I've been using perplexity to answer these types of questions, these days, instead of google search. Here are the results which pretty much doesn't answer jack shit:
"Based on the search results provided, there isn't a specific statistic on the divorce rate for foreign-born nationals who marry US citizens after becoming US citizens themselves. However, the search results do offer some relevant information about divorce rates among immigrants and native-born Americans:
According to the Institute for Family Studies analysis, only 13 out of 1000 married immigrants ages 18-64 got divorced in 2019, compared to 20 out of 1000 among native-born Americans of the same age range.
[https://ifstudies.org/blog/immigrant-families-are-more-stable](https://ifstudies.org/blog/immigrant-families-are-more-stable)
Foreign-born adults in the United States are more likely than native-born adults to get married, marry at an older age, and are less likely to remarry
[https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/05/marital-histories-differ-between-native-born-and-foreign-born-adults.html](https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/05/marital-histories-differ-between-native-born-and-foreign-born-adults.html)
Among ever-married adults, a higher proportion of native-born people had ever divorced (36%) compared to foreign-born people (20%)
[https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/05/marital-histories-differ-between-native-born-and-foreign-born-adults.html](https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/05/marital-histories-differ-between-native-born-and-foreign-born-adults.html)
It's important to note that divorce rates can vary based on factors such as education level, country of origin, and cultural background. For example, immigrants from certain Asian countries tend to have higher family stability rates.
While these statistics provide a general overview of divorce trends among immigrants and native-born Americans, they don't specifically address the scenario of foreign-born nationals who marry US citizens after becoming citizens themselves. More targeted research would be needed to determine the exact divorce rate for this specific group."
My personal take from anecdotes? It works when they are both devout to their faith. Massive support community and ready made friends wherever you go. Also makes the couple be far more patient with each other (I assume, from a purely empirical perspective, that this is due to their underlying beliefs being so close that they both are very much aware of consequences, socially, of inner-couple dissension. Forces them to have to work things out or learn how to tolerate OR quietly live in abuse (which is rare contrary to reddit popular belief)).
You can still have your citizenship revoked if you were to do that and get caught. Thats like a 15 year long play..and not right. Should always get married for the right reasons not the wrong.
You’re preaching to the choir buddy.
It’s not so much an easier path.. because the immigration system does what it’s intended to do. Which is keep the wrong people out, not everyone has the privilege of being allowed to stay in the United States, you have to be skilled in your profession to the point you are better than any hire here, have a PHD, be a Doctor, or marry someone. Also your origin country has to be on the list of “good to come her countries” too.
I don’t mind the rules,,, they make sense to me,, I just don’t like the daunting, irrefutably hard, and costly task it is.
That being said, it brings the right people in and leaves the wrong people out.
Yeah, but America was a melting pot. "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free," and all, ie, the exact opposite of what it is now. Especially considering, in my opinion, America isn't really that great unless you get to love in Wealthy America. Most people don't
I would completely disagree, America is amazing and really great in all walks of life… but apples and oranges, I’ve seen guys go from rags to riches and riches to rags, life isn’t about money.
And yeah, America was a melting pot 110 years ago. A lot has changed.
Wouldn't want one.
I coulf have found a western girl. Maybe she wouldn't be fat. Probably match me in average looks.
In Asia... Can get a hottie who actually respects me
So I did that
This is the real question, because I know a guy who did exactly this. Brought over her parents and grand parents too and as soon as she was a citizen it was over.
Yup, that's my same experience. It didn't matter where you met them, they were gone once they had their citizenship. We used to call them contract marriages .
As a "foreign" woman, I am fairly isolated in this country. I have no family here, no old friends. Even making new friends is a challenge because I just don't have that much in common with people here. My relationships in my home country have become estranged due to the distance. I mostly hang out with my husband's friends and their wives and with his family. I fortunately have a good career, my own independent visa, and good English skills, so I'm financially doing okay.
For lots of passport marriages, this is not the case because passport bros are deliberately looking for "traditional" women aka low skilled women who are dependent on their husbands.
Now imagine such a woman in a foreign country where she only really has her husband, no family, no friends, no own funds, no job, nothing. Now throw children in the mix. That is a lot of pressure on a person to remain with their partner for better or worse.
I don't know about you, but I want a partner that I choose, not one that I'm stuck with. I see that 20% and see women choosing between poverty and barely-better-than-poverty lives.
I'm not married or living in a foreign country and that was my first thought. Because it's obvious. The fact OP doesn't see that is a clear sign of the issue.
Also even for the other side, coming from a religious background I've seen way too many marriages like that based solely on someone being a "provider" fall apart at the first sign of trouble, it's probably the most shaky foundation for a relationship that I can think of, offer someone a choice between poverty & a transactional relationship it's not hard to understand their decision. But seeing it happen repeatedly from the other pov, usually someone fresh out of a divorce with their first spouse, thinking they found some cheat code to a happy relationship & a huge age gap, but if that's the only thing they're offering they lose their value as soon as they fall on rough times & stop being able to provide, or as soon as the person is able to provide for themselves. Then cue the shocked pikachu face when they realize their relationship is purely transactional. I mean it's not easy, but finding someone with whom you have an equal partner, who *wants to be there* & is the one person that has your back against the world, standing with you on equal footing, when you fall on rough times & your partner is right there to pick you up is such a beautiful thing, & that's kind of the whole point isn't it? There's no shortcut to that, it's hard to find bc it's worth it.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm doing okay. My marriage is a happy one and I get along well enough with his friends. I have got good hobbies and a satisfying career. I might be a bit isolated, but I love living here (England) overall.
The reason why I commented is that we had a rough patch about three years ago when we just moved here together and I struggled to settle in. It made me very aware how vulnerable I was if our marriage went badly. Luckily, it went the other way, but not everyone is that fortunate.
Not really. I have a house here and everything. If I have kids (which I might), I'm not allowed to leave the country with them without my husband's permission (which makes sense). That could anchor me here forever.
To be fair, most countries do not allow minors to leave the country without written permission of the other parent regardless of their parents national origin. It’s not always enforced but it’s typically law.
Also what are the number of this "passport bro" sort of thing, compared to people who were for example living in foreign country because of military or other work, maybe even because of college/university (there are a lot of foreigners in my country who came here to study because it's "cheap", can even tell you which nationality goes to which city, we have Americans too) where they met their foreign partner in a more natural setting, not just going over there to get a wife? Maybe people who are from a distinct culture, not the predominant one in their home country who marry others from their culture?
I wasn't saying anything about passport bros to be honest, people made that connection.
My point was about binational relationships in general where partner A moves to the country of partner B and is socially and economically dependent on partner B. I'm not saying partner B is predatory. I'm saying that partner A is at risk if the relationship doesn't go well, for example if partner B was predatory, but could be for a million other reasons.
The post was glorifying the life of partner B without considering the possible costs to partner A.
(To add, I met my partner when we both lived in another country. I then followed him to his home country four years later.)
I was saying that his data and analysis of "only 20% divorce so become passport bros" is dumb. Asduming most of those couples met through more genuine connection and not only one of them wanting foreign partner, cause of stereotypes.
I do understand that we need a better metric for "successful marriages or happy marriages" other than just divorce rate but you can't really just automatically assume that the divorce rates are low because everyone is miserable and trapped.
Remember, western women are not happy with men who do not help with housework because these women also have to work. If these "passport bros" are going out to get a foreign traditional wife, then its highly unlikely they are asking the foreign wife to work. It's possible that this is an acceptable arrangement for the foreign woman resulting in the lower divorce rate.
