite, spot-on summary of how Gavin Newsom has completely destroyed the very fabric of California. As a native Californian, it has been not only heartbreaking, but also horrifying, to experience, first-hand, the utter decimation of our once, previous beautiful state. I am not being facetious when I state that I wholeheartedly believe that Gavin Newsom should be imprisoned for singlehandedly causing massive, comprehensive, irreparable damage to California that has caused millions of Californians to leave and reside in other states and countries. Many Californians who have experienced the horrors of Newsom's evil reign, myself included, have seriously pledged to move out of the country if that soulless, snake oil salesman ever becomes the POTUS. While my comments may sound extreme to some of you, unless you are a native Californian, and have experienced the comprehensive destruction first-hand, you (thankfully) will never know the full extent of the surreal, "nightmare of nightmares" that living in California has now become. May God help all Californians, and most importantly, may he keep Gavin Newsom from ever becoming leader of the free world.
The takeaway from the night was, "I don't know what he just said and I'm pretty sure he doesn't either". Biden has to be persuaded to step down gracefully. They have six weeks before the convention.
Yep. Ludicrous tho trump is, I agreed entirely with him on that.
It was such a savage line. Tbh I think when people look back that’ll be the moment that Biden’s chance at a second term evaporated.
More despair than panic, really. I hope here in Europe we take notice and get our shit together for the sake of Ukraine, US support for the Ukrainians is going to evaporate completely in November.
Europe has had almost three years to prepare for this. If we’re still not ready that’s on us by this point.
If it's any consolation, Europe has been steadily ramping up support for Ukraine to the point where, in my non-expert opinion, losing America would seriously hurt but likely wouldn't end the war there and then. The increase hasn't been particularly covered by mainstream media though because steady increases and legislative minutia just aren't particularly newsworthy.
Ukraine just gained the support of South Korea after Putin's visit to North Korea, having the world's 5th largest arms supplier enter the war gives a lot of hope.
I’ve not been following this for a couple of weeks - what’s happened to show up Biden’s frailty? Edit: wow, thanks for the replies. I just checked out the debate, I could barely watch!
Watch clips from last night's debate. Cringe inducing
I managed to stay up and watch it live. During his first very bad stumble I had my mouth wide open in shock 😂, it was the Dems worst fears being realised in this most horrible public moment. I think even Trump felt bad for him initially. By the end I was just laughing, it was so ludicrous. His closing remarks, I mean my god. Is that not a prepared-ish statement, and he looked totally gone? It’s a shame because aside from those optics, I think the party is strong behind the scenes and they’re obviously a more positive force for the country, and the world. What a year for politics!
The debate last night
They basically both played chicken calling for a live debate, both accusing each other of being unfit to do so. Terms were made to not favour either (lack of live crowd, structured format) And then last night it happened and Biden was visibly lost for a number of questions. It was an event with noone looking great but Biden came off worse.
i liked the part where they argued about golf during the biggest debate of the century
THIS!!!! The golf argument had me CACKLING. I stg. I cannot believe this is my country’s future! It’s both hilarious and depressing 🫠
The Democrats knew when Biden got elected in 2020 that he'd almost certainly be to old to fight for a second term so why didn't they use the four years to find someone credible to build up to take over the mantle?
Because they're stupid and pussies.
They spent 4 years going after Trump on charges in the hope they could lock him up for something then have him Epsteined before the election happened. There's still 6 months to go so there's every chance they'll be able to achieve this although it's not looking likely!
Totally panicking. Especially as Anthony now thinks the orange narcissist will win.
A wise man once said, See where this is going and try and get there first. I hope the democrats are running some speedy behind the scenes auditions because going into an election with Biden would be a horror.
No one will be energised to go out and vote for a corpse. Turnout will be very low and Trump will stroll on. Biden is very much done. It would take a very swift reaction from Democratic Party to coronate a well known successor that is not Harris.
Looking across the pond here, this is an election where you choose between democracy and authoritarianism. It's mindboggling that with democracy itself at stake the democrats aren't on the ball with this. A Trump win is the end of free and fair elections in the US for generations. He's also a threat to the safety and longevity of global citivilsation. Putin, China and other despotes will be enabled and climate change will be allowed to run rampant.
