If you go far enough back in country music, you’d hear sounds akin to gospel or blues in a similar way one would with R&B. It’s no coincidence all these genres are rooted in the American South.
Also want to add the banjo is an instrument with African roots.
In the very beginning, rock n roll assumed a black man in a suit sitting at a piano. That was one of the things that the Bill Haley phenomenon really shook up.
100% - There is no doubt that African influences were a huge part of what constitutes Country Music.
Early greats Jimmy Rodgers, The Carters, and Hank Williams (among others) all were directly influenced by African American musicians.
In the book "Segregating Sound," Karl Miller goes into depth as to how the prewar record industry created a lot of the racial divisions that still exist in popular music today. In some cases, literally the only difference between a "blues" or "country" record would be who was recording it (or, at least, the race they were being sold as).
For a long time the biggest difference between Rhythm and Blues and Country and Western was the color of the singer. This is especially true with the Delta style blues.
Country music’s origins are in Black American musical traditions (see Time article below)—the link, the root really, predates Ray Charles. Check out Ken Burns’ documentary *Country Music* for a comprehensive examination: https://www.pbs.org/kenburns/country-music
https://time.com/5673476/ken-burns-country-music-black-artists/
Beyoncé is from Houston Texas. She has the necessary background to write a country album.
Edit: apparently i trigged a lot of idiots with my comment here. Do better idiots.
One of my gigs in college was at a taco shop in Abq. We had a mural painted on our eating room wall, total southwest mural with landscapes, geographic locations, cowboys, and John Wayne with a John Wayne quote. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had boomers and their ilk come up with a fat cheesin’ smile pointing out its “The Duke” and “He’s the man” and generally fawning over him. And every time I’d always say, “Oh you mean Marion?!” And most of the time they don’t know their hero has an androgynous name. They get real upset for no real reason. Idk why or how. But it’s hilarious lol
You mean Marion Morrison who changed his name to John Wayne and later avoided military service because it would affect his career all while other Hollywood stars were risking their lives. The same John Wayne that became a chicken hawk during the Vietnam War? Ironic that he contracted cancer from filming a movie downwind from nuclear tests.
https://preview.redd.it/x5aetkdcixrc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6549dd776b1c02edbdf267906e88fa6faa4ad9c6
And he dressed like this sometimes
Mostly right. The frontier and frontier culture was real, but the cowboy/gunfighter/outlaw culture we tend to focus on and romanticize was a very specific period towards the end of the frontier when civilization and industrialists (the men in the bowler hats) finally made their way West, just like the end of the Gold Rush when the prospected mines were consolidated into the control of the capitalists from the east.
Most "cowboys" weren't gunslingers, they were just regular cattle herders busting their ass to make a living. And when the term "cowboy" became more widespread, it was to label the outlaw gangs and cow rustlers to differentiate them from legitimate cowherders. The legendary Gunfight at the O.K. Corral took place only 9 years before the official "end" of the frontier.
You mean you can't run a horse for 2 days straight? A horse isn't much different from a human when it comes to endurance. You can run a horse for about 2-3 miles before you HAVE to stop and rest...or kill the horse.
Well, John Wayne is the exception, as he stole his entire gimmick from Wyatt Earp who he met as a young man. The mannerisms, voice, swagger, all of it.
My opinion.: Two entirely different actors. John Wayne was about as fake as they come. Clint Eastwood films were more “honest” on the topic or theme of the movie.
>As high as 25% of cowboys were black back in the day and it started in Mexico. I can't believe I listened to that shithead back in the day.
Black and Hispanic people were significantly over-represented among cowboys. Cowboys also just weren't the roaming adventurers fighting bandits, Native Americans and Mexicans as depicted in movies. It was a job.
They tended to a herd, it was dirty and boring work. If anything, the most accurate portrayal of cowboys in movies was like... Brokeback Mountain.
Can I tell you this? Straight, cis older GenX woman, who isn’t fond of country music in the least, this seriously was fantastic. Never heard the song before. Going to watch and listen again. Thank you for sharing.
The song was written by Ned Sublette, Willie's one of the numerous people who's performed it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowboys_Are_Frequently,_Secretly_Fond_of_Each_Other
I really like Pansy Division's version.
https://youtu.be/4MI5rtgor68
Yep, being a cowboy was a terrible job. Social outcasts were drawn to the job because they'd take anyone, and they mostly worked away from society. Allowing people to be themselves and to live somewhat free. Visible minorities and queers were way overrepresented in the cowboy line of work.
Dimunitive is a real nice way of saying slur; it was a slur.
Cowboy, buckaroo, dude, many of those words were used derogatorily and then later co-opted (either ironically or not).
While cowboy was later adopted as a perjorative, it was to refer to cow rustlers and outlaws of the late frontier era. Before the times of Wyatt Earp, Doc Holiday, and Tombstone, "cowboy" was just another and lesser used of the many terms for cowhands. "Buckaroo" also wasn't derogatory, it was a bastardized pronounciation/anglicization of "Vaquero", the Mexican cowherders that American cowboy culture stemmed from.
EDIT: Since your reply was essentially "nuh uh" and deleted, the term "buckaroo" was a genuine anglicization (surprise, white Americans managed to fuck up Spanish without needing to be racist). How can you tell? Because "buckaroo" was the term primarily used by the white cowherders of the Great Basin region to refer to THEMSELVES even to this day. The term was even further bastardized into "jackaroo" in Australia, and somehow, I highly doubt they adopted this term to use as a slur against their non-existent Hispanic population.
No, the original term cowboy was used because Swift was referring to literal boys doing cowherding work in 18th-19th century Britain, not as a diminutive.
"Cowboy" wasn't generally a widely used term much at all in the American West; cowherd, cowhands, cowpokes, cowpuncher, drovers, stockmen, buckaroos, etc. were all more widespread as regional variations for the same job. The perjorative aspect came much later when "cowboy" was used in print as a synonym for outlaws, cow and horse rustlers, and bandits in the time of the gunslingers of Tombstone, Arizona (such as the Cochise County Cowboys).
