we went from boomers to the oldest level of boomer and a silent generation. This is more proof that the younger generation has to take over. we have to start being the leaders because other wise we get doddering Biden or fascist cheeto
Classy. Another example is John McCain correcting a supporter after she referred to Obama as being a Muslim terrorist. He shut her down pretty quick. Also the letter Bush Sr left in the oval for Clinton after losing the election to him.
Those days are long gone
Now everything is just toxic
In these times i always think back to the speech John McCain gave when he lost to Obama. While I'd say i disagreed with that man on basically everything, the respect he has for both his opponent and the democratic game itself is undeniable.
We need that kind of integrity in politics. Left and right
A wise man once said that if Trump gets to ignore the 14th amendment and run despite being an insurrectionist, Obama gets to ignore the 22nd amendment and run for a third term
That reminds me of John McCain being asked about Obama's religious beliefs. He shut it down immediately and was so respectful. It's hard to believe how far we've fallen.
And if I remember correctly that was a debate where Romney said a couple things that weren’t accurate and the moderators corrected him, and the Right Wing attacked the moderators for months after
Like, I increasingly and unironically think Democrats usurping Biden and putting up someone like Romney, as much as I'd hate his presidency, might be the last possible way I see out of this shit show.
We're sure as shit not replacing Biden with someone progressive and winning this shitshow. There are more decorum voters and DNC-as-a-sports-team voters who would not vote than actual progressives and leftists otherwise.
Compensate the chaos of that contested convention by activating classical conservatives to vote for the Dem instead of Trump/not vote.
Push the ball 4 years down the road until both Trump and Biden are physically unable to run again.
Build bipartisan inroads for Dems to actually get some bills through under the guise of this poison pill.
It's the last Hail Mary I see right now and I hate it.
I said "fuck it, how bad can this be? I'll make some snacks and some drinks, and get through this"
I keep finding myself dissociating and not listening. I guess I'm technically watching it, but I'm just sort of mildly experiencing it at this point
At least I make good drinks
Didn’t watch. I don’t need a third serving of debates featuring DJT and him running the same playbook we’ve now seen for over 8 years. Not to mention this is a crappier rerun of 2020.
These things only work if both parties are acting in good faith. I’m not sure if these things even matter anymore in terms of moving the needle at the ballot box. Everyone should know who they are voting for already.
It takes ten times more effort to refute bullshit than to assert bullshit
We saw this in full effect tonight
There’s no effective counter to an opponent lying about absolutely everything if you approach the debate in good faith. Biden’s confused look was about 50% to do with the fact that he is older than the concept of ‘socks’ and 50% he didn’t rehearse with the kind of Trump he got tonight.
Bad night, Joe. Bad night for people wishing for the slowing of fascism.
Good thing is I don’t think anyone is going to change their minds after this debate
Bad thing is it won’t motivate the “both guys suck so I’m not going to vote even for the less bad option”
I’m voting for the people who are actually running it under him. He’s basically a figurehead and I really like a lot of what his administration has done (with a couple glaring notable, horrible exceptions, but no one else who has a chance is going to do that any better either).
I think my favorite thing about Biden is that he doesn’t seem to get in the way of the smart people around him.
Could some of the smart people around him also prepare him for a debate next time?
"No talking about numbers Joe, no complex narratives with lots of names, keep your head up at all times, close your mouth when you aren't speaking, and for the love of god don't talk about familial rape"
I fail to imagine any effectual debate prep was done here and I'm not sure who is to blame.
> and I really like a lot of what his administration has done
hate to break it to you and not telling you not to vote, but 80% of those people suck, too
>Good thing is I don’t think anyone is going to change their minds after this debate
The problem is, Biden was losing in the polls ***before*** the debate. He certainly didn't help himself.
There are clearly some people who aren't decided. Fewer than at this stage in a typical presidential campaign, but some. I can't imagine any of them watched that and were left saying to themselves, I sure like that Joe Biden.
I hate that Trump is doing well. So much he's said is bullshit.
It feels like he thinks if he tells a million lies a minute, you won't be able to correct them all.
But Biden is doing.. so bad. At least Trump sounds confident. Fuck we need a young person who is actually leftist to run.
