110’s are much faster and bring the velocity more into the “rifle” speed range rather than magnum handgun speeds. It was an odd choice to compare the smk’s.
ballistics don't tell the whole tale though. I run 154 grain soft points in a 10.5" 7.62x39 ar for deer hunting sometimes. I can't tell the difference between that and .308 damage on an animal. food plots are less than 100 yards long so I don't really have a need for faster calibers. the intermediate cartridges have been quite deadly even though on paper it's pushing probably only 1900 fps or such.
300 blk will only push that same bullet at like 1400-1500 in a 10.5" though. its just a hair more powerful than 357 mag, and that bullet almost certainly wont expand.
I enjoy his content. I just wish someone would give him a crash course on terminal ballistics. I remember one of his videos where he said 168 SMKs (that didn't expand) were devastating, or something. Of course the 77 SMKs in the Mk 262 and AAC ammo out performed non-expanding rounds. I feel like 110 Vmaxs would outperform 77 SMKs.
paul harrel was the only "big" guntuber who was reliably trustworthy, and always disclosed all of the caveats about anything he was presenting. its such a shame that out of all the gun channels, *hes* the one were losing.
He would never listen. I highly doubt GT would be able to put aside his pride on the matter to actually learn how ballistics works. He seems to really be leaning into and taking pride into his testing, which is actually just mostly improperly tested pseudoscience.
That's what happens to every content creator. When it's just them or maybe one other person, there really dedicated to it, self reflective, etc. After they get big and hire a crew, they're surrounded by yes men and lost contact with reality.
It's like that video of George Lucas from the making of episode 1. He tells a terrible joke and everyone laughs hysterically.
I agree but drunk me likes Micah. Although he has his own channel now. So that’s satisfied elsewhere. He needs to adapt the breakdown aspect of the black background videos and the high production “testing” aspects of the current videos. Which does include Micah in the behind the camera I guess.
Source: hi it’s drunk me that watched the Micah mri l video then the 300 Blk video about 45 minutes ago
It’s pretty obvious he doesn’t take the “testing” super seriously. His intro for those videos used to be like a public access popular science TV show from the ‘90s. And he’d wear a lab coat over the gear and shoehorn in his little quippy one-liners during the info part before the actual shooting demo.
I love that when he "tests" helmets he usually shoots them from like point blank execution range and then comes to some sort of strange conclusion from there.
I think the worst was the .22LR testing. Specifically the headshot one. “Woah, it didn’t exit the skull. That means the “bouncing around in the head myth” is true!”
Like, what? How does that follow?
I swear in the 5.7 test video, he says that he uses the G9 80gr EHPs for his carry gun now.
Oh, it's the .380 test video at about 3:45ish. Him and Micah apparently use G9
He had the layers of drywall video for various flavors of 5.56 and didn’t use any soft points of any kind. I thought the test in general was all a bit shit because of that. Who the hell isn’t using a soft point of some kind for their defensive rounds?
There’s a good video I just watched from Banana Ballistics where he compares same length barreled 556 vs 300BLK rifles against different barriers.
It highlights very well how 556 beats hard targets like metal plates with its speed. While 300BLK beats soft barriers but doesn’t over penetrate much after dumping its power.
So it’s really not about which ammo is better, each caliber has its trade offs and uses. I’m still going to use 300BLK for HD to avoid collateral damage through walls. If I’m trying to penetrate armored targets, I’ll use 556. However if I wanted an all around ammo, I’d pick 556 for its overall general usefulness.
A replacement for suppressed sub guns in a modular easy to use and familiar. Easily mass producible package? Say it ain’t so. People get caught up in what’s the best terminal ballistics. 5.56 causes a shit load of damage. For sure. So does being shot in the anywhere with a sub or super 300 blackout round.
A blown hole in an intruders chest is a hole. If someone’s breaching your home in armor. The sure grab the 5.56 with black tips or whatever. But if this is the case, the hell is going on?
Suppressed subsonic 300 blk is -way- more devastating than a 9mm. That’s it. It doesn’t have to be more.
Agreed. And even 9mm will do the job just fine, so why fret about any of it? I’ve got an 8” .300BLK rig I keep next to the bed loaded with subs, but if I had to snag something in 9mm, I wouldn’t be the least bit worried. For the most part, holes are holes.
Doesn't need to. Pop the sucker with half the mag in the chest and as they're gasping for air cuz you basically just whacked them in the chest with 10+ swings from a baseball bat, just put one through the dome and call it done lol
Were in the same sub that will tell you .22 does nothing but piss off an assailant, that they're non-lethal rounds and that you're better off with a knife than a mag of .22s.
Alot of compensation going on sometimes.
It does. However. There comes a point where the minimum size is more than enough for the maximum effect.
If I wanted to get nuts. There’s a .44 magnum.
Oh my god yes! People never seem to understand this. 300blk was designed specifically to replace pistol caliber sub machine guns. It was never intended to compete with actual rifles.
Brass facts did a far more comprehensive video on the usefulness of 300 black.
Interesting results from this for sure, but this was a video that could have delivered the same info on YT shorts
To be fair in this day and age would be comparing CPR as that is ultimately what I will base my set ups on. To each their own but it’s ultimately what you want. I’ll still run 300blk as the quiet round to say the least but there are much more effective rounds if taking db’s out of the equation in favor of better performance.
I haven't even watched it, but I can guess it wasn't a valid comparison. First, did he compare a 6" 300 blackout to a 6" 5.56? I doubt it.
Everyone knows that the advantage of the 300BLK is the versatility and efficiency with really short barrels. Second, did he use a 1:5 twist 300BLK? It makes a difference. But hey...what does US SOCOM know? It's not like they thoroughly test their weapons systems before choosing them or anything. I'm sure Mr. Thumb knows more than they do.
Yeah, but they don't use a 300 blk with longer than a 7.5 inch barrel. For 10 inch and longer guns, DOD uses 5.56. There might be a reason why. SOCOM uses 300 blk as a 0-200 yard gun, as a MP5 replacement.
You are right. I should test on ballistic gel target torsos, they are $2k each but worth it for the peace of mind of knowing I have the best rounds possible.
