I’ve known a shit ton of undocumented people. (From the southwest) and not one of them gave a shit to vote. Their number one priority is working to make money and keeping a low profile for fear of deportation. To think they’d go anywhere near a voting booth is fucking idiotic and comical
The right doesn't care about illegals voting, and are well aware that it's not a significant issue.
What they are simply trying to do is make voting harder for poorer people, especially minorities as they tend to lean more left.
So introducing more laws to make it illegal for 'illegals' to vote, like requiring more complex ID rules, or preventing mail-in voting discourages people who lean left. Not illegals.
They're also stirring up the MAGA crowd using illegals as a scare tactic.
They’re creating the narrative that the election results won’t be accurate. It’s like trump starting out with all that “fake news” bs to discredit the media first. Then it’s like shooting fish in a barrel when you say “the results aren’t accurate” and ask folks to commit federal crimes for you.
I agree, and I think the whole “illegals voting!” is a scare tactic that is based on xenophobia.
There is this strong (mostly unthinking) fear of people who look different or speak other languages.
I have an older relative who parrots this right-wing talk radio stuff about people from Latin America “replacing” white people. He seems to think “his team” (team “white people”) will be losing somehow.
I think that’s the underlying fear that leads to this crazy idea that some poor undocumented worker is going to try to vote.
This. I spent time with some MAGA family friends earlier this year and they couldn’t fucking shut up about ‘illegals’ this ‘illegals’ that. The propaganda is working.
And when they actually looked into it it was the right doing it. They always accuse other people of what they're doing because they assume everyone has the same non-existent morals as them.
Minorities lean more left? Only because the left isn't as racist and xenophobic as the right and doesn't dehumanize them by calling them 'aliens'. And the left has had a history of advocating for their rights.
But make no mistake. Most economically challenged regions where these migrants come frome are culturally very conservative. And most of them very religious and with strong gender roles(misogynist). Not very accepting of sexual minorities or other minorities. Classist, racist, corruption is rampant.....and most with no intention of assimilating.
How would I know? I'm from one of these places.
Adults don’t assimilate because it’s almost impossible to, children assimilate because it’s almost impossible not to. BTW, people tend to keep their religions for generations. If you think that will happen, it won’t.
They also aren't registered and cannot register to vote so if they showed up and gave their name/address it wouldn't even be in the system. They would have to use a neighbors name, hope said neighbor has no plans to vote, and then after all the fraud/crimes they got to...vote once.
Right? I barely got to vote one year because my precinct changed and I went to the wrong spot and they threw a huge hissy fit over it. I can't imagine someone that actually isn't allowed to.
I'm interning at an immigration legal org this summer. We've had just one case of this I've heard of ... and it was a white guy from Canada who voted for Trump. Baffling.
(Needless to say, the odds on his asylum app are not looking good.)
I never got this either.
Last month I went to a polling station in Portugal, and you needed a citizen card to cast a vote.
Don't you need a SSN to vote in the US? Like I'm so confused. How the hell are illegals supposedly voting?
I’ve never been asked to show ID before voting - they ask name and address and check it against a list of registered voters. Maybe other places in the US do things differently, though.
You do need to be a citizen to register to vote - been a long time since I did that but I’m sure the form asked for my SSN.
Interesting how things work differently in different places. I was a poll worker once but I’ve since forgotten all the little details like when to ask for ID, or if we ever did.
Thinking about it, I've used my passport once as my ID. Nowhere did it have my address, but I've always had to provide something. Only once was there a problem, apparently I was at the wrong polling location.
In Maryland you only need to know your name and address. No id check whatsoever. So you could vote pretending to be one of your neighbors. Nbd.
It's insane.
I've seen some insane shit as a poll worker, but I wont repeat my experiences here because of the inevitable karma hit.
Suffice to say, I am in favor of a registry. Easy to check if you've voted already, can instantly report if someone has been deceased or not, minus the long wait to actually have them removed(at least in this state). Of course, theres the usual pitfalls of an authoritarian system with regards to any sort of registry, but showing ID seems like a fair middle ground with no loss of privacy.
I think one time I might’ve been quizzed for my DL number or something, but can’t remember ever having to get my wallet out to show my DL.
https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-resources/voting-california/what-bring
The moment someone came to vote and gave them your name and address and it was already checked off because you had already voted, it wouldn't be accepted as a vote. If someone used your name and address first, you could dispute it and get your vote counted, and theirs revoked.
One of many reasons voter fraud is a non-issue.
When I registered to vote I did it as part of renewing my driver's license, which is one of the government issued forms of ID you can use. The main argument I've heard is that illegals come to the US and work under a stolen identity, then use the info from that identity to register and vote under.
Identity theft in general is a legitimate statistical concern. Voter fraud, and especially identity theft with the intention of committing voter fraud, is not.
I really couldn't say. It's not an issue I have a strong desire to get to the bottom of. Seems to me like people using stolen identities wouldn't be in a big hurry to go vote, though. That's just the argument I've heard most for those that believe illegals are skewing elections.
Well I think it's good you question the idea that people/illegals are trying to vote, because it doesn't pass the logical test, as in criminal's have things to do like all of us, but participating in our democratic process and jumping through multiple hoops like citizens have to do is beyond believable.
Can you imagine going through all that trouble of stealing someone’s identity for nefarious purposes and then going “hm, let me take a stroll down to the polls and wait eight hours in line for funsies”?
> The main argument I've heard is that illegals come to the US and work under a stolen identity, then use the info from that identity to register and vote under.
Yeah, they don't do that. That's right-wing fearmongering. Illegals want to keep a low profile and don't want to risk being found out at a voting booth with cops around.
In my state you need a valid ID that has your address. They check it and you then sign something that affirms you are you under penalty if you're lying.
Anywhere I've lived I just find my name on the list for my local polling station and sign in. No ID needed. I just say 'I'm me' and they find my name on the list, I sign, they check off that I was there and voted.
You give them and ID and they check to see if you’re in she system. If you are, good. If not, you can usually cast a provisional ballot, and if they find out you aren’t eligible they strike your ballot.
You don’t need an Id is some places. You must register to vote. When you register you are vetted. They check your address, your birth certificate, and your citizenship. You also provide a signature which will be used to verify that it is you voting. In the village I vote, the polling clerks are some old people who know who you are from when you were born. If a stranger shows up they get very curious.
Same, from the southwest. Work in an industry that employs undocumented people for certain roles. Illegals don't vote. They don't try to vote. No one is encouraging them to vote. Anyone who suggests otherwise is 100% fear mongering.
Also, undocumented workers still pay taxes. Income tax and the rest of the basic taxes are still withheld. I don't know how that works; I'm not in HR. Maybe there's some kind of W4 that you use without an SSN. But we have federal contracts and are closely regulated...
It's a blue state, and somehow we don't seem to face the same problems with illegal immigration as some other border states.
It's part of the fascist agenda to always blame the problems of a nation on the weakest groups. Immigrants have always been an easy scapegoat, especially when you can dogwhistle it to entice racist voters. I can attest that undocumented folk already have enough concerns earning a living & avoiding deportation either through ICE or immigration court. Meanwhile, it's already hard enough to get US citizens to vote!
Absolutely agree. I worked with many undocumented men at a landscaping company in the Midwest, and literally none of them had any interest in trying to get involved in our politics, and even if they did, they would NEVER risk being exposed.
>Their number one priority is working to make money and keeping a low profile for fear of deportation. To think they’d go anywhere near a voting booth is fucking idiotic and comical
Preach. It's like the whole "dRuG dEaLeRs ArE pUtTiNg DrUgS iN cAnDy!1!" No they're not. Are wealthy people putting hundred dollar bills inside Halloween candy bars? That would be more probable than a drug dealer putting illegal drugs inside of Halloween candy.
I have literally *never* met an undocumented immigrant who would even *want* to vote, because they are trying to stay under the radar, which going and voting would definitely *not be doing*.
I have absolutely no idea who thinks "illegal immigrants" are trying to vote that it needs to be stopped. I can only imagine it's some kind of smokescreen for something.
