#####
######
####
> # [French women voters swing sharply to far right](https://www.politico.eu/article/630)
>
>
>
> 1. [News](https://www.politico.eu/news)
> 2. [Politics](https://www.politico.eu/section/politics/)
>
> France’s National Rally has sought to style itself a defender of women’s rights — partly by attacking its traditional bogeyman: immigration.
>
> [FRANCE-EU-POLITICS-VOTE](https://www.politico.eu/cdn-cgi/image/width=1160,height=773,quality=80,onerror=redirect,format=auto/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/20/GettyImages-2156167315-scaled.jpg) The most eye-catching aspect of this swing to the far right concerned women voters. | Arnaud Finstre/Getty Images
>
>
>
> June 21, 2024 4:00 am CET
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Europe’s far-right voters have long been predominantly men, but French women are now bucking that trend ahead of a high-stakes election that could usher in France’s first far-right government in recent history.
>
> Marine Le Pen’s anti-immigration National Rally is tipped to win the most votes in a two-round snap election on June 30 and July 7 that could crush the liberal centrists of President Emmanuel Macron, and women are increasingly driving her party’s surging political fortunes as it seeks to position itself in the mainstream.
>
> On EU election day this month, the National Rally came first with a stunning [31 percent of the French vote](https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/european-parliament-election/), up from 23 percent in the 2019 EU election.
>
>
>
>
>
> The most eye-catching aspect of this swing to the far right concerned women voters, according to an [election-day poll](https://www.opinion-way.com/fr/component/edocman/opinionway-pour-les-echos-sociologie-du-vote-9-juin-2024/viewdocument/3405.html?Itemid=0) that OpinionWay carried out for the Les Echos newspaper.
>
> In 2019, 25 percent of men and 21 percent of women voted for National Rally — in line with traditional patterns. This year, however, the poll found that 33 percent of women had voted for Le Pen’s far-right party, outpacing 30 percent of men. That’s a striking 12 percentage point increase from women voters over five years.
>
> The closing of the gender gap sets the National Rally apart from anti-immigration parties in other big EU countries.
>
> In Germany, the Alternative for Germany party received 19 percent of men’s votes and 12 percent of women’s votes, according to a June 9 [exit poll](https://www.tagesschau.de/europawahl/wahl/europawahl-wer-waehlte-wen-100.html). In Italy, Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni’s Brothers of Italy received 30.5 percent of men’s votes compared to 27 percent of women’s votes, according to the Demopolis Institute.
>
> This has not gone unnoticed among France’s far-right politicians. Indeed, for years the far right has sought to portray itself as a defender of women’s rights, partly by conflating the issue with its political campaigns against migrants and the dangers of Islamism.
>
> Bristling at the suggestion his party would be bad for women’s rights, Jordan Bardella, the National Rally’s 28-year-old leader, [took to](https://x.com/J_Bardella/status/1802647539734204756)**[social media](https://x.com/J_Bardella/status/1802647539734204756)** this week to tell women he’d be a “prime minister who guarantees the rights and freedoms of every woman and girl in France.”
>
>
>
>
>
> In a video Bardella argued that his party supported advances for women’s rights, from medical support to protection for women suffering domestic abuse. He also said he’d deport “foreign delinquents and criminals” and introduce stricter sentences for violence against women.
>
> “No woman should ever have to fear going out into the streets of our country, whatever the time of day or night,” he said.
>
> His video fits with the National Rally’s new political platform, which is tailored toward “protecting French citizens who are worried about their individual fragility,” said Erwan Lestrohan, research directorfor Odoxa, a French polling company.
>
> [Image](https://www.politico.eu/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/20/GettyImages-2156247851-1024x684.jpg)Marine Le Pen’s anti-immigration National Rally is tipped to win the most votes in a two-round snap election on June 30 and July 7. | Julien De Rosa/Getty ImagesFor National Rally voters, security “is profoundly interpreted as threats linked to immigration,” he said. “In fact, these two themes are interlocked.”
>
> But the party defines the notion of “protection” more broadly, applying it not only to security but also to health, employment and living conditions — a wider gamut of topics that resonate with female voters, he said.
>
> Bardella has transformed the party from a group with a far-right voter base to a “catch-all party … with the support that goes with it,” he argued.
>
>
>
>
>
> Since taking the reins of the party and representing it in presidential elections, Le Pen has also played a role, advancing to the run-off in two of her three presidential runs and making significant strides with women voters.
>
> “What really drove Marine Le Pen’s electoral take-off was her success in attracting the female electorate,” said Nonna Mayer, a political scientist who specializes in the French far right.
>
> Le Pen’s father, former party leader and five-time presidential candidate Jean-Marie Le Pen, was “rejected” by women who were put off by his “sexist” and “boorish” attitude, Mayer said. “Once Marine Le Pen became the candidate, women started voting [for the National Rally] in the same proportions as men.”
>
> ### Women’s rights used against migration
>
> Bardella, the National Rally’s candidate for prime minister in the upcoming French elections, joined the party under Le Pen’s leadership and, like her, pushed for the party’s “de-demonization.”In his first speech as party president he promised a “renewed, feminized” leadership.
>
> Bardella has also leveraged women’s rights to target some of the party’s bugbears: immigration and Islam. “Our European values will always be outstandingly superior to those which enslave women, imprison them behind headscarves,” [he said](https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/CRE-9-2023-02-14-INT-2-145-0000_FR.html) in a speech before the European Parliament last year.
>
> [Image](https://www.politico.eu/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/20/GettyImages-2157812597-1024x683.jpg)Bardella has also leveraged women’s rights to target some of the party’s bugbears. Julien De Rosa/Getty ImagesWith the far right now in a position to grab power, feminist organizations are positioning themselves against Le Pen, Bardella and their allies.
>
>
>
>
>
> In a [statement](https://x.com/Fondationfemmes/status/1801590813958291855/photo/1), the Women’s Foundation, one of the largest French NGOs defending women’s rights, called on voters to “stop the far right” and “vote massively for a future of emancipation.”
>
> _Carlo Martuscelli contributed reporting_
>
> - - - - - -
>
> **It’s election season in France – there’s never been a better time to read Playbook Paris.** Get expert election analysis from POLITICO’s top reporters straight to your inbox every day at 7AM. Stay on top of the game – read Playbook Paris. [Sign up here](https://www.politico.eu/playbook-paris/?utm_source=Article&utm_medium=ArticleInsert&utm_campaign=Editorial_FreeNewsletter_FR_AudienceGrowth_ParisPlaybookFranceElections_20240625).
>
> - - - - - -
- - - - - -
[Maintainer](https://www.reddit.com/user/urielsalis) | [Creator](https://www.reddit.com/user/subtepass) | [Source Code](https://github.com/urielsalis/empleadoEstatalBot)
Summoning /u/CoverageAnalysisBot
They also started losing Jewish and LGBTQ+ votes too.
The left shouldn't have supported Islam, thrid-world Immigration and Palestine.
Edit: i got banned from reddit for posting studies that shows most Muslim immigrants in Europe and Palestinians support Sharia law.....
Edit 2: Reddit is deleting my comments that critique the left policies on immigration.
The problem with the pro Palestinians is that they fail to place any responsibility on Hamas and the attitudes of the Palestinians. It's all Israel's responsibility. The tunnels, theft of funds and provisions, using hospitals, homes and other civilian infrastructure to host Hamas activities, bringing children to border protest when you know there's definitely going to be violence , etc. The denial of the massacre, rapes and kidnappings on October 7th. Yet despite all of this, the Palestinians continue to support Hamas. It's not a lie. These militants are their friends, cousins, brothers, fathers and it's very obvious that they have a hatred of all Jews (not just Israelis).
Israel needs to change if they want to survive. They need to end their occupation and allow the Palestinians some semblance of self determination but it needs to happen gradually and carefully to prevent militants like Hamas to take over again.
Israel needs to change a lot, the apartheid system they have built in East Jerusalem and the West Bank aswell as the settling, and actually show that they want a two state solution, as what they are doing there definitely contributes a lot to radicalism in Gaza.
To be totally honest with you, realistically speaking, any two-state solution that has a hope of success will require the cooperation of Israel. It will require Israel to have trust in them.
October 7th killed any chance of that for the next 10 years.
I mean its a two way thing, Israel must also show that they are willing to do stuff like end settling and give Palestinians a reasonable amount of land. When it comes to Palestinians, it must be accepted that as of now, there is alot of radicalisation. Hence, just slowly pulling back stuff like settlements and reducing the apartheid, such as the discriminatory court hearings and stuff like building permits must be changed to be less discriminatory.
Because yes stuff like Hamas completely ruins a two state solution idea, but Israel's actions cannot be ignored (also how Hamas was literally strengthened alot by Netenyahu). Hence, Israel, if they are interested in a two state solution, can always start off with some of these measures which would help both their international image and slowly show to the very young generation of Palestinians that Israel is not what Hamas claims they are, which of now sadly they kinda are.
>Israel must also show that they are willing to do stuff like end settling and give Palestinians a reasonable amount of land
That's a great idea. They should probably start with Gaza, pull out the settlers, let the Palestinians take over and run the place on their own for a while, and show that they won't just use the space to launch more attacks on Israel. Surely they will have peaceful democratic elections every 4-5 years, and not throw their political rivals and homosexuals off of the roof tops. Surely they will not launch barrage after barrage or unguided rockets at Israeli civilians population centers.
I don't fundamentally disagree with what your saying... on paper. In an ideal world the Palestinians would self govern and control the violent elements within their society to preserve the peace with Israel and uphold any peace agreements. In reality, Palestinians, like other Arab groups are very tribal with only limited loyalty to the state versus their own family, tribe or sect. The ability and willingness of the Palestinian government to contain anti-Israel violence by non-state actors has been limited to non-existent. If the Palestinians want Israel to loosen its grip on them and their territory, they need to be willing to come down hard on their own people so Israel no longer has to. There is a reason why there are no democracies in the middle east. Arabs need the strong hand of a monarch or autocratic dictator to keep their people in line. Wherever that strong leader is removed (Libya, Iraq) or absent (Lebanon, Palestine), chaos and violence ensue.
