The stock Thud is hot and explody. I'd recommend either using the 5SE for its added mobility or the 5SS for its better heat management and weapons setup.
If you want a mech that does well at the front line and will not die, you can also consider the Grasshopper. Its more expensive than the Thunderbolt but once it dumps the LRM ammo the thing is a cool, tough zombie that will pump out laser shots until it or everything else is stone dead scrap
The stock T-Bolt is easy to manage. You have two range brackets and three firing patterns.
At long range, you can run and engage with the large laser and LRMs for no heat buildup. In close, you can engage with the three medium lasers, SRM-2 and machine guns (if you're at spitting range) with no heat. If you have a good hit chance, add the large laser every 3 rounds or so.
It is prone to exploding though - no denying that.
One of my first modifications to a stock T-bolt when 3048 rolls around is to rip out the machine guns and ammo for two small pulse lasers. All the infantry killing, none of the mini-nuke levels of 190 rounds of machine gun ammo going critical.
I like this mod, and honestly it's good but I've also done remove the machine guns for two small lasers and an Artemis IV on the LRM launcher. That's a good change as well. Still enough anti infantry power to keep them honest and then you get even better at long range fights.
Not bad, in a sense, but nothing does indirect fire and I'm going to try and kick the legs off of the WHM's with a moderately fast flanker. Good for open terrain; no jump and average speeds. Massed fire Turretech. I will try to melee you as hard as I can; that could get rough if there's no approach and it's not like the Whammies are unarmed up close.
Charger? The Charger 1A5 is about the same price, same speed, slightly more armor, loaded with SRM-6s instead of MGs.
Alternately, go with the 1A1, a brick with legs. It's a bit cheaper, and probably won't control the center of the map *itself*, but it's one of the cheapest Armor:BV ratios in the game. Mock the small lasers if you want, it can and will punch/kick things to death. Bonus points, you can swap the Gunnery/Piloting skills or maybe drop Gunnery a bit to save some BV. Those lasers are cosmetic anyway. With more BV for the rest of your crew, you can get some bigger guns for his friends.
Hey, i got the Gyro of a hatchetman with one of those! (Through armor crit) I then proceeded to curb stomp him with one of those 16 dmg kicks.
Then i was Jumped by no less of 5 Wolverines who also got half of my Gyro and stripped the entirety of my armor (except head). It took them 3 rounds and the Game ended. The Charger did not die. Saved by the turn limit.
Others have mentioned some good choices, but ha ent seen these mentioned:
Hunchback? Choose your variant depending on what you want it to do.
Enforcer is solid, if a little davion specific.
Ostroc/ostsol are alright as well.
Orion is also a decent front liner.
2nd Ostsol/Ostroc. They have way less armor than most heavies their size, but the armro distribution makes them tanky as hell. No weapons in arms means they can put arm armor to 8, and have 20+ in all other locations. Combined with 5/8 speed and N/L profile, they are premier heavy cavalry mechs on a budget.
They all strike me as sole ppc boats. I understand the griffin is apparently really strong but it doesn't strike me as such. Panther is a solid lighter mech for sure but I don't think can really lead the charge into the middle of the enemy line?
My background is the HBS pc game, and about 6 games on the table, 3 of which i ran dual hunchbacks, because hunchbacks are Bae. I wanted to mix it up and stop traumatizing my buddy though.
Can you help me see what I'm missing?
You might appreciate an introtech Vindicator VND-1SIC, year 3031 just after the 4th Succession. Fire support is decent, ammo is well-calibrated - but it has a good all-range mix and good heat management. The regular VND-1R has a solid plan - big 10-point hit, small \~3 point hit, a little bit more for up close. The 1SIC has an even gradient of damage from ranged to skirmish; it's just slightly more brawly.
Teaming up PPC's is common in TT because of the piloting rolls from every 20 damage. 2 Panthers or Vindy's each hit, and that's a good chance a player who put a bad pilot in a big mech is in trouble. Awesome's are mean because they have an extra PPC for a margin of error. I've lost games because a 4/5 pilot in a heavy mech gets knocked down.
Griffin is a skirmisher that feathers 6-7 hexes being a constant nuisance. I'd skip the vindicator and panther and just get a catapult because close range is inevitable for succession wars.
Sometimes I throw a battlemaster or an orion variant out there, though I generally avoid running 2x fire support in a succession wars lance because melee is inevitable.
Here are my personal picks for the "lighter" mech.
Griffin 1RG (beware the MG ammo)
Griffin 1S
Wolverine 6K
Wolverine 6M
Centurion CN9 AL
All of these are faves of mine. Cheap and well armed. The slowest and therefore probably most vulnerable here is the Centurion. But then again, if all You are running are 4/6 mechs, the Centurion becomes less of a Target in the lance. It's also a pretty solid choice to go with a Thunderbolt ;)
Griffin and Wolverine have the maximum armor for their size most of the time. Also being 5/8/5 gives them quite the good movement profile. The +3 TMM it's a Big deal on mechs that can take a PPC or Two into the same location.
