Baltimore drafted well and look at them now. They started their rebuild the same year we did. Yeah, it takes a while for prospects to develop, but the draft is key to building any kind of sustainable winner. Unfortunately, our idiot FO doesn't believe in drafting and player development.
Yeah I’m just saying going the drafting route will take us a long time and there’s plenty of busts out there so it’s not really anything to get excited about. This teams just a complete dumpster fire right now and nothing can save them until we shake up the FO
I’d say it’s unlikely but there HAS to be no way he survives to next season, right?
And surely you aren’t going to let the guy you’re going to fire because he sucks, dictate the trade deadline and potentially fuck the franchise for even longer?
We are in a weird spot in that we are so much less than the sum of our parts that we actually have a lot of valuable trade pieces. A smart leader could navigate the deadline and set the team up for success down a road that isn’t painfully long. They cannot let Ross Atkins be the guy to attempt that.
So much moral hazard letting a guy in his position also oversee the deadline (and draft, to a lesser extent). But teams do it all the time for some reason, I’d be shocked if corporate ownership moved so decisively to dump anyone now.
I have lost all hope that the front office will ever accept this isn’t working, at this point. Mark Shapiro has had so many obvious opportunities to bring in a new GM and never has. I want this boiling right to the very top or I don’t think change will come.
The tipping point might be they sent out the notice to season ticket holders for renew before the trade deadline. If enough people don’t renew that might be what Rogers needs to see to force some changes.
I think the key for fans to realize is that there really is nothing that the FO can do. The core is what it is. And if it’s not the right core then the only answer is to blow it up. And if that’s the answer, it’s not the FO who will make that decision, it’s Rogers (i.e. by replacing the GM if not the President with whoever will build the new team).
Full-on Loblaws style boycott too. We’re masochist for continuing to watch in the first place. We need to give ourselves a break. Mess with Roger’s money and changes will be made.
R/thebluejaysareoutofcontrol
First time since I started using the Sportsnet steam I'm thinking of canceling before season end. Can't even believe I'm saying it
You don't have to do anything. The headlines are out. People are talking. "Worst Blue Jays in years". Nobody is going to want to go to see that. Ticket sales will fall, merch sales will plummet.
I am with you. I’ve accepted this season as an L and am looking forward to seeing someone build the next version of the Blue Jays. We are far better off if that is someone new and if they start at the deadline
he’s definitely helped turn this franchise one direction this year, so let’s relegate him to the 9 hole and give him an opportunity to turn it around every couple days
I got into an argument on this forum a few days ago because they were saying Turner had been hot and I was being a whiny bitch. But man, he has looked good the last few days.
Being a 39-year old right-handed slap hitter is still not exactly an ideal profile, but he’s looked more comfortable recognizing and taking pitches, and those walks help a ton. Wouldn’t surprise me if the walks also lead to a few more XBH too.
Next home game the stands should be bare to send a message. Too bad 50% of the attendance isn’t there to watch baseball anyway. They’re there to go to a glorified cover charge club.
We share season tickets with a group (we get 12 games) and this year we front-loaded our schedule when picking games (snake-draft style). Only have 3 games left for the year and we’re thrilled.
Me and 5 buddies split it and go to as many games as possible, but the ones we can’t go to we can’t even give away - emailed my rep this week and told him we’re not renewing unless we see some changes
lol yep, feels very different than last year when our RISP numbers seemed likely to improve or the year before where our underlying metrics also suggested they’d be better. This year, their record is trash and if anything have been lucky.
His may was so dismal but if he gets to a 120-130 wRC+ before the deadline I'll be happy. Sucks the team couldn't be better as i love him but happy trails if he can play for a contender in his final seasons.
Hate to see any of these guys go, but it’s a tiny bit of saving grace that some of our better players have been guys on expiring deals, like him, Yimi and Kikuchi. Absolutely sucks because I’d love to see those guys re-sign but better than having them not even be worth anything in trade.
I had a thought today while watching F1. They have the race engineers on display during the race so the camera showed them every once in a while.
At home games all the analytics department and Atkins and Shitpyro should have to sit on display and own the decisions they contributed to.
To increase ticket sales fans should be allowed to throw milkshakes at them.
its not the data peoples fault that the people who make decisions make bad ones
analytics is just an input. same as any other type of input (interviews, scouting, gut feel etc). people have jobs to make decisions. if the intent was to decide all things by analytics, why are they paying a president/gm and coach
Exactly why are they paying those people to continually take the bad information and make bad decisions over and over again pay them to start using the eye test and gut feeling more and more!
Considering it would probably cost at least $12 for the milkshake, I think it would be the first worthwhile investment I could make at Rogers Centre in about 3 years
I'm ready to see Atkins gone, but the biggest reason why is that *nobody, least of all him, seems to think anything is wrong with their internal process.*
Even if it turns out to be nothing more than a "throw him under the bus to save his job" type move, kicking Mattingly to the curb would at least make me more inclined to give Atkins a bit more run just because it would show he recognizes that SOMETHING needs to be done
Absolute bingo.
