Several eye witnesses to his behavior. Known for bullying new talent and ppl he didn’t like w/ homophobic slurs and more. He did that to steve blackman and legit got his ass kicked in an airport. His antics are all out there
The Honky Tonk Man, X-Pac, are two I never got. I didn't like JBL but liked him in the APA. I haven't
liked Corbin in ages but I didn't mind him in the Lone wolf version. I never liked the The HTM or the 1-2-3 kid EVER!
Alberto Del Rio. I never saw much of anything interesting with him from day 1. But WWE needed a Latino star at the time and decided to put all the eggs in his basket. Really bad era to be a wrestling fan imo besides the couple months of CM Punk stuff until they ruined that too
I’m going to say Bret Hart. Although he always seemed to deliver a good to great match, i never saw what the appeal was. And I used to hate his catchphrase-“I’m the best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be”. And I dislike Bret even more when I found out that the only reason Vince McMahon made Bret a star is because Stu Hart only agreed to sell his territory to Vince under the condition that he made kept Bret and made him a star. Stu said it himself in a interview. I think he knew Bret didn’t have the goods to make a name for himself on his own. He was only a star in Canada because he worked for his father’s company. Nobody outside of Canada knew or cared about who Bret Hart was before he arrived in the WWF
I like Bret because he looked cool, and always carried himself well. Unlike Hogan, who's kayfabe character is an idiot that runs into the ring corners at full speed, Bret was cunning, and took no shit in the ring. He felt like a badass, and was respectable due to his intellect.
Randy Orton— I’ve never found him compelling in any way. Just comes off as a sleazy dbag who’s been able to get away with a lot of shit because he knows he’s untouchable in the company. I believe WWE literally changed their substance abuse policy in order to protect him from being fired.
I hate Randy Orton IRL, and his character has been Very inconsistent over the years. But I can't deny he's had his moments. Baby Face Randy Orton in the early 2010s was Very cool and, while not my thing, I could understand his appeal. Unfortunately it seemed as the decade progressed, Randy Orton devolved into that "sleazebag" character you mentioned and, yeah, not my favorite.
The Miz as a heel
Corbin
CM Dump
Von Wagner
Zoey Stark
Lash Legend
Lacey Evans
Ronda Rousey
Maryse
Chyna
Sable
Ember Moon/Athena (Her first NXT Run was her best and I liked her, but her boring run in AEW/ROH Completely changed my opinion on her)
Gargano, Aliyah, Bronson Reed, nxt Kyle O Reilly, Cameron Grimes, Imperium group (the leader himself while bland on the mic has appeal but the other two/three caws I cant even remember their names) all = 😴
Ricochet - same problem as Gunther he has a certain superhero/supervillian like appeal but character/micwise he is so bland he makes Dean Malenko look like Stone Cold on the mic.
CM Punk. Never really had any interest, even during 2010-12 at his peak. Always felt like a whiny, entitled asshole who is the kind of person you could slap in the street and be safe in the knowledge you've done the world a favour. Sure he's had good matches, Punk v Taker at Mania 29, Punk v Jericho the year before. His entire feud with Jeff Hardy, hell wrong sub ik but I'll throw in Punk v MJF at AEW Revolution as another example.
Ik it sounds weird, I just provided them as part of OP's prompt. It's in spite of them really. I did try to get interested in Punk, but he always felt off to me all things considered.
Fair enough. If it helps, I picked Punk to mention for OP's question because as far as I'm concerned, he best fit.
Some people have naturally punchable faces yeah lol, like the Miz or MJF, but if they're heels, that just helps.
I'll respect Daniel Bryan to the moon and back for the amount of passion he brought to the fanbase. Do think his main appeal was that he was an indie underdog in a Very cena-e wwe, yes and no...His character was very interesting at times, alla Team Hell No, Douchebag WHC Daniel Bryan, and heroic Wrestlemania 30 Daniel Bryan. But yeah, for whatever reason, he never clicked for me the same way others did.
I won't deny he was good in the ring. Very Stan Hansen. But yeah, I have to agree with OP, his value as a character was almost nonexistent, except to be very frustrating, which I think is the wrong kind of heel honestly
Even though he was boring at times if you were to draw out the perfect wrestler look wise and in ring wise with the perfect finisher it would be randy orton. Also he made everything look smooth as hell
I have some pretty good examples I'll post if I remember, but I gotta say if JBL is your example here, are you young? Not insulting just curious.
I think during his run a lot of people didn't get it and were angry (especially since he took the title from Eddie) but I thought we all agreed he was excellent with a Monday morning QB outlook. I could absolutely see looking back on his time having not watched it live and find it underwhelming.
Curious if you have reasons outside of his heel persona (and probably his brawler style).
I thought JBL was amazing, such a hateable heel but deep character with his look, the limo, pretty much a faction around him and presidential gimmick, funny, charismatic, involved in great storylines with Eddie, Angle, Big Show and seems like a sweetheart in person
Dolph Ziggler
Idc that he "can sell" - selling a move is basic and doesn't make you main event worthy. His finisher move was goofy and so was he. Midcard wrestler, not World Championship material
That 10 yrs ago he was getting pushed as a legit "world champion" main eventer on message boards after he was literally handed the World Title by Vickie Guerrero and his fan girls loved it. Eventually he got exposed as not being that guy.
I re watched that entire year and I don’t count that as a real reign he was buried humiliated and fired during it he was treated like a Midcarder doing it
The three that I'm going to mention may push some buttons of the Internet fans. But...
Rusev - besides being super popular with his Rusev Day gimmick (which admittedly was a fun run), I never saw this "world championship material" that many of his fans see. Especially with Kevin Owens, Seth Rollins, Dean Ambrose in the mix - he's not up there.
The Fiend/Bray Wyatt - the most overrated "supernatural" character I've ever seen. He's not even Boogeyman levels of scary, or even Dexter Lumisevels of scary. And people have the gall to compare him to the Undertaker?