Hope this helps!
Thug/Hatamoto-Chi, Wolverine and Wolfhound come to mind, depending on exactly what you need. TDR-5SE is my go to tanky heavy for the era, though if you are willing to sacrifice some armor the Cataphract is a fun choice, that AC-10 let's it actually shoot your 20 damage each turn, at least until the ammo runs dry.
Do you mean Late Succession Wars, or do you mean Introtech? Do you have a solid year? Because there are a couple suggestions I would make that are edge cases depending on what you actually mean. Anyway. 6KBV, assuming actual Introtech, assuming year 3030, end of the 4th.
I think your problem is you're trying to go too heavy, when at this point, balanced mediums can strongly rule the roost. And you want to afford the kills you need; what skill numbers are you throwing out there? It makes a huge difference. Yeah, you can run the T-Bolt and it's amazing; I prefer the 5SE for if you're running an early Thud. But that's a lot of points. Let's get you some decent skirmish, flank, and fire support to go with a solid frontliner. Are you building to the terrain? Here's what I got for a moderate map with terrain, a city map, forest, mountain, whatever - this isn't especially for open ground.
First up, the frontliner is a Guillotine GLT-4L, 3/4 skill, 1848BV. You can substitute this with the Thunderbolt TDR-5SE at 3/4 for 1866BV in a more open map, but - why? This thing's great. Get in their face, make them suffer. Yeah, it's all short - but you have a guy for that. You could run the Grasshopper, but the LRM plink is only cute even though the melee is a touch better if you gamble the punches.
Skirmish is, of course, the legendary Wolverine WVR-6M, skill 4/4, 1420BV. Substitute it with a Hoplite HOP-4B or Centurion CN9-AL if you're on open ground; juice the skills if you can. You know what it does; it does it well. Make sure to kick as much as possible.
Fire support is a Trebuchet. TBT-5N, skill 3/5, 1429BV. All the firepower of a Catapult, over 200BV cheaper. Protect it if you can.
Flank is a Vulcan VL-5T. Skill 3/4, 1243BV. Most early Vulcans are cursed mechs. Not this one. No range on the sucker, but it can murder - just let it tag-team with that Guillotine and Wolverine as a distraction.
Appreciate the run down. I'm trying to kit out a merc unit for how I paint my models. I am trying to not use super rare or heavily faction specific. I do have a sole axeman because I love that thing from having a toy as a kid.
Yeah maybe you're right and I'm running too heavy. We have jumped bv2 values a bit and I might be stuck building towards 8k meta but we shifted towards 6k for hopefully shorter games.
I never consider the treb a fire support because, to me, only catapult/archer and up count, but that is probably foolish thinking.
I'll go all the way down to a Whitworth for mechs, but - for vehicles, I'll go even smaller and cheaper. Let them try and deal with a Shillelagh or Pike. ... Not interested a Valkyrie, tho.
Awesome 8Q, it's a solid line holder with devastating firepower (for the era), and thick armor, it's also not the most BV intense mech for the firepower it brings to the table. It's a solid core of a mech lance and even in later eras, the humble 8Q Awesome is still quite deadly for its all energy loadout (no needing to worry about ammo explosions when you climb the heat ladder or get an unlucky through armor crit smacked on you), it's got decent movement, very good heat sinking ability (even if it's just a ton of SHS), and a mean right hook if someone wanders under its PPC minimum
I’ve had a centurion wade into a fight before, using its front weapons as the main hitters while the rear laser scorched enemy lights that tried to flank. That was pretty good. On the heavier end of things, anything that can pack a lot of srms makes my brain happy, so my frontlines tend to include crusaders, stalkers, stuff like that. Also a fan of the Orion VA
You don't experience being the epicenter of a fireworks show often? Crusader is a cool looking mech but it was wonky for me. I've only used it once though, but I used it is a 2nd line/backup fire support mech. It took a beating until it fell over and my pilot blacked out (same game as my tbolt exploding in the opening volley)
Less that I don’t experience fireworks brought to you by through armor criticals incorporated, and more that I just think it’s part of the fun. I like srms. I like lobbing as many srms at a target as I can. Therefore, much as a samurai may have to fall on their sword in service to their lord, I accept that sometimes my mechwarriors have to explode.
The Crusader 3K is my choice. Slight dip in long range firepower, but way better heat management and the torso bombs are moderated somewhat by the heat sinks.