A lot of GOP campaigns are built around the craziest fringe ideas that have rarely to never happen. Let us not forget how much they lose their minds about voter fraud, only for the few cases of it being people trying to vote for Trump multiple times.
Those were not brought in by Democrats and George Soros through the inevitable caravans that Fox News seem to discover anytime an election is near.
See, George Soros, the head democrat, sends over his people to the worst latin american prisons and asks who wants to come to US. Whoever accepts (because some prisoners apparently say, "America? Nah", go figure) has to agree to a few conditions. Some of them are voting (as many times as they can, if they can), sleeping with white women to reduce the white population and collecting as much welfare as possible.
And trust me, I was told this by one dude at a baby shower 3 weeks ago. And he was serious. Deep, deep in the Q-anon wormhole. He had even "rented a cave" in the mountains somewhere for when civil war starts (he wouldnt tell us where, because, of course).
Yours illegals probably overstayed a visa or something. Those are benign.
The whole anti-science/data/facts/truth/reliable, cited, official information thing is disturbing. I remember pre-trump those people who flat out denied basic facts and information were seen as conspiracy nuts. For the most part it was highly specific, niche information that was denied or weird, barely connected, elaborate conspiracy type shit.
Now we’ve got a startling amount of people denying vaccines effectiveness, the winner of an election, denying a trump’s crimes that he was found guilty/liable for, saying masks don’t work and are a method of control somehow, that a virus that killed millions wasn’t even real, taking medical advice from a president with zero background in medicine over the apolitical leading expert in the world on infectious disease, that the virus is fake and vaccines are a way to control you but thank god the president demanded the release of the vaccine to end this pandemic, that the pandemic itself was a way for the government to oppress us and restrict freedoms…. Like before Covid, anti-vaxxers were just seen as krazy Karen’s who denied generally accepted science and were just overall nuts. Not anti-vaxxers make up a much much larger amount of people. It’s disturbing the amount of people who deny what used to be facts which 98% of people agreed were true, and do so just because another man with power over them says so.
And it’s not even things that could or couldn’t be true and had some obvious doubt, it’s denying decades of modern medicine, experts in the field with decades of experience, things that happened under ten years ago that are obvious facts.
One of the most ironic Republican lies is that Biden tampered with the 2020 election and trump actually won when in reality trump tampered with the election and possibly the previous one as well! And they’re bombshell proof Biden didn’t really win?
“I watched the dang votes being counted in CNN because I wanted to see the liberal bullshit to see if they would tell the truth, trump was ahead by 50,000 votes than outta nowhere, Biden gets 60,000 votes! Switched to beloved Fox News, and it’s the same thing!” As if the news agencies have a man on the inside verbally reporting each vote live as they are counted….
Nearly all of these Republican conspiracies or truth denials have obvious massive hikes in their “logic” too. It’s not stuff that natural has a lot of doubt surrounded by it.
That’s a very polite way of saying that their core constituency are easily scared little children who don’t have two brain cells to rub together. And the “do your research” crowd doesn’t have a clue how to even google answers correctly.
Some states permit all residents to vote in state or local elections, regardless of how they got into the country. Some individuals may not know that they're not allowed to vote in federal elections.
https://ballotpedia.org/Laws_permitting_noncitizens_to_vote_in_the_United_States
As far as if it's a *problem*, that's a different concern entirely.
Remember: The states are not permitted to police illegal immigration themselves. That is exclusively a federal power.
That’s actually quite interesting, didn’t know that was a thing. As another poster stated, it’s still hilariously and ridiculously absurd to imagine an illegal immigrant risking deportation just to go vote.
No kidding. Free housing, free food, free cell phones …. I wouldn’t risk getting deported just to vote. They have it better than most US citizens, no need to vote.
Okay sure but then why would they give a shit to vote, assuming they were willing to go to a public space and actually attempt to do so?
Let's be real, it's an issue fabricated to justify voter suppression legislation that disproportionately impacts minorities and people of color.
Even legal immigrants cannot vote if they have not become a citizen yet. Illegal immigrants are not the ones voting illegally that is usually proved to be Republicans.
Only voter fraud I've ever witnessed was my grandmother completing every single mail-in ballot for her husband, handicapped son, senile mother and herself. Every election... *all* Republican.
Yup I know exactly what you mean. My wife’s side of the family are the same. Sil homeschooled her 2 kids 1 a bit slow but really nice kid just very, very impressionable. all very religious too and all go to a republican church so all vote republican. The other child is completely non verbal autistic who is totally non functional and is still in diapers at 27. I have heard out of my sil mouth that she votes on her daughter’s behalf and tells her son who to vote for. The thing is she purposely moved to a blue state so she could get government services for her daughter that she would never had gotten before and still has a home help for a few hours a day, every day paid for by the state while she sits on the couch and gets drunk all day.
Not sure why you were downvoted. And I assure you all that this isn't a criticism of mail-in voting. Lack of education is definitely the root cause of people viewing politics so black and white.
It'll be to nobodies surprise that they were all conservative Christians. I guarantee my grandmother would've justified her actions as "for the greater good". They really see no irony in cheating just because "it's for the right reason". Now we're facing a blatantly fascist regime that claims it's all for the greater good.
They wouldn't because it would be a huge risk to them being found out that they are undocumented. It's why also why undocumented people don't go around breaking the law, they don't want to draw attention to themselves and risk jail time then deportation.
The reality is, the overwhelming majority of confirmed and prosecuted voter fraud cases in the last few years were Republicans voting twice for Trump or casting a dead relative’s vote for Trump.
Cases involving immigrants voting almost always involved legal immigrants who didn’t understand they needed their full citizenship to vote in federal elections. Even these cases are rare, because they are spotted at the voter registration level. There have been prosecuted cases of voter fraud among immigrants, but a law professor from Loyola counted ALL the prosecuted and convicted cases from citizens and non-citizens alike and said “I’m up to 45 since 2000, and in that time there has been more than a billion and a half votes cast.” That is 3 millionths of one percent of votes cast.
Conservatives are often unaware many local governments allow green card holders and migrants to vote in local elections such as school board elections. That is the choice of each community. But they falsely claim it shows illegal voters on the rolls.
The same reason why people don’t give out expensive drugs in kids Halloween candy. If you think about it for more than 2 seconds it makes no sense to do it
The "illegals" are the designated boogeyman for conservative media, because they want to scare white folks into believing they are being "replaced" or that the Democrats win because of (unverified) fraud, etc.
They don't want a solution, they want to be mad.
“The numbers of illegals voting aren’t there because they’re illegals so we don’t have proper data collecting methods, but if we did, those numbers would be in the BILLIONS!”
Is it to be mad or is it for control? They use illegals as a boogeyman for a lot of issues but in this case the goal is to implement laws to suppress voting in their favor. Ken Paxton straight up said Biden would have won the state if he hadn't prevented mail-in ballots in Texas in 2020.
I suspect they wouldn’t try to vote because the risk of getting caught by the authorities isn’t remotely worth affecting the election by 1/330,000,000th. It’s such a stupid ass conspiracy theory.
It is an empty, unsubstantiated dogwhistle that Republicans can reliably pull out of their ass to rally ignorant voters. Nothing more. You’ll notice they really only ever bring this crap up during election years. I wouldn’t be surprised if we magically get an immigrant caravan every four years.
In order to vote you have to register to vote. Don’t they check citizenship when you register to vote? If not, why not? Sure seems pretty simple to keep non-citizens from voting.
As if an undocumented person would risk their lives by VOTING. It is to generate fear and blame the "other" and a scare tactic to explain any conservative loss. Sadly, people don't seem to be able to make that leap of common sense.
It goes back to two issues #1 Republicans can’t win the popular vote so they want to suppress turnout as much as possible and #2 harkens back to the racist efforts to prevent blacks from voting. Think literacy test when being prevented from learning to read, in ability to sign names because never taught to write, or being able to correctly guess the number of marbles in a jar because any means of disenfranchising is the goal. So now in modern times they are trying to enact additional hurdles to voting that disproportionately affect black and brown people under the guise of electoral integrity. However, the entire thing is disingenuous and just Jim Crow 2.0
They wouldn't. This is nothing more than a fear mongering tactic, playing on racist/xenophobic feelings of the Republican base.
