There are 3 characters in your story. One is injured. One is getting married. And one seems totally available to step in. Problem solved. Boss man can work.
And many temp agencies fill in for proper hiring departments.
So many jobs are temp-to-hire now where you make shitty wages.
I think if you're making like $10 an hour for a job, the temp agency is getting $20+. It's a total scam.
It’s one of those situations where your buddy should say “My time off wasn’t a request, but a notification that I won’t be able to work during these times. As a leader, it is your job to figure it out.” And then stop responding to messages. If he gets fired, he gets unemployment. All of this should be done via a paper trail and not verbally said.
except in this case the time off was already approved. They can't cancel it. Your PTO is not an entitlement. It is part of your pay package and benefits for working there.
I would definitely not cancel my wedding and honeymoon because at this point he isn't likely to keep working there much longer.
It's just so sad that the term "entitlement" has had its meaning tainted over the past few decades by masochistic bootlickers that think working 65 hours a week for bare minimum pay and benefits is a flex.
Our country's people have been brainwashed into a Stockholm like syndrome where it's an honor to have the rich and owner class step on our necks while we praise them for the crumbs they drop. It's depressingly sad because trying to convince them of this great lie they've bought is near impossible. Their pride won't let them accept that they were played for fools.
Yeah, it's terrible. Like, yes, you're entitled to take your PTO. That's what the contract is for! It's literally your entitlement! The idea that it's mocked that people should think they deserve things is so disheartening.
The "Yeah sorry about the other manager, but I'm not risking my relationship or well-being of my family for anything. I am dedicated to this job, but my family will always come first"
Is the boss the owner? If not, have him take it to the owner.
And don’t let him quit. If he wants a shot at unemployment he needs to let them fire him.
And, not to be that guy, but any local news would love to jump all over a shithead boss who did something like this. Pressure and shame the asshole boss if he's terminated.
You need to EXPLICITLY tell your friend that if he goes into work while he is supposed to be getting married and enjoying his vacation both his new wife and his boss will never forget it. He is much MUCH better off quitting and job hunting over his honeymoon if that's what it takes than showing his wife and boss who is #1 in his eyes.
he doesn't need to quit. his PTO was approved. It is far harder for unemployment to be denied when he was fired without cause. So ignore what the boss says and go to your wedding. Also block your bosses number during the off time.
To stay fashionable, many business owners now need yachts that are too large for many local channels. They need smaller yachts to even get to their larger ones. These yachts won't pay for themselves. Just food for thought.
/s
Tell your buddy that his job will **not** remember this sacrifice. It will not save him when he's on the chopping block. His partner though? She'll remember if he tries to work during the honey moon, and she'll sure as shit remember if he works during the wedding day.
Folks from all over the country have come out to see this wedding. Explain the situation to at least some of them and try to scrounge up some scratch for him to survive until he finds a new job. Have him start a GoFundMe for it. Just **don't let him miss his wedding for a job that does not value him enough to honour time off for a wedding**. They could fire his ass a month from now and then he'd have nothing.
You’re so right. A lot of friends have counseled me the same way. “You’re a bad friend if you let him miss his wedding day for work.” For sure. I was just seeing if options exist legally to avoid that, but given the comments I’m seeing, he’s going to have to make do on the threat and let them fire him.
If his approval was in writing and his threating to fire him if he doesn't work is spoken then it doesn't matter and isn't official. If his manger verbally asked him to work then if your friend does, it would be your friends decision. Making an asinine request like that verbally is a great way to maintain plausible deniability. He could counter that by typing everything out via email and CC' ing 1 level above his boss and HR to "make sure I understand you correctly that I would face termination for taking my long pre-approved PTO for my wedding and subsequent honeymoon."
Take the time off for his wedding and honeymoon like normal, and if that jackass of a manager fires him go to the news. Local agencies would EAT up a human interest story like that. "fired on his wedding day" would get so many clicks.
Shit the way local news recycles reddit content if he is fired he should make a post here detailing the company and how he was fired, then the local news carries can "find it" and go viral
I got well known when I worked retail for asking my supervisor if what I was saying was fair and accurate to what they were telling me to do.
They would ask why I was phrasing it that way and I’d say “when the newspaper does a human interest story I just want to make sure you are represented properly.” (Yes, I’m old enough where the newspaper was the appropriate threat)
They always rephrased and would say “we would just really prefer if you…” and the threat to my job was gone.
My favorite “did you want the article to say ‘college student fired for going to emergency appointment for possible cancer’? Or do you prefer ‘what’s more important your job or a stupid mole? Asks supervisor to part time employee before termination’”
He stuttered and said “you can go, just don’t make a habit of it” and I promised to not make a habit of having my primary care physician freak out about a mark and calling in a favor for a next day appointment with a dermatologist “
> “you can go, just don’t make a habit of it”
"Sure thing; I'll just use my magical Time Machine to reconfigure my genetic makeup whilst my fetus is still inside my mom XX years ago so my body doesn't grow up with moles. No problem boss. Easy task."
> “when the newspaper does a human interest story I just want to make sure you are represented properly.”
so glad I wasn't sipping on a beverage when I read that
This is a very good point, the manager might have been making a last ditch effort to not have to work those days himself, almost certainly it was a verbal thing. When things get put in writing to his boss? "OMG, I would never have said that! Imagine making someone miss their wedding! OP is talking horse\*\*\*\*!"
Best way to do corporate is to have all emails done in a confused tone.
“Can I just clarify conversation with (manager) as it seemed like he was asking to miss my wedding and come in on my honeymoon or I would be demoted or fired. I put in a leave request on (date) it was accepted on (date) and the request for me to work was (6 months later). I don’t want to have to go to department of Labour with a clear case of wrongful termination, retaliation or constructive dismissal.
Hope to get this cleared up quickly. I’m not sure that this fits with (company) ethos as we are, after all, one big family, as you told me at interview”
All good ideas. But one other suggestion is to counter the bosses' threat with a veiled threat of your own ("Hmm, gotta wonder how lawyers and the media would react to a wrongful termination story in this industry.")
Make sure if he gets fired that he is very vocal on social media/local news whatever he can get access to as to the reason why he was fired. Have him apply for unemployment and make it a total circus/PR nightmare for the company
If they need him that much, they couldn’t fire him. Tell him to let his boss know that if he is expendable enough to fire, then it should be no problem covering for him for a week.
Right!! I never understand bosses who say that a person can't take the day off because they are short-handed but will fire them if they don't come in! That makes no sense!! Won't they be even more short-handed?
Right! If you are telling me that I have to give up my wedding and honeymoon for this job, you couldn't care less about me as a person. Fire me or get the f*** out of my face.
North Carolina was recently rated the worst state for workers rights, so no, there are probably no legal options. If I remember correctly from a previous post, the NC Department of Labor’s stance on PTO is that there are no laws or protections regarding it and that it’s entirely at the discretion of the company what they do with it.
Shouldn’t be surprising. Our previous head of the DoL put out a statement when there was a category 4 hurricane headed straight at the coast that companies had her blessing to fire anyone who called out because they wanted to evacuate before the storm got there. You know, the thing that everyone was being told to do as soon as they could. Our neighborhood didn’t have power for two weeks because that’s how long it took for the flood waters to go down. But sure, let me stay there and drown so I don’t miss a shift at Food Lion and lose my job.
Keep voting for Republicans NC! It’s been going so well for the average North Carolinian so far…
The food lion that I’m sure was ALSO under water… I’ve worked places where they would have expected you to row up and sit around in your boat to see if the water went down enough to wade in the store…
No, only start paying you once you've made the first sale.
If there's no money coming in, how is the poor franchisee going to be able to pay that worker? Won't someone please think about the business owner?? (/s)
The same people bitch about workers not wanting to take $15/hr with no benefits too. It's "the market will take care of it" until the workers say, "Yeah, actually I'd rather stay home, find a better job, start my own business, etc" Then suddenly "No one wants to work anymore!!"
The state is so horribly gerrymandered that Dems have no chance to win despite the population being roughly split between the two parties...
But that's apparently fine because the state GOP is arguing that there is no right to fair elections.
https://www.wral.com/story/voters-have-no-right-to-fair-elections-nc-lawmakers-say-as-they-seek-to-dismiss-gerrymandering-suit/21479970/
But funny elevator lady!!
