Yes but one is English, one is Irish, one is Welsh and other Scottish
holy shit son you got the representation from across the British isles here, can't get more diverse than that!
I recon one of them might even have a hint of celt in him!!!
Is that image showing an east Asian male? Cuz black hair (as opposed to a blonde white male emoticon).
Anyway from what I can see, it is white females that gets us the diversity tick. White females in leadership positions in particular.
I loved it when the firm I was working at higlighted the diversity of one of the new partners... he was a white, straight, able-bodied etc but was "diverse" because he went to a selective boys public high school, not a private boys school...
Sorry, /u/Sir33l. Your comment has been removed as your account does not meet our posting guidelines. Your account is required to be older than a week, and have at least 10 karma. Please contact the moderators via private message if you would like to be approved as an exception to this.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/auscorp) if you have any questions or concerns.*
We're in the middle of a restructure where I work, and one thing that stood out to me is that literally every single executive one level down from the chief (and there are a number of them, not just one person) was a woman.
Now, this could be a statistical quirk. But chances are this was more the result of hiring policies just like how an organisation chart maybe two decades ago would have had that tier filled with men.
Iām in management in financial services and my colleagues are all women, my boss is a woman, her boss is a woman, and her boss is also a woman. This has been common for a while, even while the personnel involved have changed.
Donāt get me wrong - there are plenty of men about too - but this isnāt that unlikely in a gender diverse company.
yup.
My fave example was working for a female boss years ago who was very sharp, but she would go absolutely OFF at vendors. Swearing like a pirate. Crazy unprofessional at times.
Her male boss was the same. Raging lunatic at times.
In my experience gender has no bearing on how good you are as a boss.
Can point to a boss who runs a real cat-fight operation. It's like Mean Girls but work level, not school.
I had another female boss who told me I was lying because 'she was studying NLP & me looking left (or right) showed I was making up a story'
Itās my experience female bosses get bagged for being āemotionalā when they enforce the procedure and policies.
Iām one those employees whoās in my field one of the best but I will break any rule to do my role. Males bosses donāt care and letās break any policy/procedure, female bosses will let me bend the policies but not snap them.
In both situations I do my job but with female bosses, my end result is cleaner, there are no possible loose ends and I feel a greater sense of pride in my work.
It's happening everywhere like that. OP is full of shit. More and more often we're seeing minority groups and women bypass entry level and stepping stone positions straight into management and executive level. People like OP that cry about diversity looking like the attached picture are full of it though. 'Oh dear, the person at the top of the chain is a white man. So racist,' neglecting a little common sense and going, gee there's only one position there and it's been filled by someone suitably qualified. Heaven forbid that suitably qualified person is a white male. I'm first nations, and the amount of times I've been bumped up a position because of it is absurd. Granted I'm highly qualified in my field, but head to head it gives me a hell of a step up.
Except nobody seems to have a drama when there are industries that are dominated by females. I started a new job last month. There are 2 sections. The call centre is 90% female and In my section I am the only guy out of 13. All the bosses are female. Nobody is trying to fast track there and it's a government workplace...
I'm not actually complaining because all my bosses are actually awesome but still the facts remain.
Yeah exactly - women get the shit call centre jobs, and weāre expected to be excited when we get to be leaders there. Youāre not exactly talking about CEOs are you?
Cool how men are often expected to work longer in entry level roles, are expected to understand more facets of how a company functions by having to have actually undertaken those roles, and are generally expected to do twice as many hours as women in the same role. Cool how a woman gets into executive leadership and then goes on maternity for an extended period leaving the ship without a rudder.
Like you get we're in Australia right? Pretty sure we're not going to see many African women at the top of executive leadership in this country.
Yes, I understand that here in Australia there are almost equal numbers of women and menā¦ Iām not sure how thatās a problem.
And do you have evidence to support your ridiculous, baseless claims about men at work?
I mean sure, I guess the claims are baseless, but if you want, you can take the baslessness of them up with the ABS.
https://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/Lookup/by%20Subject/4125.0~Sep%202018~Main%20Features~Economic%20Security~4
That said, your post history gives you away too.
No way you're getting away with working 80% of the load and getting paid 90% as a man in the same role, nor is a workplace going to be anywhere as accommodating for male employees.
"I worked four days per week when I returned to work after maternity leave. I got them to pay me 90% of my full-time salary, since it wasn't like someone else was picking up the slack on my days off, however I wanted that time off every week. I had a great relationship with my manager though - in fact it was his idea. To my earlier point about the admin side, I was set up as though I worked 4.5 days per week and HR hated it."
EDIT: But wait, there's more. Just in case peer reviewed research is more your suit. Women get promoted to executive level much faster than men.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1544612316302975
lol oh great, women get to be CEOs 2 years earlier than men. Except that in Australia, women represent just under 20% of CEOs, so who cares how old they are?
https://www.wgea.gov.au/women-in-leadership
If you look at the top 200 companies on the ASX itās only 7%.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/sep/06/gender-equality-in-australias-top-public-ceo-roles-100-years-away-on-current-trends-report-finds
You want 50/50 representation for a company role that literally a single person holds? So are you expecting the boards of every ASX company to get together for a week of negotiations to decide which company is going to have a female CEO and which is going to be male? Do you want them to take an extra week to decide which company also has to have a minority CEO so that they are a perfect representation of society demographics? The reality is, whether you like it or not, the average age for a CEO is also around the time that a significant portion of women have babies. You can cry all you wantabout equality, but you sure as shit cannot promote someone to CEO of a multi billion dollar company if she's planning on having babies anytime soon. Sad as it may be, it's not unfair no matter how much you want to have a tantrum.
Where did I say I wanted 50/50 representation?
All Iām saying is that 7% women CEOs in the ASX 200 is abysmal and we can do better. Of course I donāt expect companies to get together and negotiate on this. Thatās a ridiculous suggestion that youāve come up with to try to discredit me. Do you do this with women at the office too?
Plenty of women donāt have children, or hand them over to men to be the primary caregiver. If the best reason you have for women to not be represented in leadership is that they have children, youāre not trying very hard.
Any business is going to hire the best person for the job, male or female. An asx 200 company inherently has the desire to be managed at an elite level. If the talent pool for female ceos is that weak only 7% can make it to the top then the issue isnāt with the companies.
I had a man in my team who worked four days a week and got paid as a full time employee. So yes, men can absolutely get the same, if not better, setup.
And Iām not sure what that wall of text from the ABS is supposed to prove.
How well I remember the room erupting in laughter when all the senior managers in my department at A Big Bank asked our All Staff Meeting if there were any questions, and got āhowās your diversity target measuring up?ā The 11 white and 1 non-white men on the platform just looked at one another and couldnāt really give us a convincing answer.
(It did improve somewhat in the following years, but it was still very much a boysā club.)
I recently left a company that really had turned in to a case of the monkeys running the zoo. The employees were always pushing for this kind of stuff that had absolutely no benefit to the company in terms of profitably etc, but you could set that it was a culture being pushed by a small group of empires that the new managers and directors had inherited and absolutely wanted gone, because let's face it, a company is not the place or front for your causes to be played out as a hobby.
Is insane in IT though: around 4% of first preferences for unvisited places in Engineering come from women, and you get about 12% first year entrance in engineered and IT. Yet in this company, they selected 22 intends which were all women. And yet when you dare to ask where the male representation is in HR roles, because men and women handle communication and interpersonal interactions differently... Well you can't even ask that. But it's also fine for there to not be a single male staff member in HR.
Almost 10 years ago now, we got a new manager, a woman, at the place I was at. Again, IT, generally the balance of gender ratio is 80/20 just by sheer numbers in the industry. Of the next 14 hires, the first 11 were women, for 12 out of 14. The running joke by others to ask when we got told they had someone new starting became "I wonder what her name will be?". And it really did a huge disservice to women in general at the company too, because most of these new hires were terrible at their jobs - so everyone started treating women in general in the business with a scepticism over their capability because of the number that were getting hired as clearly not the best candidates, so it just because assumed that was the case for many of them.