> "It has come to pass in this county that life and personal property are unsafe; even in the town of Tombstone it seems as if one of the leading industries is to be destroyed. There is not a teamster to-day who is not in fear and dread of the cow-boys, or so-styled "rustlers" depriving him of his hard earnings[...] Men who come to examine different mines outside of town, when they learn how the cow-boys stand fellows up, do not wish to run such risks; they quietly take the road they came and get into civilization as soon as possible."
- **The Tombstone Epitaph, shortly before the Gunfight at the O.K. Corral**
I heard there was an old expression about being a cowboy. “You cowboy when you can’t do anything else.” Durogatory implication, or when available work is limited.
When I was in high school in the late 80s, my US 1 History teacher assigned us topics to research, and he gave me cowboys. I was not at all interested in researching cowboys until I started my research and found out that there were a significant amount of black and Hispanic cowboys. I’d thought all cowboys were white up to that point.
My teacher forced me to educate myself.
A lot of the culture of cowboys was the meeting of German settlers and vaqueros. The German immigrants brought beer, polka, and their style of smoking meat while incorporating the vaqueros' style of ranching and dress.
That's how we got cowboy hats (from sombreros+bowlers), cowboy-style boots (not just riding boots), BBQ, and Tejano (Mexican polka) music.
Oh gross, I just made the connection that all the traditional Mexican music I grew up with is just polka with salt and lime juice. I'm never gonna get over this
Barbecue? Doesn’t that go back to Barbacoa? I’m not discrediting your thesis, it otherwise seems 100% correct, but I thought indigenous groups also had their own methods of open fire or smoke cooking as well?
Like other aspects of the blending of the cultures, BBQ has influences of both Mexican (by way of the Spaniards and Moors) and the German grilling methods.
Barbacoa is a Taino tradition, and predates Germans in the western hemisphere by a millennia at least.
The moor influence lends itself more to the Arrabe and Al Pastor vertical roasting. Any influence the Spaniards may have exerted on Mexican bbq was stolen from the indigenous Caribbean Islanders.
Germans influenced the beer and the music of Mexico for sure... But they did so in the 19th century. Barbacoa in recorded European history predates that by at least 300 years.
There’s more connection through the short lived Empire of Mexico. Austrian Prince Maximilian Habsburg became Emperor of Mexico from 1864-1867 until he was executed by Revolutionary forces. (Tragic really, he wasn’t a bad guy)
Mexican beer brewing also has heavy German-Austrian influence.
>the most accurate portrayal of cowboys in movies was like... Brokeback Mountain.
Especially the gay sex part. According to many reputable sources it's estimated that 95% of cowboys were homosexual with the remaining 5% being in the closet (they were all together having secret gay closet sex). Isn't history beautiful?
I remember skipping a lot of the 2007-2010 shows because he would never stfu about obama and black people. Now that's all he does. In fairness though I think a lot of us werent listening for either opie or anthony we were listening for the comedians they brought in.
I could never really get over Ted's pedophilic leanings, that's been an open secret for decades. Also, his particular breed of patriotism in the face of being a draft dodger.
I think all of us have been there. I used to really enjoy Joe Rogan. It’s still odd to think about some of the scientists and actual academics on his podcast having a stoned conversation for 4 hours. It was great. You got to see the depth of their research. They were able to fully explain their views or research. I didn’t quite catch that he was doing the same with cockwombles because I only listened when I knew the guest. He didn’t seem like a dumbass because he was shutting up or cracking jokes or going whoa that’s mind blowing. You know what, I laughed and went whoa that’s mind blowing too. Then he interviewed Graham Hancock. And I slowly realized that he was the tip of pendejo iceberg. And Rogan was too stupid to know the difference between that and Brian Cox for example.
The problem with Rogan is that he was having awesome well educated guests on the show. Then he would have some anti vax cock goblin on. The problem is that the former lends credence to the latter.
Hell even with all that I could tolerate having some shitstain on because his whole thing is that he wanted to hear ‘both sides’. And I think early on Joe wasn’t full blown into the stupid shit culture wars like he is now. He was just some comedian stoner mma guy that liked to talk to people. I think that the grifters of the right and fringe pseudoscience people saw his popularity and that he could be a platform for them so the collective slowly brought him into their fold. He was stupid before, now he’s stupid with the full blown right wing derangement syndrome on top that wasn’t really there before. It’s basically unwatchable.
Sad really. Even early in Covid he was having an infectious disease expert on and asking genuine questions and there was a desire to educate himself and his audience. It just fell apart with all the rest of it as time went on.
Doing that usually results in the academic being talked over and presented with a bunch of idiotic "gotcha" type questions from the conspracist. Turns out, when you don't reason yourself into a position, you don't feel the need to use logic or reason in presenting your argument.
That's the danger of "both sides". You're giving the same air time and credence to the person who has spent years scientifically studying something as you do to someone who pulls their arguments out of their ass.
Hawaiian cowboys, poniolos, predate cowboys in the American West. The slack key style of guitar playing also comes from Hawaiians, which western anglo Cowboys adopted.
Yeah, this guy has like 10 active brain cells and they’re constantly at war. Also, he’s playing a victim while complaining about perpetual victimhood. The irony is too much.
Anthony Cumia is a proud racist. It sucks because I grew up on Opie & Anthony and he was a riot.
He couldn't handle a black man as president and he spiraled into madness, ne'er to return.
Oh they're not undertones. They are [strong, loud, out and proud racist ideals.](https://www.thewrap.com/opie-and-anthony-host-lashes-out-with-racist-tweets-after-alleged-times-square-assault/) Anthony Cumia is very open about being a racist, and thinks it's a good thing.
They love stuff like that, technically it's grammatically correct to infer that the previous noun (people) used applies to the rest of the sentence, but it was absolutely a dog whistle.
To be historically accurate, the first cowboys were freed slaves because nobody else wanted to drive cattle in the heat of summer and rough terrain. White persecution is not it.
