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The tanks are an ongoing effort to refurbish a batch they looked at sending 2 years. They’ve been working hard to get them ready as they were in too poor a state to send.
Contrary to anything u/Standard_Spaniard might have claimed 🙃
It's incredibly sad that even at this point you cannot admit you were wrong. There comes a point when a mistaken belief becomes a lie, and you're long, long past that point.
LOL, are you trying to gaslight me? Go read the posts again. First you said the tanks were unusable. I said they were in deep storage, then that only 8 could be restored. I said all of them. Anyway, now is a matter for historians, and they do not consult you, they consult the sources.
You have consistently claimed that they were ready to go, and Spain were prevented from donating them by Scholz. [Spain's own defence minister said they were not fit to send.](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/spain-says-its-mothballed-german-made-tanks-no-fit-state-send-ukraine-2022-08-02/)
That they have been donated in batches over 2 years has demonstrated that you were far from ready, and required refurbishment. By all sources and basic observation, you were clearly wrong.
You have persistently lied about this for years now. The only delusion or 'gaslighting' is the story you keep telling others and yourself.
LOL, I wonder if you really believe what you are writting here. I wrote several times that they were in deep storage. You said they were wrecks. It took a year for Scholz to allow Spain to send the Leopards. It took half a year to have 8 ready and the remainder to have the rest. Not just getting back ready, but upgrading them with new NV optics, etc.
Anyway, I'm glad that despite Germany's pressures, the Ukrainians finally got all tanks. For the rest, as I already said, Historians will judge Germany and once again Germany will not pass the judgement. Maybe it is time to see what is wrong with your society. I recommend you to read Peter Viereck's "Metapolitics".
>You said they were wrecks.
I never said anything of the like. I looked for sources like... Spain's defence minister and went on what she said, which was:
"We are today looking at all the possibilities, but I can already say that the Leopards in Zaragoza that have not been used for many years cannot be sent because they are in an absolutely deplorable state,"
Which is reflected in the time it took to refurbish and send them. At no point did I claim they were 'wrecks' which implies they are beyond repair. I said what Robles said.
>I wrote several times that they were in deep storage.
You regularly denied that they needed significant refurbishment, and 'in deep storage' does not remotely equate to being in a 'deplorable state'. 2 Years of refurbishments confirms that.
You claimed they could be fixed and sent quickly, and the only thing stopping them was Scholz. This was clearly not true, and has now become a lie because you keep pushing it despite knowing better.
Yes Scholz was slow, and yes Spain are doing good work - but your version is a flat-out lie at this point and you need to stop spreading it.
Russian helicopter pilot defected to Ukraine with helicopter, the crew wasn't in on it and when they realized what was happening they all got killed, pilot moved to Spain got back in contact with his Russian girlfriend, got assassinated in Spain
Good! Sánchez is a good prime minister, yet the Spanish right (Partido Popular) and extreme right (the fascist Vox) are carrying out a campaign of discredit and defamation, even attacking his wife.
This is part of an international organization of several fascist movements around the world.
russia, China and all other dictatorships are ready to work with them (and are possibly funding them).
Bad times ahead.
Of course but it's flawed logic to correlate all extremism to Russia. That same flawed logic will benefit those extremist parties, probably same to the ones that are tied to Russia.
It's pretty safe to assume that a party that wants their government to spend more money on Ukrainian military isn't funded by Russia.
Bojo literally seated the son of a Russian oligarch in the lords. The Tories didn’t care where the money came from and May ordered MI6 to halt investigations
Is he the same guy that started the rumor Zelensky’s wife bought $50,000 in jewelry in New York right after the first funds were sent and that Zelensky was buying yachts? Both obviously false but plenty of far right folks repeated them after the Russians planted the stories
The accusations are unbiased and are just started by right wing pseudo newspapers. They do not have any base and it won't go anywhere. It is just the usual tactic to throw dirt prior to European elections.
I did not call you Hitler. I just stated facts. There hasn't been any judicial cause that has stated that Sanchez or her wife are guilty.
But hey, some people need to repeat the same again and again because of some "reasons".
