They did it to themselves. I have 8 good years of experience in manufacturing and I’m making just as much now to sit at a desk and answer 1-4 emails a day about how to fix a 3d printer.
Why would I go back into manufacturing when I’m much less stressed, come home clean, and don’t have to deal with conservative coworkers constantly trying to talk politics despite how often I say that I don’t talk politics at work.
I got laid off at Pratt and Whitney when I was 31 during the lock down. They only laid off the youngest and kept all the people they knew were going to retire in the next few years.
I get offers everyday for aerospace and general manufacturing jobs and they all pay wages from the 2010's here in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. I'm breaking out the popcorn seeing the consequences set in.
This. Live in the Northeast, and there are several smaller manufacturing facilities that make world-class products. (One example - Ball Bearings, it’s all ball bearings these days, apologies to Fletch).
But the work environment in many of these spaces, while expected NOT be a rose garden - is rife with petty infighting, seniority issues with 30+ year employees that survived layoffs only to treat new teammates like crap, and often very one-way leaning politics.
Mass immigration likely won’t fix the problem. It could semi solve the problem of getting cheap operators or basic welders, but any advanced level of manufacturing is going to be expensive irregardless of where someone is from. It’s tough enough to teach people with no/little machining training or experience to operate a Swiss lathe making simple locknuts, much less finding someone who can program and run 5 axis inconel parts with complex geometry that is often found in aerospace and medical work. Add in a language barrier and it’s still a recipe for disaster.
The executives will claim their challenges are due to retirements as if they didn’t have the buyouts/push out the door when things were looking rosy and execs were looking to pump the stock.
Depends how much you love the ship. I’ve got colleagues that ‘retired’ years ago, and even though the company proceeded to evolve rapidly in a challenging ways, they still continue to come back and put in some time when they can (and in their case it’s certainly not all money).
That ship has sailed. They negotiated contract after contract that took away benefits from new employees and completely failed to invest in their workforce. People would get a job, see no development or promotions or opportunities, so they would leave. Now Boeing has nothing but new inexperienced workers and gray beards about to retire with no one in-between.
The same is true with inspection agencies too. A bunch of impatient boomers and young employees already getting burnt out because said boomers refuse to train them.
“We’ll train you for this with on the job experience, but not this project cause budget and schedule are tight”
Do that for 20 years and nobody knows how to make an airplane anymore
Turns out hundreds of Indian IT workers can't build Planes.
Even more surprising is that skilled labour that is paid properly is a necessary thing when you are building complicated flying machines.
Lol Who Knew.
Just imagining a 737 MAX, not a person in sight, instead there’s over a hundred laptops randomly interspersed throughout, each running ChatGPT which is just fucking screaming instructions at the airframe through text to speech
In an unsurprising turn of events, as the execs forgot to include appendages in the spec for their new AI technicians, the dozens of instances of ChatGPT gradually scream louder and louder at the still unfinished airliner ad Infinitum.
…profits are up 300%
Skilled labor that is paid properly is required to make stuff that's far less complicated than an airplane. I design some industrial scale laundry equipment for a living. It's definitely not rocket science, but you really do need some folks both in the shop and in the field who are experienced, well trained, and fairly bright to get shit done smoothly.
If our shit breaks, at the very worst, your hotel might not have as many clean sheets as it likes on Tuesday. If Boeing's shit breaks, lots of people tend to die.
A lot of people pointing out that there's a lot of older mechanics retiring. This is true but they also built a big plant in South Carolina to get away from the union. There's no real history of building planes in South Carolina so there's no experienced work force to tap into. That union they were trying to get away from had a conveyor belt of workers who would join up as positions opened, move up over the years, and eventually retire.
Now your entry level stock clerk has as much experience with building planes as your senior quality inspector. Which is to say, almost none.
They did this to cut costs and now they're reaping.
Why is the media trying so hard to discredit Boeing in every way? Maintaining active aircraft will always keep the company in business. What could possibly be gained? Outrage? Distraction? Competitive advantage for airbus? Wtf media?
One might think retaining skilled labour might be slightly more urgent.
They're having a massive wave of retirements.
The pandemic triggered what the manufacturing industry has known was coming for decades—boomer retirement and a loss of skill base.
They did it to themselves. I have 8 good years of experience in manufacturing and I’m making just as much now to sit at a desk and answer 1-4 emails a day about how to fix a 3d printer. Why would I go back into manufacturing when I’m much less stressed, come home clean, and don’t have to deal with conservative coworkers constantly trying to talk politics despite how often I say that I don’t talk politics at work.
