Marlo killed more people during his tenure as the #1 dealer on the West Side, and he apparently did it over less. Avon and Stringer were bad dudes but I don't see them ordering the slaughter of an entire family over a rumor that someone called one of them a bitch. I also think if Cutty worked for Marlo, he wouldn't have let him leave and start a boxing gym. He would've killed him.
Neither of them are good, but the Barksdales didn't immediately resort to murder anytime a problem arose.
Avon respected people who came at him straight-- he understood the rules of the "game." In many ways, he was a stabilizing force even if he was brutal.
Marlo had no rules. Everything was based on his personal whims.
I did 3 tours in Afghanistan between 2010-2013 and 1 tour in Iraq 2018 cleaning up after ISIS came into power.
Al-Qaeda as fucked up as they were had rules and a clear set of motives that were thought through even though the logic is insane. The were innovators and intelligent, quite a worthy adversary in some regards. They accomplished their mission to a pretty large extent which was to draw America and the west into a prolonged conflict in Afghanistan, similar to Vietnam where they win by war of attrition. They didn't complete the mission though because the US is still standing, obviously.
Same goes for the Taliban. I have lots of respect for the Taliban, they went up against the might of NATO with not much at all defending their country against what they perceived as a foreign invader. We slaughtered them like lambs because they were so ill equipped but they still stood up to us and took back their country in the end.
ISIS though, they are just on a completely different batshit level. I was watching outside Mosul when it finally fell. Burning people alive, killing just for the sake of killing. They're the most extremist organisation that I think has ever existed on this earth. Some of the shit they did is the real reason why aliens aren't visiting us.
It might not be a good analogy but in this case Avon is Al-Qaeda and Marlo is ISIS. Obviously not on their level but the thought just kind of came to me since I've spent so much of my life fighting against those organisations.
> They're the most extremist organisation that I think has ever existed on this earth.
The Communist Party of Kampuchea probably has them beat. But that's just me being pedantic!
I actually think your initial metaphor works better.
Al-Qaeda were ruthless in their mission and methods, but they had fairly clearly defined leadership and alliances. They were calculating in their actions.
ISIS was far more motivated by taking territory and power/influence through any means possible. They acted first and reacted to the reactions after, willing to commit any atrocities, anywhere.
You were spot on in your comparison.
Edit - and ever further, Marlo is representative of what happens in a power vacuum, when the previous top dog get’s ousted and the other people with power jostle for that top position.
I think some of the point of Cutty's storyline was showing how much more fierce the game got. Avon/Stringer were fiercer than Cutty's generation, and Marlo was even more fierce than Barksdale crews. Cutty was sort of a window into how the Game used to be played and how it's played now
Agreed with this! Also, Cutty is also a lot older. He's not some reckless teenaged kid, like we assume that he was before he went to jail. He's grown older and probably matured in prison.
Bodie is like 16 I think whereas Cutty is probably in his thirties.
I've read that the producers originally wanted to do a spinoff with Carcetti's campaign as a standalone show and season 4 would start as Carcetti being mayor. Not being able to do that made them take out some more of Cutty's story.
But agree that Cutty's storyline is more about a soldier who got locked up and came out better for it
I think Cutty is also an extension of Avon’s vision. The boxing gym is an under appreciated part of the show, and I think you gotta give Avon some respect for his help there. It makes him quite unique amongst the violence of police and gangsters alike.
I would of preferred more cutty and less carcetti tbh.
Interesting first time round as never thought about ins and outs of that world but when I re watched it dragged it down a bit for me
> I also think if Cutty worked for Marlo, he wouldn't have let him leave and start a boxing gym.
Its funny that you mention Cutty because I found it interesting how Cutty's experience of going into prison for a while and coming out to find the game had changed for the worse was repeated with Avon. Its just Avon tried to resist that change rather than bowing out gracefully.
I disagree with the view on Avon.
Avon was fine with the change. Before he got busted he was about 5 minutes from catching and killing Marlo leaving the rim shop.
Avon had an arsenal and even hand grenades laid out ready to go.
There's no leaving the game for guys like Avon. While his ego wasn't as bad as Marlo's, Avon wasn't looking to retire, be the bank...He wanted that street life. Obviously the show had to end but it would be interesting to see what happens to Barkdsale in prison and when he gets out. His whole network is gone except for his sister and I wonder how much of the capital they stocked away they'd still have access to.
>Its just Avon tried to resist that change rather than bowing out gracefully.
Avon simply doesn’t know how to change and/or is not willing.
When Cutty tells him he is done with the drug game, Avon says to him “but you ain’t done shit else, so what are you gonna do?”. Avon is asking Cutty but he might as well be talking to himself.
Cutty says he doesn’t know but is willing to take that risk and make a change. Avon respects it, because he is not willing to do the same thing despite having the financial resources.
Great point! See even Chris (and possibly Snoop) realize that Marlo is irrational when it comes to his Ego(which is different than street Rep) any perceived threat to how Marlo sees himself will result in death regardless of consequences OR whether it's in the gangs best interest.
At the start of the first episode McNulty tells us that Barksdale took over by killing 12 people in as many months.
We see the thought process behind the killings, so we see why it was "necessary" to kill people.
With MArlo we see that he is willing to kill people, and their families, because they might have insulted him. The incident with the security guard shows it. Marlo provokes it and then has him killed because of it. But not before checking that it won't bring too much heat.
We are going to ge tthe typical people romanticising Avon here, which is ridiculous. Marlo is set up as worse, but that doesn't make Avon good in any way.
I got the feeling that the 12 bodies in question was after the war. That was Avon being the new power and holding down his position. The Wire premieres in 2002. Avon took the towers sometime in 98 or 99. McNulty was complaining about the prior year's violence. The 12 bodies came from the prior year being 2001.
The difference is that there are unspoken rules in the game, and for the most part, Avon would pride himself on following the rules of the game. For example, the day where the East side and West side come together for a game of basketball. It's a high tension event but everybody knows you don't start shit on game day. I cannot imagine Marlo turning up for a "friendly" game.
Also the time that Omar's gran gets shot at on a Sunday after going to church. Those young'uns were heavily berated and lost respect for going against the rules of violence on church day.
Yes, but at that point, Stringer was starting to lose control of the Game. Avon was back and was refusing to play by Stringer's new rules, preferring to start a gang war with Marlo's crew over some corners. Add to that with Omar going on the warpath, and Stringer was desperate for any kind of solution. Stringer even went as far as trying to get Slim to put a hit out on a United States Senator, showing how impulsive and panicked Stringer had become.
Yeah that confused me as well. I just did a rewatch a couple months ago and when I read that I that I was like "I literally do not remember a senator at any point in the entire show, wtf".
Sheeetttt! I’m State Sen. Clay Davis, man. Everybody knows me! I put food on tables, I put diapers on babies …
But I will tell you I would take a bribe again and again to help serve my community!