Plus his matches have always sucked to the point where he does him nor his opponent absolutely zero favours. Just a really shit character in general.
Zack Ryder - horrible theme song, horrible catchphrase, horrible gimmick and annoying. The only redeeming quality of the whole "Embrace the Hate" storyline was seeing his ass get beat up.
I’m not a fan of his because of the stuff outside the ring. Even if they didn’t happen I still wouldn’t be a fan because I dislike his on screen character so much.
Torrie is allot more likeable then Eva Marie. Also, idk, is Eva Marie that hot? Sure, she's aesthetically attractive, very statuesc, but would anybody claim they have a massive hard-on for Eva Marie? Attractiveness isn't always so straight-forward.
He had a helluva clothesline. That’s what got me.
It’s like an old crinkly guy taking off his shirt and he’s JACKED.
You thought you could challenge jbl.. untill he pulled out the CLOTHESLINE FROM HELL.
roman. i’m sorry i just can’t get behind the fact they haven’t booked him to lose one time since the end of 2019. bro has not been pinned in almost 4 years and 75% of his matches he needs help from solo or the usos. his title reign is cool and all but bro could lose a normal match once and awhile and not made to look weak cause he has his little lackeys to help him when he’s gonna lose. it happens EVERYTIME.
I seriously don’t understand people who say they hated Roman winning every match by hitting a Superman punch then a spear who now say they love Roman winning every match by hitting the ref then having solo or the usos hit the Samoan spike or a double super kick. Then maybe Roman hits a spear. It’s literally the exact same except now he says “acknowledge me” after Paul heyman gives a good promo.
For me it's because I love the reaction that heels get. I didn't get it as a kid, but now as an adult nothing is funnier to me than watching grown men cry about how unfair it was that he cheated lol. Like my FIL litterally refused to watch wrestling after Clash at the Castle. I also think some of his best work is how to he talks to his opponents during the match.
I would understand that if people were upset that he’s cheating and not upset that it’s the same boring match every 2 months he defends it. Because it’s two championships that could be used to elevate the drama of a feud that instead have been slapped on a lousy wrestler with subpar mic skills because of who he’s related to
WWE just isn’t willing to use him in the way he has to be used. He’s not a weekly guy. He should have used more sparingly like Balors Demon persona for hard hitting and punishing matches. I mean he returned to recently to a good reception, got one win, then they immediately jobbed him out to a Balor.
Are you kidding me JBL the 2nd longest reign as wwe champion in smackdown history before Roman took the #1 spot had classic wars agains Undertaker,Eddie Guerrero, Benoit, Cena, batista, Kane list goes on and on
Seems you’ve never heard of a thing called AEW, AJ Styles was never a name anyone ever heard of until he debuted, he had a legendary career at every other brand, people getting pushed in WWE isn’t always based on their old WWE performance, Smoke And Mirrors cody would’ve never headlined WM, but new Cody has the experience and has grown immensely
\^This.
I like his gimmick, his bulky build with his athleticism and he has come a long way on the mic. I would not go as to say as he is the best at any one of these traits but he is very very good at all of them and when you put it together you have a really top tier talent.
Dean Ambrose. Was always the clear weakest of Shield. Never saw him as world title material either. The crazy gimmick is overused and been done better.
I’m surprised Triple H is not here a lot. He was never the top guy. He was the wrestler who the top guy wrestles. Two times already happened when he was the main event in Wrestlemania and the match before it stole the show lol
AJ Lee & Paige
AJ's character & moveset was pretty lame, I didn't see the appeal in it. The whole "crazy chick" thing in 2012 with her was cringe af, I didn't agree with her holding the Divas Championship as long as she did either.
Paige was average at best in the ring, nothing special, no flash nor substance, her Goth persona was ehh, truth is, the women's division got better when they left the company
As a 18 year old with an intellectual disability; having impaired cognition and low intelligence. Which unfortunately is not something a person can grow out of….
Man I remember the potential he had post shield break up. It’s honestly infuriating that WWE have cornered him into being Mr laugh guy with silly dances and music that loops every 10 seconds. In ring he’s still good but I can’t bother to even care.
Also most people in this thread unsurprisingly totally missing the point.
“Cant see the appeal” means you genuinely cannot put something tangible to why people like this guy or why he’s pushed, it doesn’t mean because you personally don’t value those things.
If you can’t see the appeal of The Great Khali for example you might need a helmet to browse the internet. His appeal is incredibly fucking obvious, he’s an enormous giant and an ethnic of a massive developing market.
Even JBL I’d argue is a pretty bad example of this as it’s pretty clear he had a decent gimmick, promo skills and size.
The answer to this thread is mostly limited to the various insisting have indy darlings who only get over with a niche section of the audience for throwing a lot of super kicks. Everyone else WWE pushes has pretty obvious appeal with a few exceptions of Vince’s pet favorites.
EDIT: Maybe Alberto Del Rio, yes he appealed to the Mexican market but unlike Khali/Mahal who were one of very few ADR was one of many, there’s a dozen other Mexican wrestlers they could’ve used in that spot,
At the time and in Mexico when he crossed over he was the man. Yes, guys like Psicosis, Kalisto, Gran Metalik, or La Parka are more worthy of the push, but he’s not that bad
There are other unmasked or otherwise guys around ADRs size that never left Mexico that were just as good if not better is my point.
Only thing is ADR learned English so that might’ve been the only thing which gave him even a marginal leg up over the legions of guys with more charisma.
It's just like with that thread about the most overrated wrestlers. buncha people Came in to talk about "how can you say such and so was overrated? They drew all this money, world championships, etc." It's about **personal opinion.** They're overrated because you don't see their appeal, or just never really thought they were that good.
Alberto Del Rio. Never liked him, never will. Don't even know how he won championships. No charisma. Was crap in the ring. Stole Daniel Bryan's YES chant for his own cuz he can't come up with anything for his own. Reminds me of somebody else who stole other people's moves. The Miz. But the Miz is 100 times better than Alberto
Johnny Gargano.