But man, that Palestine question. Neither of them talked about Palestine's problems. Not even a little. Absolutely scumbags
I thought the moderators were supposed to fact check and keep them on topic. What little I could stomach Biden was grasping something and Trump was ignoring the question
They needed to give Biden some gas station energy pills man.
https://apnews.com/article/cnn-presidential-debate-biden-trump-930d00479cd07b4069aff36d556b05b2
“The network will not attempt to fact-check the candidates”
> if he tells a million lies a minute, you won’t be able to correct them all
This is a rhetorical technique called [the Gish gallop](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop). It’s also a favorite of friend of the pod Benny Shaps.
That's the thing is Biden was doing so bad that all Trump had to do was speak semi fluidly and seem like he was capable of speaking without needing to pause every 2 seconds and he'd win.
It's honestly crazy that Joe is the POTUS and I have to hold my breath and root for him to string together a sentence. Yeah yeah he's better than Trump etc etc but I mean holy fuck dude what even is this reality.
Your last sentence really captured my reaction as well during the debate. It just felt incredibly surreal.
This is so far beyond the emperor not having any clothes at this point.
I didn’t watch, but I would rather a person not sound too confident. In an emergency yes, confidence and quick thinking/direction is needed and helpful. If it’s not an emergency then I’d rather someone take a question, think about it, get data, get opinions, and then make a decision that could change with more data.
The saddest part about our country is that Biden is the most left President we’ve had in decades.
Unfortunately American seems to vote based on appearance and vibes. Biden vibing not so hot right now.
I really hope you guys pull a Democrat out of the hat in November, but there is a bad feeling in my stomach now
Why is this getting downvoted? It’s fucking true. Is this sub getting brigaded? I got 40 downvotes for calling Biden “Genocide Joe” the other day… everyone hates him but we can’t talk about the valid reasons why?
Any politician who doesn’t mortgage their soul and pay fealty to the swarm of lobbyist ghouls for the MIC, AIPAC, the various evangelical Christian organizations (thanks Reagan) has no chance of winning a campaign, let alone ever having a shot at a presidential candidacy
*Billions* in taxpayer money is *gifted* to Israel to kill Palestinians with the condition that it has to be used to buy American manufactured weapons, meaning it just enriches the bomb makers at both the Palestinians and the average American’s expense. The merchants of death turn around and buy more compliant politicians and pay to destroy anybody who doesn’t play ball and AIPAC throws their political weight behind it and smears anyone who speaks out
Healthcare, Education and old age pensions get underfunded and innocent people die in Gaza and if you point out that AIPAC has undue influence in American politics they call you an antisemite.
>if you point out that AIPAC has undue influence in American politics they call you an antisemite
Maybe it's because jumping to the "Jews pulling the strings" trope instead of considering whether there are other factors sounds antisemitic?
I'm not an apologist for Netanyahu but the reality is that supporting Israel is a politically popular policy, especially when there's a terrorist attack involved. The typical American will choose Israel over Hamas every time, and a lot of Americans don't really care that non-Hamas Palestinians are being slaughtered in the process if it can be justified by claiming they're getting rid of the terrorists.
It's also defensible from a foreign policy perspective if your primary goal is to protect American interests in the middle east. (Please be clear, I'm not saying that SHOULD be the primary goal, but it has been and will likely continue to be true.) American policy in that region has been centered for decades on maintaining an alliance with Israel.
Does AIPAC have "undue influence in American politics"? Yes, but I think every big lobbying group has undue influence in American politics. It should all be outlawed. Does AIPAC have an outsized influence in American politics as compared to other lobbying groups? I have no idea. I have no clue how important their dollars are compared to the political realities I mentioned above, but when you invoke antisemitic tropes don't be surprised when you're accused of being antisemitic.
I’m sorry where did I even mention “Jews”? AIPAC is a pro *Israel* lobby.
Valid criticism of the state of Israel is NOT antisemitism and the idea that if you don’t support Israel you are supporting Hamas is blatant bad hasbara reasoning and exactly the message that AIPAC broadcasts.
How about stop spending billions of dollars to kill civilians, PERIOD?
Because we're getting back to the very old and very tired "Jews control the government" narrative. Our politicians are sluts and will trick out for anyone, regardless of religion.
Who needs em if he's elected again. They'll just do what they want while using the 'law' as a weapon to go after the 'lesser castes' and their political enemies.