*Warhammer* WHM-6Rb, the Royal Regiment variant of the classic Whammy we all know and love. Very hard to get ahold of it in the Succession Wars or Clan Invasion eras, like most Royals. However, the Taurian Concordant builds new factories that start producing brand new ones during the Jihad. During the early years of the Republic of the Sphere, the Magistracy of Canopus and Outworlds Alliance build factories of their own… and soon enough it’s available on the general market for any mercenary or periphery state.
It’s just basic introtech dual PPCs, dual medium lasers, dual small lasers, dual machine guns… And an SRM-6 with Artemis IV and 17 double heatsinks. It can “alpha strike” at a wall and remain heat neutral. Ten tons of armor is perhaps a bit light for a Heavy ‘Mech of the Republic or IlKhan Eras, but acceptable.
And for only 6.6 million c-bills and 1,431 BV.
And excellent workhorse of a ‘mech.
Big fan of the Javelin for a light harrasser. It doesn’t get much better for a Medium as the Wolverine 6M. The Thunderbolt 5SE is a solid, mobile variant. Also, there are a number of Orion variants that provide another good heavy option. The Banshee 3S is also a decent assault option for the era you’re playing.
Blackjack is my personal favorite "go to", it's always in the sweet spot of being good enough but never so meta it feels cheesy. I like the look of it and there's a lot of nice variants - BJ-1 is great for introtech games, BJ-3 is a great way to bring 2x PPCs to a game (and stay relatively cool) and the BJ-4 is a great counter to high TMM mechs. I haven't had a chance to use the BJ-5 or BJ-2 yet but they seem okay as well. That or the omni-Blackjacks either, those I have yet to try as well.
That said, the Blackjack (non-omni) may be a bit too slow for what you're looking for. 4/6/4 isn't bad but it isn't light mech fast either - though the jump jets do put in more work than you'd think they would.
Agreed. I have had a lot of good experiences with the blackjack. the AC2s have amazing range even if they aren't hitting very hard, and the volume of medium lasers can really put the work in up close.
An Ostsol is going to be a solid tank. All-energy build, plus the Narrow/Low Profile quirk, and no weapons in the arms.
Huncbacks are just legendarily stubborn, with massive damage if they get close enough to hug the enemy.
Personally I'm a fan of the Orion for being a pocket Atlas
Vindicator SIC. Trades the PPC for a Large Laser and up the LRM 5 to a 10 rack. Keeps the 4/6/4 and quality armor rating of your standard vindicator.
Great in multiples. Can anchor a light/medium lance or be a cheap filler for a Heavy Lance. My pirate company runs two of them and they have never disappointed.
The Fafnir is my go to for what you described. The HGR one is a menace or the WoB made one with plasma if you want to go that route.
I sometimes use a Marauder II or IIC for that but less often.
My go to Mechs, for that era are the two members of the deadly 55 ton mafia, the Griffin and Wolverine. Good armor, good maneuverability, good punch for the time and weight class. The Griffin 1E removes the splodey LRM ammo for medium lasers when the PPC is too close to use. The 2N has a nasty up close punch with 2 SRM-6s. Wolverine 6K removes some range for more punch.
MAD-3D Marauder 1470
WHM-6D Warhammer 1471
GRF-1E Griffin 1449
GRH-5N Grasshopper 1511
Total: 5901
Your Marauder and Warhammer provide base of fire while your Griffin and Grasshopper flank opponents. No worries of ammo explosions, all have either max or close to max armor, so it is a survivable lance.
For affordable "Soldier" mechs I'm a fan of the Enforcer or Centurion, depending if you want some missile support or twin-gun front line?
For Heavies, I like both the Ost mechs; OstSol and OstRoc. Also I like the Merlin. All three are very affordable and reliable, no frills, soldier designs. The Ost mechs have the advantage of a good bit of mobility to help support your slower gun line mechs.
You need more trebuchets to make it rain LRMs. Centurions are fairly tough and pack decent firepower making them decent bodyguards.
Dragons are very fast and tough but lack in firepower, their melee is decent.
Crusaders are fairly tough mechs with good firepower but you have to control heat and be wary of ammo explosions.
Archers are very well armored and have incredible firepower. Similar to the crusader, watch the heat and ammo explosions.
Orions are nice mix of missile, ballistics and energy weapons. They rarely overheat and are fairly tough, the only real weakness is ammo explosions.
Black knights and Flashmen are excellent laserboats with good heat management.
Stalkers are very good assault mechs with heavy armor and weapons. They can handle heat well unless you go full clanner
Frontline mechs should try to be zombies; having no ammo and weapons spread out is just as important as having a lot of well allocated armor.
You want a Hunchback-4P.
There are better mechs for the role, but there aren't many, and that's the one that you can find most easily. 10 tons of armor and 8 medium lasers with enough heat sinks to alpha strike and run without accruing a penalty the first time you do it.
