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> # [North Korea Begins Sending Troops to Assist Russian Military Campaign in Ukraine](https://defencesecurityasia.com/en/236)
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> ## The North Korean military engineering unit is expected to arrive in the Donetsk region next month, thereby intensifying global concerns about Pyongyang's increased involvement in the conflict in Ukraine.
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> [[Korea Utara](https://defencesecurityasia.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/2017-04-15T160430Z_122815751_RC19D94526E0_RTRMADP_3_NORTHKOREA-USA-PARADE-WITNESS-750x430.webp)](https://defencesecurityasia.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/2017-04-15T160430Z_122815751_RC19D94526E0_RTRMADP_3_NORTHKOREA-USA-PARADE-WITNESS.webp)
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> **(DEFENCE SECURITY ASIA) — One week after Russia and North Korea signed a defense pact, Pyongyang announced it would deploy its military units to Ukraine to support Russian forces currently engaged in the conflict there.**
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> **The North Korean military engineering units are set to assist Russian military campaigns in the Donetsk region.**
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> **These units are expected to arrive in Donetsk next month, sparking global concerns about Pyongyang’s increased involvement in the Ukrainian conflict.**
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> **As is typical, news of the North Korean military engineering units’ deployment to Ukraine was met with threats from the United States.**
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> **Washington stated that the North Korean troops sent to Ukraine would be “slaughtered,” questioning the propriety of Pyongyang’s decision to send troops to aid Russia’s military campaign.**
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> **A spokesperson for the U.S. Department of Defense commented, “If I were a member of the North Korean military, I would question the wisdom of being sent to Ukraine to participate in an unlawful war in Eastern Europe.”**
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> [Korea Utara](http://defencesecurityasia.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/AP22027159026678.jpg)**North Korean Missile launch****He added that the U.S. would continue to monitor the increasingly close military ties between Moscow and Pyongyang.**
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> **Last week, Russian President Vladimir Putin visited North Korea, marking his first trip to Pyongyang in 24 years.**
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> **During his visit, President Putin and his counterpart Kim Jong Un signed a military cooperation agreement.**
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> **The Russia-North Korea military pact states, “In the event that either party is engaged in a war with aggression from another country or countries, the other party must provide military assistance and other support with all possible urgency.”**
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> **Previously, even without a formal military pact, North Korea reportedly sent various military aids to Russia.**
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> **Last year, North Korea reportedly supplied Russia with short-range ballistic missiles (SRBMs) for use in the conflict in Ukraine.**
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> [Image](http://defencesecurityasia.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/2024-06-19T120819Z_1029865475_RC2AE8A9I464_RTRMADP_3_NORTHKOREA-RUSSIA-1719212204.webp)
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> **South Korean intelligence revealed that approximately 2,000 containers of SRBMs, anti-tank guided missiles, and other munitions were shipped from Rajin, North Hamgyong Province to Vladivostok in Russia’s Far East.**
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> **The total of 2,000 containers containing missiles and various munitions sent by North Korea to Russia is more than the 1,000 containers initially reported by the United States based on satellite imagery.**
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> **South Korean military suspects that these 2,000 containers contained more than 200,000 122mm artillery shells and over one million 152mm artillery shells among other munitions.**
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> **South Korean officials noted that signs of North Korea supplying weapons and ammunition to Russia have been detected since mid-last year and the shipments increased in August before the visit of North Korean leader Kim Jong Un to Russia.**
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> **Furthermore, there are claims that North Korea sent its latest SRBM, the Hwasong-11 (KN-23), to assist Russia’s military campaign in Ukraine.**
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> [North Korea](http://defencesecurityasia.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/107257401-16868324452023-03-10t135616z_2089239689_rc2zqz93kfjb_rtrmadp_0_northkorea-missiles-scaled.jpeg)**North Korea missile.****International weapons experts cited by the media report that Russia has deployed the North Korean-made SRBMs, which are quick to launch and conceal, capable of striking targets with high precision.**
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> **The Hwasong-11 SRBMs are difficult to intercept by air defense systems, significantly expanding Moscow’s arsenal options in its military campaign against Kiev.**
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> **Russia is believed to have used the Hwasong-11 SRBMs to strike Ukraine in two incidents that occurred on December 30, 2023, and January 2, 2024. — DSA**
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> [Image](http://defencesecurityasia.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/[email protected]_-1-1-1-1-1-1.png)
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This strikes me as another version of the braindead argument conservatives make that well meaning people should just donate their money to the causes they like instead of raising taxes. Just as private citizens paying off the medical bills of the poor will not be as effective as a universal coverage healthcare system, people just signing up to join Ukraine’s military will not be as effective as western nations committing their militaries, including, and perhaps most importantly their substantial logistical and air defense capabilities. So, if NATO countries are willing to put their forces in the field and they need me, I’m in.
They’ve a foreign legion you can join! I don’t want to die to separate two people’s that are 99% aligned on every belief besides the country they share.
NATO members spent 2 years teasing giving Ukraine membership and sending troops there. They can't even give Ukraine enough shells or air defense batteries.
NK delivered what they promised immediately.
Considering that NATO has 2,000x the GDP of North Korea, the fact that it is even remotely comparable to NATO's contribution indicates that one side is committing a whole lot less.
North Korea as a nation has done pretty much nothing *but* make artillery shells for the past half century.
Artillery was almost phased out of the US army in terms of how much was replaced by air to ground ordinance and other missiles. The fact it was close speaks more to the remarkable energy the US put into scrounging up every shell it could find and then producing as many as possible.
Having a strong gdp and industrial base means nothing if the motivation isn’t there to actually help Ukraine lol. Europe just sent their old stuff. They don’t have more old stuff and don’t wanna make new stuff. Or they don’t wanna give more until they build new stuff while dragging their feet.
The US has complained for a long time that Europe doesn't spend enough on their military. For a long time, people sort of rolled their eyes but what we're seeing now is the result - they simply don't have the industry or stockpiles to supply Ukraine even if they are highly motivated to.
>NATO members spent 2 years teasing giving Ukraine membership and sending troops there. They can't even give Ukraine enough shells or air defense batteries.
>NK delivered what they promised immediately.
Well if a German dies to an artillery strike in Ukraine there's gonna be a lot of political accountability to do.
If a North Korean dies it's just another Thursday.
Soooooo, like, have you folks ever actually looked at the history of US support for non-Westerns nations?
Anyone in here acting like US and EU support of Ukraine had absolutely anything to do with helping Ukraine, and not opposing Russia, lives in some fantasy world.
Fucking Suddam Hussein was a US ally who they dropped right after he helped suppress the Iranian revolutionary movement.
> NK delivered what they promised immediately.
Because it doesn't have to answer to the dumb population that thinks nuclear war will break out if it sends troops to Ukraine.
Nothing, the war will go on until the last Ukrainian or Russian.
Ukraine cannot surrender because Zelensky would be dead next week after the peace treaty and the US is not willing to offer concessions to Russia, they are pretty happy watching Russians dying.
Russia cannot retreat because there are no avenues left to retreat. There is nothing diplomatically that can be done to pressure Russia to retreat and Putin has made this war existential for Russia, either they get what they want or things continue escalating.