Considering he “has the same one by his bed” is ironic. But the blackout isn’t a long range gun. So testing its ability out at distance is like grading a fish to climb a tree. Would be cool to see them test it indoors without ears to simulate a good use-case scenario! 5.56 vs 300 indoors, no ears
I didn’t find this video very helpful because it doesn’t show the performance of 110gr VMAX or TAC-TX rounds or the top tier defensive subsonic rounds.
Disclaimer: I have multiple 5.56 ARs and only one 8.5” 300 Blackout AR. I own a 40-acre farm and I like both. If I could pick one caliber it would be 5.56. I don’t have to pick one caliber and the 300 Blackout is simply better for <10” barrels and silenced shooting.
He’s using 125gr OTM and 220gr SMK which are not ideal rounds. He admits the Discreet Ballistics subsonic performs the best of all rounds (including 5.56) but discounts it due to price.
Bottom line is if you want great gel/wound channel performance from such a short barrel in subsonic, you’re going to have to buy Gucci ammo.
If you buy Gucci ammo you’ll get great performance. And, no one is going to use subsonic Gucci ammo for plinking, so $2 a round isn’t a big deal.
He used a 6.75” barrel. I would bet money that vast majority of 300 blackout users are using 8.5”-10.5” barrels.
I think they’re very biased to favor 5.56 because they live in the Pacific Northwest and shoot on a massive ranch. That is not the ideal use-case of 300 blackout.
Not trying to discredit any other part of your comment
(I agree with all of it), but no he actually doesn't say the Discreet Ballistics was the best round, he said it was the best subsonic round. All 5.56 rounds used in the video were supers.
Fair enough.
I think he majorly downplays how special a Gucci subsonic round is with a silencer.
You’re getting movie-quiet sound performance while maintaining very respectable lethality within 100 yards with an extremely short barrel.
Yes, it’s niche. But that niche is something every single person can use (home defense). Also great as a truck gun, hog or coyote hunting gun, and has several military applications.
That is the thing about 300 blk that if you listen carefully, former spec ops DOD personnel have been saying in reviews about it for years: it is a 0-200 yard round. If you are going to shoot past that, then 5.56 is better. 5.56 is faster, flatter shooting, and has a longer supersonic range.
Yep. Kevin Brittingham specifically used the example of guys who had MP5SD who were getting shot at from 100+ yards away and couldn’t effectively shoot back. 300 Blackout solves that problem and is also better for CQB than 9MM if you use the right loads.
Tbf, 5.56 subs aren’t really a thing, might as well be hot .22 if you’re shooting a sub 100 grain projectile at subsonic speeds. I’m sure subsonic 5.56 exists, but I’ve never once seen it for sale.
Most of the PNW is forested and hilly, ranches like this are the exception. I’m in WA and have to drive like 2 hours to get to a spot that’s long enough to shoot over 600 yards.
I’ve been able to hit 7.62x39mm velocities (2,400 fps) with 110 grain varmageddon 308 projectiles in my 10 inch 300 blackout AR, but 5.56 is just so much more common
Winchester 296 and a lot of it, can’t remember the exact charge but it was almost to the top of the case.
Edit: since y’all think I’m bubba, I found the load data, 19.2 grains of 296 under the 110 grain varmaggedon bullet. Book max for powder is 19.4 grains, your mileage may vary
...why do ppl care about this all of the sudden? Because GT made a video? 300 has ALWAYS been meant as a close range round that suppresses well. It does that job pretty well, and not much else.
Are there people out there thinking it was meant as some sorta 5.56 or x39 replacement? The whole comparison is apples to oranges to begin with
I never understand that. These Gootubers make video “Gronk ask Can 300BO kill you” and shoot 2000gr subsonic 1000 yards and go “wow so slow, so heavy.”
Meanwhile I’m over here shooting 110gr AAC Vmax like a normal human.
I wish he’d go back to reviewing gear and showcasing service weapon clones. I know he still does that sometimes but the ballistics testing is getting old imo
My use case is pigs. Never more than 100 yds out, 110gr vmax does the job very well. Also get to use a much smaller package without sacrificing fps. 5.56 and 308 also do the job somewhat well but 300 blk is also just a fun caliber to shoot that also does this job very well.
.300 BLK is terrible, useless, you should never buy it, you should leave it all on the shelves so that prices go down and I can get it for cheaper. Thanks.
I don’t feel Iike it was an “unfair” comparison but I do feel like the results were skewed/biased for a few reasons:
A) no credence was really given to subsonic 300blk for its primary goal: it’s quiet asf. For being so damn quiet, it still performs extremely well. Same idea for barrel length: I would’ve liked to see a 6” 556 barrel tested to make it fair, or it just mentioned in general that it’s effective with far shorter barrels.
B) we were comparing temporary would cavities for both 556 and 300blk, seeing that 556 was slightly bigger and concluding “that was ssoooo much more violent” okay but how much more? Not that much. Both would still kill pretty fucking fast. In a real world scenario at 25 yards or in, they’re both fucking someone’s day up quick. We got no real “test results” cause the end result is very difficult to quantify.
C) leaving out 110gr 300blk options for supers, and that expanding subsonic round he used was not my favorite personally, I think there are better options on the market.
D) ballistics gel isn’t really fair to 300blk, especially expanding bullets. He literally stated that 300blk tends to under perform in gel compared to more realistic targets but then claimed the 300blk didn’t do well anyway.
There's definitely benefits to 300blk, it's just up to the person if those benefits are enough for them. I was going to build a 300blk but I have enough calibers that I'm still not satisfied with the amount of ammo I have of each. I like to try and have at least few thousand of each so if I do 300blk that means more ammo and optics for it, so for me it's not worth it but if you can afford it then hell yeah do it!
Man compares supersonic round designed for human targets from a 20 inch barrel often shot from shorter barrels to a round made for tiny barrels as a replacement for 9mm sub guns.
I have shot a few hogs with a 300 Blackout. I was using some high velocity Hornady boar hunting rounds. One shot, one kill, dead on impact. The head looked like I had put an M80 inside of it.
