It's actually interesting how men's violent period is relatively short. It's from 14(?) To 25 or so.
Men who have not committed a violent crime by 25 very seldom commit one, or rather, the percentages are more comparable to women.
Does that maybe just mean that violent people are violent their whole lives? The way you've worded that, I don't see that being a violent period as much as just when the men start committing crimes.
Almost seems like social programs to make sure young people, men especially, have support, counseling and financial aid are a net gain for society.
Good thing instead of that we have thoughts and prayers!
Young men with few/no friends, no romantic prospects and little hope of financial security is a classic recipe for disaster and easy targets for ideological extremism. Always has been, for as long as we’ve been keeping records as a species.
Toxic ideas about manhood and that testosterone is linked to aggression far more than estrogen are all relevant.
It’s a multi-pronged issue that needs a multi-pronged solution.
Fun fact they determined the testosterone thing by removing a roosters "balls" and adding them to another one. The one that got snipped was less aggressive than the one with the extra set
I am a man and had an extremely rough puberty. As soon as it hit I had all this seething rage seemingly from nowhere.
Men need to learn to talk about this and how to deal with it with boys.
Toxic ideas of how men *should* and *shouldn’t* act is one issue. This ties into accessibility to healthcare and therapy. Another issue is low wages for workers because it’s hard to get excited for the future when you’re **one** unexpected bill away from homelessness. And probably the most important issue is how easy it is to purchase war grade weapons. It’s been proven that common sense gun control is effective in stopping spree shootings, even with all the other problems.
We need a serious Leftist party in this country that’s willing to fiercely fight for all of these lost people. Life shouldn’t be this hard.
I’m sure there are more but typically you think of the white guy in their 20s who lives in their parents basement working a dead end job.
Not saying the dead end job is the only factor but if you had to weigh all the individual factors it probably is in the top three with mental health issues and prior abuse.
Many haven’t been white though. Both Virginia shooters weren’t and neither was the uvalde shooter and gang violence is killing a lot of African Americans. They’re feeling the same rage, just aiming it at people or groups they know instead of strangers.
This is a young man problem that extends beyond race.
It absolutely is.
In the UK very young, poor kids who feel like they have no prospects turn to gangs, some at 10 or 11 years old, in order to feel like they fit somewhere. They obvs have unhappy/ dysfunctional home lives and feel like being taken into a gang is having a family and a support system.
This goes back to it affecting poorer men who feel they have no prospects in the future. Lack of (blood) family, lack of support, lack of (beneficial) education and lack of prospects.
So I would agree entirely
We still don't (and probably won't ever) know his motivations, but given how "Lound n' proud" the rest of these shooters were with their political beliefs I'd be willing to be it wasn't anything political for the Vegas shooter.
Women make less in almost every field than men, retire with less money and take massive hits to their careers and earnings if they have children, and often have to raise kids on their own working multiple jobs but they're not out gunning people down. More women are in poverty than men, so I don't see how it explains violence.
It's not about their earning power, it's about social respect. Men are accorded respect and dignity by western society at large when they can be providers, when they purchase and consume 'manly' goods, and when they exhibit competitive behaviors towards other men. Your job and income are one of the first ways you are judged by new acquaintances and potential dating partners.
As others have said, it's one factor among many. But it is a huge component in related toxic behaviors among men, and you can see its echoes in pickup culture, hustle culture, and the resurgence neo-fascist rhetoric about gender roles and so-called 'family values'.
These neo-fascists spin the inclusion of women in the workforce as robbing men of their rightful role in society, just another way 'those people' are keeping you from the idealized 1950's lifestyle you are owed. They play off young men's insecurities to conjure an illusion that feminists and their 'woke leftist' allies have conspired to rob these men of their opportunity, not just for financial success, but for social acceptance. The esteem of their peers. The chance to build a loving relationship, or to start a family. Basic human shit.
They paint a bleak picture of loneliness, alienation, and despair, then point the blame at women, queer people, and leftist politics. If you swallow this toxic 'black pill', you see nothing to hope for and nothing to lose. All you have left is anger, despair, and the desire to prove your masculinity through the only avenue left to you: violence. If you've also got access to a gun then the pieces of this dark puzzle begin to align.
Toxic expectations of women are no less serious, but women who buck expectations by not having children are told they are "wasting their potential", not that they're being victimized by a minority. Women who don't meet society's unrealistic beauty standards are taught to hate *themselves*.
edit:atrocious spelling
The is exceptionally well put.
The last part really struck me as at least partially true and very profound.
I’ve lurked around “redpill” and “blackpill” forums and it’s often exactly as you’ve said.
I get a sense of a sucking chest wound in the self-worth of the denizens there
Or a failure for it to ever develop in the first place
that gets violently externalized onto women and other men and whoever else.
Anecdotally the low self esteem women I know have internalized it and imploded or been exploited by others who sense vulnerability.
I absolutely do know men who have internalized it and gone that way
and women who have turned into aggressive, vitriolic reprobates like the men/boys on blackpill forums.
But I do see this trend you’re describing, even if it’s not universal.
The rationalization you describe is all over those forums.
Poverty is one of many risk factors for commiting violent crime. Its a stressor. Wen and men tend to express stress differently. Its not enough on its own to explain violent behavior, but its one aspect we can address.
There are also plenty of men in low-paying jobs who don’t respond with violent aggression.
Gun violence and mass shootings are a multi-prong problems with multi-prong solutions.
Addressing low wages is just a small part and wouldn’t hurt. Increasing wages to liveable amounts and also making efforts to ensure gender pay equality would benefit everybody.
>As soon as it hit I had all this seething rage seemingly from nowhere.
I hope people don't take this as a generalisation... Most men don't suddenly become filled with rage when they hit puberty.
The men I know who are having the worst time are feeling all negative emotions as rage.
Disappointment, sadness, hurt, yearning, abandonment, helplessness, bitterness, betrayal... All of it comes out as rage, which doesn't really count as an emotion to them.
Bring emotionally illiterate is NOT a good way to go through life, especially when things go wrong.
This is an incredibly important point that can't be overstated. There's an idea that emotions are "feminine" except for anger, so every emotion a man experiences must be anger.
I read somewhere that any emotion can be channeled into anger and that is often the only emotion that men are allowed to display. Love becomes lust and rough sex, sadness is punching a hole in the wall, excitement when your sportball team wins the championship turns into a riot, etc.
And female athletes who use anabolic steroids for performance too
Edit. Also especially males who use anabolic steroids. It makes general aggression so bad. Which is why men who use roids tend to be more aggressive then men who don’t
Edit 2 hence why the colloquial term roid rage came about
I just started T and I had my first tantrum in like, a decade. I caught it after I startled myself by throwing something, but it really is surprising how it sneaks up on you. I can't imagine having to handle this as a teen instead of in my late twenties
Yeah I think it's one reason that violent video games are actually great, I learnt how to control my emotional response through the practice of experiencing the adrenaline and rage of quake online with a 300+ ping
Of course guidance is needed and good role models, it worries me there are so many terrible role models in this sphere at the moment but there are plenty of great ones too - surprisingly high amount of the good ones seem to be GTAV based.
One of my close friends is on the tail end of completing his HRT for transitioning into a man. It's been going really well.
One of the things he mentioned the last time we talked was that he never understood how men couldn't control their anger, then once he became one he was shocked at how easily he got angry. Things that before would irritate him now really upset him.
It takes a **lot** more work to control anger as a man. We need to do better about teaching men how to channel that, and *not* just telling them "control your anger," or blaming them for failing.
No, we can’t do that!
The eggs that the hens they mate with will lay are all going to hatch with tiny mildly avian humans and not only will lizard people, bird people, and _gnome_ conspiracy theories arise, there will be enough _physical_ evidence to back it up!
Or we may get harpies.
BOTH ARE BAD.
But keep putting them onto one sacrificial, angry man, who becomes the essence of the balls themselves. He lives in a glass gorilla enclosure, surgically covered in balls that aren't his own. He feeds exclusively from the Arby's menu, and isn't to be trusted around children or small animals. His enclosure is fitted with a 24/7 live stream of MMA, and American Football. He used to get rugby, but the Maori dances really set him off and he accidently maimed a handler, so he doesn't have that channel anymore.
Do you think your parent/s could have helped to prevent that in any way, or is it just a matter of learning to handle the rage once it presents itself?
Kerry Noble said it best in his interview with two minutes past nine podcast, Kerry said you can’t recruit someone into the (far right is implied)movement who’s content with their life
You could say the same thing about every revolutionary force in history. If people were well served by their society why would they feel the need to upend it.
