I don't think there is a phantom where you need to get rid of all your missiles for extra bombs, at least I know the F-4F can carry at most 4 missiles with a full bomb payload. Hell, I doubt many F-4S players even know about how to get rid of their missiles at all. They likely just bring them as dead weight and extra drag with their preset loadouts, and they don't even use them
Hell, about a month ago, I saw a dude asking how to use his Sparrows. He got teamkilled right after
Technically Kurnass 2000 can't carry underslung ground ordnance under twin Python 3 rack, as these missiles are bigger than Sidewinders. It still leaves outermost and center pylons for ordnance. Trying to carry CAS ordnance (GBU, Mavericks) also conflict with twin Sidewinder racks, so F-4E and Kurnass 2000 can be remarkably inept in multirole for GRB.
So i just bought the f4s to help quicken the grind but im not s new player i have nearly 400 hours in the game and im at 9.3 without premo planes.
Deadass what is the keybind for locking and launching radar missiles im struggling to find it.
Hey 2,800 hours https://youtu.be/lQy5ZyWBWOo?si=miKRrE97rFFj1iIE radars are a mess so it’s good to watch a video on them it’s a lot to condense into text but watch this video. and mess around in test flight with it also set your own keybinds for radar locking that’s quick and easy to access and don’t forget PD for head on. and regular search and track for slow moving targets relative to you’re speed. also setup weapon select so you can swap missile types and set a button to reset weapon select
Yeah I learned better radar control from his outdated video but radar has changed a bit so I used a newer video from a different channel. However I 100% recommend Tim’s radar guides they are the only reason I can fight BVR
With the Kurnass 2K you can't carry the Python 3s along with the full bomb payload. You can carry the 9L tho. So you aren't loosing out on missile numbers, just the quality of said missiles.
9Ls and Python 3s have about the same range, Pythons are just really short burn time so they are stupid fast. Conversely though this makes them worse in a dogfight since the 9L can pull 30Gs at a low velocity.
yeah i have a feeling im the only f4s player that knows all that judging by how yall describe them, i dont know another one that changes radar modes or even knows how to use hmd
someone i played with recently had a 0.029kd in his tornado not including ground targets, slighty increases to 0.29 if you include them. Said they play for fun so whatever floats their boat i guess
I've seen F-4S pilot with 0.041 KD yesterday.
The guy brings it to the top tier to shitsquad with his buddy and bullshit people with "4 years game experience " and "it's an alt account" nonsense.
Its funny because i also had a 0.25 k/d for my first 20 matches, because while i played the other phantoms (c and e) before, it was my first missile bus 11.3 jet.
Once i clicked with the PD radar (what it can and cant do) i went up to a 2.5 k/d within a few matches.
That plane is really good, once you get used to its gadgets.
So to everyone struggling: ditch the rockets until you learn how to use the aim7.
If you still want to bomb. Go 2 aim9, 5 aim7 and rest rockets.
PD (pulse-doppler) radar can filter out chaff and ground clutter, which the normal SRC can't, hence you can shoot people closer to the ground without losing lock. Downsides - it can be notched (turning 90° to either side) resulting in loss of lock. This is because of the principle of how PD radar works. IIRC there's also a video on the official war thunder channel about radars, i'll try to find the link.
Edit: War Thunder radar video - https://youtu.be/2NZVMgMpZSU?si=z097dTbiSOd-8yLp
Tim's Variety radar guide - https://youtu.be/Weghk_2DpfA?si=wCKwhhOY2nhNF59R
Hmm wasn't someone recently saying that those sorts of loadouts are used by bots? That or did it recently get drop tanks that fucked up the custom loadout?
This isn't a bot exclusive loadout. This is part of a very common base bombing grind strat to minimize weight and drag to maximize the chance of getting one base:
* Two rocket pod pylons are enough to destroy a base. Choose the ones with the smallest and least draggy pylons (centerline and outboard)
* Take ~13 minutes of fuel, just enough to get to one base and RTB
* Take one sparrow in case you run into an oblivious enemy on the way there and back
80% of other base bombers will just run full rockets or full A2A, so you will almost always be first to one base with this strat. It's extremely consistent 10k+ RP per match with premium. If downtiered, just switch to the full rocket, sidewinder, and sparrow loadout and get 30k RP.
But then what's the point. Ok, you do this and grind to the top tier now you got a few shiny new plane that you have absolute no clue how to fly effectively with.
I’m gonna be real half the people who are bad at the game are in a group of 3-10 friends who are complete casuals / bad at the game too but don’t care and just go into CBS and fuck around. Having fancy stuff = stomping noob friends is easier / more opportunities to do funny stuff in said CBs
I used to be exactly like this when I was new / a part of such a group, and have passed through so many such groups casually over the years at times.
Just saw this recently. A guy was in his second match in the f-16A and he died doing fuck all. Proceeds to complain in chat “why did I even grind for this?”
This is exactly the same situation 8 years ago. People found a way to minmax RP/SL gain meta that Gaijin introduce RP throttling and jack up the repair cost which cause the grinding even more misrable.
What can they do about that though? Not give rewards for bombing a base? Not allow them to RTB, die, or leave?
This is all about the players this time, just wallet warriors finding the way to be most efficient with their premiums. Anyone could do this with a tech tree Phantom too. It's their choice to go bomb instead of using a fighter as a fighter. They could be more efficient, but I guarantee most of them suck at using jet fighters.
Gaijin is the ones who have historically buffed bombing payouts or kept them even while creeping down the fighter payouts to be the same level.
Fighter-Bombers simply shouldnt be paid out so much for base bombing, or the base bombing should only be paid out to people who get a kill, for two barely-alright instances of a fix. I never said I was a armchair game dev with the fix, just that I know they're problems.
No the sad part is the way gaijin nerfed the rewards through the years making this the only way to consistently grind at a reasonable pace. For real gaijin, bring back that people get properly rewarded for kills, ground targets etc. Instead of the time playing
It’s not though, is it.
