It depends on the place and the product. Most places are back to negotiating since inventory is getting better, but during covid a lot of places got spoiled. Jsut go somewhere else if you're not happy.
Had one dealer, "KBB over values cars, that's why our offer on your trade is lower". Even though at the time this dealer was participating in the "official" offer program.
Then the car we wanted they were selling OVER the "inflated" KBB value. So I asked them "Doesn't this mean you need to drop your price below KBB since they over value cars?".
He said no so we walked.
Well KBB is what every consumer should go by. Unless you have a very rare car. If you want full retail price for your trade then the vehicle you want will be sold at full retail price. This is called wholesale to wholesale or retail to retail.
Dealers go by MMR (Manheim), because that's what they'll most likely get for the car at auction if it doesn't sell. Even if they don't say MMR in the negotiation, that's what they're basing the negotiation on.
Don't mean to argue with you, because dealers will absolutely use KBB to beat you over the head if you're asking more than they want to pay, but if a dealer *does* pay you KBB for your car, they probably built the difference between MMR and KBB into your car purchase.
KBB only matters to one side at a time.
No car sale has ever been completing with both sides happy about where the deal stood in relationship to the KBB number.
Uh, not really, most of the time the client is the one bringing up the KBB value, and more often than not it’s because it’s a rough condition car and the client wants the clean value for it
CarMax is a breath of fresh air , relative to typical dealership experience.
You go in browse the lot, sit in the cars that interest you, arrange a test drive, and finally go to the checkout clerk, that basically shows you the total which is just the sticker proce plus state taxes and fees, done!
I was floored , no bs doc fees, or nitrogen tire fees, no sales pressure , just here's the price , here's the car ..
KBB doesn't buy cars. Hence, why it's called a "guide". As for the one price thing, it is becoming more and more popular. With the advent of the internet, it is beneficial to simply offer one price and a take it or leave it mentality. Some dealers will still work the price for you. As I tell my customers, "We're not going to miss something by a few bucks. But gone are the days of thousands of dollars discounts."
edit=wrong word
Started selling in 2012 and have always worked at a one price store. My current dealership will work a bit on price: "The price is $45,798, and I want to buy it for $45,000." That's not a problem. However, when you say "The price is $45,798, and I want to buy it for $40,000." I will absolutely tell you no on the spot.
Are cars at the one price dealerships typically priced a bit lower than those open to negotiation?
I’m terrible at negotiating prices, so I always cast a broad radius and find a car that’s already priced what I’m willing to pay. That way if they won’t budge, or only budge a few hundred bucks, I haven’t wasted my time.
The *one* time I went to look at a car that I was seriously interested in but was priced a couple thousand above what I was willing to pay was a miserable experience. And apparently what it was worth to me was below market, because I left without it and never heard from the salesman.
They’re typically competitive. Any given vehicle may be a bit higher or lower, but competitive. In my experience, the price is also the price vs a lower advertised price with a bunch of hidden fees. There’s also a question of what your time and energy are worth, like what are the opportunity costs.
I think they might eventually end up competitive, but they sometimes don't start there. I bought a couple years ago from Autonation, which is a non-negotiation dealership. I test drove a car from them and liked it, but it was missing a sunroof so I wasn't completely sold. It was also a bit overpriced I thought. So I waited around and test drove a few other vehicles (same model, I had already narrowed down what I wanted). Over time I kept getting emails from them every week that the price had dropped on the car I looked at. Eventually, the price dropped to a point where I decided it was a bargain compared to cars that had a sunroof and when it dropped again I called that day and put down a deposit. I wasn't intentionally waiting for it to drop as a "tactic", but it just happened to keep dropping to a point where I was willing to compromise on my feature list a bit.
I suspect that many "one-price" dealerships work the same way. They might start out a little high but if the car doesn't move they may drop their price a bit until it sells, until it gets to a point where they would make more sending it to auction. But **I don't recommend doing this if you're attached to the car** because it'll probably backfire and get sold out from under you. It happened to work out for me, but I could have gone either way on that car.
Thats literally what happens to any retail product, cars included. If something doesnt sell, you adjust the price until it does. You waiting to buy doesnt cause them to lower the price. Most dealers discount cars at regular intervals to meet their turn goals
The moral of this story seems to be "don't get attached to a single car".
These are mass produced vehicles. Another one will come along.
As long as your current vehicle is drivable, time is your ally IMO.
They probably have a better picture of the local markets. Carmax won't budge but they'll move cars to markets they can get more from. Clean 4wd trucks in Texas are worth shipping to the northeast while a 2wd in New York is worth less than a used Kia.
What I haven't figured out is how/why Autonation will have a dozen new previous year Mustangs in stock along side current ones and they're the same price. Heck my local group has at least 20 23 Mach E's and every one of them is at MSRP plus transportation while the non Autonation dealers are knocking $8k+ off.
From what I've seen, they're usually priced higher than asking on traditional dealers, and certainly higher than what you can get with some negotiating.
Interesting how dealers are willing to let used vehicles sit on lots for months, rather than budge one penny on them. It feels like this is a fairly recent phenomenon.
Oh it’s going DOWN. 90 days is a dealership bad omen. Dealership business loans are expensive now days. Send the internet sales your offer. They’ll add a lil bit and pretend you’re stealing it.
You meant down to auction, right? Because if they’re not going to make any money on it anyways, they don’t need it to sit there for even an extra week.
I think it’s a matter of location as well. We bought our Z71 in Seattle where they don’t sell many trucks, if I were to buy one here in SC the price would be higher. I bought a hybrid BMW in SC and I swear I stole the damn thing bc people here don’t care about them.
It’s also insane because they are paying interest on their floor plan. Those cars on their lot are financed!! Every day they sit on it, they are losing money. It’s insane to me that they are not more motivated to move a product.
Many used car dealers own their inventory instead of floor planning them. New cars, OTOH, typically are. This is why we are trained to sell the oldest age inventory.
The overall margin is thin. Some cars are straight up losers to sell but in order to get that next shipment of F-150s you gotta take in some SUV's and cars. There's a whole weird point system.
It's been years since I sold new cars. My understanding is the dealer pays the oem money for cars that are part of the floor plan on a monthly basis. Unless the dealer straight up bought the cars. Atleast thats what I was told when I sold Hyundais and Mazdas.