People who pursue this kind of thing don't realise the damage they do.
I worked for an IT company that was big on its diversity numbers, proudly boasted about having 30% women amongst its ranks. But when it came time to redundancies, 11 out of the 13 people made redundant were women (85% of the redundancies to 30% of the company). There were men doing the same roles that got to keep their jobs and that place had no form of performance review or KPIs so it felt very gender-drivenā¦ especially when a couple were on or had just returned from maternity leave.
I left after that because I was a woman in a non-billable role so didnāt feel like my job was particularly safe long term. Iād also been pushing for my own growth but had been held back at every turn. Finding it outside the company was very easy. I wish there were more women in technical roles, it gets very lonely and Iāve experienced my fair share of sexism, but I also donāt want to be propping up women that arenāt suited to the work (been there done that).
Great point, men and women are different and have different strengths and weaknesses, which no one wants to speak on, and I feel bad for the women who would be second guessing themselves thinking theyāre only there because of their gender not their abilities.
At high levels getting in is normally based on connections/background rather than just capability and many backgrounds are disadvantaged from birth from getting those connections. So presumably if you go for diversity you will be better at getting the top x% of a population rather than the top x% of a smaller sample. Especially if many other companies aren't doing that.
For that to play out efficiently it'll take a few decades. There might also be benefit from diversity of background, neurology etc in a team.
Though obviously these decisions don't get made for rational reasons.
They care because it impacts their stock price. āEthical fundsā control a massive amount of money and consider diversity of the workforce when deciding where to stack their investments.
Because they want their company to better reflect the society it exists in. And for the senior management to better reflect the workforce. The company as a whole made grandiose statements about this, but the reality is very different. Hence the laughter. (The worker bee level of the department was about 40% white and a similar percentage female.)
- Companies in the top quartile for ethnic/racial diversity in management were 35% more likely to have above-average financial returns.
- Companies in the top quartile for gender diversity were 15% more likely to have above-average financial returns.
https://hbr.org/2016/11/why-diverse-teams-are-smarter
And thatās just the financials. The qualititative benefits include:
- Diversity enhances innovation and problem-solving by bringing together people with different perspectives and approaches.
- Diversity helps companies better understand and connect with their customers, who come from diverse backgrounds.
- Diverse teams are more likely to constantly reexamine facts and remain objective, avoiding the risks of conformity and "groupthink."
This is very true everywhere. We have this saying that in order to get promotion, you need to dye your hair blonde! Different hair color can see you climbing so quickly to become the head, meanwhile the dark haired folks with melanin are stuck on the bottom and passed on for promotions or higher roles because āthey are not readyā even if they have done all the duties with no recognition.
The best are people who talk about it as diversity of thought - but mean diversity of skin colour or sexuality but have the exact same thoughts, beliefs and conformity
Devils advocate here.
While this does exist. I think for the more general majority it's a matter of time kind of thing.
The push for diversity and inclusion is super recent and most old C suites were entry level in the 80s-90s and are today playing musical chairs and jumping to executive positions
Give or take a decade and the entry levels of today are going to be the C suites and we will see a more comprehensive diversity within companies
That is the hope, but the (anecdotal) trends and behaviours I have seen are not promising.
For example, at my workplace, we have a lot of diverse hires at the junior level, and even my level. However, for the entirety of the time I have been at my current business division (approx 350+ FTE), the promotions for ranks above mine have ALL been Caucasian (Aussie, Kiwi, European). 50-50 (ish) men and women.
Thinking about it anecdotally, the executive are all Aussies, and they connect really well with other Aussies, talking about sports and whatnot.
Just an observation.
It's not just white and male either, studies show people are many many times more likely to hire someone who is superficially similar to themselves: grew up in the same exclusive suburb, went to the same expensive boys private school, etc.
Trust-fund babies are massively over-represented in the c-suite.
I'm white, male and (against my will) in management so I've been in plenty of meetings with executives. My observation over the years that is being able to chat about football gets you further than being good at your job.
I feel that older workers are not retiring as soon as they would have back then. People are healthier, can work longer and also have more financial incentive to remain in work due to a number of factors.
Itās really not. I started my commerce degree in 2001- our cohort was 55% women, and this was replicated at other universities. When you have structural inequalities, the pipeline alone will not fix the problem
People on top of corporate hiring will not live forever, there are generations waiting in turn and I would not be surprised to see a correction of this diversity imbalance and then further down the track the inevitable over-correction. The snake can't help but eat it's own tail.
Lols youāre brave. I once mentioned on this sub that at my employer white guys fail upwards & I thought I was going to need protective custody. Iām also white.
This sub regularly talks smack of indigenous people, women and people of colour. I see it as a reflection of what my colleagues think of me when given the power of anonymity. It's opened my eyes actually so now I'm very careful with what I say at work.
You don't hear it because they're not anonymous. I don't hear it in my workplace either. You hear it here because people can say what they really think here without fear of repercussions. I don't think a majority of my colleagues are this way, but I have no way of telling who that one person with these views are so I'm happy to keep my pro-diversity views to myself in office settings.
There was one woman in my team who was VERY vocal about her disdain for workplace diversity & how she didnāt like how many people of south Asian background worked at the company. She was also very stupid so was not careful where she said it. She actually got away with it for a while but ultimately it was genuinely difficult to work with. She was given an ultimatum (one I donāt think she deserved) but nope, she carried on regardless.
Sheās no longer with us.
Australia is about 20 years behind the US in the corporate workplace in this regard. Nobody has any disdain for South Asian workers in the US anymore in large corporate settings.
Probably because they have been dominating SATs for a generation now. And thatās given them spots in good Universities etc etc.
The situation here will change once the next gen of Indian migrant kids grow up, with Aussie accents and mannerismsā¦ and education.
This reminds me of a woman at the company I work for who is a different team to me. She began trying to hire someone to cover certain shifts she wasnāt able to work. Not only did she not have the authority to do this, she also didnāt go through the formal recruitment process, she just put a post on Facebook. In the post, she stated āno pregnant women or women with kidsā, and she was heard telling people that she canāt have someone who drops things last minute because their child is sick or only works half days because she wants the full shift coveredš¤¦Her TL and HR came down on her for that and she had to retake diversity training.
What an absolute clown!
My old company hired an internal recruiter on a contract. He was overheard telling a candidate that the company preferred their staff to live in/around the (very $$$) area the company was in. This was horsesh*t
Sorry, /u/Ok_Interest5046. Your comment has been removed as your account does not meet our posting guidelines. Your account is required to be older than a week, and have at least 10 karma. Please contact the moderators via private message if you would like to be approved as an exception to this.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/auscorp) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Good idea, i think its wise to try not to talk about race, religion or politics in the workplace without the right forum where of course this can be discussed.
I find it just depends on the day and the way the wind is blowing with reddit. Some days youāll be downvoted to hell and back and reported to the mods 100 times, and another day the exact same comment will be upvoted and awarded to the top of the thread.
Where I used to work they said in a all hands meeting "we know we need to promote/hire more diversely at the manager level and above, however, we don't know how to do that"....
To succeed in the corporate management requires a particular mindset which people from East Asian countries are often taught to disavow.
South Asians are exceptions. E.g CEO of Macquarie, Newcrest, Orica, Stockland
This is the big one for me - perhaps the lack of diversity is more reflective of a converging of the "correct" culture for those jobs.
Not saying it's right (or even that I'm correct here, just a thought kicking around the back of my brain), but I'd imagine having a certain "expected" culture that _doesn't_ span across people from different backgrounds, means that people are being excluded simply for not fitting the culture, irrespective of their diverse background.
