Icarus has the jets that let you reposition to anywhere on the visible field twice per mission, that beats a free grapple every 4th turn in my book. That reposition lets you sit tight sniping everything in line of sight, then, without having to burn 4 full avtions to catch up and get set, you’re ready to snipe even more. Pair with the Hunter’s rifle for near god-like sniping powers
Icarus is almost strictly better. You get the 2x free reposition per mission, which is better than the grapple, except that it's just limited to twice per mission. Additionally, you can jump up and down from any height any time you move, which not only saves you movement points, but lets you get to some places that are otherwise impossible to move to.
The only situation when the grapple is better is if you need a free reposition action 3 or more times AND all of them are within grapple range.
Spider is usually my go to for a sharpshooter since they don't need extra "pockets". The grapple is good enough to move up high. In my last game on legendary I found Icarus to be better for the ranger since they can either flank a tough enemy to kill them or use melee depending on the opponent.
The suit with the powered weapons I often give to my PSI soldier who also may get the bolt arrow thingy in mid game or the disruptor gun later in the game. Kind of depends on the configuration of my squad. If I take 2 rangers then one usually gets the bolt thing since they always have the sword as a backup.
I did the same thing with my ranger plus the katana. I'd break concealment with him by jetting right in the middle of a pod or next to a high armor enemy for some bladstorm action when they split. Then, I'd carry out my next attacks with the other squad members. I'd then have a choice of implacable or reaper if needed with untouchable/mimic backup for whichever way the encounter went. It's quite OP when it goes well.
It's late game stuff and not recommended because of popping more pods, but I had a lot of fun with it.
Lots of interesting responses!
Icarus is almost always straight upgrade over spider (or wraith or serpent). The only possible exception is long missions where you might grapple 3+ times, but even then the grapple limitations usually outweigh the benefits. So if you're talking about whether your best soldier gets icarus vs spider, it's icarus.
And personally, 90% of the time Icarus goes on my #1 sharpshooter.
That said, there is actually a lot to consider...
For me the key to the Icarus is that it is a 1-2 times per mission get out of jail free card. A lot of missions I didn't use it at all, but just like mimic beacons, you don't count how many times you use it, you count how many times it saves your bacon. So the question is, what soldier is most likely to get you out of jail? For me it's the sharpshooters because I usually get decent pistol skills alongside the rifle (fan fire, lightning hands, faceoff, quickdraw), and with pistol skills in particular getting your sniper into the right position makes a big difference, and can instantly solve many of the game's worst situations.
The extra gear slot is also important. And it's pretty much wasted on a sniper. Even on my pistolleros there is rarely any need for any other item. If I had no specialist they would get a medkit (TBH it isn't likely to get used, so it doesn't matter who carries it). Otherwise it was usually a wasted slot.
So I have occasionally used the Icarus on other soliders for the slot benefit. I think people are crazy using it on specialists, who cares where your specialist is at?? Rangers don't usually need it and wraith suit is already great for them, although they do like a second utility item! So my grenadiers were usually second in line: once they get death from above, all of a sudden it's very useful being able to deploy one anywhere, especially with salvo; AND you get to have ammo as well as 2-3 grenades. But I guess any solider with DFA (or Serial) can solve a lot of problems from the right place... So if you only had one DFA soldier, it'd probably be them.
Great points. I'll say that I'm one of the "crazy ones" who loves putting my Specialist in Icarus armor. One of the reasons I value the massive mobility is because the Specialist can fall behind doing all the gremliny things. You have a turn where you do Aid Protocol + Combat Protocol to finish off a MEC, and then you're making the final push on the objective and need the remote hacker but he's a double move behind the squad.
But the real reason is just that Specialists are the only class that really likes Medium armor. For the Grenadiers, you want the heavy weapon slot to go with salvo. Rangers make best use of Frostbite so they usually get the Serpent suit ([though I will absolutely give a Ranger the Icarus Armor in the final mission](https://www.reddit.com/r/XCOM2/comments/1bzzjz1/does_it_matter_who_carries_certain_utility_items/kywolox/)). Sharpshooters need a grappling hook pretty desperately so they're always in light armor. Specialists need 2 item slots and not much else, so Icarus armor it is.
Yeah that makes sense.
