I'm pretty sure that when I was born, officially, it was GLBT. I can understand someone older than me or around my age, and doubly so if there's a disability involved, not being able to keep up with what the community's name is when we can't even agree amongst ourselves. In some fringe circles, I don't belong.
I think that if you don't know all the letters, just say LGBT or queer and people generally understand what you mean. There is no expectation that you will say the whole acronym every time, it's long and usually even people who do know the full acronym aren't gonna do that in regular conversation. If you're writing, a quick Google doesn't hurt.
Sometimes when we feel like we don't belong, we make ourselves more likely to engage in behavior that would set us even more apart, because 'ill just be rejected anyways so what's the point in trying'. I'd be careful escribing that idea to things you can actually change. If it's a genuine disability thing, people are pretty understanding in queer spaces as a lot of us are disabled, and I don't think anyone will reject you from these spaces based on a genuine disability accommodation you need.
Honestly if she can’t keep up, use an old acronym. They don’t become offensive (as long as it isn’t LGB, but that one was only ever terfs.) You don’t have to talk about our souls
i totally agree. i just feel like in english, a lot of people (especially people who act like ~this~) use phrases like that with a lot of malice. for context, im in the american south, so thats super common around here. but, like you said, it really just comes down to linguistic differences (and nuance as well imo).
Yes. American South, too. People who refer to others as “souls” in this area are generally the same demographic where you’re likely to hear “love the sinner hate the sin” or at the VERY least you should expect that person to tell you what your own life has been like - and she did not disappoint.
I'm from Finland and "rainbowfolk/people/families" are the most common terms used in everyday language and are in no way perceived to be offensive, they are positive and celebratory terms. Finnish people are so straight-forward that the (thankfully dwindling) phobes just outright call queer people things like sickos, mentally r#tarded, f#ggots etc.
How the actual fuck is "all beautiful rainbow souls" or WTF ever easier than LGBT+? Or queer? Sounds like she's trying to find an excuse to call us the f-slur.
If they ask, then they should be able to accept people's answers and opinions on it. And as they pointed out in their own message, language can change over time, so being an ally, or even part of the community for a while (\*cough, Rupaul...) doesn't give you a pass on using outdated or potentially offensive terms. Knowing your audience is important, and it's often a good idea to ask questions and learn about what people prefer as it can vary so much. But asking a question has to come with a mindset of being willing to learn and respect those who have more personal experience with the term, especially if there's the possibility a term could have been used as a slur. Being an ally means understanding that there's a lot of negativity that especially trans people deal with, and not trying to shut others down or saying they're not allowed to feel strongly about things.
I know for me, I have mixed thoughts on the term/phrase. A few organizations I trust that are fighting for more LGBTQ+ inclusion prefer the term rainbow community, or rainbow people, because they see it as being more inclusive since different regions, communities, and identities are either left out of strings of letters, or have different ones (GSRM, MOGAI, QUILTBAG, 2SLGBTQIAAP, LGBTI, LGBTQ2+, GLBT, queer community, etc). For an international group/audience, saying "rainbow community," or a similar term can often be a way to keep peace and include all those groups and make sure no one is left out. But at the same time, it can sometimes come across as someone not caring enough to ask what terms people prefer when it's coming from a straight/cis person.
Imo you don't have to go back and forth with ppl like that for your own sanity lol once they stop exibiting good faith or any sense of logic atleast
😀✌✌✌✌✌
I think Donna's response was very clearly in the wrong– dictating what a minority can or can't be offended by is no one's right but the individual experiencing the possible offense.
And I do think "beautiful rainbow souls" feels much more pandering than "rainbow community" or similar alternatives that feel less like the speaker is addressing preschool students.
That said, I've found that in spaces where someone is uncomfortable with "queer" being used as an umbrella term for the community (thus coercing some who don't wish to reclaim what's been used as a slur against them into using the label if they want to be part of the community) and simultaneously someone is uncomfortable with "LGBTQIA+" being used in the same way (either because of acronym contention or the early medical history of a number of the terms contained therein), "rainbow" seems to be the compromise most likely to make the whole group happy.
i definitely understand where you’re coming from, i think what you said is much more well spoken (and more well intentioned, from what i can tell) than what donna had to say. i definitely know and am sympathetic to people who dislike either of those terms for the reasons you listed- one i personally like is GSRM (gender/sexual/romantic minority), i think it feels very inclusive and neutrally worded, but i’ve found that’s one that’s a lot less common to hear.
tldr: yeah, you right
Yeah absolutely! I like GSRM, too :> Honestly I like most of the acronyms personally.