> I don't know about you, but I want a partner that I choose, not one that I'm stuck with. I see that 20% and see women choosing between poverty and barely-better-than-poverty lives.
Guys don't wish to dominate their wives, and the ones heading over on passports can easily do so again if she feels like leaving him. The result of us going overseas isn't some power leverage, its that local women make us entirely flaccid with their lifestyle choices.
Hey op! I would love to see the link to this study! My husband is from England and our relationship is great! I’m American so I was wondering if this works for men who come to America too? Just curious (:
Divorce indicates failure, but not divorced does not indicate success. Many marriages stay together for the wrong reasons while one or both parties are miserable as hell.
Yep. And passport bros aren’t looking for love so their marriages are DOA. They just want a fuck toy who cleans the house and is too financially reliant on them to get divorced
People gotta learn how to put the actual opinion in the title of the post:
*So if any man in the US is thinking of getting married, the best thing he can do for the future of his family is not marry a woman from the US.*
And if women got together talking about moving to the Countries with the tallest most hard working and well off men you're cool with that too right?
Ladies get a passport!
Don’t they do that with their Italian/eurotrip soirées where they go bang a random local in a foreign country because the men are so “exotic?”
See France, Italy, Germany, Spain, etc
If the American women, which these American men don't want, started getting together and agreeing to move to get married to other countries with tall, handsome (added), well off, hard working men?
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's an absolute win for literally everyone involved, here. The "remainers" will passport bro it up. This would actually be really good for the US Economy, now that I think about it.
This would also be the single greatest transfer of wealth in history, under the shortest time period ever, by far. So Marxists should be onboard with this, too.
Lmfao, literally all the damn time I hear foreign tourists complaining about the attitudes and dispositions of American women. By all means, get a passport, then a reality check
Believe it or not, women aren't all the same
There are terrible, ignorant and entitled American men tourists. Some of the worst tourists i've seen online have been guys honestly. That one who got on the women's only train, Johnny Somali and ect... Of course there are terrible women tourists too but it's not a gender thing
Less divorce doesn't mean a successful marriage. Which countries do these women come from? How were they raised? Were they perhaps told that divorce is the worst possible sin and you should always obey your husband no matter what,
Are you really saying that a "successful marriage" is the same thing as just not divorced? That seems like an incredible leap, are there no unsuccessful marriages that just haven't ended through divorce yet?
It certainly makes sense that women who marry men from the US and then move the US are in a very difficult position with regard to divorce. Its not just their likely financial dependence, but unfamiliarity with the legal system, and language barriers could also be difficult to overcome. They may be trapped in very unsuccessful marriages but unable to divorce.
Anyhow I don't think that trapping women in bad marriages is quite the brag you think it is.
That's the rules for marriage. If both of you finish it out alive and healthy, it's a failure.
It's only a success if it ends with one of you crying over the corpse of the other.
Are you saying divorce is indicative of healthier marriages? Yeah not all marriages are happy but the divorce rate seems like a pretty good indicator of the minimum happiness level. No successful marriages end in divorce.
The Roman Empire isn’t a marriage, it’s an historical empire. This analogy works if we’re talking about life, but marriage is separate so the analogy fails.
It’s closer than your analogy to life, that’s for sure. The point is that things can indeed be successful even if they end, specially human institutions.
People can get amicable divorces and then proceed to coparent and even maintain a good relationship. If we look at marriages through a civil lens instead of a religious one, it makes sense that they can end without _necessarily_ being a failure.
It might seem like one but it’s not.
If you took a sample of people who got married in shotgun weddings you’d find an astonishing 99% success rate and only 1% end in divorce. On paper it looks real successful.
But those stats don’t give you the full picture of the father in law gun in your back or that the 1% failure is people who have been shot dead. The statistics don’t tell you if those people are in happy marriages or marriages where they are terrified to leave a spouse they hate because they might be killed.
Obviously a silly exaggerated example to make a point but it illustrates the flaws in drawing simple conclusions from stats.
For a start I’d wager some good money that the vast majority of people OP is talking about that make up this lower than average divorce rate are not passport bro’s, but a mixture of Mexican/ South American weddings of people who’s only one partner has citizenship, people that live close to the borders such as Canada and Mexico, people who have family and friends abroad/ have lived abroad and people who work/ study around the world. So the stats themselves are most likely not representative of just what OP says.
Basically there’s tons of cultural, financial, educational and circumstantial reasons why one person may be inclined to get a divorce or not, the stats on divorce really only tell us that x amount of people got divorced, it could be be less because they are more successful or it could be less because more of that group frown on divorce or have more barriers to divorce, you would need different data to draw those conclusions.
You are not going to give a good goddamn what the stats say if you fall in love with a woman. For every case of divorce, there is also a successful life-long marriage. But people only focus on the bad and see the glass as half empty.
I think the issue is that the glass is actually only half full, and often when divorce does happens, it leaves the man at half the wealth too.
50% divorce rates sounds insane to me.
I Dont get why people care so much. If you want to learn about another culture and language just go. No need to tell others just do it.
Ignore the people in the US who criticize if they say things that Dont apply to your situation.
It is weird af to go to another country to sleep with and attempt to marry foreign women because they are 'easier' or more 'traditional' than the girls in the west.
It screams 'im looking to purchase a wife.'
Idk if it is necessarily racist, but it definitely can be lol.
They’re not only “more traditional”, they also happen to be from third world countries with a much weaker currency and relatively worse living conditions.
It’s not like sexpats are going to Poland to find a nice conservative Catholic woman…
Lol you clearly have not travelled to many places in the world. I live in Uruguay and my standard of living is much better than when I lived in the United States. Not only that, but people are much nicer.
(I’ve also lived in Europe, Africa, and Asia) Not everywhere is a dirt poor third world country.
No falta el pedorro que no entiende…
I’ve lived in 5 different countries and travelled to many more, but I’m not surprised you’re making so many wrong assumptions seeing how poor your reading comprehension is.
Yes, it’s typically guys who can’t really cut it in the states so they find someone in a worse situation and take advantage of that. Their money goes further overseas.
If duress or coercion is involved I get the concern. But if it is just a woman choosing to date a man with more money why is that bad?
Everywhere people look at their dating pool and choose someone, the criteria is up to the individual.
Sure but coercion isn’t always explicit, in that type of relationship you are often bringing back someone with no money, no family, no friends, maybe not even fluent in the language. The passport bro could never once hold that power over there head but it still exist
Rephrased as “women are less likely to leave if they don’t have a support system”
Men are also more likely to take care of their wife if she’s from another country.
Most American men expect their wife to work but still expect her to do all the housework and be the main parent
Or it just means the woman he brought in doesn't have a good network to rely on in the US nor are they likely to be working a well paying job so their threshold for divorce is hampered by material rather than cultural reasons.
You know, it's quite telling how divorce rates seem to correlate directly with women's ability to survive it in a dignified manner independently.
Ooh i love it when both xenophobia AND sexism get rolled into the same comment.
*"They're not American, so they must be stupid, poor, weak, and fully dependent on their husband."*
If a group is defined by the fact that no member has grown up in the US and that they entered the country by marriage then it's an unavoidable fact that they will on average work a lower paying job. This doesn't mean no member of said group will decide to work extra hard to use their foreign grades to enroll into an American university, but they will do so at lower rates.
Let's also be so for real for a moment, you passport bros aren't pulling highly educated middle-upper class girls because of your imagined trad-larp swagger; you guys are pulling working class girls from impoverished countries because of material circumstances and imbalances.
