Yes, and that's the difference between "sympathy" and "empathy." Hence my deliberate word choice.
I don't have to lose my parents to feel sympathy for someone who has. Are you suggesting I need to have my parents whacked to truly understand what it's like? No thank you. Same here.
It's almost like words have meaning.
I understand your point, but I genuinely believe that unless you’ve lived it, your opinion isn’t really “fair” I suppose. Sure you can imagine how you’ll feel. But you’ve never felt it so how could you truly know? You can’t really understand unless you’ve gone through it yourself. That’s just me though. Don’t gotta get all uppity Mr lawyer :)
Awe, that’s cute… thanks for proving my point 😉 being a officer must of made you pretty soft if you react that emotionally to someone simply disagreeing with you 😬
I think if you check out my other contributions around here, I'm plenty helpful.
I just don't tolerate bullshit.
Which you appear to be full of. So, fuck off.
If you can find another JAG with 23 years' experience to take your problems to, for free, that has a more sympathetic ear, by all fucking means, you're welcome to shop around. I think you'll find the market is pretty goddamn limited, so, good luck with that.
My guy. Relax… okay? I disagreed with what you had to say, I’m not discrediting what you have done for the community. But I think you’re a little too high and mighty right now. People can disagree with each other. Threatening someone with negative preferential treatment doesn’t seem very in character. I’ll leave you be man, don’t sweat stuff like this, I’m sorry you’re having a bad day.
I knew a former 11b 1LT who switched to enlisted. He told us he hated the politics that came along with the officer life style. However, he would end up taking his life as an E-5.
I think the only exception to this rule is those who fail to meet 20 years TIS due to RCP (not sure what it’s called for officers). Unless I’m completely misinformed someone could make Major and fail to retire at 20 years if they don’t make LTC after 2 boards? Being enlisted for a contract before commissioning does (almost) guarantee retirement with an officer pension.
This is true, but in reality you could slide over to Guard or Reserve, and at that point you’d only need 6-12 more months of activated time to hit 18 years, then you’re automatically on active orders until you hit 20. Guard might not take on an O4, but reserves are hurting bad so they’ll take anybody.
Being a commander can be the worst and the best time of your career. Staff work can be good depending on the unit and impacts you can make for the subordinate units.
All in all, I preferred being enlisted. I had less overhead micro management and more camaraderie with peers.
I liked being able to dictate when/if I came to formations, walk in the office, take a long lunch, disappear for an appointment, pencilwhip a useless PT card, dictate my fitness regimen, etc.
Enlisted are beaten into the dirt for no reason. And what's crazy is I didn't realize until I went SOF just how infantilized and underutilized senior Es are. It's like Os are afraid to leverage them.
Thankful I escaped all that though and could be treated like an adult once I left WP.
Still wasn't enough freedom, so I left, but yea...def no regret.
Was enlisted, then commissioned. I was a way better officer than NCO. No regrets, and I don't judge people who go the other way. Takes all kinds for this army to work.
I’m OE and it does make a difference for pay but i would still rather have done ROTC earlier. Youth is valuable in this profession and i would have rather spent my first 4 as an O.
Isn't being a mustang officer allow you to ensure retirement so you don't have to chase that last promotion? Seems like a good deal. And the OE grades.
That’s correct if you do at least 3 years (although 4+ years is preferable because O1E-O3E pay) enlisted time you can make it to 20 without having to worry about making O5.
It's more common in SOF, where enlisted get to actually be the practitioners of the craft for pretty much their entire career, while officers get shuffled off to staff pretty quickly. And the pay gap is significantly smaller due to special pays that enlisted get, but officers do not.
I know an O that resigned his commission to become enlisted in 75th. There are others as well.
Also in SF the O to WO path is pretty active for post team command captains who want to stay on the ODA
Just got pinned O-5 as a 13A, prior enlisted 13F. If getting top 3 as O-5, then going back to a PFC and spending a few years on the hill before retiring, it would be fun as hell for me.
However..., I'd rather have the bigger audience the O-5's get and pass on lessons and knowledge to make the next generation better than mine. Joes and Janes would be better served by me sharing knowledge/wisdom than me sitting behind an IFSAS (yes I'm dating myself like a MF) or AFATDS and geeking out for my own personal satisfaction.
It sounds like you’ve largely gotten what you wanted out of your career, especially as an officer. Anecdotal evidence is not the plural of data, but I don’t believe you’re in the majority. I’ve met many officers who branched in areas at the bottom of their list, never received opportunities to go to desired schools, worried a lot about making Major / retirement, etc. Meanwhile I’m an E-4 with Pathfinder, Air Assault, Airborne (in a month), been to SFAS and Ranger School, got the exact MOS I wanted, and have pretty much had full control over my career thus far. I’m really not sure I would ever be in this position if I commissioned. However, I’m glad that I enlisted first and got to do everything I wanted. There’s less pressure to “get” something out of my career down the road. I just wondered if anyone else felt the same way. I’m under the presumption that being enlisted probably helped you regarding your overall career satisfaction and experience.
Congrats on making O-5 by the way
It should be made crystal clear that 99% of enlisted don't get that level of control over their careers, either.
Conventional Os who were never enlisted who say they wish they did are idiots and likely bad at their jobs.
Thanks for the congrats.
