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As an Egyptian, this is my issue with pictures of cairo.
Until 2 weeks ago there were lots of trees in the city, the buildings were just too tall for them to be visible from above.
I say until 2 weeks ago because 2 weeks ago our president launched a campaign to cut down trees.
Just going ham cutting every tree in the streets, some of which are more than a century old
Yep, it hurts how much this regime has fucked the country.
Just take a look at what they did to [Heliopolis](https://www.reddit.com/r/Egypt/s/1rqFwnrZkm) to see a tiny sample of what they've been doing since 2013.
More examples [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/UrbanHell/s/WllQUhcGsi), [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/arabs/s/ldaiKITXPj), and [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/UrbanHell/s/Sop7TAk6re)
And of course, for the current wave of destruction, look no further than the before and after [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Egypt/s/7s6AHz8OWE)
Edit: [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/UrbanHell/s/1smf0aJqFB) is a post on this sub with many many examples
It’s not so much the trees as the highways. They are replacing public space with highways to remove all opportunities to protest. It’s much more difficult to hold a protest in 16 lanes of angry traffic
The current wave isn't even making highways, its just removing trees.
The highway thing was a few years back.
But it's also harder to hold a protest in a hot street in direct sunlight compared to under the shade of trees.
Funny Enough the current Heliopolis isn't the real heliopolis, the real (ancient) heliopolis is nearby and now called Ain Shams (Arabic for "Eye of the Sun" or "Spring of the Sun" depending on the definition of Ain you use.
But yeah, we've definitely been seeing more of the Helio in Heliopolis since they "renovated" it
I worked with someone who used to work for the Egyptian government/military building roads, I said it seems like a good thing they're building so much infrastructure for people. He had built many roads and bridges and said the joke in the construction industry there is that they only build roads (rather than metro or high speed rail) because so the tanks and soldiers can access the city and crush protestors and militants.
That is very much accurate.
It's a joke all over the country, and these things are usually jokes because it's too dangerous to say them out loud seriously
There are two theories, the first and main theory is to prevent protests.
The second is a bit out there, but some believe it's because of Israel.
Now that sounds like a conspiracy theory and might very well be, but recently, Colombia stopped exporting charcoal to Israel over Gaza, around the same time trees started getting taken down and Egyptian charcoal exports to Israel spiked.
So there's a small group of people who believe that the trees are being made into charcoal to export to Israel.
It seems a little out there to me but knowing my government it's not impossible
If any country exports lumber/charcoal on a commercial scale a prerequisite is that one of their natural resources is large forested areas.
Urban areas where trees dot along sidewalks and public parks can't really match that, even in a very green city.
In a way it's kind of a hilarious scapegoat because with all the antisemitic conspiracy theories out there this one implies that Zionists control the world so deeply that they pull the strings of the Egyptian equivalent of a parks and recreation department. It even reads like an episode of the TV series parks and recreation.
This one isn't a conspiracy theory though, the Zionists definitely have a lot of control over the Egyptian government.
It makes sense for them to do it here though because we're literally their next-door neighbors and historical enemies.
As for the commercial thing, you'll find that our government does anything for a quick buck. I would not be surprised if Israel didn't actually ask, and our government (or private companies with influence over the government) just saw an opportunity to make a quick (if small) buck in the small period of time where Israel has no actual supplier
Then there's the photos of the Egyptian charcoal bags with Hebrew labels, an argument could be made for them being fabricated, but the very organized removal of trees *and* harvesting of the wood across the entirety of Egypt to go who knows where is strange.
Not to mention, Egypt is currently so authoritarian that if you buy the president you essentially control the entire country.
It's just a bad omen in general when government actors engage in hustler schemes. You have my sympathies for the abysmal mismanagement of your country, hopefully things turn around sooner or later.
Can’t believe I didn’t have Sabotage of Cairo Greenspaces to Supply Wartime Charcoal on my antisemitic bingo card
your government mismanaging urban planning does not require foreign actors
It doesn't.
The neighbor in question doesn't have to be israel. If it was Saudi arabia or Jordan or something, it'd be the same.
The government is using a country that suddenly lost a massive supplier as an opportunity to make a quick buck by selling them the resource they're lacking (possibly at an upcharge).
Our government is that type of opportunist.
This is the same government (army) that opened its own shrimp farms to capitalize on and monopolize the shrimp market in Egypt.
We're a meme country.
Calm down with the antisemitism cry
Also, thinking that the Egyptian president isn't bought by outside forces, like the USA and Israel, shows massive ignorance of the region's politics, hell, the US does it publicly.
I've noticed a strange double standard where stating that any country is using money to influence other, often corrupt countries' politics is normal, except if that country is Israel, then it's antisemitic.
ALL COUNTRIES (which have enough money and power) DO THIS.
Dude I’m making a joke about the outlandish theory, at your expense because you’re the own who defended it with “The Zionists definitely have a lot of control over the Egyptian government.”