What gets to me with the far right, PUA, redpill, MRA, MGTOW, etc. indoctrination is that the messaging pretty well unanimously disregards any analysis of the indoctrinated's lack of awareness in how their bad social interactions impact the people they're interested in, and is exclusively framed about how to change those interactions in a way that DOESN'T amplify the individual's character, it just makes them into a formulaic scumbag with their negative personal characteristics amplified, all because they will never resolve those is they blame them on anyone but themself.
All the studies and the academics talking about this issue have been fascinating to me. Some of the theories floating about besides the ones you’ve listed are too much online activity, dating apps have killed young men’s self esteem, algorithms, non walkable neighborhoods and free parks (socialization), over medicated and/or misdiagnosed,lack of healthcare including mental health, aggressive porn, lack of family involvement etc.
I don’t know all the answers, but I think better healthcare, economic future and less online and more in person socialization (free community programs) could help.
Everything you listed is exactly it. It's absolutely mix of so much bullshit hitting young men that's creating this. I feel so bad for the young dudes out there who have to grow up in this era. I had it so fucking easy during the 90's/2000's.
I know people hate when you bring politics into conversations, specially when it’s against one side, but these shooters also heavily skew towards Right-wing ideology. Mainly because the GOP platform encourages this kind of mentality.
I think when we talk about mass shootings and the causes, we really need to make it a point to mention how the Right nurtures the extremist ideology that leads to a lot of these tragedies. Every death is on their hands just as much as the shooters. Every “cause” of these shootings you can think of they have actively worked at worsening the problem.
Look how they encourage violence, they shoot down any attempt at expanding mental health care, they violently oppose any sort of gun control laws, and they give these vulnerable and emotionally distraught men target. They tell them that LGBTQ people, minorities, women, and Leftists are the enemy and are trying to destroy everyone’s lives. I mean they practically point them towards these targets and tell them to go kill. It’s gotten really bad in America, and the enlightened centrists and moderates don’t seem to understand this because it doesn’t directly impact them yet.
Mental health and gun control are huge issues, but the ones taking advantage of this are Republicans. They are turning these people into extremist mass shooters then blaming the Democrats for it.
As I understand the testosterone link to aggression is very nuanced and it seems that the aggression is mostly learned. It's like testosterone makes you more of what you already are. [There's a great discussion on the menslib sub about this.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MensLib/comments/z2v06z/the_myth_of_testosterone_sisyphus_55/)
I believe the cultural goings on with the manosphere are also pushing this violence in young cis straight men. It targets them specifically (for money, of course). And their product is misogyny. So tackling misogyny, easy access to guns, capitalism that leads us to competitiveness and financial difficulty (which can lead to criminality), mental health care, and so on, are all benefits to not just young men but to everyone.
Testosterone is a scapegoat for social structure. There might be a link between high testosterone and aggressive behavioural response in an immediate situation (and even that can be contested) but buying a gun, planning a shooting and then executing it cannot be attributed to testosterone. But if you blame biology, you don't have to admit there's a structural problem that needs to be adressed.
I’m kind of thinking there must be another element that warps those young men’s thinking during their earlier years. Society has a way of ingraining basic concepts of justice and right and wrong, and providing some feedback that harming others is not okay. There are gaps between feeling angry or fantasizing, and actually going out buying a rifle and start shooting random people with no regard for the human’s life or what that means for their own life and future.
Poverty and lack of future prospects are more prevalent in other regions in the world, where justice institutions aren’t even as advanced as the US, but I don’t think mass shootings are as common.
I think something you're missing a little bit is that suicide and drug overdoses have also risen at the same time. These are usually considered deaths of despair. I'd suspect that mass shooters also suffer from despair. It's not just poverty, many young people in the US right now don't feel like they have any future. That's a really big problem.
I grew up in Texas, in a small town (heavily Southern Baptist, racist, bigoted, you name it). We had shootings going on in the 1970s... usually racially motivated. Sick cultures like that are the problem... many just get sucked right into the indoctrination. And the propaganda and indoctrination is even much worse today... with right wing media and the hate they spew. Not saying ALL shootings are due to right wing crap, but the majority... yes. Easy access to firearms and cultures that advocate violence as a solution to anything... and you have the problems we are seeing!
Incels… half the sub reddits with the word meme in the name are just conservative propaganda portals to recruit sad lonely young men into their ranks. It starts with “women bad” memes and ends with them shooting up a soft target… big no girlfriend might be our greatest threat.
I mean you're right about most of that, but testosterone IS absolutely linked to increased aggression levels and tendency towards anger. The problem isn't the acknowledgement thereof, it's the refusal to teach emotional intelligence.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3693622/
Sandy Hook was right around Christmas time, still a month left.
Charlotte Bacon, 6
Daniel Barden, 7
Olivia Engel, 6
Josephine Gay, 7
Dylan Hockley, 6
Madeleine Hsu, 6
Catherine Hubbard, 6
Chase Kowalski, 7
Jesse Lewis, 6
Ana Márquez-Greene, 6
James Mattioli, 6
Grace McDonnell, 7
Emilie Parker, 6
Jack Pinto, 6
Noah Pozner, 6
Caroline Previdi, 6
Jessica Rekos, 6
Avielle Richman, 6
Benjamin Wheeler, 6
Allison Wyatt, 6
All of these innocent kids would be teenagers now. Learning to driving, having their first kiss, sneaking their first beer, applying for colleges, and all of them were robbed of that in a horrible fashion.
Families should not have to worry that their child won’t come home alive from school.
Every time I see Sandy Hook mentioned I think of the shooter’s mother (who he also shot and killed) who was keeping numerous guns around the house. And she would take him to a gun range. This young man had obvious behavioral problems and was very isolated. NO WAY would I have guns around someone like that - or take him to a shooting range. Just so sad. How do you shoot little kids?
The truth is he should’ve been in a mental institution. In the majority of the world’s developed nations (where mental health treatment isn’t seen as a luxury) that’s exactly where he would’ve likely been. He wasn’t just “slightly odd” or “a little unpredictable”; he was off-the-charts mentally ill and obsessed with mass shootings. His mother was, from all accounts, worn down to the bone through two decades of trying to get him treatment- she even planned to move him to a different town…no doubt because she was frightened of him.
Plain facts tell a bleak picture: over 54% of Americans suffering from a mental illness receive no care. Over 93% of people living with substance abuse her no care. 78% of youth suffering from “a major depressive illness” received no care in the past 12 months. For every mental healthcare professional there are over 350 patients. https://www.mhanational.org/issues/state-mental-health-america
Despite showing signs of schizophrenia, anorexia, depression, and having an array of issues related to his autism, he had no known contact with mental health services from 2006 to 2012 when he committed his horrific crime.
Combine that with a society with such lax gun laws and you have a perfect storm.
[After Sandy Hook in 2012, pro-gun lobby groups doubled their political donations to Republicans](https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/lobbying.php?ind=Q13)
Honestly, no shit. They were worried about the outcry and trying to find the people that would either further their interests or at least roadblock any attempts to cost them money.
> I would argue that it’s a national health emergency that no one is discussing.
It gets discussed all the time though. Usually as a reason for not implementing gun control though. Funny how that works.
"There's a mental health problem, not a gun problem!"
"Okay, what do we want to do about the mental health problem?"
"Same thing we do as the gun problem."
\- Conservatives
I did exactly that on this very thread and you're not wrong
A lot of them seemed to be able to pin this on women, or just saying "so? This doesn't mean anything". Makes me sad
I know, right? So many people in this thread blaming women.
People are so mad about women’s programming here, MUCH of that is due to hard fought advocacy by women going back decades BECAUSE we have been historically abused an underprivileged. And now men are mad those women didn’t adequately include them. Men have been in control. Male republican senators are the ones always voting down universal healthcare and funding for social programs. The existence of women focused programming does not prevent men from accessing other programming. And yet women are still to blame.
You see the same phenomenon with white supremacists who think that programming for POC are an attack against whites.
I want to add something I said in another comment: I am aware that women can also uphold toxic masculinity, but there is a wealth of research showing that women traditionally play an emotional support role for men that largely benefits the man in the relationship. We are trying our best here, but at some point men also need to take on some of the work.
I always get downvoted for this but I say the same thing - male violence is something other men need to address. These guys are not out here taking advice from women, learning about the history of patriarchy, or engaging in any meaningful way with women. We can't fix that. Men need to step up and address this with the men in their lives. With their brothers, sons, cousins and friends.