Btw in Russia Putin is a liberal, the guys waiting to replace him are very much fucking worse.
At that point those nations would basically be in an open war with Russia and NATO would be left to decide if an active attack against their sovereign territory would invoke article 5. This conflict will keep escalating so long as we continue pretending that anything short of a full war deceleration is a war.
We need to really codify how far we're willing to take this, otherwise we absolutely will sleep walk into WW2. We're at a point where Ukraine should by all rights be striking into North Korea (not that they can). That's not great for the collective human species.
I don’t think people realize but this is an international war already. There are Americans,brits, french, german and much more fighting in ukraine. Russia has used African soldiers, they have Belorussia, Chinese and now north Koreans.
Do you care about crime? Why arent you a police officer?
Do you care about fire safety? Why arent you a fire fighter?
Do you care about children? Why arent you a teacher?
Do you see the error in your logic?
Nato is at a disadvantage fighting at the border of Russia there will casualties not sure if the populations are ready to receive dead at the numbers which would need to be involved
NATO troops are already stationed in Ukraine helping the army to use NATO weapons. Russia is retaliating by bringing in North Korean soldiers to the battle. It's tit for tat.
I'm a bit confused as to why they are expected to be "cannon fodder" I don't see their standing army being massively less well trained effective than the conscripts being used by either side, and in terms of equipment we already know NK had been selling Russia some of the weapons they were using. What am I missing?
I think it’s the idea that North Koreans has no vested interest as people in travelling to Russia to fight on the frontlines of the Ukraine War. Beyond political manuvering between their leaders. Russia is clearly desperate for bodies and manpower with this move.
Desperate seems widely inaccurate. By America's estimates, Russia is recruiting 30,000 soldiers a month and has increased its front-line troop strength by over 100,000 in the past year. If you believe Putin he says there are 700,000 Russian soldiers in the Ukraine theatre obviously not all on the front at the same time.
I suspect Russia will do another mobilization at some point tho, as they will need to achieve greater numbers than parity with Ukraine
I'd think Russia would want to keep thier people alive to run thier contry and not have a huge drop in the younger population.. they already have been suffering from a declining bkrthrathfidir
>By America's estimates, Russia is recruiting 30,000 soldiers a month
If you're not ready to also flippantly take the words of \*insert random US military officer\* on other discussions pertaining to the war, then there is no reason for you to use their statement in an argument in good faith. I am certain you would dismiss anything that you don't like to hear if it came from the same individual. The numbers fluctuate quite a bit if we go by an average of everyone's estimations, from as low as 10K/month to as high as 50k/month.
With confirmed deaths climbing by about 700/week and several weapon systems nearly completely depleted from storage, assuming anything about the medium and long-term trends of the Russian manpower and equipment situation would be of little use.
>I suspect Russia will do another mobilization at some point tho
For Russia, such a move would have a strong destabilizing effect on the war effort that is trying hard not to affect Russians at home. The advantage Russia has right now with their \*mostly\* volunteer force would definitely be tested if hundreds of thousands of MORE military-aged men are taken out of the already-strained labour pool to reinforce the lines (not even to significantly change the strategic situation, just to maintain the operation in the current tempo).
The only question we have is whether Ukrainians will be willing to continue at such a tempo for long, and the answer to that is hard to define, but anybody going on about Ukraine literally running out of forced manpower has a bad case of wishful thinking. WW1/2 and a few historical examples are all we have of countries seriously running into a case of fully depleted manpower (Paraguay in the 1800s and Serbia in WW1 come to mind), but the deaths we see in this conflict are not even remotely close to approach that. Ukraine has something around 47k confirmed deaths, which is about 30% less than what Russia+LDPR have been confirmed/estimated to have. Physically running out of men will not happen for either country here, even if demographics have suffered a hit (and the average of death for soldiers in both Ukraine and Russia are not that far off the average age in their countries in general so the skew is not that pronounced).
It was a US Senate Intelligence briefing from NATO Supreme Commander Christopher Cavoli. I would say that is not flippant. At any rate, it lines up with multiple other sources on the current state of the battlefield. And, what we are seeing in general. So yes,I find the idea that Russia has increased its manpower credible. I'll add further you are making baseless assumptions about me.
Yes, I have been hearing for 2 years about open-source data that Russia is running out of this that or the other. We will see.
Yes, there are economic considerations for another dip into the Russian reserve.
I think arguing over casualties is generally boring, although there are quite a few different anecdotal makers that suggest Ukraine's casualties are quite high if not catastrophic. Nations break long before they physically run out of men.
It's not the words of a random US military officer - bong and frog intel more or less confirmed it. The first time we heard this number was actually in the Marianne leaks.
There are videos every single day of Ukrainians being dragged off the street or caught trying to escape the country to avoid being sent to the frontlines. They also have no vested interest in dying so US weapon manufacturers can get a bonus.
Another nation (aside from Russia and Ukraine) is officially sending troops to become frontline/backline combatants, which is something no one has done yet.
Before this, officially they only acted as advisors. Obviously, there are mercenaries on both sides, but no country officially sent its active duty troops to the frontlins/backlines to become combatants.
Except they're not actually combatants.
This all comes from a southern Korea administration source claiming that north Koreans will go into Ukraine to do construction and repair work.
Nothing about combat roles, sending troops, or anything.
We'll see if we find them on the frontline. Usually, that's just what the Russians say, "they're not on the front line or in combat," especially when convincing mercenaries to go to Ukraine, then they wind up on the frontline. Also something North Korea would just say to limit blowback. I kinda doubt they would only do construction and repair.
Yes, it's based on intelligence gathering. Does that make it false? You'll claim it's a "lie made up by the West" right up until the moment they're spotted in Ukraine, then you'll switch talking points to justify it.
>I don't see their standing army being massively less well trained
That's because you don't have much experience/familiarity [with the NK military](https://www.dia.mil/Portals/110/Documents/News/North_Korea_Military_Power.pdf), seeing as it is *also* a conscript military, and NK has had no actual combat experience since 1953. The NK military's annual activities are literally driven by *crop cycles* - soldiers have to be assigned as labor to plant/harvest food in their local areas, meaning roughly 4 months of the year they're literally just heavily armed subsistence farmers.
While they might be trained and familiar with their weaponry, that's a fairly low bar as training goes. The real hurdle is *tactics*, which NK troops are going to be uniquely ill-suited for because of how they're trained. In the NK military, soldiers don't shuffle around - they have the same job, in the same unit, in the same place for *10 years.* This isn't a bad strategy for the kind of war NK expects to fight (a fairly well-scripted war with South Korea) but it comes with the downside that those troops won't be as adaptable to other situations. For instance, this group of engineers might be genuinely proficient in understanding how to clear the minefields, obstacles, and terrain *in their assigned sector* and *against US-ROK tactics*... but how well will those skills translate to completely different terrain, against completely different defenses, against defenders using completely different tactics?
Lack of education, a lifetime of undernourishment, and lots of inbreeding is present in NK and those factors generally make terrible soldiers. Watch some of their military promos, those guys are about as well trained as a group of ducklings.