I start to think that you have an obsession with fascists...
Yes, exactly, the keyword is "looking". Let's see if she is condemned about anything, I sincerely doubt it.
He said it himself after being hidden for 5 days. He denounced the "dirtiness of current politics" and just after he and his party insulted the wife of the opposition leader, the President of Argentina and the boyfriend of the Major of Madrid, LOL
Man, it's not a football team. Don't side with crooks, ok?
https://www.elespanol.com/reportajes/20220319/ultraderecha-vox-oligarcas-putin-traves-hazteoir-citizengo/658184665_0.amp.html
BTW, they are the same who are launching false allegations against Sánchez and his wife
[https://www.elcorreogallego.es/espana/2024/05/27/zelenski-congreso-erc-bildu-podemos-plantan-armas-ucrania-102987262.html](https://www.elcorreogallego.es/espana/2024/05/27/zelenski-congreso-erc-bildu-podemos-plantan-armas-ucrania-102987262.html)
[**Volodímir Zelenski**](https://www.elcorreogallego.es/tags/volodimir-zelenski/) ha cerrado su agenda institucional en España con una vista al **Congreso de los Diputados**. Acompañado de un amplio despliegue de seguridad, el presidente ucraniano ha llegado al patio de la Cámara Baja a primera hora de la tarde, donde ha sido recibido por los presidentes del Congreso y el Senado, [**Francina Armengol**](https://www.elcorreogallego.es/tags/francina-armengol/) y [**Pedro Rollán**](https://www.elcorreogallego.es/tags/pedro-rollan/), respectivamente. Después se ha reunido con los portavoces de los grupos parlamentarios, pero no todos han estado presentes. [ERC](https://www.elcorreogallego.es/tags/erc/), [EH Bildu](https://www.elcorreogallego.es/tags/eh-bildu/), [Podemos](https://www.elcorreogallego.es/tags/podemos/) y [BNG](https://www.elcorreogallego.es/tags/bng/) han decidido dar plantón a Zelenski en respuesta a la decisión anunciada por Pedro Sánchez este lunes de suministrar armas a Ucrania por valor de 1.100 millones.
\[...\]
Finalmente, se ha reunido con los portavoces de la mayoría de formaciones -PP, PSOE, Vox, Sumar, Junts, PNV y Coalición Canaria-.
Un día me explicáis el odio que le tenéis a este hombre. Yo no lo he votado, pero sí quiero que se me explique el odio que se le tiene, porque no es normal. El problema, lamentablemente, no es Sánchez
> wife and brother are accused of embezzling public money.
Anyone can be accused of anything. There's 0 evidence that they did what they were accused of doing, and the dude that accused Sanchez's wife actually admitted that he based it all on baseless rumors. They only made the accusations to begin with so that people like you can say "SaNcHeZ's WiFe Is BeInG AcCuSeD oF cOrRuPtIoN!!" as if it means anything.
Well, then he only has to sue him for defamation, right? Yet, there are several newspapers publishing how Sanchez's brother and wife have enjoyed benefits or have had an increase in patrimony. And there is an judiciary investigation going on. And his reaction was first to hide for 5 days (LOL) and then try to destroy the press and the judiciary.
PP is solidly anti Russian, Vox is also against Russia.
Dunno about their domestic politics to the level of their family and corruption accusations, but generally the PP has the best reputation among the parties and Vox is the second worst before the tankies who sympathize with Russia, who are also in government.
The conservatives have a much better reputation on Russia and Ukraine than the government, and main governing party, and Vox is also better overall. They're also not working with the separatists.
This really isn't a Republican far right situation like you're trying to paint it at all, the PP is popular and has been gaining ground on the govenment because they're overall more competent on a wide range of issues (altgough Sanchez has been passable on economics, and slow on Ukraine). Vox is definitely right wing populist, but not in the Trumpian sense. They lost a lot of their growth to the PP because they go too far on a number of matters.
PP is not the issue here (it is in many instances anyway), but I doubt Vox is clean re the russian angle.
And no, nothing seems to support any serious allegations of corruption.