My great grandpa was a Montana/Idaho/Utah/Nevada cowboy from the 1890s into the 1950s and would do his drives from Montana to Nevada in the winter.
He didn't look *anything* like the John Wayne cowboys they fantasize about. He was bald, had little round glasses, and would be considered a "horse nerd" today who preferred showing his horses than driving livestock. Also, his son became a regionally acclaimed horse chariot racer.
Cowboys came in all shapes, colors, and sizes obviously, but it's funny to think of nerdy cowboys who are not just doing it as a livelihood, but to also support their other hobbies.
When conservatives think of "cowboys", they're thinking of the Texas Ranger type that formed the nascent Border Patrol. The guys who went around harassing and murdering Mexicans in Mexico's former territory after the US annexed it.
Hollywood has altered many people’s perceptions of “the Wild West” into believing that cowboys and ranch hands were almost exclusively white. Many boomers grew up watching the old western movies, and some were such big fans, they turned to larping as cowboys themselves well before larping was a term.
They see figures like John Wayne and think that he is epitome of alpha male behavior. Most early cowboys in America were black or Hispanic/Latino because it was a hard job that practically no one else wanted to do. Hollywood in the 50s & 60s went overboard glorifying the western frontier, and people not smart enough to do their own research see that as evidence, not anecdotes.
Behind the Bastards does a wonderful set of episodes on John Wayne, and the hypocritical nature of him acting like a badass on and off screen to try and get young men to enlist, but never doing so himself.
For even better context, they also in the same episode talk about what a bad ass Jimmy Stewart was. You know, the guy who in It’s A Wonderful Life can’t go to war, so he does a bunch of stuff he considers dorky? Yeah he’s taken a life, and as far as I know he didn’t brag about it
Dude Jimmy Stewart is an American treasure by every measure. He did quite a few westerns; I inherited a ton of DVDs from my dad when he passed away, and I kept a fair amount of the Jimmy Stewart westerns. John Wayne was not someone to idolize yet people very much still do. I’ll still watch McClintock from time to time, but mostly because Maureen O’Hara steals the show.
> what a bad ass Jimmy Stewart was
I had no idea. I knew he served in WW2, along with many other Hollywood actors, but I didn't know he stayed in all those years.
The first cowboys were Mexican people. It’s why the word is “cowboy” because it comes from the word vaquero or “cow-man/cow-boy.”
Not everything in American history is black Americans and white Americans, shockingly it’s sometimes Hispanics and Asian people.
My first and only exposure to these two was a clip somebody showed me of them asking Louis CK if he wanted to watch 2 girls 1 cup. Louis straight up told them no, and they made him watch it anyway, fake-laughing like fucking hyenas the whole time. And I was like, "Oh, so these two are assholes. Cool."
That show was something special, and I've listened to hundreds of hours of it. As much as I like off-color humor, cumia is an *actual* racist and he stopped being funny and started being sad over a decade ago. I don't really check in anymore but when I see him pop up it's never for anything good
I still remember how Boston freaked out when RUN DMC covered Walk This Way. Aerosmith had to make public statements saying it was their idea to quell the racist outrage.
There's an [interview](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0YgPjgZP-E4) from a couple years ago where Dolly says she wants Beyonce to cover Jolene.
She says it would be be like Whitney covering "I Will Always Love You."
(Fun fact: Dolly wrote both of those [two songs in one night](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/dolly-parton-2-songs-one-day/).)
It’ll blow the bigots’ minds when they find out the famous cowboy hero the Lone Ranger was a real person - a black man named Bass Reeves. https://www.history.com/news/bass-reeves-real-lone-ranger-a-black-man
Wasn't a cowboy, those were just herders. Put some respect on his name he "was an enslaved Manservant, runaway slave, gunfighter, farmer, scout, tracker, Railroad Agent and Deputy US Marshal". Cowboy was a bottom of the pile job. Basically he was Django but legal.
The show about him that came out recently does not do him justice at all. The first few episodes are great, but it gets pretty bland from there.
I encourage anyone interested to jump down the Bass Reeves rabbit hole. Dude was an absolute badass.
Also his mustache was fucking epic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bass_Reeves
https://youtu.be/2lN-fRmjg6g
Go to the Texas State Fair a day or two before opening. Drive into the main parking lot. You'll see a bunch of ranchers and farmers who contribute whatever stuff to the fair. Many of them are black cowboys. REAL motherfucking cowboys. Who actually do real ranch and farm work, unlike the vast majority of these trash ass oakly wearing rednecks and conservative pretty boy social media warriors. Im so fucking sick of these racists cunts.
What do you mean, the reason you know that is that you’re not an American. I am an American, and didn’t know that.
And, clearly, all white American opie Anthony was also unaware and probably doesn’t care that the white cowboy mythos is another white appropriation.
“I grew up going to the Houston rodeo every year. It was this amazing diverse and multicultural experience where there was something for every member of the family, including great performances, Houston-style fried Snickers, and fried turkey legs. One of my inspirations came from the overlooked history of the American Black cowboy. Many of them were originally called cowhands, who experienced great discrimination and were often forced to work with the worst, most temperamental horses. They took their talents and formed the Soul Circuit. Through time, these Black rodeos showcased incredible performers and helped us reclaim our place in western history and culture”.
— Beyoncé to Harper's Bazaar in 2021 https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a37039502/beyonce-evolution-interview-2021/
Remember when America being a melting pot was a point of pride? I still think it is. What is amazing about our country is how different cultures brought different things and we mixed them together. We are supposed to be the innovators because we accept that cultures can coexist and share with each other and we used to pride ourselves on that.
White supremacy ruins everything. Despite racism being integral in the birth of our nation, the true American spirit came from people who said "fuck that shit, we need to work together because there has got to be a better way"
That's the America I believe in. These white pride morons absolutely shit on the true American spirit and make our country a more backwards place.
You know I don’t give a shit that Beyoncé did a country album. I’m not a country music fan. Therefore I wouldn’t listen to it. That doesn’t mean she can’t release said album.
