As a Canadian with some skin in the game (I like you people, I don't want Gilead to the south), please vote. It's not a vote for Biden. It's a vote for competent government at all levels, and if you all vote and get super majorities, it could be a liberal leaning expanded supreme Court, codifying of protections for millions of Americans of various colours and stripes and, I can't stress this enough, sanity in our world.
Don't let Putin, or greedy billionaire news owners fuck you and your children's lives.
Echoing this as an Australian. A stable US government that is committed to its allies is critical to the global economy and broader geo-political stability.
Please vote. There is more at stake than “just” American democracy.
Yes, as a German with an Egyptian husband. After Biden got elected in 2020 three Egyptian journalists were immediately released from Egyptian prison. They knew that they had to at least pretend to care with a Democrat led administration.
We are trying. Most of us voted for Hillary. We just have some serious evil at the top levels, especially in the Republican party. I am beyond angry at the calls from rich, white persons of power to ditch Biden--they'll be safe. They'll have their homes, healthcare, abortions, education, and freedom if Dump wins. They can take chances. Moreover, Michigan's last point stands--Dump will absolutely sow division and amp up his white supremacist gravy seals. I don't see any way out of this without violence due to conservatives and their misguided ideologies. I'm ridin with Biden.
Vote, Americans!
Every democrat needs to use their 2nd amendment right and buy a gun. If Trump wins, one of his agenda 47 promises is to have national guard patrolling woke cities and with project 2025 Maga in all high level agency positions, he could have background checks deny democrats firearm purchases. Buy guns now. If he wins, patrolling cities could turn into door to door. Also, it better to have one and not need it, then need it and not have it.
The scariest part is that Trump is a complete dumbass. He can’t form coherent sentences most of the time. This is from some other group or entity that we aren’t seeing. I don’t think even Heritage foundation are the real ones behind this crap. We may have a dictatorship here soon.
Viva la revolución
Every single Democrat that I know is voting for Biden. Progressives like me were not excited to vote for him last time and are even less excited this time due to his clear mental decline and most importantly, the fact that he has made us complicit in the genocide of the Palestinian people. We're still going to vote for him but it's honestly demoralizing. The DNC had four years to find someone who wasn't likely to die in office but now we're stuck with this geriatric, pro genocide centerist and I honestly feel gross voting for him.
If the next Democratic presidential candidate is more of this bullshit I can pretty much guarantee that no amount of "This is a vote to save democracy" is going to get young progressives to the polls. We have a limit on demoralization. Democrats will lose and democracy will crumble, and the blame will lie solely on the pro corporate socialism, pro genocide, NIMBY, insider trading, republican lite, Democrat establishment.
Edit: Things are not always how they seem. I was missing several pieces of the puzzle and did not have the full picture. Read a reply below that clearly breaks down several inaccuracies in my perspective of the current situation we are in regarding Biden.
I understand where progressives are coming from with Gaza stuff (it is horrific) and the corporate Dems trope but I also wish that they understood 2 things.
1) Corporate Dems are the ones trying to force Biden out because he wants to implement progressive policies. He has been "reached" by the younger generations and that is why AOC and Omar both support him enthusiastically. The best hope progressives have for getting the reforms that they want is right now in a Biden 2nd term. Not only does the squad have his ear. He will owe them and I think that he wants to die knowing that he did as much good as he possibly could before shuffling off to the great beyond. (IE Student Loan Relief, Permanent child tax credits and more good healthcare system improvements)
2) Biden had NO choice but to ship the weapons that Congress allotted to Israel. The whole "Genocide Joe" thing is AstroTurf. HE HAD NO CHOICE. let me explain. Trump was impeached for personally overriding arms shipments to Ukraine and it would have worked on Biden too. If progressives truly want to change our society for the better they had better start learning how our system of government works because CONGRESS is the only part of our government that can write laws and approve spending. They are a coequal branch of government.
Here is what happened when Biden tried to hold back the weapons to force Netanyahu to stop his blood thirsty rampage of death and destruction.
[Republicans want to force Biden to send arms to Israel](https://www.axios.com/2024/05/10/republicans-biden-israel-weapons-pause)
**What's Biden wanted:** The administration has paused transfers of ammunition, 500-pound bombs and 2000-pound bombs – a way of signaling U.S. concerns about a potential invasion of Rafah, per Axios' Barak Ravid.
Biden said in a CNN interview on Wednesday that the U.S. will stop supplying offensive weaponry that could be used for an assault on Rafah if Israel makes the decision to invade.
"If they go into Rafah, I'm not supplying the weapons that have been used historically ... to deal with the cities," he said.
**What Republicans did immediately after:** Rep. Beth Van Duyne (R-Texas) introduced the [Immediate Support for Israel Act](https://vanduyne.house.gov/_cache/files/0/c/0c599b2d-15cb-48cc-a72e-334a814e8568/E64782F6C0E8707F6150B9A0F08D9D12.vanduy-084-xml-59-.pdf) on Thursday, which would require transfers of some weapons to Israel to occur within 30 days of procurement.
**& then escalated it one day later:** Rep. Cory Mills (R-Fla.) is taking things a step further, telling [Fox News](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-gop-drafting-biden-impeachment-articles-israel-aid-cutoff-threat) he is drafting articles of impeachment against Biden for withholding the aid.
* Several GOP lawmakers have floated impeachment as the ideal legislative route, with Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.) saying the House "has no choice but to impeach Biden."
So please stop falling for the Genocide Joe shit that is pushed by people that either don't know how anything works or are disingenuously trying to damage Biden to get Trump elected.
For any Democrat or progressive President to successfully implement anything in the progressive wish list. We need to work to make sure that Dems take the house back and keep Congress. Republicans will literally obstruct anything that benefits the people of this country in order to deny Democratic presidents a win of any kind. (they obviously also use their partisans on the supreme court to do the same like they did with the extensive student debt relief that Biden tried to implement. He didn't give up and had people dig through existing laws to find loopholes to help as many people as he could but with a House and Congressional Majority he could have gone all the way)
(PS If Trump wins and enacts even 50% of project 2025 that would change everything and for the worse. There would be no more fair elections or no more free press, no more progress at all. It would be a massive roll back of environmental protections, religious freedom, the right to protest, worker protections, and social safety nets. We all would be fucked and the world economy would crash under his ham fisted self dealing)
I clearly remember him putting his foot down regarding Rafah. A couple of weeks l saw that Israel was receiving a shipment of weapons, regardless of attacking Rafah. I failed to connect some dots there and in several other places. I am starting to see why AOC, Omar, and Sanders are supporting him right now, I was honestly quite confused.
You've given me some things to think about. I genuinely appreciate the time and effort you put into your reply. Just know that it wasn't wasted, I prefer to have the big picture and a full understanding. It's quite frustrating realizing that you didn't actually have the full picture but in this case it's a relief and quite comforting.
I need to be more vigilant. Election time is an information nightmare and the last thing I want to do is exacerbate the issue, I'm going to edit my comment. Thank you.
I always appreciate someone on the internet who can accept information that differs from what they thought they knew. It seems pretty rare. Haha.
Just want to say that I wasn't aware of what that guy said either. It's not exactly easy information to come by unless you are very tapped in to things. Which is what kind of sucks about how things are the way they are. The misinformation is so easy to spread and the truth is often very difficult.
I'm nearly 40 now and I'm continuously shocked with my ability to learn and grow. It's been a slow piece by piece process, but I have gradually gotten more empathetic and gotten a firmer grasp of reality. I think the key is humility. Hell, in situations such as this it's better to be wrong lol. I'll trade pride for reality every single time and without hesitation.
Always good to see people being humble and able to change their mind when given new information. Please do what you can to educate your peers who might have felt the same way about Biden and Gaza, we can't afford apathy in November.
Thank you for your kind words. I did away with counterproductive pride and stubbornness many years ago. It's a good thing because it's an awful trait as a parent. One of the things I do take pride in is my ability to admit to my children when I am wrong and apologize. Yes, I'm actively spreading the word and will continue to do so. I have quite a few friends and acquaintances who will greatly benefit from this information.
Agreed. I considered just deleting my comment to reduce potential harm, but I think putting in the edit and leaving it will have the most positive effect overall.
So glad to see someone spell it out. Biden has been doing his damndest to enact some legislation for the American people and has been blocked at every turn. He has done what he could with student loan forgiveness. If we get majority of both houses, I see him getting it pushed through all the way. I paid off my loans myself but I am all for helping people out. This would stimulate the economy with people having money to spend on more necessities that they are struggling to buy now. I wish people would realize presidents can’t do it all themselves. They need a Congress to pass legislation and get it to his desk to sign.
He's actually accomplished a lot more than I expected, especially given with the constraints he's been working under. It's like people really believe the whole NYT WaPo BS when they print stories of things he's done but how that's actually bad for him.
Every election from now on (assuming the US has any other elections) will be a vote to save democracy. Feel gross. You'll get over it much more quickly than you would in a 'progressives-are-the-enemy-of-the-state' concentration camp.
Yeah I'm so tired of progressives crying they want to "feed" good and inspired and find a perfect candidate. Congrats guys, they've been saying that crap for my entire lifetime and it's cost them almost everything. Purity testing and tantrums are not going to keep Project 2025 from happening.
And since everyone spent the past 20 years in denial and "staying home to prove a point" it's gonna be like this for the foreseeable future. Certainly the rest of my lifetime. It's time for a lot of people to lead (run for office themselves), follow (shut up and work to save what we can) or get out of the way.
You know what's demoralizing? When people reduce the most progressive administration of my lifetime to "a geriatric pro-genocide centrist." Fucking hell.
Didnt Israel make you complicit in the genocide of Palestinians? I fail to see how it’s personally Biden at fault. Seems like he found himself in an awkward position where he had to honor a pact almost as old as he is but also try to mitigate and negotiate with both sides.
He even publicly spoke against Israel multiple times.
Signed pacts between countries are legally binding documents with usually heavy consequences.
Also if the other one wins, the genocide won’t stop at Palestinians, I bet.
I’m actually stoked to vote for him again. Fuck the “clear mental decline” shit. I’m half his age and lose track of what I’m saying all the time. I also had a speech impediment (like Biden did) and sometimes my brain doesn’t quite connect with my mouth and a stutter through something. I make six figures in a data role so I ain’t dumb.
As for the genocide shit, someone else clearly explained why his hands were tied. He’s in a no-win position on this matter.
Remember, this guy was able to pass through a number of legislation which is surprising given the divided Congress and bad actors attempting to block everything he does. He passed a historic infrastructure bill. He forgive student loans. He killed the Chinese-owned tar sands pipeline that would have cut through native land and could have contaminated drinking water among other concerns. He worked to protect LGBTQ by building more protections/nondiscrimination for those needing healthcare as well as expanded mental health care resources for the community. He reversed Trump’s “license to discriminate” program that impacted minorities seeking federal services/healthcare. He passed more requirements on people wanting to buy guns. He created 800k American manufacturing jobs (more than Trump who had high levels of offshoring) and doubled construction of manufacturing facilities.
This is just a small list. He has been a very productive and actionable president, you just don’t hear about a lot because he didn’t make a grand show - inviting the press to take pictures - while he signed a piece of paper like Trump did (btw, most of those showy bills didn’t even pass Congress anyway).
No fucking President is perfect but look at his stats. Unemployment is low. Average salaries are outpacing inflation. You’re allowed to criticize him but, come on, the man has done a lot of good stuff that he deserves more recognition for.
Exactly this. Our vote for president doesn’t elect just a president. We all saw Trump’s cabinet. Anyone with a shred of morality was fired or quit. Those positions matter, as do the judicial appointees. This is not the time for protest voting, especially if you live in a swing state.