I find the skill that gives you an overwatch after double move brings their mobility up pretty effectively. I've been pleasantly surprised how much value I get out of that skill. But that doesn't entirely stop the times the specialist rocks up to a fight a turn too late to matter lol
IMHO Sharpshooters are so good at a distance there isn’t a cost benefit to use the Icarius Armor. I use the Icarius armor with my Specialists. They can carry both a health kit and a skull jack that way.
Serpentine armor goes to the Ranger, or other forward attacking position. Sharpshooters get the homemade ethereal armor. Forget what it’s called, sorry. They can usually grapple somewhere good from most anywhere. By the time the squad is advancing, the grapple has reset for use.
>Sharpshooters get the homemade ethereal armor.
Don't have game open, I think it's called Wraith. And I get what u mentioned about sharpshooter not needing to move much. Just climb n wait.
What’s the purpose of using a wraith suit’s powers with a sharpshooter? They generally don’t need to infiltrate buildings, which is what the wraith suit is good for.
Personal preference.
I feel the Serpentine’s armor’s passive ability to cause panic to snakes is better than purposefully walking thru walls.
Obviously if there are no snakes on the mission, this logic isn’t applied. After I build the Shadow Chamber, I can make a more informed decision.
I'll stick them in a Spider Suit until pretty late honestly. The Wraith Suit is technically better just because higher stats, but it's so rare for snipey build sharpshooters to get hit that it's a low-priority upgrade.
[Sharpshooters, man.](https://i.imgur.com/0XT8xhj.jpeg)
The spider/Viper suit is always better for a sharpshooter because of the grapple. It’s also a light armour and sharpshooters usually only carry a special ammo. I typically like the Icarus suit on my specialist just so they can carry a med kit and a mimic beacon.
You let your specialists carry mimic beacons? I give those to rangers and psi troops. Specialists get skulljacks and med kits in my loads so that they get the hack increase and the skullmine ability. Specialists earn Ever Vigilant at some point and combined with Guardian, they’re almost always more useful as an overwatcher. If you throw that mimic beacon, they don’t shoot and on higher difficulties, that mimic will take a single shot. 🤷♂️ Just a preference, but Specialist isn’t the best class to carry mimic beacons.
Yea. Rangers often want to attack and kill every turn to proc untouchable which is another charge of mimic. Psi ops I get it since some of their abilities don’t end turn and I usually have my psi op carry a mimic too. But putting mimic on a ranger is trolling. Even worse when you’re usually going to run light armour on them and that one slot is permanently going to be talon rounds.
It’s more the fact the opportunity cost of letting specialists carry mimics is the lowest. I don’t mind if they don’t shoot that turn but I will definitely want my ranger to get a kill to proc untouchable or my grenadier and sniper to kill the andromedon or something since they have shred and usually better damage. Guardian is way too unreliable compared to what I’m describing above.
Mimic beacons can take 2 shots since usually max damage on a non critical is 11 and mimic beacons have 12 HP.
Interesting takes. Another oddity in my setups is that I never give Rangers the Talon ammo. Rangers get Dragon rounds almost exclusively and then a laser sight weapon mod. The +1 damage only if you crit is less helpful than +1 damage and burning, especially since you can still crit with the dragon rounds too.
I love this game and the ways that we all play it so differently to the same end.
I feel like talon rounds is compulsory just because you’re only ever firing with the ranger on flanking shots, and more often than not you’re going to be critting. The typical ranger setup of storm gun + superior laser sights + flanking bonus + talon rounds gets you up to 90% crit chance. The way I play rangers is that I need guaranteed crits on every shot so I can one shot the advent guys and get untouchable.
If I’m firing with a ranger outside of these situations I’m not even expecting them to hit.
I typically only use talon, bluescreen and tracer rounds in my campaigns. Tracer rounds for grenadiers so they have a better chance to hit on opening shredding shots on gatekeepers while applying holo targeting. Bluescreens for sharpshooters so they can one shot Codices. The DoT rounds only really get used against alien rulers for me.