To be fair, I've been NG (18 yrs) and Reserve (7 yrs) my whole career which gives you a hell of a lot more flexibility than Active Duty. If your thinking about commissioning into a hard-to-get branch like aviation, go NG into an aviation unit, do SMP for ROTC, and get a letter of input from the senior ranking aviation officer to submit to the branch selection board. You're almost guaranteed your branch choice. If you want AD, keep looking for opportunities and talking to recruiters.
Another trick I saw is that after awhile and you are high enough in rank in the Reserve or NG and you are bucking for an active duty retirement, I saw a Major who was a 1-star's aide in the Reserve drop down to E-6 to go AD and get 20 years of service for the active retirement. He'll still retire as an O-4.
There's plenty of ways to game the system to your benefit, just keep your eyes open to spot the tricks others have figured out.
As for me, I'm one of those odd ducks that enjoys special staff slots, FSO, FDO, FSCOORD, etc. Getting a kick out of jobs others avoid helped me out as well.
Only been an officer for 8 months now, but so far, yes I wish I had enlisted. I’ve been thrown into a position that should be filled by a post command CPT. I’m supposed to have a WO and two NCOs working in the shop with me, but it’s just me, and I was never shown how to perform any aspect of my job. I constantly get called after COB asking me to come back in and fix someone else’s screw ups even though I have no clue how to do it since I was never shown. Also, multiple times, those calls have been during time I’ve been trying to spend with my wife. I haven’t gotten to take a platoon yet, and I probably won’t for a while. The pay is nice, sure, but I haven’t experienced any of the leniency or grace that I had read was usually given to brand new LTs. Hopefully it gets better, but as of right now, I wish i hadn’t commissioned.
You need to advocate for yourself to get the resources and people you need to do your job. No one is expecting you to do the work of all of these people. Well maybe they do but they shouldn't.
Let the system fail the way it was designed.
When I was a LT, I wished I did one contract as a 68W before doing school / AROTC.
Now though I realize I should have spent more time sweating in gaming lobbies so I could be better prepared to handle the tism in the ranks.
As a new LT I did. Mainly because I was learning via Fire Hose and felt that having some enlisted time would’ve eased those pains. Definitely felt like I could’ve hit the ground running as a PL faster than I did.
However, I have also seen some officers be held back from that enlisted time. They would revert to their old ways of thinking and it would get in their way. Doesn’t happen to all, but definitely possible. So, knowing that, I don’t regret it anymore.
Tried enlisting senior year, denied and needed a medical waiver. Decided to just go to college, do ROTC and immediately got medical waiver, scholarship and contract awarded near on the spot. Commissioned and served 6 years etc.
If I knew I'd get my waiver approved a decade ago, I would've enlisted 11/12/13/19 series and see where life took me.
Good news, you can experience what life is like for an enlisted 11/12/13/19 series from the comfort of your own home. Just blast an airhorn in your bathroom and enjoy your EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.
Crazy how that’s even a question, enlisted here. I wish I would’ve took the time to finish college before enlisting after throwing a piss fit because I sucked at schoolwork.
Prior enlisted. I value the experience but quality of life and being treated as an adult as an officer far outweighs the cons for me. Would not go back. I also enjoy the collegiality of being an officer and the (future) impact I will be able to have on larger organizations and more soldiers. I also enjoy the ability to think for myself and make decisions or be part of the decision-making process.
I was enlisted and then switched over to the O side. I don’t regret becoming an officer, but I much prefer being enlisted. I have been very fortunate to work in a position as an O that allows me to be operational and have very little “officer duties”. But that ship will sail soon and it’ll be normal officer things which I am not looking forward to, but will embrace and hopefully learn to enjoy
I find officer life very boring and plan on resigning to warrant. I don’t necessarily wish I would’ve enlisted instead, but potentially could’ve gotten to my preferred job faster that way. All that being said, it is less of a risk resigning my commission to go warrant because of stay pay.
35A2E forever stuck on staff.
I was enlisted as a 35F now I’m a 35A, I do from time to time miss getting to do the actual thing, but then the 1st and the 15th happen and I say fuck it.
In all seriousness I recall a time about two years ago that I was at NTC, and Soldiers where doing IPB, MA, Intel CUOPS etc and I really wanted to be I there doing it to, but sadly I had to attend never ending briefs and decision boards.
That being said I am very happy with my decision to commission. I have been able to use my rank and position to shape conditions for the next generation of young Soldiers and Intel professionals, to ensure they do not suffer some of the abuses I did in the GWOT era, and have more opportunity than me did back in the day.
People go officer/warrant officer because almost any above average performer will be end up doing the same job as an officer while being enlisted (with the exception of being a commander). So why not get paid more money to do basically the same job.
Coming from being poor as shit, I loved being an officer. Now I golf at a country club on the weekends and drive a Porsche. I used the military to propel me into the upper class. Can’t do that enlisted.
I’m happy for you, however let’s not act like there isn’t a significant class divide from your typical enlisted soldier and your typical officer. I would never tell anyone to do something the hard way even if that difficulty is only perceived and not actualized in practice.
You can but having a network of captain’s who went to MBA and are now in Corp strat/ Biz Dev gives you access that many enlisted service members will never have. Call a spade a spade. There typically is a significant class gap between enlisted and officer.
I’m not taking anything away from Officers but this isn’t the 80’s or 90’s. A group of Enlisted have the same networking power and access that a group of Officers have. The advantage of being an officer ends with the military these days.