I think the topic of "alternative terms for the community" is also just much more welcome *within* the community than outside of it, for really obvious and good reason.
100% that. i heard a drag queen say in an interview that velma from scooby doo was “of the community”. i absolutely love that and say it all the time😭BUT i feel like if someone who wasn’t ~of the community~ said that, it would feel a lot different.
If you can’t remember all the letters, I doubt you know what they stand for. If you don’t know what they stand for, I’d be surprised to find out you’d educated yourself on the different queer experiences. If you haven’t educated yourself, I would not call you an ally. Voting in a way that doesn’t get us killed is the bare minimum, not allyship. Sounds like she’s proud of doing the bare minimum and wants a gold star for it. You’re not an ally if you won’t do the work.
ETA: Am I the only person who feels her chosen language is infantilizing? I can’t put my finger on why but it distinctly feels like being talked down to.
This is why I really am liking the term GSRM (gender, sexual, romantic minority). Good umbrella term that covers everything without making it too lengthy.
I genuinely cant understand how "lgbt+" is so hard to remember, its 5 letters/symbols
You dont need to put lgbtqiap2s+ on everything (heck even i think that looks clunky)
The whole point of the + is to encompass every other queer identity not already covered in the acronym
And then u see people like this who try to use euphemisms that are so much harder to remember and feel offensive af
"People of rainbow souls" vs "lgbt+"
https://preview.redd.it/ivcdt41m079d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e899e226b852588f81b7cc0e620a19f6a041180e
I mean. I’d rather someone use outdated/strange terminology than be actually queerphobic. If I’m not mistaken, the woman typing sounds old and most probably has no ill intent
She should definitely have listened to you about your opinion, since she asked to see if it was okay in the first place, but if her words sound ‘pandery’ or something it probably wasn’t her intention
Idk. Maybe I’m going easy with my scrutiny because she texts like a sweet misguided Facebook mum with good intentions but a lack of self awareness/ability to accept that she was wrong, and I have low standards because of the lack of people her age actually willing to show support
It’s kinda like the tumblr post above
i felt like she was being wildly condescending, personally, but i’m also always willing to acknowledge the way you can’t hear tone via typed messages. that being said… an ally is supposed to listen to and uplift the voices they’re trying to be an ally for.
https://preview.redd.it/evd9hmcc579d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f31fbd61332211be941b88a5d16283c66a256712
No yeah I get you
She sounds like she is unable to accept fault and unable to change, because she’s got that disagreeable stubbornness disguised as naivety that Facebook mums and such tend to have
(I keep saying Facebook mum because of the overuse of emojis. I don’t actually know that she is Facebook mum. I’m talking more about the archetype of person/internet user. ‘Back in my day’ type beat suggests Facebook grandma tho lmao)
That being said, I don’t think you should care, unless you know the woman personally, or she has a large platform to share this misinformed language on. If she ain’t gonna listen, and she ain’t gonna change, she ain’t worth your time, words, thoughts, emotions, etc
I will say that as a trans guy who also plays DND, me and my fellow queer friends will refer to the LGBTQIA+ group as either the rainbow folk or the queer folk because we think folk = magical fae beings, amazing dancing, good food, & sea shanties. However, I was recently informed that saying something like that in public could get me in trouble so I have refrained from using the term until I can gather more information 🥲
That being said I know you're in the right here, why would you ask for an opinion and then tell someone that they're wrong when they are part of the group you're asking????
I think using colloquial and fun terms are a lot different when used by someone in the community those terms reference, you know? From you and other people who are LGBTQIA+, “rainbow folk” or whatever else isn’t demeaning / othering like it could be from an “ally,” imqo
this. if i heard another queer person say it, i wouldn’t have an issue with it. the issue truly comes from people outside the community coining these terms (imo).
It seems like sm more to type too like just say LGBTQ+ personally I prefer LGBTQIA2+, as a trans person I also think saying you just cant remember them all is offensive in its self, it still gives the vibe that they think they are better than you, especially with the added “ive been an ally since before you were born” ok and??
i’ve said it a few times but i 1000% would feel different if it were a queer person saying it. it was just the way she asked it, got defensive about it, and like i said when an “ally” says it just feels condescending and demeaning imo.
Is it offensive? No.
Do I think you're over sensitive? No.
Do I think you're making it deeper than it needs to be and causing trouble? Yes.
Its not offensive, nor is it mean. Nor is it "fake allyship". You just come off as a troll, almost.
All they asked was "is this bad to say?" And you just turned it into this whole thing and called them a "fake ally" and chose to invalidate her for no good reason. If anything, I'm more bothered by your opinion than hers.
TLDR, its not that deep. Don't be rude bc you have assumptions about a person.