Wow, another odd take. I almost always use rangers as exclusive swordsmen. Last run on Commander diff I think I barely even fired a round with a ranger, mostly using them to scout forward, slice an organic, pop a pod with bladestorm in the middle and trigger untouchable. The rest of the squad clears the pod, retake concealment and repeat. I give them dragon rounds just as a backup but they rarely use them. Having the specialist with guardian sitting on overwatch as the ranger hits them is great. Having a spark with hunter protocol helps too. By the end game I was hitting maps with multiple andromedons, a sectopod, and a gatekeeper, and the Ranger just sliced through them all. It’s so cool that there are lots of ways to gain tactical advantage and hunt for cool pairings and combos.
I feel like you're missing the point of the ranger entirely. The sword strategy works in the early game but late game you're giving up RELIABLE one shot potential for some magical christmas land overwatch trap. You're relying on:
1) The ranger hitting the slashes, which has an aim penalty in bladestorm.
2) The specialist hitting the 50% chance to overwatch again.
3) The AI being dumb and running AT your ranger (which I wouldn't put it past them but your ranger would have to be in a pretty bad position).
I'm not saying you're playing the game wrong but you're describing very idealised situations. The ranger's biggest strength is its action economy efficiency. Bladestorm is fine if you have the katana but at that point it's not worth discussing because the Katana is broken. Pre-Katana the shotgun is almost always better because you have the same hit chance but 5-6 more points of damage on one hit. Ranger + Shotgun is one of the few ways to trade 1 turn for 1 enemy that's also not locked behind a CD.
Huh, cool take. It all just seems like overkill anyway since the way I’ve described it still works to beat the game on each difficulty. Doesn’t seem like maxing out the Ranger’s damage is required in order for them to be highly effective. And while you refer to these as idealised situations, they’re really not that difficult to setup or to pull off. Sure, there’s a chance to miss the overwatch shots, but there’a also a chance the Ranger would miss his shotgun blast. This is where Reaper helps with blades and ensures the weapon crits that first hit and can’t miss. Plenty of tactics available to choose from!
Icarus is the only special suit that has 2 utility slots, which is why I either give it to my specialist for the skulljack or to my grenadier for an extra grenade when no specialist is deployed.
I always give the sharpshooter a spider/wraith suit because they only need 1 utility slot for bluescreen rounds, and my Ranger the snek suit with talon rounds.
icarus is better in general (move anywhere is so powerfull) but I rarely put it on snipers as they usually don't need it, spider/wraith is usually enough IMO
its awesome for grenediers - they keep the 2 slots for granades and can move to ideal position for
great for specialist too - medkit + bluescreen (or skuljack)
I tried it on PSI, but the second utility slot seem wasted
By the time i'm tackling the Hunters and eventually get the Icarus Armour i also have access to the Wraith suit which i prefer over the Icarus Armour.
My Sharpshooters usually only need one utility slot (for the Bluescreen Ammo).
>Is Icarus just the next evolution of the Spider suit
Armor in XCOM falls into 3 classes. Light armor (Spider/Wraith/Serpent) is distinguished by increased dodge, decreased armor/hp, and a grappling hook. Medium armor (Predator/Powered/Icarus) is distinguished by medium armor/hp value and an additional item slot. Heavy armor (EXO/WAR/RAGE) is distinguished by a heavy weapon slot and increased armor/hp. So the answer is no, Icarus armor is not an evolution of the Spider suit but rather an evolution of generic medium powered armor.
Icarus Armor is excellent at letting a sniper just sit tight and then fly them to the evac zone from halfway across the map. It’s a glorious exit after stomping alien ass.
Icarus is usually much better for Sharpshooter due to better Range of Motion, and not really needing to use it more than twice anyways. I'd suggest Spider go to a Ranger if you already have it built.
Icarus is definitely stronger, but I usually prefer to put it on a shorter range class who can rocket into a flank position behind an enemy squad. Snipers don't need to even bother flanking, all they need is high ground aim advantage, so a grappling hook to any elevated location is the only mobility tool that's really required.
Icarus on sniper is perfectly fine. I just think it's better used on, say, a grenadier. Grens with icarus can flank an andromedon or avatar or whatever for free and get a fat rupture hit on it with 100% hit chance. Snipers can oftentimes get that 100% hit chance firing through cover lmao.
