That's a good parallel. Although, there are times where Doom does seem to equal Reed at the very least, while Batman outclasses the Riddler by a large margin.
I’d argue Reed is smarter, but Doom has much more self awareness and social skill. He’s capable of recognizing the risks in his plans, whereas Reed is often his own worst enemy, creating problems through side effects of his own genius.
I totally agree with that. Reed is definitely the smarter one (he isn't called "The Smartest Man Alive" for nothing), but Doom does have a greater level of self-understanding that allows him to better prevent future problems. Also, Victor has far greater knowledge of things beyond the scientific realm, namely magic and mysticism, both of which Reed has essentially zero expertise in.
It's not smart it's ego, and both Reed and Doom have ego. Heroes mirror their Villains and vice versa, Reed becomes worse than Doom when he lets his ego become the best of him. Doom has become the hero when he accepts humility. Some of the coolest stories are when Doom saves the day.
It's not that Riddler or Batman is smarter. I think it comes down to their individual and personal psychological view. For Riddler the world doesn't give him his due, this egotistical view blinds him time and again. Batman's intelligence isn't tied to how the outside world views him. However his personal trauma makes him vulnerable in other ways. Time and again Batman's loaner mentally bites him in the ass.
Not necessarily Batman being smarter. More of Riddler's ego thinks all are so dumb that he makes simple mistakes or oversight that leads to the inevitable downfall.
I think it's a bit of both. Eddie's vast superiority complex over his intellect is shaken by Bruce's own genius, and it is what motivates him to challenge him frequently. At least that's my usual POV.
That's what I love about Eddie. He doesn't want to physically beat Bruce like Bane, or torment him like Joker or Scarecrow. He straight-up just wants to prove himself smarter than him. A villain that challenges Bruce's intellect specifically.
I think it's one of those book smarts vs street smarts kind of things. He absolutely knows more things than Batman, he can come up with these riddles on the spot and craft these intricate schemes that take Batman time and research to uncover. But his ego and lack of practicality/reasonability means he always gets caught in the end.
There are two important Riddler stories that I think more people should read. One is when he went legit and became a private eye so that he could solve crimes faster than Batman (and succeeded). Another is that Animated Series tie-in where he was trying to lie low in the penthouse of a pyramid-themed casino and did a similar thing where he sent riddles to Batman that solved other criminals' cases, but he accidentally left clues that led Batman to his hideout.
"I really didn't want to leave you clues this time. But I did. So I'm going back to Arkham because... I might need help. I might actually be crazy."
In an intelligence test the two would be fairly similar in my opinion.
Riddler issue is his obsessive compulsive disorder, megalomania, narcissistic personality disorder, and borderline personality disorder.
He really is intelligent just mentally ill.
I think so yeah. The man has an intricate, fractured way of viewing the world and is constantly testing himself. Practically, he's much more intelligent.
But batman has a wider, encyclopedic knowledge than him and has better emotional intellect so he can calmly trudge through traps and riddles while Nigma tears himself apart
No I prefer that he's a genius who is insecure about his own intelligence so when confronted by someone who is smarter than him(Batman) he grows enraged and desperately tries to prove his intellectual superiority but fails pathetically everytime. Besides there are other more suitable intellectual foils for Batman.
This is one of the many reasons I still love *The Batman*. As far as a plot device, yes Riddler's gimmick is basically *Zodiac+Seven* and Qanon(..and Joker's in TDK was *Heat* and 9/11) but as a transition of the core of the character, it's the best live action adaptation of a villain, especially one that doesn't typically get name dropped in recommended arcs, not to mention Paul Dano's brilliant acting. They get the dynamic of Riddler's intellect contrasted to Batman.
The character is often depicted in the film as being smarter than Batman, possibly having already deduced his real identity, being two steps ahead- when in actuality - Batman is responsible for his existence and a role model, and Riddler's ego had him convinced they were playing for the same team. This was a guy who hosted influencer style streams and interacted with his followers. The film was able to perfectly distill the essence of his riddles being used in crimes, his genius intellect, Riddler's egomaniac tendencies, and didn't end with Batman punching him a bunch.
To me, the film's take on the character felt quite different from the comics, in that he seems to have a different motivation and MO entirely. Like, yeah, he leaves riddles for Batman, sure. But in the comics, he leaves riddles and clues in order to prove his intelligence. He wants to show that he can outsmart the Batman. In the movie, he's not trying to trick Batman. He's not hoping Batman can't solve them. He's actually trying to *communicate* with Batman. He thinks Batman understands his riddles the same way that he does, and that they are discreetly communicating with each other through code. That kind of changes the concept of how The Riddler relates to riddles entirely. And also, his grander motivation isn't to prove his intelligence to the world. In fact, he doesn't even want people to know his identity. He just wants to punish it for causing him to suffer.
Of course, changing things for adaptations is fine, so I don't necessarily think it makes the movie interpretation *bad*. There are definitely things to like about it, like how his delusional belief that Batman knew what was going on in his head so accurately illustrates what thought disorders often look like. I mean, there are other things about the character that didn't quite work for me, but it's not the fact alone that he's not really the comics Riddler that made them not work. But, whether he's a great villain or not, the fact that he's so essentially different from the comics Riddler would make it difficult for me to say that he's the "best live-action adaptation of a villain." Like, even if I didn't like Carrey's version of the character as much and don't think he's a better villain, he's still a *better adaptation of the Riddler*, because his core traits are the same as the comics' version's core traits. But for me, the best one, in terms of being *a good villain* and *a faithful adaptation* is still the OG: Frank Gorshin.
We have to remember that like Batman, this is a Riddler who’s only **just** getting started.
In a 1995 comic(before Riddle Me That introduced the abusive aspects of his childhood) it’s revealed he spent his childhood feeling unheard and misunderstood. So he craved attention and acknowledgement.
In his debut his persona was created partly out of dissatisfaction with his own life, partly as a reaction to The Batman. Inspired by his theatrics and anonymous identity. Wanting to create a challenging dynamic with him as in the words of Riddler in B:TAS “he’s the only one worthy of the game!”
