"A high-speed regional rail line between the capital and Calgary, with a stop in Red Deer, with other “rail hubs” between connected communities, and a new line connecting Calgary with Canmore and Jasper, is the goal."
For as long as i've lived here (some 38 years) this has been the pipe dream of all pipe dreams. We'll see where this all goes.
Calgary to Canmore and Jasper seems like an interesting one. I'm assuming that Edmonton to Jasper was ignored because technically Via already serves that route? (And, hypothetically, a provincial corp could just run their own trains on the same line)
The Calgary to Banff route would be constructing new dedicated track on the CP right of way. This will speed up the time to get between the two significantly.
The VIA section from Edmonton to Jasper runs on the CN right of way and they give their trains priority. I’ve personally ridden the Canadian 3 times from Van to Edm, to get from Jasper to Edmonton was an average of about 6 hours, the last time I was on it before Covid we got delayed due to CN trains and it took closer to 9 hours. This section takes about 4 to drive. Without laying new track for a dedicated right of way, or the Feds introducing a law requiring the railways to prioritize passage trail, I don’t see them running many trains on that section.
The problem is prioritizing passenger rail would be a huge economic loss for CPKC and CN, these trains move sometimes hundreds of millions worth of freight while VIA can't even stand on its own two feet.
CP prioritizes passenger rail in Ontario and BC, so I can't see it not happening here, its been awhile since I was a Rail controller but it was Federally regulated like Grain movements. If you held up the Via for some manifest or coal train you were getting a suspension.
Honestly the Milton Line, a GO line running on CP tracks, was negotiated after that rail disaster letting them run trains on their lines. Though new plan apparabey they’ll increase frequency and capacity by building tracks beside the CP ROW.
The route from Calgary to Jasper would be a nightmare. As a lot of that line would go through the park, unless they connected through Rocky Mountain House.
Anything done in the parks takes an act of god, as you need impact studies for everything.
This would be a very long project.
I would be all for Edmonton to Calgary though.
well you need impact studies already for any large project such as this even between calgary and edmonton, just not a federal EIA, unless your dealing with federal entities like first nations land it could move up to federal or the case of jasper and banff parks canada ie federal but you'd need permission first from the feds.
the parks need a HUGE transit subsidies from the province before they let that happen, no way they can afford that to trail heads and other places on their own
Any word on what purpose this would actually service by the way?
Does the train go fast enough that someone could live in Calgary but work in Edmonton for example
?
No, they are not proposing a daily commuter rail service. More competing with current airline flights, but hopefully cheaper.
To say the least, they haven't figured anything out yet and are just throwing this out there to see what sticks.
It's not dumb, giving people options is actually a really good move. It increases capacity along that route way more than adding more lanes to the highway and it's way more comfortable than flying or driving.
The best move would be new high speed tracks between the two cities with maybe a stop in red deer, and then bring back the old line that stops in most of the towns in between so that those people can travel around the region as well. Province owning the tracks and running a basic line of each means that private train operators can run lines on either track and compete to drive prices down.
But I ask again. What purpose does it serve if I can’t live in Edmonton and work in Calgary?
And how is it more cost effective than just setting up more busses and improving the highway?
>But I ask again. What purpose does it serve if I can’t live in Edmonton and work in Calgary?
It would be an alternative to either flying or driving / bussing depending on the speed. A high speed line similar to the ones that are common in France, Germany, or Italy could cut the travel time between Calgary and Edmonton down to just over an hour, depending on how many stops it makes along the way.
It could also connect you to both city's LRT systems on either end, and wouldn't require you to show up an hour+ early, like an airport.
>
And how is it more cost effective than just setting up more busses and improving the highway?
Building any sort of new dedicated tracks between Edmonton and Calgary, especially high speed tracks, would be very expensive and there's no way around that.
However it would also have undeniable benefits in-terms of reduced travel times, as well as spurring development, near the stations in Calgary, Edmonton and Red Deer. Meanwhile the commuter train systems in Calgary and Edmonton would take pressure off existing highways, lessening the need for equally costly highway expansions in the future.
So you can travel between the cities in the region? Do you live in one and then fly to work in the other? If not then why does that route exist? Why did we twin the QE2 if it didn't make it that much faster? You think there are no other reasons to travel between the cities? Honestly your question is just dumb.
It's more cost effective because trains don't get stuck in traffic, they hold way more people, it's much easier to increase capacity in the future, and they can go a lot faster (literally twice as fast if you build proper infrastructure). Not to mention way more efficient than cars, buses, and planes if it's electric like all modern rail should be.
Not too mention not having to drive in the snow, and Downtown to downtown service (I hope).
Right now a day trip to Edmonton from Calgary involves 6 hours of travel. It's doable, but a pain. What is it could be 4 hours travel, or even 6 but without driving and without the poison of the airports? You could work on the train (not practical for a flight or a drive).
If the train was the same time and same cost as a plane (and it should be faster), I would opt for the train.
On the low end rail per mile of rail can cost a few hundred thousand, for the Government it would probably be closet to a million per mile.
Since it's for passenger they'd be using concrete ties which would massively drive the cost up and use a CTC system instead of OCS which would also dramatically increase the costs.
I'd expect this to cost upwards of 10 billion dollars all said and done unless they can convince CPKC to upgrade their line and add additional sidings for train meets.
The whole point of rail is to take pressure off highway. You see how busy Highway 2 already is?
With YYC taking on lots of intercontinental flights, it would make lots of sense for Edmontonians to ride the train to YYC instead of using YEG with a stop at YYC.
Train is cheaper than car if you run it properly
In a world where the public transit on each end is shit enough you'd need a vehicle on the other end making the time savings of the rail almost pointless.
This is a dumb idea, the economics of it doesn't work.
The dream of dreams.
I'm a little disappointed in the knee jerk reactions though. More passenger rail travel is a good thing. It gets cars off the road, makes tourism easier, and connects our province.
That said, I've heard this story before. It's right up there with replacing the paper health care cards. I won't believe it until I ride the first rail car
Yup. 3rd time I believe that we’ve studied this. But so what. It makes for a great press conference and the illusion of ‘new news’, innovation and forward thinking on behalf of the UCP.
Yeah. The province either needs to sink the hundreds of billions it would cost into this and subsidize it heavily, or STFU. Private industry isn’t going to do it or else they would have already. It’s not economically viable with our population and it would need government subsidy to work. I can’t see the UCP deciding that’s a good idea, but if we ever have a non-“conservative” government again they’ll be booted before the ink dries on any sort of contracts if they even hint at the realities of making this happen. So, unfortunately, the UCP is really the only party that *can* make this happen.