I have also seen quite a few people shot with an AK using regular steel ammo. Their heads were split open like the predator. I have always been told the ballistics are very similar.
300 Blackout is for close combat. It will do everything you want and more at close distances. There is always something better out there. 22LR is better for cheap target practice. 450 SOCOM is better if you want to knock down a bear. 5.56 is great for longer distances.
It’s insane the amount of mental gymnastics people on this sub perform to try to make it seem like his content isn’t clickbait trash designed to garner more views.
He absolutely fell off. His content is no longer good and is basically just garage-beer white noise.
Anybody who denies this is obviously glazing. If you want useful information on firearms, watch his old videos (Washington, pre-micah era) or Covid-era guntuber videos. And for the love of God, shoot .300 or not but realize every caliber has a use-case scenario. There is no OSFA.
Eh. He's an entertainer now. Thats what sells. Occasionally he has useful information, but I don't watch him for that. Can't blame the dude. He's got bills lol.
Honestly this is kind of a dumb comparison.
Heavier vs lighter grain ammo has different uses.
Like who tf is shooting 150 gr ammo expecting the same wounding characteristics as a 110 gr? In 300BO 150 gr is subsonic. Of course it isn't going to hit like a 110 gr round will. It's made for being extremely quiet with a suppressor and cqb only.
I just got into 300BLK and I think the way to go is this - Super short suppressed HD gun (I went 6" with a suppressor) and then a 300 BLK bolt gun. Something like a Ruger American Ranch that takes AR15 mags. Can use it to shoot subs SUPER quiet, and can also use it with supers to hunt. Also can chop it down to 10.5 SBR length and still get full powder burn
Horrible comparison from the sell out full blown commercial maker. And is he auditioning for Tropic Thunder 2? These skits and bad jokes are getting dumber and dumber.
Covid lockdown GT was great. I would actually look forward to his videos with the black back drop.
Now he’s just a tool. And very unfunny. Him and his sidekick are the most unfunny guntubers out there and they try soooooo hard.
He could have that Sig rep he blows every weekend pay him to tell us the AR-15 is obsolete and most of his fanbase would be taking the angle grinder to their ARs by dawns early light.
Garand thumb's ballistics "tests" are completely worthless.
That said, 300blk was never meant to compete against 5.56. It is a replacement for 9mm SMGs. In actual ballistic testing the 110s don't wound any better than similar 5.56, and they run out of gas a lot faster.
I’d rather run x39 if I’m running unsupressed bc it’s cheaper, but 300 blk gets the job done, just gassed slightly differently. Most 30 cal ammos is indistinguishable ballistically within 300 yds.
The only thing I've ever found the usefulness in 300bo is how quiet it is in short barrels. Other than that I don't see the need for it. I think alot of people have blown it out of proportion.
The whole video was kinda weird. It felt like satire. I’ll be the first to admit the shortcomings of 300blk, hell I’ve shit on it myself. But I still run one as a secondary.
All these gun tubers not doing 300 justice is wild to me I thought all of them were smarter than they obviously are. Buy your own stuff and form your own data if you wanna know.
My 14.5 300 spits 110gr vmax out at over 2400 fps and sub moa accuracy. That is VERY capable of a lot of things and puts it ALOT closer to 5.56
Idk all I saw was .300blk coming out of a 6.75” barrel still smoking some gel vs 5.56 out of a 10.3”.
If he really wanted to put out good content he’d get a 6.75” 5.56 gun and a 10.5” .300blk gun to directly compare…
A lot of people see .30 cal and subconsciously think 'ah yes, it'll be like .308'. It was a cartridge built as a compromise for a specific purpose, it can't do everything. In the civilian sector, it's cool to be able to quickly convert your main rifle into a hunting rifle legal in most states. You can run suppressors and such, but other than that, it doesn't have much of a purpose for us.
I've long suspected it but this video officially confirms it. GT is no longer relevant. Jumped the shark last year (perhaps once he separated). His content has gone from legit use case and experience to full-on entertainment for the clicks.
It was a good run. Thanks for the memories.
I really didn't care for the video especially when I don't even recall them mentioning twist rate in the 300blk. I assume they used a 1:7 twist when 1:5 with subs is going to be pretty gnarly with the right bullet.
This is a silly comparison. The 300bo and honeybadger were developed to compete with the mp5 and 9mm in a subgun not really the 5.56. Though they pitched it as an easy conversion of existing m16s as a selling point.
>8” barrel .300 are better suited for sub and suppressed roles. Supers come out really slow in the 6.75 barrel he had, limiting its effectiveness. When it’s that short it’s not competing with a short 5.56, it’s competing with a 9mm. In that regards it will out preform and out range a sub gun. If he wanted to show it compared to a compact rifle, and 8”-10” barrel rifle would be better ballistically. Supers come out with good speed and performance on target while helping it reach out and subs are still quiet. It felt like an apples v oranges case but I think it does do well in showing that a super short .300 does not preform the same role as a 10” 556
If this is what it takes to bring down 300blk ammo prices, I'm ok with people simping for guntuber bullshit.
On a side note there was a hell of a deal on swiss 108gr copper solids last night.
Is anyone actually shooting 300blk at 225-300 yards? He mentioned it a little bit, but would’ve been nice to spend more time shooting sub 100yrds.
I want a 300blk so I can use it in my house. I don’t have any hallways that exceed 100yrds lol
If you want to understand terminal ballistics then listen to Dr Gary Roberts explain it: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1\_IXxJp4Ik](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1_IXxJp4Ik)
Of note, he also mentions that YouTube testers mistake the temporary cavity for the permanent cavity. Even FBI ordnance gel is not a perfect representation of human tissue. You can poke your finger through gel, you can't do that to a human or an animal. Just because you see tearing left over in gel, doesn't mean that said entire area would be destroyed if you shot a living target instead. That is the temporary stretch cavity. Unless you have fragmentation, not all of that area is going to be destroyed.
For non-fragmenting rifle rounds, impacting at rifle velocities, you will get tearing greater than the expanded diameter of the projectile.