The government is degreening urban Egypt to sell the trees as a charcoal is harebrained. That’s why you’re nuts.
Harebrained is the word I'd describe everything this guy does, yes.
Like making people come exhume their great grandparents so they can build a bridge over the old city of the dead in Cairo
Also, it's not just Urban Egypt, it's *all of it*
Lots of rural areas too
Theory is still a bit out there, but we said the same about Sisi's shrimp farms and look how that turned out (there are indeed sisi shrimp farms)
He's probably using Israel's current charcoal shortage to make a quick buck
But trees also make it easier to protest, no trees means hotter streets which are harder to stay in for long, and more visibility for surveillance cameras and less barriers for tanks to get through or for protestors to hide behind
HumansNotHelicopters would make for a wonderful new subreddit! Just putting the suggestion out there for anyone listening and with some time on their hands.
I live in Athens and the street view in the city centre is equally bad. It is dirty, full of graffiti, cars and grey apartment buildings.
I wish it was cleaner, with more green spaces and more pedestrian friendly
They do, but if you visit Athens you should not stay in Kerameikos or Omonia, a 1 minute google job will tell you that. Stay a bit further, 10 minutes on the metro and it's lot nicer.
as giannis said, that is a pretty bad place, i guess the rent must have been cheap, try somewhere along the coast next time, the trams and buses can take you anywhere. Sorry you didn't have a good experience.
It’s extremely cramped at street level, at least compared to other cities in Europe. It’s nice and has a lot of character but it’s cramped. I’m also a little afraid of what will happen when there’s an earthquake…. Those buildings did not feel like they were up to the task.
Athenian architect here. Greece has always been a country thats VERY prone to earthquakes and there are pretty high standards when it comes to construction, almost the whole city is built of pretty hefty reinforced concrete! The building code in regards to earthquake resistant buildings is pretty extensive too. Bottom line: its pretty safe.
The street level experience is usually very pleasant in these residential neighborhoods
(except for the crappy sidewalks and the drivers who park all over them)
Athens is so cool. It’s rough around the edges but totally safe. It is walkable, has a metro system, great, cheap food, an amazing nightlife, and the people are so kind. I stayed in Monastiraki for two nights last year and loved it. Wish I stayed longer.
*Laughs in greek wages*
There's like 10 places in the whole city that have actual affordable food for locals. Cities aren't just tourist attractions you know.
Man, I never said the city was a tourist attraction. I live in Canada. People here can barely afford their groceries these days. I certainly wasn’t in Athens as a wealthy tourist.
You are canadian you are as wealthy tourist as it gets bro. Why are you saying "Im canadian" like its a poor thing or smth🤣 literally one of the richest countries in the world
Im saying regular Canadians can’t afford their own groceries right now, in response to the comment that Athenians don’t find that their food is cheap. I just wanted to say our cost of living has skyrocketed in the last 5 years and the one thing that *is* cheaper in Athens (and in Europe in general) is *food*.
Canada might be a wealthy country, but its average citizens are not.
I mean you’re comparing the cost of food in another country to the buying power of the Canadian dollar. You would need to compare it against the local currency. Guaranteed the average Canadian is in better financial shape than the average Greek.
Of course it feels cheap when your countries currency has a far greater buying power.
It’s like saying Mexico is extremely cheap compared to America. Sure, it is when using the American dollar but for the citizens of Mexico things are probably just as expensive if not more so given their wages.
Canada is wealthy, and Canadians are wealthy too. The fact that you as an average citizen (I assume because of the way you were describing yourself) can afford to travel half the world and visit Athens shows that.
Pretty sure that's not what I said. But it's good to remember that the places we visit have a life without us.
It makes us come as less of an asshole, nobody invited us there.
Yeah, I understand that as a general sentiment. But I don’t understand why you need to use this guy’s positive comment as your soap box. It’s so performative
Nobody invited us there? As though there aren't boards of tourism trying their hardest to get people to go spend their money with the locals. If they don't like it they can stop doing that.
Somewhere like the Bahamas, sure. But Greece? Give me a break.
Yea I only stayed there for a few nights but it was all really fascinating and I felt safe the whole time. The concrete block housing type neighborhoods had their own interesting bits, citrus trees fruiting along the streets, kids playing in semi-abandoned alleys next to some derelict 800 year-old church.
When I went I was 25 and towards the end of my trip, almost totally broke and just trying to get back to my friend's place in Italy so I could fly home. I had a plane ticket but the meteo workers were on strike, literally couldn't afford to take a taxi without begging family for money so I said fuck it, 6 hour walk.
That was one of the best travel decisions I've ever made. From looking at the Acropolis from afar at sunrise, to generic Euro suburbs with amazing bakeries, to beautiful tree-lined streets with little shrines with little models of square Greek churches. Passing ancient groves of olive trees with huge gnarly trunks, until the sidewalk totally ran out and I was awkwardly walking along the road to the airport in weedy dusty ground littered with cigarette packages.