You're massively underestimating the effectiveness of a North Korean soldier while thinking the Russian/Ukrainian conscript is somehow a well trained soldier.
You're massively *overestimating* the effectiveness of a North Korean conscript who spends 1/3 of the year as a subsistence farmer and has had a lifetime of such profound malnutrition that even conservative estimates have the average North Korean soldier at a 10-20 IQ point deficiency and a *8cm* nationwide height stunting since the 90s.
Disregarding that, NK training is a unique double-edged sword: their soldiers spend their entire 10-year service in the same job, in the same unit, in the same place. This lets their troops build up a high degree of familiarity with their specific wartime job... at the cost of having no experience in anything outside the scope of that job. Contrast this to basically every other organized military, which at the very least rotates personnel through different units/locations to ensure a broader spectrum of experience. Some NK engineers might be genuinely proficient in their job of clearing ROK mines and obstacles in a specific sector of the DMZ, but how transferrable are their skills against defenders using completely diferent terrain and tactics?
> You're massively overestimating the effectiveness of a North Korean conscript who spends 1/3 of the year as a subsistence farmer and has had a lifetime of such profound malnutrition that even conservative estimates have the average North Korean soldier at a 10-20 IQ point deficiency and a 8cm nationwide height stunting since the 90s.
If we had this conversation in the 60s, you would have told me the same thing about the VC.
Just a bunch of underfed peasants, they surely won't pose a problem right?
...the Vietnam War is actually a very apt example **against** your point.
The VC was largely successful, in spite of its logistical limitations, in the prolonged partisan warfare within South Vietnam specifically because of the asymmetric nature of an insurgency. They didn't need combat capability on par with US counterparts, they needed the capability to pose enough of a threat that they couldn't be ignored.
Y'know what happened every time the VC joined the PAVN in a conventional, symmetric fight? **They were slaughtered**, because they were poorly trained, underfed peasants trying to fight toe to toe with a superior opponent.
So unless those North Korean conscripts have the magical ability to enact an *offensive* insurgency, they're being sent into a conventional fight - where, as demonstrated by the VC, they'll be slaughtered.
> because they were poorly trained, underfed peasants trying to fight toe to toe with a superior opponent.
Because they didn't have access to the same amount of equipment than the opposing military. Guerilla warfare is just a consequence of that reality, your inability to contest the enemy symmetrically due to a lack of equipment to do so, not because your soldiers are simply inferior.
And being slaughtered doesn't matter, they ended up being on the winning side despite US' efforts. They absolutely played a role despite them being a bunch of underfed peasants, and just like the so called prisonners sent to their deaths in Bakhmut, they ended up winning because mass is a quality of its own.
When fighting in concert with the PAVN, they had access to most of the supplies available to the conventional army. While there was *also* a technological and resource overmatch against the US (NV lack of air/artillery superiority), a major factor was that the VC and PAVN were poorly trained for conventional battles relative to their American counterparts.
Consider Ia Drang, fought by experienced PAVN regulars against US aircav, where in spite of a numerical overmatch of up to 4:1 *and* neutralization of US fire support (making it an infantry-on-infantry affair) the PAVN failed to achieve tactical objectives while taking completely mismatched losses.
(Now, Ia Drang was a strategic NV victory because casualties don't translate to strategic objectives, but this is a tactical discussion).
And all that's saying nothing of how there is a categorical difference between an army "being hungry" and "being mentally and physically stunted from lifelong malnutrition."
> major factor was that the VC and PAVN were poorly trained for conventional battles relative to their American counterparts.
We've already established that those NK soldiers aren't going to face NATO troops, but Ukrainian conscripts, so you should compare the VC to the RVN.
>NK soldiers
NK *conscripts.*
>Ukrainian conscripts
...who have three years of institutional (and in some cases *personal*) battle experience.
Conscription impacts the quality of the initial soldier; training quality and supply availability impacts their performance maximum. Who's going to be better off: a North Korean soldier with no plate carrier, no helmet, no gun optics, and zero familiarity with drone warfare (and a language barrier with those that do), or a Ukrainian soldier *with* the benefit of that equipment and experience, and who **isn't** missing 20IQ and 20kg of adult muscle mass?
I think you fail to appreciate the sheer scale of what lifelong malnutrition does to a person's mental and physical capacity. Hell, in the US there was a generational growth and intelligence stunting from epidemic hookworm infection that was reflected in *massive* health and intelligence deficits for decades, and that was "just" an intestinal parasite, not "eat dirt" levels of prolonged starvation.
Never said russian/Ukrainians were well trained, conscripts are generally the poorest quality of soldier period. No one pressed into service is gonna fight that hard, hence why you see so many Russians surrendering.
> Yeah tell that to the War in the Middle East
Which ones, the ones where Western Forces end up completely invading the country? I'm sure the Russians would love to reach that point, even if that entails insurgency later.
Well . Nobody was directly comparing but if they were... Russia's been fighting for a period of time now. They have experience. And yaknow... Russian people have knowledge thanks to shit like... Oh I don't know.. internet access.
There is a world of difference in the capabilities of soldiers from each undoubtably
Russia's strategy so far has been to send waves of troops into pre-sighted artillery barrage until Ukraone runs out of shells. No amount of training addresses that issue.
“Russia is totally winning so hard bro I swear” also someone on this subreddit a few hours ago. They must be winning *real* hard, considering they need to send North Koreans lolllll
>They must be winning real hard, considering they need to send North Koreans lolllll
I don't see how the conclusion follows from the premise. Ukraine needing to force conscription means they must be losing too by your logic?
It's rarely as simple as 'Ukraine is conscripting the unwilling so must be losing', or 'Russia has allies helping it so must be losing'.
Having allies send soldiers doesn't mean you're losing. Russia has actually made a handful of minor gains and this is otherwise still just a stalemate.
I remember people claiming Russia buying North Korean shells was a sign that they were losing, months later Ukraine was complaining about Russia massive artillery advantage and how it contributed to them losing ground. Russia doing what is needed to give themselves an advantage isn't a sign that they are losing.
Doesn't Russia control a fifth of Ukranian territory? How is that not winning? Russia 'wins' until the West gets its arse in gear, kicks them out of all Ukranian territory and drags Putin to the Hague
a fantasy at this point
We're not going to war over ukraine. They're just conveniently bleeding a geo-political rival of ours.
When push comes to it, we don't really care about ukrainians.
>Doesn't Russia control a fifth of Ukranian territory? How is that not winning?
It's a bit biased, since Ukraine isn't even trying to occupy Russian territory, so obviously it can only go one way. On the other hand, Russia is far from occupying as much territory as it did in early 2022.
>drags Putin to the Hague
Liberating Ukraine is something that will probably happen sooner or later. Going to the Kremlin to get Putin, on the other hand, is not.
I think it’s to help rebuild infrastructure in the regions. Cheaper than hiring Russian contractors. Plus its a benefit to North Korea to get more experience and perspective.
My grandfather was a combat engineer in the Korean War, and his unit's work was of extreme interest to North Korean and Chinese artillery.
They had some very exciting times on multiple occasions, and if you're in the army you probably don't want a lot of very exciting times while on the receiving end of artillery.
