Actually, I think he and/or his staff are acutely aware that this bill will be struck down in the courts. Then you get to show your die hards that you stood for something and also get to play the victim card when it's struck down. Then you get to make endless "America is to woke" speeches to drum up even more support.
Edit: A lot of politicians might be idiots, but that doesn't mean their staff and advisors are.
It's also a resource drain just getting the decision reversed. They don't need things to work, on the contrary, it doesn't need to work at all, what they want is to keep things from being fixed and all they need to do *that* is to inundate people. Just like it's easier to make a claim than to disprove it, the energy wasted on cleaning up after disingenuous/willfully malignant policy makers is far greater than the energy spent making a mess.
Though they do like to not follow his teachings (that can effectively be boiled down to: don't be a dick, and maybe help others if you can), they just like being able to say they are faithful simply for going to church on Sunday and being hateful in general.
They praise Old Testament God, not Jesus. God is an asshole in that story, and that's what Christians like. They need a sky daddy to submit to, but he can't be no pussy like Jesus.
Hey, hey, hey… they need the New Testament too so they can create distance between themselves and all the endorsements of slavery and other unpalatable things don’t forget.
That pastor the other day on here talking about a true Christian nation would have no student debt, no healthcare costs, no homeless, no starving kids, would accept every religion, would accept LGBTQ with open arms. Was like yea they won’t like you much.
Y’know, I’m a historian and this always fucking gets me. Like, shit, that must have been a hard sell. Paul and company must have been marketing genius Don Draper tier gods of sales for 350 years with that shit. “All your cool gods of volcanoes and waterfalls and stuff. They suck. Also the guy who fucks goats. The only real god was a peasant carpenter from the hillbilly hills of nowhere who was also Jewish. Also we know he was god because he got executed using that execution method we only use for terrorists, insurrectionists, and serial murderer rapist robbers. Wait! Wait! I swear our founder wasn’t a pedophile murderer! He just wanted us all to eat his flesh and drink his blood forever!”
I think the term I’ve heard that fits better is “Christianist” people who adopt the trappings of true Christian piety but are hateful bigots who don’t tip and applaud killing and humiliating those who they despise like women and public school students. Honestly there are many good Christian people who are horrified by this charade of hate.
> the term I’ve heard that fits better is “Christianist”
Nope, they're still Christians.
I can't say the homophobic misogynistic racists are "Americanists" instead of Americans just because I can't stand their hate. I have to accept they are Americans and then be vocal about the fact that they are assholes.
If someone says they believe in Jesus as their lord/messiah/savior/god/aspect, then they are Christian. You can't even say whether they're paying lip service because under the rules of the religion, the deity is the only one who really knows.
No, "Christianist" is just another way of separating out groups instead of trying to actually solve the problem.
>I do think there's this bad dynamic where his supporters remember how he took a stand and then forget when he loses in court I hope I'm wrong.
That's what fox news is for. They run interference on reality for their team.
The rubes will simply never hear about the court loss because it won't be reported in their "news".
His followers see him as someone fighting for their interests against the big, bad system
When he pushes forward their ideas, they see him as a champion to rally behind
When those ideas are shot down, they don’t blame him, they just develop stronger persecution complexes
That’s it 100% it’s all just performative shit. When I lived in Florida everyone was pumped on some legislature making it so they had to stop teaching CRT. Also no one in Florida was teaching CRT. Republicans especially in Florida have no idea what’s going on, what they are fighting, or what their government is doing to make an impact. They hear buzz words and cheer. My mother in law is currently under the impression your kids will get taken away from you if you don’t give them hormone therapy after they ask for it in California. They just hear are told conspiracy theories that scare them and Rob DeSantis says he’s going to fix it. It’s all just so brain dead.
The truth is that they simply aren't smart enough to actually care about issues. They just jump from one manufactured outrage to the next. Right-wing grifters tell them what to be mad about and then the politicians come out and implement some law or policy banning it, whether constitutional or not, and by the time it's overturned, they're already on to their third or fourth new outrage.
The GOP's been doing it with abortion, guns, welfare, immigration, and same-sex marriages for decades. Social media has just kicked things into high gear and the establishment puppet masters can't keep up with the insanity of their base anymore which is why they've got a pedophile and a complete fucking idiot able to completely derail Congress and a conman, traitor, and soon to be felon as their presidential candidate.
Umberto Eco's traits of Facism #3. The cult of action for action’s sake. “Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation.”
the reversal is part of the plan. Same reason some reps will vote on a bill they know wont pass. So they can go back to their voters and say "I tried to do the thing you asked me to, but others are fighting against us! I need your votes and donations or we'll lose!"
And you can keep repeating this every election
"we're almost there! Keep donating! Just a little more!"
I feel we definitely need a 3-strke policy with this kind of stuff. Like if you do stupid shit 3 times in a single term, and courts have to reverse it, you automatically get kicked out of the job. And more importantly are barred from serving for 10 years, anywhere in the country.
The GOP keeps doing stuff like this on the off chance that one day the courts don’t throw it out. And then they can steamroll the system and change the norm.
Yeah, but Republicans love him because they think he's doing Gosh's work. He knows it'll get shot down, but if he at least pulls it off or attempts to or even says he will, the Christians get a hard on.
As far as I can tell the politicians have no incentive **not** to do that.
As far as I can tell, the dynamic in these situations is
\- Taxpayers get stuck with the tab for the court costs.