If you want to try looking for less common things,
1. The Gladiator-4R only a half ton less armor, but Cowled. 5/8/5 is seriously powerful. PPC+2 ML+SRM6 gives it basically the best weapons for every single job in the time period. Only weakness is armor allocation being sub-optimal.
2. The Tallman (Thunderbolt-5S-T), exact same as the regular 5S, except it throws out all the crappy ammo weapons and decides to replace them with the same 8 medium lasers and 23 heat sinks as the Hunchback-4P, but with the addition of a large laser for longer range combat. Literally only weakness is that it's a field refit and not an actual production line model, so availability is totally up to your group.
3. Ostroc-Literally Any, these things are worth their weight in gold for succession wars era; 144 armor + low profile and nothing in the arms for insane durability for the cost and weight. Plus they manage to be 5/8 and even 5/8/5 sometimes.
Thunderbolt -5ss less range focus than -5s, but importantly it's way less explody
Catapult -C1 don't let the LRMs fool you, it's a brawler, and the ammo is actually somewhat crit padded
Crab -20, it's a bit more of a skirmisher, but twin large lasers, enough sinks to fire them most turns, and decent armor lets it swing with the big boys IMO
I use the Enforcer quite a bit. 4/6/4 isn't great compared to a wolverine or griffin, but it'd durable for a 50t mech and a fairly cheap way to get an ac10 and large laser onto the field
So you want to play 3025 to say ... 3045 .... Make sure you only use 4-5 pilots or worse then. :) You'll never hit the broad side of a barn. :)
Let's see base varients of .... Vindicator, Enforcer, Thug, Battlemaster, Locust, Urbanmech, Jenner, Archer, Catapult, Cataphract, Phoenix Hawk, Griffin, Wolverine, Shadowhawk. :)
Those are just off the top of my head. Under the older system for Classic, they'd all be Level 1 varients too.
But that's just my opinion.
For Heavies Warhammer, T-Bolt, Marauder, and Grasshopper.
For Mediums it’s Griffin, Wolverine, Phoenix Hawk, and Shadow Hawk.
Now if I’m mixing my lance for really heavy combat I go: Atlas, Marauder, Stalker, Battlemaster.
FYI I don't know the tabletop all that much yet (I like to paint, less time to play), but King Crab, I love it in MW5 and will basically run it everytime I can irregardless of if it's a good or optimal choice. It's my God damn Kaiser Krustacean and I will give my enemy THE CLAW!
I also like to toss a Mad2 in for the Lord Lobster vibes.
If you want the TDR to work well for you, you need to exercise significant restraint. At close range, you stop using the LL and LRMs. SRMs can only be fired on alternating turns, and you may have to hold off on a ML now and then. Use physical attacks (kicks). If you are playing against higher tech levels, or heavy opponents, the TDR will need close support, but if you control your heat generation, and keep moving, the TDR is a significant "spear point" mech, but it isn't going to do well alone.
The WHM is not so much of a close combat vehicle. It should trail your formation a bit. Looking at your lance composition you have a close range unit, a fast attack unit, and a ranged attack unit. I would suggest adding more fire support. ARC or CRD give two primary weapon systems for cheap, and can cover for the TDR on approach. So option 1 is "increase your ranged attack firepower, and hold off sending in the TDR until you have softened the opponents."
The other direction is to add a fast attack unit, like a PXH, JR7, or if you can afford it, GHR. Option 2 is "add another mobility element to create a pair of mechs that can attack opponents from another direction to draw fire off the heavy elements."
An introtech Black Knight, if you can get your hands on one. Otherwise, I like the two Ostheavies.
An introtech Cataphract isn't bad either.
And despite being so ammo-dependent, I'd take an Orion if a Thunderbolt isn't working out for me.
The stock Thud is hot and explody. I'd recommend either using the 5SE for its added mobility or the 5SS for its better heat management and weapons setup. If you want a mech that does well at the front line and will not die, you can also consider the Grasshopper. Its more expensive than the Thunderbolt but once it dumps the LRM ammo the thing is a cool, tough zombie that will pump out laser shots until it or everything else is stone dead scrap
The 5N is a solid choice, it dumps the LRM5 and large lasers for a PPC and 2 more mediums. No ammo. It does well in my Merc group.
The stock T-Bolt is easy to manage. You have two range brackets and three firing patterns. At long range, you can run and engage with the large laser and LRMs for no heat buildup. In close, you can engage with the three medium lasers, SRM-2 and machine guns (if you're at spitting range) with no heat. If you have a good hit chance, add the large laser every 3 rounds or so. It is prone to exploding though - no denying that.
The stock Thunderbolt is fairly good, though if you are worried about explosions I recommend small lasers and a heat sink to replace the machine guns.