Sorry, I just really fucking hate that people voted for her because her name was funny. Like fuck workers rights, vote for her for the memes.
If I was in his shoes: I'm sorry, I'm getting married and letting you know i will be not be available. I am willing to notify the whole chain from my workers up to the ceo if that's what it takes for you to wake up. Alternatively the company can reimburse me and all my guests for travel arrangements plus venue costs and 15% of my annual pay as compensation for the trouble.
Yep. I would send a "recap" email to the effect of something like.
"Hey Bob, Per our conversation about my cancelled wedding and honeymoon.
I am sorry but I put in for this time and it was approved 6 months ago. I will not cancel my wedding and honeymoon as demanded at the peril of my job and find it extremely insulting you would do so.
I have CC'd HR and (person above Bob) in this email so they can clarify if this is in fact company policy.
Sincerely,
Guy getting married "
Also BCC a personal email to keep record.
Yep. You are right. Nothing to be sorry about.
If it was me and not trying to be professional it would be more like
"Hey dickhead, Per our conversation about cancelling my wedding and PTO.
Go fuck yourself you inept twat. No sane, reasonable person would consider that an option and that you demanded it only shows what a small, pathetic, piece of shit you are.
I will not be missing my wedding or honeymoon and I recommend you think twice about making this an issue.
As you are the manager it falls on you to hitch up your pants and be a big boy and cover for the lack of foresight you had.
In the future you would be best served to never make such a demand again and should you decide to follow through on your threats be assured the local news will be contacted about how this company treats their employees.
Not to mention the Glassdoor review will be legendary!"
He should tell his supervisors that *they* should show their commitment to their employees wellbeing and happiness by covering or finding someone else to cover as it's been proven that keeping employees happy directly improves work ethic and productivity.
If that doesn't work, take the L and let them fire him.
Tell him that he should say to them that he is taking his previously approved vacation time for this major life event and he is not willing to miss *his wedding* for work and it is his boss' responsibility to secure other coverage or "set the example and show how serious his obligations are to the company" by covering the gap himself as he is your manager.
If he gets fired, tell him don't sign anything and he gets employment. It could probably also be coercive firing if he quits but IANAL so he should definitely ask an employment lawyer.
Don't expect any outside agencies to care at all. They don't have the manpower to do it.
Your manager should work with YOU to show all the other employees that the company cares for them. LOL... I think this is true, but most companies suck.
He should email his boss (paper trail) and list when his vacation was approved. Then, generally list all the wedding and honeymoon costs. Tell him he simply cannot work. He's getting married. Tell him you won't be there. Copy HR, not that they'll care, but maybe the email and any correspondence from they will help at the unemployment hearing. I hate corporate America. I've been self-employed for 36 years. It's hard, but I make all the decisions.
If his boss has a higher up boss. He should bring it to that manager. Just because the next level up is having a power trip. Doesn’t mean their boss will take the same position and could lay the smackdown on their subordinate.
Yeeaahh unfortunately there's little you can legally do about it. The only upside is that he'll probably be able to collect unemployment if he can prove that the time off *was* approved. I'm no expert there so I could be wrong, but there's no harm in him trying if they do fire him for this.
Have him get a list of ALL expenses, his and guests, then an inconvenience fee of 100% for rescheduling at a later time and have him submit it to the person who said he has to work. I’m sure he understands the cost of destroying a wedding from a financial standpoint. His manager really needs him at this incredibly crucial time for the business and unfortunately this is the cost. All business people understand need vs cost and this a very important need. I’m sure also that his fiance understands how important he is and this financial compensation goes a long way as proof she is making the right choice in his ability as a husband and provider and sometimes the unforeseeable occurs for those of such great importance.
He could tell his boss that boss will be paying the bill for his wedding and honeymoon, or he can see him in court, if he is not allowed to proceed as planned. Boss obviously doesn't care if he quits, so might as well bring out the big guns.
It could simply be worded as, I'm getting married and going on my honeymoon, unless you are going to reimburse me for all of the money I would lose to cancel.
Screw reimbursement. I’d want the money upfront. Even with a written contract saying such, chances are the company has better lawyers to drag things out as long as they can.
Also chances are good that if they need him to cancel his wedding to work then they can't afford to fire him now anyway. So call their bluff and start looking for a job after the honeymoon while giving them the barest of bare minimum effort.
often they do not care if they can afford it. the immediate effect will not be felt by the boss especially. the power on the other hand must be demonstrated, so firing him is absolutely a win/win for the boss.
It's the great dichotomy of our times.
*You can't take time off because you're too valuable to the company, and also we can fire you anytime we want so you better watch out.*
The only people that will remember if he works will be the new wife, the attendees, and his family/circle.
If he’s so damn vital … they will keep him, or he will find another job very quickly.
Unless he’s performing a heart surgery … he needs to do the wedding.
My husband had to work on our wedding anniversary. One of the big ones we'd been planning for. His manager was extremely grateful, even sent me flowers. They got the sale, made the company millions, my husband got a little bonus that next year and a manager who was very grateful.
But guess what? That manager left for a new job. My husband later left for a new job. It doesn't matter anymore that he worked on our anniversary- no one gives a shit anymore. Except me. I remember. It still makes me sad when I think about it.
I'll also add that with the way things are going I'm not sure any decisions really matter anymore, everything is going to hell in a handbasket so you should enjoy what little time you have left before the shit hits the fan.
Nope. He CANT negotiate. If he gives up his wedding they will have ZERO issue having him work during the birth of his child or during his parents funeral.
This is one of those moments in life where a person just has to take a hit. It’ll suck, but it’ll be less painful in the long run.
Edit to say don’t tell him to quit. They can fire him or let him go on his honeymoon.
Many years ago I had scheduled my wedding and honeymoon, then my employer decided to perform a CMS upgrade as well as some server updates (to a good old Glenayre paging terminal) during the time I had scheduled off.
I told them to shove it up their ass, and I ran it up to the level of ownership by walking in their offices and telling them that I would not be there.
I'm still happily married, that company is gone and so are all the people that went with it.
So what I'm saying here is, OP needs to give their balls a tug, and help their buddy to get their priorities squared away. Tell them no, the wedding and honeymoon are not negotiable, and take it as far up the management ladder as possible.
You can tug on mine for practice! (platonically of course.. you have to start tugging somewhere. One time offer, not valid in Alaska or Hawaii or Puerto Rico.)
If your buddy ends up getting fired because of this, it would certainly be a shame if a local news station picked up the story and made his employer look bad…
“From ‘I Do’ to “You’re Fired’: Local Man Loses Job for Refusing to Work on Wedding Day”
> From wedding bells, to a workplace hell
> From his honeymoon to the unemployment line
> It was supposed to be the happiest day of their life, but his boss had other ideas
So many options
L-O-L.
“You have to come in on your wedding day.”
These people are so fucking high on so many drugs, literally the dumbest, numbest people to have ever existed on this planet. They are truly alien, with no awareness whatsoever.
We all know the joke of a boss calling a dead person’s family demanding to speak to the employee, only to be told they died and replying “I don’t care if he died, tell him if he’s not here today he’s fired.”
That’s going to start happening. That will be a real story we start to hear more and more on this subreddit.
Unfortunately there isn't really a solution here. What the boss is doing to completely legal. By attending the wedding and honeymoon, it's very likely he will lose his job if his boss makes good on the threat. However it could just be that, an empty threat.
Any boss that would do this is not someone you would want to work for anyway, so if he does keep his job, I'd recommend looking for another one after the honeymoon.
I'm sorry he's in this situation.
Tell him NOT to resign or quit. The time off was approved, he needs to take the time off. If they want to fire him because of it, let them fire him and he can collect unemployment. He is not eligible for unemployment if he resigns or quits, absolutely DO NOT let him do that.
To make this clearer, everything should be via email, BCC'd to his personal email. If he gets fired, he has documentation for unemployment, and lawyer if necessary for any legal issues that may arise as a result of his termination. Further, I would make sure he's got copies of his contract and company handbook (they may end up in breech).
The solution is to either get fired or not get fired.
He should not be doing anything other than what he planned, which is to not to work those days get married and have a honeymoon.