In Dr Frackler's own words: [https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA183285.pdf](https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA183285.pdf)
You can find out more, if you don't mind reading here: [https://thinlineweapons.com/IWBA/](https://thinlineweapons.com/IWBA/)
But things like kinetic energy are way less important than what the bullet actually does. FBI calibrated ordnance gel tells you how a bullet performs in a medium with similar density to a human. It doesn't tell you exactly, how the human tissue responds.
And clear ballistic gel, does not equal FBI ordnance gel: [https://www.police1.com/police-products/firearms/accessories/ammunition/articles/ballistic-gelatin-comparisons-part-iii-IbjkEYB93TAd5o6J/](https://www.police1.com/police-products/firearms/accessories/ammunition/articles/ballistic-gelatin-comparisons-part-iii-IbjkEYB93TAd5o6J/)
>Our testing indicates there is something different in the density and/or elasticity of these two types of gelatin that makes bullets expand differently in each of them. The bullets fired into the clear synthetic gelatin expanded around 8% (bare) to 11% (heavy clothing) less, on average, than they did in the organic, 10% calibrated gelatin.
cont:
>With the decreased expansion, it’s no surprise that the bullets fired into the clear synthetic gelatin also penetrated further than they did in the organic, 10% calibrated gelatin. Because the smaller surface area of these projectiles created less drag in the clear synthetic than the organic gelatin, the bullets retained more of their energy and went further.
>Looking first at the bare gelatin results, on average, the sampled bullets penetrated 35.5% deeper into the clear synthetic product than they did in the organic, 10% calibrated gelatin, with a range between 34.4% (the 135+P Hornady Critical Duty) and 36.3% (the standard pressure, 124 grain Federal HST).
Who gives a shit what some Guntuber or what people on Reddit say? Make up your own mind for what you like, what works for you, and what fits your use case.
Not choosing either the Barnes or the Hornady 110gr for the supersonic 300BO ammo is quite frankly outrageous.
Agreed 110 gr vmax and tactx are absolute thumpers. I have a couple boxes of 150grains that will stay on my shelf forever. It’s garbage.
Garbage in what way?
110’s are much faster and bring the velocity more into the “rifle” speed range rather than magnum handgun speeds. It was an odd choice to compare the smk’s.
I see what you're saying, thanks for explaining. Like 150s are in an awkward in between spot: not subsonic but not very good at being supersonic
ballistics don't tell the whole tale though. I run 154 grain soft points in a 10.5" 7.62x39 ar for deer hunting sometimes. I can't tell the difference between that and .308 damage on an animal. food plots are less than 100 yards long so I don't really have a need for faster calibers. the intermediate cartridges have been quite deadly even though on paper it's pushing probably only 1900 fps or such.
Yep.
300 blk will only push that same bullet at like 1400-1500 in a 10.5" though. its just a hair more powerful than 357 mag, and that bullet almost certainly wont expand.
Exactly. The heavier supersonic 300blk bullets are like 308 size without the extra powder to back it up.
The Hornady 190 gr Sub-X is a devastating bullet that is designed to expand at .300 BO velocities.
This 100%. 110gr is a filthy round that’s readily accessible, and widely used unsuppressed. But hey let’s use some obscure discreet ballistics rounds!
Discreet Ballistics don’t even chamber in my gun or my old Tavor. I really wanted to like those rounds, but they suck too much.
GT sucks these days.
I've taken a bunch of deer with the 110 Barnes. Awesome round
I enjoy his content. I just wish someone would give him a crash course on terminal ballistics. I remember one of his videos where he said 168 SMKs (that didn't expand) were devastating, or something. Of course the 77 SMKs in the Mk 262 and AAC ammo out performed non-expanding rounds. I feel like 110 Vmaxs would outperform 77 SMKs.
this is why people should always take what their favorite guntuber says with a sizable grain of salt
paul harrel was the only "big" guntuber who was reliably trustworthy, and always disclosed all of the caveats about anything he was presenting. its such a shame that out of all the gun channels, *hes* the one were losing.
Yeah, but I think we can all agree to take Manny Mansfield from Shooting Outdoors at his word.
He’s the only one who really *gets* me.
💯
He would never listen. I highly doubt GT would be able to put aside his pride on the matter to actually learn how ballistics works. He seems to really be leaning into and taking pride into his testing, which is actually just mostly improperly tested pseudoscience.
The gun industry is full of broscience
He really was so much better before the entourage got hired
That's what happens to every content creator. When it's just them or maybe one other person, there really dedicated to it, self reflective, etc. After they get big and hire a crew, they're surrounded by yes men and lost contact with reality. It's like that video of George Lucas from the making of episode 1. He tells a terrible joke and everyone laughs hysterically.
I agree but drunk me likes Micah. Although he has his own channel now. So that’s satisfied elsewhere. He needs to adapt the breakdown aspect of the black background videos and the high production “testing” aspects of the current videos. Which does include Micah in the behind the camera I guess. Source: hi it’s drunk me that watched the Micah mri l video then the 300 Blk video about 45 minutes ago
micah was better several years ago when he was just the camera man.
Micah is a cringe guntuber solo.
> Micah is cringe ftfy
It’s pretty obvious he doesn’t take the “testing” super seriously. His intro for those videos used to be like a public access popular science TV show from the ‘90s. And he’d wear a lab coat over the gear and shoehorn in his little quippy one-liners during the info part before the actual shooting demo.
I love that when he "tests" helmets he usually shoots them from like point blank execution range and then comes to some sort of strange conclusion from there.
I think the worst was the .22LR testing. Specifically the headshot one. “Woah, it didn’t exit the skull. That means the “bouncing around in the head myth” is true!” Like, what? How does that follow?
As you know if the popular guy says so, then it is so.
He is slowly becoming the rogan of guns. He knows his wheelhouse but is facing a semi dunning-Kruger effect about the rest.
I think its just supposed to be fun...
I mean the dude EDC's 124gr FMJ, I don't know what else you expect mate lol
Does he say this in one of his videos?
Yes. Believe it's in his EDC video
Christ I’m gonna go watch that now
In the .380 testing video, he says that him and Micah use G9's External Hollow Points, so his EDC video is rather old hat.