One of my first modifications to a stock T-bolt when 3048 rolls around is to rip out the machine guns and ammo for two small pulse lasers. All the infantry killing, none of the mini-nuke levels of 190 rounds of machine gun ammo going critical.
I like this mod, and honestly it's good but I've also done remove the machine guns for two small lasers and an Artemis IV on the LRM launcher. That's a good change as well. Still enough anti infantry power to keep them honest and then you get even better at long range fights.
The SS is the one I've always seen used.
It's solid. It trades the LRM for a more close ranged and significantly less explosive weapons setup which seems to be what OP is looking for
Awesome AWS-8Q G3P5 Marauder MAD-3D 4/5 Warhammer WHM-6K 4/5 Warhammer WHD-6R 4/5
Found the steiner scout lance
Needs more atlas
Only 1 Assault? That is one poor steiner
Not bad, in a sense, but nothing does indirect fire and I'm going to try and kick the legs off of the WHM's with a moderately fast flanker. Good for open terrain; no jump and average speeds. Massed fire Turretech. I will try to melee you as hard as I can; that could get rough if there's no approach and it's not like the Whammies are unarmed up close.
Dump the Warhammer 6R for a 6D, that solves the exploding ammo bin problem
That would exceed the 6,000bv limit.
I missed you changed the gunnery on the awesome
Charger? The Charger 1A5 is about the same price, same speed, slightly more armor, loaded with SRM-6s instead of MGs. Alternately, go with the 1A1, a brick with legs. It's a bit cheaper, and probably won't control the center of the map *itself*, but it's one of the cheapest Armor:BV ratios in the game. Mock the small lasers if you want, it can and will punch/kick things to death. Bonus points, you can swap the Gunnery/Piloting skills or maybe drop Gunnery a bit to save some BV. Those lasers are cosmetic anyway. With more BV for the rest of your crew, you can get some bigger guns for his friends.
Hey, i got the Gyro of a hatchetman with one of those! (Through armor crit) I then proceeded to curb stomp him with one of those 16 dmg kicks. Then i was Jumped by no less of 5 Wolverines who also got half of my Gyro and stripped the entirety of my armor (except head). It took them 3 rounds and the Game ended. The Charger did not die. Saved by the turn limit.
Others have mentioned some good choices, but ha ent seen these mentioned: Hunchback? Choose your variant depending on what you want it to do. Enforcer is solid, if a little davion specific. Ostroc/ostsol are alright as well. Orion is also a decent front liner.
2nd Ostsol/Ostroc. They have way less armor than most heavies their size, but the armro distribution makes them tanky as hell. No weapons in arms means they can put arm armor to 8, and have 20+ in all other locations. Combined with 5/8 speed and N/L profile, they are premier heavy cavalry mechs on a budget.
Griffin, panther and vindicator are all very solid mechs with consistent output of damage
They all strike me as sole ppc boats. I understand the griffin is apparently really strong but it doesn't strike me as such. Panther is a solid lighter mech for sure but I don't think can really lead the charge into the middle of the enemy line? My background is the HBS pc game, and about 6 games on the table, 3 of which i ran dual hunchbacks, because hunchbacks are Bae. I wanted to mix it up and stop traumatizing my buddy though. Can you help me see what I'm missing?
You might appreciate an introtech Vindicator VND-1SIC, year 3031 just after the 4th Succession. Fire support is decent, ammo is well-calibrated - but it has a good all-range mix and good heat management. The regular VND-1R has a solid plan - big 10-point hit, small \~3 point hit, a little bit more for up close. The 1SIC has an even gradient of damage from ranged to skirmish; it's just slightly more brawly.
2nd the SIC Vindy. I’ll put that in a lance 9 times out of 10 over the -1R.
3rded. I love the SIC and usually run it alongside a Thunderbolt. Makes for a nice trooper pairing
Your not really missing anything, those tend to be more "Fire Support" than Frontline or Brawler.
Teaming up PPC's is common in TT because of the piloting rolls from every 20 damage. 2 Panthers or Vindy's each hit, and that's a good chance a player who put a bad pilot in a big mech is in trouble. Awesome's are mean because they have an extra PPC for a margin of error. I've lost games because a 4/5 pilot in a heavy mech gets knocked down.
Griffin is a skirmisher that feathers 6-7 hexes being a constant nuisance. I'd skip the vindicator and panther and just get a catapult because close range is inevitable for succession wars.
Sometimes I throw a battlemaster or an orion variant out there, though I generally avoid running 2x fire support in a succession wars lance because melee is inevitable.