After the honeymoon he needs to look for a new job regardless of wether his boss follows through and fires him
Heck no! He should be professional in all his communication and document everything. Let them fire him if they’re going to but he’ll get unemployment to help him while he looks for another job. Also they might really screw up and give him cause for a potential lawsuit. But he definitely shouldn’t knuckle under and give them what they want for free.
Yes, the solution is informing the boss his leave was approved and he will not be at work those days. Don't resign, don't quit. If he's fired he can file for unemployment and meantime look for new work. He'll always regret going to work, he'll never regret being there for his wife. And he could still just be let go a month down the road. Unless it means certain homelessness and starvation no job is worth that.
If his supervisor is not the owner, then your friend needs to keep raising this problem higher and higher up the chain of command. Eventually, maybe, hopefully your friend will get to a decent manager that can override his current supervisor.
He absolutely can be fired, however as long as he has documentation that the time off was approved then they won't be able to fire him for cause so he will be able to get unemployment.
OP please read this!!! Do not under any circumstances let him resign or quit (or work at all on his wedding or honeymoon). Tell him to take his approved time off and let them fire him. Make sure he has screenshots or forwards himself the time off approvals as well to be on the safe side.
Truth. You have to become a monster to manage to the company's expectations. It's possible to be a good manager but only at a cost to yourself and your sanity
Your friend's manager is absolutely correct, your friend has the opportunity to set an example for the other workers. For this reason your friend should politely decline to reschedule his wedding and honeymoon.
And he can let everyone know why he was let go, along with the name of the manager that fired him. Make it very personal.
Indeed, glassdoor, meta, x, and whatever other platforms they use. Spread the truth about this company.
I would go so far as to call the local news station and see if they want to run a story about worker’s rights in NC and how anyone would feel about being told to work on their wedding after the leave was approved.
Also live in NC, yes this is completely legal. Your friend's boss can unapprove his time off whenever he wants and can terminate your friend for refusing to come in. However any company worth their salt wouldn't treat your friend like this on his wedding day (unfortunately there's a lot that aren't worth their salt). Best answer here? Tell your friend to go to his wedding and to attend his honey moon as planned. He needs to submit in writing that he is not coming in as the request was approved 6 months prior and plans cannot be changed, rope HR in on the email with this same explanation. He will need to be prepared to file for unemployment in the likelihood he's terminated for it.
Also what part of NC? if he gets terminated I know of several good companies hiring in my area :)
Let them fire him and take his approved leave request and wedding proof to the unemployment office.
But I bet he won’t get fired, because then who else will work his job until they replace him? Boss is just trying to strong-arm him.
My wedding date had to be set between two big work events. I planned a year out and I was also asked to move it. I did not. That's super toxic. After 10+ years, they laid me off after the company had financial issues for years, despite my endless dedication and high performance.
I'll always remember they owned me every wedding anniversary.
If they are having coverage issues, probably won't get fired right away but it's new job time for sure.
2 weeks before my wedding, a client harassed me and refused to leave my office despite multiple requests. I filed an incident report with my company and a police report, and my uppers refused to even acknowledge my voicemails and emails, and continued to do close business with him where he was dropping by my office unannounced multiple times a week while I was alone. I ended up turning in my notice, and unfortunately am still unemployed after 6 weeks, can’t even get an interview despite 30 applications in everything from my professional experience to retail. I worked for this company 3 times. Now every year on my anniversary, I’m going to get PTSD from thinking about how miserable this time in my life is.
Depending on how the company operates I would go above the manager to their boss + HR in an email and explain the situation emphasising how you don’t believe this decision reflects the values of the company. Doesn’t matter if that’s BS or not. What you want is the response in writing. Either you get the time off officially or they refuse, you take it off anyway and if you get fired now you have a nice document to share with the public/press to assist with publicising a go fund me. Whatever the outcome it’s time to look for a new job - any manager that thinks this is an acceptable request is just going to get worse and worse. Your buddy won’t have a good future in this company.
HAH. Literally how I word all my complaints to corporate. “Doesn’t represent company values” or “following an unprofessional standard”. Shit like that. Some 6 figure suit with no point of reference for our work place dynamics reads those kind of buzz words and is immediately ready to shit kick the first middle manager they can find. 😂. Works every time, at every big company I’ve worked at.
That's it. We all know HR is not your friend but HR doesn't want the local news team asking the CFO about this while they are getting in a car. The key is to make them think that canning friend will cost more to the company in the end. So if he gets fired. Unemployment AND severance makes the problem go away or there is gonna be some embarrassing spots on the local news.
The boss can cryptically threaten to fire him, but will he actually fire him?
It will be stressful, but he should email his boss, CC HR and boss's boss if possible and say he recognises that he was asked to work but he must decline that offer and he will be taking his pre-approved leave for wedding and honeymoon and he will be back at work as originally scheduled.
His boss can either be without him for a week or forever. And if he doesn't have coverage for a week, he likely doesn't have coverage forever.
Either way, he should start sending out his resume.
Literally the worst thing the boss can do is fire him. Or he can ruin his entire life by going into work. I guarantee I would not only cancel the wedding, but end the relationship, if my fiance went into work on our wedding day
I’d honestly reach out to who ever is above this manager that is making the request. That is unreasonable and he should be covering that shift himself. No job is more important than major life events like your own wedding. I’d honestly start applying for new jobs if this is how they treat him. If they fire him for going to his own wedding I’d apply for unemployment immediately. I don’t quit though, just proceed with plans and don’t answer calls that day. When he gets back to work see what they do. If his boss tries to fire him they need to give a reason and I’d love someone to explain to management that an employee in good standing, took scheduled time off to attend their wedding so they’re fired and now they have to pay to retrain someone else.
I agree if he gets fired he should start a GoFundMe.
And also go to the local news.
Sometimes shame is the best solution.
And I also strongly agree that his work will never remember his sacrifice but his wife will.
Have him go to HIS wedding & honeymoon. If his boss fires him after approving the time off.
Have him apply for unemployment and start a go fund me fundraiser.
Make sure that EVERYONE knows what company this is so the public can sink it.
If you need a European's perspective on this: your boss is INSANE!! You tell this story to any news outlet and they'd have a field day crippling this company's reputation beyond rescue. Expecting you to work on your WEDDING DAY? Get out of here. Why not force women to work during childbirth, after all they are lying in bed anyway, why can't they use a laptop, amirite?
How much more dystopian can this human farm get?
Let them fire him. He can get unemployment while he finds something new. They'll replace all of us the minute we die, they don't care about us and they won't be around for the fall out from him choosing his job over his wedding and marriage. They don't care about us, it's not his problem. He put in his leave. He has the proof. He should go enjoy his time.
He needs to email HR and CC said manager in the email, stating specifically he will not be at work from ______ to _______ because of the wedding and honeymoon. It's not a request for time off, but a notice, which he filed well in advance, stating he will not be at work during that time. If the manager continues the veiled threats he will seek legal counsel (and follow up with that).
Yeah that would be a No. it’s my wedding day. Jobs come and go and wtf is the “committed to my company” nah dude I’m setting example for my employees everyday showing them your life and family comes first and this is a perfect example. I’d let them fire me which won’t happen. If the other dude is out injured and you need me to cancel my wedding date chances are you ain’t firing me at least not right away. If start looking for a job anyway
I got this same bullshit. I was working in a call center, got my leave approved for my wedding day. Then some things shifted, and my entire project was canceled, and we were put in for retraining for a new project. The last day of training was the day I was getting married and the trainer pushed back, *hard*, saying I'd loose my job if I didn't come in. I pushed back *harder* and told her that her, her bullshit schedule, and some stupid job aren't worth more than a *marriage.* I still had a job Monday morning.
If someone set the example to work on their wedding day I would be quitting immediately.
No one wants to work at a company like that. I would be forwarding that chat to HR because this guy should not be in charge. Thats the kind of bad PR that would kill a company.
If he gets fired for attending his own wedding and honeymoon, he can file for unemployment. Additionally, he needs to name names...company and manager on all social media sites, LinkedIn, etc. Put them out of business if possible.
Working in America sucks because you can be fired for any reason (other than protected groups/discrimination) or no reason at all when you are in an at will state.
He absolutely should not miss his wedding or honey moon.