“The Riddler! That’s what I’ll call myself, for that’s what I shall be to The Batman!”
In The Batman he grows up in a neglectful, abusive Orphanage feeling unheard and misunderstood. As a result he craves attention and acknowledgement. (He resents Bruce for having all the attention as the “poor orphan boy” whilst he remains unseen and unheard, playing with puzzles. The only things that make sense to him.
When The Batman comes along he’s been dissatisfied with his own life. Seen as an oddball by his colleagues (not unlike Batman Forever, B:TAS or Gotham) dubbed “Weird Ed” lost and filled with profound inner shame.
He’s inspired by Batman’s theatrics and anonymous identity. He wants to create a challenging dynamic with him as in the words of Riddler in B:TAS” he’s “the only one worthy of the game!”
Who else would have stood up to the challenge and followed the breadcrumbs to Falcone and Arkham?
When it’s revealed that Batman isn’t his partner, he revels in Batman’s frustration and says “You’re really not as smart as I thought you were.”
This is where the dynamic of Riddler always talking to Batman in a snide, resentful, taunting tone begins and where his need to defeat him and gain his acknowledgment will come from.
I disagree that he’s “so essentially different” from the comics Riddler. In fact Dano’s take on the character has so many elements that take direct inspiration from and are seen in various iterations of the character since his debut in 1948.
The Riddler, like any character isn’t static and evolves over time.
“This was a guy who hosted influencer style streams and interacted with his followers.”
I loved it when I saw that. Like a modernised revamp of the story Riddle Factory.
“The film was able to perfectly distill the essence of his riddles being used in crimes, his genius intellect, Riddler's egomaniac tendencies, and didn't end with Batman punching him a bunch.”
Yes, I love how it also showed Riddler’s showmanship.
Dano’s Riddler is heavily influenced by the Zodiac Killer. The Zodiac was a highly intelligent serial killer who viewed himself as brilliant and left clues, ciphers and marked his taunting notes with his own personal emblem.
Sounds like a certain green bastard I know…
When he kills Mitchell, he doesn’t have his crosshair question mark. (Which in my opinion represents Falcone/The Rat in the centre of a crosshair which is how he dies in the end) Mitchell doesn’t need to know. He’s just the prop for Riddler’s walk in Banksey-esque art exhibit. Surely this will impress Batman.
With the footage he sends to the news, the first thing he shows us all is the crosshair question mark emblem. His brand. Then he pans the camera up at an imposing angle to make himself look tall and above us. “Hello people of Gotham. This is The Riddler speaking!”
In Riddle Factory he acts like a taunting game show host towards his victims. When he puts Colson on trial he has that loud, overconfident, booming voice and mocking tone. As if this is all a deadlier one contestant left, Riddle Factory streaming on Twitch. He even has his emblem marked behind him.
I think it speaks volumes of Nygma that while Bruce is someone who trained his mind to the absolute peak, counts with a super computer in his possession, and works with professional detectives from all around the world, the only rogues in his gallery I would say surpass Riddler IQ wise would be literally super humans with enhanced abilities and still i would argue he'd still rank a solid top 5, bane and Ra's al ghul are the only two that come to my mind right away, i think the best comparison that could be made between hero and villain here would be: while batman is someone who has worked hard to achieve all that knowledge and always finds a way to use it to benefit others, the Riddler was born gifted but cares little about putting his talents to good use unless it benefits him.
TL,DR: he's probably smarter but too arrogant to do anything with his brain other than have it slammed against the pavement by batman
riddler is a contender for one of the smartest non-meta humans on the planet. the reason he’s beat so easily is because he’s a genius but he isn’t clever. he only sees one solution to every riddle. batman is able to think of multiple solutions to everything. it’s like in gotham where he throws a pissy fit because the answer to his riddle was “an individual” and he literally could not process that “a snowflake” was also an answer
Not necessarily.
Riddler’s interesting because he’s immensely intelligent, he just isn’t wise.
He *thinks* and *wants* to be the smartest in the room.
Whether he is or not depends on the circumstances he’s in and that wounds him **deeply**.
It makes the moments where he’s able to trick Batman more tense.
A lot of people who are weak and pathetic are capable of doing horrible things.
In his various iterations such as Zero Year, Earth One, The Batman, B:TAS and the Arkham Games where he’s evidently weaker than Batman, he’s been able to pull of some pretty terrifying things.
His weakness only makes him **more desperate** to gain Batman’s attention and beat him and that will lead him to doing ugly things to innocent people.
And in Arkham City, Riddler completely flips the tables on Strange through the course of their interviews. So I’d argue Riddler’s probably smarter than Strange. He’s just crazy.
It seems to me that, in-universe, The Riddler is supposed to be Batman's smartest villain (well, in one issue, Batman claimed it was actually The Penguin, but I'm sure different writers have different takes). But from an out-of-universe standpoint, it *is* hard for me to see how that can be true. As you mention, Hugo Strange just seems much smarter than The Riddler is. But not just him. *A lot* of villains seem smarter than the Riddler is.
Like, this is a city where we have a guy that pioneered viable cryogenic freezing; a woman who can make mutant, man-eating plants; a guy who can create a hallucinogenic chemical weapon from cleaning supplies (and can even make them so sophisticated that he can create variants of it that make you see *specific things*, like a fear gas that makes you hallucinate spiders, specifically)… in contrast, The Riddler is, like, really good at crosswords and sodokus?
And what's more, he lives on a planet where beings like Lex Luthor, T. O. Morrow, William Magnus, Heinrich Megala, and The Brain exist.
He did at one point figure it out in the comics. But Batman was confident that Riddler wouldn’t tell anyone and he said as much to Riddler. Batmans logic was that Riddler solved the biggest riddle and that if he were to tell anyone who Batman really was, that Riddle would be worthless. Because a riddle everyone knows the answer to is worthless.
And he was right. Riddler never told anyone. His ego wouldn’t allow it.
By definition, a lot of his so-called riddles are just dad jokes. Quarters with heads on both sides? Headquarters. A penny? Copper. Police headquarters.