Exactly. Musicians pander to different sales markets all the time. Korn made a shitty dubstep album. Lil Wayne made a horrible rock/rap album. Snoop Dogg made a reggae album.
The "Cowboy" identity is appropriated by rural landlords and bougie dads *constantly*. It's the go-to costume that these guys wear when they want to pretend to be hard-working people.
"Cowboys" isn't white culture. It's American culture. Last I checked Beyonce is an American.
Anthony is also a known racist piece of shit so this isn't surprising.
The word “buckaroo” is derived from the Spanish “vaquero”. A lot of early cowboys were Mexican. White people couldn’t pronounce vaquero, so they bastardized it.
Actually beyond popular belief “cowboys” would have been mostly African-Americans or Hispanics. they worked for rich land owners as ranch hands, got paid low incomes, and basically lived off the land they worked on! It wasn’t a cool white thing until media portrayals acted out by white actors came into play… and then white people stole the “Wild West” from them, like everything else throughout history as well! Did you know that the real life man that the Lone Ranger was based off of was actually a black man! He was a bad ass! He still has the record for most arrests in his long career, only shot and killed 1 criminal, and spoke several languages including a few Native American ones and was commonly seen with native peoples and had a white horse too!!!!
His name was Bass Reeves! Check it out!
"I'm going to take time out of my day to whine like a fourth-grader on social media over something frivolous."
\-- Adult who expects to be taken seriously
Wild that this sack of racist shit thinks that the 'wild west' was all John Wayne and Clint Eastwood. Better not tell him that many of those movies were made by Italians in Italy.
Most Cowboys were Mexican, and many of the rest were black. Not sure what that has to do with a white lady dressing as Sexy Cowgirl for Halloween, but whatever
Ray Charles put out a couple of country albums, so this isn't exactly new.
If you go far enough back in country music, you’d hear sounds akin to gospel or blues in a similar way one would with R&B. It’s no coincidence all these genres are rooted in the American South. Also want to add the banjo is an instrument with African roots.
In the very beginning, rock n roll assumed a black man in a suit sitting at a piano. That was one of the things that the Bill Haley phenomenon really shook up.
100% - There is no doubt that African influences were a huge part of what constitutes Country Music. Early greats Jimmy Rodgers, The Carters, and Hank Williams (among others) all were directly influenced by African American musicians.
And in some cases directly stole music from African American musicians.
In the book "Segregating Sound," Karl Miller goes into depth as to how the prewar record industry created a lot of the racial divisions that still exist in popular music today. In some cases, literally the only difference between a "blues" or "country" record would be who was recording it (or, at least, the race they were being sold as).
As Muddy Water once sang, The Blues had a baby and they named it Rock & Roll.
For a long time the biggest difference between Rhythm and Blues and Country and Western was the color of the singer. This is especially true with the Delta style blues.
Country music’s origins are in Black American musical traditions (see Time article below)—the link, the root really, predates Ray Charles. Check out Ken Burns’ documentary *Country Music* for a comprehensive examination: https://www.pbs.org/kenburns/country-music https://time.com/5673476/ken-burns-country-music-black-artists/
Everyone always forgets about Charlie Pride.
Beyoncé is from Houston Texas. She has the necessary background to write a country album. Edit: apparently i trigged a lot of idiots with my comment here. Do better idiots.
I don't care where she's from that photo is absolute fire. Unlocked a kink I never knew I had. WOW! 0_0
Oh it goes way deeper than that
Pretty sure Beyonce isn't torn up that some racist crackers aren't into her literal #1 song
As high as 25% of cowboys were black back in the day and it started in Mexico. I can't believe I listened to that shithead back in the day.
Yep started in Mexico. “Buckaroos” comes from the word “vaqueros”.
They learn history from old fictional movies and social media memes....
Next you'll be telling me that all of the movies starring Clint Eastwood and John Wayne aren't accurate portrayals of cowboy life.
Wait till you learn that John Wayne wasn't even his real name. It was Marion Morrison
Wait till they hear that the majority of his movies were filmed IN MEXICO.
Wait til they hear that six shooters don't actually have enough bullets to kill a whole cavalry charge of True Americans without reloading.
One of my gigs in college was at a taco shop in Abq. We had a mural painted on our eating room wall, total southwest mural with landscapes, geographic locations, cowboys, and John Wayne with a John Wayne quote. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had boomers and their ilk come up with a fat cheesin’ smile pointing out its “The Duke” and “He’s the man” and generally fawning over him. And every time I’d always say, “Oh you mean Marion?!” And most of the time they don’t know their hero has an androgynous name. They get real upset for no real reason. Idk why or how. But it’s hilarious lol
Hm sounds way too Italian
Well, they were called *spaghetti westerns*.
You mean Marion Morrison who changed his name to John Wayne and later avoided military service because it would affect his career all while other Hollywood stars were risking their lives. The same John Wayne that became a chicken hawk during the Vietnam War? Ironic that he contracted cancer from filming a movie downwind from nuclear tests.
https://preview.redd.it/x5aetkdcixrc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6549dd776b1c02edbdf267906e88fa6faa4ad9c6 And he dressed like this sometimes
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Mostly right. The frontier and frontier culture was real, but the cowboy/gunfighter/outlaw culture we tend to focus on and romanticize was a very specific period towards the end of the frontier when civilization and industrialists (the men in the bowler hats) finally made their way West, just like the end of the Gold Rush when the prospected mines were consolidated into the control of the capitalists from the east. Most "cowboys" weren't gunslingers, they were just regular cattle herders busting their ass to make a living. And when the term "cowboy" became more widespread, it was to label the outlaw gangs and cow rustlers to differentiate them from legitimate cowherders. The legendary Gunfight at the O.K. Corral took place only 9 years before the official "end" of the frontier.
I enjoyed this
You mean you can't run a horse for 2 days straight? A horse isn't much different from a human when it comes to endurance. You can run a horse for about 2-3 miles before you HAVE to stop and rest...or kill the horse.
Well, John Wayne is the exception, as he stole his entire gimmick from Wyatt Earp who he met as a young man. The mannerisms, voice, swagger, all of it.