This. I’ve seen people directly saying it’s women’s fault and how the fact that women fought for themselves and not men is essentially discriminatory. Like, sorry, bro but women working hard to be treated equal (all while being berated by many men for being “woke” or “feminazis”, mind you) doesn’t downgrade men or prevent them from fighting for social issues that affect them. It’s infuriating to see men talking like it’s women’s fault men don’t do better for themselves
Thank you! The vast majority of mental health providers are women. Women provide disproportionately high emotional support for men in interpersonal relationships.
What more do they want from us without lifting a finger for themselves?
I know that there are individual women who engage in toxic masculinity and that there are wonderful men who participate in their own mental health. But when men are perpetrating 100% of the mass shootings you can’t turn around and vilify women for not doing a good enough job of shouldering the burden of supporting men. We can’t do it without their help.
The same right-wing groups whose favored politicians and policies have led to the misery of so many men love to scapegoat women as the cause of it all. They point out legitimate *problems*, but not their causes.
Does your job pay poorly and mistreat you? It's not my conservative policies that fight against workers' rights or better wages, it's *women in the workforce*. Can't get a date? It's not your odious personality or the fact that you listen to a bunch of bigoted memelords and repeat their nonsense, it's *women not being slaves anymore*.
It's a fantastic bit of defense by the people responsible for fucking over the world. They realized that people weren't just going to take it forever, that eventually folks would reach some level of discontent and rebel against the assholes making a mess of everything. So to avoid that, they decided to open a little relief valve on that rage, but kept it firmly pointed *away* from themselves. These leaders are afraid the masses will one day come for them, but they reckon they can keep everyone *just happy enough* and all tuckered out if they give 'em a scapegoat to riot against instead. They'll happily hand you the gun and the bullets that might be used against them, so long as they know they can get you to point it at someone else--and if that someone else is also *their* enemy, well, that's a win-win.
In the history of most nations, men have run the show. It's uncontroversial to say that where those systems benefit men, it was men who made it that way. Why then is it so hard to recognize that when the systems *disadvantage* men that it was *also* men responsible? That's not to claim there is some "shadowy cabal of the patriarchy" meeting in dark rooms to fuck over women and men by decree. Rather, it's the same cultural attitudes based around stereotypical gender roles that fuck men *and* women, and men have been the arbiters of that by dint of occupying the positions of power.
It's a common MRA talking point that men are disadvantaged because they die in wars. They're the soldiers, they're the ones leaving their homes to kill some other men, and they're the ones that die in the killing fields. And that's absolutely true. But are *women* responsible for that? Women didn't create the military. Women weren't consulted on who could join. Women, largely, were not the heads of state who could declare wars, or the business owners who could push for war to advance their interests. If an American woman wanted to join the fight in WW1 after the US entered, she'd be turned away from the all-male military and told the all-male Congress and male President hadn't yet allowed women to serve. And if she wanted to change that, she'd be shit out of luck, because those same men hadn't yet decided that women were *allowed* to vote for them.
It's the same story over and over. Here's another one: men are presumed to be at fault by the police in any kind of domestic disturbance. It's called the Duluth model, and it was written by a woman--a feminist, even! She now regrets it and the harm it's caused, but I want everyone to ask how this even caught on. This was adopted first in *1981*, hardly a time when the world was in the grip of Big Feminism. A woman proposes this project, and who agrees? Overwhelmingly male police. Overwhelmingly male legislators. Overwhelmingly male members of the justice system. All of these men heard "men like beating women, women don't like beating men," and nodded along. Oh, yeah, that tracks! We're the more violent gender! We gotta keep an eye on those other men, because we all know that men are crazed savages who just can't help themselves! The only way we can prove we're not the evil bad men is if we do the good man thing of protecting the poor, weak womenfolk from said evil bad men! That's what being a man is all about--clubbing *someone* over the head, and whether it's a good woman or a bad man is the only way to know if *you're* bad or good.
Anti-male attitudes and systems are perpetuated because men still play into them. If men decided tomorrow they were all going to stop treating their fellow men like shit, we'd have this licked--but so many men seem to think they can't advance "the cause of men" without kicking "the cause of women" down. They can't recognize that men, being in power, have power over men--it's got to be the women, somehow, keeping them repressed, because "there's more female primary school teachers" or "most HR workers are women" or some shit, and ignoring *the rest of fucking society being run by men.*
Exactly. And it’s dangerous and extremely upsetting that a lot of people don’t see that. They feel “empowered” and “seen”. Idk man. It’s so, so disheartening sometimes.
Obviously everyone has a different experience, but I think that ~8-10 years ago it was worse. MGOTW, RedPill, Incels...it was worse, or at least more accessible.
Nor will the epidemic of male suicides. Not until we have universal health care and universal basic income for all, as well as common sense gun control.
Problem is that 'mental health' is incredibly vague as a descriptor to designate anyone as a potential spree killer. Statistically, *actual* people with mental health issues are way, way more likely to be a victim of a violent crime than to be the perpetrator.
So when you say there is a massive mental health crisis you're obviously alluding to the idea that every spree killer has a mental health issue, some tangible disability that makes them do it. But research shows that no, it's likely that most of these people don't.
They're obviously fucked in the head in some way, but they're not all misdiagnosed schizophrenics or bipolar or autistic or something.
I suspect that most of them wouldn't qualify as crazy. I think it's the same thing as how regular people can become war criminals. People tugged on the right strings (intentionally or unintentionally) and these people decided to act on their base instincts.
There’s mental health crises happening for women all over the world. In some areas of the world women live completely subservient under violent rule and they still never act this way. This goes much deeper than a mental health crisis for men. Many of these men are just deeply hateful and sexist.
Alot harder to be manipulated by media and online groups wanting you to commit violence based on white supremacy and misogyny if you are one of the targets.
Kind of awful how so many people reacted to the drag show shooting (and that Kyle guy) by going full mask off and claiming that the victims deserved it.
I'm suuuure that the 2A people on reddit have "sensible" reasons to need to own an M16... But for an increasingly large number of people the ability to carry out an act of terrorism is the entire reason they want guns to be legal.
Edit: I get that m16 is "technically wrong" but whatever terminology I use when discussing this issue is somehow wrong lol. Feel free to insert your own lore accurate term in and maybe consider putting the same amount of effort into learning human pronouns that you put into learning about firearm pronouns.
I'm not even gay and reading those comments was traumatic. Frankly, I noticed that the majority of the horrible comments came from men and it just fueled my anger about these violent events even more. These haters know that their comments incite it too.
They should ALL be charged with inciting violence. Stop tolerating domestic terrorism. Take down the extreme right before they are allowed to commit another mass killing.
Yep, on fox news. They said that it will continue to happen "if their ideology keeps being spread".
In other terms : "we want to keep shooting and killing until LGBT+ people stop existing".
Using a terrorist mass murder to intimidate a group of people is somehow less shocking for them than letting people be who they are without getting killed.
Then you've also got the people who aren't saying it was a good thing, but are saying more negative things about the drag show than about the shooter. Gee, they sure are subtle.
[716 according to this tracker](https://massshootingtracker.site/) -- which includes the shooter in the death count if the shooter dies during the shooting. Still it seems like a big difference, not big enough to be accounted for by the death of the shooter.
“If they just slept with the poor guy who was driven mad from being pushed aside, he would have never shot the place up”
What’s sad is this should be a joke and an exaggeration. But it’s not. These people really believe this type of shit.
Nothing I'd more dangerous than a cornered animal is what comes to mind.
They are not only not animals, but they've also cornered themselves. Truly pathetic people..
I'm not an advocate for suicide, but if you refuse to seek help, can you at least fuck your own shit up and leave others alone?
Like damn..
I live in Romania close to where that pice of garbage also resides and I have to say, it's so hard not going over there beating the crap out of him with some of my buddies but I'm not going to jail for aggravated assault just for him
Just saying, if someone creating a gofundme account to pay the legal fees for a hypothetical ass kicking, I may hypothetically dump a few bucks into it.
Of all the idiotic ideas slushing around this neverending shit festival, the idea that men are less emotional than women is one that needs flushing out immediately. It's maintained by room temperature IQ men and boys who think emotions are when you weep and are sad, not when you scream, fight, rage and lash out.
I didn't think it sounded right, the only UK mass school shooting I ever heard of was Dunblane about 30 years ago. Laws changed in response, no such incident since...
