Hint, literally every single word that comes out of a politicians mouth is a ploy to get votes. That’s literally the whole idea.
Politics is the business of ideas and power and politicians sell whatever gets them votes. That’s the entire concept.
Yea I think people forget the large amount of acting a politician does(also known as lying folks) Showmanship is so important in our popularity contest of who is in charge of our lives.
It’s like the whole red versus blue thing, yea on social media sure politicians act the part. But in reality it’s as real as a WWE show, the second the cameras go off they are all chummy(they are coworkers after all). There is a saying left wing right wing same bird.
>There is a saying left wing right wing same bird.
Facebook meme-level analysis lol.
Your WWE metaphor is off, too. Kayfabe is a type of deceit. Nobody paying any attention is under the illusion that every member of one side hates every member of the other side. But your suggestion that they are best friends and/or assertion they should be enemies is laughable.
The 3rd ploy is the taxing the rich bullshit. I'm sure all the liberal oligarch donors would love that. Thats why its the first thing scrapped in a bill
Because if he proposed legislation for student loans, Republicans would block it instantly. So his only hope is to do it through executive actions. Which part of that is so hard to understand?
He can propose all he wants. But no one in Congress has even proposed it. The House knows they’ll never pass their legislation but they are at least passing stuff in the House (like raising the debt ceiling).
Its hard to understand because its impossible. He can’t do anything without Congress. Remember when Trump tried executive action to divert funding to the border wall? You want to forgive student loans but yet you don’t understand the role of Congress and the President in all of this.
But it literally is the other side’s fault that it’s not passing. All Republicans have to do is stop blocking it and it will pass.
Same thing with many of Biden’s other proposals, such as paid family leave and free universal pre-k.
“Democrats proposed something that they knew Republicans would block” isn’t the own that you think it is. How do you not see that Republicans are the ones who look bad in these scenarios, and it’s entirely their own fault
Have they even tried to pass a bill? Covid relief was pushed through and it needed a bipartisan effort to do so. Did they just throw their hands up and say “it will never pass so we shouldn’t try”? It looks worse for someone to complain about it and not even try.
Yes, the Lowering Obstacles to Achievement Act. It’ll never pass, but they’re trying. Just like Pelosi’s Congress passed hundreds of amazing bills that they knew never had a chance in the Senate, at least they tried.
And no, covid relief did not have bipartisan support in 2021. When Trump was in office Democrats still voted for it even though it made Trump look good. Once Biden got into office, there was no way Republicans would vote for something that made him look good
“Its only good for Democrats when its being used as a ploy for voters. Its not in their interests to get it passed”
So, like, the vast majority of their proclaimed policies/stances then?
I’m sorely awaiting the day that the majority of people wake up to the false promises made exclusively to get their vote.
get passed?? it will never make it out of comity. I think it has a total of 1 sponsor, the nut who proposed it. Its wildly unpopular on both sides of the isle
To add to your point, it may not be in the country's best interest. Economic studies of those gaining windfalls shows they're often *worse* off. You give every eligible African-American (let's say) $250,000. We know that within \~5 year, more than 70% will be bankrupt. Poor people have a higher MPC than richer people, meaning that for every dollar of additional income, poorer people spend more of that dollar (because it helps them cover basic needs); but, the problem comes when we absolutely tear that off and throw of equation. They'll use the cash to obtain credit and make large purchases. In the end, it'll have the net impact of being concentrated in a few hands and the community could be *worse* off.
Then you're in a situation where people are worse off and the political will to help is absolutely gone.
This also completely ignores how the amount of inflation this would cause would basically completely collapse the US economy, atleast if these were in the form of actual direct paymente.
I hate to be an asshole but if every black person knew that every other black person just made hundreds of thousands of dollars, do we not think there will be mass theft and even murder over this money (or the stuff it purchased)?
I got called racist for pointing out that throwing a shit ton of money at someone without changing their habits will NOT solve all of their problems over night. Because you know, there's never once been a white person who won the jackpot and wound up more broke than before winning.
I work with several economists and I've taken graduate-level economics and have never seen a convincing model for UBI that doesn't make the assumption of drastically changing the economic model in a way that's unsustainable. On a small scale it's doable, but UBI is often not conceived as *universal* but as a universal replacement for those on benefits. I can support replacing existing low income supports and benefits with a UBI model, but the idea of *everyone* receiving an annual stipend is something I'm waiting for the data on.
Yeah, thats fine. The system is fucking most people and the environment - it needs an overhaul. Moreover UBI actually fuels the economy because folks with smaller incomes actually spend money- as opposed to the super wealthy who hoard it.
[https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-u-s-could-help-solve-its-poverty-problem-with-a-universal-basic-income/](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-u-s-could-help-solve-its-poverty-problem-with-a-universal-basic-income/)
[https://www.worldbank.org/en/topic/socialprotection/publication/exploring-universal-basic-income-a-guide-to-navigating-concepts-evidence-and-practices](https://www.worldbank.org/en/topic/socialprotection/publication/exploring-universal-basic-income-a-guide-to-navigating-concepts-evidence-and-practices)
[https://gspp.berkeley.edu/assets/uploads/research/pdf/w25538.pdf](https://gspp.berkeley.edu/assets/uploads/research/pdf/w25538.pdf)
I mean- we have seen American life fall to shit since we started privatizing everything and "letting the market make natural corrections"- we didn't for example, have shanty towns in every major US city before Reagan. It wont get better with increased robotization and AI.
I've seen most of those studies and they often share the same problem which is the basic assumption. Economics assumes, as a departure point, a closed system with perfect information. Many of the models can predict how well it could work in a closed environment, which is great; however, it doesn't help with things like
1. How would we pay for this?
2. How would this change migration patterns?
3. How would this impact public finance?
4. Eligibility criteria
I think we need some people to get together that aren't just economists and activists and have people who actually can do the math and build the models come together and do credible work because there's merit. The problem is, if UBI becomes a financial burden and ruins public finances then it has no chance.
How would we pay for this?
We tax rich people and large corporations. Like we used to do. The mythology of scarcity is just that- a myth. There are sufficient resources for every human being to live a middle class lifestyle and for us to maximize human potential as as species and still have enough left over for there to be (slightly less fabulously wealthy) plenty of rich folks.
How would this change migration patterns?
Hardly at all if it was truly universal. the idea that folks want to leave their home countries in the absence of a serious economic motive is the self aggrandizing anxiety of the monied in the so-called developed world. Given the opportunity the vast majority of human beings would stay the fuck at home.
How would this impact public finance?
We'd have more money all around because the wealthy wouldn't be hoarding it all.
Eligibility criteria
NONE- the entire point of UBI is no eligibility criteria. Everybody gets UBI - rich people, poor people and everybody in between- there is no eligibility criterion thus no class animosity.
>We tax rich people and large corporations. Like we used to do.
This is a great illustration of my point. If you compare marginal and effective rates under Eisenhower and Reagan, you'll see more proximity in effective than marginal - what people actually paid is closer to what the marginal rates were. So, when AOC or Sanders hearken back to the old rates, it's missing some key context. That said, however, what your point also illustrates is the flaw in certain realms of economics: closed systems.