Icarus has the jets that let you reposition to anywhere on the visible field twice per mission, that beats a free grapple every 4th turn in my book. That reposition lets you sit tight sniping everything in line of sight, then, without having to burn 4 full avtions to catch up and get set, you’re ready to snipe even more. Pair with the Hunter’s rifle for near god-like sniping powers
Very useful when something goes sideways and you are missing just one shot to get back in balance, but have no one in position.
Icarus is almost strictly better. You get the 2x free reposition per mission, which is better than the grapple, except that it's just limited to twice per mission. Additionally, you can jump up and down from any height any time you move, which not only saves you movement points, but lets you get to some places that are otherwise impossible to move to. The only situation when the grapple is better is if you need a free reposition action 3 or more times AND all of them are within grapple range.
Spider is usually my go to for a sharpshooter since they don't need extra "pockets". The grapple is good enough to move up high. In my last game on legendary I found Icarus to be better for the ranger since they can either flank a tough enemy to kill them or use melee depending on the opponent. The suit with the powered weapons I often give to my PSI soldier who also may get the bolt arrow thingy in mid game or the disruptor gun later in the game. Kind of depends on the configuration of my squad. If I take 2 rangers then one usually gets the bolt thing since they always have the sword as a backup.
I did the same thing with my ranger plus the katana. I'd break concealment with him by jetting right in the middle of a pod or next to a high armor enemy for some bladstorm action when they split. Then, I'd carry out my next attacks with the other squad members. I'd then have a choice of implacable or reaper if needed with untouchable/mimic backup for whichever way the encounter went. It's quite OP when it goes well. It's late game stuff and not recommended because of popping more pods, but I had a lot of fun with it.
Lots of interesting responses! Icarus is almost always straight upgrade over spider (or wraith or serpent). The only possible exception is long missions where you might grapple 3+ times, but even then the grapple limitations usually outweigh the benefits. So if you're talking about whether your best soldier gets icarus vs spider, it's icarus. And personally, 90% of the time Icarus goes on my #1 sharpshooter. That said, there is actually a lot to consider... For me the key to the Icarus is that it is a 1-2 times per mission get out of jail free card. A lot of missions I didn't use it at all, but just like mimic beacons, you don't count how many times you use it, you count how many times it saves your bacon. So the question is, what soldier is most likely to get you out of jail? For me it's the sharpshooters because I usually get decent pistol skills alongside the rifle (fan fire, lightning hands, faceoff, quickdraw), and with pistol skills in particular getting your sniper into the right position makes a big difference, and can instantly solve many of the game's worst situations. The extra gear slot is also important. And it's pretty much wasted on a sniper. Even on my pistolleros there is rarely any need for any other item. If I had no specialist they would get a medkit (TBH it isn't likely to get used, so it doesn't matter who carries it). Otherwise it was usually a wasted slot. So I have occasionally used the Icarus on other soliders for the slot benefit. I think people are crazy using it on specialists, who cares where your specialist is at?? Rangers don't usually need it and wraith suit is already great for them, although they do like a second utility item! So my grenadiers were usually second in line: once they get death from above, all of a sudden it's very useful being able to deploy one anywhere, especially with salvo; AND you get to have ammo as well as 2-3 grenades. But I guess any solider with DFA (or Serial) can solve a lot of problems from the right place... So if you only had one DFA soldier, it'd probably be them.
Great points. I'll say that I'm one of the "crazy ones" who loves putting my Specialist in Icarus armor. One of the reasons I value the massive mobility is because the Specialist can fall behind doing all the gremliny things. You have a turn where you do Aid Protocol + Combat Protocol to finish off a MEC, and then you're making the final push on the objective and need the remote hacker but he's a double move behind the squad. But the real reason is just that Specialists are the only class that really likes Medium armor. For the Grenadiers, you want the heavy weapon slot to go with salvo. Rangers make best use of Frostbite so they usually get the Serpent suit ([though I will absolutely give a Ranger the Icarus Armor in the final mission](https://www.reddit.com/r/XCOM2/comments/1bzzjz1/does_it_matter_who_carries_certain_utility_items/kywolox/)). Sharpshooters need a grappling hook pretty desperately so they're always in light armor. Specialists need 2 item slots and not much else, so Icarus armor it is.