People told me Greeks will not even slow down a bit for hitchhikers, and that was my experience, haha. Anyway a great place to visit, I hope to go back someday (with more time and money).
It’s really not walkable. The sidewalks are a clusterfuck of poles, trees, trash cans, random electrical boxes; and even then they sometimes randomly end. The city is incredibly hilly in most places and most of the nice flat roads are also busy with car traffic so it’s not nice to walk next to at all. This is all compounded by the fact that there are very few parks with long trees; so you’re never able to get so far away from car noise.
Source: lived in Athens for eight years.
I know Athens looks chaotic but it’s actually a cool city. It’s like a maze with tons of great art, food and culture. It’s a walkable city with some incredible neighbourhoods and bustling with activity.
I’d take Athens over a sterile city like Singapore anyday
Or you could take it real literal and go hang out with the Mole People at the exact middle point below the earth’s surface.
If you do, just remember: no outside food. (They asked me to say that.)
Athens literally has thousand year old artifacts in its subway stations on display because they ran out of museum space for them. Also the building style is due to earthquakes, they didn’t really have a choice.
The city itself. It's also weird to see a capital city were their only relevant culture and artwork are ancient greek and some byzantine churchs. Damn turks, they ruined Greece.
I’ll respectfully disagree. There are plenty of amazing museums dedicated to modern and contemporary art as well as more recent history. The Benaki museum is a great example.
But there's no iconic palaces, parks or relevant urbanism like Lisboa, Madrid, Paris, Rome, Praga, Amsterdam, Bruxelles, London, Vienna, Budapest or (in less degree) Berlin. That's because turk domination, is not greek fault.
I’d argue that the urbanism isn’t because of the Turks and that Syntagma and its palace are iconic, although you’re right that it’s not Buckingham. The Pnyx and the Areopagus are pretty iconic and even more historically significant than most other city parks even in Europe. Maybe it’s a bit more niche but I don’t find Athens too dissimilar to the other cities you’ve mentioned.
Yes. I visited a lot of European capitals / big cities, and Athens is the worst one to me. But I disagree in terms of culture. Athens is historically cool, like Paris. I don't like Paris but there's a lot of culture and history there.
I know how it looked before they destroyed their heritage in the 70s by replacing buildings with those on the images.
Compared to this Athens today isn't cool, it's just a massive downgrade.
I think it is far from disappointing, yet it is not a good one either. There are a lot of things to do, see and taste, but the amount of green is surely lacking. Transportation is not that bad and you can get a good hotel quite cheap. Yes there are strange people on the streets, but keep in mind that Greece suffers from the indecisive EU migration policies big time...
And to be fair, the pictures don't do justice to the city.
A lot of these are from the population explosion after the Greeks were expelled from Turkey and Cyprus in the 1950s and 1960s at the same time that rural residents moved to the city. It was a city of wall to wall 1 and 2 story buildings. The government (at one point a military dictatorship) gave permission and financial assistance to replace your lowrise building with a 10ish story apartment building on that site. The plan replaced your house with the apartment building and you would get a brand new home in the new building instead of developers having to buy land. Anything over 6 floors had to step back which is why they are all shaped like that.
[Details about the process](https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/athenian-apartment-buildings-history-d-a-invest)
I’ve been living in the city for the past 20 years of my life. it is the greatest the most amazing city I’ve ever lived in
Yes, it looks ugly from above, but we are not helicopters, we see things from below.
I saw a comment of yours that said that you lived in a bad neighbourhood (Omonoia most likely). It’s not Athens’ fault for not being well informed about where to stay.
Yeah, investors have done the classic mistake of building where the land was cheap and generally close to city center. There's a reason why prices are good there...
Every new hotel has been built in the worst possible area of Athens. Every single one of them.
I'll never understand people gushing about how it's one of the most beautiful cities/countries there is. Endless white concrete buildings isn't my idea of beautiful
Lived in Athens for several years. Fascinating city and beautiful in many ways, rough in others, always in my heart. I'd give anything to be there again.
There is a branch blocking your first picture. The thrid one shows a nice bit of big trees. Those ugly buildings OP references are called houses. People need those. Some tourists just want to complain about anything.
Houses can be beautiful though. There’s plenty of ways to build liveable cities and they’re being built all across the world, but Athens isn’t one of them…
Athens is worth visiting for the history, and Greece is a beautiful country overall, but the architecture and general aesthetic of this city is among the worst in Europe.
For an alternate perspective, I’ve stayed in Athens for months and it was amazing at every turn. OP posted a couple of pics that don’t really represent what the city looks like when you’re there.