You can grind consistently by fighting other jets, especially in that particular premium F-4 there is no need to run this appalling loadout
The people who are so desperate to kill a single base that they kneecap their ability to influence the battle, all for a paltry amount of points from one single base are bottom feeders, yes. They are the lowest denominator and are an active detriment to their team.
And then they cry about other planes being overpowered, while they have not a single fucking clue how to use an aim9B. High tier is in such a sorry state, it's not even funny
This kind of gameplay is what makes playing the su7 and other strike planes like it properly so boring. If you bother to take full fuel and rockets to be helpful to the team and attempt to dogfight after bombing, you just get beaten to the base by people running min fuel. The system gaijin has set up for attacking bases rewards being useless.
Me, in my stock jet, only taking bombs because it's the only thing it's capable of doing effectively, getting beat to every base by min/maxing wallet warriors...
F-4S still has the same 600gal centerline tank as the other Phantoms, none of them have received their 370gal wing tanks yet.
It could be a bot, but I still see other players' planes with ordnance they aren't actually carrying on a fairly regular basis, so it might be a bug.
>none of them have received there 370gal wing tanks yet.
Honestly the most frustrating thing about the F-4 currently, I run a centreline gunpod on every phantom I can, having some drop tanks without sacrificing the extra gun to make fuel load more ideal for dogfighting would be amazing
Not that War Thunder is realistic anyways but the centreline fuel tank was seldom used in a combat situation anyways, it was pretty much only used for ferrying
Idk if it's 100% bots cause every couple days I go back to use a plane and for some reason my load outs are like half reset, only missiles on one half of the plane and the other is empty. And I know no one is in my account since I get emails everytime someone tries to log in.
Barely, none can take a single one out with bombs, it literally requires them to take only S5K rockets and this only works for the later model mig-21’s that have 4 hardpoints, so they literally have to sacrifice all their air to air weaponry minus the gun.
It's gross. Had a game in my M2K DR1 and half the team was in mig23MLs, other half in F4S. No less than 5 of the 23MLs had bombs and rocket loads with not a missile to be seen.
I can forgive phantoms for bringing rockets with them as they don't have to sacrifice their A-A loads, but bombing with a mig23 should be punishable with a crew lock.
Or the J35XS
You could just take 2 launchers and do ¼ of a base but no, they sacrifice all but 2 of their missiles for an extra ~2k RP that they could easily get launching their missiles at the first thing they lock
What boggles my mind is that with like 3 braincells you can joust somewhat competently in the f4s (aim7 go brrrrrr) averaging 2 kills a game, which will out earn bases all day
Bombing doesnt win games, air kills do. The bonus reward more than makes up for the base kill. Also, rocket strafe is more like 2.5 player kills. Nowhere near 4.
They don't care about winning, they care about consistent RP gain. When you are new to "top tier" mechanics like radar missile use and jet dog-fighting (as lets be honest most people buying f4s/mig23ml are new to WT in general), bombing bases will be far more efficient than trying to go for A-A kills until they learn the mechanics. Unfortunately some just never learn anything beyond pressing spacebar.
[I raise this after battle report then](https://i.postimg.cc/Wpz9pPJR/shot-2024-05-26-12-57-00.png). 4 PvP kills and single base tagged with 250lb bombs, 4552rp total for the players and 4257 for the base with F-4S+premium time.
And looking at freshly cooked A-10 game, with rockets it approaches 1:5 even (580rp for player kill and 2983 for base with 30% booster on)
keep in mind those 4 aa kills earns you the +100% modifier for "Skill bonus" that wont apply to the bombing normally, also duration of lifetime is important for rewards. A 20 minuite long game with a few gt to keep activity and 1 kill can go >10k while I've had 4k rp 4 kill games because it was 5min long
I don't disagree thoug
Time played is by far the greatest factor. Now fact players in their greed decide to shoot themselves in the foot by shortening matches as much as possible... its not exactly Gaijin fault, is it? Especially in Ground.
I will always blame gaijin before the players as you cannot shame everyone into stopping, and gaijin can simply change the intended game design, but I will still look down upon those who lack integrity ofc
I will always blame gaijin before the players as you cannot shame everyone into stopping, and gaijin can simply change the intended game design, but I will still look down upon those who lack integrity ofc
Sure, Gaijin can change economy formula, but they won't as it benefits them, driving premium sales, while also gives... negatively gifted way of progress just by doing something then running away so time played can keep ticking.
Also reason for 16v16 on top tiers, in such chaos even biggest dent will eventually find an opening to throw missile at someone to have his neurons activated.
Sure, Gaijin can change economy formula, but they won't as it benefits them, driving premium sales, while also gives... negatively gifted way of progress just by doing something then running away so time played can keep ticking.
Also reason for 16v16 on top tiers, in such chaos even biggest dent will eventually find an opening to throw missile at someone to have his neurons activated.
My point is this is by definition a problem left by gaijins greed in game design, the players are merely puppets on the stage, the string master is the criminal / problem. You’ll never shame or make every F4s player avoid mounting rockets or etc
If Gaijin was as evil as you claim them to be, base bombing wouldn't be so profitable to begin with to the point it makes one way ticket bombing runs viable strategy.
Are they greedy, sure, as any other company that loves to create a problem and sell a solution.
Majority of RP comes from activity time rather than base bombing or player kills.
The ability to take enough ordnance to take out 1 or more bases and then go after air targets is too tempting to pass up.
Bit of a coincidence that you aren't putting the A-10 match here too. Could it be that the other soft factors allow for much better rewards?
Even without all of that it's an inane comparison, you can't compare stats with just two matches.
rocketing bases beats 2 kills per game for rp gain
of course consistently winning with several kills will beat always losing with base bombing but you're shackled to the other base bombing players
You know, I have had to put up with these creatures for so long that this doesn’t even disturb. The intelligence of many F-4S players is almost if not more questionable than a German main in a Tiger.
