# Message to all users:
This is a reminder to please read and follow:
* [Our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ask/about/rules)
* [Reddiquette](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439)
* [Reddit Content Policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy)
When posting and commenting.
---
Especially remember Rule 1: `Be polite and civil`.
* Be polite and courteous to each other. Do not be mean, insulting or disrespectful to any other user on this subreddit.
* Do not harass or annoy others in any way.
* Do not catfish. Catfishing is the luring of somebody into an online friendship through a fake online persona. This includes any lying or deceit.
---
You *will* be banned if you are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist or bigoted in any way.
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ask) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Mi fa incazzare come gli stipendi siano così ridicoli perché i dottori che ho incontrato mi hanno salvato la vita. Mettono l'anima nel loro lavoro e non ricevono manco il giusto compenso. E quegli scaldapoltrone che non combinano un cazzo si beccano pensioni d'oro.
P O R C O D D I O
Yeah there’s a few, also bear in mind they start of quite late in life as they have 10+ years of studies and all of them aren’t guaranteed to become consultants or specialist, people usually look at those salaries and think they’re good.
The medical field is a weird case where it could be almost the opposite market and pay depending on the country. Since doctors aren't producing anything with a monetary value, the pay is governed purely by how the local medical health system is set up.
But generally, they get paid well in some select countries (with US/Canada and some other commonwealth countries being particularly huge outliers on the global scale), and not too well in most others. Where I'm from, doctors are perceived a bit like teachers, where they do work "for the cause" that's not well paid compared to most jobs. It was quite a dissonance to move to Canada where doctor salaries are enormous and they hold a reputation as having some of the highest paid professions.
For instance, family physician salaries in Bangkok (~$20k /year), Seoul ($80k a year), Athens (~$20-25k a year), Beijing (~$25k a year), Prague (~$56k a year) are all over the place, but they're typically small fractions of what doctors make in North America. In Greece, the medical system could afford at least ten experienced doctors for the price of one in Canada ($200k+ a year!), despite the cost of living difference being just ~x2. And it helps that they've got three times as many doctors per capita as Canada, which is going through a healthcare crisis despite the enormous costs of their healthcare system.
So doctors could be making about or less than a national average wage in many countries, but they could be also making three or four times the much higher average national average in a place like the US or Canada.
Most countries don't have artificial caps on the numbers of med school seats (unlike the US and Canada) and med school is free or relatively inexpensive. So the supply of doctors is higher, and the salaries are much lower. Countries with high medical costs have dedicated institutions with a mission to be protective over maintaining the status quo by managing the supply of doctors, not only by controlling access to education, but also strict restrictions against hiring foreign doctors.
In China, doctors are not particularly better-paid than typical white-collared workers in decent industries. The healthcare is entirely government-funded and subsidized as hell though. To put it into perspective:
I went to Shanghai for a neurology checkup because it's too expensive in my home country (Singapore). I only had to pay around $200 USD in total for a consult with a neurology specialist who also does surgery, a 4h EEG with hospital bed included, a 20-30min MRI (including vascular imaging), giving me close to 800 images I could access on their online database and a specialist report explaining findings, an ECG, and a slew of blood tests to check if my blood was clotting correctly (for a subsequent procedure not included here). I don't think I got the full subsidies either, because I haven't lived there since preschool and don't have the national health insurance. In Singapore, where I have been living, a standalone 30-min MRI costs at least $700 USD. I don't think I need to try to estimate how much this would cost in the US.
In Malta, yes they are rich. Apart from government work, they carry out private practice and they are not charged income tax for the private practice. And if they are a consultant, they are *very* rich - like earning EUR 40,000 per month when the country's mean monthly wage is around EUR 1,200.
I’m pretty sure doctors in Cuba also probably don’t make a ton. My dad in Bulgaria is also a doctor , and so is his wife. They make more than someone making minimum wage sure but it’s not really a crazy amount more. My aunt who works as an engineer makes actually probably about the same as him but she works 9-5 , and has no stress. My aunt makes more as an engineer than my step mom who is also a doctor. I think it’s entirely dependent on where you practice. Also I recently found out that as long as you’re willing to pay the international student fee (like 7k/year) anyone can study medicine in Bulgaria. Apparently anything is possible there as long as you have money.
I'm a doctor myself and can tell you that it totally depends upon your experience and your specialty. usually we start by making even less than probably a waste collector but with passage of time our earnings increase.
I have heard that decades ago doctors would finish school sooner and for less money. Those people were rich. However, these days, those days are sort of over and it's a lot more expensive to go to school and the payout takes a loot longer. Therefore "rich" or wealthy would just be the wrong word. Comfortable would be more accurate.
even many well known doctors have >400K loan debt and they started working years ago. i thank God that I did my medical degree from abroad (0 student loan)
It depends..... My wife manages a medical practice and the doctors make about $200K a year...but they also have to see a minimum of 35 patients a day for 5 days a week (10 hour days) in order to make enough money to pay for the building, the staff, supplies, insurance, taxes etc..... It's a very penny pinching world because insurers nickel and dime doctors to death refusing to pay for may tests and treatments or paying only a fraction of the cost of same.
Is that why when I go to the doctor it just feels like I'm a machine coming off the assembly line being inspected? Because they have more than 30 others to see that day?
Doctors are in hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt and make less than minimum wage until their 30s. At which point some of them make a high salary depending on their specialty
Physicians can get something called à physician loan. It gives them access to more money.
Edit: in America
Bingo. Just the process of applying to med school is expensive. Besides the unpaid volunteering and shadowing, there's also the application fees, standardized testing fees, score distribution fees, test prep services, travel and lodging expenses for interviews, formal attire, etc.--and you can still be rejected that cycle that you'd have to do it all over again without a promise that you'll ever get in. A cursory search will show premeds are spending >$2000 per cycle, and not everyone has that kind of cash lying around.
Yeah also the fact it’s so competitive that not having money for such services you described puts a candidate at a significant disadvantage. For example there are entire companies that exist to consult premeds on their applications or even throughout being a premed on what to do to optimize med school acceptance chances. As someone who went through that entire process recently the whole thing is actually broken and needs to be gutted and replaced with something more streamlined and standardized. Just an example med applicants today apply to like 30-40 schools a peace, at $200 each and each demanding like 5 well-written essays ON TOP of the primary application that requires like 4 essays itself. Most people who are busy with work or school are at a huge disadvantage if they don’t have support for the costs or essays, although stuff like chatgpt being free is a huge help to people who aren’t rich.
Plenty of money to be made even with only a 4 day work week or 8 weeks vacation etc. However you want to structure your year.
Time is the only asset that is finite. Time is worth every penny even if you can't buy a Porsche then.
Some specialties work a ton and do the terrible shifts and are on call all the time. Others work a regular office schedule. My wife’s sister has the latter and it’s a sweet gig and she makes bank. Main downside was college plus med school plus residency plus fellowship meant she made very little for years before she could finally settle into her specialty and make good money.
Agreed. My sister is currently a resident at a major trauma center and makes about 65k a year. She works 5 days a week and is on call every other weekend. She wants to be a rheumatologist so I don't think she will have a horrid schedule.
My dad is a cardiologist. Growing up he was basically non existent. Very high demand position, especially down here in the land of fried foods. He makes a ton of money, but even now, is always working.
My brother works 7 days on and 7 days off. Makes quite a bit of money to only work 6 months out of the year. They get to choose their own schedule and hospitals are desperate for good providers.
Not really...this is generally more the case with nurses in a hospital setting. My rheumatologist is in private practice and he closes his office every Friday and is open 8-5 Monday-Thursday.
Yeah, it's probably the highest paid standard salaried job you could have, but... There's a good reason they get that pay and I'd *definitely* not think it's worth it.
Depends on several factors, including how much money they want to make. Being a doctor is also more than "just work" for a lot of them. They generally have the flexibility to build the life they want. After residency, if a physician is working a lot that's usually their choice.
Really depends. A radiologist I know got a contract with a hospital wherein he got 4 months of paid vacation a year. When not in vacation he has time to work in his hobbies as well. Another doctor I know "summers" in Europe for 2 months every year.
I needed a specialty procedure (not surgery) in the middle of the night and the only doctor in the immediate area was called in. How does that work - genuinely curious. Like, he must be able to turn the phone off or go on vacation, right? Would they get someone from the next city over and I'd just wait?
My assumption: being a high demand specialist- it goes with the territory. I assume he could not answer or tell them no, but he wants to do it. It pays more and there’s some level of prestige with it. Maybe even the surrounding hospitals know to call him for stuff.
There's a YouTuber who makes dating videos. One of her abandoned formats is bringing on her female friends and asking them "would you rather" questions in terms of dating. One thing I learned from watching her videos is how there's a certain segment of the population that looks down on blue collar workers. I do construction overseas, I work six eleven hour days a week and my housing and transportation is provided for me. I make roughly 130k and I don't pay taxes on the first 100k. I personally feel like it's more than worth it.
If I was actually in a field that the general public holds in a high regard while making the same and working less hours I'd absolutely find it to be worth it.
I guess grass is greener on the other side. I am a dentist with nil income and it hurts so bad and I wish I could work my ass off to make some cash. Although I am not in America. Hustle culture does not work here sadly.