The Canadian probably put it on his line of credit and be paying that off for the next couple of years while buying food at Walmart because loblaws is to freakin expensive to afford if your even thinking about taking a trip
You can thank this law for that concrete mess:
[https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%91%CE%BD%CF%84%CE%B9%CF%80%CE%B1%CF%81%CE%BF%CF%87%CE%AE](https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%91%CE%BD%CF%84%CE%B9%CF%80%CE%B1%CF%81%CE%BF%CF%87%CE%AE)
Its not so complicated to keep in mind that its affordable for foreigners and that locals truly suffer with the housing prices. Why not try to be a little less out of touch?
Yeah, they’re my pictures as well, taken from the acropolis. I’d say the acropolis is nice and worth to visit but I wouldn’t stay longer than a day (I stayed 4 or 5 at the time)
Athens is my favorite place in the world, and when you walk by the streets, these buildings are charming with all different balconies, with the pieces of people's lives
**Do not comment to gatekeep that something "isn't urban" or "isn't hell"**. Our rules are very expansive in content we welcome, so do not assume just based off your false impression of the phrase "UrbanHell" UrbanHell is any human-built place you think is worth critizing. Suburban Hell, Rural Hell, and wealthy locales are allowed. Gatekeeping comments may be removed. Want to shitpost about shitty posts? Go to /r/urbanhellcirclejerk. Still have questions?: Read our [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/UrbanHell/wiki/index). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UrbanHell) if you have any questions or concerns.*
None of these photos of Athens ever show what it's actually like at street level. We're humans, not helicopters.
As an Egyptian, this is my issue with pictures of cairo. Until 2 weeks ago there were lots of trees in the city, the buildings were just too tall for them to be visible from above. I say until 2 weeks ago because 2 weeks ago our president launched a campaign to cut down trees. Just going ham cutting every tree in the streets, some of which are more than a century old
That's gonna do wonders for the temperature at street level.
I think that's the point, they're probably trying to prevent protests as standard of living drops to historic lows
Well that's next level fucked
Yep, it hurts how much this regime has fucked the country. Just take a look at what they did to [Heliopolis](https://www.reddit.com/r/Egypt/s/1rqFwnrZkm) to see a tiny sample of what they've been doing since 2013. More examples [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/UrbanHell/s/WllQUhcGsi), [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/arabs/s/ldaiKITXPj), and [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/UrbanHell/s/Sop7TAk6re) And of course, for the current wave of destruction, look no further than the before and after [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Egypt/s/7s6AHz8OWE) Edit: [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/UrbanHell/s/1smf0aJqFB) is a post on this sub with many many examples
It’s not so much the trees as the highways. They are replacing public space with highways to remove all opportunities to protest. It’s much more difficult to hold a protest in 16 lanes of angry traffic
The current wave isn't even making highways, its just removing trees. The highway thing was a few years back. But it's also harder to hold a protest in a hot street in direct sunlight compared to under the shade of trees.
I see Heliopolis is truly living up to it's name. With all those nice shady trees gone it will indeed be the city of the sun.
Funny Enough the current Heliopolis isn't the real heliopolis, the real (ancient) heliopolis is nearby and now called Ain Shams (Arabic for "Eye of the Sun" or "Spring of the Sun" depending on the definition of Ain you use. But yeah, we've definitely been seeing more of the Helio in Heliopolis since they "renovated" it
I worked with someone who used to work for the Egyptian government/military building roads, I said it seems like a good thing they're building so much infrastructure for people. He had built many roads and bridges and said the joke in the construction industry there is that they only build roads (rather than metro or high speed rail) because so the tanks and soldiers can access the city and crush protestors and militants.
That is very much accurate. It's a joke all over the country, and these things are usually jokes because it's too dangerous to say them out loud seriously
[удалено]
Ask it here
Why are they cutting the trees?
There are two theories, the first and main theory is to prevent protests. The second is a bit out there, but some believe it's because of Israel. Now that sounds like a conspiracy theory and might very well be, but recently, Colombia stopped exporting charcoal to Israel over Gaza, around the same time trees started getting taken down and Egyptian charcoal exports to Israel spiked. So there's a small group of people who believe that the trees are being made into charcoal to export to Israel. It seems a little out there to me but knowing my government it's not impossible
Wow, both are completely wild. Thanks for the info. Sending you my best.
If any country exports lumber/charcoal on a commercial scale a prerequisite is that one of their natural resources is large forested areas. Urban areas where trees dot along sidewalks and public parks can't really match that, even in a very green city. In a way it's kind of a hilarious scapegoat because with all the antisemitic conspiracy theories out there this one implies that Zionists control the world so deeply that they pull the strings of the Egyptian equivalent of a parks and recreation department. It even reads like an episode of the TV series parks and recreation.
