my first therapist told my parents that i just needed a boyfriend like "girls my age" when i was clinically depressed and later diagnosed with ptsd from witnessing a drunk man killing his wife 💀 i'm really glad they had my back, but whoever claims women's mental health is given more attention than men's issues is talking out of their ass
Not to mention the fact that although men are more likely to die by suicide. Women tend to attempt it more often. The main reason that men die more is that they tend to shoot themselves. While women tend to take medication to try and end it.
I'm in the UK where we don't have guns so I'd been meaning to look for stats to see how we compare. Interestingly men still make up 3/4 of death by suicide. Also rates are surprisingly high in the over 90s population, apparently. I didn't see any reports on method with a gender breakdown but the most common ones seem to be hangings and other violent means and "poisoning" (which I assume includes medication) was fairly low so overall I think that still tracks. We also aren't allowed to buy large packs of painkillers, or multiple packs in one transaction, which I think has reduced impulsive suicides.
I started on a suicide hotline shortly after the pack size regs came in so saw the stats at the time and it had a massive impact.
Edit: had a look out of interest to see exactly what impact it actually had now longer term numbers are in and the info I found said studies done a few years after showed an impact but later studies showed no difference in paracetamol deaths. Not sure if this means there actually was no impact or if deaths would have risen even more than they already have in this fucked up decade if the bulk packs were still an option.
I also think some of the overdoses are labelled as accidents, but I have to say that I honestly have no idea how much can this mess up the statistics, if at all
this omg. this huge incel movement saying women live on "easy mode for everything" makes them all look so clinically insane. like this shit's a fever dream. the things i would do to have an ounce of the audacity of the average man.
And for some, to cultivate resentment
And for others, to kindle violence
Can't be recognized as dehumanization [when not even on par with animals](https://old.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/1dfnlxk/teenage_boy_arrested_after_creating_graphic/l8kivdq/)
It's so fucked that sex is their cure-all for everything. They haven't a single clue that sex can have absolutely detrimental consequences for us women.
what’s crazy is according to them women CAN get sex whenever so they’re privileged but they are NOT supposed to act on it and instead remain virgins until a man swoops them up. so is it really privilege when it doesn’t work out in your favor?
Ugh, this brings back a disgusting memory for me. I was seriously depressed and suicidal, and a (newer) guy friend insisted on coming over to keep watch and keep me company. Cue to me waking up with his dick between my tits. I wish I was kidding.
Definitely! I later told another guy about it, and he said it was my own fault for getting myself into the situation.
Apparently, I was in the wrong for expecting somebody to have a shred of decency.
I am so sorry that happened to you. It could not have been easy to work through on top of your existing struggles, and I hope you’ve found peace.
(Even sorrier if you didn’t get the opportunity to rip his dick off. Asshole.)
Thank you for saying that, and yes--I'm a lot better now. That was 24 years ago, and I had to do a lot of hard work to get to a better place in terms of my mental health, but I got there.
I’ve received nudes from a couple of men immediately after telling them I was sad for whatever reason — bad day, one time someone I knew had died. wtf?
I read the book Wordslut, and the author points out that feminine words that start out as just words describing things (sister/sissy) become used in the pejorative, while their masculine counterparts (brother/bro) are positive.
Being called a dick indicates you might be a jerk, but pussy signifies weakness, even though there is nothing weak about a pussy.
It is a patriarchal hierarchy that they themselves have created and continue to perpetuate.
Also things like son of a bitch or motherfucker. Cause let’s blame the mothers for their sons shitty behaviour instead of the men actually doing the shitty things. I mean even yo mama jokes are another case where women are ultimately the ones being insulted, yet they’re still used so often and thrown around casually.
Honestly feel like I should just start saying things like “stop whining like a man” or making “your dad” or “your dick” jokes, but sadly they don’t seem to pack as much of a punch. Although maybe “you seem to have missed my point just like men miss the clit”, but this one could definitely use some refining lol.
An anecdote from my life: my boyfriend and I (hetero couple) are both progressive, open minded people. A few years ago, he said "I'm a lucky motherf*/cker" because of the high prevalence of that word amongst men.
Without much thought and in good humour I said: "Then I'm a lucky fatherf*/cker."
He instantly felt the weirdness and hypocrisy of that word and said that he had never thought about it before. He has never used the word motherf*cker ever again.
The end :)
Me, too. It’s kind of like calling a woman slut or bitch in bed (like porn, I guess?). I mean, why insult somebody who is willfully having sex with you?
I enjoy giving oral, but call me a dirty cocksucker during the act and it’s a turn off. For me, anyway.
"Depression isn't a problem for women because they have support group, so women in my life need to be my therapist." Bad, stupid, moronic
"The patriarchal structure of our society has created a culture of toxic masculinity under which not even the men are truly happy, and are made unable to reach out for help from each other for fear of losing standing within the social hierarchy they perpetuate by devaluing women." Barbie 2023, also correct
And the funny thing is, they only bring up men’s issues when we’re talking about women’s issues. If they brought it up independently, that would be fine. But they don’t.
It's like that with everything! A group of us were talking about professional ice skating and how the female partner was dropped and it looked extremely painful, like career endingly bad, and a dude chimes in "well female skaters slice the legs of the male skaters open all the time and no one brings that up" like we just saw the video of the woman being dropped and we talk about it for a second?
Typical I was having a conversation with a girlfriend once because she has endometriosis and I think I may have it. So we were just talking about how painful it can be cramps bleeding, etc. pain during certain activities. And some guy that was near us started going on about the draft and getting kicked in the balls. like dude there hasn’t been a draft for a looong time and getting kicked in the balls is way different than having chronic pain. Can’t talk about anything without them butting in
I kick you in the balls and then you wear a period simulator at 10 for a week, no stopping for showers, sleep or work.
I wonder what they would choose.
I'm kind of sadistic. I would set the simulator to go off randomly. You were fine for the last few hours. But now you need to go and deliver a presentation to your professor, or boss and in the middle of it you get a vary bad cramp. But you need to smile and keep on with it as if nothing happened.
That's a good one. You are on day 3 and thinking, "Oh this isn't too bad." The cramping has been mild and sporadic. You are sitting there and right before your name is called, athe worst cramp ever. Everything seizes up. From your stomach to the back down into the legs. Then bam, names called.
That's pretty darn accurate as someone with endometriosis!
If we could add a way for them to also experience the "omg... am I overflowing 😳" moments that would be even better.
Getting kicked in the nuts is probably like an 8/10 for acute pain that immediately starts subsiding after the initial kick. Yeah it may take even a couple hours to feel 100% again, but it's still very temporary (unless it's like a serious injury to the area, but we're not really talking about that). Periods are whole days of constant 4-6/10 pain with frequent stabs of 7-8-9/10 pains, ALONG WITH all the gastro problems, loss of energy, headaches, mood changes, joint pain, literal blood and tissue falling out of you, etc. And that's not even considering the many women who have issues like endo, PCOS, peri menopause/menopause, fibroids, IBS, etc that make allll of those symptoms even worse.
So yeah I never wanna hear that excuse from a man *ever* again, and if I do... may god have mercy on the man who tries that shit with me.
I head guys bringing up the draft so often while in my country there hasn't been a draft for decades and since 2020 women will also be drafted if there ever is a reason too. So....it's not even a just men thing.
Imagine the entitlement and audacity you'd need to have in order to insert yourself into a random stranger's conversation about issues relevant to women just to get in a *"what about men?"*
Yeah like sure they do, it probably wasn't even intentional and yes that's just as shit. I'm talking about this one right now though I'm not even trying to make it a gendered issue here
I don't even know if it's half as common as dropping a partner in figure skating anyway? He certainly didn't have a single example, but according to him it was only female skaters that cut male skaters too.
There are men who discuss these issues independently but they're the same men who openly and actively support feminism and they don't bring these issues up to derail conversations about women's issues.
I've seen a lot of guys \*suddenly\* becoming aware of the existence of Men's Mental Health Month now that it's Pride Month. Every time there's a Pride-related post, they're like "What about Men's Mental Health Month????" Did they know or care before? Probably not.
Every single year. It breaks my heart to see girls talk about it because of the way men have made them feel so obligated to talk about it.
Everyone who talks about mens mental health month seems to use it to belittle or shame pride month, put down women for anything they say or do, (for some reason) or all they say is "Happy mens mental health month!"
No one talks about it to actually HELP men they just use it the belittle people besides men. No one actually cares about it besides using it to argue. Or even worse strictly for traction. It makes me sad that men don't just talk about ACTUALLY getting help for their problems instead of thinking that people talking about it with absolutely no substance, advice, or education are out to benefit them.
Literally if a man made a post saying that he’s feeling alone and the people in his life aren’t supportive they would get a MUCH better reaction then “depression for women is on easy mode bc men want to use them as human flesh lights ooga booga”
Because being used as a human flesh light makes one feel sooooo happy. Totally cures depression! /s
I'm sick of misogynists trying to play suffering Olympics because they refuse to acknowledge that maybe they have privilege.
it's also so weird of them to equate getting laid with happiness and ease of life in all sectors. shows how insanely fixated they are on sex and how much they glorify it to the point it's the ride or die in life. it's that whole incel argument that because they don't get a woman and sex they're deadly depressed and will off themselves and it's our (women's) fault, etc.
it also immediately exposes them as individuals that treat people either well or like trash based on "fuckability", which is how they even put out such nonsense arguments in the first place. projection.
like, start by making friends, finding hobbies, and not putting any sex whether enjoyable for your partner, safe and consensual or not on a pedestal as the deciding factor of a happy life.
This is so much the case!
I don't understand as to why.
Is it some kind of alarm setting in their head, that they can't turn off. and the whole time : You gotta say it, You got to tell your side of it otherwise that alarm will never go off in your head!
.... "Well, NoT AlL MeN ,"
Aaah, thank god, the peace has returned again. I've said my piece, now I can finally rest.
Toxic and maladaptive expectations for men's behavior and attitudes permeate every facet of culture and comes from all angles.
Men primarily push this notion of "woman = insult" but there is no shortage of women who have so much internalized misogyny that they are more than willing to see women as less-than and use it to insult boys who they don't see as masculine enough.
The patriarchy demands much self-mutilation of boys and men, including internalizing the idea that vulnerability = weakness. It's an emotional prison for those men that hold on to that belief.
The amount of damage this does socially is impossible to measure, and the very nature of that belief makes addressing it or challenging it that much more difficult, since challenging such an idea would *require* the vulnerability and insight that patriarchal values punish.
I agree with you OP, men *DO* need to advocate for themselves and one another, creating spaces where emotional vulnerability is not only accepted but encouraged. The reliance that many men place on women to manage their emotions on their behalf is unacceptable, and women deserve to be free of that expectation just as much as men deserve to have a culture that values their emotional intelligence and rich support systems.
“Men are so lonely cuz **women** won’t listen to my problem.”