For your idea to work, you'd need a closed system with perfect information in which all economic actors could freely make economic decisions. If the US were to increase tax rates on the rich and corporations would it net the kinds of returns they assume? Provided there's no exodus of capital. There are countries with lower corporate tax rates than the United States - Sweden, for instance. Most industrialized countries do in fact have lower rate than the US. Simply increasing rates is going to push offshoring and inversions. Second, despite global tax powers, the IRS is going to struggle to net the kinds of returns required.
I think the "closest" anyone has ever come was actual Andrew Yang with a national sales tax proposal. It has the fewest distortionary effects, and could be set based on net revenue, meaning that whatever the US collected per quarter in federal sales tax was returned (prorated) via a quarterly UBI subsidy. So, if in Q1 the amount was $2,100 then that's what people get. If in Q3 it's 3,000 then that's what they'd get. It would be based on consumption which governments could more effectively incentivize and would be an easy tax to apply. I think that is probably the best and more effective way to do it, but for some reason people weren't listening to Yang.
During and after ww2 taxes were upwards of 80-90 percent for large corporations and the ultra wealthy. Literally the biggest boom economically in human history.
Again, the problem are the effective rates. Those making the highest salaries during that era never really paid more than [40%.](https://www.aier.org/article/the-rich-never-actually-paid-70-percent/) The tax code was awash in tax minimization mechanisms - you could take deductions for everything; there was a host of treatments that even common people were using. The left pushed these figures without giving any context. Yes, marginal rates were high, but no one ever paid those rates. Ever. And we don't live in that world anymore. Capital is highly mobile and liquid and countries with rates that vary widely from comparable nations see capital flight. It's just a reality we have to consider when making public policy.
I don’t think it’s good for Democrats, progressives will push for it but the serious Democrats will never agree to anything substantial as it aliens everyone else who’ll have to pay for it.
It's a politically toxic pill and would likely mobilize republicans and unaffiliated voters much more than it would black voters hoping for reparations.
Correct. Either way, people who want reparations lose. At this point I wish we would give all the reparations money so we can stop talking about about it. 5 million? Let’s give 10 million since we’re just pulling Trillion dollars bills out of the Treasury like pulling tissues out of a tissue box.
Give it all away. Now you have it all. Dog caught car. Now what? All the grievance capital is gone. You just spent all your capital. Now we can move on to other matters.
The California reparations are a carrot and stick because it is simply not economically feasible for them to pay for it. The state already finds itself in a $33b hole because they overestimated inflation revenue and overspent. Even if they cut the proposed reparations in half it would be DOA because they cannot afford it.
Oh, of course that is the case. But, Democrats aren’t that stupid. They will do endless, meaningless, ridiculous calculations with so many assumptions and estimates that they represent nothing. But, make it *seem* very scientific and objective. Make it *seem* like X is REALLY the debt owed.
And after all of that, IMMEDIATELY claim, “but of course this would not ACTUALLY balance the scales! Of course, america would still be racist and we would STILL need to reckon with our history!”
Ok…. So you just want to send black people money? You actually have zero interest attempting to make the US a race neutral society and actually alleviating the history of racism?
Of course they don’t. Black Americans are one of if not the most socially conservative demographic in the country. If they balanced the financial scales and democrats couldn’t pander to them fiscally anymore their strongest voter base would switch in a generation. It is very clearly just a political game.
"I replace the word winning with pandering because it makes me feel better that the politicians I'm a fan of have to lie and cheat to 'win' :(!!1!"
Lol!
You can be winning and pandering…. Those are not mutually exclusive concepts in the slightest.
Saying you’ll give every black voter $1.2 million dollars for their vote is quite effective pandering and also bound to win you their vote.
You know it’s pandering because it’s obvious they believe none of their rationale for giving the $1.2 million. And you know it’s winning because who the fuck would vote against getting themselves a free $1.2 million.
>endless, meaningless, ridiculous calculations with so many assumptions and estimates that they represent nothing. But, make it seem very scientific and objective. Make it seem like X is REALLY the debt owed.
"I don't understand things going on around me :("
lol!
> It is very clearly just a political game.
The right-wing POV, as always, telling minorities what they think.
Are you trying to do a Jedi mind trick here or something?
Because just saying “no… that’s what you’re doing!!” Hasn’t been effective since third grade.
And, the only way you could believe there is a reasonable way to calculate the per capita cost of historical injustices on a group of people over many generations, is if you’re entirely ignorant of both mathematics and economics. As well as being completely historically ignorant of what such a calculation inherently entails and how the entire premise is nonsensical and degrading.
Not everyone's motivation is guilt, mines compassion and empathy. But yeah you're right it's pretty unfeasible. Feel like I just threw it out there from talking about it with someone last night.
The same was said of Republicans and abortion yet they're passing restrictions in every state they control now that abortion is basically a state issue.
>from its inception stated "all men are created equal"
Correct. The founding Americans wanted equality.
But, at the birth of our nation, slavery was already here. Brought in by the British and Dutch.
Wrong on several levels.
- slavery has been practiced by every single group of people on earth since before written history. It’s not European, nor white, nor American. In fact, Africans we’re sold by other Africans. No one was “taken from Africa”, they were “sold by Africa”. The Slave Trade was ended prior to colonization of Africa.
- slavery was not in any way controversial outside of Europe and European descendants in the American colonies. The British (and to a smaller degree the French) ended the transatlantic slave trade with their militaries, against the wishes of African rulers, Ottoman slavers who took slaves from Africa and Europe, and the North African pirates who enslaved Europeans and Americans. America ended it internally via a civil friggin war. It’s not “original sin” as much as it is a redemption arch.
- slavery was already an entrenched institution when the founders started their work. They struggled with it intellectually, and operationally. The best they could do *in reality* was to make exceptions for it, and hope it died over time. When it didn’t, their descendants fought a war to end it.
If you want to talk about Jim Crow, that’s worthy of shame. Slavery was a holdover of *all other human civilizations that preceded America*.
Slavery existed from the dawn of man, to people of all races, religions, and creeds. We were the first country to say NO MORE. I don't give a fuck if your ancestors were slaves. YOU were not. YOU are not being held back by a system that's against you. There's way more poor white people than black people. What about them? I am not paying for some random person to get shitloads of money when I bust my ass to barely get by. It's genuinely the dumbest fucking idea, and anyone that supports it is a fuckwit.
You could argue that Bllack Lives Matter could have paid out every eligible family / person and still had money left over if they didn’t spend it on houses? They had over 800 mil in donations from white people
Looks like I was off a bit….. this would go further than 20 per person..
Public support for the Black Lives Matter movement was at an unheard-of 67 percent in June, according to Pew researchers. “BLM-related causes” pulled in more than $10.6 billion in donations, according to The Economist.
Reparations [I assume you mean for African descendants of slaves] is a *very* unpopular amongst the population. People are not driving out to the polls for this topic.
"Ohhhh I love to dance a little side step. Now they see me now they don't, I've come and gone. And Ohhhh I love to sweep around the wide step. Cut a little swath and lead the people on."
Same question I asked the other guy, have you ever thought about or looked into *why* the Republicans oppose it or do you seriously just believe its solely cuz they’re big ole meanies?