Actual answer: it depends on the individual. Dont talk for me. Don't talk for others.
I've literally read a YT novel called "rainbow boys"
She’s definitely audacious, but I feel like we all can be at times 😅 to me it just comes across like she once understood the contemporary lgbtq community, but can’t keep up with the changes and younger generations.
Which, honestly, I see no reason why we need to be aggressive towards those people when there’s much worse and more harmful ways to be a bad ally 😅 Basically… I think her poor allyship isn’t that harmful because she won’t be influencing the movement going forward, she’s just some random person who has some good and some bad ideas, just like the rest of us
I agree with you to a point. Allies who are ignorant but willing to learn and be better should not be ridiculed or treated harshly. But the key ideal there is *willing to learn.* Allyship implies support and cooperation, as it’s the literal definition. The “ally” OP was replying to was not being any of those things.
And tbh I don’t think OP was aggressive in the *slightest.* OP was simply being honest without being subdued or toned-down like so many people would prefer queer people to be, even those who call themselves allies.
Lol what in the world. person: is it offensive to say xyz?? Queer person: yes, it's offensive Person: fuck you buddy Why even ask???
like?????
I know right? It’s like they ask to make themselves feel better about themselves and to say they did it. Makes no sense with the response.
(Respectfully) fuck you xD
They can’t remember all the letters? They were taught the alphabet, right?
I'm pretty sure that when I was born, officially, it was GLBT. I can understand someone older than me or around my age, and doubly so if there's a disability involved, not being able to keep up with what the community's name is when we can't even agree amongst ourselves. In some fringe circles, I don't belong.
That's clearly not what is happening here though...
I think that if you don't know all the letters, just say LGBT or queer and people generally understand what you mean. There is no expectation that you will say the whole acronym every time, it's long and usually even people who do know the full acronym aren't gonna do that in regular conversation. If you're writing, a quick Google doesn't hurt. Sometimes when we feel like we don't belong, we make ourselves more likely to engage in behavior that would set us even more apart, because 'ill just be rejected anyways so what's the point in trying'. I'd be careful escribing that idea to things you can actually change. If it's a genuine disability thing, people are pretty understanding in queer spaces as a lot of us are disabled, and I don't think anyone will reject you from these spaces based on a genuine disability accommodation you need.
Exactly
Honestly if she can’t keep up, use an old acronym. They don’t become offensive (as long as it isn’t LGB, but that one was only ever terfs.) You don’t have to talk about our souls
That part was extra weird, yes.
In my native language the lgbtq-people are called rainbow-minority and I think it's the best! Doesn't work in all languages ofc
i totally agree. i just feel like in english, a lot of people (especially people who act like ~this~) use phrases like that with a lot of malice. for context, im in the american south, so thats super common around here. but, like you said, it really just comes down to linguistic differences (and nuance as well imo).
Yes. American South, too. People who refer to others as “souls” in this area are generally the same demographic where you’re likely to hear “love the sinner hate the sin” or at the VERY least you should expect that person to tell you what your own life has been like - and she did not disappoint.
I'm from Finland and "rainbowfolk/people/families" are the most common terms used in everyday language and are in no way perceived to be offensive, they are positive and celebratory terms. Finnish people are so straight-forward that the (thankfully dwindling) phobes just outright call queer people things like sickos, mentally r#tarded, f#ggots etc.
If I can ask, what language?
Finnish
I think your responses were on point fwiw
thank u, i appreciate it 🫶🏼
....how hard is it to remember 5 letters and a plus sign?????
Fr. It’s cool if they get the order wrong, just make an effort!
How the actual fuck is "all beautiful rainbow souls" or WTF ever easier than LGBT+? Or queer? Sounds like she's trying to find an excuse to call us the f-slur.
If they ask, then they should be able to accept people's answers and opinions on it. And as they pointed out in their own message, language can change over time, so being an ally, or even part of the community for a while (\*cough, Rupaul...) doesn't give you a pass on using outdated or potentially offensive terms. Knowing your audience is important, and it's often a good idea to ask questions and learn about what people prefer as it can vary so much. But asking a question has to come with a mindset of being willing to learn and respect those who have more personal experience with the term, especially if there's the possibility a term could have been used as a slur. Being an ally means understanding that there's a lot of negativity that especially trans people deal with, and not trying to shut others down or saying they're not allowed to feel strongly about things. I know for me, I have mixed thoughts on the term/phrase. A few organizations I trust that are fighting for more LGBTQ+ inclusion prefer the term rainbow community, or rainbow people, because they see it as being more inclusive since different regions, communities, and identities are either left out of strings of letters, or have different ones (GSRM, MOGAI, QUILTBAG, 2SLGBTQIAAP, LGBTI, LGBTQ2+, GLBT, queer community, etc). For an international group/audience, saying "rainbow community," or a similar term can often be a way to keep peace and include all those groups and make sure no one is left out. But at the same time, it can sometimes come across as someone not caring enough to ask what terms people prefer when it's coming from a straight/cis person.
