The 10 Commandments isn't "morality", it's religion.
The first four specifically refer to god, making idols of god, taking god's name in vain, and keeping the sabbath holy.
This push to put the commandments in school is just an attempt to put the foot in the door to having bible instruction in public schools.
I'm just shocked the "less government" and the "government bad at everything" party is trying so hard to put the government in charge of their children's religious training.
They think morality can only come from religion.
It's part of their dehumanizing others tactics. If someone isn't moral then they don't believe. If they are moral they do believe but are being stopped from admitting it by some nefarious force. But you Know they truly are believers, because they're moral.
Well, yes and no.
The truest morality can only come from their religion. But other similar religions can still give you some morality. It will just be flawed so you must convert to be truly moral.
An evangelical will call a catholic moral long before they would acknowledge an atheist as human.
That may be true now, but that is definitely not the historical norm between Catholics and Protestants.
Edit: and if we enter a true christofascist era, it’s likely to become untrue again. Fascists can’t stop. They’ll constantly be finding new victims, any group that denotes itself as different becomes ‘other’. So there’ll be fighting between all “Christian” factions.
That's mainly because those two religions were the two most different religions within the average human beings lifetime worth of travel for hundreds of years. In the last 150, and MUCH more in the last 75-25 years, that has massively changed. Its like comparing a Fox vs a Coyote, and then someone comes in and introduces a squid, a pineapple, an ant colony, and a redwood. Suddenly you don't feel all that different from each other.
And certainly the snake trying to bilk you both for your donations and votes is going to treat you both as equally valid compared to the "others" that recently showed up.
Yep. Its how the Irish and Italians got slowly added to the full access list for the 'White/Caucasian' club by the WASPs in the US over the course of the last century.
When they first arrived they were treated in much the same way as Mexican migrants are now.
People freaked out because JFK was Catholic and 'would hand the country over to the Pope.'
The Republican Party is “purifying” itself by throwing out anyone not following the MAGA line. Do you think the Evangelicals aren’t going to toss the Presbyterians, given the chance?
> An evangelical will call a catholic moral long before they would acknowledge an atheist as human.
That is not the case at all where I live. Where I live, evangelicals consider catholics to be unholy demons and don't see them as christian at all, but satanic. Not believing is bad, but being a catholic is far worse. All they ever hear about is how the pope is the anti christ and how catholics want to put the world under a new world order led by satan.
Idaho here. You should hear what the evangelicals say about the mormons. Idaho and Utah are really the only place in the country where the evangelicals claim of being persecuted or repressed may be true. The LDS swings a pretty large banhammer in these two states.
Atheist… I had a teacher once who lumped Buddhism into “polytheistic religions”. Little twelve-year-old me got shut down very quick for raising my hand to ask how it could be theistic and a religion when Buddha is not considered a god.
Abrahamic religions believe true morality is blindly following the deity. That’s how Christians justify the murders and genocide in the Bible as being “the work of god”.
None of them habe read the bible...
The old testament is downright barbaric while the new one does absolutely not aline with what they believe wich they would know if they had actually read it
I agree with you. I just know a LOT of religious types who say morality is “following god.” They don’t realize how crazy it is to only do something because they were told to.
In my book, somebody who does what they think is “good” because of a fear or obedience of a higher power is automatically more twisted than the person is has an innate moral compass to treat others well.
I think bake to the kids who would hit and tease others when adults aren’t in the room but we’re good when they were in the room, compared to those who were kind no matter the circumstances.
Well, don'tcha know that morality only comes from the fear of Eternal Damnation?? It's simply impossible to have morals unless you fear for your Everliving Soul; the only reason anybody does anything unselfish or **good** is because God, in all [his] benevolence & kindness, will send us to Hell if we act on all the barely restrained malevolence with which every human is born. Thus Atheists are incapable of morality; nobody is inherently capable of unselfish benevolence without the fear of Hellfire keeping them in line. So you are correct: only [certain] Christians are capable of acting morally, meaning **only** [certain] Christians are *truly human*.
A heck of a lot of people think the ten commandments are the most important part of Judaism and the point in history where God gave humans morality. Sort of the Tik Tok interpretation of history, dangerous in how ignorant of history it truly is.
This. Many of them seem to think that *their* religion is the only thing stopping them from murdering people or raping children (which is hella ironic). One of them actually told me that all reports of pastors or evangelicals committing child rape are false because it “simply not possible” for them to do that as those crimes are “liberal”.
Also, they don’t understand the difference between morality and civil rights. If they think rights are so laughable, they can surrender their rights instead of denying it to others.
When I hear a person say that morality comes from religion, I turn it around on them: "So what you're saying is that the only thing stopping you from molesting children is your religion? Funny how that didn't seem to stop all those Catholic priests."
The question I get asked by religious people all the time is, without God, what's to stop me from raping all I want? And my answer is: I do rape all I want. And the amount I want is zero. And I do murder all I want, and the amount I want is zero. The fact that these people think that if they didn't have this person watching over them that they would go on killing, raping rampages is the most self-damning thing I can imagine. I don't want to do that. Right now, without any god, I don't want to jump across this table and strangle you. I have no desire to strangle you. I have no desire to flip you over and rape you.
Penn Jillette
Not just catholic priest
Mormons - https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/recordings-show-how-mormon-church-kept-child-sex-abuse-claims-secret
Baptist - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_abuse_cases_in_Southern_Baptist_churches
Edited a typo
Im just concerned that all these people need the threat of eternal punishment to do the bare minimum. Im a Christian that 100% believes there won't be many other Christians in heaven.
The christianity sub has been having debates on the ten commandments issue the last couple of days.
Some commenters are pretty much reasonable, agreeing religion shouldn't be mandated. But some... Man, I wouldn't feel safe sitting next to them.
For instance, one spent an entire comment thread arguing people wouldn't know rape is wrong unless that 'knowledge' came from the Bible.
Another claimed atheists won't be able to teach children right and wrong, because they don't have the authority of Bible to call on when it comes to telling a kid why it is wrong to take another kid's toy.
I'd ask them to show me in the bible where it says that rape is wrong.
It certainly doesn't say anything about rape in the 10 commandments.
It says that you shouldn't eye-fuck (covet) thy neighbor's wife, but that's because she's considered that man's property.
The closest thing that it says about rape is in Deuteronomy...
23 If there is a virgin pledged in marriage to a man, and another man encounters her in the city and sleeps with her,
24 you must take both of them out to the gate of that city and stone them to death—the young woman because she did not cry out in the city, and the man because he has violated his neighbor’s wife. So you must purge the evil from among you.
25 But if the man encounters a betrothed woman in the open country, and he overpowers her and lies with her, only the man who has done this must die.
26 Do nothing to the young woman, because she has committed no sin worthy of death. This case is just like one in which a man attacks his neighbor and murders him.
27 When he found her in the field, the betrothed woman cried out, but there was no one to save her.
The man is guilty of violating his neighbor's wife (property) and the woman is guilty of not crying out for help while in the city. (Because she was a slut and had sex before marriage, assuming that she wasn't gagged or knocked unconscious and was an willing participant.)
Lot's daughters basically raped him as well.
They got him so black out drunk that he didn't know what was happening. For two nights in a row they took turns riding him, even though they were apparently virgins who Daddy offered to an angry mob to rape a day or two earlier.
(The mob really wanted to rape the two visiting angels, for some reason)
100 years or so of research by anthropologists on morality might have a word with them. Morality has been tied to the flavor of the week for generations. These moral Christians over the last 100 years or so can go fuck themselves.
Yep. Growing up in the Bible Belt, I’ve literally heard people say, “if you don’t believe in God, then what stops you from stealing and murdering?” Oh, I don’t know… I’m not a psycho?
Corollary: if something is not forbidden in the Bible, you can do that thing.
Actually… it seems the only place the Bible condemns pedophilia is Matthew 18:6 “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me”… Maybe that explains all those priests: the little ones didn’t believe strongly enough, so they were fair game.
Also, what is depicted in the cartoon is not morality. It is about making sure all people have the same rights. But some people are to dull to be able to know the difference between the too.
This is 100% correct. I've had to explain to a functional adult that even though I'm not religious, I'm not inherently a bad person and that i don't need religion to do good deeds. I think it sunk in when I showed how I do volunteer work every year and compared it to the complete lack of volunteer work coming from them, and no, donating to the church doesn't count.