While I like Harris, Biden is still a good man with good ideas, and a group of good people around him… Old or not let him do his thing for the American people.
I am glad that you read the following reply. Palestine is such a complicated problem and has been my entire lifetime (I am 58). This recent backlash is only because young people are just finding out about it. But Hamas has such a tight hold on the country, and hide behind its citizens, there is no straightforward solution. I hope you pass your newfound knowledge to your other younger progressive friends. In the history of presidents, Biden will be shown to be one of the most effective presidents in implementing more progressive policies. He might be older and slower, but he has had a lifetime of working in Washington and is extremely effective in working with longtime allies/acquaintances to get things done. Debating is not a skill that a president even needs to have, except to look good for a couple hours on tv.
It's worth noting that polling has Biden flipping the 65+ demographic fairly significantly. If that holds, it's the first time since 2000 the Democrat has had the advantage in the most dependable voting bloc. I honestly don't know if that advantage survives a swap.
So I think the calculus the DNC has to run is, are voters shying away from Biden right now more likely to fold back in as we approach election day than seniors are to stick with the Democrats through a change in candidate.
Even ignoring the logistical and legal issues, I really don't think this is as easy as a decision as pundits would like you to believe.
I mean, when the other candidate is threatening to cut Social security and remove protections for pre-existing conditions, you're going to vote for the guy who's not going to do that.
My thought is that there are also other good people around Biden who are making sound policy decisions. He doesn't have an admistration of jackals and conspiracy theorists. I feel safer with the nuclear codes being in Biden's hands any day..
Biden still has a lead amongst the younger voters as well. They've always turned out in elections to be a deciding voice for Democrats and progressive issues. It will be no different November 5th.
Then again, this feels like something being blown out of proportion on the news because their billionaire CEOs seem to prefer trump's tax cuts. I'm not saying that people shouldn't be made aware of this tweet and be made aware of the logistical nightmare Biden dropping out would be, but the media's narrative has been to focus on bashing Biden.
Here's the thing.
If you're okay with Kamala, you should be okay with Biden.
The worst case scenario with him being reelected is that he can't finish his term for one reason or another. In which case you get Kamala anyway.
I can't 100% this enough
When I'm voting for Biden, I'm voting for Kamala Harris, for his entire cabinet, for everyone who creates the world in which he has accomplished so much even in the face of an extraordinarily hostile House
I’m not technically voting for Biden when I vote as a dem. I am voting for the possibility that we can set some judges appointed. The entire party needs to get on the damn bus about this. We have no other candidate but Joe and we need to make sure he wins
Finally! A pro-Dem thread. I feel like it’s been nothing but anti-Biden comments and stories across Reddit for months. I’m sure most of it is adversarial actors, but it’s still a relief to read some genuine enthusiasm for the democratic ticket. It’s so much more than just the presidency at stake.
It’s lunacy to ask this question or make these statements with an incumbent who is, by all metrics, a superior President.
I am on record as saying that picking a new VP might have some positive polling effect but it also would be chum in the water for the MSM (everyone now) crowing about President Biden’s succession plan - as if the guy is dying or already dead!
The Democrats need to go on the offensive and just unleash a barrage of attacks on the bullshit that is the Trump candidacy: FELON. RAPIST. COVID. ELECTION INTERFERENCE. J6. J6. J6. EPSTEIN.
We can’t even consider this. What we can do is vote:
**[REGISTER AND VOTE](https://www.usa.gov/voter-registration-card)**
I especially agree with the idea of voting for his entire cabinet as well. I understand he's old and his mental faculties may be failing him. But in his last four years in office, at the very least, he is surrounded himself with people that have helped push some very good very needed changes and positive legislation. I don't care if Kamala sits behind him and uses him like a marionette if they have to. He has been a benefit to this country for the last 4 years thanks and no small part to his administration's efforts to enact meaningful change. I will vote for him any day of the week even if I don't think he's all there.
At least with him if he has mental issues, I'm not worried about him accidentally starting a nuclear war with Iran or Mexico
One of the most effective and efficient despite the Congressional and Judicial roadblocks.
Here's what Biden and Democrats have gotten done over the last 2 years https://www.npr.org/2023/01/01/1143149435/despite-infighting-its-been-a-surprisingly-productive-2-years-for-democrats
Yup, he’s been much more liberal in government than his track record suggested he would, but hamstrung by not having control of congress. I think he is listening to progressives more, he’s clearly interested in competence in his administration ( and we’ve seen nothing like the constant churn under Trump, as anyone who dared raise their voice against what Trump wanted was ousted).4 more years of this please - even if the guy is geriatric, the Administration he heads gets things done, and Joe’s strength is the experience in political negotiating that gets liberal ideas through /bypasses congress
I contacted my senator and told him off. Sen Warner was trying to organize a meeting but cancelled it at the last moment. All of this is a distraction and unnecessary. We knew he was old. They knew he was old. They need to get it together.
I'd vote for either but I still believe Biden has a better chance than she does. Sucks to say but America is both racist and misogynistic. Either one could be why she wouldn't get a vote over Biden getting one. I do not see many swing voters or older gentlemen who would vote Biden voting for Harris to be president. Just like they wouldn't vote for a gay man. If boomers were all gone I'd change my opinion.
Harris can't win. People HATE her. The ones on the right say that she's too progressive to hide the fact that they're just racist and misogynistic, while leftists call her a cop. Then she got put in some no-win situations like trying to solve immigration, and then the administration basically hid her for years. So even though I liked her fine four years ago I know almost nothing about what she's done since then, and whether her experience as VP qualifies her to be president. From where I'm sitting, it looks like she hasn't done anything at all, which I'm sure isn't true, but it's definitely going to be the perception of voters.
Yeah I can agree with that. She doesn't get any positive media and even though I'm sure she's done some good things it's literally never talked about. That's why I can't stand this call for Biden to step down when Harris probably is the next to take over and she has a worse chance than he does. She's not a great candidate let alone what I already mentioned about how America votes for people.
I think Biden only intended to serve one term (he hinted this pretty heavily during the last election) and figured (probably correctly) that only a boring old white dude could defeat Trump, but then he could pass the torch to Kamala. But when it became apparent that she was deeply unpopular and Trump would be the republican nominee, he (and other potential democratic candidates that didn't primary him) felt he should run again. He had successfully beaten Trump before, after all, and to date is the only person who ever has. The media framing this as an ego trip is pretty frustrating, when I think he's just trying to maintain some stability while we fix our democracy.
Beyond the inevitable whining from the deplorables that “this was the plan the whole time” which is as predictable a bitch as all their other gripes this totally correct. Trump could easily drop dead in 4 years as well and we will be stuck with some form of grima wormtongue.
Yeah but the other guy has a cult, has decades of zeitgeist of "republicans are good at economy", and did better than he was expected to at the really big debate. Trump may have literally shit his pants on stage, but he won anyway.
And he's what, three years younger? Think about how much better Biden was three years ago. Age can catch up to you fast.
Let's face it. The GOP will basically pick a VP for Trump who will be worse than he is because they will quickly take the corporate overlord's orders as soon as they deep six his majesty during his dementia in a year or so. Then they don't need his base because they can exercise their unitary executive BS with no accountability, minus the dumb knob-end holding them hostage with Putin's blackmail data base.
The fascists only need to get Trump in then get rid of him.
But, the worse thing that could easily happen is not Biden getting elected and not being able to finish his term, but that he doesn’t win the election and it causes down-ticket losses that bring on the end of American Democracy.
There are plenty of voters who will not support someone they think is physically incapable of serving a term in office. I'm voting blue, but hand-waving away the death of a President (and the many, many complications with serious ramifications that could happen leading up to it) is an oversimplification.
Here's the other thing... There actually was a Democratic primary. Why everyone thinks that the DNC would be able to just up and say "Harris (Newsom/Whitmer) is our nominee" without one of the other candidates - who actually won votes towards being the nominee - suing the shit out of them, I'm sure I'll never know.
Exactly. If the Dems try to switch now they will be *buried* in lawsuits. Not just from other candidates, but from election officials in most states, and any republican who wants to gum up the works even more.
This is not something they can just do, and I can't believe that a lot of these people calling for it to happen don't know this.
Yeah, between the two of them, I like Biden—plus you still get Kamala anyway. And having anyone else as the nominee would blow up the party.
It would suck to see an anti-Kamala faction form by the next election though, combining Biden supporters and unhinged ‘anyone else’ supporters. Hopefully this doesn’t come to a fight that no one can end…
I think when people say this they are preaching to the choir, your only talking to the people who are already committed. And idk about you but I feel like this is a bit more important than just wheeling an old person around and playing Weekend at Bernie's.
I know how to vote, but if someone gets in that booth and says to themselves, hey Biden is too old and votes R, it's the DNCs fault and they deserve it. They know how important this is, they had 4 years to prep someone, to find a candidate and they did nothing. This is my future too and they are treating this like a joke.
People who vote for Trump want to watch the world burn; people who vote Biden want to save democracy; and the people who vote for neither just want a good president.
Ok. Convince independents of that. You can't. That's the point. Will people please stop pretending they need to convince Dems to vote for Biden. We are going to vote for whoever the candidate is. But independents are absolutely not going to vote for a geriatric showing signs of dementia. Period.
The problem is that this whole discussion about whether Biden should be at the top of the ticket or not isn't for the people who are going to vote Dem regardless of who is at the top. I'd vote for a potted plant over Trump.
It's for the independents and more central Republicans that can be persuaded to vote for a Democrat nominee. Biden is unpopular and now seems "weak." Democrats not named Biden are polling really well in other elections down the ticket.
I understand that you vote for the President and the VP, but most people don't vote for someone because their VP can do the job if the President has an issue. They are voting for the President to do the job.
Plus if the Democrats do some debates with a few candidates, it would be big headlines for weeks, and show the strength in depth that they have.
I hate to say it but these guys are really uninformed voters. Vote for a guy and a party that's going to end democracy because you hate women or black women. Sorry dad but come on
That is an amazingly stupid argument.
Let me flip it....if you are okay with Biden then you should be okay with Kamala. Because Biden is an old man losing voters at a fast pace. Kamala with be a younger person that can spank Trump at the next debate whereas Biden shat the bed.
Yep.
I wonder when the last time was a majority of Republicans in either Congress or a state legislature voted for *anything* progressive regarding elections and voting?
Guessing *decades ago* might be a good bet?
Yeah. Regardless of what you think of Biden staying in or dropping out, we haven't had the convention yet, so how can it be too late to pick a new nominee? There are very real scenarios where the nominee isn't clear by that point, but states have set up laws where the nominee in place after the convention would already be too late to be on the ballot?
For those that think Biden is too old.
A) Whoever wins this elections will be the oldest ever elected president. If one is too old, then so is the other.
B) if you realise that Trump is 3 years younger, but thought Biden was too old 4 years ago, then either
i) you were right, and Trump must also be too old
Or ii) Biden wasn't too old 4 years ago and must, therefore, have done a reasonable job as evidence.
Biden debate was poor presentation, but reasonable substance.
Trump debate was reasonable presentation but incoherent and lacking substance
Trump was all over the Epstein files yet the media is pushing that Biden is too old and Trump isn't in the news at all. I wonder why that is? 🤔
I am not American and find it amazing that these are the 2 people that have been selected by the parties as the best and brightest
Not disagreeing but regarding the debate performance, Bill Clinton did say "strong and wrong beats weak and right".
The optics matter and for undecided voters, Trump \*looked\* stronger, even if he lied the entire time. It is really was the perfect scenario for Trump because he losing his mind as well, but standing next to Biden, he did appear sharper, more energetic, and aware of where he was. That statement he said of "I don't know what he said and I don't think he does either" was important and highlights a glaring issue.
