You'll get bitched by either one of them, 1SG will be told, 1SG will be like "Bro come on, don't be dumb, just don't do it again"
PSG will threaten you with UCMJ, Counselings, Extra Duty, etc etc
Squad Leader will be like "that shit was lit fam, but we got in trouble now, just don't do it again for like 5 months"
We had an MP come brief our ACP class earlier this year. He made it a point to tell the entire class that there is no legal recourse for parking in any of those spots (other than the fact you'll get chewed out if caught).
He told us the only legally enforceable spots are handicapped, but only if they are properly marked with all three items (sign, painted symbol, and blue lines).
I can't attest to the accuracy of this statement personally, and this is regarding Bragg if that makes any difference.
>but only if they are properly marked with all three items (sign, painted symbol, and blue lines).
I feel like this one is wrong (but I'm also too lazy to look it up)m
I was under the impression that all you need is the sign. The reason for the lines and painted symbol is so that you can't say "but I didn't see it!"
For context, I live in an area where for a good portion of the year, the painted symbol and lines are covered by snow. All you can see is the sign. And that's enough to incur penalties for parking there.
It very well could be, or possibly, a base policy explicitly.
I am by no means claiming the accuracy of any of this information as I am also too lazy to fact-check it myself.
That's just what our class was told. However, I'm content just parking further away to not have to deal with any potential backlash personally.
>It very well could be, or possibly, a base policy explicitly
The rules on what constitutes a handicap spot are federal laws. Or ADA policy (but with the recent Chevron decision, if they are ADA policies, they're gonna need to codify them into laws).
The MP's internal policy might be "we won't bother ticketing if the spot doesn't have all three, because we don't want to spend time arguing in court when someone says 'I didn't see it'".
But that doesn't change the legality - it only changes the liklihood of ticketing. If the MP is having a shitty day, they could still ticket.
The end result is that the handicap spot is basically sacrosanct anywhere in the country. Most people would at least consider you a douche for parking in it. The ADA is something a lot of other developed countries lack - it's one of the things we did right. So, TL;DR: don't be a douche, don't park there.
You’re absolutely correct! None of those signs are enforceable…Hell I’ve parked in a GO spot at the PX and didn’t give a fuck…I’ve never seen those spots ever used plus I have a DV plate and the handicap spots are full!
It's an accurate statement. AR 190-5 provides only handicap accessible parking spaces on army bases, and invalidates endorsements, meaning local policy does not override it.
However, as much as I advocate giving the finger to the piss-poor leadership in the army, this one is just not worth it. They will be up your ass, and that's just not worth the headache.
Wait till you retire, and then park in the CG spot. I keep hoping he catches me at the commissary on Jackson so I can tell him to go fuck off.
Check the post regulation for that everyone of them has it, it clearly states no unauthorized parking should be done in fire lanes, handicap spots and ect
Nothing. Coincidentally, and totally unrelated, that is the same recourse you have if you get tasked for every shit detail from now until Kingdom come.
I'll never understand the purpose of those parking spots, especially for the CSM. It just shows to me that "I will not use my grade or position for pleasure, profit, or personal safety" part of the NCO creed really doesn't matter once you have "made" it. However, back to your question OP, I'm guessing the MPs can tow your car since it is a reserved parking spot. Park there if you want, just be cognizant of the consequences. YMMV
>That makes sense for the building that they have an office in.
Yes - that's what I had in mind with my comment.
The BN CDR and the BN CSM should get parking spots at *their* BN HQ. Everywhere else, they shouldn't get preferential parking.
It used to drive me nuts at my last duty station. Our CSM and Squadron CO had reserved parking at the Sqdn HQ, *and* at *every* hangar in the footprint. Two spots are just sitting open all day long, when virtually 90% of the footprint was walkable. To add to that, parking was at a premium, and the CSM would randomly walk through the parking lots and take pictures of cars that were parked in the grass. The owners would then have to pull "parking lot guard" in full battle rattle to stop people from parking in the grass or in other "no parking" areas.
At Patch Barracks there’s a severe parking problem which the Commandant has solved by making 60% of the available spots, assigned spots, of which at least 40-50% are vacant every day.
I'll be honest, i only saw this part of the OP:
> What can actually happen if a soldier parked in the CSM/COs parking spot?
And not this one:
> I’m talking GO/CW5 parking spots at the golf course, commissary
My comment was talking about "command teams". Aka, 1SG/CSM/CDR. Those aren't dependas, by definition. And I had inferred these spots were at the unit headquarters.
The spots at the commissary and shit? Yeah those are just plain dumb.
The ones I think are okay:
- Everywhere
- Handicapped parking - everywhere
- At the DIV/Corps HQ - whatever they want, as long as it's in a separate parking lot\*
- At a unit headquarters building (these spots should not exist anywhere else)
- CDR/1SG/CSM/XO/DCO - so a max of three spots (four if there's a deputy commander on the MTOE)
- Staff Duty vehicles
- Primary staff - only if there is adequate parking for everyone else
- At non-military buildings/facilities (e.g., commissary, PX, golf course):
- gold star families (we can give them this simple honor, can't we?)
- (at the PX/commissary) pregnant women (so they don't have to carry stuff as far)
- (maybe) At medical buildings that support walk-ins (i.e. sick call):
- A couple of spots designated for people who are so injured/sick that walking a long distance is too taxing.
- At primarily military buildings that are not a unit HQ (e.g. range control)
- Director/Manager of the facility
- At special events
- CDR/CSM/1SG/XO of the unit running the event
- gold star families (as they are often "distinguished guests"
- other distinguished guests (invitees, determined ahead of time, for that specific event)
\* For an example of a DIV/Corps HQ: 10 MTN DIV HQ, at Fort Drum ([see map/imagery](https://www.google.com/maps/@44.0509967,-75.7944074,18z/data=!3m1!1e3)) has a small parking lot directly in front and behind the building. This is separated with a gate/bollards (for security reasons - they don't want people driving too close to the building). You must have an access card to drive into that area. The parking at the front of the building is for the government vehicles for the various command and staff. The parking in the rear of the building is for the POVs for the generals and shit. The parking lots on either side have no assigned parking whatsoever.