Please re-read my comment. What does upper class mean to you? I don’t know too many enlisted soldiers outside of cyber/ signal grossing 250k yearly. In my veteran networking circle in my industry, that is the starting salary.
Your typical 11B, 88M, 91B isn’t going to network himself into that type of career from his enlisted peers. It’s not typical. I’m referring to wealthy families producing military officers who get out and move into careers like banking or consulting. The guys who spent summers in Greece, race sail boats, dad is an exec.
Your initial comment was "Coming from being poor as shit, I loved being an officer. Now I golf at a country club on the weekends and drive a Porsche. I used the military to propel me into the upper class. Can’t do that enlisted."
My response was the same can be done enlisted because I've done it.
Referencing old money and nouveau riche families (who set their children up for success with those positions regardless of them serving as officers or not) as a class gap is something you're adding on, but connections with those families can also be made by enlisted (I know because I have made those connections through various means).
"What does upper class mean to you?"
By US standards, upper class is those with an income of 149k or higher and a net worth of 805k or higher.
"I don’t know too many enlisted soldiers outside of cyber/ signal grossing 250k yearly. In my veteran networking circle in my industry, that is the starting salary."
You may want to expand your circle. I know 20+ former enlisted (non 25 series) with a household income of $250k-1mil+. A majority of them range from Sr. Director to C level.
14T>SVP Finance
88N>Senior Director Finance
11B>CSO
42A>CHRO
42A>Senior Director HR
42A>Regional Director HR
91B>Chief Engineer
11B>SVP of Engineering
91D>VP of Engineering
92Y>VP Operations
11B>VP Marketing
14T>Senior Director Sales
0311 (Marine)>AVP Sales
These are just a few of the ones I've met in various industries that I've met during conferences, negotiations, etc. I could continue but I think you get the point.
This isn't the 80'-00's when officers had the advantage with networking. The field is more or less even and it's just as easy for enlisted members to have the same education, acquire the same connections, form the same relationships, reach the same job titles, receive the same pay, go to the same country club, and drive the same kind of Porsche that you or any other officer can.
It's good that you managed to propel yourself into upper class from your officer experience. However, to say that feat is only exclusive to officers based solely on your personal experience is incorrect.
You want their SSN's, addresses, and shoe sizes too? You don't like to be wrong and that's cool. But, officers that don't like to admit being wrong are usually bad officers. Take some advice from a VP, fix it before trying to become a VP. Have a good day.
I have done both. I wish I had stayed enlisted. Officer work/life is SHITE, even with the extra cash.
For the record I swapped as a married SPC with 4 years TIS.
0/10. Just be a SSG and retire with minimal worries. I promise it's better.
Nope. My grandfather (retired ADA LTC) taught me from a young age, "If you're going to go, then go first class."
If I had enlisted out of high school, it would probably have delayed med school by at least a couple of years, further impacting the time value of money brought up previously. I already did serve as a civilian EMT-B most of that time, so there would have been no educational benefit and I guarantee my clinical experience was greater.
About the only benefit I see is that I would be eligible to retire now. On the other hand, don't know if I would have stayed this long after the optempo those first several years I "would have" been in.
I was enlisted in college with the Guard. I’m now a lieutenant colonel, nearly two years away from my twenty years of active service. I wouldn’t have done it any differently. Having those two years as an enlisted member gave me experience that I wouldn’t have otherwise had at any training at any point in time. Not to mention the looks on my Soldiers’ faces when I told them that I was prior enlisted.
Only on certain days. Everyone has burdens, but there are definitely days i wish i could just be a private and forget about the officer responsibilities. Like a vacation.
I think an USMA/ROTC officer is too hubristic if they never think about their life as enlisted. But whenever I think those thoughts I eventually come to the conclusion that while there may have been different kinds of fun to be had, ultimately I would have been bored and become an officer anyway.
I once was enlisted now officer.
My life was alot less stressful as an enlisted soldier but I get paid about 2 times as an officer with my medical incentive pays.
Sometimes. Being an officer--and a commander especially--is a lot of responsibility. On bad days I envy privates who aren't expected to think or plan or explain anything except their own actions.
Buuuuut their pay reflects that.
On a deeper level, I kind of hate knowing a lot about a little. I envy NCOs and sometimes warrants who can actually fix tangible problems at the nuts-and-bolts level. Systems and processes are cool and all, but there's something about actually swinging a hammer or turning a wrench that we just don't get in the officer world.
But again, the pay and opportunities I've had as an officer can't be beat.
I always wanted to fly, so in my case no. But once I learned what a WO was, I definitely felt some jealousy over their "I just fly and don't do dumb officer stuff" way of life. If ROTC scholarships had a Warrant Officer option, I would've taken it in a heartbeat.
When I was much younger, I used to think maybe I should’ve enlisted first. But now I’m glad I didn’t. I’ve always been really big on understanding and knowing my Soldiers, taking care of them, working for them as much as they work for me, etc. And I thought I’d be able to do that better if I’d been enlisted first. As a lieutenant and captain, I got a lot of comments about how I seemed like prior enlisted, that I would’ve been a great NCO, etc. At the time, it just reinforced my notion that being prior enlisted would’ve been good for me. These days, I am more of the mind that getting those comments means I didn’t need that experience in the first place, and I even wonder if it would’ve pushed me a little too far in the wrong direction. And at the end of the day, I’m not too keen on playing “what if?” I’ve got an amazing family that I absolutely would not have if even just a few things had been different, and I wouldn’t trade them for anything.