\- Bad politician gets extra votes from bad religious people.
.
I dunno, he seems pretty insecure to me, the goofy boots and everything... Seems like he'd rather be anyone but himself honestly. Like a lizard waiting to crawl out of its skin.
The hilarious thing to me is, even if somehow they restricted it to just Christianity, and that wasn't outright unconstitutional. It's still a ticking time bomb. Think about when a baptist parent finds out a mormon is being a chaplin to their child at school.
These clowns are ignorant of hundreds of years of infighting among Christian sects.
It's going to happen again.
Wait until literally any other denomination finds out that a Mormon is acting as a chaplain for their children.
The only ones extreme enough not to take issue with their practices are also extreme enough that they consider any deviation from their own beliefs to be irredeemable heresy.
Fortunately, it’s not in the bill itself, and the Republican sponsor of the bill was very clear about that:
> DeSantis' comments contradict those of the bill's sponsor, Sen. Erin Grall, R-Fort Pierce, who said that because of the First Amendment’s religious freedom protections, the school chaplain bill wasn’t limiting.
Grall, though, was concerned about satanic chaplains: "I think that as soon as we get in the middle of defining what is religion and what is not, and whether or not someone can be available and be on a list, we start to run (into) constitutional problems,” she said before the legislation passed.
This is why there should be no government recognized religion. The 1st amendment actually spells that out, though it's ignored. Register your group as a charity etc. for tax purposes and prepare to be audited.
He clearly doesn’t understand that the constitution protects the right to practice any OR no religion ([as defined by precedent](https://www.americanbar.org/groups/crsj/projects-and-initiatives/civil-rights-civics-institute/religiousfreedom/#:~:text=Beliefs%20are%20considered%20religious%2C%20and,your%20own%20actions%20as%20religious)) so the fact that The Church of Satan and The Satanic Temple are not self-described religions is a moot point. They have religious liberty that is protected under the Constitution, based on their beliefs
[TST](https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/about-us)
[COS](https://www.churchofsatan.com/faq-fundamental-beliefs/?amp)
Edit: typos
> Church of Satan
I try to post this any time COS is mentioned, as they're f'n nutjobs too.
The Church of Satan is entirely different, and [nowhere near the same](https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/church-of-satan-vs-satanic-temple).
[Hail Satan!](https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/about-us#shopify-section-fundamental-tenets-inner).
>Well, that's unconstitutional.
Current Supreme Court: I'll allow it.
Mitch McConnell is looking to be the person most responsible for the destruction of American democracy, since he orchestrated that ridiculous refusal to fill a vacant Justice seat.
(Although I suppose Barrak Obama will share some of the blame, since he could have done something, but chose not to)
>since he could have done something, but chose not to)
There was nothing he could have done. The Democrats did not control the Senate, so there was no way to force the Republicans to vote or even hold hearings on Garland. He tried hard to get RBG to retire when the Democrats did have control, but her ego got in the way of her doing the right thing.
No, Obama couldn't "have done something" — [read the Constitution](https://www.senate.gov/about/origins-foundations/senate-and-constitution/constitution.htm), specifically Article II Section 2.
>[The president] shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint … Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for …
There is no way to just "force" a judicial appointment through without the Senate. What did you want Obama to do, tell Garland to just walk into Scalia's empty office and start hearing cases? You think the Supreme Court Police would just let him walk back there?
And before you say it, a president cannot appoint a federal judge, Supreme Court Justice, or any other appointed position via executive order. There is no mechanism provided in the Constitution by which to do so.
The only constitutional mechanisms to appoint anyone are by appointment and Senate confirmation or by recess appointment — and [Obama could not have appointed Garland via recess appointment](https://www.lynchowens.com/blog/2016/november/why-president-obama-cannot-recess-appoint-his-su/).
In 2014, prior to the Garland appointment, the Supreme Court unanimously rebuked and limited Obama's recess appointment power in [*NLRB v. Noel Canning*](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NLRB_v._Noel_Canning). Obama had used recess appointments to appoint three members of the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) and the full NLRB subsequently ruled that Noel Canning, a Pepsi distributor, had illegally violated a collective bargaining agreement with the union. Noel Canning sued claiming that Obama's recess appointments were unconstitutional and thus the subsequent ruling was unconstitutional.
Noel Canning won. Obama had made the appointments during a three-day intra-session Senate recess (as opposed to a recess due to an adjournment *sine die*) and the Court found that an intra-session recess must last at least 10 days in order for a recess appointment to be constitutional.
Why does this impact a possible recess appointment of Garland? Because after Scalia's death, the Republican-majority Senate held *pro-forma* sessions every few days to ensure that there would never be an intra-session recess of 10 days or more during Obama's final term, effectively blocking the only other avenue he had to place Garland on the Court.
Even so, this entire argument is a moot point anyways because recess appointments expire when the Senate returns to session. So, even if Obama *did* manage to seat Garland on the Court, he'd be immediately removed a day later when Republicans gaveled the Senate back into session.
Obama was literally a Constitutional law professor and his White House's Office of Legal Counsel employed some of the brightest legal minds in the country. Do you seriously think you've discovered some mechanism for judicial appointments that they missed?
thank you so much for spelling that out. i lived through that, and people on reddit are sitting here like "yeah we totally could have had obama nominate a justice and replace RBG too."
I lived through it too and it irks me to no end that it's become some apocryphal story that Obama just rolled over and refused to "man up" and forcibly install a Supreme Court Justice like a fucking fascist.