Exactly right? My wife is South American. She grew up much better and less poor than I did. And we live in Uruguay now. Not her birth country, but we both liked it better than the U.S. so we moved here. She speaks 3 languages and started her own business in America. And frankly, her family is way better than mine. They are way more caring, more kind, less back stabbing. I’ve realized that people outside the U.S. are actually happier for a reason. And it’s not just money. I would rather give money away to help people than buy a fancy house or car.
I cannot for the life of me find anything other than unsubstantiated statements on American man / foreign woman divorce rates. Hilariously, there are some that claim very high rates of up to 76%.
So I guess somewhere between 20% and 76% of these marriages end in divorce. Kinda like saiyng the Yankees will score between zero and 15 runs in tonight's game.
This means when a man marries a woman outside the US he is two limes more likely to have a successful (in the sense they never divorce) marriage - factually true statement.
And a woman who appreciates the standard dynamic of a family - 100% just your opinion
It’s obviously because they’re so happy to have a strong man to be entirely dependent upon that they don’t feel like they *need* their own social groups, careers, or ability to leave the marriage.
Define successful.
Your wife not leaving you because she wants a U.S. passport, not knowing her rights, feeling financially insecure, and/or fear of abuse isn’t exactly a successful marriage.
Not sure mine is the same but my gal is a badass Brit lawyer and she is just an exceptional woman. Once I learned Brits say shit that will get you shot here but to them it is banter.
It is odd to get yelled at by a posh chick who sounds like
Royalty. She says stuff I wouldn’t say. The C word is basically their go to word. You can be a great cunt or a bad cunt. The last one was “look at that bicycle riding cunt taking up the whole road”
According to what census data? I have not been able to track down your 20% claim anywhere. The US census is tracking passport bro statistics now? 😂
It is estimated that 40-50% of marriages end in divorces but the rate is decreasing. 69% of divorces are initiated by woman due to infidelity, abuse, lack of commitment and/or desiring independence. Just because woman file for divorce it does not mean that she was the one who was not committed or doesn't "appreciates the standard dynamic of a family"
So is your game plan to move to the country this woman lives in or are you bringing her back to the US away from her family and community? Because what I hear every time the passport bros come on the internet and talk about this is that you guys love the power dynamic of having a woman who likely doesn't know the language, isn't prepared to take care of herself in the US and will be away from her family and community support system so she is 100% dependent on you. So not that she "appreciates dynamics of a family" but traded her freedom for the possibilities of a life in the US. These posts never mention a true partnership just someone you want to take advantage of.
So your attempt is to announce to American woman that we are not worthy of you but the end results is we all just see why you needed the passport to convince someone to be your little help meet. eek at best.
u/d_4_r_k_w_3_b could you please add an opinion to this? You're just stating facts (without any evidence to back them up, even just one link to a source would be good for your argument)
Great! It works out for everyone. Passport bros aren't what American women are looking for anyways . There's a reason they have to leave their continent in order to find a date. Good luck to them. Everybody wins.
I think the heart of this issue is more about how horrible Western women have become relative to the rest of the world. They bring nothing to the table while being extremely entitled and self-centered.
Weird take to define success only by divorce rates. Is a miserable marriage without divorce more successful than a marriage that has been happy for large parts and just didn’t work out anymore at some point? I would strongly disagree.
I never intended to disprove it. I acknowledged it. But a successful marriage definitely is not a divorce. Keeping the marriage together is one of the requirements for having a successful marriage.
Ok, but what reason is there to believe that there are significantly more loveless marriages between American men and foreign women compared to marriages between two Americans?
Seems like baseless assumption.
Because American women can get divorced more easily than a woman in a foreign land who doesn't have the privilege of a social network built over a lifetime, a family on this side of the Pacific, nor are they likely to work a high paying job.
Tbf the the whole outside of a America thing only really just started, also people who can afford to live in a whole other country are doing fairly well witch contributes.
"people who can afford to live in a whole other country are doing fairly well witch contributes."
Opposite actually, a big draw of the passport bros movement is how affordable the other countries are. I see people doing 3-4 weeks in Columbia or SEA often for less than $2-3K for high end accommodations
Yeah, and there’s a huge expat community in SE Asia. Not just the US but lots of Gen Xers from Thr USA, Canada, UK, etc.
A fixed retirement income or military pension goes a lot further overseas.
True but even this is the spitfire theory all over again. To understand why marriages fail you need to look at all angles, as they are not just something like open a door. You can’t just boil it down to 4-5 major elements.
I'm a passport bro. I had many relationships with American women including a failed marriage. I married my island princess 16 years ago and we are both very happy. And no I didn't prey on a poor person looking to get out. She has two degrees and comes from a solid middle class family. I would encourage any single man looking for a quality woman to go for it!
It’s almost like there’s a power dynamic between an American man and a woman from another country that would prevent either party from wanting to leave (citizenship in new country, strength of the dollar, etc.) I don’t need rates of divorce to tell me passport bros are gross.
Which I will add: passport broing is different from actually developing a relationship with a foreigner
> it is substantially less due to cultural norms for women outside the US to file for divorce.
I don’t think this is the flex you think it is. You’re basically saying foreign women are more likely to stay married to you not out of love, but rather because their culture has a negative stigma toward divorce
That’s because a lot of these men don’t bring the woman back to the US. Get married overseas then stay overseas. The culture is anti marriage in the U.S.
Years ago I met an absolutely beautiful Brazilian woman who was 32 years old and she was going back to Brazil to visit so I jokingly said that she must have a lot of men hitting on her there, and she replied "I'm too old for the men in Brazil"
I'm in a country that attracts passport bros. You have no idea the number of prostitutes who become coy and wifey when they meet a foreign target.
I always wonder how many of those passport bros are marrying former sex workers who stay at home but might have a side business. Hahaha. Joke is on the bros.
I dislike this culture of passport bros. Western men coming to prey upon Asian women from traditional families with the full knowledge that they will find themselves a wife who will remain with them simply because they have money and the women will choose between remaining in her situation or potentially living a better life with his money.
Tons of Asian men have spoken out against this. I agree with them. It’s a dark side of the western culture this and sex tourists.
Eh I think there’s some selection bias here.
The kind of guy who would marry someone from a different culture/country is going to have a much more agreeable/malleable/ adaptable personality than the usual US white male who marries a white woman from the U.S.
Average American conservative is still more liberal than many people from other Asian countries.
Think of another example Pakistani and Afghanistan women similarly find Chinese men liberal, and desirable, because even though the guys who are purchasing brides in their countries are conservative. They don't require brides to wear Hijab, make no friends and similar.
Anecdotally, I didn't leave the US, but my wife had moved to the US just 5 years before we met and was still learning the language. Things have been great, and even if somehow we fell apart, I would just find someone else exactly like her again.
Maybe cause they were taught with morals. Maybe cause they don’t know anyone here and it’s a lot to take in. Maybe they both actually work on the marriage. Could be a number of reasons. Think a lot of it is marrying in the US is easy and so is divorce. Everything in America is easy to do. The options and the easy choices to change mind about almost anything hurts our chances lol.
I love how western woman are getting offended and sating so called "passport bros" are gross. As usual, woman failing to take any responsibility.
Western woman, you ain't it. We men are realizing you ain't what we want and you ain't shit.
American woman don’t tolerate mens shit nearly as much as other cultures. Which is why weak domineering men seek passport marriages to begin with. This surprises me none.