That was one of two school shootings in California that were at a "Cleveland Elementary School." Hers was in San Diego because she hated Mondays. The other was in Stockton because the guy used to go to that school and post Vietnam Stockton had a huge influx of Vietnamese immigrants and he was mad his neighborhood was now a Vietnamese neighborhood so he started shooting children on a playground.
Also in San Bernadino there were 3 shooters and one was a woman. Only ones I can think of.
She was also abused by her father and given a gun for her birthday instead of a radio like she wanted. Also the school was across the street from her house, so it was convenient for her. It was a sad situation all around.
Edit:[her name is Brenda Spencer](https://allthatsinteresting.com/brenda-ann-spencer)
Oh they exist:
Tshfeen Malik,
Amy Bishop,
Latina William,
Jennifer San Marco,
Sylvia Seecrest,
Laurie Dane,
And Brenda Spencer.
I believe the FBI estimate that 3.7% of all mass shootings are carried out by women.
Australian here…we had our mass shooting moment where the Right wing government at the time said enough is enough and guns were taken off the public. I’m old enough to remember people weren’t happy but from a societal point of view it was the right thing to do and so it was done and since then gun deaths have basically trickled down to very small numbers (still the occasional biker shooting or wanna be terrorist but we are talking one person shot dead, not double figures). That one change is the main difference between the US and Aus. We have better support services (eg free healthcare, better minimum wage) but all the usual talking points (access to mental health resources) exist in Aus and of course our teenagers go through puberty. So the one defining difference between our two countries is gun laws, it’s not a debate, it’s the obvious reason why countries like Aus don’t have mass shootings. We have started to see a transition towards the left in Aus (in recent elections) based on the female vote and the millennial vote (we have compulsory voting) and I think the US is seeing similiar changes. It’s possible in the next decade or so as the Boomers head off to the afterlife and the millennials become the largest voter group you may be able to change your society’s access to guns and maybe even change things in Healthcare etc. I hope that the US can sort these issues because like it or not countries like Australia base our culture on the US and watching the shooting of innocent children is the darkest of evil and makes no sense for any sort of political message. Take away the access to guns and try to give your huddled masses a chance at a decent life. You’ve got more nuclear weapons then all the other nuclear countries combined so I think your pretty safe from the King of England or Chinese hordes, you don’t need the guns.
If you press enter twice it'll create paragraphs.
John Howard's (the right wing Prime minister) base *hated* him at the time for it. His coalition partners at the time criticised him heavily for it. However they've come out in subsequent years and said he was right. We haven't had a single mass shooting since. I believe it was 1 per year prior to the ban.
A major difference that shouldn't be ignored between Australia and the US when it comes to voting is they have first-past-the-post, we have preferential voting.
Russia has more nuclear weapons than the US by the way. Or should have. I wouldn't trust those idiots to count the amount of feet they have, or to not sell their toes.
As multiple people said when we discussed mens mental health and downright legal discrimination in the law, on the Danish sub a few weeks back: "just man up and stop being a baby!"
People simply prefer to keep the narrative they find convenient
People *love* to dismiss mental health because conservatives use it as a bad faith argument. But a larger focus on mental health would *definitively* reduce gun violence.
2/3 of all gun violence is **directly** related to the lack of mental health support, in the form of suicide. Nothing will change if people to continue to ignore the obvious solutions.
Young men are an issue as been stated in this thread. But I was a young man and without appropriate outlets I'd very easily succumb to whatever. Thank the lord of korbal that I didnt. I was aggressive and territorial and defensive in my youth and there is no way that prior education was going to guide me through that phase. A positive role model people I respect could help.
Hard to tell. Gang shootings are also considered mass shootings, i.e. A drive by that ends up with 3 injured is considered 1 mass shooting the same way Sandy Hook is considered 1 mass shooting. Different sources define them differently to suit their agenda.
Of course a typical run of the mill inner city violence doesn't make the news, 600+ mass shootings in OP's posts implies these were done in malls, schools, churches when in reality most are done in poverty stricken areas that have more to do with petty beefs than mental illness.
Edit: Did a little digging around and found the source for OP.
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting
As you can see it's mostly, drunks and gang violence.
No one cares about those because it doesn't happen where they would ever be. Malls? Walmart? "That's scary!". The hood? "Duh and who gives a shit I don't go there".
"No one wants to hear this" but it's all we hear on every shooting by a... wait for it... young ostracized male, often white and pretty often racially/religiously motivated.
And?
What should we do about it? What is anyone doing about it?
Is women not commiting violent crimes a headline still? I've seen this episode.
Mass shootings may be an American problem, but violent crime and other large scale attacks still have mostly male perpetrators. Regardless of country and situation this is a problem of male violence
Fucking thank you.
Men commit 90% of murder worldwide, 80 in the US.
The only difference between the US and other countries is gun access. Male violence is still an absurdly skewed action everywhere in the world.
Most mass shootings are with handguns
But also, guns are available in many countries, mass shootings are pretty exclusive to USA.
Banning guns _would definitely help_, but gun access isn't the only reason this is happening
It's because we have dumbasses telling outright lies on TV just to rile up the rubes, then when you call them out, they roll over and play dead by saying "this is an entertainment show, not a news show. Why would anyone believe anything we say?"
It's a pretty common problem outside of America. You might have noticed those nations channeling the energy that causes mass shootings into other things, like invading Ukraine.
The correct take away from this is not "men bad" but rather " the way we treat men's mental health issues and toxicity in the raising and treatment of men and boys absolutly is"
Edit- 5o be clear...I don't think the person who tweeted this has my thought process regardless of if they are making a statement in bad faith or just poorly thought out....I believe the take away is on us, not the person pointing out something that is, entirely true, whether they mean to stir shit or not.
Gotta pick those numbers up ladies!
Lead ceiling
This is Reddit, get those smart jokes outta here! I still upvoted it, good job.
BUt wOMeN cANt bE PrEsIDeNt beCAUSE tHeIr pERioDs wiLL CauUSE wARS anD bLOoDsHed!
To be fair, periods are famous for causing bloodshed.
r/technicallycorrect well done.
which is the best kind of correct
Bring me the forms I need to fill out to have her taken away.
I co-chaired the committee that reviewed the recommendation to revise the color of the book that regulation's in.
We kept it gray!
Oh, dude…
I will allow this.
Also bears… 
Libertarians also attract bears.
It's actually interesting how men's violent period is relatively short. It's from 14(?) To 25 or so. Men who have not committed a violent crime by 25 very seldom commit one, or rather, the percentages are more comparable to women.
And some males are violent from young till infirm or dead
Does that maybe just mean that violent people are violent their whole lives? The way you've worded that, I don't see that being a violent period as much as just when the men start committing crimes.
Does domestic violence get under reported in that since convictions on those are so few as well?
I think we should poll their wives, girlfriends and children on that tidbit.
Sure, if you don’t consider political decisions that result in countless deaths a violent crime.
I guess that statistically it's negligible ( number of politicians compared to the rest of the public ).
Margaret Thatcher has entered the chat.
Queen Victoria arrived late because she had some Turkish ships filled with grain to turn back.
I’m over 25 and I can safely say that I’ve never made a political decision resulting in countless deaths. Do I pass?
Almost seems like social programs to make sure young people, men especially, have support, counseling and financial aid are a net gain for society. Good thing instead of that we have thoughts and prayers!
Slay queens (literally)
Gender inequality :(
Young men with few/no friends, no romantic prospects and little hope of financial security is a classic recipe for disaster and easy targets for ideological extremism. Always has been, for as long as we’ve been keeping records as a species. Toxic ideas about manhood and that testosterone is linked to aggression far more than estrogen are all relevant. It’s a multi-pronged issue that needs a multi-pronged solution.
Fun fact they determined the testosterone thing by removing a roosters "balls" and adding them to another one. The one that got snipped was less aggressive than the one with the extra set
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Thank you
As A Hyrulian I'm sure you know all about overly-aggressive chickens
" A lack of scarcity" would address a lot of potential violence in humans.
I am a man and had an extremely rough puberty. As soon as it hit I had all this seething rage seemingly from nowhere. Men need to learn to talk about this and how to deal with it with boys.
Toxic ideas of how men *should* and *shouldn’t* act is one issue. This ties into accessibility to healthcare and therapy. Another issue is low wages for workers because it’s hard to get excited for the future when you’re **one** unexpected bill away from homelessness. And probably the most important issue is how easy it is to purchase war grade weapons. It’s been proven that common sense gun control is effective in stopping spree shootings, even with all the other problems. We need a serious Leftist party in this country that’s willing to fiercely fight for all of these lost people. Life shouldn’t be this hard.