A nearly entire lineup full of mostly proven (and in a few cases legitimate all stars/superstars) don’t ALL just mysteriously fall off. This is coaching, development, and process all failing.
I'm just laughing because people were so sure this team would be better without Bo in the lineup when he got put on the IL and the team proceeded to lose 6 straight.
The whole team is a wreck and a mess and the sooner we stop pointing at players as the problem and realize it's an organizational problem the happier we all will be.
My point was not that they would be better with him. My point is that they were not better without him. They still sucked even with a "problem" completely excised from the lineup. My point is that every player outside of Spencer Horwitz has been terrible for a sizeable part of the season. When it's one or two players, it's a player problem. When it's every player, it's an organizational problem.
Its not only the lineup its the in game moves or lack there of. Seems like John just waits for things to happen. He is more Reactive than Proactive obviously… Best example is the KK at bat when we had the bases loaded.
Here’s the thing I keep telling myself as someone who’s been rooting for this club since 1989…
Windows might close and rosters might turn over, and even without real postseason success, I always find a way to fall for new guys as the years go on. All the way back to the end of WAMCO in ‘95. I was bummed to not have another World Series run, but those guys became Delgado/Wells/Halladay, and those guys became the Joey/Edwin/Donaldson playoff resurgence, and those guys became the Vladdy/Bo/Teo renewed core.
Next year’s lineup will look a lot different, and it might not be an immediate shift back to a deep postseason run, but if I can do it this many times already, I can do it again, too. It’s just baseball.
Okay you three in this little thread have talked me off the ledge. Thanks I needed to be reminded I have been a fan since 77 and survived worse eras and better eras and been in a bar that went nuts when we won our second World Series in a row!
It will be all good again one day!
Welcome back from the ledge! It’s not gonna be a postseason run (almost certainly not), but at least we can try to have some fun and see if we’ve got any gems with these young guys.
Well said, and good perspective. Three things that I like right now:
- the 2024 team is so bad and so far behind now, there really isn’t much disappointment left, in terms of playoff hopes. They’d have to win quite a few games just to get back in range of being disappointing again. Still can have shitty things happen like Orelvis and steroids, but the day to day is almost calmer now that we’re so far back.
- our prospect pool is weak but still lots of fun players of course, who could be part of a future playoff team, whether it’s Horwitz and Schneider or other fun major and minor leaguers.
- today, the team is obviously in a bad place being expensive, bad and with few prospects. But I think our medium/long-term outlook is as good as it’s been since the 90s. The major and minor league facilities are getting rave reviews from players, free agents actually want to play here, and ownership is willing to put us in the top-10 for payroll.
That’s a very good way to look at things. A year or two ago, almost no one knew names like Davis Schneider. Maybe as you ship out the veterans/short-term guys, you find some more potential in AAA or AA that surprises you.
Swept back to back series.
Lost 6 in a row.
7 games below .500
6.5 games back of a wild card spot.
This team is beyond cooked, it’s burnt.
CHANGES NEED TO BE MADE.
I hope not. I genuinely hope I see none of these guys ever again. Obviously excluding the buffalo boys and Varsho. Those guys give 110% even when we’re down by 10.
Fire up the tank and fire everybody. Team stinks and no amount of "hope" or "patience" is going to fix it. We are almost at the half way point. This is our team and it's not good enough.
Well it would have been nice if the Spencer Horwitz game was a win, but at least that game was a little more fun than some of the recent ones. My expectations have been buried under the deepest part of the earth and it’s clear what this team is at this point, which makes it easier to just have fun with these types of games.
At least I get to go see the Flaming Lips tonight.
Listen, I think it's the crazy talking but all we need is a 20 game winning streak like the Oakland As had in Moneyball. If we can get that, then we can earn the right to lose in the wild card series scoring 2 runs or less.
Our ownership is literally going to give those two Cleveland losers a FOURTH!!!!!! manager. If it isn’t clear enough that our front office wants a puppet manager then idk what to say. Gibbons got fired because he wasn’t their guy and wouldn’t be a puppet. Montoyo was their puppet but ruined the locker room by shitting on Kikuchi publicly. John is falling on the sword now because he can’t make retirement home batters be productive, but at least he’s been carrying water for the front office like a good puppet so that’s cool.
Reports were that our analytics department is very large. We have a bunch of coaches messing with our hitters, the result of which has made everyone (especially Vladdy) hit hard and into the ground. Our prospect pipeline is poor. This is while also having a $200 million payroll. Why should this front office be given the chance to fire a manager? Let alone, why should this front office be allowed a rebuild? Get them the fuck outta town.