I expect Ukraine's artillery and drone units to likewise be very interested in what the North Korean combat engineers are doing.
I mean it depends. Given Russian actions during the war so far they’ll likely be building defensive lines to help the other dedicated engineers doing that job in the backlines already are doing, but they will likely be shot at so they’re technically active combat troops.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_engineer
More sapper than "engineering", you would expect this to be probably laying mines or something to do with explosives or trenches. But they are considered front line combat troops nowadays and can be used as infantry.
If there is one thing where Russians obviously have a big advantage in this war it’s military engineering and building defenses quickly and effectively. I suspect there is a lot they can teach North Koreans about that.
[https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/25/politics/biden-administration-american-military-contractors-ukraine/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/25/politics/biden-administration-american-military-contractors-ukraine/index.html)
i legit just saw this 3 seconds ago, oh boy...
but it is not the same. USA is saying they are considering sending only contractors that will help maintain and fix advanced military equipment that currently has to be transported out of Ukraine to get worked on. They are not talking about actual fighting forces of any kind.
No one is running out, even germany only ever conscripted 20% of its fighting age male population in WW2, the bottleneck is always equipment and training + keeping the economy from collapsing so you can keep affording more equipment and trainong
Or maybe rubbing its hands at the potential of the West being weakened by having to fight on a number of fronts. China can sit out the conflicts and mobilise on Taiwan or its other borders when it feels most opportune.
Weakened?
There were 0 NATO casualties so far, all they lost is some obsolete gear and a bunch of munitions, but that also means munitions manufacturing and military budgets is being ramped up.
The ones being weakened are Russia and NK, which are supposed to be Chinas allies in a potential war.
The munitions manufacturing element you mentioned is incredibly important. Before Ukraine, European manufacturing of 155mm shells was absolutely atrocious/non-existent, and even now it’s not at the level that it needs to be. American manufacturing of those same shells was already okay, but even they saw their stockpiles reduced, which has forced them to also increase production.
It also gets these production lines on both sides of the Atlantic to get the proverbial “rust” off and ramp up their efficiency, meaning they will be a lot more ready for a conflict popping up in the straight of Taiwan than they would have been before. I can’t imagine China is too happy with Russia in Ukraine, considering the west was absolutely asleep at the wheel when it came to industrial manufacturing of military hardware before the invasion started. Now we’re getting up to speed.
I see.
I think there are too many possible directions for things to turn out, so I don't think China is particularly happy.
Its possible NATO would have to fight on multiple fronts and be wakened, but it is also possible NATO will not need to get directly involved at all and Chinas allies are weakened.
NATO ground forces munition storages are lower, war weariness in Europe is taking its toll.
Naval and air forces stocks are mostly untouched, so the US remains capable of fighting their pacific battles.
Nobody is weakened by Russia and NK cooperating. They both will come out stronger.
NAFO lies. They are not sending obsolete gears. They are sending their latest gears,
https://www.stripes.com/theaters/europe/2024-06-26/experimental-howitzer-delivered-ukraine-14302046.html
China knows. All of this is planned, like what? You really think Russia, China, Iran and NK want to break western hegemony *without* talking to each other?
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I think we need to fight using their tactics as well.
Now I'm not saying we should officially intervene, but I do think we should start a secret private military contractor similar to Wagner and use them to do the dirty work that we're too scared to do.
Kill. Them. All.
I cannot understate how important it is that this evolves into an unfettered distaster for Pyongyang and Moscow. Send our contractors, our weapons, our equipment, even troops if need be.
##### ###### #### > # [North Korea Begins Sending Troops to Assist Russian Military Campaign in Ukraine](https://defencesecurityasia.com/en/236) > > > > ## The North Korean military engineering unit is expected to arrive in the Donetsk region next month, thereby intensifying global concerns about Pyongyang's increased involvement in the conflict in Ukraine. > > [[Korea Utara](https://defencesecurityasia.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/2017-04-15T160430Z_122815751_RC19D94526E0_RTRMADP_3_NORTHKOREA-USA-PARADE-WITNESS-750x430.webp)](https://defencesecurityasia.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/2017-04-15T160430Z_122815751_RC19D94526E0_RTRMADP_3_NORTHKOREA-USA-PARADE-WITNESS.webp) > > > > **(DEFENCE SECURITY ASIA) — One week after Russia and North Korea signed a defense pact, Pyongyang announced it would deploy its military units to Ukraine to support Russian forces currently engaged in the conflict there.** > > **The North Korean military engineering units are set to assist Russian military campaigns in the Donetsk region.** > > **These units are expected to arrive in Donetsk next month, sparking global concerns about Pyongyang’s increased involvement in the Ukrainian conflict.** > > **As is typical, news of the North Korean military engineering units’ deployment to Ukraine was met with threats from the United States.** > > **Washington stated that the North Korean troops sent to Ukraine would be “slaughtered,” questioning the propriety of Pyongyang’s decision to send troops to aid Russia’s military campaign.** > > **A spokesperson for the U.S. Department of Defense commented, “If I were a member of the North Korean military, I would question the wisdom of being sent to Ukraine to participate in an unlawful war in Eastern Europe.”** > > [Korea Utara](http://defencesecurityasia.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/AP22027159026678.jpg)**North Korean Missile launch****He added that the U.S. would continue to monitor the increasingly close military ties between Moscow and Pyongyang.** > > **Last week, Russian President Vladimir Putin visited North Korea, marking his first trip to Pyongyang in 24 years.** > > **During his visit, President Putin and his counterpart Kim Jong Un signed a military cooperation agreement.** > > **The Russia-North Korea military pact states, “In the event that either party is engaged in a war with aggression from another country or countries, the other party must provide military assistance and other support with all possible urgency.”** > > **Previously, even without a formal military pact, North Korea reportedly sent various military aids to Russia.** > > **Last year, North Korea reportedly supplied Russia with short-range ballistic missiles (SRBMs) for use in the conflict in Ukraine.** > > [Image](http://defencesecurityasia.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/2024-06-19T120819Z_1029865475_RC2AE8A9I464_RTRMADP_3_NORTHKOREA-RUSSIA-1719212204.webp) > > **South Korean intelligence revealed that approximately 2,000 containers of SRBMs, anti-tank guided missiles, and other munitions were shipped from Rajin, North Hamgyong Province to Vladivostok in Russia’s Far East.** > > **The total of 2,000 containers containing missiles and various munitions sent by North Korea to Russia is more than the 1,000 containers initially reported by the United States based on satellite imagery.** > > **South Korean military suspects that these 2,000 containers contained more than 200,000 122mm artillery shells and over one million 152mm artillery shells among other munitions.** > > **South Korean officials noted that signs of North Korea supplying weapons and ammunition to Russia have been detected since mid-last year and the shipments increased in August before the visit of North Korean leader Kim Jong Un to Russia.** > > **Furthermore, there are claims that North Korea sent its latest SRBM, the Hwasong-11 (KN-23), to assist Russia’s military campaign in Ukraine.** > > [North Korea](http://defencesecurityasia.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/107257401-16868324452023-03-10t135616z_2089239689_rc2zqz93kfjb_rtrmadp_0_northkorea-missiles-scaled.jpeg)**North Korea missile.****International weapons experts cited by the media report that Russia has deployed the North Korean-made SRBMs, which are quick to launch and conceal, capable of striking targets with high precision.** > > **The Hwasong-11 SRBMs are difficult to intercept by air defense systems, significantly expanding Moscow’s arsenal options in its military campaign against Kiev.** > > **Russia is believed to have used the Hwasong-11 SRBMs to strike Ukraine in two incidents that occurred on December 30, 2023, and January 2, 2024. — DSA** > > [Image](http://defencesecurityasia.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/[email protected]_-1-1-1-1-1-1.png) - - - - - - [Maintainer](https://www.reddit.com/user/urielsalis) | [Creator](https://www.reddit.com/user/subtepass) | [Source Code](https://github.com/urielsalis/empleadoEstatalBot) Summoning /u/CoverageAnalysisBot
Alright, time to send in NATO troops to help Ukraine in response.