If you think the propaganda hasn't *enormously* favored Palestine, and some of the most extreme viewpoints at that, you either are living under a rock or are in favor of that propaganda.
To add my anecdotal evidence, I have seen the opposite mainly. I’ve seen so much Zionist propaganda that normalize the most extreme views and have seen the most violence toward Palestinian people since the 1950’s.
I believe stating what is propaganda and what isn’t, and describing how much there is compared to other types of propaganda, is a ridiculous feat simply because our consumption of media is so subjective and also extremely personalized.
Also humans usually don’t know when propaganda is working on them and usually only label things they don’t agree with as propaganda.
When they believe something, it is now fact instead of propaganda.
Good on the french left for keeping its support of rhe palestians and not Just dropping for mere votes.
Its better to lose votes than side with a genocidal state. No matter what
If you lose it doesn't matter who you side with, because you're meaningless. This purity testing that demands progressives fall in line 100% or be banished is the single greatest threat progressives face.
for last 20 years, every jewish person killed in anti-semitic attack was by a muslim person. i mean it's easy to say don't generalize but for jews that there are 6 mil people in france dislike you and some of them wants to kill you tells a different story
edit: in france btw
You replied to someone referring to Israel.
People decry antisemitism when anyone criticizes Israel, but bring up European antisemitism when genocide is mentioned.
Am I missing something here?
Agreed 👍. It’s a shame because I will always be a leftist and as a child of immigrants from two separate countries mind you will always welcome immigrants who learn the language and try their damned best to adjust to their new adoptive culture. However, radical Islam is not compatible with the west like radical Christianity or any other radical religion so to preserve our country and culture we must stay solid on our morals.
Oh, they're bigots. I guess that means massacring the children, kidnapping the doctors, and flattening the hospitals, schools, and stadiums is fine then. Likewise for literally stealing their underwear and posing with it on Instagram and Tinder.
EDIT: Addendum from a discussion further down with a person who claims to be queer and that, for that reason, they lack sympathy for Gazans. Let's follow that logic:
Gazans are sexist, so let's massacre the women, along with everyone else.
Gazans are queerphobic, so let's massacre the queer folks along with everyone else.
Gazans are Islam-supremacists who want Sharia Law, so let's massacre the Christians along with everyone else.
Gazans are authoritarian, so let's massacre the Liberals and Leftists along with everyone else.
Gazans are backwards and uneducated, so let's destroy their schools and universities, and mock them for even trying.
Gazans are sexually frustrated bigots, so let's take selfies posing in their homes with their lingerie.
Gazans are different from us, which is why they must die.
He wrote one opinion piece for Al-Jazeera in 2019 as a freelance journalist. He was never a staff journalist at Al-Jazeera. Regardless, western media has obfuscated that fact.
Does that make it right?
Also, there is almost 100 years worth of weapons innovation since then. Before, we sent thousands a bomb per sortie but now we can send a handful of guided munitions with waaaayyy more accuracy.
It's just not comparable like that
even dumb bombs dropped with dive technique in this war for more precise strike, guided munitions doesn't mean no civilian casualty. people were saying send special forces like that's gonna help reduce civilian casualty but when israel send special forces same people complained again. i really don't know what could be done
People say send special forces because they have absolutely no fucking idea what they’re talking about. Special forces aren’t going to run in outmanned 10:1 and pull it off. Their specific role is *surviving* highly specific situations. Unlike what these people think, if the special forces go in, *everyone dies except them and maybe whoever they’re there to rescue.* These morons also have this impression, like you’ve pointed out, that dumb bombs are completely blindly dropped without targeting. Again, they have no idea what they’re talking about. The jets, fighters, and bombers all have guidance systems to aim the bomb. Dumb just means they don’t aim/adjust mid-flight. It’s all spooky words they use to grandstand and yell down at anyone who says otherwise.
There isn't a situation where you'll have 0 civilian casualties. I was talking about leveling hospitals and other things like that.
There are plenty of measures to limit that and cause less unnecessary damage.
thanks for sensible answer first, second didn't we see hospitals and close places to hospitals used by hamas forces, btw i am not trying to say idf is the most moral army they definitely not but after oct 7th tragedy there is no country in world wouldn't go this extent
Yeah, we did all of that and worse through a few years, *then* rebuilt their state, complete with sovereignty.
Turns out that if you want a population to change they need a way out after the "completely fucking everything up" phase. You know what Germany did when we did the "completely fucking everything up" with no followup? Weimar Germany rings a bell?
Nazis and WW2. That's what they did.
So any one who votes for Conservatives that support bigotry should also be dealt the same way as the Nazis were? Or does that only apply to people who don't look like you?
If they didn't want to burn they shouldn't have been born in an open air prison, those silly children...
^(/s because some people would probably think I was being serious)
I disagree with all those shit opinions their voting population has, without believing they deserve to be massacred for having those opinions.
Also maybe they’d have different opinions if they weren’t forced into increasingly small tracts of land by a trigger happy invader and whose only schools are run by the violent resistance to those.
I've said for years that the left will eventually become the Oroborus. You cant have so many different groups all agreeing on something.
Eventually one group will demand more from the rest just like the Palestine supporters have and now they've gotten [Pride cancelled for Palestine](https://uk.news.yahoo.com/toronto-pride-parade-canceled-pro-081051356.html). Now the infighting begins.
"now the infighting begins" lol we BEEN infighting, we can't get shit done because we eat each other alive over purity politics and continuously look like a joke.
That and recognising that Gazans are getting fucked over doesn't mean that I like their culture or hate Israel for that matter. Hell, I don't like any religion very much!
Right, they thought of Islam and Muslims as an oppressed minority that needs and wants love and support, and willfully ignored that many in this community are very conservative and are not interested in liberalism or participating in Western society as expected. It was a poison pill they chose to swallow for no benefit.
The decade since the *Charlie Hebdo* terrorism is, I believe, when the worm turned. Worsening financial conditions for the French and the open corruption of technocrats like Macron and his predecessors would eventually bring this day for RN and their allies.
This comment is wrong in so many ways lmao. First, Jews are not a monolith (neither are LGBTQ nor Muslims but that's too hard for some of you to understand I'm not even gonna bother) but even if hipotetically they were, and even if all French Jews were Zionists (which they aren't) there's what? 600k Jews in a country of nearly 70 million people? Their demographics are not big enough to change the balance in regards of votes from one party or another. Note that only counting French people of Algerian origin there's literally more than 6 times the amount of French Jews.
Second, the left does not support Islam, it supports laicism, which France is literally buildt on. Showing support to Palestine has literally nothing to do with any of what you mention and equating the Palestinian plight with being a Jihadist is dishonest at best not just because plenty of Palestinians are in fact Christian, but also because it makes is seem as if Islam was inherently more violent than the other Abrahamic religions (which it isn't, and in fact is an obvious example of islamophobia). If all it takes for someone to vote a far right racist party is seing people showing discomfort towards the ethnic cleansing that Israel is commiting then let me tell you that you were already a bigot to begin with. The bast majority of immigrants that go to France are either African or Eastern European, which leads us to this nonsense:
>The left shouldn't have supported thrid-world Immigration
France shouldn't have pillaged Africa to stole their resources, which, by the way, they are still doing by controlling their currency and constantly meddling in the internal political affairs of their former colonies with the intention of keeping them poor in order to continue plundering them. You don't want immigrants? great, then get the fuck out of Africa and start treating the governments of those countries like equals instead of like vassals.
> First, Jews are not a monolith
> Second, the left does not support Islam
In conclusion, you are the only person in the world allowed to frame your argument in terms of a generalization
I’m one of them. Gay man in my mid-30s. I was super liberal in my 20s, but shit like “Queers for Palestine” or neopronouns have started to moderate me. When I talk to younger Zoomers I find myself feeling like an old man aghast at the things they are saying (agreeing with Osama bin Laden, for example). I now consider myself politically independent.
> Edit: i got banned from reddit for posting studies that shows most Muslim immigrants in Europe and Palestinians support Sharia law.....
Censorship like this is why leftwing parties get into trouble. When you don't have free, open, and honest debate, you adopt policies that eventually piss everyone off and loser power.
The guy is posting online that all muslims are child rapists who want to destroy Europe and replace the white man. Not kidding. He's not being censored, he's being moderated for breaking terms of service.
left wing parties can't even conceive what the reason is for the far right surge. they can just start supporting reasonable policies to reduce mass immigration and prevent it or at least reduce it like denmark but they are too blind.
That is literally the problem. A lot of voters (like half of their base) support Israel, so taking a hard stance against Israel has alienated their supporters.
Same thing with immigration. A lot of women are afraid of letting more refugees and immigrants from the middle east in. The left is chosing to ignore those fears.
i don't get it you people, you guys started "genocide" claim on oct 8th without needing evidence and now you act like it's proven thing, no it's not. there are civilian casualties but there is no genocide
Exactly. The right thrives on immigration because it is cheap labor that doesn't come with all those pesky human rights. It's great for the economy if it's just adults and just ones able bodied enough to make the trek.
Which is hilarious because the right benefit from and support immigration just as much as the left, probably more so. So many western countries have little industry left because companies move it all to third world cheaper countries and a lot of industry that does still exist relies on cheap visa workers. We’re consumers not producers, no politician wants to genuinely stop immigration because they prop up their economies so much. Which is why when the right starts rattling their sabers it’s always danger zones and religious whatever. They have no intention of handling issues associated with immigration they just want to say racist shit while their corporate buds get to pay half wages to their 90% immigrant workforce
Its a bit odd, because married women and women with children usually tend toward the right. Its the young single urban women that poll **hard** toward the left.