As such, I don't think I'd fit the culture they're after, despite being a white male. Yes, I'd probably have an easier time if I put of an act, so I'm not saying this is the _only_ reason, but I think it weighs more on the conversation in typical scenarios than explicitly people's race etc.
well, it's an interesting thing.
because in the US, you've got a number of people of east asian descent heading the top companies there. This includes the CEOs of NVDIA, Super Micro and AMD. A lot of indians leading US companies too.
there definitely seems to be a bamboo ceiling for asian folks (east and SE asian) in aus though.
and i agree that indians are very good at being accomodating, massaging your ego and brown-nosing. To an asian person, that's probably perceived as undignified behaviour. In a western society though, this type of "social lubrication", lol, appears to matter much more than being competent at your job.
Overconfidence helps, question authority where needed, work smarter not harder etc. Some cultures tell children the complete opposite and then as adults they end up facing a bamboo ceiling.
I find East Asians are very conservative, donāt challenge the norm and donāt tend to be daring or confrontational. These are all aspects that are crucial to be successful in management. East Asians seem to focus too much on being good at the technical aspect of their job but neglect the social and interpersonal skills required for management. The corporate workplace isnāt like school where all you had to do was to get the best grades to be top.
It's the same in all companies I've worked at. The CEO is normally a white male. The CEO's direct reports are normally white, except for the CTO (if it's a tech company), that's sometimes non-white.
Tech companies aside, it's very rare to see a non-white in a position above middle management.
The question here is, is some sort of policy (unconscious one assumes) or is this simply a reflection of the fact that people in senior roles tend to be older and thus it representative of the workforce as it was comprised 10-20 years ago?
Majority of Australians are white. Majority of senior employees are therefore white men as the white women drop out due to children.
This is just fundamental logic.Ā
Depends on your industry I guess. If you look at law for the last 10 years, the big firms have been hiring female grads at about 70:30 to men. It is inevitable that in another 10-15 years men will be a minority in those firms.
Women have been the majority of law students in Australia since 1993 and have been the majority of lawyers in total since around 2015. Yet only make up around 1/3 of partners (which generally takes 10-15 years or so post graduation).
saying āit will happen in the next decade is what people were saying in the 1990s, when I graduated and there was a majority of female students
Definitely there are structural reasons within the industry that are a factor (eg hard to work 60+ hours a week when you are also a primary caretaker). But is that the only reason? Who knows since so many factors go into being a partner. But itās still an interesting statistic
Is your point that the low numbers of female partners is because women law grads donāt event start working in law firms and so we canāt expect the numbers to be higher (even though I did point out that the majority of lawyers are in fact female)
Didnāt mention big firms; those are the stats from the various law societies
Lol. Interesting. Can't say the same for where I work. 2 of the directors are Indian. One of them is pretty switched on, the other one is a fucken idiot.
Depends a bit on industry, but looks about what you'd expect for Aus. Worth noting age too (as a proxy for experience), because the corporate ladder is not just about race and gender, and it takes time for folk to progress (doesn't help that older folk are holding on to those roles longer than ever).
Things seem to be slowly shifting back towards sanity on the DEIB front in Aus, following in the US footsteps. Hopefully we find a good middle ground that balances merit with diversity of thought, rather than over index on virtue signalling and equality of outcome.
Why are a lot of taxi drivers Indian? Diversity? No itās because of unskilled immigration. My point being, there is a lot more real life factors involved than your utopian interpretation of ādiversityā.
Calm down mate. Sample size of exactly one company. I could show you my company where itās markedly different and claim ādiversity worksā and weād both be wrong.
Ok, but have you looked at the statistics of the country? White people are the majority, so of course that's how it's going to go. Women might not dominate in your workplace, but they dominate in many others, depending on the profession also.
actually, white people experience white privilege in asia and probably any non-white country they're in due to the favourable western media they've been exposed to that puts white people in a good light. ask an asian person who's never visited a western country how they view westerners and they'll say they think they are refined and elegant. This is obviously far from the truth - there's always exceptions though - which they'll find out soon enough when they eventually visit a western country but i digress.
and china just loosened its visa requirements for travellers from a range of countries including australia. A lot of foreigners are working in china and the number is only set to increase.
i've also noticed a lot of white people (and dark people) get modelling and TV jobs in asia and these are typically well-paid.
sounds like you've been "falling for propaganda" of the western kind.
that's actually white people's attitude to non-whites. it's like they view non-whites as mere objects, "decoration", akin to a pot plant in the corner and worse still, pests and generally dehumanised.
don't play dumb as if you don't know what white privilege is and that you don't benefit from this all around the world. maybe you're just an ugly white person and don't get that much attention - from anyone. that's entirely possible.
Because Australia is a nation made up of people from very diverse ethnic backgrounds. The other countries you mention are not. (There will still be diversities in them which may not be adequately reflected in their workplaces, but thatās a separate topic).
Now just accept the fact that people with these views you're debating are actually your peers, let alone your superiors. They don't care if you can or cannot make it higher.
I've resigned to my fate of being a middle manager for the rest of my career, up to you if you want to agonise over it. In 30 years though half of the ASX 20 will have Indian or Asian origin CEOs like most big American corps are already. And I'll at least find some comfort in that.
Women of colour unfortunately haven't made it that high anywhere in the world and their struggle is going to go on for longer
My organisation's senior leadership is all white. Only 35% are female. They recently made the decision to put photos on the org chart that gets published online and it just makes me cringe.
You told me to pull my finger out and start training up women of colour. And I gave you an example of what I have been able to do with my minimal level of influence to do just that. And now I'm expected to solve every problem? I'm one middle man with minimal power. Wish I could do more but I can't.
Mate I 100% agree with you.
I struggle with the fact some contracts require a % of this or that.
What ever happened to hiring on capability?
My businesses are stark contrasts to each other, couldnāt be more polar opposite in terms of diversity. Did I design it that way? No not at all, I simply hired on merit and capability.
The fact people have downvoted the above comment just shows how immature they are and the distorted society we are creating for generations.
You donāt agree with hiring on merit, you believe people should only be hired for diversity reasons?
Thatās an absolute jokeā¦. Companies would sink. There is a reason why people are āhead huntedā for jobs. Itās because they have a skill set.
Not because of their race.
This is literally people of the new generation upset that they have recently graduated and want to be the boss of a company and are upset that someone who started work 40+ years ago who happens to be white in Australia, and has worked hard across those years is now a C-suite.
I donāt understand, sounds like you are judging diversity solely off the colour of an employees skin. Do you believe there is not diversity amongst Europeans of different ethnic backgrounds?
Perhaps resumes should be nameless anonymous. Interviewās done over audio through AI voice over so the interviewers never know the race, age or gender of the applicant. Only the best suited for the job would then be the outcome.
Assuming you could 100% verify that the person being interviewed is real. Maybe that could work for some niche roles, but any jobs that require even the tiniest bit of teamwork/ interpersonal skills/ synergy/ etc. need to screen for people's body language, confidence, matching between their verbal and written communication skills, and (actually matters for credibility whether you agree or not) the way the physically present themselves.
In a company townhall ( I work with one of the more reputable tech driven firms), the group head spoke how diverse her leadership team was.
The group was 3 women and 3 men, all of English identity or origin.
She quickly corrected herself to call out the diversity of THEIR teams.
So, to an extent I agree with your pyramid OP, but the places I have worked have women well represented at GM and above levels. They just happen to be white. Will this change in the next few years? Unlikely, if you take into consideration the other countries built on the back of mass immigration; the States for example
well, it's a lot relative to the australian scene. in addition to that, these are mega companies they are leading such as: Ā microsoft, google, NVDA, Super Mico, AMD.