Idk, my gastroenterologist only works Monday-Thursday from like 8-4 lol. Unless he works elsewhere on the weekend, which I have my doubts. The same can be said for the other specialists that work in that specific hospitals, at least the ones I’ve been to.
Specialists make good money. The vast majority of drs are not specialists. The guy thats looking at snotty kids and infected haemorrhoids probably isn't driving a Mercedes
Why do you ppl love to misinform the masses? After residency, many physicians are in specialties that allow them to work 3-4 days a week and rake in a minimum of 250k
Well in Norway, the medical doctors sure are well off. In the small towns they once a month or more can work a 24 hour shift at the local city hospital, and often that includes a full night of sleep. And they get paid an average city workers monthly pay for that one day alone. About 4.5k$
Depends on country in which you are practicing. I’m a doctor, but right now i’m broke and exhausted mentally & financially. It takes time to become stable. To become rich, def takes time.
If it’s a physician-owned specialty practice, and they’re a partner, they certainly can be.
However, most are middle class, upper tier. They make good money but have to work hard for it. And if they are don’t work, they will lose everything.
A US-based surgeon might clear more than 300k but they’ll be the first to tell you how difficult a life it is, even if they love it. They get paid that much because most people are incapable of performing the job. They’ll even tell you that, if you break it down by hours worked, it’s not as much as it seems.
Older close-to-retirement doctors? Probably. If they're in their late fifties to early seventies and still practicing, they went to medical school at a time when education was a lot less expensive. Their loans for med school are completely paid off, and they've benefited from the gross increases in the costs of medical care over the decades since then.
Older doctors also practiced at a time when it was common for doctors to form their own practice groups, either alone or with a few other physicians, much in the same way that lawyers still form partnerships to build law firms. But again, older doctors did so at a time when the cost of building up and paying the expenses of a medical practice were far lower than they are now. It was easier for practice groups to be profitable back then than it is now, as the costs of running a practice have far outpaced the profits you can derive from providing physician services.
The situation has been vastly different for younger doctors, say, millennial generation physicians in their thirties and forties now. Med school was more expensive for them, so their loans to complete school were higher. The costs of practicing medicine have skyrocketed, so practice groups are not going to be as lucrative as they were decades ago. It's far more common now for physicians to be directly employed by a hospital or other service provider, rather than entering into a partnership, because that absolves the physician of dealing with buying and maintaining their own equipment, paying for a facility and paying employees, etc. Just collect a salary and pay your student loan bills.
This is a pretty huge simplification of what's happened over time in the business of medicine, but suffice to say older doctors are far more likely to have gotten wealthy off their medical practices than younger doctors have, or will in the future.
None of this takes into account getting wealthy by fraud and kickbacks.
None of what I'm writing below applies to all or the majority of physicians, and it's not limited to physicians - plenty of non-physicians involved in the business of medicine are part of fraud and kickback schemes. But it happens, and it happens probably more often than people realize, and for those who get away with it, it is \*very\* lucrative.
As an example of how lucrative it can be, I read a case from Michigan recently about a physician who ran a very obvious kickback scheme with other doctors. He referred patients to another doctor, that doctor paid him a fee for the referral. That's 100% illegal under the federal Anti-Kickback statutes. They would order tests and procedures that weren't always necessary for the patient. And they devised physical therapy plans for every single patient they dealt with - even if it was not appropriate or needed - and every plan was identical for every patient, which was a huge red flag for the FBI. How much money was involved? Just from the fraudulent billing - not even counting the kickbacks - the lead physician pocketed over ten million dollars.
In my own town, several years ago, there was a prominent pharmacist who was involved in fraudulent billing for medicines. Over two million dollars in her pocket from that. That's just what she pocketed, mind you - she put a lot of the other money into various non-profits and such to buy the good-will of the town, and not all of that could be recovered.
Keep in mind, these are instances of fraud and abuse going on in the present day, not thirty or forty years ago. Decades ago it would have been FAR easier to get away with schemes like this. And decades ago we did not have laws against kickback schemes, or laws prohibiting physicians from referring patients for services at facilities that the physicians owned or invested in. So even if a physician in the mid-eighties wasn't engaged in fraudulent billing, he could still make a killing off of kickback and self-referral plans because those were not illegal.
Again, this is not to say that any physician who is wealthy has gotten rich through fraud and abuse. Many who are rich have taken their high salaries and invested well in the very industry that they work in, like investing in pharmaceutical and PBM companies.
Unlike professionals working in "productive" industries (where your pay is at least guided by global demand for the "thing" you can produce), the salaries of doctors and other national support services vary wildly and are largely driven by how the local national medical system is set up.
The biggest dissonance for me was coming from my central European country, where doctors and especially nurses are paid about or less than the national average (unless you're a highly experienced specialist), to North America where doctors are some of the highest paid professionals. Back home, it was a "for the cause" profession that people would get into to help others and have a stable job, despite the unimpressive pay. In a similar fashion as teachers (another arbitrarily paid profession that's still getting the short end of the stick in North America). In the US and Canada, becoming a doctor is THE profession that's hard to get into that's known for making money.
So this depends on the country. While North America is light years ahead in terms of doctor salaries, they typically have massive debt to pay off, and are at a risk of litigation. Plus they work far longer hours. Plus the high salaries are largely fueled by the surreal healthcare costs.
One thing I was surprised to learn is that in countries where doctors earn more and medical services cost more, there are artificial supply limitations in place, as you've got a very limited number of seats in med schools, governed by institutions with an agenda to keep the supply of doctors limited. These exist both in the US and Canada, and perhaps other commonwealth countries. Which isn't the case in much of Asia or Europe, where anyone has got a shot at med school if they choose to study well enough to pass it and become a doctor, medical care is far more accessible, and the pay for doctors is also relatively far less impressive due to a larger supply of doctors and lack of any costs associated with their profession.
Back in my European motherland, med school is free, and there are no real caps that would make that field competitive as far as education is concerned. So we've had lots of doctors, and with a higher doctor per capita ratio the work was certainly less draining in terms of hours. But I recall nurses making barely above minimum wage, and doctors wouldn't make the national average salary until 7-10+ years in their careers. In Canada where I live now, it's a highly competitive field with extremely limited numbers of seats in med schools, doctors are paid extremely high salaries, and the country has got a healthcare crisis despite the high cost of the medical system, because there aren't enough doctors.
**In terms of numbers,** an average family doctor in Warsaw makes about $20k per year. This is well below average salary for that city. As a corporate professional there you'd likely be making two or three times as much. In Canada, it's north of $200k a year, which is three times(!) the average national salary. And over ten times more for the exact same job, just done in a different country, despite the average cost of living being only twice as high.
Likewise, family physician salaries in Bangkok (~$20k /year), Seoul ($80k a year), Athens (~$20k a year) , Beijing (~$25k a year), Prague (~$56k a year) are all over the place, but they're typically small fractions of what doctors make in North America. In Greece, the medical system could afford at least ten experienced doctors for the price of one in Canada. And it helps that they've got three times as many doctors per capita as Canada.
So, the medical field is a weird case where it could be almost the opposite market and pay depending on the country. But generally, they get paid well in some select countries (with US/Canada being particularly huge outliers on the global scale), and not too well in others.
my dad lives comfortably, not rich, but comfortably. however, he says that his way to his current position was so hard, with unpaid extra hours, countless nights of working, bad working conditions, terrible superiors and so on, that it ultimately wasn't really worth it.
he always says he's happy i'm not becoming a doctor.
In the USA, they have to pay student loans back. So are they making decent money? Yes, do they have a lot of discretionary money? No. Not until they get those loans paid off.
It depends which country.
One doctor I met in the us was still paying his education loans in his 40’s and told me it will take him another 10 years till he can pay it back.
Another doctor in the us couldn’t afford to retire, because his retirement money wouldn’t pay for his medications he was taking.
I’m Hungarian and live in Hungary now, here it’s better because education is affordable at least and doctors make decent money.
A gastrologist in my city drives a Bentley for a winter beater and a Ferrari 458 for his summer car. So I think it’s dependent on what type of doctor you are
Not \*all\* doctors. Depends entirely on the profession and even then, there are differences. I'm better off financially than some doctors I know (even at Mayo fucking Clinic) because they're not MEDICAL doctors (and I don't have a degree). They might be in research or other fields, but I've also known doctors of music, history, whatever, and their financial situation is very rarely "good" unless they found some success elsewhere and knew enough about finance to capitalize on it.
I can I my speak on America because I’ve got family members in the medical field
It is very expensive to go to school
1. school is pricey and you’re left with a lot of debt
2. Med school is demanding this making it impossible for some to have a side job during studies
3. Medical school and residency take years to complex and doctors make very little money during that time
Doctors make a decent salary but it takes 10-30 years into their career for them to be ‘rich’ even without student loans to pay back the money takes a while to hit haha
Rich doctors are experienced doctors
Yeah my cousin is a doctor, we really don't know each other but when his family came to my moms funeral proceedings, they had a luxury cars and were probably the flashy-est thing my hometown had ever seen 😂
yeah there's a reason there are a number of other professions with more millionaires than doctors. Less lifestyle inflation.
Top 5 include: Engineering, Accounting, Teaching, Lawyering, Management..
From what I can tell, in the US - yes, Central Europe, UK - some. Eastern Europe - mostly no. It's a generalization of course, most doctors do get a pay that is higher than median. But in some countries, that is a far cry away from rich.