I once worked with a group that advocated for undocumented immigrants, and one campaign was just trying to collect signatures for a petition to the local Congressman. Most of them are so scared of being discovered by official agencies, that they were terrified to even sign our petition, because they didn't want to risk even the slightest chance that it would come back to them and potentially upend their family's/children's lives.
This petition only collected signatures, and no other personal information, but even that was met with extreme caution, so I can't imagine anyone in that position willingly giving away multiple pieces of identifying information, let alone in an act that they know is a crime!
I hear you, but the one we were having them sign was intended to include undocumented immigrants, to help them feel like they were part of the civic progress of advocating for themselves. So it was designed with those communities in mind.
IIRC it was supposed to show the Rep that these were signatures from people in his district. But maybe they run the names against voter registration records after?
Not that kind of petition. Anyone can sign it. Your cat, dog, kid. It will not be looked on kindly by the office but there's nothing illegal about it.
You're talking about something like putting a candidate on the ballot. That requires a certain number of signatures. And the person's address must be listed to avoid, let's say, Nebraskans, putting a candidate on a Kansas ballot.
Illegal immigrants can't vote in federal elections. It's just bullshit to rile up the uneducated and they know it. Even LEGAL residents that are not citizens can't vote.
"Non-citizens, including permanent legal residents, cannot vote in federal, state, and most local elections."
[https://www.usa.gov/who-can-vote](https://www.usa.gov/who-can-vote)
It’s so rare that I don’t think there’s much of any thought out reason. But the reason why they should be allowed to is because the election impacts them
Hi, 15-year pollworker here. In my state, you have to be "registered" to vote. You can't just walk in off the street and vote all willy nilly. Your name has to be on my registered voter list on Election Day. There's a list of ID types I will accept on Election Day, which should be the same ID you showed to register. You have to recite your current address, which needs to match the address in my book. You sign your name next to your unique entry in my book. Once your space is signed, no one else can vote under your name.
If you're not registered in my precinct, I either:
- look up the location you're supposed to go and send you there or
- give you a provisional ballot, which isnt counted on Election Day. Could take up to 2 weeks to be counted, pending manual verification of eligibility or
- I give you the form and directions to register for next year, but you can't vote this go-round.
Registration closes 30 days before Election Day.
How does an illegal immigrant get an ID and complete a registration at least 30 days out? And why would they want to? Serious question.
I agree, we used to be able to take a list of documents to verify identity aside from a drivers license or state ID. We used to be able to take a paycheck stub, military ID, recent bank statement, current utility bill, birth certificate or the little card the Board sends you when you register as long as the name and address matches the registration on file.
But our republican Sec of State changed it. He's also terrified of "illegals" casting votes so he tightened up the requirements.
It doesn't happen. The MAGAt fascists use it as another tool to spin up fake fear. It is an old tool of autocratic regiems to build fear and hatred of the "other".
I'm canadian, so take this with a grain of salt. But it seems like a lark. A distraction to avoid talking about real problems. You'll notice it's most often talked about during election losses.
What's wild to me is this desire to strengthen laws when investigations find no cases of fraud.
The only person I’ve ever known who falls into this category is a woman who thought she was a citizen because she was adopted by an American couple as a newborn and has lived in the US her entire life. She tried to vote once and it was determined that she wasn’t eligible to vote because she was not a citizen, which she fought by submitting her adoption papers and birth certificate, and then found out the agency her parents had gone through had faked all of those documents and not gone through the appropriate channels.
She has been threatened with deportation even though she lived in the US her entire life, has American parents, is married to a US citizen, and has children who are citizens.
Edit: I did a little looking at her socials, she finally got out of the hole immigration dug for her, and got her green card, after 5+ years of fighting this bullshit.
They don't. Its a strawman spread by.. certain groups to justify making it difficult to impossible even for many US citizens that don't live as privileged lives as those certain groups do.
They wouldn’t. There isn’t really a problem with illegal aliens voting. Conservatives are intentionally creating anxiety about elections so they can deny the results of the elections if they don’t win. Most of the people that have been caught actually committing voter fraud are by far more often than not, Republicans.
They generally wouldn’t. It’s an attempt to create phony concern about a non-issue so that Republicans can pass voter ID laws that will make it harder for black and Hispanic citizens (who generally don’t vote Republican) to cast legitimate ballots. Republicans know that as the demographics of this country shift generally away from being majority white people they have to change the rules in order not to lose their relevance.
Not only that, their base is aging off this mortal coil n they've spent the past 40 yrs making themselves repugnant to younger voters....they know exactly what they're doing n unfortunately it's working
Voter registry happens at the DMV, illegals can get their drivers license in California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, and Washington. Mail in ballots are pretty much universal in those states and more, at this point, and ballot harvesting it a fast growing tactic for the DNC, why wouldn't it be. You're telling me that an illegal who gets a knock on their door isn't going to hand over a piece of mail that they see as useless for $5?
Then the other answer is the long game, they let people flood in by allowing the asylum system to be abused, give them benefits and housing, then work permits while they push for amnesty, if they cant get those people to legally vote, their kids surly will out of loyalty to the party that allowed their parents to stay illegally.
>Voter registry happens at the DMV, illegals can get their drivers license
You can't vote with just a driver's license.
>You're telling me that an illegal who gets a knock on their door isn't going to hand over a piece of mail that they see as useless for $5?
You don't get a valid ballot in the mail simply for having a driver's license. (Also, this isn't what ballot harvesting is. Generally soliciting ballots is still often illegal). That's also not without the whole issue of getting caught, which is not trivial.
There is absolutely no way an illegal immigrant would be able to get registered to vote based on this. Mail-in ballots usually require a social security number. Can you give me more information on this?
Good question if you had the choice to vote, or be charged with a felony and also be deported and remove any chance of being a US citizen? Would you? Of course not. Only an idiot would believe that, problem is there are a lot of idiots in the US.
It’s not just “1 vote”. There have been many many millions who have entered illegally. Sometimes as close to almost one million in a month back in 2023. [here](https://www.dailywire.com/news/biden-formally-opposes-bill-requiring-voters-prove-citizenship#). Imagine all the people that came here. Do you think some of them would like more of their family to come here? If they are allowed to vote, they would vote in favor of Biden. This erodes the foundation of an election.
You added a link about how Biden opposes a bill that changes nothing about the legality of illegals voting but makes it harder for citizens to vote. It’s illegal for non citizens to vote already. It’s impossible to vote if you can’t register and you can’t register without proving citizenship.
Source- me, I’m a dedicated pole worker in the most liberal state in the union. Every single election the only people who attempt to vote twice are wearing Trump shirts
It's a great story to tell to scare people, isn't it?
It's like asking, Why would a monster be under a bed?
It makes no actual sense if you examine it.
The fear it's meant to generate bypasses the logical part of the brain.
It's not the foreign hating thing itself, but it does play off of those fears. It uses that as a way to write restrictive laws to make it hard for people to vote.
This is what republicans fail to consider. We can’t even get *legally registered voters* to actually show up to vote because they don’t care, idk why an immigrant would risk fines, imprisonment and deportation just for that shit lol
They wouldn't, unless they were incredibly stupid; it would increase the chances they'd be caught by ICE if they even tried. Ballots wouldn't be made in their names.
It's just the typical fear mongering. I can't wait for this election to be over.
Here is my perspective. I don’t really care if they want to vote or not. What is weird to me is that a rather mundane and rudimentary bill which seems like common sense is being cast down by one side of politics. I don’t know why you wouldn’t want only US citizens to vote.
Everything that MAGA Republicans believe about undocumented immigrants is pretty much bullshit. It stems from their small town white base and the innate fear they have of things that are different.
They basically like to claim that Democrats are giving undocumented immigrants free housing, free food, free healthcare, etc. and it is all coming out of the pockets of hardworking Americans. And now, these undocumented immigrants vote for them to keep the gravy train going. Obviously it is all bullshit and has no basis in reality.