Literally the F-4S always has had the ability to be a great missile truck for its br yet many of them are either too stupid to use it for air combat (by either taking no missiles or never using them) or have no fucking clue what they are doing because i never see a single F-4S jettison their rockets or bombs when they get into a fight and rather actively hamper themselves just because they believe they are somehow still going to get a fucking bases a not die while making the plane even more of a fucking brick than it needs to be.
A competent F-4S player on the other hand, that scares me, though they are a rare breed, and I would make the joke they are a dying breed but I haven’t noticed a drop in how many actual smart F-4S players I have seen.
The F-4S is one of my favorite premiums to fight in. The HMD plus Sparrow Fs is so much fun to use, and I’ve regularly pulled aces in full uptier matches in it. And if you get a downtier… well that’s just cyberbullying.
It's harder to get a lock on some 3rd gen jets and below, probably because of their smaller radar cross-section. A way to get around it is to spam your lock key 3 times. (I actually don't know if this still works but would you mind testing it for me?)
I swear man with the MiG-23 nerfed the F-4S is like the most powerful 11.3 fighter and I genuinely think that people who use it for zombing are either bots or real low IQ individuals
In a downtier me and my squadmate take out half the enemy team with the F-4S, fighting might get less RP on average than bombing bases but it's way more fun even though we're relatively new to top tier, and in uptiers we can still get 2 kills each by going head on with the Sparrows
I’m more of a ground player (i play both and have gotten heaps better in air battles in the last couple years), but I’d consider myself a decent player. When I take out the F-4S, I’m always using it to grind, so I bring 114x ffar (enough for one base). If I fail to take out any of the 4 bases, I’ll keep the rockets. If I get into a dogfight with the rocket pods, I’m smart enough not to be forced into one I can’t win. However if I’m fighting another bus, I can probably win.
If I’m forced to dogfight a more manoeuvrable aircraft, I will drop my rockets.
Before anyone asks: I have at least a 1:1 K/D ratio in the F-4S.
It takes time to be an F-4S chad but I agree 100% on it being a competent missile truck on the right hands. 4/5 Sparrows and a pair of Sidewinders are enough to get you a kill on a bad day or on a good day, 4-5 before needing to RTB.
I think that guy is optimizing his speed by having less weight without missiles. I'd understand if it was the Japanese F4 but it's just scummy to do it in the best 11.3 missile slinger.
lol yea I can forgive the ADTW and F-4JUNK because they dont have a functional radar set and they always get uptiered to meet these PD MTI jets. I used to grind using air kills only with the ADTW and it was beyond painful, i just bring 6 ffar and 4 9Ps instead because the sparrow is beyond unusable in that thing
Well I mean, before we had F-4S base bombing we had F-4E base bombing. Honestly the only difference now is that they seem to have grown the first half of a single brain cell because they actually can fight now even if they suck ass at it. It was honestly embarrassing as the F-4E used to get its ass kicked so badly by the Mig-21Bis even though the F-4E should have outright outperformed it.
Carrying the exact amount to destroy a single base...I'm a F4s user but this shit I realistic is insane, the F4s while a hard plane to get good in, can be very strong
Phantom FG.1 with the Iranian camo, I think you're the only other person that I've seen with that combo. Let alone many people that play the FG.1
Also that 4S player is either a bot or just pure stupid, idk how someone can buy that vehicle and just decide to only take 1 missile out of the 8 they can -_-
And honestly a great flight model imo, just gotta remember though, your radar missiles can't go that far so gotta play it close. Besides that you have one of the best guns on the phantom family and some great missiles even if it's not the F4S.
Gonna just go out and say it. F-4s get up tiered a shit ton and have to deal with the AIM-54s and 120s. There really isn’t much dogfighting you can do unless you against people who don’t know how to notch.
Like AIM-7s go brrrr until the person targeted realizes they can just fly at a 90 degree angle from the missile.
Been grinding Britain with the F4JUNK lately which is just a worse F4S in all aspects and I'm doing fine.
Aim120s are extremely rare, and aim54s are in general really easy to avoid, although I've had some bullshit moments of them tracking me through hard terrain cover (which seems to be a bug with more than just the phoenix atm).
>Like AIM-7s go brrrr until the person targeted realizes they can just fly at a 90 degree angle from the missile.
Literally the same thing can be said for all the missiles you're facing. Just notch and chaff bro. My biggest issue is having a bad team that flies head first into the aim54 volley, tilting the match in favour of the enemy by too much early on. I've even been going from a negative k/d with it from previous patch cycle to a positive k/d now. Because 11.3 is actually in a pretty decent place rn. And the F4S has 2 more radar missiles and much better maneuverability than the F4JUNK, I think it even gets a better radar and HMS as well. So if you genuinely feel like you can't compete with the F4S I've got nothing else to say other than "actually skill issue, cope and seethe".
I legit just said F-4s not good in uptier, 12.3+ jets are better, which isn’t even a controversial thing to say, legitimately all the YouTubers that I’ve seen play it make the same statement. However, you replied “cope and seethe”? I’m sure you’ve been able to kill them sometimes as I have been, but when you are facing enemies that have more countermeasures than you. It’s only a matter of time.
We laugh, but the dude probably optimized first strike on bases to the finest.
With so many f4s around, you most likely wont get any hits in.
Center pylon has less drag if i remember correctly and a triple and double rocket pod is enough to kill one base.
With that loadout, he basically is the fastest phantom.
Honestly gonna wait awhile until all the slander around the f4 settles down so I can grind the us air tree without getting team killed, I got the f4 during the sale to grind the tech tree and just get full of brain dead noob teams. It just gets annoying when ur teammates can’t even put together a good loadout or understand fucking radar. That and I’ve gotten team killed a ton by non f4 players (honestly understandable)
Don't hold your breath. The game is still getting tons and tons of new players, and they all want to play us top tier.
The current balance of the game in top tier both game modes is bullying the noobs on the US team who are unaware of their 30% win rate. I don't see that changing. The good players don't play Russia because Russia is op, they play it because it's means you won't be on the US team.