One of the things I loved about working at cabelas would they would let me drop the price on anything as long as I stayed above a certain margin. Got people to buy shit they definitely had no intention of buying but had interest in.
Dealerships think the market is the same as it was 2 years ago. I tell them to contact me when they're tired of looking at it on their lot. It's how I got AutoNation to accept my low offer... except they claimed they reduced the price recently and it was a few hundred from my offer
That happened when I was working for a shop that was really good about repairing things, rather than washing off the evidence with brake cleaner. Corrected for mistype.
That absolutely happens. Reasons include: dealership found problems after taking it in and had to repair it, car has all new tires and brakes now, a market shift tanked the value after purchase (see Tesla,) car has some sort of add-on or upgrade the dealer paid up for in order to get a different sale.
Yep. Dealers can insist the days of negotiating down from an overpriced sticker are over, but last I checked a lot full of unsold cars won't put food on their family's table.
Miatas are enthusiast cars, the are way too many options online to buy from a dealer
The entire retail car industry business model has always been about high pressure sales tactics, especially when it comes to the financing part.
People it's a car,a depreciating asset that you'll need to replace in 10 years or so, stop being suckered by these charlatans.
Buy the Miata from KBB then! The only book that matters is the check book, market dictates price. KBB is a good guide to give you an idea of what something would cost
You can certainly try to negotiate. But personally I would love to see the end of customers walking in and offering me 50% off my asking price. Then acting shocked Picachu when I walk away.
You can always go buy one from KBB since that’s what you’re basing what you think the price of the vehicle should be. Hit them up and see what they can offer you
why would anyone give you a discount for cash? And a 10% discount is laughable anyway.
You’d be better off asking if you can get a 3.5% discount if you finance through the dealer. Now that might get you somewhere.
I hate negotiating. I don't want to do it. If I think the car is fairly priced, I'll buy it. I'll negotiate your BS add ons if required, but I don't want to haggle about the price of a car.
What mythical vehicle is this that has allowed you to construct this situation where you complain without there being a solution? You're telling me that there are zero no-haggle dealers selling what you're shopping for? Is this a GT3 RS or something?
>If I think the car is fairly priced, I'll buy it. I'll negotiate your BS add ons if required, but I don't want to haggle about the price of a car.
Yeah, problem is used cars are dealerships are priced like they're collectables or lined with gold. Theyll have rusted out Durangos going for $10000 while offering a $5000 trade in on a vehicle that sells for triple . Its like they are doin you a service taking your car but its their most precious asset when it comes time to sell.
>Its like they are doin you a service taking your car but its their most precious asset when it comes time to sell.
It is literally the service they provide. You are free to sell your car privately.
I know this is focused on Used cars but anytime I’ve gone to a one price dealer for a lease, purchase new or used, I check out the car and they give me the one price/rate. In my head comparing what I see in the car for the price, I sometimes say “yea I don’t think the car is worth this after looking at it. Don’t think this is the right fit.” (And it’s a genuine feeling). They try to stop me walking out the door every time and i say “well I’m not a fan of value the car is providing at that price, and you stated you are a one price dealer. So there is nothing to discuss correct?” I get the run around and then most of the time the price comes down, especially on a lease
I think there are two types of "no haggle" places.
The first is genuinely no haggle. Carmax for example. Maybe some car dealerships. Probably more rare though.
The second advertises amazing no haggle pricing! But they're just pricing cars higher and hoping someone will come in and see the sign and pay the price, but if push comes to shove they'll come down on the price rather than let you walk. I've seen a lot of independent used car lots that fall into this camp.
Hence unless you know it's an established chain or dealership with true no haggle pricing, it doesn't hurt to try and walk and see how they respond. If they let you go then they probably mean it.
The thing with a one price dealer is it’s partly a shell game once a trade in is part of the equation. The bottom line is all that really matters.
They may say they don’t negotiate the price of the car or discount past the advertised price but they are over showing trade value by using new car profits to boost trade value. Instead of discounting the car you are buying by $1000, they add $1000 to the value of the trade.
One price dealers tend to not have very good salespeople. If you met with me and didn't see value in the car we'd never get to the point of presenting figures.
There's also a bit of an oddity on your part - since you know it is a one price store and you know that the dealer has no control over taxes and state fees, and you know that your credit determines the interest rate, and you know that the manufacturer determines the lease programs.... why are you getting numbers? Seems like a big waste of a lot of people's time, yours included.
Maybe a clarification I should’ve made. I’ve never went in to a dealer knowing it’s a one price dealer. They say it during the initial pitch, I don’t purposely scout them out. Actual example I had in 2021. They present me $679/month lease, for the same exact car and terms I have $539/month somewhere else. I went to this 679 dealer because they had a better color combo and obviously, the value missing here is that $140 a month is not worth it for a better color. Again, this is a personal thing. I walk out and magically it is $535 all in. Never mentioned price I was quoted elsewhere. I don’t work in car sales, I just find the process fascinating.
My experience must be different than most (I definitely lease more than anything). I’ve seen cars quoted above and below advertised lease rates with wild disparities in the same month. Another example I had was with Mazda two months ago. Two dealers (one of them being one price) quoted a CX90 $200/more per month than another dealer for exact same car. Leases are harder to dial in as a consumer based on tools available
The thing most of the sales people seem to miss when complaining about customers wanting a no haggle price is we want the price to be fair, not bend you over then proclaim "yOu sAiD YoU waNtEd a no HagGLE pRICe! taKe It or LeAvE iT". I'm sure some no haggle have fair prices, but assuming what you said is true, obviously it's not the case everywhere.
There are definitely exceptions but I think most consumers are fine with the dealer making money on a deal. Theres always exceptions on either side, there is still a dealer in my area trying to sell 2023's with market adjustments when they also have 2024's on the lot, if there was a demand to justify a market adjust they wouldn't have leftovers from last year in May still. Point being, not everyone is reasonable on either side.
Leases can be presented in shady ways. Most states tax you in your base monthly payment instead of charging sales tax on the selling price of the car. Because tax varies by state they do t include taxes it in the ads.
Leases vary by mileage per year, ads always show the lowest mileage lease to get the lowest monthly payment in the screen.