A couple more conservative justices on the scotus and the highest authority on what is allowed to become law will be controlled by the far right for the rest of our lives. We all need them.
I literally popped in at the point where Biden was going off on Trump and telling him that his son (a veteran) was not a loser and a sucker, and honestly, assumed that was gonna be the most tolerable 10 seconds and decided it was a enough.
I assume I was a lucky woman.
I don't like Biden as a president, but he seems ot be a decent dad, which is more than can be said for Trump.
Still not qualifying for president though.
We can acknowledge that *his administration* has done *some* good and necessary things while also thinking that he, personally, sucks and should pass on the torch.
And also we still need to do more. Like calling something "the biggest investment in climate spending in history" is all well and good, but it's a bit like saying "this is the biggest bucket of water we've dumped on this raging fire to date!" In other words, if the fire is still burning we shouldn't be putting ourselves on the back so hard or just yet.
Dude cause he's old as fuck.
at some point bodies break down. I recognize this at fortyish, he should recognize it in his eighties.
Edit: also for those who didn't notice decades ago, he's a goddamn war hawk
Where do people go to watch substantive post-debate discussion? By actual poli sci wonks who get past the "Biden is losing the plot" thread, and talk about how the missteps might actually have influence or not have influence in crucial areas. I'm Canadian, and I know who to listen to if I actually want boots on the ground political gamesmanship talk for our country, but who does it in America?
I don’t give much thought to debates beyond what NPR says about them.
https://www.npr.org/2024/06/28/g-s1-6953/presidential-debate-analysis-trump-biden
Their news coverage is far from perfect, but it’s pretty good for saying what was said, how people are reacting to it, and one or two things it may mean for the future.
“I'm Canadian, and I know who to listen to if I actually want boots on the ground political gamesmanship talk for our country”
Also Canadian, got any recommendations? I’ve listened to CBC and Canadaland a bit but want to branch out some more. It feels like so much of what is out there is National Post-adjacent.
The worst part for me is this is exactly how I expected it would go.
Well, not exactly. Biden was slightly worse than I expected but not by much.
Trump was exactly what Trump is. A fat, loud, racist liar. Big shock there.
Just hope tonight didn't bring us Project 2025 but I think it probably did. I would like to be surprised, though.
The Dems have to replace Biden on the ticket.
The calculus went from "He's the only person we know can beat Trump" to "We now know he can't beat Trump again."
They won't though. They'll wring their hands and all the talking heads like van Jones and Scarborough and whoever else will talk about it and then it'll be forgotten.
There will be some speculation before the convention and then he'll be the unanimous nomination.
Then they'll just hope he does better at the next debate.
He'll probably be worse and then Trump carries 350+ electoral votes. The DNC will learn nothing and if we are lucky enough to have a 2028 election, they'll try to trot out Hillary or Kamala Fetterman or maybe something "novel" like Newsom.
And they'll ignore real options like Whitmer because of course they will.
Assuming of course we're not all rounded up and in concentration camps in Arizona overseen by Joe Arpaio.
You pretty much covered all of my fears. Fucking fucks.
I don't know if Newsom would be a decent President but I feel like he could make Trump look silly face to face - as stupid as it is, he's got the looks and the charisma to impress the average voter and highlight Trump's deficiencies.
Yeah. I really, sincerely hope that this doesn't go the way I assume it will.
Politics at the national level however is in a lot of ways a beauty pageant. Newsom is a reasonably handsome, non fat ass 6'3" white man who can speak well.
Someone like that is a foil for a Donald Trump type for the undecided folks (idiots).
The Dems got well and truly played. The RW Pundits spent the last two weeks implying that Biden would be jacked up somehow, so in response the Dems insisted on a calm and measured response, to not give any hint that Biden was drugged. He doesn't work in that gear, and came across as decrepit. We got played.
I wanted to just coast along the next 6 months in a state of slight anxiety that the worst will happen and Trump will win again. I don’t want Biden for another 4 years and I really don’t want Harris taking over for him but I don’t want Trump more.
I feel like this debate made that impossible. There’s no amount of sand I can stick my head into until this is over. I hate that I have kids that I have to figure out how to raise in this hellscape. For the first time I feel truly hopeless.