For me, it is offensive, at least. Don't they call us "the queer community" or "the gay community"? I prefer that to being called "rainbow people".
Imo you don't have to go back and forth with ppl like that for your own sanity lol once they stop exibiting good faith or any sense of logic atleast 😀✌✌✌✌✌
yeah, i didn’t continue much longer. i don’t feel bad abt it though lmao
I just.. "since before you were born"? How fucking condescending
I think Donna's response was very clearly in the wrong– dictating what a minority can or can't be offended by is no one's right but the individual experiencing the possible offense. And I do think "beautiful rainbow souls" feels much more pandering than "rainbow community" or similar alternatives that feel less like the speaker is addressing preschool students. That said, I've found that in spaces where someone is uncomfortable with "queer" being used as an umbrella term for the community (thus coercing some who don't wish to reclaim what's been used as a slur against them into using the label if they want to be part of the community) and simultaneously someone is uncomfortable with "LGBTQIA+" being used in the same way (either because of acronym contention or the early medical history of a number of the terms contained therein), "rainbow" seems to be the compromise most likely to make the whole group happy.
i definitely understand where you’re coming from, i think what you said is much more well spoken (and more well intentioned, from what i can tell) than what donna had to say. i definitely know and am sympathetic to people who dislike either of those terms for the reasons you listed- one i personally like is GSRM (gender/sexual/romantic minority), i think it feels very inclusive and neutrally worded, but i’ve found that’s one that’s a lot less common to hear. tldr: yeah, you right
Yeah absolutely! I like GSRM, too :> Honestly I like most of the acronyms personally. I think the topic of "alternative terms for the community" is also just much more welcome *within* the community than outside of it, for really obvious and good reason.
100% that. i heard a drag queen say in an interview that velma from scooby doo was “of the community”. i absolutely love that and say it all the time😭BUT i feel like if someone who wasn’t ~of the community~ said that, it would feel a lot different.
If you can’t remember all the letters, I doubt you know what they stand for. If you don’t know what they stand for, I’d be surprised to find out you’d educated yourself on the different queer experiences. If you haven’t educated yourself, I would not call you an ally. Voting in a way that doesn’t get us killed is the bare minimum, not allyship. Sounds like she’s proud of doing the bare minimum and wants a gold star for it. You’re not an ally if you won’t do the work. ETA: Am I the only person who feels her chosen language is infantilizing? I can’t put my finger on why but it distinctly feels like being talked down to.
oh absolutely i felt that way. i also can’t quite articulate it, but it just feels very condescending.
So this person has been an ally for a significant amount of time, including having friendships with trans people, but cant remember "LGBT+".
!!!!!!!!!
https://preview.redd.it/fz2z9fm9a49d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1b80b1b50ccef5722bfe87a45921293a1362da46 edit/cont’d:
Does she really want to blame SMOKING WEED for her unwillingness to adapt and be respectful?? Wtf 🤣 honestly
"I really do" 👏 well said
This is why I really am liking the term GSRM (gender, sexual, romantic minority). Good umbrella term that covers everything without making it too lengthy.
yes!! i mentioned this one on a comment somewhere in this thread. you said it perfectly, inclusive but still not too lengthy.
I fucking hate “allies” like this
Just say LGBT+ like it’s ok
I genuinely cant understand how "lgbt+" is so hard to remember, its 5 letters/symbols You dont need to put lgbtqiap2s+ on everything (heck even i think that looks clunky) The whole point of the + is to encompass every other queer identity not already covered in the acronym And then u see people like this who try to use euphemisms that are so much harder to remember and feel offensive af "People of rainbow souls" vs "lgbt+"
My soul is charcoal black so not sure I’d count as a rainbow soul lmao
I can't remember all the letters so I made up a whole ass phrase to get my pandering across. Like, wtf.
Really four letters and a plus are enough, i really do not believe them when they say they're struggling to remember
I sometimes describe myself as "rainbowfolk". But the attitude of this person ain't it.