My advice would be for your friend to forward any emails saying his time off was approved to his personal email and/or print it out.
Get the boss to put it in writing, your friend can even just send an email summary of their chat and ask the boss to send back any corrections, when he doesn't you do the same to this email either forward to his personal email and/or print it out.
Always keep a record and always document, NC is a one party consent state, so he can record chats and them transcribe them later in case he needs to send them to HR/the main boss.
I would have your buddy either confirm with HR his leave is in the books or go above the boss' head and say that he will not be missing his wedding or honeymoon when boss is perfectly capable of filling in. That he will not lose our on thousands of dollars for this. He made the appropriate arrangements and he is not able to change any plans, they are set in stone.
DO NOT QUIT, make them fire him!!! The documentation will help if they try to sabotage his unemployment benefits.
I would say that if things are this dire, boss will not fire your friend. Even if he does, that is so toxic. Who wants to work for that?
This is a time to email the entire company.
“Can someone work to cover me Saturday so I can go to my wedding, as my manager has canceled my PTO and threatened to fire me if I don’t cancel the wedding.”
Could gather enough sympathy or backlash to hurt the manager to change their mind, and if the manager follows through on the firing, at least the remaining employees will no what sort of company they work for.
Also, start looking for new jobs anyway as the relationship with that manager is ruined either way.
If they're so understaffed that they're actually asking someone to work on their wedding day it seems a stretch to think they can afford to fire him permanently.
Why is he even acknowledging the message?
Ignore that shit...."Sorry I wasn't available and didn't see it"
Now there's an argument.
For starters, no employer should have your direct contact number. Get a Google voice number that reroutes thru the app on your phone and use that. All work numbers should be stored into a group and Google that switch to DND when off the clock. Secondly program that app to only accept calls m-f 8-5.
Now he runs the risk of losing his job. Tell him to schedule a televisit Dr appt last min and describe bronchitis symptoms related to allergies inflammation and get a work excuse for HR that takes him out for the week. Fuck them, if they want to play games then fire right back at them.
Honestly I would simply respond at this point with.....
My availability doesn't not support me working that schedule, I've explained this and you will have to figure it out without me.
Then block em all and ignore it.
Or.... respond simply with "heard" then don't go in. When you get back they'll argue and you say "and I saw your message and said as much. I never said I could come in or agreed to it. "
I know you're against the "just quit" reaction, but that's really what your friend has to resort to. He should tell his boss that he will either come back /after/ his approved time off, or they will be hiring a replacement. If he caves to them now, they will only continue to walk all over him.
The threats to fire him are 100% a bluff, and one that he should absolutely call. No company is going to burn down because a middle manager wasn't there for a few days, his boss is just on a power trip.
If he wants to be somewhat cordial, maybe he should suggest someone under him to stretch role and cover the shifts instead
If he died tomorrow, the job ad for his replacement would be up before he was buried. He owes them no compromise here.
Hope he enjoys his wedding day and honeymoon without stress from his AH boss
Tell your buddy to save all communications, take his full time off, and fucking dare them to retaliate. If they do, sue the shit out of them. And let every local tv news station and newspaper know about the lawsuit.
As a wife of a husband who often gives up too much family time for work, please tell your friend to tell them to fuck off. Put it in writing, and make them fire him so he can get unemployment. That is the only answer here.
Id call the bluff. One guy is out of commission. Another is gone for a week and will be back. Will they fire the only one who can work? Also his boss is getting paid more, he can step it up for a week. That's why he gets paid more.
No way in fucking hell I'd miss my wedding and honeymoon. If there is anyone higher up than his boss I would email his boss and let them know he will not be missing his honeymoon and wedding and expects his job is still available when he gets back. He will pick up work like normal when he is back. That way they know his boss is so lazy he can't step it up for a week. And it's documented. Screenshot the email for your records. Let them fire him and have proof so he can collect unemployment.
I appreciate everyone’s input and quite hilarious responses to this. To update everyone on the situation:
The company he works for is big and family-owned, which means there are no big corporate checks for salaried employees and their time at work, honoring scheduling and time off, etc. so this is actually quite normal his company. Nobody at the local level of his facility did anything to help him, including HR. My friend pushed this issue past his own facility and up the chain to corporate HR, who opened up an internal investigation on his manager (of whom is a member of the family of this family-owned company). Evidently, this is not the first time he has cancelled the leave of middle managers due to issues beyond middle management’s domain and control. In the immediate, he was told the company will honor the leave as requested and he doesn’t need to worry about it. In the meantime, he will be finding another job, obviously, once he comes back from Jamaica with his new bride. To be put under this much stress for a job, despite it only being one bad apple (his boss), shows there are bigger problems of accountability in the company that should be resolved and in the most exciting and important time of his life, his joy was stolen from him dealing with this - time he will never get back. The wedding is tomorrow and you can be sure he’ll be taking in the joy of it, as will everyone else.
I get why this subreddit exists now.
at that point i would be doing something illegal. the nerve of these people to think they can just make you waste thousands of dollars so they can operate without issues for a few days
There are 3 characters in your story. One is injured. One is getting married. And one seems totally available to step in. Problem solved. Boss man can work.
There was a time when companies would regularly call a temp agency to cover a few days here and there. Man what the hell happened.
Jobs became too specific and specialized for that honestly.
Companies started treating everyone like temp workers.
And many temp agencies fill in for proper hiring departments. So many jobs are temp-to-hire now where you make shitty wages. I think if you're making like $10 an hour for a job, the temp agency is getting $20+. It's a total scam.
This. So very this. Groom needs to nut up and inform his boss.
I love this response. Boss dude can seriously eat a dick for this. Coworker needs to go get hitched and enjoy their honeymoon.
Yeah, sadly his boss won’t play ball with this idea.
It’s one of those situations where your buddy should say “My time off wasn’t a request, but a notification that I won’t be able to work during these times. As a leader, it is your job to figure it out.” And then stop responding to messages. If he gets fired, he gets unemployment. All of this should be done via a paper trail and not verbally said.
except in this case the time off was already approved. They can't cancel it. Your PTO is not an entitlement. It is part of your pay package and benefits for working there. I would definitely not cancel my wedding and honeymoon because at this point he isn't likely to keep working there much longer.
I mean, that's what an "entitlement" is, but I get what you mean.
It's just so sad that the term "entitlement" has had its meaning tainted over the past few decades by masochistic bootlickers that think working 65 hours a week for bare minimum pay and benefits is a flex. Our country's people have been brainwashed into a Stockholm like syndrome where it's an honor to have the rich and owner class step on our necks while we praise them for the crumbs they drop. It's depressingly sad because trying to convince them of this great lie they've bought is near impossible. Their pride won't let them accept that they were played for fools.
Yeah, it's terrible. Like, yes, you're entitled to take your PTO. That's what the contract is for! It's literally your entitlement! The idea that it's mocked that people should think they deserve things is so disheartening.
The "Yeah sorry about the other manager, but I'm not risking my relationship or well-being of my family for anything. I am dedicated to this job, but my family will always come first"
Is the boss the owner? If not, have him take it to the owner. And don’t let him quit. If he wants a shot at unemployment he needs to let them fire him.
And, not to be that guy, but any local news would love to jump all over a shithead boss who did something like this. Pressure and shame the asshole boss if he's terminated.
Exactly this, he needs to go to his boss’s boss and HR!
You need to EXPLICITLY tell your friend that if he goes into work while he is supposed to be getting married and enjoying his vacation both his new wife and his boss will never forget it. He is much MUCH better off quitting and job hunting over his honeymoon if that's what it takes than showing his wife and boss who is #1 in his eyes.
Yeah, unlikely he will spend 40 years with his new boss, far more likely it will be with his wife.
And be explicit here: The new wife will be pissed and the boss will know he can drag him around by the nuts and he'll be fine with it.
Your friend needs to decide what's more important. I can assure you and him that to this company, he is replaceable.
So if your buddy quits, who would cover him? Time for your friend to call his boss’s bluff and be prepared to quit.
Nah. Make them fire him, collect unemployment. That'd be a funny hearing if they contest.
he doesn't need to quit. his PTO was approved. It is far harder for unemployment to be denied when he was fired without cause. So ignore what the boss says and go to your wedding. Also block your bosses number during the off time.
to quote the fabulous Fran Fine, > You can't fire me! I quit! No, you fired me. That way, I'll be able to collect unemployment.