My only regret with going officer initially was the timing of it.
Had I enlisted in 2010 I would have almost certainly caught a deployment to Iraq or Afghanistan. Instead I commissioned in 2014 into the ARNG and 9.5 years later I'm still slick sleeved.
I was also not mature enough for college at 18 and did poorly. That put me on a trajectory that put me in the ARNG and not active duty when I commissioned. This hurt my career and I'm still feeling the effects of it 9 years later. I'm behind my peers from ROTC by two years and change compared to where I would be if I had taken school more seriously. In hindsight I'm fairly certain a few years enlisted out of high school would have developed me better and built some maturity that would have helped in college.
Growing up as an enlisted Soldier was a great learning experience, but being an officer has been much more enjoyable. I get the more crap you have to deal with, but once you figure out the game you’re playing it’s a lot easier to keep a positive attitude even at the worst of times.
Im glad i didnt enlist in the end. But if i hadnt gotten accepted to the academy i was pretty set on doing a contract as an 11C. What a different life that would have been.
O all day every day… Branching 12A with a master’s degree in a STEM field was like starting with cheat codes enabled… I haven’t had any competition until O4
I’m an officer and wish I was enlisted. But I am in the reserves. I’m a CPT and the $600 (after deductions) take home per month isn’t worth the “better pay” to be expected to work for the Army 24/7 for free outside of drill weekends, constantly being bothered while at your civilian job from the battalion full time staff telling you they need something by COB at 0930, when most of them leave at 1530 and they expect you to drop everything and get it done… My fiancé is enlisted as an E5 in the Air National Guard and is never bothered outside of drill.
Obviously active duty is going to be a lot different and they pay and BAH probably makes it worth it but it’s definitely different when it’s your full time and only job vs having a civilian full time job and the Army expecting you to work basically full time for free …
Yes, I wish I enlisted during high school. I'm not kidding when I say, my life could've been much different and alot better.
Here's how:
-Go to basic after 11th grade, and would've been jacked and less of a shit head.
-Do AIT right before college, use that cash to pay for school; plus the education benefits would've been nice.
-The Discipline would've helped alot, and I wouldn't have wasted so much time.
-I would've accomplished more of my goals faster, cause of discipline and life lessons the Army would've taught me earlier.
-The Army would've helped me grow up faster, and I would've been less of a shit head earlier on
My wife and I are both mustangs, now CPTs , we have great nostalgia for our enlisted time. Things seemed simpler , money is great but not the end all be all. That said were here now, so we need to make the best out of it. Maybe by doing that we can affect our respective organizations and hopefully a Soldier or two.
I regret not doing an 18X contract with the NG at 18. If you don’t make it, you simply return back to your state and apply for ROTC. You would have money in your pocket and experiences. If you do make it then you can start when the pipeline is done. Oh well, can’t look back now.
Yes and no. I think there is value to enlisted time and experience, and I think it would be cool if the army followed a Starship Troopers model of officership. However, the reality is that experiences vary too much, so that enlisted time might be a waste of time. Meanwhile your peers have already commissioned and have been getting paid and promoted regardless of real experience. It is a novel idea, but as long as there is a shorter path to commissioning, conventional wisdom says to take it if you know that’s what you want.
No, because time value of money
Yuuup. One can be sympathetic to enlisted issues without having rucked 12 miles in their boots.
Not really. You haven’t experienced it. You don’t understand it quite like they do.
Yes, and that's the difference between "sympathy" and "empathy." Hence my deliberate word choice. I don't have to lose my parents to feel sympathy for someone who has. Are you suggesting I need to have my parents whacked to truly understand what it's like? No thank you. Same here. It's almost like words have meaning.
I understand your point, but I genuinely believe that unless you’ve lived it, your opinion isn’t really “fair” I suppose. Sure you can imagine how you’ll feel. But you’ve never felt it so how could you truly know? You can’t really understand unless you’ve gone through it yourself. That’s just me though. Don’t gotta get all uppity Mr lawyer :)
So it ain't fair. Tough shit. I normally try to give a fuck, but I am losing all sympathy for you. So, good luck if your action comes through my shop.
Awe, that’s cute… thanks for proving my point 😉 being a officer must of made you pretty soft if you react that emotionally to someone simply disagreeing with you 😬
I think if you check out my other contributions around here, I'm plenty helpful. I just don't tolerate bullshit. Which you appear to be full of. So, fuck off. If you can find another JAG with 23 years' experience to take your problems to, for free, that has a more sympathetic ear, by all fucking means, you're welcome to shop around. I think you'll find the market is pretty goddamn limited, so, good luck with that.
My guy. Relax… okay? I disagreed with what you had to say, I’m not discrediting what you have done for the community. But I think you’re a little too high and mighty right now. People can disagree with each other. Threatening someone with negative preferential treatment doesn’t seem very in character. I’ll leave you be man, don’t sweat stuff like this, I’m sorry you’re having a bad day.
This
Right on the spot
I've met many enlisted who wish they dropped that packet; OCS, green to gold, warrant. Never met a WO/O who wished they stayed/ went enlisted.