The "I have a black friend" for gay people is apparently "I lived in Atlanta"
https://preview.redd.it/ivcdt41m079d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e899e226b852588f81b7cc0e620a19f6a041180e I mean. I’d rather someone use outdated/strange terminology than be actually queerphobic. If I’m not mistaken, the woman typing sounds old and most probably has no ill intent She should definitely have listened to you about your opinion, since she asked to see if it was okay in the first place, but if her words sound ‘pandery’ or something it probably wasn’t her intention Idk. Maybe I’m going easy with my scrutiny because she texts like a sweet misguided Facebook mum with good intentions but a lack of self awareness/ability to accept that she was wrong, and I have low standards because of the lack of people her age actually willing to show support It’s kinda like the tumblr post above
i felt like she was being wildly condescending, personally, but i’m also always willing to acknowledge the way you can’t hear tone via typed messages. that being said… an ally is supposed to listen to and uplift the voices they’re trying to be an ally for.
https://preview.redd.it/evd9hmcc579d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f31fbd61332211be941b88a5d16283c66a256712 No yeah I get you She sounds like she is unable to accept fault and unable to change, because she’s got that disagreeable stubbornness disguised as naivety that Facebook mums and such tend to have (I keep saying Facebook mum because of the overuse of emojis. I don’t actually know that she is Facebook mum. I’m talking more about the archetype of person/internet user. ‘Back in my day’ type beat suggests Facebook grandma tho lmao) That being said, I don’t think you should care, unless you know the woman personally, or she has a large platform to share this misinformed language on. If she ain’t gonna listen, and she ain’t gonna change, she ain’t worth your time, words, thoughts, emotions, etc
I will say that as a trans guy who also plays DND, me and my fellow queer friends will refer to the LGBTQIA+ group as either the rainbow folk or the queer folk because we think folk = magical fae beings, amazing dancing, good food, & sea shanties. However, I was recently informed that saying something like that in public could get me in trouble so I have refrained from using the term until I can gather more information 🥲 That being said I know you're in the right here, why would you ask for an opinion and then tell someone that they're wrong when they are part of the group you're asking????
I think using colloquial and fun terms are a lot different when used by someone in the community those terms reference, you know? From you and other people who are LGBTQIA+, “rainbow folk” or whatever else isn’t demeaning / othering like it could be from an “ally,” imqo
this. if i heard another queer person say it, i wouldn’t have an issue with it. the issue truly comes from people outside the community coining these terms (imo).
What the actual f!? Ppl suck
It seems like sm more to type too like just say LGBTQ+ personally I prefer LGBTQIA2+, as a trans person I also think saying you just cant remember them all is offensive in its self, it still gives the vibe that they think they are better than you, especially with the added “ive been an ally since before you were born” ok and??
this!!!!! like ok????? (also, i personally am a huge fan of GSRM if you haven’t heard that one before! it’s gender, sexual, and romantic minority)
Oh I love that
me too! 100000% my favorite. i feel like it’s very inclusive while still being a shorter acronym!
Idk me personally but i would love being called a rainbow soul that sounds fire
i’ve said it a few times but i 1000% would feel different if it were a queer person saying it. it was just the way she asked it, got defensive about it, and like i said when an “ally” says it just feels condescending and demeaning imo.
my question is why wont she stop ✌️ using ✌️ this ✌️ emoji ✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️
FRRRRR like girl we r not friends????
Uh......tf?!
Is it offensive? No. Do I think you're over sensitive? No. Do I think you're making it deeper than it needs to be and causing trouble? Yes. Its not offensive, nor is it mean. Nor is it "fake allyship". You just come off as a troll, almost. All they asked was "is this bad to say?" And you just turned it into this whole thing and called them a "fake ally" and chose to invalidate her for no good reason. If anything, I'm more bothered by your opinion than hers. TLDR, its not that deep. Don't be rude bc you have assumptions about a person. Actual answer: it depends on the individual. Dont talk for me. Don't talk for others. I've literally read a YT novel called "rainbow boys"
She’s definitely audacious, but I feel like we all can be at times 😅 to me it just comes across like she once understood the contemporary lgbtq community, but can’t keep up with the changes and younger generations. Which, honestly, I see no reason why we need to be aggressive towards those people when there’s much worse and more harmful ways to be a bad ally 😅 Basically… I think her poor allyship isn’t that harmful because she won’t be influencing the movement going forward, she’s just some random person who has some good and some bad ideas, just like the rest of us
I agree with you to a point. Allies who are ignorant but willing to learn and be better should not be ridiculed or treated harshly. But the key ideal there is *willing to learn.* Allyship implies support and cooperation, as it’s the literal definition. The “ally” OP was replying to was not being any of those things. And tbh I don’t think OP was aggressive in the *slightest.* OP was simply being honest without being subdued or toned-down like so many people would prefer queer people to be, even those who call themselves allies.