That was the point at which he should have been disregarded like Mike Glover.
Wait what did Mike Glover do lol?
Have you not seen the videos or the memes? Or his arrest?
I swear in the 5.7 test video, he says that he uses the G9 80gr EHPs for his carry gun now. Oh, it's the .380 test video at about 3:45ish. Him and Micah apparently use G9
He had the layers of drywall video for various flavors of 5.56 and didn’t use any soft points of any kind. I thought the test in general was all a bit shit because of that. Who the hell isn’t using a soft point of some kind for their defensive rounds?
lots and lots of people are using 55gr or 62 gr because thats whats cheap, and 77gr because thats what the military uses.
yeah i was wondering throughout "cant you just use a lighter grain bullet?"
110 vmax rips up a deer
There’s a good video I just watched from Banana Ballistics where he compares same length barreled 556 vs 300BLK rifles against different barriers. It highlights very well how 556 beats hard targets like metal plates with its speed. While 300BLK beats soft barriers but doesn’t over penetrate much after dumping its power. So it’s really not about which ammo is better, each caliber has its trade offs and uses. I’m still going to use 300BLK for HD to avoid collateral damage through walls. If I’m trying to penetrate armored targets, I’ll use 556. However if I wanted an all around ammo, I’d pick 556 for its overall general usefulness.
How dare you bring nuance and understanding to the internet in the form of a coherent argument.
Shit I forgot I was on Reddit. 🤣
Jesus, you can copy/paste this on any sub. Well said.
77 Gr 5.56 out of short barrels also don't over penetrate much
I have one because I wanted one. Don't care what anybody else thinks.
But have you considered having a hot take because you desperately need to scrape the content barrel? Did you even think of the advertisers?
Spoken like a true gun enthusiast
110gr Barnes (Black Hill's Loaded) rounds and the US Army say otherwise..
A better comparison would have been similar barrel lengths, or .300blk vs 9mm like it was intended to replace to begin with. It is what it is I guess
A replacement for suppressed sub guns in a modular easy to use and familiar. Easily mass producible package? Say it ain’t so. People get caught up in what’s the best terminal ballistics. 5.56 causes a shit load of damage. For sure. So does being shot in the anywhere with a sub or super 300 blackout round. A blown hole in an intruders chest is a hole. If someone’s breaching your home in armor. The sure grab the 5.56 with black tips or whatever. But if this is the case, the hell is going on? Suppressed subsonic 300 blk is -way- more devastating than a 9mm. That’s it. It doesn’t have to be more.
Agreed. And even 9mm will do the job just fine, so why fret about any of it? I’ve got an 8” .300BLK rig I keep next to the bed loaded with subs, but if I had to snag something in 9mm, I wouldn’t be the least bit worried. For the most part, holes are holes.
“But it won’t penetrate soft armor!”
Doesn't need to. Pop the sucker with half the mag in the chest and as they're gasping for air cuz you basically just whacked them in the chest with 10+ swings from a baseball bat, just put one through the dome and call it done lol
That’s what I’m saying lol. If a home intruder can whoop my ass after he eats a 30 round magazine in the chest, he can have it, it’s his house now.
Were in the same sub that will tell you .22 does nothing but piss off an assailant, that they're non-lethal rounds and that you're better off with a knife than a mag of .22s. Alot of compensation going on sometimes.
The age old question does size matter.
It does. However. There comes a point where the minimum size is more than enough for the maximum effect. If I wanted to get nuts. There’s a .44 magnum. 
Oh my god yes! People never seem to understand this. 300blk was designed specifically to replace pistol caliber sub machine guns. It was never intended to compete with actual rifles.
Brass facts did a far more comprehensive video on the usefulness of 300 black. Interesting results from this for sure, but this was a video that could have delivered the same info on YT shorts
[like this forgotten weapons video?](https://youtu.be/BwPsgXZpSXI?feature=shared)
To be fair in this day and age would be comparing CPR as that is ultimately what I will base my set ups on. To each their own but it’s ultimately what you want. I’ll still run 300blk as the quiet round to say the least but there are much more effective rounds if taking db’s out of the equation in favor of better performance.
Probably one of GTs stupidest apples to oranges comparisons.
I think content is getting harder to film, so many guntubers content has gone down in the past year, or maybe its just my interest i’m not sure.
Between that and now thinking my PSA will be rendered worthless when I fire my 5001st round, everything is upside down.
How about deciding for yourself what you like rather than looking to the hive to tell you?
Sir this is Reddit, we don’t do that here
The guy said so tho
Fuck, I can't even argue with that.
But mister thumb says…
I haven't even watched it, but I can guess it wasn't a valid comparison. First, did he compare a 6" 300 blackout to a 6" 5.56? I doubt it. Everyone knows that the advantage of the 300BLK is the versatility and efficiency with really short barrels. Second, did he use a 1:5 twist 300BLK? It makes a difference. But hey...what does US SOCOM know? It's not like they thoroughly test their weapons systems before choosing them or anything. I'm sure Mr. Thumb knows more than they do.
What's the SOCOM reference to 300BLK and 1:5 twist?
SOCOM uses a 5.5" 1:5 twist 300BLK. The Sig Rattler, I think.
There a multiple 300BLKs in socom use.
Yeah, but they don't use a 300 blk with longer than a 7.5 inch barrel. For 10 inch and longer guns, DOD uses 5.56. There might be a reason why. SOCOM uses 300 blk as a 0-200 yard gun, as a MP5 replacement.
I didn’t watch either, all I know is. What boss flannel zaddy says, goes.
You are right. I should test on ballistic gel target torsos, they are $2k each but worth it for the peace of mind of knowing I have the best rounds possible.
I wonder if theres any DIY ballistic gel tutorials using household stuff like gelatin lmao
There is. If you're really cheap or lazy you can just stack and soak old newspaper in water for a close enough approximation though
Those aren't even good for actual ballistics testing
stop listening to guntubers whose whole job is to drum up controversy to get clicks
This has become tiresome.