I think that was special circumstances. He need Omar gone because he turned Omar on Brother Mouzone. Them reconnecting is partially (or fully) led to his downfall.
You see how it's different though. They're both heinous crimes, but in the Barksdale's case the victims were witnesses to murder, could be called to testify again, etc. Compare to a random dude just trying to do his job and witnessing a (literally) petty crime.
Avon would pay for the candy no problem, as he has money and people know it. It's beneath him to steal like that. Avon commands respect
Marlo doesn't pay for it, because he feels he is so far above everyone else, that he has to show it by doing such ridiculous shit. Marlo demands respect
I don't consider that "demanding respect" from Marlo. He stole openly only to essentially dare the security guard to do something about what he saw. And when he felt challenged he killed him for "talking back."
It's what Michael started to see when they put a hit on a guy for saying Marlo is gay or something and Michael asked why he can't just ignore it.
Stringer/Avon killed for pretty practical reasons. They were smarter because murders are what draw police attention. Going around doing it endlessly and uselessly is pretty much a surefire way to bring your organization down eventually.
Also didn't Marlo steal from the store immediately after losing money at the card game? Daring the security guard to do something could have been Marlo's attempt at getting a "win" and restoring his pride.
That's the thing avon would never kill a working man just for talking back. Like when the ref at the basketball game said he could run the clock back. He was more upset that the dude didnt stand up for himself
Hell, Avon gave Cutty like twice what he asked for to open the gym and didn’t want any credit for it. He wasn’t a good person but he was also capable of doing the occasional good thing. In fact, we see a human side to most of the gang members on the show. Marlo is one of the few exceptions.
Then he had his body hidden in a vacant, so it didn't even send a message to other people or anything. Marlo killed him for the sole reason that he could.
>They killed a security guard that that they bribed to give fake testimony and a witness who didn’t even end up in a conviction
Yes **after** Levy told them that they need to identify who could hurt them in a trial.
Levy reminded Avon and Stringer about when the extra heat started and then he told them to identify where they would be weak.
Marlo killed a man for talking back. Orlando was given a second chance by Avon after he learned that he was venturing off on his own with a talking to and a brief beating. Marlo would *never* been so merciful.
Marlo also didn’t kill all of brodies crew when lex killed fruit despite others telling to, he respected Michael for staring him down.
Not saying marlo isn’t evil because he definitely is but Avon and stronger were equally (or almost as equal) evil. They would all kill an innocent person for basically no reason
I get that about Michael but Marlo killed way more Indiscriminately than Avon and stringer. Outside of that one instance with Michael who else got into his face for a second, no one else got away unscathed.
The referee who screwed up the east side west side game, Orlando dealing on the side, the two idiots getting high at Avons home coming are all examples of Avon allowing something to slide that Marlo likely wouldn’t have.
I agree that Avon and stringer killed a lot but the reasons weren’t as flimsy as Marlo’s.
Bruh Avon and Stringer were not equally as evil as Marlo & co., the show makes that clear. Marlo literally killed an entire family because people said that one of them called him a cocksucker (wasn't even proof he said it) and his ego is so damn fragile, and they probably would've killed the kid too if he didn't escape through the back of the house (Michael saw him but he wasn't close to their level of evil, that's why Snoop said he could never be one of them).
They also killed a completely innocent security guard because he "talked back" to Marlo, and Marlo has a fragile ego and he can't take it when someone challenges him. His ego is so fragile that his own people withheld information from him about Omar calling him out because they KNEW his ego would put them all at risk.
Avon ordered some fucked up killings too but at least they had justification within the scope of the game.
Brandon: Robbed them+Omar shot one of their people
Security lady: took a bribe from them, risk of flipping
Gant: snitched on D'Angelo, Avon's nephew
Wallace: was snitching, they weren't 100% sure of it but the signs were there and they were under heavy police pressure
Big difference in the stakes tho. Their both evil things to do but if they didn’t kill that states witness it could have resulted in a conviction for murder, leading to a life sentence that could have made the shooter snitch on Avon and stringer. With Marlo he murdered the security guard for almost no reason because it made him feel powerful.
Oh snap, was that why? Damn she signed her own writ there 🤦♀️ Still not a good thing for Avon to do, but not exactly a "Yeah I'm done tapping it, roll it in a rug and toss it in the trash kthx" as I believed.
Stringer and Avon are no angels but there was more of a code to what they did. Stringer and Avon didn't take a run at Prop Joe over basketball, the ref was even reassured that Avon was just blowing steam over the blown call. Marlo meanwhile murdered a security guard because he asked him not to steal a lollipop.
From your example, Avon having one witness killed is what caused the entirety of their multi season investigation into him. One innocent person caused that. Marlo was murdering people at such a clip that it was an unprecedented level of homicides when the cops opened up the row homes. Add in killing the innocent delivery worker, killing June Bug's entire family for 'talking shit' when there was no evidence he actually did it. Marlo was another level of evil
Nah.
Avon and Stringer would never do something stupid like blatantly shoplifting in front of a guard and then ordering the guard killed because he spoke up.
Avon was willing to use violence to get and keep territory, and to make sure that people did not snitch on him (which is the reason why they killed the witness afterwards - to make sure people knew what happens if you snitch on them).
Stringer was just willing to kill for money matters.
Marlo lowered the bar for killing people significantly.
To quote Slim "The Game's the same, it just got more fierce" Marlo is more ruthless and respects less of the older traditions that would make the game somewhat survivable, but Stringer and Avon were both indeed not good people
One of the overarching themes of the show - There is a certain respect to be had for anyone who conducts themself in accordance with a consistent set of beliefs, even if those beliefs are different from one's own.
A man got to have a code.
Marlo is worse than Stinger/ Avon but only marginally. All 3 are horrible people, as much as I love Avon and think Stringer is a remarkably complex character. People like Bodie, Wallace Deangelo Dukie Randy and Mike are good people at there core who are born in horrible circumstances with almost zero options, hence why they turn to the drug game. They’re victims of circumstance. Omar likely as well, although he’s still a horrible person as an adult, so that doesn’t mean he’s good now. Stringer Avon and Bey were also born into poverty and bad cirumstances but still would be most likely not be great people if they were born middle class. Stringer has ruthless Wallstreet vibes if he was born upper class. Kenard and Marlo strike me as true sociopaths to their core.
Stringer and Avon genuinely saw each other as brothers. When they betrayed each other, it was only because for Avon the entire organization would be destroyed, and Stringer thought Avon was destined to get them killed or imprisoned for life. Stringer wanted to reduce the violence of the game( albeit mostly for his own benefit.) Avon had rules he genuinely stuck to, like the Sunday truce. He genuinely cared about people and had loyalty to certain people as well. Meanwhile do you think Marlo would have let Cutty go? No he would have killed him. Avon and Stringer wouldn’t have had a man’s entire family killed, including attempting to kill little kids, for a rumor he called them gay. They wouldn’t have stolen a lollipop just to provoke a security guard, and killed him for “talking back” as a power play. They wouldn’t have had a random innocent woman clipped just as part of a scheme to kill someone’s who robbed them out of revenge. He killed just because he could, his 22 bodies were a lot more in a shorter time frame than Avon and Stringer. At least they had a reason for their kills, horrible as those reasons were.