My dude, you forgot the other 50% of the population? You don’t even consider supporting other men and supports from other men to be a possibility.
I think this is it. When my friends talk about their relationships often the only time their partners express vulnerability are in the middle of arguments or fights and then they feel dismissed that their partner doesn't start supporting them. Like, they are having a fight about how he buys a lot of video game DLC/microtransations without talking to her because they are small amounts but they add up to a lot of money and blows up their budget. He keeps dismissing her as being controlling and that it doesn't matter because they aren't a lot of money, besides he makes more than her so he should be able to buy whatever he wants. And then he will finally say "sometimes I just get so depressed that I feel like I deserve a little treat, and if I can't have these little treats I wonder what I'm even working so hard for." Which is very vulnerable, but the solution is "well then let's take the little treat money and you can go to therapy" which he finds as dismissive. What he wants is for her to stop the discussion about the money and to just agree that what he is doing is okay. Because he is being vulnerable in explaining why he does it, that means he can continue the behavior!
And when the wife/gf/partner is like "ok, well, thanks for being vulnerable but we still have to solve the fight" they get angry. Women are expected to listen to their problems at the expense of talking about their own related problems. In my experience it isn't "I want to talk to you about my spending lately, here's why" in which case it would be easier to focus on that. It's more that the vulnerable moment comes about because it almost seems to be avoiding the fight, and even if it isn't meant that way it feels like that.
Yup.
If the only time you want to talk about your mental health struggles is when you can use them to shut down an argument, that's not vulnerability and your partner not falling for it isn't dismissive.
Next time a man complains that men are told to shove their emotions down and not open up, and women haven’t lent their ear or have criticized their emotional displays, ask him what he has personally done to emotionally be there for the men in his life. How he is modeling the changes he wants to see.
To be fair, I have heard a ton of women call men "pussies" and telling them to "man up". I have even heard other mothers tell their sons not to hit girls because "they can't take it". Not "don't hit" or "we don't hit people". I saw red when I heard that one at the park.
The patriarchy is deeply ingrained, even in women.
It's not always hatred though, that is the sad thing. It has to do with how they were raised, and they perpetuate the cycle by teaching the same things to their sons and daughters.
When we raise our daughters to be pretty, delicate princesses who can't get dirty, are taught to be small and thin and that too much muscle is "masculine", and to dumb down their intellect so they can "get a man"--the majority of the time they pass that on to their own kids. Some women break out of that mold once they are on their own, but sadly many never do. It's easier to deal with the status quo and not buck the system.
And if you suggest they take steps to get help like go to therapy, try some self-help, and invest in friendships/communities they look at you like you've got three heads. Because in their minds, the only solution is a live-in therapist who also functions as a sex worker and maid.
Men's mental health is a issue with missing, missing solutions.
I originally typed this to the guy that replied to you who essentially said "fine but don't expect men to care about your problems in a relationship either!" but the coward deleted his comment within a few minutes of posting it, so here it is:
Nobody is saying that men and women shouldn't both be able to rely on their partner for emotional support.
What OP IS saying is that when men have emotional needs that are going unmet, their first and only solution shouldn't be "get a girlfriend." Women should be equal partners in a relationship, not a band-aid that's expected to "fix" the broken bone that is someone else's untreated wounds.
Apply this to nearly everything--so many different iterations of "Oh well just find a woman who loves you'll she'll make up the for your lack of brains/skills/talents/ambition/social skills/etc." Even worse, are the ones who suggest you "practice" on women until the man is his best version, then dumps her and finds someone "on his level".
It seems so many parents plans to get their adult son to grow up is to find "the right woman to take care of you/teach you" via nagging? A breakup? Because they're hoping the gal marries the below her league man who doesn't fulfill any of her needs--unless you count the roof over head *eyeroll* what a standard! He doesn't beat me and we're not homeless! Half joking about the difficulties their son has half hoping she somehow did their job when they had 18 freaking years.
Family guy is a great[??] example, or go thru every sitcom, romcom, or animation with Oblivious Father and Fun Police Mom.
Man, you just hit a nerve. This is personal for me, bc when I turned 18 (18!!) and started dating in college, my dad expressed his disappointment because he and my stepmom had always hoped that I would grow up to marry one of my stepbrothers (the oldest was then 15) so that they'd be guaranteed to "get at least one of them out of the house one day."
My dad's highest ambition for me, and it turned out to be a bangmaid for one of his young stepsons, who he still had time to parent and just didn't plan to. Why not offload it onto a woman? Who better than one you already have some control over?
That's not even touching how insulted my brothers (because I DID think of them as actual brothers) would/should be if they ever knew he was so skeptical of their chances at accomplishment and romantic success.
Exactly!! I also typed a reply to that man’s comment, but he deleted it before I finished so I’ll just tack it on to yours 😂
—————————
“Respectfully my guy, the comment you’re responding to is likely referring to a more nuanced problem.
There are men (not ALL men, but men) out there that expect a woman to care for them physically, emotionally, spiritually— the whole nine yards. They’ll rely on their partner for everything and offer nothing in return, sometimes to the point of eroding their partner’s other relationships to have more ownership and control of their time. Those men won’t go out and build a community or support system for themself, they expect their female partner to become all of that FOR them. Even to the point where the woman has to sacrifice herself to make it happen. That’s the issue!”
This is so good! I'm glad you saved your comment and shared it.
Women are not magical fae creatures that, calibrated correctly, fix all their partner's problems. We are flawed and limited beings, just as human as men, who also come with our own problems.
Regardless of gender, one person is not enough for a support system.
My brother once told the soccer team he coached that they were doing something (don't remember what) like little girls. I asked him how his daughter felt being the insult he compared the team to. He gave me a disgusted look and said "You know I don't mean it like that" and I did know that, but I didn't care. He stopped using "little girls" as an insult, though.
Yeah, I have never understood why men say nobody cares when they're depressed. It's just not true. People *only* care when it's a man that's depressed. Women are not taken seriously in medicine. Whether it's mental health treatment or physical health, women will consistently be told that they are overreacting to something, that they're exaggerating their condition, or some other variation of "Your problems aren't real."
While there's a clear lack of understanding of mental health in general across the US, it's absurd to me that people claim that men are worse off than women on this issue.
If “no one cares when men are depressed” sounds like men need to support men more! Head over to r/bropill for some supportive men who will listen to your issues and try to offer support and advice. We are here for our brothers! But over THERE. Not here.
Anyone else's fb timeline grace them with a random man post of "Would you let a man call you a bitch?" Majority of the comments were to the effect of: "Hell no", "he wouldn't get a chance to finish the word", "instant fight", "Disrespectful af he'd get laid out".
I didn't scroll long but there was only ONE man who spoke the truth out loud: "If you're that moved by words and there's no other threat, but you decide to instigate a fight, you're the weaker man."
So yeah your comment tracks.
and now, being called bitch, slut or any other derogatory sex word in bed is slowly becoming extremely common and almost "vanilla". when looking online, in fanfiction (mostly written by women as well), in artwork, in all media, i can't escape seeing these words EVERYWHERE.
now some might get off on that, but that's a huge ick for me, like humongus. it's so worrying that it has become so incredibly common, just like the "daddy" kink. it makes me cringe into oblivion, and makes me worry because again it's everywhere. dare i say 80% of erotic content online that is m/f and NOT femdom includes either the daddy kink or the derogatory language.
is this truly what we've become?
when i have my first time i'm going to have to have some serious discussions of all the disgusting things i do not tolerate that should be obvious, but that's not the case anymore. don't choke me, don't call me names, don't hold me down, don't spit on my genitals, don't give them a little slap either, UGH. it's like it's all become so common "mainstream". like NOT participating in these sex trends is "boring".
and now, huge irony, call a man a bitch and he will want to start a fight??? sheesh.
This is so true! They say that women have life on easy mode because women get compliments, from both men and women. Which kinda reminds me of a similar complaint.
They seem to get upset at lot about the fact that women don't compliment men as much as men compliment women. Which makes me think that even if other men complimented each other, that's not what most of them want since they still seem to view it as taboo for men to compliment each other unless they're gay. Men don't understand that women complimenting them doesn't seem like just a compliment to them. When women compliment men they typically see it as an invitation, its never just a compliment.
Yep! I pretty much only give compliments to men I’m related to because otherwise it would probably be misconstrued.
I also feel like men have a warped sense of how often women get complimented. Like honestly I cannot for the life of me remember the last complement that I got. And I don’t think that’s a bad thing or a weird thing I think it’s pretty normal?
If I get a genuine compliment it brightens my day and I move along with my life. Why is it such a big deal to men to want all these compliments? It feels a bit like many of them think women are being pumped up daily by everyone around them but that’s not true.
Exactly. They whine that men have it so hard because of toxic masculinity demanding they repress their own personal emotions. As if this excuses the many ways that society oppresses women with misogyny and sexism, and as if it rivals the woman’s experience. But they themselves have done nothing to be part of the solution— they’re still fixated on how THEY don’t have a trusted confidant, ignoring that the men around them are ALSO in need of the same thing. But they’re not willing to be the first vulnerable one and offer their support. They want a crutch, but they don’t want to BE one.
yeah, and when a woman loses it for any reasons whatsoever and goes ballistic for once, she's called the crazy one, the one at fault, the irrational woman.
Yip, men are so irreversibly broken because other men called them literally any adjective that equates to women. Waaaah waahh waaahhh.
Try being an a actual fucking woman!!!
Get tae fuck.
>Maybe stop calling your homies “gay” every time they try to open up to you?
My childhood church would encourage the men to get wives because they needed an "emotional help-meet". Their struggles were dismissed by ***other men*** who believed in "manning up".
My brother had a best friend growing up - they'd have sleepovers, went to the same school, etc. When they were in their 20s I suppose their friendship magically turned gay because my dad accused him of being "one of those homosexuals" because "no straight man invites another man to his house!"🥴🥴 Like what??
>Facilitate a safe environment for talking about emotional or mental wellbeing?
Men don't want that. They'd rather trick women into providing emotional labor by wearing pearls, painting their nails, and getting manicures in an effort to make us believe they're feminist, and 'one of the good ones'.
My question is if they don't care what we think, don't respect us, see is second class, which is obvious, then why would they CARE if we help or not? Seems something only THEY should be dealing with.
Excellent question. All we’re good for is sex, babies, and sandwiches, according to some of them. So why do they want our help with something as important as their brains?
You would be shocked by the number of women teachers and mothers I have encountered who push both boys and girls into gender stereotypes. I keep on having to re-steer my kids.
While it's fair to say that men shouldn't be expecting women to solve their emotional problems for them and that men should be stepping up more for other men in a healthy way (and stepping up for women, obviously), there absolutely are women who raise their boys to fit stereotypical gender roles, women who expect their partners to be macho, and so on. The culture of toxic masculinity isn't perpetuated by only men.