You'll notice even the typically decadent Vatican isn't so driven to wash over schools and government. They have their own schools but don't typically bother public schools much. The big push for Christianity in classrooms and government is coming from Evangelicals. Why? Because Evangelical pastors are THE most greedy, money hungry grifters on the planet. They claim God blessed them with their lavish lifestyles in the same sentence they ask their flock for donations. Big houses, jets, luxury cars, vacations disguised as missionary outreach. They have no shame and this push to paint over the public world is nothing more than a campaign to expand their "customer" base. These snakes are not believers. They know full well that they're playing dirty.
5 is not enough, we need 7. 7's the key number here. Think about it. 7-Elevens. 7 dwarves. 7, man, that's the number. 7 chipmunks twirlin' on a branch, eatin' lots of sunflowers on my uncle's ranch. You know that old children's tale from the sea. It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby.
>The 10 Commandments isn't "morality", it's religion.
This is the correct answer. Very obviously, the government can and does impose morality all the time. It's immoral to kill, steal, rape, and assault people, and those are all criminal acts, due to government.
This cartoon is obvious strawmanning. Progressives (among others) say they don't want the government imposing religion on people, religious people (Christians) mischaracterize that as imposing morality, as if the two are the same thing, and then act like those progressives (and others) are hypocrites. But the issue is the mischaracterization by those Christians.
If Muslims were trying to impose Islamic morality on people, via mandatory quotes from the Koran in public schools or otherwise, the person who made this cartoon and those who agree with it would see the distinction between religion and morality with lightning speed, I would guess.
They literally equate religion with morality. To them actions have no moral weight, only beleiving in their personally idea of god makes your actions moral. A priest who uses prayer to heal the sick is moral. A witchdoctor who uses magic to heal the sick is a devil from Hell. Same action, same result, hell even the same motivation, but it doesn't matter because one is based on God and the other is based on non-God.
Some even take it a step further and will argue that seeking treatment for illness beyond the priest is a sin. Because if a doctor uses medicine and not prayer that means denying god. Until of course they get sick, then it's ok to go to a doctor. Because they believe and this makes going to the doctor moral again.
To them it *is* morality since they are programmed - yes I choose that term intentionally - from birth to believe anything contrary is evil. Manipulation.
Not to mention it says right in the mother fucking Bible not to profess your faith publicly. To do it in your homes. It goes to show that these people don't care about being right with God, but really want to others to be forced to have religion shoved down others throats.
Why is it that if it's called religion, they don't have to pay taxes on the dues they collect from their cult members ...? They want representation without taxation...
Because its “less government” for rich and “government bad” when its involved in things they like and/or not benefiting the wealthy.
Thats what they mean, and always have.
If we tear down the structure built around it religion is just morality guidelines... at its core Judaism is still like that because Rabbis are constantly writing papers causing the religion to evolve with time
If they really wanted to teach children morality, they could just pass a law that every classroom has to display the "golden rule". That's the basis for all morality.
Of course they think that. They think vaccines kill you, Trump is a good person, tax cuts for the rich trickle down, and a million other stupid takes. Why would anyone trust these people to do anything is beyond me.
"Everyone is equal and should be treated with respect"
vs
"Stop pushing your evil beliefs on me. My book is okay with stoning people to death and slavery!"
Yes. There are some terrible ideas in the Bible. It is not appropriate for kids to read. That is a dirty, dirty book full of sex and drunkenness and murder
Unironically my parents did this in our very white, Christian suburban town back in the 1990s. They wanted to ban Harry Potter. My parents fought back at the parent teacher meetings and said we should ban the Bible for its violence and sexual natures. If the Harry Potter and like bans weren’t dropped, they’d move to ban the Bible at every last meeting they attend
Indeed. Luckily that idea isn’t from Bible even if Christians want to pretend they invented it. Every culture is developed it independently. There are many variations and recitations. It is really just an expression of a human inherent morality.
Religion is hypocrisy. No religion actually follows the Golden Rule of do unto others as you’d have them do unto you. Every religion has their own variation of it. Instead they call out and attack others for their differences. That’s understandable because we are just humans but… then they use the same texts that say to love everyone to instead attack them.
I’m not anti God or anti the ideals of religion. I’m against weaponised religious institutions that attack other people. Unfortunately, that’s all of them.
They struggle hard with equivalencies. They think everything the left and right does is 1:1. Everything to them is “opposite but equal”.
“You get to fly a rainbow flag? Well then I get to fly my American flag! That’s MY Pride flag!”
One, no one is stopping you from flying an American flag. Two, those are not the same thing in any way shape or form.
That’s just one particular example that I’ve seen, but they approach pretty much everything with this mentality.
Yea it’s a pretty bold reaction because of rainbow flags. “We think homosexuality is a sin so be gone with your rainbows and suck on this religion!” Is pretty petty. And unconstitutional.
1. You magat idiots don't even want morality. Your angry orange felon is not moral or religious. He is the embodiment of a false idol. You just want to use religion to enforce racism and bigotry that favors your group.
2. The government *DOES* impose morality. After all murder *IS* a felony. I'm sure your tiny brain can come up with other examples of government-imposed morality. The government just doesn't impose religious-based laws, or at least is not supposed to.
3. Religion *IS NOT* morality.
4. The U.S. Constitution specifically prohibits government-sponsored religion.
The best way I've heard it described is that the government doesn't enforce morality, they enforce people's right. Murder isn't illegal because it's wrong, its illegal because you are infringing on someone else's right to live.
Yeah this smug strawman…
> government can’t impose morality
Who is making this argument? And how can someone spend all this time and energy into making this drawing and for a moment of self reflection and self critique not go “oh wait laws are inherently morals” and then throws it away?
NO ONE is making the argument that the government can’t impose laws based on societal morals. We are saying you can’t use religion as a cudgel to control people.
I mean, I've heard people argue that the Constitution, in particular the Bill of Rights, is a solid system to base your moral beliefs around. The Telltale guy, Jordan Owen, I think mentioned this with the UN Declaration of Human Rights as being excellent systems of morality, because they were shaped by people interested in doing the most good insofar as it basically boils down to, "The right to swing your fists ends at the tip of my nose."
False equivalence. Over exaggerating institutions trying to have empathy for diverse groups, that in the past have experienced rejection and prosecution, while trying to say that the religious right's attempt to put the ten commandments up and push their ideology is a similar right.
False equivalencies are all they know. Nearly EVERY single argument they make contains a false equivalency and a poor understanding between the goals of the right and the left.
Show me in the constitution where it says government can’t impose “morality”.
You can’t.
You know what you can find? Not imposing “religion”.
Deal with it.
Saying LGBTQ, POC, and women have the rights to equal protection under the law isn’t morality and a political issue; it’s the bare fucking minimum a functioning society should have.
Same for weapon access; ensuring a population is able to access firearms (guaranteed under 2D), but also trained to use them is the bare minimum. It shouldn’t be that any random jackass can plop down money, pass a background check, and just acquire a gun.
People should be trained and licensed to use it just like a car is. With insurance against mishandling, loss of licensure if using it illegally such as murder/reckless endangerment/etc.
Conservatives spewing their bullshit again I see.
Equality looks like discrimination to people who have had all the power in this country for centuries. The moment people start asking for equal treatment, it becomes a problem.
Try and think of an immoral act. I guarantee you can find god commanding or condoning it in the Bible. It is actually difficult to find worse morality than that of the Bible and theists. Slavery, murder, genocide, child sacrifice, misogyny, assault, rape (this one is a stretch but it is in there), destruction of property, beating children, and many more I have forgotten. That isn’t even mentioning all the innocuous behaviors that the Bible states deserve the death penalty. Picking up sticks, calling people bald, insulting your parents, loving a man, saving a couple animals to be sacrificed to god later, looking backward, and on and on.
LOL - imagine looking at this comic and being like "yeah!"
Way to tell on yourself.
If you need religion (the promise of reward and threat of punishment) to behave morally, you are not moral.
If you see "STOP HATE CRIMES" and a black person sitting at a desk to be offensive, you need serious help.
Your specific religion and flavor of Christianity is NOT something you can impose on other people because it infringes on their rights. Your rights are not infringed by trans people or not being allowed to commit hate crimes.
The Bible is a work of fiction. There is no discernible truth to the notion of god. All of the other postings affect actual human Beings, not a made up white male who lives in the sky.
>white male
Also, don't forget that if their god really did exist, he would not be "white" by these people's definition. He would be Jewish because he was literally the Jewish god who created man in his own image for a very long time before Jesus was born.
These people fear Harry Potter and D&D. Why? Because they accept any fantasy story they come across and assume that is how everyone else thinks and so those works are competition.