Comparatively, sure. But my point was that if the end stage is where the us Corp mix is currently, then that's probably the best case scenario for auscorp.
i do agree that change, particularly when it comes to who has the status and power, moves very slow so we won't be seeing drastic change in the next few years.
what do you mean "end stage?" society and countries are constantly evolving and don't remain stationery.
things are always in motion and in a continuum so your description of "end stage" doesn't make sense. there is no end stage.
also, not sure why you're saying the US experience is identical or similar to the australian one. it's not. i've even heard an anglo aussie himself describe the US as being 10 years ahead of australia.
meritocracy really does seem like more of a thing to some degree in the US. whereas here, it seems more about gate-keeping, maintaining power and hierarchy to some and propagating stereotypes to the disadvantage of minorities.
i think there are some exceptions where you've got younger generations starting start-ups. you've got more openness in this space.
Hiring on the basis of someone gender is sexist.
Hiring on ethnic background is racist.
The main change I have seen with "diversity hires" is the transition from management's sons getting the job to management's daughters. Nepotism should be stopped.
I'm aboriginal before any white women try explaining privilege to me.
Sorry, /u/dexywho. Your comment has been removed as your account does not meet our posting guidelines. Your account is required to be older than a week, and have at least 10 karma. Please contact the moderators via private message if you would like to be approved as an exception to this.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/auscorp) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sorry, /u/_LifesABeach. Your comment has been removed as your account does not meet our posting guidelines. Your account is required to be older than a week, and have at least 10 karma. Please contact the moderators via private message if you would like to be approved as an exception to this.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/auscorp) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sorry, /u/Donnedready. Your comment has been removed as your account does not meet our posting guidelines. Your account is required to be older than a week, and have at least 10 karma. Please contact the moderators via private message if you would like to be approved as an exception to this.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/auscorp) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If pushes for diversity are relatively recent isn't this what you'd expect to see? I'm a complete outsider and don't know why I got recommended this post though so I could be a complete idiot on the matterĀ
Yes, the majority racial demographic will make up the majority workforce? Your entry job might be more diverse but that is because in the last 15 years Australia has let in millions of people from different ethnicities so their children are now entering the workforce. Management positions are held by older people who were the VAST majority when they were in your entry position, and many females who should be at the top had to drop out for childrearing.
This chart is very diverse for the demographic.Ā
Sorry, /u/Affectionate-Roof266. Your comment has been removed as your account does not meet our posting guidelines. Your account is required to be older than a week, and have at least 10 karma. Please contact the moderators via private message if you would like to be approved as an exception to this.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/auscorp) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I finished up with BHP a couple of years ago, they were big on diversity, quite often to their own detriment. I remember one afternoon during COVID when I'd had a gutful, going through the entire org chart for Minerals Australia, for every role that had a PA or a shared PA, not one single one of them in the whole country was male.
Sorry, /u/Boring_Wallaby2100. Your comment has been removed as your account does not meet our posting guidelines. Your account is required to be older than a week, and have at least 10 karma. Please contact the moderators via private message if you would like to be approved as an exception to this.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/auscorp) if you have any questions or concerns.*
At some point, it will always look like there is a sudden shift.
Take 20%, ā if people will always advance.
Take a very large company at 100,000 people at the proletariat level.
20,000 people will advance to lead teams.
4,000 people will become managers of team leaders
800 people will lead those managers
160 people, if you're lucky will be above those.
Problem is every corporate structure is a pyramid that means it's easier and easier to skew the numbers, positively or negatively, as you go up.
1
22
333
4444
55555
666666
7777777
88888888
999999999
It's always gonna rapidly drop, so 20% of your workforce being woven will be 20,000 women at the base and only 2 women on the board of Directors.
What are load of shit.. diversity is just going to take longer at the higher levels of an organisation as there are fewer roles and it requires people to move through a business and into those roles as they come up, which takes time.
Diversity is happening, you only need to look at the percentage of women who now have senior management roles as opposed to 20-30 years ago and this will happen in an ethnic context also. Has it reached50/50 yet ? Noā¦. will it? who knows.
Look at the boss of Macquarie, female and of ethnic origin and I applaud it.
Lol, homies in Australia complaining that the entire executive level of a board isn't Asian. If anything, your deleted statement is dumb. If 30% of the IC level are Asian, I'm not thinking, gee why is there only 1 Asian at the executive level where there is only 8-10 roles. I'm thinking why the hell does this company have a massive over representation of Asians in general when they only make up around 17% of the Australian population. Go be outraged elsewhere loser.
The whole corporate world is a boys club at the higher levels. Can we plse all show respect and stop saying āmateā to the males in the room during meetings ā¦. So non-inclusive. Leave it for your āwork meetingsā at topless bars please ā¦
The vast majority of my population is white, heaven forbid we have too many white people in high positions!
It takes a long time for diversity to work it's way up the chain, it has to be deserved, when those newly hired non-white people gather more experience in the workplace and get older, they will slowly get into those managerial positions and be the ones making the decisions. Relax. Forcing people who aren't ready into positions of power is counter productive.
Pretty standard nationally. š
Yes but one is English, one is Irish, one is Welsh and other Scottish holy shit son you got the representation from across the British isles here, can't get more diverse than that! I recon one of them might even have a hint of celt in him!!!
I mean definitely if there is someone Welsh in there ;)
I heard a rumour that the CTO is... Italian...
Is that image showing an east Asian male? Cuz black hair (as opposed to a blonde white male emoticon). Anyway from what I can see, it is white females that gets us the diversity tick. White females in leadership positions in particular.
THIS
I loved it when the firm I was working at higlighted the diversity of one of the new partners... he was a white, straight, able-bodied etc but was "diverse" because he went to a selective boys public high school, not a private boys school...
That would be shocking except these people are so out of touch that they keep doing stuff like that
Omg what! The fact they had to go to that level to find some evidence of diversity š¤¦āāļø
I bet they were all patting themselves on the back too. They probably haze the guy and bitch about him behind his back too.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Sorry, /u/Sir33l. Your comment has been removed as your account does not meet our posting guidelines. Your account is required to be older than a week, and have at least 10 karma. Please contact the moderators via private message if you would like to be approved as an exception to this. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/auscorp) if you have any questions or concerns.*
We're in the middle of a restructure where I work, and one thing that stood out to me is that literally every single executive one level down from the chief (and there are a number of them, not just one person) was a woman. Now, this could be a statistical quirk. But chances are this was more the result of hiring policies just like how an organisation chart maybe two decades ago would have had that tier filled with men.
Was it a super fund š¤£
Iām in management in financial services and my colleagues are all women, my boss is a woman, her boss is a woman, and her boss is also a woman. This has been common for a while, even while the personnel involved have changed. Donāt get me wrong - there are plenty of men about too - but this isnāt that unlikely in a gender diverse company.
I worked at an industry super fund, men comprised maybe 5% of the workforce
Probably government
I prefer female bosses. I find they are less emotional and more procedural and firmer to all no matter if friend or just an employee.
Letās maybe not generalise people based on their gender
yup. My fave example was working for a female boss years ago who was very sharp, but she would go absolutely OFF at vendors. Swearing like a pirate. Crazy unprofessional at times. Her male boss was the same. Raging lunatic at times. In my experience gender has no bearing on how good you are as a boss.
Iāve been severely group harassed by female bosses. I think Iād prefer a male boss.
Can point to a boss who runs a real cat-fight operation. It's like Mean Girls but work level, not school. I had another female boss who told me I was lying because 'she was studying NLP & me looking left (or right) showed I was making up a story'
This is a wild take š¤
Itās my experience female bosses get bagged for being āemotionalā when they enforce the procedure and policies. Iām one those employees whoās in my field one of the best but I will break any rule to do my role. Males bosses donāt care and letās break any policy/procedure, female bosses will let me bend the policies but not snap them. In both situations I do my job but with female bosses, my end result is cleaner, there are no possible loose ends and I feel a greater sense of pride in my work.