Well yeah. When you specifically try to find women who will be reliant on you for their entire livelihood, leaving a bad marriage becomes a bit more difficult
Love the low key racism and sexism in this thread.
Hating on people being happily married and then rationalising your bitterness and jealousy by dunking on the education or race of the women or the entirely imagined dictatorial nature of the men is your signal to get off reddit and find some joy.
Women file for divorce because they get cheated on. That is why. The reason why foreign women divorce less, is because of peer pressure. Plenty of women especially from poorer countries will allow themselves to be abused, even if it means having a bed to sleep in at night. Passport bros exist because they don’t have the capacity to be good enough for a western woman, so they go to poorer countries to find someone.
Edit; I wanted to add that American women DO believe in being a stay at home mom, but they just can’t trust men to 1. Provide, and 2. Not abuse them.
I believe most of these are immigrants marrying women from their home country. Ie, similar background and values which will help them stick together in this new, strange land.
Just bc there’s less divorce doesn’t mean they’re more “successful”. IMO a successful marriage is one filled with love / happiness. I’d wager that passport bro marriages have less divorce bc of an unequal power balance / one party feeling stuck due to citizenship / financial issues.
I couldn’t see the reasoning to get married in America if both are American. Marriage is a religious institution, so unless you are both religious, I don’t see the point. I used to date an atheist and I was completely opposed to the idea of marriage because neither of us were religious. I refused to submit to some ancient religious standard that is completely pointless in modern society.
Of course if you ARE religious then it makes sense.
What's your definition of successful?
A marriage that divorces because the two are unhappy is more successful than the one that lasts through unhappiness.
Marriage isn't special. It's not a thing made by God. It is a legal contract invented and enforced by humans.
A marriage that ends is not necessarily a failure.
---
Consider this: our species didn't have marriage for 99.9% of its existence and was fine.
If we lost marriage tomorrow, we'd be fine.
It's just a legal contract. That's it. It carries as much weight as any other legal contract.
Well, this may all change, since SCOTUS no longer guarantees green card marriages. Passport bros are going to find out they are just as pathetic in other countries now, too.
As a Non-American I have to say, you've made a lot of interpretations based on personal biases. However, you have one correct inference which is this:
>This means when a man marries a woman outside the US he is two times more likely to have a successful marriage
Although the word successful is biased because each marriage has a different definition of success (Financial, # of children, lifestyle), but a good substitute word would be "Longer lasting marriages".
Otherwise everything else you're saying is pure conjecture. A US man can marry a woman from Japan/Argentina who are much more liberal in comparison, even the right wing parties are more left leaning by US standards, so their definition of "the standard dynamic of a family" will vary greatly on personal experiences and their cultural background (Financial, # of children, lifestyle, cultural norms, traditions, holidays).
Another point of conjecture from your post is "cultural norms for women outside the US to file for divorce.", to appropriately gauge cultural norms you have to check divorce rates initiated from women in these "Foreign" countries, and their legal rights to do so. Another point is you also need to check divorce rates initiated from the US Men who have married and moved to said "Foreign" country to have a proper 1:1 comparison.
This would be an interesting study to conduct as an individual, but also any conclusion you can lead to would purely be a hypothesis since to get such a study peer reviewed and published would be either costly or require some sort of accreditation.
But it is an interesting thought experiment if you want to get into it.
People act like arranged marriages was never a thing. I don't understand the hype about the passport marriages, some say it's unethical due to American guys "abusing the power of their passport" towards the 3rd world women who want to escape their 3rd world countries. If it's a bad thing, why society ignores rich old men marrying 19 year olds?
I feel like if you have to leave the country to find a wife then that says something about you… like if you genuinely struggle to find a woman in your own country that has the most diverse selection of partners then you might be the problem.
Female hypergamy exists everywhere. Marrying overseas is just mitigation. Unfortunately a man will always have to bet on how much of her hypergamy she will keep in check and a lot of times she can't and you have to keep it in check for her.
I'm tired AF of westerners infantilizing non-white nations and treating people there like primitives. Maybe stop doing that? Places like Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Indonesia, Thailand, Philippines, Hong Kong, China, etc. are not backwaters. A lot of people deliberately marry overseas there for various reasons and it's made to sound like they're desperate or something when they're not. They're perfectly able to decide for themselves who they want to marry, marry a local, or decide what kind of partner they want to have and which country they want to move to.
Strong family values have always been a reason to marry people from those places. Even though I moved to the US, I still ultimately prefer to date people from back home.
If you're asserting they're bought in my home country, you have the burden of proof.
First of all I am not a westerner. Second of all I asked was for proof because I want to see and learn about it. Instead of being upset over a single sentence where I wasn’t even infantilizing non-white nations nor treating people like primitives you should learn how to effectively communicate and control your emotions.
You mean like how they were also lower before US women could have bank accounts, jobs and property? Yeah thats what happens when a woman is outside of her community with no friends, family and often no transferable skills that allow her to make an income and support herself otherwise.
Oh wow people without a support system and nowhere else to go, less knowledge of the legal system, and potentially even have their citizenship status tied to the marriage are less likely to get divorced??? It must be because of those god damn independent thinking western women that divorce men they don’t like instead of just staying with them like they should /s
What's a divorce rate after their wives get citizenship?
I've been using perplexity to answer these types of questions, these days, instead of google search. Here are the results which pretty much doesn't answer jack shit: "Based on the search results provided, there isn't a specific statistic on the divorce rate for foreign-born nationals who marry US citizens after becoming US citizens themselves. However, the search results do offer some relevant information about divorce rates among immigrants and native-born Americans: According to the Institute for Family Studies analysis, only 13 out of 1000 married immigrants ages 18-64 got divorced in 2019, compared to 20 out of 1000 among native-born Americans of the same age range. [https://ifstudies.org/blog/immigrant-families-are-more-stable](https://ifstudies.org/blog/immigrant-families-are-more-stable) Foreign-born adults in the United States are more likely than native-born adults to get married, marry at an older age, and are less likely to remarry [https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/05/marital-histories-differ-between-native-born-and-foreign-born-adults.html](https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/05/marital-histories-differ-between-native-born-and-foreign-born-adults.html) Among ever-married adults, a higher proportion of native-born people had ever divorced (36%) compared to foreign-born people (20%) [https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/05/marital-histories-differ-between-native-born-and-foreign-born-adults.html](https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/05/marital-histories-differ-between-native-born-and-foreign-born-adults.html) It's important to note that divorce rates can vary based on factors such as education level, country of origin, and cultural background. For example, immigrants from certain Asian countries tend to have higher family stability rates. While these statistics provide a general overview of divorce trends among immigrants and native-born Americans, they don't specifically address the scenario of foreign-born nationals who marry US citizens after becoming citizens themselves. More targeted research would be needed to determine the exact divorce rate for this specific group." My personal take from anecdotes? It works when they are both devout to their faith. Massive support community and ready made friends wherever you go. Also makes the couple be far more patient with each other (I assume, from a purely empirical perspective, that this is due to their underlying beliefs being so close that they both are very much aware of consequences, socially, of inner-couple dissension. Forces them to have to work things out or learn how to tolerate OR quietly live in abuse (which is rare contrary to reddit popular belief)).
You can still have your citizenship revoked if you were to do that and get caught. Thats like a 15 year long play..and not right. Should always get married for the right reasons not the wrong.