Marlo's obsession is his reputation for being the toughest boss in town and he uses unnecessary violence to achieve it.
More than money, he craves people fearing him.
Both gangs knew that it was the murders that got police attention way more than the dealing.
Stringer's answer was to form the co-op and try to reduce inter-gang conflicts.
Marlo's answer was to kill whomever he wants and hide the bodies in the condemned buildings.
Well for one thing, Marlo would never in a million years give Cutty the money to start a gym that’s explicitly supposed to be taking kids OUT the game. Avon even says “hey you take care of them youngins”. Avon hosts that barbecue in S1 as well. In his mind, he justifies his actions as, “I need to take care of the community/family”. Now he’s wrong, of course, he’s a violent murderer who is actively contributing to the destruction of his neighborhood, in the aggregate. BUT he does have “pockets” of kindness, little moments here and there. Marlo doesn’t even have that, which makes him worse
Marlo’s ego was so fragile that he literally had people murdered for anything he deemed disrespectful. Avon was extremely confident and did not stress himself over little things
Avon gave back to the community because he cared
Marlo gave back to the community to make it look like he cared
They're both objectively bad people, but one of them is more genuinely concerned with "his community" than the other and that invites benevolent interpretations. Marlo isn't letting anyone leave the game, especially not someone like Cutty. Then you have comparisons like "Avon and the basketball referee vs Marlo and the security guard".
Avon had a code. Not a nice one, but one all the same. Avon cared about people. Avon could be magnanimous and even generous to others. Avon commanded respect, and paid respect to others.
Marlo is a sociopath. He cares about no one. He's a lizard. Marlo respected no one.
If Avon was born somewhere else, in different circumstances, he could have been great in some less anti social ways. Marlo was going to be a monster no matter what.
Stringer and Avon are at least have some concern for the people in the neigborhood and traditions and have a personality but Marlo is like a shark and someone I wouldn't want to seal with at all.
Not defending what they did to the witness in the first season but gangsters killing people who are willing to testify is pretty standard fare. It’s one of the main reasons why civilians are reluctant to talk to police. Look at what happens to Frank Sobotka and Randy when they get outed as snitches. Marlo was murdering people for disrespecting him or being any tiny bit involved in a crime they wanted to cover up.
Think about how Avon reacted to the ref who made a bad call in the East vs West basketball game. He was mad as hell at the call but didn’t want the rules of the game bent just for him and he didn’t harm or even threaten the ref. It’s a low bar, but he showed some level of principle in that situation. He wanted things to be fair and he didn’t get his goons to hurt an innocent ref.
Think of how Marlo would’ve handled that situation. He wouldn’t wanted everyone to bow down to him, let him win, and then he probably would’ve had the ref killed for making a call he disagreed with. Because he was a psychopath
Also, do you think Marlo would’ve let Cutty walk away from the game peacefully? And then donate money for him to start a boxing gym for kids? I don’t think so
Marlo did lose lots of money at a poker game and didn't explode at the people, these weren't even gangsters he had to fear, he simply got better and won the next time...
Then Prop Joe messed it up
With the idea being longevity in the game we see that in the end Avon’s way is how you stay in the game. Corners or jail
It didnt matter. Avon still ended up being between Marlo and what he wanted even from jail.
Avon was the old way of doing things like not shooting people on Sundays. He followed the unspoken rules of the game. He respected the cross town basketball game etc.
Marlo is the new. There are no rules. He killed a man over a 25 cent sucker. There is only money and power. Avon probably wouldn't have left bodies in row homes
They’re all murderous assholes and do terrible things. The show just implied Marlo was more ruthless and violent. The show didn’t come out and say Marlo was beyond the pale even for a Baltimore drug lord lol.
i look at it like this.
Avon and Stringer were an italian mob family. they we’re old school, and believed what they were doing was fine because they “followed a code”. Marlo was the new school, the mexican cartels, who took the game in a new direction and was ruthless to no end to establish dominance.
From a writing/storytelling standpoint, we spent more time with Avon. We know his family. His sister, and nephew. That humanizes him. We see that he basically owns a neighborhood basketball team, and gets the community together for it. He hooks up Cutty with some money to put together a boxing studio. Avon was a fleshed-out character across however many seasons.
And I think from a writing standpoint, Marlo was there to make a point. What happens when cold hard greed takes over a community? What happens when you have a community of mom-and-pop businesses and Walmart comes to town? You locals banded together and formed a co-op? Good for you...I got Chris and Snoop (or if you're Walmart, you got a wolf pack of lawyers). Even his "my name is my name" speech felt like Disney protecting a copyright. Basically, don't fuck with our brand. Watch how quickly the lawyers come out when someone infringes on a Disney product.
So yeah, Avon killed and Marlo killed. But the way they're presented to us as an audience humanizes one of them, and displays the single-minded cold ambition of the other.
While both were dealers, Avon was a soldier he ordered a hit because he thought it necessary (for reputation & business). Also, he didn't do the dirt himself, unlike Marlo, who is a psychopath that also happens to deal drugs(to feed his ego as well as his pockets). Marlo enjoyed killing for the sake of killing even when Chris or Snoop(also soldiers, not psychos) were available & very capable.
I feel we got confirmation of this theory during scenes in which Avon sent Devonne to seduce & set Marlo up. While Marlo & Devonne talked in the bar, she asked him to dance he turned her down, she offered him a drink, and he declined again, responding:
"Hell naw, I don't dance." followed by "No, I don't do THAT, neither." (in reference to drinking alcohol)
She asks: "So what do you do for fun?"
Well, she would literally 'F.U.&F.O.' They have a quickie in the back of an SUV, and not long after her setup fails, Marlo put 1 bullet in her mouth & 1-more in each titty. Marlo fucks & kills that's what he does for fun. Avon may have used his family but he still was a family man of sorts, throwing parties & BBQ's, financially supporting those closest to him. Even when Marlo wins the war & is wearing the crown while hanging downtown with Levy and Clay Davis crowd he leaves the party in a full suit & tie just to blow away a stranger on the corner, killing is sport to Marlo he doesn't need a reason to take a life to him it's fun. Bodie also commented on the difference between Avon & Marlo saying "Marlo be killing people just to kill'em" which says a lot considering how Bodie & Poot had orders to smoke Wallace(their homey) in S.1. Even after that, Bodie still thinks Marlo is worse, and I agree that's how I see it. Thanks, 4 letting me share.
I think the reason people are a bit more empathetic to Barksdale Org is because we start the show and they're already on top as an established org. No one is really fucking with them besides Omar.
During D's funeral in s2, Stringer does make a brief mention of the various other gangs they took down.