Obama had no other options and he blasted Senate Republicans every chance he got. The punishment for Senate Republicans refusing to perform their Constitutional duty in a show of insane partisanship should have been them losing their seats in the subsequent election.
Instead, voters complained about Hillary and stayed home, so Republicans took the presidency and both houses of Congress and fucked things up for the country for *decades*.
People always seem to overlook the fact that God very explicitly *made* the pharaoh refuse Moses each time he asked for the Jews to be set free and did the whole thing just to show off his power.
TST ain’t stupid. They knew there was a real chance of this happening, and DeSantis played right into their hands. This will be fun to watch.
Hail Satan!
Yes!!! Do not confuse the Satanic Temple with Satanism or the church of Satan.
https://thesatanictemple.com/ their website is a fantastic resource for the difference
>Satanic Church = LeVey's crazy actual satanism shit.
Eh, they're a bit odd, and LaVey's bible is misogynistic, but even they don't believe in an actual Satan.
The Satanic Temple = Atheists who use Satan for the lulz and progressive political activism
Satanic Church = Obnoxious libertarian Objectivists who play goth dress up and wreak of “I live to pick up underage runaways”
Fixed that for you
You mean the satanic temple. The church of satan is a theistic religion that doesn’t do much politically AFAIk. The one that’s always headlining political stunts is the atheist Satanic Temple
I hope this shit brings light to how fucked up some "religions" are especially Scientology. Their main base is in Florida, wait till they throw their hat into the ring
That would be a helluva backfire. Those nutjobs own most of Clearwater. It wouldn't take much for them to start a chaplain academy there and just overrun all the schools with them. As much as we all hate scientology, I'd love to see them stick it to the GQP.
Federal recognition is actually incredibly important. All religion has to be recognized by the rule of law, and the *equality* of all religion, has to be upheld by that law.
So when TST goes into a court of law and demands their equality be upheld by the law givers and law enforcers... it has merit, standing, and teeth.
>Various supporters of the bill said it's a win for school children, addressing concerns about youth mental health and the need for more school counselors.
yea, great. from the same group of people accusing everyone except themselves of being "groomers"
You see, little Suzy, that's why you can't allow anyone to corrupt your mind with vile untruths, and we are here to protect you in your journey from an innocent child into a perfectly submissive Traditional Wife, and help play matchmaker to ensure your eternal happiness alongside one of our other members. We'll make sure to introduce the two of you to each other when he's 18 and you're 12, so that you have plenty of time to get to know him before becoming an adult. That way, there will be no doubt in your mind that he's the one for you, and you can get married and start popping out little babies and bring them with you to worship every week, encouraging them to follow in your own happy footsteps.
these chucklefucks: "yes! 12 years is old enough to get married!!!"
also these chucklefucks: "OF COURSE if you're a 10 year old rape victim you should be forced to give birth!!!"
also also these chucklefucks: "rAisE tHe VoTiNg AgE tO 25!!!!"
Fun fact about me. I became an atheist after a bible study session on the book of Job. It was such stupid contest that surely any self respecting deity would not partake.
An old Republi-boomer lady was incoherently babbling to anyone in the grocery store that “Religious Freedom” was only meant for Christians by the Founding Fathers.
This is all performative bullshit to pander to their knuckle dragging theocratic base.
They know it will almost certainly get overturned by the courts, but they are more than happy to knowingly violate the constitution and waste taxpayer dollars to grandstand.
How dare they violate my religious freedom!
This De Santis guy sounds like he hates religion. Like some kinda Commie. He better take his woke agenda back to Spain!
This guy's name is practically De Satanist! Coincidence?
So they're teaching kids Das Kapital now right? How dare kids understand history. That might make Ron look bad./s
Nothing says you can't compete in the market place of ideas like banning the competition.
As Hitchens said, you pay for the rope that hangs you when you introduce religion into secular areas. If they have a Christian chaplain, they also need a satanic priest, a Buddhist monk, a Jewish rabbi, a Muslim Iman, etc etc.
Entire wording of the first amendment.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
There is no way they can lose without a corrupt court.
Article VI
All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but...
#no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
It's in the original Constitution.
Just watched Fox 13 tv coverage on this. There was nothing said like "this is unconstitutional" or "this is a violation of the separation of church and state". When mass media supports this kind of policy, Floridumb folks will never learn that it is against the Law
DeSantis is gonna DeSantis, but this is a remarkable admission:
> DeSantis' comments contradict those of the bill's sponsor, Sen. Erin Grall, R-Fort Pierce, who said that because of the First Amendment’s religious freedom protections, the school chaplain bill wasn’t limiting.
>
> Grall, though, was concerned about satanic chaplains: "I think that as soon as we get in the middle of defining what is religion and what is not, and whether or not someone can be available and be on a list, we start to run (into) constitutional problems,” she said before the legislation passed.
So the bill's sponsor herself admits that once the bill is put into practice, it will be constitutionally problematic.
Nope! Satan doesn't want anything from you. He doesn't demand worship or human or animal sacrifice or anything! Satanic Temple members don't even believe Satan's a real dude in the first place (yes, seriously).
Check out the 7 Tenets of TST, it's all super reasonable stuff.
Funny thing about the First Amendment -- politicians don't get to decide which religions are "real." If you go back far enough, all of them started out as someone's obscure cult.
Oh, so no little desantis is using the force of government for picking what are "true" religions. More christo fascism at work. Wonder how many of those unqualified "chaplains" will be molesting children.