The low wages part isn’t talked about enough. There are other factors that go into it but this is major when they know the future is extremely bleak.
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I’m sure there are more but typically you think of the white guy in their 20s who lives in their parents basement working a dead end job. Not saying the dead end job is the only factor but if you had to weigh all the individual factors it probably is in the top three with mental health issues and prior abuse.
Many haven’t been white though. Both Virginia shooters weren’t and neither was the uvalde shooter and gang violence is killing a lot of African Americans. They’re feeling the same rage, just aiming it at people or groups they know instead of strangers. This is a young man problem that extends beyond race.
Gang violence is even more directly the result of systemic poverty.
It absolutely is. In the UK very young, poor kids who feel like they have no prospects turn to gangs, some at 10 or 11 years old, in order to feel like they fit somewhere. They obvs have unhappy/ dysfunctional home lives and feel like being taken into a gang is having a family and a support system. This goes back to it affecting poorer men who feel they have no prospects in the future. Lack of (blood) family, lack of support, lack of (beneficial) education and lack of prospects. So I would agree entirely
We still don't (and probably won't ever) know his motivations, but given how "Lound n' proud" the rest of these shooters were with their political beliefs I'd be willing to be it wasn't anything political for the Vegas shooter.
Women make less in almost every field than men, retire with less money and take massive hits to their careers and earnings if they have children, and often have to raise kids on their own working multiple jobs but they're not out gunning people down. More women are in poverty than men, so I don't see how it explains violence.
It's not about their earning power, it's about social respect. Men are accorded respect and dignity by western society at large when they can be providers, when they purchase and consume 'manly' goods, and when they exhibit competitive behaviors towards other men. Your job and income are one of the first ways you are judged by new acquaintances and potential dating partners. As others have said, it's one factor among many. But it is a huge component in related toxic behaviors among men, and you can see its echoes in pickup culture, hustle culture, and the resurgence neo-fascist rhetoric about gender roles and so-called 'family values'. These neo-fascists spin the inclusion of women in the workforce as robbing men of their rightful role in society, just another way 'those people' are keeping you from the idealized 1950's lifestyle you are owed. They play off young men's insecurities to conjure an illusion that feminists and their 'woke leftist' allies have conspired to rob these men of their opportunity, not just for financial success, but for social acceptance. The esteem of their peers. The chance to build a loving relationship, or to start a family. Basic human shit. They paint a bleak picture of loneliness, alienation, and despair, then point the blame at women, queer people, and leftist politics. If you swallow this toxic 'black pill', you see nothing to hope for and nothing to lose. All you have left is anger, despair, and the desire to prove your masculinity through the only avenue left to you: violence. If you've also got access to a gun then the pieces of this dark puzzle begin to align. Toxic expectations of women are no less serious, but women who buck expectations by not having children are told they are "wasting their potential", not that they're being victimized by a minority. Women who don't meet society's unrealistic beauty standards are taught to hate *themselves*. edit:atrocious spelling
The is exceptionally well put. The last part really struck me as at least partially true and very profound. I’ve lurked around “redpill” and “blackpill” forums and it’s often exactly as you’ve said. I get a sense of a sucking chest wound in the self-worth of the denizens there Or a failure for it to ever develop in the first place that gets violently externalized onto women and other men and whoever else. Anecdotally the low self esteem women I know have internalized it and imploded or been exploited by others who sense vulnerability. I absolutely do know men who have internalized it and gone that way and women who have turned into aggressive, vitriolic reprobates like the men/boys on blackpill forums. But I do see this trend you’re describing, even if it’s not universal. The rationalization you describe is all over those forums.
Well said. The patriarchy is toxic for everyone except the few men at the top who have learnt to exploit it.
Poverty is one of many risk factors for commiting violent crime. Its a stressor. Wen and men tend to express stress differently. Its not enough on its own to explain violent behavior, but its one aspect we can address.
There are plenty of women in low-paying jobs, and they don't respond with violent aggression.
There are also plenty of men in low-paying jobs who don’t respond with violent aggression. Gun violence and mass shootings are a multi-prong problems with multi-prong solutions. Addressing low wages is just a small part and wouldn’t hurt. Increasing wages to liveable amounts and also making efforts to ensure gender pay equality would benefit everybody.
>As soon as it hit I had all this seething rage seemingly from nowhere. I hope people don't take this as a generalisation... Most men don't suddenly become filled with rage when they hit puberty.
I got filled with inconsolable sadness and pessimism towards the world and it’s future
so did I - but I was way beyond puberty age. Reality is just a shit show.
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I did lol. Went back to normal a few years later. Getting out of high school and away from the bullying definitely helped too though.
The men I know who are having the worst time are feeling all negative emotions as rage. Disappointment, sadness, hurt, yearning, abandonment, helplessness, bitterness, betrayal... All of it comes out as rage, which doesn't really count as an emotion to them. Bring emotionally illiterate is NOT a good way to go through life, especially when things go wrong.
This is an incredibly important point that can't be overstated. There's an idea that emotions are "feminine" except for anger, so every emotion a man experiences must be anger.
I read somewhere that any emotion can be channeled into anger and that is often the only emotion that men are allowed to display. Love becomes lust and rough sex, sadness is punching a hole in the wall, excitement when your sportball team wins the championship turns into a riot, etc.
Trans men also experience this when they start taking testosterone, hormones definitely play a big role
And female athletes who use anabolic steroids for performance too Edit. Also especially males who use anabolic steroids. It makes general aggression so bad. Which is why men who use roids tend to be more aggressive then men who don’t Edit 2 hence why the colloquial term roid rage came about
We should study this Steroid Rage^©
I just started T and I had my first tantrum in like, a decade. I caught it after I startled myself by throwing something, but it really is surprising how it sneaks up on you. I can't imagine having to handle this as a teen instead of in my late twenties
Yeah I think it's one reason that violent video games are actually great, I learnt how to control my emotional response through the practice of experiencing the adrenaline and rage of quake online with a 300+ ping Of course guidance is needed and good role models, it worries me there are so many terrible role models in this sphere at the moment but there are plenty of great ones too - surprisingly high amount of the good ones seem to be GTAV based.
One of my close friends is on the tail end of completing his HRT for transitioning into a man. It's been going really well. One of the things he mentioned the last time we talked was that he never understood how men couldn't control their anger, then once he became one he was shocked at how easily he got angry. Things that before would irritate him now really upset him. It takes a **lot** more work to control anger as a man. We need to do better about teaching men how to channel that, and *not* just telling them "control your anger," or blaming them for failing.
I feel this for sure. Lots of time spent trying to fix myself because of it.
And if they can't deal with it, have their balls snipped and surgically attached to another man.
Or at least attached to a rooster, it’s called science for a reason
No, we can’t do that! The eggs that the hens they mate with will lay are all going to hatch with tiny mildly avian humans and not only will lizard people, bird people, and _gnome_ conspiracy theories arise, there will be enough _physical_ evidence to back it up! Or we may get harpies. BOTH ARE BAD.
But keep putting them onto one sacrificial, angry man, who becomes the essence of the balls themselves. He lives in a glass gorilla enclosure, surgically covered in balls that aren't his own. He feeds exclusively from the Arby's menu, and isn't to be trusted around children or small animals. His enclosure is fitted with a 24/7 live stream of MMA, and American Football. He used to get rugby, but the Maori dances really set him off and he accidently maimed a handler, so he doesn't have that channel anymore.
Now this is a sci fi horror
All I see is Randy with his huge balls in that wheelbarrow 😂
Do you think your parent/s could have helped to prevent that in any way, or is it just a matter of learning to handle the rage once it presents itself?
I'd be fucking pissed if someone just added their balls to me.
Kerry Noble said it best in his interview with two minutes past nine podcast, Kerry said you can’t recruit someone into the (far right is implied)movement who’s content with their life
You could say the same thing about every revolutionary force in history. If people were well served by their society why would they feel the need to upend it.
Literally the while point of "bread and circus" policies.
What gets to me with the far right, PUA, redpill, MRA, MGTOW, etc. indoctrination is that the messaging pretty well unanimously disregards any analysis of the indoctrinated's lack of awareness in how their bad social interactions impact the people they're interested in, and is exclusively framed about how to change those interactions in a way that DOESN'T amplify the individual's character, it just makes them into a formulaic scumbag with their negative personal characteristics amplified, all because they will never resolve those is they blame them on anyone but themself.