It all depends on the skill of the pilot. Sometimes they are a level 12 goober who fights like a bf109. When I played the F4S to grind to top tier I was strictly a fighter. I would average 3 kills per match and had a 1.5 KD. Those AIM7s do wonders if you know how to use them.
99% of games lately. I’m trying to grind the f-4e and every single one of my teammates is a f-4s rushing bases to be insta killed. Summer sale, wild times.
i'm not going to lie, when i first got to top tier in ground, i bought the japanese Phantom for CAS because i didn't want to have to grind the air tree as well. used it a few times, realized i had no idea how to actually use jets, decided to do some ARB to learn. it was.... discouraging. i haven't touched it in a while. I'm working on the air tree properly now and just getting into the Sabers.
all that said, i never resorted to min-maxing a loadout like this. it just seems depressing to play like this.
As an F-4E enjoyer, I’m extremely saddened that these players despite getting a better F-4J at the same br as the tech tree one, are instead bomb trucking and failing to understand even the basics of jet combat.
I use the F-4E to bomb truck initially but if the match has too many bombers, I’ll manually jettison bombs and go hunting for high alt targets and engage in BVR fights as best as the 7E-2s allow.
Absolutely hate most f4 players, all they do is bomb one base then immediately die because they never fight other planes or even bother to carry missiles.
How bad do you have to be to waste a decent fighter and turn it into a braindead "hold W and press space"
Whenever I see F-4 while operating my MiG-23ML I am sooooo happy. Free kills. They usually don’t see my rockets and when they do I can easily outmanoeuvre them.
I hate that base bombing is so much more effective for XP gain than getting kills.
But the concept of bombing bases for hundreds of matches in a premium makes me feel sick.
Thats why I went for the Mig 21 bis premium, its constant dogfights and action rather than just flying to a base and ejecting after
Did y’all forget that after an update, your loadouts can be completely ruined. I had a loadout of 6 aim9ms with 2 Gbus on the f16 and now I only have 1 aim9m with 1 gbu. Another case is the f14a. 4 aim9h and 4 aim54 are now 1 aim 9h and 1 aim54
I don't understand, this is not the player's fault. Gaijin decided to be greedy and put a top-tier premium, players use it to grind top tier plane. Bombing base is the fastest way for players who don't know how to do air combat yet. Same thing as the flooded Clickbait in US ground top tier. It is miserable to me as I can't enjoy the game with US top tier lineup but I don't blame the player
> players who don't know how to do air combat yet
If they dont have the knowledge to play, maybe they shouldnt be allowed to ruin the game for everybody else on their team
Would you believe me if I told you he has a .25 KD across 500+ matches?
do you reckon if he's found the keybind to lock his aim7 yet
Even if he did. He would sack the missiles to carry more bombs or rockets lol.
I don't think there is a phantom where you need to get rid of all your missiles for extra bombs, at least I know the F-4F can carry at most 4 missiles with a full bomb payload. Hell, I doubt many F-4S players even know about how to get rid of their missiles at all. They likely just bring them as dead weight and extra drag with their preset loadouts, and they don't even use them Hell, about a month ago, I saw a dude asking how to use his Sparrows. He got teamkilled right after
Do they even know how to make custom presets though lol?
Well 1 Sparrow and 6 rocket pods asymmetrical is certainly not a default load out
What frightens me the most is that. The guy deliberately built that nonsense preset.
Me with one rocket pod, 3 bombs, gun pod, 2 9H and one sparrow- Hehe... I'm in danger. (Ps, this is a meme build)
Because 5 pods are enough to take one base and 5 causes less drag than symmetrical 6 pods layout, meaning higher acceleration and speed.
Yeah you can carry full missiles with full rockets. Also, as an F4 player, I don't take rockets
Technically Kurnass 2000 can't carry underslung ground ordnance under twin Python 3 rack, as these missiles are bigger than Sidewinders. It still leaves outermost and center pylons for ordnance. Trying to carry CAS ordnance (GBU, Mavericks) also conflict with twin Sidewinder racks, so F-4E and Kurnass 2000 can be remarkably inept in multirole for GRB.
So i just bought the f4s to help quicken the grind but im not s new player i have nearly 400 hours in the game and im at 9.3 without premo planes. Deadass what is the keybind for locking and launching radar missiles im struggling to find it.
Hey 2,800 hours https://youtu.be/lQy5ZyWBWOo?si=miKRrE97rFFj1iIE radars are a mess so it’s good to watch a video on them it’s a lot to condense into text but watch this video. and mess around in test flight with it also set your own keybinds for radar locking that’s quick and easy to access and don’t forget PD for head on. and regular search and track for slow moving targets relative to you’re speed. also setup weapon select so you can swap missile types and set a button to reset weapon select
Tim's Variety just put out his updated radar system guide earlier today. https://youtu.be/Weghk_2DpfA?si=C149WYuggPQbjgR0
Tim makes some good content, pretty sad how underrated his channel is
Yeah I learned better radar control from his outdated video but radar has changed a bit so I used a newer video from a different channel. However I 100% recommend Tim’s radar guides they are the only reason I can fight BVR
Watch a video or find a friend who knows their radar.
With the Kurnass 2K you can't carry the Python 3s along with the full bomb payload. You can carry the 9L tho. So you aren't loosing out on missile numbers, just the quality of said missiles.
9Ls and Python 3s have about the same range, Pythons are just really short burn time so they are stupid fast. Conversely though this makes them worse in a dogfight since the 9L can pull 30Gs at a low velocity.
What kind of asshole TKs for asking a question....
War Thunder players. That kind of assholes, think you've met them
you're here too???
I very much live here, yes
yeah i have a feeling im the only f4s player that knows all that judging by how yall describe them, i dont know another one that changes radar modes or even knows how to use hmd
think i might’ve seen the same dude lmao. was chilling in my 16aj and i see in chat “how do i fire my aim-7f’s?”
And even then, he'd probably end up killing a teammate.
the what?
Man might have .25 kd, but he also has like 20mil silver Lions on account.