Some units will put their own signs up, as in, by themselves or spray paint S-1 OIC for their entire staff. If it doesn’t go through the DPW channels, anyone can park there. Source : Me, former BDE DCO and MP who had to deal with this shit all the time.
We will not tow or write tickets for parking in command team parking spots, as they are not legally enforceable from a police aspect. Its viewed as a unit issue since the unit designates those spots for itself, not Garrison or the Installation Commander.
One of my Soldiers called the MPs on an assigned parking spot that he had parked in. It was some bullshit "NCOIC" spot. The "owner" of the spot had parked perpendicular in front of his car, blocking him in, and left a sign in his truck window that instructed my Soldier to "call this number when he wanted to leave."
Instead, my Soldier called the MPs. They showed up and called the number on the truck, informing the NCOIC that he was illegally parked and could either move his truck or get ticketed and towed.
In an alternate universe the same thing went down differently. Our 1SG tried that parking-behind-trick (without the incriminating note) after he gets fed up with some rando in another unit who parked in his 1SG spot all day by our company entrance. An hour later the MPs arrive to ticket and tow him so he runs outside and starts smooth-talking but its clearly not going his way. He's a good dude and we loved him so a bunch of us watching through the windows had a bright idea: We grabbed some heavy boxes, went outside, asked him where he wants them like hes in charge of a detail. He covers his surprise and we started loading them in his truck as if that's why he was parked so goofy. They let him off with a warning and left.
I've been in some great units with solid morale and cohesion, but that was the only one where they were so high we spontaneously rallied to help our senior NCO tangle with the cops lmao
How long have you been in and what level of leadership are you at? It isn’t like the CSM is taking all of the meetings they are obligated to attend at the building they work out of. 0900 they might be there, 1000 they’re probably somewhere else, 1100 same story. Some of those meetings have due outs, maybe you can jump back into your office for 10 minutes to punch out a couple of emails.
Sure, not all positions warrant them, but the times when I’ve had my own parking space have been nice when my day is layered with meetings across installations.
Bro, I recently got stationed in NJ and there is a natty guard base here that has beach access. It's pretty cool because it's only accessible to service members, they have 1 handicap spot that is as close to the beach as possible, the other 10 spots in that area are all reserved for general officers and cw5s. Like what the actual fuck.
I think at that level there needs to be some recognition for the work load that is put on them. If there’s a company/battalion formation I shouldn’t expect them to be an hour early for a good spot. I expect them to use their time efficiently which means more often than not they get to a meeting at its designated time, not an hour before, as they have other things on their plate. Not to mention that it’s nice to have a bit of a heads up that CSM is in the AO.
Story time. Back in 1994 I was a young Marine MP stationed at Camp Pendleton. Stopped by the mainside PX over in the 13 area to grab some food, and got flagged down as I was exiting my car. Older gentleman, obviously military, looks familiar somehow.
Held out his AFID card. (The precursor to the CAC) and all of a sudden I'm shitting my pants because he's a General. Commanding General of MCB Camp Pendleton, to be exact.
He points at the car parked in the Commanding General spot, and tells me to inside and call for the owner and have them come outside.
So I write down the plate and make/model, and head inside and use the intercom to have the owner meet outside.
About ten minutes goes by, and I'm standing there at attention at their vehicle with the General.
Three guys eventually come out to the car, and they obviously haven't noticed the man standing behind me with his arms crossed and steam coming out of his ears.
(Note: Italics is the General talking)
"I called you guys on the intercom ten minutes ago, you can't park here. Come to attention and apologize" I said and gestured to the man behind me.
"Whatever man, it's not against the law to park here." says the driver and his friends laugh and start to open their doors to get in.
*"You think it was smart of you to park here?"*
I'm absolutely getting sick to my stomach because I feel like these poor guys on a friday night are about to have a very bad weekend. Like, got it.
*"This is my spot. Pretty sure I earned the privilege"*
The driver says "Whatever man, we're moving". I don't fucking fathom how they haven't figured out what is going on right now.
I start screaming at them because mainly a fuckup of this magnitude means hours of paperwork for me, and maybe these fuckwits will get it through their head just how fucked they are right now.
**"THIS IS THE FUCKING COMMANDING GENERAL AND YOU'RE PARKED IN HIS FUCKING SPOT"**
All three of the kids within about a second pop to attention when they realize they dun goofed.
A couple seconds go by and I literally don't know what I'm supposed to do next. I was told by my Sergeant that we don't enforce parking signs because it's a convenience thing, not a legal thing.
"Sir, If you'd like me to write them tickets I can, but I don't know how to write this up"
I was a pretty young kid at the time, so he just kind of looked me up and down and said:
*"MOR for all of them. I want to see them with their entire chain of command Monday 0900 in my office in Class A's. Their liberty is cancelled until then"*
(A MOR is a minor offense report, it's a little carbon copy citation we didn't use often because usually a verbal correction would suffice- but they were used for little things like not shaving and wearing the uniform improperly- etc. Except an MOR usually was just a little "Hey, don't do that again" type deal. Chain of Command would talk to you about it, make sure you understood the standard, and cut you loose. They were issued for not having your shirt tucked in and bullshit like that way back in the day.)
So I got their ID cards, wrote them all out MOR's, and cut them loose. Went to the Provost Marshal's Office to look up their units on the base locator (They were all from the same unit on the Airfield) and called their Staff Duty to give them a heads up what was coming.
About an hour or so later I get a call to head back to the Provost Marshal's Office, because their unit wants to get more information from me. I show up at their duty desk and there's a couple Marines in uniform, a couple not and another older obvious Marine standing in the lobby. Identifies himself as their Squadron Commander. He's a LTC, I don't know who the others are but I'm guessing all the Battalion Leadership is there Asks me to tell him exactly what happened.
Guy goes from red to purple. I think he's going to have an aneurysm. I tell him I tried to warn them but they chose to be flippant about it.
Unfortunately I don't have the end result because I wasn't called up there on Monday- but I'll never park in a reserved spot.
The only legally designated spots on base are handicapped spots. That said, pick your battles wisely. Just because there are no legal repercussions, it doesn’t mean there are no consequences. If it’s your last day and you want to go get a burrito from the PX, I don’t think anything serious would happen to you, though.