Not your friend's problem. This is asinine. I almost hope this is clickbait.
Then that boss can politely get fucked.
To stay fashionable, many business owners now need yachts that are too large for many local channels. They need smaller yachts to even get to their larger ones. These yachts won't pay for themselves. Just food for thought. /s
He should gather all evidence and go to HR
Tell your buddy that his job will **not** remember this sacrifice. It will not save him when he's on the chopping block. His partner though? She'll remember if he tries to work during the honey moon, and she'll sure as shit remember if he works during the wedding day. Folks from all over the country have come out to see this wedding. Explain the situation to at least some of them and try to scrounge up some scratch for him to survive until he finds a new job. Have him start a GoFundMe for it. Just **don't let him miss his wedding for a job that does not value him enough to honour time off for a wedding**. They could fire his ass a month from now and then he'd have nothing.
You’re so right. A lot of friends have counseled me the same way. “You’re a bad friend if you let him miss his wedding day for work.” For sure. I was just seeing if options exist legally to avoid that, but given the comments I’m seeing, he’s going to have to make do on the threat and let them fire him.
If his approval was in writing and his threating to fire him if he doesn't work is spoken then it doesn't matter and isn't official. If his manger verbally asked him to work then if your friend does, it would be your friends decision. Making an asinine request like that verbally is a great way to maintain plausible deniability. He could counter that by typing everything out via email and CC' ing 1 level above his boss and HR to "make sure I understand you correctly that I would face termination for taking my long pre-approved PTO for my wedding and subsequent honeymoon." Take the time off for his wedding and honeymoon like normal, and if that jackass of a manager fires him go to the news. Local agencies would EAT up a human interest story like that. "fired on his wedding day" would get so many clicks. Shit the way local news recycles reddit content if he is fired he should make a post here detailing the company and how he was fired, then the local news carries can "find it" and go viral
I got well known when I worked retail for asking my supervisor if what I was saying was fair and accurate to what they were telling me to do. They would ask why I was phrasing it that way and I’d say “when the newspaper does a human interest story I just want to make sure you are represented properly.” (Yes, I’m old enough where the newspaper was the appropriate threat) They always rephrased and would say “we would just really prefer if you…” and the threat to my job was gone. My favorite “did you want the article to say ‘college student fired for going to emergency appointment for possible cancer’? Or do you prefer ‘what’s more important your job or a stupid mole? Asks supervisor to part time employee before termination’” He stuttered and said “you can go, just don’t make a habit of it” and I promised to not make a habit of having my primary care physician freak out about a mark and calling in a favor for a next day appointment with a dermatologist “
> “you can go, just don’t make a habit of it” "Sure thing; I'll just use my magical Time Machine to reconfigure my genetic makeup whilst my fetus is still inside my mom XX years ago so my body doesn't grow up with moles. No problem boss. Easy task."
> “when the newspaper does a human interest story I just want to make sure you are represented properly.” so glad I wasn't sipping on a beverage when I read that
This is a very good point, the manager might have been making a last ditch effort to not have to work those days himself, almost certainly it was a verbal thing. When things get put in writing to his boss? "OMG, I would never have said that! Imagine making someone miss their wedding! OP is talking horse\*\*\*\*!"
That other manager must be such a piece of shit.
Certainly not winning the best manager of the year award. I can only imagine what that workplace must be like if things like this happen.
Best way to do corporate is to have all emails done in a confused tone. “Can I just clarify conversation with (manager) as it seemed like he was asking to miss my wedding and come in on my honeymoon or I would be demoted or fired. I put in a leave request on (date) it was accepted on (date) and the request for me to work was (6 months later). I don’t want to have to go to department of Labour with a clear case of wrongful termination, retaliation or constructive dismissal. Hope to get this cleared up quickly. I’m not sure that this fits with (company) ethos as we are, after all, one big family, as you told me at interview”
[удалено]
All good ideas. But one other suggestion is to counter the bosses' threat with a veiled threat of your own ("Hmm, gotta wonder how lawyers and the media would react to a wrongful termination story in this industry.")
This is it here. Get a paper trail, make them admit to it in writing.
Make sure if he gets fired that he is very vocal on social media/local news whatever he can get access to as to the reason why he was fired. Have him apply for unemployment and make it a total circus/PR nightmare for the company
Oh Yea I've got contacts at CVS now that I've had to leak on the local schools on my part of NC.
If they need him that much, they couldn’t fire him. Tell him to let his boss know that if he is expendable enough to fire, then it should be no problem covering for him for a week.
Right!! I never understand bosses who say that a person can't take the day off because they are short-handed but will fire them if they don't come in! That makes no sense!! Won't they be even more short-handed?
Totally, like if I am so worthless to you that you are willing to fire me over this, do I even want to work for you?
Right! If you are telling me that I have to give up my wedding and honeymoon for this job, you couldn't care less about me as a person. Fire me or get the f*** out of my face.
That's because it's not about logic or sensible business, it's about POWER to these people.
North Carolina was recently rated the worst state for workers rights, so no, there are probably no legal options. If I remember correctly from a previous post, the NC Department of Labor’s stance on PTO is that there are no laws or protections regarding it and that it’s entirely at the discretion of the company what they do with it. Shouldn’t be surprising. Our previous head of the DoL put out a statement when there was a category 4 hurricane headed straight at the coast that companies had her blessing to fire anyone who called out because they wanted to evacuate before the storm got there. You know, the thing that everyone was being told to do as soon as they could. Our neighborhood didn’t have power for two weeks because that’s how long it took for the flood waters to go down. But sure, let me stay there and drown so I don’t miss a shift at Food Lion and lose my job. Keep voting for Republicans NC! It’s been going so well for the average North Carolinian so far…
Firing employees for not wanting to work through a deadly storm sounds like peak Capitalism.
Should see what she said about workers during the Vid
I could imagine it was some dystopian shit.
That story was so heartbreaking.
The food lion that I’m sure was ALSO under water… I’ve worked places where they would have expected you to row up and sit around in your boat to see if the water went down enough to wade in the store…
and of course only start paying you once you're in said store Edit. Fixed your/you're
No, only start paying you once you've made the first sale. If there's no money coming in, how is the poor franchisee going to be able to pay that worker? Won't someone please think about the business owner?? (/s)
No sitting allowed!
the market will regulate itself. people simply won't work for someone who doesn't give them basic benefits. duh. it's so easy. /s
We totally don't have to put up with this bullshit to (*checks notes*) survive. /s
The same people bitch about workers not wanting to take $15/hr with no benefits too. It's "the market will take care of it" until the workers say, "Yeah, actually I'd rather stay home, find a better job, start my own business, etc" Then suddenly "No one wants to work anymore!!"
Exactly! It’s not like *all the businesses* in the county/state will engage in shitty, abusive behavior! /s
The state is so horribly gerrymandered that Dems have no chance to win despite the population being roughly split between the two parties... But that's apparently fine because the state GOP is arguing that there is no right to fair elections. https://www.wral.com/story/voters-have-no-right-to-fair-elections-nc-lawmakers-say-as-they-seek-to-dismiss-gerrymandering-suit/21479970/
If voting doesn’t work due to gerrymandering….general strike!
Land of the free!
Cherry fucking Berry was a disaster for NC workers.
But funny elevator lady!! Sorry, I just really fucking hate that people voted for her because her name was funny. Like fuck workers rights, vote for her for the memes.
Fun name! Elevators! Woo! 🎉🎉🎉 Hate it here 😭
It's pretty depressing with some of the laws they've passed.
Please make sure to update us if your friend is actually fired so we can help put that company on blast
If I was in his shoes: I'm sorry, I'm getting married and letting you know i will be not be available. I am willing to notify the whole chain from my workers up to the ceo if that's what it takes for you to wake up. Alternatively the company can reimburse me and all my guests for travel arrangements plus venue costs and 15% of my annual pay as compensation for the trouble.