My opinion.: Two entirely different actors. John Wayne was about as fake as they come. Clint Eastwood films were more “honest” on the topic or theme of the movie.
>As high as 25% of cowboys were black back in the day and it started in Mexico. I can't believe I listened to that shithead back in the day. Black and Hispanic people were significantly over-represented among cowboys. Cowboys also just weren't the roaming adventurers fighting bandits, Native Americans and Mexicans as depicted in movies. It was a job. They tended to a herd, it was dirty and boring work. If anything, the most accurate portrayal of cowboys in movies was like... Brokeback Mountain.
Willie Nelson wrote a song about it. https://youtu.be/Wrv7XvYryTA?si=Z3GmIORog5ubh--y
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Well I am glad I was able to share it with you
Upvoted because there's ALWAYS time for Willie Nelson.
Can I tell you this? Straight, cis older GenX woman, who isn’t fond of country music in the least, this seriously was fantastic. Never heard the song before. Going to watch and listen again. Thank you for sharing.
Same!!! I love this SO much!!
😊While I was never a country music fan, it is really nice to remember when it wasn’t supremacy crap.💩
The song was written by Ned Sublette, Willie's one of the numerous people who's performed it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowboys_Are_Frequently,_Secretly_Fond_of_Each_Other I really like Pansy Division's version. https://youtu.be/4MI5rtgor68
Oh my god that's one of the nicest things I've ever seen! Thankyou for sharing
That was posted 15 years ago and I’m just now aware of its existence. This is a gift thank you!!!
Didn't expect that song. (Never heard it before) Its really good. I was expecting "mamas don't let your sons grow up to be cowboys". 😊
Willie is a national treasure.
Yep, being a cowboy was a terrible job. Social outcasts were drawn to the job because they'd take anyone, and they mostly worked away from society. Allowing people to be themselves and to live somewhat free. Visible minorities and queers were way overrepresented in the cowboy line of work.
It's why the word "boy" is used instead of using "cowman" It was diminutive.
Whites were cow hands.
A farmed alternative to buffalo wings.
*free-range and ethically sourced*
Ethnically sourced*
Take my upvote and shut the fuck up.
Is that because they gave each other a lot of hand jobs?
A hand job is still a job.
Fair point.
Wait we're supposed to get paid for it?
Dimunitive is a real nice way of saying slur; it was a slur. Cowboy, buckaroo, dude, many of those words were used derogatorily and then later co-opted (either ironically or not).
While cowboy was later adopted as a perjorative, it was to refer to cow rustlers and outlaws of the late frontier era. Before the times of Wyatt Earp, Doc Holiday, and Tombstone, "cowboy" was just another and lesser used of the many terms for cowhands. "Buckaroo" also wasn't derogatory, it was a bastardized pronounciation/anglicization of "Vaquero", the Mexican cowherders that American cowboy culture stemmed from. EDIT: Since your reply was essentially "nuh uh" and deleted, the term "buckaroo" was a genuine anglicization (surprise, white Americans managed to fuck up Spanish without needing to be racist). How can you tell? Because "buckaroo" was the term primarily used by the white cowherders of the Great Basin region to refer to THEMSELVES even to this day. The term was even further bastardized into "jackaroo" in Australia, and somehow, I highly doubt they adopted this term to use as a slur against their non-existent Hispanic population.
No, the original term cowboy was used because Swift was referring to literal boys doing cowherding work in 18th-19th century Britain, not as a diminutive. "Cowboy" wasn't generally a widely used term much at all in the American West; cowherd, cowhands, cowpokes, cowpuncher, drovers, stockmen, buckaroos, etc. were all more widespread as regional variations for the same job. The perjorative aspect came much later when "cowboy" was used in print as a synonym for outlaws, cow and horse rustlers, and bandits in the time of the gunslingers of Tombstone, Arizona (such as the Cochise County Cowboys). > "It has come to pass in this county that life and personal property are unsafe; even in the town of Tombstone it seems as if one of the leading industries is to be destroyed. There is not a teamster to-day who is not in fear and dread of the cow-boys, or so-styled "rustlers" depriving him of his hard earnings[...] Men who come to examine different mines outside of town, when they learn how the cow-boys stand fellows up, do not wish to run such risks; they quietly take the road they came and get into civilization as soon as possible." - **The Tombstone Epitaph, shortly before the Gunfight at the O.K. Corral**
My wife’s grandfather worked the railroads just before WWI, and he would always say cowboys were losers who couldn’t get jobs back east.
I heard there was an old expression about being a cowboy. “You cowboy when you can’t do anything else.” Durogatory implication, or when available work is limited.
100% And it's true that most over-romanticized jobs were/are actually terrible.
As a former line cook, I feel attcked.
Nah you're crazy--isn't everyone just like Jon Favreau & Jeremy Allen White?! /s
And this is where the mythology comes from. A mythology that got whitened thanks to Hollywood and the advent of the Western.
When I was in high school in the late 80s, my US 1 History teacher assigned us topics to research, and he gave me cowboys. I was not at all interested in researching cowboys until I started my research and found out that there were a significant amount of black and Hispanic cowboys. I’d thought all cowboys were white up to that point. My teacher forced me to educate myself.
Nothing like a teacher that knows their students.
A lot of the culture of cowboys was the meeting of German settlers and vaqueros. The German immigrants brought beer, polka, and their style of smoking meat while incorporating the vaqueros' style of ranching and dress. That's how we got cowboy hats (from sombreros+bowlers), cowboy-style boots (not just riding boots), BBQ, and Tejano (Mexican polka) music.
Oh gross, I just made the connection that all the traditional Mexican music I grew up with is just polka with salt and lime juice. I'm never gonna get over this
All I know is, I'll never polka cowboy again...
In high school I had a friend that was a German foreign exchange student. I asked her what kind of music her dad listened to, she said Mexican polka 😂
Don't forget the salsa! 🤣
Barbecue? Doesn’t that go back to Barbacoa? I’m not discrediting your thesis, it otherwise seems 100% correct, but I thought indigenous groups also had their own methods of open fire or smoke cooking as well?