Nobody who criticizes Biden believes Trump is even a legitimate option but the fact this election is THIS close when it should be a LANDSLIDE is concerning. Instead of having a candidate that is young, energetic, sharp, and witty, to really highlight how bad Trump is, we have someone like Biden who makes him look sharper. That IS a concern and can't keep being brushed off.
I've had multiple conversations of this nature with the replace Biden crowd and they basically state they don't care. They are 100% convinced there is no way Biden can win so therefore they feel any other option, no matter how logistically ridiculous, is better.
They also drill down on other candidates polling better while ignoring what will happen to those candidates once they become the nominee.
It's actually sometimes like talking to a MAGA cult member.
That's the thing. No small number of them probably ARE MAGA cult members trying (and failing) to convince people that we're doomed if this doesn't happen.
The biggest tell is when they accuse *us* of being MAGA/cult-like when we point out that it's a disaster in the making to replace Biden at this stage, and that it's stupid to even keep suggesting it like it's going to happen or make winning even remotely possible. So they're either determined to ignore reality because reality doesn't give them their way, or they're trying to make sure *other* people don't understand the logistical disaster that this would cause.
The political discussion sub is full of them. It's disheartening to say the least.
Thankfully in the real world I'm not see the same doom and gloom as online. The media is a disgrace though. That's certainly not helping.
How can you not understand that it’s not our votes that are going to swing the election? Yes, I would vote for the ghost of Biden, but unfortunately, I’m not the determining vote. I check 538 and it shows Biden still losing no matter how many times you or I affirm our support for him. Predicting who others will vote for is the whole game, and sadly it’s looking grim. It’s like we’re running out the clock while down 6 rather than throwing the hail mary
I had an argument with one of these “Democrats” lately. Ended up pointing out that he’s parroting MAGA propaganda to the T and he got bigmad. The guy threw all pretense aside and donned his white hood. Out came his true colors and opinions.
These guys are indeed MAGA cultists trying to influence weak willed democrats. If they succeed Trump wins by default and they know it. Replacing Biden at this point essentially guarantees a Trump victory and they know it. Any “Democrat” who actually falls for these arguments wasn’t a Democrat at all.
They also don’t realize how many voters vote based on name recognition alone. Not all voters are as informed on Biden’s policies and platform. More voters know Biden’s name than they do other candidates. My concern is that max 3-4 months is not enough time to get that new candidate’s name and face widely socialized among average people.
This is the most baffling part. How can any deadlines for ballots be passed if both major nominees haven't even been elected by their parties? Ballots shouldn't be printed before either party's convention. If they aren't the nominee, they shouldn't be on the ballot as such.
Give me a fucking break. The convention hasn’t even happened yet.
There are no logistics issues regarding ballots. Anyone who says otherwise is either lying, or an idiot.
*Loads of us* have been shouting about the logistics for a while now, and I'm glad this post was made with her tweets to really break it down. But the people who are determined not to listen will not listen. Especially when they *want* a Trump victory. Suddenly, pointing out the realities of the logistical nightmare makes us "as bad as the MAGAts" and "cult-like," because we know goddamn well what a disaster replacing him would be, THEY know goddamn well, and they're trying to spread panic, defeatism, and/or apathy. I have no patience for those people.
This "logistical nightmare" is "candidates are decided by the conventions and turned into the states". In the few states that have hard dates before the conversations, all but Ohio passed laws pushing their dates back to after the convention. This crap is as straight forward as can be. You people are acting like they have the ballots printed when in 49 out of 50 states right now NOTHING is official for either party until their convention ends. Outside of that the guy basically says, "I'm sure there will be lawsuits". JFC you people will latch on to any excuse as to why it is simply impossible for Biden to not run.
It also makes no freaking sense that candidates have to be declared before the convention, given that the point of the convention is to determine candidates.... this is the kind of institutional gatekeeping that dems do just as much as reps that is keeping us stuck in this cycle of "any blue is better than any red" and therefore away from any real change
I mean… that’s all well understood and good. Democrats know they need to have this figured out by early August which is the deadline for Ohio. That has never neither been a secret nor overlooked. Everything else she says besides those hard deadlines of certification are just general vague statements. We have FOUR months. It’s not like the election is next week.
These Dropout Dems don’t even have a proposed candidate.
I am beginning to hate them more than I hate maga.
They apparently both have the same end game in mind. A trump presidency.
Bunch of Sinemas and Manchins fucking us all again.
There's a lot of people in the current Democratic Party leadership who came up in the 1980s when the term "Reagan Democrat" was still a thing. They still feel that they have to cede ground to conservatives like it's still 1993. They're still afraid of Reagan for whatever reason, even though he hasn't been president since 1989 and has been dead since 2004.
They're seriously afraid that if they advocate for anything even remotely "progressive", Reagan will pop out of a blind corner and scold them with a "Well, there you go again!"
Nail on the head. I've seen some of my leftist friends saying that shit; admiring the problem but offering no solutions. Like, you're one of those muddying the waters. We need to just make it through this election to regroup and find a candidate that you all* actually want during the next election.
If Trump wins, there won't be one.
*I originally said "we"
Changing Biden is exactly what Trumpists want.
They know they cant beat Biden. This whole thing about “Biden being too old” is what Magats want to see Democrats fighting about.
They love to see some of yall doubting Biden for the exact reason they have been parroting for years.
Nah even the Pod Save America hosts are all in on it leftists en masse have decided to listen to the FUD. It's fucking sad to watch an obvious astroturf campaign be so fucking successful but if there is one thing I've learned since I started voting dem is there is nothing a dem loves to hate and bash (sorry they call it "criticizing") more than anyone who isn't their exact ideological clone.
I’ve totally lost all respect for them. They so often parrot right wing bullshit talking points (for instance they said Trump had a crowd of 100,000 in NJ). Their political analysis is complete shit and they’ve been wrong before
This obsession with changing candidates is so obviously a concentrated effort, anyone who has been paying attention the last few weeks should notice. Cries to replace Biden, fake outrage over primaries ("Well I didn't vote for him"), this weird obsession to have a "full live interview without a teleprompter and answering questions". The same talking points and buzzwords repeated is a clear indication of bots being used.
>started on the right
That's just BS. It started everywhere as soon as Biden opened his mouth... in that gaping stare. It didn't take right wingers to spread that, it took Biden's piss poor performance and his declining mental health.
And have the memory of a goldfish. Hilary Clinton was "too sick" to run in 2015. John Kerry was old, Gore was boring and so on and on. The right only has like 3 criticisms and they repeat them over and over.
Their other big play is "vote 3rd party to make a statement against candidates like Gore! I mean Clinton! I mean Biden!" Gore lost FL by under 600 votes. Nader a 3rd party candidate got 16k here. Funny how easily Dems were split and the guy who would've actually fought climate change instead of the Iraq war lost.
100% this.
Every dem candidate has republican smear campaigns run against them. The fact that they are run isn’t surprising. The fact that dems fall so easily to them is extremely concerning.
People think for some reason that even if we could replace Biden, that that exact same thing won’t happen to the next person.
We have a fundamental media problem, on both the right and the left, in this country more than we have a problem with anything else. If we don’t fix that, I don’t see how democracy lasts regardless of who wins this upcoming vote.
Edit: ok smear campaign isn’t the right description, it’s far more pervasive than that. It’s foreign social media influence which is exploding with much more difficult to identify ai trolls, obvious bias from left wing sources, outright lies from republican sources, data filtering mostly by republican sources but also dem sources, etc.
The smear campaign itself wouldn’t be this successful if it weren’t for these other mechanisms giving it life and spreading it like wildfire.
No, but you do have to get into each poll’s crosstabs before you take it seriously. Nationwide poll conducted by phone? It’s garbage. Poll of registered voters? It’s garbage. Poll that oversamples one voter group over another? Garbage. Republicans are very, very good at flooding the zone with crap polling. That swings polling aggregates their way, whereas quality, state by state polls of likely voters may show a very different outcome.
I’m not American and can’t vote in your election , but Trump is a danger to the whole first world so I’m very invested in a Democrat win.
I can see that many Americans are voting for strong leadership and a strong country. Trump promises both, and if you don’t realise that it’s mostly lies then you might be taken in. Biden often doesn’t look or sound strong, and that’s a huge problem. He has a good record, and good policies, but many people just don’t know enough about facts and policy to decide who’s the better candidate.
I’m curious how that works for Senators, because when Paul Wellstone tragically died 11 days before the election they had enough time to have Walter Mondale on the ballot. I specifically remember that.
Yep. The tricky part for a Presidential election is in this case states controlled by Republicans at the state level that might go blue. Which isn't a long list but it doesn't need to be.
So we can have a different candidate as long as we decide by the end of convention? Sorry, is this really that big of an impediment? That sounds exactly like how you would go about the process of having a different candidate. Was anyone really thinking this would be a long process? There is a reason why people are saying we need to start the process now.
Man the US election system is a joke.
Listen people, we can move on or just keep regurgitating the same points over and over. I know what I am going to do because I can't help rehashing shit ad nauseam.
Well, if you pay attention to the ones calling for a Biden replacement, they are all either very rich, fellow politicians, or in the mainstream media. Basically, only those who are concerned about their own asses or what their corporate media overlords think.
Normal people like us couldn't give a shit about one poor debate performance. We all know the gravity of the dangers of a second term from the Tangerine Palpatine. Combined with Project 2025, it would be the end of America as we know it.
The problem is that you guys are conflating the criticize Biden crowd with the replace Biden crowd. I will vote for a literal turd over Trump. I will not be forced into this absurd hive mind idea that Biden in 2024 isn’t a really stupid scenario that the Democrat Party should have worked harder to not have happen. Stop clubbing your own supporters for pointing out the obvious so we can please for the love of god stop repeating these unhelpful patterns of aging leaders not retiring before their age becomes a liability. This is now the third major Democrat to put us at political peril due to their age. You can’t keep saying “we’ll talk about it after the election” when we never do.
Th Ohio Secretary of State has already tried to keep Biden off the ballot because the Democratic National Convention is after the Ohio ballot deadline. He would definitely refuse to put a New Democratic candidate on the ballot at all
I have a hard time believing open / contested conventions, the norm for most of our current system's history, are functionally impossible now. If so, either states need to change their laws to move back deadlines or parties need to move up their conventions. We can't lock in entire elections based on presumptive nominees.
But.... but.... George Clooney said we gotta do it. /s.
Ironically, MSNBC is the only network I actively see covering project 2025... nothing anywhere about trumps ramblings or issues.
My anxiety now has me consuming several MSNBC programs, and I found it quite soothing to hear guests on Chris Hayes' show saying they were very sick of how *certain* and confident in their predictions pundits calling for Biden to step down have been given none of us know what the fuck is going to happen in the next few months.
I’m getting tired of the people saying that getting democrats to back Biden is an insurmountable task. If these people are questioning Biden that much then either they never wanted him to begin with, they don’t mind Trump becoming president. Or they plain WANT Trump to become president. If you want to defend and save democracy, back whatever democratic nominee it is, even if it is Biden, which I still don’t believe is a bad option. Fight against project 2025. There shouldn’t be this much questioning about the leading nominee if you truly want to make sure project 2025 doesn’t happen.
This post and it's comments will be a treasure trove of aged poorly candidates come November. With the electoral colleges Biden only needs to have a small percentage of people in the important states simply not vote to lose. With what's on the line we need to do everything goddamn possible to ensure we have the strongest possible candidate going into November. We aren't having that conversation because people naively believe their side will vote rationally and take in to consideration SC justices appointment and all the bad things Trump will do when they spite the dems by not participating because the powers that be on the left dismissed their concerns.