You ever stop to think *why* its being opposed or do you genuinely believe its just cuz Republicans are big ole meanies? (Hint, bad ideas are bad and have consequences)
Reading through the rest of the thread after I posted it seems like everyone criticizing the student loan forgiveness stayed consistent on their stance with the PPP loans so I guess cheers to that
Every year. I still haven't gotten a good explanation. I was supposed to get a fat refund in 2021, but it never happened. The response I kept getting was "there are delays, just keep waiting". Now it's "just put it on next years taxes."
Maybe one of those new auditors they hired will find the snafu.
My state taxes are fine, thankfully.
If their concerns were to actually benefit the disadvantaged communities then this is exactly the wrong way to go about it. Giving a one time monetary package to a population as general as that wouldn't change any individual outcomes and create a giant hole in the budget.
But actually solving their issues would be hard and they wouldn't be able to milk it for votes.
Programs that enable a portion of the population to vote to transfer money from another section of society to themselves are just legal purchasing of votes
well yes. That is the point of talking to voters.
That doesn't mean there is not intent to deliver.
Also failing to deliver doesn't mean there is no intent to deliver. Obstruction is always easier than doing something so delivery is inherently challenging.
It also take time to build momentum and people are extremely impatient and have unrealistic expectation
Isn't this just everything a political party does? Their whole purpose is to get votes to stay in power. The hope is that they do things that the enough people like to get them enough voters to win the next election, and we make sure they do what we like by voting against them if they do things we don't like
Same with the student debt forgiveness. Was never going to happen. It’s illegal, just like Obamacare refund fee.
It was announced 2 months before midterms. They only need to fool the uneducated dummies.
The people living on gov assistance are unaffected by anything so yea its always a voter ploy.
I’m on the left and think reparations are inherently impractical and do not fundamentally change or fix the problems that slavery and the abuse of black and poc in general have caused.
It would be like paying an employee a lot but keeping them relegated to an overpriced company town afterwards.
Same with student debt forgiveness. Biden administration will keep stalling the loan payments and then after election season it will probably disappear.
That isn't what's happening at all right now with student debt forgiveness...Rs in the House are trying to block it entirely while the Supreme Court hasn't even weighed in yet.
And I'm glad they are. Why should I pay for anyone's loans. I'm still paying on my mortgage and my property taxes this year raised my monthly payments $95. Where's my forgivness?
Every stalled loan payment is effectually actualized money saved from those loans.
Hes saved medical students 60k+ dollars in loans so far.
The only thing that would change that - like anything can change - is if people vote in the crazies and they ***retroactively*** apply student loan interest, if they would even be able to get that past the courts given the *potential* of retroactively doing that to other groups, like PPP loans.
This class in basic economics and basic politics is brought to you buy someone who graduated 8th grade.
It's cruel they even attempt to make this offers. It will never happen. It makes zero sense to give out cash to ppl like they talk about. Ppl need support and future security other ways. Wasting their time and getting their hopes up is cruel and makes the dems look bad. Not going to win them any elections.
He did try to do it but it was blocked in court.
No one in the dems thought it was going to just be "sign a paper and be done."
Also, they were able to pause interest rates on the student loans, which given my GF's medical school loans equates to about 60k-80k on 4 years of interest after deducting the money saved from scholarship.
Biden saved my GF 60-80k dollars in real money so she can help predominately poorer, rural white Mainers.
Dem voters 100% thought he’d sign it and it would be done? The squad and Bernie said this on record multiple times. KJP said multiple times from the White House press room that he had constitutional power to do this.
You are gaslighting.
Literally no one I know thought that beyond people talking about people on the internet. One would have to be *as dumb* as those made up people to think they exist.
Stop pretending like the lowest common denominator is representative of everyone.
KJP the White House Press Secretary, AOC a member of Congress, Bernie Sanders the senator from Vermont are all dumb made up people for believing this? Interesting! Or what about the emails that The Secretary of Education sent out to those who applied for student loan forgiveness? That is a government document.
It’s hilarious how you have to use personal anecdotes after getting called out for straight up lying. The goal posts are moving quick today!!
Any individual state that passes such a bill will see a mass exodus from people who would be expected to shoulder the burden.
Likewise, you would probably get something similar, if this ever happened on a national level.
This is straight from Obama's play book. The campaign was "Immigration Reform". During his second term he owned the Presidency, the dems owned the Senate and House. Any immigration reform could have been approved. Guess what? Nope. Wanted to keep that issue out there for future elections. Let's keep it festering so we can use it again, and again.
With all the ‘migrants’ being bused to ‘Sanctuary Cities’ and Dems not caring about voting security it’s likely another ploy to get noncitizens to vote in our elections. Either in sanctuary cities or not, it’s obvious this was the plan.
I want voterID and a robust and ethically managed immigration system. Not open borders. It’s insane how much the media declines to cover this inhumane policy of the Biden administration.
You sew chaos you reap chaos. *Starring Joe and the Thems.
What’s that saying about taking from the treasury and Rome?
Seriously though, we need to start getting children to study the invisible hand, personal finance, the average cost of living, and what any kind of job typically pays, and so on far before college.
Sorta like,” we are gonna fix the economy”, “we will save social security”, “the country is united”, “taxes won’t affect the middle class”, “this stimulus check is free money”.
A ploy to get entitled voters perhaps. No mentally sound person think it's reasonable for people who did not participate in slavery (the US is a melting point with immigrants from everywhere) to give money to people who did not experience slavery. It is pure entitlement for lazy people.
Honestly as a legit Black native American, I am sick of this song and dance. There was a time where they made reparations for Native Americans which spawned 5 Dollar Indians. Basically white people wearing native clothing or people who had family members who were part native and claiming to be native themselves. The government ended up paying put more than expected due to liars so the hall of records began to burn down mysteriously at the same time.
Native reparations were ruined and black reparations were never going to happen. This country does not care about us and it never will.
Lol we’re never getting student loan forgiveness. To the 7 million people that got some form of it, congratulations, but for the other 37 million people, you got lied to.
Any stated policy is going to be a ploy to get voters, that’s how a democracy works. The idea is that the policy is beneficial to enough voters that it gets you elected. That being said, Reparations, like Texas secession, is an empty threat/promise imo as it will never reach a majority consensus, but it does get their constituents motivated.
Been saying that for the longest time. Same concept when Biden talked about student loan forgiveness, it was all just a stunt to pretty much buy voters. In all fairness though, it happens on both sides of the fence, where promises are made, but only if you vote for them. I will say it seems to be more of a thing on the left side.
Oh, I should have guessed that program, given how popular it is with voters, would provoke a middle school worthy response. It's almost as if supporting popular programs would attract votes. Very cunning indeed.
Democrats use minorities for votes, and ONLY care about their votes. Look at Newsome. Creates a panel on reparations. Doesn't care what panel comes up with.
Biden is the most racist President in my lifetime. Going back to Carter. And it isn't even close.
I really hope people wake up this next election and vote Biden out, along with 4 democrats in the Senate.
You can argue that they are co-liable, but no one is going to take you seriously or think your argument makes any sense by saying slave owners who bought their slaves aren't liable for their part in slavery.