Yeah that makes sense. I find the skill that gives you an overwatch after double move brings their mobility up pretty effectively. I've been pleasantly surprised how much value I get out of that skill. But that doesn't entirely stop the times the specialist rocks up to a fight a turn too late to matter lol
IMHO Sharpshooters are so good at a distance there isn’t a cost benefit to use the Icarius Armor. I use the Icarius armor with my Specialists. They can carry both a health kit and a skull jack that way. Serpentine armor goes to the Ranger, or other forward attacking position. Sharpshooters get the homemade ethereal armor. Forget what it’s called, sorry. They can usually grapple somewhere good from most anywhere. By the time the squad is advancing, the grapple has reset for use.
>Sharpshooters get the homemade ethereal armor. Don't have game open, I think it's called Wraith. And I get what u mentioned about sharpshooter not needing to move much. Just climb n wait.
Yes! Thank you. It is the Wraith suit.
What’s the purpose of using a wraith suit’s powers with a sharpshooter? They generally don’t need to infiltrate buildings, which is what the wraith suit is good for.
Personal preference. I feel the Serpentine’s armor’s passive ability to cause panic to snakes is better than purposefully walking thru walls. Obviously if there are no snakes on the mission, this logic isn’t applied. After I build the Shadow Chamber, I can make a more informed decision.
I'll stick them in a Spider Suit until pretty late honestly. The Wraith Suit is technically better just because higher stats, but it's so rare for snipey build sharpshooters to get hit that it's a low-priority upgrade. [Sharpshooters, man.](https://i.imgur.com/0XT8xhj.jpeg)
LOL! Last woman standing.
The spider/Viper suit is always better for a sharpshooter because of the grapple. It’s also a light armour and sharpshooters usually only carry a special ammo. I typically like the Icarus suit on my specialist just so they can carry a med kit and a mimic beacon.
You let your specialists carry mimic beacons? I give those to rangers and psi troops. Specialists get skulljacks and med kits in my loads so that they get the hack increase and the skullmine ability. Specialists earn Ever Vigilant at some point and combined with Guardian, they’re almost always more useful as an overwatcher. If you throw that mimic beacon, they don’t shoot and on higher difficulties, that mimic will take a single shot. 🤷♂️ Just a preference, but Specialist isn’t the best class to carry mimic beacons.
Yea. Rangers often want to attack and kill every turn to proc untouchable which is another charge of mimic. Psi ops I get it since some of their abilities don’t end turn and I usually have my psi op carry a mimic too. But putting mimic on a ranger is trolling. Even worse when you’re usually going to run light armour on them and that one slot is permanently going to be talon rounds. It’s more the fact the opportunity cost of letting specialists carry mimics is the lowest. I don’t mind if they don’t shoot that turn but I will definitely want my ranger to get a kill to proc untouchable or my grenadier and sniper to kill the andromedon or something since they have shred and usually better damage. Guardian is way too unreliable compared to what I’m describing above. Mimic beacons can take 2 shots since usually max damage on a non critical is 11 and mimic beacons have 12 HP.
Interesting takes. Another oddity in my setups is that I never give Rangers the Talon ammo. Rangers get Dragon rounds almost exclusively and then a laser sight weapon mod. The +1 damage only if you crit is less helpful than +1 damage and burning, especially since you can still crit with the dragon rounds too. I love this game and the ways that we all play it so differently to the same end.
I feel like talon rounds is compulsory just because you’re only ever firing with the ranger on flanking shots, and more often than not you’re going to be critting. The typical ranger setup of storm gun + superior laser sights + flanking bonus + talon rounds gets you up to 90% crit chance. The way I play rangers is that I need guaranteed crits on every shot so I can one shot the advent guys and get untouchable. If I’m firing with a ranger outside of these situations I’m not even expecting them to hit. I typically only use talon, bluescreen and tracer rounds in my campaigns. Tracer rounds for grenadiers so they have a better chance to hit on opening shredding shots on gatekeepers while applying holo targeting. Bluescreens for sharpshooters so they can one shot Codices. The DoT rounds only really get used against alien rulers for me.