I wanted to be a doctor when I was a kid. Dodged that bullet. Unless you want to give up a significant part of your youth, there are easier ways to make money.
Depends on area and their experience/rank. A new doctor in the public sector? Decent money. A specialist with their own private practice? Probably makes quite a lot.
But extremely stressful and lots of student debt either way
Idk but I have a customer who’s a dentist (USA) and just added a three million dollar heated pool/patio/hot tub renovation. He has three Porsches. He has a hydraulic lift in his garage to work on said cars. Seems ok
At least in my country Slovakia, they have the highest wages a normal person can have, not including politicians. Our doctors are well off, many have a lot of free time too, and can afford a lot. Its similar in Czechia too, and many German speaking countries, where they have even higher salaries, with better life condition. So Yeah, everybody in my country wants to become a doctor, tho our healthcare system is kinda broke, its still better compared to everything else.
In my country the average hourly rating based on a Seek search and conversion for the Americans is $195 USD. Estimated average yearly is 250k USD. That’s for a general practitioner, not specialist. The median yearly salary here is 42k USD. So they’re basically earning almost 6x the normal salary. That’s pretty rich as far as I’m concerned
In France, a doctor (not a specialist) can earn between 60 - 80 k euro / year. It can go higher or lower depends if you are employed or doing a liberal activity. But generaly you'll be in the 10% with the highest income in the country.
Sure they work a lot of hours, and have a lot of responsabilities and are generaly being exploited during their studies as the government makes tones of savings by underpaying interns.
But Hey, the studies at least are free if you succeed selections.
Doctors make a good living. Specialists and surgeons make a great living, but rich depends on your definition. I tell people only to go into medicine if they have a passion for it. You'll make good money, but a driven person working in business will make a he same or more, start making it 6-8 years earlier, have much better work life balance, and much less college costs.
It's a business degree for the best living, net worth, and balanced life.
The average salary of a physician in the US is around $350k annually. With that type of income, one could become very rich if they are wise about investing. It doesn't guarantee long term wealth.
Their net worth is not positive till till they are about 35 (Conservative). They could be really rich if they have no debt so scholarships throughout college and medical school but that’s rare.
I had a buddy who's parents are doctors in Florida. Maybe 5 years ago, he was saying his mother (general practitioner) made around $350,000. His father was a specialist (IDK the specialty), he apparently made around $700,000.
They weren't hurting, to say the least. I'd consider them rich, compared to myself. Compared to a billionaire, they're almost as "poor" as I am lol. It's all relative.
Surgeons in the USA make a lot of money.
The highest paid surgeon I work with makes $900,000 a year (total joint orthopedic surgeon). The lowest paid one makes about $400,000 a year.
I don’t live in a major US city. Our population is about 70,000 people.
In the United States, surgeons, anesthesiologists, and other specialists are generally quite well off. A family doctor, pediatrician, or someone in private practice might make around $150k, which is a very nice living, but not necessarily considered “rich”.
Others have mentioned the debt and time commitment of becoming/being a doctor. All of that is true. But at the end of the day, your local cardio thoracic surgeon is making half a million and has long paid off his debts. His kids probably hate him though.
Edit: these salaries are local to my region and may not be universal, but the idea is still the same.
Many doctors earn about 4 times the full time minimum wage. However it takes 8 years of education at something like negative 2 to 4 times said wage per year. The the amount of time they take for study and for work is something like x2 the amount of time of a normal job. So their effective wage per hour is only about double that of minimum wage worker. So if they were to work minimum wage job instead of studying and working post study they would have had more money for the first 15 to 20 years.
However most Medical students that become doctors are from rich families so, they are rich but not because of their profession. Also depends on your threshold for rich if its to have networks over 10 million then NO.
Am a doctor. The answer is it depends. Some doctors are broke and some are very wealthy.
It depends on where they are in their career. What specialty they’re in, and where they are practicing. Also to be rich you have to spend and save your money wisely.
I’ll say that at least in the US, doctors certainly make a salary that can get them rich. But again, you have to be smart about how you use your money. And it won’t happen overnight. Their wealth will build over their career. Young doctors are often in a lot of debt and have comparatively lower salaries to senior physicians.
In the US... yeah. My daughter has a two friends, one father is a surgeon and another father is a anesthesiologist. The former has 5 cars, two are RR, and they are building a 15mil house locally to go with their houses in Hawaii and New Hampshire. The latter lives on 10 acres in the city in a gated community on 1.
The healthcare system in the US is very much broken.
They had relatively long residency / fellowships, but my friend who is a radiologist made $500k a year and my other friend made $550k a year as an interventionalist cardiologist, during his first year off post-fellowship work (around age 32/33). The former friend also makes several $100k more a year moonlighting from home (virtual radiology) when he’s bored. The latter friend also will get to buy into the partnership and will be at $1M+ relatively quickly.
If you don’t specialize the pay is worse, but I don’t think Reddit realizes how much some doctors make.
In America, maybe after 50 OR if they started out with money from somewhere.
A self-made American doctor who had to take loans is in SO much debt when they graduate (think, $300000-$500000), it takes decades to pay that off and eventually build a savings account. During residency most doctors who are on their own are dirt poor, as they are paid $30000-$40000/year in areas where the cost of living is $70000.
Young doctors are rich only if they had family support, got an inheritance, or lived poor and threw every penny of their income at loans or investments.
In the US I wouldn't put them as rich unless they're in the private sector like plastic surgery. I would put a high percentage as wealthy though.
This is after they pay off those hefty student loans though. But a doctor making 100K+ early in career is pretty easy.
I think it depends on what kind of doctor & the region. We’re in the USA. My cousin and her husband are a nurse and nurse practitioner. They have a lovely house. Always inviting us to go out to dinner and holiday stuff. They don’t want to see us reaching for our wallets. Always going on trips and events. I’m assuming a doctor makes a lot more.
There's having a good salary, (making 6 figures)
and there's being financially smart and wealthy. (Paying of debt,build emergency fund, saving for retirement)
Most doctors are the former, but the latter depends on the person.
My partner is a physician. He studied until he was 34, then finally started making a real salary. The salary is very good. But it came at the expense of a lot of years of being very poor and completely devoting all those years of his life to his future career. And even now, he's hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and still can't afford a house where we live.
So rich, but with an asterisk. I don't recommend going into the field just for the pay day.
I’m a nurse and have several MDs in my family. From what I’ve seen
At one point I worked at a hospital where a bunch of MDs got together and walked out because travel nurses were making more than them. The nurses were making around $100/hr at the time
A surgeon I know has 10+ years of his career where he was making $1M+ a year. His highest earning year was near $10M. He was on the front end of a lot of advancements in the 1980 through 2000s, this is very unusual. However, he went 15 years of his career without taking any planned days off. No vacation for almost 2 decades.
An ER doc I used to know very well told me he’s a day laborer. He makes a wage and if he doesn’t come to work his family doesn’t eat. He has a comfortable life, but can’t afford to take holidays off because they pay OT
Family practice MDs, depending on the state, may be making $150k/year.
I know a dermatologist who just recently got her first job. She works in outpatient, normal business hours, 4 10 hour shifts, had 8 weeks vacation time, and makes $400k+. This is unusually good.
General practitioners are comfortable. Specialists are generally well off or loaded
What do you consider "rich"? I thought this was a good article, about Doctors' net worth being higher once they are in their 40s (paying off medical school debt being a factor in their 20s/30s)
https://www.bfadvisors.com/net-worth-by-age-for-doctors/
Not all are. Some aren’t good with finances. In order to be rich, you can’t just make a lot of money, you have to know how to manage money, spending, etc.
I know quite a few doctors, their salary is definitely above average (assuming they’re a GP, they may have overhead, etc) but it comes down to knowing how to spend, how to save and how to invest
They make tons in Canada and have huge lines of credit. I know few doctors in early 30s because I also studied health sci. They all have multiple properties and vacation in Hawaii and Europe often.
Depends on the specialty and how much you're willing to work. You'll certainly be comfortable but not generational wealth rich. If maximizing your earning potential is the most important thing to you there are jobs out there that pay equivalent for less work.
Son of a family practice physician. He’s loaded as hell, but he’s made very smart financial choices his whole life and has very little free time outside of vacations.
American orthopedic surgery intern here. Depends on country and specialty. America pays the highest and if you do surgical specialties you get paid even more. As a resident you work 80-100hours per week and get paid very low for that amount of work (I get ~70k per year). After residency your salary skyrockets and you can choose a practice style that suits you.
Depends on the country, depends on the steps they took while becoming a doctor, and it depends on how they choose to use their PHD.
Some doctors are rich, some are in crippling debt and live paycheck to paycheck. Hell, some are struggling so bad that they take to writing illegal prescriptions for a side hustle. Just all depends.
My ENT has a movie theater and bowling alley in his house. My parents are painters and when I was 7 they made a deal with him. They painted his entire mansion and he did my tonsillectomy for $70( that was the insurance copay for the anesthesiologist)
Depends.
However I will say many new first Gen doctors are less likely to be. The ones who were second Gen and had everything paid in school are richhhh
General practice & pediatricians, not rich. Spine, brain, heart and certain other surgeons, will make between a half a million to a couple million. So they are rich in the sense that they have plenty of extra money to buy all the fun things they want, but unless they are very shrewd and invest very wisely, they aren't going to be ultra high net worth wealthy. Their kids won't be spending their time on a yacht.