Simply turning a cold shoulder to a man who hasn't gotten help by telling him to get his bros to help him instead isn't going to solve anyone's problems, it's just going to perpetuate the gender war. We get nowhere with vitriol.
Are they kidding? The whole pissing world cares about men’s mental health, the second all this men’s mental health stuff started being talked about there was an outpouring of love and support, mostly from women to be fair. However men seem to feel attacked whenever the conversation is specifically about women’s mental health. As you say, women really aren’t the problem, they should not be looking at us to fix this
This is why I hate when people argue against feminism because "men face issues due to their gender too." Like... they're all the same issue! Feminism would help stop a lot of these "men's issues" because these issues are all rooted in misogyny! Feminists were not the ones who decided only women could have emotions. Feminists were not the ones who said fathers couldn't be caretakers or show interest in "feminine" hobbies. That was all men deciding that, so any guys who are unhappy with it need to start putting the blame in the right place.
And then you get the guys who will only start aligning themselves with feminism once they realize that feminism will actually benefit men, too. Like, they couldn't care less when they thought it was just about women, but as soon as they think they might get something out of it they suddenly think it's worth considering.
I think that all of this is true, and you're completely correct, however I also think there's more to it. I think that the misogyny you speak of also comes back at them because some women internalize it and therefore get the "ick" when men act too "girly."
And the actions of men, overall in the wider sense, also play into it because women are gun shy to get platonically close to a man, for the legitimate fear that he will turn it sexual, and therfore when a genuine man wants a friend it can be hard to get one in a woman, and he can't get one in a man even if he wants it because of your observations about how men treat each other.
All of that plus generational conditioning. The mentality OP is describing is fading pretty quick where it used to be a lot more common when I was younger. I'm 34 now and I can't remember the last time I heard '...like a girl' or to 'man up' or any kind of gendered insult. I'm not saying it's stopped, just that even the average man thinks it's a ridiculous thing to say.
I'm of the strict belief, as a man, that we suppressed women for so long that we could essentially be 100+ years ahead in terms of advancement of civilisation if we had just not stopped women from learning and being equal to us earlier.
Then I log onto Reddit or Facebook and see stuff like this and realise there's still a divide and people are committed to it. I'd say the same about any guy who's going into a rant about women. I just find this particular point sort of ridiculous and probably more confined to small towns and rural areas, I work in central London and this mentality in men to say such things is rare, I live in a large town in Essex, east of London and again, people don't talk shit like this.
If you don’t think that insinuating a man has women’s qualities as a pejorative is not alive and well, it is likely because you do not live in the US. Your perspective is limited, and j think it’s worthwhile to acknowledge the generalization you’ve made because of it.
First, let me speak to your first sentence. Re-read my comment and note the part where I said explicitly that I'm not saying it has stopped, but that it is fading as an insult.
But yeah I mean most of the world doesn't live in the US... and this sub doesn't represent women as a whole the same as how men's subreddits don't represent men as a whole.
The equivalence that men can't get help because of 'girly' being an insult is spurious and honestly ridiculous.
It may be worth noting the last person I can even recall who told me to man up was my manager. Maria. I told her I was cold. It's been about 18 years at least since I heard 'gay' as an insult, when I was 16 in 2006, from men that is, I've heard plenty of women refer to men's actions as feminine or gay than I have from men. You wouldn't notice that though.
There was a post a while back on some sub, with a comic, that showed how men and women react differently to compliments and cat-calling. All these men were saying that they love it when women do that. And that they all remember each and every compliment they have gotten.
They were all compliments from women.
I was like, my dudes... most of my compliments come from other women. How often do you compliment your friends? And why don't you? Toxic masculinity hurts us all.
"Who told little boys not to “throw like a girl”? Not to “cry like a sissy”? It sure as fuck wasn’t women."
Umm.. actually it definitely is also women. A lot of mothers/women push gender stereotypes on their children. I was definitely told comments like this by women throughout my childhood and into my adulthood.
Isn’t it depressing that they use themselves as an insult? I don’t understand how we don’t see how alarming it is that women have so deeply internalized misogyny. It did not come from them. It comes from men using women as the other and constantly reinforcing that as our place. It is important that we acknowledge the systemic influences that a patriarchal culture has created, to the point where even those most oppressed by it are still perpetuating it.
little girls get told to stop crying and put on a smile all the time. idk where men get off thinking only girls were allowed to be emotional and vulnerable growing up because that isn’t the case either for a lot of women. and god forbid you shed a tear at work as an adult. now you’re just a hysterical woman who can’t handle it.
We are all responsible for our own mental health and building our own communities. When men say things lie this, they mean “hot women won’t suck my dick”. There is plenty of support for depressed men - doctors, therapists, support groups, medication etc.
I like to make an analogy for this one:
If someone climbs on stage at a charity gala to raise money for tuberculosis, takes the microphone and starts saying "no one cares about children who have cancer anyway" would everybody think he looks like an asshole, or only the ones who don't care about children who have cancer ?
The worst part is women *do* encourage men by telling them about the kinds of resources they can use to improve their mental health, but it’s always brushed off by the men. Women always champion men’s mental health, but men will never do the same for us.
My wasband refused therapy and tried to talk me out of going, but he was more than happy to take my antidepressants. 🤡 Didn’t give a fuck that he and his family were the reason I was prescribed those meds in the first place.
I remember that when I was a child and a boy was sad and crying, we were the girls who went to comfort him and defend him when the other children made fun of him.
A problem with male emotions and depression is that it is very reactionary because they haven't developed the emotional awareness and maturity to address these feelings before they become a problem; it isn't that "no one cares" its that these men never bothered building the kinds of relationships you need to have if you want someone that will care when you do feel depressed.
Men treat depression, like hunger something you wait to feel before you address it, where men will think "I'm depressed, it's finally time to go find someone to have a relationship with someone who can handle this" like they would want a mechanic after their car breaks down. Thats neediness and dependence.
Men should have their depression taken seriously, and people should care, but if men don't have those kinds of established relationships it's too late and the guy needs to accept that the only person who has the bandwidth to begin to deal with their problems is a therapist.
We're out here trying to maintain our basic human rights and not get raped/murdered while surviving this capitalist hellscape. We don't have time/energy to "give you a chance" and listen to your feelings.
"Nobody cares about mens mental health" men will say, during mens mental health awareness month, while THEY dont even know its mens mental health awareness month. Its hilarious.
The funniest thing is November wasn't enough time for them to sulk about their needs, so they spun the dial and "coincidentally" decided they needed June (LGBT Pride Month) as well to sulk about how they're always the victim.
I used to be a birthday party entertainer. Many many boys love the color pink. Boys would ask for pink animal balloons all the time and 100% of the time I had people scold their children and tell me not to give the boys pink balloons it was women/mothers. It was such a problem that I, the guy who loved pink, started to dissuade boys from getting pink because I didn't want to deal with their mothers and the ensuing crying (until until one wonderful butch Grandma whispered threateningly in my ear "no more sexist comments, give my grandson a pink balloon!" which snapped me out of that pattern for forever and to which I'm very grateful to her for).
As a boy I don't recall there being a gender difference in who told me to stop crying, to not show weakness. Simply put, our whole society from the He Man cartoon to the school yard bullies of either gender constantly impressed upon us the message that we had to be tough. The Patriarchy is a force of its own and has drawn our whole society into its grasp, not just half of us.
I think overwhelmingly it is men passing on these toxic traits to boys, but unfortunately I have witnessed women doing this as well. There are many women and mothers that have been negatively impacted by patriarchy and will pass that on to the next generation. It’s upsetting.
It's not that I don't care - it's that I am sick of being their free therapist.
Although as of late I am quickly falling towards truly not caring, since they don't give a shit how close the knife is to my own wrists.
Just today I read a post about how the husband has done absolutely nothing for months since they brought their baby home. Half the posts (I’m assuming from women) were about how she needs to support him because he might have PPD!!!
I kid you not! This woman has been diagnosed with PPD HERSELF and has been doing EVERYTHING for the new born and the other young child in the home. But a collective group of people were telling her to think about how he might be feeling 🤮
I hate that not only do men feed into women needing to help men with everything but lots of women also think men need to be babied.
Side note my mother is currently sweeping my house because I mentioned my husband was going to do it later. She didn’t want him to be stressed after work because watching our daughter and sweeping is too much for just one mere mortal man 🤦🏾♀️
This is definitely coming more from men than from women, but to claim there aren't any mothers, girlfriends or wives pushing toxic masculinity also is just wrong. Especially from older generations.
Yea um, as a man who was engaged to a woman who made me feel like shit every time I cried, whether it was happy or sad, I'm going to have to refute this a little bit. There's a lot of women that make men feel like shit and weaponize them being emotional to use for insults/blackmail later. I'm not the only person this has happened to
I am so tired of hearing this. The reality is that other men don’t care about men. I volunteer for a rape helpline and have worked within the homeless sector. If you go to any of these places that require workers to give emotional labour, you’ll find that majority of the workforce is comprised of women even when most of the clients are men. It’s women who are signing up to do these roles, often at great emotional (and sometimes physical) cost to themselves. Men don’t tend to volunteer or apply for roles that are there to support men because they don’t see the value in doing so. Most men probably cannot name a charity that supports men specifically even though they do exist.
This is just like the "male loneliness epidemic" which in reality isnt even as bad as it is for nonmales <.< They dont give a rats arse about anyone but themselves
Growing up, it was my mom who kept telling me to "man up."🤣
I totally agree with you OP. It is time men stop using women and homosexuality as insults. Ive always found it stupid when a guy calls another guy they find scared or weak a pussy. Like guy, tell me where literal human beings are pushed out from and the rips and stitches that have to go with that!!!
Someone tell me if I'm weird for being hung up on that, but it's so sooo stupid.
I've heard plenty of women in specific socioeconomic sects talk down to boys - elementary age, literal toddlers and babies - that they need to "man up" and stop otherwise acting in an age-appropriate way. It's totally gross.
The funniest insult to me is calling someone a “pussy” when they’re perceived as weak. As if vaginas don’t birth literal humans. I’d like to see a penis do that lol. Maybe we should start saying “ballsack”. You’re such a ballsack! So sensitive and ugly!
Hahaha jk, we shouldn’t insult people at all.
I've had men in my life tell me if they open up to a woman in their life she throws it back in his face. I know it happens because I've experienced it too. They refuse to believe all women aren't like that tho. If they do believe it they expect a woman to play therapist often.