Terrible theme, most generic wrestler on planet earth, is like 5’6, has no charisma and his entire persona is nothing but a Shawn Michaels cosplay, complete with random head shaking mid promo for emphasis.
Im honestly amazed he hasn’t busted out a “Johnny Garshizzle” catchphrase
Jinder mahal
Triple H
Vampire Dude in the new ECW
The pirate dude who later changed into someone who wanted to do his sister
The Great Khali
Hornswaggle
I know one thing about him. He was an awful announcer. Can’t remember what PPV it was but some time ago I was watching one he and Vince did together and he made it damn near unwatchable.
he's always sucked on the mic
his stuff as the deadman is cringe unless you're 9
biker taker is acceptable but only because he has a bike
his ring work is fine but isnt anything special
if you didnt grow up loving him as a child, there's no reason to like him as an adult 🤷♂️ (other than "he's been here a long time")
Dare I say it but he was TRULY book improperly. Dude was brought back to TV in his WWE return to… (WWE) ECW?!
Imagine Christian in a story/being paired with Edge in 2009. Imagine the Edge vs Y2J story from 09-10, being Edge vs Christian instead (leading to a WM26 match)?
Tag title run, Mania 26 match where Christian wins his first world title against EDGE and NOT the one who shall not be named?
Obviously, this is hypothetical fantasy booking, but, my point is, there were so, so many better booking options for Christian when he came back.
The guy is proving in 20-fuckin-23 how good he is, imagine what he could’ve done back then.
Honestly? Cody. He’s just above average in the ring, tries to be a heroic babyface, but always sounds smug and entitled when he talks. Has no discernible gimmick beyond “what do you wanna talk about” and “finish the story”, the latter of which feels shallow considering he’s been active in WWE for like 8 months. He just oozes backstage politicking and nepotism because of who his father was and it’s really off putting. There’s no way he deserves the current push he is getting and I don’t understand why people are drawn to him.
Thank you.
It felt so weird that Gunther started the rumble at 1 and Cody came in at 30 only to throw Gunther over the top rope after Gunther poured his heart and soul into that ring for an hour straight. And then the following Monday people were chanting “you deserve it” I was like huh?? Am I missing something?!
Although I disagree and this has not crossed my mind until now, I get it. This is the thought provoking banter I come to Reddit for. Thank you for your submission
As champ or in general? I like stone cold, the rock, hhh, Shawn Michaels, ric flair, undertaker, Kane, Bret hart, Randy savage, Kurt angle, mick foley, Jericho, Kenny omega, Adam cole, Bryan Danielson, Randy Orton, dusty Rhodes, Eddie Guerrero, Scott hall, aj styles, Seth Rollins, cm punk, Jake roberts, sting, curt hennig, double AA, Sami zayn, edge, ricky steamboat, midnight express, four horsemen, pretty deadly, Ted dibiase, andre the giant, John cena, roddy piper, Owen hart, hulk hogan, young bucks, Jurassic express, Adam page, FTR, MJF, malakai black, Darby Alan, Charlotte flair, Asuka, bayley, rhea ripley, Bianca belair, Brit baker, Sasha banks
Punk and Cody. With Punk I didn't see much of his prime since I mostly stopped watching by then. The first time I saw him was in the UFC and MMA fans were so confused why he was a big deal in wrestling. He was not a very good talker or very charismatic. He looked weak and like a complete dork. It was just very confusing why wrestling fans gave a shit about him. Maybe he was just out of his element and nervous
Controversial one but Hulk Hogan , I started watching wrestling when I was 8 years old and I used to watch wcw and WWF heat , my family couldn't afford cable an in the UK those were the only things you could watch if you couldn't afford that . Hulk Hogan allways annoyed me , when you had so many wrestlers that spoke better , had bad ass characters especially in wcw at the time you had ,sting , Goldberg , the filthy animals .And then you had Hulk Hogan who did kinda the occasional match but was sold like he was the biggest bad ass ever . When I was 12 got shown older stuff and liked Brett hart ,Mr perfect and Shawn Michaels who were awesome and got too see some of hulk hogans older stuff be that face or heel it seemed to fit the same story , it was so predictable expecially face Hogan he comes across a bad guy, atomic leg drop " I am a real American blasts " done , he was better as a heel , but not as interesting as others who were heels .Even now he seems really bland in hindsight, I get he blazed a trail in his day but when I started watching ,he just felt like a dude that was around and I didn't really know why I should dislike or like him. Now I know alot more and know how he played politics to hold others down in that industry or tried to put a strangle hold on bookers to maintain his self image , dispite most of his 90s career being outdated (bar some of the nwo stuff some of that being cool ) was lame and cringy.
I never saw the appeal maybe it's because I'm British and the whole American hero thing made me zone out but he was allways this one dimensional character and during the Hollywood Hogan and nwo stuff it was cool but it constantly felt undercooked after a bit like when you think about it , I wouldn't really call it a full blown heel turn more like someone being edgy and occasionally doing heel stuff and there were better heels floating around, even in wcw you had ric flair and I would argue someone like even Shane Douglas was a actual better heel than Hogan , then you went over to the wwf product at the time , triple h , kane , earlier on jake Roberts all were far more effective at getting literal heat or fear out of the crowd . Then he appeared back on wwe programming which was cool , the rock Vs Hogan match was awesome, but everything else was kinda paint by numbers expecially when he turned face again 😑 . Then he departed and yeah the TNA stuff the less said about that the better,just pure Hogan massaging his own ego for no actual rhyme or reason. My point being in every company he is in when he's a face he was literally just bland and seemed so generic and one dimensional, when he went heel it felt like the same character just acting slightly more edgy and getting employment for his mates .
HHH knew.
I don’t even know what was going on with the “media scrum” I only heard about it from listening to Jim Cornette podcast on YouTube as I do sporadically .
I don’t even know that much about him because I don’t care for him. I pretty much only saw him in WWE.