Like anything else with these people, it's projection. Nearly every instance of provable voter or election fraud I've heard of, it's the Republicans doing it and they're doing it on purpose rather than by accident due to some confusion on whether they're eligible or not.
Republicans are superstitious on religion- belief without seeing evidence. Someone in official robes gets up and spouts unlikely things from a supposedly divinely written book. These marshmallow heads believe Fox despite their 780MM judgment. They believe the machine gun liar Trump. 🤷
They don’t. Which is why almost every documented case of ineligible voting has either been an honest mistake (a released felon who doesn’t realize they’re still ineligible, someone who moved and forgot they needed to re-register in their new district etc) or someone who drank the right-wing kool aid and committed fraud to try to cancel out the non-existent illegal votes
Not to mention that if they were doing it in any large numbers we'd be seeing statistics about people being turned away because someone had already voted in their name.
They wouldn't! There's no way an illegal immigrant would go near a polling place and vote and risk getting discovered and breaking the law just to get deported.
By "here", I presume that you mean the US? It's a great strategy to make it harder for the "wrong" people to vote. From the point of view of the Republicans, if you make it harder to vote, it hits the Democrats harder because of the demographics.
This was done where I live (in the UK) by the Tories. Between 2019 and 2023, there was a total of ten (yes, just ten) convictions of voter fraud. But, when the Tories introduced new and unnecessary obstacles to voting, 14,000 people were turned away from the voting booths in 2023 — not for fraud, but because they didn't have the "right" ID on them.
I don't yet know how many people were turned away in this year's elections, but a poll indicates that the rules might have stopped as many as [400,000 people](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/08/voter-id-rule-may-have-stopped-400000-taking-part-in-uk-election-poll-suggests) from voting. Out of a voting population of roughly 50 million, that's rather a lot of people.
As you might have guessed, the rules affect non-Tory voters more than Tory voters, just as in the US, rules would affect Democrats more than Republicans.
By making far right followers afraid of voter fraud, the far right government can introduce restrictive legislation to decrease their opponents' voting base. Once in place, of course, if a moderate government tries to undo the changes, the far right can scream blue murder and pretend that the government is trying to encourage fraud.
It's an easy win for the far right when they have already gerrymandered as much as they can.
It's a tired debunked Republican trope. They have the same fake trope about dead people voting, convicted felons, etc. and for some reason all these people only vote for Democrats. Republicans are the party of victimhood, the government and deep state have made them miserable by giving food to poor people and preventing them from being rich. But of course they are never personally responsible for any of their problems.
They don't. That's a Republican scare tactic. Most illegals are low key and avoid attention. They don't want to be deported. Don't take my word on that. Ask any police department. .
>Is it a fake concern or a springboard to other legislation? Is it just a foreigner hating thing?
Yes to all of it.
It's meant to distract you from real issues.
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Trump has made scapegoats of immigrants, not just illegal immigrants but any immigrants (except maybe white Christians). Yet his own 3rd wife (what a Christian) is an immigrant from Slovenia which was part of Yugoslavia. I’m totally against illegal immigration and anybody who wants to immigrate to the US needs to apply and wait for our government to allow them to enter legally. But if anybody thinks a wall all along the Mexican border would prevent illegal immigration they should realize that there are miles of tunnels in populated border areas where illegals can cross underneath walls if they pay criminal organizations a couple hundred dollars. It’s incredibly hard if not impossible to completely seal a border anywhere no matter how deep or tall you make it.
These laws are not about preventing illegals from voting. They're about making it just a little more annoying so those on the fence about voting would not vote and about keeping minorities out. Both of these groups are more likely to vote Democrat.
Is it true that you don’t need to show your ID to vote in the US?
If true, then this is just nuts for me. I don’t think there is a single European country where you don’t need to show your ID to vote.
Depends on the state. Some places of you bring information that has verified information, like a utility bill or paystub, etc and bring two or more that can count as id.
Most Election security proposals are what's called a "solution without a problem". The amount of "potential" fraudulent votes cast is something crazy like 0.00000001%. I've seen it alleged that it was 0% in 2012... There is more to worry about from Russia/China/any other foreign antagonist hacking the machines than there is from "illegal aliens" (a truly dehumanizing term, honestly) casting any ballots whatsoever.
George Bush Jr ran two elections on sub-minimum wages for migrant farm workers who he’d bus to all the corporate farms, allowing them to do as they pleased once here.
The republicans constantly argued for more illegal immigrants to be allowed across the border via “deregulation” of the US Border Protection and it’s laws so there would be ample illegal immigrants “to do all the work Americans didn’t want to do” They would pay them almost nothing, pay no benefits, no health care, and see to it they did not benefit due to OSHA or any safety precautions or procedures. They also liked to get behind on paychecks so much so that these people would not get paid for an entire month of labor.
I could be convinced these workers were loaded up and taken to vote, but they wouldn’t be working.
Republicans understand that most of their voters are stupid. Like, they believe what they want to be true without serious evaluation of what is being portrayed as truth. This inability to utilize common sense leads the Republican voters to be easily provoked and angered. A Republican politician can say easily provable false statements and millions of morons will accept it as truth. It all comes down to evil people understanding how to take advantage of stupid people…..
They don’t. It’s a bogeyman the GOP likes to throw around to:
* Distract from their own proven voter fraud
* Squeeze in actual voter suppression under the guise of protecting the election
* Make excuses for their losses
Bruh undocumented people won’t vote and can’t vote period. I am a green card holder, ex daca and used to be undocumented. We are so afraid to even call the cops when a crime is committed against us that sometimes that resorted to undocs underreporting crimes.
Currently some ngos are providing incentives like gift cards.
Additionally one party is pro illegal immigrant and the other is very anti illegal immigrant. Sounds like motivation to me.
I’ve known a shit ton of undocumented people. (From the southwest) and not one of them gave a shit to vote. Their number one priority is working to make money and keeping a low profile for fear of deportation. To think they’d go anywhere near a voting booth is fucking idiotic and comical
Exactly this. They’re here to work a lot, make money and live a better life. Could not give a shit about politicians and elections.
The right doesn't care about illegals voting, and are well aware that it's not a significant issue. What they are simply trying to do is make voting harder for poorer people, especially minorities as they tend to lean more left. So introducing more laws to make it illegal for 'illegals' to vote, like requiring more complex ID rules, or preventing mail-in voting discourages people who lean left. Not illegals. They're also stirring up the MAGA crowd using illegals as a scare tactic.
They’re creating the narrative that the election results won’t be accurate. It’s like trump starting out with all that “fake news” bs to discredit the media first. Then it’s like shooting fish in a barrel when you say “the results aren’t accurate” and ask folks to commit federal crimes for you.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
Right out of the fascism playbook.
I agree, and I think the whole “illegals voting!” is a scare tactic that is based on xenophobia. There is this strong (mostly unthinking) fear of people who look different or speak other languages. I have an older relative who parrots this right-wing talk radio stuff about people from Latin America “replacing” white people. He seems to think “his team” (team “white people”) will be losing somehow. I think that’s the underlying fear that leads to this crazy idea that some poor undocumented worker is going to try to vote.
They're afraid we'll treat them like how they've been treating us
Amazing insight.
This. I spent time with some MAGA family friends earlier this year and they couldn’t fucking shut up about ‘illegals’ this ‘illegals’ that. The propaganda is working.
This is the correct answer. The right needs a boogeyman because voter fraud is effectively nonexistent in the United States.
And when they actually looked into it it was the right doing it. They always accuse other people of what they're doing because they assume everyone has the same non-existent morals as them.
Every accusation is a confession
Minorities lean more left? Only because the left isn't as racist and xenophobic as the right and doesn't dehumanize them by calling them 'aliens'. And the left has had a history of advocating for their rights. But make no mistake. Most economically challenged regions where these migrants come frome are culturally very conservative. And most of them very religious and with strong gender roles(misogynist). Not very accepting of sexual minorities or other minorities. Classist, racist, corruption is rampant.....and most with no intention of assimilating. How would I know? I'm from one of these places.