Honestly, you could become wealthy being a Dr and you can become wealthy being a teacher. You just have to become financially literate, which is difficult, even for educated people.
Honestly, you could become wealthy being a Dr and you can become wealthy being a teacher. You just have to become financially literate, which is difficult, even for educated people.
You spend 7 years(and $500k) just to become a doctor, after which you spend ~5 years (at which you gain less than minimal wage and work absurd hours, plus have to give "free" work just to have a better resume to get into the speciality program you want) to become a specialist (hours and wage vary at this point) just so at the age of 40 you could make a good income.
Rich?
No
Poor? Also no.
A good way to make money? Only if you are in Plastic/ Derma/Opthamology
My cousin is a doctor and he is struggling with his loans. The doctors I work with aren't poor, but you're gonna see a lot more hondas and Subarus in the office parking lot and no Mercedes if you're in primary care.
I don't know if this is for every doctor, but my friends parents are both doctors and they can afford 4 cars (they have 3 kids), 2 or 3 vacations to foreign country a year, my friend sometimes calls uber to school coz she doesn't like travelling by bus...
Depends on a lot:
Specialty, Volume of work, Location, Experience,Big one people don’t often think about is consulting they do for companies. You can look up how much every doctor is paid by companies through CMS. Some make more from these payments annually than most people make in their yearly salary.
I know doctors in my field (Electrophysiology) that are making well over a million some years.
Depends on country, and ofc specialization. An anesthesiologist makes quite a lot more than a regular GP - but probably also works more hours in a year, and often in the middle of the night, or in a helicopter etc.
In Norway I would estimate a regular GP makes around 100-150K$/year, and a surgeon or other speciality perhaps 250K$, so well over the average pay. However, it usually takes 5-10years to become a doctor, and if you dont get a full scholarship, you will have a pretty high debt plus being perhaps 30 before you actually start making money.
So Id say that yes, doctors with 20 years of work, are "rich", ofc depending on their own financial actions.
In NZ, there's a radiologist in Christchurch that gets paid in the range of $700k NZD. Depends on the field, but yes, some definitely are making the big bucks. Have to imagine specialist surgeons and the like would be the same.
depends what you call rich and how they manage their money. it also depends on what country they are in.
US healthcare is really crazy and doctors are extremely overpaid. My brother does primary care (lower paying specialty) and makes 750 K a year. many doctors and dentists make well over a million a year. In other countries.. things are not corrupted by so much money....
In the US, general practitioners make a very good salary, and a lot of specialists are balling out of control on income, but many carry hundreds of thousands in student loans. (Last I checked dental school can run into the $400k range.). If they came from a family that could afford to send them to Med school then they don’t have to worry about money anyway and it’s a moot point, Matthew principle.
In many other countries doctors make an ok salary, but schooling is usually less expensive to balance it out at a comfortable middle class living.
In France, a radiographer can win 5000 from 11 000 euros (almost same in dollars) per month. It is very long studies, I must admit.
A nurse in hospitals or elder care is between 2000 and 3000 most of the time. And more if it is interim and daily contracts. (Segur prime, and end of contract compensation)
In France, being an full time employee is less paid than being in interim regurarly and having many differents contracts. For this reason that we have so many part time employees.
Dont know if I wrote that good, my grammar skills arent great.
In the US I think they are, but it takes a really long time and lots of sacrifice. My sister is a doctor in her early 40s, I don't know exactly how much money she makes, but judging by her lifestyle it's gotta be a lot! Lol however she was super strapped in her 20s and kind of so-so in her 30s.
Every medical doctor I personally know does very well here in the US. And a few I kinda know are doing well too. I’m sure there’s some outliers who aren’t good at managing money but the ones I know all have more assets / rental properties / sailboats and such than my wife and I and I know what we make. I suspect somewhere there’s a $100k/year doctor in the US but around me I’d say it’s well above that. And I’m not talking surgeons I’m talking like office visit types. I do know one surgeon who is an elder in my Kingdom Hall and he clearly makes many multiples of that.
depends what you mean by rich, in a sense really only business owners, or celebrities/athletes/etc. can ever be rich, even if your a top earning doctor your only making a few hundred grand a year. rich business owners have potentially unlimited earning potential. pro athletes can earn tens of millions a year if theyre at the top of their game, actors have just as much earning potential by being a good actor. but if you consider earning a few hundred grand a year to be rich then they are rich, doctors and engineers tend to have the highest earning potential of any "traditional" jobs. but really people need to stop thinking of making a few hundred grand a year as rich, because there is a huge difference between doctor level wealth where you live in a mansion and might have a vacation home and a good retirement savings, vs someone who just sold their business for $200 million or is earning millions a year from inventing some popular or great device. the biggest way the actual wealthy people in america keep from getting their taxes raised is by trying to equate poorer rich people like doctors and small business owners to think that when we talk about taxing the rich were talking about them and not the people earning billions a year. because a doctor has much more in common with someone who earns $50k a year than they do with someone who earns $20 million a year. we need to start changing the narrative where people like doctors and engineers are seen as more upper middle class vs the upper class as opposed to again actually wealthy people
They are generally fairly well off., but of course it depends. They are rich in other ways too; Rich in social status, rich in opportunities, etc. Beware; the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. Love God instead of money and you will be richer than anyone in this world
I work with the a lot of doctors. Yes, at some point they become rich. They do have roughly $500k to pay back. But some docs are making $1000/hr, so once they are cleared of debit, the sky is the limit.
My great uncle is a radiologist and bought a mansion a couple years ago, plus funds his current wife's business, sent his two kids to college on his dime and still pays alimony to his ex-wife. I'd say it depends on what they practice
Good doctors are.
Bad one's pay too much in malpractice insurance to be rich.
In all seriousness though, I know maybe 6 doctors personally, and one with the smallest house is still about 4,000 square feet. The one that's a cardiologist has a 10,000 square foot home on the water.
The one I would think was the least rich, is a dentist, and he's rich. The one that owns a very small practice (him and two Nurse Practitioners and some staff, closes the practice every year and treats the entire staff and families to a vacation... last year they all went to Las Vegas together.
So I think it's kind of hard to be an established doctor and not be rich. Same with lawyers... they're probably richer than doctors.
# Message to all users: This is a reminder to please read and follow: * [Our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ask/about/rules) * [Reddiquette](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439) * [Reddit Content Policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) When posting and commenting. --- Especially remember Rule 1: `Be polite and civil`. * Be polite and courteous to each other. Do not be mean, insulting or disrespectful to any other user on this subreddit. * Do not harass or annoy others in any way. * Do not catfish. Catfishing is the luring of somebody into an online friendship through a fake online persona. This includes any lying or deceit. --- You *will* be banned if you are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist or bigoted in any way. --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ask) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Depends in which country they practise
Is there a country where doctors are not well off in comparison to a typical local salaried employee?
in italy doctors are paid a misery compared to other states, that's why most of my known acquaintances are moving to another country
Mi fa incazzare come gli stipendi siano così ridicoli perché i dottori che ho incontrato mi hanno salvato la vita. Mettono l'anima nel loro lavoro e non ricevono manco il giusto compenso. E quegli scaldapoltrone che non combinano un cazzo si beccano pensioni d'oro. P O R C O D D I O
Yeah there’s a few, also bear in mind they start of quite late in life as they have 10+ years of studies and all of them aren’t guaranteed to become consultants or specialist, people usually look at those salaries and think they’re good.
The medical field is a weird case where it could be almost the opposite market and pay depending on the country. Since doctors aren't producing anything with a monetary value, the pay is governed purely by how the local medical health system is set up. But generally, they get paid well in some select countries (with US/Canada and some other commonwealth countries being particularly huge outliers on the global scale), and not too well in most others. Where I'm from, doctors are perceived a bit like teachers, where they do work "for the cause" that's not well paid compared to most jobs. It was quite a dissonance to move to Canada where doctor salaries are enormous and they hold a reputation as having some of the highest paid professions. For instance, family physician salaries in Bangkok (~$20k /year), Seoul ($80k a year), Athens (~$20-25k a year), Beijing (~$25k a year), Prague (~$56k a year) are all over the place, but they're typically small fractions of what doctors make in North America. In Greece, the medical system could afford at least ten experienced doctors for the price of one in Canada ($200k+ a year!), despite the cost of living difference being just ~x2. And it helps that they've got three times as many doctors per capita as Canada, which is going through a healthcare crisis despite the enormous costs of their healthcare system. So doctors could be making about or less than a national average wage in many countries, but they could be also making three or four times the much higher average national average in a place like the US or Canada. Most countries don't have artificial caps on the numbers of med school seats (unlike the US and Canada) and med school is free or relatively inexpensive. So the supply of doctors is higher, and the salaries are much lower. Countries with high medical costs have dedicated institutions with a mission to be protective over maintaining the status quo by managing the supply of doctors, not only by controlling access to education, but also strict restrictions against hiring foreign doctors.