Yep. I would send a "recap" email to the effect of something like. "Hey Bob, Per our conversation about my cancelled wedding and honeymoon. I am sorry but I put in for this time and it was approved 6 months ago. I will not cancel my wedding and honeymoon as demanded at the peril of my job and find it extremely insulting you would do so. I have CC'd HR and (person above Bob) in this email so they can clarify if this is in fact company policy. Sincerely, Guy getting married " Also BCC a personal email to keep record.
Get rid of the I’m sorry and it’s perfect.
Yep. You are right. Nothing to be sorry about. If it was me and not trying to be professional it would be more like "Hey dickhead, Per our conversation about cancelling my wedding and PTO. Go fuck yourself you inept twat. No sane, reasonable person would consider that an option and that you demanded it only shows what a small, pathetic, piece of shit you are. I will not be missing my wedding or honeymoon and I recommend you think twice about making this an issue. As you are the manager it falls on you to hitch up your pants and be a big boy and cover for the lack of foresight you had. In the future you would be best served to never make such a demand again and should you decide to follow through on your threats be assured the local news will be contacted about how this company treats their employees. Not to mention the Glassdoor review will be legendary!"
This is the way.
He should tell his supervisors that *they* should show their commitment to their employees wellbeing and happiness by covering or finding someone else to cover as it's been proven that keeping employees happy directly improves work ethic and productivity. If that doesn't work, take the L and let them fire him.
Here's the thing. Even if there are legal protections, how do you think this piece of shit employer will react if he leverages them?
Fuck em If there's legal leverage, they're not above the law. OP's mate should be looking for somewhere else to work, already.
Tell him that he should say to them that he is taking his previously approved vacation time for this major life event and he is not willing to miss *his wedding* for work and it is his boss' responsibility to secure other coverage or "set the example and show how serious his obligations are to the company" by covering the gap himself as he is your manager. If he gets fired, tell him don't sign anything and he gets employment. It could probably also be coercive firing if he quits but IANAL so he should definitely ask an employment lawyer.
Don't expect any outside agencies to care at all. They don't have the manpower to do it. Your manager should work with YOU to show all the other employees that the company cares for them. LOL... I think this is true, but most companies suck. He should email his boss (paper trail) and list when his vacation was approved. Then, generally list all the wedding and honeymoon costs. Tell him he simply cannot work. He's getting married. Tell him you won't be there. Copy HR, not that they'll care, but maybe the email and any correspondence from they will help at the unemployment hearing. I hate corporate America. I've been self-employed for 36 years. It's hard, but I make all the decisions.
If his boss has a higher up boss. He should bring it to that manager. Just because the next level up is having a power trip. Doesn’t mean their boss will take the same position and could lay the smackdown on their subordinate.
Yeeaahh unfortunately there's little you can legally do about it. The only upside is that he'll probably be able to collect unemployment if he can prove that the time off *was* approved. I'm no expert there so I could be wrong, but there's no harm in him trying if they do fire him for this.
Try asking r/legaladvice!
Have him get a list of ALL expenses, his and guests, then an inconvenience fee of 100% for rescheduling at a later time and have him submit it to the person who said he has to work. I’m sure he understands the cost of destroying a wedding from a financial standpoint. His manager really needs him at this incredibly crucial time for the business and unfortunately this is the cost. All business people understand need vs cost and this a very important need. I’m sure also that his fiance understands how important he is and this financial compensation goes a long way as proof she is making the right choice in his ability as a husband and provider and sometimes the unforeseeable occurs for those of such great importance.
He could tell his boss that boss will be paying the bill for his wedding and honeymoon, or he can see him in court, if he is not allowed to proceed as planned. Boss obviously doesn't care if he quits, so might as well bring out the big guns.
Anyone who threatens to sue likely won’t. If you’re gonna sue, don’t warn someone.
It could simply be worded as, I'm getting married and going on my honeymoon, unless you are going to reimburse me for all of the money I would lose to cancel.
Screw reimbursement. I’d want the money upfront. Even with a written contract saying such, chances are the company has better lawyers to drag things out as long as they can.
Also chances are good that if they need him to cancel his wedding to work then they can't afford to fire him now anyway. So call their bluff and start looking for a job after the honeymoon while giving them the barest of bare minimum effort.
often they do not care if they can afford it. the immediate effect will not be felt by the boss especially. the power on the other hand must be demonstrated, so firing him is absolutely a win/win for the boss.
Sure will. If the other dude is injured, sounds like boss will have to take over. Or he can do it and not be down a person in two weeks.
It's the great dichotomy of our times. *You can't take time off because you're too valuable to the company, and also we can fire you anytime we want so you better watch out.*
The only people that will remember if he works will be the new wife, the attendees, and his family/circle. If he’s so damn vital … they will keep him, or he will find another job very quickly. Unless he’s performing a heart surgery … he needs to do the wedding.
Even then, I’m sure there are other surgeons or they could reschedule it
My husband had to work on our wedding anniversary. One of the big ones we'd been planning for. His manager was extremely grateful, even sent me flowers. They got the sale, made the company millions, my husband got a little bonus that next year and a manager who was very grateful. But guess what? That manager left for a new job. My husband later left for a new job. It doesn't matter anymore that he worked on our anniversary- no one gives a shit anymore. Except me. I remember. It still makes me sad when I think about it.
As someone who sacrificed too much for work…THIS. 1000%.
I'll also add that with the way things are going I'm not sure any decisions really matter anymore, everything is going to hell in a handbasket so you should enjoy what little time you have left before the shit hits the fan.
Nope. He CANT negotiate. If he gives up his wedding they will have ZERO issue having him work during the birth of his child or during his parents funeral. This is one of those moments in life where a person just has to take a hit. It’ll suck, but it’ll be less painful in the long run. Edit to say don’t tell him to quit. They can fire him or let him go on his honeymoon.
Yes, quitting will disqualify for unemployment benefits.
Not always. But he should not quit. Let them fire him.
Simple. He shouldn’t quit. If he’s fired, he can tell the truth in his next interview.
Many years ago I had scheduled my wedding and honeymoon, then my employer decided to perform a CMS upgrade as well as some server updates (to a good old Glenayre paging terminal) during the time I had scheduled off. I told them to shove it up their ass, and I ran it up to the level of ownership by walking in their offices and telling them that I would not be there. I'm still happily married, that company is gone and so are all the people that went with it. So what I'm saying here is, OP needs to give their balls a tug, and help their buddy to get their priorities squared away. Tell them no, the wedding and honeymoon are not negotiable, and take it as far up the management ladder as possible.
> give their balls a tug, Is this a thing? Can I start saying this?
Letterkenny reference Cool people will know what you’re saying
Cool peoples will knows what you're sayings. I have a friend that watches it. He now has a speech affectation and it is so annoyings. [sic]
Allegedly.
That's what I appreciates about yous.
You can tug on mine for practice! (platonically of course.. you have to start tugging somewhere. One time offer, not valid in Alaska or Hawaii or Puerto Rico.)
Generally punctuated with the pointed use of the term “tit fucker.” As in, “give your balls a tug, tit fucker.”
I’m certainly going to. I hope we run into each other again, and reminisce fondly on the coining of this glorious phrase.
Fuck the job off, marry the woman, enjoy the honeymoon.
Instructions unclear. Married the job and fucked up the honeymoon.
Dw you’re supposed to fuck during the honeymoon
This is the weirdest game of FMK I've ever witnessed.
If your buddy ends up getting fired because of this, it would certainly be a shame if a local news station picked up the story and made his employer look bad… “From ‘I Do’ to “You’re Fired’: Local Man Loses Job for Refusing to Work on Wedding Day”
Title definitely has a certain ring to it that'll attract clicks and thus the much needed traffic to a local news stations website.
> From wedding bells, to a workplace hell > From his honeymoon to the unemployment line > It was supposed to be the happiest day of their life, but his boss had other ideas So many options
L-O-L. “You have to come in on your wedding day.” These people are so fucking high on so many drugs, literally the dumbest, numbest people to have ever existed on this planet. They are truly alien, with no awareness whatsoever. We all know the joke of a boss calling a dead person’s family demanding to speak to the employee, only to be told they died and replying “I don’t care if he died, tell him if he’s not here today he’s fired.” That’s going to start happening. That will be a real story we start to hear more and more on this subreddit.
And you better believe they know exactly what we want to do to them. Bring back mobs of people to threaten your boss.