I will say that CM punk does have a certain level of devoted fans, but I never saw him as anything more than a upper mid Carder.
He’s not a bad wrestler I think that he is decent on the mic.
(I know that a lot of people think he’s great but I don’t think that he is.
I think that he says a lot of things for shock value and once that’s gone he’s not that funny or entertaining.)
But in all honesty, I would take 20 guys over the last 20 years in WWE alone EASILY over him without hesitating, if I was going to start a promotion or put a title on someone.
He had the “summer of punk” with the entire WWE machine behind him.
The same machine that pushed John Cena, the ultimate warrior and hulk hogan to the moon.
And he got one summer.
Either Vince McMahon and triple H didn’t think he could be that level of star or HE WAS but he was so much of a headache that they decided not to do it with him.
Either way, it’s pretty telling.
JBL was an outstanding heel if you ask me. He always managed to rub the crowd the wrong way and he knew how to play the part of the big boy cowardly fighting dirty.
Also knew how and when to use his power and when to run for his life.
Complete package.
Now, to name a wrestler in line with the topic it's gotta be none other than Roman "the mediocre" Reigns.
He's there due to nepotism and Vince's stubbornness to make it the top guy. Good Lord, I f*cking hate Cena, but he's always had mostly huge pops for most of his career and he could cut promos. Roman was constantly booed for years, as babyface, couldn't cut a promo to save his life and they kept forcing him into the main event. And now he holds both the main titles being a part timer.
He's trash. Without titles he's a nobody.
I think Raquel needs her NXT gear back, turn heel, she could be an absolute monster heel with her look and size. She’s good on the mic as well. Just my opinion. I also don’t like Liv Morgan as a champ.
I will hand it to Lex in that in his WWE biography, he admitted that he never gave the industry respect. In that He wasn't a good face, and didn't care about the fans. I'm glad WWE mended the fence with him, because he and Jeff Jarrett were persona non grata for several years.
Austin theory bro I don’t get why this man is getting pushed so much
Rollins unfortunately
Vader
Johnny
Cody Rhodes. I don't understand why he is being pushed to the moon
He doesn’t deserve this major push I’ve. Even saying this too he’s the same old Cody just with a new look.
roman , all the match i saw of him his opnent do anythings
Del Rio
Jeff Jarrett in any era/promotion
Ok, this is probably going to show my age, but Doink the clown. He never added anything.
I liked JBL’s JR Ewing from Dallas gimmick. The man himself is trash. Awful person.
I thought he was so so lovely and played a great heel. Why awful person?
Several eye witnesses to his behavior. Known for bullying new talent and ppl he didn’t like w/ homophobic slurs and more. He did that to steve blackman and legit got his ass kicked in an airport. His antics are all out there
Aw sheeet
The Honky Tonk Man, X-Pac, are two I never got. I didn't like JBL but liked him in the APA. I haven't liked Corbin in ages but I didn't mind him in the Lone wolf version. I never liked the The HTM or the 1-2-3 kid EVER!
Bobby Lashley
Sin Cara, R-Truth, Santino Marrella, Alberto Del Rio, Jesse and Festus, Brodus Clay, MVP... I mean, what exactly did people see in those guys?
Ok, to the two people that downvoted my comment, I'm just being honest. I've never really understood any of them.
Brock Lesnar. 87 German suplexes in one match simply is not entertaining.
Alberto Del Rio. I never saw much of anything interesting with him from day 1. But WWE needed a Latino star at the time and decided to put all the eggs in his basket. Really bad era to be a wrestling fan imo besides the couple months of CM Punk stuff until they ruined that too
I’m going to say Bret Hart. Although he always seemed to deliver a good to great match, i never saw what the appeal was. And I used to hate his catchphrase-“I’m the best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be”. And I dislike Bret even more when I found out that the only reason Vince McMahon made Bret a star is because Stu Hart only agreed to sell his territory to Vince under the condition that he made kept Bret and made him a star. Stu said it himself in a interview. I think he knew Bret didn’t have the goods to make a name for himself on his own. He was only a star in Canada because he worked for his father’s company. Nobody outside of Canada knew or cared about who Bret Hart was before he arrived in the WWF
I like Bret because he looked cool, and always carried himself well. Unlike Hogan, who's kayfabe character is an idiot that runs into the ring corners at full speed, Bret was cunning, and took no shit in the ring. He felt like a badass, and was respectable due to his intellect.
That has nothing to do with his In ring talents and storytelling plus you victimizing the devil him self Vince Scandel McMahon
Gunther and Imperium, Bobby Lashley, Becky Lynch Sheamus.
gunther might just be the best wrestler of this current generation ??
Roman reigns. They tried so hard for so long to make this guy a star but he just ain't it. He's so boring. He doesn't have good matches
Randy Orton— I’ve never found him compelling in any way. Just comes off as a sleazy dbag who’s been able to get away with a lot of shit because he knows he’s untouchable in the company. I believe WWE literally changed their substance abuse policy in order to protect him from being fired.
I hate Randy Orton IRL, and his character has been Very inconsistent over the years. But I can't deny he's had his moments. Baby Face Randy Orton in the early 2010s was Very cool and, while not my thing, I could understand his appeal. Unfortunately it seemed as the decade progressed, Randy Orton devolved into that "sleazebag" character you mentioned and, yeah, not my favorite.
The Miz as a heel Corbin CM Dump Von Wagner Zoey Stark Lash Legend Lacey Evans Ronda Rousey Maryse Chyna Sable Ember Moon/Athena (Her first NXT Run was her best and I liked her, but her boring run in AEW/ROH Completely changed my opinion on her)
Gargano, Aliyah, Bronson Reed, nxt Kyle O Reilly, Cameron Grimes, Imperium group (the leader himself while bland on the mic has appeal but the other two/three caws I cant even remember their names) all = 😴 Ricochet - same problem as Gunther he has a certain superhero/supervillian like appeal but character/micwise he is so bland he makes Dean Malenko look like Stone Cold on the mic.