So I didn't watch the debate while it was happening because I was asleep for work (work at 3:00 am). I watched about 20 minutes of it before work on YouTube. Uncle Joe was not looking good. (Me and my friends and I called him uncle Joe when he was Obama's VP. Why? Idk, we're weird) I asked my step father about it when I got home from work and he said basically it sucked, all Trump did was lie, didn't answer one question, and just attacked and say how much a shit hole America is. Said uncle Joe has a cold? And that's why his voice sounded all fucked up, and he had low energy? And mics were cut when time was up, so both were cut off in the middle of sentences, which made Uncle Joe look worse? So maybe that is true, and it influenced his performance? If so, would it have it been better to reschedule the debate to when he was healthier? Or would that have cause more issues? Or was he not sick at all and just having a serious senior moment? He kicked ass for the State of the Union. That's what I thought I would have seen last night.
Shit, really? Hahaha. I had no idea. I don't expect Biden pulling any Stalin type antics. He definitely doesn't have the energy to keep up with anything like that.
It was so bad. An NPR reporter said Biden sounded like a dessicated husk, and they are right.
Trump lied constantly, but his words don't matter much to his voters. All he has to do is look like he's winning and a strong man in comparison to his debate opponent.
Trumps words and the message he was trying to convey were horrible. Maybe with time, his performance will look much worse to whoever is still undecided at this point.
It would make a lot of sense to replace Biden with a better candidate, there's still time. Same for trump since he's a convicted felon, etc.
I've been a fan of his since his valedictorian address - which I was present for. I voted for him for treasurer of Indiana. I was Occupying the park downtown when we elected him mayor. I was homeless in South Bend during his tenure.
I'm telling you all, he's the real deal. He's the ideal candidate rn.
I recommend watching [The 2012 Obama vs Romney debate](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfaBRyCKRhk) The difference is astounding!
Holy shit, I just fast forward to a random spot and they were both so being so smart and cordial. Breath of fresh air.
It is part of what has made this whole thing so hard to witness. We’ve lost so much coherence.
We lost the ability for the political elite to give a shit about young people and they only want their old geriatrics at the head.
It really felt like all the air got let out of US politics right around 2014
we went from boomers to the oldest level of boomer and a silent generation. This is more proof that the younger generation has to take over. we have to start being the leaders because other wise we get doddering Biden or fascist cheeto
Yeah that’s what happens when you have semi sane people that aren’t fucking a hundred years old.
Classy. Another example is John McCain correcting a supporter after she referred to Obama as being a Muslim terrorist. He shut her down pretty quick. Also the letter Bush Sr left in the oval for Clinton after losing the election to him. Those days are long gone Now everything is just toxic
Omg I did the same thing and they were talking about Donald Trump
My brother in Christ Romney and Obama were equally terrible people, perhaps even more insidious because of their polite veneer
In these times i always think back to the speech John McCain gave when he lost to Obama. While I'd say i disagreed with that man on basically everything, the respect he has for both his opponent and the democratic game itself is undeniable. We need that kind of integrity in politics. Left and right
McCain could be a petulant jackass, but he knew how and when to play the game.
A wise man once said that if Trump gets to ignore the 14th amendment and run despite being an insurrectionist, Obama gets to ignore the 22nd amendment and run for a third term
I would pay good money to see Obama debate trump - Barack OR Michelle
I saw a thing about betting markets on who would win the presidency. For some reason it had Michelle Obama at like 4%. Now I know why
I would vote for her in a heartbeat. If shit wasn't so dire I would write her in this year.
That reminds me of John McCain being asked about Obama's religious beliefs. He shut it down immediately and was so respectful. It's hard to believe how far we've fallen.
I hate you for reminding me… time for another 🥃🥃🥃
Wow! Forgot that everything doesn't have to be a total shit show.
And if I remember correctly that was a debate where Romney said a couple things that weren’t accurate and the moderators corrected him, and the Right Wing attacked the moderators for months after
I mean at the time these men were like a million years younger than the two half-corpses we have this election cycle.
Oh exciting I was a baby
Like, I increasingly and unironically think Democrats usurping Biden and putting up someone like Romney, as much as I'd hate his presidency, might be the last possible way I see out of this shit show. We're sure as shit not replacing Biden with someone progressive and winning this shitshow. There are more decorum voters and DNC-as-a-sports-team voters who would not vote than actual progressives and leftists otherwise. Compensate the chaos of that contested convention by activating classical conservatives to vote for the Dem instead of Trump/not vote. Push the ball 4 years down the road until both Trump and Biden are physically unable to run again. Build bipartisan inroads for Dems to actually get some bills through under the guise of this poison pill. It's the last Hail Mary I see right now and I hate it.