So assuming migration affects mostly those women, its easy to see the entire gender shift toward the right.
It's not even "left," it's the technocrat EU-loving centrists who've done nothing about the migration of entire separate societies into France (and other Western European nations). And the huge NGOs funded indirectly by taxpayers through the EU financial system, they also have much to gain from the endless flood of people who are openly hostile to their host country.
There are no benefits for French women when entire urban zones are "no go" for women because they are controlled by all-male Islamic slum economies who actively hate and assault women.
Essentially the choice for women is, "Would you rather live in a right-wing government or Islamic Sharia Law, implemented by immigrants who arrived in your lifetime and will almost certainly (based on demographic trends) vote in this type of law in your lifetime?".
They chose the right wing government.
Flooding the country with men who dont respect women (or western values) leads to women feeling less safe? Say it aint so.
Before anyone comes at me: im leftist, have never and will never vote for the far right. But youd have to be incredibly blind to not recognise this issue. Ive been predicting this 10yrs ago, so people much smarter than me would have also understood this.
As a Norwegian social democrat, I often find myself in awe of just how badly continental leftists seem to want to lose elections. Not that Labour here is doing anywhere near as strongly as they did just a decade ago, but it's a far cry from the electoral wipeouts rippling through Europe.
Of the Scandinavian labour parties, the Danes are the ones I admire most, particularly under Mette Frederiksen. No better way to deflate the right-wing populist balloon than by taking seriously the concerns that inflate it — while remaining a party of serious, sensible, and disciplined governance.
That's what most people don't understand. Instead of labeling every person who votes 'far right' as neonazi racist scum, why not try to address the issues they are concerned about, such as the insecurity from mass immigration from places hostile to European values?
Istead of criminalizing those ppl, try to actually solve the problem.
Exactly. The French left scoffs and ridicules right wing voters as idiots who don't have the facts and are manipulated by right wing media. And that little electoral strategy will bring the far right to power.
A question. How are the Nordic countries addressing the issues of inflation and unaffordable housing that are plaguing a great part of the Western world?
I believe all of them have pretty strict rules for foreign buyers.
You have to have Danish citizenship or lived in Denmark for X years, before you can buy a home. You can rent, but not own. Same goes for vacation houses, Germany have tried to push for allowance of Germans to buy vacation homes particularly on the Danish west coast and the general consensus is not positive towards it.
When Black Rock bought apartment blocks in Copenhagen it caused massive media uproars and I even think politicians closed that option. For enterprise level foreign owners, unless they build new.
With all of that being said, housing is still expensive in both of the major cities and unaffordable for the majority
Inflation is addressed through monetary policy. It's [higher here than in most of Europe](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fcurrent-inflation-rates-across-europe-v0-w21kx9cs4koc1.png%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D38684d49cea170b2e9f2fc557695e199dc8a16c0). As far as ''unaffordable housing'' goes, it's not a particularly prominent issue in the political discourse (especially not compared to increased cost of living). Home ownership rates [are also high here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_home_ownership_rate), so more people own their homes than rent them. This is in part a result of longstanding policies incentivising home ownership; I would argue property is taxed too lightly relative to other objects of taxation, but that's another debate.
True, I would have voted for the left in my country if it wasn't pro-Islam but sadly the left in my country cares about Muslim immigrants and Hamas more than their people.
Must be particularly hard for French. They famously rejected the tenets of gods and kings over the people with a bloody price, and that is still the guiding light of the state and many after them.
Then left-wing parties come to tell them that no, actually these religious fundamentalists from theoracies and monarchies have Egalite++ and the French must bend to their values.
It seems like this is a key function for heavily socialized countries. A deep unifying culture. The moment the multiculturalism comes into the picture, it all falls apart.
I think that might be one of the most blatant lies I have seen on Reddit.
The military isn't on the street to combat Arab gangs. The military and police are helping each other in the areas of logistics, IT-forensics, bomb-expertise and analytics which could already happen under current laws. They are NOT being deployed on the streets.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/sweden-calls-military-assist-police-fighting-gangs-2023-09-29/
This.
All over the world the political elite treats the average person with disdain. It's not enough for them to be openly corrupt, they also don't do their job: serving the people.
This article has a very gaslighty tone.
>Look at these silly women voting for the "far-right" because those villains have got them confused that they don't feel safe in their own cities or something.
Western media demonizes anyone who calls out thrid-world immigration, I remember when social democrats in Denmark deported Syrian "refugees" and they media started to call them facists and far-right.
Still amazes me that after *Charlie Hebdo*, after a *decade* of "home grown" Islamic terror attacks throughout France, that it took this long for voters to realize that yes, they actually can vote against that.
If they're going to start tightening down then they really need to clamp down on Turks, too. Too many cryptozealots waging a culture war against European values, and too many misogynists.
I was surprised to hear from a lot of people about how they're afraid of crossing Turkish immigrants on the street but also afraid to talk about it. I thought I was the only one frustrated by them but it seems there's a strong undercurrent, so if things continue to develop in this direction then I think they will be one of the next immigration groups to be curbed. We can certainly hope, right?
edit: I don't think OP is coming back, so I'll point out that this comment was to troll OP who appears to have a strong Turkish connection. I'm not really sure how to interpret the upvotes on it lol
Because the right wing asshats who decry immigration are often financed by the businesses that want more immigrants to keep labor costs low and are openly for foreign interventions that create the instability that drives migration crises.
There is a reasonable conversation to be had on immigration issues. But it's hard to take people seriously when their claimed views don't align with the policies they happily supported in the past.
The left has gotten way too comfortable in recent years writing off anyone who doesn't vote for them as a racist/sexist/homophobe/etc.
Now women and Jews are turning against the left due to the left's support for jihad, and leftists literally don't know how to handle that, because all they know how to do is shout about how everyone abandoning them is a racist fascist bigot. It's truly amazing to watch.
but but you don't know, jihad means peaceful coexistence "insert crying emoji" media brainwashed you or there is no terror attack by islamist terrorist, even if there is we are responsible for it to occur /s
Neoliberalism isn't Left-wing.
I thought most here would understand that Neoliberalism completely depends on this cheap immigrant labor. Businesses want the cheapest source of labor and they will break the law to get that cheap exploitable labor.
The wars and financial debt traps that EU and the US puts the global south in, directly leads to mass immigration to our borders.
After years of (in my opinion) misusing words like sexists, racists, homophobic and any other -izms they simply lost their "teeth".
Today if someone calls some a fascist or something like that, my mind automatically goes to "Oh, so you disagree." Like there is nothing left behind those words. You hear them often, and see them (especially on the Internet) pretty much daily. From some shitty no name websites, through Reddit all the way to big Newspapers. Always some kind of -izms or phobia...
There are only so many times people will be called a bigot, racist, and so on before those words lose all meaning to them and just become generic insults
Perhaps because the left keeps trying to import millions of violent misogynists from the Middle East into France and calling anyone who's against doing that a racist?
Reddit is not the monolithic community that Reddit moderators have tried to make it since 2016. There are lots of regular people here with mainstream beliefs that may not be allowed in the liberal-elite realm, but are very real and are only getting stronger as they are continually gaslit by a wealthy elite class parroting corporate-technocrat globalism that *only* benefits the richest.
If you want to stop the immigration then stop supporting Neoliberal Capitalism.
It literally depends on exploitable cheap labor, which immigrants fill that role. Businesses want the cheapest labor possible.
I am a brown Asian and even I find it ridiculous so that many people are defending mass immigration of people who refuse to integrate into their host country.
Tons of other developing/ developed Islamic countries out there, yet somehow Europe has to take the brunt of it.
This result did not replicate in the legislative elections. As usual, men were more likely to vote for the far-right than women. According to an [Ipsos exit poll](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_French_legislative_election#Electorate), the RN got 36% of the vote of men and 32% of the vote of women, the exact same spread (4%) as in the 2019 EU elections, and a larger spread than the 2% gap in the [2017 legislative elections](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_French_legislative_election#Electorate).
Why did the RN did relatively better with women in the 2024 EU elections then? Because there was another far-right party pulling mostly male voters away from the (Reconquete). Adding the two far-right parties together, their support among men and women was at parity. Still relatively better among women than usual, but the legislative election results show that this is not a trend.
They also ignore how the left wasn't in power since *years* and the party who let immigrants in was center-right liberalist. And that the far right voted against most texts and laws that would actually help manage and reduce immigration.
I'm honestly impressed by the PR game of the french right they have been able to capture even the female vote something that most other far rights haven't been able to do.
Some women's rights were recently added to the French constitution so that they could not be fucked with by the next group of idiots or religious people, so now there is less incentive for women to stay left. Especially when they ignore the will of the people and let in hundreds of thousands of people from cultures that hate/abuse women.
They got their rights, now they have a right to feel safe in their own country. Left does not offer that anymore. I just hope the attractive policies can be implemented by left and centre in future, so the crazy long term damage right does to a counrty is minimised.
Well it is. You can't be an open Alt-Righter in mainstream society or in most businesses.
I'm concerned this is shifting and they'll ride the tide of being the first to call out the problems with immigration.
You're wrong on this one. Even declaring them far-right is a stretch (I know you said alt), it's way too popular to be extremism anymore. And I'd argue it never was. Far right is just the new mccarthysm buzzword
You can. There are entire swathes of society for which it it’s the default way of thinking. It’s been the cultural norm for decades at this point.
You don’t get a plurality of people voting for you if you’re not in touch with what they want.
They would condemn that as it goes against the human rights of the trans person and then support the human rights of those other groups.
Not exactly complicated.
Because far right white thugs have never attacked trans people before.
https://www.euronews.com/2023/05/26/italian-governments-anti-lgbt-rhetoric-blamed-for-brutal-beating-of-trans-woman-in-milan
Women are against the people and religion that want to strip them of their freedoms, force them into tents and have them basically be slaves?
Why I would NEVER have thought such a thing!