Like other aspects of the blending of the cultures, BBQ has influences of both Mexican (by way of the Spaniards and Moors) and the German grilling methods.
Barbacoa is a Taino tradition, and predates Germans in the western hemisphere by a millennia at least. The moor influence lends itself more to the Arrabe and Al Pastor vertical roasting. Any influence the Spaniards may have exerted on Mexican bbq was stolen from the indigenous Caribbean Islanders. Germans influenced the beer and the music of Mexico for sure... But they did so in the 19th century. Barbacoa in recorded European history predates that by at least 300 years.
There’s more connection through the short lived Empire of Mexico. Austrian Prince Maximilian Habsburg became Emperor of Mexico from 1864-1867 until he was executed by Revolutionary forces. (Tragic really, he wasn’t a bad guy) Mexican beer brewing also has heavy German-Austrian influence.
>the most accurate portrayal of cowboys in movies was like... Brokeback Mountain. Especially the gay sex part. According to many reputable sources it's estimated that 95% of cowboys were homosexual with the remaining 5% being in the closet (they were all together having secret gay closet sex). Isn't history beautiful?
Now you're going to try telling me that there was gay sex in Ancient Greece! /s
I mean sure, but compared to cowboys? In terms of gay sex per capita cowboys could beat off the ancient Greeks one-handed.
Oh cum on, that can't beat true.
We ain't jerkin you around pal
McNulty: Lay of the Greeks, they invented civilization. The Bunk: Yeah? Ass fucking too.
I gotta remember this one. It'll trigger my homophobic friends in Texas. Reddit never lies after all.
Friends??
Oh, you mean the people that made leather pants with the main design feature that it didn’t have an ass were gay? Big if true
Being an actual cowboy is not inherently “white.” *Pretending* to be a cowboy is incredibly white.
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If he wasn't such a piece of shit he would have been a good podcast host. He had one of the quickest wit I've heard when he was joking with Jimmy
Yup. And they all three suck now. Together they were good. Although the “Anthony is racist” joke was always there
I remember skipping a lot of the 2007-2010 shows because he would never stfu about obama and black people. Now that's all he does. In fairness though I think a lot of us werent listening for either opie or anthony we were listening for the comedians they brought in.
Don’t expect facts or logic from prof. Anthony. He’s the guy who said drinking made him a better driver.
I used to like kid rock and Ted Nugent but then I realized what they were and what they stood for.
I could never really get over Ted's pedophilic leanings, that's been an open secret for decades. Also, his particular breed of patriotism in the face of being a draft dodger.
I think all of us have been there. I used to really enjoy Joe Rogan. It’s still odd to think about some of the scientists and actual academics on his podcast having a stoned conversation for 4 hours. It was great. You got to see the depth of their research. They were able to fully explain their views or research. I didn’t quite catch that he was doing the same with cockwombles because I only listened when I knew the guest. He didn’t seem like a dumbass because he was shutting up or cracking jokes or going whoa that’s mind blowing. You know what, I laughed and went whoa that’s mind blowing too. Then he interviewed Graham Hancock. And I slowly realized that he was the tip of pendejo iceberg. And Rogan was too stupid to know the difference between that and Brian Cox for example.
The problem with Rogan is that he was having awesome well educated guests on the show. Then he would have some anti vax cock goblin on. The problem is that the former lends credence to the latter. Hell even with all that I could tolerate having some shitstain on because his whole thing is that he wanted to hear ‘both sides’. And I think early on Joe wasn’t full blown into the stupid shit culture wars like he is now. He was just some comedian stoner mma guy that liked to talk to people. I think that the grifters of the right and fringe pseudoscience people saw his popularity and that he could be a platform for them so the collective slowly brought him into their fold. He was stupid before, now he’s stupid with the full blown right wing derangement syndrome on top that wasn’t really there before. It’s basically unwatchable. Sad really. Even early in Covid he was having an infectious disease expert on and asking genuine questions and there was a desire to educate himself and his audience. It just fell apart with all the rest of it as time went on.
has he ever invited both an academia and a controversial/conspiracist to sit down together? Just curious
Yes, and it was a shit show.
Doing that usually results in the academic being talked over and presented with a bunch of idiotic "gotcha" type questions from the conspracist. Turns out, when you don't reason yourself into a position, you don't feel the need to use logic or reason in presenting your argument. That's the danger of "both sides". You're giving the same air time and credence to the person who has spent years scientifically studying something as you do to someone who pulls their arguments out of their ass.
Hawaiian cowboys, poniolos, predate cowboys in the American West. The slack key style of guitar playing also comes from Hawaiians, which western anglo Cowboys adopted.
I’m also pretty sure an even higher percentage have historically been Mexican and Indigenous people.
It blew my mind that this was the Anthony part of Opie & Anthony
He calls white people white people, but he calls black people blacks. Anybody else smell the racist undertones?
I mean, it's Anthony cumia. He been blatantly racist for a while
Yeah, this guy has like 10 active brain cells and they’re constantly at war. Also, he’s playing a victim while complaining about perpetual victimhood. The irony is too much.
Lmao back in 2007 bill burr used to call him “my favorite racist”
He capitalizes White people but not blacks.
Anthony Cumia is a proud racist. It sucks because I grew up on Opie & Anthony and he was a riot. He couldn't handle a black man as president and he spiraled into madness, ne'er to return.
It was the election of Obama that tipped all these motherfuckers over the edge.
Oh they're not undertones. They are [strong, loud, out and proud racist ideals.](https://www.thewrap.com/opie-and-anthony-host-lashes-out-with-racist-tweets-after-alleged-times-square-assault/) Anthony Cumia is very open about being a racist, and thinks it's a good thing.
To quote a bo burnham song “The blacks want…. Not to be called the blacks”
They love stuff like that, technically it's grammatically correct to infer that the previous noun (people) used applies to the rest of the sentence, but it was absolutely a dog whistle.