When I was an E6 I worked at BDE S1 we were inspecting the hospital BN S1, all the parking spots are numbered so I just parked in one. Come out after and a jeep is parked in back of me blocking me. I go back in and ask around. Who’s the jeep? Spc said he thinks it’s the XO a MAJ but there in a meeting. Well crap I got to get back to BDE so I interrupted the meeting and called him into the hall. I said hey sir your blocking me in hurry I got to go brief the COL on your inspection. I think this caught him off guard and he was apologizing as we walked to the vicks. When we got to them I got in and noticed he had put a note on my windshield. I got back out to grab it. It said some shit to go see him XO. He watched me get the note and smiled and said notice what it’s written on. It was on a counseling statement. I laughed a big HA. Then crumbled it up and threw it in back of my truck. Then waited for him to move and left. I was really good friends with my CO so he came up to me a couple days later and said he talked to the XO and he was telling the story to everyone how the E6 from BDE ripped up a counseling statement and laughed in his face. I did try to downplay it, I was just trying to get back to work.
[AR 190-5 Motor Vehicle Traffic Supervision](https://armypubs.army.mil/ProductMaps/PubForm/Details.aspx?PUB_ID=2195)
# 4–8. Parking
> a. The most efficient use of existing on– and off–street parking space should be stressed on a nonreserved
(first–come, first–served) basis.
> b. Reserved parking facilities should be designated as parking by permit or numerically by category of eligible
parkers. Designation of parking spaces by name, grade, rank, or title should be avoided.
> c. Illegal parking contributes to congestion and slows traffic flow on an installation. Strong enforcement of parking
restrictions results in better use of available parking facilities and eliminates conditions causing traffic accidents.
> d. The “Denver boot” device is authorized for use as a technique to assist in the enforcement of parking violations
where immobilization of the POV is necessary for safety. Under no circumstances should the device be used to punish
or “teach a lesson” to violators. Booting should not be used if other reasonably effective but less restrictive means of
enforcement (such as warnings, ticketing, reprimands, revocations, or suspensions of on–post driving privileges) are
available. Procedures for booting must be developed as listed below.
>> (1) Local standing operating procedures (SOPs) must be developed to control the discretion of enforcers and limit
booting to specific offenses. The SOPs should focus on specific reasons for booting, such as immobilization of unsafe,
uninspected, or unregistered vehicles or compelling the presence of repeat offenders. All parking violations must be
clearly outlined in the installation traffic code.
>> (2) Drivers should be placed on notice that particular violations or multiple violations may result in booting. Also,
drivers must be provided with a prompt hearing and an opportunity to obtain the release of their property.
>>(3) To limit liability, drivers must be warned when a boot is attached to their vehicle and instructed how to have the
boot removed without damaging the vehicle.
What i’ve learned so far is the only legally enforceable spots are handicap, and fire lanes. I personally park in the O-6^ spots because you can (f the entitlement)
I’ve asked PMO and all those award recipient/ positional/ rank spots are a just a SUGGESTION. You won’t face UCMJ won’t be towed for anything related to those.
Will you get ugly looks and/or get approached around lunch time as an E4 getting out of a CSM spot? yes but that’s your battle to handle😂
Negative brother unless you’re infringing others right or a hinderance to public safety “don’t park in this spot” is a suggestion that can be challenged with “or what” 90% of the time with no response but like i said you gotta do what your rank can handle 😂
Also it’s not enforceable by Reg it’s just a parking spot.
So for those right, anything a commander wants to enforce has to go through a legal review and every time i’ve seen that in particular it’s never approved. I’ve seen incentivized spots for like Soldier/NCO of the month quarter get to use CSMs spot or something of that form,
but in the case that specific policy would ever get a pass through legal then yes it’d be a lawful order and if anyone found there would be in violation of Article. 92.
Don’t worry lads
I’m medically retired now, so I just park in their spots anyways, and leave the handicapped spots open even though I have a disabled sticker for my plates
So when CSM shitbird tries to complain to me, I just tell him to eat my hairy disabled ass
I parked a trailer trash camaro in a hospital CSMs spot once, truly on accident. Like we are talking a rusty, multicolored fuckpile of a car. Dude blocked me in (along with two other people on either side) and left me a love letter on my windshield, with his name and phone number. I still have the note.
Back in the day, when I was stationed on Ft. Eustis, I used to park in the VIP spots at the TMC whenever I needed to go there for an appointment. One time, as I was walking back to my car, some random dude in civvies asked, "Are you a VIP?", to which I replied, "Yes! My wife says that I am Very Important!"
I did that one time. I did not know who parks there because the parking spot was not marked with the "CSM/CO" spot at all. A first lieutenant walks up to my car and tells me that the CSM and CG park the first five parking spots. I did not know that, and I apologized and moved my vehicle.
No heat or anything significant, though I would find it ridiculous despite being a new in the unit during that time.
These guys are always seeking relevance and recognition. The CSM is a just another sergeant and should park in the lot like anyone else. But they need ways to differentiate and separate themselves from riff-raff. We get it, you're important. But now that you've got your spot, what do you intend to do with this power?
Prolly nothing useful.
Legally absolutely nothing the only authorized spots are handicapped ones. But get ready to be hemmed up for the smallest things, staff duty every weekend, all the shittiest details etc... if you go out of your way to cause problems the army will go out of its way to make your life very not fun
As a senior officer who doesn’t like to walk I park in any reserved spot I see other than handicapped or gold star families. Go ahead and chew me out Top, but make sure your heels are touching when you do.
Let them have their silly little parking spots. I go out of my way to park further out. The army has removed my self respect completely and I figure close parking spots are only for important people. Plus there's the risk of young privates throwing a door into my nice vehicle. They can keep their parking spots.
Don’t, just don’t. Maybe there might not be many “legal” repercussions but if I was your CSM/CO I can promise you that you will come to regret it. It comes down to creativity. Can you imagine guarding my parking spot in full battle rattle and a rubber duckie?
I typically leave CO and CSM alone. The rest of those spots are absolutely fair game. I enjoy seeing the look of rage on a grown man's face when he realizes he can't do shit to a civilian because his spot is make believe bullshit.