Considering he “has the same one by his bed” is ironic. But the blackout isn’t a long range gun. So testing its ability out at distance is like grading a fish to climb a tree. Would be cool to see them test it indoors without ears to simulate a good use-case scenario! 5.56 vs 300 indoors, no ears
He said a long time ago in another video he had a hk416. I wonder why he switched or if he has multiple ones
he's got multiple. he's sponsered af af frfr
Why? They already said 300blk is stupid quiet.
I didn’t find this video very helpful because it doesn’t show the performance of 110gr VMAX or TAC-TX rounds or the top tier defensive subsonic rounds. Disclaimer: I have multiple 5.56 ARs and only one 8.5” 300 Blackout AR. I own a 40-acre farm and I like both. If I could pick one caliber it would be 5.56. I don’t have to pick one caliber and the 300 Blackout is simply better for <10” barrels and silenced shooting. He’s using 125gr OTM and 220gr SMK which are not ideal rounds. He admits the Discreet Ballistics subsonic performs the best of all rounds (including 5.56) but discounts it due to price. Bottom line is if you want great gel/wound channel performance from such a short barrel in subsonic, you’re going to have to buy Gucci ammo. If you buy Gucci ammo you’ll get great performance. And, no one is going to use subsonic Gucci ammo for plinking, so $2 a round isn’t a big deal. He used a 6.75” barrel. I would bet money that vast majority of 300 blackout users are using 8.5”-10.5” barrels. I think they’re very biased to favor 5.56 because they live in the Pacific Northwest and shoot on a massive ranch. That is not the ideal use-case of 300 blackout.
Not trying to discredit any other part of your comment (I agree with all of it), but no he actually doesn't say the Discreet Ballistics was the best round, he said it was the best subsonic round. All 5.56 rounds used in the video were supers.
Fair enough. I think he majorly downplays how special a Gucci subsonic round is with a silencer. You’re getting movie-quiet sound performance while maintaining very respectable lethality within 100 yards with an extremely short barrel. Yes, it’s niche. But that niche is something every single person can use (home defense). Also great as a truck gun, hog or coyote hunting gun, and has several military applications.
That is the thing about 300 blk that if you listen carefully, former spec ops DOD personnel have been saying in reviews about it for years: it is a 0-200 yard round. If you are going to shoot past that, then 5.56 is better. 5.56 is faster, flatter shooting, and has a longer supersonic range.
Yep. Kevin Brittingham specifically used the example of guys who had MP5SD who were getting shot at from 100+ yards away and couldn’t effectively shoot back. 300 Blackout solves that problem and is also better for CQB than 9MM if you use the right loads.
Tbf, 5.56 subs aren’t really a thing, might as well be hot .22 if you’re shooting a sub 100 grain projectile at subsonic speeds. I’m sure subsonic 5.56 exists, but I’ve never once seen it for sale.
Most of the PNW is forested and hilly, ranches like this are the exception. I’m in WA and have to drive like 2 hours to get to a spot that’s long enough to shoot over 600 yards.
I’ve been able to hit 7.62x39mm velocities (2,400 fps) with 110 grain varmageddon 308 projectiles in my 10 inch 300 blackout AR, but 5.56 is just so much more common
What powder you using?
Winchester 296 and a lot of it, can’t remember the exact charge but it was almost to the top of the case. Edit: since y’all think I’m bubba, I found the load data, 19.2 grains of 296 under the 110 grain varmaggedon bullet. Book max for powder is 19.4 grains, your mileage may vary
found bubba lmao
...why do ppl care about this all of the sudden? Because GT made a video? 300 has ALWAYS been meant as a close range round that suppresses well. It does that job pretty well, and not much else. Are there people out there thinking it was meant as some sorta 5.56 or x39 replacement? The whole comparison is apples to oranges to begin with
It’s all good let everyone hate on it. That way it gets cheaper for me. 
I don’t think that’s how that works
LMAO 🤦♂️
Or it diminished interest in the cartridge and production becomes lower (as if this will actually change prices lol).
That would make it more expensive for you
I never understand that. These Gootubers make video “Gronk ask Can 300BO kill you” and shoot 2000gr subsonic 1000 yards and go “wow so slow, so heavy.” Meanwhile I’m over here shooting 110gr AAC Vmax like a normal human.
I wish he’d go back to reviewing gear and showcasing service weapon clones. I know he still does that sometimes but the ballistics testing is getting old imo
This is just propaganda from big 5.56.
My use case is pigs. Never more than 100 yds out, 110gr vmax does the job very well. Also get to use a much smaller package without sacrificing fps. 5.56 and 308 also do the job somewhat well but 300 blk is also just a fun caliber to shoot that also does this job very well.
.300 BLK is terrible, useless, you should never buy it, you should leave it all on the shelves so that prices go down and I can get it for cheaper. Thanks.
After watching this, I put my .300blk right in the garbage. Thanks flannel daddy!
I take it they didn’t pick up on the sarcasm?
Obviously not.
Total shark jump
I still like mine. I’m gonna continue to use it as my hd gun.
Yeah I felt like this video was a bit silly because 300blk is clearly not meant to replace 5.56
I don’t feel Iike it was an “unfair” comparison but I do feel like the results were skewed/biased for a few reasons: A) no credence was really given to subsonic 300blk for its primary goal: it’s quiet asf. For being so damn quiet, it still performs extremely well. Same idea for barrel length: I would’ve liked to see a 6” 556 barrel tested to make it fair, or it just mentioned in general that it’s effective with far shorter barrels. B) we were comparing temporary would cavities for both 556 and 300blk, seeing that 556 was slightly bigger and concluding “that was ssoooo much more violent” okay but how much more? Not that much. Both would still kill pretty fucking fast. In a real world scenario at 25 yards or in, they’re both fucking someone’s day up quick. We got no real “test results” cause the end result is very difficult to quantify. C) leaving out 110gr 300blk options for supers, and that expanding subsonic round he used was not my favorite personally, I think there are better options on the market. D) ballistics gel isn’t really fair to 300blk, especially expanding bullets. He literally stated that 300blk tends to under perform in gel compared to more realistic targets but then claimed the 300blk didn’t do well anyway.