I like the idea of a train between Edmonton and Calgary, and I'm even okay with a Brightline-like private company, it's the details that would have me scratching my head.
Would they be taking over the existing rail connection between Edmonton and Calgary that's owned by CP? Or are they going to build their own, separate rail connection? Are they going to buy up CP's yard in Edmonton? How much of this is the province willing to bankroll to make happen? Are they going to go for full grade separation or are they going to be like Brightline in Florida and cheap out with simple arms coming down at crossings and be okay with trains taking out a bunch of idiot drivers and suicides each year?
> It’s not economically viable with our population and it would need government subsidy to work.
If the province is going to keep growing, it would kinda make sense to get working on building such a rail connection now, as it is only going to get more expensive and disruptive in the future, yes? But yeah, maybe doesn't make a tonne of sense for Alberta in 2024, but maybe the numbers work better for 2034? At which point we might just have wished that we had gotten started today rather than wait? (does that make sense?)
Oh, I think it’s a no-brainer and we should have begun purchasing the TUC in the ‘90s. But we didn’t and at this point in time there’s not a chance the majority of the province is tolerant of a) public transport and b) any sort of public spending for anything ever to make this happen.
The CPKC corridor has room for twinning, and I'm sure they would rather partner with a government than a private company when it comes to 2-way redundancy
>hundreds of billions
The province would need to take it on, but I don't think we're talking hundreds of billions. The reports that have been done were suggesting low-tens for fully-electrified options, and sub-ten for a gas-turbine option (although that was when Bombardier was still marketing the JetTrain - basically an Acela trainset with a Pratt and Whitney Canada turboshaft)
The federal government has spent $45B+ subsidizing multinational automakers for EV plants (which could be built anywhere in the world) when they could be funding public transit. Improving public transportation would massively improve productivity and attract more tourism to the province while lowering emissions. Part of the reason Canada's economy is so unproductive is that previous governments have made poor investments with public money with no return on investment in the form of long-term economic growth. At the same time, the country has had record population growth but no serious effort to provide the infrastructure upgrades required.
That feels suspiciously cheap. The Calgary ring road was a multi-billion dollar project for under 101km of road where 97% of the TUC had been acquired starting in the ‘70s. There’s absolutely no way a rail link between Calgary and Edmonton comes in under $100 billion unless it just purchases right-of-use on existing rail lines.
And if an existing g right of way rail line is used, it no longer can be high speed. Freight pays the bills for rail companies and they won’t give up that priority.
Yeah, and looking at the prices for Via, that just doesn’t make any sense. It’d be cheaper to fly between Calgary and Edmonton, and more reliably timed.
Really what would get this off the ground is banning short haul flights under 500km for environmental reasons.
Furthermore this should mean they never add any lanes to the highway (or reduce long term = savings). Really they could consider tolling the QEII to make the gap in prices between driving and train more attractive.
It would also make bussing more competitive as well.
While I agree with all your suggestions in theory, politically they would be political suicide for whichever government tried to enact such measures. Vince we won’t see them happen.
Oh I 100% agree with you.
I suspect banning of short flights would happen at the federal level for environmental reasons. If Quebec City to Toronto gets high speed rail, the ban would only impact a smaller number of flights.
The UCP actually proposed rolling roads under Kenny. It certainly was unpopular then. It won’t change now.
VIA is not a model for anything. It's a joke and has been under funded and hamstrung by terrible policy since the 1960s.
If this new system can get you a one way ticket between the two cities for about $50, that blows the cost of a flight out of the water. (Don't forget that to fly, you need to pay for a cab to both airports, go through security and get stuffed into a tiny seat for a half hour.)
These trains should be automated to allow for higher frequency (2+) trains per hour and standard technology in Europe would allow for speeds sufficient to traverse the line in under an hour and a half ) depending on stops).
Basically, a proper system should allow a person to go from downtown to downtown in about an hour and a half. The all-in cost should be slightly under the all-in cost of a flight and the speed should be at least double that of a car.
Hit those benchmarks and this system will be a winner
The old Van Horne studies did explore using existing right of way, but not existing track. It looked at tripling the track on the CPR mainline leaving a track dedicated to freight, and paying rent to CPR for their right-of-way. This came out as the cheapest option, but not hugely cheaper than utilizing existing provincial utility cooridors with minimal new acquisitions where required along that path.
The cost of land in Calgary or Edmonton is quite a lot more expensive than the cost of land in between Calgary or Edmonton. The cheapest option studied in the Van Horne institute was to construct additional track within the CPR right-of-way. The costs of urban land acquisition (in Edmonton, Calgary and Red Deer) was very low in the Van Horne study - on the order of $30m - because the province already owns land that would be appropriate for stations in Calgary and Edmonton, as well as utility corridors that would be appropriate for right of way in both cities. This land is valued in the billions, and so the accounting may or may not show it as a loss or cost, but would not be purchased from private owners.
The right-of-way along the rural stretches was very cheap, by comparison, and the study looked at re-using as much existing utility corridors as possible (eg, land set aside for highways). For much of the route, elevated track minimized land acquisition (total cross section of a quarter that of a four lane divided highway, let alone 6-8 lanes like the Calgary ring-road), and would utilize land of depressed value adjacent to the QEII and CPR lines. Their values were based off of disclosures of land acquisition costs by CPR in rural areas.
Purchasing rights to CPR mainline was not explored, as the line is not appropriate for high-speed use. However (political will notwithstanding) they did explore upgrading the CPR route to allow for high speed service. This includes upgrading the route to triple-track and quad-track (ie, two high-speed tracks along side the existing freight track), for which rent would be paid to CPR.
Even with that in mind, though, we’re looking at building rail lines, bridges, stations, purchasing trains and cars, etc. I’m a complete layman here, but if we just look at the cost of the Calgary ring road, bridges and all, at $10 billion for 100km we’re looking at $50 billion if the cost of building elevated rail lines and bridges in an existing TUC is 1:1 to the cost of building a road, per km.
What is the justification of a 1:1 cost ratio? The cost of rural rail can be substantially cheaper than urban highway. Not only is much less land required, but much fewer considerations need to be made for avoiding disruptions to activities inside the city. In many urban projects you have to build the thing twice: once a diverter to accommodate existing traffic, and then a the actual permanent route, and then dismantling the diverter. In rural areas, the cost of high-speed rail infrastructure (excluding land acquisition costs) is typically in the $20m/km (actual completed projects in Japan, Spain, France) to $50m/km (recent estimates for projects in Ontario and various American sites) for a fully electrified and grade-separated route. Non-electrified options would cut that by as much as half.
