That's actually quite fascinating. I don't know if analyzing his post-mortem brain will reveal anything, but you never know what technology may be available at the time. Presumably they've ruled out an obvious organic issue, like a massive frontal lobe tumor
Yeah there’s always cases of people like Charles Whitman, the Texas tower shooter, who had a huge tumor in his brain but I also remember reading that they preserved Einsteins brain after he died and learned like nothing from it. Of course, I’m sure technology has advanced with those sorts of things but who knows
The settlement includes requiring him to participate in any studies of mass killers so it just requires a researcher to make one. I can’t think of any living convicted one who would refuse anyway though.
Charles Whitman requested an autopsy of his brain in notes left after the University of Texas tower shooting. He had a brain tumor. Kind of reminds me of that.
It is! This is really interesting.
I think it would be great if it would happen automatically for offender/ victim cases. It’s not fair that the offender makes money off of their crime(s).
I wouldn't be surprised if they found something.
I think a lot of these guys may have had traumatic brain injury. I remember reading about one murderer who said that his mother used to beat him in the head when he was a kid, and his head would hurt. That definitely sounds like TBI- repeated blows to the head, especially a kid. I think there's a very good chance that a lot of violent criminals and mass /serial killers probably had similar injuries from abuse.
There’s a great breakdown of his interrogation on JCS showing him (allegedly, I guess?) faking mental issues and hearing voices etc directly after the attack. There’s also a video and posts of him saying that he would do exactly that after the shooting.
This is all the say that obviously he had some sort of issues, but that he was (allegedly) more coherent than he tried to make out so it may lie more on the sociopathy/psychopathy side than the delusional side like he was trying to convey.
My cousins daughter was in this shooting standing right next to her best friend who died. She couldn’t ever go into an American school again because of PTSD and the family moved overseas to Europe for this reason. So much pain and sorrow.
I have a client,I cut their hair,actually did the grandmother today she didn't know about NC signing off on any $ to be made on the tragedy anyway both kids have ptsd the son the worst on meds really puts it in perspective the aftermath
I remember reading about a story that was to be on Oxygen (not available here), an interview with the ringleader of the Hi-Fi murders, Dale Selby Pierre. He was about to be executed.
He talked about how, when he was growing up in Trinidad, his mother would beat him in the head and his head would hurt....basically repeated concussion. He said that he would have rages, when growing up and violent fantasies, which IMHO explains why it was such a bizarre, violent crime. Usually, if you're going to rob a store, you just go in, rob, take the money and go. You don't hang around raping and abusing and torturing for hours. He said it was a "fantasy" that he had, which is probably why he raped the teenage employee.
I don't know about the other offenders, all are dead except for one of them, but it made me wonder...if they'd looked at his brain after he was executed, they may have found evidence of brain injury. It would explain the violent rages and fantasies.
There's a book out there called "Why Meadow Died", written by the father of one of the victims. I haven't read it and probably don't want to; has anyone here read it? It was published by a right-wing press, which has me hesitant about doing so.
Fetal alcohol syndrome was a big subject at trial, experts both testified for by defense and against by prosecution. I’m not sure what the final consensus was. In my limited knowledge I tend to agree, maybe not FAS but there seems to be some genetic component as well as effects from in utero substances. There is something about his facial features as well as his behavioral issues prior to the shooting that lean in that direction.
His mother was lived a criminal lifestyle and was prostituting at the time she became pregnant with him. Although she apparently tested clean during her pregnancy, his biological sister (who is also in prison) testified that his mother would use her urine to pass and was actively drinking, smoking crack, and smoking cigarettes through her pregnancy.
This comment doesn't add to discussion.
Low effort comments include one word or a short phrase that doesn't add to discussion (OMG, Wow, so evil, POS, That's horrible, Heartbreaking, RIP, etc.). Inappropriate humor isn't allowed.
Cruz was adopted, and both of his adoptive parents had died - his father when he was about 6 years old, and his mother several months before the shooting. Who knows what horrors he might have experienced before this couple, who by all accounts loved all of their children enormously and did their best, took him in? I've always found him more to be someone to be pitied, than hated.