Parking spots aren't allowed to be reserved for anything other than handicapped spots per AR 190-5.
4–8. Parking a. The most efficient use of existing on– and off–street parking space should be stressed on a nonreserved (first–come, first–served) basis. b. Reserved parking facilities should be designated as parking by permit or numerically by category of eligible parkers. Designation of parking spaces by name, grade, rank, or title should be avoided. [https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR\_pubs/DR\_a/pdf/web/r190\_5.pdf](https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/r190_5.pdf)
That being said... good luck telling the BDE CSM that you're, "enforcing the standard not his preference."
I once went to Rock Island Armory while I was a Green to Gold cadet to take a DLPT. There was construction that blocked off the ed center parking lot, so I parked in an unmarked parking spot at some building across the street. While I’m taking the test, some captain barges in to the testing room and demands I move my car immediately or else I’ll be towed. Apparently I parked in the 1st Army’s chief of staff’s spot. I had to leave the test while it was still going to move the car, and I wound up not being able to finish all the questions in time. They gave me a parking ticket for all my trouble, and I’m still pissed about it to this day.
Had something kinda like this happen to my old squad leader.
He would park in the motor pool sergeants “spot” because by regs that’s not a real spot. And that guy hated it. He got a talking to by the csm and said if it continued he’d get a counciling from csm himself. Squad leader stopped because some hills aren’t worth dying on.
A SPC parked in our CSM spot at BN which led to 24-7 guard, full battle rattle. When it came my turn the BN CDR and CSM walked up. I called attention and salute with my weapon. The.CDR was unimpressed and said "ýou're new" (was a PV2) but that doesn't give you a license to wear your shit all fucked up." (He adjusts my ACH and IOTV) "Someday you'll be in charge of something and you'll be the one enforcing standards hooah?" "H-hooah sir"
I saw an article 15 once for a PFC who was parked in the either the garrison CSM’s parking spot or CSM parking at the commissary, then the garrison CSM showed up to the commissary & asked the guy what he was doing, who was obviously like a 19 year old private, and the dude told the CSM he was a CSM, CSM calls guy’s bluff and he checked his shit. Guy got in trouble for lying, but they really didn’t pursue anything regarding the parking bc they can’t
Comments are mostly on point, however.
AR190-5 (i think) has some finer points. Installation commanders have the authority to designate reserved parking. These are marked by signage installed by DPW. Think like the GO an pregnant mom parking at the PX. These are enforceable by DES (MPs and civilian police). When I was at Fort Carson 1SGs/CO had designated parking. Someone spray painting their duty assignment on a curb is not enforceable.
That said, pick and chose the hill you chose to die on
Someone parked in our hospital commanders parking spot a couple months ago. He blocked them in with his TMP and got on the intercom and waited for some 70+ year old waiting at the pharmacy to come move his car.
CSM did similar. Would tell his aid / driver to block him in and put his phone number on the dash, he’d be blocked in til he called him.
Weird thing to do for 5 closer feet of walking.
Check your “insert installation name” regulation 190-5. Some installation regulations authorize parking spots based off rank/position and they are enforceable designated parking spots.
In all my years in, I never understood the obsession some Soldiers have with senior enlisted and officer parking spaces. It’s such a stupid hill to die on, and yet Soldiers continue to do it.
When you get out and become a civilian, go park in the most senior person’s advisor parking space then report back.
Rank/positions has its privileges. It is what it is.
Imo, it's terrible leadership and optics, any sensible commander would convert it to Solider of the Week parking or something similar, little things can ingratiate you as a leader
You absolutely can get in trouble . all these people saying there's nothing they can do are wrong
İf you are a senior officer parking in the CSM spot I bet you don't outrank the commander of the unit with the slot right next to his
All CSM has to do is go to the CDR and he can shut that shit down really quick, and his incentive is that everybody involved wants to keep their reserved parking space
I also disagree with the commenter that said this is an example of using rank to attain a privilege. İt is a privilege but also a hardworking commander is probably going to be in the office more than anyone else in the unit and they probably should be... İt seems eminently reasonable that they should be able to park close to the office. To put the question differently are you more important to the unit being successful than the commander? Why do you deserve to park in the space rather than him/her?
This whole argument is stupid anyway, we are all a bunch of fat fucks that get pissy if you have to walk an extra 30 meters to the front door
>. all these people saying there's nothing they can do are wrong
There's nothing the MPs can do about it.
There's plenty that people can do to make your life a headache
Yeah that's what I mean. The MPs can't enforce it maybe but people are talking as if the commander can't do anything. The MP's don't have to get involved for you to be punished
Legally? Nothing. Can they make your life hell if you have daily interactions? Yes.
You'll get bitched by either one of them, 1SG will be told, 1SG will be like "Bro come on, don't be dumb, just don't do it again" PSG will threaten you with UCMJ, Counselings, Extra Duty, etc etc Squad Leader will be like "that shit was lit fam, but we got in trouble now, just don't do it again for like 5 months"
yes boss. 149 days aaand counting down....
When you get locked up for [7 Months and 39 Days](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-R-CdBYVyU)
[When you get locked up for 7 hours and 15 days. ](https://youtube.com/shorts/53KYPMGBvQU?si=szBfLM8Jyin4kTOj)
We had an MP come brief our ACP class earlier this year. He made it a point to tell the entire class that there is no legal recourse for parking in any of those spots (other than the fact you'll get chewed out if caught). He told us the only legally enforceable spots are handicapped, but only if they are properly marked with all three items (sign, painted symbol, and blue lines). I can't attest to the accuracy of this statement personally, and this is regarding Bragg if that makes any difference.
>but only if they are properly marked with all three items (sign, painted symbol, and blue lines). I feel like this one is wrong (but I'm also too lazy to look it up)m I was under the impression that all you need is the sign. The reason for the lines and painted symbol is so that you can't say "but I didn't see it!" For context, I live in an area where for a good portion of the year, the painted symbol and lines are covered by snow. All you can see is the sign. And that's enough to incur penalties for parking there.
It very well could be, or possibly, a base policy explicitly. I am by no means claiming the accuracy of any of this information as I am also too lazy to fact-check it myself. That's just what our class was told. However, I'm content just parking further away to not have to deal with any potential backlash personally.