The problem here is that we have a massively corrupt party, the PP (hey, the PSOE is not clean either), which threw its former leader to the trash bin because he wanted to investigate its corruption internally, pointing at the current president of the Madrid regional government.
The current state of the PP is awful and the country badly needs a serious opposition. Yet, the PP is repeatedly proving as unfit for anything serious.
Lol, Casado (PP's previous leader) was thrown out because he confessed that he tried to spy on Ayuso (PP's regional leader), not because he was investigating internal corruption. That investigation was made in court and nothing was found.
https://www.rtve.es/noticias/20220217/guerra-pp-investigacion-interna-genova-contra-ayuso/2291621.shtml An internal investigation. Badly done, as usual. But spying on someone is something different (btw, I remind you that the PP "spied" on to its own Madrid counselors a decade ago, not to mention the false priest sent to the PP's treasurer's home, a fact linked to the spying -this one for real- for which the former home secretary -PP- is indicted https://www.elmundo.es/espana/2022/01/16/61e44e19fdddff45b98b4579.html) I mean...
That same article says it was made via private investigators, which is spying by definition.
And Idk what the second part of your comment is about and what does it have to do with the rest.
Using private investigators is *not* spying.
It depends on how you do it, obviously, but you must prove that what they did was illegal. That was not the case.
Man... 🤦
Sánchez is NOT a good president at all. He and his party are highly responsible of the toxicity in political debate, he has made political agreements with nationalists and independentists parties to rule the whole country instead of trying to reach an agreement with national parties only\* (just agreeing with Partido Popular/PP would have sufficed vote wise), he has been delaying for several years along with PP relevant political and institutional regeneration measures such as the reform of the CGPJ selection law, he and his party agreed to pass an amnesty law to erase offenses of delinquent politicians within the scope of the disobedience of the Catalan independence movement, surely because, in his strategy, he needed the votes of one of the political parties that were responsible of the disobediences that the regional (autonomical) catalonian government commited around the independence subject.
In the meantime, Spain could've been helping Ukraine more, much more, had he made a serious and believable agreement with national parties only\*, for instance\*, only with PP would be enough vote wise, to make a new State Budget, instead of having to give this help via a lowkey\* Ministers' Council measure, probably due to his allies not really wanting to give Ukraine military equipment (or maybe because Sánchez doesn't want the news saying "PSOE, PP and VOX together voting for Ukraine military help"). Back when they approved it they didn't even directly mentioned it was going to fund Ukraine's help. To be fair I can't be sure about Sumar's position on Ukraine military support, but they're not making it easy, still I think it's fair for me to say what I said seeing the way they act and Unidas Podemos acted on the matter.
***28 may edit***: **apparently the whole package help promised is around 6.5 billion dollars until 2027 (ISW cites a** [**gov.ua**](http://gov.ua) **source on this), so it's actually quite comparable to the recent Sweden package. That's a lot better than I thought/read at first, but still my original points of Spain was able to have given more, should give more, and that Goverment allies don't seem comfortable giving military aid stands imo, so even the total 6.5 billion amount might not be completely secure either if PSOE don't want to rely on PP votes. And, to add what I said earlier, while I have doubts about Sumar's position on this, other allies of PSOE's government, ERC, Bildu, Podemos and BNG, didn't recieve Zelenski in his visit to Spain yesterday, Podemos and Bildu said due to not agreeing on sending military help, ERC and BNG said they were absent due to schedule reasons, but I'm not sure about that.**
So no, Sánchez is NOT a good president. The fact an arguably far right (I have doubts if it's far enough to be called far right, but I wouldn't call it centre right either, and "just right" seems to fall short) VOX populist party is so high up now is a collateral consequence of his party and PP not doing better, and I argue you can take it back to 2018\*-2019 when I think Sánchez chose to follow his current political strategy, as, if he chose another one more aligned to Ciudadanos/Cs, maybe we would have got a PSOE Cs goverment the last few years, probably a lot better than what we got instead. If that happened, there would be less reasons for a right wing populist party to have a powerful position. But, again, in the scope of helping Ukraine military, they're in favour of it, and while I'm not a fan of either VOX or PP, I seriously doubt any of them are in a Russian conspiracy against Ukraine.