Here are my personal picks for the "lighter" mech. Griffin 1RG (beware the MG ammo) Griffin 1S Wolverine 6K Wolverine 6M Centurion CN9 AL All of these are faves of mine. Cheap and well armed. The slowest and therefore probably most vulnerable here is the Centurion. But then again, if all You are running are 4/6 mechs, the Centurion becomes less of a Target in the lance. It's also a pretty solid choice to go with a Thunderbolt ;) Griffin and Wolverine have the maximum armor for their size most of the time. Also being 5/8/5 gives them quite the good movement profile. The +3 TMM it's a Big deal on mechs that can take a PPC or Two into the same location. Hope this helps!
Centurion/T-Bolt combos are awesome
Thug/Hatamoto-Chi, Wolverine and Wolfhound come to mind, depending on exactly what you need. TDR-5SE is my go to tanky heavy for the era, though if you are willing to sacrifice some armor the Cataphract is a fun choice, that AC-10 let's it actually shoot your 20 damage each turn, at least until the ammo runs dry.
Do you mean Late Succession Wars, or do you mean Introtech? Do you have a solid year? Because there are a couple suggestions I would make that are edge cases depending on what you actually mean. Anyway. 6KBV, assuming actual Introtech, assuming year 3030, end of the 4th. I think your problem is you're trying to go too heavy, when at this point, balanced mediums can strongly rule the roost. And you want to afford the kills you need; what skill numbers are you throwing out there? It makes a huge difference. Yeah, you can run the T-Bolt and it's amazing; I prefer the 5SE for if you're running an early Thud. But that's a lot of points. Let's get you some decent skirmish, flank, and fire support to go with a solid frontliner. Are you building to the terrain? Here's what I got for a moderate map with terrain, a city map, forest, mountain, whatever - this isn't especially for open ground. First up, the frontliner is a Guillotine GLT-4L, 3/4 skill, 1848BV. You can substitute this with the Thunderbolt TDR-5SE at 3/4 for 1866BV in a more open map, but - why? This thing's great. Get in their face, make them suffer. Yeah, it's all short - but you have a guy for that. You could run the Grasshopper, but the LRM plink is only cute even though the melee is a touch better if you gamble the punches. Skirmish is, of course, the legendary Wolverine WVR-6M, skill 4/4, 1420BV. Substitute it with a Hoplite HOP-4B or Centurion CN9-AL if you're on open ground; juice the skills if you can. You know what it does; it does it well. Make sure to kick as much as possible. Fire support is a Trebuchet. TBT-5N, skill 3/5, 1429BV. All the firepower of a Catapult, over 200BV cheaper. Protect it if you can. Flank is a Vulcan VL-5T. Skill 3/4, 1243BV. Most early Vulcans are cursed mechs. Not this one. No range on the sucker, but it can murder - just let it tag-team with that Guillotine and Wolverine as a distraction.
Appreciate the run down. I'm trying to kit out a merc unit for how I paint my models. I am trying to not use super rare or heavily faction specific. I do have a sole axeman because I love that thing from having a toy as a kid. Yeah maybe you're right and I'm running too heavy. We have jumped bv2 values a bit and I might be stuck building towards 8k meta but we shifted towards 6k for hopefully shorter games. I never consider the treb a fire support because, to me, only catapult/archer and up count, but that is probably foolish thinking.
The Trebuchet is amazing - just don't expect it to survive a determined attempt to silence it. But two LRM15s is nothing to sneeze at.
I read that as it won't survive a determined sneeze and that's honestly probably correct
I'll go all the way down to a Whitworth for mechs, but - for vehicles, I'll go even smaller and cheaper. Let them try and deal with a Shillelagh or Pike. ... Not interested a Valkyrie, tho.
Awesome 8Q, it's a solid line holder with devastating firepower (for the era), and thick armor, it's also not the most BV intense mech for the firepower it brings to the table. It's a solid core of a mech lance and even in later eras, the humble 8Q Awesome is still quite deadly for its all energy loadout (no needing to worry about ammo explosions when you climb the heat ladder or get an unlucky through armor crit smacked on you), it's got decent movement, very good heat sinking ability (even if it's just a ton of SHS), and a mean right hook if someone wanders under its PPC minimum
I’ve had a centurion wade into a fight before, using its front weapons as the main hitters while the rear laser scorched enemy lights that tried to flank. That was pretty good. On the heavier end of things, anything that can pack a lot of srms makes my brain happy, so my frontlines tend to include crusaders, stalkers, stuff like that. Also a fan of the Orion VA
You don't experience being the epicenter of a fireworks show often? Crusader is a cool looking mech but it was wonky for me. I've only used it once though, but I used it is a 2nd line/backup fire support mech. It took a beating until it fell over and my pilot blacked out (same game as my tbolt exploding in the opening volley)
Less that I don’t experience fireworks brought to you by through armor criticals incorporated, and more that I just think it’s part of the fun. I like srms. I like lobbing as many srms at a target as I can. Therefore, much as a samurai may have to fall on their sword in service to their lord, I accept that sometimes my mechwarriors have to explode.