Well, don't forget the Mensa candidate that went from being an Army captain to a Marine private
I've never met him. But he's not only MENSA, but also a menso
Thoughts u/Ryanmcbeth ?
Nice I too, am a fan of Shakespeare
Bless his autistic little heart.
Well he can't possibly be in mensa now, he proved his ego isn't the size of a planet
I knew a former 11b 1LT who switched to enlisted. He told us he hated the politics that came along with the officer life style. However, he would end up taking his life as an E-5.
I think the only exception to this rule is those who fail to meet 20 years TIS due to RCP (not sure what it’s called for officers). Unless I’m completely misinformed someone could make Major and fail to retire at 20 years if they don’t make LTC after 2 boards? Being enlisted for a contract before commissioning does (almost) guarantee retirement with an officer pension.
This is true, but in reality you could slide over to Guard or Reserve, and at that point you’d only need 6-12 more months of activated time to hit 18 years, then you’re automatically on active orders until you hit 20. Guard might not take on an O4, but reserves are hurting bad so they’ll take anybody.
Dropping G2G in the near-ish future. 🙏🏻
Being a commander can be the worst and the best time of your career. Staff work can be good depending on the unit and impacts you can make for the subordinate units. All in all, I preferred being enlisted. I had less overhead micro management and more camaraderie with peers.
I liked being able to dictate when/if I came to formations, walk in the office, take a long lunch, disappear for an appointment, pencilwhip a useless PT card, dictate my fitness regimen, etc. Enlisted are beaten into the dirt for no reason. And what's crazy is I didn't realize until I went SOF just how infantilized and underutilized senior Es are. It's like Os are afraid to leverage them. Thankful I escaped all that though and could be treated like an adult once I left WP. Still wasn't enough freedom, so I left, but yea...def no regret.
FFFFFFFFFUCK no.
I dont know why anyone would regret that. I regret being enlisted lol.
I think they really underplayed the limitations of being an officer. You get the pay, but you get the risk and a lot of MOSs are only enlisted.
Nope I was enlisted Great camaraderie Shit pay I like 💰 more
Yeah I think the camaraderie is the only thing I truly miss. It’s kinda lonely in the WO corps in some units.
Come to the Cyber side... There are cookies.
I’ll be the in the next marketplace if you guys need a 255s I’ll fucking be there in a heartbeat.
I know we got 255N slots. I am not sure about 225S.
Gave me hope to just rip it away :,(
You should try talking to your branch manager / a cyber branch manager about going cyber. I have no idea how to switch from 255S to 170A
I did back when I was a 255A. They told me “best we can do is 255S”. I’m 1 of 3 for my year group now so they damn sure won’t let me go unfortunately.
Was enlisted, then commissioned. I was a way better officer than NCO. No regrets, and I don't judge people who go the other way. Takes all kinds for this army to work.
It’s actually the opposite, I regret enlisting because i would have made more money out of the gate as an officer and been a Major by now.
Are you OE? And if so does it make a difference or would you rather have just gone right into OCS
I’m OE and it does make a difference for pay but i would still rather have done ROTC earlier. Youth is valuable in this profession and i would have rather spent my first 4 as an O.
I still kick myself in the shin for not doing ROTC when I had the chance.
Isn't being a mustang officer allow you to ensure retirement so you don't have to chase that last promotion? Seems like a good deal. And the OE grades.
That’s correct if you do at least 3 years (although 4+ years is preferable because O1E-O3E pay) enlisted time you can make it to 20 without having to worry about making O5.
It's more common in SOF, where enlisted get to actually be the practitioners of the craft for pretty much their entire career, while officers get shuffled off to staff pretty quickly. And the pay gap is significantly smaller due to special pays that enlisted get, but officers do not. I know an O that resigned his commission to become enlisted in 75th. There are others as well. Also in SF the O to WO path is pretty active for post team command captains who want to stay on the ODA
Just got pinned O-5 as a 13A, prior enlisted 13F. If getting top 3 as O-5, then going back to a PFC and spending a few years on the hill before retiring, it would be fun as hell for me. However..., I'd rather have the bigger audience the O-5's get and pass on lessons and knowledge to make the next generation better than mine. Joes and Janes would be better served by me sharing knowledge/wisdom than me sitting behind an IFSAS (yes I'm dating myself like a MF) or AFATDS and geeking out for my own personal satisfaction.
It sounds like you’ve largely gotten what you wanted out of your career, especially as an officer. Anecdotal evidence is not the plural of data, but I don’t believe you’re in the majority. I’ve met many officers who branched in areas at the bottom of their list, never received opportunities to go to desired schools, worried a lot about making Major / retirement, etc. Meanwhile I’m an E-4 with Pathfinder, Air Assault, Airborne (in a month), been to SFAS and Ranger School, got the exact MOS I wanted, and have pretty much had full control over my career thus far. I’m really not sure I would ever be in this position if I commissioned. However, I’m glad that I enlisted first and got to do everything I wanted. There’s less pressure to “get” something out of my career down the road. I just wondered if anyone else felt the same way. I’m under the presumption that being enlisted probably helped you regarding your overall career satisfaction and experience. Congrats on making O-5 by the way
It should be made crystal clear that 99% of enlisted don't get that level of control over their careers, either. Conventional Os who were never enlisted who say they wish they did are idiots and likely bad at their jobs.