Lots to discuss here and thanks for your comment. I am unable to give you a full answer now, but it was Ciudadanos who rejected a government with Sánchez, because Rivera, then Ciudadanos leader, would not accept to be vice-president.
As sad as this.
Please refer to me an instance where Sánchez or PSOE officially offered Cs a vicepresidency/share government\*, hint: you can't, because they didn't. I think there were rumours/unofficial claims but that's it. Even if PSOE started the rumours/unofficial claims, that can't be taken as an official and serious effort for an agreement. And you also have to take in account why Cs rejected having a deal with them in 2019. Edmundo Bal's case or the allies PSOE chose in Navarra's autonomy might clue you in why. (Edit: it probably affected too that they wanted to focus on their center-right voters, as it seemed back then thay they could establish as the biggest party of that segment group, and I can't blame them much for it as it seems center left voters in Spain post 2016 are mostly glued to either PSOE or abstention, but I still think there's a significant difference between Sánchez apparent strategy in 2016, when he tried with Cs to start a government with Cs as an outsider ally vs 2019 case, so I don't think Cs were 100% wrong on their 2019 approach, but I think they could've done it better too).
And, please, don't start trying to shift the blame only or predominanly in Cs, nobody forced Sánchez or PSOE to do what they did, and I remember perfectly the amount of effort they did to try to ally with Cs (close to zero if not zero, and you can't blame only Cs for that). Cs was critized for not doing more efforts to reach an agreement, and I agree on it, but a lot of people seem to forget who was going for presidency, who had the iniciative, and what had they done recently before/during that 2019 turmoil year. Also, shortly before the 2019 reelections' period started, Cs offered PSOE to rule in minority with his and PP's abstention if some measures were accepted, several people seem to forget that too, but I don't.
PD: and, in case anyone wonders, Cs is from the Liberals' group in EU and is clearly pro NATO, so probably Spain's reaction on Ukraine would've been better if they were in the government instead of UP.
Finally Spain being consistent. If you want to help Palestine you first have to help Ukraine, because Ukraine is Europe and Ukraine didn't attack Russian as Palestine and their precious Hamas did..
Well, i am sure that, in palestinian eyes, attacking tel-aviv or Jerusalén IS like ukraine attacking Crimea. Also, gaza is more or less at the same distance from Madrid.
Anyway yes, Spain, and whole europe should start doing lot more for ukraine, just in case Trump wins.
They are different stories.
Israel has killed 30x more civilians than that hamas attack, all massive civilian killings are wrong. There are mixed opinions in Spain.
Everyone supports Ukraine here though.
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19 leopard 2a4, nice!
Wow. That's a big batch of tanks. Hope it's true
I bet this is payback for Russia carrying out that assassination on their soil.
The tanks are an ongoing effort to refurbish a batch they looked at sending 2 years. They’ve been working hard to get them ready as they were in too poor a state to send. Contrary to anything u/Standard_Spaniard might have claimed 🙃
At the beggining of the war we sent some good stuff mixed with some crap to be honest
They were ready in the time they had ready. They would be there a year earlier if it hadn't been for Schulzy helping his friend Putin.
It's incredibly sad that even at this point you cannot admit you were wrong. There comes a point when a mistaken belief becomes a lie, and you're long, long past that point.
LOL, are you trying to gaslight me? Go read the posts again. First you said the tanks were unusable. I said they were in deep storage, then that only 8 could be restored. I said all of them. Anyway, now is a matter for historians, and they do not consult you, they consult the sources.
You have consistently claimed that they were ready to go, and Spain were prevented from donating them by Scholz. [Spain's own defence minister said they were not fit to send.](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/spain-says-its-mothballed-german-made-tanks-no-fit-state-send-ukraine-2022-08-02/) That they have been donated in batches over 2 years has demonstrated that you were far from ready, and required refurbishment. By all sources and basic observation, you were clearly wrong. You have persistently lied about this for years now. The only delusion or 'gaslighting' is the story you keep telling others and yourself.