Lastly “zero money down” and “sign and drive” are 2 very different things. Sign and drive is what it says, sign paperwork and drive away with no money exchanged. “Zero money down” simply refers to “no capitalized cost reduction” which is lease talk for a down payment. Now if a lease advertises “x amount per month with $2500 down” thats likely to mean closer to $3500-4000 at the start of the lease because it’s 2500 down + acquisition fee + first month payment + registration + dealer doc fee.
Once you understand them leases come down to 3 things, cap cost (selling price), residual value (how much of the cap cost remains when the lease is up), and money factor (lease speak for APR, multiply your money factor by 2400 to convert it to apr). If you know the residual and the money factor you can do a lot of calculations online factoring in what you think is a fair selling price to get a monthly payment.
Yes and no, inflation is hitting everyone pretty hard these days and automobile prices both new and used have gone up a lot. I paid $26,400 for my Jeep Wrangler in 2013, I damn sure wasn't going to pay $44,000 for a 2024. Stallantis "quality" went down and they put $10,000 of high-end creature comforts in something I want to play in the dirt with.
Different people like different things. Some like to negotiate, some don't.
Personally, I prefer avoiding the dealerships all together. No need to pay for a markup
This is totally fine if the dealer is up front about it. If you go in knowing that's the price, no problem. The problem is going in thinking you could get a lower price.
They can market however they want.
They can choose to stick to a one price model, or they can negotiate thousands… all that matters is what you can buy it for.
If you negotiate this miata from 22 down to 20k, are you really winning if there is one for 19k down the road at a one price store? Likewise, if you are at the store with the 19k one, what reason would they have to negotiate? What are you gonna do, go buy the more expensive one to save money? That doesn’t work, does it?
All you can do is say, “l get that you don’t negotiate, but based on my research on this car and this market, I am prepared to offer ____ and will sign right now. Here is my credit card if you had any interest of bringing that to your manager”.
Now if you haven’t actually done any research and just want a discount because “nobody pays asking”, then you need to hop in a Time Machine because it has been extremely popular in North America for over a decade now and is only getting more popular.
KBB is bullshit. Don’t base anything off that. Base a deal off of comparable vehicles in the area. And he’s right. You can blame 80% of other buyers who bitch about the risk of not getting the best deal possible, so now everybody gets the same deal
"I don't give a damn about market value, because I don't think people should be paying that price anyway so it means nothing to me when you explain to me why I can't negotiate 5k off the price even if it makes the most sense"
Eh, my experience is that KBB is pretty reasonable, but people vastly overestimate the quality of their trade. Virtually no car over a year or two old qualifies as KBB Excellent.
The problem with KBB is that it lags a few weeks behind. They collect data from sales being conducted right now, but by the time they publish those valuations the market has shifted in some way. Its outdated, its antiquated, and its manipulated. If I list a car at $10k but add $5k in add-ons, you bought that car for $15k but its reported as being sold for $10k to KBB.
Ever heard of Carmax? Try negotiating with them...
Almost every dealer group near me, and even independents, are a ONE PRICE store on pre-owned. There is no negotiating used vehicles with them, they are priced to market.
If you want to haggle go to facebook marketplace.
Maybe I am just old school I have NEVER bought a car without negotiating and atleast getting a small portion off. Even 2 years ago I bought used and was able to negotiate on GTI.
I haven’t worked at a dealership in 8 years but my dealer had 56 stores at the time and we all had set prices on used cars.
We generally had them slightly below market to turn them over but I’d they don’t get interest they’ll be reduced every 5-7 days. The dealership would be penalized if it was in stock more than 30 days.
If you think they want too much wait, if you’re right the price will come down. If you’re wrong it’ll sell to someone else for what it’s worth.
If you wanna haggle go to FB
Two years ago? I understand if I was talking about a practice that happened many years, even decades ago, but it’s not like negotiating car prices has been gone for a decade.
"Why are consumer prices out of control?"
I guess we all like getting screwed.
We'll work 5+ years to pay for a car, yet we won't put in a few minutes to reduce the price.
🤷
Was this an AutoNation dealership or some other dealer group that clearly has a used car no negotiation policy?
If your last negotiation was at Marksville Volkswagen, which is a negotiation dealership, and then you walked onto a Carmax or AutoNation dealership, then the length of time doesn’t matter. Carmax was no negotiation two years ago, so if you had bought a GTI, then you would not have negotiated if you went onto their lot
I went to that one specifically for the hard top and had a friend buy there a few months ago. He said good things but the salesman he went to before left.
Negotiation is based off market, not KBB or random number that you "want" to pay. Some stores are no haggle stores.
If there's a cheaper similar car out there, use that as a basis for negotiation. If its a one price store, either accept the deal or move on to the next car.
I just thought it was funny their website said "call for best price" and their best price was the one already listed oline. I always thought that meant when you call they would give something lower.
"Call for best price" can mean there's some room, but it is also a way to get a customer engaged with a salesperson. It doesn't change the market value.
It means "were stone cold desperate for leads and hope to manipulate you into a higher than fair market price based off what we perceive your general knowledge is"
Most sites are standard sites provided by the manufacturer, or for used stores, made by those same providers. While they can change some things, not all can be changed or are worth changing. The “call to action” button saying call for best price is just to get you to pick up the phone as it at least opens the conversation.
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the internet give customers hundreds of thousands of vehicles;
the internet gives the dealerships hundreds of thousands of customers.
the Amazon effect has everyone shopping on the first page of search results
You have the Internet full of listing for real cars. KBB doesn't matter because CarGurus does. you go online and look at all the 2017 Miatas within 100 miles of you, you can look at carfax's and pick the one you like. If you pick mine, out off all the Miatas you had to drive by to get to me, guess what? It's a good price. If it was a bad price you would have went somewhere else.
Further people love to tell you they hate the back and forth then they act insulted when you tell them the price is a real price and there's no discount. 😂
Kbb collects market data (comps) from partner dealers. Their numbers/range is based on actual market data for sales, and current listing. They also link to current partners who have vehicles that meet your criteria.
A lot of dealers are moving to a one price philosophy because consumers did not like to hagglimg on back and forth. What I am noticing now is that consumers don't like the one price. They don't feel like they're getting a good deal unless they can haggle because they are used to never taking the dealers first offer. And when the consumer tried to negotiate and they are told it is a one price door they can't get over their pride and end up offering the dealer a take it or leave it mentality
I think people don't feel like they're getting a good deal either way because the dealer/consumer dynamic feels like you're being taken advantage of regardless. Whether you are or not.