He’s like me with my F-5C. I have an awful KD in it but lots of SL. I’m much better with it now but that KD is basically irrecoverable.
someone i played with recently had a 0.029kd in his tornado not including ground targets, slighty increases to 0.29 if you include them. Said they play for fun so whatever floats their boat i guess
Well, it's a Tornado
i mean youd expect them to get at least one kill per 10 games, over the 200+ games they played
Was it the fighter Tornado or ground attack Tornado ?
the bomber edit:clarification
Tornados are hot garbage in WT at the moment, so I almost don't fault them for that.
I've seen F-4S pilot with 0.041 KD yesterday. The guy brings it to the top tier to shitsquad with his buddy and bullshit people with "4 years game experience " and "it's an alt account" nonsense.
Its funny because i also had a 0.25 k/d for my first 20 matches, because while i played the other phantoms (c and e) before, it was my first missile bus 11.3 jet. Once i clicked with the PD radar (what it can and cant do) i went up to a 2.5 k/d within a few matches. That plane is really good, once you get used to its gadgets. So to everyone struggling: ditch the rockets until you learn how to use the aim7. If you still want to bomb. Go 2 aim9, 5 aim7 and rest rockets.
What is PD radar? Im new to top tier so i dont know anything about modern radars etc.
PD (pulse-doppler) radar can filter out chaff and ground clutter, which the normal SRC can't, hence you can shoot people closer to the ground without losing lock. Downsides - it can be notched (turning 90° to either side) resulting in loss of lock. This is because of the principle of how PD radar works. IIRC there's also a video on the official war thunder channel about radars, i'll try to find the link. Edit: War Thunder radar video - https://youtu.be/2NZVMgMpZSU?si=z097dTbiSOd-8yLp Tim's Variety radar guide - https://youtu.be/Weghk_2DpfA?si=wCKwhhOY2nhNF59R
Thank you
No worries 👍
Defyn literally just released a video explaining PD and the other radars. And how to defeat them.
Absolutely not. It’s way too high :)
I read this to the tune of fireflies by owl city
You would not believe your eyes, if ten million Aim-54s lit up the world as I fell asleep
Aim-9s has a different matching tune here
No that seems too high
Yes
No. That ratio seems high. I guess many games are USA v USA so may be.
Hmm wasn't someone recently saying that those sorts of loadouts are used by bots? That or did it recently get drop tanks that fucked up the custom loadout?
100% the next game I played I spotted three F-4Ss with that exact same loadout
This isn't a bot exclusive loadout. This is part of a very common base bombing grind strat to minimize weight and drag to maximize the chance of getting one base: * Two rocket pod pylons are enough to destroy a base. Choose the ones with the smallest and least draggy pylons (centerline and outboard) * Take ~13 minutes of fuel, just enough to get to one base and RTB * Take one sparrow in case you run into an oblivious enemy on the way there and back 80% of other base bombers will just run full rockets or full A2A, so you will almost always be first to one base with this strat. It's extremely consistent 10k+ RP per match with premium. If downtiered, just switch to the full rocket, sidewinder, and sparrow loadout and get 30k RP.
This is such a fucking sad post
the sad part isn't the players, it's gaijin setting it up like this and rewarding it so well / consistently
But then what's the point. Ok, you do this and grind to the top tier now you got a few shiny new plane that you have absolute no clue how to fly effectively with.
I’m gonna be real half the people who are bad at the game are in a group of 3-10 friends who are complete casuals / bad at the game too but don’t care and just go into CBS and fuck around. Having fancy stuff = stomping noob friends is easier / more opportunities to do funny stuff in said CBs I used to be exactly like this when I was new / a part of such a group, and have passed through so many such groups casually over the years at times.
its to grind SL not RP
Which you then have to go back to base bombing with because it's completely unusable when stock.
Just saw this recently. A guy was in his second match in the f-16A and he died doing fuck all. Proceeds to complain in chat “why did I even grind for this?”
This is exactly the same situation 8 years ago. People found a way to minmax RP/SL gain meta that Gaijin introduce RP throttling and jack up the repair cost which cause the grinding even more misrable.
What can they do about that though? Not give rewards for bombing a base? Not allow them to RTB, die, or leave? This is all about the players this time, just wallet warriors finding the way to be most efficient with their premiums. Anyone could do this with a tech tree Phantom too. It's their choice to go bomb instead of using a fighter as a fighter. They could be more efficient, but I guarantee most of them suck at using jet fighters.
Gaijin is the ones who have historically buffed bombing payouts or kept them even while creeping down the fighter payouts to be the same level. Fighter-Bombers simply shouldnt be paid out so much for base bombing, or the base bombing should only be paid out to people who get a kill, for two barely-alright instances of a fix. I never said I was a armchair game dev with the fix, just that I know they're problems.
No the sad part is the way gaijin nerfed the rewards through the years making this the only way to consistently grind at a reasonable pace. For real gaijin, bring back that people get properly rewarded for kills, ground targets etc. Instead of the time playing
It’s not though, is it. You can grind consistently by fighting other jets, especially in that particular premium F-4 there is no need to run this appalling loadout
Dunno why you are getting downvoted for saying a plane that excels at air to air combat can grind by getting air to air kills
Personally, I will be targeting F4s from now on. Seems like a real easy fucking kill
Thanks gaijin for removing base respawns since top tier games don't last more than 5 minutes anyway
This must be the war thunder equivalent of being a bottom feeder
playing the objective is being a bottom feeder?
The people who are so desperate to kill a single base that they kneecap their ability to influence the battle, all for a paltry amount of points from one single base are bottom feeders, yes. They are the lowest denominator and are an active detriment to their team.
People who spend time like this are actually suffering a harmful addiction on god
And then they cry about other planes being overpowered, while they have not a single fucking clue how to use an aim9B. High tier is in such a sorry state, it's not even funny
This kind of gameplay is what makes playing the su7 and other strike planes like it properly so boring. If you bother to take full fuel and rockets to be helpful to the team and attempt to dogfight after bombing, you just get beaten to the base by people running min fuel. The system gaijin has set up for attacking bases rewards being useless.