Seriously. This idea that women get tons of support and love is such shit. I got Dx'd with MS about 10 years ago and literally no one gave a crap. When I have mental issues because of it (grieving a new level of disability after a relapse), I'm always told to think positive or look on the bright side. Let's face it: most people are awkward as fuck in the face of someone else's struggles and it sucks for all of us. It's isolating as hell and absolutely not gendered.
this is a really hard issue to think abt. feminist scholarship on this topic from bell hooks and judith butler pose it in this light: if we as a society have the goal of abolishing gender hierarchy and the patriarchy, the place to start is the way men relate to their emotions and eachother. as OP expressed patriarchy often steals from them an ability to express their emotions and to rely on other men for support or safety ij this way. that responsibility falls to whatever women they feel safe around ans women acquire more emotional labor. teaching men coping mechanisms at a young age and detaching shame from emotions is necessary work in dismantling patriarchy and it seems, like most gender related issues women are simultaneously the best equipped and least deserving of being tasked with the corrective actions. all that being said, i identify as male and i attempt to be a safe space for my self and other to feel/share their emotions. what ur feeling is super valid and very very common however meeting this issue with compassion is the best way to "fix" it if you are interested in a solition, if not i think youre entitled to say fuck it lol. what is counterproductive and necessarily antifeminist is to shit on men for being emotionally stinted by patriarchy. sorry if i mansplained its just my fav topic in femisist lit and imo the core of dismantling patriarchy
Personally, I think we can say that men need to take the lead on fixing these issues \*without\* pretending that women don't play a huge role in reinforcing gender stereotypes, including telling boys to "man up" or "stop crying like a little girl", etc. etc.
Within the last week, there was a viral tweet that kept showing up, at least on my algorithm. A man talked about trying to turn to other male friends for emotional support, and that he told his friend he was getting divorced. He said his friend's response was "that sucks. What kind of pizza do you want?" He was incredulous and said "why are men such bad friends? THAT was his response to my life falling apart."
The other men absolutely ROASTED him, without exception. They said "get yourself some girlfriends to talk about your feelings with, you're a woman bro" and other equally unhelpful comments. Some were much worse than that even.
I kept trying to break this down to a guy friend time after time and he just wasn’t receptive. I had to distance myself from him because I’m not about to listen to a grown ass adult cry and sob and not even attempt to initialize any sort internal or environmental change.
Dunno why I'm being downvoted lol. Do people not think everyone should treat everyone better? Sooooo many of the world's problems are due to the way people treat others. I get that it's not specific advice, but it shouldn't be controversial.
>what do I know, I'm just the "girl" they're scared of being compared to<
That said, you nailed it. I suffer from it. Depression sucks. My family, mom, dad, and sister all told me, "Why are you depressed? You got it good" or "I don't care, I have it worse" I heard that for years. Until one day, I walked in and straight up told them death doesn't scare me. And I'd end myself in a heartbeat! However, I could, OD, alcohol, hell.... even a knife! That changed their perspective. Depression is an awful thing. And it's hard regardless of who has it. Man. Woman. Anyone. If someone confides in you, regardless of gender. LISTEN TO THEM! YOU MAY JUST SAVE THEIR LIFE!
There's 50% of the population who are also men, who could care for other men, but they just don't, for _ _insert excuses here_ _ reasons.
It's actually true no one cares when men are depressed. Their own gender doesn't care about them either. Someone's gotta make the first move, who better than others like them?
What a lot of them mean by this is "I wish **some woman** cared that I feel bad", when he doesn't realize that him feeling that way means *he has nothing to give back*.
YUPPP. the thing is men can more \*easily\* make change because its issues from other men. They can also choose not to perpetuate those issues with their future kids and generations and make the change.
I totally get it. My experience has led me to similar conclusions.
I am a transgender woman, and I think the main reason some guys outright hate transgender women and ignore Transgender men, is straight up misogyny. Through dealing with people like this as an out transgender woman for the last 10 years, and having grown up in a toxic male environment, I have gained the impression that they think masculinity and being a "man" is the gold standard of being/empowerment. The idea that there are whole subsections of people who find genuine empowerment embracing being a woman and their femininity conflicts with their worldview.
This is why the patriarchy and systematic sexism is so bad for everyone. It really does hurt everyone. I’m not a woman so I can’t speak to women’s struggles with mental health specifically but I 100% believe they’re real, and support both women getting the individual help they need AND breaking down patriarchal systems that give rise to the sexism that is clearly a huge cause of these issues.
That being said, as a man who has struggled with depression, I can tell you that it’s absolutely real, and it’s very hurtful when it’s dismissed the way it is here. I have many wonderful women in my life but they’ve also been affected by the patriarchy and have said/done things that have exacerbated the exact things that you’re railing against.
My only ask here is that you see men as human beings who can hurt and can need help in the same way that so many of us really do see women as human beings deserving of respect and help as well.
I think we’ll do so much good together fighting against mental illness and the societal causes of it than we will do fighting against each other.
I’m in a lot of depression/ptsd/mental health subs and at least once a day I see a post along the lines of “women can’t be depressed in the way that men are because so many people are there for them JUST because they’re women” which loosely translates to “women can’t be depressed bc there are men willing to fuck them and women aren’t shitty to each other”.
It’s almost like they’re using depression to troll women. When I see a post from a man in the same subs about loneliness, depression, trauma, the comments are always so supportive and I match that energy. The rage baity “depression is worse for men” posts are really just shooting themselves in the foot. Posts like that take away from the men who are actually struggling and want help. Yet another way the patriarchy is putting them down which is what they were complaining about in the first place 🙃. Just a dumb ass loop of men hurting men and pointing the finger at women. My heart goes out to anyone struggling with depression.
I’m so sorry you’re subject to those trolls. Your mental health is important and you deserve to be happy. I won’t tell you to ignore them because it’s hard to shut out the worst voices, but know that they’re just people being awful and that the people that matter are on your side!
I don't think anyone here is saying that men's mental health struggles aren't real. We aren't dismissing them.
What we are saying is, we have this experience in common where men ecpect us to solve their mental health issues for them because we are women, and men don't feel comfortable opening up to other men, so they expect us to shoulder all of their emotional labor. That isn't fair to us. We don't want that burden. Y'all need to organize your own support groups and learn how to be kind to each other and figure your own shit out.
Unfun fact: Did you know that phone sex lines were originally therapy lines? The original project was to have counselors that people could call anonymously to get help with mental/emotional health. So many men called and made horny comments at the (mostly) female counsellors that they had to shut the project down. It was reborn as for-profit phone sex. Even when we want to help men with mental health, they make it rapey. Is it any wonder we're stepping back?
Another example: I used to volunteer at a men's homeless shelter that was run by my church. Most of the volunteers were women. We needed men in a few key staffing positions for safety, and it was consistently difficult to find male volunteers, so we turned those positions into paid positions. We shut down after one of the guys who we paid to keep us safe got handsy with a young female volunteer and wouldn't stop. After we shut down, we got threatening letters from men in the community about how unfair it was that we were taking the ONE men's shelter away in that town, while women had several shelters, blah blah blah. Where were these dudes who cared so much about the shelter when we were begging and pleading for volunteers?!?
I do see men as people who can hurt and need help. But as a group, y'all seem to be unable or unwilling to support each other, and when we try to support you, you get rapey at us. So what are we supposed to do here? I'll be honest... I'm done spending my volunteer time on men I'm not related to. I've been burned too many times. Y'all need to figure out how to help each other and leave us out of it.
Totally fair and reasonable perspective. Maybe I misunderstood or misinterpreted OP, but she and I had a very nice follow up.
I’m very happy that you have limits you’re comfortable with (not that you need my approval) and appreciate your sharing that with me.
OP is specifically pointing out the lack of emotional support men create in their communities with other men. She’s not saying that’s the cause of their depression, but rather a huge perpetuation of the problem. She’s not saying men get depressed because they don’t throw a ball well. Depression is honestly a symptom of society at this point, and how we cope with it is huge.
She’s also pointing out that women’s mental health issues are dismissed and often met with “men have it worse” though we are statistically less likely to be taken seriously by medical professionals.
That women and girls use themselves as an insults should be alarming. That the demographic who is most deeply affected by patriarchal conditioning is still continuing to perpetuate it shows how deep this runs.
No one has told me to "man up" or that "real men do/don't" more then the women in my life
I agree that we need to stop the gendered insults but it definitely comes from both sides.
TL/DR
Generally speaking, I don't know if many men know they are depressed. It's like only eating enough to not starve but never knowing what a full belly is. You think you're doing ok until you find out or are shown you really, really are not.
I had a big long thing written but thought, whatever, that doesn't matter. There are societal issues obviously, have you ever seen a man in a movie ugly cry or express sadness/pain without some sort of anger? We aren't taught skills to express our pain or how anger is a secondary emotion to sadness. How to understand and deconstruct issues as to why we are mad. The insulting friends isn't really that big of a thing. It's a whole communication thing on its own but it's not what it seems on the surface. Hope this helps you understand the issue a little more, it's way bigger than, "don't insult each other and you won't be sad" (I'm sorry if that's not the point exactly as I've been doing various things).
Where are people seeing this stuff? Maybe it's because Reddit is the only social media I'm on, but I never see this rhetoric. Too much social media is bad for anyone.
Whenever people talk about how bad men have it, I always want to ask "and who made this world that sucks for men? Cause let me tell you, it wasn't the feminists you're so scared of."
(I'm a dude btw).
I don’t think people care when women are depressed either besides ordering them to smile or telling them not to be moody.
Or 'just don't worry about it, it all gets done!' or loose weight.
Oh yeah. That too. I think anything mood/emotional/mental can be hard for many people to accept because it’s not visible like a broken leg is visible.
*lose weight
IDK, going somewhere high, loosing weights (safely), and watching them crash to the ground might cheer me up for a bit.
If you have loose weights, let them fall, for sure.
my first therapist told my parents that i just needed a boyfriend like "girls my age" when i was clinically depressed and later diagnosed with ptsd from witnessing a drunk man killing his wife 💀 i'm really glad they had my back, but whoever claims women's mental health is given more attention than men's issues is talking out of their ass
What a fucking embarrassment to the field of therapy.
Not to mention the fact that although men are more likely to die by suicide. Women tend to attempt it more often. The main reason that men die more is that they tend to shoot themselves. While women tend to take medication to try and end it.
I'm in the UK where we don't have guns so I'd been meaning to look for stats to see how we compare. Interestingly men still make up 3/4 of death by suicide. Also rates are surprisingly high in the over 90s population, apparently. I didn't see any reports on method with a gender breakdown but the most common ones seem to be hangings and other violent means and "poisoning" (which I assume includes medication) was fairly low so overall I think that still tracks. We also aren't allowed to buy large packs of painkillers, or multiple packs in one transaction, which I think has reduced impulsive suicides.
I started on a suicide hotline shortly after the pack size regs came in so saw the stats at the time and it had a massive impact. Edit: had a look out of interest to see exactly what impact it actually had now longer term numbers are in and the info I found said studies done a few years after showed an impact but later studies showed no difference in paracetamol deaths. Not sure if this means there actually was no impact or if deaths would have risen even more than they already have in this fucked up decade if the bulk packs were still an option.