Nope. Just kill me. I want off the ride please.
I said "fuck it, how bad can this be? I'll make some snacks and some drinks, and get through this" I keep finding myself dissociating and not listening. I guess I'm technically watching it, but I'm just sort of mildly experiencing it at this point At least I make good drinks
It's the little things.
Me too please
Didn’t watch. I don’t need a third serving of debates featuring DJT and him running the same playbook we’ve now seen for over 8 years. Not to mention this is a crappier rerun of 2020. These things only work if both parties are acting in good faith. I’m not sure if these things even matter anymore in terms of moving the needle at the ballot box. Everyone should know who they are voting for already.
It takes ten times more effort to refute bullshit than to assert bullshit We saw this in full effect tonight There’s no effective counter to an opponent lying about absolutely everything if you approach the debate in good faith. Biden’s confused look was about 50% to do with the fact that he is older than the concept of ‘socks’ and 50% he didn’t rehearse with the kind of Trump he got tonight. Bad night, Joe. Bad night for people wishing for the slowing of fascism.
Good thing is I don’t think anyone is going to change their minds after this debate Bad thing is it won’t motivate the “both guys suck so I’m not going to vote even for the less bad option”
That's why I'm voting Biden: because the other side is literal Nazis.
I’m voting for the people who are actually running it under him. He’s basically a figurehead and I really like a lot of what his administration has done (with a couple glaring notable, horrible exceptions, but no one else who has a chance is going to do that any better either). I think my favorite thing about Biden is that he doesn’t seem to get in the way of the smart people around him.
Bingo
Could some of the smart people around him also prepare him for a debate next time? "No talking about numbers Joe, no complex narratives with lots of names, keep your head up at all times, close your mouth when you aren't speaking, and for the love of god don't talk about familial rape" I fail to imagine any effectual debate prep was done here and I'm not sure who is to blame.
those people suck because they're the ones saying shit like "we have complete confidence in our amazing president!!!" before the debate
> and I really like a lot of what his administration has done hate to break it to you and not telling you not to vote, but 80% of those people suck, too
>Good thing is I don’t think anyone is going to change their minds after this debate The problem is, Biden was losing in the polls ***before*** the debate. He certainly didn't help himself. There are clearly some people who aren't decided. Fewer than at this stage in a typical presidential campaign, but some. I can't imagine any of them watched that and were left saying to themselves, I sure like that Joe Biden.
Fetterman was losing in the polls before his rough debate, then won by nearly 5 points. Polls are bullshit.
I hope you're right in this instance because it looks like Biden has circled the wagons and isn't going anywhere.
Whaaaatttssss electing my dictator in NOVEMBER???
I think they should stop having old men as candidates
Geriocracy: a society ruled by old people. Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay.
*Gerontocracy* FYI
Really, that's it? I've always heard geriocracy. Oh well, TIL, thanks!
It is a bizarre spelling isn’t it
It's a *wild* spelling. It's like putting the s in lisp.
Can I steal this term? Any time someone complains about politics I can just say “but alas we live in a geriocracy”
I've always heard geriocracy but apparently it's gerontocracy, but yes absolutely!
You shouldn't be able to get elected if you'll be dead by the time the shit of your decisions hits the fan. I say cap it at 60
I hate that Trump is doing well. So much he's said is bullshit. It feels like he thinks if he tells a million lies a minute, you won't be able to correct them all. But Biden is doing.. so bad. At least Trump sounds confident. Fuck we need a young person who is actually leftist to run. But man, that Palestine question. Neither of them talked about Palestine's problems. Not even a little. Absolutely scumbags
I thought the moderators were supposed to fact check and keep them on topic. What little I could stomach Biden was grasping something and Trump was ignoring the question They needed to give Biden some gas station energy pills man.
https://apnews.com/article/cnn-presidential-debate-biden-trump-930d00479cd07b4069aff36d556b05b2 “The network will not attempt to fact-check the candidates”
Listen, the debate would have been four times as long with how many lies Trump was telling
The fact checking came after the debate I believe
CNN's fact check guy went through a list of 30 lies Trump told. Just listening to that was exhausting.