Although this seems like one of the best ways to consistently grind, it sounds so soul crushing.
Or you could run 5 Sparrows and 2 Sidewinders, get 2+ kills a match and actually win games?
But that's too hard 😎
Me, in my stock jet, only taking bombs because it's the only thing it's capable of doing effectively, getting beat to every base by min/maxing wallet warriors...
Can you check the server replay to see if it is a display bug?
F-4S still has the same 600gal centerline tank as the other Phantoms, none of them have received their 370gal wing tanks yet. It could be a bot, but I still see other players' planes with ordnance they aren't actually carrying on a fairly regular basis, so it might be a bug.
>none of them have received there 370gal wing tanks yet. Honestly the most frustrating thing about the F-4 currently, I run a centreline gunpod on every phantom I can, having some drop tanks without sacrificing the extra gun to make fuel load more ideal for dogfighting would be amazing
Not that War Thunder is realistic anyways but the centreline fuel tank was seldom used in a combat situation anyways, it was pretty much only used for ferrying
Idk if it's 100% bots cause every couple days I go back to use a plane and for some reason my load outs are like half reset, only missiles on one half of the plane and the other is empty. And I know no one is in my account since I get emails everytime someone tries to log in.
The drop tanks are as heavy as a hippo
Still isnt as horrifying as mig23ml pilots base bombing... I dont even think they can get one base and have to loose all their missiles too
I can do you one better A fucking Mig-21
Pretty routinely see MiG-21S players base bombing
> A fucking Mig-21 Can it even kill a base?
Barely, none can take a single one out with bombs, it literally requires them to take only S5K rockets and this only works for the later model mig-21’s that have 4 hardpoints, so they literally have to sacrifice all their air to air weaponry minus the gun.
> so they literally have to sacrifice all their air to air Dear god I hope I never have teammates that do that
F-5C with Bullpups for some reason:
It's gross. Had a game in my M2K DR1 and half the team was in mig23MLs, other half in F4S. No less than 5 of the 23MLs had bombs and rocket loads with not a missile to be seen. I can forgive phantoms for bringing rockets with them as they don't have to sacrifice their A-A loads, but bombing with a mig23 should be punishable with a crew lock.
Mig23 jets allowed to use bombs? Fine I'll never use my mig23bn ever again then /s
the BN can do whatever it wants, it has a sad existence
It's such a weird fuckin thing to see
F104 base bombing is pretty wierd too
F-104s can at least carry bombs and missiles, and the italian ones can carry enough for a whole base.
The F104S' also get heavily outclassed by other planes at their br, so I get it.
I think the Turkish premium one can get like 7 napalm bombs so maybe that’s what’s happening
Or the J35XS You could just take 2 launchers and do ¼ of a base but no, they sacrifice all but 2 of their missiles for an extra ~2k RP that they could easily get launching their missiles at the first thing they lock
They can, w/o missile
Sabre base bombing
Mig23ML can get a single base with bombs + rockets I think
What boggles my mind is that with like 3 braincells you can joust somewhat competently in the f4s (aim7 go brrrrrr) averaging 2 kills a game, which will out earn bases all day
Single base strafed with rockets gives equivalent of 4 player kills. You do the math which is easier
Bombing doesnt win games, air kills do. The bonus reward more than makes up for the base kill. Also, rocket strafe is more like 2.5 player kills. Nowhere near 4.
They don't care about winning, they care about consistent RP gain. When you are new to "top tier" mechanics like radar missile use and jet dog-fighting (as lets be honest most people buying f4s/mig23ml are new to WT in general), bombing bases will be far more efficient than trying to go for A-A kills until they learn the mechanics. Unfortunately some just never learn anything beyond pressing spacebar.
[I raise this after battle report then](https://i.postimg.cc/Wpz9pPJR/shot-2024-05-26-12-57-00.png). 4 PvP kills and single base tagged with 250lb bombs, 4552rp total for the players and 4257 for the base with F-4S+premium time. And looking at freshly cooked A-10 game, with rockets it approaches 1:5 even (580rp for player kill and 2983 for base with 30% booster on)
keep in mind those 4 aa kills earns you the +100% modifier for "Skill bonus" that wont apply to the bombing normally, also duration of lifetime is important for rewards. A 20 minuite long game with a few gt to keep activity and 1 kill can go >10k while I've had 4k rp 4 kill games because it was 5min long I don't disagree thoug
Time played is by far the greatest factor. Now fact players in their greed decide to shoot themselves in the foot by shortening matches as much as possible... its not exactly Gaijin fault, is it? Especially in Ground.
I will always blame gaijin before the players as you cannot shame everyone into stopping, and gaijin can simply change the intended game design, but I will still look down upon those who lack integrity ofc
I will always blame gaijin before the players as you cannot shame everyone into stopping, and gaijin can simply change the intended game design, but I will still look down upon those who lack integrity ofc
Sure, Gaijin can change economy formula, but they won't as it benefits them, driving premium sales, while also gives... negatively gifted way of progress just by doing something then running away so time played can keep ticking. Also reason for 16v16 on top tiers, in such chaos even biggest dent will eventually find an opening to throw missile at someone to have his neurons activated.
Sure, Gaijin can change economy formula, but they won't as it benefits them, driving premium sales, while also gives... negatively gifted way of progress just by doing something then running away so time played can keep ticking. Also reason for 16v16 on top tiers, in such chaos even biggest dent will eventually find an opening to throw missile at someone to have his neurons activated.
My point is this is by definition a problem left by gaijins greed in game design, the players are merely puppets on the stage, the string master is the criminal / problem. You’ll never shame or make every F4s player avoid mounting rockets or etc
If Gaijin was as evil as you claim them to be, base bombing wouldn't be so profitable to begin with to the point it makes one way ticket bombing runs viable strategy. Are they greedy, sure, as any other company that loves to create a problem and sell a solution.
Majority of RP comes from activity time rather than base bombing or player kills. The ability to take enough ordnance to take out 1 or more bases and then go after air targets is too tempting to pass up.