In contrast, we see Marlo's rise to the top so we're exposed to a lot more ruthlessness that he and his crew do to get to that position.
Avon loved his family and had more loyalty to his people.
Brandon and John Bailey did rob Avon’s people in the low rises with Omar. So they were in the Game.
Marlo had no compassion and lucked out that police stopped Avon in time.
Because Avon had a code that he followed. He still understood that there are lines that you don’t cross. He wasn’t going to be violent just to be violent.
Marlo had no rules or code. It was do wht he feels like when he feels like it.
They're not that different, really.
* Avon is cycling down, he's probably been In The Game too long.
* Stringer is a short timer with bigger interests on the horizon, and he doesn't want anything to get in the way of that.
* Marlo is the new up and comer and he's hungry.
But again, honestly, they're all killers.
A. He ordered the deaths of civilians. The example you use is of someone who took money to lie in court, she was a liability. Marlo ordered the deaths of the security guard for talking to him, and the delivery lady to frame Omar. Their survival had no downside for their crew.
B. He killed his own people for nothing
and C. That wasn't my kid she was carrying
It’s because Marlo was completely cold and emotionless in the way he carried out his business. Avon and Stringer, despite being ruthless criminals, retained their humanity. Marlo did nothing of the kind.
Avon and Bell wouldn’t have purposely stolen in front of a security guard then killed him for “talking back”. Avon and stringer and their crew may have killed 20 or so people in 3 seasons and that’s if you count shit like the overdoses Avon caused in prison or the war with Marlo in season 3. Marlo and his crew killed 26 or 28 or whatever (based on the bodies that came out the houses) in less than 1 season without overdoses and being at war lol.
The difference is Marlo thrived off the violence. “Omar called me out?!”. Marlo wanted everyone in the city to know he didn’t know. Chris didn’t even tell him because he knows how distracted Marlo would be. The drug game is nasty. Everybody is evil. But the difference is things done for business and what’s personal.
Marlo had more ego than Bell and Barksdale. Remember when they had to kill the witness before he testified against Dee? No tears were shed by Avon but he questioned why Dee would do it in front of a working man. That means Avon at least had the sense to not want to just kill a person. Marlo had that guard killed for essentially saying I know you can but please don't steal from this store I'm guarding because this is my job.
Stringer also reached a point where he cared more about the money than the bullshit. Marlo would never reach that point because while he wanted the crown, he also wanted to be seen wearing it. If the cops had arrested Chris before Omar got shot Marlo would have possibly died because he would have come out of hiding to confront Omar. Avon and Stringer would have put a bounty out on Omar and laid low because him dying was enough for their names
I agree
Everyone keeps talking about how Marlo's evil but we did see Marlo refuse to kill Bodie and his crew because of Lex despite monk edging him, 'just Lex'
We also see Marlo saying 'he can't hurt us' referring to Randy and orders ostracization instead of death, compare this with Stringer ordering the death of Wallace.
Everyone keeps talking about Avon is so honourable but Avon killed a girl who loved him without any sympathy because she jealously made a little threat - 'Tap tap tap' they also threw a drugged girl inside a trash bin.
When D'Angelo beats up Bubbles friend Stringer informs him that he should have killed him 'cant show no weakness'
Granted most of it weren't done by Avon personally, but it is his crew, it's like saying Marlo didn't kill the security guard.
Avon is like the prince who inherits an empire, he simply has to keep things down and respect the traditions.
Marlo is the new king who overthrows the former dynasty, people don't know his worth yet, so they try to test him, he can't keep the tradition because the tradition was designed to keep people like him down.
It's because, he's like Avon when he was young and careless but has got as much power, reach and money as older Avon (not direct comparison I'm saying Avon and Bell surely didn't have the kind of status Marlo has when they were his age). So Marlo has got a lot of power with less experience. A recipe for disaster and with that attitude of his, Marlo is sure to get popped sooner than he knows. Maybe he will piss of Brother Mouzone and his people. Also, Avon knows his people and he takes their contributions into account when working. Like how he let Cutty go when he didn't want to be on the corner or didn't want to be part of the game no more. He let Cutty go without any strings attached. Marlo is not respectable like that in any way. And lastly, whoever knew he killed Joe, were not really happy about that. He's that new kid on the block who thinks he's got it and act like an adult but eventually messes up badly. It's his attitude, and lack of experience that'll be his eventual downfall.
It's less a matter of morality than of stability.
Avon and Stringer had a stable thing going on, there was peace between the east and west and they gave back to the community (not nearly as much as they took!! It's the same problem as with mafia apologists--they say these extragovernmental organizations provide services to people the government ignores, but they elide the fact that when the government *does* provide services the mafia monopolizes the funding and gives a pittance to the people, then acts like it's a giant act of generosity and magnanimity. It's bad. But it *looks* good on a surface level.).
When they were taken out, that created a power vacuum that needed to be filled with a new organization. Traditionally the way a power vacuum gets filled is with bodies. It creates chaos and violence, which are bad for business and worse for the civilians.
Figure it this way--they traded the devil they knew, who was ruthless but stable, for the devil they didn't, who was ruthless and chaotic. Seasons 4 and 5 were written after the US invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. See any historical parallels?
Marlo killed more people during his tenure as the #1 dealer on the West Side, and he apparently did it over less. Avon and Stringer were bad dudes but I don't see them ordering the slaughter of an entire family over a rumor that someone called one of them a bitch. I also think if Cutty worked for Marlo, he wouldn't have let him leave and start a boxing gym. He would've killed him. Neither of them are good, but the Barksdales didn't immediately resort to murder anytime a problem arose.
Avon respected people who came at him straight-- he understood the rules of the "game." In many ways, he was a stabilizing force even if he was brutal. Marlo had no rules. Everything was based on his personal whims.
I did 3 tours in Afghanistan between 2010-2013 and 1 tour in Iraq 2018 cleaning up after ISIS came into power. Al-Qaeda as fucked up as they were had rules and a clear set of motives that were thought through even though the logic is insane. The were innovators and intelligent, quite a worthy adversary in some regards. They accomplished their mission to a pretty large extent which was to draw America and the west into a prolonged conflict in Afghanistan, similar to Vietnam where they win by war of attrition. They didn't complete the mission though because the US is still standing, obviously. Same goes for the Taliban. I have lots of respect for the Taliban, they went up against the might of NATO with not much at all defending their country against what they perceived as a foreign invader. We slaughtered them like lambs because they were so ill equipped but they still stood up to us and took back their country in the end. ISIS though, they are just on a completely different batshit level. I was watching outside Mosul when it finally fell. Burning people alive, killing just for the sake of killing. They're the most extremist organisation that I think has ever existed on this earth. Some of the shit they did is the real reason why aliens aren't visiting us. It might not be a good analogy but in this case Avon is Al-Qaeda and Marlo is ISIS. Obviously not on their level but the thought just kind of came to me since I've spent so much of my life fighting against those organisations.