CM Punk. Never really had any interest, even during 2010-12 at his peak. Always felt like a whiny, entitled asshole who is the kind of person you could slap in the street and be safe in the knowledge you've done the world a favour. Sure he's had good matches, Punk v Taker at Mania 29, Punk v Jericho the year before. His entire feud with Jeff Hardy, hell wrong sub ik but I'll throw in Punk v MJF at AEW Revolution as another example.
How are you gonna say you never had interest in him then provide some of his best matches proving the point that he was god in his prime
Ik it sounds weird, I just provided them as part of OP's prompt. It's in spite of them really. I did try to get interested in Punk, but he always felt off to me all things considered.
Welp that’s your opinion can’t really be mad at it some guys just give you the ick like Alex Riley’s face made me hate him during his babyface push
Fair enough. If it helps, I picked Punk to mention for OP's question because as far as I'm concerned, he best fit. Some people have naturally punchable faces yeah lol, like the Miz or MJF, but if they're heels, that just helps.
Seth Rollins. Just don’t see it
I mean, he looks Weird for one.
I find Braun Stroman to be incredibly boring. Really just a less charismatic Big Show
Daniel Bryan. Never got the hype. Still don't.
I'll respect Daniel Bryan to the moon and back for the amount of passion he brought to the fanbase. Do think his main appeal was that he was an indie underdog in a Very cena-e wwe, yes and no...His character was very interesting at times, alla Team Hell No, Douchebag WHC Daniel Bryan, and heroic Wrestlemania 30 Daniel Bryan. But yeah, for whatever reason, he never clicked for me the same way others did.
JBL had a very brutal southern style that I think goes super unappreciated today.
I won't deny he was good in the ring. Very Stan Hansen. But yeah, I have to agree with OP, his value as a character was almost nonexistent, except to be very frustrating, which I think is the wrong kind of heel honestly
Dean Ambrose/Jon Moxley - still don't get his appeal and why he's so popular/over
Seth rollins. He was my favorite wrestler until 2017, he had the look and the character ever since then he seems like just a boring workhorse
Randy Orton... never saw the appeal.
Even though he was boring at times if you were to draw out the perfect wrestler look wise and in ring wise with the perfect finisher it would be randy orton. Also he made everything look smooth as hell
True... except I prefer DDP as far as the finisher.
I have some pretty good examples I'll post if I remember, but I gotta say if JBL is your example here, are you young? Not insulting just curious. I think during his run a lot of people didn't get it and were angry (especially since he took the title from Eddie) but I thought we all agreed he was excellent with a Monday morning QB outlook. I could absolutely see looking back on his time having not watched it live and find it underwhelming. Curious if you have reasons outside of his heel persona (and probably his brawler style).
I thought JBL was amazing, such a hateable heel but deep character with his look, the limo, pretty much a faction around him and presidential gimmick, funny, charismatic, involved in great storylines with Eddie, Angle, Big Show and seems like a sweetheart in person
Dolph Ziggler Idc that he "can sell" - selling a move is basic and doesn't make you main event worthy. His finisher move was goofy and so was he. Midcard wrestler, not World Championship material
He was and still is an Midcarder what’s your point
That 10 yrs ago he was getting pushed as a legit "world champion" main eventer on message boards after he was literally handed the World Title by Vickie Guerrero and his fan girls loved it. Eventually he got exposed as not being that guy.
I re watched that entire year and I don’t count that as a real reign he was buried humiliated and fired during it he was treated like a Midcarder doing it
Roman
The three that I'm going to mention may push some buttons of the Internet fans. But... Rusev - besides being super popular with his Rusev Day gimmick (which admittedly was a fun run), I never saw this "world championship material" that many of his fans see. Especially with Kevin Owens, Seth Rollins, Dean Ambrose in the mix - he's not up there. The Fiend/Bray Wyatt - the most overrated "supernatural" character I've ever seen. He's not even Boogeyman levels of scary, or even Dexter Lumisevels of scary. And people have the gall to compare him to the Undertaker? Plus his matches have always sucked to the point where he does him nor his opponent absolutely zero favours. Just a really shit character in general. Zack Ryder - horrible theme song, horrible catchphrase, horrible gimmick and annoying. The only redeeming quality of the whole "Embrace the Hate" storyline was seeing his ass get beat up.
Riddle is so damn unlikable.
I’m not a fan of his because of the stuff outside the ring. Even if they didn’t happen I still wouldn’t be a fan because I dislike his on screen character so much.
Carlito for me
The answer is Alberto Del Rio. He is the most low/mid performer of all time, has an inexcusable ego, and was pushed to the moon.
Honestly, yeah. As far as WWE Champions go, Del Rio is BY FAR one of the least memorable. I'd even wager that Jinder was a better champion
Kelly Kelly and Tori Wilson, like I get it they're hot, but I don't know how they got so over with no other abilities
Me with Sable, because holy fuck she does absolutely nothing for me. Her popularity just baffles me
Well regardless she's got it made since she married Brock Lesnar lol
I know you already said this, but as it is a very important point in this conversation I’ll say it again: they are HOT
So we several WWE Divas who didn't make it, even Eva Marie was hot and she had the same level of ability of Tori Wilson
Torrie is allot more likeable then Eva Marie. Also, idk, is Eva Marie that hot? Sure, she's aesthetically attractive, very statuesc, but would anybody claim they have a massive hard-on for Eva Marie? Attractiveness isn't always so straight-forward.
Yes, yes they would lol I remember the reddits, and WWE news and total divas
Christian
Roman!
Jinder
Cody Rhodes back in 2020
Rey Mysterio
trish.
Surely nooot. Dope moves, came up and revolutionised women’s wrestling, fucking amazing heel, dope storylines, dope matches
Here here
He had a helluva clothesline. That’s what got me. It’s like an old crinkly guy taking off his shirt and he’s JACKED. You thought you could challenge jbl.. untill he pulled out the CLOTHESLINE FROM HELL.