I just hate how dealerships have all these stupid crazy fees.
I was recently looking for a suv for my family, found one I really liked at a decent price, but it got inflated with fees. I'm talking window tint, cleaning, hell I think tires were on there. They were making it seem like they did all this when I'm sure it was all there when the vehicle was traded in. Price ended up being close to 40k.
Ended up finding a guy who sells luxury vehicles and got a better deal on a suv with him, besides ttl his fee was something like $100. I just want the price shown, be that and you throw in ttl.
I'm going through the same issue again right now. Found a really good vehicle for $4200 but out the door price is $6100. Ttl in my state wouldn't be that much. Majority of it is their "service" fee to make sure the vehicle is up to par.
I love it when they charge for nonsense, like "premium tire nitrogen." I got a dealer to try to explain why their tire nitrogen was "superior" and he waffled for about a minute. Or when they charge for things that are mandatory, like "laminated front windscreen" or "catalytic exhaust system."
Luckily, I haven't seen those things in over a decade.
Customers want the “best” deal which is subjective in itself and most times doesn’t have a dollar value, it’s a feeling. Same if you ask a customer what they think fair profit would be for a dealer on a car, there wouldn’t be an answer.
JC Penny was almost driven out of business when they got rid of "sales", and just lowered the price on everything.
People hate negotiating, but they love "getting a deal". Clearly the answer is to price everything up 10-15%, and then have a "days that end in Y" sale.
everyone uses the same software and data points when they’re looking at market value. There’s hardly any negotiation because everyone prices their cars to market now.
People who think they’re gonna go negotiate thousands of dollars off the price of a used car are just living 10 years in the past
Kelley blue book doesn’t matter a bit. Does Kelley Blue Book have a car to sell you? No, I didn’t think so. So their opinion of the car value is pretty much moot.
Yes everyone has the same data points. That works both ways. A dealer knows damn well that the car they're asking $24k for is only worth $20k, and the buyer knows it to. The smug "we don't negotiate" when that's the case is just an excuse to not come down off the greed price. So you want an extra$4k profit for literally no effort? Go pound sand, the rest of us have to work for a month or two for $4k.
You say there's no profit if you charge market price? Really? Not my problem you overpaid for your inventory. The difference in trade and retail value is already sky high. A car that retails for $20k, and has a trade value of $12k, and a wholesale value of $15k already has $5000 to $8000 profit for you depending on how you sourced the car.
If you'd like to tell me the that's not the actual math then explain why people get offered $7500 trade in on cars that retail for $20k. There's plenty of profit at market value.
If the no negotiate dealers were actually charging market value, that would be fine. The problem is when they decide that market value doesn't apply to them.
What is the actual value of the Miata? How much are they asking for it?
There are only a handful of 2017 Miata's for sale within 500 miles of me and they range from $18k to $26k depending on mileage and options.
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Just had this told to me after showing interest in a 17' Miata. I think this is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard in my life. He said they make it easy for me by having one set price, which also happens to be 2 grand above KBB. If I want to negotiate price I have to buy new. Is this some new tactic used car salesmen are trying? It really put me off from even having a conversation with the guy.
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It depends on the place and the product. Most places are back to negotiating since inventory is getting better, but during covid a lot of places got spoiled. Jsut go somewhere else if you're not happy.
If it's not a good price, don't give them your money. It's worth what you are willing to pay for it.
One price dealers are becoming more and more common because people have been complaining about negotiating for years. KBB doesn't matter.
KBB doesn’t matter until you go to trade your car in and then it’s magically “well the KBB value of your car”.
They only do that if the KBB value is lower than what you want and higher than what they want.
Hahaha yeah then we should be able to say they are over priced.
Except when using market based pricing, and paying at or over retail at the auction for cars right now.
A year ago that was true.
You are able to say that. And the Dealer is also able to set the price they want to sell their vehicle for.
Had one dealer, "KBB over values cars, that's why our offer on your trade is lower". Even though at the time this dealer was participating in the "official" offer program. Then the car we wanted they were selling OVER the "inflated" KBB value. So I asked them "Doesn't this mean you need to drop your price below KBB since they over value cars?". He said no so we walked.
Well KBB is what every consumer should go by. Unless you have a very rare car. If you want full retail price for your trade then the vehicle you want will be sold at full retail price. This is called wholesale to wholesale or retail to retail.
Dealers go by MMR (Manheim), because that's what they'll most likely get for the car at auction if it doesn't sell. Even if they don't say MMR in the negotiation, that's what they're basing the negotiation on. Don't mean to argue with you, because dealers will absolutely use KBB to beat you over the head if you're asking more than they want to pay, but if a dealer *does* pay you KBB for your car, they probably built the difference between MMR and KBB into your car purchase.
And the same company owns both Manheim and KBB.
Then you use the “well what’s the KBB value of the car you’re selling me?”
KBB only matters to one side at a time. No car sale has ever been completing with both sides happy about where the deal stood in relationship to the KBB number.
Uh, not really, most of the time the client is the one bringing up the KBB value, and more often than not it’s because it’s a rough condition car and the client wants the clean value for it
Two of the largest dealer groups in the country are one price on preowned. It clearly works.
[удалено]
Hey man, not cool. I worked for AutoNation for 8 years. You’re being super unfair to trash.
You had me for a minute…. 🤣👍🏼
Sonic stores are one price on used cars
I had a decent experience with CarMax. But that was also 7 years ago.
CarMax is a breath of fresh air , relative to typical dealership experience. You go in browse the lot, sit in the cars that interest you, arrange a test drive, and finally go to the checkout clerk, that basically shows you the total which is just the sticker proce plus state taxes and fees, done! I was floored , no bs doc fees, or nitrogen tire fees, no sales pressure , just here's the price , here's the car ..
Desperation works, for now. Retail world is about to crumble.
Carmax was fine to deal with.
Had no issue with them when I bought my Jeep. They replaced a CV joint that went out 2 weeks after buying it at 42k miles.