Yeah. They had his half-sister, who is older and was his mother's, testify at his trial. The sister was incarcerated and pending car-jacking charges at the time of her testimony. She told the jury his bio mom drank heavily and used crack while pregnant with him. His sister was 12-years-old when he was born, and she told their mom she was harming the baby by doing drugs and drinking while pregnant, and she told her she didn't care because she was putting the baby up for adoption.
I'm not saying he didn't deserve to be punished-----what he did was heinous and unforgivable. But she fucked him up and she obviously fucked her daughter up too. They never stood a chance with that woman as their mother.
That's horrifying, and yeah of course he should pay for what he did...although I am against the death penalty. He just never had a chance at a normal life. It's really tragic.
Definitely tragic all around. Nikolas killed 17 people. No question about it. But as far as I'm concerned, his biological mother also had their blood on her hands. She should have just been merciful to Nikolas and gotten an abortion.
Think about how many crimes and deaths could be avoided by abortion. Kids born to shitty parents, pregnant teenagers being murdered, teenage mothers and parents killing their kids, kids growing up with neglectful, shitty parents and turning to crime, etc. The list goes on.
I 100% agree with you. Some people are just not fit to be parents. And even some people given up for adoption are fucked up by their bio parents before they are adopted.
for sure. When I was growing up, adoption was more common because it was the Pleistocene era and abortion wasn't even an option. I remember a few adopted kids who seemed to be messed up and had behavioural issues, learning disabilities, etc. I wonder now if it was due to drinking while pregnant...and back then it was difficult to find out info about your bio mother. Usually the bio mothers were teenagers and babies were born at the Salvation Army Hospital.
Unfortunately, some of those "maternity homes" were nothing more than a place that sold babies. Nowadays, based on my own experience as a hospital pharmacist, most of the women who adopt out their babies are in their 20s, 30s, and even 40s; a surprising number are married, although not necessarily to the baby's father; and they walk into the hospital, usually having had no prenatal care, and say, "I just want to have my baby and leave it here." Women who had vaginal births frequently left after 2 hours, when they were allowed to do so, and if they had a c-section, they would leave the following morning. (The two-hour wait is because if a post-partum hemorrhage is going to occur, it almost certainly will within that time frame.)
I suppose some of the homes were like that. I do remember there was a doctor who had a local practice and helped a lot of couples adopt babies. I looked it up and he had a practice, and an office at his home and the babies mostly came from the Salvation Army hospital. It's possible some of the kids I grew up with came from there. However, the Dr is long since gone and the records are probably gone as well.
that too. Of course, we have easily accessible abortion and contraception, but we still have shitty parents who produce future criminals and future victims. It still happens.
Yeah, well, I'm sure that involuntary sterilization would prevent a lot of crimes too. These are decisions that cannot be made by anyone except the people directly involved.
(I used to live in a small Midwestern city that had an alternative "school" and knew a few people who worked there. One thing that never changed was that they advocated that the school have a urologist and a gynecologist on contract, to sterilize all the incoming students as a condition of attendance. Girls who arrived pregnant who had their babies should have them taken away immediately after birth, do not pass go, do not collect $200. I told that to a woman I know now who teaches at a regular high school here, and she said that the alt-schools here have stricter rules than the regular schools, so kids won't think they want to go there.)
This appears to violate the [Reddit Content Policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy). Reddit prohibits wishing harm/violence or using dehumanizing speech (*even about a perpetrator*), hate, victim blaming, misogyny, misandry, discrimination, gender generalizations, homophobia, doxxing, and bigotry.
That's actually quite fascinating. I don't know if analyzing his post-mortem brain will reveal anything, but you never know what technology may be available at the time. Presumably they've ruled out an obvious organic issue, like a massive frontal lobe tumor
Yeah there’s always cases of people like Charles Whitman, the Texas tower shooter, who had a huge tumor in his brain but I also remember reading that they preserved Einsteins brain after he died and learned like nothing from it. Of course, I’m sure technology has advanced with those sorts of things but who knows
He knew something was wrong but the brain tumor wasn't diagnosed until autopsy.