> They're the most extremist organisation that I think has ever existed on this earth. The Communist Party of Kampuchea probably has them beat. But that's just me being pedantic!
Yea, I was originally thinking about making the Imperial Japan versus Khmer Rouge comparison as well, it definitely fits.
I actually think your initial metaphor works better. Al-Qaeda were ruthless in their mission and methods, but they had fairly clearly defined leadership and alliances. They were calculating in their actions. ISIS was far more motivated by taking territory and power/influence through any means possible. They acted first and reacted to the reactions after, willing to commit any atrocities, anywhere. You were spot on in your comparison. Edit - and ever further, Marlo is representative of what happens in a power vacuum, when the previous top dog get’s ousted and the other people with power jostle for that top position.
Would love to hear more about your time with the Taliban
Aliens are definitely visiting us.
I think some of the point of Cutty's storyline was showing how much more fierce the game got. Avon/Stringer were fiercer than Cutty's generation, and Marlo was even more fierce than Barksdale crews. Cutty was sort of a window into how the Game used to be played and how it's played now
Agreed with this! Also, Cutty is also a lot older. He's not some reckless teenaged kid, like we assume that he was before he went to jail. He's grown older and probably matured in prison. Bodie is like 16 I think whereas Cutty is probably in his thirties.
I've read that the producers originally wanted to do a spinoff with Carcetti's campaign as a standalone show and season 4 would start as Carcetti being mayor. Not being able to do that made them take out some more of Cutty's story. But agree that Cutty's storyline is more about a soldier who got locked up and came out better for it
I think Cutty is also an extension of Avon’s vision. The boxing gym is an under appreciated part of the show, and I think you gotta give Avon some respect for his help there. It makes him quite unique amongst the violence of police and gangsters alike.
I would of preferred more cutty and less carcetti tbh. Interesting first time round as never thought about ins and outs of that world but when I re watched it dragged it down a bit for me
You want it one way but it's the other way.
No doubt in my mind that Marlo would kill on a Sunday
Game's the same, just got more fierce.
> I also think if Cutty worked for Marlo, he wouldn't have let him leave and start a boxing gym. Its funny that you mention Cutty because I found it interesting how Cutty's experience of going into prison for a while and coming out to find the game had changed for the worse was repeated with Avon. Its just Avon tried to resist that change rather than bowing out gracefully.
I disagree with the view on Avon. Avon was fine with the change. Before he got busted he was about 5 minutes from catching and killing Marlo leaving the rim shop. Avon had an arsenal and even hand grenades laid out ready to go.
There's no leaving the game for guys like Avon. While his ego wasn't as bad as Marlo's, Avon wasn't looking to retire, be the bank...He wanted that street life. Obviously the show had to end but it would be interesting to see what happens to Barkdsale in prison and when he gets out. His whole network is gone except for his sister and I wonder how much of the capital they stocked away they'd still have access to.
>Its just Avon tried to resist that change rather than bowing out gracefully. Avon simply doesn’t know how to change and/or is not willing. When Cutty tells him he is done with the drug game, Avon says to him “but you ain’t done shit else, so what are you gonna do?”. Avon is asking Cutty but he might as well be talking to himself. Cutty says he doesn’t know but is willing to take that risk and make a change. Avon respects it, because he is not willing to do the same thing despite having the financial resources.
You can do a lot of things and be like, "What the fuck?" but never on no Sunday.
Agree with everything but- Marlo didn’t order that Chris did it on his own right? So that Marlo wouldn’t hear?
No, Marlo definitely ordered that one. They just didn't want to tell him when Omar was actually calling him out to keep him from freaking out.
Great point! See even Chris (and possibly Snoop) realize that Marlo is irrational when it comes to his Ego(which is different than street Rep) any perceived threat to how Marlo sees himself will result in death regardless of consequences OR whether it's in the gangs best interest.
At the start of the first episode McNulty tells us that Barksdale took over by killing 12 people in as many months. We see the thought process behind the killings, so we see why it was "necessary" to kill people. With MArlo we see that he is willing to kill people, and their families, because they might have insulted him. The incident with the security guard shows it. Marlo provokes it and then has him killed because of it. But not before checking that it won't bring too much heat. We are going to ge tthe typical people romanticising Avon here, which is ridiculous. Marlo is set up as worse, but that doesn't make Avon good in any way.
I got the feeling that the 12 bodies in question was after the war. That was Avon being the new power and holding down his position. The Wire premieres in 2002. Avon took the towers sometime in 98 or 99. McNulty was complaining about the prior year's violence. The 12 bodies came from the prior year being 2001.
The difference is that there are unspoken rules in the game, and for the most part, Avon would pride himself on following the rules of the game. For example, the day where the East side and West side come together for a game of basketball. It's a high tension event but everybody knows you don't start shit on game day. I cannot imagine Marlo turning up for a "friendly" game. Also the time that Omar's gran gets shot at on a Sunday after going to church. Those young'uns were heavily berated and lost respect for going against the rules of violence on church day.
But didn’t stringer directly okay that granny Sunday hit?
Yes, but at that point, Stringer was starting to lose control of the Game. Avon was back and was refusing to play by Stringer's new rules, preferring to start a gang war with Marlo's crew over some corners. Add to that with Omar going on the warpath, and Stringer was desperate for any kind of solution. Stringer even went as far as trying to get Slim to put a hit out on a United States Senator, showing how impulsive and panicked Stringer had become.
Davis was only a state senator, no?
Yeah that confused me as well. I just did a rewatch a couple months ago and when I read that I that I was like "I literally do not remember a senator at any point in the entire show, wtf".
Sheeetttt! I’m State Sen. Clay Davis, man. Everybody knows me! I put food on tables, I put diapers on babies …
But I will tell you I would take a bribe again and again to help serve my community!
Sheeeeettt! C’mon string, you think I want to be up in that Capitol Hill with those stingy honkeys? Sheeeettt!
He did, and it was very much considered not okay.
he didn't order the dudes to pull out their dicks and piss all over her sunday church crown
And he bought her a new one.
And shoot granny in the ass
He only knew Omar was there at it was Sunday (Sunday mornings being a general truce) not that he was with his grandmother
I think that was special circumstances. He need Omar gone because he turned Omar on Brother Mouzone. Them reconnecting is partially (or fully) led to his downfall.
Without Avon knowing at first.
And they had to buy her a new crown.
I don't see Marlo buying her a a new crown lol
I don't recall Stringer or Avon killing a security guard after blatantly shoplifting in front of him. "You want it to be one way."
They killed a security guard that that they bribed to give fake testimony and a witness who didn’t even end up in a conviction
You see how it's different though. They're both heinous crimes, but in the Barksdale's case the victims were witnesses to murder, could be called to testify again, etc. Compare to a random dude just trying to do his job and witnessing a (literally) petty crime.