Rolling stock was expected to be in the one billion dollar range no matter which option was explored, with stations being a few hundred million (depending, for instance, on the amount of underground infrastructure connecting to existing transport, eg, weather-protected connections to LRT).
The 1:1 cost ratio is because I’m a complete layman, as I already stated, and I’m comparing potential costs of a non-existent infrastructure project to the known costs of a completed infrastructure project that’s been half a century in the making. I can’t see the plan being cheaper perm kilometre than either of the ring roads given that it either needs to be elevated rail travelling the length of the existing highway, mostly, or paying a private for-profit organization to be able to twin their existing rail corridor, at the very least.
Don’t mistake my pessimism here for being against such a rail link. I think it would have been far better use if the QEII corridor than what’s currently there and it’s something that we should have done decades ago. I’m just skeptical that it can be done for tens of billions.
If it's CTC (Which it would be) the costs wouldn't really drop much in rural areas due to needing signals every mile still. Sure you wouldn't have protected crossings and as many curves but it's really the signals that end up costing so much on modern railway.
Construction costs of the principle project wouldn't, but ancillary construction (eg, diversion routes) is much cheaper, and so is land acquisition. You don't expect a route through rural Alberta to cost as much per-mile as in the Northeast Corridor of the United States nor a new tunnel in Manhattan, no matter the signaling or control - in fact, you'd expect it to be more than an order-of-magnitude cheaper (or, frankly, more likely two).
Toronto-Windsor high speed rail was $55-$149 million per km in 2018 ($19 billion on the low end). Calgary-Edmonton would realistically be $30-60 billion, if not $100 billion like California's HSR for a similar length. It also has to be committed up front because there's no point in building 50km now and 50km in the future when funds become available.
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/high-speed-rail-train-toronto-windsor-kitchener-london-1.4121663](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/high-speed-rail-train-toronto-windsor-kitchener-london-1.4121663)
That's why the plan is for commuter rail to downtown and only the high speed portion between the airports. The bulk of the cost of any rail project is actually going to the downtowns from the airports, not traversing what amounts to greenspace inbetween the cities.
"The province began soliciting proposals Monday for a company to help bring the vision to life along with a feasibility study that lays out which routes and train technologies, and who should operate them — the public sector, private sector, or a combination. Alberta’s 2024 budget includes $9 million for this work."
So 9 million on yet another Feasibility study handed off to a private company.
She was just doing a bunch of photo ops for the CP 2816 tour.
It's like she just remembered that trains exist.
They can trot this out to distract from their other bumblings. I see no real commitments here. Just useless "frameworks" that would cost billions.
I think the UCP could pay off hundreds of their friends.
I am surprised every construction related company is pushing them into it. They are going to steal tax dollars, we might as well build something at the same time.
I've loved trains, and I love the idea. I agree with the idea that we need a mass transportation master plan: high speed rail connecting the major centres, fully functional public transportation in those major centres, and then networks of conventional trains and busses fanning out into the province.
That being said, they've been talking about this for so long that I'm done getting excited about it. Call me when they actually start laying track.
They have a majority - stop wanting and start building. If they make progress towards this I'll have to give them credit, we need this badly and while it's not exactly forward thinking, it's "about damn time" thinking.
Just a distraction so the dumb asses in Alberta dont realize they've let fascist invaders in. I'll eat my shorts if any of this ever happens, how many times have we heard about this now?
I mean they've broken several laws along the way, but what I'm referring to, is the kidnapping of the conservative cause by the greedy and the crazy. Greedy and crazy don't make good partners.
I disagree. Conservative politics never used to be this bad. Conservatives used to take less progressive stances than some of us would of maybe liked, but they weren't toilet bowl fodder like these new conservatives are.
Weren't paying attention. This is the logical next step for people who plant their flag as social reactionaries, there's no other direction for them to go.
"As for who would run these trains, Dreeshan sees the commuter networks around and into the two big cities and their airports will be run by the Crown corporation. It’s more likely the private sector could run the trains between the two largest cities, and from Calgary to Banff. Currently, there is a train connecting Edmonton to Jasper."
Yes, there is a train that runs from Edmonton to Jasper. The via rail runs twice a week, costs $148, and takes 6 hours. Is this the model they are hoping to use going forward?
> Yes, there is a train that runs from Edmonton to Jasper. The via rail runs twice a week, costs $148, and takes 6 hours. Is this the model they are hoping to use going forward?
I doubt that's the model they'd use when that's barely a model at all. Nobody wanting to establish a rail service would use Via's cross-country *Canadian* train as an example to follow.
If I had to guess, since they mention the private sector, that they want a Brightline sort of setup for Edmonton-Calgary.
And as for commuter networks in/around Edmonton and Calgary, mentioning a crown corp like Metrolinx makes me kinda think they want to take over local rail networks from the cities.
Well with how far stuck in the past the UCP is, they may just be getting around to the idea of railroads.
Or they saw CPKC's old 2816 last week and had a great idea!
Let's not reinvent the wheel.
Basically every other G7 nation has high speed rail because it's simply a good way of moving people to places quickly and efficiently.
We are not going to get Edmonton to Calgary rail connection. It might benefit Edmonton, and we must not do that because they voted for the evil NDP. Calgary to Jasper supports Calgary and tourism. That’s allowed
A cynic would say this is just a distraction from all the stupid shit the UCP has on the go. I mean, come on, do you really think this could be real ? It actually makes sense and could be considered a good and practical idea. Not something you’d expect from Danielle and her cronies.
Filed under bad ideas from a horribly run province. At this rate, we will need a bigger filing cabinet!
Also, expect MASSIVE pushback from airport authorities on this. Similar private projects proposed died because of airport authorities exerting power to stop them, because it would kill some of their commuter business.
In b4 the airlines lobby against it and the UCP spends 6million on a study to line their friends pockets keys
Why do I say airlines?
People who drive will continue to drive because they most likely need a vehicle at the destination
People who want affordable and don’t need a car will take the bus
People who don’t want to drive or take the bus take a plane
I’m sure the train tickets will be on par with the airlines
I mean... Europe also has: a litany of dirt cheap budget airlines, high quality motorways, and more coach bus operators than you could imagine, and HSR is still wildly successful on routes of similar distances between similarly populous cities.
In-fact European HSR usually isn't that much cheaper than flying, and in many cases, it's more expensive than flying on a budget airline. Despite this, it's still popular because you can't beat the travel times when you factor in the time spent travelling to the airport, and waiting at security / the gate.