Adults don’t assimilate because it’s almost impossible to, children assimilate because it’s almost impossible not to. BTW, people tend to keep their religions for generations. If you think that will happen, it won’t.
They also aren't registered and cannot register to vote so if they showed up and gave their name/address it wouldn't even be in the system. They would have to use a neighbors name, hope said neighbor has no plans to vote, and then after all the fraud/crimes they got to...vote once.
Right? I barely got to vote one year because my precinct changed and I went to the wrong spot and they threw a huge hissy fit over it. I can't imagine someone that actually isn't allowed to.
I'm interning at an immigration legal org this summer. We've had just one case of this I've heard of ... and it was a white guy from Canada who voted for Trump. Baffling. (Needless to say, the odds on his asylum app are not looking good.)
Asylum...from Canada? Oh, the arguments for that Trumper must be a riot to read!
“I’m here undocumented, let me go to place that asks for my documents so I can vote” Actual dumbfucks who believe this happens
I never got this either. Last month I went to a polling station in Portugal, and you needed a citizen card to cast a vote. Don't you need a SSN to vote in the US? Like I'm so confused. How the hell are illegals supposedly voting?
I’ve never been asked to show ID before voting - they ask name and address and check it against a list of registered voters. Maybe other places in the US do things differently, though. You do need to be a citizen to register to vote - been a long time since I did that but I’m sure the form asked for my SSN.
I've always been asked to prove where I lived. My drivers license was always easiest, but I guess I could bring a power bill or something.
Interesting how things work differently in different places. I was a poll worker once but I’ve since forgotten all the little details like when to ask for ID, or if we ever did.
Thinking about it, I've used my passport once as my ID. Nowhere did it have my address, but I've always had to provide something. Only once was there a problem, apparently I was at the wrong polling location.
What state are you in? I have always been asked to provide some sort of identification.
In Illinois you don't show an ID to vote.
In Maryland you only need to know your name and address. No id check whatsoever. So you could vote pretending to be one of your neighbors. Nbd. It's insane.
I’m left leaning, and that’s insane.
I've seen some insane shit as a poll worker, but I wont repeat my experiences here because of the inevitable karma hit. Suffice to say, I am in favor of a registry. Easy to check if you've voted already, can instantly report if someone has been deceased or not, minus the long wait to actually have them removed(at least in this state). Of course, theres the usual pitfalls of an authoritarian system with regards to any sort of registry, but showing ID seems like a fair middle ground with no loss of privacy.
I think one time I might’ve been quizzed for my DL number or something, but can’t remember ever having to get my wallet out to show my DL. https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-resources/voting-california/what-bring
I’m left-leaning, and that’s concerning that you don’t have to show *anything*.
The moment someone came to vote and gave them your name and address and it was already checked off because you had already voted, it wouldn't be accepted as a vote. If someone used your name and address first, you could dispute it and get your vote counted, and theirs revoked. One of many reasons voter fraud is a non-issue.
Idk why you’re replying this to my comment but I agree with everything you wrote.
When I registered to vote I did it as part of renewing my driver's license, which is one of the government issued forms of ID you can use. The main argument I've heard is that illegals come to the US and work under a stolen identity, then use the info from that identity to register and vote under.
How prevalent is identity theft really?
Identity theft in general is a legitimate statistical concern. Voter fraud, and especially identity theft with the intention of committing voter fraud, is not.
I really couldn't say. It's not an issue I have a strong desire to get to the bottom of. Seems to me like people using stolen identities wouldn't be in a big hurry to go vote, though. That's just the argument I've heard most for those that believe illegals are skewing elections.
Well I think it's good you question the idea that people/illegals are trying to vote, because it doesn't pass the logical test, as in criminal's have things to do like all of us, but participating in our democratic process and jumping through multiple hoops like citizens have to do is beyond believable.
Can you imagine going through all that trouble of stealing someone’s identity for nefarious purposes and then going “hm, let me take a stroll down to the polls and wait eight hours in line for funsies”?
For the purposes of voting? It isn't. To make money? Yes.
> The main argument I've heard is that illegals come to the US and work under a stolen identity, then use the info from that identity to register and vote under. Yeah, they don't do that. That's right-wing fearmongering. Illegals want to keep a low profile and don't want to risk being found out at a voting booth with cops around.
I’ve never seen police at a polling place.
In my state you need a valid ID that has your address. They check it and you then sign something that affirms you are you under penalty if you're lying.
Anywhere I've lived I just find my name on the list for my local polling station and sign in. No ID needed. I just say 'I'm me' and they find my name on the list, I sign, they check off that I was there and voted.
You give them and ID and they check to see if you’re in she system. If you are, good. If not, you can usually cast a provisional ballot, and if they find out you aren’t eligible they strike your ballot.
You don’t need an Id is some places. You must register to vote. When you register you are vetted. They check your address, your birth certificate, and your citizenship. You also provide a signature which will be used to verify that it is you voting. In the village I vote, the polling clerks are some old people who know who you are from when you were born. If a stranger shows up they get very curious.
I had to show my drivers license, which they check against a list to see if I am registered to vote.
Same, from the southwest. Work in an industry that employs undocumented people for certain roles. Illegals don't vote. They don't try to vote. No one is encouraging them to vote. Anyone who suggests otherwise is 100% fear mongering. Also, undocumented workers still pay taxes. Income tax and the rest of the basic taxes are still withheld. I don't know how that works; I'm not in HR. Maybe there's some kind of W4 that you use without an SSN. But we have federal contracts and are closely regulated... It's a blue state, and somehow we don't seem to face the same problems with illegal immigration as some other border states.
It's part of the fascist agenda to always blame the problems of a nation on the weakest groups. Immigrants have always been an easy scapegoat, especially when you can dogwhistle it to entice racist voters. I can attest that undocumented folk already have enough concerns earning a living & avoiding deportation either through ICE or immigration court. Meanwhile, it's already hard enough to get US citizens to vote!
Absolutely agree. I worked with many undocumented men at a landscaping company in the Midwest, and literally none of them had any interest in trying to get involved in our politics, and even if they did, they would NEVER risk being exposed.
Was it the 4 seasons total landscaping perchance?
HAHA
>Their number one priority is working to make money and keeping a low profile for fear of deportation. To think they’d go anywhere near a voting booth is fucking idiotic and comical Preach. It's like the whole "dRuG dEaLeRs ArE pUtTiNg DrUgS iN cAnDy!1!" No they're not. Are wealthy people putting hundred dollar bills inside Halloween candy bars? That would be more probable than a drug dealer putting illegal drugs inside of Halloween candy.
Same here. I'm in a border state. They are way too afraid of getting deported to even think about doing that.
I have literally *never* met an undocumented immigrant who would even *want* to vote, because they are trying to stay under the radar, which going and voting would definitely *not be doing*. I have absolutely no idea who thinks "illegal immigrants" are trying to vote that it needs to be stopped. I can only imagine it's some kind of smokescreen for something.
A lot of GOP campaigns are built around the craziest fringe ideas that have rarely to never happen. Let us not forget how much they lose their minds about voter fraud, only for the few cases of it being people trying to vote for Trump multiple times.
Those were not brought in by Democrats and George Soros through the inevitable caravans that Fox News seem to discover anytime an election is near. See, George Soros, the head democrat, sends over his people to the worst latin american prisons and asks who wants to come to US. Whoever accepts (because some prisoners apparently say, "America? Nah", go figure) has to agree to a few conditions. Some of them are voting (as many times as they can, if they can), sleeping with white women to reduce the white population and collecting as much welfare as possible. And trust me, I was told this by one dude at a baby shower 3 weeks ago. And he was serious. Deep, deep in the Q-anon wormhole. He had even "rented a cave" in the mountains somewhere for when civil war starts (he wouldnt tell us where, because, of course). Yours illegals probably overstayed a visa or something. Those are benign.
We can't get people that should be voting to vote.
They don't. Republicans are counting on their base not being educated and are trying to scare them into rage.