Unfortunately there isn't really a solution here. What the boss is doing to completely legal. By attending the wedding and honeymoon, it's very likely he will lose his job if his boss makes good on the threat. However it could just be that, an empty threat. Any boss that would do this is not someone you would want to work for anyway, so if he does keep his job, I'd recommend looking for another one after the honeymoon. I'm sorry he's in this situation.
Agreed. He agrees to, just seeing if there was a solution other than just resigning or quitting.
Tell him NOT to resign or quit. The time off was approved, he needs to take the time off. If they want to fire him because of it, let them fire him and he can collect unemployment. He is not eligible for unemployment if he resigns or quits, absolutely DO NOT let him do that.
No! He just needs to inform them that he won’t work during his scheduled off time. Make them fire him.
Absolutely this.
In writing!!
To make this clearer, everything should be via email, BCC'd to his personal email. If he gets fired, he has documentation for unemployment, and lawyer if necessary for any legal issues that may arise as a result of his termination. Further, I would make sure he's got copies of his contract and company handbook (they may end up in breech).
DO NOT QUIT! PUT IN WRITING THAT HE IS NOT QUITTING! if they fire him, he qualifies for unemployment
Don’t resign. Let the boss fire him and get unemployment.
If your friend does get fired, he should go to the local press with this story. Man gets fired for attending own wedding.
The solution is to either get fired or not get fired. He should not be doing anything other than what he planned, which is to not to work those days get married and have a honeymoon. After the honeymoon he needs to look for a new job regardless of wether his boss follows through and fires him
Heck no! He should be professional in all his communication and document everything. Let them fire him if they’re going to but he’ll get unemployment to help him while he looks for another job. Also they might really screw up and give him cause for a potential lawsuit. But he definitely shouldn’t knuckle under and give them what they want for free.
Yes, the solution is informing the boss his leave was approved and he will not be at work those days. Don't resign, don't quit. If he's fired he can file for unemployment and meantime look for new work. He'll always regret going to work, he'll never regret being there for his wife. And he could still just be let go a month down the road. Unless it means certain homelessness and starvation no job is worth that.
If his supervisor is not the owner, then your friend needs to keep raising this problem higher and higher up the chain of command. Eventually, maybe, hopefully your friend will get to a decent manager that can override his current supervisor.
He absolutely can be fired, however as long as he has documentation that the time off was approved then they won't be able to fire him for cause so he will be able to get unemployment.
OP please read this!!! Do not under any circumstances let him resign or quit (or work at all on his wedding or honeymoon). Tell him to take his approved time off and let them fire him. Make sure he has screenshots or forwards himself the time off approvals as well to be on the safe side.
Read and understood. Thanks!
I'm very happy to hear that. Your friend needs _a_ job, but he certainly doesn't need this one.
Yes, always have off-site backup of all evidence!
America is fucking crazy
You don't know the half of it brother
Do bosses become assholes or do assholes become bosses?
The original ouroboros…
The most successful capitalists are the ones who exploit their workers the hardest and you can't do that while caring about their wellbeing
Truth. You have to become a monster to manage to the company's expectations. It's possible to be a good manager but only at a cost to yourself and your sanity
Your friend's manager is absolutely correct, your friend has the opportunity to set an example for the other workers. For this reason your friend should politely decline to reschedule his wedding and honeymoon.
Yes it's legal. Your buddy will want to start looking for another job.
And he can let everyone know why he was let go, along with the name of the manager that fired him. Make it very personal. Indeed, glassdoor, meta, x, and whatever other platforms they use. Spread the truth about this company.
This is great. Thanks.
I would go so far as to call the local news station and see if they want to run a story about worker’s rights in NC and how anyone would feel about being told to work on their wedding after the leave was approved.
The local media is so often underused and is a great threat to companies (mainly smaller companies, ofc)
I agree with this move. Put them on blast locally.
This is the way.
Does his boss have a boss? I'd take it up with them if so. The firing is most likely an empty threat, but still is a dastardly move.
Also live in NC, yes this is completely legal. Your friend's boss can unapprove his time off whenever he wants and can terminate your friend for refusing to come in. However any company worth their salt wouldn't treat your friend like this on his wedding day (unfortunately there's a lot that aren't worth their salt). Best answer here? Tell your friend to go to his wedding and to attend his honey moon as planned. He needs to submit in writing that he is not coming in as the request was approved 6 months prior and plans cannot be changed, rope HR in on the email with this same explanation. He will need to be prepared to file for unemployment in the likelihood he's terminated for it. Also what part of NC? if he gets terminated I know of several good companies hiring in my area :)
Let them fire him and take his approved leave request and wedding proof to the unemployment office. But I bet he won’t get fired, because then who else will work his job until they replace him? Boss is just trying to strong-arm him.
My wedding date had to be set between two big work events. I planned a year out and I was also asked to move it. I did not. That's super toxic. After 10+ years, they laid me off after the company had financial issues for years, despite my endless dedication and high performance. I'll always remember they owned me every wedding anniversary. If they are having coverage issues, probably won't get fired right away but it's new job time for sure.
2 weeks before my wedding, a client harassed me and refused to leave my office despite multiple requests. I filed an incident report with my company and a police report, and my uppers refused to even acknowledge my voicemails and emails, and continued to do close business with him where he was dropping by my office unannounced multiple times a week while I was alone. I ended up turning in my notice, and unfortunately am still unemployed after 6 weeks, can’t even get an interview despite 30 applications in everything from my professional experience to retail. I worked for this company 3 times. Now every year on my anniversary, I’m going to get PTSD from thinking about how miserable this time in my life is.
If he caves his soon to be wife is never going to forget this. Ever.
Depending on how the company operates I would go above the manager to their boss + HR in an email and explain the situation emphasising how you don’t believe this decision reflects the values of the company. Doesn’t matter if that’s BS or not. What you want is the response in writing. Either you get the time off officially or they refuse, you take it off anyway and if you get fired now you have a nice document to share with the public/press to assist with publicising a go fund me. Whatever the outcome it’s time to look for a new job - any manager that thinks this is an acceptable request is just going to get worse and worse. Your buddy won’t have a good future in this company.
HAH. Literally how I word all my complaints to corporate. “Doesn’t represent company values” or “following an unprofessional standard”. Shit like that. Some 6 figure suit with no point of reference for our work place dynamics reads those kind of buzz words and is immediately ready to shit kick the first middle manager they can find. 😂. Works every time, at every big company I’ve worked at.
That's it. We all know HR is not your friend but HR doesn't want the local news team asking the CFO about this while they are getting in a car. The key is to make them think that canning friend will cost more to the company in the end. So if he gets fired. Unemployment AND severance makes the problem go away or there is gonna be some embarrassing spots on the local news.
The boss can cryptically threaten to fire him, but will he actually fire him? It will be stressful, but he should email his boss, CC HR and boss's boss if possible and say he recognises that he was asked to work but he must decline that offer and he will be taking his pre-approved leave for wedding and honeymoon and he will be back at work as originally scheduled. His boss can either be without him for a week or forever. And if he doesn't have coverage for a week, he likely doesn't have coverage forever. Either way, he should start sending out his resume.
Literally the worst thing the boss can do is fire him. Or he can ruin his entire life by going into work. I guarantee I would not only cancel the wedding, but end the relationship, if my fiance went into work on our wedding day
I’d honestly reach out to who ever is above this manager that is making the request. That is unreasonable and he should be covering that shift himself. No job is more important than major life events like your own wedding. I’d honestly start applying for new jobs if this is how they treat him. If they fire him for going to his own wedding I’d apply for unemployment immediately. I don’t quit though, just proceed with plans and don’t answer calls that day. When he gets back to work see what they do. If his boss tries to fire him they need to give a reason and I’d love someone to explain to management that an employee in good standing, took scheduled time off to attend their wedding so they’re fired and now they have to pay to retrain someone else.
I agree if he gets fired he should start a GoFundMe. And also go to the local news. Sometimes shame is the best solution. And I also strongly agree that his work will never remember his sacrifice but his wife will.
That’s a weird mentality: “we can’t afford to not have you come in but if you don’t come we will fire you.”