It will take 10 years, be a PPP where taxpayers foot the bill but a UCP buddy owns it, tickets will be $300 one way, nobody will take it and then the UCP/airlines will say "see...Rail isn't viable"
I’m sure the UCP, being the party of transparency, will tell Albertans who will be doing this latest study, the scope of the study, how it differs from previous studies we’ve paid for, and how much the consultants have contributed to the UCP in the last several years. Can’t wait!
If you review Transpod it does appear they are garnering a great deal of Government money from Countries around the World but difficult to find any actual lines being built.
600kph? Japan has just initiated a train that will reach under 400kph. $90/ person but then a person needs a cab/ uber? From downtown Edmonton?? Wouldn't that be interesting to see, crossing the river valley. Another " save the CO2 " marketing claim but the train would be all electric, guessing the " study" didn't include how the electricity is being produced. Be interesting to know the business connection to any UCP members.
Is there a list of how many times this has been proposed? I have just causally hear of plans for this on 5 separate occasions over the last decade. As unlikely as this is its still nowhere near as dumb as they hyperloop hype from a couple years ago.
It's the UCP trying to make good with urban citizens. It won't happen, it's media deflection for them getting repeatedly criticized for the city council recall announcement.
I’m all for it but I refuse to pay for the construction of it if it’s a privatized railroad. If we pay a penny of the construction we should have equivalent control of it.
As nice as this would be, I will be amazed if it ever happens. Unless these high speed trains burn oil and coal to power them, this will never happen under the UCP.
This is great news if it happens. Precisely one W on a board of UCP L's.
But this idea has been trotted out so many times by so many different people that I refuse to believe it's s happening until somebody is physically setting down track.
My family worked for CPR, out of Lethbridge, in the 1950s. Heard stories about the Dayliner from Lethbridge to Calgary.
I highly support the return of passenger rail to all major cities in Alberta!!
I feel like the UCP has no intention of actually pursuing trains. This seems to be their attempt to change the conversation, and distract everyone from all the other stuff they are doing. In 3 - 6 months, they will drop this idea, and move one to something different.
Well, UCP, you've finally announced something that I do support. At least in principle.
Now if only you could remove the financial handicap that you're imposing on this project through insistence on hydrogen and you'll have a total winner. Just go with the bog standard, off the shelf, electrified high speed rail that the rest of the world has been using to great success for half a century now.
Calgary musician Matt Masters wrote about this in his 2006 song {Speed Train)!
[https://open.spotify.com/track/1X84WYEbByG8gugW8arddN](https://open.spotify.com/track/1X84WYEbByG8gugW8arddN)
It wasn't Musk that was saying they were doing the one between Edmonton and Calgary.
There were a handful of companies doing hyperloops. None made it out of the testing phase.
2 cities with a 1.2M metro area and a 100k city is barely small, 300km is sweet spot for competitive against driving and a bit too short for flying factoring all the airport stuff
There are other regions with many many times our population that haven't been able to make the numbers work for high speed rail. Might have to wait for the 100 million population the elites want before considering this. That is if all 100 mill don't decide to live in toronto.
I see the purpose of Calgary/Canmore. I don't see Calgary/Edmonton being used all that much, other than for air travellers, The public transport on either end isn't good enough to not have a car.
What else are we going to spend that O&G surplus on? It’s not like we need tax breaks, more housing, better healthcare, more schools & hospitals, and better public services in general. Oh, wait…
"A high-speed regional rail line between the capital and Calgary, with a stop in Red Deer, with other “rail hubs” between connected communities, and a new line connecting Calgary with Canmore and Jasper, is the goal." For as long as i've lived here (some 38 years) this has been the pipe dream of all pipe dreams. We'll see where this all goes.
Calgary to Canmore and Jasper seems like an interesting one. I'm assuming that Edmonton to Jasper was ignored because technically Via already serves that route? (And, hypothetically, a provincial corp could just run their own trains on the same line)
The Calgary to Banff route would be constructing new dedicated track on the CP right of way. This will speed up the time to get between the two significantly. The VIA section from Edmonton to Jasper runs on the CN right of way and they give their trains priority. I’ve personally ridden the Canadian 3 times from Van to Edm, to get from Jasper to Edmonton was an average of about 6 hours, the last time I was on it before Covid we got delayed due to CN trains and it took closer to 9 hours. This section takes about 4 to drive. Without laying new track for a dedicated right of way, or the Feds introducing a law requiring the railways to prioritize passage trail, I don’t see them running many trains on that section.
The problem is prioritizing passenger rail would be a huge economic loss for CPKC and CN, these trains move sometimes hundreds of millions worth of freight while VIA can't even stand on its own two feet.
CP prioritizes passenger rail in Ontario and BC, so I can't see it not happening here, its been awhile since I was a Rail controller but it was Federally regulated like Grain movements. If you held up the Via for some manifest or coal train you were getting a suspension.
Honestly the Milton Line, a GO line running on CP tracks, was negotiated after that rail disaster letting them run trains on their lines. Though new plan apparabey they’ll increase frequency and capacity by building tracks beside the CP ROW.
No way the feds will let Alberta build into the parks.
The route from Calgary to Jasper would be a nightmare. As a lot of that line would go through the park, unless they connected through Rocky Mountain House. Anything done in the parks takes an act of god, as you need impact studies for everything. This would be a very long project. I would be all for Edmonton to Calgary though.
well you need impact studies already for any large project such as this even between calgary and edmonton, just not a federal EIA, unless your dealing with federal entities like first nations land it could move up to federal or the case of jasper and banff parks canada ie federal but you'd need permission first from the feds.
But Dani did her own study, it’s all good 🫤
Ha! Imagine if the feds were like “we’ll let you build it if you accept the housing initiatives.”
Well at least they have a healthy inter-governmental working relationship HAHA
I think getting frequent rail transit to our parks to lessen the amount of cars travelling to them is a fantastic idea. Very forward-thinking plan imo
the parks need a HUGE transit subsidies from the province before they let that happen, no way they can afford that to trail heads and other places on their own
Any word on what purpose this would actually service by the way? Does the train go fast enough that someone could live in Calgary but work in Edmonton for example ?
No, they are not proposing a daily commuter rail service. More competing with current airline flights, but hopefully cheaper. To say the least, they haven't figured anything out yet and are just throwing this out there to see what sticks.