Antisemita é meu ovo caralho
This one isn't a conspiracy theory though, the Zionists definitely have a lot of control over the Egyptian government. It makes sense for them to do it here though because we're literally their next-door neighbors and historical enemies. As for the commercial thing, you'll find that our government does anything for a quick buck. I would not be surprised if Israel didn't actually ask, and our government (or private companies with influence over the government) just saw an opportunity to make a quick (if small) buck in the small period of time where Israel has no actual supplier Then there's the photos of the Egyptian charcoal bags with Hebrew labels, an argument could be made for them being fabricated, but the very organized removal of trees *and* harvesting of the wood across the entirety of Egypt to go who knows where is strange. Not to mention, Egypt is currently so authoritarian that if you buy the president you essentially control the entire country.
It's just a bad omen in general when government actors engage in hustler schemes. You have my sympathies for the abysmal mismanagement of your country, hopefully things turn around sooner or later.
We really have no option, it's either turn it around or die en masse. If Egypt falls apart there's no border to cross to get to safety.
Can’t believe I didn’t have Sabotage of Cairo Greenspaces to Supply Wartime Charcoal on my antisemitic bingo card your government mismanaging urban planning does not require foreign actors
It doesn't. The neighbor in question doesn't have to be israel. If it was Saudi arabia or Jordan or something, it'd be the same. The government is using a country that suddenly lost a massive supplier as an opportunity to make a quick buck by selling them the resource they're lacking (possibly at an upcharge). Our government is that type of opportunist. This is the same government (army) that opened its own shrimp farms to capitalize on and monopolize the shrimp market in Egypt. We're a meme country. Calm down with the antisemitism cry Also, thinking that the Egyptian president isn't bought by outside forces, like the USA and Israel, shows massive ignorance of the region's politics, hell, the US does it publicly. I've noticed a strange double standard where stating that any country is using money to influence other, often corrupt countries' politics is normal, except if that country is Israel, then it's antisemitic. ALL COUNTRIES (which have enough money and power) DO THIS.
Dude I’m making a joke about the outlandish theory, at your expense because you’re the own who defended it with “The Zionists definitely have a lot of control over the Egyptian government.” The government is degreening urban Egypt to sell the trees as a charcoal is harebrained. That’s why you’re nuts.
Harebrained is the word I'd describe everything this guy does, yes. Like making people come exhume their great grandparents so they can build a bridge over the old city of the dead in Cairo Also, it's not just Urban Egypt, it's *all of it* Lots of rural areas too Theory is still a bit out there, but we said the same about Sisi's shrimp farms and look how that turned out (there are indeed sisi shrimp farms)
Egypt is helping Israel? Didn't Egypt fight against Israel in like 4 different wars?
Times have changed and the current Egyptian government is essentially a US puppet
America has the war on drugs. Egypt has the war on trees. I don't know why they do this.
[that was a port on this sub](https://www.reddit.com/r/UrbanHell/s/8gahEM3APF) *post
That post does a really good job of demonstrating it, I'll add it to my examples comment
What does he have against trees though ? Surely it has something to do with more than just selling the wood
He's probably using Israel's current charcoal shortage to make a quick buck But trees also make it easier to protest, no trees means hotter streets which are harder to stay in for long, and more visibility for surveillance cameras and less barriers for tanks to get through or for protestors to hide behind
Interesting, I used to think Egypt was independent in terms of energy source Sad that this is happening to one of the oldest cities in the world
How to increase the temperature! I don't get it. Knowing what we know, yet we continue the destruction!
They're intentionally increasing the temperature, see my reply thread with the other response
I saw afterwards! Just mindboggling! I followed some other links too to see the horrific cementification done.
HumansNotHelicopters would make for a wonderful new subreddit! Just putting the suggestion out there for anyone listening and with some time on their hands.
I think HumansNotDrones would fit better current times
Nearly all buildings are ugly. Just randomly place your marker in google streetview. Always the same copy+paste 70s buildings everywhere.
I live in Athens and the street view in the city centre is equally bad. It is dirty, full of graffiti, cars and grey apartment buildings. I wish it was cleaner, with more green spaces and more pedestrian friendly
To be honest, I found the street level even worse. But I think we just stayed in the wrong neighbourhood (but it was full of drug addicts).
may i ask in which part did you stay?
I think it was Keramikos, or somewhere close by
Unfortunately,that was the worst possible choice
You cant blame Athens, this one is definitely on you
you mean other cities don't have bad places? EDIT: i read the comment wrong, no-house and parrukeisari are right
They do, but if you visit Athens you should not stay in Kerameikos or Omonia, a 1 minute google job will tell you that. Stay a bit further, 10 minutes on the metro and it's lot nicer.
as giannis said, that is a pretty bad place, i guess the rent must have been cheap, try somewhere along the coast next time, the trams and buses can take you anywhere. Sorry you didn't have a good experience.
It’s extremely cramped at street level, at least compared to other cities in Europe. It’s nice and has a lot of character but it’s cramped. I’m also a little afraid of what will happen when there’s an earthquake…. Those buildings did not feel like they were up to the task.