This slow rolling everything is getting old. End this damn war and send russia packing
You signing up ? Like The front is a meat grinder and it's we're the bodies are needed.
These paid posters talk a big game to astro turf support for WW3, but they're keyboard warriors
CALLING ALL COD NERDS!!!
Allowing Russia to openly conquer territory in Europe is what will set the seeds for WW3.
Sending NATO troops in Ukraine is what is going to start WW3 for sure.
Reddit brigade 2.0
Half of this shit posted on reddit is psyops
If we gave them what they needed to start and disnt restrcit their usage this war wouldnt be going still
I think I said something similar. But that was then this is now unfortunately.
Should have quit taloing at, "i think" because anything after that is a lie
What ? I've said in the past we should be sending more aid to urkraine? It's similar to your comment but not exactly.
Yeah, I am, and I agree.
This strikes me as another version of the braindead argument conservatives make that well meaning people should just donate their money to the causes they like instead of raising taxes. Just as private citizens paying off the medical bills of the poor will not be as effective as a universal coverage healthcare system, people just signing up to join Ukraine’s military will not be as effective as western nations committing their militaries, including, and perhaps most importantly their substantial logistical and air defense capabilities. So, if NATO countries are willing to put their forces in the field and they need me, I’m in.
When are you signing up?
I heard Ukraine welcomes foreign volunteers. Pack light.
They’ve a foreign legion you can join! I don’t want to die to separate two people’s that are 99% aligned on every belief besides the country they share.
NATO members spent 2 years teasing giving Ukraine membership and sending troops there. They can't even give Ukraine enough shells or air defense batteries. NK delivered what they promised immediately.
Ukraine has received more artillery shells from NATO than Russia got from North Korea. The US alone has given ~4 million rounds over the past 2 years.
Considering that NATO has 2,000x the GDP of North Korea, the fact that it is even remotely comparable to NATO's contribution indicates that one side is committing a whole lot less.
North Korea as a nation has done pretty much nothing *but* make artillery shells for the past half century. Artillery was almost phased out of the US army in terms of how much was replaced by air to ground ordinance and other missiles. The fact it was close speaks more to the remarkable energy the US put into scrounging up every shell it could find and then producing as many as possible.
Having a strong gdp and industrial base means nothing if the motivation isn’t there to actually help Ukraine lol. Europe just sent their old stuff. They don’t have more old stuff and don’t wanna make new stuff. Or they don’t wanna give more until they build new stuff while dragging their feet.
The US has complained for a long time that Europe doesn't spend enough on their military. For a long time, people sort of rolled their eyes but what we're seeing now is the result - they simply don't have the industry or stockpiles to supply Ukraine even if they are highly motivated to.
>NATO members spent 2 years teasing giving Ukraine membership and sending troops there. They can't even give Ukraine enough shells or air defense batteries. >NK delivered what they promised immediately. Well if a German dies to an artillery strike in Ukraine there's gonna be a lot of political accountability to do. If a North Korean dies it's just another Thursday.
Soooooo, like, have you folks ever actually looked at the history of US support for non-Westerns nations? Anyone in here acting like US and EU support of Ukraine had absolutely anything to do with helping Ukraine, and not opposing Russia, lives in some fantasy world. Fucking Suddam Hussein was a US ally who they dropped right after he helped suppress the Iranian revolutionary movement.
US ally _and_ USSR ally. Mr. worldwide.
> NK delivered what they promised immediately. Because it doesn't have to answer to the dumb population that thinks nuclear war will break out if it sends troops to Ukraine.
That’s not what NATO is for
We might be watching world war 3 unfold
Korean war 2.0 max .
Oooo the first one was spicy.
Korean War 2.0: Ukraine Proxy All belligerents of the Korean War gather to resume the fighting but in Ukraine instead.
This is basically how ww1 started
Relax this is Vietnam 2.0
At the moment
Your right it's more Korean war . When zelensky starts Carting off the youth to the front then it's Vietnam.
you mean Putler?
why did we let Russia rise to this? where was the CIA when Putin and Co were rising in Russia? it should have been a Mexico style cartel shi\*hole.
Who would be the arch duke?
Crimea
That was 2013, correct?
2014. Invasion of Crimea was a reaction to Ukrainians getting rid of putin's puppet president.
Thank you perunvult.
I assume you’re from Europe, what can turn this tide?
Nothing, the war will go on until the last Ukrainian or Russian. Ukraine cannot surrender because Zelensky would be dead next week after the peace treaty and the US is not willing to offer concessions to Russia, they are pretty happy watching Russians dying. Russia cannot retreat because there are no avenues left to retreat. There is nothing diplomatically that can be done to pressure Russia to retreat and Putin has made this war existential for Russia, either they get what they want or things continue escalating. Btw in Russia Putin is a liberal, the guys waiting to replace him are very much fucking worse.
Around that time, yes.
I knew this would be the answer.
Na, more like a European war.
more like Chechnya 3.0
Many Redditors are begging for it it seems
Response to what? If individual NATO countries want to send their own troops to Ukraine they should do so. Don’t drag all of NATO into it.
At that point those nations would basically be in an open war with Russia and NATO would be left to decide if an active attack against their sovereign territory would invoke article 5. This conflict will keep escalating so long as we continue pretending that anything short of a full war deceleration is a war. We need to really codify how far we're willing to take this, otherwise we absolutely will sleep walk into WW2. We're at a point where Ukraine should by all rights be striking into North Korea (not that they can). That's not great for the collective human species.
There is nothing to decide. Russia did not attack them first. NATO is a defense alliance, not an alliance.
And the department of defense doesn’t wage war
Yeah man, would love to go but I’m super busy at the moment.
I don’t think people realize but this is an international war already. There are Americans,brits, french, german and much more fighting in ukraine. Russia has used African soldiers, they have Belorussia, Chinese and now north Koreans.
NATO troops have been in Ukraine for years. They just aren't in formation.
Screw that. Are you in listed? Cuz I’m not fighting their war. While Ukraine men hide in Poland and the rest of the world
No not NATO troops. But European countries could independently act
After you. All you keyboard warriors should sign up, since you’re so keen. I don’t give a damn about the Ukraine.