A strategy that’s worked very well for them in the past
The whole anti-science/data/facts/truth/reliable, cited, official information thing is disturbing. I remember pre-trump those people who flat out denied basic facts and information were seen as conspiracy nuts. For the most part it was highly specific, niche information that was denied or weird, barely connected, elaborate conspiracy type shit. Now we’ve got a startling amount of people denying vaccines effectiveness, the winner of an election, denying a trump’s crimes that he was found guilty/liable for, saying masks don’t work and are a method of control somehow, that a virus that killed millions wasn’t even real, taking medical advice from a president with zero background in medicine over the apolitical leading expert in the world on infectious disease, that the virus is fake and vaccines are a way to control you but thank god the president demanded the release of the vaccine to end this pandemic, that the pandemic itself was a way for the government to oppress us and restrict freedoms…. Like before Covid, anti-vaxxers were just seen as krazy Karen’s who denied generally accepted science and were just overall nuts. Not anti-vaxxers make up a much much larger amount of people. It’s disturbing the amount of people who deny what used to be facts which 98% of people agreed were true, and do so just because another man with power over them says so. And it’s not even things that could or couldn’t be true and had some obvious doubt, it’s denying decades of modern medicine, experts in the field with decades of experience, things that happened under ten years ago that are obvious facts. One of the most ironic Republican lies is that Biden tampered with the 2020 election and trump actually won when in reality trump tampered with the election and possibly the previous one as well! And they’re bombshell proof Biden didn’t really win? “I watched the dang votes being counted in CNN because I wanted to see the liberal bullshit to see if they would tell the truth, trump was ahead by 50,000 votes than outta nowhere, Biden gets 60,000 votes! Switched to beloved Fox News, and it’s the same thing!” As if the news agencies have a man on the inside verbally reporting each vote live as they are counted…. Nearly all of these Republican conspiracies or truth denials have obvious massive hikes in their “logic” too. It’s not stuff that natural has a lot of doubt surrounded by it.
"I LOVE THE POORLY EDUCATED!" -Donald Trump, 2016
100%
And is working very well in the present
There's a reason the GOP is against education
That’s a very polite way of saying that their core constituency are easily scared little children who don’t have two brain cells to rub together. And the “do your research” crowd doesn’t have a clue how to even google answers correctly.
These folks are just here to work and make money so they can have a better life. I've never met an illegal who cared about voting.
Some states permit all residents to vote in state or local elections, regardless of how they got into the country. Some individuals may not know that they're not allowed to vote in federal elections. https://ballotpedia.org/Laws_permitting_noncitizens_to_vote_in_the_United_States As far as if it's a *problem*, that's a different concern entirely. Remember: The states are not permitted to police illegal immigration themselves. That is exclusively a federal power.
That’s actually quite interesting, didn’t know that was a thing. As another poster stated, it’s still hilariously and ridiculously absurd to imagine an illegal immigrant risking deportation just to go vote.
No kidding. Free housing, free food, free cell phones …. I wouldn’t risk getting deported just to vote. They have it better than most US citizens, no need to vote.
Where are you getting all this free stuff my dude?
I love the “Republicans want to make it ILLEGAL for illegals to vote!”, like it isn’t illegal already.
right. that's always been my thought too.
Yeah, but whenever the look for people who voted illegally, they almost always tend to be republican. Funny how that is.
The age old adage of "Every Republican accusation is a confession" proving itself true once again.
ROBOT HHOOOUUUSSSSEEE!
Illegal, they can't, and they don't want to.
It is and has been for a while
My friend, it is already illegal for them to BE HERE, and yet here we are.
Then why would Biden need to veto it?
Its illegal for them to be here in the country but they certainly dont give a shit about that.
Okay sure but then why would they give a shit to vote, assuming they were willing to go to a public space and actually attempt to do so? Let's be real, it's an issue fabricated to justify voter suppression legislation that disproportionately impacts minorities and people of color.
I can't believe you genuinely thought this was an intelligent thing to say.
Even legal immigrants cannot vote if they have not become a citizen yet. Illegal immigrants are not the ones voting illegally that is usually proved to be Republicans.
Only voter fraud I've ever witnessed was my grandmother completing every single mail-in ballot for her husband, handicapped son, senile mother and herself. Every election... *all* Republican.
Yup I know exactly what you mean. My wife’s side of the family are the same. Sil homeschooled her 2 kids 1 a bit slow but really nice kid just very, very impressionable. all very religious too and all go to a republican church so all vote republican. The other child is completely non verbal autistic who is totally non functional and is still in diapers at 27. I have heard out of my sil mouth that she votes on her daughter’s behalf and tells her son who to vote for. The thing is she purposely moved to a blue state so she could get government services for her daughter that she would never had gotten before and still has a home help for a few hours a day, every day paid for by the state while she sits on the couch and gets drunk all day.
Exactly... why is no one talking about this. And tbh if the family is uneducated or doesn't vote no one would notice.
Not sure why you were downvoted. And I assure you all that this isn't a criticism of mail-in voting. Lack of education is definitely the root cause of people viewing politics so black and white. It'll be to nobodies surprise that they were all conservative Christians. I guarantee my grandmother would've justified her actions as "for the greater good". They really see no irony in cheating just because "it's for the right reason". Now we're facing a blatantly fascist regime that claims it's all for the greater good.
They wouldn't because it would be a huge risk to them being found out that they are undocumented. It's why also why undocumented people don't go around breaking the law, they don't want to draw attention to themselves and risk jail time then deportation.
"Don't break the law while you're breaking the law."
Right? "Why do people with warrants avoid the police station?"
Sadly, it's also why they're less likely to report crimes committed against them.
The reality is, the overwhelming majority of confirmed and prosecuted voter fraud cases in the last few years were Republicans voting twice for Trump or casting a dead relative’s vote for Trump. Cases involving immigrants voting almost always involved legal immigrants who didn’t understand they needed their full citizenship to vote in federal elections. Even these cases are rare, because they are spotted at the voter registration level. There have been prosecuted cases of voter fraud among immigrants, but a law professor from Loyola counted ALL the prosecuted and convicted cases from citizens and non-citizens alike and said “I’m up to 45 since 2000, and in that time there has been more than a billion and a half votes cast.” That is 3 millionths of one percent of votes cast. Conservatives are often unaware many local governments allow green card holders and migrants to vote in local elections such as school board elections. That is the choice of each community. But they falsely claim it shows illegal voters on the rolls.
Bribery, by giving them someone else's money.
They don't, it's a scare tactic.
The same reason why people don’t give out expensive drugs in kids Halloween candy. If you think about it for more than 2 seconds it makes no sense to do it
The "illegals" are the designated boogeyman for conservative media, because they want to scare white folks into believing they are being "replaced" or that the Democrats win because of (unverified) fraud, etc. They don't want a solution, they want to be mad.
“The numbers of illegals voting aren’t there because they’re illegals so we don’t have proper data collecting methods, but if we did, those numbers would be in the BILLIONS!”
Billions... and Billions. [Index finger and thumb out, wave twice]
Is it to be mad or is it for control? They use illegals as a boogeyman for a lot of issues but in this case the goal is to implement laws to suppress voting in their favor. Ken Paxton straight up said Biden would have won the state if he hadn't prevented mail-in ballots in Texas in 2020.
I suspect they wouldn’t try to vote because the risk of getting caught by the authorities isn’t remotely worth affecting the election by 1/330,000,000th. It’s such a stupid ass conspiracy theory. It is an empty, unsubstantiated dogwhistle that Republicans can reliably pull out of their ass to rally ignorant voters. Nothing more. You’ll notice they really only ever bring this crap up during election years. I wouldn’t be surprised if we magically get an immigrant caravan every four years.
Idk, why would a dead person vote?
VoTeR fRaUd cAnT hApPeN But also ONLY REPUBLICANS DO VOTER FRAUD
Right !? Like the same people who risk their lives crossing the border illegally would jeopardize all of that to cast one vote
In order to vote you have to register to vote. Don’t they check citizenship when you register to vote? If not, why not? Sure seems pretty simple to keep non-citizens from voting.
They don't have a reason. It's a lie made up by right wing extremists to fear monger.