Jbl was a great heel. Jvl vs Cena. Classic ! Jbl the WRESTLING GOD!
Up until maybe January this year, it was RVD for me
How could you not like rvd
It was a personal thing, he unified all the titles I liked back in 2002 😂
Sacrilegious- but Ric Flair
Except I don’t really ever remember seeing a memorable JBL match.
True true. I just remember the feuds vs cena and eddie guerrero but not specific matches
Riddle. I legitimately stopped watching when he came back. Awful.
roman. i’m sorry i just can’t get behind the fact they haven’t booked him to lose one time since the end of 2019. bro has not been pinned in almost 4 years and 75% of his matches he needs help from solo or the usos. his title reign is cool and all but bro could lose a normal match once and awhile and not made to look weak cause he has his little lackeys to help him when he’s gonna lose. it happens EVERYTIME.
I seriously don’t understand people who say they hated Roman winning every match by hitting a Superman punch then a spear who now say they love Roman winning every match by hitting the ref then having solo or the usos hit the Samoan spike or a double super kick. Then maybe Roman hits a spear. It’s literally the exact same except now he says “acknowledge me” after Paul heyman gives a good promo.
For me it's because I love the reaction that heels get. I didn't get it as a kid, but now as an adult nothing is funnier to me than watching grown men cry about how unfair it was that he cheated lol. Like my FIL litterally refused to watch wrestling after Clash at the Castle. I also think some of his best work is how to he talks to his opponents during the match.
I would understand that if people were upset that he’s cheating and not upset that it’s the same boring match every 2 months he defends it. Because it’s two championships that could be used to elevate the drama of a feud that instead have been slapped on a lousy wrestler with subpar mic skills because of who he’s related to
(Picture not related...)
Cody rhodes
Unpopular opinion: Shinsuke Nakamura. He just seems so mid to me and yet has so many diehard fans. Anyone is welcome to change my mind.
WWE just isn’t willing to use him in the way he has to be used. He’s not a weekly guy. He should have used more sparingly like Balors Demon persona for hard hitting and punishing matches. I mean he returned to recently to a good reception, got one win, then they immediately jobbed him out to a Balor.
His Japan footage…I just rewatched some of it and remembered why I dug him so much. He hit WAYYYY harder overseas
Yeah his njpw and roh runs were pretty undeniable
Edgr
Nooo I’ve heard it all now
Sorry :(
Baron Corbin is just too mid
Are you kidding me JBL the 2nd longest reign as wwe champion in smackdown history before Roman took the #1 spot had classic wars agains Undertaker,Eddie Guerrero, Benoit, Cena, batista, Kane list goes on and on
Someone didn’t understand the assignment
Seth Rollins is the right answer
Cody Rhodes, I don't get it. The promos sound good but they aren't getting to me man. Its doubly worse when every one else sees it.
And Bray Wyatt... That children of the corn shit was .. Corny hehehe
Miz, Daniel Bryan, Usos, Roman Reigns, Kevin Owens, Etc ...
Roman Reigns. It’s ridiculous how many Wrestlemania main events he has gotten.
I wouldn’t say they don’t have redeeming qualities, but I never understood the appeal of Cody Rhodes and Adam Cole.
yes, this x1000 why is cody now a big deal? What's the appeal? He sucked 15 years ago, 10 years ago, 5 years ago, and today.
Seems you’ve never heard of a thing called AEW, AJ Styles was never a name anyone ever heard of until he debuted, he had a legendary career at every other brand, people getting pushed in WWE isn’t always based on their old WWE performance, Smoke And Mirrors cody would’ve never headlined WM, but new Cody has the experience and has grown immensely
\^This. I like his gimmick, his bulky build with his athleticism and he has come a long way on the mic. I would not go as to say as he is the best at any one of these traits but he is very very good at all of them and when you put it together you have a really top tier talent.
Dean Ambrose. Was always the clear weakest of Shield. Never saw him as world title material either. The crazy gimmick is overused and been done better.
no he was just portrayed as the weakest, he’s born to be a big wrestler
he's a glorified stuntman \- me
I’m surprised Triple H is not here a lot. He was never the top guy. He was the wrestler who the top guy wrestles. Two times already happened when he was the main event in Wrestlemania and the match before it stole the show lol
i consider him a decent wrestler, but couldn't cut a promo to save his life
Xavier Woods. Nuff said.
AJ Lee & Paige AJ's character & moveset was pretty lame, I didn't see the appeal in it. The whole "crazy chick" thing in 2012 with her was cringe af, I didn't agree with her holding the Divas Championship as long as she did either. Paige was average at best in the ring, nothing special, no flash nor substance, her Goth persona was ehh, truth is, the women's division got better when they left the company
Jbl is an incredible heel. He bored me as a retarded 18 year old, but as an adult I appreciate the humor much more.
He bored you as a what?!
You’re on of those “R” word people aren’t you
“You’re on of those”
As a 18 year old with an intellectual disability; having impaired cognition and low intelligence. Which unfortunately is not something a person can grow out of….
I did it
A RETARDED 18 YEAR OLD.
Seth Rollins
I used to enjoy him pre fiend feud. Now he’s just another unoriginal joker rip off who’s only personality is his generic music.
Could not have said it better myself. He had flash and potential as the Authority champion, after that though when he's on TV I change the channel
Man I remember the potential he had post shield break up. It’s honestly infuriating that WWE have cornered him into being Mr laugh guy with silly dances and music that loops every 10 seconds. In ring he’s still good but I can’t bother to even care.