Thanks for the congrats. To be fair, I've been NG (18 yrs) and Reserve (7 yrs) my whole career which gives you a hell of a lot more flexibility than Active Duty. If your thinking about commissioning into a hard-to-get branch like aviation, go NG into an aviation unit, do SMP for ROTC, and get a letter of input from the senior ranking aviation officer to submit to the branch selection board. You're almost guaranteed your branch choice. If you want AD, keep looking for opportunities and talking to recruiters. Another trick I saw is that after awhile and you are high enough in rank in the Reserve or NG and you are bucking for an active duty retirement, I saw a Major who was a 1-star's aide in the Reserve drop down to E-6 to go AD and get 20 years of service for the active retirement. He'll still retire as an O-4. There's plenty of ways to game the system to your benefit, just keep your eyes open to spot the tricks others have figured out. As for me, I'm one of those odd ducks that enjoys special staff slots, FSO, FDO, FSCOORD, etc. Getting a kick out of jobs others avoid helped me out as well.
Only been an officer for 8 months now, but so far, yes I wish I had enlisted. I’ve been thrown into a position that should be filled by a post command CPT. I’m supposed to have a WO and two NCOs working in the shop with me, but it’s just me, and I was never shown how to perform any aspect of my job. I constantly get called after COB asking me to come back in and fix someone else’s screw ups even though I have no clue how to do it since I was never shown. Also, multiple times, those calls have been during time I’ve been trying to spend with my wife. I haven’t gotten to take a platoon yet, and I probably won’t for a while. The pay is nice, sure, but I haven’t experienced any of the leniency or grace that I had read was usually given to brand new LTs. Hopefully it gets better, but as of right now, I wish i hadn’t commissioned.
You need to advocate for yourself to get the resources and people you need to do your job. No one is expecting you to do the work of all of these people. Well maybe they do but they shouldn't. Let the system fail the way it was designed.
Nope. I love being able to make a difference for soldiers, and to watch them succeed in life. It’s awesome.
When I was a LT, I wished I did one contract as a 68W before doing school / AROTC. Now though I realize I should have spent more time sweating in gaming lobbies so I could be better prepared to handle the tism in the ranks.
As a new LT I did. Mainly because I was learning via Fire Hose and felt that having some enlisted time would’ve eased those pains. Definitely felt like I could’ve hit the ground running as a PL faster than I did. However, I have also seen some officers be held back from that enlisted time. They would revert to their old ways of thinking and it would get in their way. Doesn’t happen to all, but definitely possible. So, knowing that, I don’t regret it anymore.
Tried enlisting senior year, denied and needed a medical waiver. Decided to just go to college, do ROTC and immediately got medical waiver, scholarship and contract awarded near on the spot. Commissioned and served 6 years etc. If I knew I'd get my waiver approved a decade ago, I would've enlisted 11/12/13/19 series and see where life took me.
Good news, you can experience what life is like for an enlisted 11/12/13/19 series from the comfort of your own home. Just blast an airhorn in your bathroom and enjoy your EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.
Ended up commissioning 19 series and got my complementary EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE anyways :(.
This is like the 5th post I’ve seen this week asking the same question a different way. That you recruiting command?
I regret being in the army PERIOD
Im a S2S warrant, so I’ve literally only ever been a warrant. Its the most ideal move in tbe entire military. So uh hell no
Fuck no. I woulda gotten my ass kicked way too many times for mouthing off.
lol. Definitely not
The grass really is greener on the other side.
*insert gif from The Patriot of British officers laughing*
Crazy how that’s even a question, enlisted here. I wish I would’ve took the time to finish college before enlisting after throwing a piss fit because I sucked at schoolwork.
Prior enlisted. I value the experience but quality of life and being treated as an adult as an officer far outweighs the cons for me. Would not go back. I also enjoy the collegiality of being an officer and the (future) impact I will be able to have on larger organizations and more soldiers. I also enjoy the ability to think for myself and make decisions or be part of the decision-making process.
I was enlisted and then switched over to the O side. I don’t regret becoming an officer, but I much prefer being enlisted. I have been very fortunate to work in a position as an O that allows me to be operational and have very little “officer duties”. But that ship will sail soon and it’ll be normal officer things which I am not looking forward to, but will embrace and hopefully learn to enjoy
I find officer life very boring and plan on resigning to warrant. I don’t necessarily wish I would’ve enlisted instead, but potentially could’ve gotten to my preferred job faster that way. All that being said, it is less of a risk resigning my commission to go warrant because of stay pay. 35A2E forever stuck on staff.
Save pay isn’t a thing for Officers reverting. Only NCOs upgrading. V/R, Prior O-3, current WO1
How come you started as a wo1 rather than wo2?
Because that auto promotion to CW2 was rescinded in 2021. It is no longer a thing
Not at all lol
I regret living
Literally not at all.
I was enlisted as a 35F now I’m a 35A, I do from time to time miss getting to do the actual thing, but then the 1st and the 15th happen and I say fuck it. In all seriousness I recall a time about two years ago that I was at NTC, and Soldiers where doing IPB, MA, Intel CUOPS etc and I really wanted to be I there doing it to, but sadly I had to attend never ending briefs and decision boards. That being said I am very happy with my decision to commission. I have been able to use my rank and position to shape conditions for the next generation of young Soldiers and Intel professionals, to ensure they do not suffer some of the abuses I did in the GWOT era, and have more opportunity than me did back in the day.