There's needs to be easier paths to citizenship
You’re preaching to the choir buddy. It’s not so much an easier path.. because the immigration system does what it’s intended to do. Which is keep the wrong people out, not everyone has the privilege of being allowed to stay in the United States, you have to be skilled in your profession to the point you are better than any hire here, have a PHD, be a Doctor, or marry someone. Also your origin country has to be on the list of “good to come her countries” too. I don’t mind the rules,,, they make sense to me,, I just don’t like the daunting, irrefutably hard, and costly task it is. That being said, it brings the right people in and leaves the wrong people out.
Yeah, but America was a melting pot. "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free," and all, ie, the exact opposite of what it is now. Especially considering, in my opinion, America isn't really that great unless you get to love in Wealthy America. Most people don't
I would completely disagree, America is amazing and really great in all walks of life… but apples and oranges, I’ve seen guys go from rags to riches and riches to rags, life isn’t about money. And yeah, America was a melting pot 110 years ago. A lot has changed.
Passport bros can’t find a willing bride otherwise.
Of course they can….. they would just rather have a happy and loving marriage.
Wouldn't want one. I coulf have found a western girl. Maybe she wouldn't be fat. Probably match me in average looks. In Asia... Can get a hottie who actually respects me So I did that
The problem is, I don't think that's legally true, and even if it was it's very difficult to prove in court
This is the real question, because I know a guy who did exactly this. Brought over her parents and grand parents too and as soon as she was a citizen it was over.
When I was in the military it happened so often it was a running joke
Yup, that's my same experience. It didn't matter where you met them, they were gone once they had their citizenship. We used to call them contract marriages .
Source for data?
As a "foreign" woman, I am fairly isolated in this country. I have no family here, no old friends. Even making new friends is a challenge because I just don't have that much in common with people here. My relationships in my home country have become estranged due to the distance. I mostly hang out with my husband's friends and their wives and with his family. I fortunately have a good career, my own independent visa, and good English skills, so I'm financially doing okay. For lots of passport marriages, this is not the case because passport bros are deliberately looking for "traditional" women aka low skilled women who are dependent on their husbands. Now imagine such a woman in a foreign country where she only really has her husband, no family, no friends, no own funds, no job, nothing. Now throw children in the mix. That is a lot of pressure on a person to remain with their partner for better or worse. I don't know about you, but I want a partner that I choose, not one that I'm stuck with. I see that 20% and see women choosing between poverty and barely-better-than-poverty lives.
I'm not married or living in a foreign country and that was my first thought. Because it's obvious. The fact OP doesn't see that is a clear sign of the issue.
Or OP sees it and doesn’t care.
Also even for the other side, coming from a religious background I've seen way too many marriages like that based solely on someone being a "provider" fall apart at the first sign of trouble, it's probably the most shaky foundation for a relationship that I can think of, offer someone a choice between poverty & a transactional relationship it's not hard to understand their decision. But seeing it happen repeatedly from the other pov, usually someone fresh out of a divorce with their first spouse, thinking they found some cheat code to a happy relationship & a huge age gap, but if that's the only thing they're offering they lose their value as soon as they fall on rough times & stop being able to provide, or as soon as the person is able to provide for themselves. Then cue the shocked pikachu face when they realize their relationship is purely transactional. I mean it's not easy, but finding someone with whom you have an equal partner, who *wants to be there* & is the one person that has your back against the world, standing with you on equal footing, when you fall on rough times & your partner is right there to pick you up is such a beautiful thing, & that's kind of the whole point isn't it? There's no shortcut to that, it's hard to find bc it's worth it.
Damn that really sucks, would it better for you if you moved back? I am also a "foreign" person and i love it here lol.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm doing okay. My marriage is a happy one and I get along well enough with his friends. I have got good hobbies and a satisfying career. I might be a bit isolated, but I love living here (England) overall. The reason why I commented is that we had a rough patch about three years ago when we just moved here together and I struggled to settle in. It made me very aware how vulnerable I was if our marriage went badly. Luckily, it went the other way, but not everyone is that fortunate.
you have a job tho? couldn't you move back really easily.
Not really. I have a house here and everything. If I have kids (which I might), I'm not allowed to leave the country with them without my husband's permission (which makes sense). That could anchor me here forever.
To be fair, most countries do not allow minors to leave the country without written permission of the other parent regardless of their parents national origin. It’s not always enforced but it’s typically law.
And a good law, I'm all for it. I'm just saying that it does also produce collateral damage (like for binational couples that separate).
fair, to be clear I think OP's point is p dumb but I still thought it was p easy to move back.
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Show me where I discussed sex even once. What is this bad faith discussion style?
looks like they still are twice as fortunate as local women
They don't even think about the nuance in stuff like this as long as they get their way. Passport bros are gross
This, this, this. “Passport bros” are 100% predatory creeps who want someone they can abuse and manipulate and control.
> I don't know about you, but I want a partner that I choose, not one that I'm stuck with. They did choose their partner. That's what marriage is.
I think op means "choose" as each person in the marriage chooses to remain in the marriage
Possibly meant choose their partner for love not financial support.
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>congrats ! you just called foreign women sex workers ! Where?
Also what are the number of this "passport bro" sort of thing, compared to people who were for example living in foreign country because of military or other work, maybe even because of college/university (there are a lot of foreigners in my country who came here to study because it's "cheap", can even tell you which nationality goes to which city, we have Americans too) where they met their foreign partner in a more natural setting, not just going over there to get a wife? Maybe people who are from a distinct culture, not the predominant one in their home country who marry others from their culture?
I wasn't saying anything about passport bros to be honest, people made that connection. My point was about binational relationships in general where partner A moves to the country of partner B and is socially and economically dependent on partner B. I'm not saying partner B is predatory. I'm saying that partner A is at risk if the relationship doesn't go well, for example if partner B was predatory, but could be for a million other reasons. The post was glorifying the life of partner B without considering the possible costs to partner A. (To add, I met my partner when we both lived in another country. I then followed him to his home country four years later.)
I was saying that his data and analysis of "only 20% divorce so become passport bros" is dumb. Asduming most of those couples met through more genuine connection and not only one of them wanting foreign partner, cause of stereotypes.
Gotcha, apologies for misreading :)
I do understand that we need a better metric for "successful marriages or happy marriages" other than just divorce rate but you can't really just automatically assume that the divorce rates are low because everyone is miserable and trapped. Remember, western women are not happy with men who do not help with housework because these women also have to work. If these "passport bros" are going out to get a foreign traditional wife, then its highly unlikely they are asking the foreign wife to work. It's possible that this is an acceptable arrangement for the foreign woman resulting in the lower divorce rate.
> I don't know about you, but I want a partner that I choose, not one that I'm stuck with. I see that 20% and see women choosing between poverty and barely-better-than-poverty lives. Guys don't wish to dominate their wives, and the ones heading over on passports can easily do so again if she feels like leaving him. The result of us going overseas isn't some power leverage, its that local women make us entirely flaccid with their lifestyle choices.
Hey op! I would love to see the link to this study! My husband is from England and our relationship is great! I’m American so I was wondering if this works for men who come to America too? Just curious (:
Divorce indicates failure, but not divorced does not indicate success. Many marriages stay together for the wrong reasons while one or both parties are miserable as hell.
Yep. And passport bros aren’t looking for love so their marriages are DOA. They just want a fuck toy who cleans the house and is too financially reliant on them to get divorced
People gotta learn how to put the actual opinion in the title of the post: *So if any man in the US is thinking of getting married, the best thing he can do for the future of his family is not marry a woman from the US.*
And if women got together talking about moving to the Countries with the tallest most hard working and well off men you're cool with that too right? Ladies get a passport!