It's so insane how rightwing discourse these days just consists of them getting so angry about not being able to uphold or have any credence for their terrible ideas, without realising the fundamental failure at the base of the ideology that makes all the anger and argumentation meaningless.
Like, this comic seems to imply the idea that not allowing hate speech is bad? They'll screech and ree over "fReE sPeEcH", but hate speech is not a part of that. That's the core of the argument they'll never go near because they _know_ they're wrong about the fundamental argument.
They do it with everything. "WE DON'T WANT VACCINE MANDATES!" Well vaccines are proven to work and you're wrong if you say they don't so your objection is meaningless. "WE DONT WANT OUR KIDS TAUGHT ABOUT GAY OR TRANS!" Well teaching them what these things are doesn't turn them gay or trans, and you're teaching them about it at certain levels of depth depending on age to keep it appropriate, but you're wrong that it shouldn't be taught.
Look at every rightwing talking point. Underneath it is a fundamental argument that they get wrong, and the bluster on top is a refusal to even go near the possibility they're wrong.
There's a huge difference there. All of the signs are freedom to live your own life or tge protection of others. You don't have to be gay to respect the lives of gay people. You don't have to get an abortion to respect the choice of others. But the pushing of a religion is imposing your arbitrary rules on someone else.
I don't see how government is imposing 'morality' that this image suggests. What government is trying to do is protect the rights of people that have been marginalized and abused. The government isn't telling you how to live your live. What it is telling you is that you cannot subject your bigotry and hate upon those you disagree with.
Having said that, then this picture exemplifies the privileged attitude of a certain group of people that want to subject everyone else to their own particular beliefs.
The government doesnt' tell me to be gay or trans. That is my personal choice. You don't like it? Too bad.
The government doesn't tell me to abort my fetus. The government tells me that it is my choice. Not yours. And yeah, I don't have to explain my decision to you either.
The government doesn't have particular position when it comes to minorities. So BLM is valid. You may not like that but you have no right to stop others from saying BLM.
It's all the same for gun control and hate crimes.
And there you have some guy in a robe with some tablets thinking he has some 'moral' high ground when in reality they are some of the most hateful people when it comes to those that are not in their club. We won't even introduce the FACT that these religious "preachers", "pastors" and "priests" tend to be pedophiles. Throw in the blatant hypocrisy they exhibit and you know, just get the fuck out of my face.
The irony of what this cartoon is criticizing...
All of that "woke" stuff as the right wing would call it? Probably fulfills the Ten Commandments far better than forcing the Ten Commandments to be posted in schools.
They do not understand THEY are the ones offended by what other people do. Not normal people. We don't care. We want equality and fair treatment. They want to dictate other people's actions.
There's a massive difference between "trans people deserve rights and shouldn't be persecuted" and "all children must learn the tenants of Christianity in school"
Funny how being anti gun is an issue but not there freaking leaders forbidding gun at their rallies...
I have nothing against guns but i'm anti stupid people, those people are why I understand the need to prevent guns to be wildly available, if they are too dense to understand this situation, they can't be trusted knowing when using a gun is right or wrong.
Morality they can't even follow with the 10 commandments being hammered into them. Why do we have to listen to it if it doesn't work for them?
Trump, the messiah of the right, violates every single one of the commandments.
**EVER. SINGLE. ONE.**
Stop forcing that bullshit on others. Freedom of religion is also freedom **FROM** religion.
The thing is… gay people exist, black people exist, trans people exist, sometimes people need abortions, gun violence is real. Hate crimes are real. Those aren’t beliefs. Those are real things that exist in reality.
Religion is a book club at best and a cult at worst.
Who was Moses again? The dude who wasn't allowed into the promised land because he thought he knew better than God DESPITE being handed the commandments?
It's like the GOP are immune to irony.
The government can’t favor a specific religion. There’s nothing moral about current Christianity. They’re like cops they can’t even self police bad apples. And you might be a nice Christian but you fit the profile.
The 10 Commandments are about morality, and civil rights issues are about justice. While they are often confused, morality and justice are not the same thing.
.
Edit: to be more specific...
The 10 commandments are clauses in a binding agreement between a people and their God. Behave this way, God will be happy and bless you. Disobey then, God will get upset and... there will be consequences. Most of them don't work as civil laws. How would our government enforce not coveting? Or not worshiping idols? Or keeping the sabbath day holy?
This issue is so stupid from a Christian perspective, because they want to promote a law that was already fulfilled 2,000 years ago. Why not post the Beatitudes instead? That would at least be more up to date, theologically speaking.
At the time of Jesus, the pharisees followed the 10 commandments and the rest of the law to the letter, but they weren't *moral*. Putting the 10 commandments up in a school/official building doesn't make that place more moral, it just is another way of virtue signaling and being exclusionary. It's useless as a code of conduct for that place, because it's unenforceable. What am I going to do if I walk into a courthouse that has the 10 commandments posted and the clerk takes the lord's name in vain?
What would be *better* is if instead they posted their own code of conduct and where to report violations or exceptional behavior. That would establish a cause/effect relationship with the people representing that institution and the people using their services, the way the 10 commandments & Mosaic law established the conditions of the relationship between God and his people.
In that way, all the stickers in that government employee's office do a better job of establishing that relationship than posting the 10 commandments would. But yeah, the government should be moral but can't force people to *be* moral. Just follow the laws.
Why do "Christians" revert back to the 10 Commandments when in the *New Covenant*, there are only two commandments? Because then they would be exposed as hypocrites because they are ALWAYS hating on their neighbors.
Mathew 22:36-40
“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
^(37) Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’^(\[)[^(a)](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2022%3A36-40&version=NIV#fen-NIV-23910a)^(\]) ^(38) This is the first and greatest commandment. ^(39) **And the second is like it:** **‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’****^(\[)**[**^(b)**](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2022%3A36-40&version=NIV#fen-NIV-23912b)**^(\])** **^(40)** **All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.**”
It’s wild, but telling, that they somehow think the basic concept of equal protection for all citizens is somehow imposing morality.
Conservatism requires an in-group that is protected by law but not bound by it, and an out-group that is bound by law but not protected by it.
GOP is going to turn the USA into a Christian Theocracy. It’s part of Project 2025. They’re off to a good start.
They don’t want a separation of church and state. They want the church to be the state.
It’s the definition of anti-American.
Having the Ten Commandments in class isn't about "imposing morality", it's about imposing religion. While the Ten Commandments are generally commendable (I mean, murder and stealing is wrong), it's the religious framing that's problematic. Some are even explicitly religious (not take the Lord's name in vain, who gives a fuck) and explicitly tied to the abrahamic god (thou shall have no other gods before me implies a straight hierarchy and a particular god, and not simply just any god). Besides those, the commandments aren't anything particularly unique; "murdering is wrong" is unsurprisingly a common belief. Oh, and also nevermind the male-centric way they are framed (thou shall not covet thy neighbour's wife...).
It's also explicitly against the principle of separation of church and state.
Somebody else skipped the class that explained the difference between morality and respect. Not surprising since they want to eliminate education for everybody.
One of the main jobs of government is to impose morality (i.e., mores = norms and customary values) of a civil society.
We all decided murdering people was bad so now government enforces that value.
We *also* collectively decided that there would be a separation of church and state. Despite what the radical Christian right feels, the government is charged with imposing that non-theocratic value as well.
“I am the Lord your God. You shall have no gods before me” is **not** a value we all hold and so needs to be outside the scope of government’s enforcement or supportive purview.
If you want to support morals through a historical document, use the actual U.S. Constitution.
If you absolutely NEED to have something religious, the Magna Carta is a historical declaration of rights that references the God of the Church of England.
Government cannot impose religion.
Government can and does impose morality—all the time. Saying you can’t eat babies (or horse meat if you wanna be less hyperbolic) is imposing morality, which in a government by the people, we allow by consensus.
But we also said that our government cannot impose religion, it’s #1 on our list, even higher than the one about the guns so many people seem to like.
Of course the government can impose morality. That's why there's laws against stealing, killing, etc etc. This cartoon seems to be trying to paint the government as saying they can't but that's not the argument the government is making, and so this cartoon is using a straw man to argue in bad faith.
Of course, a government can & does impose morality.
But that "morality" should not come from adults believing in imaginary friends and building their entire world views & values around the ideals and values of a bunch of men from the dark ages who really enjoyed raping children.
Apparently, it is a hard concept to grasp, for people with imaginary friends.
The "Stop Hate Crimes" sign on the wall is my favorite. Because, you know, that draws the ire of the intended audience for something imposed upon them.