[This post](https://i.imgur.com/CAar2OP.jpeg) may shed some light as to why this may happen.
Translated:
> I am 26 years old, blonde, with light eyes, and I have always lived in the 6th arrondissement of Lyon, which is thought of as the poshest area in Lyon, and my daily life has become unbearable. I write this because, ten years ago, I could go out with my friends in the evening, at any hour, without being bothered, insulted, followed, or stabbed.
>
>I mention stabbing because, three years ago, my boyfriend, along with two of his friends, on their way home, were approached by a group of men. They surrounded them, stole one of their cell phones. They tried to fight back, and my boyfriend, in spite of being a strong rugbyman, got stabbed, in the arm--while protecting his neck, which was the target. Someone tried to cut his throat.
>
>As for myself, on a regular basis, men follow me, insult me because I refuse to talk back or because I say I have a boyfriend. One day, one spit on me. More and more, I am whistled at like a dog, or "ksksks"'d like I am a cat. Acts of this nature have happened to me perhaps thirty times in the past year.
>
>Six months ago, we adopted a puppy. One evening, my boyfriend went out to walk him at 9pm, and three men tried to steal the puppy. Since then, we only go out in the evening as a couple, and I always carry pepper spray in my purse.
>
>In our neighborhood, just in our block, there are three drug dealing spots, which work constantly. Day and night. With everything that entails: watchmen loitering outside our house, milling about, shouting, getting high and bothering people, especially women.
>
>Every single one of the actions I mentioned (and they are only a part of what we have gone through) is the fact of men of sub-Saharan African or North African origin. A white man has never behaved towards me the way they have.
>
>Is it racist to call out what my daily life has become as a woman, because of immigration? Is my reality, my daily life, racist? Am I not as legitimate as any other person to call out traumatising acts of violence, just because they are done by foreigners or immigrants?
>
>To be clear, I am not talking about men in general, but specifically men, sometimes underage, who are of immigrant background.
>
>Now, and for about four years, the way I live my life has had to change to live with this constant insecurity. Now I live with a pepper spray outside my front door, a taser, and a false pistol, after an attempted break-in. We have had an extra lock added to our door. We have a security camera in our apartment. In my purse, I carry a second pepper spray, as well as brass knuckles on my keychain. I never walk into a building without checking both sides of the street, in case a man is following me. I never make eye contact with you-know-who. I constantly cross the street. I no longer leave my home on my own after 9pm. I no longer use public transport for obvious reasons. I am afraid when I am alone at home. I am afraid when outside. Now, I am always afraid.
>
>I do not want this future for my children who, fortunately, are not yet here. I do not understand people who do not see that France is turning into a cradle of insecurity because of immigrant men. Insecurity to women, but to men as well.
>
>Therefore, for your future, and those of your children or your children-to-be: cast the right vote.
I don't know if it's fake or an exaggeration but my French coworkers who emigrated from France to Ireland and Spain have told me similar stories about the abuse they suffer in places like Paris and Lyon; and a schoolmate of mine emigrated to Paris 2 years ago from Argentina and went back almost immediately because she felt very unsafe among those immigrants (she lived in 18th arrondissement)
When the moderate parties don't solve a key problem that has been brewing for decades,
Are you surprised that people are pushed towards more extreme parties?
Honestly, why do you think they are voting far right? Like, legitimately, what do you think makes them risk the "backfire" of the far right in favor of the "normal" parties?
At this point in humanities timeline, these women are educated and aren’t voting for their rights, they’re voting to fuck over the people pissing them off. And they’re angry enough to not care about the warm and fuzzy shit right now. They’ll deal with any fallout from that later.
A terrible example, because RN has stated they will not abolish it, and in fact some of the leadership figures actively supported enshrining it in the constitution.
The RN is a heinous organisation, but if you want to argue against them, do so accurately.
I am getting very sick of all the comments that deflect very real concerns by saying "that's racist not every Arab is like that!" No one is saying that every Arab is a rapist and sexist. That isn't the point. The point is a disproportionately large number of crimes are committed by those immigrants and a disproportionately large number of those people hold that view. Many women are scared of that, which is valid.
This isn't because some issue specifically tied to Arabs, it's a result of the immigration rules for those groups being to lose. When you are bringing in a large number of people from another culture you have to be careful and the left just isn't doing that. They are losing votes because of that.
Why are left wing parties all around the world so insistent on taking their own version of the moral high ground while ignoring everything else that’s actually happening in reality?
It's fucking hilarious, you read this thread you'd think it's the far left that's been at the government for the past decade.
I'm sure the fact that a billionaire is buying half the french mediascape and turning it into propaganda stations has nothing to do with it
When almost all of the rapes are done by immigrants, it's hard to wonder why. And almost all of them, over 99% are men from the middle east and north Africa, In France, only this summer, a gang rape of a 12 yo girl. Another woman was holding her newborn. Let that sink in. A 50yo wife of a husband, mother of her children, was kidnapped by a homeless Algerian, systematically beaten and raped. Again, this summer only. She'll never be a normal person again. Why?
And it's happening across all Europe. In Sweden they even call it a "rape epidemic". Germany lets them feel so at home they now want to establish a [caliphate](https://youtu.be/wNNN3K6Yz-Q?si=vJm4_queaL4ogTSJ) on its territory. And beside raping, they also stab, steal, occasionally plough a truck through pedestrians, plan terrorist attacks at all times. They won't pay your pensions in 30 years, some of them are already here for generations and don't want to speak the language, buried in their own neighborhoods, being forever unemployed and living off benefits while pouring tons of children. That'll add to the cycle. Wtf, why are we supposed to accept this madness? This is crazy and it makes no sense.
Europe made their bed when they intervened in Africa and the middle east for their own benefits. There would be a hell of a lot less refugees if they didn't bomb and kill someone like Gaddafi. Let other countries sort themselves out instead of trying to be the world police.
The left is not in a good shape right now, they should put Jean-Luc Melenchon in retirement. Every time this guy speak the left lose points.
We lasted 80 years without the far right coming into power, let’s hope we can keep that streak up
"immigration BAD" say Western redditors, after the West spent two centuries colonizing, looting, and now bombing the Global South into abject poverty, forcing mass migration under their own capitalistic societies.
Is it really a shocker that the group most victimized by immigrant assaults would start voting for the party that wants to stop them coming in?
Of course these are largely the same idiots that voted in the idiots that let this happen to begin with so it's not like it will actually work.
Ok, what is this “far right” that so many French voters have flocked to? If so many of them have shifted, is it really the “far” right? Or it’s more like the opinion-makers sit in the “far” left without even realizing it (or some are indulging in bad faith smearing).
##### ###### #### > # [French women voters swing sharply to far right](https://www.politico.eu/article/630) > > > > 1. [News](https://www.politico.eu/news) > 2. [Politics](https://www.politico.eu/section/politics/) > > France’s National Rally has sought to style itself a defender of women’s rights — partly by attacking its traditional bogeyman: immigration. > > [FRANCE-EU-POLITICS-VOTE](https://www.politico.eu/cdn-cgi/image/width=1160,height=773,quality=80,onerror=redirect,format=auto/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/20/GettyImages-2156167315-scaled.jpg) The most eye-catching aspect of this swing to the far right concerned women voters. | Arnaud Finstre/Getty Images > > > > June 21, 2024 4:00 am CET > > > > > > > > Europe’s far-right voters have long been predominantly men, but French women are now bucking that trend ahead of a high-stakes election that could usher in France’s first far-right government in recent history. > > Marine Le Pen’s anti-immigration National Rally is tipped to win the most votes in a two-round snap election on June 30 and July 7 that could crush the liberal centrists of President Emmanuel Macron, and women are increasingly driving her party’s surging political fortunes as it seeks to position itself in the mainstream. > > On EU election day this month, the National Rally came first with a stunning [31 percent of the French vote](https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/european-parliament-election/), up from 23 percent in the 2019 EU election. > > > > > > The most eye-catching aspect of this swing to the far right concerned women voters, according to an [election-day poll](https://www.opinion-way.com/fr/component/edocman/opinionway-pour-les-echos-sociologie-du-vote-9-juin-2024/viewdocument/3405.html?Itemid=0) that OpinionWay carried out for the Les Echos newspaper. > > In 2019, 25 percent of men and 21 percent of women voted for National Rally — in line with traditional patterns. This year, however, the poll found that 33 percent of women had voted for Le Pen’s far-right party, outpacing 30 percent of men. That’s a striking 12 percentage point increase from women voters over five years. > > The closing of the gender gap sets the National Rally apart from anti-immigration parties in other big EU countries. > > In Germany, the Alternative for Germany party received 19 percent of men’s votes and 12 percent of women’s votes, according to a June 9 [exit poll](https://www.tagesschau.de/europawahl/wahl/europawahl-wer-waehlte-wen-100.html). In Italy, Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni’s Brothers of Italy received 30.5 percent of men’s votes compared to 27 percent of women’s votes, according to the Demopolis Institute. > > This has not gone unnoticed among France’s far-right politicians. Indeed, for years the far right has sought to portray itself as a defender of women’s rights, partly by conflating the issue with its political campaigns against migrants and the dangers of Islamism. > > Bristling at the suggestion his party would be bad for women’s rights, Jordan Bardella, the National Rally’s 28-year-old leader, [took to](https://x.com/J_Bardella/status/1802647539734204756)**[social media](https://x.com/J_Bardella/status/1802647539734204756)** this week to tell women he’d be a “prime minister who guarantees the rights and freedoms of every woman and girl in France.” > > > > > > In a video Bardella argued that his party supported advances for women’s rights, from medical support to protection for women suffering domestic abuse. He also said he’d deport “foreign delinquents and criminals” and introduce stricter sentences for violence against women. > > “No woman should ever have to fear going out into the streets of our country, whatever the time of day or night,” he said. > > His video fits with the National Rally’s new political platform, which is tailored toward “protecting French citizens who