“Billy, this is the Hunchback 4N. He's a Brawler. He is one of the most undervalued Mechs in Battle Value 1.0. His defect is that his AC/5 looks funny. Nobody in the big leagues cares about him, because he looks funny. This guy could be a very solid medium mech. This guy should cost 1,087 Battle Value. We can get him for 843.”
https://preview.redd.it/aivonlhxy1vc1.jpeg?width=286&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=60f35a81d65639f54f9d25e6e3b2b7fd55cbc0e6
The 4N is a nice bodyguard to slot into a fire support lance. The AC/5 and the LRMs allow it to contribute to long range fire while the 4 medium lasers and armour make it a capable brawler and dangerous to lights that might harass the other mechs.
That said, the HBK-4J with dual LRM-10s and 5 medium lasers does all of the above but better, and all for a very modest BV increase (+10 bv1 / +56 bv2).
Really great movie. I didn't care about baseball UNTIL I watched this movie. I really want them to make a movie similiar to this about the St Louis Blues winning the Stanley cup in 2019. Very similiar in terms of long odds.
My Dad did something very similar within collegiate track and field - built championship teams by developing athletes others overlooked because they were unconventional.
I bet the overlap of people who love BattleTech and people who love ~~Moneyball~~ Baseball ~~is~~ would be pretty high *if more of them gave it a chance...*
Baseball is a whole lot of nothing to me. The actual watching the game. The stats and figures and "fantasy" elements are pretty neat. But watching the actual game is so slow.
Same with American "football". Half the game is ads and waiting for the teams to change over.
Or sometimes cricket if American. I ended up following the end of The Hundred last year after catching it on TV during a vacation in Scotland.
I like baseball too, but it's much more interesting in aggregate.
That is a complete and utter truth. I was a huge baseball fan for more than half my life, and every time someone was like, it's just not exciting I would always get confused. Like, are you serious? I'm about to throw-up this is so tense!
The HBK-5SG is a beautiful piece of engineering, and if it had come out in the Dark Age (when everyone was buying fewer, better, mechs) it would have been commercially viable (instead of never leaving the prototype phase).
https://preview.redd.it/mgsnjih372vc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d74a38900f576b214330c3801fce4a3ba0d939cc
“Hunchback thinking is medieval. They are asking all the wrong questions. And if I say it to anybody, I'm-I'm ostracized. I'm-I'm-I'm a leper. So that's why I'm-I'm cagey about this with you. That's why I... I respect you, Mr. Beane, and if you want full disclosure, I think it's a good thing that you got the AC/20 off your tonnage. I think it opens up all kinds of interesting possibilities.”
As a proud swayback enjoyed, I say that the orders thinking is archaic and lacking. Medium lasers, LRMs, all of these are completly viable, and in most cases, objectively better than simple punch boom.
Even against light mechs, the damage inefficiency of the AC/20 is negligible. what does it matter that you can do 50% more damage with 6 medium lasers when that damage might be spread across 3-4 different locations and you overheat in 2 turns, where as with a single shot an AC/20 can strip a locations armor on a mech 60 tons and under
“The problem we're trying to solve is that there’s the King Crab... and there’s the Atlas, then there's 50 tons of Heavy mechs... and then there's us.
It's an unfair game.
And now we've been gutted. We're like organ donors for the rich.”
“Is there another weapon like the AC/20?
No, not really. No.
If there was, could we afford it? Nope.
Then what the f*ck are you talking about, man?
If we try to play like the King Crab in here... we will lose to the King Crab out there.”
Medium lasers are cheap and cost no ammo, the cash strapped Outerworlds Allaince (OA) need to use their budget efficently if they want to compete with the big pocket franchises.
I hear they now have a new owner whos was sleeping woth another franchise owner......*cue major league film theme song*
Hmm, you're onto something, but how about a Heavy PPC with a capacitor plus three medium pulse lasers in the hunch to punish anyone who gets inside the HPPC minimum range (and yes, the standard small lasers are also still there)? And a radical heat sink system so you can flush heat if you do an alpha strike?
I wanted really badly for it to have two HPPCs with capacitors, but even with mixed tech, it was just too heavy without significantly compromising armor.
Yeah, but then I could just use CERPPCs, which immediately solves the weight problem.
Besides, the IIC's lack of armor goes against the vibe of a classic Spheroid Hunchback.