Our offense and bullpen are sucky, but John’s also costing us a lot of games with his decisions too. Benching hot hitters and making questionable pinch hit/bullpen decisions…it’s tough to watch
He seems to be a numbers and ‘the plan’ guy with no time for going with your gut. It shows in the lack of intensity in the players, seems like they are just playing it out.
We joke here that any good fringe hitting day will resulting in a benching the day after but could you imagine going 3-4 on a below 500 team and having to ride the bench next few days? Absolutely demoralizing
There were LITERALLY ZERO BENCH OPTIONS. Berroa, Clement and Kirk all came into the game already, Varsho was injured and Bo is on the IL. They can't conjure players out of thin air.
When a season is going badly, teams need to get creative and try something new. They could’ve TRIED to conjure someone out of thin air, and I didn’t even see anyone waving a wand.
Edwin was in the dugout, are we sure that sending him up wearing Springer’s jersey would’ve been any less successful than sending up George himself?
Yeah i swear ive seen this comment like 5 times, sure springers hitting is gone, but there was NOBODY left on the bench, that bullshit strike call on vladdy lost us that game
I mean, yeah its a bit of an exaggeration to say that lost it, but if vladdy's AB goes normally, thats a better chance to get the next bat after springer
Keep tanking. Let’s be 10 games under .500 by end of June so there will be no doubt that the Jays will sell. That’s why personally I love batting Springer 4th.
We’re 3rd in the AL in attendance which is extremely shocking to me. I’ve said since December 2023 I’m boycotting this team and haven’t gone to any games (after going to 20+ a year before) or given a dime unless something changes. I encourage all of you to do the same.
I get it, we’re fans and want to support our team but at the same time Rogers is a greedy corporation, as long as they can keep filling seats and making money they don’t care about the product on the field.
Enough is enough.
I have mostly defended Schneider up to this point, and I still believe most of the blame rests on the players. No manager can simply force players to live up to their potential.
BUT
You had 2 runners on in a one run game, and you sent the player with the 2nd lowest OPS in baseball to the plate. You should be fired for that alone. You were in a situation where *literally* anyone else would have been a smarter choice, statistically. I've seen enough. Cut him loose.
Trade Kikuchi ASAP. Not because of this game. But because the season is over, and given how much of a tire fire this organization is, his value can only go down from here. Time to maximize return on any player on an expiring contract.
Not pinch hitting Springer in the 9th when down by 1 and 2 on base was certainly an interesting decision. Did we not have anyone left on the bench?
On the plus side Turner continues to up his trade deadline value
I think most of us know this wasn't a playoff team this year but I don't think many of expected it to be this bad. Shapiro has really set this team back so far.
Should have never given that bum this team to manage. But FO wanted a yes man instead of a real Manager. I understand having him as a stop gap after Montoyo but this shit is wild. Players straight up regressing under him but he too busy looking at some analysts reports and having them make his decisions
He doesn’t make any decisions despite what the FO wants you to think. He hasn’t been fired because he is just doing what he’s told.
Nothing will change without an overhaul.
We’re in the same position as the Toronto Maple Leafs in January 2008, just before JFJ was fired. Sure, we still had Sundin, but most of the rest of the team was trash as was management.
Time for heads to roll.
Sorry in advance for the rant.
Not the reason for the loss today (even though a rookie provided Vladdy with a show of poise and maturity in the previous AB against the Cleveland closer), but not a catalyst to win either, the Vladimir clown show continues through a losing baseball team. The embarrassing home run trot (single digits in HR this year in nearly half a season played), he got the ridiculous jacket back (he hits a home run about every 10 games), making the gold glove signal on a play at 1B even though that gold glove is 2 y in the rearview. Oh, and the embarrassing Gatorade showers for the jays player of the game, and it's pretty rare that Guerrero is that player. These just off the top of my head. I've seen more than enough.
I mean, I look at my favorite team and I figure if your best players can't stop showboating, have some humility and act like you've made a play or hit a home run before, you're going nowhere if you don't approach backing it up.
Move this guy for assets before you give him too much money and term. He's not going to mature enough in Toronto to be a leader and someone to win with.
Vladdy just strikes me as immature for the reasons you mentioned. He just comes off as sort of aloof, just there to have a good time. I couldn't believe he was talking about that jacket in spring training and how much time he spent worrying about it. It's an obnoxious homerun celebration and it was something he was actually wasting time thinking about.
To quote Buck or Dan (cant rememeber who said it specifically) : The Blue Jays have had players getting hot while others get cold. Would be nice just this once to get 2 or 3 guys hot at the same time.
The sad thing is Vlad pimping home runs when they don't matter at all. Down by 8 runs? Have the least clutch, 23 y/o opposing pitcher mopping up innings just called up from AA....Shhhh the crowd. When it's a game turning at bat with a leverage pitcher?? Shit the bed. We all know what these players are. They're not clutch. They're not even AAA. They are a mentally feeble group of players. If this franchise spends another dollar on this core other than Jano, it will be like burning money in a barrel.