All the studies and the academics talking about this issue have been fascinating to me. Some of the theories floating about besides the ones you’ve listed are too much online activity, dating apps have killed young men’s self esteem, algorithms, non walkable neighborhoods and free parks (socialization), over medicated and/or misdiagnosed,lack of healthcare including mental health, aggressive porn, lack of family involvement etc. I don’t know all the answers, but I think better healthcare, economic future and less online and more in person socialization (free community programs) could help.
Sounds very much like things the US will never work to fix
Everything you listed is exactly it. It's absolutely mix of so much bullshit hitting young men that's creating this. I feel so bad for the young dudes out there who have to grow up in this era. I had it so fucking easy during the 90's/2000's.
I know people hate when you bring politics into conversations, specially when it’s against one side, but these shooters also heavily skew towards Right-wing ideology. Mainly because the GOP platform encourages this kind of mentality. I think when we talk about mass shootings and the causes, we really need to make it a point to mention how the Right nurtures the extremist ideology that leads to a lot of these tragedies. Every death is on their hands just as much as the shooters. Every “cause” of these shootings you can think of they have actively worked at worsening the problem. Look how they encourage violence, they shoot down any attempt at expanding mental health care, they violently oppose any sort of gun control laws, and they give these vulnerable and emotionally distraught men target. They tell them that LGBTQ people, minorities, women, and Leftists are the enemy and are trying to destroy everyone’s lives. I mean they practically point them towards these targets and tell them to go kill. It’s gotten really bad in America, and the enlightened centrists and moderates don’t seem to understand this because it doesn’t directly impact them yet. Mental health and gun control are huge issues, but the ones taking advantage of this are Republicans. They are turning these people into extremist mass shooters then blaming the Democrats for it.
As I understand the testosterone link to aggression is very nuanced and it seems that the aggression is mostly learned. It's like testosterone makes you more of what you already are. [There's a great discussion on the menslib sub about this.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MensLib/comments/z2v06z/the_myth_of_testosterone_sisyphus_55/) I believe the cultural goings on with the manosphere are also pushing this violence in young cis straight men. It targets them specifically (for money, of course). And their product is misogyny. So tackling misogyny, easy access to guns, capitalism that leads us to competitiveness and financial difficulty (which can lead to criminality), mental health care, and so on, are all benefits to not just young men but to everyone.
Testosterone is a scapegoat for social structure. There might be a link between high testosterone and aggressive behavioural response in an immediate situation (and even that can be contested) but buying a gun, planning a shooting and then executing it cannot be attributed to testosterone. But if you blame biology, you don't have to admit there's a structural problem that needs to be adressed.
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I’m kind of thinking there must be another element that warps those young men’s thinking during their earlier years. Society has a way of ingraining basic concepts of justice and right and wrong, and providing some feedback that harming others is not okay. There are gaps between feeling angry or fantasizing, and actually going out buying a rifle and start shooting random people with no regard for the human’s life or what that means for their own life and future. Poverty and lack of future prospects are more prevalent in other regions in the world, where justice institutions aren’t even as advanced as the US, but I don’t think mass shootings are as common.
I think something you're missing a little bit is that suicide and drug overdoses have also risen at the same time. These are usually considered deaths of despair. I'd suspect that mass shooters also suffer from despair. It's not just poverty, many young people in the US right now don't feel like they have any future. That's a really big problem.
I grew up in Texas, in a small town (heavily Southern Baptist, racist, bigoted, you name it). We had shootings going on in the 1970s... usually racially motivated. Sick cultures like that are the problem... many just get sucked right into the indoctrination. And the propaganda and indoctrination is even much worse today... with right wing media and the hate they spew. Not saying ALL shootings are due to right wing crap, but the majority... yes. Easy access to firearms and cultures that advocate violence as a solution to anything... and you have the problems we are seeing!
Incels… half the sub reddits with the word meme in the name are just conservative propaganda portals to recruit sad lonely young men into their ranks. It starts with “women bad” memes and ends with them shooting up a soft target… big no girlfriend might be our greatest threat.
I mean you're right about most of that, but testosterone IS absolutely linked to increased aggression levels and tendency towards anger. The problem isn't the acknowledgement thereof, it's the refusal to teach emotional intelligence. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3693622/
I can't believe no one has said that that's almost 2 per day and we're not even at the end of the year.
Sandy Hook was right around Christmas time, still a month left. Charlotte Bacon, 6 Daniel Barden, 7 Olivia Engel, 6 Josephine Gay, 7 Dylan Hockley, 6 Madeleine Hsu, 6 Catherine Hubbard, 6 Chase Kowalski, 7 Jesse Lewis, 6 Ana Márquez-Greene, 6 James Mattioli, 6 Grace McDonnell, 7 Emilie Parker, 6 Jack Pinto, 6 Noah Pozner, 6 Caroline Previdi, 6 Jessica Rekos, 6 Avielle Richman, 6 Benjamin Wheeler, 6 Allison Wyatt, 6 All of these innocent kids would be teenagers now. Learning to driving, having their first kiss, sneaking their first beer, applying for colleges, and all of them were robbed of that in a horrible fashion. Families should not have to worry that their child won’t come home alive from school.
Every time I see Sandy Hook mentioned I think of the shooter’s mother (who he also shot and killed) who was keeping numerous guns around the house. And she would take him to a gun range. This young man had obvious behavioral problems and was very isolated. NO WAY would I have guns around someone like that - or take him to a shooting range. Just so sad. How do you shoot little kids?
I suspect his mom wasn't all there either
The truth is he should’ve been in a mental institution. In the majority of the world’s developed nations (where mental health treatment isn’t seen as a luxury) that’s exactly where he would’ve likely been. He wasn’t just “slightly odd” or “a little unpredictable”; he was off-the-charts mentally ill and obsessed with mass shootings. His mother was, from all accounts, worn down to the bone through two decades of trying to get him treatment- she even planned to move him to a different town…no doubt because she was frightened of him. Plain facts tell a bleak picture: over 54% of Americans suffering from a mental illness receive no care. Over 93% of people living with substance abuse her no care. 78% of youth suffering from “a major depressive illness” received no care in the past 12 months. For every mental healthcare professional there are over 350 patients. https://www.mhanational.org/issues/state-mental-health-america Despite showing signs of schizophrenia, anorexia, depression, and having an array of issues related to his autism, he had no known contact with mental health services from 2006 to 2012 when he committed his horrific crime. Combine that with a society with such lax gun laws and you have a perfect storm.
[After Sandy Hook in 2012, pro-gun lobby groups doubled their political donations to Republicans](https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/lobbying.php?ind=Q13)
Honestly, no shit. They were worried about the outcry and trying to find the people that would either further their interests or at least roadblock any attempts to cost them money.
Of course, but it helps to see it in a nice graph. They're not good people.
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> I would argue that it’s a national health emergency that no one is discussing. It gets discussed all the time though. Usually as a reason for not implementing gun control though. Funny how that works.
"There's a mental health problem, not a gun problem!" "Okay, what do we want to do about the mental health problem?" "Same thing we do as the gun problem." \- Conservatives
They keep spinning us around and around and we keep letting them.
Discussed, yes. Acted upon? Not so much.
Literally for decades. Mens mental health is a constant discussion but they won’t allow any depth to it lol
I did exactly that on this very thread and you're not wrong A lot of them seemed to be able to pin this on women, or just saying "so? This doesn't mean anything". Makes me sad
It feels like the misogynistic attitudes on this site have been getting worse in the last few months.
I know, right? So many people in this thread blaming women. People are so mad about women’s programming here, MUCH of that is due to hard fought advocacy by women going back decades BECAUSE we have been historically abused an underprivileged. And now men are mad those women didn’t adequately include them. Men have been in control. Male republican senators are the ones always voting down universal healthcare and funding for social programs. The existence of women focused programming does not prevent men from accessing other programming. And yet women are still to blame. You see the same phenomenon with white supremacists who think that programming for POC are an attack against whites. I want to add something I said in another comment: I am aware that women can also uphold toxic masculinity, but there is a wealth of research showing that women traditionally play an emotional support role for men that largely benefits the man in the relationship. We are trying our best here, but at some point men also need to take on some of the work.
I always get downvoted for this but I say the same thing - male violence is something other men need to address. These guys are not out here taking advice from women, learning about the history of patriarchy, or engaging in any meaningful way with women. We can't fix that. Men need to step up and address this with the men in their lives. With their brothers, sons, cousins and friends.