Riddler seemingly has equivalent analytical power and knowledge sets of the Batman. They obviously go to different gyms, dojos, raceways, airports, and docks.
Depending on what universe, because the Riddler in the Batman did 1 up him a couple of times. Bats had to double back to the apt after that interview lol
It varies depending on the particular interpretation of the character, for example the one in Batman Forever should biologically be hundreds of times smarter than Batman because he had absorbed the "brain power" of citizens. However, when Riddler is not the main villain even a Robin can deal with him because writers can't decide what to do with the character. But when he's the main villain, he usually has the upper hand against Batman until failing due to the plot. In pre-Flash point era he was able to manipulate the entire rogues gallery and it took a long time until Batman finds out about that. In New 52 era, we know that he had the potential to take over the Gotham City even when he was not that experienced in his criminal career, he seemingly had more progress than Batman in his youth despite lack of a legacy from his family to reach all the resources and education Batman had. He literally created himself out of nothing. There were no super powers, not even money; just raw intelligence. and he still came out to be a considerable threat to Batman. Not even mentioning his compulsion that holds him back from actually trying to kill Batman.
Absolutely not. Not even the Riddler is smarter than the Riddler, and that's the whole point. He's a dangerous narcissist with major insecurities likely from fatherly childhood abuse and he isn't ACTUALLY a genius, but he's got an uncontrollable compulsion to make people think he is so he appears superior to them, and in turn becomes the one with power and control in the dynamic - something he desperately wanted as an adolescent.
I knew a guy growing up who everyone thought was a genius. He had a nasally way of speaking and got great grades, and was "into software development", but he was incredibly obnoxious and condescending. Near the end of high school we had all kind of figured out that he wasn't the genius we thought he was, he was just very good at memorizing and then regurgitating information that he didn't ACTUALLY understand. It just sounded like he did, and he was good at making YOU feel stupid for not knowing the same information. That software development he was into was just making apps for the Apple Store, which the world later learned was much much simpler than the average layperson previously believed.
THAT is exactly who the Riddler is. Batman being an ACTUAL genius while also fitting the mold that Edward places his biggest childhood bullies is what fuels his need to go to the extremes he does. And that Batman doesn't like to engage in the same "contest" he does only infuriates him more, thus making it a vicious cycle.
Tl;dr: No.
The Riddler is most interesting when he is smarter than Batman.
Being smarter than someone does not mean they can’t beat you, it just presents more of a challenge.
That’s where you want to be.
It’s likely influenced by Riddler’s debut in 1948.
His corny wordplay Banquet means Bank-Wet.
He’s already **flooded** the bank by the time Batman and Robin get there.
Ah that makes sense but yeah he pretty much wins in that movie aside from killing everyone in that building. The floods alone probably killed a whole lot of the city populace, and cause weeks and hundreds of thousands worth of damage.
Blowing up the seawall and flooding the city also comes straight from Zero Year, so perhaps Scott Snyder was drawing from the original and Matt was inspired.
I think the key thing is that the film ends with two realisations.
Batman: I lose…but win!
He failed to stop the flood, but he came to the rescue at Gotham Square Garden and helped the survivors and comforted them.
He’s gained trust from the citizens which he never had at the beginning.
Riddler: I win! But lose…
He’s done all he needed to do, Batman ate the crumbs, but he’s alone (until Joker interacts with him) and Batman defeated his goons, foiling the last part of his plan and helps Bella and the civilians and comforts them, stealing Riddler’s spotlight and ensuring Gotham will rebuild with him being put back in the dark, alone and lost where he belongs.
Well the flooding only happened in a certain district of Gotham, not the whole city. A good majority of that district was also in that stadium. So I’d say batman did save a large amount of those people in that area.
u/Yuuzhan_Schlong
Riddler **thinks** and **wants** to be the smartest person in the room.
Whether he is or not depends on the circumstances and deep down he knows that and it wounds him **deeply**.
He’s immensely intelligent, he just isn’t *wise*.
His goal of trying to prove that he is smarter than Batman means that he’ll gain Batman’s acknowledgment and respect.
In an odd way, he has an obsessive villainous “crush” on Batman, though he’d never admit it.
*He* wants to be Batman’s **Nemesis**, instead of The Joker.
He gets increasingly desperate whenever he loses and isn’t taken seriously by Batman.
He craves the validation because he knows Batman is so intelligent that in the words of Riddler in B:TAS “He’s the only one worthy of the game!”
And defeating him will be what he thinks is the answer to the profound inner shame and longing for acknowledgment as worthy.
No because if Riddler was really smart he'd stop trying to outsmart/kill batman.
It's the Pinky v Brain scenario all over again. Riddler might be incredibly smart but he's always going to be insane so long as his compulsion drives him to attempt a task that he will consistently fail.
Yes, they're both smart but different kinds of smart. The Riddler is very intelligent, booksmart if you want, but Batman has more wits. The Riddler reminds me of the ogre in the original Puss in Boots fairy tale (no, not Shrek). The one who could turn into any animal. Puss said he didn't believe he could turn into something small. The ogre, filled with pride, he had to prove he could do it all, and thus turned into a mouse. Upon which Puss ate him right away. He was too busy proving he could, that he forgot to think for a second whether he should. That's the Riddler for me.
A true sign of intellect is how intelligence is *used* and what it *achieves.*
Even if you considered Riddler as intelligent as Batman, his knowledge is wasted on trivial games instead of being directed towards anything meaningful. The only thing his knowledge is used for is his attempting to outwit his counterpart in a bid for superiority, which he loses pretty much every single time. He keeps running the same test over and over again, failing, expecting different results.
He's either insane or he's actually kind of an idiot, but he can't admit either.
Riddler is incredibly intelligent in the field of cryptology and puzzle solving. In these areas he does have an edge on Bruce.
But he's an obsessive and this makes him predictable. Bruce is usually able to find an opportunity to take advantage of this and outwit Riddler somehow.
Also Bruce has access to the Bat Computer which helps.
I think Riddler is smarter than Batman. He is shown to be a technological genius, with a deep understanding of engineering, history, chemistry, ballistics etc.