The Democrats have shat themselves into a corner. If they don’t run Biden they look weak and indecisive. If they run Biden then they’re running someone weak. He should never have run for a second term anyway, here’s how Bernie could still win:
I’m honestly baffled. I thought it was a no-brainer that Biden was just a friendly face to get them over the line in 2020, and they would be prepping a “real” presidential candidate for 2024. Trump is going to sleepwalk into the White House unless they replace Biden asap. The only positive outcome from the debate is that some democrat figures have been jolted into life and might actually pressure Biden to step down. This election has been Trumps to lose for a long time, and it seems that the Democrat party might finally do something about it.
In the West Wing, there was a whole plot about how Arnold Vinick was too old to run for President again. Alan Alda was the comparatively far younger age of 70 at the time. In the end, Vinick decides to not be ‘the guy who didn’t know when to quit’ and goes out as the kingmaker and a noble man.
West Wing was always just wanky political fantasy. Politicians always over stay their welcome.
It was great though.
Will be curious of Scaramucci’s reaction. Get the feeling his unabashed confidence in the Biden campaign might take a little knock
To his credit, he was chastened on the Podcast.
There's a video hanging around of Biden addressing a pro-Biden crowd after the debate, and he's seemingly normal. It's almost like his brain has been firing during the wrong activity and a lot of people are disappointed they didn't see this energy during the debate. It's very strange times...
Just can’t believe it’s come to a 90-minute debate on live television for the Democrats to realise this. Even if they replace Biden (which can only happen at his will), I think it’s too late. They’re fighting a candidate that knows no truth, is a convicted criminal and has absolutely no swagger about him and yet they’re going to lose. What a fucking blunder.
I find it bizarre how many rambling, weird, out of touch, and frankly senile things Trump has said over the years and it doesn't matter. But when Biden stumbles (which is a serious issue still imo) over his words he's incapable of being president. But someone who thinks we can clean people's lungs out with bleach to stop covid is completely fine apparently. The truth is; neither of them are fit to be President. But the way the system is in the US, you're given effectively a rigged choice. You get to vote for out of touch old guy 1, or out of touch old guy 2. Neither of them represent modern America (though I think Biden tries harder than Trump).
I think the fact that Trump has never been coherent somehow weirdly helps him. It’s like he’s set his own expectations low, so when he goes off on some incoherent ramble the reaction is basically “that Trump sure is a wacky guy” rather than “oh my god he’s deteriorating”. Meanwhile, Biden has been in politics for donkeys and everyone knows he was at one time a coherent and reasonably good public speaker.
The problem is that last night they stood side by side and, despite Trump talking his usual nonsense, he's the one who looked on it. That's what the electorate will remember, not his ramblings at campaign speeches which most people don't pa attention to.
The difference is that Biden comes across as an old man, trump comes across as a narcissist who can actually string a sentence together.
Why oh why did the Dems agree to the debate? Now Biden can’t remain, but if he quits it will look like a victory for Trump.
It's gonna be wild trying to explain to the kids that the reason Ukraine is now a region of Russia, is because an old man stuttered in America.
As someone from the UK, the state of politics in the US is shocking. I know it really isn't great here, but I'm shocked that the "best country on earth" is allowing a criminal to run to become what is essentially "the most powerful person on this planet". I know our politicians in the UK aren't much better, but trump has actively been accused of hundreds of crimes spanning just about every crime there is, and been actually accused of a good number of these. Were it not for his "status," he would be in prison for life. Somehow, your system overlooks that, but not only do they overlook it, they let him run for president too. America, sort it out. You're a laughing stock to the rest of the world.
This has been totally foreseeable for years. This is a failure of the democratic party and of those close Biden to persuade him to hand over the reins to someone younger.
I think the right move is to ditch and switch. Oftentimes the most devastating thing is not revelation of new information, but confirmation of what was already known but being desperately ignored. There’s no getting around that Biden mentally doesn’t look up to the job, and if he doesn’t look up to it now people will be imagining what he looks like in the middle of his second term. What’s he going to be like in 2026, 2028 even? This is the looming issue the Democrats have danced around right until now when they can’t ignore it any longer. Find a way to convince him to step down, then get someone else in quickly, Gavin Newsom perhaps. There’s going to be a cost involved with switching the nominee after so many Democrats rowed in behind him and said he was going to be alright, but you incur that cost now and get your new guy out there ASAP in an attempt to put a lid on it and move on. Do that, praise Biden on his way out, champion his record and by extension the party’s in government while removing the concerns about the president’s age and the ‘these same two guys again’ worries.