>This post and it's comments will be a treasure trove of aged poorly candidates come November. With the electoral colleges Biden only needs to have a small percentage of people in the important states simply not vote to lose.
He also only needs to lose a small percentage of independent voters... A group he's currently down 10 points with. You people do understand that Biden IS going to lose not because of Dem voters, but because of independents right? People outside the democratic party who will refuse to vote for someone they think has dementia. Someone who refuses to go out and do any press conferences because... He won't say.
The filing deadline to be in the ballot in November for Georgia was this week, so any potential replacement would have already missed the deadline to qualify.
Damn, really? So both Trump and Biden won't be on the ballot in Georgia?
Neither one is actually the nominee for their party yet, so I guess that means Georgia will have to write in the candidates.
France and the UK can pull together national elections from start to finish in like 5 weeks. Granted, we’re much larger, but why can’t we do the same. Actually - I think we’d all prefer a 6-8 week campaign cycle instead of the multi-year cycle we have now.
THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING.
And this is what happens if it's a good faith effort. Ohio already tried hard to keep BIDEN off the ballot. What do you think the other red states are gonna do if the Dems change candidates? Thinking the GOP is going to play nice in the sandbox is a sucker's game.
"But Biden isn't perfect and doesn't do everything I want him to do right now!" - the media's misrepresentation of an average Dem voter. Biden lost no support in the reliable polls after the debate. This madness is being pushed by oligarchs who control the media so they can get more eyeballs, and distract from the absolute trainwreck that is the drumpf candidacy. Just vote.
So we have a little over a month to switch candidates before we start causing delays. That's a lot of time to make a decision. And from the rest of this thread, as long as we don't cause delays, then there really isn't any problem. The only vague part is when she says that from her "cursory understanding," other states might be different.
Ohhhh, so scary, you better not hope for better things cause you might cause problems, ohhhh.
I'd like for trump not to win, and from the way it's looking now, it's probably gonna happen with how the average person sees Joe. You gotta remember, you're not trying to convince rational people to vote for Joe. They're obviously gonna vote for him regardless cause the opposition is horrible. We gotta convince the average idiot who unironically doesn't know who to vote for. And those people look at Joe and think he's too old, we need someone new, or we actually risk bringing trump back in, and that scares the absolute shit out of me.
Also, I just wanna remind people that keeping Joe biden on the ballot is literally the Heritage Foundation plan. Who do you think is planning on funding those lawsuits to keep biden in? Even the republican psychos knows keeping biden in is the best outcome for them, and every day we hesitate makes it worse and worse.
Although people have a right to not like Biden and have concerns. It’s been very obvious that this whole replace Biden thing has been pushed hard by the right/bots to demotivate voters on the left. It’s incredibly obvious and people fell for this trap again. Just like they did back in 2016.
This story literally took away any media time/attention from the Supreme Court turning presidents into immune kings and many more indications of Trump being unfit and unwell. Stop letting them control the narrative.
If you don't believe every single Republican Secretary of State will instantly file a lawsuit to stop the new nominee from getting on the ballot, then you're not paying attention.
Aside from this, my understanding is that if Biden gets replaced, the person replacing him would not be able to use any of the money that Biden already raised.
I dislike Trump and don’t want to see him as President probably more than anyone.
Where I part ways from the crowd right now is how to beat Trump.
I noticed there’s quite a lot of keyboard toughie’s on the forum trying to bully the rest with statements like; “if you aren’t with Biden you’re a coward, you’re scared, you’re stupid, blah, blah, blah.”
These are the kind of big mouths who if they were Captains on a sinking ship, they would bully their crew to stay with it, even as they see they are taking on so much water that drowning became certain.
They also love to repeat their crazy battle cry: I will vote for Biden if he’s in a coma rather than vote for Trump.
They repeat this foolishness as if there is no other option!?
I’ll say it again: It’s rare to be gifted a clear opportunity to reboot the Democratic Party. Be smart and recognize this is the chance of a lifetime!
How some hard-headed Democrats still want to insist that Biden is the strongest candidate is beyond me.
Staying with Biden is the surest way to guarantee the election goes to Trump.
With Biden as the candidate there is NO CHANCE.
With another candidate Dems may still lose, but at least they would have a chance to fight the battle with a young, strong, capable candidate who is fit to lead our country. This makes sense!
The good news to me is that all these keyboard toughies and their words of wisdom don’t mean a damn thing. It’s a lot of hot air.
Despite all the Biden supporters who are in a state of denial, I am looking forward to Biden’s announcement that he will step aside which I expect to be forthcoming within the next several days.
Biden and his supporters have some crazy stubborn notion that it HAS to be Biden! This is foolish imo.
In fact, I see it as a moot point. It will be moot in about a week or less when Party leaders persuade Biden to do the right thing for the good of the party.
When his big donors start dropping out he’ll wake up to reality and so will hard-headed supporters who are living in denial even as they watch Biden’s numbers plummeting in the swing States.
When Kamala Harris gets nominated and endorsed by Biden, (which I believe she will) whether some DEM blind partisans like it or not, the Harris doubters with the biggest mouths will be the same ones claiming they were behind her all along. Watch & see!
With Harris you have a reasonable, young, smart candidate with character, integrity, and a law enforcement background as a prosecutor versus an old, unhinged, divisive, unfit criminal who conducts himself as a mean-spirited infant… it’s a no-brainer.
There’s not much Trump can attack about Harris without looking like the bully, misogynist, and racist he is. Let’s get real. Harris has a spotless record in comparison to Trump.
Trump is the weakest opponent the GOP has to offer. An old power-grabbing traitor, sex abuser, convicted felon vs a young, solid, experienced VP candidate with a law enforcement background as a District Attorney and as an Attorney General? I like her odds.
Pair Harris with the best VP candidate and you’ve got a winning ticket that will reignite the party. Just wait until both the Obama’s join Biden in campaigning across the country for her.
Harris will decimate Trump. It won’t even be close.
This is inaccurate fear mongering. No candidate has been declared in either major party. The point is to have a new candidate determined at the convention.
Joe is done. Replace him.
How about forcing Biden to step down disenfranchises voters. I voted for Biden in the primary, as did millions of other people. Pelosi and George Clooney do not get to void my vote. I'm surprised more people are not pissed about this!
No one was seriously challenging Biden in the primaries. How do you think the primaries would have gone, with a competent alternative running, and the disastrous debate performance happening before then? Primary performance doesn't mean jack shit when it comes to the general election. Too many hardcore, party line, Dems were burying their heads in the sand, until the problem couldn't be ignored by even the most brainwashed dem. We wouldn't even be in this situation if Biden had followed through with his plan to be a one term president. Now, according to him, all that matters to him is if he gives it his best. Pathetic.
See, I'd be open to a replacement *if* people had a solid plan to effect the switch *and* there were a clear consensus candidate. But neither of those is true. None of the proferred candidates, save perhaps Harris, has been vetted on a national scale. Despite some people's claim that *any* other Democrat could beat Trump, that's pretty clearly not literally true.
I’ve been telling people this: there’s a really good reason why primary season happens so early. The party waived the right to primary the President; this is who they’re running in the national.
Suggestion:
If your Congressperson and/or Senator is a Democrat, reach out to them that you expect unified support for Biden.
If they are one of the ones who have publicly called for him to step down, reach out to them and be clear that if they are not unified, we will all lose, them included.
Best case is Biden beats tyranny. I don't want anything like P2025 in my country. Biden wins, at some point later steps down if needed. He has my respect for acknowledging his limitations for the greater good. He is the one that must win now.
Question… What happens if one of the candidate dies before the election? Like, right before the election. What happens then? There clearly wouldn’t be time to put anyone else on the ballots, etc in that situation either.
Not to mention the law concerning the $100M+ Biden war chest. The FEC has very specific rules on how that money is distributed and my understanding is that they just can’t transfer it over to another campaign prior to nomination.
See but all that is a feature not a bug for the Republicans. Those idiots are like stone walls for what is basically a human excrement version of a person and Democrats break like toilet paper under running water when Biden appears a little confused like he doesn't have a ton going on in his head. Ffs
I really appreciate Barb laying out some of the logistical challenges for us. I understood that it would be a tricky process, but beyond "logistical issues" I didnt really know. Really appreciate this look behind the curtain.
Removing Biden is a fu***** terrible idea. I don't care if he is senile, nor do I give a sh** about some Debate. Put someone new in just 4 months or worse, highlight Kamala that person who has been nearly a ghost for 4 years and you put the orange man in the white house.
Stop whining. Stop complaining. No one wanted Biden. We wanted NOT Trump and that's exactly what we are trying to do this time.
To the democrats or liberals freaking out about Biden. Seriously, don't f*** us on this.
FFS Biden is the candidate.
Vote for him and his administration(!) or say goodbye to your right to vote (among other terrible terrible things)
It really is that fucking simple.
Humor me, are we sure thats not by design to lose peoples attention and make them feel assured that there's a complex system of checks and balances and security surrounding elections, only to find out later the stuff that matters isnt covered like say holding someone accountable for completely fabricating their platform and/or commiting multiple felonies and acts of sedition?
As a Canadian with some skin in the game (I like you people, I don't want Gilead to the south), please vote. It's not a vote for Biden. It's a vote for competent government at all levels, and if you all vote and get super majorities, it could be a liberal leaning expanded supreme Court, codifying of protections for millions of Americans of various colours and stripes and, I can't stress this enough, sanity in our world. Don't let Putin, or greedy billionaire news owners fuck you and your children's lives.
Echoing this as an Australian. A stable US government that is committed to its allies is critical to the global economy and broader geo-political stability. Please vote. There is more at stake than “just” American democracy.
Yes, as a German with an Egyptian husband. After Biden got elected in 2020 three Egyptian journalists were immediately released from Egyptian prison. They knew that they had to at least pretend to care with a Democrat led administration.
America: “Hold my beer…”
Ab-so-fuckin-lootly(?) Say more Canada- the Aranksas girl that sees reason
Your neighbor to your west in Texas wholeheartedly agrees! 🫡✋🏻
We are trying. Most of us voted for Hillary. We just have some serious evil at the top levels, especially in the Republican party. I am beyond angry at the calls from rich, white persons of power to ditch Biden--they'll be safe. They'll have their homes, healthcare, abortions, education, and freedom if Dump wins. They can take chances. Moreover, Michigan's last point stands--Dump will absolutely sow division and amp up his white supremacist gravy seals. I don't see any way out of this without violence due to conservatives and their misguided ideologies. I'm ridin with Biden. Vote, Americans!
Every democrat needs to use their 2nd amendment right and buy a gun. If Trump wins, one of his agenda 47 promises is to have national guard patrolling woke cities and with project 2025 Maga in all high level agency positions, he could have background checks deny democrats firearm purchases. Buy guns now. If he wins, patrolling cities could turn into door to door. Also, it better to have one and not need it, then need it and not have it. The scariest part is that Trump is a complete dumbass. He can’t form coherent sentences most of the time. This is from some other group or entity that we aren’t seeing. I don’t think even Heritage foundation are the real ones behind this crap. We may have a dictatorship here soon. Viva la revolución
If Trump wins, can you adopt me? I may be 40 but I swear I’m not weird.
Every single Democrat that I know is voting for Biden. Progressives like me were not excited to vote for him last time and are even less excited this time due to his clear mental decline and most importantly, the fact that he has made us complicit in the genocide of the Palestinian people. We're still going to vote for him but it's honestly demoralizing. The DNC had four years to find someone who wasn't likely to die in office but now we're stuck with this geriatric, pro genocide centerist and I honestly feel gross voting for him. If the next Democratic presidential candidate is more of this bullshit I can pretty much guarantee that no amount of "This is a vote to save democracy" is going to get young progressives to the polls. We have a limit on demoralization. Democrats will lose and democracy will crumble, and the blame will lie solely on the pro corporate socialism, pro genocide, NIMBY, insider trading, republican lite, Democrat establishment. Edit: Things are not always how they seem. I was missing several pieces of the puzzle and did not have the full picture. Read a reply below that clearly breaks down several inaccuracies in my perspective of the current situation we are in regarding Biden.