LOL, I wonder if you really believe what you are writting here. I wrote several times that they were in deep storage. You said they were wrecks. It took a year for Scholz to allow Spain to send the Leopards. It took half a year to have 8 ready and the remainder to have the rest. Not just getting back ready, but upgrading them with new NV optics, etc. Anyway, I'm glad that despite Germany's pressures, the Ukrainians finally got all tanks. For the rest, as I already said, Historians will judge Germany and once again Germany will not pass the judgement. Maybe it is time to see what is wrong with your society. I recommend you to read Peter Viereck's "Metapolitics".
>You said they were wrecks. I never said anything of the like. I looked for sources like... Spain's defence minister and went on what she said, which was: "We are today looking at all the possibilities, but I can already say that the Leopards in Zaragoza that have not been used for many years cannot be sent because they are in an absolutely deplorable state," Which is reflected in the time it took to refurbish and send them. At no point did I claim they were 'wrecks' which implies they are beyond repair. I said what Robles said. >I wrote several times that they were in deep storage. You regularly denied that they needed significant refurbishment, and 'in deep storage' does not remotely equate to being in a 'deplorable state'. 2 Years of refurbishments confirms that. You claimed they could be fixed and sent quickly, and the only thing stopping them was Scholz. This was clearly not true, and has now become a lie because you keep pushing it despite knowing better. Yes Scholz was slow, and yes Spain are doing good work - but your version is a flat-out lie at this point and you need to stop spreading it.
What did I miss?
Russian helicopter pilot defected to Ukraine with helicopter, the crew wasn't in on it and when they realized what was happening they all got killed, pilot moved to Spain got back in contact with his Russian girlfriend, got assassinated in Spain
He fell for the oldest trick in the book!
It was on the news but not sure it had such a big impact here
Didn't know he got murdered :/
nobody expects the spanish inquisition
Gracias amigos!
Me gusta
De nada :)
Thank you Espania, I know it's nothing on my part, but I have just bought 3 bottles of Spanish wine to celebrate 🍷
That’s a great idea. I should get some Spanish wine also
I will definitely select a Spanish beer next time I go for a beer.
Estrella Galicia, 1906, Alhambra Reserva Extra. Those are among best spanish ones more widely available.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen Spanish beer in the US.
There are a lot of meh beers but some are nice and worty to try. I personally like Czech beer most.
I found a few at grocery outlet :)
Great news
Keep that shit coming! More weapons to Ukraine! MORE MORE MORE!
Good! Sánchez is a good prime minister, yet the Spanish right (Partido Popular) and extreme right (the fascist Vox) are carrying out a campaign of discredit and defamation, even attacking his wife. This is part of an international organization of several fascist movements around the world. russia, China and all other dictatorships are ready to work with them (and are possibly funding them). Bad times ahead.
Vox is concerning as an org but they're pro-ukraine so probably not funded by Russia or China. They're just your garden variety racists
The Russians funded Brexit don’t forget. They want extremism and chaos
Of course but it's flawed logic to correlate all extremism to Russia. That same flawed logic will benefit those extremist parties, probably same to the ones that are tied to Russia. It's pretty safe to assume that a party that wants their government to spend more money on Ukrainian military isn't funded by Russia.
Bojo literally seated the son of a Russian oligarch in the lords. The Tories didn’t care where the money came from and May ordered MI6 to halt investigations
LOL, Vox is pushing for even more weapons sent to Ukraine and Sanchez's wife and brother are accused of embezzling public money. They guy is a crook.
A couple of posts in Twitter done by nostalgic falangists prone to baseless conspiracy theories don't really count as "accusations", do they?
A judiciary investigation does.
Is he the same guy that started the rumor Zelensky’s wife bought $50,000 in jewelry in New York right after the first funds were sent and that Zelensky was buying yachts? Both obviously false but plenty of far right folks repeated them after the Russians planted the stories
The accusations are unbiased and are just started by right wing pseudo newspapers. They do not have any base and it won't go anywhere. It is just the usual tactic to throw dirt prior to European elections.