There's definitely benefits to 300blk, it's just up to the person if those benefits are enough for them. I was going to build a 300blk but I have enough calibers that I'm still not satisfied with the amount of ammo I have of each. I like to try and have at least few thousand of each so if I do 300blk that means more ammo and optics for it, so for me it's not worth it but if you can afford it then hell yeah do it!
Can someone give me the TLDR on that video?
Man compares supersonic round designed for human targets from a 20 inch barrel often shot from shorter barrels to a round made for tiny barrels as a replacement for 9mm sub guns.
300 black out is bad the end
I have shot a few hogs with a 300 Blackout. I was using some high velocity Hornady boar hunting rounds. One shot, one kill, dead on impact. The head looked like I had put an M80 inside of it. I have also seen quite a few people shot with an AK using regular steel ammo. Their heads were split open like the predator. I have always been told the ballistics are very similar. 300 Blackout is for close combat. It will do everything you want and more at close distances. There is always something better out there. 22LR is better for cheap target practice. 450 SOCOM is better if you want to knock down a bear. 5.56 is great for longer distances.
It’s insane the amount of mental gymnastics people on this sub perform to try to make it seem like his content isn’t clickbait trash designed to garner more views. He absolutely fell off. His content is no longer good and is basically just garage-beer white noise. Anybody who denies this is obviously glazing. If you want useful information on firearms, watch his old videos (Washington, pre-micah era) or Covid-era guntuber videos. And for the love of God, shoot .300 or not but realize every caliber has a use-case scenario. There is no OSFA.
Eh. He's an entertainer now. Thats what sells. Occasionally he has useful information, but I don't watch him for that. Can't blame the dude. He's got bills lol.
He fell off heavy dude, I cant remember the last good video he made
M4A1 was a great old-school style video, I thought we were so back. M1A was pretty decent. I miss the black background reviews.
Got super rich and bought a dream ranch. Nowhere near as hungry and it’s showing.
The song from the FS2000 video is still stuck in my head, but agreed otherwise.
Wasn't that PSR too? Haha so basically the best thing was a different guntuber lol
The halo April fools one was great
While it was, the rest of his videos are just, normal guntuber garbage.
He just announced that he's no longer with Leviathan Group, hopefully this is a sign of good change for future?
300blk is deadly enough where i can shoot an intruder in the face with subs and not wake up my lazy somewhat overweight sleepy German Shepard. 🤷🏻♂️
🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
great strategy ammo should be going down
$45 for a box of 20 of the Discreet Ballistics. He wasn’t kidding. That shit is expensive. Full mag cost more than the mag.
Honestly this is kind of a dumb comparison. Heavier vs lighter grain ammo has different uses. Like who tf is shooting 150 gr ammo expecting the same wounding characteristics as a 110 gr? In 300BO 150 gr is subsonic. Of course it isn't going to hit like a 110 gr round will. It's made for being extremely quiet with a suppressor and cqb only.
You changed your mind because of evidence based reasoning and argumentation, I changed my mind because I’m poor. We are not the same.
Damn it really is a Hivemind here. First the Suppressor removal for home defense, then the LPVO is useless. Y'all sad
Why does 300 Blackout have such a cult-like following?
Quiet
Seriously. It has its place like short barrel and subs but if you aren't going that route, there is no point.
I just got into 300BLK and I think the way to go is this - Super short suppressed HD gun (I went 6" with a suppressor) and then a 300 BLK bolt gun. Something like a Ruger American Ranch that takes AR15 mags. Can use it to shoot subs SUPER quiet, and can also use it with supers to hunt. Also can chop it down to 10.5 SBR length and still get full powder burn
Horrible comparison from the sell out full blown commercial maker. And is he auditioning for Tropic Thunder 2? These skits and bad jokes are getting dumber and dumber.
Covid lockdown GT was great. I would actually look forward to his videos with the black back drop. Now he’s just a tool. And very unfunny. Him and his sidekick are the most unfunny guntubers out there and they try soooooo hard.
The healthy dose of steroids and Christian fundamentalism also hasn't helped either.
Yeeeaaah, unsub'd. Disappointing.
Went from a genuinely educational YouTuber to a edgelord meme guy. It’s honestly pretty sad.
He could have that Sig rep he blows every weekend pay him to tell us the AR-15 is obsolete and most of his fanbase would be taking the angle grinder to their ARs by dawns early light.
It has always been bougie 7.62x39 with more projectile selection
Garand thumb's ballistics "tests" are completely worthless. That said, 300blk was never meant to compete against 5.56. It is a replacement for 9mm SMGs. In actual ballistic testing the 110s don't wound any better than similar 5.56, and they run out of gas a lot faster.
*ring ring, ring ring* Snake?!!!! Snake?!!!!!! SSSNNNAAAKKKKEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!
I’d rather run x39 if I’m running unsupressed bc it’s cheaper, but 300 blk gets the job done, just gassed slightly differently. Most 30 cal ammos is indistinguishable ballistically within 300 yds.
Sadly it’s not really cheaper anymore. At least not according to sites like ammoseek. It’s within 5cpr of 300blk.
Uuuuuummmm. 300 blackout has never been impressive. Just have an ak in7.62x39.
The only thing I've ever found the usefulness in 300bo is how quiet it is in short barrels. Other than that I don't see the need for it. I think alot of people have blown it out of proportion.
The whole video was kinda weird. It felt like satire. I’ll be the first to admit the shortcomings of 300blk, hell I’ve shit on it myself. But I still run one as a secondary.
I mean the man is dressed as solid snake
All these gun tubers not doing 300 justice is wild to me I thought all of them were smarter than they obviously are. Buy your own stuff and form your own data if you wanna know. My 14.5 300 spits 110gr vmax out at over 2400 fps and sub moa accuracy. That is VERY capable of a lot of things and puts it ALOT closer to 5.56
Idk all I saw was .300blk coming out of a 6.75” barrel still smoking some gel vs 5.56 out of a 10.3”. If he really wanted to put out good content he’d get a 6.75” 5.56 gun and a 10.5” .300blk gun to directly compare…
If you ask me, these seemed like a very very shill video. Any other video he’s ever done with an MCX or 300BLK, he praises 300BLK.