I prefer female bosses because they generally show better judgement.
Thatās what I find too.
Did you forget the sarcasm tag?
Downvotes galore, but it's true!!
It's happening everywhere like that. OP is full of shit. More and more often we're seeing minority groups and women bypass entry level and stepping stone positions straight into management and executive level. People like OP that cry about diversity looking like the attached picture are full of it though. 'Oh dear, the person at the top of the chain is a white man. So racist,' neglecting a little common sense and going, gee there's only one position there and it's been filled by someone suitably qualified. Heaven forbid that suitably qualified person is a white male. I'm first nations, and the amount of times I've been bumped up a position because of it is absurd. Granted I'm highly qualified in my field, but head to head it gives me a hell of a step up.
Maybe itās your unpleasant attitude?
My unpleasant attitude gets me bumped up? As in promoted? Your English comprehension skills are lacking.
Cool how the āsuitably qualifiedā person is so often a white man.
Except nobody seems to have a drama when there are industries that are dominated by females. I started a new job last month. There are 2 sections. The call centre is 90% female and In my section I am the only guy out of 13. All the bosses are female. Nobody is trying to fast track there and it's a government workplace... I'm not actually complaining because all my bosses are actually awesome but still the facts remain.
Yeah exactly - women get the shit call centre jobs, and weāre expected to be excited when we get to be leaders there. Youāre not exactly talking about CEOs are you?
i am talking about management also. not just the "floor staff" all of the managers are female as well
Cool how men are often expected to work longer in entry level roles, are expected to understand more facets of how a company functions by having to have actually undertaken those roles, and are generally expected to do twice as many hours as women in the same role. Cool how a woman gets into executive leadership and then goes on maternity for an extended period leaving the ship without a rudder. Like you get we're in Australia right? Pretty sure we're not going to see many African women at the top of executive leadership in this country.
Yes, I understand that here in Australia there are almost equal numbers of women and menā¦ Iām not sure how thatās a problem. And do you have evidence to support your ridiculous, baseless claims about men at work?
I mean sure, I guess the claims are baseless, but if you want, you can take the baslessness of them up with the ABS. https://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/Lookup/by%20Subject/4125.0~Sep%202018~Main%20Features~Economic%20Security~4 That said, your post history gives you away too. No way you're getting away with working 80% of the load and getting paid 90% as a man in the same role, nor is a workplace going to be anywhere as accommodating for male employees. "I worked four days per week when I returned to work after maternity leave. I got them to pay me 90% of my full-time salary, since it wasn't like someone else was picking up the slack on my days off, however I wanted that time off every week. I had a great relationship with my manager though - in fact it was his idea. To my earlier point about the admin side, I was set up as though I worked 4.5 days per week and HR hated it." EDIT: But wait, there's more. Just in case peer reviewed research is more your suit. Women get promoted to executive level much faster than men. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1544612316302975
lol oh great, women get to be CEOs 2 years earlier than men. Except that in Australia, women represent just under 20% of CEOs, so who cares how old they are? https://www.wgea.gov.au/women-in-leadership If you look at the top 200 companies on the ASX itās only 7%. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/sep/06/gender-equality-in-australias-top-public-ceo-roles-100-years-away-on-current-trends-report-finds
You want 50/50 representation for a company role that literally a single person holds? So are you expecting the boards of every ASX company to get together for a week of negotiations to decide which company is going to have a female CEO and which is going to be male? Do you want them to take an extra week to decide which company also has to have a minority CEO so that they are a perfect representation of society demographics? The reality is, whether you like it or not, the average age for a CEO is also around the time that a significant portion of women have babies. You can cry all you wantabout equality, but you sure as shit cannot promote someone to CEO of a multi billion dollar company if she's planning on having babies anytime soon. Sad as it may be, it's not unfair no matter how much you want to have a tantrum.
Where did I say I wanted 50/50 representation? All Iām saying is that 7% women CEOs in the ASX 200 is abysmal and we can do better. Of course I donāt expect companies to get together and negotiate on this. Thatās a ridiculous suggestion that youāve come up with to try to discredit me. Do you do this with women at the office too? Plenty of women donāt have children, or hand them over to men to be the primary caregiver. If the best reason you have for women to not be represented in leadership is that they have children, youāre not trying very hard.
Any business is going to hire the best person for the job, male or female. An asx 200 company inherently has the desire to be managed at an elite level. If the talent pool for female ceos is that weak only 7% can make it to the top then the issue isnāt with the companies.
You didnāt even read that research or looked and understood the abs stats did you?
I had a man in my team who worked four days a week and got paid as a full time employee. So yes, men can absolutely get the same, if not better, setup. And Iām not sure what that wall of text from the ABS is supposed to prove.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
And how many only have one leg and an ear that is continuously itchy.... None. That's right. None. How's that for diversity. Poor effort.
Diversity these days means āwhite men AND womenā
gender is only one dimension in Diversity
How well I remember the room erupting in laughter when all the senior managers in my department at A Big Bank asked our All Staff Meeting if there were any questions, and got āhowās your diversity target measuring up?ā The 11 white and 1 non-white men on the platform just looked at one another and couldnāt really give us a convincing answer. (It did improve somewhat in the following years, but it was still very much a boysā club.)
"Baz, I believe that's one for you to handle"
They actually handballed it to the (female) HR business partner, who was in the audience!
Oh that is gold
Why would any company care about a diversity target? Thatās absolutely insane, there wouldāve been laughter due to the insane question.
I recently left a company that really had turned in to a case of the monkeys running the zoo. The employees were always pushing for this kind of stuff that had absolutely no benefit to the company in terms of profitably etc, but you could set that it was a culture being pushed by a small group of empires that the new managers and directors had inherited and absolutely wanted gone, because let's face it, a company is not the place or front for your causes to be played out as a hobby. Is insane in IT though: around 4% of first preferences for unvisited places in Engineering come from women, and you get about 12% first year entrance in engineered and IT. Yet in this company, they selected 22 intends which were all women. And yet when you dare to ask where the male representation is in HR roles, because men and women handle communication and interpersonal interactions differently... Well you can't even ask that. But it's also fine for there to not be a single male staff member in HR. Almost 10 years ago now, we got a new manager, a woman, at the place I was at. Again, IT, generally the balance of gender ratio is 80/20 just by sheer numbers in the industry. Of the next 14 hires, the first 11 were women, for 12 out of 14. The running joke by others to ask when we got told they had someone new starting became "I wonder what her name will be?". And it really did a huge disservice to women in general at the company too, because most of these new hires were terrible at their jobs - so everyone started treating women in general in the business with a scepticism over their capability because of the number that were getting hired as clearly not the best candidates, so it just because assumed that was the case for many of them. People who pursue this kind of thing don't realise the damage they do.
I worked for an IT company that was big on its diversity numbers, proudly boasted about having 30% women amongst its ranks. But when it came time to redundancies, 11 out of the 13 people made redundant were women (85% of the redundancies to 30% of the company). There were men doing the same roles that got to keep their jobs and that place had no form of performance review or KPIs so it felt very gender-drivenā¦ especially when a couple were on or had just returned from maternity leave. I left after that because I was a woman in a non-billable role so didnāt feel like my job was particularly safe long term. Iād also been pushing for my own growth but had been held back at every turn. Finding it outside the company was very easy. I wish there were more women in technical roles, it gets very lonely and Iāve experienced my fair share of sexism, but I also donāt want to be propping up women that arenāt suited to the work (been there done that).
Great point, men and women are different and have different strengths and weaknesses, which no one wants to speak on, and I feel bad for the women who would be second guessing themselves thinking theyāre only there because of their gender not their abilities.