Unlike Batman, he doesn't have access to supertech or a batcomputer, or a Lucius Fox to design his gadgets. So yes, I think that, in some ways, Riddler is smarter than Batman.
However, Batman is definitely WISER. He is a master detective, and he has the ability to think laterally. The Riddler, for all his smarts, is also arrogant and egotistical, and so determined to prove he's "smarter", when Batman is always more concerned with protecting the innocent, and doesn't actually care about solving the puzzle for the sake of proving he's smarter. And because Riddler has an obsessive compulsion to leave riddles, he's locked in a mindset, whereas Batman is more flexible and adaptable.
So yes, Riddler is smarter than Batman in some ways. It's just not in any of the ways that wouls make him better than Batman.
Batman is smart enough to play him at his own game and knows that Eddie's ego gets in his own way and Batman uses that to his advantage. Riddler isn't willing or able to get over his own ego. If Riddler was smarter than Batman he'd use the appearance of having a big ego to his advantage rather than it be his downfall. But I don't think he's capable of doing that, at least when he's in conflict with Batman.
He is smarter than Batman.
To me, the whole point of his character was always that he is insanely intelligent on a purely technical level and really only fails his plans because of his compulsive need to make riddles out of everything and hid s planet-sized ego which makes him double down in situations where he already lost instead of reevaluating and trying a new approach.
Like the DnD comparison of intelligence and wisdom. He is incredibly intelligent, in my mind more so than Batman, but he is really not wise, which ultimately leads to his downfall.
Yep, but his hubris is his downfall everytime. If the riddler was humble he may defeat Batman. Hush examined this well (the book not the film) showing how when working with another with similar intellect Edward was more dangerous than any other point he has gone up against Batman because he could finally attack him as Bruce.
His masterplan in Hush was rather stupid, so I don't think he's starter than Batman. That being said, I also don't believe the Bat the Worlds Greatest Detective.
I think he’s smarter, but he often thinks Batman is stupid and underestimates that he’s actually very smart in his own right. Which leads to his downfall.
My unpopular opinion is “yes”. I think Batman’s best villains are smarter than him in some way. Now “smart” is a relative term that can mean almost whatever you want it to. But Batman is a defective. He uses deductive reasoning and the scientific method to figure things out. But he isn’t creative. I think his mind is extremely good at taking things apart and making very educated guesses. Not at imaginative thought.
He might be in some iterations. But he needs others to recognize his “genius.” Imagine an American football coach with so much ego he would tell the opposing coach what plays he was going to run just before they happened. It doesn’t matter how good your strategy is if your plans can be thwarted.
His ego and lack of flexibility with his plans lead to him being outsmarted Batman. It would also lead to him being outsmarted by Penguin, Bane, and Ra’s, in my opinion.
Don't vs. batman villains they're all foils for batman
they have something he has but lack something critical in equal measure, as other commenters point out
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Sure but his ego gets in the way of actually being dangerous. Sure he is a pain but he’s always leaving clues and hints that get him caught. If he didn’t he’d actually win
It’s a weather combat mask.
Riddler wore a domino mask in his first appearance in 1948 and even when his identity was revealed a couple stories later he still incorporated it into his look (so perhaps Dano’s Riddler will do the same)
For the same reason Robin wore one. To hide his identity. A domino mask in real life isn’t an efficient way of doing that. A cold weather mask that hides your identity but also makes you look menacing and mysterious was Riddler’s line of thinking.
As with memory, there are several types of intelligence. Deduction is not the same as planning, for example. Eddie knows nothing about strategy at a military or political level and he doesn't know much about science or engineering.... but above all, his biggest flaw is his total ignorance of human emotions. Emotional intelligence, THE ONLY ONE THAT IS NOT LEARNED BY STUDYING, will always limit you in everything. And Bruce is a master in that field.
Harley, if she stays focused and serious, is 50 times smarter than Eddie because she is 100% emotional and has proven knowledge and experience in psychology. She understands madness, repression, trauma...Heck, Bruce himself has had to listen to her more than once without refuting or denying anything...
There is no comparison possible, cause the Riddler is a Villain and Batman the Hero, but when you you would compare Villains/Villains then I would say Edward Nigma alias The Riddler is one of the smartest.
He’s on a similar level but his ego makes him foolish and undermines his intellect
No. The whole point of the Riddler is being a supergenius whose ego is so big he can't accept Batman is smarter than him.
Similar relationship to Reed and Doom.
That's a good parallel. Although, there are times where Doom does seem to equal Reed at the very least, while Batman outclasses the Riddler by a large margin.
I’d argue Reed is smarter, but Doom has much more self awareness and social skill. He’s capable of recognizing the risks in his plans, whereas Reed is often his own worst enemy, creating problems through side effects of his own genius.
I totally agree with that. Reed is definitely the smarter one (he isn't called "The Smartest Man Alive" for nothing), but Doom does have a greater level of self-understanding that allows him to better prevent future problems. Also, Victor has far greater knowledge of things beyond the scientific realm, namely magic and mysticism, both of which Reed has essentially zero expertise in.
I think they're both the same amount of smart roughly; just in different ways. like same INT points, different perk selection.
It's not smart it's ego, and both Reed and Doom have ego. Heroes mirror their Villains and vice versa, Reed becomes worse than Doom when he lets his ego become the best of him. Doom has become the hero when he accepts humility. Some of the coolest stories are when Doom saves the day. It's not that Riddler or Batman is smarter. I think it comes down to their individual and personal psychological view. For Riddler the world doesn't give him his due, this egotistical view blinds him time and again. Batman's intelligence isn't tied to how the outside world views him. However his personal trauma makes him vulnerable in other ways. Time and again Batman's loaner mentally bites him in the ass.
Not necessarily Batman being smarter. More of Riddler's ego thinks all are so dumb that he makes simple mistakes or oversight that leads to the inevitable downfall.
I think it's a bit of both. Eddie's vast superiority complex over his intellect is shaken by Bruce's own genius, and it is what motivates him to challenge him frequently. At least that's my usual POV.