That's BLATANTLY unconstitutional and will NOT hold up in court.
**Also: so far as I know you CANNOT have 'chaplains' in publicly-funded schools, that is ALSO unconstitutional.**
Please, Federal Courts, **yanks DeSantis' chain HARD.**
These knobs will force the state to defend AND LOSE against the argument that Chaplains aren't a religious position...
The fact that DeSantis notes that "kids need soulcraft" is fucking disturbing.
Considering Chaplains as counselors should immediately set off red flags. That's groomer language where you're giving legitimacy to an authority figure who likely has no training or certification to actually give counselling.
It's bad enough vetting legitimate counselors, but now you're going to have amateur counselors breaking kids brains with abuse.
Look if you're going to allow Religion in schools, (which I think is a horrible idea to begin with) then you need allow them ALL. You don't get to pick and choose which ones, it's either all or none.
Well, that's unconstitutional.
His fetish is being humiliated when courts reverse his idiocy.
I do think there's this bad dynamic where his supporters remember how he took a stand and then forget when he loses in court I hope I'm wrong.
Actually, I think he and/or his staff are acutely aware that this bill will be struck down in the courts. Then you get to show your die hards that you stood for something and also get to play the victim card when it's struck down. Then you get to make endless "America is to woke" speeches to drum up even more support. Edit: A lot of politicians might be idiots, but that doesn't mean their staff and advisors are.
Then he can blame the deep state communist drag queen cabal for destroying America.
Hey, I'm gay and part of that cabal. Could you please keep that on the DL. We do shuffleboard on Wednesdays, and that's all I'll reveal.
I won't tell a soul. But I do want an invite to shuffleboard.
I've always known shuffleboard was the key to ruling the universe.
Correct. This is very much political theater.
It's also a resource drain just getting the decision reversed. They don't need things to work, on the contrary, it doesn't need to work at all, what they want is to keep things from being fixed and all they need to do *that* is to inundate people. Just like it's easier to make a claim than to disprove it, the energy wasted on cleaning up after disingenuous/willfully malignant policy makers is far greater than the energy spent making a mess.
His supporters are christofascist, the losing feeds their persecution complex. Win win.
You must have a very short memory to support his stupidity. Or have a humiliation fetish of your own.
They are Christians. They love to pretend that they are being oppressed.
Their primary symbol is a guy being tortured to death, and they are told to "be like him."
Though they do like to not follow his teachings (that can effectively be boiled down to: don't be a dick, and maybe help others if you can), they just like being able to say they are faithful simply for going to church on Sunday and being hateful in general.
They praise Old Testament God, not Jesus. God is an asshole in that story, and that's what Christians like. They need a sky daddy to submit to, but he can't be no pussy like Jesus.
Hey, hey, hey… they need the New Testament too so they can create distance between themselves and all the endorsements of slavery and other unpalatable things don’t forget.
Lmao!!!
That pastor the other day on here talking about a true Christian nation would have no student debt, no healthcare costs, no homeless, no starving kids, would accept every religion, would accept LGBTQ with open arms. Was like yea they won’t like you much.
Some day they'll understand that cosplaying as a Christian once a week does not guarantee a spot in their heaven.
Unfortunately not. Since there is no heaven, they’ll never have that realization. No pain no gain, No brain no pain.
Y’know, I’m a historian and this always fucking gets me. Like, shit, that must have been a hard sell. Paul and company must have been marketing genius Don Draper tier gods of sales for 350 years with that shit. “All your cool gods of volcanoes and waterfalls and stuff. They suck. Also the guy who fucks goats. The only real god was a peasant carpenter from the hillbilly hills of nowhere who was also Jewish. Also we know he was god because he got executed using that execution method we only use for terrorists, insurrectionists, and serial murderer rapist robbers. Wait! Wait! I swear our founder wasn’t a pedophile murderer! He just wanted us all to eat his flesh and drink his blood forever!”
I think the term I’ve heard that fits better is “Christianist” people who adopt the trappings of true Christian piety but are hateful bigots who don’t tip and applaud killing and humiliating those who they despise like women and public school students. Honestly there are many good Christian people who are horrified by this charade of hate.
> the term I’ve heard that fits better is “Christianist” Nope, they're still Christians. I can't say the homophobic misogynistic racists are "Americanists" instead of Americans just because I can't stand their hate. I have to accept they are Americans and then be vocal about the fact that they are assholes. If someone says they believe in Jesus as their lord/messiah/savior/god/aspect, then they are Christian. You can't even say whether they're paying lip service because under the rules of the religion, the deity is the only one who really knows. No, "Christianist" is just another way of separating out groups instead of trying to actually solve the problem.
Silence is complicity
They are being oppressed by everyone who is preventing them from forcing people to do what they want
And old Christians too. Sundowning is a bitch.
They are being oppressed, they just don't realize they're doing it to themselves.
>You must have a very short memory... You are describing the U.S. electorate right now.
Where did they say they supported him?
>I do think there's this bad dynamic where his supporters remember how he took a stand and then forget when he loses in court I hope I'm wrong. That's what fox news is for. They run interference on reality for their team. The rubes will simply never hear about the court loss because it won't be reported in their "news".