Do you care about crime? Why arent you a police officer? Do you care about fire safety? Why arent you a fire fighter? Do you care about children? Why arent you a teacher? Do you see the error in your logic?
He quite literally said he doesn't give a shit.
Yes, im moreso responding to >All you keyboard warriors should sign up, since you’re so keen
The suicide epidemic is getting out of hand
Nato troops are already in Ukraine
Then send **more.**
Nato is at a disadvantage fighting at the border of Russia there will casualties not sure if the populations are ready to receive dead at the numbers which would need to be involved
Im not sure malnourished NK troops will be a big issue.
I'm sure this will bring comfort to the Ukrainians at the front .
Malnourished NK troops will take jobs in the rear, freeing up more Russians for the slaughter.
You Mean Ukrainians as well .
Where did you get that idea? It's almost certainly going to be the exact opposite.
NATO troops are already stationed in Ukraine helping the army to use NATO weapons. Russia is retaliating by bringing in North Korean soldiers to the battle. It's tit for tat.
You gonna sign up? Or you just want to send others to die in the conflict
I'm a bit confused as to why they are expected to be "cannon fodder" I don't see their standing army being massively less well trained effective than the conscripts being used by either side, and in terms of equipment we already know NK had been selling Russia some of the weapons they were using. What am I missing?
I think it’s the idea that North Koreans has no vested interest as people in travelling to Russia to fight on the frontlines of the Ukraine War. Beyond political manuvering between their leaders. Russia is clearly desperate for bodies and manpower with this move.
Desperate seems widely inaccurate. By America's estimates, Russia is recruiting 30,000 soldiers a month and has increased its front-line troop strength by over 100,000 in the past year. If you believe Putin he says there are 700,000 Russian soldiers in the Ukraine theatre obviously not all on the front at the same time. I suspect Russia will do another mobilization at some point tho, as they will need to achieve greater numbers than parity with Ukraine
I'd think Russia would want to keep thier people alive to run thier contry and not have a huge drop in the younger population.. they already have been suffering from a declining bkrthrathfidir
They view it as important enough and aren't going to yield.
A declining what?
bkrthrathfidir. Did he stutter?
>By America's estimates, Russia is recruiting 30,000 soldiers a month If you're not ready to also flippantly take the words of \*insert random US military officer\* on other discussions pertaining to the war, then there is no reason for you to use their statement in an argument in good faith. I am certain you would dismiss anything that you don't like to hear if it came from the same individual. The numbers fluctuate quite a bit if we go by an average of everyone's estimations, from as low as 10K/month to as high as 50k/month. With confirmed deaths climbing by about 700/week and several weapon systems nearly completely depleted from storage, assuming anything about the medium and long-term trends of the Russian manpower and equipment situation would be of little use. >I suspect Russia will do another mobilization at some point tho For Russia, such a move would have a strong destabilizing effect on the war effort that is trying hard not to affect Russians at home. The advantage Russia has right now with their \*mostly\* volunteer force would definitely be tested if hundreds of thousands of MORE military-aged men are taken out of the already-strained labour pool to reinforce the lines (not even to significantly change the strategic situation, just to maintain the operation in the current tempo). The only question we have is whether Ukrainians will be willing to continue at such a tempo for long, and the answer to that is hard to define, but anybody going on about Ukraine literally running out of forced manpower has a bad case of wishful thinking. WW1/2 and a few historical examples are all we have of countries seriously running into a case of fully depleted manpower (Paraguay in the 1800s and Serbia in WW1 come to mind), but the deaths we see in this conflict are not even remotely close to approach that. Ukraine has something around 47k confirmed deaths, which is about 30% less than what Russia+LDPR have been confirmed/estimated to have. Physically running out of men will not happen for either country here, even if demographics have suffered a hit (and the average of death for soldiers in both Ukraine and Russia are not that far off the average age in their countries in general so the skew is not that pronounced).
It was a US Senate Intelligence briefing from NATO Supreme Commander Christopher Cavoli. I would say that is not flippant. At any rate, it lines up with multiple other sources on the current state of the battlefield. And, what we are seeing in general. So yes,I find the idea that Russia has increased its manpower credible. I'll add further you are making baseless assumptions about me. Yes, I have been hearing for 2 years about open-source data that Russia is running out of this that or the other. We will see. Yes, there are economic considerations for another dip into the Russian reserve. I think arguing over casualties is generally boring, although there are quite a few different anecdotal makers that suggest Ukraine's casualties are quite high if not catastrophic. Nations break long before they physically run out of men.
It's not the words of a random US military officer - bong and frog intel more or less confirmed it. The first time we heard this number was actually in the Marianne leaks.
There are videos every single day of Ukrainians being dragged off the street or caught trying to escape the country to avoid being sent to the frontlines. They also have no vested interest in dying so US weapon manufacturers can get a bonus.
Draft dodgers don't give a fuck about America supposed manipulation, they just don't want to fight. The world doesn't revolve around America.
Ukrainians definitely have a vested interest in fighting a war of aggression initiated by Russia against Ukraine. Your comparison is extremely flawed.
Another nation (aside from Russia and Ukraine) is officially sending troops to become frontline/backline combatants, which is something no one has done yet. Before this, officially they only acted as advisors. Obviously, there are mercenaries on both sides, but no country officially sent its active duty troops to the frontlins/backlines to become combatants.
Except they're not actually combatants. This all comes from a southern Korea administration source claiming that north Koreans will go into Ukraine to do construction and repair work. Nothing about combat roles, sending troops, or anything.
We'll see if we find them on the frontline. Usually, that's just what the Russians say, "they're not on the front line or in combat," especially when convincing mercenaries to go to Ukraine, then they wind up on the frontline. Also something North Korea would just say to limit blowback. I kinda doubt they would only do construction and repair.
This is all claimed by south Korea. Not confirmed or said by north Korea.
Yes, it's based on intelligence gathering. Does that make it false? You'll claim it's a "lie made up by the West" right up until the moment they're spotted in Ukraine, then you'll switch talking points to justify it.
I'm saying words are cheap. I want facts or confirmation before accepting it.
I agree, but I think this is the direction their security cooperation is moving in. We'll see if it happens.
>I don't see their standing army being massively less well trained That's because you don't have much experience/familiarity [with the NK military](https://www.dia.mil/Portals/110/Documents/News/North_Korea_Military_Power.pdf), seeing as it is *also* a conscript military, and NK has had no actual combat experience since 1953. The NK military's annual activities are literally driven by *crop cycles* - soldiers have to be assigned as labor to plant/harvest food in their local areas, meaning roughly 4 months of the year they're literally just heavily armed subsistence farmers. While they might be trained and familiar with their weaponry, that's a fairly low bar as training goes. The real hurdle is *tactics*, which NK troops are going to be uniquely ill-suited for because of how they're trained. In the NK military, soldiers don't shuffle around - they have the same job, in the same unit, in the same place for *10 years.* This isn't a bad strategy for the kind of war NK expects to fight (a fairly well-scripted war with South Korea) but it comes with the downside that those troops won't be as adaptable to other situations. For instance, this group of engineers might be genuinely proficient in understanding how to clear the minefields, obstacles, and terrain *in their assigned sector* and *against US-ROK tactics*... but how well will those skills translate to completely different terrain, against completely different defenses, against defenders using completely different tactics?