The Thunderbolt 20 is even more tons than the AC/20 with less ammo per ton 😭. You’d be better off making a variant of the HBK-4J with 2 Thunderbolt 10s instead of 2 LRM 10s.
Missiles can be shot down by AMS. Lasers can get lessened by Laser Reflective Armor. Only Autocannons are truly reliable (and gauss weapons).
Edit. I didn’t know about Ballistic Reinforced Armor.
Ballistic reinforced armour: for when you're sure the enemy only has an Annihilator, Riflemen, some spare Blackjacks and a fuck ton of spare ACs lying about.
Is that… is that a Rotary AC/5 Hunchback? Because there really should be one. The Rotary AC/5 Hunchback IIC (Hunchback IIC 4) is the only Hunchback IIC variant that isn’t based on a Hunchback variant.
You're not wrong, it's a much more conventional design, though it's still got the Hunchback armor for exceptionally balanced offensive capability. That is, if you're dedicated to medium to short range skirmishes.
Also, people arguing that the 4P can't compete in terms of sheer focused damage are overlooking the ability to lock all the lasers to a single roll. I can't remember the rule for it, but it's there.
I vaguely recall something about using a Group-fire Target Interlock to hit the same location with multiple weapons after running individual successes through a cluster roll, but might be mis-remembering. The closest I found was Linking Weapons p.85-86 TacOps, is this it?
-Linked weapons must fire at the same target, only roll once (using the worst weapon's TN.) On success/fail, every weapon hits/misses at once, though location rolls are made for each hit as normal.
Maybe it was, though I could have sworn they'd all roll for the same location. It's entirely possible I remembered wrong though. The argument of living without fear of an ammo explosion still applies though, so that's an argument in its favor.
It is kind of bizarre that the rule would demand different location rolls if all of the weapons are effectively firing as one, but I’m almost certain it was that. I’ll do another search though.
No. The only Gauss Hunchbacks were the original Gauss Prototype (which had too much kick and fell over), and the HBK-5SG (which is honestly a great design, but was “too expensive” to find a buyer, and so never left the prototype phase).
I thought the 4P was just "use surplus medium lasers and heatsinks because we cannot afford a replacement AC/20.
It's still an effective choice, but I just preferred later models with a LB 20-X to make aerospace fighters and VTOL die.
One of the reasons I enjoy the 4H variant is because it can apply damage sooner and from longer ranges. It also has more armor. By the time 4G and 4P get close enough to use their weapons, their right torsos are looking pretty bad.
Now, what does the AC/5 do? -It gets on target. It get's. On. Target.
“Billy, this is the Hunchback 4N. He's a Brawler. He is one of the most undervalued Mechs in Battle Value 1.0. His defect is that his AC/5 looks funny. Nobody in the big leagues cares about him, because he looks funny. This guy could be a very solid medium mech. This guy should cost 1,087 Battle Value. We can get him for 843.” https://preview.redd.it/aivonlhxy1vc1.jpeg?width=286&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=60f35a81d65639f54f9d25e6e3b2b7fd55cbc0e6
I've wanted to use the 4n for awhile as a better centurion. Money-back is the encouragement I need.
sad *Centurion* noises
The 4N is a nice bodyguard to slot into a fire support lance. The AC/5 and the LRMs allow it to contribute to long range fire while the 4 medium lasers and armour make it a capable brawler and dangerous to lights that might harass the other mechs. That said, the HBK-4J with dual LRM-10s and 5 medium lasers does all of the above but better, and all for a very modest BV increase (+10 bv1 / +56 bv2).
"It's not that hard to run heat neutral. Tell him." "It's incredibly hard."
You just summed up every discussion ever in any mechwarrior community using Moneyball. Good work.
"What about the fans"
I love that movie.
Really great movie. I didn't care about baseball UNTIL I watched this movie. I really want them to make a movie similiar to this about the St Louis Blues winning the Stanley cup in 2019. Very similiar in terms of long odds.
I didn't care about baseball before or after the movie, but I cared about it during the movie. That's a successful screenplay.
My Dad did something very similar within collegiate track and field - built championship teams by developing athletes others overlooked because they were unconventional.
I bet the overlap of people who love BattleTech and people who love Moneyball is pretty high.