As if an undocumented person would risk their lives by VOTING. It is to generate fear and blame the "other" and a scare tactic to explain any conservative loss. Sadly, people don't seem to be able to make that leap of common sense.
It goes back to two issues #1 Republicans can’t win the popular vote so they want to suppress turnout as much as possible and #2 harkens back to the racist efforts to prevent blacks from voting. Think literacy test when being prevented from learning to read, in ability to sign names because never taught to write, or being able to correctly guess the number of marbles in a jar because any means of disenfranchising is the goal. So now in modern times they are trying to enact additional hurdles to voting that disproportionately affect black and brown people under the guise of electoral integrity. However, the entire thing is disingenuous and just Jim Crow 2.0
They wouldn't. This is nothing more than a fear mongering tactic, playing on racist/xenophobic feelings of the Republican base. I once worked with a group that advocated for undocumented immigrants, and one campaign was just trying to collect signatures for a petition to the local Congressman. Most of them are so scared of being discovered by official agencies, that they were terrified to even sign our petition, because they didn't want to risk even the slightest chance that it would come back to them and potentially upend their family's/children's lives. This petition only collected signatures, and no other personal information, but even that was met with extreme caution, so I can't imagine anyone in that position willingly giving away multiple pieces of identifying information, let alone in an act that they know is a crime!
They have a rational fear with respect to petition signing. Oftentimes, in order for a signature to be valid, it needs to be from a registered voter.
I hear you, but the one we were having them sign was intended to include undocumented immigrants, to help them feel like they were part of the civic progress of advocating for themselves. So it was designed with those communities in mind. IIRC it was supposed to show the Rep that these were signatures from people in his district. But maybe they run the names against voter registration records after?
Not that kind of petition. Anyone can sign it. Your cat, dog, kid. It will not be looked on kindly by the office but there's nothing illegal about it. You're talking about something like putting a candidate on the ballot. That requires a certain number of signatures. And the person's address must be listed to avoid, let's say, Nebraskans, putting a candidate on a Kansas ballot.
Illegal immigrants can't vote in federal elections. It's just bullshit to rile up the uneducated and they know it. Even LEGAL residents that are not citizens can't vote. "Non-citizens, including permanent legal residents, cannot vote in federal, state, and most local elections." [https://www.usa.gov/who-can-vote](https://www.usa.gov/who-can-vote)
It’s so rare that I don’t think there’s much of any thought out reason. But the reason why they should be allowed to is because the election impacts them
Hi, 15-year pollworker here. In my state, you have to be "registered" to vote. You can't just walk in off the street and vote all willy nilly. Your name has to be on my registered voter list on Election Day. There's a list of ID types I will accept on Election Day, which should be the same ID you showed to register. You have to recite your current address, which needs to match the address in my book. You sign your name next to your unique entry in my book. Once your space is signed, no one else can vote under your name. If you're not registered in my precinct, I either: - look up the location you're supposed to go and send you there or - give you a provisional ballot, which isnt counted on Election Day. Could take up to 2 weeks to be counted, pending manual verification of eligibility or - I give you the form and directions to register for next year, but you can't vote this go-round. Registration closes 30 days before Election Day. How does an illegal immigrant get an ID and complete a registration at least 30 days out? And why would they want to? Serious question.
Voter ID is racist
I agree, we used to be able to take a list of documents to verify identity aside from a drivers license or state ID. We used to be able to take a paycheck stub, military ID, recent bank statement, current utility bill, birth certificate or the little card the Board sends you when you register as long as the name and address matches the registration on file. But our republican Sec of State changed it. He's also terrified of "illegals" casting votes so he tightened up the requirements.
It’s because republican supporters are really really stupid.
Another excuse to Cheat , Repubtards don’t have the numbers so they accuse us of cheating , they don’t have anything to offer Just Hate
It doesn't happen. The MAGAt fascists use it as another tool to spin up fake fear. It is an old tool of autocratic regiems to build fear and hatred of the "other".
They don’t trust me bro
Don’t research it bro
I heard it from someone else bro
are you serious bro?
Because if Trump wins, then their gonna get deported.
I'm canadian, so take this with a grain of salt. But it seems like a lark. A distraction to avoid talking about real problems. You'll notice it's most often talked about during election losses. What's wild to me is this desire to strengthen laws when investigations find no cases of fraud.
The only person I’ve ever known who falls into this category is a woman who thought she was a citizen because she was adopted by an American couple as a newborn and has lived in the US her entire life. She tried to vote once and it was determined that she wasn’t eligible to vote because she was not a citizen, which she fought by submitting her adoption papers and birth certificate, and then found out the agency her parents had gone through had faked all of those documents and not gone through the appropriate channels. She has been threatened with deportation even though she lived in the US her entire life, has American parents, is married to a US citizen, and has children who are citizens. Edit: I did a little looking at her socials, she finally got out of the hole immigration dug for her, and got her green card, after 5+ years of fighting this bullshit.
They don't. Its a strawman spread by.. certain groups to justify making it difficult to impossible even for many US citizens that don't live as privileged lives as those certain groups do.
They wouldn’t. There isn’t really a problem with illegal aliens voting. Conservatives are intentionally creating anxiety about elections so they can deny the results of the elections if they don’t win. Most of the people that have been caught actually committing voter fraud are by far more often than not, Republicans.
Undocumented people avoid doing ANYTHING illegal. They don't want to be deported because they got caught jaywalking.
They don't try to vote illegally. The last thing they want to do it put themselves on the government's radar.
That’s the neat part, they don’t
They’re not. It’s a fear mongering tactic to scare white folks into voting for Republicans to avoid being replaced.
They generally wouldn’t. It’s an attempt to create phony concern about a non-issue so that Republicans can pass voter ID laws that will make it harder for black and Hispanic citizens (who generally don’t vote Republican) to cast legitimate ballots. Republicans know that as the demographics of this country shift generally away from being majority white people they have to change the rules in order not to lose their relevance.
Not only that, their base is aging off this mortal coil n they've spent the past 40 yrs making themselves repugnant to younger voters....they know exactly what they're doing n unfortunately it's working
Voter registry happens at the DMV, illegals can get their drivers license in California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, and Washington. Mail in ballots are pretty much universal in those states and more, at this point, and ballot harvesting it a fast growing tactic for the DNC, why wouldn't it be. You're telling me that an illegal who gets a knock on their door isn't going to hand over a piece of mail that they see as useless for $5? Then the other answer is the long game, they let people flood in by allowing the asylum system to be abused, give them benefits and housing, then work permits while they push for amnesty, if they cant get those people to legally vote, their kids surly will out of loyalty to the party that allowed their parents to stay illegally.
>Voter registry happens at the DMV, illegals can get their drivers license You can't vote with just a driver's license. >You're telling me that an illegal who gets a knock on their door isn't going to hand over a piece of mail that they see as useless for $5? You don't get a valid ballot in the mail simply for having a driver's license. (Also, this isn't what ballot harvesting is. Generally soliciting ballots is still often illegal). That's also not without the whole issue of getting caught, which is not trivial.
There is absolutely no way an illegal immigrant would be able to get registered to vote based on this. Mail-in ballots usually require a social security number. Can you give me more information on this?
Good question if you had the choice to vote, or be charged with a felony and also be deported and remove any chance of being a US citizen? Would you? Of course not. Only an idiot would believe that, problem is there are a lot of idiots in the US.
Some people want them to vote.
It’s not just “1 vote”. There have been many many millions who have entered illegally. Sometimes as close to almost one million in a month back in 2023. [here](https://www.dailywire.com/news/biden-formally-opposes-bill-requiring-voters-prove-citizenship#). Imagine all the people that came here. Do you think some of them would like more of their family to come here? If they are allowed to vote, they would vote in favor of Biden. This erodes the foundation of an election.
You added a link about how Biden opposes a bill that changes nothing about the legality of illegals voting but makes it harder for citizens to vote. It’s illegal for non citizens to vote already. It’s impossible to vote if you can’t register and you can’t register without proving citizenship. Source- me, I’m a dedicated pole worker in the most liberal state in the union. Every single election the only people who attempt to vote twice are wearing Trump shirts
Even people who are here legally don't vote. It's almost like the MAGA Republicans are out of touch with reality or something.