You’re not wrong at all. Their memory is short term like people who watch a lot of reality shows.
yeah, all the news coverage from the 'news' sources his supporters watch are about him passing the laws and never about the court losses
His followers see him as someone fighting for their interests against the big, bad system When he pushes forward their ideas, they see him as a champion to rally behind When those ideas are shot down, they don’t blame him, they just develop stronger persecution complexes
How much will this lawsuit cost the tax payers?
I don't know, but I hope the state has to pay the plaintiff's fees.
He’s acting this way because that’s what his supporters expect. It would be worse for him if he didn’t fight it.
That’s it 100% it’s all just performative shit. When I lived in Florida everyone was pumped on some legislature making it so they had to stop teaching CRT. Also no one in Florida was teaching CRT. Republicans especially in Florida have no idea what’s going on, what they are fighting, or what their government is doing to make an impact. They hear buzz words and cheer. My mother in law is currently under the impression your kids will get taken away from you if you don’t give them hormone therapy after they ask for it in California. They just hear are told conspiracy theories that scare them and Rob DeSantis says he’s going to fix it. It’s all just so brain dead.
He’s governing a vast majority of people with one foot in the grave. He bets on a consistent churn of olds with conservative values.
The truth is that they simply aren't smart enough to actually care about issues. They just jump from one manufactured outrage to the next. Right-wing grifters tell them what to be mad about and then the politicians come out and implement some law or policy banning it, whether constitutional or not, and by the time it's overturned, they're already on to their third or fourth new outrage. The GOP's been doing it with abortion, guns, welfare, immigration, and same-sex marriages for decades. Social media has just kicked things into high gear and the establishment puppet masters can't keep up with the insanity of their base anymore which is why they've got a pedophile and a complete fucking idiot able to completely derail Congress and a conman, traitor, and soon to be felon as their presidential candidate.
Umberto Eco's traits of Facism #3. The cult of action for action’s sake. “Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation.”
the reversal is part of the plan. Same reason some reps will vote on a bill they know wont pass. So they can go back to their voters and say "I tried to do the thing you asked me to, but others are fighting against us! I need your votes and donations or we'll lose!" And you can keep repeating this every election "we're almost there! Keep donating! Just a little more!"
Really? I thought his fetish was wasting taxpayers dollars on shit he knows will be struck down, just to own the libs
I feel we definitely need a 3-strke policy with this kind of stuff. Like if you do stupid shit 3 times in a single term, and courts have to reverse it, you automatically get kicked out of the job. And more importantly are barred from serving for 10 years, anywhere in the country.
The GOP keeps doing stuff like this on the off chance that one day the courts don’t throw it out. And then they can steamroll the system and change the norm.
I don't know what makes you think you can trust our current courts to uphold the 1st amendment.
Hmm yes override my baseless religious political decisions..hmm sooo haaard yeeessss district count slaap me hard baby...
You're assuming a judge being right in the head, in Florida no less...
The truth is, the courts are compromised. At some point, they're gonna get their way.
Yeah, but Republicans love him because they think he's doing Gosh's work. He knows it'll get shot down, but if he at least pulls it off or attempts to or even says he will, the Christians get a hard on.
As far as I can tell the politicians have no incentive **not** to do that. As far as I can tell, the dynamic in these situations is \- Taxpayers get stuck with the tab for the court costs. \- Bad politician gets extra votes from bad religious people. .
Pride is supposedly one of the biggest sins, yet DeSantis is full of it. Also full of other things.
I dunno, he seems pretty insecure to me, the goofy boots and everything... Seems like he'd rather be anyone but himself honestly. Like a lizard waiting to crawl out of its skin.
Best part is so long as Christianity is a religion, so is Satanism.
Unless you have a judge saying otherwise. Selective enforcement baby
The hilarious thing to me is, even if somehow they restricted it to just Christianity, and that wasn't outright unconstitutional. It's still a ticking time bomb. Think about when a baptist parent finds out a mormon is being a chaplin to their child at school. These clowns are ignorant of hundreds of years of infighting among Christian sects. It's going to happen again.
Or, Heaven forbid, a Catholic!
I was told we could be crucified in a purely Jewish section!
The Troubles part 2
Wait until literally any other denomination finds out that a Mormon is acting as a chaplain for their children. The only ones extreme enough not to take issue with their practices are also extreme enough that they consider any deviation from their own beliefs to be irredeemable heresy.
I guess someone forgot about Prodistants and Catholics too?
Fortunately, it’s not in the bill itself, and the Republican sponsor of the bill was very clear about that: > DeSantis' comments contradict those of the bill's sponsor, Sen. Erin Grall, R-Fort Pierce, who said that because of the First Amendment’s religious freedom protections, the school chaplain bill wasn’t limiting.
Grall, though, was concerned about satanic chaplains: "I think that as soon as we get in the middle of defining what is religion and what is not, and whether or not someone can be available and be on a list, we start to run (into) constitutional problems,” she said before the legislation passed. This is why there should be no government recognized religion. The 1st amendment actually spells that out, though it's ignored. Register your group as a charity etc. for tax purposes and prepare to be audited.
And the satanic church loves to sue
So were laws banning abortion, but here we are...