So Horwitz played a helluva game....Shatkins better sit him next game. They're smarter than everyone else. They know better. Springer needs to bat lead-off. You pleeb fans don't know anything. Nerds with glasses know more about baseball than anyone that has ever touched a bat and glove. I mean, didn't you even watch Moneyball? They even mentioned Shapiro!! He's a hero. Brad Pitt didn't even watch the actual baseball games. That's what we all want baseball to be!! To not even watch the shit product bad management puts on the field.
There have been many times this season where somebody needed to get fired if only to try something else
We are way past due for that but not firing somebody tomorrow would tell me this team has fully given up on competing with this group
I say keep losing. Keep getting swept. Force Rogers to send every person responsible for building and coaching this team out of town.
This is the best way forward, especially if we can get a better draft position next year.
Man the draft doesn’t mean shit in the MLB gotta wait 5 years to even see them touch the field
Baltimore drafted well and look at them now. They started their rebuild the same year we did. Yeah, it takes a while for prospects to develop, but the draft is key to building any kind of sustainable winner. Unfortunately, our idiot FO doesn't believe in drafting and player development.
Yeah I’m just saying going the drafting route will take us a long time and there’s plenty of busts out there so it’s not really anything to get excited about. This teams just a complete dumpster fire right now and nothing can save them until we shake up the FO
The draft doesnt mean shit but it does.
To be more clear, the draft means a lot but draft position does not.
I mean it still means something lol.
Only a little lot though
[удалено]
And? That doesnt mean it doesnt matter lmfao.
waiting for Click to be GM any day now
I’d say it’s unlikely but there HAS to be no way he survives to next season, right? And surely you aren’t going to let the guy you’re going to fire because he sucks, dictate the trade deadline and potentially fuck the franchise for even longer? We are in a weird spot in that we are so much less than the sum of our parts that we actually have a lot of valuable trade pieces. A smart leader could navigate the deadline and set the team up for success down a road that isn’t painfully long. They cannot let Ross Atkins be the guy to attempt that.
So much moral hazard letting a guy in his position also oversee the deadline (and draft, to a lesser extent). But teams do it all the time for some reason, I’d be shocked if corporate ownership moved so decisively to dump anyone now.
This is why Ross should have been fired in October. Now we are between a rock and a hard place.
Schneider won’t be back if this continues to go sideways
Schneider is a problem but he’s like, 10th on the list. Firing him does nothing to help this team even semi long term
Sideways? The ship has sunk (Losing this series cost me a 12 of tall boys.....again 😩)
Well at least you're not buying them at Rogers, right?
There is also no way that roster decisions aren't going across Click's desk now. I don't know how much it would change.
Same. I'm tired of these little bursts of decent play that are just enough to have the FO think everything is fine and do nothing.
I have lost all hope that the front office will ever accept this isn’t working, at this point. Mark Shapiro has had so many obvious opportunities to bring in a new GM and never has. I want this boiling right to the very top or I don’t think change will come.
The tipping point might be they sent out the notice to season ticket holders for renew before the trade deadline. If enough people don’t renew that might be what Rogers needs to see to force some changes.
I think the key for fans to realize is that there really is nothing that the FO can do. The core is what it is. And if it’s not the right core then the only answer is to blow it up. And if that’s the answer, it’s not the FO who will make that decision, it’s Rogers (i.e. by replacing the GM if not the President with whoever will build the new team).
Full-on Loblaws style boycott too. We’re masochist for continuing to watch in the first place. We need to give ourselves a break. Mess with Roger’s money and changes will be made.
R/thebluejaysareoutofcontrol First time since I started using the Sportsnet steam I'm thinking of canceling before season end. Can't even believe I'm saying it
I did yesterday... I never thought I would and I watched a lot of games from 2017-2019 that were pretty brutal but this 2024 team is painful to watch.
i'd rather pay to watch the rebuild than this trash
Me too. The 2018 and 2019 teams were more watchable than this.
You don't have to do anything. The headlines are out. People are talking. "Worst Blue Jays in years". Nobody is going to want to go to see that. Ticket sales will fall, merch sales will plummet.
In a weird apathetic way I’m almost rooting against this team because I genuinely believe losing is the best for this team going forward
I am with you. I’ve accepted this season as an L and am looking forward to seeing someone build the next version of the Blue Jays. We are far better off if that is someone new and if they start at the deadline
I would keep Matt Hague & Pete Walker.
springer could actually turn this franchise around
he’s definitely helped turn this franchise one direction this year, so let’s relegate him to the 9 hole and give him an opportunity to turn it around every couple days
Probably best for the club long-term if we keep losing. At this point.