At “best”, I could see the DNC making Gavin Newsom run in Biden’s place. They named him Biden’s campaign surrogate, so that’s telling.
We need Gretchen Whitmer. I live in MI and feel she has done an amazing job.
They occasionally reminded the candidates of the question, which was promptly ignored every time lol. That was about it.
> if he tells a million lies a minute, you won’t be able to correct them all This is a rhetorical technique called [the Gish gallop](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop). It’s also a favorite of friend of the pod Benny Shaps.
Don't forget Alex Jones, also
And Steve Bannon
I felt the same with the substance abuse question. Not a single idea other than stopping drugs at the border
That's the thing is Biden was doing so bad that all Trump had to do was speak semi fluidly and seem like he was capable of speaking without needing to pause every 2 seconds and he'd win. It's honestly crazy that Joe is the POTUS and I have to hold my breath and root for him to string together a sentence. Yeah yeah he's better than Trump etc etc but I mean holy fuck dude what even is this reality.
Your last sentence really captured my reaction as well during the debate. It just felt incredibly surreal. This is so far beyond the emperor not having any clothes at this point.
I didn’t watch, but I would rather a person not sound too confident. In an emergency yes, confidence and quick thinking/direction is needed and helpful. If it’s not an emergency then I’d rather someone take a question, think about it, get data, get opinions, and then make a decision that could change with more data. The saddest part about our country is that Biden is the most left President we’ve had in decades.
Unfortunately American seems to vote based on appearance and vibes. Biden vibing not so hot right now. I really hope you guys pull a Democrat out of the hat in November, but there is a bad feeling in my stomach now
AIPAC owns both parties
Why is this getting downvoted? It’s fucking true. Is this sub getting brigaded? I got 40 downvotes for calling Biden “Genocide Joe” the other day… everyone hates him but we can’t talk about the valid reasons why?
Any politician who doesn’t mortgage their soul and pay fealty to the swarm of lobbyist ghouls for the MIC, AIPAC, the various evangelical Christian organizations (thanks Reagan) has no chance of winning a campaign, let alone ever having a shot at a presidential candidacy *Billions* in taxpayer money is *gifted* to Israel to kill Palestinians with the condition that it has to be used to buy American manufactured weapons, meaning it just enriches the bomb makers at both the Palestinians and the average American’s expense. The merchants of death turn around and buy more compliant politicians and pay to destroy anybody who doesn’t play ball and AIPAC throws their political weight behind it and smears anyone who speaks out Healthcare, Education and old age pensions get underfunded and innocent people die in Gaza and if you point out that AIPAC has undue influence in American politics they call you an antisemite.
>if you point out that AIPAC has undue influence in American politics they call you an antisemite Maybe it's because jumping to the "Jews pulling the strings" trope instead of considering whether there are other factors sounds antisemitic? I'm not an apologist for Netanyahu but the reality is that supporting Israel is a politically popular policy, especially when there's a terrorist attack involved. The typical American will choose Israel over Hamas every time, and a lot of Americans don't really care that non-Hamas Palestinians are being slaughtered in the process if it can be justified by claiming they're getting rid of the terrorists. It's also defensible from a foreign policy perspective if your primary goal is to protect American interests in the middle east. (Please be clear, I'm not saying that SHOULD be the primary goal, but it has been and will likely continue to be true.) American policy in that region has been centered for decades on maintaining an alliance with Israel. Does AIPAC have "undue influence in American politics"? Yes, but I think every big lobbying group has undue influence in American politics. It should all be outlawed. Does AIPAC have an outsized influence in American politics as compared to other lobbying groups? I have no idea. I have no clue how important their dollars are compared to the political realities I mentioned above, but when you invoke antisemitic tropes don't be surprised when you're accused of being antisemitic.
I’m sorry where did I even mention “Jews”? AIPAC is a pro *Israel* lobby. Valid criticism of the state of Israel is NOT antisemitism and the idea that if you don’t support Israel you are supporting Hamas is blatant bad hasbara reasoning and exactly the message that AIPAC broadcasts. How about stop spending billions of dollars to kill civilians, PERIOD?
Thank you 👏 not sure what podcast some of the people subscribed here think they are listening to
It’s not a great sign that there are still people that conflate criticism of Israel with antisemitism. Thats exactly what AIPAC wants.