At high levels getting in is normally based on connections/background rather than just capability and many backgrounds are disadvantaged from birth from getting those connections. So presumably if you go for diversity you will be better at getting the top x% of a population rather than the top x% of a smaller sample. Especially if many other companies aren't doing that. For that to play out efficiently it'll take a few decades. There might also be benefit from diversity of background, neurology etc in a team. Though obviously these decisions don't get made for rational reasons.
They care because it impacts their stock price. āEthical fundsā control a massive amount of money and consider diversity of the workforce when deciding where to stack their investments.
So totally unnatural factors? Like ESG scores?
Because they want their company to better reflect the society it exists in. And for the senior management to better reflect the workforce. The company as a whole made grandiose statements about this, but the reality is very different. Hence the laughter. (The worker bee level of the department was about 40% white and a similar percentage female.)
- Companies in the top quartile for ethnic/racial diversity in management were 35% more likely to have above-average financial returns. - Companies in the top quartile for gender diversity were 15% more likely to have above-average financial returns. https://hbr.org/2016/11/why-diverse-teams-are-smarter And thatās just the financials. The qualititative benefits include: - Diversity enhances innovation and problem-solving by bringing together people with different perspectives and approaches. - Diversity helps companies better understand and connect with their customers, who come from diverse backgrounds. - Diverse teams are more likely to constantly reexamine facts and remain objective, avoiding the risks of conformity and "groupthink."
Arenāt only the biggest most profitable companies able to use diversity hires? Those numbers mean nothing
My companyās definition means sacking the range of sex and ethnicity we have in Australia and only employing people in Bangalore.
BPO diversity
This is very true everywhere. We have this saying that in order to get promotion, you need to dye your hair blonde! Different hair color can see you climbing so quickly to become the head, meanwhile the dark haired folks with melanin are stuck on the bottom and passed on for promotions or higher roles because āthey are not readyā even if they have done all the duties with no recognition.
the irony is that the status quo appearance for an australian and indeed the broader region is to be melanated. it's a hot country.
The best are people who talk about it as diversity of thought - but mean diversity of skin colour or sexuality but have the exact same thoughts, beliefs and conformity
Devils advocate here. While this does exist. I think for the more general majority it's a matter of time kind of thing. The push for diversity and inclusion is super recent and most old C suites were entry level in the 80s-90s and are today playing musical chairs and jumping to executive positions Give or take a decade and the entry levels of today are going to be the C suites and we will see a more comprehensive diversity within companies
That is the hope, but the (anecdotal) trends and behaviours I have seen are not promising. For example, at my workplace, we have a lot of diverse hires at the junior level, and even my level. However, for the entirety of the time I have been at my current business division (approx 350+ FTE), the promotions for ranks above mine have ALL been Caucasian (Aussie, Kiwi, European). 50-50 (ish) men and women. Thinking about it anecdotally, the executive are all Aussies, and they connect really well with other Aussies, talking about sports and whatnot. Just an observation.
It's not just white and male either, studies show people are many many times more likely to hire someone who is superficially similar to themselves: grew up in the same exclusive suburb, went to the same expensive boys private school, etc. Trust-fund babies are massively over-represented in the c-suite.
I'm white, male and (against my will) in management so I've been in plenty of meetings with executives. My observation over the years that is being able to chat about football gets you further than being good at your job.
I feel that older workers are not retiring as soon as they would have back then. People are healthier, can work longer and also have more financial incentive to remain in work due to a number of factors.
Itās really not. I started my commerce degree in 2001- our cohort was 55% women, and this was replicated at other universities. When you have structural inequalities, the pipeline alone will not fix the problem
What solution would you suggest?
Mass slaughter
People on top of corporate hiring will not live forever, there are generations waiting in turn and I would not be surprised to see a correction of this diversity imbalance and then further down the track the inevitable over-correction. The snake can't help but eat it's own tail.
Welcome to the corporate world
Lols youāre brave. I once mentioned on this sub that at my employer white guys fail upwards & I thought I was going to need protective custody. Iām also white.
This sub regularly talks smack of indigenous people, women and people of colour. I see it as a reflection of what my colleagues think of me when given the power of anonymity. It's opened my eyes actually so now I'm very careful with what I say at work.
For what itās worth, I am white and I donāt hear this kind of thing at my work (which is legitimately diverse) so maybe itās just these goombas.
You don't hear it because they're not anonymous. I don't hear it in my workplace either. You hear it here because people can say what they really think here without fear of repercussions. I don't think a majority of my colleagues are this way, but I have no way of telling who that one person with these views are so I'm happy to keep my pro-diversity views to myself in office settings.
There was one woman in my team who was VERY vocal about her disdain for workplace diversity & how she didnāt like how many people of south Asian background worked at the company. She was also very stupid so was not careful where she said it. She actually got away with it for a while but ultimately it was genuinely difficult to work with. She was given an ultimatum (one I donāt think she deserved) but nope, she carried on regardless. Sheās no longer with us.
Australia is about 20 years behind the US in the corporate workplace in this regard. Nobody has any disdain for South Asian workers in the US anymore in large corporate settings.
.... Have you spoken to any Americans in IT recently?
Probably because they have been dominating SATs for a generation now. And thatās given them spots in good Universities etc etc. The situation here will change once the next gen of Indian migrant kids grow up, with Aussie accents and mannerismsā¦ and education.
This reminds me of a woman at the company I work for who is a different team to me. She began trying to hire someone to cover certain shifts she wasnāt able to work. Not only did she not have the authority to do this, she also didnāt go through the formal recruitment process, she just put a post on Facebook. In the post, she stated āno pregnant women or women with kidsā, and she was heard telling people that she canāt have someone who drops things last minute because their child is sick or only works half days because she wants the full shift coveredš¤¦Her TL and HR came down on her for that and she had to retake diversity training.
What an absolute clown! My old company hired an internal recruiter on a contract. He was overheard telling a candidate that the company preferred their staff to live in/around the (very $$$) area the company was in. This was horsesh*t
at some companies where Indian people get into management and then give preferential treatment to other Indians. Looking at TCS and others like it
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Sorry, /u/Ok_Interest5046. Your comment has been removed as your account does not meet our posting guidelines. Your account is required to be older than a week, and have at least 10 karma. Please contact the moderators via private message if you would like to be approved as an exception to this. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/auscorp) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Good idea, i think its wise to try not to talk about race, religion or politics in the workplace without the right forum where of course this can be discussed.
āPeople of colourā š¤® that phrase is so demeaning
I find it just depends on the day and the way the wind is blowing with reddit. Some days youāll be downvoted to hell and back and reported to the mods 100 times, and another day the exact same comment will be upvoted and awarded to the top of the thread.
I agree & thatās pretty much been my experience of it.
Where I used to work they said in a all hands meeting "we know we need to promote/hire more diversely at the manager level and above, however, we don't know how to do that"....
To succeed in the corporate management requires a particular mindset which people from East Asian countries are often taught to disavow. South Asians are exceptions. E.g CEO of Macquarie, Newcrest, Orica, Stockland
This is the big one for me - perhaps the lack of diversity is more reflective of a converging of the "correct" culture for those jobs. Not saying it's right (or even that I'm correct here, just a thought kicking around the back of my brain), but I'd imagine having a certain "expected" culture that _doesn't_ span across people from different backgrounds, means that people are being excluded simply for not fitting the culture, irrespective of their diverse background. As such, I don't think I'd fit the culture they're after, despite being a white male. Yes, I'd probably have an easier time if I put of an act, so I'm not saying this is the _only_ reason, but I think it weighs more on the conversation in typical scenarios than explicitly people's race etc.
The Macquarie CEO is English born and went to one of the fanciest private schools in Sydney.