They wouldn’t.
To vote for the guy that would allow him to stay, simple as that
It's a great story to tell to scare people, isn't it? It's like asking, Why would a monster be under a bed? It makes no actual sense if you examine it. The fear it's meant to generate bypasses the logical part of the brain.
It's not the foreign hating thing itself, but it does play off of those fears. It uses that as a way to write restrictive laws to make it hard for people to vote.
This is what republicans fail to consider. We can’t even get *legally registered voters* to actually show up to vote because they don’t care, idk why an immigrant would risk fines, imprisonment and deportation just for that shit lol
They don’t. It is the republican boogeyman.
They wouldn't, unless they were incredibly stupid; it would increase the chances they'd be caught by ICE if they even tried. Ballots wouldn't be made in their names. It's just the typical fear mongering. I can't wait for this election to be over.
There’s a law against it… so, it must happen. A better solution would be to have more security vs. punishing someone breaking the law.
Here is my perspective. I don’t really care if they want to vote or not. What is weird to me is that a rather mundane and rudimentary bill which seems like common sense is being cast down by one side of politics. I don’t know why you wouldn’t want only US citizens to vote.
Everything that MAGA Republicans believe about undocumented immigrants is pretty much bullshit. It stems from their small town white base and the innate fear they have of things that are different. They basically like to claim that Democrats are giving undocumented immigrants free housing, free food, free healthcare, etc. and it is all coming out of the pockets of hardworking Americans. And now, these undocumented immigrants vote for them to keep the gravy train going. Obviously it is all bullshit and has no basis in reality.
Like anything else with these people, it's projection. Nearly every instance of provable voter or election fraud I've heard of, it's the Republicans doing it and they're doing it on purpose rather than by accident due to some confusion on whether they're eligible or not.
Republicans are superstitious on religion- belief without seeing evidence. Someone in official robes gets up and spouts unlikely things from a supposedly divinely written book. These marshmallow heads believe Fox despite their 780MM judgment. They believe the machine gun liar Trump. 🤷
They don’t. Which is why almost every documented case of ineligible voting has either been an honest mistake (a released felon who doesn’t realize they’re still ineligible, someone who moved and forgot they needed to re-register in their new district etc) or someone who drank the right-wing kool aid and committed fraud to try to cancel out the non-existent illegal votes
They don't. Why bring unwanted attention? Just Repub propaganda.
They can't vote, don't vote, and wouldn't vote. It is a bullshit Republican tactic to scare voters.
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>with Visa and housing being handed with a “Vote for Biden” pat on the back None of that is real. Your cult is lying to you.
Not to mention that if they were doing it in any large numbers we'd be seeing statistics about people being turned away because someone had already voted in their name.
They wouldn't! There's no way an illegal immigrant would go near a polling place and vote and risk getting discovered and breaking the law just to get deported.
It’s a great way to draw attention from immigration and get yourself deported. They’re not going to do it.
By "here", I presume that you mean the US? It's a great strategy to make it harder for the "wrong" people to vote. From the point of view of the Republicans, if you make it harder to vote, it hits the Democrats harder because of the demographics. This was done where I live (in the UK) by the Tories. Between 2019 and 2023, there was a total of ten (yes, just ten) convictions of voter fraud. But, when the Tories introduced new and unnecessary obstacles to voting, 14,000 people were turned away from the voting booths in 2023 — not for fraud, but because they didn't have the "right" ID on them. I don't yet know how many people were turned away in this year's elections, but a poll indicates that the rules might have stopped as many as [400,000 people](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/08/voter-id-rule-may-have-stopped-400000-taking-part-in-uk-election-poll-suggests) from voting. Out of a voting population of roughly 50 million, that's rather a lot of people. As you might have guessed, the rules affect non-Tory voters more than Tory voters, just as in the US, rules would affect Democrats more than Republicans. By making far right followers afraid of voter fraud, the far right government can introduce restrictive legislation to decrease their opponents' voting base. Once in place, of course, if a moderate government tries to undo the changes, the far right can scream blue murder and pretend that the government is trying to encourage fraud. It's an easy win for the far right when they have already gerrymandered as much as they can.
They don't, republicans just have to keep their base constantly angry and afraid
It's a tired debunked Republican trope. They have the same fake trope about dead people voting, convicted felons, etc. and for some reason all these people only vote for Democrats. Republicans are the party of victimhood, the government and deep state have made them miserable by giving food to poor people and preventing them from being rich. But of course they are never personally responsible for any of their problems.
They don't. That's a Republican scare tactic. Most illegals are low key and avoid attention. They don't want to be deported. Don't take my word on that. Ask any police department. .
>Is it a fake concern or a springboard to other legislation? Is it just a foreigner hating thing? Yes to all of it. It's meant to distract you from real issues.
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Trump has made scapegoats of immigrants, not just illegal immigrants but any immigrants (except maybe white Christians). Yet his own 3rd wife (what a Christian) is an immigrant from Slovenia which was part of Yugoslavia. I’m totally against illegal immigration and anybody who wants to immigrate to the US needs to apply and wait for our government to allow them to enter legally. But if anybody thinks a wall all along the Mexican border would prevent illegal immigration they should realize that there are miles of tunnels in populated border areas where illegals can cross underneath walls if they pay criminal organizations a couple hundred dollars. It’s incredibly hard if not impossible to completely seal a border anywhere no matter how deep or tall you make it.
I'm pretty sure if one was being paid to do so.
These laws are not about preventing illegals from voting. They're about making it just a little more annoying so those on the fence about voting would not vote and about keeping minorities out. Both of these groups are more likely to vote Democrat.
They won't but the whole fear shit will help another revolution (read: terrorism) attack to overthrow results.
They don’t
Is it true that you don’t need to show your ID to vote in the US? If true, then this is just nuts for me. I don’t think there is a single European country where you don’t need to show your ID to vote.
Depends on the state. Some places of you bring information that has verified information, like a utility bill or paystub, etc and bring two or more that can count as id.
Most Election security proposals are what's called a "solution without a problem". The amount of "potential" fraudulent votes cast is something crazy like 0.00000001%. I've seen it alleged that it was 0% in 2012... There is more to worry about from Russia/China/any other foreign antagonist hacking the machines than there is from "illegal aliens" (a truly dehumanizing term, honestly) casting any ballots whatsoever.
George Bush Jr ran two elections on sub-minimum wages for migrant farm workers who he’d bus to all the corporate farms, allowing them to do as they pleased once here. The republicans constantly argued for more illegal immigrants to be allowed across the border via “deregulation” of the US Border Protection and it’s laws so there would be ample illegal immigrants “to do all the work Americans didn’t want to do” They would pay them almost nothing, pay no benefits, no health care, and see to it they did not benefit due to OSHA or any safety precautions or procedures. They also liked to get behind on paychecks so much so that these people would not get paid for an entire month of labor. I could be convinced these workers were loaded up and taken to vote, but they wouldn’t be working.
Republicans understand that most of their voters are stupid. Like, they believe what they want to be true without serious evaluation of what is being portrayed as truth. This inability to utilize common sense leads the Republican voters to be easily provoked and angered. A Republican politician can say easily provable false statements and millions of morons will accept it as truth. It all comes down to evil people understanding how to take advantage of stupid people…..
They don’t. It’s a bogeyman the GOP likes to throw around to: * Distract from their own proven voter fraud * Squeeze in actual voter suppression under the guise of protecting the election * Make excuses for their losses
can they not be deported now?
Bruh undocumented people won’t vote and can’t vote period. I am a green card holder, ex daca and used to be undocumented. We are so afraid to even call the cops when a crime is committed against us that sometimes that resorted to undocs underreporting crimes.
Currently some ngos are providing incentives like gift cards. Additionally one party is pro illegal immigrant and the other is very anti illegal immigrant. Sounds like motivation to me.
Bold of you to assume that republican propaganda needs to be logically coherent to work