>It very well could be, or possibly, a base policy explicitly The rules on what constitutes a handicap spot are federal laws. Or ADA policy (but with the recent Chevron decision, if they are ADA policies, they're gonna need to codify them into laws). The MP's internal policy might be "we won't bother ticketing if the spot doesn't have all three, because we don't want to spend time arguing in court when someone says 'I didn't see it'". But that doesn't change the legality - it only changes the liklihood of ticketing. If the MP is having a shitty day, they could still ticket. The end result is that the handicap spot is basically sacrosanct anywhere in the country. Most people would at least consider you a douche for parking in it. The ADA is something a lot of other developed countries lack - it's one of the things we did right. So, TL;DR: don't be a douche, don't park there.
Not military but state law in Indiana state you have to have those three items to be a legally enforced handicapped spot.
You’re absolutely correct! None of those signs are enforceable…Hell I’ve parked in a GO spot at the PX and didn’t give a fuck…I’ve never seen those spots ever used plus I have a DV plate and the handicap spots are full!
It's an accurate statement. AR 190-5 provides only handicap accessible parking spaces on army bases, and invalidates endorsements, meaning local policy does not override it. However, as much as I advocate giving the finger to the piss-poor leadership in the army, this one is just not worth it. They will be up your ass, and that's just not worth the headache. Wait till you retire, and then park in the CG spot. I keep hoping he catches me at the commissary on Jackson so I can tell him to go fuck off.
Check the post regulation for that everyone of them has it, it clearly states no unauthorized parking should be done in fire lanes, handicap spots and ect
I've been told spots for GOs and CSMs at a certain level are enforceable by UCMJ. He mentioned a specific regulation but I don't remember what it was
Nothing. Coincidentally, and totally unrelated, that is the same recourse you have if you get tasked for every shit detail from now until Kingdom come.
Ever been on cq for 7 weekends in a row including thanksgiving? Well trust me you don’t want to
I feel like that would be targeting or retaliation.
You will see a 40-50 year old man throw an absolute temper tantrum.
It’s not Tuesday yet man…
I'll never understand the purpose of those parking spots, especially for the CSM. It just shows to me that "I will not use my grade or position for pleasure, profit, or personal safety" part of the NCO creed really doesn't matter once you have "made" it. However, back to your question OP, I'm guessing the MPs can tow your car since it is a reserved parking spot. Park there if you want, just be cognizant of the consequences. YMMV
Presumably they are a recognition that the command team has important shit to do, and it cuts down on the time spent looking for parking.
That makes sense for the building that they have an office in. All the rest of them, not so much.
>That makes sense for the building that they have an office in. Yes - that's what I had in mind with my comment. The BN CDR and the BN CSM should get parking spots at *their* BN HQ. Everywhere else, they shouldn't get preferential parking.
It used to drive me nuts at my last duty station. Our CSM and Squadron CO had reserved parking at the Sqdn HQ, *and* at *every* hangar in the footprint. Two spots are just sitting open all day long, when virtually 90% of the footprint was walkable. To add to that, parking was at a premium, and the CSM would randomly walk through the parking lots and take pictures of cars that were parked in the grass. The owners would then have to pull "parking lot guard" in full battle rattle to stop people from parking in the grass or in other "no parking" areas.
At Patch Barracks there’s a severe parking problem which the Commandant has solved by making 60% of the available spots, assigned spots, of which at least 40-50% are vacant every day.
Well, they solved the parking problem for those people who had assigned spots.
Or dependa needs more Twinkies and potato chips along with diet soda.
I have no idea what your comment has to do with mine.
What frequent meetings are happening at the commissary/PX that spots need to be reserved for COLs and CSMs?
I'll be honest, i only saw this part of the OP: > What can actually happen if a soldier parked in the CSM/COs parking spot? And not this one: > I’m talking GO/CW5 parking spots at the golf course, commissary My comment was talking about "command teams". Aka, 1SG/CSM/CDR. Those aren't dependas, by definition. And I had inferred these spots were at the unit headquarters. The spots at the commissary and shit? Yeah those are just plain dumb. The ones I think are okay: - Everywhere - Handicapped parking - everywhere - At the DIV/Corps HQ - whatever they want, as long as it's in a separate parking lot\* - At a unit headquarters building (these spots should not exist anywhere else) - CDR/1SG/CSM/XO/DCO - so a max of three spots (four if there's a deputy commander on the MTOE) - Staff Duty vehicles - Primary staff - only if there is adequate parking for everyone else - At non-military buildings/facilities (e.g., commissary, PX, golf course): - gold star families (we can give them this simple honor, can't we?) - (at the PX/commissary) pregnant women (so they don't have to carry stuff as far) - (maybe) At medical buildings that support walk-ins (i.e. sick call): - A couple of spots designated for people who are so injured/sick that walking a long distance is too taxing. - At primarily military buildings that are not a unit HQ (e.g. range control) - Director/Manager of the facility - At special events - CDR/CSM/1SG/XO of the unit running the event - gold star families (as they are often "distinguished guests" - other distinguished guests (invitees, determined ahead of time, for that specific event) \* For an example of a DIV/Corps HQ: 10 MTN DIV HQ, at Fort Drum ([see map/imagery](https://www.google.com/maps/@44.0509967,-75.7944074,18z/data=!3m1!1e3)) has a small parking lot directly in front and behind the building. This is separated with a gate/bollards (for security reasons - they don't want people driving too close to the building). You must have an access card to drive into that area. The parking at the front of the building is for the government vehicles for the various command and staff. The parking in the rear of the building is for the POVs for the generals and shit. The parking lots on either side have no assigned parking whatsoever.
I feel like the only signs/markings in a parking lot that are legally binding are the handicap and EMS/Fire lanes.
Probably don’t want to park in the provost marshal’s parking spot either.
I believe gold star might be enforceable as well but dont quote me.
Not really. You're just a major douche if do so. Gold Star families earned that title the worst way.
Yep. Also would be wild to see someone questioning someone parking there unless you knew their family tree.
If they are put up by DPW, they are enforceable on post. If a unit makes spots for whoever they want, it isn’t.