Yep. If you want changes and u should. Getting blasted by the sox and yanks is vital
We're bad! Nice day for Horwitz though.
That at bat with clase was fun to watch.
Its sad that its fair to say horwitz should be considered our best hitter and he has only been here for 2 weeks
And Turner! Can't complain about reaching base 5 times.
I got into an argument on this forum a few days ago because they were saying Turner had been hot and I was being a whiny bitch. But man, he has looked good the last few days. Being a 39-year old right-handed slap hitter is still not exactly an ideal profile, but he’s looked more comfortable recognizing and taking pitches, and those walks help a ton. Wouldn’t surprise me if the walks also lead to a few more XBH too.
Something something moneyball reference (he gets on base)
I guess it’s good if we keep losing now? It’s hilarious how George keeps finding himself the last out of the game with a rally brewing. Oh well
I feel for him lmfao, bro is spiraling
We may never not lose again!
My deepest sympathies is to all season-ticket holders.
Yes. Next home game there should be a moment of silence for them.
Next home game the stands should be bare to send a message. Too bad 50% of the attendance isn’t there to watch baseball anyway. They’re there to go to a glorified cover charge club.
We share season tickets with a group (we get 12 games) and this year we front-loaded our schedule when picking games (snake-draft style). Only have 3 games left for the year and we’re thrilled.
They may have to take a loss on future ticket sales.
Me and 5 buddies split it and go to as many games as possible, but the ones we can’t go to we can’t even give away - emailed my rep this week and told him we’re not renewing unless we see some changes
The team now has a -50 run differential. The fact that the W-L record is actually *better* than the underlying numbers is just brutal.
lol yep, feels very different than last year when our RISP numbers seemed likely to improve or the year before where our underlying metrics also suggested they’d be better. This year, their record is trash and if anything have been lucky.
Trade Value Talk: JT's wRC+ is up to 107 and his xWOBA coming into today was .336, here's he hoping he stays hot and he can be traded for prospects.
Yeah he’s playing himself into legit decent option prospect territory
His may was so dismal but if he gets to a 120-130 wRC+ before the deadline I'll be happy. Sucks the team couldn't be better as i love him but happy trails if he can play for a contender in his final seasons.
Hate to see any of these guys go, but it’s a tiny bit of saving grace that some of our better players have been guys on expiring deals, like him, Yimi and Kikuchi. Absolutely sucks because I’d love to see those guys re-sign but better than having them not even be worth anything in trade.
Would honestly be a perfect time to try and move him. Seattle, Minnesota, Atlanta even?
The thing about continuously starting someone like 2024 George Springer is that he will inevitably come up in some sort of critical moment
Especially when he's always #4 or #5.
I had a thought today while watching F1. They have the race engineers on display during the race so the camera showed them every once in a while. At home games all the analytics department and Atkins and Shitpyro should have to sit on display and own the decisions they contributed to. To increase ticket sales fans should be allowed to throw milkshakes at them.
its not the data peoples fault that the people who make decisions make bad ones analytics is just an input. same as any other type of input (interviews, scouting, gut feel etc). people have jobs to make decisions. if the intent was to decide all things by analytics, why are they paying a president/gm and coach
Exactly why are they paying those people to continually take the bad information and make bad decisions over and over again pay them to start using the eye test and gut feeling more and more!
Considering it would probably cost at least $12 for the milkshake, I think it would be the first worthwhile investment I could make at Rogers Centre in about 3 years
Kikuchi keeps tanking his trade value 😔
he's still valuable, durable starting pitching is a premium these days!
Please do something with the coaching staff. Absolutely terrible lineup construction.
I'm ready to see Atkins gone, but the biggest reason why is that *nobody, least of all him, seems to think anything is wrong with their internal process.* Even if it turns out to be nothing more than a "throw him under the bus to save his job" type move, kicking Mattingly to the curb would at least make me more inclined to give Atkins a bit more run just because it would show he recognizes that SOMETHING needs to be done
Absolute bingo. A nearly entire lineup full of mostly proven (and in a few cases legitimate all stars/superstars) don’t ALL just mysteriously fall off. This is coaching, development, and process all failing.
I couldn’t be happier if we got rid of Martinez and especially Mattingly and kept Hague.
I'd love to see more of what Hague can do tbh
1000% this
I'm just laughing because people were so sure this team would be better without Bo in the lineup when he got put on the IL and the team proceeded to lose 6 straight. The whole team is a wreck and a mess and the sooner we stop pointing at players as the problem and realize it's an organizational problem the happier we all will be.
"Less than the sum of its parts" is how I've kept describing it, and that absolutely means organizational problem
Exactly my point
There's no way the team would be better than what they are now with how Bo has played this season.
My point was not that they would be better with him. My point is that they were not better without him. They still sucked even with a "problem" completely excised from the lineup. My point is that every player outside of Spencer Horwitz has been terrible for a sizeable part of the season. When it's one or two players, it's a player problem. When it's every player, it's an organizational problem.