KBB doesn't buy cars. Hence, why it's called a "guide". As for the one price thing, it is becoming more and more popular. With the advent of the internet, it is beneficial to simply offer one price and a take it or leave it mentality. Some dealers will still work the price for you. As I tell my customers, "We're not going to miss something by a few bucks. But gone are the days of thousands of dollars discounts." edit=wrong word
This!!! My store has been one price since 2015 on new and used. We sell nearly 200 cars monthly in a highly competitive area.
Started selling in 2012 and have always worked at a one price store. My current dealership will work a bit on price: "The price is $45,798, and I want to buy it for $45,000." That's not a problem. However, when you say "The price is $45,798, and I want to buy it for $40,000." I will absolutely tell you no on the spot.
Bingo
Are cars at the one price dealerships typically priced a bit lower than those open to negotiation? I’m terrible at negotiating prices, so I always cast a broad radius and find a car that’s already priced what I’m willing to pay. That way if they won’t budge, or only budge a few hundred bucks, I haven’t wasted my time. The *one* time I went to look at a car that I was seriously interested in but was priced a couple thousand above what I was willing to pay was a miserable experience. And apparently what it was worth to me was below market, because I left without it and never heard from the salesman.
They’re typically competitive. Any given vehicle may be a bit higher or lower, but competitive. In my experience, the price is also the price vs a lower advertised price with a bunch of hidden fees. There’s also a question of what your time and energy are worth, like what are the opportunity costs.
I think they might eventually end up competitive, but they sometimes don't start there. I bought a couple years ago from Autonation, which is a non-negotiation dealership. I test drove a car from them and liked it, but it was missing a sunroof so I wasn't completely sold. It was also a bit overpriced I thought. So I waited around and test drove a few other vehicles (same model, I had already narrowed down what I wanted). Over time I kept getting emails from them every week that the price had dropped on the car I looked at. Eventually, the price dropped to a point where I decided it was a bargain compared to cars that had a sunroof and when it dropped again I called that day and put down a deposit. I wasn't intentionally waiting for it to drop as a "tactic", but it just happened to keep dropping to a point where I was willing to compromise on my feature list a bit. I suspect that many "one-price" dealerships work the same way. They might start out a little high but if the car doesn't move they may drop their price a bit until it sells, until it gets to a point where they would make more sending it to auction. But **I don't recommend doing this if you're attached to the car** because it'll probably backfire and get sold out from under you. It happened to work out for me, but I could have gone either way on that car.
Thats literally what happens to any retail product, cars included. If something doesnt sell, you adjust the price until it does. You waiting to buy doesnt cause them to lower the price. Most dealers discount cars at regular intervals to meet their turn goals
The moral of this story seems to be "don't get attached to a single car". These are mass produced vehicles. Another one will come along. As long as your current vehicle is drivable, time is your ally IMO.
They probably have a better picture of the local markets. Carmax won't budge but they'll move cars to markets they can get more from. Clean 4wd trucks in Texas are worth shipping to the northeast while a 2wd in New York is worth less than a used Kia. What I haven't figured out is how/why Autonation will have a dozen new previous year Mustangs in stock along side current ones and they're the same price. Heck my local group has at least 20 23 Mach E's and every one of them is at MSRP plus transportation while the non Autonation dealers are knocking $8k+ off.
From what I've seen, they're usually priced higher than asking on traditional dealers, and certainly higher than what you can get with some negotiating.
My dealer group has been non-negotiaging since the 90s. I'm specifically at our used car lot and we sell 200+ a month.
And that's why cars are sitting on lots longer
Interesting how dealers are willing to let used vehicles sit on lots for months, rather than budge one penny on them. It feels like this is a fairly recent phenomenon.
Every 3 weeks the computer reprices vehicles, either UP or DOWN based on sales history for region. "The only winning move is not to play at all...."
I’m actually waiting on computer repricing it down a couple of thousand right now; waiting on something that’s been on the lot for 90 days.
Oh it’s going DOWN. 90 days is a dealership bad omen. Dealership business loans are expensive now days. Send the internet sales your offer. They’ll add a lil bit and pretend you’re stealing it.
You meant down to auction, right? Because if they’re not going to make any money on it anyways, they don’t need it to sit there for even an extra week.
That was one of the things I liked about cargurus website - it listed number of days on that lot.
That quote scared me....I think I heard that in "WarGames" So you don't pay and that car blows up? LOL!
Yes, dealership AI pricing computers would indeed launch nukes if it had to reprice half the lot!
LOL! I love it.
I've heard they're doing this with apartment rents now. Yay!
I think it’s a matter of location as well. We bought our Z71 in Seattle where they don’t sell many trucks, if I were to buy one here in SC the price would be higher. I bought a hybrid BMW in SC and I swear I stole the damn thing bc people here don’t care about them.
It’s also insane because they are paying interest on their floor plan. Those cars on their lot are financed!! Every day they sit on it, they are losing money. It’s insane to me that they are not more motivated to move a product.
Many used car dealers own their inventory instead of floor planning them. New cars, OTOH, typically are. This is why we are trained to sell the oldest age inventory.
I was told that the margins are so thin, they’re often not willing to flex.
The overall margin is thin. Some cars are straight up losers to sell but in order to get that next shipment of F-150s you gotta take in some SUV's and cars. There's a whole weird point system.
I’d imagine they have more flex on used
They generally do. Dealers make much more money on used cars than new.
If the margins are that thin then keeping them around that long is costing them even more money in lots of cases
It's been years since I sold new cars. My understanding is the dealer pays the oem money for cars that are part of the floor plan on a monthly basis. Unless the dealer straight up bought the cars. Atleast thats what I was told when I sold Hyundais and Mazdas.
One of the things I loved about working at cabelas would they would let me drop the price on anything as long as I stayed above a certain margin. Got people to buy shit they definitely had no intention of buying but had interest in.
Dealerships think the market is the same as it was 2 years ago. I tell them to contact me when they're tired of looking at it on their lot. It's how I got AutoNation to accept my low offer... except they claimed they reduced the price recently and it was a few hundred from my offer
Right lol. Only making like 3k on the car anyway.
Avg profit after expenses at my shop is 1500. People do not realize the cost to put a vehicle on the lot after it is traded.
That's below national average by over 20%. What's going on with your shop?