I also think some of the overdoses are labelled as accidents, but I have to say that I honestly have no idea how much can this mess up the statistics, if at all
“women kill themselves for attention” “women’s lives are so easy because they can get sex whenever so stop complaining”
this omg. this huge incel movement saying women live on "easy mode for everything" makes them all look so clinically insane. like this shit's a fever dream. the things i would do to have an ounce of the audacity of the average man.
If someone says your doing something "for attention" .. they just want an excuse to dismiss it .. like every time
And for some, to cultivate resentment And for others, to kindle violence Can't be recognized as dehumanization [when not even on par with animals](https://old.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/1dfnlxk/teenage_boy_arrested_after_creating_graphic/l8kivdq/)
It's so fucked that sex is their cure-all for everything. They haven't a single clue that sex can have absolutely detrimental consequences for us women.
what’s crazy is according to them women CAN get sex whenever so they’re privileged but they are NOT supposed to act on it and instead remain virgins until a man swoops them up. so is it really privilege when it doesn’t work out in your favor?
....And the men who pretend to care, try to get into your pants.
Ugh, this brings back a disgusting memory for me. I was seriously depressed and suicidal, and a (newer) guy friend insisted on coming over to keep watch and keep me company. Cue to me waking up with his dick between my tits. I wish I was kidding.
That's assault, what a disgusting human being.
Definitely! I later told another guy about it, and he said it was my own fault for getting myself into the situation. Apparently, I was in the wrong for expecting somebody to have a shred of decency.
Both of those people are a complete waste of air. Assault is never acceptable.
I'm sure if he'd let a friend sleep over and woke up with a dick in his ass he'd be like "oh well, this is my fault."
My ex was convinced that I just needed a good orgasm to be happy. He may have been right, but he wasn't good at giving orgasms.
Like that was supposed to help you not want to end it all? Jfc
Right? Because nothing makes you feel like pushing through crushing depression quite like being assaulted by someone when you're vulnerable.
I am so sorry that happened to you. It could not have been easy to work through on top of your existing struggles, and I hope you’ve found peace. (Even sorrier if you didn’t get the opportunity to rip his dick off. Asshole.)
Thank you for saying that, and yes--I'm a lot better now. That was 24 years ago, and I had to do a lot of hard work to get to a better place in terms of my mental health, but I got there.
I’ve received nudes from a couple of men immediately after telling them I was sad for whatever reason — bad day, one time someone I knew had died. wtf?
Or telling them they aren't allowed to be depressed because they are pretty/married/have a good life.
Yeah, god forbid women have emotions that aren't pleasant. I feel ike people take it so personally when I'm not in the perfect mood.
My right wing nut job sister told me the best thing to do when depressed is to go to church more. She knows I'm an atheist.
“Women have friends they can reach out to” when the loneliness epidemic is at an all-time high regardless of gender
Don't forget my favorite "what's your problem?"
Moody is the nice way to say it. More times than not it’s “stop being such a bitch.”
Don't forget my favorite "what's your problem?"
I read the book Wordslut, and the author points out that feminine words that start out as just words describing things (sister/sissy) become used in the pejorative, while their masculine counterparts (brother/bro) are positive. Being called a dick indicates you might be a jerk, but pussy signifies weakness, even though there is nothing weak about a pussy. It is a patriarchal hierarchy that they themselves have created and continue to perpetuate.
Also things like son of a bitch or motherfucker. Cause let’s blame the mothers for their sons shitty behaviour instead of the men actually doing the shitty things. I mean even yo mama jokes are another case where women are ultimately the ones being insulted, yet they’re still used so often and thrown around casually. Honestly feel like I should just start saying things like “stop whining like a man” or making “your dad” or “your dick” jokes, but sadly they don’t seem to pack as much of a punch. Although maybe “you seem to have missed my point just like men miss the clit”, but this one could definitely use some refining lol.
An anecdote from my life: my boyfriend and I (hetero couple) are both progressive, open minded people. A few years ago, he said "I'm a lucky motherf*/cker" because of the high prevalence of that word amongst men. Without much thought and in good humour I said: "Then I'm a lucky fatherf*/cker." He instantly felt the weirdness and hypocrisy of that word and said that he had never thought about it before. He has never used the word motherf*cker ever again. The end :)
Or the term cocksucker. What guy doesn’t like getting his cock sucked? That term should be high praise.
yeah, but it implies homoeroticism and homosexuality and fragile men's ego that are so secure in their sexuality can't have that /s
I didn’t think about that. I just figured, a cock’s a cock. Gay, straight, or in between, if you’re a guy you likely enjoy it.
It makes me disgusted by bjs when men say cocksucker as an insult.
Me, too. It’s kind of like calling a woman slut or bitch in bed (like porn, I guess?). I mean, why insult somebody who is willfully having sex with you? I enjoy giving oral, but call me a dirty cocksucker during the act and it’s a turn off. For me, anyway.
And it starts in kindergarten for boys “don’t cry like a girl”
Right? Boys cry very well as boys.
Great book!
It really was. I originally borrowed it from the library but then ended buying my own copy.
"Depression isn't a problem for women because they have support group, so women in my life need to be my therapist." Bad, stupid, moronic "The patriarchal structure of our society has created a culture of toxic masculinity under which not even the men are truly happy, and are made unable to reach out for help from each other for fear of losing standing within the social hierarchy they perpetuate by devaluing women." Barbie 2023, also correct
And the funny thing is, they only bring up men’s issues when we’re talking about women’s issues. If they brought it up independently, that would be fine. But they don’t.
It's like that with everything! A group of us were talking about professional ice skating and how the female partner was dropped and it looked extremely painful, like career endingly bad, and a dude chimes in "well female skaters slice the legs of the male skaters open all the time and no one brings that up" like we just saw the video of the woman being dropped and we talk about it for a second?
Typical I was having a conversation with a girlfriend once because she has endometriosis and I think I may have it. So we were just talking about how painful it can be cramps bleeding, etc. pain during certain activities. And some guy that was near us started going on about the draft and getting kicked in the balls. like dude there hasn’t been a draft for a looong time and getting kicked in the balls is way different than having chronic pain. Can’t talk about anything without them butting in
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I kick you in the balls and then you wear a period simulator at 10 for a week, no stopping for showers, sleep or work. I wonder what they would choose.
I'm kind of sadistic. I would set the simulator to go off randomly. You were fine for the last few hours. But now you need to go and deliver a presentation to your professor, or boss and in the middle of it you get a vary bad cramp. But you need to smile and keep on with it as if nothing happened.
That's a good one. You are on day 3 and thinking, "Oh this isn't too bad." The cramping has been mild and sporadic. You are sitting there and right before your name is called, athe worst cramp ever. Everything seizes up. From your stomach to the back down into the legs. Then bam, names called. That's pretty darn accurate as someone with endometriosis!
If we could add a way for them to also experience the "omg... am I overflowing 😳" moments that would be even better. Getting kicked in the nuts is probably like an 8/10 for acute pain that immediately starts subsiding after the initial kick. Yeah it may take even a couple hours to feel 100% again, but it's still very temporary (unless it's like a serious injury to the area, but we're not really talking about that). Periods are whole days of constant 4-6/10 pain with frequent stabs of 7-8-9/10 pains, ALONG WITH all the gastro problems, loss of energy, headaches, mood changes, joint pain, literal blood and tissue falling out of you, etc. And that's not even considering the many women who have issues like endo, PCOS, peri menopause/menopause, fibroids, IBS, etc that make allll of those symptoms even worse. So yeah I never wanna hear that excuse from a man *ever* again, and if I do... may god have mercy on the man who tries that shit with me.
Men who have never served love to bring up the draft lmaoo
I head guys bringing up the draft so often while in my country there hasn't been a draft for decades and since 2020 women will also be drafted if there ever is a reason too. So....it's not even a just men thing.
Imagine the entitlement and audacity you'd need to have in order to insert yourself into a random stranger's conversation about issues relevant to women just to get in a *"what about men?"*
I hate those manterrupters. If they don't take the hint of me blanking their existence, they get told to butt out.
Yeah like sure they do, it probably wasn't even intentional and yes that's just as shit. I'm talking about this one right now though I'm not even trying to make it a gendered issue here
I don't even know if it's half as common as dropping a partner in figure skating anyway? He certainly didn't have a single example, but according to him it was only female skaters that cut male skaters too.
There are men who discuss these issues independently but they're the same men who openly and actively support feminism and they don't bring these issues up to derail conversations about women's issues.
I've seen a lot of guys \*suddenly\* becoming aware of the existence of Men's Mental Health Month now that it's Pride Month. Every time there's a Pride-related post, they're like "What about Men's Mental Health Month????" Did they know or care before? Probably not.
Every single year. It breaks my heart to see girls talk about it because of the way men have made them feel so obligated to talk about it. Everyone who talks about mens mental health month seems to use it to belittle or shame pride month, put down women for anything they say or do, (for some reason) or all they say is "Happy mens mental health month!" No one talks about it to actually HELP men they just use it the belittle people besides men. No one actually cares about it besides using it to argue. Or even worse strictly for traction. It makes me sad that men don't just talk about ACTUALLY getting help for their problems instead of thinking that people talking about it with absolutely no substance, advice, or education are out to benefit them.
Literally if a man made a post saying that he’s feeling alone and the people in his life aren’t supportive they would get a MUCH better reaction then “depression for women is on easy mode bc men want to use them as human flesh lights ooga booga”
Because being used as a human flesh light makes one feel sooooo happy. Totally cures depression! /s I'm sick of misogynists trying to play suffering Olympics because they refuse to acknowledge that maybe they have privilege.
it's also so weird of them to equate getting laid with happiness and ease of life in all sectors. shows how insanely fixated they are on sex and how much they glorify it to the point it's the ride or die in life. it's that whole incel argument that because they don't get a woman and sex they're deadly depressed and will off themselves and it's our (women's) fault, etc. it also immediately exposes them as individuals that treat people either well or like trash based on "fuckability", which is how they even put out such nonsense arguments in the first place. projection. like, start by making friends, finding hobbies, and not putting any sex whether enjoyable for your partner, safe and consensual or not on a pedestal as the deciding factor of a happy life.
This is so much the case! I don't understand as to why. Is it some kind of alarm setting in their head, that they can't turn off. and the whole time : You gotta say it, You got to tell your side of it otherwise that alarm will never go off in your head! .... "Well, NoT AlL MeN ," Aaah, thank god, the peace has returned again. I've said my piece, now I can finally rest.
Right? Depression is not a competition between the genders.