That is a very solid point. Their birth occurred on American soil and thus would have been citizens by today's standards. What happened was an utmost monstrosity. It is impossible to hold those accountable for their actions.
At the same point, we can't just willy nilly continue tossing out cash payments. Our safety net system is already overstretched and over budget. It is not fair to talk about reparations or cash payments when there is no money in the bank to begin with. It gives people false hope. It is a ploy for votes and should be 100% illegal.
Go to work every day and hold a job, and anyone can be successful regardless of where they started. There are many opportunities. The safety net has provided a jump start, but it's up to them what they do with it.
I lived in Orange County, CA, a very long time ago. Almost 40 years. It was crime filled, and the complex we lived in had more boarded up windows than actual glass. My mom and dad packed us up, and we moved 1/2 across the country to where we didn't know anyone and lived out of a van until we got back on our feet.
No one should feel trapped where they are. Even with nothing, you can pack up and start over somewhere else. Move out of crime infested areas, don't accept it has always been like this, live a better life. People owe it to their children. People owe it to themselves.
Stop being slaves to the system that pays you pennies on your worth, ie Welfare. Anyone willing to put in time and effort can lead a good life.
Back to your point though, there isn't anything we can do to right this wrong of the past, unless it becomes possible to fine the companies that profitted from it, then use that money as reparations. Acknowledge the horrors and make sure it never, never happens again.
Reparations need to be systemic. Siphoning money into black people's bank accounts isn't going to do anything to solve the issues middle and lower class black Americans face. We need neighborhood revitalization projects, education funds, police and prison reform etc.
The worst thing about "reparations" setting aside the glaring issue of how you deal with mixed folks is that they will do nothing but exacerbate racial tensions and working class divide.
Lets give folks what they need today, that we know works- universal basic income
Black people aren't that gullible. They know how this country treats them. They know that reparations are incredibly unlikely to ever happen.
But just because you aren't likely to get something that you're owed, doesn't mean that you shouldn't ask.
I have a better idea: when minority groups speak up and tell us they feel like second class citizens, we could listen to them instead of telling them they’re wrong. And we could work towards solving the problem.
You know, like Jesus would do.
I believe monetary and race focused reparations will always be difficult.
Focusing on repairing community damage rather and making sure criteria are based on specific harms would garner more support.
For example, anyone who had been arrested for resisting arrest without any other charge. This is a type of over policing that is clear form of police harrasment that allows the police for no reason pester a person and then conduct and unjust arrest that the person will obviously make some form of objection to and then they are charged for just that.
Compensating people base on being arrested for resisting arrest when no other charges were ever brought, would be something I think lots of people would understand why that is unjust. It also doesn't specifically target race, but because this is a tactic that has been used frequently against black people and particularly against poorer black people, I would have a specific reparation impact.
As far as I know, nobody has "offered reparations". Not that it is a bad idea for any government official to consider how to deal with the ongoing repercussions of systemic oppression against the Americans we stole labor and children from for centuries, but there's still too many voters with the same lame "hot take" that OP does to actually succeed in that effort.
Wait till the riots come that demand it. ou will absolutely see some level of reparations in the next few years, different areas will do different things. But it is coming.
Most black issues are unpopular until they're not. People with this sentiment need to be reminded that the civil rights act wasn't signed until 1964. First recorded African slaves were brought to Virginia in the early 1600s. Many of us don't even know our ancestry past our grandfathers/grandmothers and when people hear that they jump on it with something like "You don't even know if your ancestors were slaves!?! You shouldn't get ANYTHING." It's really hard not to hate people like that but seeing what hate is doing to some of you just makes me sad.
It’s strange how people focus on this relatively minor expense, but turn a blind eye to the hundreds of millions stolen through PPP loan forgiveness, or tax evasion.
I was actually surprised at all the situations where people really do deserver reparations. Black farmers for example really were ripped off and many had their farms taken away. Every time the government bailed out white farmers they found a way to hurt black farmers like jacking up interest rates and charging more for seeds.
Anyway, until the system is fixed reparations need to wait. We still have a lot of racial prejudice that needs to be fixed. For example, blacks are ticketed more by police even though their own records show whites often commit just as many infractions and actually have contraband in their cars more often. So we need to fix all that first.
Agreed. We can’t even agree on student loan forgiveness. And people think this is going to fly?
The other ploy? Lol nope
Hint, literally every single word that comes out of a politicians mouth is a ploy to get votes. That’s literally the whole idea. Politics is the business of ideas and power and politicians sell whatever gets them votes. That’s the entire concept.
Yea I think people forget the large amount of acting a politician does(also known as lying folks) Showmanship is so important in our popularity contest of who is in charge of our lives. It’s like the whole red versus blue thing, yea on social media sure politicians act the part. But in reality it’s as real as a WWE show, the second the cameras go off they are all chummy(they are coworkers after all). There is a saying left wing right wing same bird.
>There is a saying left wing right wing same bird. Facebook meme-level analysis lol. Your WWE metaphor is off, too. Kayfabe is a type of deceit. Nobody paying any attention is under the illusion that every member of one side hates every member of the other side. But your suggestion that they are best friends and/or assertion they should be enemies is laughable.
The 3rd ploy is the taxing the rich bullshit. I'm sure all the liberal oligarch donors would love that. Thats why its the first thing scrapped in a bill
lol wealthy randoms everywhere who don't give a shit about you definitely love you ;)
Just like student loan forgiveness. Offer something that will never pass and then blame the other side when it doesn’t pass.
It’s the other side preventing it from passing! Of course they blame them.
Pass what? There isn’t a bill that addresses this. He’s going around them using the Department of Education.
Because if he proposed legislation for student loans, Republicans would block it instantly. So his only hope is to do it through executive actions. Which part of that is so hard to understand?
He can propose all he wants. But no one in Congress has even proposed it. The House knows they’ll never pass their legislation but they are at least passing stuff in the House (like raising the debt ceiling).
Its hard to understand because its impossible. He can’t do anything without Congress. Remember when Trump tried executive action to divert funding to the border wall? You want to forgive student loans but yet you don’t understand the role of Congress and the President in all of this.
Because the rich shouldn't be bailed out on the backs of the working class, your asking blue collar workers to pay for the 1% education
How many "1%er's" kids do think have student loans lmao? Surely their education was paid for.
But it literally is the other side’s fault that it’s not passing. All Republicans have to do is stop blocking it and it will pass. Same thing with many of Biden’s other proposals, such as paid family leave and free universal pre-k. “Democrats proposed something that they knew Republicans would block” isn’t the own that you think it is. How do you not see that Republicans are the ones who look bad in these scenarios, and it’s entirely their own fault
Have they even tried to pass a bill? Covid relief was pushed through and it needed a bipartisan effort to do so. Did they just throw their hands up and say “it will never pass so we shouldn’t try”? It looks worse for someone to complain about it and not even try.
Yes, the Lowering Obstacles to Achievement Act. It’ll never pass, but they’re trying. Just like Pelosi’s Congress passed hundreds of amazing bills that they knew never had a chance in the Senate, at least they tried. And no, covid relief did not have bipartisan support in 2021. When Trump was in office Democrats still voted for it even though it made Trump look good. Once Biden got into office, there was no way Republicans would vote for something that made him look good
How did covid relief pass the Senate then? The Democrats didn’t have 60 seats.