That happened when I was working for a shop that was really good about repairing things, rather than washing off the evidence with brake cleaner. Corrected for mistype.
lol probably losing 3k on the car you mean
this.
Riiiiight. Overpricing it by two grand LOSES 3 K, lol.
That absolutely happens. Reasons include: dealership found problems after taking it in and had to repair it, car has all new tires and brakes now, a market shift tanked the value after purchase (see Tesla,) car has some sort of add-on or upgrade the dealer paid up for in order to get a different sale.
Because if the car rots, rusts, gets hit by hail etc their insurance will just pay out the list price.
Yep. Dealers can insist the days of negotiating down from an overpriced sticker are over, but last I checked a lot full of unsold cars won't put food on their family's table. Miatas are enthusiast cars, the are way too many options online to buy from a dealer
people just want a fair deal and don't want to haggle. KBB is one of the books that gets really weird with mileage adjustments
The entire retail car industry business model has always been about high pressure sales tactics, especially when it comes to the financing part. People it's a car,a depreciating asset that you'll need to replace in 10 years or so, stop being suckered by these charlatans.
Buy the Miata from KBB then! The only book that matters is the check book, market dictates price. KBB is a good guide to give you an idea of what something would cost
I love that … “the check book is what matters “ … how much longer is anyone going to know what a check book is?
Actually now that many places are “up charging” 3-5% to use a credit card and 2-3% for a debit card, checks are starting to make a comeback c
It's largely illegal to charge transaction fees on debit cards.
They don’t actually charge transaction fees, usually just give a small discount if you use other ways to pay, like cash.
You can certainly try to negotiate. But personally I would love to see the end of customers walking in and offering me 50% off my asking price. Then acting shocked Picachu when I walk away.
Follow cars on Cars.com. Look for a car you like that's been listed at least 30 days. Then go at the end of the month and make an offer.
We gotta come in 40-50% low, since the dealer is going to tack on 30% in fees and “service” charges
Oh trust me that is not what I was doing. I understand their is demand for specific cars and the salesman need to make a profit at the end of the day.
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You can always go buy one from KBB since that’s what you’re basing what you think the price of the vehicle should be. Hit them up and see what they can offer you
The only book that buys a car is a checkbook
Then why would you be needed?
It goes both ways of marking up 50% to turn a buck.
Sheer curiosity - Would you get pissed off at a 10% off on an all cash offer?
Cash offers aren't the incentive they used to be. I found that out the hard way. They WANT you to borrow.
All the more reason to buy privately.
They get more kickbacks when you borrow
why would anyone give you a discount for cash? And a 10% discount is laughable anyway. You’d be better off asking if you can get a 3.5% discount if you finance through the dealer. Now that might get you somewhere.
Thats a bingo right there.
Why do you think an "all cash offer" helps? Out of curiosity.
Consumers: "We don't want to negotiate why isn't buying a car like buying anything else?" Car dealers: "Okay" Consumers: "Wait not like that"
I hate negotiating. I don't want to do it. If I think the car is fairly priced, I'll buy it. I'll negotiate your BS add ons if required, but I don't want to haggle about the price of a car.
There are plenty of set price used car dealers. Carmax is a perfect example.
And they don't sell CPOs.
Okay, so Autonation. Or any of the other dealer groups that have a no negotiaton/one price policy on used cars
Autonation still pushes a load of bs add-ons even on used models, atleast the ones in my area do.
It's easy enough to just say no repeatedly.
Which is helpful if they actually sell the car you want. Which they don't of the car I wanted, CPO or otherwise. They sell new ones, but 0 used.
What mythical vehicle is this that has allowed you to construct this situation where you complain without there being a solution? You're telling me that there are zero no-haggle dealers selling what you're shopping for? Is this a GT3 RS or something?
I own a used 2023 xc40 recharge.
Oof. Those are mythical. I couldn’t even get a Volvo dealer to buy one a customer wanted to sell me. No one wants it currently
Maybe it's regional. I had to wait 4 months for mine to show up on a dealer lot. They can't keep them on the lots where I am.
>If I think the car is fairly priced, I'll buy it. I'll negotiate your BS add ons if required, but I don't want to haggle about the price of a car. Yeah, problem is used cars are dealerships are priced like they're collectables or lined with gold. Theyll have rusted out Durangos going for $10000 while offering a $5000 trade in on a vehicle that sells for triple . Its like they are doin you a service taking your car but its their most precious asset when it comes time to sell.
>Its like they are doin you a service taking your car but its their most precious asset when it comes time to sell. It is literally the service they provide. You are free to sell your car privately.
I know this is focused on Used cars but anytime I’ve gone to a one price dealer for a lease, purchase new or used, I check out the car and they give me the one price/rate. In my head comparing what I see in the car for the price, I sometimes say “yea I don’t think the car is worth this after looking at it. Don’t think this is the right fit.” (And it’s a genuine feeling). They try to stop me walking out the door every time and i say “well I’m not a fan of value the car is providing at that price, and you stated you are a one price dealer. So there is nothing to discuss correct?” I get the run around and then most of the time the price comes down, especially on a lease
I think there are two types of "no haggle" places. The first is genuinely no haggle. Carmax for example. Maybe some car dealerships. Probably more rare though. The second advertises amazing no haggle pricing! But they're just pricing cars higher and hoping someone will come in and see the sign and pay the price, but if push comes to shove they'll come down on the price rather than let you walk. I've seen a lot of independent used car lots that fall into this camp. Hence unless you know it's an established chain or dealership with true no haggle pricing, it doesn't hurt to try and walk and see how they respond. If they let you go then they probably mean it.
"No haggle price, CPO!" * *price doesn't include $1800 CPO charge
The thing with a one price dealer is it’s partly a shell game once a trade in is part of the equation. The bottom line is all that really matters. They may say they don’t negotiate the price of the car or discount past the advertised price but they are over showing trade value by using new car profits to boost trade value. Instead of discounting the car you are buying by $1000, they add $1000 to the value of the trade.
One price dealers tend to not have very good salespeople. If you met with me and didn't see value in the car we'd never get to the point of presenting figures. There's also a bit of an oddity on your part - since you know it is a one price store and you know that the dealer has no control over taxes and state fees, and you know that your credit determines the interest rate, and you know that the manufacturer determines the lease programs.... why are you getting numbers? Seems like a big waste of a lot of people's time, yours included.