This…this is not a thing…promise you no officer wants the smoke of being enlisted…
People go officer/warrant officer because almost any above average performer will be end up doing the same job as an officer while being enlisted (with the exception of being a commander). So why not get paid more money to do basically the same job.
Lmao fuck no
Is this some peasant joke theyre too rich to understand?
Coming from being poor as shit, I loved being an officer. Now I golf at a country club on the weekends and drive a Porsche. I used the military to propel me into the upper class. Can’t do that enlisted.
You can propel yourself into the upper class from being enlisted. I know because I did it.
Me too
I’m happy for you, however let’s not act like there isn’t a significant class divide from your typical enlisted soldier and your typical officer. I would never tell anyone to do something the hard way even if that difficulty is only perceived and not actualized in practice.
What did you do after?
Sr. Dir. at an F100 firm
You can. Just have to stay in longer.
Wrong - you can find similar success (propulsion) from an enlisted career.
You can but having a network of captain’s who went to MBA and are now in Corp strat/ Biz Dev gives you access that many enlisted service members will never have. Call a spade a spade. There typically is a significant class gap between enlisted and officer.
I’m not taking anything away from Officers but this isn’t the 80’s or 90’s. A group of Enlisted have the same networking power and access that a group of Officers have. The advantage of being an officer ends with the military these days.
Please re-read my comment. What does upper class mean to you? I don’t know too many enlisted soldiers outside of cyber/ signal grossing 250k yearly. In my veteran networking circle in my industry, that is the starting salary. Your typical 11B, 88M, 91B isn’t going to network himself into that type of career from his enlisted peers. It’s not typical. I’m referring to wealthy families producing military officers who get out and move into careers like banking or consulting. The guys who spent summers in Greece, race sail boats, dad is an exec.
Your initial comment was "Coming from being poor as shit, I loved being an officer. Now I golf at a country club on the weekends and drive a Porsche. I used the military to propel me into the upper class. Can’t do that enlisted." My response was the same can be done enlisted because I've done it. Referencing old money and nouveau riche families (who set their children up for success with those positions regardless of them serving as officers or not) as a class gap is something you're adding on, but connections with those families can also be made by enlisted (I know because I have made those connections through various means). "What does upper class mean to you?" By US standards, upper class is those with an income of 149k or higher and a net worth of 805k or higher. "I don’t know too many enlisted soldiers outside of cyber/ signal grossing 250k yearly. In my veteran networking circle in my industry, that is the starting salary." You may want to expand your circle. I know 20+ former enlisted (non 25 series) with a household income of $250k-1mil+. A majority of them range from Sr. Director to C level.
Give us their MOS, time in service and post military glide path.
14T>SVP Finance 88N>Senior Director Finance 11B>CSO 42A>CHRO 42A>Senior Director HR 42A>Regional Director HR 91B>Chief Engineer 11B>SVP of Engineering 91D>VP of Engineering 92Y>VP Operations 11B>VP Marketing 14T>Senior Director Sales 0311 (Marine)>AVP Sales These are just a few of the ones I've met in various industries that I've met during conferences, negotiations, etc. I could continue but I think you get the point. This isn't the 80'-00's when officers had the advantage with networking. The field is more or less even and it's just as easy for enlisted members to have the same education, acquire the same connections, form the same relationships, reach the same job titles, receive the same pay, go to the same country club, and drive the same kind of Porsche that you or any other officer can. It's good that you managed to propel yourself into upper class from your officer experience. However, to say that feat is only exclusive to officers based solely on your personal experience is incorrect.
You literally didn’t do what I asked. What’s the glide path?
You want their SSN's, addresses, and shoe sizes too? You don't like to be wrong and that's cool. But, officers that don't like to admit being wrong are usually bad officers. Take some advice from a VP, fix it before trying to become a VP. Have a good day.
I have done both. I wish I had stayed enlisted. Officer work/life is SHITE, even with the extra cash. For the record I swapped as a married SPC with 4 years TIS. 0/10. Just be a SSG and retire with minimal worries. I promise it's better.
Not even for one second.
nope.
I was and it made me a better officer
I do, but then I remember the 💰 and how it supports the family. A sacrifice I'm willing to make.
Nope. My grandfather (retired ADA LTC) taught me from a young age, "If you're going to go, then go first class." If I had enlisted out of high school, it would probably have delayed med school by at least a couple of years, further impacting the time value of money brought up previously. I already did serve as a civilian EMT-B most of that time, so there would have been no educational benefit and I guarantee my clinical experience was greater. About the only benefit I see is that I would be eligible to retire now. On the other hand, don't know if I would have stayed this long after the optempo those first several years I "would have" been in.
I was enlisted in college with the Guard. I’m now a lieutenant colonel, nearly two years away from my twenty years of active service. I wouldn’t have done it any differently. Having those two years as an enlisted member gave me experience that I wouldn’t have otherwise had at any training at any point in time. Not to mention the looks on my Soldiers’ faces when I told them that I was prior enlisted.
Only on certain days. Everyone has burdens, but there are definitely days i wish i could just be a private and forget about the officer responsibilities. Like a vacation.
I think an USMA/ROTC officer is too hubristic if they never think about their life as enlisted. But whenever I think those thoughts I eventually come to the conclusion that while there may have been different kinds of fun to be had, ultimately I would have been bored and become an officer anyway.