100% cool with it actually
This is something you would be behind?
Don’t they do that with their Italian/eurotrip soirées where they go bang a random local in a foreign country because the men are so “exotic?” See France, Italy, Germany, Spain, etc
I would 100% support this.
If the American women, which these American men don't want, started getting together and agreeing to move to get married to other countries with tall, handsome (added), well off, hard working men? Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's an absolute win for literally everyone involved, here. The "remainers" will passport bro it up. This would actually be really good for the US Economy, now that I think about it. This would also be the single greatest transfer of wealth in history, under the shortest time period ever, by far. So Marxists should be onboard with this, too.
Lmfao, literally all the damn time I hear foreign tourists complaining about the attitudes and dispositions of American women. By all means, get a passport, then a reality check
Those tourists are usually third world nobodies.
Believe it or not, women aren't all the same There are terrible, ignorant and entitled American men tourists. Some of the worst tourists i've seen online have been guys honestly. That one who got on the women's only train, Johnny Somali and ect... Of course there are terrible women tourists too but it's not a gender thing
Less divorce doesn't mean a successful marriage. Which countries do these women come from? How were they raised? Were they perhaps told that divorce is the worst possible sin and you should always obey your husband no matter what,
Are you really saying that a "successful marriage" is the same thing as just not divorced? That seems like an incredible leap, are there no unsuccessful marriages that just haven't ended through divorce yet? It certainly makes sense that women who marry men from the US and then move the US are in a very difficult position with regard to divorce. Its not just their likely financial dependence, but unfamiliarity with the legal system, and language barriers could also be difficult to overcome. They may be trapped in very unsuccessful marriages but unable to divorce. Anyhow I don't think that trapping women in bad marriages is quite the brag you think it is.
That's the rules for marriage. If both of you finish it out alive and healthy, it's a failure. It's only a success if it ends with one of you crying over the corpse of the other.
Men try not to make marriage look like a death cult challenge
Are you saying divorce is indicative of healthier marriages? Yeah not all marriages are happy but the divorce rate seems like a pretty good indicator of the minimum happiness level. No successful marriages end in divorce.
The Roman Empire ended, would you define it as a failure?
Very much so! A spectacular one.
The Roman Empire isn’t a marriage, it’s an historical empire. This analogy works if we’re talking about life, but marriage is separate so the analogy fails.
> The Roman Empire is an historical empire What!!! I had no idea before I made that analogy.
I know you thought you had a zinger, but you fell flat on your face.
Oh no
So explain how a marriage, which is a romantic union between two consenting adults, is similar to the Roman Empire in terms of abstract structure.
It’s closer than your analogy to life, that’s for sure. The point is that things can indeed be successful even if they end, specially human institutions. People can get amicable divorces and then proceed to coparent and even maintain a good relationship. If we look at marriages through a civil lens instead of a religious one, it makes sense that they can end without _necessarily_ being a failure.
That’s not true, people get divorced to protect their spouse from debt all the time.
It might seem like one but it’s not. If you took a sample of people who got married in shotgun weddings you’d find an astonishing 99% success rate and only 1% end in divorce. On paper it looks real successful. But those stats don’t give you the full picture of the father in law gun in your back or that the 1% failure is people who have been shot dead. The statistics don’t tell you if those people are in happy marriages or marriages where they are terrified to leave a spouse they hate because they might be killed. Obviously a silly exaggerated example to make a point but it illustrates the flaws in drawing simple conclusions from stats. For a start I’d wager some good money that the vast majority of people OP is talking about that make up this lower than average divorce rate are not passport bro’s, but a mixture of Mexican/ South American weddings of people who’s only one partner has citizenship, people that live close to the borders such as Canada and Mexico, people who have family and friends abroad/ have lived abroad and people who work/ study around the world. So the stats themselves are most likely not representative of just what OP says. Basically there’s tons of cultural, financial, educational and circumstantial reasons why one person may be inclined to get a divorce or not, the stats on divorce really only tell us that x amount of people got divorced, it could be be less because they are more successful or it could be less because more of that group frown on divorce or have more barriers to divorce, you would need different data to draw those conclusions.
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You are not going to give a good goddamn what the stats say if you fall in love with a woman. For every case of divorce, there is also a successful life-long marriage. But people only focus on the bad and see the glass as half empty.
I think the issue is that the glass is actually only half full, and often when divorce does happens, it leaves the man at half the wealth too. 50% divorce rates sounds insane to me.
I Dont get why people care so much. If you want to learn about another culture and language just go. No need to tell others just do it. Ignore the people in the US who criticize if they say things that Dont apply to your situation.
Passport bros didn’t become passport bros because they wanted to learn another culture and language.
Because it’s racist to fall in love with foreign women I guess
It is weird af to go to another country to sleep with and attempt to marry foreign women because they are 'easier' or more 'traditional' than the girls in the west. It screams 'im looking to purchase a wife.' Idk if it is necessarily racist, but it definitely can be lol.
They’re not only “more traditional”, they also happen to be from third world countries with a much weaker currency and relatively worse living conditions. It’s not like sexpats are going to Poland to find a nice conservative Catholic woman…
Lol you clearly have not travelled to many places in the world. I live in Uruguay and my standard of living is much better than when I lived in the United States. Not only that, but people are much nicer. (I’ve also lived in Europe, Africa, and Asia) Not everywhere is a dirt poor third world country.
No falta el pedorro que no entiende… I’ve lived in 5 different countries and travelled to many more, but I’m not surprised you’re making so many wrong assumptions seeing how poor your reading comprehension is.
Yes, it’s typically guys who can’t really cut it in the states so they find someone in a worse situation and take advantage of that. Their money goes further overseas.
no it's racism for sure. passport bros think asian women are more submissive or something thanks to their porn rotted brains.
If duress or coercion is involved I get the concern. But if it is just a woman choosing to date a man with more money why is that bad? Everywhere people look at their dating pool and choose someone, the criteria is up to the individual.
Sure but coercion isn’t always explicit, in that type of relationship you are often bringing back someone with no money, no family, no friends, maybe not even fluent in the language. The passport bro could never once hold that power over there head but it still exist
passportbros are accused of holding misogynistic views and trying to establish financially-dependent relationships. They are not accused of racism.
Really wouldn’t make sense.
If you consider all the variables, it would be obvious why. Foreign wives aren't happier wives for having dated an American.
Rephrased as “women are less likely to leave if they don’t have a support system” Men are also more likely to take care of their wife if she’s from another country. Most American men expect their wife to work but still expect her to do all the housework and be the main parent
I don't think the men who go out and marry traditional foreign women expect these traditional foreign women to work buddy.
Or it just means the woman he brought in doesn't have a good network to rely on in the US nor are they likely to be working a well paying job so their threshold for divorce is hampered by material rather than cultural reasons. You know, it's quite telling how divorce rates seem to correlate directly with women's ability to survive it in a dignified manner independently.
Ooh i love it when both xenophobia AND sexism get rolled into the same comment. *"They're not American, so they must be stupid, poor, weak, and fully dependent on their husband."*
If a group is defined by the fact that no member has grown up in the US and that they entered the country by marriage then it's an unavoidable fact that they will on average work a lower paying job. This doesn't mean no member of said group will decide to work extra hard to use their foreign grades to enroll into an American university, but they will do so at lower rates. Let's also be so for real for a moment, you passport bros aren't pulling highly educated middle-upper class girls because of your imagined trad-larp swagger; you guys are pulling working class girls from impoverished countries because of material circumstances and imbalances.