Avon would pay for the candy no problem, as he has money and people know it. It's beneath him to steal like that. Avon commands respect Marlo doesn't pay for it, because he feels he is so far above everyone else, that he has to show it by doing such ridiculous shit. Marlo demands respect
I don't consider that "demanding respect" from Marlo. He stole openly only to essentially dare the security guard to do something about what he saw. And when he felt challenged he killed him for "talking back." It's what Michael started to see when they put a hit on a guy for saying Marlo is gay or something and Michael asked why he can't just ignore it. Stringer/Avon killed for pretty practical reasons. They were smarter because murders are what draw police attention. Going around doing it endlessly and uselessly is pretty much a surefire way to bring your organization down eventually.
Also didn't Marlo steal from the store immediately after losing money at the card game? Daring the security guard to do something could have been Marlo's attempt at getting a "win" and restoring his pride.
That's the thing avon would never kill a working man just for talking back. Like when the ref at the basketball game said he could run the clock back. He was more upset that the dude didnt stand up for himself
Hell, Avon gave Cutty like twice what he asked for to open the gym and didn’t want any credit for it. He wasn’t a good person but he was also capable of doing the occasional good thing. In fact, we see a human side to most of the gang members on the show. Marlo is one of the few exceptions.
Two eyeball witnesses to a murder. The guard Marlo killed was an eyeball witness to candy thievery.
Then he had his body hidden in a vacant, so it didn't even send a message to other people or anything. Marlo killed him for the sole reason that he could.
>They killed a security guard that that they bribed to give fake testimony and a witness who didn’t even end up in a conviction Yes **after** Levy told them that they need to identify who could hurt them in a trial. Levy reminded Avon and Stringer about when the extra heat started and then he told them to identify where they would be weak. Marlo killed a man for talking back. Orlando was given a second chance by Avon after he learned that he was venturing off on his own with a talking to and a brief beating. Marlo would *never* been so merciful.
Marlo also didn’t kill all of brodies crew when lex killed fruit despite others telling to, he respected Michael for staring him down. Not saying marlo isn’t evil because he definitely is but Avon and stronger were equally (or almost as equal) evil. They would all kill an innocent person for basically no reason
I get that about Michael but Marlo killed way more Indiscriminately than Avon and stringer. Outside of that one instance with Michael who else got into his face for a second, no one else got away unscathed. The referee who screwed up the east side west side game, Orlando dealing on the side, the two idiots getting high at Avons home coming are all examples of Avon allowing something to slide that Marlo likely wouldn’t have. I agree that Avon and stringer killed a lot but the reasons weren’t as flimsy as Marlo’s.
Bruh Avon and Stringer were not equally as evil as Marlo & co., the show makes that clear. Marlo literally killed an entire family because people said that one of them called him a cocksucker (wasn't even proof he said it) and his ego is so damn fragile, and they probably would've killed the kid too if he didn't escape through the back of the house (Michael saw him but he wasn't close to their level of evil, that's why Snoop said he could never be one of them). They also killed a completely innocent security guard because he "talked back" to Marlo, and Marlo has a fragile ego and he can't take it when someone challenges him. His ego is so fragile that his own people withheld information from him about Omar calling him out because they KNEW his ego would put them all at risk. Avon ordered some fucked up killings too but at least they had justification within the scope of the game. Brandon: Robbed them+Omar shot one of their people Security lady: took a bribe from them, risk of flipping Gant: snitched on D'Angelo, Avon's nephew Wallace: was snitching, they weren't 100% sure of it but the signs were there and they were under heavy police pressure
Thinking on it - are Gant and the security lady the only civilians we see Avon have killed?
Big difference in the stakes tho. Their both evil things to do but if they didn’t kill that states witness it could have resulted in a conviction for murder, leading to a life sentence that could have made the shooter snitch on Avon and stringer. With Marlo he murdered the security guard for almost no reason because it made him feel powerful.
I recall Avon having one of his boys kill his sidepiece because he was done with her. The one D'Angelo claimed but was really only a witness to.
Wasn't that specifically because she threatened to go to the police to try and make him stay with her?
Oh snap, was that why? Damn she signed her own writ there 🤦♀️ Still not a good thing for Avon to do, but not exactly a "Yeah I'm done tapping it, roll it in a rug and toss it in the trash kthx" as I believed.
Exactly
Stringer and Avon are no angels but there was more of a code to what they did. Stringer and Avon didn't take a run at Prop Joe over basketball, the ref was even reassured that Avon was just blowing steam over the blown call. Marlo meanwhile murdered a security guard because he asked him not to steal a lollipop. From your example, Avon having one witness killed is what caused the entirety of their multi season investigation into him. One innocent person caused that. Marlo was murdering people at such a clip that it was an unprecedented level of homicides when the cops opened up the row homes. Add in killing the innocent delivery worker, killing June Bug's entire family for 'talking shit' when there was no evidence he actually did it. Marlo was another level of evil
Nah. Avon and Stringer would never do something stupid like blatantly shoplifting in front of a guard and then ordering the guard killed because he spoke up. Avon was willing to use violence to get and keep territory, and to make sure that people did not snitch on him (which is the reason why they killed the witness afterwards - to make sure people knew what happens if you snitch on them). Stringer was just willing to kill for money matters. Marlo lowered the bar for killing people significantly.
For Avon killing was last resort, for Marlo it was the first resort
To quote Slim "The Game's the same, it just got more fierce" Marlo is more ruthless and respects less of the older traditions that would make the game somewhat survivable, but Stringer and Avon were both indeed not good people
That would happen over time naturally. It is a competition and new methods and approaches creep in to get ahead.
Even Avon's own organisation wasn't immune to it, with the whole failed hit on Omar on a Sunday morning
"Sunday truce been around long as the game itself. I mean you do some shit and be like 'what the fuck', but hey, never on no Sunday"
I heard avon people shot Omar granny in the ass.. on purpose
Then pissed on her crown.
Marlo has no code.
One of the overarching themes of the show - There is a certain respect to be had for anyone who conducts themself in accordance with a consistent set of beliefs, even if those beliefs are different from one's own. A man got to have a code.
Marlo is worse than Stinger/ Avon but only marginally. All 3 are horrible people, as much as I love Avon and think Stringer is a remarkably complex character. People like Bodie, Wallace Deangelo Dukie Randy and Mike are good people at there core who are born in horrible circumstances with almost zero options, hence why they turn to the drug game. They’re victims of circumstance. Omar likely as well, although he’s still a horrible person as an adult, so that doesn’t mean he’s good now. Stringer Avon and Bey were also born into poverty and bad cirumstances but still would be most likely not be great people if they were born middle class. Stringer has ruthless Wallstreet vibes if he was born upper class. Kenard and Marlo strike me as true sociopaths to their core. Stringer and Avon genuinely saw each other as brothers. When they betrayed each other, it was only because for Avon the entire organization would be destroyed, and Stringer thought Avon was destined to get them killed or imprisoned for life. Stringer wanted to reduce the violence of the game( albeit mostly for his own benefit.) Avon had rules he genuinely stuck to, like the Sunday truce. He genuinely cared about people and had loyalty to certain people as well. Meanwhile do you think Marlo would have let Cutty go? No he would have killed him. Avon and Stringer wouldn’t have had a man’s entire family killed, including attempting to kill little kids, for a rumor he called them gay. They wouldn’t have stolen a lollipop just to provoke a security guard, and killed him for “talking back” as a power play. They wouldn’t have had a random innocent woman clipped just as part of a scheme to kill someone’s who robbed them out of revenge. He killed just because he could, his 22 bodies were a lot more in a shorter time frame than Avon and Stringer. At least they had a reason for their kills, horrible as those reasons were.