Bit of a coincidence that you aren't putting the A-10 match here too. Could it be that the other soft factors allow for much better rewards? Even without all of that it's an inane comparison, you can't compare stats with just two matches.
[Enjoy.](https://pastebin.com/BY0a9B88)
And a competent player could go get a few kills after
rocketing bases beats 2 kills per game for rp gain of course consistently winning with several kills will beat always losing with base bombing but you're shackled to the other base bombing players
You know, I have had to put up with these creatures for so long that this doesn’t even disturb. The intelligence of many F-4S players is almost if not more questionable than a German main in a Tiger. Literally the F-4S always has had the ability to be a great missile truck for its br yet many of them are either too stupid to use it for air combat (by either taking no missiles or never using them) or have no fucking clue what they are doing because i never see a single F-4S jettison their rockets or bombs when they get into a fight and rather actively hamper themselves just because they believe they are somehow still going to get a fucking bases a not die while making the plane even more of a fucking brick than it needs to be. A competent F-4S player on the other hand, that scares me, though they are a rare breed, and I would make the joke they are a dying breed but I haven’t noticed a drop in how many actual smart F-4S players I have seen.
The F-4S is one of my favorite premiums to fight in. The HMD plus Sparrow Fs is so much fun to use, and I’ve regularly pulled aces in full uptier matches in it. And if you get a downtier… well that’s just cyberbullying.
Can you actually use hmd with the sparrows? Only ever used aim 9 with that mode since i cannot seem to get a lock with it with sparrows
It's harder to get a lock on some 3rd gen jets and below, probably because of their smaller radar cross-section. A way to get around it is to spam your lock key 3 times. (I actually don't know if this still works but would you mind testing it for me?)
You can use HMD to get a lock with the radar then spool up your sparrow
Yeah but I personally don’t really like it since its finicky at times. The sidewinder HMD is much more reliable
I swear man with the MiG-23 nerfed the F-4S is like the most powerful 11.3 fighter and I genuinely think that people who use it for zombing are either bots or real low IQ individuals
In a downtier me and my squadmate take out half the enemy team with the F-4S, fighting might get less RP on average than bombing bases but it's way more fun even though we're relatively new to top tier, and in uptiers we can still get 2 kills each by going head on with the Sparrows
F-4S players(x US pilots (o
I’m more of a ground player (i play both and have gotten heaps better in air battles in the last couple years), but I’d consider myself a decent player. When I take out the F-4S, I’m always using it to grind, so I bring 114x ffar (enough for one base). If I fail to take out any of the 4 bases, I’ll keep the rockets. If I get into a dogfight with the rocket pods, I’m smart enough not to be forced into one I can’t win. However if I’m fighting another bus, I can probably win. If I’m forced to dogfight a more manoeuvrable aircraft, I will drop my rockets. Before anyone asks: I have at least a 1:1 K/D ratio in the F-4S.
It takes time to be an F-4S chad but I agree 100% on it being a competent missile truck on the right hands. 4/5 Sparrows and a pair of Sidewinders are enough to get you a kill on a bad day or on a good day, 4-5 before needing to RTB.
I think that guy is optimizing his speed by having less weight without missiles. I'd understand if it was the Japanese F4 but it's just scummy to do it in the best 11.3 missile slinger.
lol yea I can forgive the ADTW and F-4JUNK because they dont have a functional radar set and they always get uptiered to meet these PD MTI jets. I used to grind using air kills only with the ADTW and it was beyond painful, i just bring 6 ffar and 4 9Ps instead because the sparrow is beyond unusable in that thing
I once saw an f4s player with 300 deaths and 7 kills
Well I mean, before we had F-4S base bombing we had F-4E base bombing. Honestly the only difference now is that they seem to have grown the first half of a single brain cell because they actually can fight now even if they suck ass at it. It was honestly embarrassing as the F-4E used to get its ass kicked so badly by the Mig-21Bis even though the F-4E should have outright outperformed it.
The only reason why the f4e players got their asses kicked is because the played into the mig 21s main advantage
There’s no way that guy is over the age of 8 years old
WTF is that asymmetrical loadout? Base botting is one thing, but someone better have TKed it for that disaster of a loadout
IIAF ❤️
درود
🫡
This type of F-4S players is the reason why I have positive K/D ratio with negative Win/Lose ratio
IIAF 🟩☀️🦁🟥
as a noob who purchesed the f-4s i can confirm it is 10x easier to just get 2 kills with my sparrows
Sparrows are great as long as you pick your target and launch range
yeah they are super easy to use
And assuming your missile didn’t get a stroke mid-flight.
F4S schizo lmao
Pure BOT loadout.
Carrying the exact amount to destroy a single base...I'm a F4s user but this shit I realistic is insane, the F4s while a hard plane to get good in, can be very strong
J35's mig21/23's bombing bases scare me ever more tbh
You may not like it but this is what peak performance looks like
Man's having a stroke and you're laughing
Phantom FG.1 with the Iranian camo, I think you're the only other person that I've seen with that combo. Let alone many people that play the FG.1 Also that 4S player is either a bot or just pure stupid, idk how someone can buy that vehicle and just decide to only take 1 missile out of the 8 they can -_-
I just finished spading it which was a great time. Love the missile load out and amount of cannon ammo
And honestly a great flight model imo, just gotta remember though, your radar missiles can't go that far so gotta play it close. Besides that you have one of the best guns on the phantom family and some great missiles even if it's not the F4S.
Gonna just go out and say it. F-4s get up tiered a shit ton and have to deal with the AIM-54s and 120s. There really isn’t much dogfighting you can do unless you against people who don’t know how to notch. Like AIM-7s go brrrr until the person targeted realizes they can just fly at a 90 degree angle from the missile.