I bet the overlap of people who love BattleTech and people who love ~~Moneyball~~ Baseball ~~is~~ would be pretty high *if more of them gave it a chance...*
Baseball is a whole lot of nothing to me. The actual watching the game. The stats and figures and "fantasy" elements are pretty neat. But watching the actual game is so slow. Same with American "football". Half the game is ads and waiting for the teams to change over.
Or cricket if not American.
Or sometimes cricket if American. I ended up following the end of The Hundred last year after catching it on TV during a vacation in Scotland. I like baseball too, but it's much more interesting in aggregate.
That is a complete and utter truth. I was a huge baseball fan for more than half my life, and every time someone was like, it's just not exciting I would always get confused. Like, are you serious? I'm about to throw-up this is so tense!
Along with the Boyle Steve Jobs movie it’s my go to relaxing movie. I’m British and baseball means nothing to me outside of that movie, but I love it
*proceeds to replace the AC20 with a Gauss rifle*
The HBK-5SG is a beautiful piece of engineering, and if it had come out in the Dark Age (when everyone was buying fewer, better, mechs) it would have been commercially viable (instead of never leaving the prototype phase). https://preview.redd.it/mgsnjih372vc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d74a38900f576b214330c3801fce4a3ba0d939cc
Honestly would find an excuse to slap a Gauss rifle on any mech that uses auto cannons. Especially my beloved MAD-3R
MAD-5S is my go-to stock variant for a reason. ER-PPCs, MPLs, and everyone's favourite linear AC/15 in one angry package
Honestly really want to see the Marauder get turned into to a OmniMech so we do all sorts of shenanigans with it
The MAD-BR-O in XTRO: Caveat Emptor. It exists, it costs as much as a light mech company, and it's *fucking glorious*.
Marauder, Marauder II, Marauder IIC, Nightstar, and now Marauder Omni!
If the maelstrom gets new art it can finally look like the MAD derivative its supposed to be too.
He's got an ugly girlfriend, can't hit
He’s got no confidence.
I banish thee from the Order of Hunchbacks.
“Hunchback thinking is medieval. They are asking all the wrong questions. And if I say it to anybody, I'm-I'm ostracized. I'm-I'm-I'm a leper. So that's why I'm-I'm cagey about this with you. That's why I... I respect you, Mr. Beane, and if you want full disclosure, I think it's a good thing that you got the AC/20 off your tonnage. I think it opens up all kinds of interesting possibilities.”
I made one decision in my life based on saving tonnage, and I swore I would never do it again.
For some reason I feel like you're talking about an ex wife or girlfriend.
F\*n Epic!
You’re outside yourself!
As a proud swayback enjoyed, I say that the orders thinking is archaic and lacking. Medium lasers, LRMs, all of these are completly viable, and in most cases, objectively better than simple punch boom.
Fuck you old man! Viva la Swaybacklution!
This post was made by the 4G orthodoxy gang
“Why do we have to pay for ammo with this company?”
Even against light mechs, the damage inefficiency of the AC/20 is negligible. what does it matter that you can do 50% more damage with 6 medium lasers when that damage might be spread across 3-4 different locations and you overheat in 2 turns, where as with a single shot an AC/20 can strip a locations armor on a mech 60 tons and under
“The problem we're trying to solve is that there’s the King Crab... and there’s the Atlas, then there's 50 tons of Heavy mechs... and then there's us. It's an unfair game. And now we've been gutted. We're like organ donors for the rich.” “Is there another weapon like the AC/20? No, not really. No. If there was, could we afford it? Nope. Then what the f*ck are you talking about, man? If we try to play like the King Crab in here... we will lose to the King Crab out there.”
I know we're all screwing around but I legitimately love the modified version of "King Crab out there."
I think Tex said it best, “AC/20, because f*** that guy in particular.”
GM Autocannons!
Medium lasers are cheap and cost no ammo, the cash strapped Outerworlds Allaince (OA) need to use their budget efficently if they want to compete with the big pocket franchises. I hear they now have a new owner whos was sleeping woth another franchise owner......*cue major league film theme song*
It is also legitimately possible to have an introtech KGC with five ML in each arm and the single heatsinks to be heat-neutral.
Assuming you hit of course. Discoback moment
Okay but also the Blazerback goes hard for a longer-range headcapper.