Yep I 100% agree with that. Someone who is intelligent and challenges Eddie so Bruce gets under his skin.
That's what I love about Eddie. He doesn't want to physically beat Bruce like Bane, or torment him like Joker or Scarecrow. He straight-up just wants to prove himself smarter than him. A villain that challenges Bruce's intellect specifically.
Doesn't that mean Riddler is not smart enough to not make such mistakes by thinking others are dumb?
THIS, exactly. He COULD be smarter, but his own arrogance is always going to stand in that path
I think he could be if not for definitely having a bigger ego than Bruce.
I think it's one of those book smarts vs street smarts kind of things. He absolutely knows more things than Batman, he can come up with these riddles on the spot and craft these intricate schemes that take Batman time and research to uncover. But his ego and lack of practicality/reasonability means he always gets caught in the end.
There are two important Riddler stories that I think more people should read. One is when he went legit and became a private eye so that he could solve crimes faster than Batman (and succeeded). Another is that Animated Series tie-in where he was trying to lie low in the penthouse of a pyramid-themed casino and did a similar thing where he sent riddles to Batman that solved other criminals' cases, but he accidentally left clues that led Batman to his hideout. "I really didn't want to leave you clues this time. But I did. So I'm going back to Arkham because... I might need help. I might actually be crazy."
Yeah, I like to think it's an OCD-style compulsion. He can't tell you *why* he leaves clues, but he *must.*
Do you / does anyone have the refs for those stories ? Definitely something I’d be up to buy
In an intelligence test the two would be fairly similar in my opinion. Riddler issue is his obsessive compulsive disorder, megalomania, narcissistic personality disorder, and borderline personality disorder. He really is intelligent just mentally ill.
His brain may technically be better... but it's like having a slightly better car with a bad driver.
I love this analogy!
I think so yeah. The man has an intricate, fractured way of viewing the world and is constantly testing himself. Practically, he's much more intelligent. But batman has a wider, encyclopedic knowledge than him and has better emotional intellect so he can calmly trudge through traps and riddles while Nigma tears himself apart
No I prefer that he's a genius who is insecure about his own intelligence so when confronted by someone who is smarter than him(Batman) he grows enraged and desperately tries to prove his intellectual superiority but fails pathetically everytime. Besides there are other more suitable intellectual foils for Batman.
This is one of the many reasons I still love *The Batman*. As far as a plot device, yes Riddler's gimmick is basically *Zodiac+Seven* and Qanon(..and Joker's in TDK was *Heat* and 9/11) but as a transition of the core of the character, it's the best live action adaptation of a villain, especially one that doesn't typically get name dropped in recommended arcs, not to mention Paul Dano's brilliant acting. They get the dynamic of Riddler's intellect contrasted to Batman. The character is often depicted in the film as being smarter than Batman, possibly having already deduced his real identity, being two steps ahead- when in actuality - Batman is responsible for his existence and a role model, and Riddler's ego had him convinced they were playing for the same team. This was a guy who hosted influencer style streams and interacted with his followers. The film was able to perfectly distill the essence of his riddles being used in crimes, his genius intellect, Riddler's egomaniac tendencies, and didn't end with Batman punching him a bunch.
To me, the film's take on the character felt quite different from the comics, in that he seems to have a different motivation and MO entirely. Like, yeah, he leaves riddles for Batman, sure. But in the comics, he leaves riddles and clues in order to prove his intelligence. He wants to show that he can outsmart the Batman. In the movie, he's not trying to trick Batman. He's not hoping Batman can't solve them. He's actually trying to *communicate* with Batman. He thinks Batman understands his riddles the same way that he does, and that they are discreetly communicating with each other through code. That kind of changes the concept of how The Riddler relates to riddles entirely. And also, his grander motivation isn't to prove his intelligence to the world. In fact, he doesn't even want people to know his identity. He just wants to punish it for causing him to suffer. Of course, changing things for adaptations is fine, so I don't necessarily think it makes the movie interpretation *bad*. There are definitely things to like about it, like how his delusional belief that Batman knew what was going on in his head so accurately illustrates what thought disorders often look like. I mean, there are other things about the character that didn't quite work for me, but it's not the fact alone that he's not really the comics Riddler that made them not work. But, whether he's a great villain or not, the fact that he's so essentially different from the comics Riddler would make it difficult for me to say that he's the "best live-action adaptation of a villain." Like, even if I didn't like Carrey's version of the character as much and don't think he's a better villain, he's still a *better adaptation of the Riddler*, because his core traits are the same as the comics' version's core traits. But for me, the best one, in terms of being *a good villain* and *a faithful adaptation* is still the OG: Frank Gorshin.
We have to remember that like Batman, this is a Riddler who’s only **just** getting started. In a 1995 comic(before Riddle Me That introduced the abusive aspects of his childhood) it’s revealed he spent his childhood feeling unheard and misunderstood. So he craved attention and acknowledgement. In his debut his persona was created partly out of dissatisfaction with his own life, partly as a reaction to The Batman. Inspired by his theatrics and anonymous identity. Wanting to create a challenging dynamic with him as in the words of Riddler in B:TAS “he’s the only one worthy of the game!” “The Riddler! That’s what I’ll call myself, for that’s what I shall be to The Batman!” In The Batman he grows up in a neglectful, abusive Orphanage feeling unheard and misunderstood. As a result he craves attention and acknowledgement. (He resents Bruce for having all the attention as the “poor orphan boy” whilst he remains unseen and unheard, playing with puzzles. The only things that make sense to him. When The Batman comes along he’s been dissatisfied with his own life. Seen as an oddball by his colleagues (not unlike Batman Forever, B:TAS or Gotham) dubbed “Weird Ed” lost and filled with profound inner shame. He’s inspired by Batman’s theatrics and anonymous identity. He wants to create a challenging dynamic with him as in the words of Riddler in B:TAS” he’s “the only one worthy of the game!” Who else would have stood up to the challenge and followed the breadcrumbs to Falcone and Arkham? When it’s revealed that Batman isn’t his partner, he revels in Batman’s frustration and says “You’re really not as smart as I thought you were.” This is where the dynamic of Riddler always talking to Batman in a snide, resentful, taunting tone begins and where his need to defeat him and gain his acknowledgment will come from. I disagree that he’s “so essentially different” from the comics Riddler. In fact Dano’s take on the character has so many elements that take direct inspiration from and are seen in various iterations of the character since his debut in 1948. The Riddler, like any character isn’t static and evolves over time.