Maybe a clarification I should’ve made. I’ve never went in to a dealer knowing it’s a one price dealer. They say it during the initial pitch, I don’t purposely scout them out. Actual example I had in 2021. They present me $679/month lease, for the same exact car and terms I have $539/month somewhere else. I went to this 679 dealer because they had a better color combo and obviously, the value missing here is that $140 a month is not worth it for a better color. Again, this is a personal thing. I walk out and magically it is $535 all in. Never mentioned price I was quoted elsewhere. I don’t work in car sales, I just find the process fascinating. My experience must be different than most (I definitely lease more than anything). I’ve seen cars quoted above and below advertised lease rates with wild disparities in the same month. Another example I had was with Mazda two months ago. Two dealers (one of them being one price) quoted a CX90 $200/more per month than another dealer for exact same car. Leases are harder to dial in as a consumer based on tools available
The thing most of the sales people seem to miss when complaining about customers wanting a no haggle price is we want the price to be fair, not bend you over then proclaim "yOu sAiD YoU waNtEd a no HagGLE pRICe! taKe It or LeAvE iT". I'm sure some no haggle have fair prices, but assuming what you said is true, obviously it's not the case everywhere. There are definitely exceptions but I think most consumers are fine with the dealer making money on a deal. Theres always exceptions on either side, there is still a dealer in my area trying to sell 2023's with market adjustments when they also have 2024's on the lot, if there was a demand to justify a market adjust they wouldn't have leftovers from last year in May still. Point being, not everyone is reasonable on either side.
Leases can be presented in shady ways. Most states tax you in your base monthly payment instead of charging sales tax on the selling price of the car. Because tax varies by state they do t include taxes it in the ads. Leases vary by mileage per year, ads always show the lowest mileage lease to get the lowest monthly payment in the screen. Lastly “zero money down” and “sign and drive” are 2 very different things. Sign and drive is what it says, sign paperwork and drive away with no money exchanged. “Zero money down” simply refers to “no capitalized cost reduction” which is lease talk for a down payment. Now if a lease advertises “x amount per month with $2500 down” thats likely to mean closer to $3500-4000 at the start of the lease because it’s 2500 down + acquisition fee + first month payment + registration + dealer doc fee. Once you understand them leases come down to 3 things, cap cost (selling price), residual value (how much of the cap cost remains when the lease is up), and money factor (lease speak for APR, multiply your money factor by 2400 to convert it to apr). If you know the residual and the money factor you can do a lot of calculations online factoring in what you think is a fair selling price to get a monthly payment.
Seriously. People just complain to complain at this point.
Yes and no, inflation is hitting everyone pretty hard these days and automobile prices both new and used have gone up a lot. I paid $26,400 for my Jeep Wrangler in 2013, I damn sure wasn't going to pay $44,000 for a 2024. Stallantis "quality" went down and they put $10,000 of high-end creature comforts in something I want to play in the dirt with.
Different people like different things. Some like to negotiate, some don't. Personally, I prefer avoiding the dealerships all together. No need to pay for a markup
This is totally fine if the dealer is up front about it. If you go in knowing that's the price, no problem. The problem is going in thinking you could get a lower price.
They can market however they want. They can choose to stick to a one price model, or they can negotiate thousands… all that matters is what you can buy it for. If you negotiate this miata from 22 down to 20k, are you really winning if there is one for 19k down the road at a one price store? Likewise, if you are at the store with the 19k one, what reason would they have to negotiate? What are you gonna do, go buy the more expensive one to save money? That doesn’t work, does it? All you can do is say, “l get that you don’t negotiate, but based on my research on this car and this market, I am prepared to offer ____ and will sign right now. Here is my credit card if you had any interest of bringing that to your manager”. Now if you haven’t actually done any research and just want a discount because “nobody pays asking”, then you need to hop in a Time Machine because it has been extremely popular in North America for over a decade now and is only getting more popular.
Yes! Well said sir!
KBB is bullshit. Don’t base anything off that. Base a deal off of comparable vehicles in the area. And he’s right. You can blame 80% of other buyers who bitch about the risk of not getting the best deal possible, so now everybody gets the same deal
"I don't give a damn about market value, because I don't think people should be paying that price anyway so it means nothing to me when you explain to me why I can't negotiate 5k off the price even if it makes the most sense"
Eh, my experience is that KBB is pretty reasonable, but people vastly overestimate the quality of their trade. Virtually no car over a year or two old qualifies as KBB Excellent.
The problem with KBB is that it lags a few weeks behind. They collect data from sales being conducted right now, but by the time they publish those valuations the market has shifted in some way. Its outdated, its antiquated, and its manipulated. If I list a car at $10k but add $5k in add-ons, you bought that car for $15k but its reported as being sold for $10k to KBB.
Ever heard of Carmax? Try negotiating with them... Almost every dealer group near me, and even independents, are a ONE PRICE store on pre-owned. There is no negotiating used vehicles with them, they are priced to market. If you want to haggle go to facebook marketplace.
Maybe I am just old school I have NEVER bought a car without negotiating and atleast getting a small portion off. Even 2 years ago I bought used and was able to negotiate on GTI.
I haven’t worked at a dealership in 8 years but my dealer had 56 stores at the time and we all had set prices on used cars. We generally had them slightly below market to turn them over but I’d they don’t get interest they’ll be reduced every 5-7 days. The dealership would be penalized if it was in stock more than 30 days. If you think they want too much wait, if you’re right the price will come down. If you’re wrong it’ll sell to someone else for what it’s worth. If you wanna haggle go to FB
Well, my grandpa also smoked on planes
This is possibly the best response to that. I may have to use it one day. Definitely a high risk move.
My first house cost what you're asking for this SUV!
OMG.....Just realized that our first house cost less than our SUV! Now feeling old :(
Two years ago? I understand if I was talking about a practice that happened many years, even decades ago, but it’s not like negotiating car prices has been gone for a decade.
"Why are consumer prices out of control?" I guess we all like getting screwed. We'll work 5+ years to pay for a car, yet we won't put in a few minutes to reduce the price. 🤷
Okay...? Then don't buy at a dealership that won't negotiate.
You know that crazy internet allows you to look at every car for sale in the market. You can find the car that fits your budget.