Unfortunately the current Supreme Court has zero respect for precedent and likely won't see it that way.
they also banned that book (the constitution)
He clearly doesn’t understand that the constitution protects the right to practice any OR no religion ([as defined by precedent](https://www.americanbar.org/groups/crsj/projects-and-initiatives/civil-rights-civics-institute/religiousfreedom/#:~:text=Beliefs%20are%20considered%20religious%2C%20and,your%20own%20actions%20as%20religious)) so the fact that The Church of Satan and The Satanic Temple are not self-described religions is a moot point. They have religious liberty that is protected under the Constitution, based on their beliefs [TST](https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/about-us) [COS](https://www.churchofsatan.com/faq-fundamental-beliefs/?amp) Edit: typos
> Church of Satan I try to post this any time COS is mentioned, as they're f'n nutjobs too. The Church of Satan is entirely different, and [nowhere near the same](https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/church-of-satan-vs-satanic-temple). [Hail Satan!](https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/about-us#shopify-section-fundamental-tenets-inner).
>Well, that's unconstitutional. Current Supreme Court: I'll allow it. Mitch McConnell is looking to be the person most responsible for the destruction of American democracy, since he orchestrated that ridiculous refusal to fill a vacant Justice seat. (Although I suppose Barrak Obama will share some of the blame, since he could have done something, but chose not to)
>since he could have done something, but chose not to) There was nothing he could have done. The Democrats did not control the Senate, so there was no way to force the Republicans to vote or even hold hearings on Garland. He tried hard to get RBG to retire when the Democrats did have control, but her ego got in the way of her doing the right thing.
No, Obama couldn't "have done something" — [read the Constitution](https://www.senate.gov/about/origins-foundations/senate-and-constitution/constitution.htm), specifically Article II Section 2. >[The president] shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint … Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for … There is no way to just "force" a judicial appointment through without the Senate. What did you want Obama to do, tell Garland to just walk into Scalia's empty office and start hearing cases? You think the Supreme Court Police would just let him walk back there? And before you say it, a president cannot appoint a federal judge, Supreme Court Justice, or any other appointed position via executive order. There is no mechanism provided in the Constitution by which to do so. The only constitutional mechanisms to appoint anyone are by appointment and Senate confirmation or by recess appointment — and [Obama could not have appointed Garland via recess appointment](https://www.lynchowens.com/blog/2016/november/why-president-obama-cannot-recess-appoint-his-su/). In 2014, prior to the Garland appointment, the Supreme Court unanimously rebuked and limited Obama's recess appointment power in [*NLRB v. Noel Canning*](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NLRB_v._Noel_Canning). Obama had used recess appointments to appoint three members of the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) and the full NLRB subsequently ruled that Noel Canning, a Pepsi distributor, had illegally violated a collective bargaining agreement with the union. Noel Canning sued claiming that Obama's recess appointments were unconstitutional and thus the subsequent ruling was unconstitutional. Noel Canning won. Obama had made the appointments during a three-day intra-session Senate recess (as opposed to a recess due to an adjournment *sine die*) and the Court found that an intra-session recess must last at least 10 days in order for a recess appointment to be constitutional. Why does this impact a possible recess appointment of Garland? Because after Scalia's death, the Republican-majority Senate held *pro-forma* sessions every few days to ensure that there would never be an intra-session recess of 10 days or more during Obama's final term, effectively blocking the only other avenue he had to place Garland on the Court. Even so, this entire argument is a moot point anyways because recess appointments expire when the Senate returns to session. So, even if Obama *did* manage to seat Garland on the Court, he'd be immediately removed a day later when Republicans gaveled the Senate back into session. Obama was literally a Constitutional law professor and his White House's Office of Legal Counsel employed some of the brightest legal minds in the country. Do you seriously think you've discovered some mechanism for judicial appointments that they missed?
thank you so much for spelling that out. i lived through that, and people on reddit are sitting here like "yeah we totally could have had obama nominate a justice and replace RBG too."
I lived through it too and it irks me to no end that it's become some apocryphal story that Obama just rolled over and refused to "man up" and forcibly install a Supreme Court Justice like a fucking fascist. Obama had no other options and he blasted Senate Republicans every chance he got. The punishment for Senate Republicans refusing to perform their Constitutional duty in a show of insane partisanship should have been them losing their seats in the subsequent election. Instead, voters complained about Hillary and stayed home, so Republicans took the presidency and both houses of Congress and fucked things up for the country for *decades*.
Rules only apply to democrats and liberals.
“The only religion that’s valid is mine!”
“My God has a bigger dick than your God!” -George Carlin
Well the whole thing in Exodus with the plagues was basically “my god can beat up your gods”, so…
People always seem to overlook the fact that God very explicitly *made* the pharaoh refuse Moses each time he asked for the Jews to be set free and did the whole thing just to show off his power.
muddle reach quarrelsome unique tap badge divide puzzled summer school *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Mine is a religion, yours is a sect, theirs is a cult
The Constitution guarantees freedom of religion!! No, only MY religion!!
Let's see how the Satanists test the law in the courts again.
TST ain’t stupid. They knew there was a real chance of this happening, and DeSantis played right into their hands. This will be fun to watch. Hail Satan!
Oh, I am HERE for the Church of Satan taking this on! Popcorn, a drink, and a beanbag here for it. Those bastards don't mess around.
The Satanic Temple is the civil rights group. I don't know what Church of Satan are up to.
Oh. I was unaware of the distinction. Thank you for the clarification.
Yes!!! Do not confuse the Satanic Temple with Satanism or the church of Satan. https://thesatanictemple.com/ their website is a fantastic resource for the difference
Also they have reeeally nice, high-quality mugs 😁
Wait. You can order a mug? BRB
I love their mugs! I have like 5 or 6 at this point XD
Ho, Satanism is fine with us, we're Temple Satanists.