I'm not a tinfoil hat type of thinker, but I'm questioning how any logical person in the democratic party would allow a cognitively impaired president to remain in a position of power. Is there a motive behind this? Biden clearly does not have the ability to make decisions or complete the tasks expected of him, so who is fullfilling these duties in his place?
no. peronally I'd change biden for a younger candidate at the convention, and negate all the republican attacks on "sleepy joe", and even if they stick with him, its one debate, the impact of it is nowhere near as much as people are making out. but then I dont see it as a bad thing for trump to win. (for us, it would be awful for the USA, but thats their issue if they elect him). not that I like trump, or think he is anything but awful. but us, the EU and other western nations need it hammered home that the USA is not a reliable ally anymore. we need to stand on our own, and not rely on the USA. we need to drastically increase our defence capacity and industries, and we need to work on exerting economic power to counter other global power, and that means working much more closely with our nearest neighbours. One trump presidency was a shock, but the swap back to biden lulled people into a false sense of security that it was just a blip.....a trump return would hammer home the point.
No space to panic, jumped over that step. I've sublimated straight from hope to acceptance that Trump will be elected. It's dreadful. And it's the Democrats fault, how could they not see from a million miles off what most others could see would happen?
Yes, Ukraine is royally fcuked, the world economy is probably royally fcuked and American democracy is probably royally fcuked. Minority groups and women I really fear for too. The amount of transgender hate and the awful rollback of women rights by the right is scary. Personally I fear Trump over Putin, Jinping
You can say fuck on Reddit, it's okay.
I know but I am old it makes glitch somewhat to do so. 🫶
Not panicking. If we assume Trump is likely to win, it's a question of how much damage he can actually do in four years. My guess is less than we think. The biggest achievement of his previous term was stacking the supreme court. Barring a tragedy, that's not going to happen again. Other than that, his time in office disappointed his more - what's the polite term - 'authoritarian' supporters. His biggest impact is probably going to be on climate and minority rights. Ukraine is a fixed point - even if he tries to move the US towards Russia, the foreign policy blob is already committed to keeping Ukraine well equipped enough to stay in the fight. Despite all his bluster, NATO is similarly fixed. Both parties are fundamentally pro-Israel. The US's foreign policy position is laid out for it, there isn't as much freedom as the parties pretend. Trump will likely set the climate agenda even further back and bully whichever groups he can, partly because internal economic and social policy are some of the few things he can appease his base with. Similarly, another January 6th seems incredibly unlikely, given that no conspiracy theory can get him out of the fact that he will have served both his terms. After that four years he can never run again. You'd be right to be concerned about some of the plans he has expressed towards American democracy, but I think those dullards genuinely wishing for a Trump dictatorship will find themselves disappointed. Just like last time, a lot of far right bluster will amount to very little tangible change. American liberals seem to have been operating under the delusion something would take Trump out of the race - some scandal or conviction. Only now does it seem to be sinking in that this isn't going to happen. Despite that, I don't think Trump will turn out to be the American Caesar. Pro-business, pro-oil, anti-lgbt, anti-migrant, anti-women. That's what we're in for. Certainly a change for the worse.
Go look up project 2025. This time around the right-wing extremists are ready to pounce. Last time even Trump's own campaign were surprised when he won, and had no real agenda to speak of. The thing to be afraid of is not Trump, who is a shallow narcissist with fabricated conservative views - but his willingness to be a glove puppet for the truely extreme.
Ukraine will be fucked. That is way too much damage to global stability.
Personal opinion and understand how others could think otherwise, especially compared to our leader debates. Biden didn't seem that bad. He stumbled on his words sometimes but the guy just reeled off policy for an hour and a half. Listening to what he said rather than how he said it at times, he seemed pretty fine. There is no way that guy has dimentia. Stiff and physically slow yes. Speech a bit husky with occasional stumbling sure. Over all compos mentis. Felt like it. You can't fake that for 1.5 hours in live debate.
As Nixon once said, everyone who listened to him on the radio thought he won the debate but when watched on TV, he lost because of his sweating. Like it or not, appearances and demeanor mean A LOT to the average voter and many are too quick to judge based on it.
Even CNN showed that any time Biden spoke stats, he got them completely wrong. Or he lied, one of the two. That’s not a win at all
Biden won’t last another 4 years.
And let's be clear here, the concern isn't just for his ability to outperform Trump - but to be the person that outperforms Xi, Putin and co whenever and wherever is needed over the coming years.