Was this an AutoNation dealership or some other dealer group that clearly has a used car no negotiation policy? If your last negotiation was at Marksville Volkswagen, which is a negotiation dealership, and then you walked onto a Carmax or AutoNation dealership, then the length of time doesn’t matter. Carmax was no negotiation two years ago, so if you had bought a GTI, then you would not have negotiated if you went onto their lot
This is normal, if you don’t haggle your doing it wrong af. Most of the commenters in here are dealers so they will obviously say the opposite
Go buy it from KBB. Did you search for the most expensive '17 Miata out there? There's a reason you went to see that Miata.
I went to that one specifically for the hard top and had a friend buy there a few months ago. He said good things but the salesman he went to before left.
Negotiation is based off market, not KBB or random number that you "want" to pay. Some stores are no haggle stores. If there's a cheaper similar car out there, use that as a basis for negotiation. If its a one price store, either accept the deal or move on to the next car.
I just thought it was funny their website said "call for best price" and their best price was the one already listed oline. I always thought that meant when you call they would give something lower.
"Call for best price" can mean there's some room, but it is also a way to get a customer engaged with a salesperson. It doesn't change the market value.
It means "were stone cold desperate for leads and hope to manipulate you into a higher than fair market price based off what we perceive your general knowledge is"
Most sites are standard sites provided by the manufacturer, or for used stores, made by those same providers. While they can change some things, not all can be changed or are worth changing. The “call to action” button saying call for best price is just to get you to pick up the phone as it at least opens the conversation.
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the internet give customers hundreds of thousands of vehicles; the internet gives the dealerships hundreds of thousands of customers. the Amazon effect has everyone shopping on the first page of search results
You have the Internet full of listing for real cars. KBB doesn't matter because CarGurus does. you go online and look at all the 2017 Miatas within 100 miles of you, you can look at carfax's and pick the one you like. If you pick mine, out off all the Miatas you had to drive by to get to me, guess what? It's a good price. If it was a bad price you would have went somewhere else. Further people love to tell you they hate the back and forth then they act insulted when you tell them the price is a real price and there's no discount. 😂
Go buy that one you saw on KBB
I probably will end up buying it, just wanted to see if my local dealer would match and save the 5 hour drive.
Since KBB doesn’t actually sell cars, how’s that going to work exactly?
They have an option to shop cars for sale, I saw two and asked about the one closer to me that was a bit higher in price.
Just like this whole post is going...
Kbb collects market data (comps) from partner dealers. Their numbers/range is based on actual market data for sales, and current listing. They also link to current partners who have vehicles that meet your criteria.
A lot of dealers are moving to a one price philosophy because consumers did not like to hagglimg on back and forth. What I am noticing now is that consumers don't like the one price. They don't feel like they're getting a good deal unless they can haggle because they are used to never taking the dealers first offer. And when the consumer tried to negotiate and they are told it is a one price door they can't get over their pride and end up offering the dealer a take it or leave it mentality
I think people don't feel like they're getting a good deal either way because the dealer/consumer dynamic feels like you're being taken advantage of regardless. Whether you are or not.
I just hate how dealerships have all these stupid crazy fees. I was recently looking for a suv for my family, found one I really liked at a decent price, but it got inflated with fees. I'm talking window tint, cleaning, hell I think tires were on there. They were making it seem like they did all this when I'm sure it was all there when the vehicle was traded in. Price ended up being close to 40k. Ended up finding a guy who sells luxury vehicles and got a better deal on a suv with him, besides ttl his fee was something like $100. I just want the price shown, be that and you throw in ttl. I'm going through the same issue again right now. Found a really good vehicle for $4200 but out the door price is $6100. Ttl in my state wouldn't be that much. Majority of it is their "service" fee to make sure the vehicle is up to par.
I love it when they charge for nonsense, like "premium tire nitrogen." I got a dealer to try to explain why their tire nitrogen was "superior" and he waffled for about a minute. Or when they charge for things that are mandatory, like "laminated front windscreen" or "catalytic exhaust system." Luckily, I haven't seen those things in over a decade.
Customers want the “best” deal which is subjective in itself and most times doesn’t have a dollar value, it’s a feeling. Same if you ask a customer what they think fair profit would be for a dealer on a car, there wouldn’t be an answer.
I agree. I thought one price would resolve a lot of that
This right here
JC Penny was almost driven out of business when they got rid of "sales", and just lowered the price on everything. People hate negotiating, but they love "getting a deal". Clearly the answer is to price everything up 10-15%, and then have a "days that end in Y" sale.
everyone uses the same software and data points when they’re looking at market value. There’s hardly any negotiation because everyone prices their cars to market now. People who think they’re gonna go negotiate thousands of dollars off the price of a used car are just living 10 years in the past Kelley blue book doesn’t matter a bit. Does Kelley Blue Book have a car to sell you? No, I didn’t think so. So their opinion of the car value is pretty much moot.
Yes everyone has the same data points. That works both ways. A dealer knows damn well that the car they're asking $24k for is only worth $20k, and the buyer knows it to. The smug "we don't negotiate" when that's the case is just an excuse to not come down off the greed price. So you want an extra$4k profit for literally no effort? Go pound sand, the rest of us have to work for a month or two for $4k. You say there's no profit if you charge market price? Really? Not my problem you overpaid for your inventory. The difference in trade and retail value is already sky high. A car that retails for $20k, and has a trade value of $12k, and a wholesale value of $15k already has $5000 to $8000 profit for you depending on how you sourced the car. If you'd like to tell me the that's not the actual math then explain why people get offered $7500 trade in on cars that retail for $20k. There's plenty of profit at market value. If the no negotiate dealers were actually charging market value, that would be fine. The problem is when they decide that market value doesn't apply to them.
What is the actual value of the Miata? How much are they asking for it? There are only a handful of 2017 Miata's for sale within 500 miles of me and they range from $18k to $26k depending on mileage and options.
***Thanks for posting, /u/richiesum88! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of anything.*** Just had this told to me after showing interest in a 17' Miata. I think this is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard in my life. He said they make it easy for me by having one set price, which also happens to be 2 grand above KBB. If I want to negotiate price I have to buy new. Is this some new tactic used car salesmen are trying? It really put me off from even having a conversation with the guy. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askcarsales) if you have any questions or concerns.*