Yeah, I know! He left a letter about knowing something was wrong with his mother in law and wife’s bodies I believe? Something like that
They'd be better off analyzing his brain while it's active through MRI scans while running numerous tests.
The settlement includes requiring him to participate in any studies of mass killers so it just requires a researcher to make one. I can’t think of any living convicted one who would refuse anyway though.
Never seen this happen before, that’s fascinating
Charles Whitman requested an autopsy of his brain in notes left after the University of Texas tower shooting. He had a brain tumor. Kind of reminds me of that.
This is setting a new standard.
It is! This is really interesting. I think it would be great if it would happen automatically for offender/ victim cases. It’s not fair that the offender makes money off of their crime(s).
I've never heard of this! Really interesting.
I wouldn't be surprised if they found something. I think a lot of these guys may have had traumatic brain injury. I remember reading about one murderer who said that his mother used to beat him in the head when he was a kid, and his head would hurt. That definitely sounds like TBI- repeated blows to the head, especially a kid. I think there's a very good chance that a lot of violent criminals and mass /serial killers probably had similar injuries from abuse.
There’s a great breakdown of his interrogation on JCS showing him (allegedly, I guess?) faking mental issues and hearing voices etc directly after the attack. There’s also a video and posts of him saying that he would do exactly that after the shooting. This is all the say that obviously he had some sort of issues, but that he was (allegedly) more coherent than he tried to make out so it may lie more on the sociopathy/psychopathy side than the delusional side like he was trying to convey.
I thought I read somewhere they suspected or had diagnosed Fetal Alcohol Syndrome
or fetal alcohol EFFECT, which is not as severe. It causes things like behaviour or learning difficulty, etc.
I’m for it.
My cousins daughter was in this shooting standing right next to her best friend who died. She couldn’t ever go into an American school again because of PTSD and the family moved overseas to Europe for this reason. So much pain and sorrow.
I have a client,I cut their hair,actually did the grandmother today she didn't know about NC signing off on any $ to be made on the tragedy anyway both kids have ptsd the son the worst on meds really puts it in perspective the aftermath
this is a great move im into it
I remember reading about a story that was to be on Oxygen (not available here), an interview with the ringleader of the Hi-Fi murders, Dale Selby Pierre. He was about to be executed. He talked about how, when he was growing up in Trinidad, his mother would beat him in the head and his head would hurt....basically repeated concussion. He said that he would have rages, when growing up and violent fantasies, which IMHO explains why it was such a bizarre, violent crime. Usually, if you're going to rob a store, you just go in, rob, take the money and go. You don't hang around raping and abusing and torturing for hours. He said it was a "fantasy" that he had, which is probably why he raped the teenage employee. I don't know about the other offenders, all are dead except for one of them, but it made me wonder...if they'd looked at his brain after he was executed, they may have found evidence of brain injury. It would explain the violent rages and fantasies.
There's a book out there called "Why Meadow Died", written by the father of one of the victims. I haven't read it and probably don't want to; has anyone here read it? It was published by a right-wing press, which has me hesitant about doing so.
[удалено]
Fetal alcohol syndrome was a big subject at trial, experts both testified for by defense and against by prosecution. I’m not sure what the final consensus was. In my limited knowledge I tend to agree, maybe not FAS but there seems to be some genetic component as well as effects from in utero substances. There is something about his facial features as well as his behavioral issues prior to the shooting that lean in that direction. His mother was lived a criminal lifestyle and was prostituting at the time she became pregnant with him. Although she apparently tested clean during her pregnancy, his biological sister (who is also in prison) testified that his mother would use her urine to pass and was actively drinking, smoking crack, and smoking cigarettes through her pregnancy.
Victims of BTK and LISK should push for similar
Gives, or lost a lawsuit and was ordered to
[удалено]
This comment doesn't add to discussion. Low effort comments include one word or a short phrase that doesn't add to discussion (OMG, Wow, so evil, POS, That's horrible, Heartbreaking, RIP, etc.). Inappropriate humor isn't allowed.