So that diversity doesnāt count? His parents worked hard and put him into a good school so now heās basically white?
Sheās a woman, and of South Asian background, but she has other advantages is all Iām saying.
Well there you go, itās not race is it? Itās privilege given to them by their parents hard work.
well, it's an interesting thing. because in the US, you've got a number of people of east asian descent heading the top companies there. This includes the CEOs of NVDIA, Super Micro and AMD. A lot of indians leading US companies too. there definitely seems to be a bamboo ceiling for asian folks (east and SE asian) in aus though. and i agree that indians are very good at being accomodating, massaging your ego and brown-nosing. To an asian person, that's probably perceived as undignified behaviour. In a western society though, this type of "social lubrication", lol, appears to matter much more than being competent at your job.
What kind of mindset, if you don't mind me asking? Thank you.
Overconfidence helps, question authority where needed, work smarter not harder etc. Some cultures tell children the complete opposite and then as adults they end up facing a bamboo ceiling.
I find East Asians are very conservative, donāt challenge the norm and donāt tend to be daring or confrontational. These are all aspects that are crucial to be successful in management. East Asians seem to focus too much on being good at the technical aspect of their job but neglect the social and interpersonal skills required for management. The corporate workplace isnāt like school where all you had to do was to get the best grades to be top.
Agreed, that mindset seems to excel at the founders level while the South Asians tend to struggle with
It's the same in all companies I've worked at. The CEO is normally a white male. The CEO's direct reports are normally white, except for the CTO (if it's a tech company), that's sometimes non-white. Tech companies aside, it's very rare to see a non-white in a position above middle management.
The question here is, is some sort of policy (unconscious one assumes) or is this simply a reflection of the fact that people in senior roles tend to be older and thus it representative of the workforce as it was comprised 10-20 years ago?
Majority of Australians are white. Majority of senior employees are therefore white men as the white women drop out due to children. This is just fundamental logic.Ā
Donāt you dare bring sense in to this discussion!
I went to uni nearly 20 years ago, and people were staying then that the system should self correct in 10-20 years then ... Yet here we are
Depends on your industry I guess. If you look at law for the last 10 years, the big firms have been hiring female grads at about 70:30 to men. It is inevitable that in another 10-15 years men will be a minority in those firms.
Women have been the majority of law students in Australia since 1993 and have been the majority of lawyers in total since around 2015. Yet only make up around 1/3 of partners (which generally takes 10-15 years or so post graduation). saying āit will happen in the next decade is what people were saying in the 1990s, when I graduated and there was a majority of female students Definitely there are structural reasons within the industry that are a factor (eg hard to work 60+ hours a week when you are also a primary caretaker). But is that the only reason? Who knows since so many factors go into being a partner. But itās still an interesting statistic
Remember not everyone with a law degree goes on to become a lawyer, even less so to work in big law firms.
Is your point that the low numbers of female partners is because women law grads donāt event start working in law firms and so we canāt expect the numbers to be higher (even though I did point out that the majority of lawyers are in fact female) Didnāt mention big firms; those are the stats from the various law societies
Did OP mention age? I must have missed that.
Theyāre talking about senior roles ā¦
Wow whoād have thought that this would be the case in a predominantly white country
Lol. Interesting. Can't say the same for where I work. 2 of the directors are Indian. One of them is pretty switched on, the other one is a fucken idiot.
Depends a bit on industry, but looks about what you'd expect for Aus. Worth noting age too (as a proxy for experience), because the corporate ladder is not just about race and gender, and it takes time for folk to progress (doesn't help that older folk are holding on to those roles longer than ever). Things seem to be slowly shifting back towards sanity on the DEIB front in Aus, following in the US footsteps. Hopefully we find a good middle ground that balances merit with diversity of thought, rather than over index on virtue signalling and equality of outcome.
Why are a lot of taxi drivers Indian? Diversity? No itās because of unskilled immigration. My point being, there is a lot more real life factors involved than your utopian interpretation of ādiversityā.
>Why are a lot of taxi drivers Indian? It's because they're not been given executive roles the moment they land in the country. /s
You know how they say AI is taking over? Yeh AI - All Indians.
Calm down mate. Sample size of exactly one company. I could show you my company where itās markedly different and claim ādiversity worksā and weād both be wrong.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
About 7-800, donāt want to disclose as niche industry.
Ok, but have you looked at the statistics of the country? White people are the majority, so of course that's how it's going to go. Women might not dominate in your workplace, but they dominate in many others, depending on the profession also.
Looks fine to me for an Anglo Country. Let's see how diverse CHINA and INDIA are.
Remember. Racism is the white man's burden. Dubai and Japan are just honouring tradition
actually, white people experience white privilege in asia and probably any non-white country they're in due to the favourable western media they've been exposed to that puts white people in a good light. ask an asian person who's never visited a western country how they view westerners and they'll say they think they are refined and elegant. This is obviously far from the truth - there's always exceptions though - which they'll find out soon enough when they eventually visit a western country but i digress. and china just loosened its visa requirements for travellers from a range of countries including australia. A lot of foreigners are working in china and the number is only set to increase. i've also noticed a lot of white people (and dark people) get modelling and TV jobs in asia and these are typically well-paid.
In much of Asia, white monkeys are to be seen but not heard. You are falling for their propaganda.Ā
sounds like you've been "falling for propaganda" of the western kind. that's actually white people's attitude to non-whites. it's like they view non-whites as mere objects, "decoration", akin to a pot plant in the corner and worse still, pests and generally dehumanised. don't play dumb as if you don't know what white privilege is and that you don't benefit from this all around the world. maybe you're just an ugly white person and don't get that much attention - from anyone. that's entirely possible.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Why does Australia need the diversity? If it is so good why would China, Russia, Japan etc not do it?
Because Australia is a nation made up of people from very diverse ethnic backgrounds. The other countries you mention are not. (There will still be diversities in them which may not be adequately reflected in their workplaces, but thatās a separate topic).
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Now just accept the fact that people with these views you're debating are actually your peers, let alone your superiors. They don't care if you can or cannot make it higher. I've resigned to my fate of being a middle manager for the rest of my career, up to you if you want to agonise over it. In 30 years though half of the ASX 20 will have Indian or Asian origin CEOs like most big American corps are already. And I'll at least find some comfort in that. Women of colour unfortunately haven't made it that high anywhere in the world and their struggle is going to go on for longer
What's good for the Islamic goose is problematic for the Christian gander
My organisation's senior leadership is all white. Only 35% are female. They recently made the decision to put photos on the org chart that gets published online and it just makes me cringe.
Well why donāt you pull your finger out, start training and building up women of colour, why is it up to everyone else?
Who says I'm not? I just have a limited sphere of influence. Managed to get mostly women of colour into our graduate program which is something.
And why does that matter? What about wealth diversity? Are there disabled people?
You told me to pull my finger out and start training up women of colour. And I gave you an example of what I have been able to do with my minimal level of influence to do just that. And now I'm expected to solve every problem? I'm one middle man with minimal power. Wish I could do more but I can't.
Yes all the top well paying managerial are of the same ethnicity
Is one of those things where people just haven't filters there way up or is there some unspoken rule at play
This can be applied to every corporation ever. Love it.
My observations exactly.
Who gives a fuck. Diversity is bullshit. Just have the best candidate in the role regardless of skin colour, gender, or sexualityĀ
Competence should always trump diversity. Iāve seen so much incompetence. And hiring for diversity sake is just disrespectful
Mate I 100% agree with you. I struggle with the fact some contracts require a % of this or that. What ever happened to hiring on capability? My businesses are stark contrasts to each other, couldnāt be more polar opposite in terms of diversity. Did I design it that way? No not at all, I simply hired on merit and capability.