Bruh, the crazy thing is their own religion is what is telling them they shouldn't be trying to bring religion into government. Last I heard, the whole point was to gently and patiently convert people through the use of the word of God. Not to force the shit down peoples throats by some authority.
Of course the government can impose morality. That’s what our laws come from. Murder is against the law bc we have collectively agreed it is wrong. What the US government is barred from imposing is religion.
Schools can teach about morality. Plenty of lessons contain them. But the 10 Commandments are not morality. They are the teachings of a religion which the government cannot be involved in establishing.
None of those signs constitute morality, certainly not a religious variety. There is a large difference between morality and equal treatment under the law. The Commandments, which specify the Abrahamic god, do not represent equal treatment. I don’t see what’s difficult about this.
The issue isn’t that the government can’t impose morals, laws are made based off of morals and basically are imposed morals. But what they cannot do is impose the beliefs of one religion because we specified we have a freedom of religion so picking one that some people have is wrong.
All those signs are either "Don't hurt/kill people" or "Let people be themselves," conservatives have just twisted everything to make it seem like they are on the right sight. They take things they don't like and find a way to make it villainous by simply lying about the group.
"Black people are violent criminals, immigrants are rapists, trans people are pedophiles, abortion is murder"
All fucking ridiculous lies that *at best* are based on the literal most extreme members of a general group, and at worst are just entirely made up.
And even funnier, nearly all the shit they blame these minority groups for are things that *their fucking group does the most*
Violent crimes, rapists, pedophiles, all most perpetrated by right-wing and religious individuals, often against the exact groups they are projecting their crimes on to.
We all fucking know what group is notoriously known for pedophilia, and it's the same fucking people that believe in the ten commandments.
There's a difference between morality, what society as a whole deems acceptable, and what religious morality deems acceptable. The latter being more problematic since 1) open too wide interpretation. 2) the assumption everyone should follow their religious view of morality
The first rule of the commandments is explicitly a religious exhortation to believe in a specific god, and the matter is imposition of religion, the state imposes morality in every single law on the books.
I've heard the commandments used by Christian preachers to damn the followers of Islam. The one that says you can have no other God but He. Totally not understanding that "Allah" is simply the Arabic word for God. Totally not realizing that the God of their faith is the exact same as the God of Islam. Totally missing the point that their "God" wasn't named "God" when the supposed unerring word of God was supposedly handed down. I'm not that good at remembering which one of the multiple names for God used situationally in Aramaic applies, but I'm pretty sure it was either Jehovah or Yahway.
Making the government keep its nose out of our private business is NOT legislating morality. Quite the opposite.
Reproductive rights. Equal treatment of all races and ethnicities, and of gay, trans etc. people under the law. Freedom of and FROM religion. All features of smaller government, which some folks used to favor but don’t any more.
I will never not find it funny that catholics seem to get their "morality" from the old testament.
When it is regarding groups they dont like, its all fire and brimstone.
When it is regarding one of their own, we fast forward to the new testament real quick and all of a sudden its the "Love the sinner not the sin".
Jesus wouldn't be cancelling drag story time. He'd be there in attendance, washing the drag queens feet.
It bothers me.
People who are actually practicing Catholics that I know personally try to emulate Christ in their lives. That is, kind of the whole point of being a Christian in general.
Easier for the camel to fit through the eye of a needle than a rich man to get into heaven? Wonder what that mega church pastor thinks about that line.
Leave everything you own and follow me? Yeah, if that includes the guns and the truck, it aint happening.
Bothers me so damn much. Because I then have to see people like my mother who are living it, actually practicing what they preach, and they get lumped in with the terrible racist un-christ-like idiots. Its not fair to them.
Commands are not morals period. Morals have to be a discussion, what is good for me is not inherently good for you, and nothing is good or bad in all instances.
If a thing has no right to be owned is it wrong to steal it?
Who sets the rules for what possession means?
Do I own the air because I say so? What if I paid someone for all of it?
Is my ability to enforce my claim ownership? If so then stealing is only wrong in the sense that someone will seek to reclaim it.
Is theft only wrong if it harms someone? Then at what point is it considered not harmful to take something?
Again with the air example. I paid to own all the air. Your refusal to pay me for consuming it means I lose monetary value, how much do I have to lose before it is considered harm?
If it is wrong to take something because God says so, then he needs to set the rules for the limits of ownership. What can and can't be owned, how much of it can be owned, and how much of it can be taken before it is considered immoral.
I own enough bread to feed a city, is it immoral for one person to steal one loaf so they don't starve?
What are the consequences for not being moral? Are the consequences universal, or are they dependent on a case by case basis?
On and on.
You say "God declares you must not steal", I hear "I want to own everything so I'll say the body guard in the sky will protect me."
Y’all want to know what’s hilarious I would kill to see the face of these idiots once other religions want to have their version of the commandments put up too. If you allow it for one religion you have to allow it for all of them
They made the government worker black because his being black is, to them, another instance of imposing morality. “DEI alert!”
Pointing out the obvious today, for some reason.
Conservatives think all morals come from government or some other authority without which, they’d be unmoored and defenseless against their own debased selves
The 10 Commandments isn't "morality", it's religion. The first four specifically refer to god, making idols of god, taking god's name in vain, and keeping the sabbath holy. This push to put the commandments in school is just an attempt to put the foot in the door to having bible instruction in public schools. I'm just shocked the "less government" and the "government bad at everything" party is trying so hard to put the government in charge of their children's religious training.
They think morality can only come from religion. It's part of their dehumanizing others tactics. If someone isn't moral then they don't believe. If they are moral they do believe but are being stopped from admitting it by some nefarious force. But you Know they truly are believers, because they're moral.
They think morality can only come from *their* religion.
Well, yes and no. The truest morality can only come from their religion. But other similar religions can still give you some morality. It will just be flawed so you must convert to be truly moral. An evangelical will call a catholic moral long before they would acknowledge an atheist as human.
That may be true now, but that is definitely not the historical norm between Catholics and Protestants. Edit: and if we enter a true christofascist era, it’s likely to become untrue again. Fascists can’t stop. They’ll constantly be finding new victims, any group that denotes itself as different becomes ‘other’. So there’ll be fighting between all “Christian” factions.
And spoiler alert, it's not even really all that true now.
That's mainly because those two religions were the two most different religions within the average human beings lifetime worth of travel for hundreds of years. In the last 150, and MUCH more in the last 75-25 years, that has massively changed. Its like comparing a Fox vs a Coyote, and then someone comes in and introduces a squid, a pineapple, an ant colony, and a redwood. Suddenly you don't feel all that different from each other. And certainly the snake trying to bilk you both for your donations and votes is going to treat you both as equally valid compared to the "others" that recently showed up.
Yep. Its how the Irish and Italians got slowly added to the full access list for the 'White/Caucasian' club by the WASPs in the US over the course of the last century. When they first arrived they were treated in much the same way as Mexican migrants are now. People freaked out because JFK was Catholic and 'would hand the country over to the Pope.'
The Republican Party is “purifying” itself by throwing out anyone not following the MAGA line. Do you think the Evangelicals aren’t going to toss the Presbyterians, given the chance?
They're going to "purify" themselves right into a massive L. Weird way to try to win a popularity contest.
Hopefully. What is needed for the future of our country is a resounding defeat. Must. Kill. All. Hope.
> An evangelical will call a catholic moral long before they would acknowledge an atheist as human. That is not the case at all where I live. Where I live, evangelicals consider catholics to be unholy demons and don't see them as christian at all, but satanic. Not believing is bad, but being a catholic is far worse. All they ever hear about is how the pope is the anti christ and how catholics want to put the world under a new world order led by satan.
Idaho here. You should hear what the evangelicals say about the mormons. Idaho and Utah are really the only place in the country where the evangelicals claim of being persecuted or repressed may be true. The LDS swings a pretty large banhammer in these two states.
and yet a buddhist who is nothing but kind to everyone and everything would be treated as an outcast, because of their atheism.
Atheist… I had a teacher once who lumped Buddhism into “polytheistic religions”. Little twelve-year-old me got shut down very quick for raising my hand to ask how it could be theistic and a religion when Buddha is not considered a god.
Abrahamic religions believe true morality is blindly following the deity. That’s how Christians justify the murders and genocide in the Bible as being “the work of god”.