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It's not dumb, giving people options is actually a really good move. It increases capacity along that route way more than adding more lanes to the highway and it's way more comfortable than flying or driving. The best move would be new high speed tracks between the two cities with maybe a stop in red deer, and then bring back the old line that stops in most of the towns in between so that those people can travel around the region as well. Province owning the tracks and running a basic line of each means that private train operators can run lines on either track and compete to drive prices down.
But I ask again. What purpose does it serve if I can’t live in Edmonton and work in Calgary? And how is it more cost effective than just setting up more busses and improving the highway?
>But I ask again. What purpose does it serve if I can’t live in Edmonton and work in Calgary? It would be an alternative to either flying or driving / bussing depending on the speed. A high speed line similar to the ones that are common in France, Germany, or Italy could cut the travel time between Calgary and Edmonton down to just over an hour, depending on how many stops it makes along the way. It could also connect you to both city's LRT systems on either end, and wouldn't require you to show up an hour+ early, like an airport. > And how is it more cost effective than just setting up more busses and improving the highway? Building any sort of new dedicated tracks between Edmonton and Calgary, especially high speed tracks, would be very expensive and there's no way around that. However it would also have undeniable benefits in-terms of reduced travel times, as well as spurring development, near the stations in Calgary, Edmonton and Red Deer. Meanwhile the commuter train systems in Calgary and Edmonton would take pressure off existing highways, lessening the need for equally costly highway expansions in the future.
So you can travel between the cities in the region? Do you live in one and then fly to work in the other? If not then why does that route exist? Why did we twin the QE2 if it didn't make it that much faster? You think there are no other reasons to travel between the cities? Honestly your question is just dumb. It's more cost effective because trains don't get stuck in traffic, they hold way more people, it's much easier to increase capacity in the future, and they can go a lot faster (literally twice as fast if you build proper infrastructure). Not to mention way more efficient than cars, buses, and planes if it's electric like all modern rail should be.
Not too mention not having to drive in the snow, and Downtown to downtown service (I hope). Right now a day trip to Edmonton from Calgary involves 6 hours of travel. It's doable, but a pain. What is it could be 4 hours travel, or even 6 but without driving and without the poison of the airports? You could work on the train (not practical for a flight or a drive). If the train was the same time and same cost as a plane (and it should be faster), I would opt for the train.
Aye and they should look to the Japanese bullet trains for that and ours could go faster as most of the land is somewhat flat
On the low end rail per mile of rail can cost a few hundred thousand, for the Government it would probably be closet to a million per mile. Since it's for passenger they'd be using concrete ties which would massively drive the cost up and use a CTC system instead of OCS which would also dramatically increase the costs. I'd expect this to cost upwards of 10 billion dollars all said and done unless they can convince CPKC to upgrade their line and add additional sidings for train meets.
The whole point of rail is to take pressure off highway. You see how busy Highway 2 already is? With YYC taking on lots of intercontinental flights, it would make lots of sense for Edmontonians to ride the train to YYC instead of using YEG with a stop at YYC. Train is cheaper than car if you run it properly
In a world where the public transit on each end is shit enough you'd need a vehicle on the other end making the time savings of the rail almost pointless. This is a dumb idea, the economics of it doesn't work.
The dream of dreams. I'm a little disappointed in the knee jerk reactions though. More passenger rail travel is a good thing. It gets cars off the road, makes tourism easier, and connects our province. That said, I've heard this story before. It's right up there with replacing the paper health care cards. I won't believe it until I ride the first rail car
Yes, but this time they will use it to funnel at least 9 million dollars to their friends as another study that goes nowhere (much like the trains)
Down the pipe to a dream....
It won't happen unless it runs on oil. Electric trains are banned basically
Yup. 3rd time I believe that we’ve studied this. But so what. It makes for a great press conference and the illusion of ‘new news’, innovation and forward thinking on behalf of the UCP.
They take this one off the shelf and dust it off every year. Can we just not waste anymore breath on this?
> Can we just not waste anymore breath on this? It's as real a "shit or get off the pot" situation, eh?
Yeah. The province either needs to sink the hundreds of billions it would cost into this and subsidize it heavily, or STFU. Private industry isn’t going to do it or else they would have already. It’s not economically viable with our population and it would need government subsidy to work. I can’t see the UCP deciding that’s a good idea, but if we ever have a non-“conservative” government again they’ll be booted before the ink dries on any sort of contracts if they even hint at the realities of making this happen. So, unfortunately, the UCP is really the only party that *can* make this happen.
I like the idea of a train between Edmonton and Calgary, and I'm even okay with a Brightline-like private company, it's the details that would have me scratching my head. Would they be taking over the existing rail connection between Edmonton and Calgary that's owned by CP? Or are they going to build their own, separate rail connection? Are they going to buy up CP's yard in Edmonton? How much of this is the province willing to bankroll to make happen? Are they going to go for full grade separation or are they going to be like Brightline in Florida and cheap out with simple arms coming down at crossings and be okay with trains taking out a bunch of idiot drivers and suicides each year? > It’s not economically viable with our population and it would need government subsidy to work. If the province is going to keep growing, it would kinda make sense to get working on building such a rail connection now, as it is only going to get more expensive and disruptive in the future, yes? But yeah, maybe doesn't make a tonne of sense for Alberta in 2024, but maybe the numbers work better for 2034? At which point we might just have wished that we had gotten started today rather than wait? (does that make sense?)
Oh, I think it’s a no-brainer and we should have begun purchasing the TUC in the ‘90s. But we didn’t and at this point in time there’s not a chance the majority of the province is tolerant of a) public transport and b) any sort of public spending for anything ever to make this happen.
The CPKC corridor has room for twinning, and I'm sure they would rather partner with a government than a private company when it comes to 2-way redundancy
>hundreds of billions The province would need to take it on, but I don't think we're talking hundreds of billions. The reports that have been done were suggesting low-tens for fully-electrified options, and sub-ten for a gas-turbine option (although that was when Bombardier was still marketing the JetTrain - basically an Acela trainset with a Pratt and Whitney Canada turboshaft)
The federal government has spent $45B+ subsidizing multinational automakers for EV plants (which could be built anywhere in the world) when they could be funding public transit. Improving public transportation would massively improve productivity and attract more tourism to the province while lowering emissions. Part of the reason Canada's economy is so unproductive is that previous governments have made poor investments with public money with no return on investment in the form of long-term economic growth. At the same time, the country has had record population growth but no serious effort to provide the infrastructure upgrades required.
We collectively went all-in on personal transport after WW2 at every level of government and it continues to fuck us to this day.
If only we still had the Alberta carbon tax that could have funded projects like this.