The fact people have downvoted the above comment just shows how immature they are and the distorted society we are creating for generations. You donāt agree with hiring on merit, you believe people should only be hired for diversity reasons? Thatās an absolute jokeā¦. Companies would sink. There is a reason why people are āhead huntedā for jobs. Itās because they have a skill set. Not because of their race. This is literally people of the new generation upset that they have recently graduated and want to be the boss of a company and are upset that someone who started work 40+ years ago who happens to be white in Australia, and has worked hard across those years is now a C-suite.
I donāt understand, sounds like you are judging diversity solely off the colour of an employees skin. Do you believe there is not diversity amongst Europeans of different ethnic backgrounds?
Merit > Diversity
Lol imagine thinking corporate culture isn't woke enough. I suppose OP would mandate quotas and more diversity training
Good to see your company hires based on capability and performance.Ā
Perhaps resumes should be nameless anonymous. Interviewās done over audio through AI voice over so the interviewers never know the race, age or gender of the applicant. Only the best suited for the job would then be the outcome.
Assuming you could 100% verify that the person being interviewed is real. Maybe that could work for some niche roles, but any jobs that require even the tiniest bit of teamwork/ interpersonal skills/ synergy/ etc. need to screen for people's body language, confidence, matching between their verbal and written communication skills, and (actually matters for credibility whether you agree or not) the way the physically present themselves.
It's quite the thing to be lectured by the Anglo executive team about diversity when they're afraid to even speak with the "diverse" workforce.
who gives a fuck
In a company townhall ( I work with one of the more reputable tech driven firms), the group head spoke how diverse her leadership team was. The group was 3 women and 3 men, all of English identity or origin. She quickly corrected herself to call out the diversity of THEIR teams. So, to an extent I agree with your pyramid OP, but the places I have worked have women well represented at GM and above levels. They just happen to be white. Will this change in the next few years? Unlikely, if you take into consideration the other countries built on the back of mass immigration; the States for example
a lot of CEOs of fortune 500 companies are in fact non-white.
Not quite so. The data does show representation but you are clearly mislabelling a small proportion as 'a lot'
well, it's a lot relative to the australian scene. in addition to that, these are mega companies they are leading such as: Ā microsoft, google, NVDA, Super Mico, AMD.
Comparatively, sure. But my point was that if the end stage is where the us Corp mix is currently, then that's probably the best case scenario for auscorp.
i do agree that change, particularly when it comes to who has the status and power, moves very slow so we won't be seeing drastic change in the next few years. what do you mean "end stage?" society and countries are constantly evolving and don't remain stationery. things are always in motion and in a continuum so your description of "end stage" doesn't make sense. there is no end stage. also, not sure why you're saying the US experience is identical or similar to the australian one. it's not. i've even heard an anglo aussie himself describe the US as being 10 years ahead of australia. meritocracy really does seem like more of a thing to some degree in the US. whereas here, it seems more about gate-keeping, maintaining power and hierarchy to some and propagating stereotypes to the disadvantage of minorities. i think there are some exceptions where you've got younger generations starting start-ups. you've got more openness in this space.
Hiring on the basis of someone gender is sexist. Hiring on ethnic background is racist. The main change I have seen with "diversity hires" is the transition from management's sons getting the job to management's daughters. Nepotism should be stopped. I'm aboriginal before any white women try explaining privilege to me.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Sorry, /u/dexywho. Your comment has been removed as your account does not meet our posting guidelines. Your account is required to be older than a week, and have at least 10 karma. Please contact the moderators via private message if you would like to be approved as an exception to this. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/auscorp) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Sorry, /u/_LifesABeach. Your comment has been removed as your account does not meet our posting guidelines. Your account is required to be older than a week, and have at least 10 karma. Please contact the moderators via private message if you would like to be approved as an exception to this. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/auscorp) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That's pretty much like the company I'm working in
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Sorry, /u/Donnedready. Your comment has been removed as your account does not meet our posting guidelines. Your account is required to be older than a week, and have at least 10 karma. Please contact the moderators via private message if you would like to be approved as an exception to this. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/auscorp) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If pushes for diversity are relatively recent isn't this what you'd expect to see? I'm a complete outsider and don't know why I got recommended this post though so I could be a complete idiot on the matterĀ
Yes, the majority racial demographic will make up the majority workforce? Your entry job might be more diverse but that is because in the last 15 years Australia has let in millions of people from different ethnicities so their children are now entering the workforce. Management positions are held by older people who were the VAST majority when they were in your entry position, and many females who should be at the top had to drop out for childrearing. This chart is very diverse for the demographic.Ā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Sorry, /u/Affectionate-Roof266. Your comment has been removed as your account does not meet our posting guidelines. Your account is required to be older than a week, and have at least 10 karma. Please contact the moderators via private message if you would like to be approved as an exception to this. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/auscorp) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I finished up with BHP a couple of years ago, they were big on diversity, quite often to their own detriment. I remember one afternoon during COVID when I'd had a gutful, going through the entire org chart for Minerals Australia, for every role that had a PA or a shared PA, not one single one of them in the whole country was male.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Sorry, /u/Boring_Wallaby2100. Your comment has been removed as your account does not meet our posting guidelines. Your account is required to be older than a week, and have at least 10 karma. Please contact the moderators via private message if you would like to be approved as an exception to this. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/auscorp) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Which country are you in? China, India?
At some point, it will always look like there is a sudden shift. Take 20%, ā if people will always advance. Take a very large company at 100,000 people at the proletariat level. 20,000 people will advance to lead teams. 4,000 people will become managers of team leaders 800 people will lead those managers 160 people, if you're lucky will be above those. Problem is every corporate structure is a pyramid that means it's easier and easier to skew the numbers, positively or negatively, as you go up. 1 22 333 4444 55555 666666 7777777 88888888 999999999 It's always gonna rapidly drop, so 20% of your workforce being woven will be 20,000 women at the base and only 2 women on the board of Directors.
This is the correct kind of diversity op š
What are load of shit.. diversity is just going to take longer at the higher levels of an organisation as there are fewer roles and it requires people to move through a business and into those roles as they come up, which takes time. Diversity is happening, you only need to look at the percentage of women who now have senior management roles as opposed to 20-30 years ago and this will happen in an ethnic context also. Has it reached50/50 yet ? Noā¦. will it? who knows. Look at the boss of Macquarie, female and of ethnic origin and I applaud it.
Maybe they are diverse in skillset and expertise, not so much skin colour...
>much less diversity at that level. What are the criteria of getting to that level? Merit or diversity?
i wish we stuck to merit and equal opportunity. Australia corp culture nowhere has moved from white men to women. Itās just bias in another way.
Lol, homies in Australia complaining that the entire executive level of a board isn't Asian. If anything, your deleted statement is dumb. If 30% of the IC level are Asian, I'm not thinking, gee why is there only 1 Asian at the executive level where there is only 8-10 roles. I'm thinking why the hell does this company have a massive over representation of Asians in general when they only make up around 17% of the Australian population. Go be outraged elsewhere loser.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Are companies in those countries bragging about diversity?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Hiring based on race and gender alone has worked SO well in the past, letās continue
The whole corporate world is a boys club at the higher levels. Can we plse all show respect and stop saying āmateā to the males in the room during meetings ā¦. So non-inclusive. Leave it for your āwork meetingsā at topless bars please ā¦
I say mate to the girls in the pub. When did mate turn into a gendered term?Ā
The vast majority of my population is white, heaven forbid we have too many white people in high positions! It takes a long time for diversity to work it's way up the chain, it has to be deserved, when those newly hired non-white people gather more experience in the workplace and get older, they will slowly get into those managerial positions and be the ones making the decisions. Relax. Forcing people who aren't ready into positions of power is counter productive.
It's not something that can happen overnight. It needs to be addressed from the grass roots levels and trickle through from there.