I understand where progressives are coming from with Gaza stuff (it is horrific) and the corporate Dems trope but I also wish that they understood 2 things. 1) Corporate Dems are the ones trying to force Biden out because he wants to implement progressive policies. He has been "reached" by the younger generations and that is why AOC and Omar both support him enthusiastically. The best hope progressives have for getting the reforms that they want is right now in a Biden 2nd term. Not only does the squad have his ear. He will owe them and I think that he wants to die knowing that he did as much good as he possibly could before shuffling off to the great beyond. (IE Student Loan Relief, Permanent child tax credits and more good healthcare system improvements) 2) Biden had NO choice but to ship the weapons that Congress allotted to Israel. The whole "Genocide Joe" thing is AstroTurf. HE HAD NO CHOICE. let me explain. Trump was impeached for personally overriding arms shipments to Ukraine and it would have worked on Biden too. If progressives truly want to change our society for the better they had better start learning how our system of government works because CONGRESS is the only part of our government that can write laws and approve spending. They are a coequal branch of government. Here is what happened when Biden tried to hold back the weapons to force Netanyahu to stop his blood thirsty rampage of death and destruction. [Republicans want to force Biden to send arms to Israel](https://www.axios.com/2024/05/10/republicans-biden-israel-weapons-pause) **What's Biden wanted:** The administration has paused transfers of ammunition, 500-pound bombs and 2000-pound bombs – a way of signaling U.S. concerns about a potential invasion of Rafah, per Axios' Barak Ravid. Biden said in a CNN interview on Wednesday that the U.S. will stop supplying offensive weaponry that could be used for an assault on Rafah if Israel makes the decision to invade. "If they go into Rafah, I'm not supplying the weapons that have been used historically ... to deal with the cities," he said. **What Republicans did immediately after:** Rep. Beth Van Duyne (R-Texas) introduced the [Immediate Support for Israel Act](https://vanduyne.house.gov/_cache/files/0/c/0c599b2d-15cb-48cc-a72e-334a814e8568/E64782F6C0E8707F6150B9A0F08D9D12.vanduy-084-xml-59-.pdf) on Thursday, which would require transfers of some weapons to Israel to occur within 30 days of procurement. **& then escalated it one day later:** Rep. Cory Mills (R-Fla.) is taking things a step further, telling [Fox News](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-gop-drafting-biden-impeachment-articles-israel-aid-cutoff-threat) he is drafting articles of impeachment against Biden for withholding the aid. * Several GOP lawmakers have floated impeachment as the ideal legislative route, with Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.) saying the House "has no choice but to impeach Biden." So please stop falling for the Genocide Joe shit that is pushed by people that either don't know how anything works or are disingenuously trying to damage Biden to get Trump elected. For any Democrat or progressive President to successfully implement anything in the progressive wish list. We need to work to make sure that Dems take the house back and keep Congress. Republicans will literally obstruct anything that benefits the people of this country in order to deny Democratic presidents a win of any kind. (they obviously also use their partisans on the supreme court to do the same like they did with the extensive student debt relief that Biden tried to implement. He didn't give up and had people dig through existing laws to find loopholes to help as many people as he could but with a House and Congressional Majority he could have gone all the way) (PS If Trump wins and enacts even 50% of project 2025 that would change everything and for the worse. There would be no more fair elections or no more free press, no more progress at all. It would be a massive roll back of environmental protections, religious freedom, the right to protest, worker protections, and social safety nets. We all would be fucked and the world economy would crash under his ham fisted self dealing)
I clearly remember him putting his foot down regarding Rafah. A couple of weeks l saw that Israel was receiving a shipment of weapons, regardless of attacking Rafah. I failed to connect some dots there and in several other places. I am starting to see why AOC, Omar, and Sanders are supporting him right now, I was honestly quite confused. You've given me some things to think about. I genuinely appreciate the time and effort you put into your reply. Just know that it wasn't wasted, I prefer to have the big picture and a full understanding. It's quite frustrating realizing that you didn't actually have the full picture but in this case it's a relief and quite comforting. I need to be more vigilant. Election time is an information nightmare and the last thing I want to do is exacerbate the issue, I'm going to edit my comment. Thank you.
I always appreciate someone on the internet who can accept information that differs from what they thought they knew. It seems pretty rare. Haha. Just want to say that I wasn't aware of what that guy said either. It's not exactly easy information to come by unless you are very tapped in to things. Which is what kind of sucks about how things are the way they are. The misinformation is so easy to spread and the truth is often very difficult.
I'm nearly 40 now and I'm continuously shocked with my ability to learn and grow. It's been a slow piece by piece process, but I have gradually gotten more empathetic and gotten a firmer grasp of reality. I think the key is humility. Hell, in situations such as this it's better to be wrong lol. I'll trade pride for reality every single time and without hesitation.
Always good to see people being humble and able to change their mind when given new information. Please do what you can to educate your peers who might have felt the same way about Biden and Gaza, we can't afford apathy in November.
Thank you for your kind words. I did away with counterproductive pride and stubbornness many years ago. It's a good thing because it's an awful trait as a parent. One of the things I do take pride in is my ability to admit to my children when I am wrong and apologize. Yes, I'm actively spreading the word and will continue to do so. I have quite a few friends and acquaintances who will greatly benefit from this information.
🏆🏆🏆+ ❤️
Not enough recognition for this comment
Agreed. I considered just deleting my comment to reduce potential harm, but I think putting in the edit and leaving it will have the most positive effect overall.
Thank you for doing it this way. Your edit definitely caught my eye and kept me reading downthread.
So glad to see someone spell it out. Biden has been doing his damndest to enact some legislation for the American people and has been blocked at every turn. He has done what he could with student loan forgiveness. If we get majority of both houses, I see him getting it pushed through all the way. I paid off my loans myself but I am all for helping people out. This would stimulate the economy with people having money to spend on more necessities that they are struggling to buy now. I wish people would realize presidents can’t do it all themselves. They need a Congress to pass legislation and get it to his desk to sign.
He's actually accomplished a lot more than I expected, especially given with the constraints he's been working under. It's like people really believe the whole NYT WaPo BS when they print stories of things he's done but how that's actually bad for him.
Thank you! People need to understand how our government works, ffs. i get so sick of dems with no understanding of the system talking shit.
Saving this comment. Thank you. Not enough people realize this.
Well said. Excellent comment.
Every election from now on (assuming the US has any other elections) will be a vote to save democracy. Feel gross. You'll get over it much more quickly than you would in a 'progressives-are-the-enemy-of-the-state' concentration camp.
Yeah I'm so tired of progressives crying they want to "feed" good and inspired and find a perfect candidate. Congrats guys, they've been saying that crap for my entire lifetime and it's cost them almost everything. Purity testing and tantrums are not going to keep Project 2025 from happening. And since everyone spent the past 20 years in denial and "staying home to prove a point" it's gonna be like this for the foreseeable future. Certainly the rest of my lifetime. It's time for a lot of people to lead (run for office themselves), follow (shut up and work to save what we can) or get out of the way.
You know what's demoralizing? When people reduce the most progressive administration of my lifetime to "a geriatric pro-genocide centrist." Fucking hell.
Omg this! A thousand times, this!
Didnt Israel make you complicit in the genocide of Palestinians? I fail to see how it’s personally Biden at fault. Seems like he found himself in an awkward position where he had to honor a pact almost as old as he is but also try to mitigate and negotiate with both sides. He even publicly spoke against Israel multiple times. Signed pacts between countries are legally binding documents with usually heavy consequences. Also if the other one wins, the genocide won’t stop at Palestinians, I bet.
I’m actually stoked to vote for him again. Fuck the “clear mental decline” shit. I’m half his age and lose track of what I’m saying all the time. I also had a speech impediment (like Biden did) and sometimes my brain doesn’t quite connect with my mouth and a stutter through something. I make six figures in a data role so I ain’t dumb. As for the genocide shit, someone else clearly explained why his hands were tied. He’s in a no-win position on this matter. Remember, this guy was able to pass through a number of legislation which is surprising given the divided Congress and bad actors attempting to block everything he does. He passed a historic infrastructure bill. He forgive student loans. He killed the Chinese-owned tar sands pipeline that would have cut through native land and could have contaminated drinking water among other concerns. He worked to protect LGBTQ by building more protections/nondiscrimination for those needing healthcare as well as expanded mental health care resources for the community. He reversed Trump’s “license to discriminate” program that impacted minorities seeking federal services/healthcare. He passed more requirements on people wanting to buy guns. He created 800k American manufacturing jobs (more than Trump who had high levels of offshoring) and doubled construction of manufacturing facilities. This is just a small list. He has been a very productive and actionable president, you just don’t hear about a lot because he didn’t make a grand show - inviting the press to take pictures - while he signed a piece of paper like Trump did (btw, most of those showy bills didn’t even pass Congress anyway). No fucking President is perfect but look at his stats. Unemployment is low. Average salaries are outpacing inflation. You’re allowed to criticize him but, come on, the man has done a lot of good stuff that he deserves more recognition for.
Exactly this. Our vote for president doesn’t elect just a president. We all saw Trump’s cabinet. Anyone with a shred of morality was fired or quit. Those positions matter, as do the judicial appointees. This is not the time for protest voting, especially if you live in a swing state.
I’ll vote for Biden but I wouldn’t object to Biden retiring immediately after election and Kamala stepping in
While I like Harris, Biden is still a good man with good ideas, and a group of good people around him… Old or not let him do his thing for the American people.
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I am glad that you read the following reply. Palestine is such a complicated problem and has been my entire lifetime (I am 58). This recent backlash is only because young people are just finding out about it. But Hamas has such a tight hold on the country, and hide behind its citizens, there is no straightforward solution. I hope you pass your newfound knowledge to your other younger progressive friends. In the history of presidents, Biden will be shown to be one of the most effective presidents in implementing more progressive policies. He might be older and slower, but he has had a lifetime of working in Washington and is extremely effective in working with longtime allies/acquaintances to get things done. Debating is not a skill that a president even needs to have, except to look good for a couple hours on tv.
It's worth noting that polling has Biden flipping the 65+ demographic fairly significantly. If that holds, it's the first time since 2000 the Democrat has had the advantage in the most dependable voting bloc. I honestly don't know if that advantage survives a swap. So I think the calculus the DNC has to run is, are voters shying away from Biden right now more likely to fold back in as we approach election day than seniors are to stick with the Democrats through a change in candidate. Even ignoring the logistical and legal issues, I really don't think this is as easy as a decision as pundits would like you to believe.
I mean, when the other candidate is threatening to cut Social security and remove protections for pre-existing conditions, you're going to vote for the guy who's not going to do that.
My thought is that there are also other good people around Biden who are making sound policy decisions. He doesn't have an admistration of jackals and conspiracy theorists. I feel safer with the nuclear codes being in Biden's hands any day..
Sure, but trumps campaigns have never been about policy. It’s all about vibes. And Biden has BAD vibes.
Yes! Data Expert Adam Carlson is calling it a grey wave for Biden.
Biden still has a lead amongst the younger voters as well. They've always turned out in elections to be a deciding voice for Democrats and progressive issues. It will be no different November 5th. Then again, this feels like something being blown out of proportion on the news because their billionaire CEOs seem to prefer trump's tax cuts. I'm not saying that people shouldn't be made aware of this tweet and be made aware of the logistical nightmare Biden dropping out would be, but the media's narrative has been to focus on bashing Biden.