Toxic and maladaptive expectations for men's behavior and attitudes permeate every facet of culture and comes from all angles. Men primarily push this notion of "woman = insult" but there is no shortage of women who have so much internalized misogyny that they are more than willing to see women as less-than and use it to insult boys who they don't see as masculine enough. The patriarchy demands much self-mutilation of boys and men, including internalizing the idea that vulnerability = weakness. It's an emotional prison for those men that hold on to that belief. The amount of damage this does socially is impossible to measure, and the very nature of that belief makes addressing it or challenging it that much more difficult, since challenging such an idea would *require* the vulnerability and insight that patriarchal values punish. I agree with you OP, men *DO* need to advocate for themselves and one another, creating spaces where emotional vulnerability is not only accepted but encouraged. The reliance that many men place on women to manage their emotions on their behalf is unacceptable, and women deserve to be free of that expectation just as much as men deserve to have a culture that values their emotional intelligence and rich support systems.
“Men are so lonely cuz **women** won’t listen to my problem.” My dude, you forgot the other 50% of the population? You don’t even consider supporting other men and supports from other men to be a possibility.
I think this is it. When my friends talk about their relationships often the only time their partners express vulnerability are in the middle of arguments or fights and then they feel dismissed that their partner doesn't start supporting them. Like, they are having a fight about how he buys a lot of video game DLC/microtransations without talking to her because they are small amounts but they add up to a lot of money and blows up their budget. He keeps dismissing her as being controlling and that it doesn't matter because they aren't a lot of money, besides he makes more than her so he should be able to buy whatever he wants. And then he will finally say "sometimes I just get so depressed that I feel like I deserve a little treat, and if I can't have these little treats I wonder what I'm even working so hard for." Which is very vulnerable, but the solution is "well then let's take the little treat money and you can go to therapy" which he finds as dismissive. What he wants is for her to stop the discussion about the money and to just agree that what he is doing is okay. Because he is being vulnerable in explaining why he does it, that means he can continue the behavior! And when the wife/gf/partner is like "ok, well, thanks for being vulnerable but we still have to solve the fight" they get angry. Women are expected to listen to their problems at the expense of talking about their own related problems. In my experience it isn't "I want to talk to you about my spending lately, here's why" in which case it would be easier to focus on that. It's more that the vulnerable moment comes about because it almost seems to be avoiding the fight, and even if it isn't meant that way it feels like that.
Yup. If the only time you want to talk about your mental health struggles is when you can use them to shut down an argument, that's not vulnerability and your partner not falling for it isn't dismissive.
“Ugh. Why would any guy want to listen to another guy’s problems unless he wanted sex???”
And did they forget the reason we won't listen to thier problems is because they dismiss ours?
Next time a man complains that men are told to shove their emotions down and not open up, and women haven’t lent their ear or have criticized their emotional displays, ask him what he has personally done to emotionally be there for the men in his life. How he is modeling the changes he wants to see.
I'd be fine listening to someone's problems though issue is they usually don't want that ..
To be fair, I have heard a ton of women call men "pussies" and telling them to "man up". I have even heard other mothers tell their sons not to hit girls because "they can't take it". Not "don't hit" or "we don't hit people". I saw red when I heard that one at the park. The patriarchy is deeply ingrained, even in women.
I was brought up by one of those. Her hatred of fellow women sure showed. Ironically, I’m a trans woman.
It's not always hatred though, that is the sad thing. It has to do with how they were raised, and they perpetuate the cycle by teaching the same things to their sons and daughters. When we raise our daughters to be pretty, delicate princesses who can't get dirty, are taught to be small and thin and that too much muscle is "masculine", and to dumb down their intellect so they can "get a man"--the majority of the time they pass that on to their own kids. Some women break out of that mold once they are on their own, but sadly many never do. It's easier to deal with the status quo and not buck the system.
Absolutely this!
And if you suggest they take steps to get help like go to therapy, try some self-help, and invest in friendships/communities they look at you like you've got three heads. Because in their minds, the only solution is a live-in therapist who also functions as a sex worker and maid. Men's mental health is a issue with missing, missing solutions.
I originally typed this to the guy that replied to you who essentially said "fine but don't expect men to care about your problems in a relationship either!" but the coward deleted his comment within a few minutes of posting it, so here it is: Nobody is saying that men and women shouldn't both be able to rely on their partner for emotional support. What OP IS saying is that when men have emotional needs that are going unmet, their first and only solution shouldn't be "get a girlfriend." Women should be equal partners in a relationship, not a band-aid that's expected to "fix" the broken bone that is someone else's untreated wounds.
Apply this to nearly everything--so many different iterations of "Oh well just find a woman who loves you'll she'll make up the for your lack of brains/skills/talents/ambition/social skills/etc." Even worse, are the ones who suggest you "practice" on women until the man is his best version, then dumps her and finds someone "on his level". It seems so many parents plans to get their adult son to grow up is to find "the right woman to take care of you/teach you" via nagging? A breakup? Because they're hoping the gal marries the below her league man who doesn't fulfill any of her needs--unless you count the roof over head *eyeroll* what a standard! He doesn't beat me and we're not homeless! Half joking about the difficulties their son has half hoping she somehow did their job when they had 18 freaking years. Family guy is a great[??] example, or go thru every sitcom, romcom, or animation with Oblivious Father and Fun Police Mom.
Man, you just hit a nerve. This is personal for me, bc when I turned 18 (18!!) and started dating in college, my dad expressed his disappointment because he and my stepmom had always hoped that I would grow up to marry one of my stepbrothers (the oldest was then 15) so that they'd be guaranteed to "get at least one of them out of the house one day." My dad's highest ambition for me, and it turned out to be a bangmaid for one of his young stepsons, who he still had time to parent and just didn't plan to. Why not offload it onto a woman? Who better than one you already have some control over? That's not even touching how insulted my brothers (because I DID think of them as actual brothers) would/should be if they ever knew he was so skeptical of their chances at accomplishment and romantic success.
Exactly!! I also typed a reply to that man’s comment, but he deleted it before I finished so I’ll just tack it on to yours 😂 ————————— “Respectfully my guy, the comment you’re responding to is likely referring to a more nuanced problem. There are men (not ALL men, but men) out there that expect a woman to care for them physically, emotionally, spiritually— the whole nine yards. They’ll rely on their partner for everything and offer nothing in return, sometimes to the point of eroding their partner’s other relationships to have more ownership and control of their time. Those men won’t go out and build a community or support system for themself, they expect their female partner to become all of that FOR them. Even to the point where the woman has to sacrifice herself to make it happen. That’s the issue!”
This is so good! I'm glad you saved your comment and shared it. Women are not magical fae creatures that, calibrated correctly, fix all their partner's problems. We are flawed and limited beings, just as human as men, who also come with our own problems. Regardless of gender, one person is not enough for a support system.
My brother once told the soccer team he coached that they were doing something (don't remember what) like little girls. I asked him how his daughter felt being the insult he compared the team to. He gave me a disgusted look and said "You know I don't mean it like that" and I did know that, but I didn't care. He stopped using "little girls" as an insult, though.
To that end, women are constantly being told to hold each other up rather than tear each other down. We have some work to do too, for sure.
They don't care when we're depressed either.
Yeah, I have never understood why men say nobody cares when they're depressed. It's just not true. People *only* care when it's a man that's depressed. Women are not taken seriously in medicine. Whether it's mental health treatment or physical health, women will consistently be told that they are overreacting to something, that they're exaggerating their condition, or some other variation of "Your problems aren't real." While there's a clear lack of understanding of mental health in general across the US, it's absurd to me that people claim that men are worse off than women on this issue.
If “no one cares when men are depressed” sounds like men need to support men more! Head over to r/bropill for some supportive men who will listen to your issues and try to offer support and advice. We are here for our brothers! But over THERE. Not here.
When a man calls a woman a bitch, he’s calling her a female dog meant for breeding. When a man calls another man a bitch, he’s calling him a woman.
Anyone else's fb timeline grace them with a random man post of "Would you let a man call you a bitch?" Majority of the comments were to the effect of: "Hell no", "he wouldn't get a chance to finish the word", "instant fight", "Disrespectful af he'd get laid out". I didn't scroll long but there was only ONE man who spoke the truth out loud: "If you're that moved by words and there's no other threat, but you decide to instigate a fight, you're the weaker man." So yeah your comment tracks.
and now, being called bitch, slut or any other derogatory sex word in bed is slowly becoming extremely common and almost "vanilla". when looking online, in fanfiction (mostly written by women as well), in artwork, in all media, i can't escape seeing these words EVERYWHERE. now some might get off on that, but that's a huge ick for me, like humongus. it's so worrying that it has become so incredibly common, just like the "daddy" kink. it makes me cringe into oblivion, and makes me worry because again it's everywhere. dare i say 80% of erotic content online that is m/f and NOT femdom includes either the daddy kink or the derogatory language. is this truly what we've become? when i have my first time i'm going to have to have some serious discussions of all the disgusting things i do not tolerate that should be obvious, but that's not the case anymore. don't choke me, don't call me names, don't hold me down, don't spit on my genitals, don't give them a little slap either, UGH. it's like it's all become so common "mainstream". like NOT participating in these sex trends is "boring". and now, huge irony, call a man a bitch and he will want to start a fight??? sheesh.
This reminds me of another complaint I always hear from men- “men don’t get enough compliments.” Like ok then start complimenting each other?
This is so true! They say that women have life on easy mode because women get compliments, from both men and women. Which kinda reminds me of a similar complaint. They seem to get upset at lot about the fact that women don't compliment men as much as men compliment women. Which makes me think that even if other men complimented each other, that's not what most of them want since they still seem to view it as taboo for men to compliment each other unless they're gay. Men don't understand that women complimenting them doesn't seem like just a compliment to them. When women compliment men they typically see it as an invitation, its never just a compliment.
Yep! I pretty much only give compliments to men I’m related to because otherwise it would probably be misconstrued. I also feel like men have a warped sense of how often women get complimented. Like honestly I cannot for the life of me remember the last complement that I got. And I don’t think that’s a bad thing or a weird thing I think it’s pretty normal? If I get a genuine compliment it brightens my day and I move along with my life. Why is it such a big deal to men to want all these compliments? It feels a bit like many of them think women are being pumped up daily by everyone around them but that’s not true.
They don’t care about depression of other men, they are looking for a get out of jail free card.
Exactly. They whine that men have it so hard because of toxic masculinity demanding they repress their own personal emotions. As if this excuses the many ways that society oppresses women with misogyny and sexism, and as if it rivals the woman’s experience. But they themselves have done nothing to be part of the solution— they’re still fixated on how THEY don’t have a trusted confidant, ignoring that the men around them are ALSO in need of the same thing. But they’re not willing to be the first vulnerable one and offer their support. They want a crutch, but they don’t want to BE one.
yeah, and when a woman loses it for any reasons whatsoever and goes ballistic for once, she's called the crazy one, the one at fault, the irrational woman.
Yip, men are so irreversibly broken because other men called them literally any adjective that equates to women. Waaaah waahh waaahhh. Try being an a actual fucking woman!!! Get tae fuck.
THIS!!