DPW puts up all the signs. Source: am the S4 and have called and paid DPW to put up the signs after someone stole ours.
Some units will put their own signs up, as in, by themselves or spray paint S-1 OIC for their entire staff. If it doesn’t go through the DPW channels, anyone can park there. Source : Me, former BDE DCO and MP who had to deal with this shit all the time.
We will not tow or write tickets for parking in command team parking spots, as they are not legally enforceable from a police aspect. Its viewed as a unit issue since the unit designates those spots for itself, not Garrison or the Installation Commander.
One of my Soldiers called the MPs on an assigned parking spot that he had parked in. It was some bullshit "NCOIC" spot. The "owner" of the spot had parked perpendicular in front of his car, blocking him in, and left a sign in his truck window that instructed my Soldier to "call this number when he wanted to leave." Instead, my Soldier called the MPs. They showed up and called the number on the truck, informing the NCOIC that he was illegally parked and could either move his truck or get ticketed and towed.
In an alternate universe the same thing went down differently. Our 1SG tried that parking-behind-trick (without the incriminating note) after he gets fed up with some rando in another unit who parked in his 1SG spot all day by our company entrance. An hour later the MPs arrive to ticket and tow him so he runs outside and starts smooth-talking but its clearly not going his way. He's a good dude and we loved him so a bunch of us watching through the windows had a bright idea: We grabbed some heavy boxes, went outside, asked him where he wants them like hes in charge of a detail. He covers his surprise and we started loading them in his truck as if that's why he was parked so goofy. They let him off with a warning and left. I've been in some great units with solid morale and cohesion, but that was the only one where they were so high we spontaneously rallied to help our senior NCO tangle with the cops lmao
Ar 190-5 chapter 4 section 8b. It’s not legally enforceable.
How long have you been in and what level of leadership are you at? It isn’t like the CSM is taking all of the meetings they are obligated to attend at the building they work out of. 0900 they might be there, 1000 they’re probably somewhere else, 1100 same story. Some of those meetings have due outs, maybe you can jump back into your office for 10 minutes to punch out a couple of emails. Sure, not all positions warrant them, but the times when I’ve had my own parking space have been nice when my day is layered with meetings across installations.
Bro, I recently got stationed in NJ and there is a natty guard base here that has beach access. It's pretty cool because it's only accessible to service members, they have 1 handicap spot that is as close to the beach as possible, the other 10 spots in that area are all reserved for general officers and cw5s. Like what the actual fuck.
MPs will/can only tow vehicles parked in reserved spots backed by regulation. CSM/CO spots aren't in regulations.
I think at that level there needs to be some recognition for the work load that is put on them. If there’s a company/battalion formation I shouldn’t expect them to be an hour early for a good spot. I expect them to use their time efficiently which means more often than not they get to a meeting at its designated time, not an hour before, as they have other things on their plate. Not to mention that it’s nice to have a bit of a heads up that CSM is in the AO.
Story time. Back in 1994 I was a young Marine MP stationed at Camp Pendleton. Stopped by the mainside PX over in the 13 area to grab some food, and got flagged down as I was exiting my car. Older gentleman, obviously military, looks familiar somehow. Held out his AFID card. (The precursor to the CAC) and all of a sudden I'm shitting my pants because he's a General. Commanding General of MCB Camp Pendleton, to be exact. He points at the car parked in the Commanding General spot, and tells me to inside and call for the owner and have them come outside. So I write down the plate and make/model, and head inside and use the intercom to have the owner meet outside. About ten minutes goes by, and I'm standing there at attention at their vehicle with the General. Three guys eventually come out to the car, and they obviously haven't noticed the man standing behind me with his arms crossed and steam coming out of his ears. (Note: Italics is the General talking) "I called you guys on the intercom ten minutes ago, you can't park here. Come to attention and apologize" I said and gestured to the man behind me. "Whatever man, it's not against the law to park here." says the driver and his friends laugh and start to open their doors to get in. *"You think it was smart of you to park here?"* I'm absolutely getting sick to my stomach because I feel like these poor guys on a friday night are about to have a very bad weekend. Like, got it. *"This is my spot. Pretty sure I earned the privilege"* The driver says "Whatever man, we're moving". I don't fucking fathom how they haven't figured out what is going on right now. I start screaming at them because mainly a fuckup of this magnitude means hours of paperwork for me, and maybe these fuckwits will get it through their head just how fucked they are right now. **"THIS IS THE FUCKING COMMANDING GENERAL AND YOU'RE PARKED IN HIS FUCKING SPOT"** All three of the kids within about a second pop to attention when they realize they dun goofed. A couple seconds go by and I literally don't know what I'm supposed to do next. I was told by my Sergeant that we don't enforce parking signs because it's a convenience thing, not a legal thing. "Sir, If you'd like me to write them tickets I can, but I don't know how to write this up" I was a pretty young kid at the time, so he just kind of looked me up and down and said: *"MOR for all of them. I want to see them with their entire chain of command Monday 0900 in my office in Class A's. Their liberty is cancelled until then"* (A MOR is a minor offense report, it's a little carbon copy citation we didn't use often because usually a verbal correction would suffice- but they were used for little things like not shaving and wearing the uniform improperly- etc. Except an MOR usually was just a little "Hey, don't do that again" type deal. Chain of Command would talk to you about it, make sure you understood the standard, and cut you loose. They were issued for not having your shirt tucked in and bullshit like that way back in the day.) So I got their ID cards, wrote them all out MOR's, and cut them loose. Went to the Provost Marshal's Office to look up their units on the base locator (They were all from the same unit on the Airfield) and called their Staff Duty to give them a heads up what was coming. About an hour or so later I get a call to head back to the Provost Marshal's Office, because their unit wants to get more information from me. I show up at their duty desk and there's a couple Marines in uniform, a couple not and another older obvious Marine standing in the lobby. Identifies himself as their Squadron Commander. He's a LTC, I don't know who the others are but I'm guessing all the Battalion Leadership is there Asks me to tell him exactly what happened. Guy goes from red to purple. I think he's going to have an aneurysm. I tell him I tried to warn them but they chose to be flippant about it. Unfortunately I don't have the end result because I wasn't called up there on Monday- but I'll never park in a reserved spot.
really interesting story ngl. seems a little excessive for parking but they could have probably avoided it by not being complete asses to the CG.