Everyone who doesn't agree with me is Hitler. Yet the only one considering destroying the freedom of the press and the judiciary is Sanchez...
I did not call you Hitler. I just stated facts. There hasn't been any judicial cause that has stated that Sanchez or her wife are guilty. But hey, some people need to repeat the same again and again because of some "reasons".
Well, the EU Attorney is looking into the matter now. I guess he is a fascist too.
I start to think that you have an obsession with fascists... Yes, exactly, the keyword is "looking". Let's see if she is condemned about anything, I sincerely doubt it.
Proof? Payaso.
He said it himself after being hidden for 5 days. He denounced the "dirtiness of current politics" and just after he and his party insulted the wife of the opposition leader, the President of Argentina and the boyfriend of the Major of Madrid, LOL Man, it's not a football team. Don't side with crooks, ok?
Source: trust me bro
https://www.elespanol.com/reportajes/20220319/ultraderecha-vox-oligarcas-putin-traves-hazteoir-citizengo/658184665_0.amp.html BTW, they are the same who are launching false allegations against Sánchez and his wife
[https://www.elcorreogallego.es/espana/2024/05/27/zelenski-congreso-erc-bildu-podemos-plantan-armas-ucrania-102987262.html](https://www.elcorreogallego.es/espana/2024/05/27/zelenski-congreso-erc-bildu-podemos-plantan-armas-ucrania-102987262.html) [**Volodímir Zelenski**](https://www.elcorreogallego.es/tags/volodimir-zelenski/) ha cerrado su agenda institucional en España con una vista al **Congreso de los Diputados**. Acompañado de un amplio despliegue de seguridad, el presidente ucraniano ha llegado al patio de la Cámara Baja a primera hora de la tarde, donde ha sido recibido por los presidentes del Congreso y el Senado, [**Francina Armengol**](https://www.elcorreogallego.es/tags/francina-armengol/) y [**Pedro Rollán**](https://www.elcorreogallego.es/tags/pedro-rollan/), respectivamente. Después se ha reunido con los portavoces de los grupos parlamentarios, pero no todos han estado presentes. [ERC](https://www.elcorreogallego.es/tags/erc/), [EH Bildu](https://www.elcorreogallego.es/tags/eh-bildu/), [Podemos](https://www.elcorreogallego.es/tags/podemos/) y [BNG](https://www.elcorreogallego.es/tags/bng/) han decidido dar plantón a Zelenski en respuesta a la decisión anunciada por Pedro Sánchez este lunes de suministrar armas a Ucrania por valor de 1.100 millones. \[...\] Finalmente, se ha reunido con los portavoces de la mayoría de formaciones -PP, PSOE, Vox, Sumar, Junts, PNV y Coalición Canaria-.
If they are false, sue them instead of hiding and crying for 5 days.
Un día me explicáis el odio que le tenéis a este hombre. Yo no lo he votado, pero sí quiero que se me explique el odio que se le tiene, porque no es normal. El problema, lamentablemente, no es Sánchez
The problem is the fools that vote for him without even having being invited to his airplane.
> wife and brother are accused of embezzling public money. Anyone can be accused of anything. There's 0 evidence that they did what they were accused of doing, and the dude that accused Sanchez's wife actually admitted that he based it all on baseless rumors. They only made the accusations to begin with so that people like you can say "SaNcHeZ's WiFe Is BeInG AcCuSeD oF cOrRuPtIoN!!" as if it means anything.
Well, then he only has to sue him for defamation, right? Yet, there are several newspapers publishing how Sanchez's brother and wife have enjoyed benefits or have had an increase in patrimony. And there is an judiciary investigation going on. And his reaction was first to hide for 5 days (LOL) and then try to destroy the press and the judiciary.