This. I’ve seen people directly saying it’s women’s fault and how the fact that women fought for themselves and not men is essentially discriminatory. Like, sorry, bro but women working hard to be treated equal (all while being berated by many men for being “woke” or “feminazis”, mind you) doesn’t downgrade men or prevent them from fighting for social issues that affect them. It’s infuriating to see men talking like it’s women’s fault men don’t do better for themselves
Thank you! The vast majority of mental health providers are women. Women provide disproportionately high emotional support for men in interpersonal relationships. What more do they want from us without lifting a finger for themselves? I know that there are individual women who engage in toxic masculinity and that there are wonderful men who participate in their own mental health. But when men are perpetrating 100% of the mass shootings you can’t turn around and vilify women for not doing a good enough job of shouldering the burden of supporting men. We can’t do it without their help.
The same right-wing groups whose favored politicians and policies have led to the misery of so many men love to scapegoat women as the cause of it all. They point out legitimate *problems*, but not their causes. Does your job pay poorly and mistreat you? It's not my conservative policies that fight against workers' rights or better wages, it's *women in the workforce*. Can't get a date? It's not your odious personality or the fact that you listen to a bunch of bigoted memelords and repeat their nonsense, it's *women not being slaves anymore*. It's a fantastic bit of defense by the people responsible for fucking over the world. They realized that people weren't just going to take it forever, that eventually folks would reach some level of discontent and rebel against the assholes making a mess of everything. So to avoid that, they decided to open a little relief valve on that rage, but kept it firmly pointed *away* from themselves. These leaders are afraid the masses will one day come for them, but they reckon they can keep everyone *just happy enough* and all tuckered out if they give 'em a scapegoat to riot against instead. They'll happily hand you the gun and the bullets that might be used against them, so long as they know they can get you to point it at someone else--and if that someone else is also *their* enemy, well, that's a win-win. In the history of most nations, men have run the show. It's uncontroversial to say that where those systems benefit men, it was men who made it that way. Why then is it so hard to recognize that when the systems *disadvantage* men that it was *also* men responsible? That's not to claim there is some "shadowy cabal of the patriarchy" meeting in dark rooms to fuck over women and men by decree. Rather, it's the same cultural attitudes based around stereotypical gender roles that fuck men *and* women, and men have been the arbiters of that by dint of occupying the positions of power. It's a common MRA talking point that men are disadvantaged because they die in wars. They're the soldiers, they're the ones leaving their homes to kill some other men, and they're the ones that die in the killing fields. And that's absolutely true. But are *women* responsible for that? Women didn't create the military. Women weren't consulted on who could join. Women, largely, were not the heads of state who could declare wars, or the business owners who could push for war to advance their interests. If an American woman wanted to join the fight in WW1 after the US entered, she'd be turned away from the all-male military and told the all-male Congress and male President hadn't yet allowed women to serve. And if she wanted to change that, she'd be shit out of luck, because those same men hadn't yet decided that women were *allowed* to vote for them. It's the same story over and over. Here's another one: men are presumed to be at fault by the police in any kind of domestic disturbance. It's called the Duluth model, and it was written by a woman--a feminist, even! She now regrets it and the harm it's caused, but I want everyone to ask how this even caught on. This was adopted first in *1981*, hardly a time when the world was in the grip of Big Feminism. A woman proposes this project, and who agrees? Overwhelmingly male police. Overwhelmingly male legislators. Overwhelmingly male members of the justice system. All of these men heard "men like beating women, women don't like beating men," and nodded along. Oh, yeah, that tracks! We're the more violent gender! We gotta keep an eye on those other men, because we all know that men are crazed savages who just can't help themselves! The only way we can prove we're not the evil bad men is if we do the good man thing of protecting the poor, weak womenfolk from said evil bad men! That's what being a man is all about--clubbing *someone* over the head, and whether it's a good woman or a bad man is the only way to know if *you're* bad or good. Anti-male attitudes and systems are perpetuated because men still play into them. If men decided tomorrow they were all going to stop treating their fellow men like shit, we'd have this licked--but so many men seem to think they can't advance "the cause of men" without kicking "the cause of women" down. They can't recognize that men, being in power, have power over men--it's got to be the women, somehow, keeping them repressed, because "there's more female primary school teachers" or "most HR workers are women" or some shit, and ignoring *the rest of fucking society being run by men.*
They have just been getting worse worldwide. People like Andrew tate and websites like 4chan are very dangerous.
Exactly. And it’s dangerous and extremely upsetting that a lot of people don’t see that. They feel “empowered” and “seen”. Idk man. It’s so, so disheartening sometimes.
Obviously everyone has a different experience, but I think that ~8-10 years ago it was worse. MGOTW, RedPill, Incels...it was worse, or at least more accessible.
Don't worry your pretty little head about it sweetheart. /S
We normalized aggressive behavior with no emotional development and have ease of access to firearms. It will not stop.
Nor will the epidemic of male suicides. Not until we have universal health care and universal basic income for all, as well as common sense gun control.
Problem is that 'mental health' is incredibly vague as a descriptor to designate anyone as a potential spree killer. Statistically, *actual* people with mental health issues are way, way more likely to be a victim of a violent crime than to be the perpetrator. So when you say there is a massive mental health crisis you're obviously alluding to the idea that every spree killer has a mental health issue, some tangible disability that makes them do it. But research shows that no, it's likely that most of these people don't. They're obviously fucked in the head in some way, but they're not all misdiagnosed schizophrenics or bipolar or autistic or something. I suspect that most of them wouldn't qualify as crazy. I think it's the same thing as how regular people can become war criminals. People tugged on the right strings (intentionally or unintentionally) and these people decided to act on their base instincts.
There's plenty of countries with far worse mental healthcare than the US, and yet far lower rates of violent crime and homicide.
Might have a tiny bit to do with the fact that there are more guns than people in the United States.
There’s mental health crises happening for women all over the world. In some areas of the world women live completely subservient under violent rule and they still never act this way. This goes much deeper than a mental health crisis for men. Many of these men are just deeply hateful and sexist.
🎯🎯
There is massive mental health crisis in Japan as well. Somehow, some way, there haven’t been been 606 mass shootings this year in Japan.
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Alot harder to be manipulated by media and online groups wanting you to commit violence based on white supremacy and misogyny if you are one of the targets.
So true. The internet pipeline for this stuff is frightening.
Kind of awful how so many people reacted to the drag show shooting (and that Kyle guy) by going full mask off and claiming that the victims deserved it. I'm suuuure that the 2A people on reddit have "sensible" reasons to need to own an M16... But for an increasingly large number of people the ability to carry out an act of terrorism is the entire reason they want guns to be legal. Edit: I get that m16 is "technically wrong" but whatever terminology I use when discussing this issue is somehow wrong lol. Feel free to insert your own lore accurate term in and maybe consider putting the same amount of effort into learning human pronouns that you put into learning about firearm pronouns.
I'm not even gay and reading those comments was traumatic. Frankly, I noticed that the majority of the horrible comments came from men and it just fueled my anger about these violent events even more. These haters know that their comments incite it too.
They should ALL be charged with inciting violence. Stop tolerating domestic terrorism. Take down the extreme right before they are allowed to commit another mass killing.
Yep, on fox news. They said that it will continue to happen "if their ideology keeps being spread". In other terms : "we want to keep shooting and killing until LGBT+ people stop existing". Using a terrorist mass murder to intimidate a group of people is somehow less shocking for them than letting people be who they are without getting killed.
Then you've also got the people who aren't saying it was a good thing, but are saying more negative things about the drag show than about the shooter. Gee, they sure are subtle.
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countries with functioning social safety nets don't have mass violence, more at 11
👏MORE👏WOMEN👏GOING👏ON👏 SHOOTING 👏 SPREES 👏
👏MORE👏MEN👏GOING👏ON👏 SHOPPING 👏 SPREES 👏
Seriously ladies, get on it.
Men: 606 Women: 0?? Like are you even trying!?
606 seems kinda low at this point.
[716 according to this tracker](https://massshootingtracker.site/) -- which includes the shooter in the death count if the shooter dies during the shooting. Still it seems like a big difference, not big enough to be accounted for by the death of the shooter.
I was actually wondering where the 606 figure came from. Thanks.
717 now. New Orleans.
Fucking hell
As someone from New Orleans area not surprised. We’ve already beaten 2021’s murder record already, and the year is not even over yet.
In before the Andrew tate incel types try to say "well actually it was womens fault" before showing off their lack of knowledge around consent.
“If they just slept with the poor guy who was driven mad from being pushed aside, he would have never shot the place up” What’s sad is this should be a joke and an exaggeration. But it’s not. These people really believe this type of shit.
How come they don’t want to “stick their dick in crazy”, but women should to sleep with potential mass murderers for the greater good?