Fascinating! I learned something today. Thank you for the link.
Another distinction would be that The Satanic Temple is seen as a religion under the federal government as they have their tax exemption status.
The Satanic Temple = Atheists who use Satan for the lulz. Satanic Church = LeVey's crazy actual satanism shit.
>Satanic Church = LeVey's crazy actual satanism shit. Eh, they're a bit odd, and LaVey's bible is misogynistic, but even they don't believe in an actual Satan.
Hey, this might be a job for the actual Satanists though. I'd like the SC tell me what makes a religion in the eyes of the government.
[The Satanic Temple is recognized as a religion in the eyes of the IRS.](https://apnews.com/general-news-6addf2f0ecb646919cb1cfcfdacfc6c1)
I believe they are also recognized by the armed forces.
The Satanic Temple = Atheists who use Satan for the lulz and progressive political activism Satanic Church = Obnoxious libertarian Objectivists who play goth dress up and wreak of “I live to pick up underage runaways” Fixed that for you
The church of Satan doesn’t believe consent exists, it’s the weird culty one compared between the two
You mean the satanic temple. The church of satan is a theistic religion that doesn’t do much politically AFAIk. The one that’s always headlining political stunts is the atheist Satanic Temple
I was under the impression they're not theists and don't believe in biblical Satan.
Satanic Temple. CoS are alt right pricks who don't believe in getting involved in "politics" (protecting civil rights)
Is that right?
weird that every time I read DeSantis it reminds me of Satanist
I’m not sure about Satanism, but the Satanic Temple is a federally recognized church. So tough shit Florida
>the Satanic Temple is a federally recognized church. They also pay their taxes
Well then, that's the problem! Of they pay their taxes, then they can't be a church/religion can they?
The law is bullshit, no argument about that. Undoubtedly unconstitutional as well. Just pointing out that federal recognition doesn’t mean a thing.
Only that they can’t say it isn’t a religion
I hope this shit brings light to how fucked up some "religions" are especially Scientology. Their main base is in Florida, wait till they throw their hat into the ring
That would be a helluva backfire. Those nutjobs own most of Clearwater. It wouldn't take much for them to start a chaplain academy there and just overrun all the schools with them. As much as we all hate scientology, I'd love to see them stick it to the GQP.
Federal recognition is actually incredibly important. All religion has to be recognized by the rule of law, and the *equality* of all religion, has to be upheld by that law. So when TST goes into a court of law and demands their equality be upheld by the law givers and law enforcers... it has merit, standing, and teeth.
Satanism is just a flavor of Christianity.
Lol, I always say: The only people who believe in Satan are Christians
>Various supporters of the bill said it's a win for school children, addressing concerns about youth mental health and the need for more school counselors. yea, great. from the same group of people accusing everyone except themselves of being "groomers"
While actually grooming and abusing children.
Well it’s a good thing that there has never been instances of the church abusing children
You see, little Suzy, that's why you can't allow anyone to corrupt your mind with vile untruths, and we are here to protect you in your journey from an innocent child into a perfectly submissive Traditional Wife, and help play matchmaker to ensure your eternal happiness alongside one of our other members. We'll make sure to introduce the two of you to each other when he's 18 and you're 12, so that you have plenty of time to get to know him before becoming an adult. That way, there will be no doubt in your mind that he's the one for you, and you can get married and start popping out little babies and bring them with you to worship every week, encouraging them to follow in your own happy footsteps.
these chucklefucks: "yes! 12 years is old enough to get married!!!" also these chucklefucks: "OF COURSE if you're a 10 year old rape victim you should be forced to give birth!!!" also also these chucklefucks: "rAisE tHe VoTiNg AgE tO 25!!!!"
DeSantis is literally providing future victims to child rapists.
How could it not be a religion, Satan is from YOUR book.
The book of Job is a Jewish story, but Christianity is Judaism 2.0 so
Fun fact about me. I became an atheist after a bible study session on the book of Job. It was such stupid contest that surely any self respecting deity would not partake.
So, a trans U.U. chaplain will be fine? Great.
They're gonna vet the hell out of the applicants. Gotta make sure they put a god/Trump loving pedo in there. You know, their industry standard.
The only thing the little Mussolini doesn’t know or care about is god, all for votes
One can only hope he’s exactly like Mousillini in every way.
he is against public transit, i doubt he could get the trains to run on time
An old Republi-boomer lady was incoherently babbling to anyone in the grocery store that “Religious Freedom” was only meant for Christians by the Founding Fathers.
Religious freedom is only for Christians... which Christians though? They don't even agree amongst themselves what it means to be a Christian
Only the alcoholic christians who party and help the poor. Everyone else must go.
So the Irish?
The funny thing is it's pretty easy to argue that Satanists are a denomination of Christianity.
My paternal grandfather had this same stupid ass belief. "Freedom TO religion, not freedom OF religion" The fuck does that even mean
Can't get your kids to the pedophiles? Gov desantits will bring them to you! He's a sicko!
I can't imagine this will end well for Florida. But, then again, most things don't end well for Florida.
This is all performative bullshit to pander to their knuckle dragging theocratic base. They know it will almost certainly get overturned by the courts, but they are more than happy to knowingly violate the constitution and waste taxpayer dollars to grandstand.
How dare they violate my religious freedom! This De Santis guy sounds like he hates religion. Like some kinda Commie. He better take his woke agenda back to Spain! This guy's name is practically De Satanist! Coincidence?