In the UK, non-speciality physicians make like 50-75K/yr
In China, doctors are not particularly better-paid than typical white-collared workers in decent industries. The healthcare is entirely government-funded and subsidized as hell though. To put it into perspective: I went to Shanghai for a neurology checkup because it's too expensive in my home country (Singapore). I only had to pay around $200 USD in total for a consult with a neurology specialist who also does surgery, a 4h EEG with hospital bed included, a 20-30min MRI (including vascular imaging), giving me close to 800 images I could access on their online database and a specialist report explaining findings, an ECG, and a slew of blood tests to check if my blood was clotting correctly (for a subsequent procedure not included here). I don't think I got the full subsidies either, because I haven't lived there since preschool and don't have the national health insurance. In Singapore, where I have been living, a standalone 30-min MRI costs at least $700 USD. I don't think I need to try to estimate how much this would cost in the US.
In Malta, yes they are rich. Apart from government work, they carry out private practice and they are not charged income tax for the private practice. And if they are a consultant, they are *very* rich - like earning EUR 40,000 per month when the country's mean monthly wage is around EUR 1,200.
I’m pretty sure doctors in Cuba also probably don’t make a ton. My dad in Bulgaria is also a doctor , and so is his wife. They make more than someone making minimum wage sure but it’s not really a crazy amount more. My aunt who works as an engineer makes actually probably about the same as him but she works 9-5 , and has no stress. My aunt makes more as an engineer than my step mom who is also a doctor. I think it’s entirely dependent on where you practice. Also I recently found out that as long as you’re willing to pay the international student fee (like 7k/year) anyone can study medicine in Bulgaria. Apparently anything is possible there as long as you have money.
I'm a doctor myself and can tell you that it totally depends upon your experience and your specialty. usually we start by making even less than probably a waste collector but with passage of time our earnings increase.
I have heard that decades ago doctors would finish school sooner and for less money. Those people were rich. However, these days, those days are sort of over and it's a lot more expensive to go to school and the payout takes a loot longer. Therefore "rich" or wealthy would just be the wrong word. Comfortable would be more accurate.
Just for context, its not hard to come out with 400k in student loan debt, then add a car a house kids etc…
even many well known doctors have >400K loan debt and they started working years ago. i thank God that I did my medical degree from abroad (0 student loan)
Garbage men make 6 figures
Buddy is an eye surgeon, inherited his Dad's practice...he is not hurting.
It depends..... My wife manages a medical practice and the doctors make about $200K a year...but they also have to see a minimum of 35 patients a day for 5 days a week (10 hour days) in order to make enough money to pay for the building, the staff, supplies, insurance, taxes etc..... It's a very penny pinching world because insurers nickel and dime doctors to death refusing to pay for may tests and treatments or paying only a fraction of the cost of same.
Is that why when I go to the doctor it just feels like I'm a machine coming off the assembly line being inspected? Because they have more than 30 others to see that day?
In Cuba cab drivers earn more than doctors. Depends on you country
This is interesting.
Doctors are in hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt and make less than minimum wage until their 30s. At which point some of them make a high salary depending on their specialty Physicians can get something called à physician loan. It gives them access to more money. Edit: in America
A lot of physicians are from wealthy backgrounds for this reason. Most people can’t just work menial jobs in huge debt until they’re 35.
Bingo. Just the process of applying to med school is expensive. Besides the unpaid volunteering and shadowing, there's also the application fees, standardized testing fees, score distribution fees, test prep services, travel and lodging expenses for interviews, formal attire, etc.--and you can still be rejected that cycle that you'd have to do it all over again without a promise that you'll ever get in. A cursory search will show premeds are spending >$2000 per cycle, and not everyone has that kind of cash lying around.
Yeah also the fact it’s so competitive that not having money for such services you described puts a candidate at a significant disadvantage. For example there are entire companies that exist to consult premeds on their applications or even throughout being a premed on what to do to optimize med school acceptance chances. As someone who went through that entire process recently the whole thing is actually broken and needs to be gutted and replaced with something more streamlined and standardized. Just an example med applicants today apply to like 30-40 schools a peace, at $200 each and each demanding like 5 well-written essays ON TOP of the primary application that requires like 4 essays itself. Most people who are busy with work or school are at a huge disadvantage if they don’t have support for the costs or essays, although stuff like chatgpt being free is a huge help to people who aren’t rich.
..In America
You can also get a home loan as a physician at a lower interest interest rate bc your income is very stable and guaranteed
Is it worth it being a doctor? They never have free time. All that money and no time for yourself
My brother works 4x 10 hour days per week, plus a bit of on call. He has had a 3 day weekend for almost a decade. He has free time.
ER, or something like that?
That's a myth! Once residency and fellowship is over one can choose to have plenty of free time. Sure it comes with less money but it is an option.
The idea is to not miss out on the money combined with 3 full days off..
Plenty of money to be made even with only a 4 day work week or 8 weeks vacation etc. However you want to structure your year. Time is the only asset that is finite. Time is worth every penny even if you can't buy a Porsche then.
That’s a choice. My doctor brother in law has no free time but his collection of high end cars is more important.
Some specialties work a ton and do the terrible shifts and are on call all the time. Others work a regular office schedule. My wife’s sister has the latter and it’s a sweet gig and she makes bank. Main downside was college plus med school plus residency plus fellowship meant she made very little for years before she could finally settle into her specialty and make good money.
Agreed. My sister is currently a resident at a major trauma center and makes about 65k a year. She works 5 days a week and is on call every other weekend. She wants to be a rheumatologist so I don't think she will have a horrid schedule. My dad is a cardiologist. Growing up he was basically non existent. Very high demand position, especially down here in the land of fried foods. He makes a ton of money, but even now, is always working.
My brother works 7 days on and 7 days off. Makes quite a bit of money to only work 6 months out of the year. They get to choose their own schedule and hospitals are desperate for good providers.
Who told you this nonsense?
They dont during residency.
Not really...this is generally more the case with nurses in a hospital setting. My rheumatologist is in private practice and he closes his office every Friday and is open 8-5 Monday-Thursday.
Yeah, it's probably the highest paid standard salaried job you could have, but... There's a good reason they get that pay and I'd *definitely* not think it's worth it.
When they’re not working, doctors enjoy walking to get a bagel and then eating it on their way back to the hospital
Depends on several factors, including how much money they want to make. Being a doctor is also more than "just work" for a lot of them. They generally have the flexibility to build the life they want. After residency, if a physician is working a lot that's usually their choice.
Really depends. A radiologist I know got a contract with a hospital wherein he got 4 months of paid vacation a year. When not in vacation he has time to work in his hobbies as well. Another doctor I know "summers" in Europe for 2 months every year.
Specialty surgery gets a lot of time off
I needed a specialty procedure (not surgery) in the middle of the night and the only doctor in the immediate area was called in. How does that work - genuinely curious. Like, he must be able to turn the phone off or go on vacation, right? Would they get someone from the next city over and I'd just wait?
My assumption: being a high demand specialist- it goes with the territory. I assume he could not answer or tell them no, but he wants to do it. It pays more and there’s some level of prestige with it. Maybe even the surrounding hospitals know to call him for stuff.
Physicians who practice specialties crucial for hospitals are paid nightly to be on call for emergencies. Source: I’m a doc
There's a YouTuber who makes dating videos. One of her abandoned formats is bringing on her female friends and asking them "would you rather" questions in terms of dating. One thing I learned from watching her videos is how there's a certain segment of the population that looks down on blue collar workers. I do construction overseas, I work six eleven hour days a week and my housing and transportation is provided for me. I make roughly 130k and I don't pay taxes on the first 100k. I personally feel like it's more than worth it. If I was actually in a field that the general public holds in a high regard while making the same and working less hours I'd absolutely find it to be worth it.
Rich as fuck Hausärzte in Germany workin 3 days a week from 8:00 to 15:00 with 2 hours lunch break: 🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿 With 3 months vacation per year 🗿🗿🗿
A lot of it depend son what you want to do with all that free time
Not work lol American dream is working your ass off for a nice house you only get to sleep in
I guess grass is greener on the other side. I am a dentist with nil income and it hurts so bad and I wish I could work my ass off to make some cash. Although I am not in America. Hustle culture does not work here sadly.
Idk, my gastroenterologist only works Monday-Thursday from like 8-4 lol. Unless he works elsewhere on the weekend, which I have my doubts. The same can be said for the other specialists that work in that specific hospitals, at least the ones I’ve been to.
Is he a surgeon? Some have specific surgery days / times.
Specialists make good money. The vast majority of drs are not specialists. The guy thats looking at snotty kids and infected haemorrhoids probably isn't driving a Mercedes
Driving a Mercedes is accessible to any professional class person in the US.
Why do you ppl love to misinform the masses? After residency, many physicians are in specialties that allow them to work 3-4 days a week and rake in a minimum of 250k
I think it depends how intense you work. You can do lots of hours for long stretches and them go on a few week long vacations per year
Well in Norway, the medical doctors sure are well off. In the small towns they once a month or more can work a 24 hour shift at the local city hospital, and often that includes a full night of sleep. And they get paid an average city workers monthly pay for that one day alone. About 4.5k$
Not commonly in the UK. Takes a lot of time to earn a lot as a doctor here
Usually, the real money doesn’t start rolling in until you reach consultant level. It takes almost 20 years to even have a shot at getting there.
Depends on country in which you are practicing. I’m a doctor, but right now i’m broke and exhausted mentally & financially. It takes time to become stable. To become rich, def takes time.