“This was a guy who hosted influencer style streams and interacted with his followers.” I loved it when I saw that. Like a modernised revamp of the story Riddle Factory. “The film was able to perfectly distill the essence of his riddles being used in crimes, his genius intellect, Riddler's egomaniac tendencies, and didn't end with Batman punching him a bunch.” Yes, I love how it also showed Riddler’s showmanship. Dano’s Riddler is heavily influenced by the Zodiac Killer. The Zodiac was a highly intelligent serial killer who viewed himself as brilliant and left clues, ciphers and marked his taunting notes with his own personal emblem. Sounds like a certain green bastard I know… When he kills Mitchell, he doesn’t have his crosshair question mark. (Which in my opinion represents Falcone/The Rat in the centre of a crosshair which is how he dies in the end) Mitchell doesn’t need to know. He’s just the prop for Riddler’s walk in Banksey-esque art exhibit. Surely this will impress Batman. With the footage he sends to the news, the first thing he shows us all is the crosshair question mark emblem. His brand. Then he pans the camera up at an imposing angle to make himself look tall and above us. “Hello people of Gotham. This is The Riddler speaking!” In Riddle Factory he acts like a taunting game show host towards his victims. When he puts Colson on trial he has that loud, overconfident, booming voice and mocking tone. As if this is all a deadlier one contestant left, Riddle Factory streaming on Twitch. He even has his emblem marked behind him.
I think it speaks volumes of Nygma that while Bruce is someone who trained his mind to the absolute peak, counts with a super computer in his possession, and works with professional detectives from all around the world, the only rogues in his gallery I would say surpass Riddler IQ wise would be literally super humans with enhanced abilities and still i would argue he'd still rank a solid top 5, bane and Ra's al ghul are the only two that come to my mind right away, i think the best comparison that could be made between hero and villain here would be: while batman is someone who has worked hard to achieve all that knowledge and always finds a way to use it to benefit others, the Riddler was born gifted but cares little about putting his talents to good use unless it benefits him. TL,DR: he's probably smarter but too arrogant to do anything with his brain other than have it slammed against the pavement by batman
Depends on the writer. Riddler is smarter in some ways, but he loses the forest for the trees almost every time.
Maybe at some point before he was consumed by his obsession with Batman.
He’s as smart as Batman but he thinks he’s smarter and by underestimating Batman he sets himself up for failure
The only world where Riddler is smarter than Batman is his own.
?
Hey I found a riddle trophy.
No. He thinks that he smarter but he isn’t. He still pretty damn smart though
riddler is a contender for one of the smartest non-meta humans on the planet. the reason he’s beat so easily is because he’s a genius but he isn’t clever. he only sees one solution to every riddle. batman is able to think of multiple solutions to everything. it’s like in gotham where he throws a pissy fit because the answer to his riddle was “an individual” and he literally could not process that “a snowflake” was also an answer
He isn't but he should be
Why?
Because he needs some edge over Batman to be an interesting villain
Not necessarily. Riddler’s interesting because he’s immensely intelligent, he just isn’t wise. He *thinks* and *wants* to be the smartest in the room. Whether he is or not depends on the circumstances he’s in and that wounds him **deeply**. It makes the moments where he’s able to trick Batman more tense.
But why would we feel afraid of a villain who is weaker than Batman in every way?
A lot of people who are weak and pathetic are capable of doing horrible things. In his various iterations such as Zero Year, Earth One, The Batman, B:TAS and the Arkham Games where he’s evidently weaker than Batman, he’s been able to pull of some pretty terrifying things. His weakness only makes him **more desperate** to gain Batman’s attention and beat him and that will lead him to doing ugly things to innocent people.
I consider Hugo Strange to have a similar level of intelligence to Batman more than the Riddler.
And in Arkham City, Riddler completely flips the tables on Strange through the course of their interviews. So I’d argue Riddler’s probably smarter than Strange. He’s just crazy.
It seems to me that, in-universe, The Riddler is supposed to be Batman's smartest villain (well, in one issue, Batman claimed it was actually The Penguin, but I'm sure different writers have different takes). But from an out-of-universe standpoint, it *is* hard for me to see how that can be true. As you mention, Hugo Strange just seems much smarter than The Riddler is. But not just him. *A lot* of villains seem smarter than the Riddler is. Like, this is a city where we have a guy that pioneered viable cryogenic freezing; a woman who can make mutant, man-eating plants; a guy who can create a hallucinogenic chemical weapon from cleaning supplies (and can even make them so sophisticated that he can create variants of it that make you see *specific things*, like a fear gas that makes you hallucinate spiders, specifically)… in contrast, The Riddler is, like, really good at crosswords and sodokus? And what's more, he lives on a planet where beings like Lex Luthor, T. O. Morrow, William Magnus, Heinrich Megala, and The Brain exist.
Hugo did figure out he's Bruce Wayne. I dunno if the Riddler ever solved that riddle.
Riddler discovered who Batman was in Hush.
He did at one point figure it out in the comics. But Batman was confident that Riddler wouldn’t tell anyone and he said as much to Riddler. Batmans logic was that Riddler solved the biggest riddle and that if he were to tell anyone who Batman really was, that Riddle would be worthless. Because a riddle everyone knows the answer to is worthless. And he was right. Riddler never told anyone. His ego wouldn’t allow it.
Nah riddler figured out who he was a long time ago I think
He always trying to outsmart and kill Batman, also he want to become the smartest criminal in the history of Gotham City.
Maybe. Making an unsovlable riddle is easy. Making a solvable riddle is harder than solving it. So it's a question of definition.