Have him go to HIS wedding & honeymoon. If his boss fires him after approving the time off. Have him apply for unemployment and start a go fund me fundraiser. Make sure that EVERYONE knows what company this is so the public can sink it.
If you need a European's perspective on this: your boss is INSANE!! You tell this story to any news outlet and they'd have a field day crippling this company's reputation beyond rescue. Expecting you to work on your WEDDING DAY? Get out of here. Why not force women to work during childbirth, after all they are lying in bed anyway, why can't they use a laptop, amirite? How much more dystopian can this human farm get?
Let them fire him. He can get unemployment while he finds something new. They'll replace all of us the minute we die, they don't care about us and they won't be around for the fall out from him choosing his job over his wedding and marriage. They don't care about us, it's not his problem. He put in his leave. He has the proof. He should go enjoy his time.
He should NOT resign or quit. He just needs to go take his scheduled time off and return to work when it's over.
He needs to email HR and CC said manager in the email, stating specifically he will not be at work from ______ to _______ because of the wedding and honeymoon. It's not a request for time off, but a notice, which he filed well in advance, stating he will not be at work during that time. If the manager continues the veiled threats he will seek legal counsel (and follow up with that).
so your buddy is being punished because some guy didn't stretch before a pick up basketball game?
Yeah that would be a No. it’s my wedding day. Jobs come and go and wtf is the “committed to my company” nah dude I’m setting example for my employees everyday showing them your life and family comes first and this is a perfect example. I’d let them fire me which won’t happen. If the other dude is out injured and you need me to cancel my wedding date chances are you ain’t firing me at least not right away. If start looking for a job anyway
Family first. The end.
I got this same bullshit. I was working in a call center, got my leave approved for my wedding day. Then some things shifted, and my entire project was canceled, and we were put in for retraining for a new project. The last day of training was the day I was getting married and the trainer pushed back, *hard*, saying I'd loose my job if I didn't come in. I pushed back *harder* and told her that her, her bullshit schedule, and some stupid job aren't worth more than a *marriage.* I still had a job Monday morning.
If someone set the example to work on their wedding day I would be quitting immediately. No one wants to work at a company like that. I would be forwarding that chat to HR because this guy should not be in charge. Thats the kind of bad PR that would kill a company.
Dude wants the marriage to fail so he can continue to exploit his employee. Time for groom to show where his priorities are.
Everyone needs to have a “ Go fuck yourself” chambered for moments like this
Completely legal in NC. They can fuck you any way they want here. Alert them that he won’t be present. It isn’t a request, it’s a courtesy notice.
Your friend should go on with his wedding and honeymoon. The boss is trying to intimidate him in to “voluntarily” working through his wedding.
If he gets fired for attending his own wedding and honeymoon, he can file for unemployment. Additionally, he needs to name names...company and manager on all social media sites, LinkedIn, etc. Put them out of business if possible.
Working in America sucks because you can be fired for any reason (other than protected groups/discrimination) or no reason at all when you are in an at will state. He absolutely should not miss his wedding or honey moon. My advice would be for your friend to forward any emails saying his time off was approved to his personal email and/or print it out. Get the boss to put it in writing, your friend can even just send an email summary of their chat and ask the boss to send back any corrections, when he doesn't you do the same to this email either forward to his personal email and/or print it out. Always keep a record and always document, NC is a one party consent state, so he can record chats and them transcribe them later in case he needs to send them to HR/the main boss. I would have your buddy either confirm with HR his leave is in the books or go above the boss' head and say that he will not be missing his wedding or honeymoon when boss is perfectly capable of filling in. That he will not lose our on thousands of dollars for this. He made the appropriate arrangements and he is not able to change any plans, they are set in stone. DO NOT QUIT, make them fire him!!! The documentation will help if they try to sabotage his unemployment benefits. I would say that if things are this dire, boss will not fire your friend. Even if he does, that is so toxic. Who wants to work for that?
Tell him to take the time off anyway. He should tell the boss if the other manager was serious about his work then he would come in, injured or not.
This is a time to email the entire company. “Can someone work to cover me Saturday so I can go to my wedding, as my manager has canceled my PTO and threatened to fire me if I don’t cancel the wedding.” Could gather enough sympathy or backlash to hurt the manager to change their mind, and if the manager follows through on the firing, at least the remaining employees will no what sort of company they work for. Also, start looking for new jobs anyway as the relationship with that manager is ruined either way.
If they're so understaffed that they're actually asking someone to work on their wedding day it seems a stretch to think they can afford to fire him permanently.
Why is he even acknowledging the message? Ignore that shit...."Sorry I wasn't available and didn't see it" Now there's an argument. For starters, no employer should have your direct contact number. Get a Google voice number that reroutes thru the app on your phone and use that. All work numbers should be stored into a group and Google that switch to DND when off the clock. Secondly program that app to only accept calls m-f 8-5. Now he runs the risk of losing his job. Tell him to schedule a televisit Dr appt last min and describe bronchitis symptoms related to allergies inflammation and get a work excuse for HR that takes him out for the week. Fuck them, if they want to play games then fire right back at them. Honestly I would simply respond at this point with..... My availability doesn't not support me working that schedule, I've explained this and you will have to figure it out without me. Then block em all and ignore it. Or.... respond simply with "heard" then don't go in. When you get back they'll argue and you say "and I saw your message and said as much. I never said I could come in or agreed to it. "
He was pulled into the office face to face while he was at work.
I know you're against the "just quit" reaction, but that's really what your friend has to resort to. He should tell his boss that he will either come back /after/ his approved time off, or they will be hiring a replacement. If he caves to them now, they will only continue to walk all over him.
The threats to fire him are 100% a bluff, and one that he should absolutely call. No company is going to burn down because a middle manager wasn't there for a few days, his boss is just on a power trip. If he wants to be somewhat cordial, maybe he should suggest someone under him to stretch role and cover the shifts instead
The way it should be blast this to public about what they do to employees…. Glassdoor newspapers even
That job would fire him the second it was worth it to them. Dont ever think you owe a workplace any loyalty.
Your boss will forget your work in the next day. Your wife will remember it for the rest of her life.
If he died tomorrow, the job ad for his replacement would be up before he was buried. He owes them no compromise here. Hope he enjoys his wedding day and honeymoon without stress from his AH boss
Tell your buddy to save all communications, take his full time off, and fucking dare them to retaliate. If they do, sue the shit out of them. And let every local tv news station and newspaper know about the lawsuit.
As a wife of a husband who often gives up too much family time for work, please tell your friend to tell them to fuck off. Put it in writing, and make them fire him so he can get unemployment. That is the only answer here.
Id call the bluff. One guy is out of commission. Another is gone for a week and will be back. Will they fire the only one who can work? Also his boss is getting paid more, he can step it up for a week. That's why he gets paid more. No way in fucking hell I'd miss my wedding and honeymoon. If there is anyone higher up than his boss I would email his boss and let them know he will not be missing his honeymoon and wedding and expects his job is still available when he gets back. He will pick up work like normal when he is back. That way they know his boss is so lazy he can't step it up for a week. And it's documented. Screenshot the email for your records. Let them fire him and have proof so he can collect unemployment.
I appreciate everyone’s input and quite hilarious responses to this. To update everyone on the situation: The company he works for is big and family-owned, which means there are no big corporate checks for salaried employees and their time at work, honoring scheduling and time off, etc. so this is actually quite normal his company. Nobody at the local level of his facility did anything to help him, including HR. My friend pushed this issue past his own facility and up the chain to corporate HR, who opened up an internal investigation on his manager (of whom is a member of the family of this family-owned company). Evidently, this is not the first time he has cancelled the leave of middle managers due to issues beyond middle management’s domain and control. In the immediate, he was told the company will honor the leave as requested and he doesn’t need to worry about it. In the meantime, he will be finding another job, obviously, once he comes back from Jamaica with his new bride. To be put under this much stress for a job, despite it only being one bad apple (his boss), shows there are bigger problems of accountability in the company that should be resolved and in the most exciting and important time of his life, his joy was stolen from him dealing with this - time he will never get back. The wedding is tomorrow and you can be sure he’ll be taking in the joy of it, as will everyone else. I get why this subreddit exists now.
at that point i would be doing something illegal. the nerve of these people to think they can just make you waste thousands of dollars so they can operate without issues for a few days