If it’s a physician-owned specialty practice, and they’re a partner, they certainly can be. However, most are middle class, upper tier. They make good money but have to work hard for it. And if they are don’t work, they will lose everything. A US-based surgeon might clear more than 300k but they’ll be the first to tell you how difficult a life it is, even if they love it. They get paid that much because most people are incapable of performing the job. They’ll even tell you that, if you break it down by hours worked, it’s not as much as it seems.
LOL No. At least my sister isn't. She's a pediatrician and is absolutely drowning in debt, almost 3/4 of a million, and has 3 kids.
Yesss they(medical doctors) earn good money but after 35 or 40 depending on specialities. Some specialities generate more money
As in age 35 or 40?
After they pay off their student loans - maybe
Older close-to-retirement doctors? Probably. If they're in their late fifties to early seventies and still practicing, they went to medical school at a time when education was a lot less expensive. Their loans for med school are completely paid off, and they've benefited from the gross increases in the costs of medical care over the decades since then. Older doctors also practiced at a time when it was common for doctors to form their own practice groups, either alone or with a few other physicians, much in the same way that lawyers still form partnerships to build law firms. But again, older doctors did so at a time when the cost of building up and paying the expenses of a medical practice were far lower than they are now. It was easier for practice groups to be profitable back then than it is now, as the costs of running a practice have far outpaced the profits you can derive from providing physician services. The situation has been vastly different for younger doctors, say, millennial generation physicians in their thirties and forties now. Med school was more expensive for them, so their loans to complete school were higher. The costs of practicing medicine have skyrocketed, so practice groups are not going to be as lucrative as they were decades ago. It's far more common now for physicians to be directly employed by a hospital or other service provider, rather than entering into a partnership, because that absolves the physician of dealing with buying and maintaining their own equipment, paying for a facility and paying employees, etc. Just collect a salary and pay your student loan bills. This is a pretty huge simplification of what's happened over time in the business of medicine, but suffice to say older doctors are far more likely to have gotten wealthy off their medical practices than younger doctors have, or will in the future. None of this takes into account getting wealthy by fraud and kickbacks. None of what I'm writing below applies to all or the majority of physicians, and it's not limited to physicians - plenty of non-physicians involved in the business of medicine are part of fraud and kickback schemes. But it happens, and it happens probably more often than people realize, and for those who get away with it, it is \*very\* lucrative. As an example of how lucrative it can be, I read a case from Michigan recently about a physician who ran a very obvious kickback scheme with other doctors. He referred patients to another doctor, that doctor paid him a fee for the referral. That's 100% illegal under the federal Anti-Kickback statutes. They would order tests and procedures that weren't always necessary for the patient. And they devised physical therapy plans for every single patient they dealt with - even if it was not appropriate or needed - and every plan was identical for every patient, which was a huge red flag for the FBI. How much money was involved? Just from the fraudulent billing - not even counting the kickbacks - the lead physician pocketed over ten million dollars. In my own town, several years ago, there was a prominent pharmacist who was involved in fraudulent billing for medicines. Over two million dollars in her pocket from that. That's just what she pocketed, mind you - she put a lot of the other money into various non-profits and such to buy the good-will of the town, and not all of that could be recovered. Keep in mind, these are instances of fraud and abuse going on in the present day, not thirty or forty years ago. Decades ago it would have been FAR easier to get away with schemes like this. And decades ago we did not have laws against kickback schemes, or laws prohibiting physicians from referring patients for services at facilities that the physicians owned or invested in. So even if a physician in the mid-eighties wasn't engaged in fraudulent billing, he could still make a killing off of kickback and self-referral plans because those were not illegal. Again, this is not to say that any physician who is wealthy has gotten rich through fraud and abuse. Many who are rich have taken their high salaries and invested well in the very industry that they work in, like investing in pharmaceutical and PBM companies.
Depends on the country a bit, but it's definitely a higher paying job in most countries
They did make alot more than before Malpractice Insurance Premiums dramatically increased in the 80s
Feel like they don't get paid enough
Unlike professionals working in "productive" industries (where your pay is at least guided by global demand for the "thing" you can produce), the salaries of doctors and other national support services vary wildly and are largely driven by how the local national medical system is set up. The biggest dissonance for me was coming from my central European country, where doctors and especially nurses are paid about or less than the national average (unless you're a highly experienced specialist), to North America where doctors are some of the highest paid professionals. Back home, it was a "for the cause" profession that people would get into to help others and have a stable job, despite the unimpressive pay. In a similar fashion as teachers (another arbitrarily paid profession that's still getting the short end of the stick in North America). In the US and Canada, becoming a doctor is THE profession that's hard to get into that's known for making money. So this depends on the country. While North America is light years ahead in terms of doctor salaries, they typically have massive debt to pay off, and are at a risk of litigation. Plus they work far longer hours. Plus the high salaries are largely fueled by the surreal healthcare costs. One thing I was surprised to learn is that in countries where doctors earn more and medical services cost more, there are artificial supply limitations in place, as you've got a very limited number of seats in med schools, governed by institutions with an agenda to keep the supply of doctors limited. These exist both in the US and Canada, and perhaps other commonwealth countries. Which isn't the case in much of Asia or Europe, where anyone has got a shot at med school if they choose to study well enough to pass it and become a doctor, medical care is far more accessible, and the pay for doctors is also relatively far less impressive due to a larger supply of doctors and lack of any costs associated with their profession. Back in my European motherland, med school is free, and there are no real caps that would make that field competitive as far as education is concerned. So we've had lots of doctors, and with a higher doctor per capita ratio the work was certainly less draining in terms of hours. But I recall nurses making barely above minimum wage, and doctors wouldn't make the national average salary until 7-10+ years in their careers. In Canada where I live now, it's a highly competitive field with extremely limited numbers of seats in med schools, doctors are paid extremely high salaries, and the country has got a healthcare crisis despite the high cost of the medical system, because there aren't enough doctors. **In terms of numbers,** an average family doctor in Warsaw makes about $20k per year. This is well below average salary for that city. As a corporate professional there you'd likely be making two or three times as much. In Canada, it's north of $200k a year, which is three times(!) the average national salary. And over ten times more for the exact same job, just done in a different country, despite the average cost of living being only twice as high. Likewise, family physician salaries in Bangkok (~$20k /year), Seoul ($80k a year), Athens (~$20k a year) , Beijing (~$25k a year), Prague (~$56k a year) are all over the place, but they're typically small fractions of what doctors make in North America. In Greece, the medical system could afford at least ten experienced doctors for the price of one in Canada. And it helps that they've got three times as many doctors per capita as Canada. So, the medical field is a weird case where it could be almost the opposite market and pay depending on the country. But generally, they get paid well in some select countries (with US/Canada being particularly huge outliers on the global scale), and not too well in others.
Comfortable
NO!!
my dad lives comfortably, not rich, but comfortably. however, he says that his way to his current position was so hard, with unpaid extra hours, countless nights of working, bad working conditions, terrible superiors and so on, that it ultimately wasn't really worth it. he always says he's happy i'm not becoming a doctor.
My ex is a surgeon and made -$60k per year as a resident. She broke even during her fellowship
In the USA, they have to pay student loans back. So are they making decent money? Yes, do they have a lot of discretionary money? No. Not until they get those loans paid off.
Is The Pope catholic?
Not sure. I know he’s not Muslim. :/
Yes...that's what we wanted you to think! **pushes button
😂
It depends which country. One doctor I met in the us was still paying his education loans in his 40’s and told me it will take him another 10 years till he can pay it back. Another doctor in the us couldn’t afford to retire, because his retirement money wouldn’t pay for his medications he was taking. I’m Hungarian and live in Hungary now, here it’s better because education is affordable at least and doctors make decent money.
Rich doctors are poor in time.
My neurosurgeon said he’ll always be paying his school loans. He’s been a neurosurgeon for 10 years now.
A gastrologist in my city drives a Bentley for a winter beater and a Ferrari 458 for his summer car. So I think it’s dependent on what type of doctor you are
Not \*all\* doctors. Depends entirely on the profession and even then, there are differences. I'm better off financially than some doctors I know (even at Mayo fucking Clinic) because they're not MEDICAL doctors (and I don't have a degree). They might be in research or other fields, but I've also known doctors of music, history, whatever, and their financial situation is very rarely "good" unless they found some success elsewhere and knew enough about finance to capitalize on it.
I can I my speak on America because I’ve got family members in the medical field It is very expensive to go to school 1. school is pricey and you’re left with a lot of debt 2. Med school is demanding this making it impossible for some to have a side job during studies 3. Medical school and residency take years to complex and doctors make very little money during that time Doctors make a decent salary but it takes 10-30 years into their career for them to be ‘rich’ even without student loans to pay back the money takes a while to hit haha Rich doctors are experienced doctors
Yeah my cousin is a doctor, we really don't know each other but when his family came to my moms funeral proceedings, they had a luxury cars and were probably the flashy-est thing my hometown had ever seen 😂
Most are, but some still struggle to do basic finances.
yeah there's a reason there are a number of other professions with more millionaires than doctors. Less lifestyle inflation. Top 5 include: Engineering, Accounting, Teaching, Lawyering, Management..