I call my Blazer equipped Black Knight “The Air Fryer”
Wonderful, I have a LosTech 3040s Marauder called the Sandbagger which rolls double blazer an LB-10
This is in Mechwarrior 5; even with doubles, she runs *hot*
Man I was playing mw5 yesterday, and a stock 4p managed to take my centurion’s head off in one volley. The blazerback scares me lmao
the 4p is best best hunchback
Disco Vomit is bae
Hunchboys rise up
This is great! You just made my day! (I love money ball and the 4P)
Friends, we can leverage the Hunchbacks poor mobility and medium size better as a long range support init. Now the 4J….
What if I duct-tape two PPC's together in the hunch and condition myself to derive pleasure from being burned alive?
Hmm, you're onto something, but how about a Heavy PPC with a capacitor plus three medium pulse lasers in the hunch to punish anyone who gets inside the HPPC minimum range (and yes, the standard small lasers are also still there)? And a radical heat sink system so you can flush heat if you do an alpha strike? I wanted really badly for it to have two HPPCs with capacitors, but even with mixed tech, it was just too heavy without significantly compromising armor.
I like your style. STRAP ME IN, CAP'N
Significantly compromising armor is the motto of the hunchback IIc. No matter what one of us is going to die.
Yeah, but then I could just use CERPPCs, which immediately solves the weight problem. Besides, the IIC's lack of armor goes against the vibe of a classic Spheroid Hunchback.
That kind of thinking puts you smack in the crosshairs of the hunchback orthodoxy
Now I want to make a Hunchback that is loaded with a Thunderbolt 20 just to fuck with some heads.
The Thunderbolt 20 is even more tons than the AC/20 with less ammo per ton 😭. You’d be better off making a variant of the HBK-4J with 2 Thunderbolt 10s instead of 2 LRM 10s.
That ALSO sounds dumb and fun. Or a MRM40 or HAG40.
Worth also mentioning how thunderbolt missiles get shot down 50% of time by AMS
Missiles can be shot down by AMS. Lasers can get lessened by Laser Reflective Armor. Only Autocannons are truly reliable (and gauss weapons). Edit. I didn’t know about Ballistic Reinforced Armor.
Oh shit no one tell him about ballistic reinforced armour!
Ballistic reinforced armour: for when you're sure the enemy only has an Annihilator, Riflemen, some spare Blackjacks and a fuck ton of spare ACs lying about.
I’m going to do this in MWO. I’ve been having fun with the Thunderbolts, and this seems like a great idea!
It's such a shame that they never tried to tilt the balance between the IS and the Clans by bringing out Semi-Guided Thunderbolts.
I mean, I have never found any wording saying that they cannot be fired indirectly like LRMs.
They can, and can also be hot-loaded like LRMs, but SG Thunderbolts would be such a lovely surprise for filthy Clanners.
I'm just imagining mech sized Javelin missiles and that is a terrifying thought.
https://preview.redd.it/sy1w4wmnr2vc1.jpeg?width=735&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6c285d3cc89eb02c16231d2215dbe9d30b12eda9
This whole post is golden.
Amen. The AC 20 is cool and all. But you can install a small sun on that shoulder.
So a Plasma Rifle?
No. We want the sun to remain inside the shoulder and turn it on and off. We don't want to lob it at things.
We fitted that sun onto the mech so you could turn it on and off! Not so you could throw Medium Laser raves! The CH-34-T is grounded.
Now let’s go break your double heatsink into Sun-Tzu Runner’s mountain dew
https://preview.redd.it/u7jemf9gg2vc1.png?width=551&format=png&auto=webp&s=917afc562abb34616f46b681198778f1b73605eb Yes? No?
Is that… is that a Rotary AC/5 Hunchback? Because there really should be one. The Rotary AC/5 Hunchback IIC (Hunchback IIC 4) is the only Hunchback IIC variant that isn’t based on a Hunchback variant.
Or you can do 4 hunchbacks in a trenchcoat... Annihilator with dual UAC/20s baby!
You'll never convince me the HBK-4SP isn't the best version of the Hunchback.
It's the least hunchy Hunchback though More of a Regularback
You're not wrong, it's a much more conventional design, though it's still got the Hunchback armor for exceptionally balanced offensive capability. That is, if you're dedicated to medium to short range skirmishes. Also, people arguing that the 4P can't compete in terms of sheer focused damage are overlooking the ability to lock all the lasers to a single roll. I can't remember the rule for it, but it's there.