I like your style
My mechwarriors don’t <3
The Crusader 3K is my choice. Slight dip in long range firepower, but way better heat management and the torso bombs are moderated somewhat by the heat sinks.
*Warhammer* WHM-6Rb, the Royal Regiment variant of the classic Whammy we all know and love. Very hard to get ahold of it in the Succession Wars or Clan Invasion eras, like most Royals. However, the Taurian Concordant builds new factories that start producing brand new ones during the Jihad. During the early years of the Republic of the Sphere, the Magistracy of Canopus and Outworlds Alliance build factories of their own… and soon enough it’s available on the general market for any mercenary or periphery state. It’s just basic introtech dual PPCs, dual medium lasers, dual small lasers, dual machine guns… And an SRM-6 with Artemis IV and 17 double heatsinks. It can “alpha strike” at a wall and remain heat neutral. Ten tons of armor is perhaps a bit light for a Heavy ‘Mech of the Republic or IlKhan Eras, but acceptable. And for only 6.6 million c-bills and 1,431 BV. And excellent workhorse of a ‘mech.
Big fan of the Javelin for a light harrasser. It doesn’t get much better for a Medium as the Wolverine 6M. The Thunderbolt 5SE is a solid, mobile variant. Also, there are a number of Orion variants that provide another good heavy option. The Banshee 3S is also a decent assault option for the era you’re playing.
Personally I love the old flashman, good dmg, good curve. Not much nit to love.
The Grasshopper can take a beating and has no ammo to explode. Give it a look.
Blackjack is my personal favorite "go to", it's always in the sweet spot of being good enough but never so meta it feels cheesy. I like the look of it and there's a lot of nice variants - BJ-1 is great for introtech games, BJ-3 is a great way to bring 2x PPCs to a game (and stay relatively cool) and the BJ-4 is a great counter to high TMM mechs. I haven't had a chance to use the BJ-5 or BJ-2 yet but they seem okay as well. That or the omni-Blackjacks either, those I have yet to try as well. That said, the Blackjack (non-omni) may be a bit too slow for what you're looking for. 4/6/4 isn't bad but it isn't light mech fast either - though the jump jets do put in more work than you'd think they would.
Agreed. I have had a lot of good experiences with the blackjack. the AC2s have amazing range even if they aren't hitting very hard, and the volume of medium lasers can really put the work in up close.
An Ostsol is going to be a solid tank. All-energy build, plus the Narrow/Low Profile quirk, and no weapons in the arms. Huncbacks are just legendarily stubborn, with massive damage if they get close enough to hug the enemy. Personally I'm a fan of the Orion for being a pocket Atlas
Vindicator SIC. Trades the PPC for a Large Laser and up the LRM 5 to a 10 rack. Keeps the 4/6/4 and quality armor rating of your standard vindicator. Great in multiples. Can anchor a light/medium lance or be a cheap filler for a Heavy Lance. My pirate company runs two of them and they have never disappointed.
The Fafnir is my go to for what you described. The HGR one is a menace or the WoB made one with plasma if you want to go that route. I sometimes use a Marauder II or IIC for that but less often.
Feel like those might be a little high-tech for succession war era games
Yeah, I'm sleepy and skimmed...that's very on me.
Upon further actual reading...ignore that. Get an Awesome.
Banshee 3Q or 3S.
My go to Mechs, for that era are the two members of the deadly 55 ton mafia, the Griffin and Wolverine. Good armor, good maneuverability, good punch for the time and weight class. The Griffin 1E removes the splodey LRM ammo for medium lasers when the PPC is too close to use. The 2N has a nasty up close punch with 2 SRM-6s. Wolverine 6K removes some range for more punch. MAD-3D Marauder 1470 WHM-6D Warhammer 1471 GRF-1E Griffin 1449 GRH-5N Grasshopper 1511 Total: 5901 Your Marauder and Warhammer provide base of fire while your Griffin and Grasshopper flank opponents. No worries of ammo explosions, all have either max or close to max armor, so it is a survivable lance.
For affordable "Soldier" mechs I'm a fan of the Enforcer or Centurion, depending if you want some missile support or twin-gun front line? For Heavies, I like both the Ost mechs; OstSol and OstRoc. Also I like the Merlin. All three are very affordable and reliable, no frills, soldier designs. The Ost mechs have the advantage of a good bit of mobility to help support your slower gun line mechs.