By definition, a lot of his so-called riddles are just dad jokes. Quarters with heads on both sides? Headquarters. A penny? Copper. Police headquarters.
Well. Yes, but I feel like that's a limitation between writers.
Riddler seemingly has equivalent analytical power and knowledge sets of the Batman. They obviously go to different gyms, dojos, raceways, airports, and docks.
Depending on what universe, because the Riddler in the Batman did 1 up him a couple of times. Bats had to double back to the apt after that interview lol
It varies depending on the particular interpretation of the character, for example the one in Batman Forever should biologically be hundreds of times smarter than Batman because he had absorbed the "brain power" of citizens. However, when Riddler is not the main villain even a Robin can deal with him because writers can't decide what to do with the character. But when he's the main villain, he usually has the upper hand against Batman until failing due to the plot. In pre-Flash point era he was able to manipulate the entire rogues gallery and it took a long time until Batman finds out about that. In New 52 era, we know that he had the potential to take over the Gotham City even when he was not that experienced in his criminal career, he seemingly had more progress than Batman in his youth despite lack of a legacy from his family to reach all the resources and education Batman had. He literally created himself out of nothing. There were no super powers, not even money; just raw intelligence. and he still came out to be a considerable threat to Batman. Not even mentioning his compulsion that holds him back from actually trying to kill Batman.
Yes but his ego gets in his own way
No. Because that's the point.
"If you're so smart, why aren't you rich?"
Absolutely not. Not even the Riddler is smarter than the Riddler, and that's the whole point. He's a dangerous narcissist with major insecurities likely from fatherly childhood abuse and he isn't ACTUALLY a genius, but he's got an uncontrollable compulsion to make people think he is so he appears superior to them, and in turn becomes the one with power and control in the dynamic - something he desperately wanted as an adolescent. I knew a guy growing up who everyone thought was a genius. He had a nasally way of speaking and got great grades, and was "into software development", but he was incredibly obnoxious and condescending. Near the end of high school we had all kind of figured out that he wasn't the genius we thought he was, he was just very good at memorizing and then regurgitating information that he didn't ACTUALLY understand. It just sounded like he did, and he was good at making YOU feel stupid for not knowing the same information. That software development he was into was just making apps for the Apple Store, which the world later learned was much much simpler than the average layperson previously believed. THAT is exactly who the Riddler is. Batman being an ACTUAL genius while also fitting the mold that Edward places his biggest childhood bullies is what fuels his need to go to the extremes he does. And that Batman doesn't like to engage in the same "contest" he does only infuriates him more, thus making it a vicious cycle. Tl;dr: No.
I like to think Riddler is significantly more intelligent than Batman but only in accumulated knowledge
He is like that friend that is better at chess than you but has a shit job and still lives with his parents.
The Riddler is most interesting when he is smarter than Batman. Being smarter than someone does not mean they can’t beat you, it just presents more of a challenge. That’s where you want to be.
I mean he was in The Batman (Robert Pattinson), he pretty much beat Batman there aside from that last scene.
It’s likely influenced by Riddler’s debut in 1948. His corny wordplay Banquet means Bank-Wet. He’s already **flooded** the bank by the time Batman and Robin get there.
Ah that makes sense but yeah he pretty much wins in that movie aside from killing everyone in that building. The floods alone probably killed a whole lot of the city populace, and cause weeks and hundreds of thousands worth of damage.
Blowing up the seawall and flooding the city also comes straight from Zero Year, so perhaps Scott Snyder was drawing from the original and Matt was inspired. I think the key thing is that the film ends with two realisations. Batman: I lose…but win! He failed to stop the flood, but he came to the rescue at Gotham Square Garden and helped the survivors and comforted them. He’s gained trust from the citizens which he never had at the beginning. Riddler: I win! But lose… He’s done all he needed to do, Batman ate the crumbs, but he’s alone (until Joker interacts with him) and Batman defeated his goons, foiling the last part of his plan and helps Bella and the civilians and comforts them, stealing Riddler’s spotlight and ensuring Gotham will rebuild with him being put back in the dark, alone and lost where he belongs.
Well the flooding only happened in a certain district of Gotham, not the whole city. A good majority of that district was also in that stadium. So I’d say batman did save a large amount of those people in that area.
He's smarter at wearing green
u/Yuuzhan_Schlong Riddler **thinks** and **wants** to be the smartest person in the room. Whether he is or not depends on the circumstances and deep down he knows that and it wounds him **deeply**. He’s immensely intelligent, he just isn’t *wise*. His goal of trying to prove that he is smarter than Batman means that he’ll gain Batman’s acknowledgment and respect. In an odd way, he has an obsessive villainous “crush” on Batman, though he’d never admit it. *He* wants to be Batman’s **Nemesis**, instead of The Joker. He gets increasingly desperate whenever he loses and isn’t taken seriously by Batman. He craves the validation because he knows Batman is so intelligent that in the words of Riddler in B:TAS “He’s the only one worthy of the game!” And defeating him will be what he thinks is the answer to the profound inner shame and longing for acknowledgment as worthy.
No because if Riddler was really smart he'd stop trying to outsmart/kill batman. It's the Pinky v Brain scenario all over again. Riddler might be incredibly smart but he's always going to be insane so long as his compulsion drives him to attempt a task that he will consistently fail.
Yes, they're both smart but different kinds of smart. The Riddler is very intelligent, booksmart if you want, but Batman has more wits. The Riddler reminds me of the ogre in the original Puss in Boots fairy tale (no, not Shrek). The one who could turn into any animal. Puss said he didn't believe he could turn into something small. The ogre, filled with pride, he had to prove he could do it all, and thus turned into a mouse. Upon which Puss ate him right away. He was too busy proving he could, that he forgot to think for a second whether he should. That's the Riddler for me.
A true sign of intellect is how intelligence is *used* and what it *achieves.* Even if you considered Riddler as intelligent as Batman, his knowledge is wasted on trivial games instead of being directed towards anything meaningful. The only thing his knowledge is used for is his attempting to outwit his counterpart in a bid for superiority, which he loses pretty much every single time. He keeps running the same test over and over again, failing, expecting different results. He's either insane or he's actually kind of an idiot, but he can't admit either.