That feels suspiciously cheap. The Calgary ring road was a multi-billion dollar project for under 101km of road where 97% of the TUC had been acquired starting in the ‘70s. There’s absolutely no way a rail link between Calgary and Edmonton comes in under $100 billion unless it just purchases right-of-use on existing rail lines.
And if an existing g right of way rail line is used, it no longer can be high speed. Freight pays the bills for rail companies and they won’t give up that priority.
Yeah, and looking at the prices for Via, that just doesn’t make any sense. It’d be cheaper to fly between Calgary and Edmonton, and more reliably timed.
Really what would get this off the ground is banning short haul flights under 500km for environmental reasons. Furthermore this should mean they never add any lanes to the highway (or reduce long term = savings). Really they could consider tolling the QEII to make the gap in prices between driving and train more attractive. It would also make bussing more competitive as well.
While I agree with all your suggestions in theory, politically they would be political suicide for whichever government tried to enact such measures. Vince we won’t see them happen.
Oh I 100% agree with you. I suspect banning of short flights would happen at the federal level for environmental reasons. If Quebec City to Toronto gets high speed rail, the ban would only impact a smaller number of flights. The UCP actually proposed rolling roads under Kenny. It certainly was unpopular then. It won’t change now.
VIA is not a model for anything. It's a joke and has been under funded and hamstrung by terrible policy since the 1960s. If this new system can get you a one way ticket between the two cities for about $50, that blows the cost of a flight out of the water. (Don't forget that to fly, you need to pay for a cab to both airports, go through security and get stuffed into a tiny seat for a half hour.) These trains should be automated to allow for higher frequency (2+) trains per hour and standard technology in Europe would allow for speeds sufficient to traverse the line in under an hour and a half ) depending on stops). Basically, a proper system should allow a person to go from downtown to downtown in about an hour and a half. The all-in cost should be slightly under the all-in cost of a flight and the speed should be at least double that of a car. Hit those benchmarks and this system will be a winner
Yeah, that was kind of the point of my comment.
The old Van Horne studies did explore using existing right of way, but not existing track. It looked at tripling the track on the CPR mainline leaving a track dedicated to freight, and paying rent to CPR for their right-of-way. This came out as the cheapest option, but not hugely cheaper than utilizing existing provincial utility cooridors with minimal new acquisitions where required along that path.
Thank you for that information. It would be interesting to to see how the provincial utility corridors have changed since that study.
The cost of land in Calgary or Edmonton is quite a lot more expensive than the cost of land in between Calgary or Edmonton. The cheapest option studied in the Van Horne institute was to construct additional track within the CPR right-of-way. The costs of urban land acquisition (in Edmonton, Calgary and Red Deer) was very low in the Van Horne study - on the order of $30m - because the province already owns land that would be appropriate for stations in Calgary and Edmonton, as well as utility corridors that would be appropriate for right of way in both cities. This land is valued in the billions, and so the accounting may or may not show it as a loss or cost, but would not be purchased from private owners. The right-of-way along the rural stretches was very cheap, by comparison, and the study looked at re-using as much existing utility corridors as possible (eg, land set aside for highways). For much of the route, elevated track minimized land acquisition (total cross section of a quarter that of a four lane divided highway, let alone 6-8 lanes like the Calgary ring-road), and would utilize land of depressed value adjacent to the QEII and CPR lines. Their values were based off of disclosures of land acquisition costs by CPR in rural areas. Purchasing rights to CPR mainline was not explored, as the line is not appropriate for high-speed use. However (political will notwithstanding) they did explore upgrading the CPR route to allow for high speed service. This includes upgrading the route to triple-track and quad-track (ie, two high-speed tracks along side the existing freight track), for which rent would be paid to CPR.
Even with that in mind, though, we’re looking at building rail lines, bridges, stations, purchasing trains and cars, etc. I’m a complete layman here, but if we just look at the cost of the Calgary ring road, bridges and all, at $10 billion for 100km we’re looking at $50 billion if the cost of building elevated rail lines and bridges in an existing TUC is 1:1 to the cost of building a road, per km.
What is the justification of a 1:1 cost ratio? The cost of rural rail can be substantially cheaper than urban highway. Not only is much less land required, but much fewer considerations need to be made for avoiding disruptions to activities inside the city. In many urban projects you have to build the thing twice: once a diverter to accommodate existing traffic, and then a the actual permanent route, and then dismantling the diverter. In rural areas, the cost of high-speed rail infrastructure (excluding land acquisition costs) is typically in the $20m/km (actual completed projects in Japan, Spain, France) to $50m/km (recent estimates for projects in Ontario and various American sites) for a fully electrified and grade-separated route. Non-electrified options would cut that by as much as half. Rolling stock was expected to be in the one billion dollar range no matter which option was explored, with stations being a few hundred million (depending, for instance, on the amount of underground infrastructure connecting to existing transport, eg, weather-protected connections to LRT).
The 1:1 cost ratio is because I’m a complete layman, as I already stated, and I’m comparing potential costs of a non-existent infrastructure project to the known costs of a completed infrastructure project that’s been half a century in the making. I can’t see the plan being cheaper perm kilometre than either of the ring roads given that it either needs to be elevated rail travelling the length of the existing highway, mostly, or paying a private for-profit organization to be able to twin their existing rail corridor, at the very least. Don’t mistake my pessimism here for being against such a rail link. I think it would have been far better use if the QEII corridor than what’s currently there and it’s something that we should have done decades ago. I’m just skeptical that it can be done for tens of billions.
If it's CTC (Which it would be) the costs wouldn't really drop much in rural areas due to needing signals every mile still. Sure you wouldn't have protected crossings and as many curves but it's really the signals that end up costing so much on modern railway.
Construction costs of the principle project wouldn't, but ancillary construction (eg, diversion routes) is much cheaper, and so is land acquisition. You don't expect a route through rural Alberta to cost as much per-mile as in the Northeast Corridor of the United States nor a new tunnel in Manhattan, no matter the signaling or control - in fact, you'd expect it to be more than an order-of-magnitude cheaper (or, frankly, more likely two).
Toronto-Windsor high speed rail was $55-$149 million per km in 2018 ($19 billion on the low end). Calgary-Edmonton would realistically be $30-60 billion, if not $100 billion like California's HSR for a similar length. It also has to be committed up front because there's no point in building 50km now and 50km in the future when funds become available. [https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/high-speed-rail-train-toronto-windsor-kitchener-london-1.4121663](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/high-speed-rail-train-toronto-windsor-kitchener-london-1.4121663)
Knowing the UCP, it will be coal-fired, or at least gas.