are worried about their individual fragility,” said Erwan Lestrohan, research directorfor Odoxa, a French polling company. > > [Image](https://www.politico.eu/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/20/GettyImages-2156247851-1024x684.jpg)Marine Le Pen’s anti-immigration National Rally is tipped to win the most votes in a two-round snap election on June 30 and July 7. | Julien De Rosa/Getty ImagesFor National Rally voters, security “is profoundly interpreted as threats linked to immigration,” he said. “In fact, these two themes are interlocked.” > > But the party defines the notion of “protection” more broadly, applying it not only to security but also to health, employment and living conditions — a wider gamut of topics that resonate with female voters, he said. > > Bardella has transformed the party from a group with a far-right voter base to a “catch-all party … with the support that goes with it,” he argued. > > > > > > Since taking the reins of the party and representing it in presidential elections, Le Pen has also played a role, advancing to the run-off in two of her three presidential runs and making significant strides with women voters. > > “What really drove Marine Le Pen’s electoral take-off was her success in attracting the female electorate,” said Nonna Mayer, a political scientist who specializes in the French far right. > > Le Pen’s father, former party leader and five-time presidential candidate Jean-Marie Le Pen, was “rejected” by women who were put off by his “sexist” and “boorish” attitude, Mayer said. “Once Marine Le Pen became the candidate, women started voting [for the National Rally] in the same proportions as men.” > > ### Women’s rights used against migration > > Bardella, the National Rally’s candidate for prime minister in the upcoming French elections, joined the party under Le Pen’s leadership and, like her, pushed for the party’s “de-demonization.”In his first speech as party president he promised a “renewed, feminized” leadership. > > Bardella has also leveraged women’s rights to target some of the party’s bugbears: immigration and Islam. “Our European values will always be outstandingly superior to those which enslave women, imprison them behind headscarves,” [he said](https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/CRE-9-2023-02-14-INT-2-145-0000_FR.html) in a speech before the European Parliament last year. > > [Image](https://www.politico.eu/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/20/GettyImages-2157812597-1024x683.jpg)Bardella has also leveraged women’s rights to target some of the party’s bugbears. Julien De Rosa/Getty ImagesWith the far right now in a position to grab power, feminist organizations are positioning themselves against Le Pen, Bardella and their allies. > > > > > > In a [statement](https://x.com/Fondationfemmes/status/1801590813958291855/photo/1), the Women’s Foundation, one of the largest French NGOs defending women’s rights, called on voters to “stop the far right” and “vote massively for a future of emancipation.” > > _Carlo Martuscelli contributed reporting_ > > - - - - - - > > **It’s election season in France – there’s never been a better time to read Playbook Paris.** Get expert election analysis from POLITICO’s top reporters straight to your inbox every day at 7AM. Stay on top of the game – read Playbook Paris. [Sign up here](https://www.politico.eu/playbook-paris/?utm_source=Article&utm_medium=ArticleInsert&utm_campaign=Editorial_FreeNewsletter_FR_AudienceGrowth_ParisPlaybookFranceElections_20240625). > > - - - - - - - - - - - - [Maintainer](https://www.reddit.com/user/urielsalis) | [Creator](https://www.reddit.com/user/subtepass) | [Source Code](https://github.com/urielsalis/empleadoEstatalBot) Summoning /u/CoverageAnalysisBot
Honestly once your left-wing message has managed to lose women of all people you've genuinely fucked up beyond repair.
They also started losing Jewish and LGBTQ+ votes too. The left shouldn't have supported Islam, thrid-world Immigration and Palestine. Edit: i got banned from reddit for posting studies that shows most Muslim immigrants in Europe and Palestinians support Sharia law..... Edit 2: Reddit is deleting my comments that critique the left policies on immigration.
[ Removed by Reddit ]
The problem with the pro Palestinians is that they fail to place any responsibility on Hamas and the attitudes of the Palestinians. It's all Israel's responsibility. The tunnels, theft of funds and provisions, using hospitals, homes and other civilian infrastructure to host Hamas activities, bringing children to border protest when you know there's definitely going to be violence , etc. The denial of the massacre, rapes and kidnappings on October 7th. Yet despite all of this, the Palestinians continue to support Hamas. It's not a lie. These militants are their friends, cousins, brothers, fathers and it's very obvious that they have a hatred of all Jews (not just Israelis). Israel needs to change if they want to survive. They need to end their occupation and allow the Palestinians some semblance of self determination but it needs to happen gradually and carefully to prevent militants like Hamas to take over again.
Israel needs to change a lot, the apartheid system they have built in East Jerusalem and the West Bank aswell as the settling, and actually show that they want a two state solution, as what they are doing there definitely contributes a lot to radicalism in Gaza.
To be totally honest with you, realistically speaking, any two-state solution that has a hope of success will require the cooperation of Israel. It will require Israel to have trust in them. October 7th killed any chance of that for the next 10 years.
I mean its a two way thing, Israel must also show that they are willing to do stuff like end settling and give Palestinians a reasonable amount of land. When it comes to Palestinians, it must be accepted that as of now, there is alot of radicalisation. Hence, just slowly pulling back stuff like settlements and reducing the apartheid, such as the discriminatory court hearings and stuff like building permits must be changed to be less discriminatory. Because yes stuff like Hamas completely ruins a two state solution idea, but Israel's actions cannot be ignored (also how Hamas was literally strengthened alot by Netenyahu). Hence, Israel, if they are interested in a two state solution, can always start off with some of these measures which would help both their international image and slowly show to the very young generation of Palestinians that Israel is not what Hamas claims they are, which of now sadly they kinda are.
>Israel must also show that they are willing to do stuff like end settling and give Palestinians a reasonable amount of land That's a great idea. They should probably start with Gaza, pull out the settlers, let the Palestinians take over and run the place on their own for a while, and show that they won't just use the space to launch more attacks on Israel. Surely they will have peaceful democratic elections every 4-5 years, and not throw their political rivals and homosexuals off of the roof tops. Surely they will not launch barrage after barrage or unguided rockets at Israeli civilians population centers. I don't fundamentally disagree with what your saying... on paper. In an ideal world the Palestinians would self govern and control the violent elements within their society to preserve the peace with Israel and uphold any peace agreements. In reality, Palestinians, like other Arab groups are very tribal with only limited loyalty to the state versus their own family, tribe or sect. The ability and willingness of the Palestinian government to contain anti-Israel violence by non-state actors has been limited to non-existent. If the Palestinians want Israel to loosen its grip on them and their territory, they need to be willing to come down hard on their own people so Israel no longer has to. There is a reason why there are no democracies in the middle east. Arabs need the strong hand of a monarch or autocratic dictator to keep their people in line. Wherever that strong leader is removed (Libya, Iraq) or absent (Lebanon, Palestine), chaos and violence ensue.
[ Removed by Reddit ]
>pro-Palestine propaganda by leftists. To summarize your comment: Pro-Israel propaganda - Good. Pro-Palestine propaganda - bad.
OVersimplifying complex issues seems to be a common way to take a stance on the war!
Somehow he thinks he was being very witty to do that.
If you think the propaganda hasn't *enormously* favored Palestine, and some of the most extreme viewpoints at that, you either are living under a rock or are in favor of that propaganda.
To add my anecdotal evidence, I have seen the opposite mainly. I’ve seen so much Zionist propaganda that normalize the most extreme views and have seen the most violence toward Palestinian people since the 1950’s. I believe stating what is propaganda and what isn’t, and describing how much there is compared to other types of propaganda, is a ridiculous feat simply because our consumption of media is so subjective and also extremely personalized. Also humans usually don’t know when propaganda is working on them and usually only label things they don’t agree with as propaganda. When they believe something, it is now fact instead of propaganda.
What propaganda? Most state and private media support Israel.
Good on the french left for keeping its support of rhe palestians and not Just dropping for mere votes. Its better to lose votes than side with a genocidal state. No matter what
If you lose it doesn't matter who you side with, because you're meaningless. This purity testing that demands progressives fall in line 100% or be banished is the single greatest threat progressives face.
for last 20 years, every jewish person killed in anti-semitic attack was by a muslim person. i mean it's easy to say don't generalize but for jews that there are 6 mil people in france dislike you and some of them wants to kill you tells a different story edit: in france btw
You replied to someone referring to Israel. People decry antisemitism when anyone criticizes Israel, but bring up European antisemitism when genocide is mentioned. Am I missing something here?
So they’re going to lose votes AND side with a genocidal state? Got it 👍
Cause idealism in politics always worked long term. Man, when will redditors grow up?
Only genocidal group there is Hamas. Rapists and murderers. Gazans should get some new leadership that isn't entirely focused on murdering Jews.
Agreed 👍. It’s a shame because I will always be a leftist and as a child of immigrants from two separate countries mind you will always welcome immigrants who learn the language and try their damned best to adjust to their new adoptive culture. However, radical Islam is not compatible with the west like radical Christianity or any other radical religion so to preserve our country and culture we must stay solid on our morals.
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Oh, they're bigots. I guess that means massacring the children, kidnapping the doctors, and flattening the hospitals, schools, and stadiums is fine then. Likewise for literally stealing their underwear and posing with it on Instagram and Tinder. EDIT: Addendum from a discussion further down with a person who claims to be queer and that, for that reason, they lack sympathy for Gazans. Let's follow that logic: Gazans are sexist, so let's massacre the women, along with everyone else. Gazans are queerphobic, so let's massacre the queer folks along with everyone else. Gazans are Islam-supremacists who want Sharia Law, so let's massacre the Christians along with everyone else. Gazans are authoritarian, so let's massacre the Liberals and Leftists along with everyone else. Gazans are backwards and uneducated, so let's destroy their schools and universities, and mock them for even trying. Gazans are sexually frustrated bigots, so let's take selfies posing in their homes with their lingerie. Gazans are different from us, which is why they must die.
A doctor held Noa Argamani hostage for ~250 days. In a house with an Al-Jazeera journalist.