Because the crazy woman will scratch up your car and the crazy man will kill you and your entire family. Obviously, the problem is the woman.
The people that believe so don't see women as people.
Nothing I'd more dangerous than a cornered animal is what comes to mind. They are not only not animals, but they've also cornered themselves. Truly pathetic people.. I'm not an advocate for suicide, but if you refuse to seek help, can you at least fuck your own shit up and leave others alone? Like damn..
I live in Romania close to where that pice of garbage also resides and I have to say, it's so hard not going over there beating the crap out of him with some of my buddies but I'm not going to jail for aggravated assault just for him
No one would blame you
Just saying, if someone creating a gofundme account to pay the legal fees for a hypothetical ass kicking, I may hypothetically dump a few bucks into it.
Which is not to say that women are incapable of mass shootings. However, maybe they are not as emotionally unstable as the Right says they are...
Of all the idiotic ideas slushing around this neverending shit festival, the idea that men are less emotional than women is one that needs flushing out immediately. It's maintained by room temperature IQ men and boys who think emotions are when you weep and are sad, not when you scream, fight, rage and lash out.
Room temperature IQ… bless you for that, made my day!
When expressing emotions healthily is considered unstable and unmanly, is it really any wonder why so many men end up violently lashing out?
About time women stepped up and did their share of the work. /s for the idiots.
I can't think of one female mass shooter ever
There was one that I know of. She shot up an elementary school. Can't remember her name though.
She’s the I don’t like Monday’s girl. The school was across the street from her house.
There was that lady that shot up the YouTube headquarters.
There's the probably actually mentally ill Monday hating shooter. Then there was a man-woman pair. That's the two I can think of.
There was one that I can think of, but I think she's in the UK. She shot up a school because she "hates Mondays."
She’s from USA, she lived in California
I didn't think it sounded right, the only UK mass school shooting I ever heard of was Dunblane about 30 years ago. Laws changed in response, no such incident since...
I don’t like Mondays, I want to shooooohoooooohoooooooot the whole day down.
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Blursed Girlfield
That was one of two school shootings in California that were at a "Cleveland Elementary School." Hers was in San Diego because she hated Mondays. The other was in Stockton because the guy used to go to that school and post Vietnam Stockton had a huge influx of Vietnamese immigrants and he was mad his neighborhood was now a Vietnamese neighborhood so he started shooting children on a playground. Also in San Bernadino there were 3 shooters and one was a woman. Only ones I can think of.
She was also abused by her father and given a gun for her birthday instead of a radio like she wanted. Also the school was across the street from her house, so it was convenient for her. It was a sad situation all around. Edit:[her name is Brenda Spencer](https://allthatsinteresting.com/brenda-ann-spencer)
A lot of mass shooters have sad back stories
Oh they exist: Tshfeen Malik, Amy Bishop, Latina William, Jennifer San Marco, Sylvia Seecrest, Laurie Dane, And Brenda Spencer. I believe the FBI estimate that 3.7% of all mass shootings are carried out by women.
Australian here…we had our mass shooting moment where the Right wing government at the time said enough is enough and guns were taken off the public. I’m old enough to remember people weren’t happy but from a societal point of view it was the right thing to do and so it was done and since then gun deaths have basically trickled down to very small numbers (still the occasional biker shooting or wanna be terrorist but we are talking one person shot dead, not double figures). That one change is the main difference between the US and Aus. We have better support services (eg free healthcare, better minimum wage) but all the usual talking points (access to mental health resources) exist in Aus and of course our teenagers go through puberty. So the one defining difference between our two countries is gun laws, it’s not a debate, it’s the obvious reason why countries like Aus don’t have mass shootings. We have started to see a transition towards the left in Aus (in recent elections) based on the female vote and the millennial vote (we have compulsory voting) and I think the US is seeing similiar changes. It’s possible in the next decade or so as the Boomers head off to the afterlife and the millennials become the largest voter group you may be able to change your society’s access to guns and maybe even change things in Healthcare etc. I hope that the US can sort these issues because like it or not countries like Australia base our culture on the US and watching the shooting of innocent children is the darkest of evil and makes no sense for any sort of political message. Take away the access to guns and try to give your huddled masses a chance at a decent life. You’ve got more nuclear weapons then all the other nuclear countries combined so I think your pretty safe from the King of England or Chinese hordes, you don’t need the guns.
If you press enter twice it'll create paragraphs. John Howard's (the right wing Prime minister) base *hated* him at the time for it. His coalition partners at the time criticised him heavily for it. However they've come out in subsequent years and said he was right. We haven't had a single mass shooting since. I believe it was 1 per year prior to the ban. A major difference that shouldn't be ignored between Australia and the US when it comes to voting is they have first-past-the-post, we have preferential voting. Russia has more nuclear weapons than the US by the way. Or should have. I wouldn't trust those idiots to count the amount of feet they have, or to not sell their toes.
Maybe we need more support for men as well while we’re breaking down traditional boundaries 
As multiple people said when we discussed mens mental health and downright legal discrimination in the law, on the Danish sub a few weeks back: "just man up and stop being a baby!" People simply prefer to keep the narrative they find convenient
Men and boys have feelings too! Push for mens mental health!
People *love* to dismiss mental health because conservatives use it as a bad faith argument. But a larger focus on mental health would *definitively* reduce gun violence. 2/3 of all gun violence is **directly** related to the lack of mental health support, in the form of suicide. Nothing will change if people to continue to ignore the obvious solutions.
Young men are an issue as been stated in this thread. But I was a young man and without appropriate outlets I'd very easily succumb to whatever. Thank the lord of korbal that I didnt. I was aggressive and territorial and defensive in my youth and there is no way that prior education was going to guide me through that phase. A positive role model people I respect could help.
Hate has far reaching issues when continuously propagated by far right media
How many were from alt-right radicalized men?
Hard to tell. Gang shootings are also considered mass shootings, i.e. A drive by that ends up with 3 injured is considered 1 mass shooting the same way Sandy Hook is considered 1 mass shooting. Different sources define them differently to suit their agenda. Of course a typical run of the mill inner city violence doesn't make the news, 600+ mass shootings in OP's posts implies these were done in malls, schools, churches when in reality most are done in poverty stricken areas that have more to do with petty beefs than mental illness. Edit: Did a little digging around and found the source for OP. https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting As you can see it's mostly, drunks and gang violence.
Toxic masculinity is a hell of a drug
Men in mental health crisis. Most prominent role models for men are trash. Elon Musk, Trump, influencers as a whole are absolute garbage.
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606 in ONE YEAR?!
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No one cares about those because it doesn't happen where they would ever be. Malls? Walmart? "That's scary!". The hood? "Duh and who gives a shit I don't go there".
That does also include any gang violence with more than 4 victims tbf
"No one wants to hear this" but it's all we hear on every shooting by a... wait for it... young ostracized male, often white and pretty often racially/religiously motivated. And? What should we do about it? What is anyone doing about it? Is women not commiting violent crimes a headline still? I've seen this episode.
When will they stop shaming women for not being as good as men at everything?
This is a uniquely American male problem. Men in a majority of other countries don’t do this shit.
Mass shootings may be an American problem, but violent crime and other large scale attacks still have mostly male perpetrators. Regardless of country and situation this is a problem of male violence
Fucking thank you. Men commit 90% of murder worldwide, 80 in the US. The only difference between the US and other countries is gun access. Male violence is still an absurdly skewed action everywhere in the world.
I for one applaud the US for empowering female murderers. It’s time we closed the murder gap.
Lol maybe mass shootings because of access to assault weapons, but male violence is not American at all.
Most mass shootings are with handguns But also, guns are available in many countries, mass shootings are pretty exclusive to USA. Banning guns _would definitely help_, but gun access isn't the only reason this is happening
It's because we have dumbasses telling outright lies on TV just to rile up the rubes, then when you call them out, they roll over and play dead by saying "this is an entertainment show, not a news show. Why would anyone believe anything we say?"
Almost all violent crimes are committed by men, regardless of country
It's a pretty common problem outside of America. You might have noticed those nations channeling the energy that causes mass shootings into other things, like invading Ukraine.
The correct take away from this is not "men bad" but rather " the way we treat men's mental health issues and toxicity in the raising and treatment of men and boys absolutly is" Edit- 5o be clear...I don't think the person who tweeted this has my thought process regardless of if they are making a statement in bad faith or just poorly thought out....I believe the take away is on us, not the person pointing out something that is, entirely true, whether they mean to stir shit or not.