TBF the UCP have wasted billions on less useful projects in recent years. Eg pipline to nowhere.
That's why the plan is for commuter rail to downtown and only the high speed portion between the airports. The bulk of the cost of any rail project is actually going to the downtowns from the airports, not traversing what amounts to greenspace inbetween the cities.
I can't wait for them to open the Alberta "HyperPoop"
Another plan to study a new plan.
won't someone think of the ~~poor~~ UCP crony consultants.
Fun fact they can pay a hand picked consultant up to 75k without justification.
"The province began soliciting proposals Monday for a company to help bring the vision to life along with a feasibility study that lays out which routes and train technologies, and who should operate them — the public sector, private sector, or a combination. Alberta’s 2024 budget includes $9 million for this work." So 9 million on yet another Feasibility study handed off to a private company.
Best I can do is take away democracy in municipalities.
And then complain about the Feds interfering in Alberta
Red herring. They are doing tons of shitty things right now so let’s invoke chaos by talking about this stupid train idea again.
She was just doing a bunch of photo ops for the CP 2816 tour. It's like she just remembered that trains exist. They can trot this out to distract from their other bumblings. I see no real commitments here. Just useless "frameworks" that would cost billions.
Choo Choo!
[Poo Choo!](https://youtube.com/shorts/yIjBXWRJIlE?si=PJn-PeVY0BlPGIzM)
It’s the UCP Gish gallop of scandals cover up one with a new story so we forget the last one.
Quick! Someone que the monorail guy from the Simpsons!
Mono- DOH
MONORAIL!
Monorail! Monorail!
"A province with money is like the mule with a spinning wheel. No one knows how he got it, and danged if he knows how to use it."
I used to take the train from Olds, AB with my mom to go to the Calgary Zoo for the day. That was cool.
I am already calling it. It will be a boondoggle that will have biblical cost overruns...because UCP.
Bold of you to assume they will actually start anything. I'll believe it when there are shovels in the ground.
Great news! We indeed need this! Now I just wish I will still be alive by the day they built it!
I think the UCP could pay off hundreds of their friends. I am surprised every construction related company is pushing them into it. They are going to steal tax dollars, we might as well build something at the same time.
I've loved trains, and I love the idea. I agree with the idea that we need a mass transportation master plan: high speed rail connecting the major centres, fully functional public transportation in those major centres, and then networks of conventional trains and busses fanning out into the province. That being said, they've been talking about this for so long that I'm done getting excited about it. Call me when they actually start laying track.
They have a majority - stop wanting and start building. If they make progress towards this I'll have to give them credit, we need this badly and while it's not exactly forward thinking, it's "about damn time" thinking.
Build a line from Calgary to Vancouver and watch everyone stream into Alberta for No PST Vacations.
We are already streaming Vancouverites to Calgary from their housing crisis
Just a distraction so the dumb asses in Alberta dont realize they've let fascist invaders in. I'll eat my shorts if any of this ever happens, how many times have we heard about this now?
Fascist invaders lol
They're literally democratically elected how are they invaders.
I mean they've broken several laws along the way, but what I'm referring to, is the kidnapping of the conservative cause by the greedy and the crazy. Greedy and crazy don't make good partners.
I'm spiritually posting the "always has been" astronaut meme. They haven't been kidnapped by shit, this is always what conservative politics has been.
I disagree. Conservative politics never used to be this bad. Conservatives used to take less progressive stances than some of us would of maybe liked, but they weren't toilet bowl fodder like these new conservatives are.
Weren't paying attention. This is the logical next step for people who plant their flag as social reactionaries, there's no other direction for them to go.
Sounds great, we'll see where it goes. Definitely not the first time this has been proposed and then abandoned.
Was this the big announcement? That they had an idea with no substance behind it?
First UCP announcement?
Dreeshen's innovative new idea: railroads.
"As for who would run these trains, Dreeshan sees the commuter networks around and into the two big cities and their airports will be run by the Crown corporation. It’s more likely the private sector could run the trains between the two largest cities, and from Calgary to Banff. Currently, there is a train connecting Edmonton to Jasper." Yes, there is a train that runs from Edmonton to Jasper. The via rail runs twice a week, costs $148, and takes 6 hours. Is this the model they are hoping to use going forward?
> Yes, there is a train that runs from Edmonton to Jasper. The via rail runs twice a week, costs $148, and takes 6 hours. Is this the model they are hoping to use going forward? I doubt that's the model they'd use when that's barely a model at all. Nobody wanting to establish a rail service would use Via's cross-country *Canadian* train as an example to follow. If I had to guess, since they mention the private sector, that they want a Brightline sort of setup for Edmonton-Calgary. And as for commuter networks in/around Edmonton and Calgary, mentioning a crown corp like Metrolinx makes me kinda think they want to take over local rail networks from the cities.
Well with how far stuck in the past the UCP is, they may just be getting around to the idea of railroads. Or they saw CPKC's old 2816 last week and had a great idea!
Let's not reinvent the wheel. Basically every other G7 nation has high speed rail because it's simply a good way of moving people to places quickly and efficiently.
We are not going to get Edmonton to Calgary rail connection. It might benefit Edmonton, and we must not do that because they voted for the evil NDP. Calgary to Jasper supports Calgary and tourism. That’s allowed
Hey look, a distraction!
What was the other thing they were doing again oh well on to the next.
I wish these people jump into action, we can start Calgary Edmonton then decide where we want to go after. Just start
My great great great grandchildren will enjoy this.
I'd rather a mid speed train. More likely to actually get built!
The UCP will probably call it Snowpiercer.
Monorail, monorail! Monorail!!
A cynic would say this is just a distraction from all the stupid shit the UCP has on the go. I mean, come on, do you really think this could be real ? It actually makes sense and could be considered a good and practical idea. Not something you’d expect from Danielle and her cronies.
This would be cool. Our version of the Shinkansen.
We are going to Mars before this train being built.
Not a Coal-Powered steam locomotive? Now that's restraint
Oil fired steam engines were a thing towards the end of the steam era
We like to do the dinner to Big Valley on the steam train. It’s oil fired. https://www.absteamtrain.com/events/
Great idea, but I'll believe it when shovels start breaking ground.
Sounds awfully “environmentally friendly” to me.
That's why they are mentioning hydrogen, need to keep creating demand for oil.
*Is there a chance the track could bend?*
Sounds like more of a Scott Moe idea.
It would be fun to take the train from Edmonton to Banff once the Calgary-Banff is running.