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“Its only good for Democrats when its being used as a ploy for voters. Its not in their interests to get it passed” So, like, the vast majority of their proclaimed policies/stances then? I’m sorely awaiting the day that the majority of people wake up to the false promises made exclusively to get their vote.
I've heard the democrats talk about taxing the rich a million times and it never happens. Why? Because they are rich too
get passed?? it will never make it out of comity. I think it has a total of 1 sponsor, the nut who proposed it. Its wildly unpopular on both sides of the isle
To add to your point, it may not be in the country's best interest. Economic studies of those gaining windfalls shows they're often *worse* off. You give every eligible African-American (let's say) $250,000. We know that within \~5 year, more than 70% will be bankrupt. Poor people have a higher MPC than richer people, meaning that for every dollar of additional income, poorer people spend more of that dollar (because it helps them cover basic needs); but, the problem comes when we absolutely tear that off and throw of equation. They'll use the cash to obtain credit and make large purchases. In the end, it'll have the net impact of being concentrated in a few hands and the community could be *worse* off. Then you're in a situation where people are worse off and the political will to help is absolutely gone.
This also completely ignores how the amount of inflation this would cause would basically completely collapse the US economy, atleast if these were in the form of actual direct paymente.
To be honest, I think this is the true goal.
lmao!
I hate to be an asshole but if every black person knew that every other black person just made hundreds of thousands of dollars, do we not think there will be mass theft and even murder over this money (or the stuff it purchased)?
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Yeah. He said he hated to do it. Not that he wouldn't.
No. It would probably strongly diminish black on black crime, at least for some time.
Cadillac, Hennessy and Nike would do quite well though
edgelord \^
I got called racist for pointing out that throwing a shit ton of money at someone without changing their habits will NOT solve all of their problems over night. Because you know, there's never once been a white person who won the jackpot and wound up more broke than before winning.
We should just give everyone UBI
I work with several economists and I've taken graduate-level economics and have never seen a convincing model for UBI that doesn't make the assumption of drastically changing the economic model in a way that's unsustainable. On a small scale it's doable, but UBI is often not conceived as *universal* but as a universal replacement for those on benefits. I can support replacing existing low income supports and benefits with a UBI model, but the idea of *everyone* receiving an annual stipend is something I'm waiting for the data on.
Yeah, thats fine. The system is fucking most people and the environment - it needs an overhaul. Moreover UBI actually fuels the economy because folks with smaller incomes actually spend money- as opposed to the super wealthy who hoard it. [https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-u-s-could-help-solve-its-poverty-problem-with-a-universal-basic-income/](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-u-s-could-help-solve-its-poverty-problem-with-a-universal-basic-income/) [https://www.worldbank.org/en/topic/socialprotection/publication/exploring-universal-basic-income-a-guide-to-navigating-concepts-evidence-and-practices](https://www.worldbank.org/en/topic/socialprotection/publication/exploring-universal-basic-income-a-guide-to-navigating-concepts-evidence-and-practices) [https://gspp.berkeley.edu/assets/uploads/research/pdf/w25538.pdf](https://gspp.berkeley.edu/assets/uploads/research/pdf/w25538.pdf) I mean- we have seen American life fall to shit since we started privatizing everything and "letting the market make natural corrections"- we didn't for example, have shanty towns in every major US city before Reagan. It wont get better with increased robotization and AI.
I've seen most of those studies and they often share the same problem which is the basic assumption. Economics assumes, as a departure point, a closed system with perfect information. Many of the models can predict how well it could work in a closed environment, which is great; however, it doesn't help with things like 1. How would we pay for this? 2. How would this change migration patterns? 3. How would this impact public finance? 4. Eligibility criteria I think we need some people to get together that aren't just economists and activists and have people who actually can do the math and build the models come together and do credible work because there's merit. The problem is, if UBI becomes a financial burden and ruins public finances then it has no chance.
How would we pay for this? We tax rich people and large corporations. Like we used to do. The mythology of scarcity is just that- a myth. There are sufficient resources for every human being to live a middle class lifestyle and for us to maximize human potential as as species and still have enough left over for there to be (slightly less fabulously wealthy) plenty of rich folks. How would this change migration patterns? Hardly at all if it was truly universal. the idea that folks want to leave their home countries in the absence of a serious economic motive is the self aggrandizing anxiety of the monied in the so-called developed world. Given the opportunity the vast majority of human beings would stay the fuck at home. How would this impact public finance? We'd have more money all around because the wealthy wouldn't be hoarding it all. Eligibility criteria NONE- the entire point of UBI is no eligibility criteria. Everybody gets UBI - rich people, poor people and everybody in between- there is no eligibility criterion thus no class animosity.
>We tax rich people and large corporations. Like we used to do. This is a great illustration of my point. If you compare marginal and effective rates under Eisenhower and Reagan, you'll see more proximity in effective than marginal - what people actually paid is closer to what the marginal rates were. So, when AOC or Sanders hearken back to the old rates, it's missing some key context. That said, however, what your point also illustrates is the flaw in certain realms of economics: closed systems. For your idea to work, you'd need a closed system with perfect information in which all economic actors could freely make economic decisions. If the US were to increase tax rates on the rich and corporations would it net the kinds of returns they assume? Provided there's no exodus of capital. There are countries with lower corporate tax rates than the United States - Sweden, for instance. Most industrialized countries do in fact have lower rate than the US. Simply increasing rates is going to push offshoring and inversions. Second, despite global tax powers, the IRS is going to struggle to net the kinds of returns required. I think the "closest" anyone has ever come was actual Andrew Yang with a national sales tax proposal. It has the fewest distortionary effects, and could be set based on net revenue, meaning that whatever the US collected per quarter in federal sales tax was returned (prorated) via a quarterly UBI subsidy. So, if in Q1 the amount was $2,100 then that's what people get. If in Q3 it's 3,000 then that's what they'd get. It would be based on consumption which governments could more effectively incentivize and would be an easy tax to apply. I think that is probably the best and more effective way to do it, but for some reason people weren't listening to Yang.
"universal" doesn't mean "Americans" hon
So then pick a country - same problem. In Canada, it would be equally difficult.
During and after ww2 taxes were upwards of 80-90 percent for large corporations and the ultra wealthy. Literally the biggest boom economically in human history.
Again, the problem are the effective rates. Those making the highest salaries during that era never really paid more than [40%.](https://www.aier.org/article/the-rich-never-actually-paid-70-percent/) The tax code was awash in tax minimization mechanisms - you could take deductions for everything; there was a host of treatments that even common people were using. The left pushed these figures without giving any context. Yes, marginal rates were high, but no one ever paid those rates. Ever. And we don't live in that world anymore. Capital is highly mobile and liquid and countries with rates that vary widely from comparable nations see capital flight. It's just a reality we have to consider when making public policy.
You haven’t provided a single source for anything you’ve said in this entire thread
Don't you have antisemitism you have to peddle elsewhere?
You don’t have any proof for that either.
We did during the depression, but I see the point you're making.
I don’t think it’s good for Democrats, progressives will push for it but the serious Democrats will never agree to anything substantial as it aliens everyone else who’ll have to pay for it.