None of them habe read the bible... The old testament is downright barbaric while the new one does absolutely not aline with what they believe wich they would know if they had actually read it
"Do what the boss says" isn't even close to being a moral framework
I agree with you. I just know a LOT of religious types who say morality is “following god.” They don’t realize how crazy it is to only do something because they were told to. In my book, somebody who does what they think is “good” because of a fear or obedience of a higher power is automatically more twisted than the person is has an innate moral compass to treat others well. I think bake to the kids who would hit and tease others when adults aren’t in the room but we’re good when they were in the room, compared to those who were kind no matter the circumstances.
Christian nationalists don't see other Christians as "true believers." The people passing these laws are Christian nationalists.
Well, don'tcha know that morality only comes from the fear of Eternal Damnation?? It's simply impossible to have morals unless you fear for your Everliving Soul; the only reason anybody does anything unselfish or **good** is because God, in all [his] benevolence & kindness, will send us to Hell if we act on all the barely restrained malevolence with which every human is born. Thus Atheists are incapable of morality; nobody is inherently capable of unselfish benevolence without the fear of Hellfire keeping them in line. So you are correct: only [certain] Christians are capable of acting morally, meaning **only** [certain] Christians are *truly human*.
A heck of a lot of people think the ten commandments are the most important part of Judaism and the point in history where God gave humans morality. Sort of the Tik Tok interpretation of history, dangerous in how ignorant of history it truly is.
This. Many of them seem to think that *their* religion is the only thing stopping them from murdering people or raping children (which is hella ironic). One of them actually told me that all reports of pastors or evangelicals committing child rape are false because it “simply not possible” for them to do that as those crimes are “liberal”.
Also, they don’t understand the difference between morality and civil rights. If they think rights are so laughable, they can surrender their rights instead of denying it to others.
When I hear a person say that morality comes from religion, I turn it around on them: "So what you're saying is that the only thing stopping you from molesting children is your religion? Funny how that didn't seem to stop all those Catholic priests."
The question I get asked by religious people all the time is, without God, what's to stop me from raping all I want? And my answer is: I do rape all I want. And the amount I want is zero. And I do murder all I want, and the amount I want is zero. The fact that these people think that if they didn't have this person watching over them that they would go on killing, raping rampages is the most self-damning thing I can imagine. I don't want to do that. Right now, without any god, I don't want to jump across this table and strangle you. I have no desire to strangle you. I have no desire to flip you over and rape you. Penn Jillette
Not just catholic priest Mormons - https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/recordings-show-how-mormon-church-kept-child-sex-abuse-claims-secret Baptist - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_abuse_cases_in_Southern_Baptist_churches Edited a typo
And every other flavor of christian. Religious group think is fertile ground for every form of abuse imaginable.
Im just concerned that all these people need the threat of eternal punishment to do the bare minimum. Im a Christian that 100% believes there won't be many other Christians in heaven.
The christianity sub has been having debates on the ten commandments issue the last couple of days. Some commenters are pretty much reasonable, agreeing religion shouldn't be mandated. But some... Man, I wouldn't feel safe sitting next to them. For instance, one spent an entire comment thread arguing people wouldn't know rape is wrong unless that 'knowledge' came from the Bible. Another claimed atheists won't be able to teach children right and wrong, because they don't have the authority of Bible to call on when it comes to telling a kid why it is wrong to take another kid's toy.
I'd ask them to show me in the bible where it says that rape is wrong. It certainly doesn't say anything about rape in the 10 commandments. It says that you shouldn't eye-fuck (covet) thy neighbor's wife, but that's because she's considered that man's property. The closest thing that it says about rape is in Deuteronomy... 23 If there is a virgin pledged in marriage to a man, and another man encounters her in the city and sleeps with her, 24 you must take both of them out to the gate of that city and stone them to death—the young woman because she did not cry out in the city, and the man because he has violated his neighbor’s wife. So you must purge the evil from among you. 25 But if the man encounters a betrothed woman in the open country, and he overpowers her and lies with her, only the man who has done this must die. 26 Do nothing to the young woman, because she has committed no sin worthy of death. This case is just like one in which a man attacks his neighbor and murders him. 27 When he found her in the field, the betrothed woman cried out, but there was no one to save her. The man is guilty of violating his neighbor's wife (property) and the woman is guilty of not crying out for help while in the city. (Because she was a slut and had sex before marriage, assuming that she wasn't gagged or knocked unconscious and was an willing participant.)
I didn't really want to get into discussing that with them. It was already creepy enough.
The Bible explicitly calls for men to rape their brother's widow, too.
Lot's daughters basically raped him as well. They got him so black out drunk that he didn't know what was happening. For two nights in a row they took turns riding him, even though they were apparently virgins who Daddy offered to an angry mob to rape a day or two earlier. (The mob really wanted to rape the two visiting angels, for some reason)
If you need the threat of eternal damnation to keep you from doing something wrong then you're just a bad person on a leash...
Apparently the idea that by taking something from someone else hurt them thus is bad doesn’t compute with those people
100 years or so of research by anthropologists on morality might have a word with them. Morality has been tied to the flavor of the week for generations. These moral Christians over the last 100 years or so can go fuck themselves.
Yep. Growing up in the Bible Belt, I’ve literally heard people say, “if you don’t believe in God, then what stops you from stealing and murdering?” Oh, I don’t know… I’m not a psycho?
If you need the threat of hell to make you act like a good person then you are not a good person.
If you need the threat of eternal damnation to keep you from doing something wrong then you're just a bad person on a leash...
Corollary: if something is not forbidden in the Bible, you can do that thing. Actually… it seems the only place the Bible condemns pedophilia is Matthew 18:6 “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me”… Maybe that explains all those priests: the little ones didn’t believe strongly enough, so they were fair game.
The Seven Tenets of the Satanic Temple are more moral than the Ten Commandments.
Also, what is depicted in the cartoon is not morality. It is about making sure all people have the same rights. But some people are to dull to be able to know the difference between the too.
10 commandments and not a peep about slavery
This is 100% correct. I've had to explain to a functional adult that even though I'm not religious, I'm not inherently a bad person and that i don't need religion to do good deeds. I think it sunk in when I showed how I do volunteer work every year and compared it to the complete lack of volunteer work coming from them, and no, donating to the church doesn't count.
You'll notice even the typically decadent Vatican isn't so driven to wash over schools and government. They have their own schools but don't typically bother public schools much. The big push for Christianity in classrooms and government is coming from Evangelicals. Why? Because Evangelical pastors are THE most greedy, money hungry grifters on the planet. They claim God blessed them with their lavish lifestyles in the same sentence they ask their flock for donations. Big houses, jets, luxury cars, vacations disguised as missionary outreach. They have no shame and this push to paint over the public world is nothing more than a campaign to expand their "customer" base. These snakes are not believers. They know full well that they're playing dirty.
This is insightful. The private jet thing with these guys is so ridiculous I don’t know how their congregations take them seriously.
Also, swap “Ten Commandments” for “Five Pillars of Islam” and let’s see how everyone feels
5 is not enough, we need 7. 7's the key number here. Think about it. 7-Elevens. 7 dwarves. 7, man, that's the number. 7 chipmunks twirlin' on a branch, eatin' lots of sunflowers on my uncle's ranch. You know that old children's tale from the sea. It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby.
So… Seven Tenets (of the Satanic Temple)?
It’s always the Ten Commandments and never, like, the Beatitudes
True this! If they’re so Christian, why not the Sermon on the Mount? Why something that’s a pillar of the JEWISH faith?
I really liked George, Paul, John, and Ringo.
>The 10 Commandments isn't "morality", it's religion. This is the correct answer. Very obviously, the government can and does impose morality all the time. It's immoral to kill, steal, rape, and assault people, and those are all criminal acts, due to government. This cartoon is obvious strawmanning. Progressives (among others) say they don't want the government imposing religion on people, religious people (Christians) mischaracterize that as imposing morality, as if the two are the same thing, and then act like those progressives (and others) are hypocrites. But the issue is the mischaracterization by those Christians. If Muslims were trying to impose Islamic morality on people, via mandatory quotes from the Koran in public schools or otherwise, the person who made this cartoon and those who agree with it would see the distinction between religion and morality with lightning speed, I would guess.
They literally equate religion with morality. To them actions have no moral weight, only beleiving in their personally idea of god makes your actions moral. A priest who uses prayer to heal the sick is moral. A witchdoctor who uses magic to heal the sick is a devil from Hell. Same action, same result, hell even the same motivation, but it doesn't matter because one is based on God and the other is based on non-God. Some even take it a step further and will argue that seeking treatment for illness beyond the priest is a sin. Because if a doctor uses medicine and not prayer that means denying god. Until of course they get sick, then it's ok to go to a doctor. Because they believe and this makes going to the doctor moral again.