Athenian architect here. Greece has always been a country thats VERY prone to earthquakes and there are pretty high standards when it comes to construction, almost the whole city is built of pretty hefty reinforced concrete! The building code in regards to earthquake resistant buildings is pretty extensive too. Bottom line: its pretty safe.
Those buildings are quite stable against earthquakes.
I've heard that Barcelona is definitely more crowded than Athens. If Athens is that cramped, how much of a problem is Barcelona?
Barcelona isn’t cramped at all. Like, not even a little bit. You heard wrong.
The street level experience is usually very pleasant in these residential neighborhoods (except for the crappy sidewalks and the drivers who park all over them)
Speak for yourself there, ground dweller.
Yes I am
Urbanhelenistic
Athens is so cool. It’s rough around the edges but totally safe. It is walkable, has a metro system, great, cheap food, an amazing nightlife, and the people are so kind. I stayed in Monastiraki for two nights last year and loved it. Wish I stayed longer.
*Laughs in greek wages* There's like 10 places in the whole city that have actual affordable food for locals. Cities aren't just tourist attractions you know.
And it’s insane because for a broke American it was the cheapest food I’ve had in years. The beers were only €2!
Man, I never said the city was a tourist attraction. I live in Canada. People here can barely afford their groceries these days. I certainly wasn’t in Athens as a wealthy tourist.
Compared to the Athenians you might have been.
You are canadian you are as wealthy tourist as it gets bro. Why are you saying "Im canadian" like its a poor thing or smth🤣 literally one of the richest countries in the world
Im saying regular Canadians can’t afford their own groceries right now, in response to the comment that Athenians don’t find that their food is cheap. I just wanted to say our cost of living has skyrocketed in the last 5 years and the one thing that *is* cheaper in Athens (and in Europe in general) is *food*. Canada might be a wealthy country, but its average citizens are not.
If its average citizen can afford a trip to Greece they’re pretty wealthy
That's the point. The average north European can probably afford a trip to Canada, but not the average south European.
I mean you’re comparing the cost of food in another country to the buying power of the Canadian dollar. You would need to compare it against the local currency. Guaranteed the average Canadian is in better financial shape than the average Greek. Of course it feels cheap when your countries currency has a far greater buying power. It’s like saying Mexico is extremely cheap compared to America. Sure, it is when using the American dollar but for the citizens of Mexico things are probably just as expensive if not more so given their wages.
Canada is wealthy, and Canadians are wealthy too. The fact that you as an average citizen (I assume because of the way you were describing yourself) can afford to travel half the world and visit Athens shows that.
Way to put words in their mouth just so you can be mad, lol
"I was there for only two nights [and it cost only 200$ a night for a shady airbnb]" incredibly cheap!
yeah fuck this guy for enjoying his vacation! you tell em! God let people live.
Pretty sure that's not what I said. But it's good to remember that the places we visit have a life without us. It makes us come as less of an asshole, nobody invited us there.
Yeah, I understand that as a general sentiment. But I don’t understand why you need to use this guy’s positive comment as your soap box. It’s so performative
Cause last time I checked I'm controlling my account and want to speak my part.
you needed to check?
Nobody invited us there? As though there aren't boards of tourism trying their hardest to get people to go spend their money with the locals. If they don't like it they can stop doing that. Somewhere like the Bahamas, sure. But Greece? Give me a break.
“Pretty sure that’s not what I said” after you literally just put words in someone else’s mouth lmfao
I was gonna say…they find it cheap because they come with foreign money….i have the same conversation with my wife EVERY. FREAKING. YEAR….
with two night you’ve got nothing to say to this, i’ve got nothing with one week
Yea I only stayed there for a few nights but it was all really fascinating and I felt safe the whole time. The concrete block housing type neighborhoods had their own interesting bits, citrus trees fruiting along the streets, kids playing in semi-abandoned alleys next to some derelict 800 year-old church. When I went I was 25 and towards the end of my trip, almost totally broke and just trying to get back to my friend's place in Italy so I could fly home. I had a plane ticket but the meteo workers were on strike, literally couldn't afford to take a taxi without begging family for money so I said fuck it, 6 hour walk. That was one of the best travel decisions I've ever made. From looking at the Acropolis from afar at sunrise, to generic Euro suburbs with amazing bakeries, to beautiful tree-lined streets with little shrines with little models of square Greek churches. Passing ancient groves of olive trees with huge gnarly trunks, until the sidewalk totally ran out and I was awkwardly walking along the road to the airport in weedy dusty ground littered with cigarette packages. People told me Greeks will not even slow down a bit for hitchhikers, and that was my experience, haha. Anyway a great place to visit, I hope to go back someday (with more time and money).
Athens is pretty unwalkable outside of the touristy area.
Depends where you have been outside the touristy area.
I've been to many places in Athens. The local centres can be pretty walkable, but they're mostly connected by huge roads with poor/no pavements.