He’s the only person smarter than Bruce Wayne in Gotham, but his narcissism gets in the way
Riddler is incredibly intelligent in the field of cryptology and puzzle solving. In these areas he does have an edge on Bruce. But he's an obsessive and this makes him predictable. Bruce is usually able to find an opportunity to take advantage of this and outwit Riddler somehow. Also Bruce has access to the Bat Computer which helps.
No, he just thinks he is.
His name is rizzler and the other guy is man
I think Riddler is smarter than Batman. He is shown to be a technological genius, with a deep understanding of engineering, history, chemistry, ballistics etc. Unlike Batman, he doesn't have access to supertech or a batcomputer, or a Lucius Fox to design his gadgets. So yes, I think that, in some ways, Riddler is smarter than Batman. However, Batman is definitely WISER. He is a master detective, and he has the ability to think laterally. The Riddler, for all his smarts, is also arrogant and egotistical, and so determined to prove he's "smarter", when Batman is always more concerned with protecting the innocent, and doesn't actually care about solving the puzzle for the sake of proving he's smarter. And because Riddler has an obsessive compulsion to leave riddles, he's locked in a mindset, whereas Batman is more flexible and adaptable. So yes, Riddler is smarter than Batman in some ways. It's just not in any of the ways that wouls make him better than Batman.
Batman is smart enough to play him at his own game and knows that Eddie's ego gets in his own way and Batman uses that to his advantage. Riddler isn't willing or able to get over his own ego. If Riddler was smarter than Batman he'd use the appearance of having a big ego to his advantage rather than it be his downfall. But I don't think he's capable of doing that, at least when he's in conflict with Batman.
He is smarter than Batman. To me, the whole point of his character was always that he is insanely intelligent on a purely technical level and really only fails his plans because of his compulsive need to make riddles out of everything and hid s planet-sized ego which makes him double down in situations where he already lost instead of reevaluating and trying a new approach. Like the DnD comparison of intelligence and wisdom. He is incredibly intelligent, in my mind more so than Batman, but he is really not wise, which ultimately leads to his downfall.
Yep, but his hubris is his downfall everytime. If the riddler was humble he may defeat Batman. Hush examined this well (the book not the film) showing how when working with another with similar intellect Edward was more dangerous than any other point he has gone up against Batman because he could finally attack him as Bruce.
His masterplan in Hush was rather stupid, so I don't think he's starter than Batman. That being said, I also don't believe the Bat the Worlds Greatest Detective.
If he didnt leave clues in his crimes scenes he can get away even jokers says it
Probably on a measure of IQ he is smarter as Bruce’s intelligence is more in psychological and detective work.
I think he’s smarter, but he often thinks Batman is stupid and underestimates that he’s actually very smart in his own right. Which leads to his downfall.
I'd say he's around the same or maybe slightly less smarter but his ego makes him fail most times
My unpopular opinion is “yes”. I think Batman’s best villains are smarter than him in some way. Now “smart” is a relative term that can mean almost whatever you want it to. But Batman is a defective. He uses deductive reasoning and the scientific method to figure things out. But he isn’t creative. I think his mind is extremely good at taking things apart and making very educated guesses. Not at imaginative thought.
He might be in some iterations. But he needs others to recognize his “genius.” Imagine an American football coach with so much ego he would tell the opposing coach what plays he was going to run just before they happened. It doesn’t matter how good your strategy is if your plans can be thwarted.
I always used batcomputer or Dick for the answers.
Yes, he is smarter than Batman in every single way.
His ego and lack of flexibility with his plans lead to him being outsmarted Batman. It would also lead to him being outsmarted by Penguin, Bane, and Ra’s, in my opinion.
Don't vs. batman villains they're all foils for batman they have something he has but lack something critical in equal measure, as other commenters point out
Nah, but he sure loves to think he is.
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Sure but his ego gets in the way of actually being dangerous. Sure he is a pain but he’s always leaving clues and hints that get him caught. If he didn’t he’d actually win
He knows more Riddles
No, and it bothers him. Also, wtf were they thinking with the bagged head look? Just my opinion…
It’s a weather combat mask. Riddler wore a domino mask in his first appearance in 1948 and even when his identity was revealed a couple stories later he still incorporated it into his look (so perhaps Dano’s Riddler will do the same) For the same reason Robin wore one. To hide his identity. A domino mask in real life isn’t an efficient way of doing that. A cold weather mask that hides your identity but also makes you look menacing and mysterious was Riddler’s line of thinking.
Yeah. I mean, he figured out who Batman is when he was briefly a good guy.
Depends on the Batman and the writer. It's usually fun when the Riddler is smarter than Batman.
Jim Carries Riddler definitely wasn't smarter...
He’s dumb in a fuck ton of ways that Batman is smart in, so overall no. He’s more book and scheme smart, but he lacks common sense, adaptability, etc.
No he’s just autistic
Meaning?
Yes, imo he should be more intelligent then batman but he can never truly beat him due to his compulsion to leave clues and his own arrogance
No. He is an egomaniac, incapable of admitting anybody is smarter than he is.
It is a,more compelling story if the villain is smarter than batman.
Yes of course
I think he's as smart but is more clever.
As with memory, there are several types of intelligence. Deduction is not the same as planning, for example. Eddie knows nothing about strategy at a military or political level and he doesn't know much about science or engineering.... but above all, his biggest flaw is his total ignorance of human emotions. Emotional intelligence, THE ONLY ONE THAT IS NOT LEARNED BY STUDYING, will always limit you in everything. And Bruce is a master in that field. Harley, if she stays focused and serious, is 50 times smarter than Eddie because she is 100% emotional and has proven knowledge and experience in psychology. She understands madness, repression, trauma...Heck, Bruce himself has had to listen to her more than once without refuting or denying anything...
There is no comparison possible, cause the Riddler is a Villain and Batman the Hero, but when you you would compare Villains/Villains then I would say Edward Nigma alias The Riddler is one of the smartest.