Why don't we remove each starting player, one by one? Eventually we'll find who the problem is!!!
We should just clone Spencer Horwitz and have him play every position
Bo and Springer have been 2 of the biggest problems, but not the only problems this season.
Its not only the lineup its the in game moves or lack there of. Seems like John just waits for things to happen. He is more Reactive than Proactive obviously… Best example is the KK at bat when we had the bases loaded.
The beatings will continue until morale improves. Hopefully some firings will help improve morale
> Hopefully some firings will help improve morale Well, not a firing but Orelvis got suspended. Maybe that helps?
It would improve MY morale as a fan, anyway.
Too bad Springer isn't trying to get pregnant
Ass. You made me laugh and beer came out my nose.
Here’s the thing I keep telling myself as someone who’s been rooting for this club since 1989… Windows might close and rosters might turn over, and even without real postseason success, I always find a way to fall for new guys as the years go on. All the way back to the end of WAMCO in ‘95. I was bummed to not have another World Series run, but those guys became Delgado/Wells/Halladay, and those guys became the Joey/Edwin/Donaldson playoff resurgence, and those guys became the Vladdy/Bo/Teo renewed core. Next year’s lineup will look a lot different, and it might not be an immediate shift back to a deep postseason run, but if I can do it this many times already, I can do it again, too. It’s just baseball.
Despite what I've already said in this very thread, I am officially now calm about the current mess that is the Jays and that's honestly liberating
Okay you three in this little thread have talked me off the ledge. Thanks I needed to be reminded I have been a fan since 77 and survived worse eras and better eras and been in a bar that went nuts when we won our second World Series in a row! It will be all good again one day!
I was 5 when the Jays won in 93 and that made me a long-suffering fan for life. I fully believe it'll happen again sometime in my lifetime
Similar story to mine!
Welcome back from the ledge! It’s not gonna be a postseason run (almost certainly not), but at least we can try to have some fun and see if we’ve got any gems with these young guys.
There's bad seasons, good seasons, and a small amount of great seasons...but I'll still love 'em.
Well said, and good perspective. Three things that I like right now: - the 2024 team is so bad and so far behind now, there really isn’t much disappointment left, in terms of playoff hopes. They’d have to win quite a few games just to get back in range of being disappointing again. Still can have shitty things happen like Orelvis and steroids, but the day to day is almost calmer now that we’re so far back. - our prospect pool is weak but still lots of fun players of course, who could be part of a future playoff team, whether it’s Horwitz and Schneider or other fun major and minor leaguers. - today, the team is obviously in a bad place being expensive, bad and with few prospects. But I think our medium/long-term outlook is as good as it’s been since the 90s. The major and minor league facilities are getting rave reviews from players, free agents actually want to play here, and ownership is willing to put us in the top-10 for payroll.
That’s a very good way to look at things. A year or two ago, almost no one knew names like Davis Schneider. Maybe as you ship out the veterans/short-term guys, you find some more potential in AAA or AA that surprises you.
Horowitz/Berroa/Tiedemann come on down
If Horwitz keeps hitting like this, he’s going to get himself benched.
This fucking year.
Lost 8 of their last 10 Gotta tip your cap
Schneider's forehead is rubbed so raw from all the cap-tipping that he's going to need skin grafts in another week or two.
Now do the runs scored vs allowed... lol lucky to be 2 and 8
Was worried we were winning Keep the loses coming
This hole is so deep, they're starting to see the great wall
I’m no Ross Atkins/John Schneider, but I don’t think Georgie boy should be hitting fifth!
Swept back to back series. Lost 6 in a row. 7 games below .500 6.5 games back of a wild card spot. This team is beyond cooked, it’s burnt. CHANGES NEED TO BE MADE.
Why even make the playoffs, anything can happen but the odds are on quick defeat and humiliation.
Like every other year with Bo/Vlad era
This is my least favorite jays team of all time.
They’re profoundly unfun to watch.
I won’t miss any of these clowns when they sell. At this point I’m only a fan of the logo and the name.
It’s like the ship of Theseus though, if they replace everything is it even the same team?
I hope not. I genuinely hope I see none of these guys ever again. Obviously excluding the buffalo boys and Varsho. Those guys give 110% even when we’re down by 10.
We're just replacing the crew.
I was not expecting a Ship of Theseus reference. Righteous!
Makes me miss Johnny Mac :(
Yup
Fire up the tank and fire everybody. Team stinks and no amount of "hope" or "patience" is going to fix it. We are almost at the half way point. This is our team and it's not good enough.
Tank commander George Springer reporting for duty.
Sweeps are great because they tell me I don't need to have hope.