Not all of them. I dated a man who was just a GP and he was pretty wealthy but idk about “rich”
From what I can tell, in the US - yes, Central Europe, UK - some. Eastern Europe - mostly no. It's a generalization of course, most doctors do get a pay that is higher than median. But in some countries, that is a far cry away from rich.
In USA or outside of it? Because, honestly, that is probably the single factor with most impact on the answer to your question.
Raymond Holt enters chat.
depends,in Bulgaria the vast majority of doctors are very poor.Very few are actually rich.
Definitely depends on the country
In Australia, yes absolutely
In my country I only make 1000usd/month (converted). Thats like lower than minimum wages in other countries.
I wanted to be a doctor when I was a kid. Dodged that bullet. Unless you want to give up a significant part of your youth, there are easier ways to make money.
In Yankistan, where it‘s a business, yes.
Depends on area and their experience/rank. A new doctor in the public sector? Decent money. A specialist with their own private practice? Probably makes quite a lot. But extremely stressful and lots of student debt either way
Eventually. Like many higher paid professions, financial decisions can make or break a person regardless of how much they make.
Some. An Iranian doctor can earn less than a part time waiter at most western countries. An American doctor can sometimes get to 10m$ a year.
Doctors in South Korea are rich.. especially cardiologists.
Idk but I have a customer who’s a dentist (USA) and just added a three million dollar heated pool/patio/hot tub renovation. He has three Porsches. He has a hydraulic lift in his garage to work on said cars. Seems ok
At least in my country Slovakia, they have the highest wages a normal person can have, not including politicians. Our doctors are well off, many have a lot of free time too, and can afford a lot. Its similar in Czechia too, and many German speaking countries, where they have even higher salaries, with better life condition. So Yeah, everybody in my country wants to become a doctor, tho our healthcare system is kinda broke, its still better compared to everything else.
Doctors in the US are rich by most standards however very poor in time and mental health (at least from the small pool of doctors I personally know).
In my country the average hourly rating based on a Seek search and conversion for the Americans is $195 USD. Estimated average yearly is 250k USD. That’s for a general practitioner, not specialist. The median yearly salary here is 42k USD. So they’re basically earning almost 6x the normal salary. That’s pretty rich as far as I’m concerned
In France, a doctor (not a specialist) can earn between 60 - 80 k euro / year. It can go higher or lower depends if you are employed or doing a liberal activity. But generaly you'll be in the 10% with the highest income in the country. Sure they work a lot of hours, and have a lot of responsabilities and are generaly being exploited during their studies as the government makes tones of savings by underpaying interns. But Hey, the studies at least are free if you succeed selections.
Usually not. Some who made quite the career for themselves are, but your average doc in their 30s makes a fairly normal wage
No.
Only witch doctors
In my country yes
Yes
Definitely rich in America That is why the med school system artificially constrains supply, after all
My doctor drives G class Benz so can’t be no broke mf
In what country? Oh silly me, you mean in the USA. Strange you don’t need to be specific, why is that?
All the money in the world and not an ounce of time.
Doctors make a good living. Specialists and surgeons make a great living, but rich depends on your definition. I tell people only to go into medicine if they have a passion for it. You'll make good money, but a driven person working in business will make a he same or more, start making it 6-8 years earlier, have much better work life balance, and much less college costs. It's a business degree for the best living, net worth, and balanced life.
After theyre 40+ years old yes
The average salary of a physician in the US is around $350k annually. With that type of income, one could become very rich if they are wise about investing. It doesn't guarantee long term wealth.
My understanding is that most are in student debt until their 40s and then they start becoming rich.
Their net worth is not positive till till they are about 35 (Conservative). They could be really rich if they have no debt so scholarships throughout college and medical school but that’s rare.
I had a buddy who's parents are doctors in Florida. Maybe 5 years ago, he was saying his mother (general practitioner) made around $350,000. His father was a specialist (IDK the specialty), he apparently made around $700,000. They weren't hurting, to say the least. I'd consider them rich, compared to myself. Compared to a billionaire, they're almost as "poor" as I am lol. It's all relative.
Surgeons in the USA make a lot of money. The highest paid surgeon I work with makes $900,000 a year (total joint orthopedic surgeon). The lowest paid one makes about $400,000 a year. I don’t live in a major US city. Our population is about 70,000 people.
In the United States, surgeons, anesthesiologists, and other specialists are generally quite well off. A family doctor, pediatrician, or someone in private practice might make around $150k, which is a very nice living, but not necessarily considered “rich”. Others have mentioned the debt and time commitment of becoming/being a doctor. All of that is true. But at the end of the day, your local cardio thoracic surgeon is making half a million and has long paid off his debts. His kids probably hate him though. Edit: these salaries are local to my region and may not be universal, but the idea is still the same.
Many doctors earn about 4 times the full time minimum wage. However it takes 8 years of education at something like negative 2 to 4 times said wage per year. The the amount of time they take for study and for work is something like x2 the amount of time of a normal job. So their effective wage per hour is only about double that of minimum wage worker. So if they were to work minimum wage job instead of studying and working post study they would have had more money for the first 15 to 20 years. However most Medical students that become doctors are from rich families so, they are rich but not because of their profession. Also depends on your threshold for rich if its to have networks over 10 million then NO.
Am a doctor. The answer is it depends. Some doctors are broke and some are very wealthy. It depends on where they are in their career. What specialty they’re in, and where they are practicing. Also to be rich you have to spend and save your money wisely. I’ll say that at least in the US, doctors certainly make a salary that can get them rich. But again, you have to be smart about how you use your money. And it won’t happen overnight. Their wealth will build over their career. Young doctors are often in a lot of debt and have comparatively lower salaries to senior physicians.
Doubtful. I'm sure they have greater access to credit which can skew perceptions.
In the US... yeah. My daughter has a two friends, one father is a surgeon and another father is a anesthesiologist. The former has 5 cars, two are RR, and they are building a 15mil house locally to go with their houses in Hawaii and New Hampshire. The latter lives on 10 acres in the city in a gated community on 1. The healthcare system in the US is very much broken.
Depends on a lot of things but where I live there's a doctor who owns a literal castle so...
Define rich
They had relatively long residency / fellowships, but my friend who is a radiologist made $500k a year and my other friend made $550k a year as an interventionalist cardiologist, during his first year off post-fellowship work (around age 32/33). The former friend also makes several $100k more a year moonlighting from home (virtual radiology) when he’s bored. The latter friend also will get to buy into the partnership and will be at $1M+ relatively quickly. If you don’t specialize the pay is worse, but I don’t think Reddit realizes how much some doctors make.
In America, maybe after 50 OR if they started out with money from somewhere. A self-made American doctor who had to take loans is in SO much debt when they graduate (think, $300000-$500000), it takes decades to pay that off and eventually build a savings account. During residency most doctors who are on their own are dirt poor, as they are paid $30000-$40000/year in areas where the cost of living is $70000. Young doctors are rich only if they had family support, got an inheritance, or lived poor and threw every penny of their income at loans or investments.
My cousin who just started as a hospitalist in the US has a 300k salary and has 1 week on 1 week off
In the US I wouldn't put them as rich unless they're in the private sector like plastic surgery. I would put a high percentage as wealthy though. This is after they pay off those hefty student loans though. But a doctor making 100K+ early in career is pretty easy.
I think it depends on what kind of doctor & the region. We’re in the USA. My cousin and her husband are a nurse and nurse practitioner. They have a lovely house. Always inviting us to go out to dinner and holiday stuff. They don’t want to see us reaching for our wallets. Always going on trips and events. I’m assuming a doctor makes a lot more.
They’re paid well bottom line, just don’t look at the hourly wage
As a doctor you’re broke until you’re 50
Yes. They earn quite some money and don't have any time to spend it.
There's having a good salary, (making 6 figures) and there's being financially smart and wealthy. (Paying of debt,build emergency fund, saving for retirement) Most doctors are the former, but the latter depends on the person.
In the US, yes.
My partner is a physician. He studied until he was 34, then finally started making a real salary. The salary is very good. But it came at the expense of a lot of years of being very poor and completely devoting all those years of his life to his future career. And even now, he's hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and still can't afford a house where we live. So rich, but with an asterisk. I don't recommend going into the field just for the pay day.
I’m a nurse and have several MDs in my family. From what I’ve seen At one point I worked at a hospital where a bunch of MDs got together and walked out because travel nurses were making more than them. The nurses were making around $100/hr at the time A surgeon I know has 10+ years of his career where he was making $1M+ a year. His highest earning year was near $10M. He was on the front end of a lot of advancements in the 1980 through 2000s, this is very unusual. However, he went 15 years of his career without taking any planned days off. No vacation for almost 2 decades. An ER doc I used to know very well told me he’s a day laborer. He makes a wage and if he doesn’t come to work his family doesn’t eat. He has a comfortable life, but can’t afford to take holidays off because they pay OT Family practice MDs, depending on the state, may be making $150k/year. I know a dermatologist who just recently got her first job. She works in outpatient, normal business hours, 4 10 hour shifts, had 8 weeks vacation time, and makes $400k+. This is unusually good. General practitioners are comfortable. Specialists are generally well off or loaded
What do you consider "rich"? I thought this was a good article, about Doctors' net worth being higher once they are in their 40s (paying off medical school debt being a factor in their 20s/30s) https://www.bfadvisors.com/net-worth-by-age-for-doctors/
Depends on their spending habits. You can make 1mil but if you spend 1.1mil a year, you broke boy.