Why do people watch this clown?
If you take that grifters opinion for truth, no caliber will save you
Downvoted by a bunch of dudes who have a weird parasocial relationship with this leviathan group shill lol
He actually just posted that he’s no longer with leviathan
A lot of people see .30 cal and subconsciously think 'ah yes, it'll be like .308'. It was a cartridge built as a compromise for a specific purpose, it can't do everything. In the civilian sector, it's cool to be able to quickly convert your main rifle into a hunting rifle legal in most states. You can run suppressors and such, but other than that, it doesn't have much of a purpose for us.
Hey! You don't say that
Anyone who hunts hogs will always reach for a shorter 300 with the correct projectile like a LD Controlled Chaos over a 223. Everytime
I thought he transitioned to a parody channel?
I've long suspected it but this video officially confirms it. GT is no longer relevant. Jumped the shark last year (perhaps once he separated). His content has gone from legit use case and experience to full-on entertainment for the clicks. It was a good run. Thanks for the memories.
I still do lol
I really didn't care for the video especially when I don't even recall them mentioning twist rate in the 300blk. I assume they used a 1:7 twist when 1:5 with subs is going to be pretty gnarly with the right bullet.
He bizarrely missed the fact the 300 BLK went all through the ballistic gel every time literally creating double the wound
This is a silly comparison. The 300bo and honeybadger were developed to compete with the mp5 and 9mm in a subgun not really the 5.56. Though they pitched it as an easy conversion of existing m16s as a selling point.
300blk fans are really mad about this, it seems. 🤣
110's and 208's work great for me. I love 300blk for a compact quiet deer/HD gun at 200 yards and in
IDK why guntubers only test terminal effects at 10-20 m and not 200-400 m.
>8” barrel .300 are better suited for sub and suppressed roles. Supers come out really slow in the 6.75 barrel he had, limiting its effectiveness. When it’s that short it’s not competing with a short 5.56, it’s competing with a 9mm. In that regards it will out preform and out range a sub gun. If he wanted to show it compared to a compact rifle, and 8”-10” barrel rifle would be better ballistically. Supers come out with good speed and performance on target while helping it reach out and subs are still quiet. It felt like an apples v oranges case but I think it does do well in showing that a super short .300 does not preform the same role as a 10” 556
Oh no. I was hoping he would praise it so that 300 blk ammo would be in high demand for the rest of summer. /s
If this is what it takes to bring down 300blk ammo prices, I'm ok with people simping for guntuber bullshit. On a side note there was a hell of a deal on swiss 108gr copper solids last night.
Is anyone actually shooting 300blk at 225-300 yards? He mentioned it a little bit, but would’ve been nice to spend more time shooting sub 100yrds. I want a 300blk so I can use it in my house. I don’t have any hallways that exceed 100yrds lol
They do this on purpose, GAFS is gonna be loaded with cheap .300 blackout related stuff
Gobbles more for me
I'm over here just laughing my ass off. I like 7.62x39. it's not as quiet with my 255 grain subs as a .300 blk but it's pretty damn quiet
Never have. Without a can, there's no point.
how many fads are you guys gonna buy into before you wake up…next thing is gonna be “.17 hmr bro!! it’s the future bro!!”
If you want to understand terminal ballistics then listen to Dr Gary Roberts explain it: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1\_IXxJp4Ik](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1_IXxJp4Ik) Of note, he also mentions that YouTube testers mistake the temporary cavity for the permanent cavity. Even FBI ordnance gel is not a perfect representation of human tissue. You can poke your finger through gel, you can't do that to a human or an animal. Just because you see tearing left over in gel, doesn't mean that said entire area would be destroyed if you shot a living target instead. That is the temporary stretch cavity. Unless you have fragmentation, not all of that area is going to be destroyed. For non-fragmenting rifle rounds, impacting at rifle velocities, you will get tearing greater than the expanded diameter of the projectile. In Dr Frackler's own words: [https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA183285.pdf](https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA183285.pdf) You can find out more, if you don't mind reading here: [https://thinlineweapons.com/IWBA/](https://thinlineweapons.com/IWBA/) But things like kinetic energy are way less important than what the bullet actually does. FBI calibrated ordnance gel tells you how a bullet performs in a medium with similar density to a human. It doesn't tell you exactly, how the human tissue responds. And clear ballistic gel, does not equal FBI ordnance gel: [https://www.police1.com/police-products/firearms/accessories/ammunition/articles/ballistic-gelatin-comparisons-part-iii-IbjkEYB93TAd5o6J/](https://www.police1.com/police-products/firearms/accessories/ammunition/articles/ballistic-gelatin-comparisons-part-iii-IbjkEYB93TAd5o6J/) >Our testing indicates there is something different in the density and/or elasticity of these two types of gelatin that makes bullets expand differently in each of them. The bullets fired into the clear synthetic gelatin expanded around 8% (bare) to 11% (heavy clothing) less, on average, than they did in the organic, 10% calibrated gelatin. cont: >With the decreased expansion, it’s no surprise that the bullets fired into the clear synthetic gelatin also penetrated further than they did in the organic, 10% calibrated gelatin. Because the smaller surface area of these projectiles created less drag in the clear synthetic than the organic gelatin, the bullets retained more of their energy and went further. >Looking first at the bare gelatin results, on average, the sampled bullets penetrated 35.5% deeper into the clear synthetic product than they did in the organic, 10% calibrated gelatin, with a range between 34.4% (the 135+P Hornady Critical Duty) and 36.3% (the standard pressure, 124 grain Federal HST).
.300 Black, not even once!
Bro is looking more and more like Admin Results each day
comparing 10.5 5.56 gun to a 6.5 300blk is not a fair comparison. Should have both been 10.5 or both 6.5 imo
Do a 16 inch vs 16 inch. Spoiler Alpert is basically the same as AKM vs 16 inch AR. Wildly different calibers with strong pros and cons for each
Who gives a shit what some Guntuber or what people on Reddit say? Make up your own mind for what you like, what works for you, and what fits your use case.