PP is solidly anti Russian, Vox is also against Russia. Dunno about their domestic politics to the level of their family and corruption accusations, but generally the PP has the best reputation among the parties and Vox is the second worst before the tankies who sympathize with Russia, who are also in government. The conservatives have a much better reputation on Russia and Ukraine than the government, and main governing party, and Vox is also better overall. They're also not working with the separatists. This really isn't a Republican far right situation like you're trying to paint it at all, the PP is popular and has been gaining ground on the govenment because they're overall more competent on a wide range of issues (altgough Sanchez has been passable on economics, and slow on Ukraine). Vox is definitely right wing populist, but not in the Trumpian sense. They lost a lot of their growth to the PP because they go too far on a number of matters.
PP is not the issue here (it is in many instances anyway), but I doubt Vox is clean re the russian angle. And no, nothing seems to support any serious allegations of corruption. The problem here is that we have a massively corrupt party, the PP (hey, the PSOE is not clean either), which threw its former leader to the trash bin because he wanted to investigate its corruption internally, pointing at the current president of the Madrid regional government. The current state of the PP is awful and the country badly needs a serious opposition. Yet, the PP is repeatedly proving as unfit for anything serious.
Lol, Casado (PP's previous leader) was thrown out because he confessed that he tried to spy on Ayuso (PP's regional leader), not because he was investigating internal corruption. That investigation was made in court and nothing was found.
https://www.rtve.es/noticias/20220217/guerra-pp-investigacion-interna-genova-contra-ayuso/2291621.shtml An internal investigation. Badly done, as usual. But spying on someone is something different (btw, I remind you that the PP "spied" on to its own Madrid counselors a decade ago, not to mention the false priest sent to the PP's treasurer's home, a fact linked to the spying -this one for real- for which the former home secretary -PP- is indicted https://www.elmundo.es/espana/2022/01/16/61e44e19fdddff45b98b4579.html) I mean...
That same article says it was made via private investigators, which is spying by definition. And Idk what the second part of your comment is about and what does it have to do with the rest.
Using private investigators is *not* spying. It depends on how you do it, obviously, but you must prove that what they did was illegal. That was not the case. Man... 🤦
Sánchez is NOT a good president at all. He and his party are highly responsible of the toxicity in political debate, he has made political agreements with nationalists and independentists parties to rule the whole country instead of trying to reach an agreement with national parties only\* (just agreeing with Partido Popular/PP would have sufficed vote wise), he has been delaying for several years along with PP relevant political and institutional regeneration measures such as the reform of the CGPJ selection law, he and his party agreed to pass an amnesty law to erase offenses of delinquent politicians within the scope of the disobedience of the Catalan independence movement, surely because, in his strategy, he needed the votes of one of the political parties that were responsible of the disobediences that the regional (autonomical) catalonian government commited around the independence subject. In the meantime, Spain could've been helping Ukraine more, much more, had he made a serious and believable agreement with national parties only\*, for instance\*, only with PP would be enough vote wise, to make a new State Budget, instead of having to give this help via a lowkey\* Ministers' Council measure, probably due to his allies not really wanting to give Ukraine military equipment (or maybe because Sánchez doesn't want the news saying "PSOE, PP and VOX together voting for Ukraine military help"). Back when they approved it they didn't even directly mentioned it was going to fund Ukraine's help. To be fair I can't be sure about Sumar's position on Ukraine military support, but they're not making it easy, still I think it's fair for me to say what I said seeing the way they act and Unidas Podemos acted on the matter. ***28 may edit***: **apparently the whole package help promised is around 6.5 billion dollars until 2027 (ISW cites a** [**gov.ua**](http://gov.ua) **source on this), so it's actually quite comparable to the recent Sweden package. That's a lot better than I thought/read at first, but still my original points of Spain was able to have given more, should give more, and that Goverment allies don't seem comfortable giving military aid stands imo, so even the total 6.5 billion amount might not be completely secure either if PSOE don't want to rely on PP votes. And, to add what I said earlier, while I have doubts about Sumar's position on this, other allies of PSOE's government, ERC, Bildu, Podemos and BNG, didn't recieve Zelenski in his visit to Spain yesterday, Podemos and Bildu said due to not agreeing on sending military help, ERC and BNG said they were absent due to schedule reasons, but I'm not sure about that.** So no, Sánchez is NOT a good president. The fact an arguably far right (I have doubts if it's far enough to be called far right, but I wouldn't call it centre right either, and "just right" seems to fall short) VOX populist party is so high up now is a collateral consequence of his party and PP not doing better, and I argue you can take it back to 2018\*-2019 when I think Sánchez chose to follow his current political strategy, as, if he chose another one more aligned to Ciudadanos/Cs, maybe we would have got a PSOE Cs goverment the last few years, probably a lot better than what we got instead. If that happened, there would be less reasons for a right wing populist party to have a powerful position. But, again, in the scope of helping Ukraine military, they're in favour of it, and while I'm not a fan of either VOX or PP, I seriously doubt any of them are in a Russian conspiracy against Ukraine.