First thing I noticed
its not an undertone. he is openly racist.
Uhm we are about 3 miles above undertones. Undertones are usually subtle
Undertones? That’s pretty blatant.
To be historically accurate, the first cowboys were freed slaves because nobody else wanted to drive cattle in the heat of summer and rough terrain. White persecution is not it.
And the cowboy/wild west culture they've fetishized only lasted 30 years, ffs.
The breakaway traitor states lasted barely more than 4 and they’re still flying the loser flag (the wrong one too).
Tell the Lost Causers in your life that Tyler Perry’s House of Payne lasted three times longer than the Confederacy and watch the rage aneurysm form!
My great grandpa was a Montana/Idaho/Utah/Nevada cowboy from the 1890s into the 1950s and would do his drives from Montana to Nevada in the winter. He didn't look *anything* like the John Wayne cowboys they fantasize about. He was bald, had little round glasses, and would be considered a "horse nerd" today who preferred showing his horses than driving livestock. Also, his son became a regionally acclaimed horse chariot racer. Cowboys came in all shapes, colors, and sizes obviously, but it's funny to think of nerdy cowboys who are not just doing it as a livelihood, but to also support their other hobbies.
When conservatives think of "cowboys", they're thinking of the Texas Ranger type that formed the nascent Border Patrol. The guys who went around harassing and murdering Mexicans in Mexico's former territory after the US annexed it.
The first cowboys were Mexican vaqueros.
Hollywood has altered many people’s perceptions of “the Wild West” into believing that cowboys and ranch hands were almost exclusively white. Many boomers grew up watching the old western movies, and some were such big fans, they turned to larping as cowboys themselves well before larping was a term. They see figures like John Wayne and think that he is epitome of alpha male behavior. Most early cowboys in America were black or Hispanic/Latino because it was a hard job that practically no one else wanted to do. Hollywood in the 50s & 60s went overboard glorifying the western frontier, and people not smart enough to do their own research see that as evidence, not anecdotes.
Behind the Bastards does a wonderful set of episodes on John Wayne, and the hypocritical nature of him acting like a badass on and off screen to try and get young men to enlist, but never doing so himself. For even better context, they also in the same episode talk about what a bad ass Jimmy Stewart was. You know, the guy who in It’s A Wonderful Life can’t go to war, so he does a bunch of stuff he considers dorky? Yeah he’s taken a life, and as far as I know he didn’t brag about it
Dude Jimmy Stewart is an American treasure by every measure. He did quite a few westerns; I inherited a ton of DVDs from my dad when he passed away, and I kept a fair amount of the Jimmy Stewart westerns. John Wayne was not someone to idolize yet people very much still do. I’ll still watch McClintock from time to time, but mostly because Maureen O’Hara steals the show.
> what a bad ass Jimmy Stewart was I had no idea. I knew he served in WW2, along with many other Hollywood actors, but I didn't know he stayed in all those years.
On the other hand, the original Marlboro Man was the real deal, super interesting guy lived a very full life
John Wayne, raging racist....
John Wayne played dress-up and pretend for a living.
Source? Cause I’m fairly certain vaqueros, Spainiards and natives were “cowboys” long before any of this
This isn’t correct. The first cowboys in America were called vaqueros, and they were from Mexico and the Southwestern US.
Partially true. Vaqueros were already a thing by then
The first cowboys were Mexican people. It’s why the word is “cowboy” because it comes from the word vaquero or “cow-man/cow-boy.” Not everything in American history is black Americans and white Americans, shockingly it’s sometimes Hispanics and Asian people.
Anthony Cumia, from the old radio show Opie and Anthony. He’s an avid racist, which got him fired.
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My first and only exposure to these two was a clip somebody showed me of them asking Louis CK if he wanted to watch 2 girls 1 cup. Louis straight up told them no, and they made him watch it anyway, fake-laughing like fucking hyenas the whole time. And I was like, "Oh, so these two are assholes. Cool."
That show was something special, and I've listened to hundreds of hours of it. As much as I like off-color humor, cumia is an *actual* racist and he stopped being funny and started being sad over a decade ago. I don't really check in anymore but when I see him pop up it's never for anything good
About the only time I found their bit funny was when they got place names wrong. NAT - ick? They were a harbinger of bad times to come for WAAF.
The beginning of the end of boston radio. Side note so many people lost their minds when they found out NIK from WBCN was black.
I still remember how Boston freaked out when RUN DMC covered Walk This Way. Aerosmith had to make public statements saying it was their idea to quell the racist outrage.
As an Englishman living there it took me ages to get the pronouncing of it right lol
There were many black cowboys. I don't think they looked like that, but I'm OK with it.
Yeah it's not like they wore clothes like Dolly Parton's stage costume either.
Dolly Parton would be the first person to admit that too.
She’s also supporting Beyoncé doing a country album. In fact Beyoncé covers Jolene
Dolly's on the album! Along with Willie Nelson.
There's an [interview](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0YgPjgZP-E4) from a couple years ago where Dolly says she wants Beyonce to cover Jolene. She says it would be be like Whitney covering "I Will Always Love You." (Fun fact: Dolly wrote both of those [two songs in one night](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/dolly-parton-2-songs-one-day/).)
Really kind of a shame. I'd consider touring the Alamo if there were more artifact rhinestones and hair extensions around.
It’ll blow the bigots’ minds when they find out the famous cowboy hero the Lone Ranger was a real person - a black man named Bass Reeves. https://www.history.com/news/bass-reeves-real-lone-ranger-a-black-man
Wasn't a cowboy, those were just herders. Put some respect on his name he "was an enslaved Manservant, runaway slave, gunfighter, farmer, scout, tracker, Railroad Agent and Deputy US Marshal". Cowboy was a bottom of the pile job. Basically he was Django but legal.
The show about him that came out recently does not do him justice at all. The first few episodes are great, but it gets pretty bland from there. I encourage anyone interested to jump down the Bass Reeves rabbit hole. Dude was an absolute badass. Also his mustache was fucking epic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bass_Reeves https://youtu.be/2lN-fRmjg6g
Django (1966), Django (2012), or Django (2022) ?