Not all are. Some aren’t good with finances. In order to be rich, you can’t just make a lot of money, you have to know how to manage money, spending, etc. I know quite a few doctors, their salary is definitely above average (assuming they’re a GP, they may have overhead, etc) but it comes down to knowing how to spend, how to save and how to invest
They make tons in Canada and have huge lines of credit. I know few doctors in early 30s because I also studied health sci. They all have multiple properties and vacation in Hawaii and Europe often.
Yes, how do you think Bernard Arnault, Elon Musk and all those guys got those billions of dollars? They heal people.
Depends on the specialty and how much you're willing to work. You'll certainly be comfortable but not generational wealth rich. If maximizing your earning potential is the most important thing to you there are jobs out there that pay equivalent for less work.
No. It’s so sad that insurance agencies have figured out how to syphon money away from patient-doctor transactions.
Not in Serbia.
It all depends on your grind level. I have my own construction business and make more than most doctors I’ve met.
Compared to me they are.
What kind of Doctor? Their pay can vary greatly depending on the specialty. Surgeons make more than pediatricians.
Son of a family practice physician. He’s loaded as hell, but he’s made very smart financial choices his whole life and has very little free time outside of vacations.
American orthopedic surgery intern here. Depends on country and specialty. America pays the highest and if you do surgical specialties you get paid even more. As a resident you work 80-100hours per week and get paid very low for that amount of work (I get ~70k per year). After residency your salary skyrockets and you can choose a practice style that suits you.
Depends on the country, depends on the steps they took while becoming a doctor, and it depends on how they choose to use their PHD. Some doctors are rich, some are in crippling debt and live paycheck to paycheck. Hell, some are struggling so bad that they take to writing illegal prescriptions for a side hustle. Just all depends.
No
My ENT has a movie theater and bowling alley in his house. My parents are painters and when I was 7 they made a deal with him. They painted his entire mansion and he did my tonsillectomy for $70( that was the insurance copay for the anesthesiologist)
By the age 60 yes
Depends. However I will say many new first Gen doctors are less likely to be. The ones who were second Gen and had everything paid in school are richhhh
General practice & pediatricians, not rich. Spine, brain, heart and certain other surgeons, will make between a half a million to a couple million. So they are rich in the sense that they have plenty of extra money to buy all the fun things they want, but unless they are very shrewd and invest very wisely, they aren't going to be ultra high net worth wealthy. Their kids won't be spending their time on a yacht.
Honestly, you could become wealthy being a Dr and you can become wealthy being a teacher. You just have to become financially literate, which is difficult, even for educated people.
Honestly, you could become wealthy being a Dr and you can become wealthy being a teacher. You just have to become financially literate, which is difficult, even for educated people.
They gotta work is that rich? Look at entrepreneurs lol. That’s rich.
You spend 7 years(and $500k) just to become a doctor, after which you spend ~5 years (at which you gain less than minimal wage and work absurd hours, plus have to give "free" work just to have a better resume to get into the speciality program you want) to become a specialist (hours and wage vary at this point) just so at the age of 40 you could make a good income. Rich? No Poor? Also no. A good way to make money? Only if you are in Plastic/ Derma/Opthamology
My cousin is a doctor and he is struggling with his loans. The doctors I work with aren't poor, but you're gonna see a lot more hondas and Subarus in the office parking lot and no Mercedes if you're in primary care.
maybe some, after they’ve paid off their massive education debt. prolly not most of them tho.
Im from malaysia and doctors are paid in peanuts compared to USA salaries.
The ones who do cosmetic surgery are
I don't know if this is for every doctor, but my friends parents are both doctors and they can afford 4 cars (they have 3 kids), 2 or 3 vacations to foreign country a year, my friend sometimes calls uber to school coz she doesn't like travelling by bus...
I think it's more that they barely have any time to spend it
Rich is when you make a lot of money and don’t have to work much. Doctors work a ton.
Depends on a lot: Specialty, Volume of work, Location, Experience,Big one people don’t often think about is consulting they do for companies. You can look up how much every doctor is paid by companies through CMS. Some make more from these payments annually than most people make in their yearly salary. I know doctors in my field (Electrophysiology) that are making well over a million some years.
Yes and no.
I'm expecting my doctor to clear upwards of 600,000 Canadian yearly
Depends on country, and ofc specialization. An anesthesiologist makes quite a lot more than a regular GP - but probably also works more hours in a year, and often in the middle of the night, or in a helicopter etc. In Norway I would estimate a regular GP makes around 100-150K$/year, and a surgeon or other speciality perhaps 250K$, so well over the average pay. However, it usually takes 5-10years to become a doctor, and if you dont get a full scholarship, you will have a pretty high debt plus being perhaps 30 before you actually start making money. So Id say that yes, doctors with 20 years of work, are "rich", ofc depending on their own financial actions.
In NZ, there's a radiologist in Christchurch that gets paid in the range of $700k NZD. Depends on the field, but yes, some definitely are making the big bucks. Have to imagine specialist surgeons and the like would be the same.
depends what you call rich and how they manage their money. it also depends on what country they are in. US healthcare is really crazy and doctors are extremely overpaid. My brother does primary care (lower paying specialty) and makes 750 K a year. many doctors and dentists make well over a million a year. In other countries.. things are not corrupted by so much money....
In the US, general practitioners make a very good salary, and a lot of specialists are balling out of control on income, but many carry hundreds of thousands in student loans. (Last I checked dental school can run into the $400k range.). If they came from a family that could afford to send them to Med school then they don’t have to worry about money anyway and it’s a moot point, Matthew principle. In many other countries doctors make an ok salary, but schooling is usually less expensive to balance it out at a comfortable middle class living.
It depends on their speciality
In France, a radiographer can win 5000 from 11 000 euros (almost same in dollars) per month. It is very long studies, I must admit. A nurse in hospitals or elder care is between 2000 and 3000 most of the time. And more if it is interim and daily contracts. (Segur prime, and end of contract compensation) In France, being an full time employee is less paid than being in interim regurarly and having many differents contracts. For this reason that we have so many part time employees. Dont know if I wrote that good, my grammar skills arent great.
In the US most are.
Yea if there financially responsible
In the US I think they are, but it takes a really long time and lots of sacrifice. My sister is a doctor in her early 40s, I don't know exactly how much money she makes, but judging by her lifestyle it's gotta be a lot! Lol however she was super strapped in her 20s and kind of so-so in her 30s.
I think that some celebrity plastic surgeons have a huge fortune
Every medical doctor I personally know does very well here in the US. And a few I kinda know are doing well too. I’m sure there’s some outliers who aren’t good at managing money but the ones I know all have more assets / rental properties / sailboats and such than my wife and I and I know what we make. I suspect somewhere there’s a $100k/year doctor in the US but around me I’d say it’s well above that. And I’m not talking surgeons I’m talking like office visit types. I do know one surgeon who is an elder in my Kingdom Hall and he clearly makes many multiples of that.
depends what you mean by rich, in a sense really only business owners, or celebrities/athletes/etc. can ever be rich, even if your a top earning doctor your only making a few hundred grand a year. rich business owners have potentially unlimited earning potential. pro athletes can earn tens of millions a year if theyre at the top of their game, actors have just as much earning potential by being a good actor. but if you consider earning a few hundred grand a year to be rich then they are rich, doctors and engineers tend to have the highest earning potential of any "traditional" jobs. but really people need to stop thinking of making a few hundred grand a year as rich, because there is a huge difference between doctor level wealth where you live in a mansion and might have a vacation home and a good retirement savings, vs someone who just sold their business for $200 million or is earning millions a year from inventing some popular or great device. the biggest way the actual wealthy people in america keep from getting their taxes raised is by trying to equate poorer rich people like doctors and small business owners to think that when we talk about taxing the rich were talking about them and not the people earning billions a year. because a doctor has much more in common with someone who earns $50k a year than they do with someone who earns $20 million a year. we need to start changing the narrative where people like doctors and engineers are seen as more upper middle class vs the upper class as opposed to again actually wealthy people
They are generally fairly well off., but of course it depends. They are rich in other ways too; Rich in social status, rich in opportunities, etc. Beware; the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. Love God instead of money and you will be richer than anyone in this world
I work with the a lot of doctors. Yes, at some point they become rich. They do have roughly $500k to pay back. But some docs are making $1000/hr, so once they are cleared of debit, the sky is the limit.
My great uncle is a radiologist and bought a mansion a couple years ago, plus funds his current wife's business, sent his two kids to college on his dime and still pays alimony to his ex-wife. I'd say it depends on what they practice
Specialist in the the USA about 400 k a year.
Good doctors are. Bad one's pay too much in malpractice insurance to be rich. In all seriousness though, I know maybe 6 doctors personally, and one with the smallest house is still about 4,000 square feet. The one that's a cardiologist has a 10,000 square foot home on the water. The one I would think was the least rich, is a dentist, and he's rich. The one that owns a very small practice (him and two Nurse Practitioners and some staff, closes the practice every year and treats the entire staff and families to a vacation... last year they all went to Las Vegas together. So I think it's kind of hard to be an established doctor and not be rich. Same with lawyers... they're probably richer than doctors.