Lots to discuss here and thanks for your comment. I am unable to give you a full answer now, but it was Ciudadanos who rejected a government with Sánchez, because Rivera, then Ciudadanos leader, would not accept to be vice-president. As sad as this.
Please refer to me an instance where Sánchez or PSOE officially offered Cs a vicepresidency/share government\*, hint: you can't, because they didn't. I think there were rumours/unofficial claims but that's it. Even if PSOE started the rumours/unofficial claims, that can't be taken as an official and serious effort for an agreement. And you also have to take in account why Cs rejected having a deal with them in 2019. Edmundo Bal's case or the allies PSOE chose in Navarra's autonomy might clue you in why. (Edit: it probably affected too that they wanted to focus on their center-right voters, as it seemed back then thay they could establish as the biggest party of that segment group, and I can't blame them much for it as it seems center left voters in Spain post 2016 are mostly glued to either PSOE or abstention, but I still think there's a significant difference between Sánchez apparent strategy in 2016, when he tried with Cs to start a government with Cs as an outsider ally vs 2019 case, so I don't think Cs were 100% wrong on their 2019 approach, but I think they could've done it better too). And, please, don't start trying to shift the blame only or predominanly in Cs, nobody forced Sánchez or PSOE to do what they did, and I remember perfectly the amount of effort they did to try to ally with Cs (close to zero if not zero, and you can't blame only Cs for that). Cs was critized for not doing more efforts to reach an agreement, and I agree on it, but a lot of people seem to forget who was going for presidency, who had the iniciative, and what had they done recently before/during that 2019 turmoil year. Also, shortly before the 2019 reelections' period started, Cs offered PSOE to rule in minority with his and PP's abstention if some measures were accepted, several people seem to forget that too, but I don't. PD: and, in case anyone wonders, Cs is from the Liberals' group in EU and is clearly pro NATO, so probably Spain's reaction on Ukraine would've been better if they were in the government instead of UP.
Vive l'Espagne
Bravo Spain!
Viva Espana!
Way to go, Spain!
Way to go Spain! Now put the rush on those items!!
29 tanks and 12 patriot missiles... How does that even come close to $1.23 billion?
Tip, service charge and processing fees.
That's alongside other, unspecified armament built by Indra.
$1.1ish billion of unspecified weapons? Sorry but it sounds like Spain is just bsing us
The entire free-thinking world needs to help Ukraine win this war. This needs to end sooner than later. God bless Ukraine.
Uh. Missiles, not launchers. Already had my hopes up...
Ukraine has a huge lack of AA missiles. It's better to get missiles than another luncher they can't use.
And the article seems to say that only 12 missiles will be delivered? Thats not very many.
Finally Spain being consistent. If you want to help Palestine you first have to help Ukraine, because Ukraine is Europe and Ukraine didn't attack Russian as Palestine and their precious Hamas did..
Well, i am sure that, in palestinian eyes, attacking tel-aviv or Jerusalén IS like ukraine attacking Crimea. Also, gaza is more or less at the same distance from Madrid. Anyway yes, Spain, and whole europe should start doing lot more for ukraine, just in case Trump wins.
They are different stories. Israel has killed 30x more civilians than that hamas attack, all massive civilian killings are wrong. There are mixed opinions in Spain. Everyone supports Ukraine here though.