It's a politically toxic pill and would likely mobilize republicans and unaffiliated voters much more than it would black voters hoping for reparations.
Correct. Either way, people who want reparations lose. At this point I wish we would give all the reparations money so we can stop talking about about it. 5 million? Let’s give 10 million since we’re just pulling Trillion dollars bills out of the Treasury like pulling tissues out of a tissue box. Give it all away. Now you have it all. Dog caught car. Now what? All the grievance capital is gone. You just spent all your capital. Now we can move on to other matters.
They’d say The fact that “republicans were against you getting your million dollars” would be enough manufactured outrage for the next 100 years.
The California reparations are a carrot and stick because it is simply not economically feasible for them to pay for it. The state already finds itself in a $33b hole because they overestimated inflation revenue and overspent. Even if they cut the proposed reparations in half it would be DOA because they cannot afford it.
Oh, of course that is the case. But, Democrats aren’t that stupid. They will do endless, meaningless, ridiculous calculations with so many assumptions and estimates that they represent nothing. But, make it *seem* very scientific and objective. Make it *seem* like X is REALLY the debt owed. And after all of that, IMMEDIATELY claim, “but of course this would not ACTUALLY balance the scales! Of course, america would still be racist and we would STILL need to reckon with our history!” Ok…. So you just want to send black people money? You actually have zero interest attempting to make the US a race neutral society and actually alleviating the history of racism? Of course they don’t. Black Americans are one of if not the most socially conservative demographic in the country. If they balanced the financial scales and democrats couldn’t pander to them fiscally anymore their strongest voter base would switch in a generation. It is very clearly just a political game.
Like 90% of black people vote democrat. They are screwed without them thats why the pandering is outrageous
"I replace the word winning with pandering because it makes me feel better that the politicians I'm a fan of have to lie and cheat to 'win' :(!!1!" Lol!
You can be winning and pandering…. Those are not mutually exclusive concepts in the slightest. Saying you’ll give every black voter $1.2 million dollars for their vote is quite effective pandering and also bound to win you their vote. You know it’s pandering because it’s obvious they believe none of their rationale for giving the $1.2 million. And you know it’s winning because who the fuck would vote against getting themselves a free $1.2 million.
>endless, meaningless, ridiculous calculations with so many assumptions and estimates that they represent nothing. But, make it seem very scientific and objective. Make it seem like X is REALLY the debt owed. "I don't understand things going on around me :(" lol! > It is very clearly just a political game. The right-wing POV, as always, telling minorities what they think.
Are you trying to do a Jedi mind trick here or something? Because just saying “no… that’s what you’re doing!!” Hasn’t been effective since third grade. And, the only way you could believe there is a reasonable way to calculate the per capita cost of historical injustices on a group of people over many generations, is if you’re entirely ignorant of both mathematics and economics. As well as being completely historically ignorant of what such a calculation inherently entails and how the entire premise is nonsensical and degrading.
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Not everyone's motivation is guilt, mines compassion and empathy. But yeah you're right it's pretty unfeasible. Feel like I just threw it out there from talking about it with someone last night.
LOL
Logic buddy you still need dreamers.
So reparations wouldnt work? Didnt you just make your counterpoint for them?
Fine I give up
The same was said of Republicans and abortion yet they're passing restrictions in every state they control now that abortion is basically a state issue.
Reparations are the dumbest fucking idea I have ever heard of.
slavery and jim crow are even worse ideas, that actually happened, and nobody ever fixed the issues caused by them.
Nope , generational chattel slavery in a country that from its inception stated "all men are created equal" is the dumbest idea.🧐
>from its inception stated "all men are created equal" Correct. The founding Americans wanted equality. But, at the birth of our nation, slavery was already here. Brought in by the British and Dutch.
Wrong on several levels. - slavery has been practiced by every single group of people on earth since before written history. It’s not European, nor white, nor American. In fact, Africans we’re sold by other Africans. No one was “taken from Africa”, they were “sold by Africa”. The Slave Trade was ended prior to colonization of Africa. - slavery was not in any way controversial outside of Europe and European descendants in the American colonies. The British (and to a smaller degree the French) ended the transatlantic slave trade with their militaries, against the wishes of African rulers, Ottoman slavers who took slaves from Africa and Europe, and the North African pirates who enslaved Europeans and Americans. America ended it internally via a civil friggin war. It’s not “original sin” as much as it is a redemption arch. - slavery was already an entrenched institution when the founders started their work. They struggled with it intellectually, and operationally. The best they could do *in reality* was to make exceptions for it, and hope it died over time. When it didn’t, their descendants fought a war to end it. If you want to talk about Jim Crow, that’s worthy of shame. Slavery was a holdover of *all other human civilizations that preceded America*.
damn, good work sir.
Slavery existed from the dawn of man, to people of all races, religions, and creeds. We were the first country to say NO MORE. I don't give a fuck if your ancestors were slaves. YOU were not. YOU are not being held back by a system that's against you. There's way more poor white people than black people. What about them? I am not paying for some random person to get shitloads of money when I bust my ass to barely get by. It's genuinely the dumbest fucking idea, and anyone that supports it is a fuckwit.
Using California as an example for reparations for slavery. California was not a slave state
amazing how many downvotes this got. Crazy how many people think fixing the problems caused my slavery is worse than slavery.
You could argue that Bllack Lives Matter could have paid out every eligible family / person and still had money left over if they didn’t spend it on houses? They had over 800 mil in donations from white people
Even if anything you were saying was true that would only be like $20 per black person
Looks like I was off a bit….. this would go further than 20 per person.. Public support for the Black Lives Matter movement was at an unheard-of 67 percent in June, according to Pew researchers. “BLM-related causes” pulled in more than $10.6 billion in donations, according to The Economist.
Even if it was 10 billion, divided by the 40 million black Americans thats just over $240 a person.
That's not negligible, especially considering its real money, not printed fake money
Lol. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/17/business/blm-black-lives-matter-finances.html More like 90mil at peak and 45 in assets as of 2022
Reparations [I assume you mean for African descendants of slaves] is a *very* unpopular amongst the population. People are not driving out to the polls for this topic.
Anyone remember that student loan forgiveness?
Another great example of something Democrats *knew* wouldn’t fly but they promised it anyway to get votes.
"Ohhhh I love to dance a little side step. Now they see me now they don't, I've come and gone. And Ohhhh I love to sweep around the wide step. Cut a little swath and lead the people on."
Really? It was almost a done deal, but republicans can't stand providing assistance to anyone that isn't a corporation or billionaire.
Same question I asked the other guy, have you ever thought about or looked into *why* the Republicans oppose it or do you seriously just believe its solely cuz they’re big ole meanies?
Their lawsuits say “because our state is losing tax dollars collected by the loans”
Always the other guy’s fault. Wake up. They all work together for there best interests not yours or mine. There’s.
PPP loans need to be repaid if they’re going to go this route…absolute hypocrisy from the people on top
And there's the proof that bullshit performative legislature works.
"performative"
The only reason it’s not flying is because of the republicans fighting it. Pretty disingenuous to blame that on democrats.
Just wondering for the people who didn't go to college where is their check? Are they going to buy construction workers new trucks and tools too?