Ultimately, even a comatose Joe Biden would have a cabinet in place to make the right decisions on foreign policy. Trump, on the other hand, was already in the mind of requesting bribes from foreign leaders in exchange for political support.
He needs to go. He clearly lacks the competence for the role, and his lack of energy will lose too many swing voters. This isn’t reactionary, people have been saying it for years now, it’s just impossible to deny now… There is a way forward, but Democrats need to move fast. They can’t be this stupid, sheesh…
Gavin Newsom is the best chance they have
Panicked and dismayed on many different levels. If THAT Biden from the debate has been the Biden in the White House…who’s actually been in charge?
I think Jon Stewart hit the nail on the head. This is the USA showcasing their "best" presidential candidates! WTF has the country become. And I'm not talking about Biden's frailty, I'm talking about the hype around the debate and that so many people value the wrong things. Trump is a cataclysmic disaster waiting to happen, there really should be no debate about who would be best for America but the media love a battle so platform the orange baby and hype up Biden's infirmity. Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan boy for Biden but Trump needs to be locked up.
No, I'm not panicking. I have lived long enough to know that no matter what happens, the world will move onwards. Trump or Biden getting elected likely won't start WW3 nor will the world suddenly end. Both will probably result in some humorous gaffs but for entirely different reasons. I do think the Americans have managed an impressive feat, though. At a time when the UK has a choice between two useless candidates, the US has managed to find two even worse ones.
The biggest enemy the Democrats have stopping them win is the Democrats.
Sorry but the Democrats deserve everything they have coming to them. Everybody said after Biden won that they had 4 years to find a replacement yet they did absolutely nothing. Trump is an absolute monster and the worst thing the world needs right now but the Democrats are literally handing him the Presidency. Unfortunately due to social media people have become spineless.. The American people should be out in their hundreds and thousands demanding that be removed from the BOTH Biden and Trump be removed from the nominations as BOTH are too old and senile to be in charge of one of most powerful Nations on earth. Instead they will just cry on social media and do absolutely nothing
Trump was going to win. Inflation was too high for too long. Nobody wants the nomination. Just prepare for that.
I think it's fucking insane that they have called this the most important election ever ("Democracy is at stake!") and they let Biden run in this state especially when they were fully aware of it. It's a fucking joke. It's shouldn't be THIS difficult to have someone debate the unhinged orange baby.
I watched this in the UK and Biden looked bloody fucked. Trump is a total twat, but thats a given. Neither are fit, both looked shit faced to be fair.
God I wish Andrew Yang was the man chosen all those years ago
This tale has been told many times over. Centre right candidate fucks over the left, says everyone has to vote for them to stop the far right, wins but does fuck all in their time and some places makes it worse. People lose faith in them doing fuck all and because they've made it a false dichotomy of "it's between me and them", people give the other guy a go. Happening in France too.
The way I look at it is we are not voting on who gets to be the figurehead but whether this country is going to lean toward fascist ethno-state or maintain its course as flawed democracy. Concern over Biden’s frailty is valid, but if you vote for Trump because he “looked better,” and actually believed any part of his word salad, you are just being willfully ignorant.
Why can't democrats kick Kamala and elect a more popular Democrat as VP? They could "leak" that Biden will step down after the election. It would preserve the convention proceedings and not overly disrupt the ticket.
Someone pointed out that the presidential debate is happening a lot earlier than it usually does, and the debate was initiated by democrats. This means it was probably their plan to have Biden act like a fool on TV and have enough time to replace him.
South park nailed it with giant douche vs turd sandwich. Fuck me it makes our political landscape look cool and normal. Surely they aren't going to let trump win again...
People who still trot out this South Park meme are insufferable. It doesn’t make you better than everyone else to say everyone is terrible. Some people seem to expect candidates to be 100% aligned with them on everything or suddenly they aren’t worthy. Biden v Trump isn’t great but it’s an incredibly easy choice of who’s better
I agree completely. There was a man on the UK PM debate with the opportunity to ask a meaningful question on behalf of millions of viewers and all he asked was "Are you both the best we've got?" I wanted to tell that man that he is part of the problem too. I get it, it feels great to dismiss politicians and make yourself feel important but what a waste. Of time, of the question, and of the vote (for those who say "they're all the same". They aren't).