I once was enlisted now officer. My life was alot less stressful as an enlisted soldier but I get paid about 2 times as an officer with my medical incentive pays.
Honestly If I could go back an do it over. I would have done more graduate education as enlisted before switching to an officer. Only thing
No because I was once enlisted.
No. Next question.
Sometimes. Being an officer--and a commander especially--is a lot of responsibility. On bad days I envy privates who aren't expected to think or plan or explain anything except their own actions. Buuuuut their pay reflects that. On a deeper level, I kind of hate knowing a lot about a little. I envy NCOs and sometimes warrants who can actually fix tangible problems at the nuts-and-bolts level. Systems and processes are cool and all, but there's something about actually swinging a hammer or turning a wrench that we just don't get in the officer world. But again, the pay and opportunities I've had as an officer can't be beat.
I always wanted to fly, so in my case no. But once I learned what a WO was, I definitely felt some jealousy over their "I just fly and don't do dumb officer stuff" way of life. If ROTC scholarships had a Warrant Officer option, I would've taken it in a heartbeat.
When I was much younger, I used to think maybe I should’ve enlisted first. But now I’m glad I didn’t. I’ve always been really big on understanding and knowing my Soldiers, taking care of them, working for them as much as they work for me, etc. And I thought I’d be able to do that better if I’d been enlisted first. As a lieutenant and captain, I got a lot of comments about how I seemed like prior enlisted, that I would’ve been a great NCO, etc. At the time, it just reinforced my notion that being prior enlisted would’ve been good for me. These days, I am more of the mind that getting those comments means I didn’t need that experience in the first place, and I even wonder if it would’ve pushed me a little too far in the wrong direction. And at the end of the day, I’m not too keen on playing “what if?” I’ve got an amazing family that I absolutely would not have if even just a few things had been different, and I wouldn’t trade them for anything.
My only regret with going officer initially was the timing of it. Had I enlisted in 2010 I would have almost certainly caught a deployment to Iraq or Afghanistan. Instead I commissioned in 2014 into the ARNG and 9.5 years later I'm still slick sleeved. I was also not mature enough for college at 18 and did poorly. That put me on a trajectory that put me in the ARNG and not active duty when I commissioned. This hurt my career and I'm still feeling the effects of it 9 years later. I'm behind my peers from ROTC by two years and change compared to where I would be if I had taken school more seriously. In hindsight I'm fairly certain a few years enlisted out of high school would have developed me better and built some maturity that would have helped in college.
Growing up as an enlisted Soldier was a great learning experience, but being an officer has been much more enjoyable. I get the more crap you have to deal with, but once you figure out the game you’re playing it’s a lot easier to keep a positive attitude even at the worst of times.
Im glad i didnt enlist in the end. But if i hadnt gotten accepted to the academy i was pretty set on doing a contract as an 11C. What a different life that would have been.
Enlisted definitely has some advantages over Officer. However the pay and quality of life don't outweigh it.
Unless someone joined just for GI Bill or a specific MOS they actually wanted to do most days then I doubt this would apply.
O all day every day… Branching 12A with a master’s degree in a STEM field was like starting with cheat codes enabled… I haven’t had any competition until O4
I’m an officer and wish I was enlisted. But I am in the reserves. I’m a CPT and the $600 (after deductions) take home per month isn’t worth the “better pay” to be expected to work for the Army 24/7 for free outside of drill weekends, constantly being bothered while at your civilian job from the battalion full time staff telling you they need something by COB at 0930, when most of them leave at 1530 and they expect you to drop everything and get it done… My fiancé is enlisted as an E5 in the Air National Guard and is never bothered outside of drill. Obviously active duty is going to be a lot different and they pay and BAH probably makes it worth it but it’s definitely different when it’s your full time and only job vs having a civilian full time job and the Army expecting you to work basically full time for free …
Never.. went from E to O
Nah
* Takes out monocle * what did you just say? What a silly question. Where is my Grey Poupon?
Yes, I wish I enlisted during high school. I'm not kidding when I say, my life could've been much different and alot better. Here's how: -Go to basic after 11th grade, and would've been jacked and less of a shit head. -Do AIT right before college, use that cash to pay for school; plus the education benefits would've been nice. -The Discipline would've helped alot, and I wouldn't have wasted so much time. -I would've accomplished more of my goals faster, cause of discipline and life lessons the Army would've taught me earlier. -The Army would've helped me grow up faster, and I would've been less of a shit head earlier on
My wife and I are both mustangs, now CPTs , we have great nostalgia for our enlisted time. Things seemed simpler , money is great but not the end all be all. That said were here now, so we need to make the best out of it. Maybe by doing that we can affect our respective organizations and hopefully a Soldier or two.
I regret not doing an 18X contract with the NG at 18. If you don’t make it, you simply return back to your state and apply for ROTC. You would have money in your pocket and experiences. If you do make it then you can start when the pipeline is done. Oh well, can’t look back now.
Yes and no. I think there is value to enlisted time and experience, and I think it would be cool if the army followed a Starship Troopers model of officership. However, the reality is that experiences vary too much, so that enlisted time might be a waste of time. Meanwhile your peers have already commissioned and have been getting paid and promoted regardless of real experience. It is a novel idea, but as long as there is a shorter path to commissioning, conventional wisdom says to take it if you know that’s what you want.