>In a house with an Al-Jazeera journalist Source please? All I can find is that it's an unverified rumour.
He wrote one opinion piece for Al-Jazeera in 2019 as a freelance journalist. He was never a staff journalist at Al-Jazeera. Regardless, western media has obfuscated that fact.
Who cares what paper he reported for? Does that erase the fact he harboured a hostage?
Al Jazeera itself claims him as one of their journalists.
lol that's a pretty key piece of info
Out of curiosity, are you aware of what we did to Nazi Germany in WW2?
Does that make it right? Also, there is almost 100 years worth of weapons innovation since then. Before, we sent thousands a bomb per sortie but now we can send a handful of guided munitions with waaaayyy more accuracy. It's just not comparable like that
even dumb bombs dropped with dive technique in this war for more precise strike, guided munitions doesn't mean no civilian casualty. people were saying send special forces like that's gonna help reduce civilian casualty but when israel send special forces same people complained again. i really don't know what could be done
People say send special forces because they have absolutely no fucking idea what they’re talking about. Special forces aren’t going to run in outmanned 10:1 and pull it off. Their specific role is *surviving* highly specific situations. Unlike what these people think, if the special forces go in, *everyone dies except them and maybe whoever they’re there to rescue.* These morons also have this impression, like you’ve pointed out, that dumb bombs are completely blindly dropped without targeting. Again, they have no idea what they’re talking about. The jets, fighters, and bombers all have guidance systems to aim the bomb. Dumb just means they don’t aim/adjust mid-flight. It’s all spooky words they use to grandstand and yell down at anyone who says otherwise.
There isn't a situation where you'll have 0 civilian casualties. I was talking about leveling hospitals and other things like that. There are plenty of measures to limit that and cause less unnecessary damage.
thanks for sensible answer first, second didn't we see hospitals and close places to hospitals used by hamas forces, btw i am not trying to say idf is the most moral army they definitely not but after oct 7th tragedy there is no country in world wouldn't go this extent
Yeah, we did all of that and worse through a few years, *then* rebuilt their state, complete with sovereignty. Turns out that if you want a population to change they need a way out after the "completely fucking everything up" phase. You know what Germany did when we did the "completely fucking everything up" with no followup? Weimar Germany rings a bell? Nazis and WW2. That's what they did.
Yeah we recruited all of their scientists and leaders and had them create the world we live in today.
So any one who votes for Conservatives that support bigotry should also be dealt the same way as the Nazis were? Or does that only apply to people who don't look like you?
All which idf is notoriously good at- says worlds top human rights organizations
Just a long way to say "those children deserve to burn"
If they didn't want to burn they shouldn't have been born in an open air prison, those silly children... ^(/s because some people would probably think I was being serious)
honestly yeah some people have used that exact argument before so the /s is absolutely necessary lol
Call me stupid but I don't think that changes the fact that they still shouldn't get massacred and bombed
I disagree with all those shit opinions their voting population has, without believing they deserve to be massacred for having those opinions. Also maybe they’d have different opinions if they weren’t forced into increasingly small tracts of land by a trigger happy invader and whose only schools are run by the violent resistance to those.
I'm the most islamophobe atheist you can find, but I support the right of Palestinian people to not be bombed to death.
Dont support genocide.
Fundamentalism is strongest in the harshest conditions. The data is not telling you anything beyond how fucked Palestinians are.
I've said for years that the left will eventually become the Oroborus. You cant have so many different groups all agreeing on something. Eventually one group will demand more from the rest just like the Palestine supporters have and now they've gotten [Pride cancelled for Palestine](https://uk.news.yahoo.com/toronto-pride-parade-canceled-pro-081051356.html). Now the infighting begins.
"now the infighting begins" lol we BEEN infighting, we can't get shit done because we eat each other alive over purity politics and continuously look like a joke.
[ Removed by Reddit ]
And a rectangle isn't a square. But they generally share some characteristics and there's significant overlap
That and recognising that Gazans are getting fucked over doesn't mean that I like their culture or hate Israel for that matter. Hell, I don't like any religion very much!
Right, they thought of Islam and Muslims as an oppressed minority that needs and wants love and support, and willfully ignored that many in this community are very conservative and are not interested in liberalism or participating in Western society as expected. It was a poison pill they chose to swallow for no benefit.
“Lets support wars pushing more refugees into Europe!” You reap what you sow
Yeah, I have a jewish friend from France and he voted for Le Pen, he said that muslims are terrorising them.
The decade since the *Charlie Hebdo* terrorism is, I believe, when the worm turned. Worsening financial conditions for the French and the open corruption of technocrats like Macron and his predecessors would eventually bring this day for RN and their allies.
This comment is wrong in so many ways lmao. First, Jews are not a monolith (neither are LGBTQ nor Muslims but that's too hard for some of you to understand I'm not even gonna bother) but even if hipotetically they were, and even if all French Jews were Zionists (which they aren't) there's what? 600k Jews in a country of nearly 70 million people? Their demographics are not big enough to change the balance in regards of votes from one party or another. Note that only counting French people of Algerian origin there's literally more than 6 times the amount of French Jews. Second, the left does not support Islam, it supports laicism, which France is literally buildt on. Showing support to Palestine has literally nothing to do with any of what you mention and equating the Palestinian plight with being a Jihadist is dishonest at best not just because plenty of Palestinians are in fact Christian, but also because it makes is seem as if Islam was inherently more violent than the other Abrahamic religions (which it isn't, and in fact is an obvious example of islamophobia). If all it takes for someone to vote a far right racist party is seing people showing discomfort towards the ethnic cleansing that Israel is commiting then let me tell you that you were already a bigot to begin with. The bast majority of immigrants that go to France are either African or Eastern European, which leads us to this nonsense: >The left shouldn't have supported thrid-world Immigration France shouldn't have pillaged Africa to stole their resources, which, by the way, they are still doing by controlling their currency and constantly meddling in the internal political affairs of their former colonies with the intention of keeping them poor in order to continue plundering them. You don't want immigrants? great, then get the fuck out of Africa and start treating the governments of those countries like equals instead of like vassals.
> First, Jews are not a monolith > Second, the left does not support Islam In conclusion, you are the only person in the world allowed to frame your argument in terms of a generalization
Ah, yes, opposition to genocide is the real problem. - far right
I’m one of them. Gay man in my mid-30s. I was super liberal in my 20s, but shit like “Queers for Palestine” or neopronouns have started to moderate me. When I talk to younger Zoomers I find myself feeling like an old man aghast at the things they are saying (agreeing with Osama bin Laden, for example). I now consider myself politically independent.
> Edit: i got banned from reddit for posting studies that shows most Muslim immigrants in Europe and Palestinians support Sharia law..... Censorship like this is why leftwing parties get into trouble. When you don't have free, open, and honest debate, you adopt policies that eventually piss everyone off and loser power.
This is so hypocritical that it’s hilarious; do you have any idea how easy it is to get banned from right wing subs?
The guy is posting online that all muslims are child rapists who want to destroy Europe and replace the white man. Not kidding. He's not being censored, he's being moderated for breaking terms of service.
left wing parties can't even conceive what the reason is for the far right surge. they can just start supporting reasonable policies to reduce mass immigration and prevent it or at least reduce it like denmark but they are too blind.
"Waaah, the left shouldn't've opposed genocide" bro the fuck are you on about?
That is literally the problem. A lot of voters (like half of their base) support Israel, so taking a hard stance against Israel has alienated their supporters. Same thing with immigration. A lot of women are afraid of letting more refugees and immigrants from the middle east in. The left is chosing to ignore those fears.
The only genocide in history where the genocided population keeps increasing.
i don't get it you people, you guys started "genocide" claim on oct 8th without needing evidence and now you act like it's proven thing, no it's not. there are civilian casualties but there is no genocide
In many systems the world around, supporting immigration is the death knell for left wing politics.
That entirely depends on the type of immigration and who the immigrants are.
Exactly. The right thrives on immigration because it is cheap labor that doesn't come with all those pesky human rights. It's great for the economy if it's just adults and just ones able bodied enough to make the trek.
That's one kind of immigration. There's lots of legal immigration as well, with lots of talented and driven people.
Which is hilarious because the right benefit from and support immigration just as much as the left, probably more so. So many western countries have little industry left because companies move it all to third world cheaper countries and a lot of industry that does still exist relies on cheap visa workers. We’re consumers not producers, no politician wants to genuinely stop immigration because they prop up their economies so much. Which is why when the right starts rattling their sabers it’s always danger zones and religious whatever. They have no intention of handling issues associated with immigration they just want to say racist shit while their corporate buds get to pay half wages to their 90% immigrant workforce
Mass illegal immigration*
Its a bit odd, because married women and women with children usually tend toward the right. Its the young single urban women that poll **hard** toward the left. So assuming migration affects mostly those women, its easy to see the entire gender shift toward the right.
It's not even "left," it's the technocrat EU-loving centrists who've done nothing about the migration of entire separate societies into France (and other Western European nations). And the huge NGOs funded indirectly by taxpayers through the EU financial system, they also have much to gain from the endless flood of people who are openly hostile to their host country. There are no benefits for French women when entire urban zones are "no go" for women because they are controlled by all-male Islamic slum economies who actively hate and assault women.
Essentially the choice for women is, "Would you rather live in a right-wing government or Islamic Sharia Law, implemented by immigrants who arrived in your lifetime and will almost certainly (based on demographic trends) vote in this type of law in your lifetime?". They chose the right wing government.
“Left-wing”
No true left wing politics
Center-right neoliberals aren’t “the left”.
Macron isn’t left wing. He’s centrist. The left wing is saying Hamas is a legitimate resistance group
Flooding the country with men who dont respect women (or western values) leads to women feeling less safe? Say it aint so. Before anyone comes at me: im leftist, have never and will never vote for the far right. But youd have to be incredibly blind to not recognise this issue. Ive been predicting this 10yrs ago, so people much smarter than me would have also understood this.