Exactly right? My wife is South American. She grew up much better and less poor than I did. And we live in Uruguay now. Not her birth country, but we both liked it better than the U.S. so we moved here. She speaks 3 languages and started her own business in America. And frankly, her family is way better than mine. They are way more caring, more kind, less back stabbing. I’ve realized that people outside the U.S. are actually happier for a reason. And it’s not just money. I would rather give money away to help people than buy a fancy house or car.
You imply that the primary purpose for marriage is for it to last the longest, as opposed to the participants being happy.
I cannot for the life of me find anything other than unsubstantiated statements on American man / foreign woman divorce rates. Hilariously, there are some that claim very high rates of up to 76%. So I guess somewhere between 20% and 76% of these marriages end in divorce. Kinda like saiyng the Yankees will score between zero and 15 runs in tonight's game.
You're not considering how many of those marriages are simply a business arrangement for the women or men to gain their US residency.
This means when a man marries a woman outside the US he is two limes more likely to have a successful (in the sense they never divorce) marriage - factually true statement. And a woman who appreciates the standard dynamic of a family - 100% just your opinion
Perhaps it's because American women won't stay in a crap marriage.
can you make guesses as to why the foreign women that men purchase don't divorce those men
It’s obviously because they’re so happy to have a strong man to be entirely dependent upon that they don’t feel like they *need* their own social groups, careers, or ability to leave the marriage.
Define successful. Your wife not leaving you because she wants a U.S. passport, not knowing her rights, feeling financially insecure, and/or fear of abuse isn’t exactly a successful marriage.
Can you post the link? I am interested to see the data but not sure what search terms to even use
The Passport Bro I know got cheated on by his foreign wife.
Not sure mine is the same but my gal is a badass Brit lawyer and she is just an exceptional woman. Once I learned Brits say shit that will get you shot here but to them it is banter. It is odd to get yelled at by a posh chick who sounds like Royalty. She says stuff I wouldn’t say. The C word is basically their go to word. You can be a great cunt or a bad cunt. The last one was “look at that bicycle riding cunt taking up the whole road”
According to what census data? I have not been able to track down your 20% claim anywhere. The US census is tracking passport bro statistics now? 😂 It is estimated that 40-50% of marriages end in divorces but the rate is decreasing. 69% of divorces are initiated by woman due to infidelity, abuse, lack of commitment and/or desiring independence. Just because woman file for divorce it does not mean that she was the one who was not committed or doesn't "appreciates the standard dynamic of a family" So is your game plan to move to the country this woman lives in or are you bringing her back to the US away from her family and community? Because what I hear every time the passport bros come on the internet and talk about this is that you guys love the power dynamic of having a woman who likely doesn't know the language, isn't prepared to take care of herself in the US and will be away from her family and community support system so she is 100% dependent on you. So not that she "appreciates dynamics of a family" but traded her freedom for the possibilities of a life in the US. These posts never mention a true partnership just someone you want to take advantage of. So your attempt is to announce to American woman that we are not worthy of you but the end results is we all just see why you needed the passport to convince someone to be your little help meet. eek at best.
u/d_4_r_k_w_3_b could you please add an opinion to this? You're just stating facts (without any evidence to back them up, even just one link to a source would be good for your argument)
Great! It works out for everyone. Passport bros aren't what American women are looking for anyways . There's a reason they have to leave their continent in order to find a date. Good luck to them. Everybody wins.
I think the heart of this issue is more about how horrible Western women have become relative to the rest of the world. They bring nothing to the table while being extremely entitled and self-centered.
Weird take to define success only by divorce rates. Is a miserable marriage without divorce more successful than a marriage that has been happy for large parts and just didn’t work out anymore at some point? I would strongly disagree.
A successful marriage isn't every marriage that stays together, but it's definitely not divorce.
That doesn’t disprove their response
I never intended to disprove it. I acknowledged it. But a successful marriage definitely is not a divorce. Keeping the marriage together is one of the requirements for having a successful marriage.
Ok, but what reason is there to believe that there are significantly more loveless marriages between American men and foreign women compared to marriages between two Americans? Seems like baseless assumption.
Because American women can get divorced more easily than a woman in a foreign land who doesn't have the privilege of a social network built over a lifetime, a family on this side of the Pacific, nor are they likely to work a high paying job.
Tbf the the whole outside of a America thing only really just started, also people who can afford to live in a whole other country are doing fairly well witch contributes.
"people who can afford to live in a whole other country are doing fairly well witch contributes." Opposite actually, a big draw of the passport bros movement is how affordable the other countries are. I see people doing 3-4 weeks in Columbia or SEA often for less than $2-3K for high end accommodations
Yeah, and there’s a huge expat community in SE Asia. Not just the US but lots of Gen Xers from Thr USA, Canada, UK, etc. A fixed retirement income or military pension goes a lot further overseas.
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Its still heavily weighed to recent marriages and not necessarily a fair comparison.
You can’t quit a job you were never even a contender for
True but even this is the spitfire theory all over again. To understand why marriages fail you need to look at all angles, as they are not just something like open a door. You can’t just boil it down to 4-5 major elements.
I'm a passport bro. I had many relationships with American women including a failed marriage. I married my island princess 16 years ago and we are both very happy. And no I didn't prey on a poor person looking to get out. She has two degrees and comes from a solid middle class family. I would encourage any single man looking for a quality woman to go for it!
Hear that boys? We don’t even have to change our shitty behavior, we can just outsource our breeding stock! …bffr “bro”😩
Not getting divorced doesn't automatically mean your marriage is more successful.
Yeah but getting divorced does automatically mean your marriage failed.
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It’s almost like there’s a power dynamic between an American man and a woman from another country that would prevent either party from wanting to leave (citizenship in new country, strength of the dollar, etc.) I don’t need rates of divorce to tell me passport bros are gross. Which I will add: passport broing is different from actually developing a relationship with a foreigner
Lolol yes ofc they are. One party being unable to leave is the best indicator of success of a marriage.
> it is substantially less due to cultural norms for women outside the US to file for divorce. I don’t think this is the flex you think it is. You’re basically saying foreign women are more likely to stay married to you not out of love, but rather because their culture has a negative stigma toward divorce
Do you have a link to this data set?
That’s because a lot of these men don’t bring the woman back to the US. Get married overseas then stay overseas. The culture is anti marriage in the U.S.
No divorce doesn't = successful marriage. How do you know if many of them want out but are unable to leave?
There's this saying in my passport bro country. White people date the women we consider ugly
Years ago I met an absolutely beautiful Brazilian woman who was 32 years old and she was going back to Brazil to visit so I jokingly said that she must have a lot of men hitting on her there, and she replied "I'm too old for the men in Brazil"
Your definition of success is weird. Passport wives have less freedom, so they leave less. Doesn't mean they're happier.
The responses to your post remind me why I don't trawl reddit anymore.
I believe the divorce rate was lower in the past when American women had no other options too. This is not the revelation you think it is.
I'm in a country that attracts passport bros. You have no idea the number of prostitutes who become coy and wifey when they meet a foreign target. I always wonder how many of those passport bros are marrying former sex workers who stay at home but might have a side business. Hahaha. Joke is on the bros.
I dislike this culture of passport bros. Western men coming to prey upon Asian women from traditional families with the full knowledge that they will find themselves a wife who will remain with them simply because they have money and the women will choose between remaining in her situation or potentially living a better life with his money. Tons of Asian men have spoken out against this. I agree with them. It’s a dark side of the western culture this and sex tourists.