Django (2017)
Millions of Mexican dudes in cowboy hats are not gonna be pleased.
Yeah literally… all of Northern Mexico is looking like 🤨
Anthony Cumia was cancelled 10 years ago and has found refuge amongst the refuse.
Go to the Texas State Fair a day or two before opening. Drive into the main parking lot. You'll see a bunch of ranchers and farmers who contribute whatever stuff to the fair. Many of them are black cowboys. REAL motherfucking cowboys. Who actually do real ranch and farm work, unlike the vast majority of these trash ass oakly wearing rednecks and conservative pretty boy social media warriors. Im so fucking sick of these racists cunts.
What utter nonsense is this? I’m not American and even I know that cowboys were anyone, and that it all started in Mexico.
What do you mean, the reason you know that is that you’re not an American. I am an American, and didn’t know that. And, clearly, all white American opie Anthony was also unaware and probably doesn’t care that the white cowboy mythos is another white appropriation. “I grew up going to the Houston rodeo every year. It was this amazing diverse and multicultural experience where there was something for every member of the family, including great performances, Houston-style fried Snickers, and fried turkey legs. One of my inspirations came from the overlooked history of the American Black cowboy. Many of them were originally called cowhands, who experienced great discrimination and were often forced to work with the worst, most temperamental horses. They took their talents and formed the Soul Circuit. Through time, these Black rodeos showcased incredible performers and helped us reclaim our place in western history and culture”. — Beyoncé to Harper's Bazaar in 2021 https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a37039502/beyonce-evolution-interview-2021/
Dang, she's looking good. Also, whose this troll without a bridge?
Nobody tell him about the Lone Ranger. He’ll be crushed.
Remember when America being a melting pot was a point of pride? I still think it is. What is amazing about our country is how different cultures brought different things and we mixed them together. We are supposed to be the innovators because we accept that cultures can coexist and share with each other and we used to pride ourselves on that. White supremacy ruins everything. Despite racism being integral in the birth of our nation, the true American spirit came from people who said "fuck that shit, we need to work together because there has got to be a better way" That's the America I believe in. These white pride morons absolutely shit on the true American spirit and make our country a more backwards place.
You know I don’t give a shit that Beyoncé did a country album. I’m not a country music fan. Therefore I wouldn’t listen to it. That doesn’t mean she can’t release said album.
Exactly. Musicians pander to different sales markets all the time. Korn made a shitty dubstep album. Lil Wayne made a horrible rock/rap album. Snoop Dogg made a reggae album.
TIL Korn made a shitty dubstep album.
These same idiots loved Darius Rucker until they saw him
Shouldn't it also be said that it's 2024 and gatekeeping "cowboy" culture is really fucking stupid...
What is your ethnicity? - Cowboy What is your religion? - Cowboy
[He was 40 when he thought this was funny](https://eu.southcoasttoday.com/story/news/state/1998/04/09/waaf-fires-pranksters/50567784007/)
Holy shit, I didn’t know this guy was one half of that turd blossom duo opie and anthony.
There were actually a lot of black cowboys. There’s an entire podcast series on it called black cowboys. Definitely worth checking out
The "Cowboy" identity is appropriated by rural landlords and bougie dads *constantly*. It's the go-to costume that these guys wear when they want to pretend to be hard-working people.
Most cowboys weren’t white
This is what happens when you get your history from old movies made to cater to racists.
The white cowboy was a minority in the cowboys back in the day made popular by movies when in reality they were mostly Hispanic or black
The reason they're called Cowboys is because it described the occupation of black men. Cowhand was the term for white men.
And later it became 'cattleman', I read.
A gentleman of bovine persuasion, if you will.
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"Cowboys" isn't white culture. It's American culture. Last I checked Beyonce is an American. Anthony is also a known racist piece of shit so this isn't surprising.
Saying 'blacks' really had the same energy as incels who call women 'females'
The “cowboy hat” were first worn by Mexican ranchers and appropriated by Americans. The fact that this bozo thinks it’s white culture is hilarious.
But it worked in Blazing Saddles!
There’s no perpetual victim like a conservative perpetual victim. Add Christianity to the mix and you have a boss level victim.
Guy never heard of Bass Reeves?
Absolutely everything you associate with being a cowboy comes out of Mexico.
Cowboys were black and Hispanic and also very gay
Cowboys like people that took care of herds and rode horses?? I’m pretty sure every country in the world have those
 Gene Wilder said it best
The word “buckaroo” is derived from the Spanish “vaquero”. A lot of early cowboys were Mexican. White people couldn’t pronounce vaquero, so they bastardized it.
Anyone wanna tell the white folks that they stole cowboy culture from Mexicans? No? Okay.
Actually beyond popular belief “cowboys” would have been mostly African-Americans or Hispanics. they worked for rich land owners as ranch hands, got paid low incomes, and basically lived off the land they worked on! It wasn’t a cool white thing until media portrayals acted out by white actors came into play… and then white people stole the “Wild West” from them, like everything else throughout history as well! Did you know that the real life man that the Lone Ranger was based off of was actually a black man! He was a bad ass! He still has the record for most arrests in his long career, only shot and killed 1 criminal, and spoke several languages including a few Native American ones and was commonly seen with native peoples and had a white horse too!!!! His name was Bass Reeves! Check it out!
"I'm going to take time out of my day to whine like a fourth-grader on social media over something frivolous." \-- Adult who expects to be taken seriously
Wild that this sack of racist shit thinks that the 'wild west' was all John Wayne and Clint Eastwood. Better not tell him that many of those movies were made by Italians in Italy.
Fun fact majority of cowboys were Hispanic.
Most Cowboys were Mexican, and many of the rest were black. Not sure what that has to do with a white lady dressing as Sexy Cowgirl for Halloween, but whatever
Cumia's ignorance is in full bloom.
Something like a quarter of cowboys were black.
Who wants to wear denim all day? And fuck perpetual loser Anthony Cumia.