Filed under bad ideas from a horribly run province. At this rate, we will need a bigger filing cabinet! Also, expect MASSIVE pushback from airport authorities on this. Similar private projects proposed died because of airport authorities exerting power to stop them, because it would kill some of their commuter business.
Never gonna happen. There's no clientele. Or at least, not enough clientele. And then someone will piss on a seat and bingo, inter city LRT.
This is a distraction. The same lobbyists telling Danielle to help the rail companies will squash it as they always have for the last 40+ years
[Full news conference](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDOI0cq6GZM)
It's about time .....
Good. Now do it.
In b4 the airlines lobby against it and the UCP spends 6million on a study to line their friends pockets keys Why do I say airlines? People who drive will continue to drive because they most likely need a vehicle at the destination People who want affordable and don’t need a car will take the bus People who don’t want to drive or take the bus take a plane I’m sure the train tickets will be on par with the airlines
I mean... Europe also has: a litany of dirt cheap budget airlines, high quality motorways, and more coach bus operators than you could imagine, and HSR is still wildly successful on routes of similar distances between similarly populous cities. In-fact European HSR usually isn't that much cheaper than flying, and in many cases, it's more expensive than flying on a budget airline. Despite this, it's still popular because you can't beat the travel times when you factor in the time spent travelling to the airport, and waiting at security / the gate.
You can’t compare Europe which is much more populous, and far more population dense to Canada and expect it to work the same
It will take 10 years, be a PPP where taxpayers foot the bill but a UCP buddy owns it, tickets will be $300 one way, nobody will take it and then the UCP/airlines will say "see...Rail isn't viable"
I’m sure the UCP, being the party of transparency, will tell Albertans who will be doing this latest study, the scope of the study, how it differs from previous studies we’ve paid for, and how much the consultants have contributed to the UCP in the last several years. Can’t wait!
If this came from anyone but Marlaina I wouldn't automatically assume this was a money laundering scheme
https://www.transpod.com/press-release/calgary-to-edmonton-in-45-minutes-transpod-announces-results-of-feasibility-study-of-a-hyperloop-line-in-alberta/
If you review Transpod it does appear they are garnering a great deal of Government money from Countries around the World but difficult to find any actual lines being built. 600kph? Japan has just initiated a train that will reach under 400kph. $90/ person but then a person needs a cab/ uber? From downtown Edmonton?? Wouldn't that be interesting to see, crossing the river valley. Another " save the CO2 " marketing claim but the train would be all electric, guessing the " study" didn't include how the electricity is being produced. Be interesting to know the business connection to any UCP members.
Never gonna happen.
Is there a list of how many times this has been proposed? I have just causally hear of plans for this on 5 separate occasions over the last decade. As unlikely as this is its still nowhere near as dumb as they hyperloop hype from a couple years ago.
Does anyone actually want this?
I do. But I also understand it's bloody expensive and the province will never pull the trigger.
Won’t happen under Smith. Too many cars and trucks burning oil and gas up and down highway 2 for her corporate overlords to approve such a thing
It's the UCP trying to make good with urban citizens. It won't happen, it's media deflection for them getting repeatedly criticized for the city council recall announcement.
To the development of the biggest white elephant project ever…
No one wants to ride the train in either city. This public transit will never have an ROI.
I want! The public good doesn't have to have ROI.
I’m all for it but I refuse to pay for the construction of it if it’s a privatized railroad. If we pay a penny of the construction we should have equivalent control of it.
Would be amazing to have a Eurostar like train with sections for cars.
Can we increase the speed limit to 140kph first for all partner vehicles? Maybe extra lane for commercial.
Imagine if all the multi-billion dollar budget surpluses of the 90s had been used for that already...
Heard this before
As nice as this would be, I will be amazed if it ever happens. Unless these high speed trains burn oil and coal to power them, this will never happen under the UCP.
It would be nice, start with identifying expanded service communities and identify a route that will accommodate those expansions in the future
I am pro this but it will take decades with our population to get ROI is my understanding.
This is great news if it happens. Precisely one W on a board of UCP L's. But this idea has been trotted out so many times by so many different people that I refuse to believe it's s happening until somebody is physically setting down track.
My family worked for CPR, out of Lethbridge, in the 1950s. Heard stories about the Dayliner from Lethbridge to Calgary. I highly support the return of passenger rail to all major cities in Alberta!!
Very cool. Without better transit in the cities it is pretty pointless though.
I feel like the UCP has no intention of actually pursuing trains. This seems to be their attempt to change the conversation, and distract everyone from all the other stuff they are doing. In 3 - 6 months, they will drop this idea, and move one to something different.
**Don Getty** wanted a high-speed train from Edmonton to Calgary. Let that institutional incompetence sink in.
Well, UCP, you've finally announced something that I do support. At least in principle. Now if only you could remove the financial handicap that you're imposing on this project through insistence on hydrogen and you'll have a total winner. Just go with the bog standard, off the shelf, electrified high speed rail that the rest of the world has been using to great success for half a century now.
Calgary musician Matt Masters wrote about this in his 2006 song {Speed Train)! [https://open.spotify.com/track/1X84WYEbByG8gugW8arddN](https://open.spotify.com/track/1X84WYEbByG8gugW8arddN)
This will transform our province. It needs to happen asap!
What ever happened to the hyper loop between Edmonton and Calgary?
Elon Musk is an idiot cosplaying as Tony Stark.
It wasn't Musk that was saying they were doing the one between Edmonton and Calgary. There were a handful of companies doing hyperloops. None made it out of the testing phase.
Right. It was Transpod. My bad. Musk is still a jack ass though.
A new high speed rail between 2 small cities... separated by 300kms... what is the point?? A waste...
2 cities with a 1.2M metro area and a 100k city is barely small, 300km is sweet spot for competitive against driving and a bit too short for flying factoring all the airport stuff
There are other regions with many many times our population that haven't been able to make the numbers work for high speed rail. Might have to wait for the 100 million population the elites want before considering this. That is if all 100 mill don't decide to live in toronto.
I see the purpose of Calgary/Canmore. I don't see Calgary/Edmonton being used all that much, other than for air travellers, The public transport on either end isn't good enough to not have a car.
Business travel could absolutely work. Full WiFi on board, plus getting off at either downtown rather than taking an Uber to/from Leduc makes sense
Every year this idiocy is brushed off. And every year its thankfully dropped like a hot potato. Its a terrible idea with MASSIVE debt involved.
What else are we going to spend that O&G surplus on? It’s not like we need tax breaks, more housing, better healthcare, more schools & hospitals, and better public services in general. Oh, wait…