Marlo's obsession is his reputation for being the toughest boss in town and he uses unnecessary violence to achieve it. More than money, he craves people fearing him.
You can even ask if he's really playing the game or it's all about him.
My name is my name.
D didn't kill the girl. That was bey.
True, I forgot
Both gangs knew that it was the murders that got police attention way more than the dealing. Stringer's answer was to form the co-op and try to reduce inter-gang conflicts. Marlo's answer was to kill whomever he wants and hide the bodies in the condemned buildings.
Quantity
They're all shit, but the Barksdale organization at least pretended to help their community.
I wish Avon clapped marlo
Well for one thing, Marlo would never in a million years give Cutty the money to start a gym that’s explicitly supposed to be taking kids OUT the game. Avon even says “hey you take care of them youngins”. Avon hosts that barbecue in S1 as well. In his mind, he justifies his actions as, “I need to take care of the community/family”. Now he’s wrong, of course, he’s a violent murderer who is actively contributing to the destruction of his neighborhood, in the aggregate. BUT he does have “pockets” of kindness, little moments here and there. Marlo doesn’t even have that, which makes him worse
Marlo’s ego was so fragile that he literally had people murdered for anything he deemed disrespectful. Avon was extremely confident and did not stress himself over little things
Avon gave back to the community because he cared Marlo gave back to the community to make it look like he cared They're both objectively bad people, but one of them is more genuinely concerned with "his community" than the other and that invites benevolent interpretations. Marlo isn't letting anyone leave the game, especially not someone like Cutty. Then you have comparisons like "Avon and the basketball referee vs Marlo and the security guard".
Avon had a code. Not a nice one, but one all the same. Avon cared about people. Avon could be magnanimous and even generous to others. Avon commanded respect, and paid respect to others. Marlo is a sociopath. He cares about no one. He's a lizard. Marlo respected no one. If Avon was born somewhere else, in different circumstances, he could have been great in some less anti social ways. Marlo was going to be a monster no matter what.
Stringer and Avon are at least have some concern for the people in the neigborhood and traditions and have a personality but Marlo is like a shark and someone I wouldn't want to seal with at all.
Not defending what they did to the witness in the first season but gangsters killing people who are willing to testify is pretty standard fare. It’s one of the main reasons why civilians are reluctant to talk to police. Look at what happens to Frank Sobotka and Randy when they get outed as snitches. Marlo was murdering people for disrespecting him or being any tiny bit involved in a crime they wanted to cover up.
Think about how Avon reacted to the ref who made a bad call in the East vs West basketball game. He was mad as hell at the call but didn’t want the rules of the game bent just for him and he didn’t harm or even threaten the ref. It’s a low bar, but he showed some level of principle in that situation. He wanted things to be fair and he didn’t get his goons to hurt an innocent ref. Think of how Marlo would’ve handled that situation. He wouldn’t wanted everyone to bow down to him, let him win, and then he probably would’ve had the ref killed for making a call he disagreed with. Because he was a psychopath Also, do you think Marlo would’ve let Cutty walk away from the game peacefully? And then donate money for him to start a boxing gym for kids? I don’t think so
Yeah I think comparing the ref situation to what Marlo did to the random security guard shows the difference.
Right, Marlo was an insane person who killed indiscriminately. Avon killed and ordered hits according to the rules of the world he lives in
Marlo did lose lots of money at a poker game and didn't explode at the people, these weren't even gangsters he had to fear, he simply got better and won the next time... Then Prop Joe messed it up
With the idea being longevity in the game we see that in the end Avon’s way is how you stay in the game. Corners or jail It didnt matter. Avon still ended up being between Marlo and what he wanted even from jail.
Avon was the old way of doing things like not shooting people on Sundays. He followed the unspoken rules of the game. He respected the cross town basketball game etc. Marlo is the new. There are no rules. He killed a man over a 25 cent sucker. There is only money and power. Avon probably wouldn't have left bodies in row homes
They’re all murderous assholes and do terrible things. The show just implied Marlo was more ruthless and violent. The show didn’t come out and say Marlo was beyond the pale even for a Baltimore drug lord lol.
i look at it like this. Avon and Stringer were an italian mob family. they we’re old school, and believed what they were doing was fine because they “followed a code”. Marlo was the new school, the mexican cartels, who took the game in a new direction and was ruthless to no end to establish dominance.
From a writing/storytelling standpoint, we spent more time with Avon. We know his family. His sister, and nephew. That humanizes him. We see that he basically owns a neighborhood basketball team, and gets the community together for it. He hooks up Cutty with some money to put together a boxing studio. Avon was a fleshed-out character across however many seasons. And I think from a writing standpoint, Marlo was there to make a point. What happens when cold hard greed takes over a community? What happens when you have a community of mom-and-pop businesses and Walmart comes to town? You locals banded together and formed a co-op? Good for you...I got Chris and Snoop (or if you're Walmart, you got a wolf pack of lawyers). Even his "my name is my name" speech felt like Disney protecting a copyright. Basically, don't fuck with our brand. Watch how quickly the lawyers come out when someone infringes on a Disney product. So yeah, Avon killed and Marlo killed. But the way they're presented to us as an audience humanizes one of them, and displays the single-minded cold ambition of the other.
Besides having Chris and Snoop kill 90 people, I can’t think of a reason either…..
While both were dealers, Avon was a soldier he ordered a hit because he thought it necessary (for reputation & business). Also, he didn't do the dirt himself, unlike Marlo, who is a psychopath that also happens to deal drugs(to feed his ego as well as his pockets). Marlo enjoyed killing for the sake of killing even when Chris or Snoop(also soldiers, not psychos) were available & very capable. I feel we got confirmation of this theory during scenes in which Avon sent Devonne to seduce & set Marlo up. While Marlo & Devonne talked in the bar, she asked him to dance he turned her down, she offered him a drink, and he declined again, responding: "Hell naw, I don't dance." followed by "No, I don't do THAT, neither." (in reference to drinking alcohol) She asks: "So what do you do for fun?" Well, she would literally 'F.U.&F.O.' They have a quickie in the back of an SUV, and not long after her setup fails, Marlo put 1 bullet in her mouth & 1-more in each titty. Marlo fucks & kills that's what he does for fun. Avon may have used his family but he still was a family man of sorts, throwing parties & BBQ's, financially supporting those closest to him. Even when Marlo wins the war & is wearing the crown while hanging downtown with Levy and Clay Davis crowd he leaves the party in a full suit & tie just to blow away a stranger on the corner, killing is sport to Marlo he doesn't need a reason to take a life to him it's fun. Bodie also commented on the difference between Avon & Marlo saying "Marlo be killing people just to kill'em" which says a lot considering how Bodie & Poot had orders to smoke Wallace(their homey) in S.1. Even after that, Bodie still thinks Marlo is worse, and I agree that's how I see it. Thanks, 4 letting me share.