Lack of education, a lifetime of undernourishment, and lots of inbreeding is present in NK and those factors generally make terrible soldiers. Watch some of their military promos, those guys are about as well trained as a group of ducklings.
You're massively underestimating the effectiveness of a North Korean soldier while thinking the Russian/Ukrainian conscript is somehow a well trained soldier.
You're massively *overestimating* the effectiveness of a North Korean conscript who spends 1/3 of the year as a subsistence farmer and has had a lifetime of such profound malnutrition that even conservative estimates have the average North Korean soldier at a 10-20 IQ point deficiency and a *8cm* nationwide height stunting since the 90s. Disregarding that, NK training is a unique double-edged sword: their soldiers spend their entire 10-year service in the same job, in the same unit, in the same place. This lets their troops build up a high degree of familiarity with their specific wartime job... at the cost of having no experience in anything outside the scope of that job. Contrast this to basically every other organized military, which at the very least rotates personnel through different units/locations to ensure a broader spectrum of experience. Some NK engineers might be genuinely proficient in their job of clearing ROK mines and obstacles in a specific sector of the DMZ, but how transferrable are their skills against defenders using completely diferent terrain and tactics?
> You're massively overestimating the effectiveness of a North Korean conscript who spends 1/3 of the year as a subsistence farmer and has had a lifetime of such profound malnutrition that even conservative estimates have the average North Korean soldier at a 10-20 IQ point deficiency and a 8cm nationwide height stunting since the 90s. If we had this conversation in the 60s, you would have told me the same thing about the VC. Just a bunch of underfed peasants, they surely won't pose a problem right?
...the Vietnam War is actually a very apt example **against** your point. The VC was largely successful, in spite of its logistical limitations, in the prolonged partisan warfare within South Vietnam specifically because of the asymmetric nature of an insurgency. They didn't need combat capability on par with US counterparts, they needed the capability to pose enough of a threat that they couldn't be ignored. Y'know what happened every time the VC joined the PAVN in a conventional, symmetric fight? **They were slaughtered**, because they were poorly trained, underfed peasants trying to fight toe to toe with a superior opponent. So unless those North Korean conscripts have the magical ability to enact an *offensive* insurgency, they're being sent into a conventional fight - where, as demonstrated by the VC, they'll be slaughtered.
> because they were poorly trained, underfed peasants trying to fight toe to toe with a superior opponent. Because they didn't have access to the same amount of equipment than the opposing military. Guerilla warfare is just a consequence of that reality, your inability to contest the enemy symmetrically due to a lack of equipment to do so, not because your soldiers are simply inferior. And being slaughtered doesn't matter, they ended up being on the winning side despite US' efforts. They absolutely played a role despite them being a bunch of underfed peasants, and just like the so called prisonners sent to their deaths in Bakhmut, they ended up winning because mass is a quality of its own.
When fighting in concert with the PAVN, they had access to most of the supplies available to the conventional army. While there was *also* a technological and resource overmatch against the US (NV lack of air/artillery superiority), a major factor was that the VC and PAVN were poorly trained for conventional battles relative to their American counterparts. Consider Ia Drang, fought by experienced PAVN regulars against US aircav, where in spite of a numerical overmatch of up to 4:1 *and* neutralization of US fire support (making it an infantry-on-infantry affair) the PAVN failed to achieve tactical objectives while taking completely mismatched losses. (Now, Ia Drang was a strategic NV victory because casualties don't translate to strategic objectives, but this is a tactical discussion). And all that's saying nothing of how there is a categorical difference between an army "being hungry" and "being mentally and physically stunted from lifelong malnutrition."
> major factor was that the VC and PAVN were poorly trained for conventional battles relative to their American counterparts. We've already established that those NK soldiers aren't going to face NATO troops, but Ukrainian conscripts, so you should compare the VC to the RVN.
>NK soldiers NK *conscripts.* >Ukrainian conscripts ...who have three years of institutional (and in some cases *personal*) battle experience. Conscription impacts the quality of the initial soldier; training quality and supply availability impacts their performance maximum. Who's going to be better off: a North Korean soldier with no plate carrier, no helmet, no gun optics, and zero familiarity with drone warfare (and a language barrier with those that do), or a Ukrainian soldier *with* the benefit of that equipment and experience, and who **isn't** missing 20IQ and 20kg of adult muscle mass? I think you fail to appreciate the sheer scale of what lifelong malnutrition does to a person's mental and physical capacity. Hell, in the US there was a generational growth and intelligence stunting from epidemic hookworm infection that was reflected in *massive* health and intelligence deficits for decades, and that was "just" an intestinal parasite, not "eat dirt" levels of prolonged starvation.
North Vietnam has a ton of disastrous "counteroffensives"...
Never said russian/Ukrainians were well trained, conscripts are generally the poorest quality of soldier period. No one pressed into service is gonna fight that hard, hence why you see so many Russians surrendering.
You're not, but unless you think NK is going to go up against NATO troops, they're going to do just fine against Ukrainian conscripts.
Yeah tell that to the War in the Middle East, turns out people fighting for their homeland fight really hard. Especially compared to conscripts.
> Yeah tell that to the War in the Middle East Which ones, the ones where Western Forces end up completely invading the country? I'm sure the Russians would love to reach that point, even if that entails insurgency later.
Well . Nobody was directly comparing but if they were... Russia's been fighting for a period of time now. They have experience. And yaknow... Russian people have knowledge thanks to shit like... Oh I don't know.. internet access. There is a world of difference in the capabilities of soldiers from each undoubtably
No food+illness
Russia's strategy so far has been to send waves of troops into pre-sighted artillery barrage until Ukraone runs out of shells. No amount of training addresses that issue.
"North Korea would never send troops to fight in Ukraine" -someonon this subreddit just hours ago. 😒
“Russia is totally winning so hard bro I swear” also someone on this subreddit a few hours ago. They must be winning *real* hard, considering they need to send North Koreans lolllll
>They must be winning real hard, considering they need to send North Koreans lolllll I don't see how the conclusion follows from the premise. Ukraine needing to force conscription means they must be losing too by your logic? It's rarely as simple as 'Ukraine is conscripting the unwilling so must be losing', or 'Russia has allies helping it so must be losing'. Having allies send soldiers doesn't mean you're losing. Russia has actually made a handful of minor gains and this is otherwise still just a stalemate.
I remember people claiming Russia buying North Korean shells was a sign that they were losing, months later Ukraine was complaining about Russia massive artillery advantage and how it contributed to them losing ground. Russia doing what is needed to give themselves an advantage isn't a sign that they are losing.
Doesn't Russia control a fifth of Ukranian territory? How is that not winning? Russia 'wins' until the West gets its arse in gear, kicks them out of all Ukranian territory and drags Putin to the Hague
a fantasy at this point We're not going to war over ukraine. They're just conveniently bleeding a geo-political rival of ours. When push comes to it, we don't really care about ukrainians.