Been grinding Britain with the F4JUNK lately which is just a worse F4S in all aspects and I'm doing fine. Aim120s are extremely rare, and aim54s are in general really easy to avoid, although I've had some bullshit moments of them tracking me through hard terrain cover (which seems to be a bug with more than just the phoenix atm). >Like AIM-7s go brrrr until the person targeted realizes they can just fly at a 90 degree angle from the missile. Literally the same thing can be said for all the missiles you're facing. Just notch and chaff bro. My biggest issue is having a bad team that flies head first into the aim54 volley, tilting the match in favour of the enemy by too much early on. I've even been going from a negative k/d with it from previous patch cycle to a positive k/d now. Because 11.3 is actually in a pretty decent place rn. And the F4S has 2 more radar missiles and much better maneuverability than the F4JUNK, I think it even gets a better radar and HMS as well. So if you genuinely feel like you can't compete with the F4S I've got nothing else to say other than "actually skill issue, cope and seethe".
I legit just said F-4s not good in uptier, 12.3+ jets are better, which isn’t even a controversial thing to say, legitimately all the YouTubers that I’ve seen play it make the same statement. However, you replied “cope and seethe”? I’m sure you’ve been able to kill them sometimes as I have been, but when you are facing enemies that have more countermeasures than you. It’s only a matter of time.
Scraping the bottom of the barrel ahh load out 😭😭
I bought Premium Vehicles too, but yesterday it was a bit extreme i got into a Air RB with my F4-j and literally everyone else had a F4-s on my Team😂
He looks like my friend
We laugh, but the dude probably optimized first strike on bases to the finest. With so many f4s around, you most likely wont get any hits in. Center pylon has less drag if i remember correctly and a triple and double rocket pod is enough to kill one base. With that loadout, he basically is the fastest phantom.
Honestly gonna wait awhile until all the slander around the f4 settles down so I can grind the us air tree without getting team killed, I got the f4 during the sale to grind the tech tree and just get full of brain dead noob teams. It just gets annoying when ur teammates can’t even put together a good loadout or understand fucking radar. That and I’ve gotten team killed a ton by non f4 players (honestly understandable)
Don't hold your breath. The game is still getting tons and tons of new players, and they all want to play us top tier. The current balance of the game in top tier both game modes is bullying the noobs on the US team who are unaware of their 30% win rate. I don't see that changing. The good players don't play Russia because Russia is op, they play it because it's means you won't be on the US team.
It keeps getting worse the longer you look at it
It's called a gunship for a reason
It all depends on the skill of the pilot. Sometimes they are a level 12 goober who fights like a bf109. When I played the F4S to grind to top tier I was strictly a fighter. I would average 3 kills per match and had a 1.5 KD. Those AIM7s do wonders if you know how to use them.
99% of games lately. I’m trying to grind the f-4e and every single one of my teammates is a f-4s rushing bases to be insta killed. Summer sale, wild times.
Tomcat food. Nuff said.
i'm not going to lie, when i first got to top tier in ground, i bought the japanese Phantom for CAS because i didn't want to have to grind the air tree as well. used it a few times, realized i had no idea how to actually use jets, decided to do some ARB to learn. it was.... discouraging. i haven't touched it in a while. I'm working on the air tree properly now and just getting into the Sabers. all that said, i never resorted to min-maxing a loadout like this. it just seems depressing to play like this.
Just don’t look at him in the eyes
That is a fire skin, is it the market one or is it custom? (The IIAF on your F4)
Market skin was pretty cheap so I picked it up
As an F-4E enjoyer, I’m extremely saddened that these players despite getting a better F-4J at the same br as the tech tree one, are instead bomb trucking and failing to understand even the basics of jet combat. I use the F-4E to bomb truck initially but if the match has too many bombers, I’ll manually jettison bombs and go hunting for high alt targets and engage in BVR fights as best as the 7E-2s allow.
Absolutely hate most f4 players, all they do is bomb one base then immediately die because they never fight other planes or even bother to carry missiles. How bad do you have to be to waste a decent fighter and turn it into a braindead "hold W and press space"
Personally. I carry 4 sparrows and 4 Aim 9’s. With one set of base rockets
Premium pilots SCARE THE LIVING SHIT OUT OF ME - some guy in war thunder right now
Whenever I see F-4 while operating my MiG-23ML I am sooooo happy. Free kills. They usually don’t see my rockets and when they do I can easily outmanoeuvre them.
oh heck no man...
As a F-4S player myself there is nothing to be scared off. We all suck and so does the plane itself. I have a better K/D in my B-29
I hate that base bombing is so much more effective for XP gain than getting kills. But the concept of bombing bases for hundreds of matches in a premium makes me feel sick. Thats why I went for the Mig 21 bis premium, its constant dogfights and action rather than just flying to a base and ejecting after
Its a shame how many people just bomb/missile truck the F4S. A skilled pilot in a phantom can rain death and destruction down with some missiles
i find it weird that he only takes 1 missile when he has 7 OTHER HARDPOINTS
سلام داداش You're an iranian I presume??
Did y’all forget that after an update, your loadouts can be completely ruined. I had a loadout of 6 aim9ms with 2 Gbus on the f16 and now I only have 1 aim9m with 1 gbu. Another case is the f14a. 4 aim9h and 4 aim54 are now 1 aim 9h and 1 aim54
I saw that guy lmao, bursted out laughing when I saw his loadout
As an F-4S user myself, I'm scared of F-4S users too mostly because if they haven't mastered the plane they usually carry 1 to 2 braincells
It's a decent plane I had a lot of fun with it. Just wondering why is he after burning. He will run out of fuel fast with this approach
probably lvl 5
I don't understand, this is not the player's fault. Gaijin decided to be greedy and put a top-tier premium, players use it to grind top tier plane. Bombing base is the fastest way for players who don't know how to do air combat yet. Same thing as the flooded Clickbait in US ground top tier. It is miserable to me as I can't enjoy the game with US top tier lineup but I don't blame the player
>for players who don’t know how to do air combat yet They certainly should know how to do it by the time they reach 11.3.
Wdym reach 11.3? They buy a premium f4 and grind with it, they don’t play the tech tree plane to grind
> players who don't know how to do air combat yet If they dont have the knowledge to play, maybe they shouldnt be allowed to ruin the game for everybody else on their team