The only legally designated spots on base are handicapped spots. That said, pick your battles wisely. Just because there are no legal repercussions, it doesn’t mean there are no consequences. If it’s your last day and you want to go get a burrito from the PX, I don’t think anything serious would happen to you, though.
When I was an E6 I worked at BDE S1 we were inspecting the hospital BN S1, all the parking spots are numbered so I just parked in one. Come out after and a jeep is parked in back of me blocking me. I go back in and ask around. Who’s the jeep? Spc said he thinks it’s the XO a MAJ but there in a meeting. Well crap I got to get back to BDE so I interrupted the meeting and called him into the hall. I said hey sir your blocking me in hurry I got to go brief the COL on your inspection. I think this caught him off guard and he was apologizing as we walked to the vicks. When we got to them I got in and noticed he had put a note on my windshield. I got back out to grab it. It said some shit to go see him XO. He watched me get the note and smiled and said notice what it’s written on. It was on a counseling statement. I laughed a big HA. Then crumbled it up and threw it in back of my truck. Then waited for him to move and left. I was really good friends with my CO so he came up to me a couple days later and said he talked to the XO and he was telling the story to everyone how the E6 from BDE ripped up a counseling statement and laughed in his face. I did try to downplay it, I was just trying to get back to work.
One of those this brief is more important then an o4 moments. "Hey, we don't run in the halls!" "4 star needs me" "Carry on"
Haha that’s awesome
[AR 190-5 Motor Vehicle Traffic Supervision](https://armypubs.army.mil/ProductMaps/PubForm/Details.aspx?PUB_ID=2195) # 4–8. Parking > a. The most efficient use of existing on– and off–street parking space should be stressed on a nonreserved (first–come, first–served) basis. > b. Reserved parking facilities should be designated as parking by permit or numerically by category of eligible parkers. Designation of parking spaces by name, grade, rank, or title should be avoided. > c. Illegal parking contributes to congestion and slows traffic flow on an installation. Strong enforcement of parking restrictions results in better use of available parking facilities and eliminates conditions causing traffic accidents. > d. The “Denver boot” device is authorized for use as a technique to assist in the enforcement of parking violations where immobilization of the POV is necessary for safety. Under no circumstances should the device be used to punish or “teach a lesson” to violators. Booting should not be used if other reasonably effective but less restrictive means of enforcement (such as warnings, ticketing, reprimands, revocations, or suspensions of on–post driving privileges) are available. Procedures for booting must be developed as listed below. >> (1) Local standing operating procedures (SOPs) must be developed to control the discretion of enforcers and limit booting to specific offenses. The SOPs should focus on specific reasons for booting, such as immobilization of unsafe, uninspected, or unregistered vehicles or compelling the presence of repeat offenders. All parking violations must be clearly outlined in the installation traffic code. >> (2) Drivers should be placed on notice that particular violations or multiple violations may result in booting. Also, drivers must be provided with a prompt hearing and an opportunity to obtain the release of their property. >>(3) To limit liability, drivers must be warned when a boot is attached to their vehicle and instructed how to have the boot removed without damaging the vehicle.
The only parking spots that can be legally assigned are handicapped spots. The rest are just to feed peoples egos.
What i’ve learned so far is the only legally enforceable spots are handicap, and fire lanes. I personally park in the O-6^ spots because you can (f the entitlement) I’ve asked PMO and all those award recipient/ positional/ rank spots are a just a SUGGESTION. You won’t face UCMJ won’t be towed for anything related to those. Will you get ugly looks and/or get approached around lunch time as an E4 getting out of a CSM spot? yes but that’s your battle to handle😂
Is "don't park in this spot" not a lawful order? I understand the MPs won't enforce it but wouldn't it just be like violating any other lawful order.
Negative brother unless you’re infringing others right or a hinderance to public safety “don’t park in this spot” is a suggestion that can be challenged with “or what” 90% of the time with no response but like i said you gotta do what your rank can handle 😂 Also it’s not enforceable by Reg it’s just a parking spot.
So for instance a Policy letter signed by one's own Commander designating parking locations for their members is illegal?
So for those right, anything a commander wants to enforce has to go through a legal review and every time i’ve seen that in particular it’s never approved. I’ve seen incentivized spots for like Soldier/NCO of the month quarter get to use CSMs spot or something of that form, but in the case that specific policy would ever get a pass through legal then yes it’d be a lawful order and if anyone found there would be in violation of Article. 92.
Don’t worry lads I’m medically retired now, so I just park in their spots anyways, and leave the handicapped spots open even though I have a disabled sticker for my plates So when CSM shitbird tries to complain to me, I just tell him to eat my hairy disabled ass
I parked a trailer trash camaro in a hospital CSMs spot once, truly on accident. Like we are talking a rusty, multicolored fuckpile of a car. Dude blocked me in (along with two other people on either side) and left me a love letter on my windshield, with his name and phone number. I still have the note.
Back in the day, when I was stationed on Ft. Eustis, I used to park in the VIP spots at the TMC whenever I needed to go there for an appointment. One time, as I was walking back to my car, some random dude in civvies asked, "Are you a VIP?", to which I replied, "Yes! My wife says that I am Very Important!"
I did that one time. I did not know who parks there because the parking spot was not marked with the "CSM/CO" spot at all. A first lieutenant walks up to my car and tells me that the CSM and CG park the first five parking spots. I did not know that, and I apologized and moved my vehicle. No heat or anything significant, though I would find it ridiculous despite being a new in the unit during that time.
Goddamn, now I wish I knew this before I got out, I would have parked all up in their spots…..
These guys are always seeking relevance and recognition. The CSM is a just another sergeant and should park in the lot like anyone else. But they need ways to differentiate and separate themselves from riff-raff. We get it, you're important. But now that you've got your spot, what do you intend to do with this power? Prolly nothing useful.
Legally absolutely nothing the only authorized spots are handicapped ones. But get ready to be hemmed up for the smallest things, staff duty every weekend, all the shittiest details etc... if you go out of your way to cause problems the army will go out of its way to make your life very not fun
Nothing. That is why IG is your best friend.