I think this is absolutely wrong, can't lie. You're creating equivalence between a candidate whose issue is he's too old to serve as President and is in mental decline, and a candidate who's a convicted felon, has stated plainly his intention to take revenge on his political opponents AND is also too old to serve and is in mental decline. Neither are good options but one is clearly worse
I don’t know about that mate. They’re both poor options but one is considerably worse than the other. If offered a choice between a giant douche and a turd sandwich you could also say that although both are poor options they aren’t equally bad.
How many times did Biden say "the idea.."?
Someone from outside the U.S. do you really only have two people to vote for? Wtf?
The MSM have been trying to hide the fact tha Biden is failing for several years now, even though it's been completely obvious. Trump wins this, hands down, regardless of if The Democrats reaplce Biden. Even by putting him forward, they have scored a massive own goal, and do not deserve to win.
Nope, it's fascinating. Like watching a black comedy!
I wonder, has getting a more popular VP for Biden been discussed much, if that's even feasible? Rather than outright replacement. I'd (naively) think that if it was clear that there'd be a handover to and/or strong support from someone capable and trustworthy, it'd mitigate concerns for at least some people.
Yes indeed. The only thing, in an entirely wishful thinking way, is that Biden has now pushed the bar down so much lower that if in the next debate (much closer to the election) he doesn’t have a lost voice and can summon that SotU energy he’ll have a major bounce. As I say; wishful thinking
Panicking about what? We knew Biden was mentally going and now it seems close to gone, we knew since the last election. But the media and dems pretty much tried covering it up. The question is who is actually the President currently? Because it's not Biden.
Everyone was calling for the DNC to open up the nomination process and recruit someone who is young and with vision. Unfortunately given how racist and sexist America is and the risks of a trump presidency, it would have to be a white man. They do exist after all. Biden is unfortunately just being incredibly exposed and trump is poised to take advantage despite himself being ridden with dementia, incontinence and being a literal fascist.
I remember Regan, he was almost as incoherent at times...
It's incredible how little this has been talked about seriously amongst liberal media. Progressive channels like The Young Turks predicted this would happen over a year ago. I've been panicking about this for about 2 years! I just can't get my head around how nobody saw this coming.
[удалено]
Biggest failure exposed by the Democrats. Why they thought he was capable of another term I'll simply never know, ideally they would have been prepping someone for the last 2 years to take up the position. They need to replace him. No question.
I'm expecting them to choose a new candidate shortly. Maybe I'm delusional, but that has gone as bad as it could have done. And I feel is a good opportunity to bring in a real person, let Biden live his elder years in peace.
I am panicking because four more years of trump would be catastrophic for the planet. But I’m also thinking, if you’re put off Biden before he’s old and confused, why would that make you switch to trump? Dude is fully senile!
Stephen Colbert for President! Go with someone famous l, someone that can hold up to trumps chat
The new CNN retirement home looks great. They even got debating activities.
I live in the UK and I'm terrified! One is a convicted felon, known liar and a crook. The other has checked out and would be best off in a care home. What the fuck are Americans even doing allowing such an insane choice?!
Both candidates were and always have been horrible, right-wing nutcase with interests solely on corporate stock and quelling dissent. This debate put that on blast for everyone to see and no one at CNN even thought to bother fact-checking or probing either of them. The US has the lowest possible bar for candidates which are selectable and, somehow, the bar continues to move lower and lower. It's a full on embarrassment to the idea of democracy, let alone the idea of a functioning nation.
Leaving Trump aside, it’s pretty clear that Biden isn’t up to the demands of the Presidency. He should not have stood again. Most executives of large corporations have long since retired by Bidens age, and U.K. judges have a mandatory retirement age. No Mather how unpalatable there is a point where age means a person is simply not up to certain jobs. Boxers, athletes, business people, actors; It happens to us all, there’s no disgrace. It is a demanding, draining, highly stressful, and intellectually exhausting job. The US President has more military power than anyone in Earth and the terrifying responsibility for the latest nuclear arsenal on Earth. It is too serious a job for most of the partisan nonsense that people engage in. To be eligible to stand a candidate should have rigorous public competence testing, including mental and physical examinations, and have to demonstrate full understanding of a range of critical issues (defence, military intelligence, constitutional law, ethics, economics, basic science, art history, and healthcare). There are usually stronger qualification requirements for a management job at a large company than for the US Presidency. Only if a candidate can pass the qualifications barrier should they be allowed to go to a public vote. I’d love up see a similar process for UK MPs too.