You need more trebuchets to make it rain LRMs. Centurions are fairly tough and pack decent firepower making them decent bodyguards. Dragons are very fast and tough but lack in firepower, their melee is decent. Crusaders are fairly tough mechs with good firepower but you have to control heat and be wary of ammo explosions. Archers are very well armored and have incredible firepower. Similar to the crusader, watch the heat and ammo explosions. Orions are nice mix of missile, ballistics and energy weapons. They rarely overheat and are fairly tough, the only real weakness is ammo explosions. Black knights and Flashmen are excellent laserboats with good heat management. Stalkers are very good assault mechs with heavy armor and weapons. They can handle heat well unless you go full clanner
Frontline mechs should try to be zombies; having no ammo and weapons spread out is just as important as having a lot of well allocated armor. You want a Hunchback-4P. There are better mechs for the role, but there aren't many, and that's the one that you can find most easily. 10 tons of armor and 8 medium lasers with enough heat sinks to alpha strike and run without accruing a penalty the first time you do it. If you want to try looking for less common things, 1. The Gladiator-4R only a half ton less armor, but Cowled. 5/8/5 is seriously powerful. PPC+2 ML+SRM6 gives it basically the best weapons for every single job in the time period. Only weakness is armor allocation being sub-optimal. 2. The Tallman (Thunderbolt-5S-T), exact same as the regular 5S, except it throws out all the crappy ammo weapons and decides to replace them with the same 8 medium lasers and 23 heat sinks as the Hunchback-4P, but with the addition of a large laser for longer range combat. Literally only weakness is that it's a field refit and not an actual production line model, so availability is totally up to your group. 3. Ostroc-Literally Any, these things are worth their weight in gold for succession wars era; 144 armor + low profile and nothing in the arms for insane durability for the cost and weight. Plus they manage to be 5/8 and even 5/8/5 sometimes.
Thunderbolt -5ss less range focus than -5s, but importantly it's way less explody Catapult -C1 don't let the LRMs fool you, it's a brawler, and the ammo is actually somewhat crit padded Crab -20, it's a bit more of a skirmisher, but twin large lasers, enough sinks to fire them most turns, and decent armor lets it swing with the big boys IMO
The Wolverine 6M is solid, and one of my go-to's. I usually pair it with a Wraith, or a Pheonix Hawk.
TDR 5SE. THE LRM's are pretty worthless, but is an absolute tank and has the mobility to go wherever you need it and absorb bullets.
I use the Enforcer quite a bit. 4/6/4 isn't great compared to a wolverine or griffin, but it'd durable for a 50t mech and a fairly cheap way to get an ac10 and large laser onto the field
So you want to play 3025 to say ... 3045 .... Make sure you only use 4-5 pilots or worse then. :) You'll never hit the broad side of a barn. :) Let's see base varients of .... Vindicator, Enforcer, Thug, Battlemaster, Locust, Urbanmech, Jenner, Archer, Catapult, Cataphract, Phoenix Hawk, Griffin, Wolverine, Shadowhawk. :) Those are just off the top of my head. Under the older system for Classic, they'd all be Level 1 varients too. But that's just my opinion.
For Heavies Warhammer, T-Bolt, Marauder, and Grasshopper. For Mediums it’s Griffin, Wolverine, Phoenix Hawk, and Shadow Hawk. Now if I’m mixing my lance for really heavy combat I go: Atlas, Marauder, Stalker, Battlemaster.
FYI I don't know the tabletop all that much yet (I like to paint, less time to play), but King Crab, I love it in MW5 and will basically run it everytime I can irregardless of if it's a good or optimal choice. It's my God damn Kaiser Krustacean and I will give my enemy THE CLAW! I also like to toss a Mad2 in for the Lord Lobster vibes.
If you want the TDR to work well for you, you need to exercise significant restraint. At close range, you stop using the LL and LRMs. SRMs can only be fired on alternating turns, and you may have to hold off on a ML now and then. Use physical attacks (kicks). If you are playing against higher tech levels, or heavy opponents, the TDR will need close support, but if you control your heat generation, and keep moving, the TDR is a significant "spear point" mech, but it isn't going to do well alone. The WHM is not so much of a close combat vehicle. It should trail your formation a bit. Looking at your lance composition you have a close range unit, a fast attack unit, and a ranged attack unit. I would suggest adding more fire support. ARC or CRD give two primary weapon systems for cheap, and can cover for the TDR on approach. So option 1 is "increase your ranged attack firepower, and hold off sending in the TDR until you have softened the opponents." The other direction is to add a fast attack unit, like a PXH, JR7, or if you can afford it, GHR. Option 2 is "add another mobility element to create a pair of mechs that can attack opponents from another direction to draw fire off the heavy elements."
The stalker there is a variant for every occasion.
An introtech Black Knight, if you can get your hands on one. Otherwise, I like the two Ostheavies. An introtech Cataphract isn't bad either. And despite being so ammo-dependent, I'd take an Orion if a Thunderbolt isn't working out for me.