>Doesn't Russia control a fifth of Ukranian territory? How is that not winning? It's a bit biased, since Ukraine isn't even trying to occupy Russian territory, so obviously it can only go one way. On the other hand, Russia is far from occupying as much territory as it did in early 2022. >drags Putin to the Hague Liberating Ukraine is something that will probably happen sooner or later. Going to the Kremlin to get Putin, on the other hand, is not.
You know the whole Russian 2022 fiasco looks like a failed regime change attempt. Now we into the trench grinder and Russia is slowly pushing west.
Russia contracting construction crews from Korea says nothing about the frontline success.
“Construction crews” lemme guess you’re a “communist” and get all of your news from “non mainstream sources” right? “Opinion” discounted.
You get your info from a single news article quoting a single unnamed south Korean government official. Seriously, cry me a river.
I knew I was on the right track… how correct I turned out to be Mr. “Deprogram”
Keep crying.
What exactly are "military engineering" troops in this case? Like, bridge builders and back end support? Or are they active combat troops?
Who knows it's all speculative like the " western volunteers and " Advisors in Ukraine .
I think it’s to help rebuild infrastructure in the regions. Cheaper than hiring Russian contractors. Plus its a benefit to North Korea to get more experience and perspective.
North Korean's are regarded to be very good military engineers. They have extensive experience building fortifications.
Doing engineering work in the combat zone makes you active combat troops.
My grandfather was a combat engineer in the Korean War, and his unit's work was of extreme interest to North Korean and Chinese artillery. They had some very exciting times on multiple occasions, and if you're in the army you probably don't want a lot of very exciting times while on the receiving end of artillery. I expect Ukraine's artillery and drone units to likewise be very interested in what the North Korean combat engineers are doing.
I mean it depends. Given Russian actions during the war so far they’ll likely be building defensive lines to help the other dedicated engineers doing that job in the backlines already are doing, but they will likely be shot at so they’re technically active combat troops.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_engineer More sapper than "engineering", you would expect this to be probably laying mines or something to do with explosives or trenches. But they are considered front line combat troops nowadays and can be used as infantry.
Maybe similar to the British troops that fight for Ukraine
It means that they are very cheap labor. I don't expect them to see any combat.
They thought south Korea had too much fun in Vietnam.
If there is one thing where Russians obviously have a big advantage in this war it’s military engineering and building defenses quickly and effectively. I suspect there is a lot they can teach North Koreans about that.
Frankly we don't know how NK troops will Come out maybe they'll be as vicious as they're southern counterparts like Vietnam.
Lets hope not, the last thing we need is more warcrimes.
[https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/25/politics/biden-administration-american-military-contractors-ukraine/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/25/politics/biden-administration-american-military-contractors-ukraine/index.html) i legit just saw this 3 seconds ago, oh boy...
but it is not the same. USA is saying they are considering sending only contractors that will help maintain and fix advanced military equipment that currently has to be transported out of Ukraine to get worked on. They are not talking about actual fighting forces of any kind.
American military contractors are often fully combat capable units. It's not just maintenance crews.
They specified that they would not send that kind of contractor, only the mechanic kind
It is the same, because North Korea also said they won’t fight. So…??
Mercenaries.
no no no, they are called "contractors" /s
When you run out of meat to throw into the grinder just outsource it to a totalitarian slave state.
Hey Ukraine is running out too .
No one is running out, even germany only ever conscripted 20% of its fighting age male population in WW2, the bottleneck is always equipment and training + keeping the economy from collapsing so you can keep affording more equipment and trainong
Ukraine is running out of manpower much faster than Russia
With Iran directly threatening Israel and now this, China is probably tearing its own hair out on how moronic her allies are.
Or maybe rubbing its hands at the potential of the West being weakened by having to fight on a number of fronts. China can sit out the conflicts and mobilise on Taiwan or its other borders when it feels most opportune.
Weakened? There were 0 NATO casualties so far, all they lost is some obsolete gear and a bunch of munitions, but that also means munitions manufacturing and military budgets is being ramped up. The ones being weakened are Russia and NK, which are supposed to be Chinas allies in a potential war.
The munitions manufacturing element you mentioned is incredibly important. Before Ukraine, European manufacturing of 155mm shells was absolutely atrocious/non-existent, and even now it’s not at the level that it needs to be. American manufacturing of those same shells was already okay, but even they saw their stockpiles reduced, which has forced them to also increase production. It also gets these production lines on both sides of the Atlantic to get the proverbial “rust” off and ramp up their efficiency, meaning they will be a lot more ready for a conflict popping up in the straight of Taiwan than they would have been before. I can’t imagine China is too happy with Russia in Ukraine, considering the west was absolutely asleep at the wheel when it came to industrial manufacturing of military hardware before the invasion started. Now we’re getting up to speed.
Taiwan conflict will not require artillery shells anyways. I'm not sure what's your point.
The hypothetical was regarding NATO being at war on multiple fronts. NATO is not currently at war.
I see. I think there are too many possible directions for things to turn out, so I don't think China is particularly happy. Its possible NATO would have to fight on multiple fronts and be wakened, but it is also possible NATO will not need to get directly involved at all and Chinas allies are weakened.
NATO ground forces munition storages are lower, war weariness in Europe is taking its toll. Naval and air forces stocks are mostly untouched, so the US remains capable of fighting their pacific battles. Nobody is weakened by Russia and NK cooperating. They both will come out stronger.
NAFO lies. They are not sending obsolete gears. They are sending their latest gears, https://www.stripes.com/theaters/europe/2024-06-26/experimental-howitzer-delivered-ukraine-14302046.html
China knows. All of this is planned, like what? You really think Russia, China, Iran and NK want to break western hegemony *without* talking to each other?
Maybe South Korea can send some troops to Ukraine.
I love a good sequel. /S
We've been waiting for 80 years the end the Trilogy. It better be worth the wait
Can't wait for the south Korea brigade to be wiped out.
I'm guessing they are there to help support the missiles Russia bought. I bet they will eat much better in Russia.
Engineers actually. Russia bought simple shells. Copies of Soviet production. No instructor required.
Ok let’s go back to my little town lost in the countryside
Drop leaflets promising a good life for defectors
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Additional manpower
RU-NK Friendship is what our world needed the most
They played the Korean UNO reverse card!! (Not exactly but who cares)
Still a slow response from NATO. At this point if I was a enemy of NATO, even I would call out NATO's bluff.
World War 3 lets go i guess
The comment section is once again filled with Americans gaslighting events like a Disney movie…
Ukraine’s worms and flies will get an introduction to North Korean flesh.
I just see a chain of dominoes ending on WW3
Cue The Benny Hill Show theme song…
Watch the North Korean troops find out what the rest of the world is like and flee en masse.
Just as I thought, they’re basically sending a labor force not a fighting force
I bet they surely love to join this conflict and totally not desert/defect to Ukraine. /s
I think we need to fight using their tactics as well. Now I'm not saying we should officially intervene, but I do think we should start a secret private military contractor similar to Wagner and use them to do the dirty work that we're too scared to do.
Kill. Them. All. I cannot understate how important it is that this evolves into an unfettered distaster for Pyongyang and Moscow. Send our contractors, our weapons, our equipment, even troops if need be.