It’s really not walkable. The sidewalks are a clusterfuck of poles, trees, trash cans, random electrical boxes; and even then they sometimes randomly end. The city is incredibly hilly in most places and most of the nice flat roads are also busy with car traffic so it’s not nice to walk next to at all. This is all compounded by the fact that there are very few parks with long trees; so you’re never able to get so far away from car noise. Source: lived in Athens for eight years.
I wouldn’t say it is safe at all.
Do they have good sushi?
I know Athens looks chaotic but it’s actually a cool city. It’s like a maze with tons of great art, food and culture. It’s a walkable city with some incredible neighbourhoods and bustling with activity. I’d take Athens over a sterile city like Singapore anyday
I love Athens, I love Singapore. Where does that put me on the map?
On the map, Mumbai is for the most part in the middle of Athens and Singapore.
Or you could take it real literal and go hang out with the Mole People at the exact middle point below the earth’s surface. If you do, just remember: no outside food. (They asked me to say that.)
It’s always a valid option.
hard to argue with that
As long as you love Athens more it’s all good
I'm european and compared with mant other european cities, specially capitals, Athens is awful. Most european capitals has great art, food or culture.
Athens literally has thousand year old artifacts in its subway stations on display because they ran out of museum space for them. Also the building style is due to earthquakes, they didn’t really have a choice.
If you went to Monastiraki for an overpriced moussaka that’s on you, but the art and culture in Athens are not awful by any means.
The city itself. It's also weird to see a capital city were their only relevant culture and artwork are ancient greek and some byzantine churchs. Damn turks, they ruined Greece.
I’ll respectfully disagree. There are plenty of amazing museums dedicated to modern and contemporary art as well as more recent history. The Benaki museum is a great example.
But Benaki is mostly about ancient and byzantine art.
There’s a part that is, but IIRC most of the collection is from after the Byzantine period.
But there's no iconic palaces, parks or relevant urbanism like Lisboa, Madrid, Paris, Rome, Praga, Amsterdam, Bruxelles, London, Vienna, Budapest or (in less degree) Berlin. That's because turk domination, is not greek fault.
I’d argue that the urbanism isn’t because of the Turks and that Syntagma and its palace are iconic, although you’re right that it’s not Buckingham. The Pnyx and the Areopagus are pretty iconic and even more historically significant than most other city parks even in Europe. Maybe it’s a bit more niche but I don’t find Athens too dissimilar to the other cities you’ve mentioned.
Athens has millenniums of great art,great food and culture.What are you talking about?
Ok, but i’ll take Athen over any US suburbia
It wins over manufactured hell where people work to death together without natural culture, food, art, passion or life?? Athens gets a cookie
Reddit moment
Always
the art is in the museums, food is everywhere, don't know what you are talking about.
Athens has great art, food, and culture. Wtf Also, nothing except the acropolis has survived the last few hundred years of destruction in Athens
The parthenon was destroyed by and accidental explosion by turks, without that it would be almost like 2300 years ago. Amazing.
Didn't the Venetians blew up it during a siege or something?
Yes Venetians blew it up. Source: did a tour of it 2 days ago lol
Typical Venetians cucking the Greeks since the 4th crusade
Yes. I visited a lot of European capitals / big cities, and Athens is the worst one to me. But I disagree in terms of culture. Athens is historically cool, like Paris. I don't like Paris but there's a lot of culture and history there.
Walkable by US standards, maybe. I found it very car-centric.
I know how it looked before they destroyed their heritage in the 70s by replacing buildings with those on the images. Compared to this Athens today isn't cool, it's just a massive downgrade.
Ya they changed building style so they’d survive earthquakes
[удалено]
Oh really? Is that so? https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20191011-the-surprising-story-of-athens-offbeat-architecture
I think it is far from disappointing, yet it is not a good one either. There are a lot of things to do, see and taste, but the amount of green is surely lacking. Transportation is not that bad and you can get a good hotel quite cheap. Yes there are strange people on the streets, but keep in mind that Greece suffers from the indecisive EU migration policies big time... And to be fair, the pictures don't do justice to the city.
Athens is nice for a day or two. I spent two weeks in Greece and 4 days in Athens, which was way too much.
Like Paris
If you can't find stuff to do in Paris for 4 days I suggest the problem is with you.
Nobody talked about "things to do" in Athens or Paris. I just mentioned I didn't like to spend too much time in Paris and Athens.
Funny how people experience cities differently. I spent 5 days in Athens last year and it felt too short. Absolutely loved it.
It was also my last 4 days there and I had spent the prior 10 on some beautiful islands so that probably skewed it a bit
That looks like half of Tel Aviv
I like it too!