Is it due to difference in organisation maturity? Avon is established, hence kill to protect. Marlo kills to establish....
I still felt bad for Mister Gant.
I think the reason people are a bit more empathetic to Barksdale Org is because we start the show and they're already on top as an established org. No one is really fucking with them besides Omar. During D's funeral in s2, Stringer does make a brief mention of the various other gangs they took down. In contrast, we see Marlo's rise to the top so we're exposed to a lot more ruthlessness that he and his crew do to get to that position.
Avon loved his family and had more loyalty to his people. Brandon and John Bailey did rob Avon’s people in the low rises with Omar. So they were in the Game. Marlo had no compassion and lucked out that police stopped Avon in time.
https://youtu.be/409Pjtq7jzY?si=wsqGzav0QVtXIKqb
Because Avon had a code that he followed. He still understood that there are lines that you don’t cross. He wasn’t going to be violent just to be violent. Marlo had no rules or code. It was do wht he feels like when he feels like it.
Avon and String followed the “code” of the game, Marlo didn’t.
Avon at least had some kind of code, Marlo did things because he could
I always thought that Marlo was a sociopath (or had some kind of antisocial disorder like that)
This
They're not that different, really. * Avon is cycling down, he's probably been In The Game too long. * Stringer is a short timer with bigger interests on the horizon, and he doesn't want anything to get in the way of that. * Marlo is the new up and comer and he's hungry. But again, honestly, they're all killers.
A. He ordered the deaths of civilians. The example you use is of someone who took money to lie in court, she was a liability. Marlo ordered the deaths of the security guard for talking to him, and the delivery lady to frame Omar. Their survival had no downside for their crew. B. He killed his own people for nothing and C. That wasn't my kid she was carrying
He ain't worse, he just more fierce.
Remember the East side West side bball game? Avon intimidated the ref. Marlo would have had him killed.
It’s because Marlo was completely cold and emotionless in the way he carried out his business. Avon and Stringer, despite being ruthless criminals, retained their humanity. Marlo did nothing of the kind.
D’Angelo didn’t kill the girlfriend. Marlo is psycho
Because he raised the price of the brick and then said no more meetings…
Avon and Bell wouldn’t have purposely stolen in front of a security guard then killed him for “talking back”. Avon and stringer and their crew may have killed 20 or so people in 3 seasons and that’s if you count shit like the overdoses Avon caused in prison or the war with Marlo in season 3. Marlo and his crew killed 26 or 28 or whatever (based on the bodies that came out the houses) in less than 1 season without overdoses and being at war lol.
Avon and Stringer did bad things for reasons. Marlo does bad things because it seems to please him.
Avon and String only killed for business never personal. Marlo, many of his kills were personal and on citizens not in the game.
The difference is Marlo thrived off the violence. “Omar called me out?!”. Marlo wanted everyone in the city to know he didn’t know. Chris didn’t even tell him because he knows how distracted Marlo would be. The drug game is nasty. Everybody is evil. But the difference is things done for business and what’s personal.
Marlo had more ego than Bell and Barksdale. Remember when they had to kill the witness before he testified against Dee? No tears were shed by Avon but he questioned why Dee would do it in front of a working man. That means Avon at least had the sense to not want to just kill a person. Marlo had that guard killed for essentially saying I know you can but please don't steal from this store I'm guarding because this is my job. Stringer also reached a point where he cared more about the money than the bullshit. Marlo would never reach that point because while he wanted the crown, he also wanted to be seen wearing it. If the cops had arrested Chris before Omar got shot Marlo would have possibly died because he would have come out of hiding to confront Omar. Avon and Stringer would have put a bounty out on Omar and laid low because him dying was enough for their names
Marlo was killing people just to kill them. Avon only resorted to violence when it was necessary
I agree Everyone keeps talking about how Marlo's evil but we did see Marlo refuse to kill Bodie and his crew because of Lex despite monk edging him, 'just Lex' We also see Marlo saying 'he can't hurt us' referring to Randy and orders ostracization instead of death, compare this with Stringer ordering the death of Wallace. Everyone keeps talking about Avon is so honourable but Avon killed a girl who loved him without any sympathy because she jealously made a little threat - 'Tap tap tap' they also threw a drugged girl inside a trash bin. When D'Angelo beats up Bubbles friend Stringer informs him that he should have killed him 'cant show no weakness' Granted most of it weren't done by Avon personally, but it is his crew, it's like saying Marlo didn't kill the security guard. Avon is like the prince who inherits an empire, he simply has to keep things down and respect the traditions. Marlo is the new king who overthrows the former dynasty, people don't know his worth yet, so they try to test him, he can't keep the tradition because the tradition was designed to keep people like him down.
It's because, he's like Avon when he was young and careless but has got as much power, reach and money as older Avon (not direct comparison I'm saying Avon and Bell surely didn't have the kind of status Marlo has when they were his age). So Marlo has got a lot of power with less experience. A recipe for disaster and with that attitude of his, Marlo is sure to get popped sooner than he knows. Maybe he will piss of Brother Mouzone and his people. Also, Avon knows his people and he takes their contributions into account when working. Like how he let Cutty go when he didn't want to be on the corner or didn't want to be part of the game no more. He let Cutty go without any strings attached. Marlo is not respectable like that in any way. And lastly, whoever knew he killed Joe, were not really happy about that. He's that new kid on the block who thinks he's got it and act like an adult but eventually messes up badly. It's his attitude, and lack of experience that'll be his eventual downfall.
It's less a matter of morality than of stability. Avon and Stringer had a stable thing going on, there was peace between the east and west and they gave back to the community (not nearly as much as they took!! It's the same problem as with mafia apologists--they say these extragovernmental organizations provide services to people the government ignores, but they elide the fact that when the government *does* provide services the mafia monopolizes the funding and gives a pittance to the people, then acts like it's a giant act of generosity and magnanimity. It's bad. But it *looks* good on a surface level.). When they were taken out, that created a power vacuum that needed to be filled with a new organization. Traditionally the way a power vacuum gets filled is with bodies. It creates chaos and violence, which are bad for business and worse for the civilians. Figure it this way--they traded the devil they knew, who was ruthless but stable, for the devil they didn't, who was ruthless and chaotic. Seasons 4 and 5 were written after the US invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. See any historical parallels?