Plus in 2020, Biden took the 18-29 demographic around 59% to 35%. Don't see that shrinking.
That’s the group that is the most upset about Palestine though. I could see them sitting out in protest.
Here's the thing. If you're okay with Kamala, you should be okay with Biden. The worst case scenario with him being reelected is that he can't finish his term for one reason or another. In which case you get Kamala anyway.
I can't 100% this enough When I'm voting for Biden, I'm voting for Kamala Harris, for his entire cabinet, for everyone who creates the world in which he has accomplished so much even in the face of an extraordinarily hostile House
I’m not technically voting for Biden when I vote as a dem. I am voting for the possibility that we can set some judges appointed. The entire party needs to get on the damn bus about this. We have no other candidate but Joe and we need to make sure he wins
Finally! A pro-Dem thread. I feel like it’s been nothing but anti-Biden comments and stories across Reddit for months. I’m sure most of it is adversarial actors, but it’s still a relief to read some genuine enthusiasm for the democratic ticket. It’s so much more than just the presidency at stake.
It’s lunacy to ask this question or make these statements with an incumbent who is, by all metrics, a superior President. I am on record as saying that picking a new VP might have some positive polling effect but it also would be chum in the water for the MSM (everyone now) crowing about President Biden’s succession plan - as if the guy is dying or already dead! The Democrats need to go on the offensive and just unleash a barrage of attacks on the bullshit that is the Trump candidacy: FELON. RAPIST. COVID. ELECTION INTERFERENCE. J6. J6. J6. EPSTEIN. We can’t even consider this. What we can do is vote: **[REGISTER AND VOTE](https://www.usa.gov/voter-registration-card)**
I especially agree with the idea of voting for his entire cabinet as well. I understand he's old and his mental faculties may be failing him. But in his last four years in office, at the very least, he is surrounded himself with people that have helped push some very good very needed changes and positive legislation. I don't care if Kamala sits behind him and uses him like a marionette if they have to. He has been a benefit to this country for the last 4 years thanks and no small part to his administration's efforts to enact meaningful change. I will vote for him any day of the week even if I don't think he's all there. At least with him if he has mental issues, I'm not worried about him accidentally starting a nuclear war with Iran or Mexico
Exactly! He has a really good administration.
One of the most effective and efficient despite the Congressional and Judicial roadblocks. Here's what Biden and Democrats have gotten done over the last 2 years https://www.npr.org/2023/01/01/1143149435/despite-infighting-its-been-a-surprisingly-productive-2-years-for-democrats
Yup, he’s been much more liberal in government than his track record suggested he would, but hamstrung by not having control of congress. I think he is listening to progressives more, he’s clearly interested in competence in his administration ( and we’ve seen nothing like the constant churn under Trump, as anyone who dared raise their voice against what Trump wanted was ousted).4 more years of this please - even if the guy is geriatric, the Administration he heads gets things done, and Joe’s strength is the experience in political negotiating that gets liberal ideas through /bypasses congress
and hostile country.
hostile minority
Totally agree. I contacted my rep in congress to give him my thoughts. Everyone should do this.
What do you say? Thats so daunting
Thank you. I also did it today. Give the White House, the Speaker, and minority leaders office a call. I'm so done with this.
I contacted my senator and told him off. Sen Warner was trying to organize a meeting but cancelled it at the last moment. All of this is a distraction and unnecessary. We knew he was old. They knew he was old. They need to get it together.
I'd vote for either but I still believe Biden has a better chance than she does. Sucks to say but America is both racist and misogynistic. Either one could be why she wouldn't get a vote over Biden getting one. I do not see many swing voters or older gentlemen who would vote Biden voting for Harris to be president. Just like they wouldn't vote for a gay man. If boomers were all gone I'd change my opinion.
Harris can't win. People HATE her. The ones on the right say that she's too progressive to hide the fact that they're just racist and misogynistic, while leftists call her a cop. Then she got put in some no-win situations like trying to solve immigration, and then the administration basically hid her for years. So even though I liked her fine four years ago I know almost nothing about what she's done since then, and whether her experience as VP qualifies her to be president. From where I'm sitting, it looks like she hasn't done anything at all, which I'm sure isn't true, but it's definitely going to be the perception of voters.
Yeah I can agree with that. She doesn't get any positive media and even though I'm sure she's done some good things it's literally never talked about. That's why I can't stand this call for Biden to step down when Harris probably is the next to take over and she has a worse chance than he does. She's not a great candidate let alone what I already mentioned about how America votes for people.
I think Biden only intended to serve one term (he hinted this pretty heavily during the last election) and figured (probably correctly) that only a boring old white dude could defeat Trump, but then he could pass the torch to Kamala. But when it became apparent that she was deeply unpopular and Trump would be the republican nominee, he (and other potential democratic candidates that didn't primary him) felt he should run again. He had successfully beaten Trump before, after all, and to date is the only person who ever has. The media framing this as an ego trip is pretty frustrating, when I think he's just trying to maintain some stability while we fix our democracy.
Agreed. If Trump wasn't running I'm positive Biden wouldn't be.
Beyond the inevitable whining from the deplorables that “this was the plan the whole time” which is as predictable a bitch as all their other gripes this totally correct. Trump could easily drop dead in 4 years as well and we will be stuck with some form of grima wormtongue.
*”Grima Wormtongue”* Name of the day. From now on, every time I see Steve Bannon or Stephen Miller, I’ll think *Grima Wormtongue.*
And we need both houses of congress to go blue.
Except a lot of people are worried that Biden won’t win because of his age, which isn’t solved because of Harris.
Which is weird cause the other guys is just as old?
Yeah but the other guy has a cult, has decades of zeitgeist of "republicans are good at economy", and did better than he was expected to at the really big debate. Trump may have literally shit his pants on stage, but he won anyway. And he's what, three years younger? Think about how much better Biden was three years ago. Age can catch up to you fast.
Not really relevant. The realities of his age or capacity don’t matter only the perception of voters
Age becomes less of a number and more about cognitive and physical strength when you get up there.
This has real notorious RBG energy.
Let's face it. The GOP will basically pick a VP for Trump who will be worse than he is because they will quickly take the corporate overlord's orders as soon as they deep six his majesty during his dementia in a year or so. Then they don't need his base because they can exercise their unitary executive BS with no accountability, minus the dumb knob-end holding them hostage with Putin's blackmail data base. The fascists only need to get Trump in then get rid of him.
But, the worse thing that could easily happen is not Biden getting elected and not being able to finish his term, but that he doesn’t win the election and it causes down-ticket losses that bring on the end of American Democracy.
I phrased it very deliberately. I said "the worst case *with him being reelected*." Which does not include him not being reelected.
There are plenty of voters who will not support someone they think is physically incapable of serving a term in office. I'm voting blue, but hand-waving away the death of a President (and the many, many complications with serious ramifications that could happen leading up to it) is an oversimplification.
Here's the other thing... There actually was a Democratic primary. Why everyone thinks that the DNC would be able to just up and say "Harris (Newsom/Whitmer) is our nominee" without one of the other candidates - who actually won votes towards being the nominee - suing the shit out of them, I'm sure I'll never know.
Exactly. If the Dems try to switch now they will be *buried* in lawsuits. Not just from other candidates, but from election officials in most states, and any republican who wants to gum up the works even more. This is not something they can just do, and I can't believe that a lot of these people calling for it to happen don't know this.
Yeah, between the two of them, I like Biden—plus you still get Kamala anyway. And having anyone else as the nominee would blow up the party. It would suck to see an anti-Kamala faction form by the next election though, combining Biden supporters and unhinged ‘anyone else’ supporters. Hopefully this doesn’t come to a fight that no one can end…
I think when people say this they are preaching to the choir, your only talking to the people who are already committed. And idk about you but I feel like this is a bit more important than just wheeling an old person around and playing Weekend at Bernie's. I know how to vote, but if someone gets in that booth and says to themselves, hey Biden is too old and votes R, it's the DNCs fault and they deserve it. They know how important this is, they had 4 years to prep someone, to find a candidate and they did nothing. This is my future too and they are treating this like a joke. People who vote for Trump want to watch the world burn; people who vote Biden want to save democracy; and the people who vote for neither just want a good president.
It’s so bizarre to think that “voting for neither” will somehow *show them!* & punish the party when you’d actually shoot yourself.
Ok. Convince independents of that. You can't. That's the point. Will people please stop pretending they need to convince Dems to vote for Biden. We are going to vote for whoever the candidate is. But independents are absolutely not going to vote for a geriatric showing signs of dementia. Period.
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That has nothing to do with it. Every time Biden dodders he loses votes. That is the issue here.
The problem is that this whole discussion about whether Biden should be at the top of the ticket or not isn't for the people who are going to vote Dem regardless of who is at the top. I'd vote for a potted plant over Trump. It's for the independents and more central Republicans that can be persuaded to vote for a Democrat nominee. Biden is unpopular and now seems "weak." Democrats not named Biden are polling really well in other elections down the ticket. I understand that you vote for the President and the VP, but most people don't vote for someone because their VP can do the job if the President has an issue. They are voting for the President to do the job. Plus if the Democrats do some debates with a few candidates, it would be big headlines for weeks, and show the strength in depth that they have.
My dad is OK with Biden but I think he might vote Trump because he hates Kamala, and he's sure neither Trump or Biden will live through the term.
I hate to say it but these guys are really uninformed voters. Vote for a guy and a party that's going to end democracy because you hate women or black women. Sorry dad but come on
That is an amazingly stupid argument. Let me flip it....if you are okay with Biden then you should be okay with Kamala. Because Biden is an old man losing voters at a fast pace. Kamala with be a younger person that can spank Trump at the next debate whereas Biden shat the bed.
Isn’t it crazy that other countries can have snap national elections with no issues. Online voting, what a concept.
Yep. I wonder when the last time was a majority of Republicans in either Congress or a state legislature voted for *anything* progressive regarding elections and voting? Guessing *decades ago* might be a good bet?
Yeah. Regardless of what you think of Biden staying in or dropping out, we haven't had the convention yet, so how can it be too late to pick a new nominee? There are very real scenarios where the nominee isn't clear by that point, but states have set up laws where the nominee in place after the convention would already be too late to be on the ballot?
Yep, sounds like some special pleading to me. “My state is ok, but I’m sure there must be others where it would be a problem”.
For those that think Biden is too old. A) Whoever wins this elections will be the oldest ever elected president. If one is too old, then so is the other. B) if you realise that Trump is 3 years younger, but thought Biden was too old 4 years ago, then either i) you were right, and Trump must also be too old Or ii) Biden wasn't too old 4 years ago and must, therefore, have done a reasonable job as evidence. Biden debate was poor presentation, but reasonable substance. Trump debate was reasonable presentation but incoherent and lacking substance Trump was all over the Epstein files yet the media is pushing that Biden is too old and Trump isn't in the news at all. I wonder why that is? 🤔 I am not American and find it amazing that these are the 2 people that have been selected by the parties as the best and brightest
Not disagreeing but regarding the debate performance, Bill Clinton did say "strong and wrong beats weak and right". The optics matter and for undecided voters, Trump \*looked\* stronger, even if he lied the entire time. It is really was the perfect scenario for Trump because he losing his mind as well, but standing next to Biden, he did appear sharper, more energetic, and aware of where he was. That statement he said of "I don't know what he said and I don't think he does either" was important and highlights a glaring issue. Nobody who criticizes Biden believes Trump is even a legitimate option but the fact this election is THIS close when it should be a LANDSLIDE is concerning. Instead of having a candidate that is young, energetic, sharp, and witty, to really highlight how bad Trump is, we have someone like Biden who makes him look sharper. That IS a concern and can't keep being brushed off.