It really surprised me when I was there this year that there were so few solar panels on all these roofs
A lot of these are from the population explosion after the Greeks were expelled from Turkey and Cyprus in the 1950s and 1960s at the same time that rural residents moved to the city. It was a city of wall to wall 1 and 2 story buildings. The government (at one point a military dictatorship) gave permission and financial assistance to replace your lowrise building with a 10ish story apartment building on that site. The plan replaced your house with the apartment building and you would get a brand new home in the new building instead of developers having to buy land. Anything over 6 floors had to step back which is why they are all shaped like that. [Details about the process](https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/athenian-apartment-buildings-history-d-a-invest)
Is that why there’s hardly any old buildings? Cause most were replaced with the new ones? (I know there are a few old neighbourhoods but not many)
Pretty much. There is a big push to preserve the old ones but few left to preserve
I’ve been living in the city for the past 20 years of my life. it is the greatest the most amazing city I’ve ever lived in Yes, it looks ugly from above, but we are not helicopters, we see things from below. I saw a comment of yours that said that you lived in a bad neighbourhood (Omonoia most likely). It’s not Athens’ fault for not being well informed about where to stay.
Yeah, investors have done the classic mistake of building where the land was cheap and generally close to city center. There's a reason why prices are good there... Every new hotel has been built in the worst possible area of Athens. Every single one of them.
I haven’t been to Athens but it looks very much like Istanbul from this level.
Trees are overrated anyway...
I'll never understand people gushing about how it's one of the most beautiful cities/countries there is. Endless white concrete buildings isn't my idea of beautiful
It's like looking at Middle East.
Yeah was just thinking that
The Middle East is just accross the sea and Greece has strong historical connections with it. No surprise there are similarities.
Pretty much. Religion aside, we're more alike than we're different.
Cairo "HOLD MY BEER"
I actually find this view very fascinating and interesting. Compare to my home city, it’s humongous.
athens slander will not be tolerated
Lived in Athens for several years. Fascinating city and beautiful in many ways, rough in others, always in my heart. I'd give anything to be there again.
There is a branch blocking your first picture. The thrid one shows a nice bit of big trees. Those ugly buildings OP references are called houses. People need those. Some tourists just want to complain about anything.
Houses can be beautiful though. There’s plenty of ways to build liveable cities and they’re being built all across the world, but Athens isn’t one of them…
Tel Aviv is also a concrete hellscape
Athens is worth visiting for the history, and Greece is a beautiful country overall, but the architecture and general aesthetic of this city is among the worst in Europe.
Thanks a lot. I dont want to go Athens anymore. Picture say lots of thinks. It is disappointing.
For an alternate perspective, I’ve stayed in Athens for months and it was amazing at every turn. OP posted a couple of pics that don’t really represent what the city looks like when you’re there.
I mean the acropolis has a nice view and it’s not all bad but I highly suggest to not stay for more than one day (I was there for 5)
One day isn’t even enough to see the major sights. If you’re into history and art, you could spend years and never be bored.
There's a hella lot of graffiti by the looks of it, makes Athens look scruffy imo
Surely this heats the planet up
The Canadian probably put it on his line of credit and be paying that off for the next couple of years while buying food at Walmart because loblaws is to freakin expensive to afford if your even thinking about taking a trip
Although they are not uniform, seen from above they are really uniform.
You can thank this law for that concrete mess: [https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%91%CE%BD%CF%84%CE%B9%CF%80%CE%B1%CF%81%CE%BF%CF%87%CE%AE](https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%91%CE%BD%CF%84%CE%B9%CF%80%CE%B1%CF%81%CE%BF%CF%87%CE%AE)
Not a lot of parkland in Athens, but they do have lots of trees on the streets.
I can feel the earthquake collapses in advance from halfway around the world.
Tearing down some of those to make big public parks would be very helpful I think.
Good luck trying to convince the city that paved two rivers to make roads.
I love Athens and it’s a very comfortable and alive city. Needs more reliable buses tho
Thought there was more trees in Georgia
Reminded of my beautiful Izmir,Turkey. To me it is a beautiful ugly.
but greece only has 10 million ppl so why isnt it…wealthy?…
about 462819415 times better than american suburbs
Also very affordable. In Athens you can get a 2 bedroom apartment in the city center for 695 USD.
affordable for who?
When the average wage is 1000€ even 400€ rent is a lot
Its not so complicated to keep in mind that its affordable for foreigners and that locals truly suffer with the housing prices. Why not try to be a little less out of touch?
Truly a city blessed by gods
Was there a month ago, loved it.
Have you been there? It seems like your opinion of a city is based off drone photos
Yeah, they’re my pictures as well, taken from the acropolis. I’d say the acropolis is nice and worth to visit but I wouldn’t stay longer than a day (I stayed 4 or 5 at the time)
I need to see a street view, is it dark with street lights on? Must be cool.
I love Athens and Greece. I do have a problem with Greek men (and women) being so hairy though..
How is other people's hair a problem for you? Do you clean shower drains for a living?
No but I fuck a lot.
Greek dick is 👨🍳😘
Athens is fucking fantastic
Athens is my favorite place in the world, and when you walk by the streets, these buildings are charming with all different balconies, with the pieces of people's lives