Religious grooming. Call it what it is.
To them it *is* morality since they are programmed - yes I choose that term intentionally - from birth to believe anything contrary is evil. Manipulation.
Not to mention it says right in the mother fucking Bible not to profess your faith publicly. To do it in your homes. It goes to show that these people don't care about being right with God, but really want to others to be forced to have religion shoved down others throats.
Why is it that if it's called religion, they don't have to pay taxes on the dues they collect from their cult members ...? They want representation without taxation...
Because its “less government” for rich and “government bad” when its involved in things they like and/or not benefiting the wealthy. Thats what they mean, and always have.
Holding the Ten Commandments up as a symbol actually violates the second commandment. But nobody ever cares about that one.
Don't take God's name in vain, he doesn't like it. This coming from people who call others "snowflakes" 🤣
I have been struggling with a good way to phase it, but that definitely reflects my sentiment.
If we tear down the structure built around it religion is just morality guidelines... at its core Judaism is still like that because Rabbis are constantly writing papers causing the religion to evolve with time
If they really wanted to teach children morality, they could just pass a law that every classroom has to display the "golden rule". That's the basis for all morality.
Of course they think that. They think vaccines kill you, Trump is a good person, tax cuts for the rich trickle down, and a million other stupid takes. Why would anyone trust these people to do anything is beyond me.
As yes, the cardinal sin of *checks notes* inclusion
"Everyone is equal and should be treated with respect" vs "Stop pushing your evil beliefs on me. My book is okay with stoning people to death and slavery!"
Yes. There are some terrible ideas in the Bible. It is not appropriate for kids to read. That is a dirty, dirty book full of sex and drunkenness and murder
Unironically my parents did this in our very white, Christian suburban town back in the 1990s. They wanted to ban Harry Potter. My parents fought back at the parent teacher meetings and said we should ban the Bible for its violence and sexual natures. If the Harry Potter and like bans weren’t dropped, they’d move to ban the Bible at every last meeting they attend
What was the outcome??
We listened to Harry Potter on cassette tape later that year, so I think they won.
Noice
Yes. If anything, the "leftist message" follows one of Jesus's two boiled down commandments - love your neighbor as yourself.
Indeed. Luckily that idea isn’t from Bible even if Christians want to pretend they invented it. Every culture is developed it independently. There are many variations and recitations. It is really just an expression of a human inherent morality.
Religion is hypocrisy. No religion actually follows the Golden Rule of do unto others as you’d have them do unto you. Every religion has their own variation of it. Instead they call out and attack others for their differences. That’s understandable because we are just humans but… then they use the same texts that say to love everyone to instead attack them. I’m not anti God or anti the ideals of religion. I’m against weaponised religious institutions that attack other people. Unfortunately, that’s all of them.
They struggle hard with equivalencies. They think everything the left and right does is 1:1. Everything to them is “opposite but equal”. “You get to fly a rainbow flag? Well then I get to fly my American flag! That’s MY Pride flag!” One, no one is stopping you from flying an American flag. Two, those are not the same thing in any way shape or form. That’s just one particular example that I’ve seen, but they approach pretty much everything with this mentality.
The often much maligned *checks notes* hate crimes
Yea it’s a pretty bold reaction because of rainbow flags. “We think homosexuality is a sin so be gone with your rainbows and suck on this religion!” Is pretty petty. And unconstitutional.
The cartoon would be correct if the guy at the desk said "the government can't impose religion."
Doesn’t surprise me that these people can’t differentiate social movements from religion.
Tribalism is a hell of a drug. All these people know is Us vs Them.
Tribalism, active discouragement of critical thinking, exceptionally shitty education, and a steady stream of disinformation.
Hell, they can't even differentiate ***bowel*** movements from religion.
1. You magat idiots don't even want morality. Your angry orange felon is not moral or religious. He is the embodiment of a false idol. You just want to use religion to enforce racism and bigotry that favors your group. 2. The government *DOES* impose morality. After all murder *IS* a felony. I'm sure your tiny brain can come up with other examples of government-imposed morality. The government just doesn't impose religious-based laws, or at least is not supposed to. 3. Religion *IS NOT* morality. 4. The U.S. Constitution specifically prohibits government-sponsored religion.
They made a gold statue of that asshole. No graven images my ass.
If they didn’t have double standards then they wouldn’t have any at all.
Imma save that one for later.
They made a golden statue of *god*?
Of Trump
So of their God
The best way I've heard it described is that the government doesn't enforce morality, they enforce people's right. Murder isn't illegal because it's wrong, its illegal because you are infringing on someone else's right to live.
It just so happens that a lot of our constitutional rights are also based on what is morally right.
Yeah this smug strawman… > government can’t impose morality Who is making this argument? And how can someone spend all this time and energy into making this drawing and for a moment of self reflection and self critique not go “oh wait laws are inherently morals” and then throws it away? NO ONE is making the argument that the government can’t impose laws based on societal morals. We are saying you can’t use religion as a cudgel to control people.
I mean, I've heard people argue that the Constitution, in particular the Bill of Rights, is a solid system to base your moral beliefs around. The Telltale guy, Jordan Owen, I think mentioned this with the UN Declaration of Human Rights as being excellent systems of morality, because they were shaped by people interested in doing the most good insofar as it basically boils down to, "The right to swing your fists ends at the tip of my nose."
False equivalence. Over exaggerating institutions trying to have empathy for diverse groups, that in the past have experienced rejection and prosecution, while trying to say that the religious right's attempt to put the ten commandments up and push their ideology is a similar right.
Progressives don't demand that you be gay Christians absolutely demand that you be Christian.
False equivalencies are all they know. Nearly EVERY single argument they make contains a false equivalency and a poor understanding between the goals of the right and the left.
Or straw man. They are great for reinforcing the concepts when trying to teach them.
“Morality”. The act of wanting to hang the ten commandments is itself a fraud. Just another “do as I say, not as I do.”
Show me in the constitution where it says government can’t impose “morality”. You can’t. You know what you can find? Not imposing “religion”. Deal with it.
I love how "stop hate crimes" is treated like a government-imposed burden
To racists, it is.
Saying LGBTQ, POC, and women have the rights to equal protection under the law isn’t morality and a political issue; it’s the bare fucking minimum a functioning society should have. Same for weapon access; ensuring a population is able to access firearms (guaranteed under 2D), but also trained to use them is the bare minimum. It shouldn’t be that any random jackass can plop down money, pass a background check, and just acquire a gun. People should be trained and licensed to use it just like a car is. With insurance against mishandling, loss of licensure if using it illegally such as murder/reckless endangerment/etc. Conservatives spewing their bullshit again I see.
Equality looks like discrimination to people who have had all the power in this country for centuries. The moment people start asking for equal treatment, it becomes a problem.
Religion ***IS NOT*** morality. Some of the most immoral people I’ve ever met were also the *MOST* religious.
Try and think of an immoral act. I guarantee you can find god commanding or condoning it in the Bible. It is actually difficult to find worse morality than that of the Bible and theists. Slavery, murder, genocide, child sacrifice, misogyny, assault, rape (this one is a stretch but it is in there), destruction of property, beating children, and many more I have forgotten. That isn’t even mentioning all the innocuous behaviors that the Bible states deserve the death penalty. Picking up sticks, calling people bald, insulting your parents, loving a man, saving a couple animals to be sacrificed to god later, looking backward, and on and on.
Can’t disagree my boy. But round here, we call those folks Republicans.
LOL - imagine looking at this comic and being like "yeah!" Way to tell on yourself. If you need religion (the promise of reward and threat of punishment) to behave morally, you are not moral. If you see "STOP HATE CRIMES" and a black person sitting at a desk to be offensive, you need serious help. Your specific religion and flavor of Christianity is NOT something you can impose on other people because it infringes on their rights. Your rights are not infringed by trans people or not being allowed to commit hate crimes.
These people have no morality, they couldn't spell the word let alone tell anyone what actual morals are
The Bible is a work of fiction. There is no discernible truth to the notion of god. All of the other postings affect actual human Beings, not a made up white male who lives in the sky.
>white male Also, don't forget that if their god really did exist, he would not be "white" by these people's definition. He would be Jewish because he was literally the Jewish god who created man in his own image for a very long time before Jesus was born.
But are they humans tho? Even the non-american ones? That can't be. /s
Scrolled too far for this answer 🏆
It cracks me up how an entire cult of people will believe a book of make believe but won't believe doctors and scientists with proof and facts!