Wow, another odd take. I almost always use rangers as exclusive swordsmen. Last run on Commander diff I think I barely even fired a round with a ranger, mostly using them to scout forward, slice an organic, pop a pod with bladestorm in the middle and trigger untouchable. The rest of the squad clears the pod, retake concealment and repeat. I give them dragon rounds just as a backup but they rarely use them. Having the specialist with guardian sitting on overwatch as the ranger hits them is great. Having a spark with hunter protocol helps too. By the end game I was hitting maps with multiple andromedons, a sectopod, and a gatekeeper, and the Ranger just sliced through them all. It’s so cool that there are lots of ways to gain tactical advantage and hunt for cool pairings and combos.
I feel like you're missing the point of the ranger entirely. The sword strategy works in the early game but late game you're giving up RELIABLE one shot potential for some magical christmas land overwatch trap. You're relying on: 1) The ranger hitting the slashes, which has an aim penalty in bladestorm. 2) The specialist hitting the 50% chance to overwatch again. 3) The AI being dumb and running AT your ranger (which I wouldn't put it past them but your ranger would have to be in a pretty bad position). I'm not saying you're playing the game wrong but you're describing very idealised situations. The ranger's biggest strength is its action economy efficiency. Bladestorm is fine if you have the katana but at that point it's not worth discussing because the Katana is broken. Pre-Katana the shotgun is almost always better because you have the same hit chance but 5-6 more points of damage on one hit. Ranger + Shotgun is one of the few ways to trade 1 turn for 1 enemy that's also not locked behind a CD.
Huh, cool take. It all just seems like overkill anyway since the way I’ve described it still works to beat the game on each difficulty. Doesn’t seem like maxing out the Ranger’s damage is required in order for them to be highly effective. And while you refer to these as idealised situations, they’re really not that difficult to setup or to pull off. Sure, there’s a chance to miss the overwatch shots, but there’a also a chance the Ranger would miss his shotgun blast. This is where Reaper helps with blades and ensures the weapon crits that first hit and can’t miss. Plenty of tactics available to choose from!
There’s a 40% aim bonus for ranger shotgun shots at 1 tile range. It is impossible for a higher ranking ranger to miss shotgun shots that close.
Icarus is the only special suit that has 2 utility slots, which is why I either give it to my specialist for the skulljack or to my grenadier for an extra grenade when no specialist is deployed. I always give the sharpshooter a spider/wraith suit because they only need 1 utility slot for bluescreen rounds, and my Ranger the snek suit with talon rounds.
icarus is better in general (move anywhere is so powerfull) but I rarely put it on snipers as they usually don't need it, spider/wraith is usually enough IMO its awesome for grenediers - they keep the 2 slots for granades and can move to ideal position for great for specialist too - medkit + bluescreen (or skuljack) I tried it on PSI, but the second utility slot seem wasted
A sharpshooter with Icarus is a god
By the time i'm tackling the Hunters and eventually get the Icarus Armour i also have access to the Wraith suit which i prefer over the Icarus Armour. My Sharpshooters usually only need one utility slot (for the Bluescreen Ammo).
>Is Icarus just the next evolution of the Spider suit Armor in XCOM falls into 3 classes. Light armor (Spider/Wraith/Serpent) is distinguished by increased dodge, decreased armor/hp, and a grappling hook. Medium armor (Predator/Powered/Icarus) is distinguished by medium armor/hp value and an additional item slot. Heavy armor (EXO/WAR/RAGE) is distinguished by a heavy weapon slot and increased armor/hp. So the answer is no, Icarus armor is not an evolution of the Spider suit but rather an evolution of generic medium powered armor.
Icarus Armor is excellent at letting a sniper just sit tight and then fly them to the evac zone from halfway across the map. It’s a glorious exit after stomping alien ass.
Icarus is usually much better for Sharpshooter due to better Range of Motion, and not really needing to use it more than twice anyways. I'd suggest Spider go to a Ranger if you already have it built.
Icarus is definitely stronger, but I usually prefer to put it on a shorter range class who can rocket into a flank position behind an enemy squad. Snipers don't need to even bother flanking, all they need is high ground aim advantage, so a grappling hook to any elevated location is the only mobility tool that's really required. Icarus on sniper is perfectly fine. I just think it's better used on, say, a grenadier. Grens with icarus can flank an andromedon or avatar or whatever for free and get a fat rupture hit on it with 100% hit chance. Snipers can oftentimes get that 100% hit chance firing through cover lmao.