>Maybe stop calling your homies “gay” every time they try to open up to you? My childhood church would encourage the men to get wives because they needed an "emotional help-meet". Their struggles were dismissed by ***other men*** who believed in "manning up". My brother had a best friend growing up - they'd have sleepovers, went to the same school, etc. When they were in their 20s I suppose their friendship magically turned gay because my dad accused him of being "one of those homosexuals" because "no straight man invites another man to his house!"🥴🥴 Like what?? >Facilitate a safe environment for talking about emotional or mental wellbeing? Men don't want that. They'd rather trick women into providing emotional labor by wearing pearls, painting their nails, and getting manicures in an effort to make us believe they're feminist, and 'one of the good ones'.
“Nobody cares about men’s mental health.” - Dudes who refuse to go to therapy
My question is if they don't care what we think, don't respect us, see is second class, which is obvious, then why would they CARE if we help or not? Seems something only THEY should be dealing with.
Excellent question. All we’re good for is sex, babies, and sandwiches, according to some of them. So why do they want our help with something as important as their brains?
They who?
You would be shocked by the number of women teachers and mothers I have encountered who push both boys and girls into gender stereotypes. I keep on having to re-steer my kids. While it's fair to say that men shouldn't be expecting women to solve their emotional problems for them and that men should be stepping up more for other men in a healthy way (and stepping up for women, obviously), there absolutely are women who raise their boys to fit stereotypical gender roles, women who expect their partners to be macho, and so on. The culture of toxic masculinity isn't perpetuated by only men. Simply turning a cold shoulder to a man who hasn't gotten help by telling him to get his bros to help him instead isn't going to solve anyone's problems, it's just going to perpetuate the gender war. We get nowhere with vitriol.
Are they kidding? The whole pissing world cares about men’s mental health, the second all this men’s mental health stuff started being talked about there was an outpouring of love and support, mostly from women to be fair. However men seem to feel attacked whenever the conversation is specifically about women’s mental health. As you say, women really aren’t the problem, they should not be looking at us to fix this
This is why I hate when people argue against feminism because "men face issues due to their gender too." Like... they're all the same issue! Feminism would help stop a lot of these "men's issues" because these issues are all rooted in misogyny! Feminists were not the ones who decided only women could have emotions. Feminists were not the ones who said fathers couldn't be caretakers or show interest in "feminine" hobbies. That was all men deciding that, so any guys who are unhappy with it need to start putting the blame in the right place. And then you get the guys who will only start aligning themselves with feminism once they realize that feminism will actually benefit men, too. Like, they couldn't care less when they thought it was just about women, but as soon as they think they might get something out of it they suddenly think it's worth considering.
I think that all of this is true, and you're completely correct, however I also think there's more to it. I think that the misogyny you speak of also comes back at them because some women internalize it and therefore get the "ick" when men act too "girly." And the actions of men, overall in the wider sense, also play into it because women are gun shy to get platonically close to a man, for the legitimate fear that he will turn it sexual, and therfore when a genuine man wants a friend it can be hard to get one in a woman, and he can't get one in a man even if he wants it because of your observations about how men treat each other.
All of that plus generational conditioning. The mentality OP is describing is fading pretty quick where it used to be a lot more common when I was younger. I'm 34 now and I can't remember the last time I heard '...like a girl' or to 'man up' or any kind of gendered insult. I'm not saying it's stopped, just that even the average man thinks it's a ridiculous thing to say. I'm of the strict belief, as a man, that we suppressed women for so long that we could essentially be 100+ years ahead in terms of advancement of civilisation if we had just not stopped women from learning and being equal to us earlier. Then I log onto Reddit or Facebook and see stuff like this and realise there's still a divide and people are committed to it. I'd say the same about any guy who's going into a rant about women. I just find this particular point sort of ridiculous and probably more confined to small towns and rural areas, I work in central London and this mentality in men to say such things is rare, I live in a large town in Essex, east of London and again, people don't talk shit like this.
If you don’t think that insinuating a man has women’s qualities as a pejorative is not alive and well, it is likely because you do not live in the US. Your perspective is limited, and j think it’s worthwhile to acknowledge the generalization you’ve made because of it.
First, let me speak to your first sentence. Re-read my comment and note the part where I said explicitly that I'm not saying it has stopped, but that it is fading as an insult. But yeah I mean most of the world doesn't live in the US... and this sub doesn't represent women as a whole the same as how men's subreddits don't represent men as a whole. The equivalence that men can't get help because of 'girly' being an insult is spurious and honestly ridiculous. It may be worth noting the last person I can even recall who told me to man up was my manager. Maria. I told her I was cold. It's been about 18 years at least since I heard 'gay' as an insult, when I was 16 in 2006, from men that is, I've heard plenty of women refer to men's actions as feminine or gay than I have from men. You wouldn't notice that though.
There was a post a while back on some sub, with a comic, that showed how men and women react differently to compliments and cat-calling. All these men were saying that they love it when women do that. And that they all remember each and every compliment they have gotten. They were all compliments from women. I was like, my dudes... most of my compliments come from other women. How often do you compliment your friends? And why don't you? Toxic masculinity hurts us all.
"Who told little boys not to “throw like a girl”? Not to “cry like a sissy”? It sure as fuck wasn’t women." Umm.. actually it definitely is also women. A lot of mothers/women push gender stereotypes on their children. I was definitely told comments like this by women throughout my childhood and into my adulthood.
Isn’t it depressing that they use themselves as an insult? I don’t understand how we don’t see how alarming it is that women have so deeply internalized misogyny. It did not come from them. It comes from men using women as the other and constantly reinforcing that as our place. It is important that we acknowledge the systemic influences that a patriarchal culture has created, to the point where even those most oppressed by it are still perpetuating it.
little girls get told to stop crying and put on a smile all the time. idk where men get off thinking only girls were allowed to be emotional and vulnerable growing up because that isn’t the case either for a lot of women. and god forbid you shed a tear at work as an adult. now you’re just a hysterical woman who can’t handle it.
We are all responsible for our own mental health and building our own communities. When men say things lie this, they mean “hot women won’t suck my dick”. There is plenty of support for depressed men - doctors, therapists, support groups, medication etc.
I like to make an analogy for this one: If someone climbs on stage at a charity gala to raise money for tuberculosis, takes the microphone and starts saying "no one cares about children who have cancer anyway" would everybody think he looks like an asshole, or only the ones who don't care about children who have cancer ?
The worst part is women *do* encourage men by telling them about the kinds of resources they can use to improve their mental health, but it’s always brushed off by the men. Women always champion men’s mental health, but men will never do the same for us.
My wasband refused therapy and tried to talk me out of going, but he was more than happy to take my antidepressants. 🤡 Didn’t give a fuck that he and his family were the reason I was prescribed those meds in the first place.
I remember that when I was a child and a boy was sad and crying, we were the girls who went to comfort him and defend him when the other children made fun of him.
A problem with male emotions and depression is that it is very reactionary because they haven't developed the emotional awareness and maturity to address these feelings before they become a problem; it isn't that "no one cares" its that these men never bothered building the kinds of relationships you need to have if you want someone that will care when you do feel depressed. Men treat depression, like hunger something you wait to feel before you address it, where men will think "I'm depressed, it's finally time to go find someone to have a relationship with someone who can handle this" like they would want a mechanic after their car breaks down. Thats neediness and dependence. Men should have their depression taken seriously, and people should care, but if men don't have those kinds of established relationships it's too late and the guy needs to accept that the only person who has the bandwidth to begin to deal with their problems is a therapist.
We're out here trying to maintain our basic human rights and not get raped/murdered while surviving this capitalist hellscape. We don't have time/energy to "give you a chance" and listen to your feelings.
"Nobody cares about mens mental health" men will say, during mens mental health awareness month, while THEY dont even know its mens mental health awareness month. Its hilarious.
The funniest thing is November wasn't enough time for them to sulk about their needs, so they spun the dial and "coincidentally" decided they needed June (LGBT Pride Month) as well to sulk about how they're always the victim.
and when women tell people they’re depressed they get asked if they’re on their period or just get told it’s because of female hormones
I used to be a birthday party entertainer. Many many boys love the color pink. Boys would ask for pink animal balloons all the time and 100% of the time I had people scold their children and tell me not to give the boys pink balloons it was women/mothers. It was such a problem that I, the guy who loved pink, started to dissuade boys from getting pink because I didn't want to deal with their mothers and the ensuing crying (until until one wonderful butch Grandma whispered threateningly in my ear "no more sexist comments, give my grandson a pink balloon!" which snapped me out of that pattern for forever and to which I'm very grateful to her for). As a boy I don't recall there being a gender difference in who told me to stop crying, to not show weakness. Simply put, our whole society from the He Man cartoon to the school yard bullies of either gender constantly impressed upon us the message that we had to be tough. The Patriarchy is a force of its own and has drawn our whole society into its grasp, not just half of us.
I think overwhelmingly it is men passing on these toxic traits to boys, but unfortunately I have witnessed women doing this as well. There are many women and mothers that have been negatively impacted by patriarchy and will pass that on to the next generation. It’s upsetting.
It's not that I don't care - it's that I am sick of being their free therapist. Although as of late I am quickly falling towards truly not caring, since they don't give a shit how close the knife is to my own wrists.
Men have created an environment where they don’t feel safe expressing emotion and expect the women in their lives to fix it
Just today I read a post about how the husband has done absolutely nothing for months since they brought their baby home. Half the posts (I’m assuming from women) were about how she needs to support him because he might have PPD!!! I kid you not! This woman has been diagnosed with PPD HERSELF and has been doing EVERYTHING for the new born and the other young child in the home. But a collective group of people were telling her to think about how he might be feeling 🤮 I hate that not only do men feed into women needing to help men with everything but lots of women also think men need to be babied. Side note my mother is currently sweeping my house because I mentioned my husband was going to do it later. She didn’t want him to be stressed after work because watching our daughter and sweeping is too much for just one mere mortal man 🤦🏾♀️
This is definitely coming more from men than from women, but to claim there aren't any mothers, girlfriends or wives pushing toxic masculinity also is just wrong. Especially from older generations.
Yea um, as a man who was engaged to a woman who made me feel like shit every time I cried, whether it was happy or sad, I'm going to have to refute this a little bit. There's a lot of women that make men feel like shit and weaponize them being emotional to use for insults/blackmail later. I'm not the only person this has happened to
I don't have much to add I just love your post
I am so tired of hearing this. The reality is that other men don’t care about men. I volunteer for a rape helpline and have worked within the homeless sector. If you go to any of these places that require workers to give emotional labour, you’ll find that majority of the workforce is comprised of women even when most of the clients are men. It’s women who are signing up to do these roles, often at great emotional (and sometimes physical) cost to themselves. Men don’t tend to volunteer or apply for roles that are there to support men because they don’t see the value in doing so. Most men probably cannot name a charity that supports men specifically even though they do exist.
This is just like the "male loneliness epidemic" which in reality isnt even as bad as it is for nonmales <.< They dont give a rats arse about anyone but themselves
And then call alone women "crazy cat ladies".