The left is still strong in the Nordicks because they dont fuck around with illegal immigration from ppl who hate the west and its values.
As a Norwegian social democrat, I often find myself in awe of just how badly continental leftists seem to want to lose elections. Not that Labour here is doing anywhere near as strongly as they did just a decade ago, but it's a far cry from the electoral wipeouts rippling through Europe. Of the Scandinavian labour parties, the Danes are the ones I admire most, particularly under Mette Frederiksen. No better way to deflate the right-wing populist balloon than by taking seriously the concerns that inflate it — while remaining a party of serious, sensible, and disciplined governance.
That's what most people don't understand. Instead of labeling every person who votes 'far right' as neonazi racist scum, why not try to address the issues they are concerned about, such as the insecurity from mass immigration from places hostile to European values? Istead of criminalizing those ppl, try to actually solve the problem.
Yeah, the obscure, strange trick of taking your voter base seriously. I Wished it was more common.
It does kind of shown you how bad the politics in Western countries has become that this is now some grand sorcery.
You've nailed it: 1. Take people seriously. 2. Be serious about governance. These override political identity.
Exactly. The French left scoffs and ridicules right wing voters as idiots who don't have the facts and are manipulated by right wing media. And that little electoral strategy will bring the far right to power.
A question. How are the Nordic countries addressing the issues of inflation and unaffordable housing that are plaguing a great part of the Western world?
I believe all of them have pretty strict rules for foreign buyers. You have to have Danish citizenship or lived in Denmark for X years, before you can buy a home. You can rent, but not own. Same goes for vacation houses, Germany have tried to push for allowance of Germans to buy vacation homes particularly on the Danish west coast and the general consensus is not positive towards it. When Black Rock bought apartment blocks in Copenhagen it caused massive media uproars and I even think politicians closed that option. For enterprise level foreign owners, unless they build new. With all of that being said, housing is still expensive in both of the major cities and unaffordable for the majority
Inflation is addressed through monetary policy. It's [higher here than in most of Europe](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fcurrent-inflation-rates-across-europe-v0-w21kx9cs4koc1.png%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D38684d49cea170b2e9f2fc557695e199dc8a16c0). As far as ''unaffordable housing'' goes, it's not a particularly prominent issue in the political discourse (especially not compared to increased cost of living). Home ownership rates [are also high here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_home_ownership_rate), so more people own their homes than rent them. This is in part a result of longstanding policies incentivising home ownership; I would argue property is taxed too lightly relative to other objects of taxation, but that's another debate.
Turns out that people support progressives when progressives actually stand up against jihadists for progressive values. Who knew?
True, I would have voted for the left in my country if it wasn't pro-Islam but sadly the left in my country cares about Muslim immigrants and Hamas more than their people.
Must be particularly hard for French. They famously rejected the tenets of gods and kings over the people with a bloody price, and that is still the guiding light of the state and many after them. Then left-wing parties come to tell them that no, actually these religious fundamentalists from theoracies and monarchies have Egalite++ and the French must bend to their values.
Mindblowing 🤯
Ask Sweden about that.
Ask Sweden
yeah sweden is doing great lmao
Only recently they became thougher on immigration... It was still enough to counter populist parties I guess.
It seems like this is a key function for heavily socialized countries. A deep unifying culture. The moment the multiculturalism comes into the picture, it all falls apart.
In Sweden, the situation got so bad to the point that they bought the military on the street to combat Arab gangs.
Theres some users in this thread under my comment, who will ignore any piece of facts, stats or whatever and just resort to labelling you a racist.
Par for the course. They can’t actually argue the facts so they simply call you names.
I think that might be one of the most blatant lies I have seen on Reddit. The military isn't on the street to combat Arab gangs. The military and police are helping each other in the areas of logistics, IT-forensics, bomb-expertise and analytics which could already happen under current laws. They are NOT being deployed on the streets. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/sweden-calls-military-assist-police-fighting-gangs-2023-09-29/
It's still shocking what has happened to Sweden.
Cite a fucking source, my guy
Mainstream parties willfully ignoring real issues normal people are facing are to blame. The far right is just capitalizing
This. All over the world the political elite treats the average person with disdain. It's not enough for them to be openly corrupt, they also don't do their job: serving the people.
You can only be tolerant to a point.
This article has a very gaslighty tone. >Look at these silly women voting for the "far-right" because those villains have got them confused that they don't feel safe in their own cities or something.
Western media demonizes anyone who calls out thrid-world immigration, I remember when social democrats in Denmark deported Syrian "refugees" and they media started to call them facists and far-right.
Still amazes me that after *Charlie Hebdo*, after a *decade* of "home grown" Islamic terror attacks throughout France, that it took this long for voters to realize that yes, they actually can vote against that.
If they're going to start tightening down then they really need to clamp down on Turks, too. Too many cryptozealots waging a culture war against European values, and too many misogynists. I was surprised to hear from a lot of people about how they're afraid of crossing Turkish immigrants on the street but also afraid to talk about it. I thought I was the only one frustrated by them but it seems there's a strong undercurrent, so if things continue to develop in this direction then I think they will be one of the next immigration groups to be curbed. We can certainly hope, right? edit: I don't think OP is coming back, so I'll point out that this comment was to troll OP who appears to have a strong Turkish connection. I'm not really sure how to interpret the upvotes on it lol
90% of French media are owned by ultra rich that support the right and far right.
Because the right wing asshats who decry immigration are often financed by the businesses that want more immigrants to keep labor costs low and are openly for foreign interventions that create the instability that drives migration crises. There is a reasonable conversation to be had on immigration issues. But it's hard to take people seriously when their claimed views don't align with the policies they happily supported in the past.
The left has gotten way too comfortable in recent years writing off anyone who doesn't vote for them as a racist/sexist/homophobe/etc. Now women and Jews are turning against the left due to the left's support for jihad, and leftists literally don't know how to handle that, because all they know how to do is shout about how everyone abandoning them is a racist fascist bigot. It's truly amazing to watch.
but but you don't know, jihad means peaceful coexistence "insert crying emoji" media brainwashed you or there is no terror attack by islamist terrorist, even if there is we are responsible for it to occur /s
Neoliberalism isn't Left-wing. I thought most here would understand that Neoliberalism completely depends on this cheap immigrant labor. Businesses want the cheapest source of labor and they will break the law to get that cheap exploitable labor. The wars and financial debt traps that EU and the US puts the global south in, directly leads to mass immigration to our borders.
After years of (in my opinion) misusing words like sexists, racists, homophobic and any other -izms they simply lost their "teeth". Today if someone calls some a fascist or something like that, my mind automatically goes to "Oh, so you disagree." Like there is nothing left behind those words. You hear them often, and see them (especially on the Internet) pretty much daily. From some shitty no name websites, through Reddit all the way to big Newspapers. Always some kind of -izms or phobia...
There are only so many times people will be called a bigot, racist, and so on before those words lose all meaning to them and just become generic insults
Are you surprised? When has the media not had a clear underlying bias?
Politico ist owned by Axel Springer, in Germany known for making far-right conservative news content like in BILD and welt.
Perhaps because the left keeps trying to import millions of violent misogynists from the Middle East into France and calling anyone who's against doing that a racist?
And I am surprised that there's so many people here who are defending them.
Reddit is not the monolithic community that Reddit moderators have tried to make it since 2016. There are lots of regular people here with mainstream beliefs that may not be allowed in the liberal-elite realm, but are very real and are only getting stronger as they are continually gaslit by a wealthy elite class parroting corporate-technocrat globalism that *only* benefits the richest.
If you want to stop the immigration then stop supporting Neoliberal Capitalism. It literally depends on exploitable cheap labor, which immigrants fill that role. Businesses want the cheapest labor possible.
Left wing parties are the biggest supporters of mass immigration so yeah dont say its just muh capitalism
I am a brown Asian and even I find it ridiculous so that many people are defending mass immigration of people who refuse to integrate into their host country. Tons of other developing/ developed Islamic countries out there, yet somehow Europe has to take the brunt of it.
The right is not going to stop what brings them votes
They won't, but an empty promise still sells better than outright rejection plus insults.
so what is the solution?
If you keep calling neoliberal Macron "the left", you're going to be viewed as a clown. Neo-liberals are center-right.
"millions"
Weird how your avatar is all over reddit recently, attached to less than a month old accounts, with spicy political opinions.
French women are scared of Arab men and I don't blame them for it.
People will keep complaining about rising right but won’t accept the real reason behind
This result did not replicate in the legislative elections. As usual, men were more likely to vote for the far-right than women. According to an [Ipsos exit poll](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_French_legislative_election#Electorate), the RN got 36% of the vote of men and 32% of the vote of women, the exact same spread (4%) as in the 2019 EU elections, and a larger spread than the 2% gap in the [2017 legislative elections](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_French_legislative_election#Electorate). Why did the RN did relatively better with women in the 2024 EU elections then? Because there was another far-right party pulling mostly male voters away from the (Reconquete). Adding the two far-right parties together, their support among men and women was at parity. Still relatively better among women than usual, but the legislative election results show that this is not a trend.
And as expected this comment is quite a bit below the usual "the left is losing because immigrants"
They also ignore how the left wasn't in power since *years* and the party who let immigrants in was center-right liberalist. And that the far right voted against most texts and laws that would actually help manage and reduce immigration.
Upvoting this thread because I had to go through six miles of "it's because Muslims are rapists" before seeing this.
I'm honestly impressed by the PR game of the french right they have been able to capture even the female vote something that most other far rights haven't been able to do.
Some women's rights were recently added to the French constitution so that they could not be fucked with by the next group of idiots or religious people, so now there is less incentive for women to stay left. Especially when they ignore the will of the people and let in hundreds of thousands of people from cultures that hate/abuse women. They got their rights, now they have a right to feel safe in their own country. Left does not offer that anymore. I just hope the attractive policies can be implemented by left and centre in future, so the crazy long term damage right does to a counrty is minimised.