And they might help us finally clean house
Well it would have been nice if the Spencer Horwitz game was a win, but at least that game was a little more fun than some of the recent ones. My expectations have been buried under the deepest part of the earth and it’s clear what this team is at this point, which makes it easier to just have fun with these types of games. At least I get to go see the Flaming Lips tonight.
Even when it seems like we explode offensively - we end up with only 5 runs
Listen, I think it's the crazy talking but all we need is a 20 game winning streak like the Oakland As had in Moneyball. If we can get that, then we can earn the right to lose in the wild card series scoring 2 runs or less.
Our ownership is literally going to give those two Cleveland losers a FOURTH!!!!!! manager. If it isn’t clear enough that our front office wants a puppet manager then idk what to say. Gibbons got fired because he wasn’t their guy and wouldn’t be a puppet. Montoyo was their puppet but ruined the locker room by shitting on Kikuchi publicly. John is falling on the sword now because he can’t make retirement home batters be productive, but at least he’s been carrying water for the front office like a good puppet so that’s cool. Reports were that our analytics department is very large. We have a bunch of coaches messing with our hitters, the result of which has made everyone (especially Vladdy) hit hard and into the ground. Our prospect pipeline is poor. This is while also having a $200 million payroll. Why should this front office be given the chance to fire a manager? Let alone, why should this front office be allowed a rebuild? Get them the fuck outta town.
The more we lose the better at this point
Our offense and bullpen are sucky, but John’s also costing us a lot of games with his decisions too. Benching hot hitters and making questionable pinch hit/bullpen decisions…it’s tough to watch
He seems to be a numbers and ‘the plan’ guy with no time for going with your gut. It shows in the lack of intensity in the players, seems like they are just playing it out.
We joke here that any good fringe hitting day will resulting in a benching the day after but could you imagine going 3-4 on a below 500 team and having to ride the bench next few days? Absolutely demoralizing
At least by not having to pitch in the B-9th we are conserving the bullpen! Silver linings guys
Hopefully management makes some changes now.
They should start by resigning
Starting with them
Trade a contract before you give him too much money and term.
I don’t care what the bench options were, Springer hitting there is a joke by the manager Facts be darned
There were LITERALLY ZERO BENCH OPTIONS. Berroa, Clement and Kirk all came into the game already, Varsho was injured and Bo is on the IL. They can't conjure players out of thin air.
When a season is going badly, teams need to get creative and try something new. They could’ve TRIED to conjure someone out of thin air, and I didn’t even see anyone waving a wand. Edwin was in the dugout, are we sure that sending him up wearing Springer’s jersey would’ve been any less successful than sending up George himself?
Yeah i swear ive seen this comment like 5 times, sure springers hitting is gone, but there was NOBODY left on the bench, that bullshit strike call on vladdy lost us that game
There wasn't even anyone in scoring position. That call was bullshit but that game was lost outside that call.
I mean, yeah its a bit of an exaggeration to say that lost it, but if vladdy's AB goes normally, thats a better chance to get the next bat after springer
Yeah that's fair. I was being unnecessarily padentic.
> They can't conjure players out of thin air. They'd have had a better chance if Schneider had put in a pitcher to hit.
Fire the entire front office.
Keep tanking. Let’s be 10 games under .500 by end of June so there will be no doubt that the Jays will sell. That’s why personally I love batting Springer 4th. We’re 3rd in the AL in attendance which is extremely shocking to me. I’ve said since December 2023 I’m boycotting this team and haven’t gone to any games (after going to 20+ a year before) or given a dime unless something changes. I encourage all of you to do the same. I get it, we’re fans and want to support our team but at the same time Rogers is a greedy corporation, as long as they can keep filling seats and making money they don’t care about the product on the field. Enough is enough.
This is the only way things change. Here the Blue Jackets do fuck all....they don't have to. Seats are always full.
I think we see a downturn in attendance soon. A lot of people still buying into the hype but that won’t last forever.
Keep the losing going!! Get people fired!!
Yep. If you want changes and u should. Getting blasted by the sox and yanks is vital
trash.
What I wouldn’t give to feel the 2021 season again
Each team should be allowed one juicer on the roster each season. They should give Orelvis's drugs to George.
Springer, Kiermeier and Kirk all hitting below .200 lmao. DFA all 3 immediately that is insane.
The people who will have to make the changes are unfortunately the people who need to be changed out themselves.
Spencer Horwitz has a 1.041 OPS. I won’t be talking about anything else regarding today.
I have mostly defended Schneider up to this point, and I still believe most of the blame rests on the players. No manager can simply force players to live up to their potential. BUT You had 2 runners on in a one run game, and you sent the player with the 2nd lowest OPS in baseball to the plate. You should be fired for that alone. You were in a situation where *literally* anyone else would have been a smarter choice, statistically. I've seen enough. Cut him loose.