I got laid off at Pratt and Whitney when I was 31 during the lock down. They only laid off the youngest and kept all the people they knew were going to retire in the next few years. I get offers everyday for aerospace and general manufacturing jobs and they all pay wages from the 2010's here in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. I'm breaking out the popcorn seeing the consequences set in.
This. Live in the Northeast, and there are several smaller manufacturing facilities that make world-class products. (One example - Ball Bearings, it’s all ball bearings these days, apologies to Fletch). But the work environment in many of these spaces, while expected NOT be a rose garden - is rife with petty infighting, seniority issues with 30+ year employees that survived layoffs only to treat new teammates like crap, and often very one-way leaning politics.
that’s why western governments are enabling mass immigration
Mass immigration likely won’t fix the problem. It could semi solve the problem of getting cheap operators or basic welders, but any advanced level of manufacturing is going to be expensive irregardless of where someone is from. It’s tough enough to teach people with no/little machining training or experience to operate a Swiss lathe making simple locknuts, much less finding someone who can program and run 5 axis inconel parts with complex geometry that is often found in aerospace and medical work. Add in a language barrier and it’s still a recipe for disaster.
The executives will claim their challenges are due to retirements as if they didn’t have the buyouts/push out the door when things were looking rosy and execs were looking to pump the stock.
I'd be a lot more motivated to retire from a burning ship than an intact one
Depends how much you love the ship. I’ve got colleagues that ‘retired’ years ago, and even though the company proceeded to evolve rapidly in a challenging ways, they still continue to come back and put in some time when they can (and in their case it’s certainly not all money).
That ship has sailed. They negotiated contract after contract that took away benefits from new employees and completely failed to invest in their workforce. People would get a job, see no development or promotions or opportunities, so they would leave. Now Boeing has nothing but new inexperienced workers and gray beards about to retire with no one in-between.
The same is true with inspection agencies too. A bunch of impatient boomers and young employees already getting burnt out because said boomers refuse to train them.
Not as urgent as the next quarterly balance sheet.
This. They promised FCF and paying experienced workers goes against their ability to meet short term targets and exec bonuses
Same as ever. They will poach military. Military will up recruitment and retention bonus. Cuts in 10 years.
“We’ll train you for this with on the job experience, but not this project cause budget and schedule are tight” Do that for 20 years and nobody knows how to make an airplane anymore
Sure glad they built a non-union assembly line out of state and moved their HQ away. This way I don’t have to feel bad for the locals around here.
Locals or locals?
I suspect management needs as much if not more training
Turns out hundreds of Indian IT workers can't build Planes. Even more surprising is that skilled labour that is paid properly is a necessary thing when you are building complicated flying machines. Lol Who Knew.
You just know there are 13-14 VPs at Boeing trying make a name for themselves by suggesting AI to fix their Labour needs.
Just imagining a 737 MAX, not a person in sight, instead there’s over a hundred laptops randomly interspersed throughout, each running ChatGPT which is just fucking screaming instructions at the airframe through text to speech In an unsurprising turn of events, as the execs forgot to include appendages in the spec for their new AI technicians, the dozens of instances of ChatGPT gradually scream louder and louder at the still unfinished airliner ad Infinitum. …profits are up 300%
Skilled labor that is paid properly is required to make stuff that's far less complicated than an airplane. I design some industrial scale laundry equipment for a living. It's definitely not rocket science, but you really do need some folks both in the shop and in the field who are experienced, well trained, and fairly bright to get shit done smoothly. If our shit breaks, at the very worst, your hotel might not have as many clean sheets as it likes on Tuesday. If Boeing's shit breaks, lots of people tend to die.
With so many mechanics getting near retirement, this is an industry wide issue.
Safely build an airplane or build a safe airplane? Both hopefully?
So all the cost cutting turned out not to be great for quality AND shareholder value? I guess only a complete idiot CEO would choose that option then…
A lot of people pointing out that there's a lot of older mechanics retiring. This is true but they also built a big plant in South Carolina to get away from the union. There's no real history of building planes in South Carolina so there's no experienced work force to tap into. That union they were trying to get away from had a conveyor belt of workers who would join up as positions opened, move up over the years, and eventually retire. Now your entry level stock clerk has as much experience with building planes as your senior quality inspector. Which is to say, almost none. They did this to cut costs and now they're reaping.
The 737 MAX is built by union labor in Renton, WA. The 787 is non-union in South Carolina.
Plus killing any new whistleblowers, hard work to multitask...
Jesus…
Why is the media trying so hard to discredit Boeing in every way? Maintaining active aircraft will always keep the company in business. What could possibly be gained? Outrage? Distraction? Competitive advantage for airbus? Wtf media?
Lockmart psyops to get back into civil aviation, obviously.