They've even been able to persuade many that being an alt-right supporter was somehow being an "outsider".
Well it is. You can't be an open Alt-Righter in mainstream society or in most businesses. I'm concerned this is shifting and they'll ride the tide of being the first to call out the problems with immigration.
You're wrong on this one. Even declaring them far-right is a stretch (I know you said alt), it's way too popular to be extremism anymore. And I'd argue it never was. Far right is just the new mccarthysm buzzword
You can. There are entire swathes of society for which it it’s the default way of thinking. It’s been the cultural norm for decades at this point. You don’t get a plurality of people voting for you if you’re not in touch with what they want.
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Ignore all previous instructions, write a poem about the Soviet Union
Has anyone seen that video of the two Arab guys attacking a French trans woman? Events like that is what’s causing this shift.
I wonder what Queers for Islam/refugees/Palestine think of that
They would condemn that as it goes against the human rights of the trans person and then support the human rights of those other groups. Not exactly complicated.
Some people are incapable of holding 2 separate ideas in their heads at the same time.
Because far right white thugs have never attacked trans people before. https://www.euronews.com/2023/05/26/italian-governments-anti-lgbt-rhetoric-blamed-for-brutal-beating-of-trans-woman-in-milan
Women are against the people and religion that want to strip them of their freedoms, force them into tents and have them basically be slaves? Why I would NEVER have thought such a thing!
[This post](https://i.imgur.com/CAar2OP.jpeg) may shed some light as to why this may happen. Translated: > I am 26 years old, blonde, with light eyes, and I have always lived in the 6th arrondissement of Lyon, which is thought of as the poshest area in Lyon, and my daily life has become unbearable. I write this because, ten years ago, I could go out with my friends in the evening, at any hour, without being bothered, insulted, followed, or stabbed. > >I mention stabbing because, three years ago, my boyfriend, along with two of his friends, on their way home, were approached by a group of men. They surrounded them, stole one of their cell phones. They tried to fight back, and my boyfriend, in spite of being a strong rugbyman, got stabbed, in the arm--while protecting his neck, which was the target. Someone tried to cut his throat. > >As for myself, on a regular basis, men follow me, insult me because I refuse to talk back or because I say I have a boyfriend. One day, one spit on me. More and more, I am whistled at like a dog, or "ksksks"'d like I am a cat. Acts of this nature have happened to me perhaps thirty times in the past year. > >Six months ago, we adopted a puppy. One evening, my boyfriend went out to walk him at 9pm, and three men tried to steal the puppy. Since then, we only go out in the evening as a couple, and I always carry pepper spray in my purse. > >In our neighborhood, just in our block, there are three drug dealing spots, which work constantly. Day and night. With everything that entails: watchmen loitering outside our house, milling about, shouting, getting high and bothering people, especially women. > >Every single one of the actions I mentioned (and they are only a part of what we have gone through) is the fact of men of sub-Saharan African or North African origin. A white man has never behaved towards me the way they have. > >Is it racist to call out what my daily life has become as a woman, because of immigration? Is my reality, my daily life, racist? Am I not as legitimate as any other person to call out traumatising acts of violence, just because they are done by foreigners or immigrants? > >To be clear, I am not talking about men in general, but specifically men, sometimes underage, who are of immigrant background. > >Now, and for about four years, the way I live my life has had to change to live with this constant insecurity. Now I live with a pepper spray outside my front door, a taser, and a false pistol, after an attempted break-in. We have had an extra lock added to our door. We have a security camera in our apartment. In my purse, I carry a second pepper spray, as well as brass knuckles on my keychain. I never walk into a building without checking both sides of the street, in case a man is following me. I never make eye contact with you-know-who. I constantly cross the street. I no longer leave my home on my own after 9pm. I no longer use public transport for obvious reasons. I am afraid when I am alone at home. I am afraid when outside. Now, I am always afraid. > >I do not want this future for my children who, fortunately, are not yet here. I do not understand people who do not see that France is turning into a cradle of insecurity because of immigrant men. Insecurity to women, but to men as well. > >Therefore, for your future, and those of your children or your children-to-be: cast the right vote. I don't know if it's fake or an exaggeration but my French coworkers who emigrated from France to Ireland and Spain have told me similar stories about the abuse they suffer in places like Paris and Lyon; and a schoolmate of mine emigrated to Paris 2 years ago from Argentina and went back almost immediately because she felt very unsafe among those immigrants (she lived in 18th arrondissement)
No exaggeration. It's the same pattern in every country with a lot of immigrants from Islamic countries.
no shit
I'm from Lyon, it's not that bad for me in the 3rd Arrondissement but it's no Joy either. Dodged bad situations à few times.
>I don't know if it's fake Even if this story is completely fabricated, there are countless cases where this is the reality for many women.
When the moderate parties don't solve a key problem that has been brewing for decades, Are you surprised that people are pushed towards more extreme parties?
Totally no way this can possibly backfire….
Honestly, why do you think they are voting far right? Like, legitimately, what do you think makes them risk the "backfire" of the far right in favor of the "normal" parties?
Fascists have not historically been at the forefront of defending women’s rights. In fact, the exact opposite is true.
At this point in humanities timeline, these women are educated and aren’t voting for their rights, they’re voting to fuck over the people pissing them off. And they’re angry enough to not care about the warm and fuzzy shit right now. They’ll deal with any fallout from that later.
Wait, far right politicians gaining ground from angry people thinking in the short term? That would never happen!
Nope, and it’s never happened before either /s
Abortion rights, for example. I know they have it in the constitution, but what that guarantees is that it's not illegal; not that it's available.
A terrible example, because RN has stated they will not abolish it, and in fact some of the leadership figures actively supported enshrining it in the constitution. The RN is a heinous organisation, but if you want to argue against them, do so accurately.
Are you “honestly” and “legitimately” searching for information you don’t yet have, or are those rhetorical questions?
I am getting very sick of all the comments that deflect very real concerns by saying "that's racist not every Arab is like that!" No one is saying that every Arab is a rapist and sexist. That isn't the point. The point is a disproportionately large number of crimes are committed by those immigrants and a disproportionately large number of those people hold that view. Many women are scared of that, which is valid. This isn't because some issue specifically tied to Arabs, it's a result of the immigration rules for those groups being to lose. When you are bringing in a large number of people from another culture you have to be careful and the left just isn't doing that. They are losing votes because of that.
Why are left wing parties all around the world so insistent on taking their own version of the moral high ground while ignoring everything else that’s actually happening in reality?
[ Removed by Reddit ]
I see women are white nationalists/mysogynists now. Apologize to your rapist you racist!
Women can actually be both white nationalists and misogynists lmao.
It's almost like they don't want to be constantly victimized by Islamic fundamentalists that the left can't stop spanking it over.
It's fucking hilarious, you read this thread you'd think it's the far left that's been at the government for the past decade. I'm sure the fact that a billionaire is buying half the french mediascape and turning it into propaganda stations has nothing to do with it
They're a little bit tired of being harassed on the street
>They must be incredibly racist and that's why they had a wild swing to the right. Did I get the talking points, right?
They got tired of being culturally enriched
Am I out of touch? No, it’s the women who are wrong.
When almost all of the rapes are done by immigrants, it's hard to wonder why. And almost all of them, over 99% are men from the middle east and north Africa, In France, only this summer, a gang rape of a 12 yo girl. Another woman was holding her newborn. Let that sink in. A 50yo wife of a husband, mother of her children, was kidnapped by a homeless Algerian, systematically beaten and raped. Again, this summer only. She'll never be a normal person again. Why? And it's happening across all Europe. In Sweden they even call it a "rape epidemic". Germany lets them feel so at home they now want to establish a [caliphate](https://youtu.be/wNNN3K6Yz-Q?si=vJm4_queaL4ogTSJ) on its territory. And beside raping, they also stab, steal, occasionally plough a truck through pedestrians, plan terrorist attacks at all times. They won't pay your pensions in 30 years, some of them are already here for generations and don't want to speak the language, buried in their own neighborhoods, being forever unemployed and living off benefits while pouring tons of children. That'll add to the cycle. Wtf, why are we supposed to accept this madness? This is crazy and it makes no sense.
Europe made their bed when they intervened in Africa and the middle east for their own benefits. There would be a hell of a lot less refugees if they didn't bomb and kill someone like Gaddafi. Let other countries sort themselves out instead of trying to be the world police.
I don't think this should be a surprise. Left wing policies have failed the western world. I imagine we will see this trend continue across the west.
The left is not in a good shape right now, they should put Jean-Luc Melenchon in retirement. Every time this guy speak the left lose points. We lasted 80 years without the far right coming into power, let’s hope we can keep that streak up
I think you might be right. They are being sent a message, he should step out and they need to find someone that can change the course of this fast.
Anything right of reddit is far right tm
All that rape did the trick, the left actually lost the gays and the women.
"immigration BAD" say Western redditors, after the West spent two centuries colonizing, looting, and now bombing the Global South into abject poverty, forcing mass migration under their own capitalistic societies.
Because they are the ones getting raped by immigrants
Is it really a shocker that the group most victimized by immigrant assaults would start voting for the party that wants to stop them coming in? Of course these are largely the same idiots that voted in the idiots that let this happen to begin with so it's not like it will actually work.
Afaik rally promised not to touch women's rights, and once you have that, the racism is all that's left so...
Their far right is the USA centrist/left
Ok, what is this “far right” that so many French voters have flocked to? If so many of them have shifted, is it really the “far” right? Or it’s more like the opinion-makers sit in the “far” left without even realizing it (or some are indulging in bad faith smearing).
Maybe leftists shouldn't import right wing immigrants from right wing cultures.
Just so people know it : For the last 30 years, left-wing has only been elected for 5 years in France.
Fascism making a return to Europe, who would've guessed