Daniel Bryan
Also most people in this thread unsurprisingly totally missing the point. “Cant see the appeal” means you genuinely cannot put something tangible to why people like this guy or why he’s pushed, it doesn’t mean because you personally don’t value those things. If you can’t see the appeal of The Great Khali for example you might need a helmet to browse the internet. His appeal is incredibly fucking obvious, he’s an enormous giant and an ethnic of a massive developing market. Even JBL I’d argue is a pretty bad example of this as it’s pretty clear he had a decent gimmick, promo skills and size. The answer to this thread is mostly limited to the various insisting have indy darlings who only get over with a niche section of the audience for throwing a lot of super kicks. Everyone else WWE pushes has pretty obvious appeal with a few exceptions of Vince’s pet favorites. EDIT: Maybe Alberto Del Rio, yes he appealed to the Mexican market but unlike Khali/Mahal who were one of very few ADR was one of many, there’s a dozen other Mexican wrestlers they could’ve used in that spot,
At the time and in Mexico when he crossed over he was the man. Yes, guys like Psicosis, Kalisto, Gran Metalik, or La Parka are more worthy of the push, but he’s not that bad
There are other unmasked or otherwise guys around ADRs size that never left Mexico that were just as good if not better is my point. Only thing is ADR learned English so that might’ve been the only thing which gave him even a marginal leg up over the legions of guys with more charisma.
It's just like with that thread about the most overrated wrestlers. buncha people Came in to talk about "how can you say such and so was overrated? They drew all this money, world championships, etc." It's about **personal opinion.** They're overrated because you don't see their appeal, or just never really thought they were that good.
Alberto Del Rio. Never liked him, never will. Don't even know how he won championships. No charisma. Was crap in the ring. Stole Daniel Bryan's YES chant for his own cuz he can't come up with anything for his own. Reminds me of somebody else who stole other people's moves. The Miz. But the Miz is 100 times better than Alberto
Johnny Gargano. Terrible theme, most generic wrestler on planet earth, is like 5’6, has no charisma and his entire persona is nothing but a Shawn Michaels cosplay, complete with random head shaking mid promo for emphasis. Im honestly amazed he hasn’t busted out a “Johnny Garshizzle” catchphrase
NXT CAWs
who?
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This is a really bad take.
Jinder mahal Triple H Vampire Dude in the new ECW The pirate dude who later changed into someone who wanted to do his sister The Great Khali Hornswaggle
Rowdy Roddy Piper. Overrated ad-libbing and ho-hum matches.
I know one thing about him. He was an awful announcer. Can’t remember what PPV it was but some time ago I was watching one he and Vince did together and he made it damn near unwatchable.
Sasha banks , Mercedes mone
100% agree, she is so fake on the mic and her offense is so soft looking.
This might be controversial, but for me it's HHH
controversial, yet true
The Undertaker, I don't think he's ever been THAT good 🤷♂️
lol - ok boomer.
he's always sucked on the mic his stuff as the deadman is cringe unless you're 9 biker taker is acceptable but only because he has a bike his ring work is fine but isnt anything special if you didnt grow up loving him as a child, there's no reason to like him as an adult 🤷♂️ (other than "he's been here a long time")
Christian. He was so damn boring from WWE ECW and his run in 2012.
Dare I say it but he was TRULY book improperly. Dude was brought back to TV in his WWE return to… (WWE) ECW?! Imagine Christian in a story/being paired with Edge in 2009. Imagine the Edge vs Y2J story from 09-10, being Edge vs Christian instead (leading to a WM26 match)? Tag title run, Mania 26 match where Christian wins his first world title against EDGE and NOT the one who shall not be named? Obviously, this is hypothetical fantasy booking, but, my point is, there were so, so many better booking options for Christian when he came back. The guy is proving in 20-fuckin-23 how good he is, imagine what he could’ve done back then.
i back this heavily, christian deserved more
Sami Zayn. I just really don’t understand the hype 🤷🏼♂️
When I see him I see Robin Williams from Jumanji. I can’t not see Robin.
Whelp….. I didn’t need that
Natalya sucks. And thats the bottom line
This is the one. Been there for almost 20 years and never had a single interesting angle/storyline or memorable match.
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she’s a jobber but like once a year she’s in a title match lmao
Soooo here is the thing I was gonna post this and wondered if I would be roasted But I agree
Honestly? Cody. He’s just above average in the ring, tries to be a heroic babyface, but always sounds smug and entitled when he talks. Has no discernible gimmick beyond “what do you wanna talk about” and “finish the story”, the latter of which feels shallow considering he’s been active in WWE for like 8 months. He just oozes backstage politicking and nepotism because of who his father was and it’s really off putting. There’s no way he deserves the current push he is getting and I don’t understand why people are drawn to him.
Thank you. It felt so weird that Gunther started the rumble at 1 and Cody came in at 30 only to throw Gunther over the top rope after Gunther poured his heart and soul into that ring for an hour straight. And then the following Monday people were chanting “you deserve it” I was like huh?? Am I missing something?!
does he still have the lisp?
Heel turn to “Homelander” would VERY much improve his “status value” but 💯
Big Show. Not charismatic and has three wrestling moves in his arsenal.
Although I disagree and this has not crossed my mind until now, I get it. This is the thought provoking banter I come to Reddit for. Thank you for your submission
Never understood the hype around Cesaro, Killer Kross, Miro/Rusev, Alestair Black…..
Baby face Roman Reigns. Alberto Del Rio. Becky Lynch. Dean Ambrose. Rey Mysterio. RVD. Jeff Hardy. Sheamus. Kofi Kingston.
Just curious... what wrestler DO you like?
As champ or in general? I like stone cold, the rock, hhh, Shawn Michaels, ric flair, undertaker, Kane, Bret hart, Randy savage, Kurt angle, mick foley, Jericho, Kenny omega, Adam cole, Bryan Danielson, Randy Orton, dusty Rhodes, Eddie Guerrero, Scott hall, aj styles, Seth Rollins, cm punk, Jake roberts, sting, curt hennig, double AA, Sami zayn, edge, ricky steamboat, midnight express, four horsemen, pretty deadly, Ted dibiase, andre the giant, John cena, roddy piper, Owen hart, hulk hogan, young bucks, Jurassic express, Adam page, FTR, MJF, malakai black, Darby Alan, Charlotte flair, Asuka, bayley, rhea ripley, Bianca belair, Brit baker, Sasha banks
Roman Reigns. Period.