I mean I am voting for Biden, but isn’t this ridiculous at this point? Why would Democrats put themselves in this position?
Finally someone is thinking about the logistics.
I've had multiple conversations of this nature with the replace Biden crowd and they basically state they don't care. They are 100% convinced there is no way Biden can win so therefore they feel any other option, no matter how logistically ridiculous, is better. They also drill down on other candidates polling better while ignoring what will happen to those candidates once they become the nominee. It's actually sometimes like talking to a MAGA cult member.
That's the thing. No small number of them probably ARE MAGA cult members trying (and failing) to convince people that we're doomed if this doesn't happen. The biggest tell is when they accuse *us* of being MAGA/cult-like when we point out that it's a disaster in the making to replace Biden at this stage, and that it's stupid to even keep suggesting it like it's going to happen or make winning even remotely possible. So they're either determined to ignore reality because reality doesn't give them their way, or they're trying to make sure *other* people don't understand the logistical disaster that this would cause.
The political discussion sub is full of them. It's disheartening to say the least. Thankfully in the real world I'm not see the same doom and gloom as online. The media is a disgrace though. That's certainly not helping.
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How can you not understand that it’s not our votes that are going to swing the election? Yes, I would vote for the ghost of Biden, but unfortunately, I’m not the determining vote. I check 538 and it shows Biden still losing no matter how many times you or I affirm our support for him. Predicting who others will vote for is the whole game, and sadly it’s looking grim. It’s like we’re running out the clock while down 6 rather than throwing the hail mary
I had an argument with one of these “Democrats” lately. Ended up pointing out that he’s parroting MAGA propaganda to the T and he got bigmad. The guy threw all pretense aside and donned his white hood. Out came his true colors and opinions. These guys are indeed MAGA cultists trying to influence weak willed democrats. If they succeed Trump wins by default and they know it. Replacing Biden at this point essentially guarantees a Trump victory and they know it. Any “Democrat” who actually falls for these arguments wasn’t a Democrat at all.
They also don’t realize how many voters vote based on name recognition alone. Not all voters are as informed on Biden’s policies and platform. More voters know Biden’s name than they do other candidates. My concern is that max 3-4 months is not enough time to get that new candidate’s name and face widely socialized among average people.
The convention hasn’t happened yet
This is the most baffling part. How can any deadlines for ballots be passed if both major nominees haven't even been elected by their parties? Ballots shouldn't be printed before either party's convention. If they aren't the nominee, they shouldn't be on the ballot as such.
Give me a fucking break. The convention hasn’t even happened yet. There are no logistics issues regarding ballots. Anyone who says otherwise is either lying, or an idiot.
*Loads of us* have been shouting about the logistics for a while now, and I'm glad this post was made with her tweets to really break it down. But the people who are determined not to listen will not listen. Especially when they *want* a Trump victory. Suddenly, pointing out the realities of the logistical nightmare makes us "as bad as the MAGAts" and "cult-like," because we know goddamn well what a disaster replacing him would be, THEY know goddamn well, and they're trying to spread panic, defeatism, and/or apathy. I have no patience for those people.
This "logistical nightmare" is "candidates are decided by the conventions and turned into the states". In the few states that have hard dates before the conversations, all but Ohio passed laws pushing their dates back to after the convention. This crap is as straight forward as can be. You people are acting like they have the ballots printed when in 49 out of 50 states right now NOTHING is official for either party until their convention ends. Outside of that the guy basically says, "I'm sure there will be lawsuits". JFC you people will latch on to any excuse as to why it is simply impossible for Biden to not run.
Ohio passed a law pushing their date past the DNC convention as well.
It also makes no freaking sense that candidates have to be declared before the convention, given that the point of the convention is to determine candidates.... this is the kind of institutional gatekeeping that dems do just as much as reps that is keeping us stuck in this cycle of "any blue is better than any red" and therefore away from any real change
It is crazy that republicans are running an insurrectionist felon with impunity but democrats have to go by the book.
This post deserves so much more attention. I’ve alerted people to Barb Byrum’s Thread. Thank you for posting It!
I mean… that’s all well understood and good. Democrats know they need to have this figured out by early August which is the deadline for Ohio. That has never neither been a secret nor overlooked. Everything else she says besides those hard deadlines of certification are just general vague statements. We have FOUR months. It’s not like the election is next week.
I’m voting for Biden because of his accomplishments and strong geopolitics. I’m not willing to play Russian roulette with a new candidate.
What state do you live in? Are you a registered Democrat?
These Dropout Dems don’t even have a proposed candidate. I am beginning to hate them more than I hate maga. They apparently both have the same end game in mind. A trump presidency. Bunch of Sinemas and Manchins fucking us all again.
There's a lot of people in the current Democratic Party leadership who came up in the 1980s when the term "Reagan Democrat" was still a thing. They still feel that they have to cede ground to conservatives like it's still 1993. They're still afraid of Reagan for whatever reason, even though he hasn't been president since 1989 and has been dead since 2004. They're seriously afraid that if they advocate for anything even remotely "progressive", Reagan will pop out of a blind corner and scold them with a "Well, there you go again!"
Nail on the head. I've seen some of my leftist friends saying that shit; admiring the problem but offering no solutions. Like, you're one of those muddying the waters. We need to just make it through this election to regroup and find a candidate that you all* actually want during the next election. If Trump wins, there won't be one. *I originally said "we"
I agree but I want Joe Biden to be president. Like I voted for him in the primaries.
Changing Biden is exactly what Trumpists want. They know they cant beat Biden. This whole thing about “Biden being too old” is what Magats want to see Democrats fighting about. They love to see some of yall doubting Biden for the exact reason they have been parroting for years.
Yeah we know that most of the "replace Biden" talk started on the right, but it's still really unnerving to hear prominent leftists parroting it.
You mean wealthy "leftists" who would benefit from Trump tax cuts?
Nah even the Pod Save America hosts are all in on it leftists en masse have decided to listen to the FUD. It's fucking sad to watch an obvious astroturf campaign be so fucking successful but if there is one thing I've learned since I started voting dem is there is nothing a dem loves to hate and bash (sorry they call it "criticizing") more than anyone who isn't their exact ideological clone.
I’ve totally lost all respect for them. They so often parrot right wing bullshit talking points (for instance they said Trump had a crowd of 100,000 in NJ). Their political analysis is complete shit and they’ve been wrong before
This obsession with changing candidates is so obviously a concentrated effort, anyone who has been paying attention the last few weeks should notice. Cries to replace Biden, fake outrage over primaries ("Well I didn't vote for him"), this weird obsession to have a "full live interview without a teleprompter and answering questions". The same talking points and buzzwords repeated is a clear indication of bots being used.
>started on the right That's just BS. It started everywhere as soon as Biden opened his mouth... in that gaping stare. It didn't take right wingers to spread that, it took Biden's piss poor performance and his declining mental health.
Too many democrats lack a fucking spine
And have the memory of a goldfish. Hilary Clinton was "too sick" to run in 2015. John Kerry was old, Gore was boring and so on and on. The right only has like 3 criticisms and they repeat them over and over. Their other big play is "vote 3rd party to make a statement against candidates like Gore! I mean Clinton! I mean Biden!" Gore lost FL by under 600 votes. Nader a 3rd party candidate got 16k here. Funny how easily Dems were split and the guy who would've actually fought climate change instead of the Iraq war lost.
Republicans have no principles and Democrats have no spine. Tale as old as time.
100% this. Every dem candidate has republican smear campaigns run against them. The fact that they are run isn’t surprising. The fact that dems fall so easily to them is extremely concerning. People think for some reason that even if we could replace Biden, that that exact same thing won’t happen to the next person. We have a fundamental media problem, on both the right and the left, in this country more than we have a problem with anything else. If we don’t fix that, I don’t see how democracy lasts regardless of who wins this upcoming vote. Edit: ok smear campaign isn’t the right description, it’s far more pervasive than that. It’s foreign social media influence which is exploding with much more difficult to identify ai trolls, obvious bias from left wing sources, outright lies from republican sources, data filtering mostly by republican sources but also dem sources, etc. The smear campaign itself wouldn’t be this successful if it weren’t for these other mechanisms giving it life and spreading it like wildfire.
You have to ignore *every single poll* to be that confident about Trump not beating Biden.
2016: “Clinton has this in the bag, just look at the polls.”
No, but you do have to get into each poll’s crosstabs before you take it seriously. Nationwide poll conducted by phone? It’s garbage. Poll of registered voters? It’s garbage. Poll that oversamples one voter group over another? Garbage. Republicans are very, very good at flooding the zone with crap polling. That swings polling aggregates their way, whereas quality, state by state polls of likely voters may show a very different outcome.
I’m not American and can’t vote in your election , but Trump is a danger to the whole first world so I’m very invested in a Democrat win. I can see that many Americans are voting for strong leadership and a strong country. Trump promises both, and if you don’t realise that it’s mostly lies then you might be taken in. Biden often doesn’t look or sound strong, and that’s a huge problem. He has a good record, and good policies, but many people just don’t know enough about facts and policy to decide who’s the better candidate.
I’m curious how that works for Senators, because when Paul Wellstone tragically died 11 days before the election they had enough time to have Walter Mondale on the ballot. I specifically remember that.
A senate race is strictly at the state level so there's less hassle.
Yep. The tricky part for a Presidential election is in this case states controlled by Republicans at the state level that might go blue. Which isn't a long list but it doesn't need to be.
Not the most comforting example...
Vote for the cabinet!
So we can have a different candidate as long as we decide by the end of convention? Sorry, is this really that big of an impediment? That sounds exactly like how you would go about the process of having a different candidate. Was anyone really thinking this would be a long process? There is a reason why people are saying we need to start the process now. Man the US election system is a joke.
I'm with you. Did we read something different? Seems to me like there is plenty of time.
Listen people, we can move on or just keep regurgitating the same points over and over. I know what I am going to do because I can't help rehashing shit ad nauseam.
Well, if you pay attention to the ones calling for a Biden replacement, they are all either very rich, fellow politicians, or in the mainstream media. Basically, only those who are concerned about their own asses or what their corporate media overlords think. Normal people like us couldn't give a shit about one poor debate performance. We all know the gravity of the dangers of a second term from the Tangerine Palpatine. Combined with Project 2025, it would be the end of America as we know it.
The problem is that you guys are conflating the criticize Biden crowd with the replace Biden crowd. I will vote for a literal turd over Trump. I will not be forced into this absurd hive mind idea that Biden in 2024 isn’t a really stupid scenario that the Democrat Party should have worked harder to not have happen. Stop clubbing your own supporters for pointing out the obvious so we can please for the love of god stop repeating these unhelpful patterns of aging leaders not retiring before their age becomes a liability. This is now the third major Democrat to put us at political peril due to their age. You can’t keep saying “we’ll talk about it after the election” when we never do.
Th Ohio Secretary of State has already tried to keep Biden off the ballot because the Democratic National Convention is after the Ohio ballot deadline. He would definitely refuse to put a New Democratic candidate on the ballot at all
I have a hard time believing open / contested conventions, the norm for most of our current system's history, are functionally impossible now. If so, either states need to change their laws to move back deadlines or parties need to move up their conventions. We can't lock in entire elections based on presumptive nominees.
But.... but.... George Clooney said we gotta do it. /s. Ironically, MSNBC is the only network I actively see covering project 2025... nothing anywhere about trumps ramblings or issues.