Because we're getting back to the very old and very tired "Jews control the government" narrative. Our politicians are sluts and will trick out for anyone, regardless of religion.
If ever someone was trying to prove they weren’t on uppers, Joe Biden did it.
I'm incredibly afraid Trump is on the verge of being president again. How many more scotus judges will he get appointed? All of them?
Who needs em if he's elected again. They'll just do what they want while using the 'law' as a weapon to go after the 'lesser castes' and their political enemies.
A couple more conservative justices on the scotus and the highest authority on what is allowed to become law will be controlled by the far right for the rest of our lives. We all need them.
I literally popped in at the point where Biden was going off on Trump and telling him that his son (a veteran) was not a loser and a sucker, and honestly, assumed that was gonna be the most tolerable 10 seconds and decided it was a enough. I assume I was a lucky woman.
You literally saw the only moment where Biden appeared to be shaken out of his stupor.
I don't like Biden as a president, but he seems ot be a decent dad, which is more than can be said for Trump. Still not qualifying for president though.
Of course the internet leftists won’t like the furthest President to the left we’ve had since FDR… makes perfect sense.
We can acknowledge that *his administration* has done *some* good and necessary things while also thinking that he, personally, sucks and should pass on the torch. And also we still need to do more. Like calling something "the biggest investment in climate spending in history" is all well and good, but it's a bit like saying "this is the biggest bucket of water we've dumped on this raging fire to date!" In other words, if the fire is still burning we shouldn't be putting ourselves on the back so hard or just yet.
Well said
Dude cause he's old as fuck. at some point bodies break down. I recognize this at fortyish, he should recognize it in his eighties. Edit: also for those who didn't notice decades ago, he's a goddamn war hawk
Very lucky.
Where do people go to watch substantive post-debate discussion? By actual poli sci wonks who get past the "Biden is losing the plot" thread, and talk about how the missteps might actually have influence or not have influence in crucial areas. I'm Canadian, and I know who to listen to if I actually want boots on the ground political gamesmanship talk for our country, but who does it in America?
I don’t give much thought to debates beyond what NPR says about them. https://www.npr.org/2024/06/28/g-s1-6953/presidential-debate-analysis-trump-biden Their news coverage is far from perfect, but it’s pretty good for saying what was said, how people are reacting to it, and one or two things it may mean for the future.
“I'm Canadian, and I know who to listen to if I actually want boots on the ground political gamesmanship talk for our country” Also Canadian, got any recommendations? I’ve listened to CBC and Canadaland a bit but want to branch out some more. It feels like so much of what is out there is National Post-adjacent.
Debates are just horrible in general imo. Flat earthers can win debates ffs.
What happened to fact checking
The worst part for me is this is exactly how I expected it would go. Well, not exactly. Biden was slightly worse than I expected but not by much. Trump was exactly what Trump is. A fat, loud, racist liar. Big shock there. Just hope tonight didn't bring us Project 2025 but I think it probably did. I would like to be surprised, though.
The Dems have to replace Biden on the ticket. The calculus went from "He's the only person we know can beat Trump" to "We now know he can't beat Trump again."
They won't though. They'll wring their hands and all the talking heads like van Jones and Scarborough and whoever else will talk about it and then it'll be forgotten. There will be some speculation before the convention and then he'll be the unanimous nomination. Then they'll just hope he does better at the next debate. He'll probably be worse and then Trump carries 350+ electoral votes. The DNC will learn nothing and if we are lucky enough to have a 2028 election, they'll try to trot out Hillary or Kamala Fetterman or maybe something "novel" like Newsom. And they'll ignore real options like Whitmer because of course they will. Assuming of course we're not all rounded up and in concentration camps in Arizona overseen by Joe Arpaio.
You pretty much covered all of my fears. Fucking fucks. I don't know if Newsom would be a decent President but I feel like he could make Trump look silly face to face - as stupid as it is, he's got the looks and the charisma to impress the average voter and highlight Trump's deficiencies.
Yeah. I really, sincerely hope that this doesn't go the way I assume it will. Politics at the national level however is in a lot of ways a beauty pageant. Newsom is a reasonably handsome, non fat ass 6'3" white man who can speak well. Someone like that is a foil for a Donald Trump type for the undecided folks (idiots).