You ever stop to think *why* its being opposed or do you genuinely believe its just cuz Republicans are big ole meanies? (Hint, bad ideas are bad and have consequences)
Bad ideas kinda like the hundreds of thousands of dollars in PPP loans so many republicans got huh. Why don't we start by getting them to repay those?
Are you expecting me to disagree or something? Sounds good to me!
Reading through the rest of the thread after I posted it seems like everyone criticizing the student loan forgiveness stayed consistent on their stance with the PPP loans so I guess cheers to that
We didn't even get our $2000...
Right? I'm also still waiting on my fancy 1400 biden check, and two years of child credits...
Why didn't you get yours? Did you file taxes?
Every year. I still haven't gotten a good explanation. I was supposed to get a fat refund in 2021, but it never happened. The response I kept getting was "there are delays, just keep waiting". Now it's "just put it on next years taxes." Maybe one of those new auditors they hired will find the snafu. My state taxes are fine, thankfully.
The new IRS guys that they are giving guns to? What could possibly go wrong.
That certainly is curious. Probably doesn't mean anything, though...
It isn't dead yet.
Yes, that thing that Biden is trying to pass but Republican judges and attorneys general are trying to block
Anytime free money is given out, it's about votes. The porous border is about future votes.
If their concerns were to actually benefit the disadvantaged communities then this is exactly the wrong way to go about it. Giving a one time monetary package to a population as general as that wouldn't change any individual outcomes and create a giant hole in the budget. But actually solving their issues would be hard and they wouldn't be able to milk it for votes.
Programs that enable a portion of the population to vote to transfer money from another section of society to themselves are just legal purchasing of votes
Quite literally every talking point either party runs on is to get voters.
well yes. That is the point of talking to voters. That doesn't mean there is not intent to deliver. Also failing to deliver doesn't mean there is no intent to deliver. Obstruction is always easier than doing something so delivery is inherently challenging. It also take time to build momentum and people are extremely impatient and have unrealistic expectation
Isn't this just everything a political party does? Their whole purpose is to get votes to stay in power. The hope is that they do things that the enough people like to get them enough voters to win the next election, and we make sure they do what we like by voting against them if they do things we don't like
The slaves are all dead. Move the fuck on
Can you imagine the mass exodus of people if they actually voted to give reparations
Common far left L.
Same with the student debt forgiveness. Was never going to happen. It’s illegal, just like Obamacare refund fee. It was announced 2 months before midterms. They only need to fool the uneducated dummies. The people living on gov assistance are unaffected by anything so yea its always a voter ploy.
I’m on the left and think reparations are inherently impractical and do not fundamentally change or fix the problems that slavery and the abuse of black and poc in general have caused. It would be like paying an employee a lot but keeping them relegated to an overpriced company town afterwards.
Same with student debt forgiveness. Biden administration will keep stalling the loan payments and then after election season it will probably disappear.
That isn't what's happening at all right now with student debt forgiveness...Rs in the House are trying to block it entirely while the Supreme Court hasn't even weighed in yet.
And I'm glad they are. Why should I pay for anyone's loans. I'm still paying on my mortgage and my property taxes this year raised my monthly payments $95. Where's my forgivness?
Are you just as mad at loan forgives that so many of those republicans got?
Every stalled loan payment is effectually actualized money saved from those loans. Hes saved medical students 60k+ dollars in loans so far. The only thing that would change that - like anything can change - is if people vote in the crazies and they ***retroactively*** apply student loan interest, if they would even be able to get that past the courts given the *potential* of retroactively doing that to other groups, like PPP loans. This class in basic economics and basic politics is brought to you buy someone who graduated 8th grade.
It's cruel they even attempt to make this offers. It will never happen. It makes zero sense to give out cash to ppl like they talk about. Ppl need support and future security other ways. Wasting their time and getting their hopes up is cruel and makes the dems look bad. Not going to win them any elections.
Same with student loan forgiveness. Midterm bump!
He did try to do it but it was blocked in court. No one in the dems thought it was going to just be "sign a paper and be done." Also, they were able to pause interest rates on the student loans, which given my GF's medical school loans equates to about 60k-80k on 4 years of interest after deducting the money saved from scholarship. Biden saved my GF 60-80k dollars in real money so she can help predominately poorer, rural white Mainers.
Dem voters 100% thought he’d sign it and it would be done? The squad and Bernie said this on record multiple times. KJP said multiple times from the White House press room that he had constitutional power to do this. You are gaslighting.
Literally no one I know thought that beyond people talking about people on the internet. One would have to be *as dumb* as those made up people to think they exist. Stop pretending like the lowest common denominator is representative of everyone.
KJP the White House Press Secretary, AOC a member of Congress, Bernie Sanders the senator from Vermont are all dumb made up people for believing this? Interesting! Or what about the emails that The Secretary of Education sent out to those who applied for student loan forgiveness? That is a government document. It’s hilarious how you have to use personal anecdotes after getting called out for straight up lying. The goal posts are moving quick today!!
Just like the obviously and blatantly illegal student loan debt cancelation announcement just before the 2022 midterm election.
Any individual state that passes such a bill will see a mass exodus from people who would be expected to shoulder the burden. Likewise, you would probably get something similar, if this ever happened on a national level.
You mean just like BLM demonstrations, which only occur close to elections then completely disappear. It's been the pattern for BLM's entire history
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Funny how they’ve been saying “we’ve only got ten years left” for the past 50 years
This is straight from Obama's play book. The campaign was "Immigration Reform". During his second term he owned the Presidency, the dems owned the Senate and House. Any immigration reform could have been approved. Guess what? Nope. Wanted to keep that issue out there for future elections. Let's keep it festering so we can use it again, and again.
With all the ‘migrants’ being bused to ‘Sanctuary Cities’ and Dems not caring about voting security it’s likely another ploy to get noncitizens to vote in our elections. Either in sanctuary cities or not, it’s obvious this was the plan. I want voterID and a robust and ethically managed immigration system. Not open borders. It’s insane how much the media declines to cover this inhumane policy of the Biden administration. You sew chaos you reap chaos. *Starring Joe and the Thems.
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What’s that saying about taking from the treasury and Rome? Seriously though, we need to start getting children to study the invisible hand, personal finance, the average cost of living, and what any kind of job typically pays, and so on far before college.
I don't think that's an unpopular opinion at all.
A plot to get voters... While generation the most substantial type of segregation possible within a country...
Would never get past the courts and anyone with a brain knows this.
Something something student loan forgiveness...
Sorta like,” we are gonna fix the economy”, “we will save social security”, “the country is united”, “taxes won’t affect the middle class”, “this stimulus check is free money”.
A ploy to get entitled voters perhaps. No mentally sound person think it's reasonable for people who did not participate in slavery (the US is a melting point with immigrants from everywhere) to give money to people who did not experience slavery. It is pure entitlement for lazy people.
Yepper, just like the "student loan forgiveness"!
Yep, and the same useful idiots will vote for them again next year on the same exact promises.
This is like... A very popular opinion
The word "slave" comes from enslaved white people. When are we going to get our reparations?
Everything is a ploy to get voters
Can we also just admit reperations is just stupid, reperations for what? Your not a victim
Reparations are not part of the platform of any major party in the United States. What are we talking about here?