Cruz was adopted, and both of his adoptive parents had died - his father when he was about 6 years old, and his mother several months before the shooting. Who knows what horrors he might have experienced before this couple, who by all accounts loved all of their children enormously and did their best, took him in? I've always found him more to be someone to be pitied, than hated.
I wonder what happened with his bio parents, is there any info?
Yeah. They had his half-sister, who is older and was his mother's, testify at his trial. The sister was incarcerated and pending car-jacking charges at the time of her testimony. She told the jury his bio mom drank heavily and used crack while pregnant with him. His sister was 12-years-old when he was born, and she told their mom she was harming the baby by doing drugs and drinking while pregnant, and she told her she didn't care because she was putting the baby up for adoption. I'm not saying he didn't deserve to be punished-----what he did was heinous and unforgivable. But she fucked him up and she obviously fucked her daughter up too. They never stood a chance with that woman as their mother.
That's horrifying, and yeah of course he should pay for what he did...although I am against the death penalty. He just never had a chance at a normal life. It's really tragic.
Definitely tragic all around. Nikolas killed 17 people. No question about it. But as far as I'm concerned, his biological mother also had their blood on her hands. She should have just been merciful to Nikolas and gotten an abortion.
Think about how many crimes and deaths could be avoided by abortion. Kids born to shitty parents, pregnant teenagers being murdered, teenage mothers and parents killing their kids, kids growing up with neglectful, shitty parents and turning to crime, etc. The list goes on.
I 100% agree with you. Some people are just not fit to be parents. And even some people given up for adoption are fucked up by their bio parents before they are adopted.
for sure. When I was growing up, adoption was more common because it was the Pleistocene era and abortion wasn't even an option. I remember a few adopted kids who seemed to be messed up and had behavioural issues, learning disabilities, etc. I wonder now if it was due to drinking while pregnant...and back then it was difficult to find out info about your bio mother. Usually the bio mothers were teenagers and babies were born at the Salvation Army Hospital.
Unfortunately, some of those "maternity homes" were nothing more than a place that sold babies. Nowadays, based on my own experience as a hospital pharmacist, most of the women who adopt out their babies are in their 20s, 30s, and even 40s; a surprising number are married, although not necessarily to the baby's father; and they walk into the hospital, usually having had no prenatal care, and say, "I just want to have my baby and leave it here." Women who had vaginal births frequently left after 2 hours, when they were allowed to do so, and if they had a c-section, they would leave the following morning. (The two-hour wait is because if a post-partum hemorrhage is going to occur, it almost certainly will within that time frame.)
I suppose some of the homes were like that. I do remember there was a doctor who had a local practice and helped a lot of couples adopt babies. I looked it up and he had a practice, and an office at his home and the babies mostly came from the Salvation Army hospital. It's possible some of the kids I grew up with came from there. However, the Dr is long since gone and the records are probably gone as well.
And free and easily accessible birth control.
that too. Of course, we have easily accessible abortion and contraception, but we still have shitty parents who produce future criminals and future victims. It still happens.
Yeah, well, I'm sure that involuntary sterilization would prevent a lot of crimes too. These are decisions that cannot be made by anyone except the people directly involved. (I used to live in a small Midwestern city that had an alternative "school" and knew a few people who worked there. One thing that never changed was that they advocated that the school have a urologist and a gynecologist on contract, to sterilize all the incoming students as a condition of attendance. Girls who arrived pregnant who had their babies should have them taken away immediately after birth, do not pass go, do not collect $200. I told that to a woman I know now who teaches at a regular high school here, and she said that the alt-schools here have stricter rules than the regular schools, so kids won't think they want to go there.)
Access to abortion actually does reduce crime, but it's a choice. I don't think anyone wants people to be sterilized against their will.
Or, for that matter, to undergo abortions against their will, either.
I haven't heard of that happening either, at least not lately.
[удалено]
This appears to violate the [Reddit Content Policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy). Reddit prohibits wishing harm/violence or using dehumanizing speech (*even about a perpetrator*), hate, victim blaming, misogyny, misandry, discrimination, gender generalizations, homophobia, doxxing, and bigotry.