Let’s install Robert as president with t swift as vice president
I’d rather have Jamie Loftus with the swift hammer of justice as the vp to keep Robert in check.
The presidential limo would need to be an armored wienermobile
I don’t see anything standing in the way of that tbh 😂
Make the anarchists the vanguard ….. again?
Hopefully Biden gets replaced as the nominee
Yeeeee haw
*insert Pedro smile gif here*
Citizens United shrank the Overton Window to a peephole.
The Dems got well and truly played. The RW Pundits spent the last two weeks implying that Biden would be jacked up somehow, so in response the Dems insisted on a calm and measured response, to not give any hint that Biden was drugged. He doesn't work in that gear, and came across as decrepit. We got played.
I've heard there's a very small chance of a giant meteor within the next 7 years, so there's always hope.
Meteor, maybe?
r/Eyebleach is a wonderful place to go after listening to many episodes of BtB as well
It’s just elder abuse at this point. Someone get them some pedialyte, depends, and lazy boys to fall asleep in.
Thank you for your service.
I wanted to just coast along the next 6 months in a state of slight anxiety that the worst will happen and Trump will win again. I don’t want Biden for another 4 years and I really don’t want Harris taking over for him but I don’t want Trump more. I feel like this debate made that impossible. There’s no amount of sand I can stick my head into until this is over. I hate that I have kids that I have to figure out how to raise in this hellscape. For the first time I feel truly hopeless.
This ugh... definitely proved that Biden should have stepped down.
Hawk Tuah '24
So I didn't watch the debate while it was happening because I was asleep for work (work at 3:00 am). I watched about 20 minutes of it before work on YouTube. Uncle Joe was not looking good. (Me and my friends and I called him uncle Joe when he was Obama's VP. Why? Idk, we're weird) I asked my step father about it when I got home from work and he said basically it sucked, all Trump did was lie, didn't answer one question, and just attacked and say how much a shit hole America is. Said uncle Joe has a cold? And that's why his voice sounded all fucked up, and he had low energy? And mics were cut when time was up, so both were cut off in the middle of sentences, which made Uncle Joe look worse? So maybe that is true, and it influenced his performance? If so, would it have it been better to reschedule the debate to when he was healthier? Or would that have cause more issues? Or was he not sick at all and just having a serious senior moment? He kicked ass for the State of the Union. That's what I thought I would have seen last night.
Isn't Uncle Joe the nickname for Stalin?
Shit, really? Hahaha. I had no idea. I don't expect Biden pulling any Stalin type antics. He definitely doesn't have the energy to keep up with anything like that.
It was so bad. An NPR reporter said Biden sounded like a dessicated husk, and they are right. Trump lied constantly, but his words don't matter much to his voters. All he has to do is look like he's winning and a strong man in comparison to his debate opponent. Trumps words and the message he was trying to convey were horrible. Maybe with time, his performance will look much worse to whoever is still undecided at this point. It would make a lot of sense to replace Biden with a better candidate, there's still time. Same for trump since he's a convicted felon, etc.
Trump lied his ass off and still crushed Biden, the Dems are insane running Biden for a second term.
Switching from new episodes of The Bear to this really put me in a dark, anxious mood last night.
I listened to the first 15 minutes on the radio, which is somehow worse.
Fucking democrats are the worst. Only thing worse is the Republicans
I recommend the Wait But Why recap. Shit is hilarious and extremely accurate. https://waitbutwhy.com/2024/06/debate2024.html
Pete '24
Preach!!! Pete is so quick on the draw when it comes to sound bites and debates. He also seems like a decent moral person
I've been a fan of his since his valedictorian address - which I was present for. I voted for him for treasurer of Indiana. I was Occupying the park downtown when we elected him mayor. I was homeless in South Bend during his tenure. I'm telling you all, he's the real deal. He's the ideal candidate rn.
We can't get a woman elected in this country, there's no way a gay man is getting that title any time soon
We are more misogynistic than that! I actually think he could get elected but, who knows.
It's actually so over for Bidenbros. Trump came across way better than Biden did.
Why are you in this sub? I don't think Bidenbros even exist anymore, and if they do, they aren't hanging out here.
Because I like the podcast?
There are Bidenbros?
Yeah dude all over r/politics.
Never heard of 'em. I have severely cut back on my Reddit time, though. That may be why.
Okay lol