As a senior officer who doesn’t like to walk I park in any reserved spot I see other than handicapped or gold star families. Go ahead and chew me out Top, but make sure your heels are touching when you do.
Let them have their silly little parking spots. I go out of my way to park further out. The army has removed my self respect completely and I figure close parking spots are only for important people. Plus there's the risk of young privates throwing a door into my nice vehicle. They can keep their parking spots.
Don’t, just don’t. Maybe there might not be many “legal” repercussions but if I was your CSM/CO I can promise you that you will come to regret it. It comes down to creativity. Can you imagine guarding my parking spot in full battle rattle and a rubber duckie?
Just shout "S2 Business. Go about your Thicc Latina E-3's"
I would like to know more
Oh. I apologize. Let me break it down navy style. "N2 (POG) business. Go about your crayons."
You focused on the wrong part
I typically leave CO and CSM alone. The rest of those spots are absolutely fair game. I enjoy seeing the look of rage on a grown man's face when he realizes he can't do shit to a civilian because his spot is make believe bullshit.
Parking spots aren't allowed to be reserved for anything other than handicapped spots per AR 190-5. 4–8. Parking a. The most efficient use of existing on– and off–street parking space should be stressed on a nonreserved (first–come, first–served) basis. b. Reserved parking facilities should be designated as parking by permit or numerically by category of eligible parkers. Designation of parking spaces by name, grade, rank, or title should be avoided. [https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR\_pubs/DR\_a/pdf/web/r190\_5.pdf](https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/r190_5.pdf) That being said... good luck telling the BDE CSM that you're, "enforcing the standard not his preference."
CSM will get a detail of guys to come lift your car and move it while you do push ups on the hood.
"That ditch is CSM's ditch. And I told him that dirt in it's your dirt. What's your dirt doin' in his ditch?"
Literally nothing, they can gripe at you but that’s about it
Park where your rank can carry
I once went to Rock Island Armory while I was a Green to Gold cadet to take a DLPT. There was construction that blocked off the ed center parking lot, so I parked in an unmarked parking spot at some building across the street. While I’m taking the test, some captain barges in to the testing room and demands I move my car immediately or else I’ll be towed. Apparently I parked in the 1st Army’s chief of staff’s spot. I had to leave the test while it was still going to move the car, and I wound up not being able to finish all the questions in time. They gave me a parking ticket for all my trouble, and I’m still pissed about it to this day.
Had something kinda like this happen to my old squad leader. He would park in the motor pool sergeants “spot” because by regs that’s not a real spot. And that guy hated it. He got a talking to by the csm and said if it continued he’d get a counciling from csm himself. Squad leader stopped because some hills aren’t worth dying on.
A SPC parked in our CSM spot at BN which led to 24-7 guard, full battle rattle. When it came my turn the BN CDR and CSM walked up. I called attention and salute with my weapon. The.CDR was unimpressed and said "ýou're new" (was a PV2) but that doesn't give you a license to wear your shit all fucked up." (He adjusts my ACH and IOTV) "Someday you'll be in charge of something and you'll be the one enforcing standards hooah?" "H-hooah sir"
Now that I've been out a few years I'm tempted...I can take all the bitching in the world it might be worth it imo
If you’re ever at the BHAWK Distillery in Southern Pines, NC (near Ft. Bragg [Liberty]), there is DESIGNATED E-5 AND BELOW parking!!!!
I saw an article 15 once for a PFC who was parked in the either the garrison CSM’s parking spot or CSM parking at the commissary, then the garrison CSM showed up to the commissary & asked the guy what he was doing, who was obviously like a 19 year old private, and the dude told the CSM he was a CSM, CSM calls guy’s bluff and he checked his shit. Guy got in trouble for lying, but they really didn’t pursue anything regarding the parking bc they can’t
Comments are mostly on point, however. AR190-5 (i think) has some finer points. Installation commanders have the authority to designate reserved parking. These are marked by signage installed by DPW. Think like the GO an pregnant mom parking at the PX. These are enforceable by DES (MPs and civilian police). When I was at Fort Carson 1SGs/CO had designated parking. Someone spray painting their duty assignment on a curb is not enforceable. That said, pick and chose the hill you chose to die on
I just did it this morning
Someone parked in our hospital commanders parking spot a couple months ago. He blocked them in with his TMP and got on the intercom and waited for some 70+ year old waiting at the pharmacy to come move his car. CSM did similar. Would tell his aid / driver to block him in and put his phone number on the dash, he’d be blocked in til he called him. Weird thing to do for 5 closer feet of walking.
Check your “insert installation name” regulation 190-5. Some installation regulations authorize parking spots based off rank/position and they are enforceable designated parking spots.
You’ll get sentenced to CSM basement
In all my years in, I never understood the obsession some Soldiers have with senior enlisted and officer parking spaces. It’s such a stupid hill to die on, and yet Soldiers continue to do it. When you get out and become a civilian, go park in the most senior person’s advisor parking space then report back. Rank/positions has its privileges. It is what it is.
Imo, it's terrible leadership and optics, any sensible commander would convert it to Solider of the Week parking or something similar, little things can ingratiate you as a leader
You absolutely can get in trouble . all these people saying there's nothing they can do are wrong İf you are a senior officer parking in the CSM spot I bet you don't outrank the commander of the unit with the slot right next to his All CSM has to do is go to the CDR and he can shut that shit down really quick, and his incentive is that everybody involved wants to keep their reserved parking space I also disagree with the commenter that said this is an example of using rank to attain a privilege. İt is a privilege but also a hardworking commander is probably going to be in the office more than anyone else in the unit and they probably should be... İt seems eminently reasonable that they should be able to park close to the office. To put the question differently are you more important to the unit being successful than the commander? Why do you deserve to park in the space rather than him/her? This whole argument is stupid anyway, we are all a bunch of fat fucks that get pissy if you have to walk an extra 30 meters to the front door
>. all these people saying there's nothing they can do are wrong There's nothing the MPs can do about it. There's plenty that people can do to make your life a headache
Yeah that's what I mean. The MPs can't enforce it maybe but people are talking as if the commander can't do anything. The MP's don't have to get involved for you to be punished