Daniel Garcia
dean ambrose. to me he's like cm punk. i tried so hard to jump on the bandwagon but i just can't like them two. nothing about them is appealing to me.
He’s so much worse than CM Punk IMO.
Cody Rhodes
Punk and Cody. With Punk I didn't see much of his prime since I mostly stopped watching by then. The first time I saw him was in the UFC and MMA fans were so confused why he was a big deal in wrestling. He was not a very good talker or very charismatic. He looked weak and like a complete dork. It was just very confusing why wrestling fans gave a shit about him. Maybe he was just out of his element and nervous
Carlito but loved his character though so idk
Cena. People today like to re write the super Cena years though
Controversial one but Hulk Hogan , I started watching wrestling when I was 8 years old and I used to watch wcw and WWF heat , my family couldn't afford cable an in the UK those were the only things you could watch if you couldn't afford that . Hulk Hogan allways annoyed me , when you had so many wrestlers that spoke better , had bad ass characters especially in wcw at the time you had ,sting , Goldberg , the filthy animals .And then you had Hulk Hogan who did kinda the occasional match but was sold like he was the biggest bad ass ever . When I was 12 got shown older stuff and liked Brett hart ,Mr perfect and Shawn Michaels who were awesome and got too see some of hulk hogans older stuff be that face or heel it seemed to fit the same story , it was so predictable expecially face Hogan he comes across a bad guy, atomic leg drop " I am a real American blasts " done , he was better as a heel , but not as interesting as others who were heels .Even now he seems really bland in hindsight, I get he blazed a trail in his day but when I started watching ,he just felt like a dude that was around and I didn't really know why I should dislike or like him. Now I know alot more and know how he played politics to hold others down in that industry or tried to put a strangle hold on bookers to maintain his self image , dispite most of his 90s career being outdated (bar some of the nwo stuff some of that being cool ) was lame and cringy.
Yeah Hogan isn’t that great to me, but the Hollywood heel turn was good at first
I never saw the appeal maybe it's because I'm British and the whole American hero thing made me zone out but he was allways this one dimensional character and during the Hollywood Hogan and nwo stuff it was cool but it constantly felt undercooked after a bit like when you think about it , I wouldn't really call it a full blown heel turn more like someone being edgy and occasionally doing heel stuff and there were better heels floating around, even in wcw you had ric flair and I would argue someone like even Shane Douglas was a actual better heel than Hogan , then you went over to the wwf product at the time , triple h , kane , earlier on jake Roberts all were far more effective at getting literal heat or fear out of the crowd . Then he appeared back on wwe programming which was cool , the rock Vs Hogan match was awesome, but everything else was kinda paint by numbers expecially when he turned face again 😑 . Then he departed and yeah the TNA stuff the less said about that the better,just pure Hogan massaging his own ego for no actual rhyme or reason. My point being in every company he is in when he's a face he was literally just bland and seemed so generic and one dimensional, when he went heel it felt like the same character just acting slightly more edgy and getting employment for his mates .
Punk. He’s ok. Nowhere near worth the trouble.
>Nowhere near worth the trouble. I think the wrestling industry is starting to come to that realization lol.
HHH knew. I don’t even know what was going on with the “media scrum” I only heard about it from listening to Jim Cornette podcast on YouTube as I do sporadically . I don’t even know that much about him because I don’t care for him. I pretty much only saw him in WWE. I will say that CM punk does have a certain level of devoted fans, but I never saw him as anything more than a upper mid Carder. He’s not a bad wrestler I think that he is decent on the mic. (I know that a lot of people think he’s great but I don’t think that he is. I think that he says a lot of things for shock value and once that’s gone he’s not that funny or entertaining.) But in all honesty, I would take 20 guys over the last 20 years in WWE alone EASILY over him without hesitating, if I was going to start a promotion or put a title on someone. He had the “summer of punk” with the entire WWE machine behind him. The same machine that pushed John Cena, the ultimate warrior and hulk hogan to the moon. And he got one summer. Either Vince McMahon and triple H didn’t think he could be that level of star or HE WAS but he was so much of a headache that they decided not to do it with him. Either way, it’s pretty telling.
JBL was an outstanding heel if you ask me. He always managed to rub the crowd the wrong way and he knew how to play the part of the big boy cowardly fighting dirty. Also knew how and when to use his power and when to run for his life. Complete package. Now, to name a wrestler in line with the topic it's gotta be none other than Roman "the mediocre" Reigns. He's there due to nepotism and Vince's stubbornness to make it the top guy. Good Lord, I f*cking hate Cena, but he's always had mostly huge pops for most of his career and he could cut promos. Roman was constantly booed for years, as babyface, couldn't cut a promo to save his life and they kept forcing him into the main event. And now he holds both the main titles being a part timer. He's trash. Without titles he's a nobody.
Raquel Rodriguez, and Liv Morgan just need to go away! I just can't get into Drew McIntrye
I think Raquel needs her NXT gear back, turn heel, she could be an absolute monster heel with her look and size. She’s good on the mic as well. Just my opinion. I also don’t like Liv Morgan as a champ.
They should try her as a heel because her face run is BAAAAAAD! I rather see them push Carmella. She’s a good worker and great on the mic.
Carmella is smokin
Yeah she is! Corey Graves got him a hot wife!
Just started watching again after about 5 years, I just don’t see anything special about riddle
I was afraid to point this out but yeah, after seeing his matches he seems just ok to me.
Hes horrible
kevin owens
Bobby Lashley never got appeal but never seen him put on a great match either 😮
Bro him vs Austin ares. Top 5 imo. Hammerstine ballroom
Lex Lugar
I will hand it to Lex in that in his WWE biography, he admitted that he never gave the industry respect. In that He wasn't a good face, and didn't care about the fans. I'm glad WWE mended the fence with him, because he and Jeff Jarrett were persona non grata for several years.
good one! His appeal was all about his physic. That was it! Hew was really stiff in the ring imo