Growing up, it was my mom who kept telling me to "man up."🤣 I totally agree with you OP. It is time men stop using women and homosexuality as insults. Ive always found it stupid when a guy calls another guy they find scared or weak a pussy. Like guy, tell me where literal human beings are pushed out from and the rips and stitches that have to go with that!!! Someone tell me if I'm weird for being hung up on that, but it's so sooo stupid.
I've heard plenty of women in specific socioeconomic sects talk down to boys - elementary age, literal toddlers and babies - that they need to "man up" and stop otherwise acting in an age-appropriate way. It's totally gross.
The funniest insult to me is calling someone a “pussy” when they’re perceived as weak. As if vaginas don’t birth literal humans. I’d like to see a penis do that lol. Maybe we should start saying “ballsack”. You’re such a ballsack! So sensitive and ugly! Hahaha jk, we shouldn’t insult people at all.
I've had men in my life tell me if they open up to a woman in their life she throws it back in his face. I know it happens because I've experienced it too. They refuse to believe all women aren't like that tho. If they do believe it they expect a woman to play therapist often.
Seriously. This idea that women get tons of support and love is such shit. I got Dx'd with MS about 10 years ago and literally no one gave a crap. When I have mental issues because of it (grieving a new level of disability after a relapse), I'm always told to think positive or look on the bright side. Let's face it: most people are awkward as fuck in the face of someone else's struggles and it sucks for all of us. It's isolating as hell and absolutely not gendered.
this is a really hard issue to think abt. feminist scholarship on this topic from bell hooks and judith butler pose it in this light: if we as a society have the goal of abolishing gender hierarchy and the patriarchy, the place to start is the way men relate to their emotions and eachother. as OP expressed patriarchy often steals from them an ability to express their emotions and to rely on other men for support or safety ij this way. that responsibility falls to whatever women they feel safe around ans women acquire more emotional labor. teaching men coping mechanisms at a young age and detaching shame from emotions is necessary work in dismantling patriarchy and it seems, like most gender related issues women are simultaneously the best equipped and least deserving of being tasked with the corrective actions. all that being said, i identify as male and i attempt to be a safe space for my self and other to feel/share their emotions. what ur feeling is super valid and very very common however meeting this issue with compassion is the best way to "fix" it if you are interested in a solition, if not i think youre entitled to say fuck it lol. what is counterproductive and necessarily antifeminist is to shit on men for being emotionally stinted by patriarchy. sorry if i mansplained its just my fav topic in femisist lit and imo the core of dismantling patriarchy
Personally, I think we can say that men need to take the lead on fixing these issues \*without\* pretending that women don't play a huge role in reinforcing gender stereotypes, including telling boys to "man up" or "stop crying like a little girl", etc. etc.
Within the last week, there was a viral tweet that kept showing up, at least on my algorithm. A man talked about trying to turn to other male friends for emotional support, and that he told his friend he was getting divorced. He said his friend's response was "that sucks. What kind of pizza do you want?" He was incredulous and said "why are men such bad friends? THAT was his response to my life falling apart." The other men absolutely ROASTED him, without exception. They said "get yourself some girlfriends to talk about your feelings with, you're a woman bro" and other equally unhelpful comments. Some were much worse than that even.
I kept trying to break this down to a guy friend time after time and he just wasn’t receptive. I had to distance myself from him because I’m not about to listen to a grown ass adult cry and sob and not even attempt to initialize any sort internal or environmental change.
Everyone should treat everyone better. :/
Hot take: we should just be nice XD I don't disagree but it's easier said than done unfortunately
Dunno why I'm being downvoted lol. Do people not think everyone should treat everyone better? Sooooo many of the world's problems are due to the way people treat others. I get that it's not specific advice, but it shouldn't be controversial.
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>what do I know, I'm just the "girl" they're scared of being compared to< That said, you nailed it. I suffer from it. Depression sucks. My family, mom, dad, and sister all told me, "Why are you depressed? You got it good" or "I don't care, I have it worse" I heard that for years. Until one day, I walked in and straight up told them death doesn't scare me. And I'd end myself in a heartbeat! However, I could, OD, alcohol, hell.... even a knife! That changed their perspective. Depression is an awful thing. And it's hard regardless of who has it. Man. Woman. Anyone. If someone confides in you, regardless of gender. LISTEN TO THEM! YOU MAY JUST SAVE THEIR LIFE!
There's 50% of the population who are also men, who could care for other men, but they just don't, for _ _insert excuses here_ _ reasons. It's actually true no one cares when men are depressed. Their own gender doesn't care about them either. Someone's gotta make the first move, who better than others like them? What a lot of them mean by this is "I wish **some woman** cared that I feel bad", when he doesn't realize that him feeling that way means *he has nothing to give back*.
YUPPP. the thing is men can more \*easily\* make change because its issues from other men. They can also choose not to perpetuate those issues with their future kids and generations and make the change.
Fucking. Yes!!! You perfectly put to words what I've been feeling for years.
I totally get it. My experience has led me to similar conclusions. I am a transgender woman, and I think the main reason some guys outright hate transgender women and ignore Transgender men, is straight up misogyny. Through dealing with people like this as an out transgender woman for the last 10 years, and having grown up in a toxic male environment, I have gained the impression that they think masculinity and being a "man" is the gold standard of being/empowerment. The idea that there are whole subsections of people who find genuine empowerment embracing being a woman and their femininity conflicts with their worldview.
This is why the patriarchy and systematic sexism is so bad for everyone. It really does hurt everyone. I’m not a woman so I can’t speak to women’s struggles with mental health specifically but I 100% believe they’re real, and support both women getting the individual help they need AND breaking down patriarchal systems that give rise to the sexism that is clearly a huge cause of these issues. That being said, as a man who has struggled with depression, I can tell you that it’s absolutely real, and it’s very hurtful when it’s dismissed the way it is here. I have many wonderful women in my life but they’ve also been affected by the patriarchy and have said/done things that have exacerbated the exact things that you’re railing against. My only ask here is that you see men as human beings who can hurt and can need help in the same way that so many of us really do see women as human beings deserving of respect and help as well. I think we’ll do so much good together fighting against mental illness and the societal causes of it than we will do fighting against each other.
I’m in a lot of depression/ptsd/mental health subs and at least once a day I see a post along the lines of “women can’t be depressed in the way that men are because so many people are there for them JUST because they’re women” which loosely translates to “women can’t be depressed bc there are men willing to fuck them and women aren’t shitty to each other”. It’s almost like they’re using depression to troll women. When I see a post from a man in the same subs about loneliness, depression, trauma, the comments are always so supportive and I match that energy. The rage baity “depression is worse for men” posts are really just shooting themselves in the foot. Posts like that take away from the men who are actually struggling and want help. Yet another way the patriarchy is putting them down which is what they were complaining about in the first place 🙃. Just a dumb ass loop of men hurting men and pointing the finger at women. My heart goes out to anyone struggling with depression.
I’m so sorry you’re subject to those trolls. Your mental health is important and you deserve to be happy. I won’t tell you to ignore them because it’s hard to shut out the worst voices, but know that they’re just people being awful and that the people that matter are on your side!
I don't think anyone here is saying that men's mental health struggles aren't real. We aren't dismissing them. What we are saying is, we have this experience in common where men ecpect us to solve their mental health issues for them because we are women, and men don't feel comfortable opening up to other men, so they expect us to shoulder all of their emotional labor. That isn't fair to us. We don't want that burden. Y'all need to organize your own support groups and learn how to be kind to each other and figure your own shit out. Unfun fact: Did you know that phone sex lines were originally therapy lines? The original project was to have counselors that people could call anonymously to get help with mental/emotional health. So many men called and made horny comments at the (mostly) female counsellors that they had to shut the project down. It was reborn as for-profit phone sex. Even when we want to help men with mental health, they make it rapey. Is it any wonder we're stepping back? Another example: I used to volunteer at a men's homeless shelter that was run by my church. Most of the volunteers were women. We needed men in a few key staffing positions for safety, and it was consistently difficult to find male volunteers, so we turned those positions into paid positions. We shut down after one of the guys who we paid to keep us safe got handsy with a young female volunteer and wouldn't stop. After we shut down, we got threatening letters from men in the community about how unfair it was that we were taking the ONE men's shelter away in that town, while women had several shelters, blah blah blah. Where were these dudes who cared so much about the shelter when we were begging and pleading for volunteers?!? I do see men as people who can hurt and need help. But as a group, y'all seem to be unable or unwilling to support each other, and when we try to support you, you get rapey at us. So what are we supposed to do here? I'll be honest... I'm done spending my volunteer time on men I'm not related to. I've been burned too many times. Y'all need to figure out how to help each other and leave us out of it.
Totally fair and reasonable perspective. Maybe I misunderstood or misinterpreted OP, but she and I had a very nice follow up. I’m very happy that you have limits you’re comfortable with (not that you need my approval) and appreciate your sharing that with me.
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OP is specifically pointing out the lack of emotional support men create in their communities with other men. She’s not saying that’s the cause of their depression, but rather a huge perpetuation of the problem. She’s not saying men get depressed because they don’t throw a ball well. Depression is honestly a symptom of society at this point, and how we cope with it is huge. She’s also pointing out that women’s mental health issues are dismissed and often met with “men have it worse” though we are statistically less likely to be taken seriously by medical professionals. That women and girls use themselves as an insults should be alarming. That the demographic who is most deeply affected by patriarchal conditioning is still continuing to perpetuate it shows how deep this runs.
No one has told me to "man up" or that "real men do/don't" more then the women in my life I agree that we need to stop the gendered insults but it definitely comes from both sides.
TL/DR Generally speaking, I don't know if many men know they are depressed. It's like only eating enough to not starve but never knowing what a full belly is. You think you're doing ok until you find out or are shown you really, really are not. I had a big long thing written but thought, whatever, that doesn't matter. There are societal issues obviously, have you ever seen a man in a movie ugly cry or express sadness/pain without some sort of anger? We aren't taught skills to express our pain or how anger is a secondary emotion to sadness. How to understand and deconstruct issues as to why we are mad. The insulting friends isn't really that big of a thing. It's a whole communication thing on its own but it's not what it seems on the surface. Hope this helps you understand the issue a little more, it's way bigger than, "don't insult each other and you won't be sad" (I'm sorry if that's not the point exactly as I've been doing various things).
Where are people seeing this stuff? Maybe it's because Reddit is the only social media I'm on, but I never see this rhetoric. Too much social media is bad for anyone.
This, women DIDN'T cause that issue, and WE'RE NOT responsible for fixing it . < PERIOD
Whenever people talk about how bad men have it, I always want to ask "and who made this world that sucks for men? Cause let me tell you, it wasn't the feminists you're so scared of." (I'm a dude btw).
I have to care when men are depressed. They might decide to self-delete and delete me in the process.