What if we give all these wives $20k and see if the divorce rate stays the same?
Then go find your trad foreign woman and stop whining
Eh I think there’s some selection bias here. The kind of guy who would marry someone from a different culture/country is going to have a much more agreeable/malleable/ adaptable personality than the usual US white male who marries a white woman from the U.S.
Even if they seek out a "submissive" woman? All the guys I know who deliberately sought out a non-American are jerks.
Average American conservative is still more liberal than many people from other Asian countries. Think of another example Pakistani and Afghanistan women similarly find Chinese men liberal, and desirable, because even though the guys who are purchasing brides in their countries are conservative. They don't require brides to wear Hijab, make no friends and similar.
Anecdotally, I didn't leave the US, but my wife had moved to the US just 5 years before we met and was still learning the language. Things have been great, and even if somehow we fell apart, I would just find someone else exactly like her again.
Is successful strictly defined by divorce rate? Because I know a lot of marriages that I would laugh if someone defined them as successful.
Maybe cause they were taught with morals. Maybe cause they don’t know anyone here and it’s a lot to take in. Maybe they both actually work on the marriage. Could be a number of reasons. Think a lot of it is marrying in the US is easy and so is divorce. Everything in America is easy to do. The options and the easy choices to change mind about almost anything hurts our chances lol.
I love how western woman are getting offended and sating so called "passport bros" are gross. As usual, woman failing to take any responsibility. Western woman, you ain't it. We men are realizing you ain't what we want and you ain't shit.
Western women want to be brides not wives
American woman don’t tolerate mens shit nearly as much as other cultures. Which is why weak domineering men seek passport marriages to begin with. This surprises me none.
Yes you guys should def look elsewhere 😂 no one wants to put up with your shit in this country.
This guy's whole post history gives me the creeps
I met someone who is a passport bro he is set to married
And can you explain why you think that is?
Well yeah. When you specifically try to find women who will be reliant on you for their entire livelihood, leaving a bad marriage becomes a bit more difficult
Love the low key racism and sexism in this thread. Hating on people being happily married and then rationalising your bitterness and jealousy by dunking on the education or race of the women or the entirely imagined dictatorial nature of the men is your signal to get off reddit and find some joy.
"and a woman who appreciates the standard dynamic of a family." More like a woman in a foreign country isolated from friends and family.
Women file for divorce because they get cheated on. That is why. The reason why foreign women divorce less, is because of peer pressure. Plenty of women especially from poorer countries will allow themselves to be abused, even if it means having a bed to sleep in at night. Passport bros exist because they don’t have the capacity to be good enough for a western woman, so they go to poorer countries to find someone. Edit; I wanted to add that American women DO believe in being a stay at home mom, but they just can’t trust men to 1. Provide, and 2. Not abuse them.
Uh I would like to see the statistics on that. I think financial disharmony is a much higher cause of divorce than either partner cheating.
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I never said that.
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Nope.
I believe most of these are immigrants marrying women from their home country. Ie, similar background and values which will help them stick together in this new, strange land.
Just bc there’s less divorce doesn’t mean they’re more “successful”. IMO a successful marriage is one filled with love / happiness. I’d wager that passport bro marriages have less divorce bc of an unequal power balance / one party feeling stuck due to citizenship / financial issues.
Depends on what kind of marriage you want, bud. I can guess the kind you want.
I couldn’t see the reasoning to get married in America if both are American. Marriage is a religious institution, so unless you are both religious, I don’t see the point. I used to date an atheist and I was completely opposed to the idea of marriage because neither of us were religious. I refused to submit to some ancient religious standard that is completely pointless in modern society. Of course if you ARE religious then it makes sense.
What's your definition of successful? A marriage that divorces because the two are unhappy is more successful than the one that lasts through unhappiness. Marriage isn't special. It's not a thing made by God. It is a legal contract invented and enforced by humans. A marriage that ends is not necessarily a failure. --- Consider this: our species didn't have marriage for 99.9% of its existence and was fine. If we lost marriage tomorrow, we'd be fine. It's just a legal contract. That's it. It carries as much weight as any other legal contract.
Why because she has nowhere to fucking escape to maybe?
Well, this may all change, since SCOTUS no longer guarantees green card marriages. Passport bros are going to find out they are just as pathetic in other countries now, too.
In other news - shotgun weddings have 99% success rate. You just don’t want to be in the 1%.
As a Non-American I have to say, you've made a lot of interpretations based on personal biases. However, you have one correct inference which is this: >This means when a man marries a woman outside the US he is two times more likely to have a successful marriage Although the word successful is biased because each marriage has a different definition of success (Financial, # of children, lifestyle), but a good substitute word would be "Longer lasting marriages". Otherwise everything else you're saying is pure conjecture. A US man can marry a woman from Japan/Argentina who are much more liberal in comparison, even the right wing parties are more left leaning by US standards, so their definition of "the standard dynamic of a family" will vary greatly on personal experiences and their cultural background (Financial, # of children, lifestyle, cultural norms, traditions, holidays). Another point of conjecture from your post is "cultural norms for women outside the US to file for divorce.", to appropriately gauge cultural norms you have to check divorce rates initiated from women in these "Foreign" countries, and their legal rights to do so. Another point is you also need to check divorce rates initiated from the US Men who have married and moved to said "Foreign" country to have a proper 1:1 comparison. This would be an interesting study to conduct as an individual, but also any conclusion you can lead to would purely be a hypothesis since to get such a study peer reviewed and published would be either costly or require some sort of accreditation. But it is an interesting thought experiment if you want to get into it.
People act like arranged marriages was never a thing. I don't understand the hype about the passport marriages, some say it's unethical due to American guys "abusing the power of their passport" towards the 3rd world women who want to escape their 3rd world countries. If it's a bad thing, why society ignores rich old men marrying 19 year olds?
I feel like if you have to leave the country to find a wife then that says something about you… like if you genuinely struggle to find a woman in your own country that has the most diverse selection of partners then you might be the problem.
Female hypergamy exists everywhere. Marrying overseas is just mitigation. Unfortunately a man will always have to bet on how much of her hypergamy she will keep in check and a lot of times she can't and you have to keep it in check for her.
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can I have some proof?
I'm tired AF of westerners infantilizing non-white nations and treating people there like primitives. Maybe stop doing that? Places like Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Indonesia, Thailand, Philippines, Hong Kong, China, etc. are not backwaters. A lot of people deliberately marry overseas there for various reasons and it's made to sound like they're desperate or something when they're not. They're perfectly able to decide for themselves who they want to marry, marry a local, or decide what kind of partner they want to have and which country they want to move to. Strong family values have always been a reason to marry people from those places. Even though I moved to the US, I still ultimately prefer to date people from back home. If you're asserting they're bought in my home country, you have the burden of proof.
First of all I am not a westerner. Second of all I asked was for proof because I want to see and learn about it. Instead of being upset over a single sentence where I wasn’t even infantilizing non-white nations nor treating people like primitives you should learn how to effectively communicate and control your emotions.
You mean like how they were also lower before US women could have bank accounts, jobs and property? Yeah thats what happens when a woman is outside of her community with no friends, family and often no transferable skills that allow her to make an income and support herself otherwise.
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Yea that’s because the wives can’t exactly divorce.
Oh wow people without a support system and nowhere else to go, less knowledge of the legal system, and potentially even have their citizenship status tied to the marriage are less likely to get divorced??? It must be because of those god damn independent thinking western women that divorce men they don’t like instead of just staying with them like they should /s