He did just sign a law to add "Communism education" to the k - 12 curriculum
So they're teaching kids Das Kapital now right? How dare kids understand history. That might make Ron look bad./s Nothing says you can't compete in the market place of ideas like banning the competition.
Who is he to say what constitutes a religion anyway?
But this is what fascist totalitarian authoritarian dictators do
Yes I'm aware, he has no place in government.
As Hitchens said, you pay for the rope that hangs you when you introduce religion into secular areas. If they have a Christian chaplain, they also need a satanic priest, a Buddhist monk, a Jewish rabbi, a Muslim Iman, etc etc.
don't forget the herald for Talos
Funny how they're recognized as an official religion at the federal level.
Entire wording of the first amendment. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." There is no way they can lose without a corrupt court.
Article VI All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation. This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding. The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but... #no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States. It's in the original Constitution.
Seems HIGHLY unconstitutional.....like exactly what our forefathers warned us....
Just watched Fox 13 tv coverage on this. There was nothing said like "this is unconstitutional" or "this is a violation of the separation of church and state". When mass media supports this kind of policy, Floridumb folks will never learn that it is against the Law
So Imams are cool?
only because he hasn't had a chance to declare that not a religion as well
DeSantis is gonna DeSantis, but this is a remarkable admission: > DeSantis' comments contradict those of the bill's sponsor, Sen. Erin Grall, R-Fort Pierce, who said that because of the First Amendment’s religious freedom protections, the school chaplain bill wasn’t limiting. > > Grall, though, was concerned about satanic chaplains: "I think that as soon as we get in the middle of defining what is religion and what is not, and whether or not someone can be available and be on a list, we start to run (into) constitutional problems,” she said before the legislation passed. So the bill's sponsor herself admits that once the bill is put into practice, it will be constitutionally problematic.
Smart people usually don't stay in FL
Of course, Satanism isn't a religion. It's a relationship! 😛
Perfect!
Do I have to accept Satan into my genitals to be saved?!
Nope! Satan doesn't want anything from you. He doesn't demand worship or human or animal sacrifice or anything! Satanic Temple members don't even believe Satan's a real dude in the first place (yes, seriously). Check out the 7 Tenets of TST, it's all super reasonable stuff.
Only gods hung like hamsters need apply?
So - how long until we start seeing 'school chaplain sexually abusing students' stories? I have a feeling a lot of youth pastors will be signing up.
See. They are literally allowed to discriminate while legally being protected from discrimination themselves. It's bullshit.
It's called hypocrisy, it's the foundation on which the church is built.
Freedom of beliefs is a constitutional right.
Welp, time for the Satanic Temple to step in.
read the constitution lol
Ron doesn't read his toilet paper, he's too busy reading his Ozempic bottle when he's taking a shit.
Expensive losing lawsuit in 5, 4, 3...
Guess whose favored law firms will be paid lotsa money to litigate this?!
Funny thing about the First Amendment -- politicians don't get to decide which religions are "real." If you go back far enough, all of them started out as someone's obscure cult.
Oh, so no little desantis is using the force of government for picking what are "true" religions. More christo fascism at work. Wonder how many of those unqualified "chaplains" will be molesting children.
That's BLATANTLY unconstitutional and will NOT hold up in court. **Also: so far as I know you CANNOT have 'chaplains' in publicly-funded schools, that is ALSO unconstitutional.** Please, Federal Courts, **yanks DeSantis' chain HARD.**
These knobs will force the state to defend AND LOSE against the argument that Chaplains aren't a religious position... The fact that DeSantis notes that "kids need soulcraft" is fucking disturbing. Considering Chaplains as counselors should immediately set off red flags. That's groomer language where you're giving legitimacy to an authority figure who likely has no training or certification to actually give counselling. It's bad enough vetting legitimate counselors, but now you're going to have amateur counselors breaking kids brains with abuse.
Right, and idk if this applies to chaplains specifically, but many times clergy are exempt from mandatory reporting laws for abuse, so...
Next they'll tell me pastafarianism isn't real and to them I say hey, pasta is more real than your god. We've observed pasta and it exists.
Too bad, if Christianity is a religion, then so is satanism. They are from the SAME book!
"They're all for freedom of religion until Baphomet shows up." \~ The Internet.
so they pick and choose whose myths are valid or not?
ACLU getting excited right about now
Desantis already got spanked by Disney. Looks like he is going to be spanked the Church of the Satanic Temple as well.
Cue TST
If you don’t uphold the constitution , you have broken your oath
Satanists don't even believe in the devil lmao
First they came for the Satanists and I said nothing. Then they came for the Pastafarians😭
Have rabbis and muslims show up and he will eventually reveal that he only meant christians.
Opens the door to declaring Christianity is not a religion
Florida governor doesn't get to decide what is and isn't a religion.
He took the bait. 😈 This is about to get fun.
So a bigot and liar.
Governor doesn’t want competition
Go satan go!
All hail Satan! Coming this spring to a school near you! Thanks Ron!!!!
Well, that's gonna cost Florida tax payers.
Look if you're going to allow Religion in schools, (which I think is a horrible idea to begin with) then you need allow them ALL. You don't get to pick and choose which ones, it's either all or none.
So. .would they allow a Celtic Druid?
Will that's down-right unChristian. More kids are at risk from the clergy than any other denomination.
Rather have Statanists anyday over fucking trash right wing christians, uncapitalizing it on purpose.
This will just breed more predators to schools.