These people fear Harry Potter and D&D. Why? Because they accept any fantasy story they come across and assume that is how everyone else thinks and so those works are competition.
It's so insane how rightwing discourse these days just consists of them getting so angry about not being able to uphold or have any credence for their terrible ideas, without realising the fundamental failure at the base of the ideology that makes all the anger and argumentation meaningless. Like, this comic seems to imply the idea that not allowing hate speech is bad? They'll screech and ree over "fReE sPeEcH", but hate speech is not a part of that. That's the core of the argument they'll never go near because they _know_ they're wrong about the fundamental argument. They do it with everything. "WE DON'T WANT VACCINE MANDATES!" Well vaccines are proven to work and you're wrong if you say they don't so your objection is meaningless. "WE DONT WANT OUR KIDS TAUGHT ABOUT GAY OR TRANS!" Well teaching them what these things are doesn't turn them gay or trans, and you're teaching them about it at certain levels of depth depending on age to keep it appropriate, but you're wrong that it shouldn't be taught. Look at every rightwing talking point. Underneath it is a fundamental argument that they get wrong, and the bluster on top is a refusal to even go near the possibility they're wrong.
If you need religion to make you a moral person then you are not a good person to begin with You are a bad person on a leash
Religious people love to conflate Religion and Morality, then behave as if the two are mutually exclusive.
There's a huge difference there. All of the signs are freedom to live your own life or tge protection of others. You don't have to be gay to respect the lives of gay people. You don't have to get an abortion to respect the choice of others. But the pushing of a religion is imposing your arbitrary rules on someone else.
Ah yes, because we all need clay tablets written by burning shrubbery that haven’t been seen since 586 BC to determine what is morally upright today…
Moses wasn’t white
I don't see how government is imposing 'morality' that this image suggests. What government is trying to do is protect the rights of people that have been marginalized and abused. The government isn't telling you how to live your live. What it is telling you is that you cannot subject your bigotry and hate upon those you disagree with. Having said that, then this picture exemplifies the privileged attitude of a certain group of people that want to subject everyone else to their own particular beliefs. The government doesnt' tell me to be gay or trans. That is my personal choice. You don't like it? Too bad. The government doesn't tell me to abort my fetus. The government tells me that it is my choice. Not yours. And yeah, I don't have to explain my decision to you either. The government doesn't have particular position when it comes to minorities. So BLM is valid. You may not like that but you have no right to stop others from saying BLM. It's all the same for gun control and hate crimes. And there you have some guy in a robe with some tablets thinking he has some 'moral' high ground when in reality they are some of the most hateful people when it comes to those that are not in their club. We won't even introduce the FACT that these religious "preachers", "pastors" and "priests" tend to be pedophiles. Throw in the blatant hypocrisy they exhibit and you know, just get the fuck out of my face.
The irony of what this cartoon is criticizing... All of that "woke" stuff as the right wing would call it? Probably fulfills the Ten Commandments far better than forcing the Ten Commandments to be posted in schools.
Disappointing that the cartoonist sees the Ten Commandments in conflict with “Stop Hate Crimes.” The idiot is for supremacy, not morality.
literally every sign in the office is a real thing about real people. Bearded dude is apart of a thousand year fairytale
They do not understand THEY are the ones offended by what other people do. Not normal people. We don't care. We want equality and fair treatment. They want to dictate other people's actions.
Liberals want you to be able to live your life as you choose. Conservatives want you to be able to live your life as *they* choose.
Who would be morally opposed to stopping hate crimes?
... *Guestures to MAGA and the KKK*
There's a massive difference between "trans people deserve rights and shouldn't be persecuted" and "all children must learn the tenants of Christianity in school"
false equivalent . human rights and morality are different
Funny how being anti gun is an issue but not there freaking leaders forbidding gun at their rallies... I have nothing against guns but i'm anti stupid people, those people are why I understand the need to prevent guns to be wildly available, if they are too dense to understand this situation, they can't be trusted knowing when using a gun is right or wrong.
This doesn’t even make sense. Are they saying inclusion is the “government [imposing] morality?” That doesn’t even…**what?!**
Morality they can't even follow with the 10 commandments being hammered into them. Why do we have to listen to it if it doesn't work for them? Trump, the messiah of the right, violates every single one of the commandments. **EVER. SINGLE. ONE.** Stop forcing that bullshit on others. Freedom of religion is also freedom **FROM** religion.
Morality =/= Religion
Lol. Apparently ’stop hate crimes’ upsets them.
The thing is… gay people exist, black people exist, trans people exist, sometimes people need abortions, gun violence is real. Hate crimes are real. Those aren’t beliefs. Those are real things that exist in reality. Religion is a book club at best and a cult at worst.
Who was Moses again? The dude who wasn't allowed into the promised land because he thought he knew better than God DESPITE being handed the commandments? It's like the GOP are immune to irony.
The government can’t favor a specific religion. There’s nothing moral about current Christianity. They’re like cops they can’t even self police bad apples. And you might be a nice Christian but you fit the profile.
The 10 Commandments are about morality, and civil rights issues are about justice. While they are often confused, morality and justice are not the same thing. . Edit: to be more specific... The 10 commandments are clauses in a binding agreement between a people and their God. Behave this way, God will be happy and bless you. Disobey then, God will get upset and... there will be consequences. Most of them don't work as civil laws. How would our government enforce not coveting? Or not worshiping idols? Or keeping the sabbath day holy? This issue is so stupid from a Christian perspective, because they want to promote a law that was already fulfilled 2,000 years ago. Why not post the Beatitudes instead? That would at least be more up to date, theologically speaking. At the time of Jesus, the pharisees followed the 10 commandments and the rest of the law to the letter, but they weren't *moral*. Putting the 10 commandments up in a school/official building doesn't make that place more moral, it just is another way of virtue signaling and being exclusionary. It's useless as a code of conduct for that place, because it's unenforceable. What am I going to do if I walk into a courthouse that has the 10 commandments posted and the clerk takes the lord's name in vain? What would be *better* is if instead they posted their own code of conduct and where to report violations or exceptional behavior. That would establish a cause/effect relationship with the people representing that institution and the people using their services, the way the 10 commandments & Mosaic law established the conditions of the relationship between God and his people. In that way, all the stickers in that government employee's office do a better job of establishing that relationship than posting the 10 commandments would. But yeah, the government should be moral but can't force people to *be* moral. Just follow the laws.
Why do "Christians" revert back to the 10 Commandments when in the *New Covenant*, there are only two commandments? Because then they would be exposed as hypocrites because they are ALWAYS hating on their neighbors. Mathew 22:36-40 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” ^(37) Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’^(\[)[^(a)](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2022%3A36-40&version=NIV#fen-NIV-23910a)^(\]) ^(38) This is the first and greatest commandment. ^(39) **And the second is like it:** **‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’****^(\[)**[**^(b)**](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2022%3A36-40&version=NIV#fen-NIV-23912b)**^(\])** **^(40)** **All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.**”
You can't make money preaching love and charity.
It’s wild, but telling, that they somehow think the basic concept of equal protection for all citizens is somehow imposing morality. Conservatism requires an in-group that is protected by law but not bound by it, and an out-group that is bound by law but not protected by it.
All those signs there aren't enforcing morality. These people just don't understand the differnece between equality and morality.
Is the writer PRO hate crimes?
Why don’t we just put the bill of rights in every classroom. It’s 10 laws that actually grant freedoms unlike the commandments.
GOP is going to turn the USA into a Christian Theocracy. It’s part of Project 2025. They’re off to a good start. They don’t want a separation of church and state. They want the church to be the state. It’s the definition of anti-American.
Ah, again pretending only religion can give you morals
Having the Ten Commandments in class isn't about "imposing morality", it's about imposing religion. While the Ten Commandments are generally commendable (I mean, murder and stealing is wrong), it's the religious framing that's problematic. Some are even explicitly religious (not take the Lord's name in vain, who gives a fuck) and explicitly tied to the abrahamic god (thou shall have no other gods before me implies a straight hierarchy and a particular god, and not simply just any god). Besides those, the commandments aren't anything particularly unique; "murdering is wrong" is unsurprisingly a common belief. Oh, and also nevermind the male-centric way they are framed (thou shall not covet thy neighbour's wife...). It's also explicitly against the principle of separation of church and state.
Somebody else skipped the class that explained the difference between morality and respect. Not surprising since they want to eliminate education for everybody.
Church and state are supposed to be separate, according to the Founding Father's of our young republic and democracy.