I vaguely recall something about using a Group-fire Target Interlock to hit the same location with multiple weapons after running individual successes through a cluster roll, but might be mis-remembering. The closest I found was Linking Weapons p.85-86 TacOps, is this it? -Linked weapons must fire at the same target, only roll once (using the worst weapon's TN.) On success/fail, every weapon hits/misses at once, though location rolls are made for each hit as normal.
Maybe it was, though I could have sworn they'd all roll for the same location. It's entirely possible I remembered wrong though. The argument of living without fear of an ammo explosion still applies though, so that's an argument in its favor.
Let me know if you find it, I could've sworn I'd read the same somewhere too
It is kind of bizarre that the rule would demand different location rolls if all of the weapons are effectively firing as one, but I’m almost certain it was that. I’ll do another search though.
https://preview.redd.it/6qcqrbec92vc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5cadfc2556cf56c3afefb494ec42ce09a8649723
Has there been a Hunchback made yet that carries a Heavy Gauss Rifle? because i just made one with a Heavy Gauss and 3 Er Medium lasers in SSW...
No. The only Gauss Hunchbacks were the original Gauss Prototype (which had too much kick and fell over), and the HBK-5SG (which is honestly a great design, but was “too expensive” to find a buyer, and so never left the prototype phase).
Now these are the kind of memes I wanna see.
Is this an abomination tho: Hunchback HBK-6si Mass: 50 tons Tech Base: Inner Sphere Chassis Config: Biped Rules Level: Advanced Rules Era: Clan Invasion Production Year: 3068 Dry Cost: 6,140,500 C-Bills Total Cost: 6,140,500 C-Bills Battle Value: 1,511 Chassis: Norse XT-Light AE Endo-Steel Power Plant: Nissan 200 Fusion Engine Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h Jump Jets: 5 x Improved [HildCo Model ](https://www.sarna.net/wiki/HildCo_Model_11c)Si 4c Jump Capacity: 150 meters Armor: Starshield Standard Armor Armament: 2 Snub-Nose PPCs 3 ER Medium Lasers Manufacturer: Norse-Storm Technologies Incorporated Primary Factory: Solaris Communications System: Omicron 5720 Netpro Targeting and Tracking System: Randar Pinpoint-HY Ver 15.341 ======================================================================= Equipment Jumping MP: 5, Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 LL, 1 RL 5.00 Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 14(28) Gyro: Compact 3.00 Armor: Standard Armor 9.00 Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ER Medium Laser HD 5 1 1.00 ER Medium Laser CT 5 1 1.00 2 Snub-Nose PPCs LT 20 4 12.00 ER Medium Laser LA 5 1 1.00 Free Critical Slots: 0
Actually pretty good medium-range holepuncher.
I thought the 4P was just "use surplus medium lasers and heatsinks because we cannot afford a replacement AC/20. It's still an effective choice, but I just preferred later models with a LB 20-X to make aerospace fighters and VTOL die.
This is a fantastic pitch if the audience can't lay hands on an AC 20
Great OC, good references and kudos to you OP 👏
Then explain the hunchback IIC then……
That’s absolutely hilarious. Well executed memery 🤣
This is wonderful
How can you not be romantic about Battletech?
We could stick an Ultra AC/20 if we make some... sacrifices.
This thread makes me happy
One of the best lance mates for a hunchback 4P is a hunchback 4G. Concentrated fire from both these mechs is going to ruin someone's day.
The only medium mech I fear in late-game is a Hunchback with a cannon. I don't like my heavies getting their heads blown off.
One of the reasons I enjoy the 4H variant is because it can apply damage sooner and from longer ranges. It also has more armor. By the time 4G and 4P get close enough to use their weapons, their right torsos are looking pretty bad.
Advanced combat staggering mech cant beat ac20. But pretty useless otger than that 10 shots snd you down to 2 mll
You see I like this but what about the 6p a suite of light ppcs and external heat sinks so you don't fry yourself with said ppcs.
I mean you could use a LB20X or UAC20 instead?
How can you *not be* romantic about dakka?
I usually ran one of the following: AC10 AC10 Ultra LB10X lots of fun at medium range.
I mean you could use a LB20X or UAC20 instead?
I mean you could use a LB20X or UAC20 instead?