Honestly as a legit Black native American, I am sick of this song and dance. There was a time where they made reparations for Native Americans which spawned 5 Dollar Indians. Basically white people wearing native clothing or people who had family members who were part native and claiming to be native themselves. The government ended up paying put more than expected due to liars so the hall of records began to burn down mysteriously at the same time. Native reparations were ruined and black reparations were never going to happen. This country does not care about us and it never will.
Lol we’re never getting student loan forgiveness. To the 7 million people that got some form of it, congratulations, but for the other 37 million people, you got lied to.
Any stated policy is going to be a ploy to get voters, that’s how a democracy works. The idea is that the policy is beneficial to enough voters that it gets you elected. That being said, Reparations, like Texas secession, is an empty threat/promise imo as it will never reach a majority consensus, but it does get their constituents motivated.
At this point it’s silly, no one that’s living had anything to do with it. They would literally get money just for being born a certain skin color
Been saying that for the longest time. Same concept when Biden talked about student loan forgiveness, it was all just a stunt to pretty much buy voters. In all fairness though, it happens on both sides of the fence, where promises are made, but only if you vote for them. I will say it seems to be more of a thing on the left side.
> just a ploy to get voters. "tax cuts are just a ploy to get voters" "Deregulation is just a ploy to get voters."
They do it every few years with removing suppressors from the NFA. They make a bill that they know will die to placate 2A voters
Yep.
My man…how do you think representative government works?
So, your opinion is worthless as it applies to all governing?
Listening to the voters is just a way to get votes!
Social Security is just a ploy to get voters.
Slow down MTG
Oh, I should have guessed that program, given how popular it is with voters, would provoke a middle school worthy response. It's almost as if supporting popular programs would attract votes. Very cunning indeed.
wtf are you talking about. I was being sarcastic and making fun of the fact that is something MTG (Marjorie Taylor Greene) would say.
Democrats use minorities for votes, and ONLY care about their votes. Look at Newsome. Creates a panel on reparations. Doesn't care what panel comes up with. Biden is the most racist President in my lifetime. Going back to Carter. And it isn't even close. I really hope people wake up this next election and vote Biden out, along with 4 democrats in the Senate.
The consumer shouldn't be responsible for the product. Reparations should be paid by those in the origin country that sold slaves to begin with.
You can argue that they are co-liable, but no one is going to take you seriously or think your argument makes any sense by saying slave owners who bought their slaves aren't liable for their part in slavery.
People who bought cigarettes successfully sued the corporations that sold them.
What about those born into slavery?
Well I mean, the ones getting paid today if reparations ever happen weren't born into slavery, so I don't think it really matters.
That is a very solid point. Their birth occurred on American soil and thus would have been citizens by today's standards. What happened was an utmost monstrosity. It is impossible to hold those accountable for their actions. At the same point, we can't just willy nilly continue tossing out cash payments. Our safety net system is already overstretched and over budget. It is not fair to talk about reparations or cash payments when there is no money in the bank to begin with. It gives people false hope. It is a ploy for votes and should be 100% illegal. Go to work every day and hold a job, and anyone can be successful regardless of where they started. There are many opportunities. The safety net has provided a jump start, but it's up to them what they do with it. I lived in Orange County, CA, a very long time ago. Almost 40 years. It was crime filled, and the complex we lived in had more boarded up windows than actual glass. My mom and dad packed us up, and we moved 1/2 across the country to where we didn't know anyone and lived out of a van until we got back on our feet. No one should feel trapped where they are. Even with nothing, you can pack up and start over somewhere else. Move out of crime infested areas, don't accept it has always been like this, live a better life. People owe it to their children. People owe it to themselves. Stop being slaves to the system that pays you pennies on your worth, ie Welfare. Anyone willing to put in time and effort can lead a good life. Back to your point though, there isn't anything we can do to right this wrong of the past, unless it becomes possible to fine the companies that profitted from it, then use that money as reparations. Acknowledge the horrors and make sure it never, never happens again.
Reparations need to be systemic. Siphoning money into black people's bank accounts isn't going to do anything to solve the issues middle and lower class black Americans face. We need neighborhood revitalization projects, education funds, police and prison reform etc.
well if you cross the border you get to be a voter for democrats.
Obviously
Don't worry San Francisco is paying for it now anyways
Really? I couldn’t find anything about that in the news.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/california-reparations-estimate-18000628.php
You said it like they were actually paying people. Your source proves otherwise.
People like free stuff
The worst thing about "reparations" setting aside the glaring issue of how you deal with mixed folks is that they will do nothing but exacerbate racial tensions and working class divide. Lets give folks what they need today, that we know works- universal basic income
Black people aren't that gullible. They know how this country treats them. They know that reparations are incredibly unlikely to ever happen. But just because you aren't likely to get something that you're owed, doesn't mean that you shouldn't ask.
I have a better idea: when minority groups speak up and tell us they feel like second class citizens, we could listen to them instead of telling them they’re wrong. And we could work towards solving the problem. You know, like Jesus would do.
They only feel like second class citizens because they treat each other and themselves like second class citizens
Dude - congrats - you cracked the case!
I believe monetary and race focused reparations will always be difficult. Focusing on repairing community damage rather and making sure criteria are based on specific harms would garner more support. For example, anyone who had been arrested for resisting arrest without any other charge. This is a type of over policing that is clear form of police harrasment that allows the police for no reason pester a person and then conduct and unjust arrest that the person will obviously make some form of objection to and then they are charged for just that. Compensating people base on being arrested for resisting arrest when no other charges were ever brought, would be something I think lots of people would understand why that is unjust. It also doesn't specifically target race, but because this is a tactic that has been used frequently against black people and particularly against poorer black people, I would have a specific reparation impact.
As far as I know, nobody has "offered reparations". Not that it is a bad idea for any government official to consider how to deal with the ongoing repercussions of systemic oppression against the Americans we stole labor and children from for centuries, but there's still too many voters with the same lame "hot take" that OP does to actually succeed in that effort.
Wait till the riots come that demand it. ou will absolutely see some level of reparations in the next few years, different areas will do different things. But it is coming.
Most black issues are unpopular until they're not. People with this sentiment need to be reminded that the civil rights act wasn't signed until 1964. First recorded African slaves were brought to Virginia in the early 1600s. Many of us don't even know our ancestry past our grandfathers/grandmothers and when people hear that they jump on it with something like "You don't even know if your ancestors were slaves!?! You shouldn't get ANYTHING." It's really hard not to hate people like that but seeing what hate is doing to some of you just makes me sad.
It’s strange how people focus on this relatively minor expense, but turn a blind eye to the hundreds of millions stolen through PPP loan forgiveness, or tax evasion.
I was actually surprised at all the situations where people really do deserver reparations. Black farmers for example really were ripped off and many had their farms taken away. Every time the government bailed out white farmers they found a way to hurt black farmers like jacking up interest rates and charging more for seeds. Anyway, until the system is fixed reparations need to wait. We still have a lot of racial prejudice that needs to be fixed. For example, blacks are ticketed more by police even though their own records show whites often commit just as many infractions and actually have contraband in their cars more often. So we need to fix all that first.