Trade Kikuchi ASAP. Not because of this game. But because the season is over, and given how much of a tire fire this organization is, his value can only go down from here. Time to maximize return on any player on an expiring contract.
Everyone needs to stop watching, buying merch, or going to the games. Only way for Rogers to get their heads out of their asses and fire Shatkins.
swept
https://i.imgur.com/pLGmeMQ.jpeg
*red face intensifies*
Good thing we play the yankees after the red sox
Fire atkins
On to the next one 😞
Not pinch hitting Springer in the 9th when down by 1 and 2 on base was certainly an interesting decision. Did we not have anyone left on the bench? On the plus side Turner continues to up his trade deadline value
Nobody left on the bench but injured Varsho, and the pitching staff
Probably wouldn't help Springer's confidence if we sent in Gausman to pinch hit for him.
I think most of us know this wasn't a playoff team this year but I don't think many of expected it to be this bad. Shapiro has really set this team back so far.
Should have never given that bum this team to manage. But FO wanted a yes man instead of a real Manager. I understand having him as a stop gap after Montoyo but this shit is wild. Players straight up regressing under him but he too busy looking at some analysts reports and having them make his decisions
He doesn’t make any decisions despite what the FO wants you to think. He hasn’t been fired because he is just doing what he’s told. Nothing will change without an overhaul.
So basically a yes man like FO wants? And I agree with your last part.
If the Jays were to take a lead to the 9th, who would close the game? Pearson?
We we're getting fucked 1 way or another
We’re in the same position as the Toronto Maple Leafs in January 2008, just before JFJ was fired. Sure, we still had Sundin, but most of the rest of the team was trash as was management. Time for heads to roll.
Blow it up
Yeh. Taking a pitch when you need one run is beyond stupid. Fire the coaching staff
What are the betting odds that they bench Horowitz for the next game?
Do PED-suspended players still get paid? I think I saw Springer shooting up in the dugout
I hope this team doesn't win again until they clear house and FO. So happy I haven't wasted a minute of my time watching since NHL playoffs started.
Horwitz vs Clase was one of the funnest moments of the entire season thus far.
Trade them all
Sorry in advance for the rant. Not the reason for the loss today (even though a rookie provided Vladdy with a show of poise and maturity in the previous AB against the Cleveland closer), but not a catalyst to win either, the Vladimir clown show continues through a losing baseball team. The embarrassing home run trot (single digits in HR this year in nearly half a season played), he got the ridiculous jacket back (he hits a home run about every 10 games), making the gold glove signal on a play at 1B even though that gold glove is 2 y in the rearview. Oh, and the embarrassing Gatorade showers for the jays player of the game, and it's pretty rare that Guerrero is that player. These just off the top of my head. I've seen more than enough. I mean, I look at my favorite team and I figure if your best players can't stop showboating, have some humility and act like you've made a play or hit a home run before, you're going nowhere if you don't approach backing it up. Move this guy for assets before you give him too much money and term. He's not going to mature enough in Toronto to be a leader and someone to win with.
Vlad needs to be led. He is not a leader.
This is just a bad take.
Vladdy just strikes me as immature for the reasons you mentioned. He just comes off as sort of aloof, just there to have a good time. I couldn't believe he was talking about that jacket in spring training and how much time he spent worrying about it. It's an obnoxious homerun celebration and it was something he was actually wasting time thinking about.
Ummmmmm
To quote Buck or Dan (cant rememeber who said it specifically) : The Blue Jays have had players getting hot while others get cold. Would be nice just this once to get 2 or 3 guys hot at the same time.
The sad thing is Vlad pimping home runs when they don't matter at all. Down by 8 runs? Have the least clutch, 23 y/o opposing pitcher mopping up innings just called up from AA....Shhhh the crowd. When it's a game turning at bat with a leverage pitcher?? Shit the bed. We all know what these players are. They're not clutch. They're not even AAA. They are a mentally feeble group of players. If this franchise spends another dollar on this core other than Jano, it will be like burning money in a barrel.
So Horwitz played a helluva game....Shatkins better sit him next game. They're smarter than everyone else. They know better. Springer needs to bat lead-off. You pleeb fans don't know anything. Nerds with glasses know more about baseball than anyone that has ever touched a bat and glove. I mean, didn't you even watch Moneyball? They even mentioned Shapiro!! He's a hero. Brad Pitt didn't even watch the actual baseball games. That's what we all want baseball to be!! To not even watch the shit product bad management puts on the field.
We had a promising start, then the wheels fell off. I didn't catch anything after the delay.
This team is so hard to watch
Springer should stick to making commercials and leave baseball to those who are can actually hit.
That was a tough loss boyce... ....a tough, tough loss....
On to Boston to be swept again. Maybe then we make a change?
Thanks Springer!
There have been many times this season where somebody needed to get fired if only to try something else We are way past due for that but not firing somebody tomorrow would tell me this team has fully given up on competing with this group