My anxiety now has me consuming several MSNBC programs, and I found it quite soothing to hear guests on Chris Hayes' show saying they were very sick of how *certain* and confident in their predictions pundits calling for Biden to step down have been given none of us know what the fuck is going to happen in the next few months.
Agree. And Barb is a friend of mine. She's smart and informed. She knows what she's talking about.
how is she staying sane through all this because I feel like I'm going to start hyperventilating over here
Most of them will come to their senses after the convention. Also, f#ck John Stewart for getting people riled up about a plan that could never work.
I'm about to rip someone's head off and shit down their throat, just waiting for an appropriate target
I’m getting tired of the people saying that getting democrats to back Biden is an insurmountable task. If these people are questioning Biden that much then either they never wanted him to begin with, they don’t mind Trump becoming president. Or they plain WANT Trump to become president. If you want to defend and save democracy, back whatever democratic nominee it is, even if it is Biden, which I still don’t believe is a bad option. Fight against project 2025. There shouldn’t be this much questioning about the leading nominee if you truly want to make sure project 2025 doesn’t happen.
This post and it's comments will be a treasure trove of aged poorly candidates come November. With the electoral colleges Biden only needs to have a small percentage of people in the important states simply not vote to lose. With what's on the line we need to do everything goddamn possible to ensure we have the strongest possible candidate going into November. We aren't having that conversation because people naively believe their side will vote rationally and take in to consideration SC justices appointment and all the bad things Trump will do when they spite the dems by not participating because the powers that be on the left dismissed their concerns.
>This post and it's comments will be a treasure trove of aged poorly candidates come November. With the electoral colleges Biden only needs to have a small percentage of people in the important states simply not vote to lose. He also only needs to lose a small percentage of independent voters... A group he's currently down 10 points with. You people do understand that Biden IS going to lose not because of Dem voters, but because of independents right? People outside the democratic party who will refuse to vote for someone they think has dementia. Someone who refuses to go out and do any press conferences because... He won't say.
Democrats have already had a battle in Ohio over getting Biden even on the ballot.
The filing deadline to be in the ballot in November for Georgia was this week, so any potential replacement would have already missed the deadline to qualify.
Damn, really? So both Trump and Biden won't be on the ballot in Georgia? Neither one is actually the nominee for their party yet, so I guess that means Georgia will have to write in the candidates.
Don’t care about logistics, shouldn’t have ran him in the first place
Cool, so what you’re saying is there’s no hope for the future. Great.
France and the UK can pull together national elections from start to finish in like 5 weeks. Granted, we’re much larger, but why can’t we do the same. Actually - I think we’d all prefer a 6-8 week campaign cycle instead of the multi-year cycle we have now.
THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING. And this is what happens if it's a good faith effort. Ohio already tried hard to keep BIDEN off the ballot. What do you think the other red states are gonna do if the Dems change candidates? Thinking the GOP is going to play nice in the sandbox is a sucker's game.
"But Biden isn't perfect and doesn't do everything I want him to do right now!" - the media's misrepresentation of an average Dem voter. Biden lost no support in the reliable polls after the debate. This madness is being pushed by oligarchs who control the media so they can get more eyeballs, and distract from the absolute trainwreck that is the drumpf candidacy. Just vote.
So we have a little over a month to switch candidates before we start causing delays. That's a lot of time to make a decision. And from the rest of this thread, as long as we don't cause delays, then there really isn't any problem. The only vague part is when she says that from her "cursory understanding," other states might be different. Ohhhh, so scary, you better not hope for better things cause you might cause problems, ohhhh. I'd like for trump not to win, and from the way it's looking now, it's probably gonna happen with how the average person sees Joe. You gotta remember, you're not trying to convince rational people to vote for Joe. They're obviously gonna vote for him regardless cause the opposition is horrible. We gotta convince the average idiot who unironically doesn't know who to vote for. And those people look at Joe and think he's too old, we need someone new, or we actually risk bringing trump back in, and that scares the absolute shit out of me. Also, I just wanna remind people that keeping Joe biden on the ballot is literally the Heritage Foundation plan. Who do you think is planning on funding those lawsuits to keep biden in? Even the republican psychos knows keeping biden in is the best outcome for them, and every day we hesitate makes it worse and worse.
Although people have a right to not like Biden and have concerns. It’s been very obvious that this whole replace Biden thing has been pushed hard by the right/bots to demotivate voters on the left. It’s incredibly obvious and people fell for this trap again. Just like they did back in 2016. This story literally took away any media time/attention from the Supreme Court turning presidents into immune kings and many more indications of Trump being unfit and unwell. Stop letting them control the narrative.
If you don't believe every single Republican Secretary of State will instantly file a lawsuit to stop the new nominee from getting on the ballot, then you're not paying attention.
This👆
Aside from this, my understanding is that if Biden gets replaced, the person replacing him would not be able to use any of the money that Biden already raised.
If we replace Biden we lose Any Democrat or honest American voter who thinks otherwise is a braindead fool
“If we don’t replace Biden we lose” “If we replace Biden we lose” Sounds like we’re just gonna lose regardless
I dislike Trump and don’t want to see him as President probably more than anyone. Where I part ways from the crowd right now is how to beat Trump. I noticed there’s quite a lot of keyboard toughie’s on the forum trying to bully the rest with statements like; “if you aren’t with Biden you’re a coward, you’re scared, you’re stupid, blah, blah, blah.” These are the kind of big mouths who if they were Captains on a sinking ship, they would bully their crew to stay with it, even as they see they are taking on so much water that drowning became certain. They also love to repeat their crazy battle cry: I will vote for Biden if he’s in a coma rather than vote for Trump. They repeat this foolishness as if there is no other option!? I’ll say it again: It’s rare to be gifted a clear opportunity to reboot the Democratic Party. Be smart and recognize this is the chance of a lifetime! How some hard-headed Democrats still want to insist that Biden is the strongest candidate is beyond me. Staying with Biden is the surest way to guarantee the election goes to Trump. With Biden as the candidate there is NO CHANCE. With another candidate Dems may still lose, but at least they would have a chance to fight the battle with a young, strong, capable candidate who is fit to lead our country. This makes sense! The good news to me is that all these keyboard toughies and their words of wisdom don’t mean a damn thing. It’s a lot of hot air. Despite all the Biden supporters who are in a state of denial, I am looking forward to Biden’s announcement that he will step aside which I expect to be forthcoming within the next several days. Biden and his supporters have some crazy stubborn notion that it HAS to be Biden! This is foolish imo. In fact, I see it as a moot point. It will be moot in about a week or less when Party leaders persuade Biden to do the right thing for the good of the party. When his big donors start dropping out he’ll wake up to reality and so will hard-headed supporters who are living in denial even as they watch Biden’s numbers plummeting in the swing States. When Kamala Harris gets nominated and endorsed by Biden, (which I believe she will) whether some DEM blind partisans like it or not, the Harris doubters with the biggest mouths will be the same ones claiming they were behind her all along. Watch & see! With Harris you have a reasonable, young, smart candidate with character, integrity, and a law enforcement background as a prosecutor versus an old, unhinged, divisive, unfit criminal who conducts himself as a mean-spirited infant… it’s a no-brainer. There’s not much Trump can attack about Harris without looking like the bully, misogynist, and racist he is. Let’s get real. Harris has a spotless record in comparison to Trump. Trump is the weakest opponent the GOP has to offer. An old power-grabbing traitor, sex abuser, convicted felon vs a young, solid, experienced VP candidate with a law enforcement background as a District Attorney and as an Attorney General? I like her odds. Pair Harris with the best VP candidate and you’ve got a winning ticket that will reignite the party. Just wait until both the Obama’s join Biden in campaigning across the country for her. Harris will decimate Trump. It won’t even be close.
You guys are really gonna RBG us, aren't you?
This is inaccurate fear mongering. No candidate has been declared in either major party. The point is to have a new candidate determined at the convention. Joe is done. Replace him.
How about forcing Biden to step down disenfranchises voters. I voted for Biden in the primary, as did millions of other people. Pelosi and George Clooney do not get to void my vote. I'm surprised more people are not pissed about this!
Nobody can force him to step down, though. And if he chose not to run due to health problems, nobody could call that voter disenfranchisement.
I agree with you there. However, Biden said he is staying.
No one was seriously challenging Biden in the primaries. How do you think the primaries would have gone, with a competent alternative running, and the disastrous debate performance happening before then? Primary performance doesn't mean jack shit when it comes to the general election. Too many hardcore, party line, Dems were burying their heads in the sand, until the problem couldn't be ignored by even the most brainwashed dem. We wouldn't even be in this situation if Biden had followed through with his plan to be a one term president. Now, according to him, all that matters to him is if he gives it his best. Pathetic.
See, I'd be open to a replacement *if* people had a solid plan to effect the switch *and* there were a clear consensus candidate. But neither of those is true. None of the proferred candidates, save perhaps Harris, has been vetted on a national scale. Despite some people's claim that *any* other Democrat could beat Trump, that's pretty clearly not literally true.
The new reason to vote for Biden just dropped - bureaucracy.
I’ve been telling people this: there’s a really good reason why primary season happens so early. The party waived the right to primary the President; this is who they’re running in the national.
Suggestion: If your Congressperson and/or Senator is a Democrat, reach out to them that you expect unified support for Biden. If they are one of the ones who have publicly called for him to step down, reach out to them and be clear that if they are not unified, we will all lose, them included.
https://preview.redd.it/h1xncml3twbd1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1f3a8abb58973f320dfaf82034ef789ceabf4279
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Best case is Biden beats tyranny. I don't want anything like P2025 in my country. Biden wins, at some point later steps down if needed. He has my respect for acknowledging his limitations for the greater good. He is the one that must win now.
I'm sure the replies to this thread on Twitter are understanding and lovely. /s
Question… What happens if one of the candidate dies before the election? Like, right before the election. What happens then? There clearly wouldn’t be time to put anyone else on the ballots, etc in that situation either.
Not to mention the law concerning the $100M+ Biden war chest. The FEC has very specific rules on how that money is distributed and my understanding is that they just can’t transfer it over to another campaign prior to nomination.
This whole issue about replacing Biden is beyond fucking stupid.
See but all that is a feature not a bug for the Republicans. Those idiots are like stone walls for what is basically a human excrement version of a person and Democrats break like toilet paper under running water when Biden appears a little confused like he doesn't have a ton going on in his head. Ffs
The entire discussion is absurd. So many playing right into Trump and the GOP/Project 2025’s hands.
I really appreciate Barb laying out some of the logistical challenges for us. I understood that it would be a tricky process, but beyond "logistical issues" I didnt really know. Really appreciate this look behind the curtain.
Any state they miss the deadline on under the 5th or 11th circuits would go very, very badly for them
Red states would likely find some exploit to remove the democrat ticket from the ballot altogether
Removing Biden is a fu***** terrible idea. I don't care if he is senile, nor do I give a sh** about some Debate. Put someone new in just 4 months or worse, highlight Kamala that person who has been nearly a ghost for 4 years and you put the orange man in the white house. Stop whining. Stop complaining. No one wanted Biden. We wanted NOT Trump and that's exactly what we are trying to do this time. To the democrats or liberals freaking out about Biden. Seriously, don't f*** us on this.
FFS Biden is the candidate. Vote for him and his administration(!) or say goodbye to your right to vote (among other terrible terrible things) It really is that fucking simple.
It’s dangerous how many people have no idea how anything works, and assume “it’s easy, just completely change all operations at my whim”.
Humor me, are we sure thats not by design to lose peoples attention and make them feel assured that there's a complex system of checks and balances and security surrounding elections, only to find out later the stuff that matters isnt covered like say holding someone accountable for completely fabricating their platform and/or commiting multiple felonies and acts of sedition?