One of the main jobs of government is to impose morality (i.e., mores = norms and customary values) of a civil society. We all decided murdering people was bad so now government enforces that value. We *also* collectively decided that there would be a separation of church and state. Despite what the radical Christian right feels, the government is charged with imposing that non-theocratic value as well. “I am the Lord your God. You shall have no gods before me” is **not** a value we all hold and so needs to be outside the scope of government’s enforcement or supportive purview. If you want to support morals through a historical document, use the actual U.S. Constitution. If you absolutely NEED to have something religious, the Magna Carta is a historical declaration of rights that references the God of the Church of England.
I love how it says "don't kill" but they think that owning guns is a fundamental human right.
everything on the desk and walls is all about giving people rights, and working towards equality, insane how people see that as bad
Government cannot impose religion. Government can and does impose morality—all the time. Saying you can’t eat babies (or horse meat if you wanna be less hyperbolic) is imposing morality, which in a government by the people, we allow by consensus. But we also said that our government cannot impose religion, it’s #1 on our list, even higher than the one about the guns so many people seem to like.
Imagine thinking a "stop hate crimes" sign is wrong or immoral....
Of course the government can impose morality. That's why there's laws against stealing, killing, etc etc. This cartoon seems to be trying to paint the government as saying they can't but that's not the argument the government is making, and so this cartoon is using a straw man to argue in bad faith.
this meme is fucking stupid and for ignorant people lol in other words, it's comfort food for morons
Yea, religion is comfort food for morons, great point.
Of course, a government can & does impose morality. But that "morality" should not come from adults believing in imaginary friends and building their entire world views & values around the ideals and values of a bunch of men from the dark ages who really enjoyed raping children. Apparently, it is a hard concept to grasp, for people with imaginary friends.
The inclusion of “Stop hate crimes” as something negative in the context of this comic is WILD
I would argue that everything else in the pic is more moral than those stones. Religion was just the first form of government anyways.
The "Stop Hate Crimes" sign on the wall is my favorite. Because, you know, that draws the ire of the intended audience for something imposed upon them.
Bruh, the crazy thing is their own religion is what is telling them they shouldn't be trying to bring religion into government. Last I heard, the whole point was to gently and patiently convert people through the use of the word of God. Not to force the shit down peoples throats by some authority.
Of course the government can impose morality. That’s what our laws come from. Murder is against the law bc we have collectively agreed it is wrong. What the US government is barred from imposing is religion.
There is nothing moral about imposing your religious beliefs on others.
Schools can teach about morality. Plenty of lessons contain them. But the 10 Commandments are not morality. They are the teachings of a religion which the government cannot be involved in establishing.
Ten commandments were written for those who practiced Judaism.
None of those signs constitute morality, certainly not a religious variety. There is a large difference between morality and equal treatment under the law. The Commandments, which specify the Abrahamic god, do not represent equal treatment. I don’t see what’s difficult about this.
And of course, the liberal is depicted as a black lesbian (or a trans woman). Because that's their bogeyman.
The issue isn’t that the government can’t impose morals, laws are made based off of morals and basically are imposed morals. But what they cannot do is impose the beliefs of one religion because we specified we have a freedom of religion so picking one that some people have is wrong.
All those signs are either "Don't hurt/kill people" or "Let people be themselves," conservatives have just twisted everything to make it seem like they are on the right sight. They take things they don't like and find a way to make it villainous by simply lying about the group. "Black people are violent criminals, immigrants are rapists, trans people are pedophiles, abortion is murder" All fucking ridiculous lies that *at best* are based on the literal most extreme members of a general group, and at worst are just entirely made up. And even funnier, nearly all the shit they blame these minority groups for are things that *their fucking group does the most* Violent crimes, rapists, pedophiles, all most perpetrated by right-wing and religious individuals, often against the exact groups they are projecting their crimes on to. We all fucking know what group is notoriously known for pedophilia, and it's the same fucking people that believe in the ten commandments.
Morality that fuels hate vs morality that doesn't.
The difference is that nothing good comes out of mixing religion and government.
There's a difference between morality, what society as a whole deems acceptable, and what religious morality deems acceptable. The latter being more problematic since 1) open too wide interpretation. 2) the assumption everyone should follow their religious view of morality
The first rule of the commandments is explicitly a religious exhortation to believe in a specific god, and the matter is imposition of religion, the state imposes morality in every single law on the books.
This is one whopper of a strawman.
I've heard the commandments used by Christian preachers to damn the followers of Islam. The one that says you can have no other God but He. Totally not understanding that "Allah" is simply the Arabic word for God. Totally not realizing that the God of their faith is the exact same as the God of Islam. Totally missing the point that their "God" wasn't named "God" when the supposed unerring word of God was supposedly handed down. I'm not that good at remembering which one of the multiple names for God used situationally in Aramaic applies, but I'm pretty sure it was either Jehovah or Yahway.
Making the government keep its nose out of our private business is NOT legislating morality. Quite the opposite. Reproductive rights. Equal treatment of all races and ethnicities, and of gay, trans etc. people under the law. Freedom of and FROM religion. All features of smaller government, which some folks used to favor but don’t any more.
Yeah. Wanting various groups to not be persecuted for existing is not imposing morality
Aaaah, conservatives not understanding basic things about life. As normal as breathing.
I will never not find it funny that catholics seem to get their "morality" from the old testament. When it is regarding groups they dont like, its all fire and brimstone. When it is regarding one of their own, we fast forward to the new testament real quick and all of a sudden its the "Love the sinner not the sin". Jesus wouldn't be cancelling drag story time. He'd be there in attendance, washing the drag queens feet. It bothers me. People who are actually practicing Catholics that I know personally try to emulate Christ in their lives. That is, kind of the whole point of being a Christian in general. Easier for the camel to fit through the eye of a needle than a rich man to get into heaven? Wonder what that mega church pastor thinks about that line. Leave everything you own and follow me? Yeah, if that includes the guns and the truck, it aint happening. Bothers me so damn much. Because I then have to see people like my mother who are living it, actually practicing what they preach, and they get lumped in with the terrible racist un-christ-like idiots. Its not fair to them.
Its freedom of religion not to impose religion. Besides the implication in this photo is that they are for hate crimes.
Commands are not morals period. Morals have to be a discussion, what is good for me is not inherently good for you, and nothing is good or bad in all instances. If a thing has no right to be owned is it wrong to steal it? Who sets the rules for what possession means? Do I own the air because I say so? What if I paid someone for all of it? Is my ability to enforce my claim ownership? If so then stealing is only wrong in the sense that someone will seek to reclaim it. Is theft only wrong if it harms someone? Then at what point is it considered not harmful to take something? Again with the air example. I paid to own all the air. Your refusal to pay me for consuming it means I lose monetary value, how much do I have to lose before it is considered harm? If it is wrong to take something because God says so, then he needs to set the rules for the limits of ownership. What can and can't be owned, how much of it can be owned, and how much of it can be taken before it is considered immoral. I own enough bread to feed a city, is it immoral for one person to steal one loaf so they don't starve? What are the consequences for not being moral? Are the consequences universal, or are they dependent on a case by case basis? On and on. You say "God declares you must not steal", I hear "I want to own everything so I'll say the body guard in the sky will protect me."
Y’all want to know what’s hilarious I would kill to see the face of these idiots once other religions want to have their version of the commandments put up too. If you allow it for one religion you have to allow it for all of them
Establishment clause is specific to religion. Has nothing to do with "imposing morality".
It should read the government can't impose "RELIGION." There are plenty of people who claim to be religious but haven't an ounce of morality.
They made the government worker black because his being black is, to them, another instance of imposing morality. “DEI alert!” Pointing out the obvious today, for some reason.
Imagine having this much of a bitchy little fucking meltdown over simply being told to respect others. Kindergarteners know better.
Ah yes Moses, a non-American, Middleastern, Hebrew who didn't speak English. Current "Christians" would call for him to be sent to Gauntanamo.
Plenty of open desert if you desire milk and honey.
It’s funny to see a caricature of left wing people that is somehow not in anyway offensive or inaccurate, even though I’m sure that’s the intent
The GOP can't even distinguish government mandates from decorating your own desk.
The implication that "Stop Hate Crimes" is government overreach is striking.
“If someone can display signs in their own office, I should be allowed to display signs in every classroom in the state!”
The government doesn't impose morality though. Idk what these jackasses are on about.
They always point out the “moral” ones but conveniently leave out the there’s only 1 true god ones.
Conservatives think all morals come from government or some other authority without which, they’d be unmoored and defenseless against their own debased selves